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🎵Music🎵 Chances have persecuted me without a cause But my heart standeth in awe of thy word I rejoice at thy word As one that findeth great spoil, great peace Have faith with all that all And nothing shall offend them Lord, I hope for thy salvation And done thy commandments And done thy commandments I hate and oppose lying But by law do I love Seven times a day do I praise thee Because of thy righteous judgments Great peace have they which was their law And nothing shall offend them Lord, I hope for thy salvation And done thy commandments And done thy commandments My soul have kept thy testimonies And I love them exceedingly I have kept thy precepts and thy testimonies For all my ways are before great peace Have faith with all that all And nothing shall offend them Lord, I hope for thy salvation And done thy commandments 🎵Music🎵 🎵Music🎵 🎵Music🎵 🎵Music🎵 🎵Music🎵 🎵Music🎵 🎵Music🎵 🎵Music🎵 🎵Music🎵 🎵Music🎵 🎵Music🎵 🎵Music🎵 🎵Music🎵 I have remembered thy name, O Lord In the night and hath kept thy law This I have because I kept thy precepts Thy precepts Remember thy word unto thy servants For it has cost me to hope 🎵Music🎵 🎵Music🎵 🎵Music🎵 🎵Music🎵 🎵Music🎵 🎵Music🎵 🎵Music🎵 🎵Music🎵 🎵Music🎵 🎵Music🎵 🎵Music🎵 🎵Music🎵 The truth about Zionism appears to have finally leaked out of the underground tunnels of legacy media. I can't believe it was under our nose this entire time. Now, many influencers have begun to question if our number one ally is really actually our friend. Like Candace Owens, who's clearly left the plantation, going scorched earth like Django One Chain, but will she be able to continue to fight or repeatedly fall on the ground like Rodney King? Viral moments like hashtag ban the ADL have taken Twitter by storm, but it appears Elon has kind of put the brakes on rising anti-Semitism by restricting phrases like the Synagogue of Satan. Even with increasing censorship, the noticing continues about who owns the banks, colleges, the Federal Reserve, the Presidential Cabinet, NGOs, Hollywood, social media companies, the pharmaceutical industry, political lobby efforts, the Libs of TikTok account, the Babylon Bee, the Daily Wire, Wall Street, well, pretty much everything you can think of, and they all wear a tiny little hat on their head. I guess it's hard not to notice these people when they're breathing in so much free air with that giant schnoz on their face or the pigtails dangling on their head or the blasphemy against Jesus Christ. Why is it that Christians think these people are God's chosen again? Oh yeah, Greg Locke, because he said so. The apostle who literally ran off with the secretary. I forgot about that chapter in the book of Acts. I must have missed it somewhere. Well, I guess if you're one of those skeptics who doesn't want to murder Palestinian babies, someone who doesn't spit when you hear the name of Jesus Christ, someone who actually loves free speech, fairness, truth, the New Testament, you appear to be someone who's actually been radicalized with the Baptist bias. Thanks for tuning in to The Baptist Bias. It's season four, we've made it, and it seems like the Jews might own everything. Do they own The Baptist Bias, Ben? Seemingly, they own the platform we're on, I think, actually, but let's not focus on that too much. Well, of course, we had a great in-between our series, the Daniel series, where it was 12 episodes with a bonus 13th where we talked, or we had Pastor Anderson talk about a summary rightly dividing the book of Daniel, and it got a lot of good feedback. I think a lot of people enjoyed that series, even considering the fact that it was about five or six years old, but it seemed fresh, and I really appreciate all the work you did there on this series, Ben. It really turned out nicely, but it was definitely a bear. A lot of hours had to go into that thing. Was it more than you thought when you started working on it? Yeah, initially I was thinking like, ah, this should be easy. It's a sermon, you slap some B-roll on there, you slap some Bible screens on there, you're good to go, and then you realize, hold on a second, there's 13 hours to this. That's a lot. Yeah, this is a bigger project than I thought, so a bigger undertaking than I anticipated, but I'm glad it's finished. Finally, years in the making. You mentioned, a number of years old now, 2018 is when the sermons were recorded, but they were evergreen messages, and I think if you go through the series yourself, you'll notice that evergreen messages with actual modern B-roll, some modern articles and things like that happening in the last few years, like even 2023, 2024, and yet they were still relevant to what Pastor Itterson was saying, just goes to show you that the Bible is always relevant. Well, and thank you to everyone who donated that project, and also to Paul Wittenberger for filming it and giving it to us so we could work on that. And then of course, to the star of the show, Pastor Itterson, which we're actually graced with his presence again this evening. Thank you Pastor Itterson for coming on the show, how's it going? I don't know if we, you might have been cut off there, you want to say that again? It's great to be here, thanks for having me on. There we go, alright, perfect. That's the intro we were waiting for. We were nervous. We couldn't get the show going without that. Well thanks again for coming on here, and how did you feel about the Daniel series? Yeah, I loved it. I was really impressed by Ben's work, and I really appreciate him and you of course making this a reality after all these years. I put a lot of thought into the series as far as the study that went into it. I really wanted it to kind of be up there with the Revelation series as far as content, and so I put a lot of work into the messages, and so I'm glad that they're now getting a wider audience. You know, just because that's what I was hoping for whenever I preached those sermons. So, better late than never, huh? Was there a better, was there an episode that you kind of thought like this is the one that I was maybe most excited to get out there, or kind of your favorite of the series? Probably episodes seven and eight I believe were the ones that were the most important, but really I think that the key sermon is the sermon rightly dividing the book of Daniel that I preached at Verity Baptist Church in Sacramento that thirteenth episode. I think that is kind of the key to everything, and I think that it's important that this series come out right now because I know a lot of people are going over to partial Preterist views or full Preterist views of end times, and I feel like this series just absolutely destroys Preterism, and obviously there's some truth to Preterism because all lies have some truth mixed in, but the Daniel series ends up showing people the errors of Preterism and helps us to stay strong on our futurist beliefs about the end times. When it comes to chapter eleven, it seems like that was kind of a big chapter. Also maybe the ending of chapter nine, those kind of have some significance when it comes to maybe dismantling a little bit of the Preterist views. What about from your perspective, Ben, was there kind of an episode that you thought you enjoyed more than the others or was more influential to you? Chapter eleven, without question, because I really had no idea what chapter eleven was about at all, reading through it, especially the first time I was lost, and Pastor Ederson, you were able to put the pieces together for me, especially on some of the, kind of the beginning portion is what I should say there, the beginning half of that chapter that really deals with the Grecian Empire getting split into those four separate kingdoms and the near future application to go along with that, I didn't know a lot of that history, so that was very helpful. And then of course, when you end up talking about Antiochus Epiphanes, yeah, a lot of that stuff was fulfilled with him, but when you study the character, I guess I should say the personality of Antiochus Epiphanes, it gives you some insight into who the Antichrist will be in the end times, of course due to the fact that there is some dual fulfillment going on there, so overall I would say chapter eleven for me personally, because I learned so much about it, it just unlocked the chapter for me. You know, one thing that I don't know if we necessarily have talked about, but I'm just kind of curious when it comes to the idea of Zionism specifically, it seems like when we talk about end times and just kind of views, a lot of people like to go to the book of Daniel, but I'm kind of just curious, do you feel like there's a lot of people like Zionists that use the book of Daniel to kind of support or bolster their view in supporting end times Israel, Pastor Anderson? Yeah, absolutely. I think that just in general, Zionists love to go to the Old Testament because they're basically going to scriptures that were written back when the Jews were God's chosen people, back when Israel was that chosen nation, and so of course they love to take those out of context and anachronistically apply them to today instead of being in the New Testament where we see over and over again that the kingdom of God has been taken from them and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof, and of course that new spiritual nation that replaces Israel is one that's made up of believers on the Lord Jesus Christ from all nations, kindreds, families, tongues. It's got nothing to do with race or ethnicity or geography. The holy nation, the chosen generation, the royal priesthood in the New Testament is just made up of all Christians, made up of all believers, and so in order to preach Zionism, you're going to have to spend a ton of time in the Old Testament because that's where you're going to get all your material because you can take it out of context and misapply it by bringing it into today instead of actually understanding it in its context back then. The only New Testament scripture that you'll typically hear in a Zionist sermon is Romans 11. They'll typically bombard you with a bunch of Old Testament stuff that's totally ripped out of its original context where it'll be Old Testament scriptures about the Jews coming back from the Babylonian captivity and then they'll apply that to them coming into the land in 1948. They just completely ignore the fact that these scriptures are being written before the return from Babylon and that that's clearly what they're about and they just act like, well, these have to be about 1948. It's like there's nothing else they could be about. Totally ignoring the biblical history of the passages that they're preaching. And then, of course, the classic, they'll go to Romans 11, which ironically is one of the strongest chapters against Zionism and it's a very strong chapter that proves that the Christ-rejecting Jews are no longer God's chosen people, but they'll typically just focus on like four or five verses out of context. They're not going to get the whole chapter because the first part of the chapter just absolutely destroys their doctrine. So that's pretty much, if any preachers out there are putting together a Zionist sermon for this Sunday, here's the formula. You get a bunch of Old Testament passages about coming back from the Babylonian captivity. You wrongly apply them to 1948 and then the only New Testament passage you use is Romans 11 and you ignore 30, 40 other passages that completely negate Zionism in the New Testament. Yeah, in your sermon, Rightly Dividing the Book of Daniel, I think you kind of covered the idea of interpreting Bible prophecy correctly and of course there's a lot of Old Testament passages that bring up the return to Jerusalem, especially from the Babylonian captivity specifically. I'm kind of curious from your perspective, what are some of the most mis-abused verses or what are some of the passages that people like to twist as far as a return to the Babylonian from the Babylonian captivity that's kind of being applied to 1948 specifically? Is there any on the top of your head that you could think of? Yeah, I mean the first thing that would pop into my mind would of course be scriptures from the book of Jeremiah, scriptures from the book of Ezekiel. I don't have them in front of me but there are a lot of passages where God's talking about the fact that he's going to bring them back. Hosea is another big one. Again, I don't have the exact references in front of me but there are a lot because that's kind of a major theme in the Old Testament history. So I could pull some up if you give me a second. You bring that up like Jeremiah 30. This is when I feel like I hear in verse 7. It says, Alas, for that day is great, so that none is like it. It is even the time of Jacob's trouble, but he shall be saved out of it. I feel like I hear about that quite a bit, this idea of quote Jacob's trouble and them being saved. And I think most of the time, correct me if I'm wrong, most of the time they're kind of applying that to maybe a Romans 11 type interpretation or in the end time just like everybody in Israel is going to be saved. Is that kind of what you hear Ben? I think when I hear about Jacob's trouble or the time of Jacob's trouble for Jeremiah 30 verse 7, what I picture is this idea that the seven year tribulation period, which of course we know it's three and a half years, followed by 75 days of great tribulation. But my point is they believe that that seven year period is the time of Jacob's trouble. It's a time of tribulation just for the Jews. And then as you mentioned, at the end of that seven year period, they will magically be converted at, I presume, the battle of Armageddon when they look on him whom they pierced, ripping Zechariah out of context and misapplying Zechariah. So that's the one that pops into my mind. And Pastor Anderson brought up Ezekiel. It's kind of funny because I believe one of the chapters that the Zionists love is chapter 37, the Valley of Dry Bones, which is clearly a reference to a future resurrection. And you can make the connection there to John chapter 5 where Jesus Christ said, The hour is coming and now is when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God and they that hear shall live. So that's one from Ezekiel that I've heard as well that they really like. Yeah, absolutely. And you know, the Ezekiel 37 passage, like you said, it's about the resurrection, the regeneration, the second coming of Christ. And here's what you have to understand about dual fulfillment of Bible prophecy because of course, yeah, things that already happened in the past, in the Old Testament, things that are already fulfilled, they can still have a future fulfillment in the end times. But here's the thing, in order for something to have a dual fulfillment, then the two events have to have something in common with one another. And so in the Old Testament, when you have the children of Israel coming back from the Babylonian captivity, the key thing is that they got right with God. And that's why he's bringing them back to the land because now they've been cured of their idolatry. They're not worshiping graven images. They're not worshiping false gods. They're ready to trust in the Lord now. That's why they get to come back into the land. Okay. And then for a while, they're actually doing right by God. They're serving the Lord. Obviously they're not perfect, but in general, they're worshiping the true God. Compare that with 1948 where you have people who totally reject the Lord Jesus Christ, hate the Lord Jesus Christ. They do not believe that Jesus is the Messiah, which according to 1 John chapter 2 makes them anti-Christ. And then you have them coming into the land. And then that's supposedly this wonderful fulfillment of prophecy. It's just like in the old days when God would fight for Israel and God's got Israel's back. But of course, anyone who doesn't believe on Jesus Christ has God's wrath abiding on them, not God's blessing. But we're supposed to believe that somehow people who reject the Lord Jesus Christ, as long as they're Jews, they somehow have the blessing of God resting upon them. It's an absurd false doctrine. It has no basis in reality. But one of the ways that this was sold to us, especially with passages like Ezekiel 37, was that supposedly he's going to bring them into the land in unbelief and then once they get there, they're going to get saved. Because that's how these Zionists in the 20th century explained the significance of a bunch of Christ-rejecting Jews coming back into the Promised Land. It's like, well, they're going to get saved later. They're going to believe in Jesus Christ later. First they come to the land and then they'll go back to Ezekiel and they'll find these passages like Ezekiel 37 where they're basically like the Israelites are dead, but then it's like they come back to life. Now we know that the proper interpretation of Ezekiel 37 is a literal resurrection, literal dead bodies coming back to life. Because it's about the second coming of Christ, the resurrection, and so forth. Like a literal resurrection when people come out of the graves, you know, the dead in Christ shall rise first, and all that. 1 Thessalonians 4. But what they will interpret it as is that God brings unbelievers into the land, then he breathes life into them, then he gives them a new heart, then they turn to Christ. And all throughout the 20th century, this was always just right around the corner. So pastors would always talk about how these revivals in Israel are just starting and a whole bunch of Jews are getting saved. And this is before the internet, so you couldn't really fact check these claims. And so you were just always throughout the 80s and 90s, and you know, I can't speak to before that because I was born in 1981. But in the 80s and 90s, it's like you always heard these sort of rumors about how revivals breaking out in Israel and how it's all happening and it's right around the corner and a whole bunch of Jews are going to get saved. And then it's going to, boom, roll into the end times and all this stuff. But yet now, here we are in 2024, and virtually everyone from that generation that came into the land in 1948 is dead. And guess what? They're in hell, okay, because they did not believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. This isn't a complicated doctrine, folks. If you don't believe that Jesus is the Son of God, if you don't believe he's the Messiah, you go to hell when you die. And so the Jews, by definition, reject the Lord Jesus Christ as the Messiah. Otherwise, they wouldn't be Jews. They'd be Christians. By definition, they are anti-Christ. By definition, they are not saved. So you're telling me that Theodor Herzl didn't get saved and Jacob Rothschild and all of these individuals? I mean, that breaks my heart to think all of these Christ-rejecting Jews didn't get in there. But the reality is, I don't see how Zionism can continue to make sense. What's the point of bringing unsaved people to any part of geography of the world if they're still going to die there? I mean, the Bible makes it abundantly clear, what does it profit a man if he gained the whole world and yet lose his own soul? So even if we did put the Jews in the Middle East and give them a palace and give them everything they could possibly want but they still die and go to hell, I don't see how that benefits that individual or is fulfilling any of these verses that we've been bringing up. But even unsaved Catholics and other individuals have been noticing this. I want to play a clip from Candace Owens, which she's a Catholic, but it's kind of crazy how Catholics can see through a lot of these lies and Christians don't. Before I play that clip, I also want to make a couple other quick announcements. You can call in this evening, 231-Babdis, and we'll be taking some calls later in the show. Also, we had made some t-shirts, and we have a couple different colors and designs here, but we have the Babdis Bias t-shirts, and we have them in black, we have them in green, and we even have a dark brown one. And what we're doing is we're going to do a special promotion. We're going to be putting it on our website to where someone can order one or get one if you want, but before we get that set up, we still have an ability to send these out. And so if you'd like one, what you can do is you can join our locals. I think it's like five bucks a month or if you can do more if you want, but if you sign up for our locals this week, and you email me, just email me your address and shirt size, we'll send you a Babdis Bias t-shirt that you can have. And so that's just kind of a special promotion we're going to do. Also, again, you can call in 231-Babdis, but I want to play this clip of Candace here for a moment and then get some of your thoughts. So let's go ahead and play that clip. And I really wish the Jewish community had listened to me on that, because it seems that the over usage of the term anti-Semitism is leading us to a place that we should discuss. Pastor Greg Locke, you have a congregation of over 1,200 people, 4 million YouTube subscribers. What message would you give to Candace Owens? I want Candace to understand that if you're going to call yourself a biblical Christian, then you have to believe the biblical mandate. And the biblical mandate over and over, matter of fact, hundreds of times, is that we are to stand with, love, and support the people of God, the Jewish nation. They're really the Jewish nation, and the Bible has so much to say about that. So to say that you're either someone who believes the Bible, or you're a Christian, or you're a conservative, that simply means that you are going to have to repent of what you have said, or at least come out and tell us who you really are. Because at the end of the day, real Christians stand with the people of God. Now, I think that this is coming from some of Candace's other previous statements. Do you remember what she said, Ben? Well, I mean, she was questioning the idea that the Jews are the special class of people that are the apple of God's eye. She questioned the Holocaust, I believe. She questioned America's unrelenting support for Israel politically. Well, she questioned 1948, didn't she? 1948, yeah. So obviously, when you start making statements like that, and asking questions like that, it's going to rattle cages, and that's what happened this week. I think that there's another, I don't know if we have, do we have another clip from some of your research? Okay. I want to play one other clip from her, and then I want to comment on Greg Locke's things. There's another one where she's wearing like a black hat or something. I don't know if you can pull that one up. She talks about us being an occupied nation. And, you know, she's really been blowing up the internet a little bit. Let's see. It should be... I'll post it in there again. It's in there, but just a little bit further down. We'll give our crew just a second to pull the other clip up. But when it comes to, you know, this issue, she's a pretty popular person. I think she has about four or five million followers on maybe Twitter or Instagram, or vice versa. She was on the Daily Wire, which was owned by Ben Shapiro. And I think just by saying that she didn't want Palestinian children to be slaughtered, she got fired. And then since then, she became Catholic. Then after that, she was questioning, you know, the Holocaust and a lot of other things. So now it's just like almost everybody seems to be condemning her. Even Tim Ballard. I saw that the guy from Sound of Freedom came out and kind of spoke against Candace. But let's see if we can play this clip. She's actually worried she's going to die, I think. Do you think it's normal, by the way, that basically every person who speaks about Israel has to basically say a statement that's like, you know, I don't want to get killed? Like, like, literally, you know, speaking about people are like, Candace, beef up your security. That's not fucking normal. Excuse my language. But like, that is not normal. Okay. It's not normal that people have to think about their security. Because and by then, the way that you get comfortable with it is you're like, well, you know, they shot JFK in an open car. So there's not, I mean, he's the same president. I mean, obviously, my spirit doesn't really matter. If they want me, they're gonna get me. That's not a normal thought process to have. We don't have that about any other country in the world, except for the one that, you know, took over ours. And that's the truth. Okay. We are an occupied nation. And if it's going to take women, like having to speak up and say that to make permission, like to give permission to men to do the same, then I'm happy to be the first person. Okay. I just want to be clear. Anything happens to me, blame the Zionists. Like 1000% blame the Zionists. Like, let that be my parting word. So she's saying that if she dies, blame the Zionists. Pull up Greg Locke's just Twitter. Just see if you can go there. I think we had we'd sent like a picture or something of some of his just his page. Yeah, there we go. Pull up some of this. This is this is what makes me mad. Okay. Because we get censored, the new IP gets censored, Pastor Anderson gets censored. It's almost like our viewpoint doesn't get out there. So then she makes this claim, like, I'll have to be the first one to say that, like our nation's occupied or talk about Jews or Holocaust. But it's like Pastor Anderson made a Holocaust video. I don't remember what the year was. I want to say. Do you remember the year like 2016 or 2017? Well, Marching Design came out in 2015. And so it had to be either 2015 or 16 because it was like right after. Yeah, it was it was part of, you know, promoting the film and explaining the film and and, you know, answering questions about the film and things like that. But in all fairness, I think you may have misunderstood what she said, because she was saying the first woman. She was trying to make a big deal about that. She was well, you know, I think that I think she was just acting like no one said she's giving permission to men. If she has to be the first one, she's like saying it's sad that women have to say it first. But I think she's kind of making it seem like she's the first one to get out there and talk about these issues. But she kind of lives in her own echo chamber a little bit, too. I think in The Daily Wire, she probably wasn't experiencing a lot of truth about Zionism in that particular echo chamber. Yeah, like, for example, you know, I remember back when I started Faith Forward Baptist Church, Christmas of 2005, I still didn't understand the truth about Israel. You know, I still had the Zionist viewpoint and believed that the Jews were God's chosen people and all those things, because that's what I was brought up with. And that teaching was just so ingrained in me that even though I had read the Bible so many times, I had literally read the Bible like 20 times, and I just was so stuck on that thing of the Jews being God's chosen people. And I remember when I first started to see the truth about it, which was around July of 2006, I'd never heard anyone as a Christian not be pro-Israel, supporting Israel, for Israel, totally Zionist. I'd never even heard of any Christians that didn't believe that the Jews were God's chosen people. And I spent like the next six months just reading my Bible two more times and just trying to make sure I wasn't missing something, because I was like, man, if I'm going to preach something so radical, because it felt radical at the time, now it doesn't feel radical, now it's just obvious, because it's just what the Bible says. I was like, man, I got to be 100% sure that I'm not wrong about this. I read the Bible two more times just looking for this one thing, and finally, I was ready to preach about it in December of 2006. But right before I did, there was a guy who was visiting my church, and he gave me a stack of cassette tapes from Dr. Roland Rasmussen, who's a pastor in Los Angeles. And I was listening to those cassette tapes, and in one of the cassette tapes, Pastor Rasmussen was actually preaching the truth about this. And I remember that kind of just boosted my confidence, like, oh, wow, I'm not the only one. Here is another sermon that's saying the same thing from an independent fundamental Baptist. And so the point of what I'm saying is that, yeah, sometimes we don't realize what's out there, because we do sometimes live in our own little world or our own echo chamber, or we're just around people who believe like us, or we're just around all people of one certain denomination. And whenever you find out the truth about something, of course, it turns out that there are millions of other people all along that knew the truth about it. But you sometimes feel like you're the only one. And so that's probably how she feels, because she's this, I don't really know anything about her or who she is, but I guess she's some kind of a conservative commentator or radio host or whatever she is. So, you know, I guess she's a conservative and conservatives are all for Israel. So, you know, she'd never heard of anybody not being for Israel. So she's just kind of this pioneer in her own mind. But I think we all kind of feel that way sometimes when we're, we're coming out of a really, you know, homogenous group of people on a certain doctrine, and we kind of go the other way. Yeah, and I mean, I think that marching to Zion made a big impact. Of course, you'd already preached things on that before, and I think that already kind of laid some groundwork. But marching to Zion reached a lot of people, and it really changed a lot of minds. And I think for Candace, she's probably only getting exposed to people like Greg Locke, which when you look at his Twitter, he's pulling up passages. He's like telling Charlie Kirk to rebuke Candace Owens or disown Candace Owens. There's another post also. See if you can pull this one up. Yeah, look at this. This is a real post. This is not like a parody. This is like a real post from Greg Locke where he just put like six million Israeli flags on his Twitter here. Yeah, but here's what you have to understand about Greg Locke, okay? Because I've actually watched Greg Locke over the years because I knew about Greg Locke even before he was well known at all because a lot of people may not realize this, but he actually started out as a King James Bible preaching fundamentalist Baptist that actually preached at churches that I've been to. So he was actually in the same movement that I was in of Independent Fundamental Baptists, and I remember Pastor Jimenez and I listening to his preaching literally 20 years ago or something, or actually more than that, like 20 some odd years ago, and we just thought that he was boring and lame. We didn't like him. But he was in that movement, and then what you've seen him do since then is stop being King James and stop being a fundamentalist Baptist. Why? Because he did not thrive in that movement. He didn't make it in that movement because he sucked, so he didn't really go anywhere. He wasn't popular. So then what you've seen him do over the last many, many years is just literally say whatever people want to hear to be popular. But he'll always make it sound like he's so controversial and so edgy like, man, I know this is really going to upset people, but I just think men should use the men's bathroom. Because if you look at the history of Greg Locke, the thing that made his Facebook page blow up and what made him famous was literally Target letting transvestites into the women's room. And he took this really bold stand of saying that transvestites shouldn't be in the ladies' room and so forth. So I mean, he always is just saying these really Republican things, just really vanilla stuff that just literally half of America agrees with, anybody who's conservative, and he'll just say whatever is popular. And whatever's the trending topic that week, he'll talk about it. And he'll always say the most popular opinion, but he'll act like it's just so countercultural. It's like Fox News amped up a little bit. Yeah, he's just he is Fox News as a preacher. And, you know, I'm just gonna say it. I'm just gonna say it. I don't care if you walk out of my church. I'm gonna say it right now. The Democrats don't believe the Bible. Amen. Come on. Come on now. How much of his preaching do you really listen to, Ben? Go ahead. He's the most vanilla preacher in the world. And he's just but now he's taken it to another level by becoming a Charismaniac. But again, why does he do that? Because he knows that the big money making mega pastors that have the big televangelist lifestyle are Charismaniacs, so he'll become a Charismaniac. I mean, he will literally become anything if it will get him popularity. You can watch this man's career over the last few decades, and it's just whatever it takes to be popular, he'll do it. That's all that matters to him. And so, yeah, whatever's the trending topic, that's what he's going to talk about. And of course, there's a huge segment of America that is super pro-Israel, and he's ready to just tell them what they want to hear. People don't listen to Greg Locke to be challenged. They listen to Greg Locke to basically hear their opinion coming out of his mouth. I mean, do you think that he's really reaching a lot of new people, or is he just basically pandering to an audience that's just hungry for his message? There's no way that he's taking people that are against Israel and converting them to being pro-Israel. There's no way. That's just simply not happening. What he's doing is just having this little cheerleader pep rally for Israel with people that are already Israel fans. He's just energizing his little Israel fans by just showing that he can post more flags and more heart emojis in the post than the other guy. Well, I feel like your Marching to Zion clips, or at least your film, is still reaching people today. I've seen a couple more recent posts where people were sharing your sermon clip, and Stu Peter specifically shared one of the snippets from the film. I want to see if we can play this. This is Leo Abrami, I think. I don't know if we can hear it. This is still present in the mind of many. Throughout history, Christians have not looked at the Jews as God's chosen people. They looked at them as a people that rejected Christ and were therefore rejected by God. For example, the last book written by Martin Luther before he died was called The Jews and Their Lies. And in this book, he gives all kinds of scriptural arguments for why the Jews are not God's chosen people. And he also exposes a lot of the blasphemous teachings of the Talmud. They have demonized. This guy, this guy's got like the most epic voice ever. I mean, part of the thing that's so great about the film Marching to Zion is just all four rabbis are just so classic. I mean, obviously, God was really blessing the film, because I don't think you could have gotten four better rabbis. It's like the four best rabbis in America, just to represent Judaism. They're all different, too. They're so different from one another. And it was so great how we had such a broad spectrum, because we had an Orthodox rabbi, we had the conservative rabbi, we had the reformed rabbi, we had the humanist rabbi. And they have totally different personalities. But they're all just so classic, and it just makes the movie so entertaining and so quotable. Before I forget, I want to go back to something that Greg Locke said, his thing about how just, oh, the Bible is just so filled with the Jewish nation. We got to support the Jewish nation. I just did a quick search on Jewish nation, and it's not even in the Bible. There is no such thing as the Jewish nation. What's he even talking about? I did a quick search just on the word Jewish, and I came up with one Bible verse that we need to avoid Jewish fables. He's just acting like there's just this mountain of evidence for the Jewish nation, when in reality, what you have is you have to talk about Israel. And when you look up verses that are about the Jews, typically, it ends up being negative. Because you find verses like Revelation 2 and Revelation 3, where it talks about how they say they're Jews, but they're not. They're actually the synagogue of Satan. Or you find in Romans chapter 2, he's not a Jew, which is one outwardly. Neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh, but he's a Jew, which is one inwardly. And so you find a lot of verses calling out the Jews as imposters, that spiritually they're not right. You find verses about the Jews killing the Lord Jesus and killing their own prophets. You find all kinds of verses in the book of Acts about the Jews stirring up persecution against Christians. I mean, there's just not this mountain of verses saying we need to support the Jewish nation. That's not even a biblical concept. And by the way, it's not even the reality of what Israel is. Because Israel is not necessarily even a Jewish state or a Jewish nation in the sense that he's thinking. Just because someone lives in Israel doesn't even mean that they're a religious Jew. I mean, a lot of Israelis are secular. In fact, the vast majority are not Orthodox Jews. Many are non-religious or Reform Jews. And the Orthodox Jews make up a minority of the population over there. But even so, Orthodox Judaism is a wicked, blasphemous, Christ-rejecting, anti-Christ religion. And so he makes these claims. He's not backing anything up. He's not teaching anything. He's just yelling and screaming. You know, the verse he brought up is an important verse, because I've had conversations with people that are Zionists, and I just ask them, I say, okay, the Bible says in Titus chapter 1, not giving heed to Jewish fables and commandments of men that turn from the truth. I say, as a Zionist, who do you apply that verse to? Because it's almost like all of these warnings that we have in the Bible about the circumcision, and specifically about the Jews, that they apply to no one. Like, from a Zionist perspective, it seems like they don't have anybody to apply these verses to, and that they're almost meaningless to them. I mean, you have some verses in Revelation 2-9 and 3-9 that bring up the Jews which are lying about it, and they're the synagogue of Satan. The Bible says they say they're Jews, but they do lie. They are the synagogue of Satan. And it almost seems like the Zionists have no application, no interpretation for these verses. Correct me if I'm wrong, have you heard a Zionist argument for any of these verses, Ben? No, I just, I don't really hear a lot of their biblical, other than dancing around in Romans 11, and we talked earlier about some of the Old Testament passages. They like to wrongly apply to the Jews coming in in 1948. No, I don't often hear them actually address these points. The closest I've heard is, I believe it was Andrew Sluder, and that's a name probably no one knows anymore. He's kind of faded into obscurity, but I'm pretty sure he made the argument that Christians are Abraham's seed, but then the Jews are also Abraham's seed, and they'll get converted magically at the end of Daniel's 70th week. So it's kind of like, we're both Abraham's seed just in a different way, but they're still God's chosen people. I don't know. At the end of the day, it seems like they kind of just speak more so in talking points and memorized talking points than structured biblical arguments. At least that's my perspective. Brother Shelley, you made an excellent point about how they make these verses meaningless, and here's another way of wording that. You've made the Word of God of none effect by your tradition. I mean, that's what Jesus said about people who twist the Bible. And what's funny is that what I've heard people say about Revelation 2 and 3 is they said, oh, it's the Jehovah's Witnesses, or oh, it's the Black Hebrew Israelites. They'll try to point to some modern day cult and say these are the people who are saying they're Jews and are not, or whatever. I've heard that it's us. Yeah, I mean, it's you and I. I mean, Black Hebrew Israelites would say that it's us or something. But what's so stupid about that, though, is that obviously the Bible's timeless. Obviously, the Bible is also applying to future situations, but it also must have some meaning to the original audience. I mean, if he's writing to a literal church back in the first century A.D. and he's writing to a church in Asia Minor saying, I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan. I mean, what is the original audience like? Well, huh? I've never seen anything like that. Oh, don't worry. It's coming. It's coming hundreds of years later. Like, obviously, the things that are said in those letters to the seven churches, they have to have meaning for those seven churches. Otherwise, why is he saying it to the church at Smyrna? Why is he saying it to the church of Philadelphia? It must have meaning for that church. So it has to be a group that was around back then. You can't say it's coming in the future. To continue with your point, because it's such a good point, is why are the Jews at that time, if we're going to make the application of the historical context, if the Jews back then are bad and you're supposed to be aware of them and that they're lying and they're the synagogue of Satan, what event caused them to not be that anymore? At what point did they just stop being these bad people? And it's like, okay, well, 1948, but none of them got saved or turned to God or had some revival or started believing in Jesus Christ, so why would I think that anything's different? If we take the historical context, we recognize that they were bad, they were enemies at that time, why is it that they're now magically not enemies? What was the event that caused them to stop being an enemy, Ben? There was none. I mean, clearly that ideology has been passed down to those who call themselves Jews today, and it's gotten worse. It's gotten even more rotten, it's gotten even more blasphemous, it's gotten even more anti-Christ. Some of the things written in the Talmud are so evil, I don't even want to repeat it right now. So it's only gotten worse, it seems like. Pastor Anderson? Yeah, I mean, if you think about it, and I think Philippians 3 is such a powerful passage. It's hard to pick which one's the best, but Philippians 3 is so powerful. Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision, for we are the circumcision which worship God in the Spirit and rejoice in Christ Jesus and have no confidence in the flesh. So he calls the Jews, instead of the circumcision, which is what they would call themselves, he calls them the concision because he says we as Christians who believe in Jesus Christ, we're the actual circumcision. I mean, you have the Apostle Paul saying to a Gentile church in Philippi in Macedonia, he's saying to the Macedonian believers, we're the circumcision who worship Jesus Christ. I mean, I don't understand how you could get any clearer than that. But I think that for a lot of these people, they're so hung up on the genealogy aspect. You can throw all these scriptures at them, passage after passage, verse after verse, and they'll just come at you with, but you don't understand. Those folks in Israel have an ethnic line that takes them all the way back to Abraham, and according to Genesis chapter 12, we need to bless them or else we won't be blessed ourselves. And one thing I want to bring up is that in your film, Marching to Zion, you actually address that point about this supposed ethnic line that they have, that they are of Abraham physically speaking. When the reality is, first of all, it doesn't matter what your ethnicity is, we're in the New Testament, and we're all one in Christ Jesus, the Bible says we're all of one blood, the Bible says that the house of God is a house of prayer for all people. You could be purple, I don't care. So that's the first thing. Second thing is you even debunk that talking point that they use about how, well, these people are physical descendants of Abraham, and so therefore, they ought to be pedestalized. I want to play another clip here, and Stu Peters is apparently your number one fan. He interviewed you, didn't he? Yeah, I think he did, actually. Not that long ago. He's invited me on a couple times since then, but unfortunately, it just didn't work with my schedule. So I, you know, I need to get back on there because I feel bad because I haven't been able to come on the couple times that he wanted me to come on because, you know what I mean? I was just, I was just busy. It just didn't work out. So hopefully I can come on again. But he must have a pretty big audience because I even had someone visit our church this Sunday and they said, Oh, I heard about you through Stu Peters. And so apparently he's got a pretty big audience. And so, you know, I'm glad that he's playing this stuff because, you know, at the end of the day, it's the Bible that people need to hear, and people need to hear the truth about this stuff. You know, I just have two words to debunk, you know, the argument that Ben brought up. It's just avoid genealogies. I mean, that's what the Bible says. Avoid genealogies. And it's funny because they're, the Old Testament's filled with genealogies, but the New Testament only has two genealogies in the entire New Testament. There are two genealogies and they're both the same person's genealogy, Jesus. Because Jesus' genealogy is the only genealogy that matters anymore. You know, and that's why in the entire New Testament, the only genealogy that exists is the genealogy of Jesus. And they hate that. They want to go to the Talmud and say he's like the son of Pantera, Ben Pantera or something. Let's play this clip. It's not hard to figure out who the synagogue of Satan is when you realize that there's only one religion in this world that uses synagogues, Judaism. It's not hard to figure out who they are when the Bible tells us that they say they're Jews and they're not. Not everyone in this world goes around saying I'm a Jew. People who practice Judaism say that they're Jews. It's not hard to figure out. There we go. I guess it's not hard to figure out who they are, Ben. You don't even need a genealogy. Well, you know, it's funny, you know, there is that sequence in the marching design film. It's like a 20 minute sequence or something where I show mathematically and scientifically that basically that every single one of us on this planet is a direct descendant of Abraham. And, you know, I've heard people laugh at that or scoff at that. You know, what I've never heard is an actual meaningful response to that. And, you know, I was really disappointed because when we came out with that film back in 2015, and when I preached that sermon back in 2014, literally 10 years ago, I was expecting there to be some kind of a response, some kind of a, you know, the empire striking back or something. But what ended up happening was it just, it was just crickets. It was either just totally ignoring it. And I mean, we're talking about a film that has been seen by literally millions of people, possibly even tens of millions of people, but for sure, minimum several million people just on one upload of YouTube have seen the film marching design. Okay. And tons of people have done reviews on it, have responded to it, but no one has given a meaningful response. No one has embraced the truth of what I've said. No one has rejected what I've said. No one can even respond to what I've said. And I was ready. Like I had all the math ready. I had all the data ready. I had the Bible ready. And I was just so ready to defend that. And I've just never even had a chance to defend it because guess what? No one can debunk it because it's true. But yet the entire world just goes on as if it isn't true. And you see these stupid studies in the news like, oh, new DNA study shows that all the Jews in the world go back to a single female, you know, 3,500 years ago. It's like, yeah, no crap. We all go back to some female from 3,500 years ago. I mean, it's just, it's so dumb. It just shows that they don't understand the math or the science in these little pop science articles because I'm not talking about like a scientific journal article actually by a real scientist. I'm talking these little pop articles that come out, you know, sensationalizing these headlines about DNA of Israel, which is just a bunch of just selective evidence. But you know what? If a DNA study shows that the Jews living in Israel today are actually descended from Abraham, that wouldn't surprise me one bit because of course they are because we all are. Because we're all mixed because we've all been mixing for the last few thousand years. And if people don't know what I'm talking about is what I'm saying might sound crazy right now. But you know what? The truth often does sound crazy. The truth, especially when it comes to things like math and science, the truth is often counterintuitive. And like I said, it's been over a decade and no one has even tried to debunk that sequence of the film. Like, I'm not saying someone did a bad job of responding to it or debunking it. I'm saying that no one has even to my knowledge even tried to respond to it because they can't because I'm right because it's facts. It's math. Surprise, we're all Jews. I know someone that that's going to really offend. And even his name is Israel anyways, so he's not going to like that he's a Jew. But the thing is, I think you're ahead of your time. I think you're a pioneer. But I feel like Zionism is dying at this point. I feel like... We're not... Go ahead. I was going to say we're not Jews, we're not Israelites because it's got nothing to do with ethnicity. And this is another point, and I'm sorry to interrupt you, but this is another point that kind of went over the head of some people that watch the film is that, you know, that sequence of the film, it kind of culminates in a joke. It was meant to be tongue in cheek. It was meant to be silly when I get the DNA test and I'm Jewish and everything like that. Like people thought I was serious, but really the whole thing was meant to be a joke just to show how stupid it was. Which is why right after I get the DNA result, you know, a pastor comes on the screen says, come on, is this what this is really about? This is what it really comes down to, a DNA test, you know? Anyway, sorry to interrupt you. You were saying that... He's trying to deny his Jewish heritage, you know, here on the show, but he's Jewish. We have proof. We have mathematical proof. We have the video evidence, folks. He said it. That's my DNA test. Yeah, we have all of the evidence that we need. Pastor Anderson's obviously a descendant of Israel, and so we just need to accept the reality. I mean, they always talk about you being like a secret agent, like a FEMA pastor or whatever. You're like a Mossad Jewish agent, so there you go. But I feel like you're kind of ahead of your time, and I think that nobody was ready with a real response, so they're all afraid. But it does seem like the tide's been turning a little bit. More people are talking about this. And it seems like the people talking about this are non-religious or like loosely religious. It seems like the people that are actually religious or the pastors out there are just not talking about it. Apart from maybe your friends and other like-minded fundamental Baptists, there's really not a lot of people bringing this up. It even seems like those who are Zionists are kind of afraid to really get in the nitty-gritty or talk about this. I'm kind of curious, like your thoughts. Where are we headed doctrinally? Do you think that there's going to be a resurgence of the Zionism doctrine? I know Trump's pretty pro-Israel, and we have Greg Locke's pretty pro-Israel. I mean, do you think that this is going to catch on, or do you think that we're just going to slowly just roll over top of them? I think that the vast majority of so-called Christians don't care what the Bible says, don't care what the truth is, don't read the Bible, don't know anything about it, aren't researching it, and they will continue to be Zionist until Jesus comes. That's my opinion. But I will say this, among people who actually matter, like people who are actually saved, people who actually believe the Bible, like actual Christians, not just people that are culturally Christian or calling themselves a Christian but they don't actually believe on the Lord Jesus Christ as their personal savior. I'm saying that amongst those who matter, Zionism is starting to go away, and it's starting to fall away. And here's why. Because Zionism made sense in the 20th century. It was exciting to see these developments in the 20th century from a Zionist perspective of them coming into the land. And look, we should acknowledge something right now, that the nation of Israel coming into existence in the 20th century was an amazing, phenomenal event. I'm not saying in a good way, but it was amazing, it was a phenomenon, and it was unprecedented in the history of mankind. I mean, to think about a language being a completely dead language from around the first century AD all the way until the late 1800s, to go from a dead language to a language with millions of native speakers. I mean, it's unprecedented. Show me another language that was dead for almost 2,000 years and now has five, six million native speakers or whatever. Don't quote me on that number, but however many millions of native speakers of modern Hebrew. It's amazing. Six million. It's incredible. Yeah, it's got to be six million, but don't question that number either. It's got to be one of the most incredible events in the history of mankind, Israel becoming a nation, the language being resurrected, everything surrounding it. It's super interesting, but that doesn't prevent it from being ungodly, satanic, wicked, and having nothing to do with people actually being blessed by God or believing in Jesus. But you've got to put yourself in the shoes of people in the 20th century. Fundamentalist Baptists who are Bible-believing Christians who loved God, you can see why they would see such an amazing event and say, wow, this is a working of God. Especially when they're being told that, well, no, they're coming to the land and then they're about to get saved and they're receptive to the gospel and all these lies and disinformation they were being fed about how they were about to get saved. But now that that doctrine has been kind of sitting out of the fridge for a while, it's gotten so ranted and rotten because it never happened. It never came true. The Jews didn't get saved. There was no revival in Israel and there are less Christians now in Israel than there were 20 years ago. It's on a decline. And stop and think about this too. Like you mentioned earlier, what's a man profited if he gains the whole world and loses his own soul? If you stop and think about it, the Jews would probably be more likely to get saved if they were living in America or even places like Germany or Hungary or Russia or something. They'd probably be more likely to get saved than living in Israel. So why would God bring them to Israel just so they could have even less of a chance of getting saved, be in an even more Christ-rejecting place than they were already in before and bringing them to a place where they're even less likely to get saved? Look, if the Jews would have come to the land in 1948 and then in the 50s, 60s or 70s there would have been some huge revival where just hundreds of thousands of Jews are being saved or millions of Jews are converting to Christianity or something, then that would actually make you think like, oh wow, okay, God's doing something here because people are being saved. What people don't understand is that just because something cool happens or interesting or amazing or phenomenal doesn't mean it's necessarily good or righteous. I mean, obviously there are going to be some pretty amazing things in the book of Revelation done by the dragon and the antichrist and even John is kind of marveling and wondering and the angels saying to John like, hey, wherefore didst thou marvel? But it's hard not to marvel at the great whore and at the dragon and at the beast and these things. So yeah, we could still marvel and say, wow, Israel becoming a nation in 1948 was a pretty unprecedented historical event. And obviously it probably does have some significance for end times Bible prophecy, but for the antichrist, for the wicked side, not for the good side. Yeah, I think that obviously a lot of people are going to wonder after the beast. That's what the Bible literally says. And I agree with you that 1948 is kind of special, but it seems like a lot of that specialness has worn off. A lot of people now have no idea about any of that history. They know nothing about World War II. They know very little about the Middle East or the state of Israel. And so when they end up doing research, they kind of look at more modern media sources, and they're finding a lot of skepticism. They're finding an alternative message in history, and it's causing a lot of uproar in churches, not even just ours, but even in Reformed churches. And what was funny is I saw a clip of James White, who was responding to some of the quote, rising anti-Semitism that he's seeing in Reformed circles. And you know, again, it's like, have you read any of the Reformers? Because it's like, you know, John Calvin, Martin Luther. I mean, these guys were not pro-Jew, but I want to play this clip because I found it really funny, apart from the fact that he's decorating some gay rainbow flag behind him. But let's go ahead and play this clip real quick. It was the insatiable hatred by one ethnic group versus another that was fueled not by Luther. Yes, I know Luther. I know. I also read Johann Eck. I know the historical context a whole lot better than you do. It was fueled by this insane conspiracy theory that the Jews were behind everything. Well, it's happening again on American college campuses and evidently in Reformed churches. And I am thankful that Doug was addressing it and taking heat for it. And I'm sure I'll take heat for saying this. And I'll look any Reformed man in the eye who would laugh at that meme. And you need to repent. You need to be put under church discipline. If you're in a position of leadership, you need to step down now. Now, don't make me name names, because I will. You can stop this. Now, this is what I want to do is I want to put up this meme. Have you seen it, Ben? You've shown it. OK. All right. Let's see if you can still keep a straight face, because I don't want you to have to step down out of church and get church discipline. But here, let's see if we can pull up the meme that James White was just so offended by. He's offended at other people finding this funny in any way, shape or form. And he believes that... Well, if you laugh at it, you should be church disciplined, according to him. We have to step down immediately. You have to step down. If you're a pastor, you have to step down because you laugh at this meme. If you think this is funny. It's coming. Yeah, sorry. Our production crew did not find it funny. While it's pulling up, let me just point out, of course, that he's so arrogant. Like, I know it better than you do. I know the history better than you do. Who's he talking to? Does he just know history better than every viewer? Everybody. The viewer. Like every single person? Like, it doesn't matter who you are who's watching this video. He knows the history better than you. Pastor Shelley, do you want to walk us through this? Hey, Mom, what's the Holocaust? It was the one time Jews had to do manual labor, so they claimed it killed them. Yeah, well, I guess we all need to stop. These ladies need to be kicked out of church. That was very inappropriate for asking that question. James White is just totally arrogant. I'm smarter than you. I know the history better than you. I know everything. He's like that about every subject. But then, he's like, hey, I've read Johann Eck or whatever. Like, hold on a second. You don't have to read Johann Eck or whatever to know Martin Luther's views on the Jews since he literally wrote an entire book called The Jews and Their Lies. So it's not really hard to find it. It's the title of the book. And honestly, the book on The Jews and Their Lies is extremely radical. It has a lot of great biblical points in it, but it also just has a lot of just over-the-top, like, bluster and rhetoric. And it's so radical. And all the Reformers, obviously, were negative toward the Jews in some way, shape, or form because that's just the way Christianity has been in general. And this pro-Jewish, pro-Zionist stuff is kind of a new phenomenon. And it's probably just being rolled out for the end times. Yeah, and obviously, even if you didn't think that meme was funny at all or even if you're kind of offended by it or whatever, it's not a church discipline issue, obviously. And the fact that he would take it that far just goes to show you that he is a Zionist at heart, I guess. But Pastor Anderson, I'm curious because you bring up this Martin Luther, The Jews and Their Lies and this is slightly off topic, so we don't have to spend too much time on it, but I am just curious did he believe in baptismal regeneration? Was there any evidence pointing in that direction? Yeah, and that's the bummer because it's such a great book but then there's like one or two lines in the book that are just wrong on salvation and it just kind of ruins the book in that sense. But he definitely preached some things that are not compatible with the Gospel of Jesus Christ. And so, if you look at the fruit, the tree is known by its fruit. Look at the Lutherans of today. Talk to any Lutheran you want. They don't believe in the eternal security of the believer. They're not saved when you go knocking on their doors and questioning them on salvation. They're virtually never saved. And so, I mean, obviously, the guy was teaching false doctrines from the Roman Catholic Church of baptismal regeneration, original sin doctrine and stuff like that that is just not biblical. But that doesn't take away from the fact that just historically speaking guys like John Calvin and Martin Luther that we don't look up to, we don't think that they're wonderful, but the Reformed people do. And these are their supposed spiritual forebears and they were obviously very clear what they believed about the Jews. And it's interesting when you read the story about Martin Luther is that he started out really loving the Jews and wanting to get them saved. And so, he actually put a lot of effort into trying to evangelize the Jews and it was in the process of doing that that he realized how much they hated the Lord Jesus Christ and how satanic their religion was. And so, that's why it ends up being the final book that he writes. It's toward the end of his ministry that he writes this book on the Jews and their lies and also one of his final sermons is on that same topic because it was at the end of his life after he had the experiences with them that he felt that way about them. And like I said, the book is over the top. The book is too radical for me. I mean, the book is just too much. But that being said, you can't argue with the biblical points that he makes about the Jews. All the biblical points that he makes about Israel and the Jews are really spot on. He just kind of goes overboard in some of his rhetoric. He gets a lot of kind of crude like junior high bathroom kind of humor and just a lot of just really extreme hateful statements about the Jews and everything like that. But yeah, I mean, you can't argue with the logic behind the book because he backs things up with the Bible and the logic is sound. Well, I think that sometimes it's good to expose what the Talmud says as well. And I think you had a chart from Dan Bilzerian where he just kind of highlighted a few quotes from the Talmud. I want to see if we can kind of bring that up on the screen here. And it's kind of it's a little bit hard to see there, but it says kind of that top left corner. It says, so Faram, 15, even the best of the goyim should all be killed. Sanhedrin, 58b, if a goyim hits a Jew, he must be killed. Yebemoth, 98a, all children of goyim are animals. Sanhedrin, 57a, when a Jew murders a Gentile, there will be no death penalty. Baba, Mesiah, 114b, Gentile quote goys are not humans. They are beasts, which, you know, some of this language is really important when it comes to war efforts. It's important to kind of demonize the other side or enemy and make them seem subhuman so that you have no problem killing them, murdering them, doing whatever to them. And so, you know, a lot of this language is a really useful propaganda tool to do things that are kind of atrocious and for people to feel right about it, because most people don't have a seared conscience. Most people still can kind of generally understand right from wrong. And so you almost have to dehumanize people for them to feel okay ripping people off, killing women and children, slaughtering people, torturing them. I mean, some of the stuff that they're doing is just horrible to the prisoners in Israel. They're like molesting them and raping them and all kinds of stuff. And I saw one of the soldiers going on TV saying like, you know, you better support our troops and that's fine. And, you know, these people are subhuman. And it's just kind of weird that they, we always talk about human rights, but it's like what human rights do the Jews offer to non-Jews according to their own text? And this isn't just like obscure passage. I mean, this is like what officials will even admit to. And we've put it in the video, we put in some of our movies. I mean, you've helped us with our LGBT terrorist film and in that latter section it talks about Jews. What does that one Jew say? Do you remember? Sorry, what specific are you referring to? The guy in pigtails, he's kind of like towards the end. Oh yeah, he says basically non-Jews aren't even humans. But you see this manifested in the way that the Israeli government treats the Palestinians, the way that they're being systematically slaughtered, obliterated militarily, not just there, but also in Lebanon and in Syria. They bomb residential areas supposedly to try to wipe out Hezbollah. They don't. And they just end up killing innocent men, women, and children. The bloodshed that Israel is responsible for in the Middle East, it continues to grow. And especially if you know people from that region who can tell you what's going on on a boots on the ground level, it's really sad. And I think that there's this mentality that the Jews are justified, the Israeli government is justified in committing these atrocities. And I just don't see how the same folks, especially on the left, who get all offended about a rebel flag, a confederate flag or whatever, which I'm not even a confederate flag person, but it's so funny, a lot of these liberals, they get so offended about a liberal flag, but then they go and vote for politicians who bomb brown people in the Middle East systematically, who support that at the very least, and aid it financially. And that's okay. That's fine. That doesn't matter to them. Nuts to your stupid confederate flag. Save me your indignation on that when you support political Zionism. And I kind of went off on a rabbit trail there, I apologize, but that's my response. Well, I feel like there's at least some noticing going on, and what I can appreciate is I feel like we're kind of winning when the jokes and all the memes are on our side. And you just go onto a random app where people aren't even fundamental Baptists, and they're posting things like this. I want to play this clip because I just find it amusing. Come on, believe me. Did you know that six-gorillion people died yesterday alone because you didn't take the vaccine? Is that Fauci? Yeah, Fauci says that they killed six-gorillion. Now, this is what's funny. I saw this, I just thought it was funny, and then I typed in six-gorillion. And you know what's the first thing that comes up when you type six-gorillion into the internet? An ADL article. So they're already on it. Apparently this is already a colloquialism or some kind of term where they're just like, this is anti-Semitism, and they're kind of cracking down on it. But again, it stems back to the idea of the Holocaust and six-million, you can't question these things. And so I think out of that stems things like this. And you scroll through this article, it talks a lot about how this is just some kind of anti-Semitic trope and blah, blah, blah. But it just seems like every time I read something on the ADL, I just learn so much. It's like telling all the things they say, this is what didn't happen. I'm like, oh, this is what did happen. It's pretty interesting. Because when someone just makes a wild-eyed conspiracy or just says something crazy about me or one of our friends, we usually don't respond at all. We're not going to write a detailed article about how this isn't factual or whatever. It's usually the things that have a little bit of truth or there's something going on that people have these kind of detailed responses on. So I just find it kind of interesting how the ADL, it's almost like they're just providing us single-handedly all the information that's actually pertinent. They have things on blood libel. They have things on six trillion. Actually, they have a glossary of terms. And Stephen Henderson is a defined term. Also, I'm a defined term in their glossary. And it's just kind of funny. I typically enjoy reading the ADL's articles about me and my church and everything. I actually find them to be pretty good sometimes. But what's interesting is you talk about those quotes from the Talmud, dehumanizing Gentiles. And if you stop and think about it, that's basically what was happening in Nazi Germany during World War II. There was also propaganda that was dehumanizing the Jews. And that kind of goes to show you that you reap what you sow. When you have this Christ-rejecting religion that says we're superior to everyone else and dehumanizes non-Jews, then don't be surprised when you get dehumanized because that's the way the world works. You reap what you sow. And so I think that that's exactly why that happened to them. That's a judgment from God. It's a punishment from God. But one thing I would like to say, too, is that what you have to understand, though, is that your average Jew has never read the Talmud, doesn't read the Talmud. First of all, the vast majority of religious Jews, they don't even have anything to do with the Talmud because the Talmud is mainly a thing for Orthodox Jews, which, again, is a small minority of Jews. And even amongst the Orthodox Jews, most of them are not reading the Talmud whatsoever. Even the rabbis themselves have not read the whole thing. I've never even met anyone who claimed to read the entire thing. And when I asked the rabbis in Marching Design if they'd read the whole thing, they said no, and that maybe someone who devoted their whole life to study had read the whole thing, but that most of them hadn't read the whole thing. And so I think that obviously the Jews are not God's chosen people. The Jews are not saved. They're going to go to hell unless they believe that Jesus is their savior, that he's the son of God, that he's the Messiah. But at the same time, your average Jew in America or something is not necessarily hating Christ or hating Gentiles or anything like that. They're just people just like Catholics or Muslims or Hindus that are just born into a certain religion, and they're just kind of living their lives. So I do want to caution people that they shouldn't just get this attitude that just every Jew is the enemy and hates Christ and hates us and hates the Gentiles. Because it isn't true. I mean, obviously there are these radical people out there, the rabbis and these ultra-Orthodox or Orthodox Jews, but the majority of Jews are like the majority of Hindus or majority of Muslims, majority of anything. They're just not really that into it and don't really care. Yeah, it's sometimes not fair to demonize the 1% for what the 99% do, and so we need to make sure that we're careful. That was a joke. That went over my head. I was like, what? Obviously I agree with you that most Jews don't even really know what's going on. The last time I went to Faith Ward Baptist Church, I ran into a Jew, but he was, of course, saying ethnically that I was actually saved. He was a part of your church, and he was the one making the most of the Jew jokes anyway, so I appreciated his sense of humor. But it's obvious that we still want Jews to get saved. It's not that I don't want Jews to get saved. But if we were to be honest, some of the worst people, some of the people that are very influential in attacking Christianity, are of the religion of Judaism, and of course there's a tight coupling between that religion and that ethnicity. So some people may mistake the ethnicity for the religion, but it's really the anti-Christ religion that these people are brought up on, they believe in or are practicing that's causing this. In my view, the ethnicity doesn't exist. I don't even accept that there is a Jewish ethnicity. I think it's nonsense. It's ridiculous. It's just Russians, Hungarians, Polish people, whatever. Germans. There is no Jewish ethnicity, in my opinion. They're just white people. Yeah, I mean, I agree. I think that when I talk about Jewish ethnicity, like in my perspective, it's basically people that converted to the religion of Judaism and their children, whether or not their children are continuing to practice that particular religion. So it kind of got conflated at some point, obviously throughout history, but most of these people are just kind of religious converts that were almost probably a one-for-one of what you would claim was ethnically versus religious. And then over time, we've had a lot more atheism and secular Jews that have kind of diverged, maybe, from that particular group. But ultimately, I think, you know, even while you still see a lot of quote secular Jews doing a lot of evil things and wicked things, I think they're just kind of brought up in an ecosystem that's still based on Jewish teaching. And a lot of Jewish teaching dehumanizes the Gentiles. It praises the love of money. And so a lot of them kind of have those morals kind of instilled in them. And so I think, yeah, I think it's better instead of calling them ethnic Jews, I think it's better to call them cultural Jews, because I think that's what they are. They're cultural Jews. So they're raised in that culture because maybe their grandparents or parents were religious Jews, so they're culturally Jewish. But ethnically Jewish makes it seem as if that's actually a legitimate ethnicity or something, when in reality, it's really just a bunch of Europeans or other people who've converted to Judaism. They've converted to a religion. I mean, we don't have a Christian ethnicity or a Muslim ethnicity, you know, because it's a religion. And so I think that you can have religious Jews and they could be black, white, you know, Asian, whatever. I mean, I knew a Korean guy who was Jewish, right? So according to the old IFB, I guess he's one of God's chosen people because he's a Korean who decided to reject Jesus Christ and become a Jew. But the bottom line is you have religious Jews, and then you have cultural Jews, and then you have a nationality, not an ethnicity, but a nationality called Israeli, right? So there's an Israeli nationality because there's a nation state called Israel. And so those people have that Israeli passport and that's their nationality, they're Israelis. So you have Israelis, you have religious Jews, cultural Jews. But, you know, anybody who believes on the Lord Jesus Christ is a Christian. And anybody who goes by the term Jewish, you know, is typically either talking about the religion or they're culturally Jewish and they're not a believer in the Lord Jesus Christ. Because Christians don't go around saying I'm Jewish unless they're these weird, like, Judaizing, you know, Hebrew roots types or something. This sounds a little confusing, though, because I'm supposed to bless, you know, the seed of Abrahams as a Zionist. So how am I supposed to know who I'm supposed to be blessing? It's super easy. You bless everyone who believes in the Lord Jesus Christ as their Savior. Because if the Bible says, if you be Christ, then are you Abraham's seed and heirs according to the promise? So it's very simple. You know, you bless Christians. That's the seed of Abraham. Do you think, here's my view a little bit is, you know, Marching Design was kind of this this pioneer project. And I think it I think personally it kind of changed a lot of people's perspective, woke some people up. And a lot of people are now like the tide's a little bit turning. Is there room for or is the timing coming where another project like a Marching Design 2 or maybe just some similar project would maybe be able to come on the heels and kind of do even more damage now that more people have kind of awoken to this issue? What do you think, Ben? Do you think that there's some appetite here for another project like this? I think the appetite's there. To me the challenge is the means by which such a documentary can be distributed given the fact that everything especially that Pastor Anderson does is throttled and censored and he has to go through 25 YouTube channels an hour to post his content. So I think there's a challenge there but obviously with unfettered access to YouTube and having some kind of platform then yeah I do think another film like that could potentially make an impact. It's just a matter of figuring out how to actually get it in front of people just because of the situation we find ourselves in regarding censorship. What about you Pastor Anderson? Apart from obviously just preaching sermons and things like that do you have any plans or a vision to maybe continue to combat this particular doctrine like you did with Marching to Zion? I mean here's the way I see it. I could never work on another film on the Jews because Marching to Zion was just so good that you could never make a better film than that in my opinion. I'm not saying someone else couldn't but I could never make a better film than that. That's the best I got folks. And out of all the documentaries that Paul Wittenberger and I put together, documentaries that I worked on with other people Marching to Zion I feel is the greatest documentary that any of us have ever produced. In my opinion it's always been my number one favorite. But I think that in 2024 that's not really the format that people are looking for anymore because back when that film came out in 2015, yeah people are still watching documentaries whereas now, yeah they watch documentaries but let's face it, unfortunately this is generation TikTok, generation Instagram. Everybody loves these little shorts and so I think that now instead of putting together another feature length film as a follow up to Marching to Zion, our time and energy and resources are probably better spent putting together just a short video and just little short videos because that's all anybody wants anymore. And personally I hate the format. I like the long format. I like watching stuff that lasts for hours. But let's face it, the young people today, they watch shorts, they watch TikTok, they watch Instagram shorts and YouTube shorts and whatever. So I think that there's probably more bang for your buck putting out little short videos. Like I put out back in the day those Israel moments. I think I put out like 50 or 60 Israel moments and they're just a couple minutes long. Sadly those are probably even too long for today's audience. So you know you just have to hit them with little 30 seconds. You have to give us like a 10 second snippet here. Yeah and I mean I'm sure Pastor Bruce Mejia is probably putting out a bunch of little short snippets on Instagram. And I know that people are recycling Marching to Zion on TikTok and places like that and so hopefully they just keep doing that. But I think that if I wanted to put out new content on this subject it would probably be short content. But honestly right now I'm just preaching the Bible, preaching my sermons, preaching three times a week. And I just leave it to other people to chop it up and post it everywhere. Because I'm not allowed to post anything anywhere so other people have to do it for me. Yeah I mean I still feel like there's maybe opportunity to make some more documentaries and stuff on this subject. I agree with you it's going to be almost impossible to top some of those interviews and some of those scenes in that film. It's an instant classic. However you know I would like to see personally and maybe me and Ben we might still work on a few documentaries that we could still do kind of both. Chop them up, put them out there and then the few dinosaurs like us that want to watch the full film can go. And I think that look your guys' films, the films that you guys have put out are excellent. And I do think that you guys have put out the best film on the King James Bible that anyone has put out. I think you guys have put out the best film on the Sodomites. So I mean you know I'm all for it. I just don't know if you can come out with the best film on the Jews because marching to Zion is a tough act to follow. I mean even when we were making our next films after marching to Zion I remember saying to Paul Wittenberger we're never going to be able to top this film. We can't even try. We just have to make different films. We have to just make totally different films. And maybe that's just me being biased but I love that film. To me it's one of those things where you can't really replace. It's like a child. You can't have another child that's better than the next one. It's a child right? You're going to love it and it's unique and special. But you could have another child like a different one that's just a little bit unique. So I still have in the back of my mind I kind of have an idea for a film on that subject so we may just sneak you in there anyways. Here's the thing, even if it's second place I think it would still be worth it. I want to be a part of your guys' future film projects because I love the films you guys have made. And it's a lot easier just being in a film than to make the film. People like to be part of the winners. I like it when you guys do all the work and then I just show up and do a couple interviews. Well I appreciate what you guys were saying earlier making the distinction between what people call ethnic Jews and religious Jews. I agree. I don't believe that there is such an ethnicity anyway. I don't even believe in race. But my point is that I think that some people would listen to a podcast like this and may wrongly believe that we're attacking someone's bloodline or someone's ethnicity or background carnally speaking when we're not. And it's unfortunate that ideology for a lot of people is so tightly coupled with how they look and with their ethnic background. But we are attacking an ideology here on this stream. That is the main focus. And even amongst that group who hold to that ideology you heard a further distinction made between the Orthodox Jews and the subset of them who read the Talmud and your average Jew who might believe in some aspects of this false religion. But they're not necessarily reprobate. They could still get saved. So there is even differences amongst the spiritual when you talk about the spiritual ideology of false religion of Judaism. I just thought that was important because you know I think a lot of people the reason why they get so offended about this is because they think oh you must be a racist. It's like I'm not talking about a race at all and even amongst those who claim that they believe in the religion the average Joes out there who have never even heard of a Talmud potentially. Hey I love them. I want them to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. I want them to be saved. Amen. We got a we actually have a caller from San Antonio and he wants to kind of talk to ask us some questions about you know addressing the Zionism issue. We have David on the line. How's it going David. It's going good pastor. I guess my question is how can I talk to my old IFP like friends because especially in a church that has a pastor that's a super Zion is like how like how can I talk with them and the pastor about like the subject of Zionism and how it's a false religion and how we need to like like repent of like like reporting like physical Israel. Yeah I mean that's definitely a difficult question. I think a little bit just because like me personally I wouldn't want to necessarily do anything that appears to be like attacking the church or undermining the pastor's authority. But at the same time I think you know obviously when presented with opportunities if someone asks you about it you know I don't think that we necessarily have to shy away from what we believe. But you know I think in some of these cases it's one of those things where you focus on the things that you agree on and you can you can be excited about in the church and then when opportunities present themselves that you can maybe explain what you believe. But I don't know that I would be actively pursuing changing their mind on that issue while in a church that disagrees with it. I don't know what your thoughts are Pastor Anderson on that. Yeah I mean if you're saying that the pastor is super Zionist then obviously you're just going to be creating more problems and doing more harm than good by trying to go around and convert the church members to the opposite of what the pastor is teaching. You know I mean if you if you go to that church I'm assuming you go there because you believe it's the best church in your area. That's why you're going there. So if it's the best church in your area and they're wrong on this one issue it's not worth sowing strife and sowing discord over this issue. As far as just how to talk to Christian friends that are Zionist you know in another context because again if you're at this church and the pastor is really strong on this and whatever and he's really opinionated about it you need to just leave it alone. But as far as obviously the rest of us that are just out talking to our Christian friends at work, school, neighborhood, whatever, or at a church that isn't necessarily married to a Zionist doctrine. I mean it's really easy to prove this from the Bible. It's really easy. You flip over to Philippians chapter 3. You know you flip over to Galatians 3, Galatians chapter 4. I mean take your pick. I mean there's so many scriptures. You can grab any of these new IFB sermons on this subject and get so much ammo. But I mean if I showed someone Philippians 3, Galatians 3, Galatians 4 and they're still not getting it then at that point I would probably just think well this person doesn't really care about truth because it's so clear. It's so obvious. Yeah I think Galatians 3 is probably my favorite personally just because it kind of deals with the Abraham issue and the Genesis 12 issue. And also just the end of Romans 2 I think is kind of an important distinction that the Bible is making between the physical Jew and the spiritual Jew. And so you know I think just be like hey here's marching to Zion. That's the best way to convert somebody. Romans 9. The marching to Zion films a big one. Romans chapter 9. Because Romans 9, 10, and 11 are like a trilogy. And I mean if you read through Romans 9, 10, and 11 I mean there's so many great verses in there. I just think for someone that's new to this doctrine Romans 9 is a little harder for them. So I like your original suggestions like Philippians 3 or Galatians 3 to start with. Yeah I mean if you're looking for just a quick punchy verse I mean to me Philippians 3 is just Philippians 3 what is it verses 3 and 4 or whatever it is I mean it's just Philippians 3, 3 I mean it's just bam there it is. I also like in the Book of Acts when the Apostle Paul says like you judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life. Like that's a group of people that no one's going to question whether or not they're Jews, but we see like they're not going to get saved. They're not God's chosen people. I mean heck John chapter 6 is a great passage where Jesus is like explaining how they're not really the children of God. I mean I think that there's a lot of passages or is it John 8? It's like basically the Gospel of John. Yeah the Gospel of John is really strong on this obviously. It's John chapter 8 that you're referring to. Yeah I was misspoke about that. Yeah but I mean hey John 6 is a great chapter too but you know John 8 is a great one and Romans 11 verse 7 you know just goes to show that like Israel and the elect are not the same group. No that's a good one. I mean you could go to all the statements that Jesus made. I mean you could go to John the Baptist and Mark chapter or excuse me Matthew chapter 3 right at the beginning of the New Testament. The first sermon anybody preaches in the New Testament. Matthew chapter 3 and he's saying think not to say within yourselves we have Abraham to our father. You know I say unto you that God's able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham. I mean it's just it's on every page. I want to go to my Twitter real quick while we're doing this. We have another caller too that I want to get to but I want to see if you can pull up my Twitter because I did a poll and then someone asked a question and I kind of want to talk about this since we're bringing this subject up. But I just kind of put a poll obviously this is probably like our echo chamber or whatever but. Your X page may be slanted one way on this issue. Well you know just scroll down just a hair. Oh you know you probably have to be logged in. First thing that shows up pedophile faggot. You're gonna have to be logged in. Sorry because if you're not logged in you're gonna see my old posts. Yeah this is where Russian the same word for pedophile is the same word for faggot. So it just says like you know if you put this in Google Translate it says in Russian. pedophile pedophile. So it's just it's interesting how that words the exact same word in Russian. But okay well. Pastor Anderson I think before like right before that caller from San Antonio. It seemed like you were about ready to say something. Do you remember what it was or is it too late that it did it leave you. Okay never mind. Sorry. Sorry. I'm not sure if they can pull this up or not but. I just wanted to give you a chance to say it. Okay so the poll. I had a poll and it was basically what does the Bible say about Jews. And in the poll it basically gave four answers. They're God chosen people teaches Zionism or the synagogue of Satan the replacement theology or I don't know but they suck and then our greatest ally. And really it's a it's pretty heavily favored poll here it looks like ninety one point five percent currently are on synagogue of Satan. Seven percent for I don't know one percent for our greatest ally. No one picked God's chosen people so I guess our audience is kind of not accepting Zion. It looks like Zion was dying okay there's our answer. According to that poll. But there's there's someone asked a question on this and they said. I hate the term quote replacement theology because it is just one continuous gospel and they weren't replaced just cut off. And I think that would be a good quote you know some some response to kind of talk about here for a second. And my I did reply I just said well doesn't the spiritual nation of the New Testament replace the physical nation. And also the Old Testament is replaced with the new the spiritual Jews replaces the physical Jew. I personally have nothing against the term replacement theology I think that it describes in a certain sense what did happen. Because I don't believe there's still a physical nation anymore. I think that with the New Testament there's only a spiritual nation and that for lack of a better word it replaced that physical nation. How do you feel about this term replacement theology Pastor Anderson. Well I absolutely love that term you know and the thing is that I've sat down with reformed types. And you know they really go deep on theology and everything and they're like differentiating between covenant theology and replacement theology and like these nuances and everything like that. And when I've heard people who say that they don't believe in replacement theology but they do believe in covenant theology explain to me the difference. To me I always walk away saying well both are right because the Bible does teach both. Because you have a clear verse that says the kingdom of God shall be taken from you and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits. That's replacement you know it's just it's taken from one and given to another they've been replaced. But then you have Romans chapter 11 talking about basically the Christ rejecting Jews are kind of broken off of the olive tree. And then the believing Gentiles are graphed into the olive tree. So then that's kind of this idea that I think that the commenter prefers. He prefers to think of it as this kind of continuous olive tree. Certain branches are broken off. Other branches are graphed in. But it's kind of just one continuous stream and frankly the Bible teaches both. Because there's no difference between the two. It's just two different ways of explaining the reality. Two different parables. Two different explanations that arrive at the same conclusion. It used to be the physical nation of Israel. Now it's spiritual nation made of all believers. Some people though erroneously will think that nothing has changed with this regard. That oh well in the Old Testament it was a spiritual nation also. It was never a physical nation. That's just not true. In the Old Testament the physical nation of Israel was God's chosen people in that sense. There was a physical nation that he was dealing with in a special way. Whereas there isn't now. And that's one of the big differences between Old Testament and New Testament. And you also bring up a great point about replacement. That it's not even just that Christians have replaced Israel. But that it's also that the New Testament has replaced the Old Testament. And again when we say that we're not talking about the texts of the Bible. Because obviously we still believe and preach from the Old Testament scriptures. But when we talk about the New Covenant replacing the Old Covenant. The Old Testament, the Old Covenant is no longer in force. It has been replaced by the New Covenant. And Hebrews chapter 8 verse 13 makes that crystal clear. When it says, in that he saith the New Covenant he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away. And of course Covenant and Testament are synonymous. They mean the exact same thing. They're used interchangeably in the Bible. So the Old Testament is no longer in effect. It's been replaced by the New Testament. Sometimes this doctrine is called supersessionism. You know they have these fancy words for it. Supersessionism. Supersessionism or whatever. But whatever the term. But the bottom line is that I will continue to use the term replacement theology. I think it's a great term. The thing that I like the most about it is how it makes the other side's head explode. It's like saying Donald Trump or something. Well I like to embrace the terms that people use to attack us. If you think about it, they were first called Christians in the Bible by other people. By outsiders. They were called Christians. We've often been called things or criticized for things. And I like to just turn around and just own those things. Like, you guys are easy believism. Yeah, that's right. It's easy to get saved. It's simply believing in Jesus. Amen. What about the term elect? Were the physical Israelites elect in the Old Testament? Well I think it's just some were and some weren't. That's what it says. They're not all Israel which are of Israel. I think that's where the confusion comes in. Yeah, obviously when it comes to... there's an individual elect. But then there's also just an elect nation. Elect just means chosen. I agree with Pastor Shelley that when it comes to their personal salvation, some are elect and some are not. But when it comes to, was the Old Testament nation of Israel elect? Absolutely. Because if they're the chosen people, chosen and elect are the same word. So if you try to make chosen and elect be two different things, then that's an error right there. Because chosen and elect are the same thing. So if they're the chosen people in the Old Testament, if they're a chosen nation, if God chose Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and chose this nation for whatever reason, then in that sense they're elect. Are they elect when it comes to their salvation? Obviously that's an individual basis then. It's an individual basis now. But the difference is that in the Old Testament, you had a chosen nation that was a physical nation of Israel. Whereas nowadays, the chosen nation is made up of the saved. So basically nowadays, if you're elect in the sense of being saved, you're also elect in the sense of being part of the chosen nation. Whereas in the Old Testament, personal salvation and the corporate choosing of the nation were two separate things. Now in the New Testament they're the same thing. Hopefully that made sense. I got that for sure. I like the term replacement theology. Number one, because I think people know what we're talking about. And another thing that I like about it is it's accurate because in the Old Testament, if I'm a Gentile and I got saved, then there's this expectation to kind of join the nation of Israel, to get circumcised and be a part of this physical nation, to keep the Passover and to do the feasts. So even in the Old Testament, it's not like Gentiles couldn't get saved or couldn't join themselves under the physical nation, but there's this expectation to serve God that comes with the physical nation itself. And of course I'm ignoring the diaspora of the Babylonian captivity or something, but just generally speaking, if you wanted to serve God in the Old Testament, whether you're Jew or Gentile, you would join the nation of Israel and you'd get physically circumcised and you would observe the Passover. Whereas in the New Testament, if I get saved, I don't join a physical nation, I'm already a part of the spiritual nation. And so we can see that the replacement, in a sense, in a context, is about a physical nation versus a spiritual nation. And the place to serve God in the New Testament is the local church, whereas in the Old Testament, of course they could worship afar, but they had the temple, they had other locations, they're supposed to go to Jerusalem for certain feasts or certain special holidays. But now in the New Testament we have a spiritual nation of all believers, and essentially we have the New Testament church as the place of worship, where we would go and worship God together in the congregation. And so I don't know how you could really get away from the terminology of replacement there. When it comes to the idea of being grafted into the olive tree, I just look at that as being a part of the family of Christ, and that once you believe, you're of the seed of Abraham. And so yeah, in that context, there's no replacement. It's not like some Jewish spot I have to take over or something like that. But there is something that was replaced. It is the Old Testament nation of Israel with the spiritual nation, and then there is the Old Covenant, which the promises that were made for that physical nation have been replaced with the new promises of the New Covenant, which is a New Testament, it's a better testament according to the Bible. And some people believe in dual covenant theology, and I think that replacement theology makes it clear how we contrast. We don't believe that the Old Testament is still effect or going, but it's been replaced by the New Testament specifically. And so I love that term. Do you like that term? I think what I was trying to articulate earlier, this Andrew Sluder thing, where the Old Covenant is like in abeyance, but then it'll return back during the millennium, or there'll be some kind of third covenant for the Jews or something like that. It's total nonsense, but I totally agree with what you're saying. And just to add the scripture that popped into my mind in 1 Peter 2, in verse 9, where it says, But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, and holy nation of peculiar people, which should show forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvelous light. Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God, which had not attained mercy, but now have attained mercy. So you have a group of people who were not regarded as chosen in the Old Testament, but in the New Testament, the only catalyst for that is to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. That's one of the many reasons why the New Testament is better, is that if you believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, you're part of the spiritual nation. Whereas in the Old Testament, to be part of that chosen nation, it was more than just believing. I mean, if you believe, you're saved. But you had to get circumcised, you had to physically move there, immigrate there, and actually follow those laws. Let's take another quick caller as we wrap up. We have a brother, AJ, on the line from Chicago, and he wanted to ask a question about Zionism as well. AJ, how's it going? Good. Can you guys hear me? Yes sir, loud and clear. All right. So my question was, I recently saw on the internet a series of posts, like kind of people that are against Zionism, saying that the Masoretic Text was corrupted by the Jews and stuff. And obviously, I don't think that's correct. I believe the Masoretic Text is the preserved word of God. And I kind of wanted to hear what you guys had to say about that, if there was any good resources that would defend the Masoretic Text and the validity of those Jewish conspiracies against the Scriptures. I think Pastor Anderson is probably more of an expert on this issue than I am, but from my understanding, there's not necessarily going to be corroborating evidence of the Masoretic Text that we can just all scientifically just say, this is it. I think it's kind of an argument from faith, in essence, that this argument between the Hebrew Text and the Greek Text really goes back a long time ago. I mean, even with Jerome, when he was writing the Bible in the Latin, is arguing, I think, with Origen and some other individuals on, should we use the Septuagint or use the Hebrew? And so, you know, fast forward another 1,700 years, and we're still having this particular argument. I think that we have to rely on what the text says about the Bible. A lot of the Bible's verses on preservation were in Hebrew. When we think about Psalm 12, 6, and 7, we think about, Forever thy word is settled in heaven. When we think about Isaiah, what is it, Isaiah 59? Yeah, when it talks about how the words are not going to depart out of his mouth. I mean, these are Hebrew texts that had those verses in them, so, you know, to me, it's either you believe that or you don't. Jesus making reference to jot or tittle. Yeah, jot or tittle in the New Testament, that's a good point. I kind of recommended to Pastor Anderson to preach a sermon on this subject, like about the Hebrew and the Greek being preserved specifically and all the internal evidences. I'm sure you have a lot of thoughts there. What are kind of your opinions on this subject? Yeah, I mean, first of all, this isn't even really a serious debate at all because it's already so settled, and if you walk into any bookstore in America and grab any English Bible off the shelf, 100% of them are translating from the Masoretic Hebrew text in the Old Testament. It's just that simple because, you know, there's nothing special about the Masoretic Hebrew. It's just the Hebrew text. That's the Hebrew Bible. So people who are saying that the Hebrew text is corrupt are saying that we should instead be using the Greek Septuagint, okay? And the thing about that is that, like I said, no English Bible is using the Greek Septuagint as its Old Testament basis because it's pretty obvious and clear to everyone who actually knows what they're talking about that the Septuagint is inferior to the Hebrew Bible in every way. And so, you know, again, you get some bozos on the Internet bringing up this debate or talking about this, but amongst people that are serious, you know, you're not really going to find this being up for debate. You know, the modern versions, unfortunately, will think that the Hebrew text is corrupt in certain places and maybe, like, correct it here and there from the Greek Septuagint, but, and of course they're wrong to do so because obviously the Hebrew text has been preserved by God and kept pure in every generation. But again, you know, actually going all the way over to the Greek Septuagint as your Old Testament text is just something that virtually no one wants to do that actually cares about and reads the Bible because it's an absurd proposition. Now, and as far as going back to the debate, it was between Jerome and Augustine. Oh, Augustine, I'm sorry, I misspoke. Yeah, so Augustine did believe that the Septuagint should be the basis for our Old Testament and Jerome was pushing for the original Hebrew. Jerome won the argument and the Latin Vulgate ended up being translated from the original Hebrew. As far as it being corrupted by Jews or something, it's just a dumb, silly talking point of bozos on the Internet. They're probably also flat earth or whatever. It's just, it's kind of just a dumb thing. It's not really, I'm serious, it's just not really a serious thing. And again, but as far as the evidence that they're wrong, Christ said, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law till all be fulfilled. And that is a reference to the Hebrew text because the jot is referring to the letter Yod, which is one of the letters of the Hebrew alphabet. It's the smallest letter of the Hebrew alphabet, as far as physically how much room it takes up on the page. And then the tittle is literally the Greek word underlying our English word tittle there in the Bible. It literally means horn, like H-O-R-N. And it's basically the distinguishing marks that go on Hebrew letters to differentiate two similar letters from one another. So they have this little keria or horn or tittle that differentiates one letter from another. So Jesus is clearly talking about the preservation of the Hebrew text. And like I said, if all Christians virtually that are actually saved and actually preaching the gospel for the last many centuries or even millennia have all been using the Hebrew text in the Old Testament, and then we're just going to switch now in 2024 because some guy on the Internet says there's a Jewish conspiracy to corrupt it. OK, because who has used the Septuagint over the last few millennia? You know, a bunch of false teaching corrupt churches and they're not English speaking. So, you know, it's not an English Bible, but, you know, yeah, the Greek Orthodox or something, you know. But when it comes to actual saved evangelicals, Baptists, the whole history of America, everybody's been reading and preaching from and, you know, being blessed by the Hebrew Old Testament translated into English in the form of our King James Bible. And so, you know, it's a silly argument. It doesn't mean anybody can just say whatever they want and just, oh, yeah, well, you know, it's actually the Greek. You know, I could just say, well, no, it's the Ethiopic. It's the only right one. No, no, the Hebrew is bad. It's got to be Latin. You can just make things up. But at the end of the day, we all know the Bible was originally written in Hebrew in the Old Testament, Greek in the New Testament, and it's been providentially preserved and kept pure in all ages. It's that simple. It's interesting how you bring up, there are some, I guess, isolated places in the Old Testament where they appeal to the Septuagint, and it's kind of funny to me because the critical text people want to reject 1 John 5, 7 supposedly on the grounds that there is insufficient evidence for it in the Greek, but then their Bibles will, like, completely leave the Hebrew in some places, unless I'm wrong about that, Pastor Anderson, if you want to clarify, but it appears that, yeah, it appears that they, in the Old Testament in some areas, will appeal to the Septuagint rather than the Hebrew. Well, and it makes absolutely no sense to say that the translation is superior to the original because, you know, the Greek Septuagint is translated from the Hebrew Bible. And what you'd have to believe is you'd have to believe that basically the real Hebrew Bible has ceased to exist and that all we have is just a corrupt Hebrew Bible, but that the Greek translation from a Hebrew text that no longer exists is where God has preserved his word, and funny how virtually the only people who are using it are unsaved people. Yeah, that is interesting. Like, you'd really have to believe some wild things in order to believe that God preserved the translation, but he didn't preserve the original, and it's a translation that, you know, saved people don't use. Yeah, and my whole point was, if you need evidence in the original languages, in the Greek and Hebrew, if you need evidence for 1 John 5-7 in the Greek, then why do you also accept readings that totally depart from the original language in the Old Testament? That was kind of my thing, but yeah, that's very interesting that you bring up. Well, that's a good question. It's exactly what they're doing. They are being hypocrites and selectively deciding when they're going to go with the majority and when they're going to go with minority readings. That's a good question, and some of these battles are kind of like an every generation battle. It seems like, like I said, I kind of mentioned back how in the past there's been a critical text fight, and it just keeps going. And hopefully, even though I don't know if it'll ever go away completely, at least maybe we can kind of diminish the enemy on these issues, you know, whether it be which text to use or Zionism. And I personally think that Zionism is really in a bad place. They're up against the ropes. I think that the more and more that we talk about these things, make documentaries, but even just the normies are starting to kind of wake up. And I want to play one more clip here, just because I kind of find it funny, but at Charlie Kirk, one of his events, somebody just came up and asked him some questions. But I just thought that this was a really funny troll, because here's the thing. If you mention Jews or anti-Semitism or any of this kind of stuff, or question anything, Charlie Kirk will just throw you out of his event. So you kind of have to be coy, but it's kind of funny how even when they're throwing people out, people like this sneak in there and see if you can kind of catch what this guy was getting at. What a racist question that was. So I got a quick and fun, lighthearted question for you, Charlie. So I know you gave a speech in Jerusalem earlier this year. Yes, I did. Were there any, like, awesome, fun dance parties that you guys had afterwards? I heard that Israelis are some of the best dancers in the world. I mean, if you guys don't believe me, just Google dancing Israelis. It's insane how good they're dancing. Would you agree or disagree with that? Israel is a beautiful country, a great country, too. Yes, they're our greatest ally. Correct. Thanks for being here tonight. Next question. Thank you for being here tonight. Next question. That's awesome. Yeah, I got that for sure. What should we do, Vin? I mean, I don't know. You tell me. Google dancing Israelis. Oh, that's right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. What will that lead me to? The dancing Israelis could lead you down a very interesting rabbit hole, without question. I feel like we have an episode coming up that's going to talk about this. September the 10th, mark your calendars as we may actually go down the rabbit hole ourselves here on The Baptist Bias and talk about dancing Israelis for a little while in the Israeli connection at 9-11. Well, I'm excited about our show because we actually have a special guest that's going to be coming on. Richard Gage, he was originally with the architects and engineers group. I think he spun off and has his own group now. But somebody has been instrumental in 9-11 and some of the stuff that's going on there. But 9-11 is still relevant in the context of Zionism and what's going on. And so I think it'll be a fun show. Yeah, I don't know that you'll catch him saying the Jews did 9-11 or anything, but he'll definitely give you a perspective on it from an architectural side and kind of talk about that aspect. So it'll be fun. Have you ever googled dancing Israelis, Pastor Anderson? Yeah, I mean, I've seen it. That's old school, man. He's been there, done that. ADL already has an article about this. They were there to film. No, I like your clip. There's some clip of you that got clipped out where some guy visits your church and he's arguing with you about war or something like that. And you're like, I thought that the Lord brought you here about 9-11. Do you remember what I'm talking about? Somebody in the crowd was offended at your sermon about Chris Kyle, the American sniper, because you were preaching against him for killing people in the Middle East, and he got mad about it. And then 9-11 was brought up, and he said 9-11 was the justification to go to Iraq, and then you kind of... Do you know what we're talking about? Oh, yeah, absolutely. Basically, I'm preaching and this guy kind of starts to heckle me from the crowd or argue with me. And I just decided to kind of go back and forth with the guy and just kind of just have a civil discussion with the guy during the sermon. So I'm just kind of interacting with the guy. And it ended up amicably. I ended up talking to the guy after the service, and he was agreeing with me and stuff. So he kind of ended up coming over to my side, actually. That's good. Even though he kind of got upset during the sermon and interrupted the sermon and everything, I kind of just chose to turn it into a teaching moment. And yeah, like I said, the guy ended up being cool afterward and actually coming over to my side. But at one point, the highlight was when I asked, and back then we had a camera in the back that could view the entire crowd. And I'm like, how many people in here believe the official version on 9-11? Yeah, I remember that. No one answered. And then I'm like, how many people believe that 9-11 was an inside job? And literally just like 200. 200 hands go up, and I'm just like, hey, look around, man. I think I heard some guy shout like, wake up, or something. Somebody got a little rambunctious in the crowd there. That's funny. Yeah, so it was just kind of a famous little 10-20 second clip for a while, just showing the raise of hands. Yeah. That was funny. We should do that sample poll at Greg Locke's church. I'd be interested to see what the response would be. About anything Israelis, or what? Yeah. How many here believe the official story of 9-11? That would be a funny thing to do in his church, just to see what would happen. Now, thank you so much for coming on the show. I think we've made it clear Zionism's not going in the right direction. And that's a good thing. It's a good thing that the truth is rising, and even more normal people. I think that a lot of Christians and fundamental Baptists need to realize that their congregations, a lot of these younger people, they're not really falling for the 1948 anymore, and we need to look to the Bible for what we believe on these issues. Before we sign off, is there anything you want to plug? What's your rumble, or how do they find your website, Pastor Anderson? I don't even know anymore, man. I can't even find my own preaching anymore. Obviously, if you go to rumble, you can type in Pastor Steven Anderson, Faithful Word Baptist Church. It all comes up on rumble. But the thing that I would like to plug the most is probably just our missions conference in November. We've got a great missions conference coming up November 6th through 10th. In fact, you're going to be there, Pastor Shelley. You're going to be preaching on Friday night. At the end of the day, we're all about winning people to Christ, and we just want to get people saved. We just want to preach the gospel of Jesus Christ all over the world and here in America. We want to get everybody saved, whether they're Jews, Muslims, Hindus, atheists, whatever. We want to get them saved. We love people. We love the lost. The missions conference, I think, is a really fun conference. It's a lot of really uplifting, edifying preaching. It's really motivating to get out and want to get people saved afterward. I want to plug one other thing for you, because you're coming to Houston Friday. You're preaching at Pure Words Baptist Church this Friday. What is this day? August 23rd, 7 p.m., Pure Words Baptist Church. They're actually moving their midweek service to Friday. So instead of having it on Thursday like they normally do, we're just going to move it to Friday. Pastor Anderson is going to be coming and preaching. And this is a great opportunity to visit Pure Words Baptist Church. September 1st, I'm going to be ordaining Brother Salvador Alvarez as the pastor of Pure Words and letting go and allowing them to be independent. It'll still be Pure Words Baptist Church, but I'll just no longer be the pastor. It'll be Pastor Salvador Alvarez. And here's a great opportunity to hear Pastor Anderson preach in Houston. So if you're anywhere in Texas, Houston, go check it out. Pure Words Baptist Church. The address is 14567 Main Street, Houston proper. So we'd love for you to come out there and visit. Again, 14567 Main Street. You can go to PureWordsBaptist.com, and you can check that out as well. Is there anything you wanted to plug, Ben, before we sign off? No, all I want to say is that the inspiration for tonight's show was simply that there seems to be a cultural shift on this issue amongst some of these political personalities We noticed it. Tucker Carlson has been asking questions lately. We heard the clips from Candace Owens, and so what sparked the question, is Zionism dying? I think it'll always be around going into the end times. But I do think a growing number of these political people and some of these influencers are beginning to notice some things, and that's a good thing. As far as our fundamental Baptist brethren, who I love, I'm just curious how many generations of Jews have to die and go to hell before they also start to ask some questions, before they also start to realize that this narrative that they came back to the land in unbelief and would one day be turned to belief again is dubious at best. That's what I'm trying to figure out here. And hopefully they will repent and get this thing right soon. But regardless, I think it was an interesting discussion tonight. We talked about the theological aspect, we talked about the cultural aspect, and I enjoyed hearing your perspective, Pastor Shelley, and also Pastor Anderson's perspective as well on this. You guys bring an educated background and a lot of knowledge on the subject matter. Well, thanks again so much to our special guest, Pastor Anderson, for coming on the show. Thanks, Ben, for doing our Daniel series and everything there. Also, again, if you'd like one of our shirts before we can get our store and everything up and running, another way, we're going to do a free giveaway to those who sign up on our locals. So if you sign up on our locals and you get plugged in, then send us an email with your shirt size and address, then we can send you out a shirt. Also, I want to plug, hey, The Baptist Bias is back in season. Tuesday nights, 8 p.m., we have another special guest coming on tomorrow, or not tomorrow, but next week. We do have a special show, though, on Friday. I have a special guest, Raw Egg Nationalist from Twitter is going to be joining us. It's a show in the middle of the day, noon Central Time. So please tune in live. We love to have live people in. Sometimes we take callers, sometimes we take some of the chats, but we like to have you in there. We had over 100 people on Twitter. We had around 300 people on Rumble watching, and so I definitely really appreciate our audience for checking in and watching. Can I get a shirt? Yeah, if you pay. Oh, all right. I thought I could get a freebie. Well, terrorists, you've got to pay to play. All right. So we can't even get Ben a shirt here. Someone get Ben a shirt. Okay. We're struggling that bad. Yeah. That's fine. That's all right. The economy's tough these days. I get it. Yeah, yeah. But thank you again so much for everybody for tuning in to our show. That's going to do it for us this evening on The Baptist Bias. Everyone's got a perspective, but if you're a Zionist, get The Baptist Bias. We'll be right back.