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Hey, everybody, Pastor Steven Anderson here from Faith Ward Baptist Church in Tempe, Arizona, for another edition of Steven Anderson Uncensored Live Q&A over the phones. The phone number to call is 480-465-1203. That's 480-465-1203. Let's take the first call. Yes, Pastor Anderson here. How you doing? Hi, Pastor. This is Alex here in Atlanta. I just had a couple of short questions, very important for me. I really appreciate if you could answer them. Sure. First one, are monthly pension allocations for Pastor Biblical or not? I'm sorry, say again, I'm having trouble understanding you. One more time. Are monthly pension allocations for Pastor Biblical or not? That's something about my church, so I'm trying to figure out. Monthly pensions? Like a retirement account? Yeah, like pension deposits every month are biblical or not? Well, I mean, if that's what your church does, I don't think it's really your job to decide how the church staff gets paid. That might be something to just kind of stay out of just as a layman. But I personally don't believe in it. I wouldn't contribute to a pension plan. I don't have a retirement fund or retirement account. I don't want to lay up treasures for myself upon the earth. My retirement plan is A, I have 10 children. B, I'm investing in people, friends, relatives, family. And C, I'm planning on working until I die and just relying on the Lord. So my safety net are the people in whose lives I've invested, including my children. So I'm not a fan of 401k or retirement plans, but at the same time, I don't think that you should stand in judgment of the staff of your church if that's the way their payment plan works. Okay. Makes sense. And the second question I was interested to ask about the transparency and accountability in church. Where is that silver lining where I understand and I know my opinion is that the pastor is the leader, but where is that silver lining of where the pastor, in good will, he is transparent and accountable at the same time he is the leader of the church, or it's just the church has no say at all, not the business of the church at all, or a say of how the church goes. Well, the Bible says that we should provide for things honest in the sight of God and in the sight of men. So that would be where transparency would come into play, that we want to have a good testimony. Even if everything that we're doing is honest, it should also look honest from the outside. So if questionable things are going on, then obviously it should be examined from the outside. But is there any reason for you to think that questionable things are going on, or is the pastor just like a one-man show, or does he have any staff or anything that's working with him on that? Well, it's just like a three-man show, and the church is basically kept in darkness. And my question is, how can anybody just raise their voice without being criticized, marginalized, you know, ridiculous, and just have the voice heard? Are you, have you been a member of the church a long time? Well, me personally, over a year. But how big is the church? It's just a hundred people. And what makes you think that, what makes you think that everything's not on the up and up? Well, I just, the experience, you know, a member, a good friend of mine, he was just, he left the church just because the pastor just gave him a note that, hey, you don't agree with us, so we just, you know, it's not based on heresy or based on anything. The guy was trying to protest and say, hey, actually he asked for forgiveness if he hurt them in any way, but they still went ahead and said, hey, if you don't agree with what our vision is for this church, then we ask you to leave. No heresy involved, nothing, just a different opinion. Well, you know, obviously I don't know the situation, I don't know the whole story, but from what it sounds like, you've only been there a year and, you know, it sounds like you want to just come in and protest everything and turn the place upside down and everything. You know, it doesn't sound like, it sounds like you're a little bit off base here. You know, I don't see, you know, why you should just show up and just start having these kind of vague accusations and wanting to change things. You know, if you don't like the church, then go somewhere else. It doesn't sound like you're a long-time member, that you really know the inner workings of the church or anything. Obviously, I do believe that churches should be transparent, but, you know, picking them apart for having a retirement plan, even though I personally don't agree with the retirement plan, that just seems like a petty thing where you're nitpicking, like you don't want the pastor to get recompensed for his work when, you know, the Bible says that the elders that rule well should be counted worthy of double honor, especially they who labor in the word and doctrine. Thou shalt not muzzle the ox when he treadeth out the corn. So I'm having trouble sympathizing with your issue here. But like I said, maybe I'm wrong because I don't know the whole story. But anyway, I'm going to let you go. But, you know, I hope that those thoughts help you a little bit. But God bless you. Have a good one. All right. Thank you. All right. Again, the number is 480-465-1203. Yes, Pastor Anderson here. How you doing? What would you do if your kids were caught listening to pop music like David Bowie or Beatles or Bob Dylan or Michael Jackson? Well, if I caught them listening, I would punish them and take it away from them. And why is that? I mean, if they have a CD player or or a music player, they listen to their own or or at the airplane. Okay, that was kind of a weird call, but I answered his question, so I'm not sure what else he wants. Yes, Pastor Anderson here. How you doing? Hi, great. How are you doing, Pastor? Good. Great. So lately I've been thinking a lot about accountability in the context of being a Christian. And this really this really hit home for me when I started going out soul winning and came to see the presence of a silent partner, for example, as a form of accountability. And of course, going regularly to church. And as we recently saw in Jacksonville, leading a church further highlights important questions around issues of accountability. So in light of all this, I was wondering if you might provide us with a biblical definition of accountability, plus an example or two from Scripture, and how we might apply those lessons to us as everyday believers in the 21st century? Well, accountability, it's kind of a broad topic. I'm trying to understand exactly what you mean. Do you let me let me let me let me say a few things, and you can tell me if I'm on the right track of what you're talking about. Like, for example, when I think of accountability, like, for example, I have a policy that, you know, I wouldn't bring a woman into my office for some kind of a counseling session. I wouldn't meet with women in private or ride in a car with just a woman that's not my wife or something, because even if everything were on the up and up, it's the appearance of evil. And so we should always have accountability in the sense that we don't put ourselves in comp in a compromising situation where there's no accountability. So is that what you mean when you talk about, like, going soloing with a partner? Somebody's there to make sure that everything is legit or on the up and up? Is that what you mean by that? Yeah, and I also guess just in terms of, you know, how we should be, you know, setting an example, you know, to others and, you know, leading as Christians, for example, and how we might ensure that we are, you know, following the right path and keeping each other in check, you know, and to also reprimand each other lovingly, you know, if we have heard about a lot and, you know, kind of be on the same page. Well, I guess the verse that comes to mind is confess your faults one to another and pray one for another that you may be healed. So, you know, the Bible talks about confessing our faults to one another, asking people to pray for us. But I think that accountability could go a little bit overboard, too, where, you know, where nobody has any privacy, because that's kind of cult-like. Where it's like we're all communal and, you know, we're all going to keep tabs on each other and make sure nobody's sinning or something. You know, that sounds kind of creepy and scary. So I think that that could definitely go overboard. So I think that any kind of accountability should be a voluntary thing where we confess our faults one to another or maybe ask someone to hold us accountable. And maybe is this what you're talking about? Like, for example, if I'm setting out on a certain goal that maybe I could ask someone, hey, check in with me and make sure that I actually read my Bible or that I actually lost weight or whatever I was trying to do. Is that the kind of thing you mean? Yeah, yeah, sure. Not to be, you know, kind of crazily cultish or dogmatic about it, but just that I didn't know if there was any kind of biblical precedent for, you know, that kind of thing. Yeah, I mean, I think that's the verse that comes to mind, like confessing your faults one to another. So that would be like a voluntary thing where I could ask someone to hold me accountable. But I think like an involuntary accountability could become creepy and cold like. So good question. Thank you. All right. Thank you. All right. Yes, Pastor Anderson here. How you doing? Just fine. I've got a question for you. And Genesis chapter 32, where Jacob's name is changed to Israel. And it said that his name is no longer going to be called Jacob. But in later I've been reading through Isaiah and Jeremiah and such as in Isaiah chapter 48 in verse number 12, it says, Harken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called. And I see that over and over again. And I'm wondering why, like when God changed Abraham's name to Abraham, you never see Abraham again or Saul to Paul, never see Saul again. Why do we see Jacob throughout the Bible after? Well, here are a couple thoughts. First of all, when he says thou shalt be called no more Jacob, I would compare that language to other places where the grammar is the same in the Bible, like where it says drink no longer water. He's not telling him, you know, you're never going to drink water again, but he's just telling him you're not going to only drink water. So I think here when he says you're no more going to be called Jacob, but you're going to be called Israel, I think he's saying your name's not only going to be Jacob, but it's also going to be Israel now. And as far as the apostle Paul, the apostle Paul's name was not changed to Paul. There's no record of God changing Saul's name to Paul. But rather, when Paul went on his missionary journeys, he used his Roman name because Saul is a very Jewish name. So he basically just translated that into its Roman counterpart. So it'd be sort of like if I started a big mission strip into Latin America and I start calling myself a stable. OK, but yeah, you're right with the example with with Abram being switched to Abraham. He's never called Abram again. I think that the reason why the word Jacob continues to be used is because God's paramount concern is clarity and understanding. So I think it's just easier to understand some of the verses when it mentions him as Jacob, simply because when we think of Israel, we don't tend to think of the person. We tend to think of the nation. So I think sometimes Jacob is used to just to really drive in, hey, we're talking about the person. We're not talking about the nation. Since there was no nation called Abraham, there's not really any confusion like that. Now, could it also be possible that Israel are the saved Jews, whereas Jacob, they're just in the lineage, but they are not saved? No, because there are scriptures that refer to unbelieving Israel as Israel, Israel after the flesh and so forth. So I don't think that's the distinction at all. I don't think so. But hey, thank you for the call. Good question. God bless you. God bless you, too. Bye bye. Yes, Pastor Anderson here. How are you doing? Good evening, Pastor Anderson, I was calling because I have a question about Proverbs chapter 26 verses four through five. Okay, let me get there. Proverbs 26 verses four and five. Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him. Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit. I think that what the Bible's showing us here is that when you're dealing with a fool, you can't win because if you don't answer him, then he thinks that he won the argument and he thinks he's right and he's wise in his own conceit. And then if you do answer a fool according to his folly, then a lot of times you're just sucked into a stupid argument and you're going back and forth with a bozo and it kind of makes you start looking like a bozo. So I would say number one with the fool, you can't win. And number two, you have to basically weigh the pros and cons of whether you should answer him or not, because there are some pros and cons to answering versus not answering, and you have to take those into account. Knowledge. I was reading that because I like to read Proverbs every day and I always come across this one and I'm like, well, it sounds the same. Should I answer it or not answer it? Like, because it's saying don't answer and then it's saying answer. I'm like, what do you want? Yeah, it's one of those things where, you know, whether you do or you don't, you know, it's going to be bad. All right. Good question. You have to have a good one. Bye bye. All right. 480-465-1203. Yes, Pastor Anderson here. How you doing? Good, Pastor. I just want to thank you for all you do. And I truly believe you're going to be one of the 420 elders. But... Hey, that's been a life goal of mine. I don't think I'm going to, but it's definitely a goal. Yeah, man. Revelation 22, verse 14. It says, blessed are they that do his commandments that they may have right to the tree of life and may enter in through the gates into the city. Now, I know salvation is by faith and faith alone, but this verse just kind of threw me off, so I would appreciate, like, some clarification on this. Sure. Yeah. Well, when he talks about the city in Revelation, chapter 21 of the New Jerusalem in verse 24, it says, and the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it, and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honor into it, and the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day, and on and on, and they shall bring the glory and the honor of the nations into it. So what I believe is going on here is that when it talks about, you know, having right to the tree of life and being able to enter in through the gates into the city, I believe it's just talking about like a higher status. You know, when it comes to being saved, when it comes to having eternal life and escaping hell and, you know, inheriting the kingdom of God, it's just simply believing on Jesus Christ. It's simply faith alone. But that being said, we will be rewarded according to our works, and that is something that is just hammered in the book of Revelation, where he says, you know, behold, I come with me and my reward is with me to give every man according as his work shall be. And so, you know, when it comes to this status of, you know, having right to the tree of life and being able to enter in through the gates into the city, you know, it's basically just higher level of reward. You know, we have to work hard to earn high levels of reward, but just getting there, you just believe. Right. Yeah, that's what I kind of thought, but I wasn't quite sure, but you nailed it. All right. God bless you. Sure. Go ahead. Yep. Does the Bible say anything about the age of consent? I just wanted to know. Well, the closest thing to the age of consent, obviously, first of all, you know, according to the Bible, you have to be married to engage in any kind of intercourse. But in First Corinthians Chapter seven, it talks about a virgin passing the flower of her age in verse thirty six of First Corinthians seven. And so basically this is talking about the fact that she has matured and hit puberty and is basically, you know, at an adult stage, because if you think about it, the byproduct of having intercourse is that pregnancy results. And so obviously, a woman needs to be fully grown in order to have a child. Now, nowadays, a lot of girls are hitting puberty at a very young age. But this is because of the unhealthy food supply in the United States with all the hormones and the junk and the chemicals and the, you know, the phyto estrogen mimickers from the plastics and all the junk that we consume. You have girls going into puberty when they're, you know, ten, eleven, twelve years old. But historically, it's been more like 15 years old when they would even basically hit that age and when they would begin to have their cycles. And so perverts from Islam and things like that will try to claim like, oh, yeah, you know, when Mohammed married this nine year old, you know, she was old enough. But that's garbage. That's perverted. She was at least at least six years too young to be anyone's wife, let alone a 50 some year old man. And so that's just total pedophilia. And Mohammed's burning in the lowest hell right now for that and many other reasons. That's right. You nailed it. Thank you. God bless you, Pastor Anderson. All right. Thank you. Shout out to team Twitter and BibleChat. All right. Yep. Thanks for the good questions. All right. Yeah. What, you know, was the Bible say about the age of consent? Well, you know, the Bible has the answer for that and it condemns pedophilia, of course. Yes, Pastor Anderson's here. Oh, hey, can I get on? Yep. What's going on? Not much. How are you doing tonight? Good. How you doing? I'm doing pretty good. Listen, I had a question for you about Romans 1 24, because I believe that that's a pretty important part of your church, is this idea of God. You can correct me if I'm phrasing it wrong, but like basically giving up the word of God but like basically giving up on those with a reprobate mind or giving them a reprobate mind or something along those lines. I was looking through my old Bible now. I was raised Catholic, so I actually have a different Bible than King James, unfortunately. So it looks like the way they translated it was a little different. But I was looking back at Deuteronomy chapter 30. It's right after the list of all the different punishments God gives or different transgressions. And he says something along the lines of, let me pull it up here. And it shall come to pass when all these things are come upon me and the blessing and the curse which I said before thee and thou shalt call them to mind among all the nations rather than the Lord thy God hath driven thee and shall return unto the Lord thy God and shall obey his voice according to all that I command thee this day, thou and thy children and all thy. From what I'm getting from that passage, it almost seems like it's saying that even if you've transgressed against God, you've completely driven from your heart. If you decide to change your ways, He will let you back in. So I mean, maybe I'm reading it wrong, but I don't see where it says anything like that. Which verse exactly are you talking about? Because I don't see where it says anything that's similar to Romans 1, unless it's a different verse. Which verse? Yeah, that's the problem. It's Deuteronomy 30. And in my version, I have the New American. When I look at the King James, it actually looks like it's worded a lot different. Well, hey, then the King James just fixed everything. Yeah, see, that's like a lot. Sometimes there will be doctrinal issues, and then it's like you'll check them in the King James, and they're not even there. So case closed. Case dismissed with prejudice. It says, uh, it says, "...and provided that you and your children return to the Lord your God and eat His voice away from her..." But don't— are you telling me— are you going to tell me what another version says? I'm just telling you, just because of the contradiction. I know. Even from all the ends of the work, you'll be forgiven for your sins, and... Yeah. Yeah, it doesn't seem to sound very right with what Romans is saying. But hey, you know what? I guess that just proves that you can't trust every Bible you read. Yeah, because if you're not King James only, you can't expect, like, the Romans 1 from the KJV to be compatible with, you know, Deuteronomy 30 from a different version. You know, you gotta compare KJV with KJV, you know what I mean? Now, would you suggest buying, like, a hard copy, or do you think reading an online version is just fine for, like, normal use? Yeah, I don't think there's anything wrong with reading it online. You know, I personally, just because I spend so much time every day looking at a computer, I prefer to have a physical book in my hand, just for my eyes' sake. But, you know, if you don't mind looking at the screen, I think that an electronic Bible is just as good as a paper copy. Yeah. I have one more question, because I'm taking up a lot of your time here. But I have one question, because, like I said, I was raised Catholic for most of my life, and I know that you do— you dislike the Catholic Church. If there is one main reason you dislike it, what would it be? Like, the biggest reason you don't support the Catholic Church, what would it be? I mean, the biggest thing is the workspace salvation. I mean, that's really the number one thing. Because for me, it's like the whole child abuse scandal, and the whole elitism— Well, that's another great reason, yeah, I agree with you. All right, well, thank you for your time. Yeah, God bless you. God bless you. Yes, Pastor Anderson here, how you doing? Hi, Steve. I kind of have, like, a multi-part question for you. It's about marriage and consummation. I wanted to know if, essentially— like, because the prerequisite for, I would say, for marriage is you've got to be a virgin, no? You're supposed to be, but if you're not a virgin, that doesn't mean you can't get married. I mean, you can still get married, even if you're not a virgin. It's just that, you know, God's will is that we remain a virgin until we get married. Right, so then would consummation be considered a full marriage? No, absolutely not. I believe that there are three elements necessary to constitute a legitimate marriage. Element number one is a vow. Element number two is consummation. And element number three is that it be recognized by law. So basically, you know, you're promising that it's for life, and it's recognized by law as marriage, and you consummate the marriage physically. If any of those three elements are missing— I mean, maybe if the vow were missing, you could say, well, if they did it by— because here's the thing. You can't get married by law without the promise or the vow. You have to sign it and do all that. So, I mean, if you're legally married and you consummate, you're married. If it's not legal, I don't recognize it. And if you don't consummate it, I don't believe it's marriage. But just having sex with someone doesn't make you married. Absolutely not. Like, I know, like, you got to be a virgin. The prerequisites biblically for being married, you got to be a virgin. Of course, I would say you have to even believe in God in order to consummate it, because then who would you make the vow under? No, you're not making any sense. There are all kinds of Hindus and Buddhists and atheists getting married, and they're actually married, and they don't have to believe in God. And you don't have to be a virgin to get married. You know, God commands us to be a virgin. I was a virgin when I got married. But the point is, you can't say that that's a prerequisite to getting married, because what about somebody who's not a virgin? Are you saying that they can't get married? See how that would be? No, that's what I was confused about. Yeah, that's what I was really confused about. I was wondering if, like, for instance, if a person living in a couple living in fornication, let's say they got married, right? They did the vow, they did all the legal procedures, and then they consummate it. Yeah. What I was wondering is, because consummation would be kind of like the credited first sexual act of intercourse, right? That would be like in God's eyes. And when I talk about marriage, I mean, I'm not talking about Muslims or those kinds of people, because I completely agree with you on all those teachings that, you know, you give in your sermons. I'm talking about, like, just regular Christians, or people who call themselves Christians. Would that, could a fornicator consummate if they've already had this? Yeah, I mean, this is something that we run into all the time, where, you know, we win somebody to Christ. You know, thank God we're reaching people. So, you know, we win somebody to Christ, and they're basically living with someone that they're not married to. Now that they're saved, they want to get it right, they want to fix it. So they're like, Pastor Anderson, you know, can you marry us? You know, I want to make an honest woman out of her. And then what we do is, we have a wedding, and then they sign on the dotted line, I pronounce a man and wife, we send it in to Arizona, and then, you know, they go home and consummate it once again for the umpteenth time, but yeah, they're married. But anyway, I gotta let you go. Thanks for the call, God bless you, and have a good one. All right, let's move on to the next. Yes, Pastor Anderson here, how you doing? Hey, how's it going? This is Marvin. Hey, I had a question about language. I run into two typical issues, one with that I'm totally in agreement with you, by the way. Let me just get that out there. But when the name Yeshua gets used, I'm off the rebuttal that people come up with as, well, that's just the transliteration of the name, and that's just splitting hairs, and that kind of thing. And then the other word is the word pi, uh, for when the issue of baptism comes up, and one Peter saved by water, um, you know, and I've kind of gone with the pi in that sense, mean, uh, near, you know, or beside water, because obviously the water, uh, was the danger there. So those two come up pretty frequently when I'm discussing with people. I wonder what your deeper kind of thoughts on those. Yeah, let me, let me give you some additional thoughts on the term Yeshua, because I did do a whole video called defending the name of Jesus from the Yeshua crowd. So I encourage you to watch that video, but let me go into a little more depth that I, that I don't think I quite covered in that video. Here's the thing. If you're speaking the modern language of Hebrew, like, let's say you're actually in Israel, speaking the modern language of Hebrew, I don't think there'd be anything wrong with using that modern word. Just like when I go to Mexico, I'm going to preach about Jesus. And when I go to Germany, I'm going to preach about Jesus. And when I go to Greece, I'm gonna preach about Jesus. But, you know, the problem is when you try to bring that into English, that name has no basis. It is not a transliteration from the Bible, because the Bible, the New Testament of the Bible is written in Greek. And so the Greek word is Jesus, and that transliterates into Jesus. Okay, that's how we pronounce that in English. So whether you say Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, you know, those are all fine. And, and if you said, you know, you'll hear people say, and I don't speak Arabic, but I think they say Isamasia, or something along those lines in like Arabic, and also in, what's that language that's just like Hindi, except it's like a Muslim version of Hindi? Urdu. Like in Urdu, they'll say like Isamasia, or something like that. And then you'll hear Yesu, or in Hebrew, if they want to say Yeshua. But the thing is, we're not speaking modern Hebrew, we're speaking English. And the problem with the Yeshua crowd is that they're under the warped, bizarre teaching that somehow the New Testament was not written in Greek, even though it's addressed to places like Corinth, Rome, churches in Galatia, Ephesus, Thessalon, Nyka, all these Greek-speaking places, Greek-speaking guys like Theophilus, and, you know, Gaius, and everything. So you see what I'm saying? Yeah, and I think the first clue with these guys is how pretentious they are about it, and they want to mix the English and the Yeshua together. Right. So I think that makes sense what you're saying. Yep. All right. God bless you. Thanks for the call. Yeah, what it is is it's like a cosplay, throw on the prayer shawl, Shabbat shalom, you know, you know, just all this weird cultural stuff from Hebrew or Jewish culture, which doesn't make any sense because the New Testament's written in Greek. It's not a Hebrew book in the New Testament. How can you sit there and claim that the epistle of Paul the Apostle to the Thessalon nikens is written in Aramaic or Hebrew? That's just ridiculous. All right, so I'm going to speak with Brother Bruce Mejia now on FaceTime. So how you doing, Brother Mejia? Can you hear me? Yes, can you hear me? Can you see me? Yes, I can. So tomorrow is your big night. Yes, sir. You got 24 hours not to screw things up, man. No, actually, I love Brother Mejia. And not only for those that are watching home, not only, you know, has he been working for me as an employee, but I consider him a personal friend. He and I actually just like to talk and hang out a little bit, too, because we actually get along great. So it's going to be my honor and privilege to ordain you tomorrow night, brother. I'm excited about it. I'm really grateful. So, yeah, the only thing I'm really worried about is the space. You think it's going to be pretty packed in the building? Yeah, it's going to be really packed because I hear like about 45 people are coming from Tempe. Of course, we have our people who are going to be here, but then we have people from different places that are also coming out just in support of it as well. Friends from my old church and just it's going to be packed out. So we're excited about it. Yeah, it seems like everybody I talked to says that they're coming. So we might just have to do that thing where we have all the little children like sit Indian style in the front rows on the floor and do that and make some space. But that's good. That's always a good problem to have. Amen. So if you're planning on going tomorrow night down at FWBC LA, what time is it? Is it seven o'clock, right? So the service will be at seven o'clock and the address is 2600 Tyler Avenue, El Monte, California. And so we encourage anybody to come down and we're going to have our young guys stand up for everyone so they can have seats and stuff like that. So we're going to have a good time. We're going to have preaching. Of course, Pastor Anderson is going to be preaching. And then after that, we're going to have like a dessert fellowship. It's actually going to be a pretty exciting weekend. We then have a Sony marathon in Inglewood the following day on Saturday. And the basic schedule is the way we have it every time, which is nine to 10 is breakfast at the Panera Bread over in Southgate. And then from 1030 to 1230, we're going to do some soul winning. From one to two, we have lunch at Panera Bread back in Southgate. And then from two thirty to four thirty, we resume soul winning in Inglewood. And then Sunday is the big day as well. It's our first Sunday as First Works Baptist Church. And so if you live anywhere in the Los Angeles area and Downey, L.A., Long Beach, you know, Orange County, if you are anywhere close by, we encourage you to come for our first service is going to be excited. We're going to have a breakfast potluck at nine forty five. And so we encourage everyone to be there. It's going to be great. We're looking forward to it. Amen. Awesome, man. Looking forward to seeing you tomorrow. God bless you. Have a good one. Hey, before you hang up. Yeah. Before you hang up. Let's see that T-shirt you're wearing there, Brother Bruce. Oh, yeah. Oh, wow. First Works Baptist Church. Looks good, man. Did you design that yourself? Yes, I did. You are an artist, my friend. Wow. Thank you. We got one waiting for you, Pastor. So you got you got one here. Sounds good. All right. I'll be right in with that. Yep. See you. Bye. God bless. All right. Here we go. All right. Let's take another call here. Yes, Pastor Anderson here. How you doing? Hey, good, Pastor Anderson. Quick question for you. Just want to say thanks for all you do. And you actually baptized me at Rock Falls at Tommy McMurtry's church and really encouraged me to to get get involved in a church. I get a first Baptist now in Hammond. Just had a quick question for you on a couple of guys from the Reformation, Martin Luther, Calvin and John Knox. Do you do you believe they were saved? Who do you think was saved, wasn't saved out of out of some of those reformers? Well, here's the thing. I haven't read any of the works like any complete works of John Calvin and John Knox. So I'm not really too familiar with their material. And when it comes to Martin Luther, I read his book on the Jews and their lies. I read that book twice. And I really like the book. And it's like I really wanted him to be saved, you know, because it was such a great book. But there's this one part in it that I just I just couldn't figure out any other way to understand it, other than that he was saying that, like baptism saves us because there was this one line. It was like I don't remember which chapter, but it was like the last sentence in one of the chapters where he talks about, you know, baptism saving us. And it was it was kind of just a bummer because everything else in the book was pretty doctrinally sound. So I haven't read a lot of his works. But from what I understand, he believed in baptismal regeneration. And so I don't believe that he was saved. No, I don't know 100 percent, but I would say he's not safe. And I would also just off the cuff say that John Calvin and John Knox are not saved. But, you know, like I said, I haven't really delved into their works to know for sure exactly what they taught, because sometimes, you know, people's followers teach something different than they taught. Because when you read Martin Luther's books on the Jews, that's not what his followers are teaching, you know, and it's not the style of his followers either. So I just a quick shout out as I was a former, you know, unsaved Presbyterian. I loved your sermon, The Problem with Protestants. I thought it was, you know, spot on growing up in a Presbyterian church. And my anecdotal experience is I believe, you know, half of Protestants today are unsaved. Obviously, a lot of the, you know, Presbyterian USA churches are just super liberal, you know, totally unsaved. But I really resonated with that sermon and just appreciate all you do. And, you know, I think the Protestants need to be, a lot of them need to be saved today too, you know. Yeah, amen. I agree with you. And I don't know if I said this in my sermon on The Problem with Protestants, but one of the theories that I've had is that it's sort of like, you know, if you remember back when the Ron Paul campaign came out in 2008, and, you know, there was a big movement of the Tea Party in 2009. And when you went to that Tea Party in 2009, it was all like these Ron Paul supporters. It was libertarians. It was a grassroots movement of people that were really for, you know, a limited government, going back to the founding fathers and stuff like that. But then all of a sudden in 2010, next thing you knew the Tea Party was like Sarah Palin and John McCain. And you're like, what in the world? This is the Tea Party? And the Tea Party just became like this neocon establishment Republican thing. So I don't know. I'm wondering if maybe that's what happened in the Protestant Reformation, because the slogans are so great, you know, the Sola Fide, Sola Scriptura. I mean, they have so many great slogans. But then it seems like people came in and kind of like co opted it and made it too Catholic, you know, and so that, you know, the main leaders, the big names ended up, you know, being too Catholic. And they were sort of like the Sarah Palin and the John McCain. And then, you know, some Ron Paul is the guy who actually started it, and we don't know about him. Who knows? Yeah, no, 100 percent. And the last thing I'll just say is, being in a lot of Presbyterian churches especially, it's really sad that, like I said a lot of them around the city, and like I, you know, got saved listening to your Bible Way to Heaven video, and it was just so clear. I never heard a clear presentation of the gospel growing up in Presbyterian churches, and it's just sad today. And I have a big heart to reach, you know, obviously everyone, but Protestants too, because a lot of them are in the dark, sadly. Yeah, amen. Yeah, totally. Pastor Dave Burzins, he was raised Presbyterian, wasn't saved, and so yeah, you know, I have rarely met Lutherans or Presbyterians who convinced me that they were saved, but it's very few and far between. And it's funny, I met this one guy, he was like a free Lutheran or something. I guess that's like the equivalent of being like an independent Baptist. He was some kind of free Lutheran or something, and he said that, like, he considered the main Lutheran church in America the ELCA or ELCA. He said that they were like satanic and of the devil, and that they're not even saved. There are four homos. Even he was like condemning his fellow Lutherans. And then I know that there's the Missouri Synod is more conservative, and then there are like free Lutherans that are like more of a fundamentalist Lutheran or whatever. So I'm not going to say that a hundred percent of them aren't saved, but like you said, you know, a lot of them aren't saved, and we need to preach them the gospel. And, you know, when we go out soul winning door to door, we definitely run into Protestants a lot. So yeah, amen. You know, and I just want to say thanks again for all the encouragement. I've gotten involved with Fisherman's Club at First Baptist, and, you know, really, you know, really appreciate all your work. So, amen. All right, God bless you. Keep it up over there. All right, before we take another call, let's do some voicemails. Okay, this one here is about Mormons. I didn't do a good job of pre-screening them, so I had to... I'm hearing for the first time Paul did it. Just calling in, I live in Utah. I was wondering your advice for interacting with Mormons and the Mormon faith. You know, everywhere I go, when I go to work, when I go to school, they're always talking about going off on their mission, spreading their false gospel or whatever. How do I go about interacting with that? Do I just shun it? Do I just not even respond? Or do I just give up? Oh, that's neat. You know, how do I go about interacting with this false gospel? Because I haven't been able to have any progress in spreading Christ or sharing the message of Christ with them. Thank you. God bless. Well, you definitely don't want to say anything positive, like, oh, that's neat, or, you know, have a good trip, because he that biddeth him God speed is a partaker of his evil deeds, you know, if somebody comes preaching another gospel, according to the book of 3 John. So, you know, we don't want to be positive toward these things, but if you're in a work environment or a school environment where it's not appropriate for you to get into a big argument or, you know, dispute with them or preach the gospel to them, if you're in an environment where you don't have that liberty because you're on the clock or something, then, you know, I would just try to just, you know, ignore it, just try to just be neutral if you can. But if you're in a situation where you can speak up, then yeah, all you can do is just, you know, try to tell them the error of their ways, try to preach them the gospel. And unfortunately, they're one of the hardest groups of people to win to the Lord. I mean, and here's the thing, people are leaving the Mormon church by the droves every single day. But the problem is they're going to atheism, they're going to agnosticism, they're just throwing out the baby with the bathwater. And so, you know, you by all means try to get them saved. I wish I could give you more tips on getting them saved. But I haven't had a lot of success with getting them saved. I've gotten a few saved, but very few, because that is a tough nut to crack. All right, you got another voicemail for me? Yes, I do. I just want to make a just a comment about the sound. We've got a little audio sync issue happening right now. So people are letting us know in the chat. So we definitely know about that. Unfortunately, we'd have to stop things and reboot. That's gonna take some time. So we're just gonna fly with it and fix it in the in the post-production stage. So I just want to let everybody know that we know, and just ride it out with us. So this is about the millennium. Hi Pastor Anderson, my name's Steve. Just wondering what women's roles will be during the millennium reign. Will women also rule and reign? Just want to know. Thanks, bye. Yes, I do believe that women will rule and reign with Christ, simply because of the fact that if you go back to the very beginning, Adam and Eve were in the garden, and the reason why Eve ended up being told that her desire would be to her husband, and that her husband would rule over her, that was actually the result of her sin. So it wasn't that way initially. It was because she sinned that that was placed upon her that her desire will be to her husband. Her husband would rule over her, and so I do believe that in the resurrection she's not going to be under that constraint. First of all, she's not going to be married, so she's not going to have a husband to rule over her, and so I do believe that, you know, spiritually in Christ there's neither male nor female, so I do believe that she will be able to reign in the millennium. Now again, when the Bible says in Christ there's neither Jew nor Greek, male nor female, bond nor free, it's just basically saying, you know, that we're all equal spiritually in God's sight. So obviously women will continue to be women, and men will continue to be men, but women are not going to be in the same subservient role for all eternity that they are in right now in the home. All right, here we go again. So I'll give you another one here. This is on the Trinity. Hi, Pastor Anderson. I have a question. In Isaiah chapter 6, I was wondering who is sitting on the throne. Is it the pre-incarnate Jesus Christ, or is it God the Father? Thank you for fielding my question, and God bless. You know, this whole sitting on the throne thing, it really just— yeah, sometimes I can't, but I don't want to pin this on the caller, because, you know, the caller may just be a sincere Trinitarian who's just asking an honest question, so I'm not saying anything about the caller, okay? But I just want to say that this modalist argument about, there's only one person on that throne, has got to be the dumbest possible argument ever, because when you actually read the book of Revelation, you know, the Lamb comes and takes the book out of the hand of the one who's sitting on the throne. So clearly in that passage, Revelation 5, God the Father is sitting on the throne, and Jesus comes and takes the book out of his hand, and, you know, these modalist heretics will say, there's always only one throne and one person sitting on that throne. It's such garbage, because Revelation 20 says, you know, him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne. So you can see that Jesus is sitting with the Father in his throne, and how many times do we see where God is seated on the throne, and Jesus is at the right hand of God the Father over and over again, seated at his right hand, seated on the right hand of the Father. So just that argument from the oneness Pentecostal crowd is just dead on arrival. It's just a DOA argument. So I just wanted to give that preface. Okay, now let's go back into the Old Testament, Isaiah chapter 6. He wants to know who's on the throne. Verse 1, in the year that King Uzziah died, I saw also the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up, and his train filled the temple. Above it stood the seraphims. Each one had six wings. They cried, holy, holy, holy. The post of the door moved at the voice of him that cried. I'm skipping, just because I'm just trying to skim through it. He said, woe is me, for I'm undone, because I'm a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips. From mine eyes have seen the King, the Lord of hosts. Let's see, I heard the voice of the Lord saying, whom shall I send, and who will go for us? There's your nod to the Trinity. Then said I, here am I, send me. Well, let me give you a few thoughts here. First of all, it seems to be mirroring the scene that we see in Revelation 4 and 5, so that would indicate that it's God the Father seated on the throne, but because of the fact that He says, I have seen the King, the Lord of hosts, we have to understand, we would have to know exactly what He saw or what He meant by that, because a lot of times when people saw into heaven, they saw the glory of the Lord. You know, they saw the light that no man can approach unto, but they didn't actually see the face, because no man can see God the Father's face and lip. So if he actually saw a person there that he could actually, you know, see a face, literally, then he would have been looking at, of course, the Son of God. But it's more likely that just as Stephen looked up and he saw the glory of God and Jesus standing at the right hand of God the Father, that basically when he says, I've seen the King, the Lord of hosts, that he just saw the glory of the Lord, the light that no man could approach unto. He saw the Lord seated on the throne high and lifted up, but that he was veiled in glory. So it could be either one of those two things, and frankly I don't know, and frankly I don't care, because the Bible does not differentiate frequently in the Old Testament between the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost, because the Trinity is something that is taught in depth in the New Testament. So going through Old Testament passages like this and trying to always figure out whether we're referring to the Father or the Son is not always going to be profitable. Now sometimes it's obvious that we're dealing with the Son of God. You know, when we see a physical man walk up and meet Abraham in Genesis 18, or when we see the fourth man in the fire in Daniel 3 25, or a man wrestling with Jacob in Genesis 32, those are clearly the Son of God. In a passage like this, I don't think it's relevant to the interpretation of this passage. I think you'd be better off interpreting the clear scriptures in Revelation and in the New Testament, if you want to understand the Trinity. If you want to understand the Trinity, make the New Testament your primary textbook. Pastor, on that same subject, somebody came up to me after church and asked me a question of why, and they wanted to go back to the Hebrew, and they had a question about why in Genesis chapter 1, the Hebrew word Elohim is used for the singular word God. So I tried to answer it as best as I could, I mean, but what would your answer be? Why is that a plural word? Obviously we're talking about the Trinity, but... Well, not only is Elohim a plural word, but also Adonai, which is the word for Lord when it's not in all capital letters. Adonai is also a plural word, okay, because, and it would literally mean my Lord's plural, just like Elohim would literally be a plural of God, but it's used with a singular verb. It's treated as a singular, so that's why it just, it doesn't say God's, it says, you know, and God said, let there be light. And obviously the reason for the plurality there is simply because God is three persons, so there's your plurality right there. So that's why these names are plural in form, but singular in their usage, but you don't have to read Hebrew to understand that, because even just in Genesis 1 you see, let us make man in our image after our likeness. Also, we have the New Testament, so we can understand much more about the Trinity and the nature of God than they understood back in the Old Testament, even being a fluent Hebrew speaker reading the Bible in Hebrew, they saw through a glass darkly. We see much more clearly in the New Testament, so. Further on that subject, so somebody would say when, we've heard this before, but when somebody says, well, the we, God, make, when we say, let's make man in our image, that's talking about God and the angels, right? I know you've heard that, so can you just go ahead and stop that real quick? Yeah, I mean, that's just, that's complete nonsense, because then you would be basically saying that the angels created us, like God saying to the angels, hey, let's make man in our image. That would mean that they're participating in creation. It would also mean that they are also in God's image, and basically that just makes no sense. It's nonsense, you know, and by the way, you know, he says, let us make man in our image, singular, you know, because of the fact that the us there is the Father, Son, and the Holy Ghost, and Jesus is the express image of God the Father's person, according to Hebrews 1. He is the image of the invisible God, so therefore, it's only one image that is shared by Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, so, but whereas the angels don't share that same image, certainly not the angels that are mentioned in Genesis, or in the book of Genesis, you know, like, for example, when we get into, like, the cherry bims, or something like that. All right, so let's go to a question about Jesus in hell. I know you talked about it in your sermon last night, so let's... I was wondering if you can elaborate on Matthew 27, verse 52 and 53. My neighbor is saying that Jesus went to hell, and He preached to people, and that verse explains how when He resurrected, and all the other saints came out of the graves, and I'm trying to tell him that you preached a sermon called Jesus Descending to Hell, and in that video, around the 17 minute, all the way up to the 22nd, 44 seconds, you explained it, that He did not preach in hell, therefore, He actually paid for our sins. I was wondering if you can elaborate on Matthew 27, verse 52 and 53, please. Thank you. Appreciate it. All right, so Matthew 27, 52 and 53. Let's back up and get the context. Verse 50. Jesus, when He had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost, and behold, the veil of the temple was rent and twain from the top to the bottom, and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent, and the graves were opened, and many bodies of the saints which slept arose and came out of the graves after His resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many. So what we see here is just a physical miracle where great physical graves are open, and dead bodies of saints which slept arose. It doesn't say all the saints which slept arose, and it doesn't say that they ascended up into heaven, or anything like that. In fact, here's the proof that that didn't happen. In Acts chapter 2, Peter specifically says that David is not ascended into the heavens. We know of his sepulcher unto this day. So in Acts chapter 2, Peter says we know of David's sepulcher unto this day. He stated that David's body was still in the grave in Acts chapter 2, and that David had not yet ascended into heaven. So here we don't see these people ascending into heaven. We don't see these people, just all saints. This is just many. Many is four or more people, okay? So many people, many dead, saved people, obviously recently dead, recently buried people. This is like a Lazarus situation where some dead bodies walk out of the grave. They walk into the holy city. That's Jerusalem, the set-apart city, okay? They walk into the holy city, and they appeared unto many. So it was just a miracle. This is sort of like where, you know, when Elisha had died, and he was buried, and then they threw a dead body, and when it touched the bones of Elisha, it came back to life. You know, when Jesus died on the cross and rose again, people walked out of the graves like a Lazarus type situation, and they just walked into the city of Jerusalem. And the reason Jerusalem is still called the holy city here is because this is before that had totally been taken away. In Hebrews chapter 8, he said, that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away, meaning that the old covenant had not quite vanished away. The new covenant had come into force with Jesus, with the death of the testator, and then the old covenant was, you know, waxing old and ready to vanish away. It was on its way out, transitionary period here, and so that's why it's still called the holy state. There's nothing holy about it right now, but, you know, it was holy at that time. Now it's like a spiritual Sodom, according to Revelation. All right, I think it's time for me to call Brother McMurtry, right? I think I'm going to be calling Pastor McMurtry to talk to him about Cameron Javanelli getting arrested. Praise the Lord that this bozo is—he's not even a bozo. This wicked devil, this reprobate, is being punished. So let me find Brother McMurtry's number here in Skype and give him a call on video Skype. I think he's pretty up on that situation, so we can check in with him and talk to him about it. And, you know, these scandals, when they happen in the independent fundamental Baptist movement, and we see these predators, whether they be committing statutory rape, molestation, committing adultery with the wives of the members, whatever filthy, you know, awful things that they're doing to prey upon innocent people in the church, these sexual predators, they need to be taken to task. They need to be turned over to the police. They need to be prosecuted to the full extent of the law, and everyone needs to be warned about them, okay? And it shouldn't be like the Catholic Church where it's swept under the rug. So I think Brother McMurtry is here. How you doing, Brother? I'm doing good. Can you see and hear me? Yes, I can. Okay, my screen's doing something weird, but as long as you can see and hear me, we're good. So what's going on? Tell me what the deal is with Cameron Javanelli. Yeah, so he was arrested. You know, he's out on bail. They let him go. You know, he's agreed to appear for court and everything, but, you know, they are bringing charges against him, so that's great, and, you know, so I'm assuming if they're gonna go through all the trouble of, you know, taking him to trial and everything, they must feel like they've got the goods on them. So hopefully he's gonna go to jail and get locked up for a while. Amen. Yeah, usually when they prosecute someone, they at least feel like they have enough evidence, so hopefully, you know, we would love to see them hang him high, but that's not gonna happen, but at least, you know, the fact that he's being punished, he's being exposed, because these fundamental Baptist infiltrator Judases, they're so brazen, they're so wicked. I mean, this Cameron Javanelli who committed statutory rape and, you know, just committed this predatory act on a teenage girl and kept in touch with her and all this stuff, there's all this evidence. There are witnesses, it's documented, and they try to just sweep it under the rug, and then not only that, but the filthy pervert, and I'm just gonna cut loose, because this show is called Uncensored, okay, this filthy pervert Greg Neal, okay, who videotaped women getting dressed in his office, and look, I made diligent inquiry into that. I watched the video that's censored by the police as the black bars up and everything, and look, it is clear that he is guilty. In fact, the police department said that Greg Neal, that they had just overwhelming evidence of his guilt, but that it was just beyond the statute of limitations, and I would encourage anyone who doubts his guilt, just read the article written by Peter Hyatt, just Google the statement analysis of Greg Neal's non-denial. You can't even call it a denial, it's a non-denial, because he doesn't deny it, okay, he lies through his teeth and makes it sound like he's denying it, but this pervert Greg Neal, who's a voyeur who abused his college students by having girls get changed in his office while he's videotaping, okay, and then he's teaming up with Cameron Javanelli, statutory rapist, and they're starting a Bible college, and they have this conference called the Preacher's Delight Conference, where they've got Bob Gray, and we know that he, of course, is connected with that Born That Way Ministries pervert, so we've got Bob Gray, the pervert, who's best buddies with David Hiles, the pervert, and then you've got Greg Neal, the pervert, and then you've got Cameron Javan—it's a pervert convention! Your thoughts? Yeah, that's what makes me sick, so I mean, obviously, Pastor Stacey Shifflett blew the lid on this whole thing over a year ago, so the thing is, everybody knows about this. Everybody knew about Greg Neal, everybody knows about Cameron Javanelli, yet they're able to schedule this Preacher's Delight Conference, and it was interesting—I'll name off the speakers that were originally on there. It was Greg Neal, Scott Caudill, Darrell Cox, Justin Cooper, John Hamblin, Joe Arthur, my favorite camp meeting preacher, J.C. House, Tom Neal, Shelton Smith, Bob Gray Sr., Terrell Hopkins, Allen Domiley, Don Chitty, and Norris Belcher. So the thing is, these guys, knowing that the scandals are just hovering around this church, knowing that guys like David Hyles is down there, they all went ahead and agreed to go to this conference. Why? Because it's like a cover-up convention. But now this thing, after Javanelli, him and Tom Neal both put out hit pieces against the victim, a lot of these guys actually backed out. And so from my sources, they're telling me John Hamblin, Shelton Smith, Joe Arthur, and Norris Belcher, and Scott Caudill have all backed out. And I believe Darrell Cox and Justin Cooper. I'm not positive about that. So most of their speakers are backing out now. But the thing is, they're all being quiet about it. John Hamblin just now, after Cameron Javanelli gets arrested, he finally publicly announces that he's not going to be at the conference. But he mentioned that he decided two months ago, which apparently, I think most of those guys did, from what I understand. But they're being hush-hush because they're scared to death of the Neals. These guys are like Baptist Mafia, and Tom Neal is like the godfather. They're scared to death of these guys. So my question is, when is J.C. House, Terrell Hopkins, Don Chitty, Bob Gray Sr., and Alan Domiley going to back out of this conference? Now, Bob Gray Sr. is a member there, so I think he's committed. And Alan Domiley, his dad was also a preacher that was a pervert who is in prison right now. So I think it's safe to say he'll stay there. So the thing is that just makes me sick about all of this is just the fact that all these guys, even though they knew about this, were still willing to support it just because it wasn't fully uncovered yet. They're just willing to take their lame little denials and things. And the thing that bothers me, they're backing out, but they're not taking strong stands against them. They're not being public about it. They're not calling these guys out. And the thing is, people say, you guys need to mind your own business, it's none of your business. But it is our business because these guys call themselves IFB, and people try to attach this stuff to us. And we have a no-pervert policy in our church. And a lot of Baptists have a no-pervert policy, but then you've got just cover-ups abounding and no one calling it out. And every one of these guys who originally agreed to this conference, they supported Greg Neal knowing the controversies that were surrounding him. And now that he is so guilty, I looked into it. I looked at all the evidence. He is super guilty. There's no way that Greg Neal wasn't guilty. That's what the police department said. That's what the evidence all showed. And you know what, it's like you said, it's our business because they are giving the independent fundamental Baptist movement a bad name. And you know, if they stop calling themselves independent Baptists, if they take Baptists off the sign and start calling them, you know, grace fag-loving idiot church, then we'll mind our own business and leave them alone. But you know, if they're going to drag the name of Christ in the mud and drag the Baptist name in the mud, and specifically the independent fundamental Baptist name through the mud, we have to make it clear, hey, we're not that kind of Baptist. If you're a pedophile in our churches and we find out you're going to the police, your name's mud, we will destroy you. And you know what? Hey, we had a preacher friend of ours who was, you know, going out and, and, and, you know, going to casinos, using the church's money, visiting process. Hey, we publicly exposed him and condemned him. We refuse to sweep anything under the rug. The old IFB wants to be like the Roman Catholic church and hide all this stuff. Hey, we're putting it all out in the open. And publicly did it. I mean, within days, I mean, like the next day or hours, pretty much of it being uncovered, you know, we don't cover it up for a long time, wait months and all the things like they do, and then have some, you know, read some document that a lawyer went over before we say anything. And you know, and not only that, I mean, you as his sending pastor, we're the one that did it. You didn't try to cover for yourself and makes you, you know, expose it exactly the way these guys should be doing it. And it is, it is so revolting. And I can't believe there's not more people in the old IFB standing up, you know, thank God there's people like Stacey Shiflett who has stood up and he's taken a beating for it. You know, he's not getting asked to speak at a lot of these conferences, but you know, thank God he had the guts to do what he did and, and take that beating. But I, I pray that, you know, it's a wake up call and I'm hoping it becomes, you know, the next big thing, the next cool thing to do, to expose perverts. Cause there's a lot more that needs to be exposed. And I mean, I know personally of some now that I, you know, I'm waiting for the full official stories. I'm hearing things through the grapevine, but I'm wondering, are there folks, are there guys, you know, are there sending preachers? Are they going to expose these guys? Are they just going to cover up and try to relocate them? Cause I can promise you if they do, if I get the story, you better know I'm going to be saying something. It's, it's wicked as hell to cover this up. And they try to justify it like, well, you know, it's, it gives the cause of Christ a bad name. Let's just keep it quiet, publish it, not in gath or whatever stupid arguments that they have where they twist scripture. You know, what gives us a bad name is if we lie and cover things up, if we tell the truth, look, the Bible guaranteed us in second Peter chapter two, there will be false prophets among us. There will be people who creep in unawares. There'll be damnable heresy. There will be the predators and the people who defile the flesh like Sodom and Gomorrah Jude and second Peter to guarantee that they will be among us. There will be Judas. The difference is how are we going to respond to it? I'll tell you how I'm going to respond to it. I'm going to blow the whistle. I'm going to call the police. I'm going to blow it open wide. And you know, you say people are afraid of the knee. I'm not afraid of that slob, Tom Neil. You know, if you watch this Tom Neil, you're a piece of crap, Tom Neil. Okay. That's what you are. You big fat piece of crap. What are you going to do about it? Punk? I'll tell you what Tom Neil do about it. He'll write a stupid blog post about it. That nobody's going to read. Yeah. And here's the thing with Tom Neil. See, Tom Neil is from that older generation. He's delusional. He does not realize the day and age we're in where people actually can't have a response. He comes from a day and age where only a few guys had the platform, where only a few guys had a say in anything. They could get up there. They could beat their chest. They could say what they wanted to say, and no one was allowed to respond. No dissenting opinion was allowed. Those people aren't going to get their articles put in the revival fires of the sword or whatever. But there's a new day and age that we live in now where other people's voices can be heard, and these guys, they cannot handle any scrutiny. Tom Neil's article that he wrote against Pastor Stacey Shiflett for blowing the lid on Cameron Givinelli was one of the dumbest things I ever read in my life. He got on there talking all smart and how they had a trained professional watch that video of Pastor Shiflett, and this trained professional figured out that, you know what, this man probably was a victim of some kind of abuse at one time in his life. He probably had some bad experience, and therefore, he's lashing back out. And what the big dumb idiot didn't realize is Stacey Shiflett in this video said that he was a victim of abuse. But he needed a professional to tell him what Shiflett explicitly said in the video. Absolutely. Now, I haven't read Pastor Shiflett's book, but my wife did read it, and my wife said that it's highly recommended. She loved the book. It's my understanding that you love the book as well, right, Brother McMurtry? Absolutely. I thought it was great. So, I mean, if people are interested in the subject of blowing the whistle on these freaks and understanding that, yes, 2 Peter 2 is true. These people creep in. And you know what? We need to just take the gloves off. Amen? And the old IFB is like the Roman Catholic Church or something, if they want to just hide this stuff. And you know what? If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem. If you're in these churches and you're going along with these crowds and everything, I mean, how can you just sit by and let these people get shuffled around? Good stinking night. Yeah, it's horrible. You know, and I just listened today to a message. It was actually preached over a year ago by Pastor Shiplett called Hanged and Drowned, I believe. And he was talking about perverts. He was talking about how, like the Bible says, they're better off dead. He was saying how they are not allowed in that church. If you're somebody who has a past with pedophilia or whatever, you're not allowed in that church. And it appears he's not exactly where we are on the reprobate doctrine and everything, but you know, at least he has a policy, no perverts in their church. They're not going to try to reform them in their church. They're not going to, they're just, they're, they're not welcome there. They have too many children around there and they have to protect their children. And the reason I think I enjoyed that book so much, well, you know, there's little details on there and things that I didn't completely agree with. The thing is he's taken a strong stand against perverts. He's taken a strong stand against trying to rehabilitate these people. He's taken a strong stand against coverups. And it was just a breath of fresh air to hear someone from the old IFB taking that stand. And I think, I thank God for him. I support him. I think he's a great guy. Uh, and I, I wish him the best and I hope, I hope that he can make a difference in that era. And I think he, I think he has. Yeah. And here's the thing, even if the old IFB doesn't wise up to the reprobate doctrine, if they would all just take Stacey Shifflet's stand, we'd be happy with it. Absolutely. We'd be satisfied at least with that. Amen. Absolutely. I think, I think that'd be great if they would all just do it like do like he does adopt his policies. Then I think, you know, I think live with that. Right. Absolutely. Maybe we'd start restoring our reputation, but you know, I think it's interesting how our crowd, we're always getting bashed by the news media for hating on perverts, you know, but then you've got the same news media. They bashed the old IFB for covering up for perverts. And it's like, either way, we're going to get hated. They are so scared of negative attention. They are so scared of the news media. The news media is going to hate them either way. So they might as well protect their people and rid the place of the perverts. But I want to I want to say this, too. I'll probably just leave it in a comment. But I've got all of these guys, their Twitter names, because these people, they live on Twitter. That's kind of their social media. That's like their older generation. They're really into Twitter, it seems like. Right. And they're terrified of they're terrified of negative attention. Start reading them off, because I don't know how to use Twitter. I've been trying to figure it out for the last decade, and I just gave up a long time ago. But can you start reading off their Twitter? Do you have it handy? And those that are Twitter savvy need to just start bombarding these people about this Cameron Javanelli thing? Absolutely. So the the actual conference, they have a page, it's called at Preacher Delight. So anything you tweet, if you if you put at Preacher Delight on there and people search that, everything's going to come up that has the app Preacher Delight on there. And so you want them to see your stuff. You want to have a link to this video. I will probably make some clips just of this section about it. You're going to want to share this thing like crazy on Twitter. But you're also going to want to put the names of these other people on that same thing. So anyone who searches at Dr. John and Hamblin will also see it. John Hamblin will see it. So there's at Dr. John and Hamblin at Justin Coop s Cooper at Bob Gray, Sr. at Tom Neil underscore Brienne, make sure he sees this video at Pastor Greg Neil at Dr. Scott Caudill at old paths journal. That's Alan Damelis at Dr. Shelton's L. Smith, Dr. Joe Arthur, Preacher Hopkins, and then the app Preacher Delight. There's a couple guys on there. I don't think they have Twitter. There's Don Chitty. I couldn't find a Twitter for him. JC house. I don't. Most of those guys. I don't know who they were selling Smith is on there. I'd love to see the sword of the Lord do a whole big story on this. Well, the sword, the sword of the Lord did do a very weak article. Uh, after Stacy Shifflett made the video, I forgot what it was about. It was clearly directed at Stacy Shifflett, but he tried to kind of play both sides and talk about, we got to be careful about rushing to judgment and things like it was super, super weak. But, um, yeah, that was, but it was, it was like the sword of Lord usually. Yeah. What about the VA Shelton Smith? What about the video of Greg Neil walking up and adjusting the video camera? You can see him actually manipulating the video camera in the video where the girls are getting changed in his office. And the police said that was plenty of evidence, but the statute of limitations is up, you know, let's not rush to judgment or anything. It's a pervert convention folks. Absolutely. And here's the thing these people need to understand, you know, Tom, Neil, and these guys, they all like to talk about how, you know, we need to let the proper authorities handle this. Well, I agree we need to turn these things over to the police and everything, but as when these types of things happen in the church, the church is the best people to judge the situation. Obviously we can't put a Cameron Giovanelli into prison or anything like that, but you better believe if something like that happens in our church, we are the proper authorities to judge it. And Calvary Baptist Church in Dundalk, Maryland is where these things took place. Calvary Baptist Church in Dundalk, Maryland, they judge the situation, determine the guy was guilty. Hey, they bet whatsoever they bind on earth shall be bound in heaven. Whatever happened to that scripture? Yeah, but all these guys don't use that scripture. They want the government to figure it out. So the problem is the government has the statute of limitations. So Greg Neil got off scot-free because the statute of limitations, but the church doesn't have a statute of limitations. And here's my question too. Why does Cameron Giovanelli sound like a total fag? Well, that's why these guys, you know, we get criticized for just, you know, condemning people because they're skinny jeans looking like a fag or whatever, but you know, it's high time we start holding people accountable for looking like a queer, talking like a queer. And then you're shocked when they're a predator, when they act like a sodomite, and then you wonder why they're praying. And by the way, folks, newsflash sodomites pray on both male and female, read Judges 19. They take the female as the consolation prize. Absolutely. And I believe Pastor Shiflett talked about this in his book. I don't want to add something to his book that's not there. I've read something about this. I think it was in his book where he talks about how even in nature, animals, there's things in animals that help them to be able to sense when danger is around. They can tell. And God has put things in us to be able to sense when danger is around. And God has put something in these fags so they reveal themselves. So our gaydar can go off and we can know we need to watch out and stay away from these people. But we've had it shoved down our throats and we've been brainwashed with this, don't judge, don't judge, don't judge. But if we would start using these God-given senses that He put in us, then it would save us from a lot of harm and heartache. Because so many times, I mean, I met Mike Zachary at Providence Baptist College. He did a music thing there. And my gaydar went off like crazy. My wife within five seconds of hearing his voice said that he was a sodomite, Mike Zachary, the first time she heard his voice. And then my ministry leader at First Baptist Church of Hammond said, hey, that guy used to go to college here. He's a sodomite. It was like common knowledge. And then he got busted being a sodomite. And he's still on staff at a fundamental Baptist church in San Diego, California right now, even though he's already been busted being a sodomite. Absolutely. Yeah. And thing is, Mike, you know, when it when it registered with me is when I shook his hand. Yeah. That just creepy dead fish hands to shake. And, you know, but the thing is, I mean, most of the time when my gaydar goes off these people, it ends up coming to pass. And you know what, when you're getting creeped out by people, you know, that's not enough for you to just go blowing the whistle on these people and declaring to the world that they're a fag. But it is enough where you need to be careful. And you need to watch yourself with these people. And it's enough not to ordain them and put them out in the pulpit. If they're just obviously flamboyantly queer, why would you then like elevate them to positions of leadership in the church? Right. When they're so questionable. Right. And yeah, and Pastor Shifflett talked about that in his book, too, with the with the pastor who had tried to molest him. That's just a horrible story. You know, he talks about how all the signs that were there before, but part of it was he was just so innocent, you know, that a lot of it went over his head. But the thing is, you know, there were a ton of signs before things actually happened the way they did. And so it's so important that we pay attention to these signs and that we protect ourselves. And I'm telling you, you know, I'm going to keep if people look like a queer, act like a queer, I'm going to treat them like one. And I'm not going to have them come preach in my church. I'm not going to be friends with them. And I'm going to keep my family away from them. But I really encourage people, I'll leave all of these Twitter names in the comments, and I want you to go, I want you to copy and paste those, and I want you to go leave some tweets about these things. Yeah, well, all they have to do, they should tweet the police report, tweet the stories in the media, and say, hey, you know, you're going to go preach at this church. Tweet the Greg Neal article, where Greg Neal is exposed. Right now, I don't have Twitter, so some people are going to have to kind of help get some of these things out there. I'll also put a link, I've got it right in front of me, of just a news report of the arrest of Cameron Giovanelli. It's got a stupid mugshot in there. Looks like he's got it. And here's the thing, you know, if we blow the whistle on these people and people still want to go to their church anyway, and they still want to go to these conferences anyway, you know what, then they deserve to be around these people then. But at least people should be warned, you know, and people should know. And you know what, the party's over for these freaks, because the internet makes it easy to expose them. Exactly. The party's over, pedophiles. Yep, yeah, and I... And voyeurs and other predators. Yeah, it's high time that these, you know, these guys that are on this list, you know, the Shelton Smith, they need to start fearing associating with perverts. They need to realize there's going to be a backlash for it. It's going to get attached to them. And you know, that's why we expose people as fast as we do whenever they turn out to be perverts or even just heretics. I don't want that stuff being attached to me. And it's going to happen. And so these guys, they need to pay a price for this. I think some of these guys that are on this list, I mean, I want them to be good guys. I like some of these guys. I've, you know, I've always liked Shelton Smith. I've heard Joe Arthur preach several times. I like him as a person. But the thing is, if he's going to hang out with Greg Neils, then he needs to pay the consequences for it. And then if he's going to, when the wind shifts, is just going to quietly back out, that's not enough. He needs to make it very public. He needs to let people know why. And they've got to stop being scared of Tom meal. That guy carries no clout anymore. Maybe in their little circle he does. But I'm telling you, that guy's nothing to fear. He's done for. He's a paper tiger. His time has passed. Well, you know what? Thank God that whole bogus generation's passing off the scene anyway. That generation that did not honor the Lord in their hearts. That wicked and adulterous generation. And hopefully we can see a new generation rise up of independent fundamental Baptists that don't put up with this garbage. And that when somebody is caught, you know, in flagrante doing these wicked things, then, you know, they need to be destroyed. They need to be arrested. They need to be turned over to the police. They need to be blackballed, not just, well, you know, let's just kind of put them on the shelf for a little while and restore them and whatever. No, if you are a predator, you're done game over. Yep. And you've, and thing is people you've got to be public and here's the problem. You know, when you get to know other preachers and things, you know, you get attached to your friends, you get emotional. I understand that it's hard, but we have a responsibility. And you know, I hate to say it, but a guy that I knew, well, I I've known his wife since she was real small, got busted molesting boys in his youth apartment for years. His name was Jacob Coyle. He was a part of Averyville Baptist church in Peoria, Illinois. I hate to bring him up, but you know what? Apparently months ago he got busted and it took me months before I even found out about it before I even knew a thing about it. And the thing is he's gone to court. He was found guilty. He is in prison and I haven't heard one person say a thing about it. How come nobody is saying anything about it? How come I'm hearing guys like him apparently had molested young girls in the past and it was known and it was under the rug and you know what, under the rug, when my sister's life. Yeah. Well, I want to ruin his life. I need these pedophiles. And you know, I remember when my sister was in New Mexico, there was a pastor. I don't remember his name, but he was caught in the park. The police did a sting operation where they caught him in the park with like 20 other sodomite dudes. Okay. Just having some bizarre, I don't want to say it's a shame even to speak of those things. We're done with them in secret, but they're busted in the bushes and they were within so many hundred feet of a school and they're just committing the worst acts of perversion. Men with men working that which is unseemly. This pastor was there. Okay. And he got arrested and it put the faces. It was like 19 guys were arrested. Their faces were all on the news. Their faces were all in the newspaper. He was fined $150. That was the punishment that the government gave him for just this public act of filth within sight of a school and, you know, in the bushes or whatever. And my sister, I kid you not, went to a preaching conference like a week and a half later at a church like 45 minutes away. And that guy just showed up and was just sitting in the audience and nobody said anything to him. Nobody said his name was all over the news. His face is all over the news. He was caught in flagrante being a homo at the park and he just shows up and then the pastor, or it wasn't the pastor that was preaching, it was an evangelist that was preaching and the evangelist was literally a blind man like he could not physically see. He was like a blind evangelist and he was preaching and he ripped on the sodomites in the sermon and my sister said that this guy that had been arrested a few weeks earlier and paid the $150 fine literally like snickered and laughed when the preaching on sodomites came. Okay, but nobody said anything, you know, but my sister, you know, she didn't want to speak up because, you know, she's a woman. She's keeping silent in the church. She was kind of like, and it just kind of, you know, you get caught off guard. She didn't know what to do, but was there not some hair-legged man in that church like the pastor of the church or, you know, preachers who knew this guy because this guy's preaching peers were there. Somebody would have said, hey faggot, get the hell out of here. Well, I'm just gonna say it right now. Any preacher that I know, if I find out he's a homo or a pervert, I'm gonna say his name publicly. Amen. So the thing is people better not tell me these secrets if they don't want it getting out because I will get it out. If I know these people, once I can confirm it's a fact, I'm not just gonna go spreading rumors and things like that, but, you know, you show me the evidence that it did in fact happen. Yeah, two or three witnesses, diligent inquiry is made, then what are you going to do? Right, and just so people know, in case people who, you know, know me and know me for a long time, apparently I'm hearing one of my old friends is a pervert too. I haven't got the official full story on that, but I can promise you as soon as I do, I will be saying his name publicly. And I pray that, like I said, apparently he's being investigated and stuff right now. It turns out that he did in fact do that. I hope he goes to prison and I will say his name because I promise you this guy is very well connected. He will get relocated. If the government doesn't do anything about him, he will be pastoring another church. You know, John Jenkins is another guy too that, I can't believe all the perverts he had in his church. And I know a bunch, I've met a lot of these people before and found out, in fact, I had a lady from there that called me and was telling me about all these scandals there and all these perverts, and I'm asking her about all these people that I knew there, and about half the people I'd asked her about were in fact perverts and had been busted and things. Thankfully a lot of them hadn't. You know, there were some decent ones there, but somebody's got to name these people. In fact, speaking of the name and the names real quick, you know, them in the sound room, they just googled it. That New Mexico guy was this Don Corley. He was like 70 years old, this dirty old man who was out in that park by the school that got arrested. Wow. Tell them to look up Jacob Coyle from Averyville Baptist Church. Yeah, Averyville Baptist Church. That's another one. Nobody knows about it. Nobody's talking about it. Nobody's publicly come out and condemned this. Nobody's talking about the fact that he was a known pervert and was not exposed and was put as the youth pastor in that church. And whoever put him in that position needs to be held accountable too. If they knew that that that was his proclivity and that he had done that filth in the past, it's like, look, folks, what does the Bible say? The Bible says that if the ox has already gored someone in time pass and pushed with his horn and you knew that that he was want to do so in time pass, if you don't keep him in, then you get the same punishment that that beast gets. So whoever puts him in charge of the youth when they know he's a pedophile is a freak too, and they need to be destroyed as well. Well, this is why we've got, people have got to teach your reprobate doctrine. Everyone thinks these people can be rehabilitated and be restored. They cannot, they cannot, and we have to keep thundering that from the pulpit. More people need to be preaching the truth on that. They are constantly trying to rehabilitate these people. And even if you think a pervert can be rehabilitated, the fact that you've done something perverted, it ought to disqualify you forever from the ministry. Yeah, even if you, even if you, even if you were stupid enough to believe that you could fix these pedophiles and rehabilitate them, then why can't they just go get a job at the auto parts store or something? Why can't they just get a job, you know, collecting trash? Although that job is, you know, I don't even want them at the auto parts. I don't want them picking up my trash. But what kind of a crazy person would put them in the ministry? But being in the ministry, a pastor, whatever, I mean, that is a, that is a position of trust. And these people, they've got to be held to a higher standard. And it is not asking too much to just have a zero tolerance policy with these people and, you know, deal harshly with it. Make sure that it's known who they are. It's known what they did and make sure that they are never in a position of trust again. And I think, you know, it's time, you know, law enforcement even does something about it because some of these people too have been convicted of things and yet they're still, I mean, I don't know if I want law enforcement to get involved in what's going on in churches, but good night when it comes to perverts, they need to do something. They need to do something with these people. Well, I thought, I mean, isn't it already, I thought they already should, they should already have a policy that I thought these people are like registered sex offenders. And because here's the thing, we had a guy show up at our church two months ago and he walked into the church and he wanted to talk to me, but I didn't have time to talk to him. So, you know, I had him talk to one of my staff members, brother Chris Segura. And, and he told brother Chris Segura, well, legally, I have to tell you guys that I'm a registered sex offender. I have to warn you guys about that, you know, um, and, and apparently he'd been convicted of some pedophile offense and, and, and Chris Segura just threw him out and told him to never come back and then he cannot attend. But, but, but I mean, apparently by law, this guy had to declare that to us so that we would know to keep him away from children. But maybe that's just Arizona or I don't know. Right. Well, and a lot of this too, it's people who were like adulterers and things like that, you know, that didn't do anything that was technically illegal, but you know, immoral, whatever. And they, they're often, you know, look, if you're committing adultery with someone else's wife in the church, okay, you should never be in the ministry again. That is, that is horrific. Leviticus 20 verse 10 says that the person who lays with his neighbor's wife should surely be put to death. I mean, that's a horrible offense and it's, it's predatory. If they were using a position of power to do it, it's sort of like when Bill Clinton used the fact that he's a president in order to get favors from an intern. Okay. That's considered wicked and immoral, even by the world, even by people who are okay with fornication and are okay with adultery. When someone's in a position of power or authority, like a teacher, a professor, a pastor, a staff member of a church, a manager, a president of a company, then, and then they use that to commit adultery with someone's wife. I mean, that is just so horrific. And obviously the pedophiles are a no brainer. The old IP, some of them aren't even stupid enough to take the pedophiles out of the ministry, but you know, they at least need good night. How can they not, if somebody's committing adultery, they should never be pastor again. That should be a no brainer. Yeah. It seems pretty cut and dry and simple to me, but unfortunately, uh, everybody, everybody's all we, you know, we gotta, we gotta restore these people. You know, they're, they're under satanic attack. I just heard him say about this one guy, uh, you know, and he said, I still don't know the specifics. I don't want to say anything, but they were like talking about this demonic attack that took place. But the thing is, he's the one that's the thing. They're not talking about it. Like, you know, you know, the demonic attack was on what he did. You know, it's like, you know, the demons, uh, you know, they're, they're attacking him and like, he's the victim because he's really such a good guy. So the devil's trying to attack him pretty much. You know, he's got a great big target on his back cause all he's doing for the Lord and me mad, but they do, man, they, they go into these stupid platitudes and things and you know, but for the grace of God, there go I speak for yourself. And you know what any pastor who says, but for the grace of God, there go, I just take his word for it. Yeah. That guy. Yeah. That guy is on that path or close. You know, when they get up and say, Oh, well we could all end up going to speak for yourself. Freak. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. I mean, there's, there's sins out there that I got to guard myself on, but that's just, that's not one of them. And I worry about these people that act like it's a normal thing and you know, it could happen to anybody. We all, we all have, we let our guard down for one moment. You know, it could, it could happen. Yeah. We all have a propensity to sin. We all have temptations to sin, but you know what? When you see a man who's 50 years old, praying upon a teenager or even praying upon children and that's not normal. That's just bizarre. No. Well, just remember, and such were some of you. That's their go-to verse. You know, they had child predators and Paul's day in church. Right. Yeah. Whatever. It's like, shut up, you idiots. Just, just anything to not have to do something that's unpopular. Yeah. Because once again, people get emotional, they love the assistant pastor, you know, they, but man, sometimes you just have to do the right thing. And that's why it helps a lot. If you make these decisions ahead of time, you know, just arc it down, run your mouth about it. That way there's no turning back that if it turns out you're a pervert, you're gone. You're his. Well, I want to scare off the freaks anyway, because if the freaks know going in, Hey, if you pull this crap at our church, you're going, you're going to get turned over to the police and you're going to be publicly exposed and blackballed on the internet. Then hopefully they're just going to pick another church because I want my kids and my church to be safe. And I want it to be known there's zero tolerance and horrible things will happen to you. If you are a pedophile and you try to creep in, you are messing with the wrong people. That needs to be the message that we send. Right. Old IFB is sending a message, come on in perverts, roll out the red carpet and whatever. Right. And the thing is to me, if they try anything around here, you know, they need to know that if, if they get caught, we're not calling the police until we've, you know, done all we can to physically stop them. And we just might go a little overboard. Yeah. I mean, you, you know, you're going to use a lot of force, whatever force is necessary to stop them from, from abusing a child. Amen. Exactly. So you're going to use reasonable and prudent force. I trust your judgment over there. I'm sure you guys are going to, going to, uh, you know, keep it with you, keep it restrained, you know, to, and hint wink, wink, not, not, we'll see what happens. All right, man. It was great talking to you. I think I'm going to take a few more calls before we call it a night, but, uh, thanks for coming on. Thanks for having the info. And you know, people ought to be outraged, you know, and you know, that there's some bozo sitting at home right now. Like, Oh, why are you so mad? Why are you so angry? Why are you so, you know, if this stuff doesn't make you mad, there's something wrong with you. Okay. You're a pervert. Yeah. It went when children are being abused and their lives are being ruined. Okay. Anybody who has children and loves their children is going to be shocked and horrified and want blood. Okay. And, and don't come at me with your, with your oozing dripping, you're just so forgiving of every freak and pedophile. You're probably a pervert yourself. If you sympathize with these devils, that is not what the Bible teaches. The Bible is crystal clear. How God feels about these people and how we should feel about these people. These are not your garden variety sinners. These are evil, reprobate, God-hating devils, and the Bible is crystal clear in Old and New Testament, what they have coming to them. But man, it was great talking to you. Thanks for all the info and the great insight. Yep. I will put all their Twitter names on the comments as soon as I'm able to, and hammer them on Twitter. They can't take the heat. No, they can't. All right. God bless you. Thanks for being on. Yeah. These people, they, they, they can't take the heat. They don't like the light being shined on them because they have so many skeletons. They have so much to hide. And, you know, look folks, we've all sinned and come short of the glory of God. There's none righteous, no, not one, but folks, this isn't just sin. This is violent crime. This is the worst filth and perversion, and it has to be dealt with and, and sweeping it under the rug. Leave that to the dress wearing guy who calls himself father and dresses like his mother in the Roman Catholic Church. All right, let's take another call. Yes, Pastor Anderson's here. How you doing? Hey, I'm doing well. I have a quick comment and a quick question. It's about Genesis 1 31. Everything God created was initially very good, and things only went wrong when the devil rebelled against the creator. My question is, God created everything good, including Lucifer. And you know why Lucifer, because of pride, wanted to ascend to be like God. My question is, how? What, what, what put that in his thought if no sin had ever been committed? How was he able to, you know, as a created angel, as an arch, archangel, come up with that thought to want to even try? Well, you know, there's a verse in Ecclesiastes that comes to mind where the Bible says that God has made man upright, but they have sought out many inventions. And so, because God gave man free will and obviously gave Lucifer and other angels free will as well, then, you know, they made that choice. So, you know, this is kind of like a super deep philosophical question of, you know, where did evil come from, the problem of evil in this world? You know, I don't spend a lot of time thinking about that because, you know, I would rather stick with what's revealed in God's Word and not try to delve into the mysteries of what's not revealed. Since the Bible doesn't explain that, I'm not going to seek to explain it, and it's not going to keep me up at night wondering where evil came from. All I know is that God created everything, everything that God does is right, but He also creates beings that are capable of making their own choices, and so they have the capability to do either good or evil. Some choose to do good, some choose to do evil, some choose to believe on Christ, some choose not to believe on Christ. You know, He creates the potential, but He does not. He's not the author of evil. He's not the author of wicked things. I got you. That's about as far as I'd go with it, yeah. But hey, God bless you. Thanks, man. Thanks for the call. All right, 480-465-1203. Yes, Pastor Anderson here. How you doing? Hey, how you doing, Pastor? A couple quick questions. First and foremost, with the heretic and the false prophet that's preaching damnable heresy, are they completely aware that they are preaching damnable heresy, and is there intent to damn people to hell? I believe that in most cases, yes, they know what they are doing. They know that they are not doing what's right. Now, I don't know that their main motivation is necessarily to damn people to hell, because one motivation that we see coming up a lot in Scripture is that they teach things which they ought not for filthy lucre's sake, or they have eyes full of adultery, and they want to use their position of power in order to commit adultery, to steal money, to just get a paycheck, or whatever. So there are a lot of options for why they're doing what they do. It could just be that they love the fame and glory of being like a Joel Osteen or a Rick Warren, you know, being popular. Everybody thinks you're great, you know, being this lying false prophet. But I think that some of them are just evil and just enjoy hurting people, and they're predators, and they want to damn people, and they want to hurt them in this life, and I think many of them are just pure evil. Now, there are some who preach that which is false ignorantly, you know, they do it ignorantly. They're sincere, but they're sincerely wrong, but I think that's the minority. I think most of them do know what they're doing. Gotcha. And also, I'd like to ask, in terms of the old IFB, just had a great conversation with Pastor McMurtry about the old IFB and some of the wickedness that's going on, but one of the things I've heard is the, you know, love the sinner, hate the sin, or church is a hospital. Well, if that's the case, then to love the sinner, to tell the sinner that what they're doing is wicked or filthy or that it's a hospital, then, you know, you have to have strong medicine. How come they say that, but then they won't preach, you know, the verses that are, you know, that are against whether it's the homosexual, the drunker, the fornicator, the adulterer, and stuff like that? If they're saying, oh, love the sinner, hate the sin, or this is a hospital, don't you have to use the strong meat of the word? Yeah, great. I mean, that's, you know, those are great points. Amen. I couldn't have said it better myself. They need, if it's a hospital, let's break out the strong medicine, because, you know, when somebody's coming in with a serious disease, they're going to have to get hit with some hard treatments. But here's the thing, it's a hospital, but it's not a morgue for the twice dead, okay? So this isn't Weekend at Bernie's or something, where we just want to hang around with a bunch of dead bodies and prop them up, people that are dead and will never live again, and we're just going to act like they're alive or something, and dress them up and prop them up as they rot and decompose and stink up the joint. So yeah, it's a hospital, but it's not a morgue, and yeah, it's a hospital, let's break out the strong medicine. I like it. Awesome. Thank you very much. Thank you. Sounds like a sermon right there. It sounds like a good title for a sermon, strong medicine. I like it. Yes, Pastor Anderson here. How you doing? Oh, I'm doing great. Thanks for taking my call. I had a question about, you know, the passage in Luke 16, I think it is, where the gulf between Lazarus and the abridged man, and how some people would use this to say that paradise or the heaven is at the same location in the center of the earth, but there's a divide between them, and that would also make sense in the sort of thing of, like, when Jesus says to the man on the cross that, um, today I will be with you in paradise, because Jesus went to hell when He died, but the man on the cross went to heaven, and so I was just wondering what your take on, like, where the location of heaven is based on that. I don't believe that there's ever been any kind of paradise or heaven in the center of the earth near hell whatsoever. I don't believe in that for one second. It doesn't make sense. There's too much scripture that would go against that. The Bible clearly says in Acts 2 31 that Jesus' soul was in hell, and, um, that's what I believe. As far as today shalt thou be with me in paradise, Jesus Christ being divine transcends time, and so, uh, John 3 13, when Jesus is talking to Nicodemus, He said, no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of Man, which is in heaven. So, you know, because God transcends time, Jesus also, uh, in a sense transcends time, and so He can also be in more than one place at the same time, because the Bible talks about people that are burning in the lake of fire as being tormented in the presence of the Lamb, but then we also know that the Lamb is also, you know, seated at the right hand of the Father. So also when Jesus is walking the earth, anybody who's saved and believed in Him during His 30 years, 33 years on the earth, you know, they're going to go to to heaven and be with Him, right? So that entire time He's on the earth, He's, where are saved people going? Are they going to be with Jesus when they get to heaven, or they're just going to wait for Him to get back? So do you think, like, um, that's sort of just that being in two places at once, that, uh, during that instance from hell you can see heaven? Now here's, here's what I think about that instance. So that, you know, I didn't answer your question about Luke 16 yet, I was just kind of giving those thoughts, so let me actually answer your question about Luke 16. In Luke 16, you have a man in hell who lifts up his eyes and sees Abraham afar off, and he has this conversation with Abraham, this back and forth. Now I guess the people who believe in this two-compartment theory, they would have us to believe that everybody in hell is just kind of hanging out right next to the border, and Abraham and Lazarus and people like that are just kind of hanging out, and they're just kind of yelling back and forth, uh, to people from hell, and, you know, this is not a regular occurrence. In order for people, think, think about it, hell is a place of weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth. How could you even be heard above all that screaming? How can you see Abraham afar off when you're in total darkness? Okay, obviously this is just a supernatural occurrence because the guy first got to hell, he just got to hell, so he's basically having this encounter kind of explaining to him why he's there and what's happening and, and just this conversation is happening. So this is a supernatural occurrence, this isn't just an everyday occurrence where everybody's just kind of hanging out by this gulf. If there's a great gulf, they wouldn't be able to normally talk over that great gulf because how could you be heard with all the other noise and things going on? This conversation isn't just going on all day every day, this is just a conversation that supernaturally was allowed to take place, and the great gulf is the great gulf between heaven and hell. You're sitting in it, you're sitting in that great gulf right now, there's a great gulf between heaven and hell, but God supernaturally allowed them to communicate briefly so that we could get this scripture, but it's not just all day every day people are banging for a drop of water and Abraham just keeps telling people no. I mean, you think Abraham's just telling people no all day every day, like, no, you can't have any water, no, you can't come over here. It's like a one-time deal. All right, thank you, that answered my question. Yep, no problem, God bless you. Yeah, there's too much clear scripture about hell being in the heart of the earth, being down, being in the center of the earth, depths of the earth, nether parts of the earth, and about heaven being upward, and paradise being upward, he was caught up to paradise, on and on and on. Even in the Old Testament, Elijah was caught up to heaven in a fiery chariot, the spirit of man goeth upward in ecclesiastes on and on. Yes, Pastor Anderson here, how you doing? Hi, this is Jared from Verity Baptist Church. Hey, how's it going? Good. Yeah, I have a, I was gonna call you on the Lutheran caller, but I have one quick comment on that. My very first, I grew up Lutheran, but my very first IFP I went to, there was actually a child molester in that church, and we found out about it, my wife and I found out about it, and then when a new pastor came in, we let him know that this guy was in his church, and I kept bringing it up to the guy, and he made all kinds of rules about things this guy could and couldn't do, and the pastor knew that I wanted this guy out of the church, and he actually said to me with tears in his eyes, at one point when he was at my house at dinner, well where was he supposed to go to church, he said, and I just said, you know, somewhere else. Yeah, exactly. You know, that was my comment, but that just shows, you know, to me it shows the importance of why God has the reprobate doctrine in the Bible. Amen, because the question of where's this guy supposed to go to church? Nowhere. He's a pedophile, he's a reprobate, he's doomed. Exactly. So God would never, God said the gates of hell would not prevail against His church. Why would He send people into His church to destroy the children when Jesus Himself talked so highly about the children, and how He just loved the little children, and what— He would never do it. God is a logical God. He loves children. He loves us. It just proves the reprobate doctrine, and if you don't teach it and you don't preach it, you will end up with these people in your church, period. Amen, and you know what? The reprobate doctrine is a great doctrine, and that's why I'm not going to apologize for it. I'm not going to hide it. I'm not going to beat around the bush about it. Hey, I've made it plain. That's why I'm banned from 33 countries, and I'm working on my 34th country ban right now. It's in the pipeline. Stay tuned. But you know what? I don't care if people don't like it. People can go whine and cry about what I told the BBC reporter or whatever. Go jump in a lake, and while you're at it, tie a millstone around your neck. Exactly. Amen. All right. God bless you, my friend. I'll see you soon. Thank you. God bless you. 480-465-1203. Yes, Pastor Anderson here. How you doing? I'm doing good. How are you? Great. Yes, I have two questions, actually. In John 7-38, it says, So my question is, I went through the whole New Testament in the past, and I looked up every time the New Testament quoted the Old Testament, and that was, I think, the only thing I couldn't find and I just wanted to know what you thought about it, if you found it, or what your explanation is for what it says as the Scripture has said. You know, I don't know this one off the top of my head. It's a great question. It's definitely one of my favorite verses. I'm always quoting this John 7-38 and 39, but actually, I don't think I've ever looked it up. I don't know if anybody out there has the answer. Maybe we could just Google it. Let me see if I can just Google it real quick, because I don't know of the reference off the top of my head, and I've never looked it up before, and since I don't really have time to actually search the Scriptures on my own, I'm just gonna Google it, all right? Yeah, I'm just doing this just to see if there's an easy answer, but it looks like there's not an easy answer so far, because I wasn't sure if it was just going to pop up with some KJV verse that I could point you to. Well, I will have to look this up and get back to you, because I'm not sure. Thank you. The other question, I'd like to know what you think about Genesis 4 verse 7, where it's talking about Cain committing sin in comparison to Genesis 3 verse 16, because the end of the verses in Genesis 4 7, it says, And unto thee shall be his desire, talking about, I believe what it's talking about is sin being personified desire, and thou shalt rule over him. And it's very similar to the wording in Genesis 3 16, where it says, Thy desire shall be thy husband's. And now normally, you know, when you talk about sin for Cain, if you commit this sin, then you're going to rule over sin, is my understanding. No, I would say I would apply it to his brother Abel, because he's the older brother, and I think what it's just saying is that he's going to retain his preeminence as the older brother, and that he's going to have the rights and privileges of being the older brother. Sort of like where with Jacob and Esau, it says the elder shall serve the younger, which is like backwards, that basically Cain would have the preeminence, because this is a dispute between Cain and Abel, and so I think that the—and it's sometimes hard to tell with pronouns, like who's the he that it's referring to—but I don't think that sin's being personified. I think when it says unto thee shall be his desire, that's Abel, and thou shalt rule over him, that's Abel. Basically Abel's going to want to follow your leadership, and you're going to be the ruler, as opposed to you getting thrown out of the family and being a disgrace. Okay, that's good. Yeah, that makes sense. Have you ever thought about the connection of that verse to Genesis 3 16? Yeah, I have thought about it, because it's kind of odd on its face, but I think if you think about it that way, then it kind of clicks and makes sense. So yeah, it's a great observation. All right, God bless you, my friend. Thanks for calling. Hey, Pastor. I think the author of the book of Enoch may have taken advantage of this opportunity, because I think— 738 or what? Yeah, I think it says that it's quoted out of the book of Enoch. Yeah, whenever there's a quote that people can't find or a book that's referred to that no longer exists, somebody's always ready to jump in and write that scripture, you know, and build a scripture around it, and I'm sure that there's some fake scriptures out there that are trying to insert this John 738. I'll dig into this and come up with an answer on that. Well anyway, we're just about out of time, so God bless everybody. Thanks for tuning in, and appreciate you watching the program. Appreciate all the great calls, a lot of great questions, and I think there was a lot of great material, especially in the segment with Brother McMurtry just being able to, you know, blow the whistle on these people that are disgracing the name of Christ and disgracing the name of being a Baptist. So let's take it back for the Baptists, that the Baptists actually hate and are disgusted by pedophilia, and we're not going to put up with this garbage, and we're going to stand against it. Also don't forget, tomorrow night, Pastor Bruce Mejia ordination in Los Angeles, California. Be there or be square. God bless you, and have a great night.