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🎵Music🎵 🎵Music🎵 🎵Music🎵 🎵Music🎵 🎵Music🎵 🎵Music🎵 🎵Music🎵 🎵Music🎵 🎵Music🎵 🎵Music🎵 🎵Music🎵 This program is intended for mature audiences. Parental discretion is advised. Thanks everybody for joining us on The Baptist Bias. I'm your host, Pastor Shelley, and we're gonna be talking about spiritual warfare this evening. A lot to talk about. Crazy week. The world is just on fire, Ben. What do you have to say? Well, it seems like the United States is on a bobsled to hell, and unfortunately this week there's been some spiritual warfare that has happened. But you know what? Whenever there's a controversy, whenever something big is going on, I don't know about you, but I just get fired up, and I'm fired up tonight. I'm ready to go. Let's talk about the topic at hand. Pastor Shelley, you'll be leading the way. I'm ready! Not only is it literal spiritual warfare, or I'm sorry, spiritual warfare, we have literal warfare. I think, can you pull up my screen? I don't know if they had this right. Iran! In Drudge Report, headlines, Holy Land war zone, missile attack on Israel, Iran military failure. How close are we to the election? I mean, we've got to be super close to the election. Yeah, we're getting real close. I mean, November 5th's right around the door. And we see some geopolitical activities going on. Both candidates are super pro-Israel. Yes. No matter who wins, I don't think it affects this, because I do believe Trump, there's a lot of things I like about him, but I do think one of his biggest drawbacks is he is just as likely as Kamala to draw us into a war with Iran, potentially. I mean, I don't even know that I believe that the elections are real. I think they probably know, I mean they're not gonna drum up war with the uncertainty of the election screwing that up, so they probably already know who's gonna be selected. And I honestly, I don't even know who's gonna win. I think, I mean, what is your opinion? Do you think it is like for sure Kamala? Do you think Trump has a chance? Like, what is, what is your opinion on this? I'm gonna say Kamala steals the election. Okay. And becomes the next president of these United States of America. So we get a, so we get a literal whore to lead us into the end times? We will have a whore leading the whore of Babylon into the end times. Let's get the chat involved. Who thinks Trump or Kamala? I'm just kind of curious. TK. This is not who you're voting for folks. This is who you think is going to win the election. And I'm not saying like they would have won and got stolen. I'm saying like who will be selected basically in your opinion. T or K. I think if it was a fair election Trump would for sure win, don't you? I 100% agree with that. So I guess it's just how they want these things to go down. I'm seeing a lot of Trump actually. We see, why Mrs. Trump? We've got... Mrs. Trump? J Bro Stooch is for Trump. We got this, it's T's all around. I mean man, everybody's just, everybody thinks, oh no somebody said it was Kamala. Okay yeah there we go. Well the chat disagrees with us. That's all right. I hope the chat is right, frankly speaking. I really do. I would like to see Trump win over Kamala. Oh there's another, there's another Kamala. Hey here's the themed verse of our podcast. I want to quote this before we move forward. Ephesians 6 verse 12. For we wrestle not against flesh and blood but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places, and as Christians that is the battle we are called to engage in. The spiritual warfare, Pastor Shelley, and all of us I think have felt just a little bit of that spiritual warfare, especially over the last few days. Yeah and you know, I'm not, I'm not really wanting to, you know, just name-drop and just pick on people or, or do things, but I think it'd be beneficial tonight to just kind of just, just take a second and just kind of talk about what spiritual warfare looks like, what are things that happen in that, and we might actually get really spicy on a couple of comments here, so parental discretion advised, you know, we put it out there so you can't, you can't get mad at me. If you, if you don't like talking about sensitive topics you should just go ahead and just hit the end, just close it out, just go watch ladies knit sweaters or something like that, or watch kittens on TikTok or something, but you know, if you actually want to talk about something real, if you're, if you're worried, if you're nervous, you should just go ahead and click off right away, but we're gonna, we're gonna talk about some difficult subjects this evening. Yes. One thing I want to say- I want some heat on us, I want some heat, you know, the heat's been on a lot of other people, bring it to us tonight, all right? I want to say this, I think that, you know, when it comes to, when it comes to talking about issues, people can have different opinions, and it's okay to have different opinions, but I think that we should always try to be respectful, even when we have a dissenting opinion, or we're gonna attack somebody, and especially someone that's saved, you know, if you think that someone saved and has done something wrong, you know, the Bible says to restore such and one in the spirit of meekness, and of course I think in the Bible there's a lot of precedent for treating pastors, you know, with respect and with, with care and with honor, especially ones that have done you good, that have blessed you, that have helped you, and, and I've seen a lot of people attacking pastors that have greatly blessed them, and, and they're not attacking them in a, in like a respectful way, they're just, they're lashing out, they're believing all kinds of different accusations against them, and to me, you know, I can see if I was gonna have to call someone out that I really care about, that I really love, that, or that I can understand that is in a difficult position, to say something with grace, to just say, you know what, I think this pastor has an issue, and I think they should address that, and I really appreciate them, and love them, and I'm sure this is really hard for them, you know, when someone says something like, you know, everybody is just a bunch of Kool-Aid drinkers, and this person has no character, and these people are a bunch of cult followers, and blah blah, to me it doesn't even seem sincere at all, it doesn't seem like that person actually is being genuine about the situation, and it seems like they're just, they're trying to provoke you, they're trying to cause you to make some kind of a rash decision, or get carnal, or kind of like fight back, or something like that, and you know, I fall victim of this just as much as the next guy, but I think that, you know, we should allow people to just provoke us into making a decision based on bullying us, or intimidating us, and be like, you're a coward, you know, you're weak, and you're pathetic, and you're a specter of persons, and just like basically just trying to accuse you of being a bad person, when you have to make difficult decisions. Hey, oh by the way, we're on air. Is the light not working? Oh there we go. We're on air folks, okay. We're officially on air because, sorry, you can't even see that, our audience can't even see that. The sign was not on, that's what he was referring to folks. But I think that it makes sense to, you know, be pretty gracious, and pretty kind to people, even when you oppose them, or you differ with them, you know, what do you, what do you think about this? Well of course, and I think people need to understand the art of agree to disagree. You know, you're not going to turn every single person who opposes the position you currently hold to your side, it's just not gonna happen. And there's been plenty of people that I've conversed with over the last few days who disagree with me, I disagree with them, etc. But you know, I still love them, and everything's fine. So I feel like there has to be a sense of understanding that says, you know what, we're not gonna see eye-to-eye on everything, but that doesn't mean that the other person is evil, or wicked, or unsaved, or something like that. And I do think it's funny that we're often accused of this, like, you have to be in total lockstep with your pastor in the new IFB, or else you're going to be declared unsaved, reprobate, heretic, whatever, but that's not the case at all. And I think I've experienced this, I've seen people literally walk up to Pastor Shelley right after he's done preaching, and tell him that they disagree with something. I've literally seen in other fellowship events people for like 30 minutes, 45 minutes, going back and forth with Pastor Shelley on a passage of Scripture that they disagree with his interpretation on. I've seen it happen, okay? So this idea that you have to be 100% in alignment with the spiritual authority in new IFB churches is not true. And yes, we should show respect to those who we disagree with, especially pastors, and I would agree with that. And you know, of course, I see sometimes people will be gracious to people, but it's like they're only gracious to one group of people, or their people, or something like that, and I think, you know, we just have to essentially be kind to people that we don't even necessarily agree with sometimes. I want to, I want to, I will say, I will say that somebody in the chat room says, I agree, but I still don't want to be friends with idiots who think trannies and Absalom are bearing truth. Look, that's fine. You should be friends with whoever you want to be friends with. I didn't say being friends, the whole point is not being friends. It's just being respectful of that person. Be friends with whoever you want to be friends with. Again, and I'm not saying be respectful to every person. Obviously we need to call it heretics, and false prophets, and weirdos, and stuff like that, and sometimes we have to approve and rebuke. I'm just simply saying, if this is a person that you've actually cared about, if this is a person that's done you good, if this is a person that's helped you in many ways, and you have to approach them, it makes sense to be pretty gracious and pretty respectful even when you have to make a difficult decision, because otherwise it doesn't seem sincere. It seems like you already had hatred in your heart. It seems like you already had bitterness in your heart, and you were waiting for an opportunity to attack them as opposed to actually being sincere, and you know, I think that unfortunately a lot of people are just kind of waiting for an opportunity to expose their hatred or their bitterness, and so sometimes when things happen they're not even really as mad about the situation. They're just, they were just already mad, and they were just kind of already bitter towards a particular individual, and I think it's important as Christians that we're not harboring bitterness towards individuals, because then that turns into anger and wrath, and and it's really just a work of the flesh. I think it's important, you know, that we don't have all this bitterness so then when spiritual warfare happens, when we're in a battle, when we're in a fight, when it's getting dirty, that we don't already have all this bitterness and anger and resentment built up, and then we just allow that to just unleash on people, and really, you know, sin, because we shouldn't return railing for railing and evil for evil. We should do our best to, even when someone smites us on the cheek, turn the other cheek, right Ben? Yeah, the Bible says having compassion one of another, and that's an important attribute to have for sure, Pastor Shelley. We're gonna feel slighted at times, but you know, at the end of the day, Jesus Christ did say, love your enemies. I guess we're gonna take call-ins, 231 Baptist, if you want to call. I'll be honest though, I don't want to necessarily call any individual out, but if you want to ask questions about certain situations or topics, I'm welcome or, you know, even doctrine, we're willing to talk about that on the show. I saw there was other podcasts that people were doing where they're just like bringing any guest on to just make any railing accusation they could possibly make, and you know, I think that's dishonorable, and I'm not gonna participate in something like that, and I'm not gonna do that, so if, you know, people want to just say horrible, evil things about people that are unsubstantiated, like, I'm not interested in something like that. But of course, if you'd like to call in, we'll take your question, we'll do our best. 231 Baptist, we really appreciate our, we really appreciate our guests, and you know, I'm sure that there's some people in here watching the show that hate me and hate our show, and they don't. There's hate watchers. There's a lot of people, you know, this is what's so funny to me. There's certain pastors that everybody claims, like, they want this person to step down, or they hate him, or whatever, and they're mad at them, but I think that it's actually the exact opposite. I think they'd be so sad, because they would be like, they would have nothing to do. What are they gonna do with their life? They would have nothing to do with their life. I mean, you spend all day, every day, talking about one person, obsessing over one person, hating on one person, and then that one person is gone. They need this person for their life. It's Trump derangement syndrome, spiritual addition. Yeah, exactly, and you know, admittedly, that person is a huge shield. Like, I don't think that people realize that, you know, whoever's the tip of the spear physically, carnally, spiritually, all these different things, they're just, they're just wielding all of these tacks that just keep coming at them, and if they go, it's just whoever's the next tip of the spear. They're not gonna stop, and so in many cases, it's that person's actually helping you a lot of times, and you don't even realize it, you know, and I think, like, a lot of people get mad at Steadfast Baptist Church, or, you know, but I'm saying, like, you know, there's a lot of churches in this area that are probably not being attacked only because we exist, and if we didn't exist, then these people would go and attack them, and our horde of protesters that attacked us for years and years, they've attacked liberal churches. They've attacked, like, the nom churches, and they've attacked all kinds of institutions, and so, like, it's not like we're the only church in the world that people hate or something, or that, you know, Sodomites hate, you know, they hate people that just even like the Bible, let alone someone that's gonna preach Leviticus 2013. And of course, again, friendly reminder, friendly reminder, this is going to be a spicy show. We're gonna talk about some uncomfortable things, and if you don't want to hear it, please tune out. Don't listen. We don't want you to hear it, you know, if you're gonna get really offended about us talking about all kinds of things, then just just go away. Hey, one thing that makes me mad. Can I say one thing very quickly? Yes. 2019, there was a church split in steadfast Jacksonville. Yes, huge church split. It's like 50-50 almost, it's maybe like 55-45. Is that fair? It was, it was fair. What you're saying is fair. You had mentioned earlier that people who already have kind of a resentment are going to be predisposed to behave a certain way when something like this happens, and I just want to mention that in 2019, what you said is what played out, because those who split off from our church to a man, every single one of them had already had bitterness and hatred, really, for the new IFB movement, and so it was no coincidence that it was all those people who then ended up splitting off and going with a defecting faction to go start a different church. So I just wanted to back up your point there that I've seen that play out myself in prior conflicts. So I want to say one thing. I'll be honest, something that's just been boiling inside of me and making me really mad is all these women trying to teach me what the Bible says online, and you know, it's just, it's like, is that what we need in this world? Is the problem with the new IFB, or is the problem with me, or the problem with pastors out there, is we don't have enough women counselors? Like, if we could just listen to the women teach us what the Bible says, then we could finally, you know, overcome the enemies, and we could get right with God, and we would finally do something right. I mean, like, is that really the issue that we have? Is that we just don't have enough women telling us all what to do and explaining to us what the Bible says? And look, if you're already offended, you better click off of this broadcast. Like, you're gonna, you're gonna hate it. You're gonna get super, super, super offended, and you know, I just, just, I'm gonna go ahead and start the escalation process that women shouldn't wear pants, they should wear dresses and skirts. So if you're, I just want to make sure you're gonna get offended each statement that I make. So I'm just, I'm just gonna make it clear, like, I believe the Bible teaches that women should not wear pants ever, that they should wear dresses and skirts, and Deuteronomy 22 says that if a woman puts on a garment that's a man's garment, she's an abomination. That's what the Bible says. Now it doesn't say skirt or dress, it just says if a woman wears that which pertaineth unto a man, and in that same passage, it says that a man's skirt is his wife. So it uses a literal skirt to denote a woman, and I believe that that is a pretty clear indication of what garment that we're talking about. So if you don't like that, you know, you can just go ahead and just click off, tune off. Women should not wear pants, shorts, they should wear dresses and skirts. Now of course people say like, what about leggings? Leggings are just underwear. Of course you can wear them, not wear them, but you should wear them with a skirt over or a dress over, and so you know, that's not a valid argument that people would make, and you know, I'm gonna get spicier as the show goes on, so just be really, really careful. I just want to make sure that, you know, our sensitive ear audience is prepared and they can't accuse me of not warning them multiple times, okay? Yeah, I'll say, so here's here's my second, if you're not already tuned off, seems like we keep growing in number, I'll also say this, I don't believe women should vote. So you know, I don't think that that makes sense. Historically women didn't wear pants and they didn't wear shorts, in fact it was even illegal in many places in America and they would be arrested. Not only that, without the amendments, it's the 19th amendment, women wouldn't even have the right to vote in America, and so you know, if we if we keep rolling back the clock in American history, we roll back a lot of feminism, and I believe that feminism is destroying our nation, and that it's a satanic movement and agenda, okay? So you know, I just want to keep rolling some of these things back and triggering you with what, in many places the Bible teaches from a principle perspective, but let alone was believed in historical society. And you know, people love America, but it's like you have to realize why America was great is because women weren't voting, and it's because women wear dresses and skirts. That was the American, everybody's like, oh we want to go back to the 1950s, oh when women were not wearing pants, like is that really what you want to go back to? And if we go back a little bit further, you know, we'll realize that women weren't voting, and so I'm gonna keep peeling back some of these things, and of course it's gonna trigger a lot of people. I'll also say this, women should never teach the Bible in a church setting, and they should never be a preacher or a pastor. All of them are wrong. All of it is bad. I don't agree with it. Women should not teach men the Bible in a church setting ever, and I think the Bible is really, really clear on that particular subject, and so, you know, I just want to make a few of those things clear. Now, here's the thing, whenever you're in a spiritual warfare, this is what I've noticed, that a lot of women come out of the woodwork just blowing off their mouth and just saying all kinds of stuff. They're some of the worst railers, the worst slanderers, and they have the gift of gab, but boy, I mean, they will just put everything that ever came into their mind and then some, and it is nasty. It is really, really nasty, and you know, I think it's frankly speaking, first Timothy's chapter number five, it says they're tattlers and busybodies, and that they're influenced by the devil, and what's interesting is, like, the other side never seems to believe this doctrine. Like, I never see, you know, when people are attacking us and stuff, I never see them trying to call out women for being busybodies or tattlers or gossips or railers, and I'm just wondering, like, do they even believe that exists? Do they even believe that there's any women that are guilty of being a busybody or a gossip or a tailbearer? Like, I'm just kind of curious, like, does that even exist for many of the people that attack the new IFB or hate new IFB preachers or hate independent vulnerable Baptists even? I mean, they just run their mouth, run their mouth, and then it's funny, you call them out and then they act like, oh, I'm being attacked. Like, how is that fair? How is that fair to have a woman just run her mouth constantly and then we can't say anything? If you're gonna put yourself in the middle of the battle, if you're gonna put yourself in the middle of the arena where the men are engaged in combat, don't whine about it if somebody decides to make an offensive move against you. And the reality is, you want to blow your mouth off all over social media 24-7. Don't you have a husband to serve? Don't you have some kids to take care of? It really is amazing to be how much free time a lot of these loudmouth women have to blow their mouth off all over social media. Yeah, I want to pull up a verse here and, you know, think about how dishonorable it is to be in a battle or a fight and, like, just put your wife in between you and the person you're fighting and let her fight for you. Or, like, can you imagine getting behind your wife and letting her shield you in any kind of a conflict? And, you know, of course the Bible doesn't necessarily address every hypothetical, but it does address one thing, and it says in Deuteronomy 25 verse 11, when men strive together, one with another, and the wife of the one draweth near for to deliver her husband out of the hand of him that smiteth him, and putteth forth her hand and taketh them by the secrets, then thou shalt cut off her hand, thine eyes shall not pity. So, according to the Old Testament law, it was dishonorable for a woman to essentially involve herself in a physical confrontation between two men and not only involve herself, but specifically, you know, kind of taking a cheap shot here is kind of the euphemism I would use, but basically doing something really inappropriate. And, of course, you know, the reason why she would do something like that is women aren't capable of overpowering a man. She wouldn't be able to just wrestle him to the ground or punch him out or something, like, that's not going to happen. But what a woman could do is take kind of this, quote, cheap shot and still win a fight. And, of course, if a woman was in grave danger, if a woman was being attacked by one of these Muslim immigrants in Europe or something, then go for these cheap shots, right? Like, she should defend herself. She should try to get away. This is a way for women to basically, you know, preserve their life in a really extreme, dangerous situation. But this is something that she doesn't involve her. She's going in there, yeah, low blow. She's coming in there, taking low blows. And I feel like that principle can also apply when there's some kind of a conflict, even a verbal conflict or a spiritual conflict or an online conflict where it's like women and interject themselves into conflicts and then take cheap shots and they say things that are just, you know, not appropriate. And it's like in the Old Testament law, obviously, in a physical context, they would have a punishment. And I think, like, how is it then not fair to call them out? Just just literally just say, like, that's not right or this isn't something you should do. Like, how is that principle not established? I mean, don't you think that that's a fair comparison, Ben? I think it's a metaphor. What's happening right now is analogous to that passage in the sense that you have women who are getting involved in a fight and they're taking low blows and cheap shots through railing, gossiping, false accusations, et cetera. And you're pointing out the comparison between Deuteronomy Chapter 25 and what a lot of these ladies act like online. Here's what you're not saying. You're not literally calling for somebody to chop their hand off. Anybody with a brain in their head realizes it is a metaphor for what is happening on the Internet, for what is happening online. And you're making an application with that passage. I mean, just reading the verse out loud, people will falsely accuse me of believing it literally. I mean, I remember there was a time where I said this in a sermon and, like, the next words that came out of my mouth were not literally. And then all these people ran with the fact that I said it as a literal thing. And it's just like you can't caveat things. You could just say, like, I could have a shirt that says, like, not literal, a hat that says not literal. I could have a banner going on the screen that says, this is a joke, satire, metaphor, not serious. And then people would be like, this is this person's dead serious. This is exactly what they said. And it's just them lying and railing and just making stuff up and just being really extreme. And it's just a try. It's just a try and discredit you. And, you know, the slander and the railing is just it's gonna happen in spiritual warfare. And I think that in any conflict, it's possible for both sides to be guilty of this. So don't hear me wrong. I think that you're never gonna have a clean fight, probably, unfortunately. And we'd love to have that. But sometimes it's gonna be some cheap shots on both sides. Sometimes you're gonna have slander and railing on both sides. And we want to make sure that we're being honest and fair with that. But it seems like, most of the time, there's one side that is just over the top, just filled with slander, railing, not precise with wording, just basically just letting the carnal man come out, the old man come out, and just say anything and everything. And of course, you then have a mixture of actual, like, haters, reprobates, non-Christians, atheists, Satanists, all these other people who also then just add even more kindling and fuel to the fire and just basically embolden one side. And what is interesting is, like, when you have on one side all of the God-hating weirdos and freaks and enemies and stuff like that, I think it should caution you to say, are you on the right side? Now, I'm not gonna say that, you know, there couldn't be a situation where a person does something wrong and it gives occasion of the enemies of God to blaspheme. You know, I would say, you know, steadfast had, unfortunately, its pastor, Pastor Romero, had to step down, and I'm sure a lot of enemies rejoiced over that. And, you know, that doesn't change the fact that it was the right move for him to have stepped down. And I think that that was honorable, at least, to step down, even if, you know, it was under a lot of pressure and influence, you know. Of course, he was encouraged to do so, but at the same time, you know, at least that person did that and preserved the church and, hey, you know, Steffast Baptist Church is a great church. I'll be honest, it's filled with so many great people and we've done so many great things, we've had so many missions trips, we've weathered so many incredible storms. You know, God, I feel like God has confirmed our church and has confirmed the decisions that we've made. And it would be sad for someone to get bitter against our church or hate our church when it's been doing so great, and we're we're growing, we've been breaking attendance records, we have a lot of great children and a lot of great families, and we have a missionary in the Philippines that we're supporting, and, you know, I just feel like Steffast Baptist Church is doing a lot of good things. And, you know, I'm really I'm really appreciative that I have the honor and the privilege to get to pastor that church, because a church is a group of people, and the people there are amazing. It's it's a special church, and I love those people. People that have visited us, they really praise the congregation to me, the Spirit. I've had preacher friends come preach for us that are not New IFB, don't want anything to do with the New IFB, but are just friendly, and they highly commend our Spirit and like our church and say it's really special. I've had people that aren't even, like, aren't even Baptist come to our church as guests and visit us and then really come in and say, wow, I really appreciate that Spirit, and your church is really special, and I love seeing all the children, and they're so happy. And, you know, it's a special church, and I just really I really really love the people in our church, and I think I think we have to consider the spiritual fruit of a situation, because there was a lot of controversy when we had when I took over steadfast. I mean, there was all these videos, I was making videos, other people were making videos, all these attackers, haters, and I just remember this one thing. Whoever, if it was Pastor Anderson or me, we just put a video up, it just, thousands of hater comments. It was just like thousands and thousands, just like slander and railing and mad and angry, just like, just so much vitriol, and of course so many people attacked us for how we handled that situation and got mad at us. But, you know, in hindsight, like, how could we say that that was the wrong decision when we see God bless that church so much? So many people have been blessed by this church, we've had so many babies born, we've had so many people getting saved, we have people baptized, we've had people doing great things for the Lord. I think, you know, we've weathered some really incredible storms, and, you know, I think that that's, you know, something that can help us along our journey of faith to see God walking alongside of us, helping us, and blessing us, and, and, you know, being gracious unto us. I mean, what do you think about the spiritual fruit that you've evidenced from steadfast? You've ordained people, there's been mission trips, there have been soul-winning events, the church has grown and has reached more people, and sermons have gone viral, and people have heard about us through that happening. There's been a lot that's occurred over the last few years since that 2019 incident that you're describing, and I wanted to also say that at that time, there were a lot of people who were pressuring those who stood with you, they were pressuring them to do the opposite, under threat of calling them, oh you're just a bunch of lap dogs, you're just drinking the Kool-Aid. Sound familiar, doesn't it? You're just carrying water. You're just a water boy, you're just this, you're just that, and here's something that these people don't understand, just because they're willing to stab pastors who got them saved in the back, and stab friends in the back for carnal gain, doesn't mean that I'm willing to do that, it doesn't mean that other people are willing to do that as well, so you can call me whatever you want, call me a coward, call me whatever spineless, whatever word, whatever attack, whatever railing accusation you want to levy toward me, it's fine, I will not stab pastors in the back, I will not stab my friends in the back, especially a pastor who got me saved, it is the very reason that I'm inspired to serve God today. Excuse me. Hey, and you know, the one thing I really like about you is that you're just loyal in general, and that you're not quick to just hurt somebody, because, you know, whenever this happened, you were friends with Adam Fanon, and let's just be honest, y'all were friends, and you were friendly towards each other, and there's nothing wrong with that, and for you to think that me replacing them in leadership was a difficult decision for you, and I think that that's commendable that you weren't ready to just switch on somebody on a hair trigger because you liked them, you had a friendship with them, you knew their family, this is someone that's important to you, and, you know, to struggle in that decision, to me, means that you're like a sincere person, you know, and it, you know, the thing is, is like, it would be, it would make me a little nervous if someone is like, we're best friends, and then just the next day. You can't flip the switch like that. Just like, hate them. I cannot flip the switch. No, of course, sometimes we have best friends that we, we say like, hey, I don't agree with this, I don't like that, and, you know, faith or the wounds of a friend is what the Bible says, so I'm not saying that we have to just be in lockstep and agree with every single thing that our friends do, but at the end of the day, like, it's weird to just flip on someone just right away. I think that it would have to take a lot of serious things, and here's the thing, even if I had a friend that did something wrong, I'm not gonna flip on them and being a friend, I'll just still be their friend. Like, wherever they're at, whatever the issue is, whatever the problem is, let's try to be friendly. I was trying to be friendly even to Pastor Romero when he was going through his thing. He kind of lied to me a few times, so I felt like I maybe I couldn't trust him in that, in that moment, but initially I was trying to give him a lot of benefit of the doubt, just trying to, you know, it's a, it's a rough situation, he's a real person, he has a real family, and I felt really bad about it, and you know, it just kind of sucks when you just, you just, you just, you know, attack somebody that you're a best friend just overnight. Now again, obviously, if someone stabs you in the back, like literally, you know, it could, it could, it could be a quick end to a relationship, right? And you, if the person you find out you thought was good is kind of, like Judas, he, you know, betrays thou me with a kiss, it's like, oh man, that's pretty, it's pretty rough, but you know, even if, even if I had a friend that I ended up changing my mind on, I think what's also really dishonorable is to just trash them. It's like, just like, well, you know, my friendship with this person isn't the same anymore, so now I'm just gonna say every negative thing that I could ever think about this person. I'm gonna make, like, a video and explain, like, every problem, and every issue, and every bad thing, and every hypothetical, and every opinion, like, I just think that that's also, you know, not really the right move, you know? I mean, doesn't that seem a little weird to just air out every grievance you can think about someone? It makes me think you had those grievances for years beforehand. Now, when a situation arises that you feel you can exploit, well, you feel like that situation enables you to really just let all of that bitterness bubble up to the surface finally, and reveal how you really think about someone, and again, we talked about it, you know, in 2019, this is what happened. People who already hated the new IFP defected. It's ugly, it seems like you're not very, you're not a very good friend when you do stuff like that, and I think it's better to tell people the problems you have with them in private. You don't need to necessarily tell the whole world every single issue you have with someone, and again, sometimes we need to call people out. Sometimes we have to say uncomfortable things. I'm not trying to say that I haven't done that. I'm not trying to say that we don't do that occasion, but I'm just saying it seems a little weird to just say everything, and again, and sometimes it's just, you know, in warfare, just someone just kind of gets a little bloodthirsty. Makes me think of Doeg the Edomite, where not only is he gonna kill the priest, he kills their whole family, and you're just like, what is wrong with this person? Like, not only was the entire army unwilling to kill the priests of the Lord, this guy's gonna kill them and their families. Like, this guy is loyal to the wrong person. Now, he's loyal to Saul, but he's loyal to a fault, and he's loyal to the wrong person, and he just goes, he just goes hard on the priests of God, and it's just, you know, we see kind of a pattern in the Bible of, like, not attacking men of God. You know, when Aaron and Miriam speak against Moses, God gets really, really mad. When Korah, Dathan, and Abiram talk bad about Aaron, they, he gets really, really mad. And you know, the thing is, Aaron screwed up big time. Aaron made a golden calf, Aaron caused the people of the Lord to worship the golden calf, it literally caused Moses to break the two tablets that he got from God, he got so mad at what Aaron had done, and Aaron even makes lame excuses about it. And then, just shortly after this, then Korah, Dathan, and Abiram are saying, well, we're holy, who made you guys gods and whatever, how are you lifting yourselves up above the congregation and blah blah blah, and then God literally buds the rod of Aaron. He buds it just to say, like, hey, this is my guy. Yes. And so I think that that metaphor, that spiritual example, says, you know, I'm confirming this person. And so I think that sometimes we have to look, you know, beyond the circumstances, beyond just what's happening carnally, and sometimes just consider the spiritual fruit. Now, I'm not saying that we just ignore the rest of the Bible, because, quote, spiritual fruit. I am saying, though, that it should be a factor. I am saying that I think that that is a consideration. I mean, don't you think we should at least consider the spiritual fruit when we're considering how God views things? I don't think it's a coincidence that in Numbers chapter 16, Korah's rebellion amounted to a controversy over who should be in charge, and in the very next chapter, it was Aaron's rod that budded, that served as a confirmation from God that it was Aaron who ought to be in that position. So I'm in agreement with you, Pastor Shelley, and I think that when it comes to spiritual fruit, it should play a factor, it should play a factor in determining whether or not an individual and their ministry has in fact been confirmed. We're doing call-ins, 231 Baptist, if you want to ask a question. We're gonna try and keep it limited to just, you know, big picture. We don't really like name-drop or talk about other people, because that's, I don't think that's the right thing to do. We do have someone that's in the call, and I'm gonna wait a second to go to them, because they want to talk about Romans 9, and I'm sure we'd love to talk about that. I just want to kind of finish this point, and then we can kind of take a side break, and then we'll get into some spicy stuff here in a moment. But I do want to say, you know, the spiritual fruit is important because sometimes we can't always know what's right, and even the Bible tells us that we're supposed to, beloved believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God, because many false prophets are gone out into the world. So the Bible literally tells us that we're supposed to test false prophets by their spirit, and what that spirit indicates for us. Now that's that's probably the most extreme situation, is we're trying to determine if this person is maybe a saved person or a saved pastor, preaching the right gospel, and we're testing his spirit. But I think that this particular application is also a principle that's taught in many places in the Bible that we should just kind of test the spirit. And when I see people slandering and railing to justify their position, hearkening unto unverifiable facts for their position, it makes me feel like they don't have the right spirit, that they're not hearkening unto biblical principles when they're latching on to hearsay, slander, lies, deception, they're using manipulation, they're using threats. To me, that should be an indication that, you know, there's something wrong here. And in a battle, it's hot, it's heavy, it can be really, it can be really, it can be dangerous. Could be fog of war going on. Friendly fire, you know, people changing opinions, and you know, it's frustrating. And you know, I'm not above other people. I get it, it's tough. Sometimes it's difficult. Sometimes you do kind of ebb and flow on your thoughts, and you try to, you know, be balanced, but you know, when you really get tested, that's sometimes what you see, what people are like. And you know, I'm definitely not perfect in this area. I definitely have had a lot of battles where I've kind of gone back and forth, and I've, you know, had difficult decisions, you know, taking over steadfast. There was times where I'm just like, you know, I don't know if this was the right decision. Being evicted and being sued. I'll just be honest, there's been times where I've doubted and I've had struggles, you know, having issues with people literally taking our money. That was serious. I've had people take advantage of me personally, and it's caused me a lot of conflict. And even recently, there's been, you know, a lot of difficult decisions and difficult situations and difficult conversations with church members and whatever, and it's just, you know, it can be hard, but I think that we have to really consider the Spirit, and we have to consider what's going on, and I think that it's important to always consider the spiritual fruit and the spirit of a person, and is this person just vicious and carnal and railing and slandering? Then that makes me think that this person may not be sincere or on the right side. Do you feel like you've kind of noticed that? You've been through battles with me. I mean, is that kind of what you've also noticed? I think you notice a pattern in character of people who are opposing you. You notice a pattern in who are their allies. For example, and if you don't mind, I just like citing the 2019 battle because it's one that involved me, but I noticed that those who split off from our church and steadfast Jacksonville were allied with folks who were screwed up on the Trinity, who had tons of doctrinal problems, who had a lot of... Flat earthers. Flat earthers abounded on the opposing side of that church split. You had people who already had hatred for Pastor Aderson or had hatred for the new IFB, etc., and when you notice that pattern, it gives you a clue, first of all, as to their motivation. What is it that is the catalyst for them to be behaving in this way, but second of all, it helps you determine which side you should fall on as well. I want to take a break, and we're gonna take a call in here in just just this a second, and again, we're gonna get spicy probably after this call-in, and we'll take some other call-ins, but just to make sure that, you know, you're prepared, because I know you all get really triggered, is, you know, I think that women should never preach the Bible in church, women should not wear pants, I don't even believe women should vote, I think we should repeal the 19th Amendment, I don't think that women should be having jobs, I think they should stay home, I think they should have a bunch of kids, I think that they should, you know, be meek, I think they should be quiet, I think that they should be guiding the house, and, you know, I'm sure that I've already triggered about everybody that I can think of, and so I just wanted to say that. Now we got a guy on the line, we got Brad from Indiana, who was calling in, he wanted to ask us a question, how's it going Brad? It's going well, can you guys hear me? Yeah, loud and clear. Oh, how are you doing? I'm from Indiana, Northwest Indiana. Great. Yeah, thanks for the spiciness tonight, I kind of stumbled upon your show a while ago, you guys got some real bangers of some episodes, and I, it's refreshing to hear you guys talk about controversial topics about fear, but if you're ready for my question, I'll jump into it. Yeah, let's go for it. Yeah, so the context of this is, my wife was kind of talking to my mother-in-law about Israel, and like, hey, like isn't it kind of weird that we, you know, send billions of dollars to them, like no questions asked over and over, and we just see, we only get like one side of the story over there in the news anyway, so my mother-in-law wasn't too excited about that, like I've heard her say stuff like, you know, we need to bless Israel because like our nation we blessed if we do that. Anyway, later she sent, she asked my wife, she's like, I strongly recommend you read Romans 9, so I was like, alright, I'll read Romans 9, and I'm pretty sure that's the thing she's referring to is, a remnant shall be saved, for he will finish the work, and so my question is this remnant, is this a future promise to be fulfilled, or is this a promise of the past, since this is a quote from Isaiah, is this a promise from the past that was already fulfilled, and basically like the remnant, the promise was like Jesus coming and whoever believed in that, the promise was fulfilled, or is this like, hey in the future there's gonna be some Jews that come back? So that's a great question, and really appreciate you being a follower of the show. Yeah, I believe the Bible is really clear that in this passage we're talking about the state of Israel at that time, so at the time of shortly after the Gospel, they have a large population of Israelites and or Jews in Jerusalem and in that surrounding area, and they're innumerable, that's what the Mount of Sand of the Sea is basically describing, but it's just saying only a small portion of those people are gonna end up believing the Gospel and getting saved. Only a small portion are going to trust in Jesus Christ, and so that's what the remnant is, and essentially, you know, Isaiah had already prophesied of this, how only a small portion of the children of Israel are gonna actually get saved and accept their Messiah. It's, you know, it's like John chapter 1 verse 12, but he came into, or I'm sorry verse 11, but he came into his own, his own received him not, but unto them which received him, to them gave you power to become the sons of God, even in the belief on his name. So you see in John chapter 1 verses 11 and 12, he came unto the Jews, he came unto Israel, but most of them didn't accept him, and really we only had a remnant or a small number of that percent, like as far as percentage-wise, that ended up believing in Jesus Christ and getting saved. And you know, again, that's kind of the theme through Romans 9, 10, and 11. Romans chapter 11 then kind of asked the question of like, have God cast away his people, and it's like, God forbid, because he didn't cast away the remnant. And of course that's Paul and Peter and John and all the other children of Israel. I want to let Ben comment too, because he really loves this chapter and he loves this topic. Do you have any other thoughts about this verse? It just boils down to the nation of Israel contains a small subset of saved people within it, and that is the remnant. That's the way I describe it. Romans chapter 11 addresses that same remnant in verse number 3, Lord they have killed thy prophets and dig down thine altars and I am left alone and they seek my life, but what saith the answer of God unto him? I reserve to myself seven thousand men who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal. Even so then, at this present time also, there is a remnant, according to the election of grace. And I think that is the same remnant that Romans chapter 9 is describing. There's a small subset of Israel that actually believed on the Lord Jesus Christ. They are saved and as a result they are the chosen people of God. But believing Gentiles are also the chosen people of God and they're part of a spiritual nation consisting of Jew and Gentile. But it just boils down to like I said, a small remnant of Israelites at that time were saved. Yeah and I think again that's great reference to the remnant there. Also it says in verse 7 that Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for, but the election hath obtained it and the rest were blinded. So we see that contrast between Israel and the election. And even in chapter 9 which you were talking about, it says in verse 6, not as though the word of God hath taken an effect, for they are not all Israel which are of Israel. And it says neither because they are the seed of Abraham are they children, but in Isaac shall thy seed be called. That is, they which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted for the seed. And so it just really just keeps, just the whole context flows together very nicely, really well. And basically it's just basically saying they're not all spiritual Israel which are of physical Israel there in verse 6. That's how I kind of add my commentary to help you kind of distinguish what that's trying to say when it contrasts one Israel versus the other. And that's where you have that remnant versus the nation of Israel as a whole that you were bringing up in one of the verses down here in verse 27. The children of Israel, there's physical Israel. Yes. The remnant is the spiritual Israel that was referenced in verse number 6. Did that satisfy your question? I want to give you a chance to follow up here. Yeah I think it did. I mean do you think that the verse is kind of corrupted or twisted because like what I am thinking people think is like within the modern state of Israel like at some time in the future there's gonna be a portion that are going to like convert back to Christianity and that's not like the point here. The point is like you're saying there was a small portion of Israel they got saved and now there is no Jew there is no Gentile like it says later. Sure so you know I've heard people say that I've heard people say like maybe this is dual fulfillment like this what we just said is true and then maybe there's a future group of Israel that's gonna be saved and to me I would just say this I don't believe that there's dual fulfillment but there's nothing preventing people in the Middle East or people so called Jews getting saved of course I just think that it's highly unlikely I don't think that that's what this verse is implying and even if it did let's just say that's a hundred percent true that doesn't really that doesn't really change anything like well I'm not gonna do anything different based on the idea of a handful of or a small percentage of people in the Middle East just getting saved in the end times or something like I think there's plenty of nations and plenty of countries that are more receptive to the gospel and I'm not against someone to go to Israel to preach the gospel but I just think like maybe we should focus on the areas that are the most receptive that's why we do mission trips to places like the Bahamas and we go to Shreveport Louisiana and we go we go to small towns and stuff like that because I think that our efforts and energies are probably better spent and we can maybe get a better opportunity to preach to more people that are more receptive in those areas so thanks thanks so much for your call do you have do you have anything else you wanted to add there no I appreciate it guys thanks thanks so much Brad god bless have a good night and we got another caller here I'm gonna go to that we're gonna get really spicy and again viewer discretion advised if you cannot handle sensitive topics click off the show do not watch the show if you don't want to hear uncomfortable things click off the show and and just to give you a spirit or the idea of where we're going women should never preach the Bible women should not wear pants women should not vote we should repeal the 19th amendment I think women should stay home I think that women should not rule the house I think that women should obey their husbands I think that women should honor their husbands and so if you don't like any of those statements you should just literally click off the podcast please do don't stay I just want to make that clear let's let's go to our next caller Steven from Indiana how's it going oh yes can you hear me yes loud and clear how's it going awesome awesome yeah I'm really offended now so I'm just kidding but I know what I've been loving the Baptist bias in your preaching but my question is this actually it's about being a pastor you know I've been following your church for quite some time no step that's Baptist Church just all the persecution you guys have been through if you could point to one thing what was the most stressful part of all that what would you say I would say this week is a physically hurt the most I've ever had to go through but I don't know I mean you know honestly what hurts hurts a lot is just helping people and and doing a lot of good unto people and then then just making bad decisions I think that that is kind of maybe the saddest part because you kind of cheer on people in your mind and your heart and you want to you want to do good unto them and then for them to make bad decisions or make mistakes that you you you kind of wish you did you sure trying to help them you know maybe get right get sent out of their life work on their relationships or you know become more spiritual and they just they kind of turn away or make bad decisions or get discouraged or quit or you know in any combination of those I think that's probably the most disappointing you know the outward attacks of like sodomites and haters and all that kind of stuff that that really isn't doesn't really affect me that much I think it's just the the relationships that you form and and caring for people and their families just to see see them go through problems and and make bad decisions is probably the most difficult part I think you know it's just it's frustrating because you can sometimes you can just kind of tell someone's making a bad decision you want to help them and you want to tell them and they just they don't want to listen or they're kind of too prideful or they think they know better and and it just you see them suffer as a result of not making maybe some good decisions and of course my opinions not always right and I'm not always gonna give someone the best advice so I get that but sometimes you can kind of just tell and I think that's I think that's the hardest part for me you know preaching is easy our church is honestly really easy to pastor just because we have so many good people that help out so much so to me it's just kind of seeing people get discouraged or or make bad life choices I don't know if that answers your question no it really did I thank you for the honest thorough answer but I actually had a an honor and privilege to meet you in person and the church during the Chicago stolen a marathon back in May oh yeah probably don't remember me but I was the one that I briefly talked to you about the Zachariah series you were preaching on and that was such a good series I really enjoyed it it was thank you so deep especially when you compared I forget what chapter listen Zachariah was like Daniel 11 like all that stuff that connects with it with the end times prophecy it was really good so no that would've been enjoying the preaching that's a that's a really hard look yeah it really is there's not a lot of like surface information a lot of it's like cryptic so it's like man I really got to do with my study on this yeah yeah it was it was it was actually I was really in Tim I'm just be honest I was intimidated to go through that book because I just feel like it's a really it was a challenge and I'm sure that I didn't necessarily get everything right and I probably didn't cover every verse but I feel like the Lord blessed me to understand a lot more of it than I did going into it and you know I really I got a better appreciation of that book and so really appreciate you calling in and asking you know the apostle Paul talked about the care of all the churches was one of the worst pains and sufferings he went through and I I definitely think that that's a real thing you know you work really hard for something you put a lot of effort energy into it and if it were to just turn down a bad road or go away you know I mean the apostle Paul talks about how all Asia turned away from him and like I'm sure that's probably hard to go through that all of Asia stabs all these churches create all these churches and for all them to turn against you would just be it's got to hurt so you know even as a church member when you see another fellow church member drop out for silly reasons or give up on the Christian life that hurts you know especially if it was a friend somebody you spent a lot of time with I never liked seeing that I want everybody to finish their race I want everybody to get a lot of rewards in heaven so that that is hard even as a church member to see that happen let alone as a pastor whose job it is to help them serve Christ better thanks so much Stephen for calling in God bless you you have a good night so I think at this point we'll probably get really really spicy so can we can we play our warning again our viewer viewer discretion advised it's it's funny because this program is intended for mature audiences parental discretion is advised if you have sensitive ears turn off if you don't want to hear something you don't like just turn off right now I'm gonna say something and I want to talk about something that I would not preach and I want to make this abundantly clear I'm not gonna preach this I'm not gonna talk about it in fact I don't even agree with it but I think you know it's it's it's a place where we can just kind of just try to educate people a little bit okay and so I just want to you know I want to bring up something that's really sensitive it's really controversial and the reason I am bringing it up is is only because it kind of got leaked online and a lot of people heard me say all kinds of stuff that was in a phone call that got chopped up and I think a lot of it was taken out of context of you know again I can't remember that conversation perfectly but I just want to make it abundantly clear you know what I was saying and just kind of like talking about something that people get really really really nervous about so again if you think if you get triggered by any statements I make right now you should just to just click off just click off I don't think that women should preach the Bible I don't think women should wear pants I don't think women should vote I think women should stay home I don't think they should have jobs I hate all waves of feminism I think they're all wrong all right did I give enough warning Ben I think that you gave enough of a warning to those who are going to get triggered by what you have to say next to go ahead and click the little X button on the top right hand corner of the screen if they're watching on a computer if they can't handle what you're about to say enough warnings at this point I think everybody I think the audience especially those in the live chat room are ready to hear you unleash the spiciness right now all right so again in warfare things get ugly and sometimes we talk about things that are ugly adult difficult concepts but here's the thing people ask me genuine questions about this and this is a serious topic and and I want to make sure that people don't take me wrong here I'm not trying to be funny or jovial because some of these things we're gonna say are really serious and and really important to everyone and and one of those things I want to talk about is the difference between what I believe is spousal discipline and spousal abuse now I want to say something very clearly spousal abuse is horrific and I I do not like this I think that there is a serious problem I think men that would beat up and punch their wives and and hurt their wives is is really really wrong and and I really am against it and I think it's a serious issue and it's it's sadly prevalent in our world you know I don't I don't really have exposure to this in my personal life I don't really know people like personally that have this issue you know I'm not aware of these kind of issues in my church again I've heard occasionally people bring up this in a side comment or something but just generally speaking I'm not really aware of these kind of things but it is a serious thing and you know I think men that punch their wives and and beat up on their wives are evil and wicked and it's wrong and I hate it and I think it's dishonorable and I don't like it and no matter what I say people will twist something but you know that's how I feel I also want to say this you know when it comes to the idea of spousal discipline I'm trying you know in this context I want to talk about it from a physical or a corporal perspective this is talking about actually applying a physical discipline from a husband to a wife I personally do not believe in that I've never practiced that I never would practice that I'm not interested in encouraging people in that I don't want people to do it I'm not gonna preach it at my church I don't want you know anybody to get wrong ideas and I honestly had already decided months ago that I would never even bring this up it's just somehow you know you know things got on the internet and then people basically are twisting things that I've said or talked about to make it seem like I think this is a cool idea or something so I just want to make it abundantly clear I do not agree with this I don't believe this and I want to make it clear that I I've even preached this many times like I preach that men should not be beating up their wives or punching their wives or all kinds of stuff like that I've never changed my opinion on that and so I want to make that clear and I think my co-host I believe you share pretty much the same opinion I'll let you share you know your views on these two subjects obviously I agree with what you've said so far and the reality is that although spousal corporal discipline exists as a concept I would never practice it myself and so you know it's just not something that I personally believe in my personal opinion is that it's just inappropriate to do to a wife but obviously there's differing views out there I don't believe in it I wouldn't recommend it to anybody out there I think we've offered enough of a caveat at this point and you know I also want to say this like there's plenty of things that I'm just not gonna do like I'm not gonna eat Indian food I'm not gonna put beans in my chili for the Texas chili competition and you know that doesn't mean that I condemn them though necessarily I wouldn't say that necessarily that just because I don't like something or agree with it or think it's wrong and that's my opinion I don't think that carries forward now of course what I just brought up is not even close to as serious it's not a fair comparison I'm just trying to you know given it a sense of the fact that just because I have a personal opinion or strong opinion about something doesn't mean that that's the right thing like I have a standard our church that I want men to wear a dress shirt and a tie behind my pulpit you know even the song leader even you know of the Bible reader and I've seen other good fundamental Baptist churches where they let guys get up there in polos or t-shirts and read the Bible and you know what I'm that's my opinion I'm not saying that they're wrong that just the standards that I have and I don't I think that it's a good you know standard again that's also not as serious is what we're about to talk about and what we want to address I think that some people though they kind of don't maybe necessarily understand the historical context of these two words these two different descriptions that I brought up and they conflate them and I think that it's an unfair conflation and so I just want to I just want to help people understand I believe there is a difference even though I'm not pro either I'm not agreeing with either but one I would for sure condemn and the other one I'm saying I don't think I could bibbly condemn this one okay so again I believe there is a distinction between spousal spanking and spousal you know abuse and I just want to show go ahead and bring up my screen for a moment I want to show you know I'm not like believing something that's even different than the world's opinion on this now I just I have chat GPT here you can you can go there you can just click start now it'll pop up and and I'm just I'm doing this live you can do this right now if you want just say is there a difference between spousal spanking and spousal abuse okay enter now again you might be really triggered by this so if you're already triggered by me even just asking chat GPT please tune off this podcast this is an adult section of our show we don't always do this I just want you to see what's going on it says right here yes there is a significant difference between spousal spanking and spousal abuse now do you think anybody can accuse me of like hijacking chat GPT and making it a like my version of Baptist thinking or do you think that this is just giving us a general consensus of what the internet basically is red it's offering a consensus that exists online and the consensus is making a distinction between spousal abuse and spousal discipline I think that much is clear thus far okay so I also want to just read what it says spousal spanking can refer to consensual activities within a relationship where both partners agree to participate in certain practices often within a context of intimacy and trust it is usually involves clear communication about boundaries and consent okay then it says spousal abuse on the other hand involves harmful behaviors that can be physical emotional or psychological often incurs equation manipulation and a lack of consent with one partner partner exerting power and control over the other the key factors distinguished are the two are consent mutual agreement and the absence of harm or coercion and consensual activities so again this is just saying that there is a distinction between these two I also want to play a a video that is a video clip here in a minute and I'll send it I'll send it to my crew I guess I didn't even think about sending this so I'll give them a little bit of time to to air this this is just a YouTube video and again adult audience only please please you know you know this should be just a mature audience I just want to show this clip I do not endorse it I do not support it I hesitate to even show it but I just want to essentially help people understand that there is a distinction between these concepts and you know from a cultural perspective there's always been a distinction in these things I'm see if I I should be able to find this somewhere I don't know if they have it or not let's see here we go let me copy this link and I'm gonna send it over I'm just giving people extra time to be warned and we've given about 50 warnings you know this is for this is mature audiences only folks and I just you know again someone's advocating someone's gonna chop this up we don't agree we do not advocate spousal discipline I don't know how much clearer we could possibly be live on the but I want to say this in the 20s 30s 40s 50s 60 70s 80s 90s and even past the 2000s there are movies and it was in a lot of movies a lot of tv shows a lot of so like a lot of media clips this idea of quote spousal spanking and I'm not I'm not approving it I'm not saying I would do this I'm not going to do it never done it still not going to do it better do I'm not showing this in the in an idea of like let's do this I just want people to realize that this was part of the culture historically okay like slavery what have we showed a clip of slavery I don't agree with slavery I'm not saying I agree with this I just want to simply show that this existed in our culture all right let's play it something you need very badly don't you put your hands on me so he did that in response to getting slapped what were the arrows is it I don't know that looked like your cousin or something those are arrows can you can you imagine if they aired a movie like this you know in the movie theater would everybody walk out screaming and shocked and horrified like right now we can put like horrible evil atrocities in film right now but no one's ever seen this horrific stuff I mean this is the worst thing imaginable and again I'm not agreeing with this I'm not saying that this is you know right but for most people it's kind of comedic at least that's how people viewed this they thought this was funny they thought that this was uh kind of an interesting thing was actually used in old advertisements as well back in the day so again the culture used to not push back as much on this now of course I'm not saying this is widely accepted I'm not saying like everybody believe this I'm not saying everybody practice this I have no idea I don't even know how we could know exactly what the attitudes were but I think if you could see that this was in film regularly for a long period of time that there must have been a different attitude towards this and you know when we talk about things like slavery slavery obviously bible-breathing Christians got their bibles out and they're like this is wrong we don't agree with this and we freed the slaves I just wonder if people think that you know fundamental Baptist and Christians were the ones with their bibles to tell Hollywood to stop making these things or if it was loudmouth feminists who basically thought that this was horrific and they were the ones that tried to demonize these activities now again I'm not saying that I agree with them because I don't but at the same time I'm not saying I could condemn it I'm not saying that it's you know something that the bible just has this explicit verse on because you know I think we should really make sure that we our opinions or whatever the bible says and not just what's popular and I'll tell you simply saying I cannot condemn spousal spanking is almost like the most controversial thing I think I've ever said somehow like I've said some pretty controversial things but just like just saying that you can't condemn this is like literally the most extreme crazy thing ever and people get so offended and so mad and again I'm only playing this just so people realize now look at this daddy you spanked mama you're darn tooting I did that means you love her that's what I've been trying to tell her and that's basically like the end of this clip is this you know basically that was that was the message that they were trying to communicate trying to communicate that this husband actually loved his wife so so here's the thing am I supposed to believe I'm embarrassed that I showed that Peter James says this is quite an extensive compilation I'm embarrassed that I showed that and some I know people are going to chop this up and get really mad at me for that but I just I just wanted to make sure someone says how much research all I literally it was a you it was already done for me I've never you know researched this someone else's best segment in the history of Baptist okay all right I'm just I'm just saying like just to say that that is the exact same as men just getting angry getting drunk and punching their wives and beating up their wives and crap just just doing all these horrible things that is just disingenuous to say those are the same thing and you know it's super evil and wicked for men to get drunk and punch their wives and beat up on them they're the weaker vessel we should love them we should honor them we should give them respect they're worthy of praise but you know at the same time I do believe if we take out the physical punishment aspect you have to believe that spousal discipline exists in some context I mean how can the wife be subject unto the husband if he can't even just tell her what to do if he could never correct her in any way now again I my boundary I've decided that you know if if I can't win my wife over with with with her heart and and you know by giving her you know a verbal correction and stuff like that I want to give her space and you know there's been times where we've had difficult parts in our relationship and I've given her space and you know honestly my wife's a better person than me anyways so it's kind of hard for for me to to necessarily be equivalent to other people because I just have such a great wife but but at the same time you know this was a cultural thing and people were doing it I'm not going to sit here and judge them and get super mad at them for what's between husband and wife that's consensual and they agree to and we noticed they were just using their hand over clothes and stuff like that and I think maybe there was one or two that they'd use an instrument and I'm not I'm not proving any of it I'm against all of it I'm just saying did do you think that it's fair to at least say that there's some distinction between that and men just punching and beating up their wives I'd have to be insane to say there's no distinction there obviously is a distinction now I want to bring up verses on this because people genuinely sincere good god-fearing awesome people believe different than what I just said and they think that we should just condemn all of it and we should say it's all wrong and you know I respect that opinion and I'm not going to fight them from the pulpit I don't want to fight them as a person I just I just want to at least you know say I think that we've been a little feminized as a culture to get to a point where we start condemning things maybe unfairly and again I'm willing to change my mind on this don't hear me wrong if someone can prove to me that it's wrong from the bible I'll believe it right now because frankly speaking I don't want to even do it anyways so I have no reason to not I'm just trying to be honest with the text and honest with the situation what's in the bible what the bible says not to do rather is objectively wrong pastor Shelley what the bible says not to do is objectively wrong if the bible is silent on something and you have a personal opinion that says this thing is wrong then it is subjectively wrong because it varies from person to person there may be somebody else who disagrees whatever so the argument is is spousal discipline objectively wrong or is it subjectively wrong I think that kind of sets the table a little bit okay so I let's let's look at some verses because I I'm willing to hear the other side I'm totally willing to change my mind on this of course I'm never going to preach this I'm not going to fight anybody that has a different opinion on this personally because I think really good people believe differently than me Ephesians chapter 5 verse 25 the bible says husbands love your wives even as Christ also loved the church and gave himself for it and you know just just for sake of time if we skip down to verse 28 so ought men to love their wives as their own bodies he that loveth his wife loved himself for no man ever yet hated his own flesh but nourisheth and cherishes it even as the lord the church so the bible makes it clear it's we become one flesh we're supposed to nourish our wives and excuse me cherish our wives and we're supposed to treat them with respect and honor and then the weaker vessel and we love them and and this is what I kind of hear people say is they say well this verse is case closed because you would never discipline you never you never discipline yourself in the way that we saw on those videos and things like that and that's true I've never done that I would never do that I'm not doing it to anybody I'm not doing it to her I'm not doing it to me I'm not I wouldn't do it to anyone if someone's going to be like oh Pastor Shelley literally encouraged people to do this they're lying you are a liar I never said that I just want people to realize that there is a difference between this and if someone did it I won't condemn them as a person okay I won't condemn their action even but I'm not saying it's okay I'm not you know it's like well Pastor Shelley said it's okay liar okay but I want to say this how far can we really take this analogy because I don't think it's fair to say that every single thing that I do to my wife is something I would do to myself and I'm not going to go down a crazy train on this I just want to bring up one example you know I kiss my wife but I don't kiss myself and I think that anybody could realize there's a lot of things that maybe husbands do for wives wives who do for husbands that we don't do to ourselves here's here's another one people say well you don't practice discipline on yourself but that's not really true because one of the things prescribed in the Bible is fasting and that is a form of discipline and self-discipline that people would exercise on themselves you know working out is another way that you can you know it is a type of physical discipline that you can implement and you know here's the thing I would never I would never force my wife to not eat like I think that fasting is a personal decision like I think that that would be weird or wrong to force that but but the Bible has you doing it to yourself so I think that we can't necessarily take this biblical principle and apply it in every single hypothetical every single scenario because I wouldn't force I do fasting myself not in her I may give my wife a kiss and a hug but I don't do those things to myself and I think you know I'm not gonna elaborate on that but I'm just simply saying like I believe that we can't necessarily take every single you know thing and say this is the principle that's just hard and fast I mean what is what is your you know give me some pushback on this if you disagree of course but I just want to see you know play devil's advocate with me how is how is that fair to say that this applies to literally every scenario based on the few things I kind of brought up well I mean obviously there's such a thing as self-discipline so if you could do it to yourself and your wife is the one flesh with you then I understand the connection there I think if I were to push back I would ask the question but is there anything you do to yourself to punish yourself for wrongdoing because I think that's the spousal discipline that people are talking about is if your wife transgresses then you end up responding with a punishment but the transgression is a wrongdoing well you know the bible even talks about a husband and wife refraining from marital duty because they're both agreeing to fast and that's a form of joint consensual self-discipline and so you know I think that you know it's possible to see examples in the bible of self-discipline and mutually consensual self-discipline as taught in the idea of both refraining from marital duty for a time of prayer and fasting do you think that that's a fair you know assessment of that verse that it's saying you're having a mutual self-discipline of some sort and you're making these decisions and again I think obviously in a marriage you know things should uh you know flow in a way where in best case scenario you're both consenting and especially on things like this and again let's just be honest the idea of spousal you know discipline or spousal spanking is weird just because it's so counter-cultural it's something that I don't think anybody I don't I don't even know if anybody even really does this I think that you know we have an epidemic of spousal abuse in America and I don't think that people are actually exercising what we saw in that video or like a a loving mutual spousal discipline and even a few people are like I'm just not going to judge that I just I just want to make sure people are being fair and honest with the text now there's some other things that people have brought up I think it's weird as well it's weird I think there's other things that people brought up um I've seen one where it says if men strive together and they hurt a woman let's see let's see if we can pull that verse up too um if men strive I believe is what let's see yeah here we go Exodus 21 verse 22 if men strive and hurt a woman with child so that her fruit depart from her and yet no mischief follow he shall surely be punished according as the woman's husband will lay upon him and he shall pay as the judge is determined so according to the bible um you need to be very careful with a pregnant lady and you know this is a picture of men fighting and and and really going at each other and somehow it gets out of control or they run into a woman or something I don't know exactly or maybe he was just intending to actually hurt this woman and and somehow he's he's possible and I believe the mischief is harm to the baby um and so it's saying that he would be punished and I've seen that people bring this up I think this is probably in my opinion maybe one of the best arguments I've heard but at the same time I think that it's it's basically insinuating that we should be very careful around pregnant women and I think that pregnant women in general are treated differently than non-pregnant women especially as their pregnancy escalates and evolves through the pregnancy and so obviously you would never want to do anything that could possibly harm a child I don't think though that this is a an all the time situation I don't even think that what we saw you know in the early parts of a pregnancy puts any harm or risk but again even if it if it did put any kind of risk you know you should definitely I would probably condemn that but I'm saying like I don't know that I can just condemn this idea of spousal corporal discipline based on any verse and and I'm not I'm willing to look at other verses do you know in any of the arguments I don't really know all the arguments because nobody ever preaches this or talks about it really but uh obviously the bible text is about the meek one flesh I think honor the wife first peter chat yeah I mean that's what I was going to bring up bring up that verse in first peter chapter three where the bible refers to uh likewise he husbands dwell with them according to knowledge giving honor unto the wife as under the weaker vessel and as being heirs together of the grace of life that your prayers be not hindered I think that's a scripture that can be used to condemn the practice of spousal corporal discipline I do think it actually can be applied that way in my mind but I'm curious look it's not there is no thou shalt not here it's obviously not clear but how would you reconcile the concept of giving honor onto the wife with the concept of spousal corporal discipline if you knew somebody who wanted to practice it and and didn't feel like there was anything in the bible that condemns it how do you respond to the idea that first peter three seven would condemn it well again I mean obviously we need to treat these verses with care I love my wife I love women I don't want them to be hurt I don't I don't like un especially the the epidemic of women getting you know literally beaten up and and horrible you know stories women going to the hospital and and not only does physical you know spousal abuse hurt it hurts emotionally it can change the the relationship it could change the dynamic it could it could really make things way worse and I you know especially if this was done in front of children it can be extremely traumatic it could it could cause them to have you know hatred and bitterness towards their father you know and I think you know especially you know when a child is seeing someone they love and care about hurt with no rhyme or reason and just being punched and all that like it can just it really can be devastating and I think this is an extremely serious issue that we should not take lightly and yet at the same time think that we're describing two different things and so um you know I want to still look at this verse obviously we're giving honor under the wife honor specifically is what I'm curious to see how you'd respond to because I think that's respect right yeah respect I think respect I think treating her with value you look at her as a prized possession I mean the Bible says that a virtuous woman who can find her price is far above rubies so obviously women should be praised the Bible talks about in Proverbs 31 that the children and the husband they're going to rise up and they're going to they're going to bless their wife they're going to praise their wife we see in the Song of Solomon um the the male the husband author praising his wife and talking about her beauty and and we need to treat our wives with a lot of respect and love and care I think though that if you know if if if a husband and wife had a consensual arrangement where in some circumstances if she did something and he could give her verbal correction and if you did apply spousal discipline I don't think that that has to change the dynamic I think in an America and I think in our culture it's probably impossible to really do I think you know for for almost 99 of people and even even in the rare cases I just don't encourage it I don't really I don't think it's a good idea I think it could cause a lot of problems and you know and I'm not trying to be feminist maybe maybe I am feminist but I you know in that one small tiny area but like I just think that I'm just trying to be honest with the text because I'm saying like look the text I don't think is spelling out anything very clear here I think that you know it's she's obviously the weaker vessel I think you know we need to win the hearts of our wives you know we would love to be able to just give them light reproves and corrections and for them to respond with grace and with humility so corporate discipline of the wife doesn't violate the concept of giving honor under the wife it at least in my opinion I don't I don't think that it's a contrast I'm willing to be wrong on this I'm willing to see you know differently I never you know I didn't grow up in a home where this ever happened my dad never hurt my mom they did not practice this I've never heard of anybody practicing this in my childhood or my youth I never even I probably saw some movies or ads throughout time where this concept was there and I've had people ask me about this like years ago and I've always said like I don't agree with it and that's just my you know my personal opinion I don't think I could say it's technically wrong but I just wouldn't encourage it I don't really agree with it I thought about maybe one time kind of addressing it just so people would think so they wouldn't do it in a sense that they would try other things they would try other steps as far as like how to resolve yeah difficulties in their marriage but I just decided to avoid the topic because for some reason if I say that I can't condemn spousal discipline based on what I just you know was talking about a light form of spanking that's consensual within that marriage arrangement then people freak out and people say you're you're like a wife beater and your whole church is wife beaters and you're wicked and you're evil and you hate women and all the stuff and it's just like you know I mean I'm just I'm just not I I'm just saying that this is different and again I'm not I I love women I don't want to see them hurt and I think this is the danger because we live in a society where men are just really beating up their wives that this is a really dangerous attitude or idea I just I just want people to necessarily not discount the idea that there's a separation of distinction in these two things and maybe for some people they say well I just think it's not edifying to prove that distinction so I'm just going to stay completely away from it and condemn all of it because I think people can't control this they can't do it right it's not possible to implement and and you know I can respect that opinion I just think that we should be careful not to condemn things that the Bible doesn't condemn and that we should at least consider other ideas here well hypothetically if a husband and wife sat down together and they decided this was a practice they wanted to engage in the wife agreed to it and then they went with it I don't see a violation of first peter three seven there but it's something they both came to the conclusion that they wanted to do now again I would find it weird I would also go as far as calling it inappropriate because I think this kind of discipline is better suited for children and is actually more appropriate for children so I think it's inappropriate I find it weird I would never practice it there you go and again I've I I've had these conversations and and had all these things like months and months and months ago years ago I've talked about this with people so this is not something that I've even changed my opinion on if I did change my opinion I would just say that and again I'm still willing to change my opinion on that and so you know I just want to put it out there we're talking about spicy stuff it's you know we're coming at these different difficult topics with the badness bias and look I look at lots of people in in the chat people disagree with us people think that it's wrong and you know I can respect that opinion I'm not I'm not here to fight with you obviously I you know I'm just trying to at least help people realize that I think there's a distinction between these two words I mean cussing is not a sin yet I would not advocate for somebody to be cussing after every word you don't hear us dropping f-bomb a b c d e f g etc bombs here on the Baptist bias you know I'm not going to say that I've never used those you know words before but certainly I don't advocate for cussing I think that people who cuss after every word frankly they sound uneducated I think it's a bad form of communication and it can be inappropriate there are certain contexts where it is of course inappropriate to talk like that yet it's not a sin does that mean that now I want everybody to cuss because I said it wasn't a sin no and it's the same thing with this situation there is a distinction between that which is objective and that which is subjective subjectivity means that it varies from person to person and there's liberty there when it comes to your opinion on that issue but that which is objectively wrong is clear-cut in scripture irregardless of your opinion and you know again when it comes to this particular topic some people even brought up the legality and I want to see if I could find I think there's like don't go to my screen yet because I'm not I'm not sure I'm trying to see if I can find this maybe they can help me I think that there was like some some kind of a court ruling maybe in the 50s on this particular topic and I'm just trying to I'm just trying to see if I can find it sometimes the internet just sucks but there was definitely some court rulings on these particular situations and I believe that the courts ruled in favor that this was not illegal maybe I'll just ask my crew and see if they can find it they can send me a link here in a minute but I thought there was a time in like the 1950s or 60s or 40s or maybe it was 20s I don't remember some at some point I was reading something and I you know I don't really care to keep all this research but maybe we can find that I'm just excited for everybody of the enemy side to conclude that on this podcast we taught you all to yeah yeah that's what they're gonna say that's what yeah did you see this horrible video they shared on youtube also it's it's like we can share videos that literally have a transvestite in it like we can have a man in a dress with makeup on and we'll share that video and we'll go watch that video but god forbid we would watch a movie from the 30s or 20s or john wayne you know you know spanking his wife like right like it's kind of funny the hypocrisy of some of these groups the bike there's this person they made a video attacking us for ai music like they literally made this entire video attacking us for ai music saying it's super evil and wicked and then like just like I don't know maybe a week or two later just recently they made their own video using ai music I kid you not just like it's like what in the world calling the little black you're just you're gonna make fun of us for having uh ai music and then you yourself are gonna make ai music try not to use it yourself like it's just kind of funny how people do those kind of things you know on the cussing thing I want to say this obviously I've taught and I've said many times I don't think cussing is a sin but that does not mean I approve of it in every context or situation in fact if my kids say things or or my wife or even myself I'll feel bad I'll say hey let's not talk like that that's not something we should say and I think you know the reason why it's so closely coupled with things like cursing in the bible is because of the fact that a lot of times people use a cuss word when they're cursing they'll say like du and fu and they'll say you know b and stuff and they're like wishing you to go to hell and things like that and so like they you have this really tight coupling like it's almost a one for one that when people are using strong profanity and language they are cursing someone and the bible is telling us not to curse people and so then it became a quote curse word it became kind of a and then the slang for curse word is cuss word that's the same thing and it's it became that way because when people would curse they would use the strongest language possible but again that doesn't mean that that word in every context is necessarily a curse the bible talks about people going to hell and just the concept of hell and I don't think the word hell is a a word that's not allowed to be said verbally or vocally there's something wrong with it but if you use any word whether it's hell or not and a and a curse when you shouldn't like cursing your brethren and cursing good people cursing men of god go to hell yeah but even if you just said like I hope something bad happens to you and you don't use any what is considered profanity I think that that is cursing uh let's go on someone I think they pulled up this article yeah pull up this article do we have a date on this can you tell me I don't know I don't see the date on this it says okay oh yeah that's what it was 1959 high court rules spanking wife legal des Moines Iowa you know sorry it's okay I they're gonna now they're gonna make fun of me for saying Des Moines yeah Des Moines so people say like this is this is so illegal and so evil but it's like actually there was um examples of the courts saying that this is technically legal and so you know I think that people should just at least consider the historical context of any doctrine that they believe they should consider the societal doctrine they should consider the fact that it's really feminism that really put a lot of pushback on this and change this and you know again I'm not saying that the bible ever taught it because it doesn't I have no verse to prove it I have no verse in my mind to even support it I don't support it I'm not for it we're talking about spicy stuff Ben well people point out in the chat room how come there aren't any prophets of God who engaged in this well because the bible is silent on it all right so let's just get it let's just get a sample because I'm just curious from our audience do you think and this is this is the question do you think that what I just described spousal you know light spanking or this light uh this discipline is can is should be condemned in all situations or do you think the bible is silent and so basically you can just say let's do maybe for silent no let's do um oh we can make a poll we're gonna make an actual we're gonna actually make an actual poll here we go there we go we can get you to vote we got over 400 people in the live stream the baptist bias someone called me election someone's like y'all are the beater baptist you know y'all are telling to be I've never said that don't agree with it don't beat your wife I am from the middle east I understand why he would say that to me yeah and again I'm we made videos attacking that like we made videos of making fun of that because the Quran literally says to strike them it also says to forsake them in bed which is like that's the weirdest punishment that's that one's so unbiblical you know that's so that's so terrible like hey that's what something that we could say the bible is clear on that you should never refrain from having a physical relationship the duty of marriage with your life absolutely uh so we're gonna try and get uh we're gonna try and get a a poll I guess I don't think I've ever done this on the rumble so we'll see if we can get a poll here I think our production team is constructing this honestly I love our crew folks we have the best crew I think we do as well I'm you know I'm so glad that our crew is you know still with us and they love us and they support us because we couldn't do the show without the crew yes hopefully we haven't ran them off here with tonight's you know again we're going through spiritual warfare and I think sometimes in spiritual warfare you have to talk about some difficult things things you wouldn't normally talk about things that are crazy and I think there's a lot of slander and railing and over the top accusations made about this little bit of nuance that we're trying to just unpack so that people don't get the wrong idea here that at least we can talk about things and you know there is there is nuance in the bible you know the word repent is based on the context the word wine is based on the context I also think that there's a distinction between getting drunk and drinking a little bit of alcohol now in that situation I think both are wrong I think that both are unbiblical but you know I wouldn't throw someone out of church for being a drunkard just because they had one beer or just because they had a little bit of alcohol and then is that me now saying please drink a beer please drink a little bit of alcohol just have a little bit of it some people would say well you know if what if a woman was in a situation where her husband did something inappropriate actually laid hands on her and you know what well that's wicked that's wrong I don't I don't agree with it it's super dishonorable I don't I don't approve of it and they would say like well shouldn't she just divorce him and run away or something and it's like look if a woman was literally feeling fearing for her life or her physical safety I do think that she should you know separate herself from a dangerous situation obviously a life or death situation she should be willing to defend herself but okay we got the link for the poll vote now on if it's condemned every single time or if it's just silent so that's that's what the poll uh we got a fast poll I've never seen this all right yes never appropriate no it could be appropriate all right so I guess I guess they worded it a little bit differently but this person says I can't click a choice I don't know if that's maybe just them somebody put silent in the chat so we're letting the we're letting the tallies come in some other person they can't click say something yeah another person to try try refreshing because I can't vote it worked for me um yeah it looks like it's unclickable so this poll is rigged oh man let's I refreshed oh so we definitely got a mixed bag and this is just this is early we're gonna let the things keep coming in keep coming in all right and someone's gonna be like oh it's because their shows is a bunch of young single new ifp punks or something like that right I don't know I don't know what our demographic is folks single life beating punk yeah that doesn't work yeah I think that I think if we did a new poll that was like do you agree with beating your wife I think we would have a hundred percent no zero okay folks 100 uh it's never right I think that we would have everybody say that it was wrong well there could be a one secret Muslim in there who says yes Pastor Shelley I think it's amazing that this subject is so controversial like I get it like I understand why it is it is controversial people are disagreeing that's fine and that's fine but you've literally preached so right now this is what you're saying you're saying I don't advocate for women to be punished corporally in their marriage right exactly but it's not a sin that's what you're saying I don't I don't think I can point to a verse to condemn it so I'm not I'm not here's the thing I want to make myself clear I'm not saying it's definitely not a sin I'm saying that's my opinion it could be and I'm just not seeing it in your opinion it's I'm just saying yeah I'm just saying like and I'm willing to change my mind on it but from my perspective I just don't see the clear verse to condemn it just yet so you don't see anything in scripture that you can use to condemn it just yet but there are there are obviously guiding principles not everything in the bible is spelled out we have to take principles we have to take the spirit of the law we have to consider all kinds of different things when we decide something you know the bible doesn't say anything about smoking the bible doesn't say things about you know you know certain things that happen in society and you kind of have to use your better judgment you have to use guiding principles because it's such a gray area that's why I think this is subjective so you come up with whatever conclusion you want I ain't doing it in my house but here's here's my point okay I want to make an overall point here all you've said so far is spousal corporal discipline you know what I don't see a verse that explicitly I could use to condemn it all right however here's what else you've preached women should be executed for adultery I was just about to say okay for adultery that was an awkward boss for me for adultery hold on hold on for adultery okay sure men and women not just women men and women who commit adultery should be executed according to God's law yes Leviticus chapter 20 and verse 10 now here's the thing about that it doesn't it produces some outrage when you say adult or should be put to death but not nearly as much as this I feel like and if you think about it one involves capital punishment and the other one involves kind of that spanking that we saw in the video yeah interesting this is what would be funny is it's like if we had biblical laws and our wife committed adultery we could execute them but we would not be able to give them a light spanking right like the light spanking is condemned but you you could execute her that's definitely that's definitely the government and that's a crime obviously we're talking about crime government should execute discipline and crimes have a clear separation in the bible so I don't think that we you know we should look at criminal law and say this is how we rule our home you know I'm not saying that I'm just simply saying like it's it's a little bit of a paradox in my mind I was thinking of another I think there's another verse that people bring up here about this context like being not a striker as a pastor but you know that's not saying like I don't think that that says a pastor could never punch someone I think it's in the context of like you're just you get mad someone says something rude and you just punch them but if you were defending yourself in a physical like someone was attacking you or your family I think you could defend yourself if someone did sport where they did boxing or something as a hobby or whatever is agreed upon sport and they're punching like I don't I wouldn't say that pastor is disqualified because he's a striker now or something I think it's the attitude and spirit of someone that is literally you know just getting mad and punching people um I also think you know again if you look at court rulings in the law I'm not a hundred percent sure but I think that even today if someone exercised what we saw in those videos and the light spanking that it's not illegal but someone could correct me I'm not a lawyer I don't know exactly I think a lot of the laws about spousal abuse are are limited to the other stuff that we're talking about and those contexts so again I don't know I think courts would be would be in a difficult spot too on how they would rule on these things in 2024 but I don't let the courts decide what's right or wrong necessarily um obviously striking your wife I think is like punching your wife especially out of anger and I think that's wrong that's obviously condemned condemned super wrong we don't like it we hate it totally it's totally bad and so you know I just want to make that super clear um there's some other things that we can bring up let's let's see if we can re-empt this poll we've pretty much got a split poll right now a lot of people voted 47 votes we've got 27 saying maybe it can't you know maybe it's not condemned and then 21 saying yes for sure condemned never appropriate should never happen and you know hey I understand people have a split opinion on this um so you know that's fair and hey we get to talk about it I hope that people aren't just like well I just hate pastor Shelley now because he has a split opinion on this or or whatever but this let me just say this you're not gonna ever show up at steadfast baptist church I'm gonna preach this doctrine to you so you don't even have to worry about it if you're like mad about this or you don't like this I already gave you enough warning to tune off of the show you're only here because you wanted to hear what I actually had to say so you know it is what it is this is the one time if anybody ever asked me I'm gonna be like yeah just listen to this just listen to this show and hear every caveat this is the one time I'm gonna explain this and I would have never even done this if I didn't have just some of my opinions put out there without me actually getting to explain what I was saying and so you know again people can can believe whatever they want about me but I'm expressing my consistent held view I've had conversations with a lot there's a lot of witnesses of the fact that I've had this conversation months and months ago years ago I remember when I preached on it so like I've never changed my opinion on this I've only expressed my opinion and so that I'm suppressing now and I want to say you know when it comes to any controversy it's it's important we don't just repeat hearsay and I think also when it comes to witness testimony we have to be careful not just trusting someone just whatever witness or whatever testimony that they give now the Bible brings up this idea of multiple witnesses like to confirm things maybe in a criminal context maybe in you know just establishing facts but you know in the in America's judicial system we have that too you have to have multiple witnesses they go on trial and you know they cannot in a trial hearsay is not allowed and hearsay is something that you did not see you did not witness personally it's someone told you and that's not admissible in a court of law additionally when you're on trial and you have witnesses they also can be cross examined meaning that someone can ask them all kinds of questions to try and and try and figure out if they're actually telling the truth and really trying to get into the nitty-gritty on what they're actually saying and so you know when we are going to consider a witness in a serious situation you know you have to ask this question like were they in a sober state do they have any bias have they been cross examined do all these testimonies line up and you know when it came to Jesus Christ himself it said that many multiple like many witnesses came and testified but their witness didn't agree and meaning that they're saying different things and so just even though you have multiple witnesses it doesn't even necessarily make something true now of course when you do have multiple witnesses we should take that seriously we should consider what is being said and and you know with soberness and and everything like that but i also think we have to think like does this witness have a motive how are they communicating this is there evil intent are they in rebellion are they lying about things that we can fact check and you know that goes to the credibility of a particular witness you know when we have a woman who's suing some man for millions and millions of dollars saying that he did something to her that was inappropriate we sometimes have to question her motive and you know there's this big movement that came out this is like believe all women it's like this left hard liberal democrat philosophy you know what i think that that's a dangerous precedent of just quote believe all women or believe all witnesses or just believe it's like hey if someone said something about the new ifb just automatically true and i think there's some people they just have hatred in their heart or they they're just a little bit gullible or simple and sometimes they just they just want to believe something and then they hear something and they just they immediately go hook line and sinker for it and i think we have to be careful when it comes to that you know for me when it comes to a fellow church member especially a pastor i try to always give them the benefit of the doubt no matter what the accusations are until it seems credible there's there's not something you know discounting that person's testimony that they're not in like this obvious rebellion or something like that and and i think that we have to be careful that we don't just immediately believe you know all kinds of different testimony because you know people want to destroy the work of god i don't know if you understand this the devil exists folks there's really evil people out there and they can lie and people can misremember and people can invent things and people can change you know i think any of us when we try to remember facts sometimes we get them wrong we misremember and that doesn't necessarily mean that someone recounting something just because they misremembered a little changes the fact that that happened but i think that we have to be really careful that we don't just believe everything we hear believe everything on the internet believe every witness we have to be really careful and scrutinize and you know honestly if someone's even giving a testimony in an insincere way i just usually just just don't even just i'm not gonna believe any of it i'm just gonna kind of discard it and just kind of say like you know i would like to see this being in a sincere manner they're not like slandering and railing and having some kind of an ulterior motive i don't know what are your thoughts on this multiple witnesses there were multiple witnesses to convict naboth right in a plot to steal his vineyard they were sons of belial though and that doesn't make them credible multiple witnesses is not the only parameter by which we measure the credibility of an accusation so in order to take down a man of god they inquired of reprobates of sodomites to help them and assist them and and basically bringing forth false witnesses that that's basically how it worked right that's how it worked and and that's what i'm referencing and it's not even a conspiracy of just two because it was jezebel jezebel's that was involved and potentially she did she not send messengers to go and find two sons of belial yeah that's another person so like multiple we have tons of people involved in that particular scenario all in a conspiracy theory to essentially destroy naboth who'd done nothing wrong right now again sometimes people you know some people aren't naboth that are just perfect sometimes you do have like maybe a little bit of error a little bit of issue or you've done you know minor little things and then people just kind of can blow them out of proportion they can uh do things that are just you know not really fair characterizations you know when i see a video and it's literally someone talking and then they just splice and then the person's talking like i just think like wow that's pretty disingenuous you may have that's that's not really serious as of late um so you know again i'm not saying that those things can't be true i'm not saying that people couldn't you know talk to bad people and say things that are true of course but at the same time when people are being disingenuous when you see in the spiritual warfare all of these people that are evil and wicked agreeing with this testimony that makes me think there's something suspicious about it because because you know the bible makes a big deal about like this people harkening unto good spirits and people harkening unto evil spirits and i just remember like every single thing i said in the adam fanon thing every evil person said was all wrong all lies all bad and like everything adam fanon said even though i knew it was lies because i actually was going on behind the scene they're all like that's right that's good this is correct i love it and it's almost like the bible just comes to life here i want to go to first john again i think um because because it brings up uh this concept in first peter i'm sorry first john chapter four uh i think it's sorry i just want to repeat as you pull the verse up that once again because people keep talking about multiple witness multiple witness multiple witness two three witnesses four witnesses whatever the case may be the number of witnesses that testify to something is not the only parameter by which you determine the veracity of claims or the right truthfulness of claims yeah the bible says in first john chapter four verse five they are of the world therefore speak they of the world and the world heareth them we are of god he that knoweth god heareth us he that is not of god heareth not us hereby know we the spirit of truth and the spirit of error now of course this context is for sure about who christ is his divinity that christ came in the flesh that is the context no way around it that's what this passage is talking about and i think that that helps us recognize people that are saved and people that are not saved but i think that this principle could be applied a little bit broader too and just general that it seems like people who are saved are more likely to hear the spirit of god you know jesus christ said my sheep hear my voice and they're not going to follow a stranger spirit will guide you into world truth and i think that people who are not saved are evil workers they're going to kind of hear that spirit of error and and so i think it's something we should just least consider that when all of the really evil wicked people are on one side you know we need to be careful that they're they're not giving the spirit of error in that particular situation um you know what do you think about those verses in in a broader context do you think that that's fair do you think that that's equally applied yeah of course i mean i i think that you have to pay close attention to who is allied with its with each side now you had brought up what happened with steadfast baptist church in 2019 i'm talking about steadfast and dfw when the pastor stepped down and obviously the sodomites were against him too i understand there are exceptions to some of these things we're describing however in general i think it is prudent look at who is allied with the opposing team all a bunch of people that are disgruntled all a bunch of people who hate god i mean you have a bunch of sodomites that are doing victory laps and things of that nature and when you observe that i think it should help you make a determination as to who is telling the truth that especially when accusers actually go to sodomites when that is their decision that's the people that's the animals i should say those are the animals that they want to go to to make an accusation that should also help you determine yeah so we've we've talked about a lot of common things we talked about just the spiritual fruit we've talked about people who are respectful and seeming sincere we've talked about you know women who are blowing off their mouth you know one thing that i've noticed is a lot of people in these spiritual battles they try to threaten me and curse me by not going with their side and you know in a recent battle that we've been going through i've had people like literally saying i'm going to be cursed of god and i'm going to have strange punishments and cruel punishments and and just saying all this really crazy stuff threatening me trying to provoke me you're a coward and all this different stuff this in private message or comments just texting me messaging you know whatever all this kind of stuff and i'm thinking like that doesn't make me want to join your side you know to me like i don't really want to agree with someone when when they're trying to coerce me through these type of methods um i think also when we notice people that are just excessively slandering and railing that makes me think that they're not being very sincere and i think when people are you know kind of taking the bible and just they're not really being fair with the text they're not trying to be fair with any point that they're just you know just saying whatever they want to say that that's a danger and we need to pay attention to that in spiritual warfare i felt like adam fannin kind of changed his doctrine on ordination from convenience he he seemed like because he called around other pastors asking to ordain him and then when they wouldn't then now he believes that the congregation can ordain him you know some people believe that i think that that's wrong i preached about that but i definitely didn't change my doctrine after it became convenient that no one would ordain me or something like that i i think that if you know when i was at faithful word pastor anderson had just said you know what i don't want to ordain you i don't think that you are a good fit but you can serve here then i would have just kept serving or you know eventually maybe i would have moved but i just got another church i would have probably just at that point just decided you know what i'm not i i'm gonna respect that opinion i'm not going to just go and just find 10 people off the street to call me pastor and just start a church you know what i mean like i just didn't agree with that plus i'm just not going to change my doctrine just because it's convenient for me um i i also want to bring up uh another passage i think you can pull this up on the screen i don't know if we had any uh more callers you could call two three one baptist if you want to call we're we're talking about controversial stuff folks all right here's another thing i just kind of a tip i think when we're in a warfare we're in a battle we want to be careful that we don't get lifted up or become prideful to where we're talking about things that maybe we haven't had success in you know and like for me i didn't want to ordain a pastor until i had successfully pastored for five years because because i thought like you know it doesn't really make sense and yeah that's just my personal standard i'm not against people that don't do that i'm just saying i just kind of thought this personally because i thought like it doesn't seem right for me to do something like ordaining another pastor and identifying another pastor when i myself haven't even pastored for at least a while successfully and like god confirming the things that i've been doing and helping me and so you know i i think that sometimes we should be careful to you know think about like have we had success in this area you know people asking you advice like do you really know what you're talking about have you really gone through that and you know just being careful that we don't think that we're smarter than we really are because most of the time when we don't have experience in an area we're probably not the best advice givers you know people that have never been married probably shouldn't be giving you marriage advice people that have never had kids should probably not be giving advice for children people that are not a doctor should probably not be giving medical advice and you know it's funny to me it's like people that haven't even read the bible cover to cover and the bible literally says women not to use the bible they're gonna this woman's gonna correct pastors right this woman's gonna tell and teach pastors what the bible says and you know it just kind of it just it seems uncommonly and inappropriate and i think that we should be careful you know if we haven't had success you know i try to be really even careful when it comes to some parenting advice and just you know advice uh even in marriage like uh you know i haven't been married for 50 years i would think a person that's been successfully married for 50 years might be even better at giving some marriage advice than me i think someone that's raised adult children or raised teenagers is going to be able to give better advice than me i think that people that have worked on cars are going to give you way better advice about cars than me i don't know much about cars obviously you know you could probably tell me a lot more about 7-eleven than i could you know and so uh just be based on your accent alone at least say camels that would have made more sense flying flying uh carpets or at least at least you know you could probably give advice on camp 7-eleven that's indian i'm not i guess pakistani's worked there as well but that has nothing to do with me 231 baptist if you want to call in i don't even like 7-eleven yeah what i'd much rather go to a different gas call centers but bucky's for example put a put a w in the chat if you want us to do the calling hotlines again i don't know if people want us to do that show again but um i think a lot of people enjoyed it a couple seasons ago when we did it uh we'll make ben do the indian accent again so put it put a w in the chat if you want to us to do the calling um uh hotlines again i think i think a lot of people actually like that show or we're getting some w's there ben maybe i should put eyes in there for indian you just give us some indian here for a minute okay give us a little bit of the call center how are you doing today i used to think that i was somewhat good at this accent and then i heard you do it and i was like i'm terrible i did it very good i did it better than you you do it so well you love the you love the seven but i love indians i really do give him the gift card get your social security number it's all the indians out there take the accent that i do as a tribute not as i think it's fun i think it's funny um you know i i made a post a day talking about how i don't like indian food and i think i triggered some people um certainly i i think i just trigger people by existing i don't know about you but like i think i think that people just really don't uh like me and that's okay that's okay you know i've never i've never been someone that just has to get everybody to like me or something like that uh of course i try to make friends and i try to uh reach out and meet new people and i love our supporters i love our fans on the show you guys are why we do the show we have we have a pretty big audience tonight you know about almost you know 500 people someone said i guess we got a lot of haters in the chat though someone says i love the bible q and a i would concur with that those are always fun shows bible q and a yeah we got to do another one of those those are fun um there's hate watchers for sure yeah we got it we got another caller uh we got someone stephanie we're gonna go ahead and bring her on the show uh hey stephanie how's it going good how are you guys doing great where are you from i am from maine wow that's really north is it cold up there already well actually i used to live in northern maine now i'm like central maine okay so it's to me it's still warm it was it was winter in the middle of warm uh tonight it's probably like 50. okay i didn't actually check but that's cold for me yeah like people here would be wearing like a like a coat and a hat and like scarfs and stuff like that that would be that would be chilly if the first number if the first digit starts with a six i'm grabbing a jacket thanks so much for calling in did you want to make a comment or ask a question or i i guess i had both um i really i love your show like i really enjoy it um and so i wanted to thank you for what you do um and i guess just as a comment i uh you know pastor anderson was joking about how that people listen to people when they butt dial and stuff like and i was very curious i have to say when i saw that you had talked uh to john on the phone and and uh you know that that was the whole thing but i wanted to tell you that i actually had more respect for you even after watching that video uh because i thought you were an awesome peacemaker um i i was like boy i i respect him even more because there was nothing i didn't think anything condemnable when you didn't even know that people were going to be listening so i just thought it was handled very well in my opinion but i think i made things worse but i appreciate you know the sentiment because i definitely well i was definitely i definitely was the spirit of the call was me to just try and you know talk people and just try to level with them and try to help encourage them to make the right decision and you know i don't know if i think i was trying to do the right thing i think i made you know i wish i uh i kind of wish i hadn't got involved in hindsight but you know i wasn't trying to hurt anybody's feelings or uh bring up controversial topics or something but you know it is what it is so thanks for being a little obviously they think well yeah they say characters you know what you say or do when you don't know that somebody is listening and i just thought you did an awesome job and on that note i just wanted to say that as a woman i can definitely say that women do absolutely say crazy ridiculous things because i know i've said a million things like that and not all the time it's just yeah and look everybody does i was just saying you know of course women unfortunately they can be very emotional and sometimes they're really good with their words and they say things they didn't really mean in the moment and you know doesn't make them bad or evil it's just i think i think men need to realize that that's reality so that they don't take everything so seriously and personal and um that when you go through your first fight in marriage it's okay and you know you can reconcile and you don't have to take everything uh as gospel truth or something sound marriage advice right here yeah really thanks for those comments yeah well i know i i know my husband's heard me say absolutely ridiculous things especially after i have a baby so it is true but um i i have to i guess one of my other things i wanted to say was that you know all this week you know my husband and i've been talking about all these things and like well what do we think and you know like is you know anyway i actually do know a couple i um a christian couple that i completely respect and i know that they practice to that in their marriage um and they raised three gods of kids and you know one of them went to house anderson and is one a bunch of people to christ and like i guess you know you showed that that video of you know like john Wayne and everything it's kind of embarrassing i just wanted to realize it's historical well it is and you kind of wonder like well how do people view in history and everything and obviously there's a million ways that you could apply that and it could be go from maybe okay to really terrible like you guys said but like i don't see that it's always been in every situation a horrible thing you know but um you know i've seen some good families that you know apparently you know that was a little how much did we have to pay you to come on here and say this i'm just curious actually i really love this family that you know that i that i'm speaking of and so i'm like when i think of it i'm like well they turned out fine and also whatever you know but um and then i've always been curious this may be a nosy question but always wondered if ben was ever going to be a pastor um obviously you seem like pastor material but maybe i'm not supposed to ask that i always wonder you know we never know the future so i mean it's just not something i i think that a young man they could have that desire and there's nothing wrong with the desire but once you once you feel and i do have that desire but i just don't focus on it because i'm focused on what's going on in my life right now and just being a good church member and it's not going to happen so that way i can just humbly serve in the church and and go about my business that's my attitude well selfishly i like you working with me so i'll just say it that way that's but uh uh no i appreciate that do you have any do you have any other questions yeah probably not for tonight but i have always wanted to hear one of you guys um talk on ectopic pregnancy in the sense like uh the procedures that you have to go through when you have one and i've always prayed like lord please help me not to have one because it seems like such a bad situation to be in you know i'm not an expert on that subject but i do know about it and it's definitely a difficult situation and you know i think that when people are in really difficult situations like that god probably gives them grace um i'm not gonna yeah i don't want to judge any situation because i think they're all unique and so you know um i don't know that i would really be an expert to talk about that but obviously i'm pro-life about as pro-life as you can get but at the same time i understand you know there could be a complication and it really is a serious situation and so you know i don't i don't know i think that people who want to bring in all this pro-abortion stuff based on these like super super rare medical anomalies are just not very sincere or genuine and so you know that's just kind of my opinion i don't know if you do you know much about ectopic pregnancy i don't want to talk about something i don't know about sure so all right well thanks so much for calling in we really appreciate it and really appreciate comments thanks for being a listener and watcher and god bless you up there in maine stay warm for as long as you can because i'm sure it's gonna get cold pretty soon but thank you so much god bless have a good night i think we have another caller uh alex we can bring him on hey alex how's it going hey hello pastor um i just had a brief question i just wanted to ask was um in this uh context of the spousal uh discipline one of the uh metaphors brought up was the idea of like well if they commit adultery they should be dead right um and so what my question is is that is what would you view on church discipline in regards to adultery like versus like if i was if someone was to be continued married with their spouse and then were to have an affair versus a divorce and remarriage and i guess the verse i just wanted to bring up uh to put the frame this would be uh matthew 532 when it says like that whosoever shall put away his wife saving for the cause of fornication causes her to commit adultery and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced commits adultery so it's like would that be the same like the same level of discipline in regards to that person okay i think i think i understand your question um i i think when it comes to sins like there's different levels of sin and so like with adultery i think that there's different layers like the bible talks about looking on a woman with lust that's a form of adultery but it's a mild form in comparison to actual physical adultery and then i think that there's another form of adultery that you just brought up which is divorce and remarriage which is a type of adultery but the i think when it comes to the criminal code and the criminal law in the old testament that that would have been limited to physical adultery and it would not be these other milder forms just like the bible says if you hate your brother in your heart you're committing murder but i don't obviously that doesn't apply from a criminal code perspective we're not going to put people to death for thought crimes but it's just simply saying it's a lesser form because you're not even technically put to death for all manslaughter it has to be that you are waiting with guile in your heart and it's premeditated that would be the only one that's actually receiving the death penalty just outright then there's cases where it's an accident and as long as you could get to the city of refuge then you'd be free and then there's ones where it's self-defense and then there's just no punishment for that so you see kind of like different forms of murder and different forms of manslaughter and different forms of killing and then you see like different forms of adultery so when it comes to church discipline the bible doesn't say anything about adultery it actually brings up lesser sins like fornication which would be kind of related but it's not the same sin and so my doctrinal statement that we've had on our church website i've had it on god resource for for years almost a decade probably has said that i believe that someone should be kicked out for all the sins mentioned in first corinthians 5 and any capital punishment crimes excluding things like the the sabbath but that being said you know if if if someone committed divorce and remarriage i do believe that that like the moment of them getting married is a type in a form of adultery but that's the only time that that sin occurs i think the rest of their relationship that it's not like this ongoing sin so you know i don't think that anybody should be kicked out of church for having been divorced and remarried i think that it's wrong i don't approve of it i don't agree it with it we'll never marry that person our church will never perform that wedding but at the same time like i wouldn't throw some out of church or church discipline for that if someone was in adultery and and they're not repentant and they're not correcting that behavior then they they could and would be church disciplined i think that you know that is between that couple um and you'd probably have to it would be grievous sin that you would have to deal with but i do think that those things are separate and it would be in an unrepentant manner that they're continuing this you know lifestyle that they would have to be addressed so i i hope that does that kind of answer your question oh yeah no no that puts in the context because like for example when david committed adultery that was an affair so that's why when nathan told him that he should like the actual death there should be the death penalty applied but i guess i could see the difference when like yeah when you frame it that way where it's like well you committed adultery in your mind versus divorce and remarriage it's much different in terms of degrees when you actually have a vow with your current spouse and then you didn't separate and then uh you know deceive them by that way so no it makes sense yeah and i mean the sad reality is probably everybody has bad thoughts and so we were all guilty of sin and and that was the point i think jesus was trying to just make it clear we all sin even if you've never commit physical adultery we've all probably had bad thoughts and done things that we shouldn't do and so the point of what jesus was making is no one could say they're without sin no one is perfect and that's why we need a savior that's when we need to believe on the lord jesus christ so if you got through all of that spousal discipline this is when you get saved folks believe on the lord jesus christ and thou shalt be saved no matter what you've done no matter who you are if you believe in jesus christ he gives you a free gift of salvation all you have to do is believe on him one time and once you're saved you're always saved jesus really paid it all he gives you eternal life and all this this is what's so funny people are dying and going to hell every single second and we're like arguing the minutia of a doctrine that almost nobody champions believes is preaching is teaching we've all come to the same conclusion yeah like i don't even know somebody that's preaching this and teaching this and everybody's like so mad about it when the whole world's dying and going to hell when iran and israel are about to start world war three when we're about to have kamala harris take over our country with like pure communism and people are just freaking out and it's like can we not tell this is a spiritual attack this is spiritual warfare i don't know if alex is still on the line thanks for calling you can drop him if you if you hadn't but thanks for calling here's the thing we are in a spiritual battle and the new ifb is is like at an all-time high two weeks ago or a week ago i mean we have like verity baptist church breaking record attendance steadfast baptist church breaking record attendance first work church breaking record attendance more church churches being started more guys on the basically in the batter's box about to get ordained about to start more churches about to do more missions trips about to get more people safe you really think the devil's is going to lay down and just say you know what i'm just going to let the new ifb do whatever it wants or do you think he's going to try and rile up as much as heat evil lies slant i mean what is the devil the father of lies how does the devil attack through lies slander manipulation deception you know the bible talks about evil workers what they do is they seduce and they seduce you through lies it's you know sometimes people put this in kind of a bedroom context but that's not always necessarily the context go to my screen here second timothy chapter three verse 13 but evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse deceiving and being deceived so the bible says as we get closer to the end times we're going to have more deception more seduction more evil and it's going to be it's going to be so difficult and so hard that good people are going to get sucked into deceptions good people are going to get seduced into evil and we have to be vigilant we have to be careful we have to make sure that we're right and it's hard this this is not this is not just always super easy and you know i've gone through a lot of battles and a lot of times where i i'm just going to be honest like i didn't know what to do i've gone back on both sides i've struggled um you know i'm human just like the rest of y'all and you know but this is what i do know i want to make sure that i'm still in church i'm still reading my bible i'm still going soul winning and i think the worst thing you can do is leave a soul-winning church and stop soul-winning stop reading your bible yeah stop doing the work like that's what the devil wants the devil wants us to bite and devour the devil wants us to have uh discontentment the bible wants us to get all upset with each other over minor little grievances that don't even matter things that are never going to happen things that nobody's even saying people want to just get all upset people want to get mad about a church that they have nothing to do with they're never going to go to that they have no control over and they're going to they're going to make their decision of how they're going to go to church or what they're going to do based on that like think think about this i what if someone said i'm not going to go to this church because of a completely different church and their decisions that this church has no power and authority over like who's really in a cult at that point it seems like you're following someone somewhere else some thing online they act like it's a denomination or some weird thing that's going on you know that that doesn't seem legitimate you know when it comes to a doctrine that nobody's doing nobody's teaching nobody's applying and you're gonna get so offended that you just won't serve god anymore you know that's just not right now again no one has to go to a new happy church to serve god no one has to go to steadfast baptist church to serve god there's plenty of great fundamental baptist churches there's plenty of king james churches plenty of sony churches you know so you can serve god wherever you're at but like pull up our poll are we really going to say like half of our group can't serve god because uh oh i'll put it on my screen i think i can pull it on my screen just uh pull up my screen and i got the poll yeah here's our results folks on spousal discipline the vast majority say it's never appropriate so there you go the vast majority disagree they say 59 votes they disapprove 51 votes said they can't condemn it and so you know i think the poll closed at this point pretty close actually 110 yeah so 54 46 not quite 50 50 and the winner goes to it's never appropriate never condemned and you know hey that holds some weight in the sense that you know i'm sure a lot of people that listen to our show um are christians spirit-filled men of god uh people and women and people that um definitely you know really take the bible seriously and and we can see that it was uh you know a split decision so i i can respect that i can you know i i can respect the other position frankly speaking it would be easier for me to believe that because i don't even want to encourage it anyways and i'm not going to i'm sure there's going to be so many videos did you see what the baptist bias did this is what they're going to do did you see this video the baptist bias showed and then they're going to show that video yes and they're going to be like did you see pastor shelly say this word and then they're going to show a video of me saying that word and then they say did you hear this horrible music and then they're going to show that music and then they're going to make their own music with ai and they're just they're just like really instead of actually going out and preaching the gospel this week they're gonna make more videos attacking churches that they hate like that's their life there are people who their entire life is just making videos against churches they don't like unified and then they're gonna make podcasts and have all these people come on and just trash churches that they don't like and then make posts about church they don't like and just focus on churches they don't like and you have to ask yourself this question like whose side are you even on anymore like hey call someone out move on like why do you have to just obsess and it's just weird it's just so weird how people just obsess with new ib churches obsessed with new ib new ib personalities and to the point where they commit literal crimes folks and we've had people we've had judgments come in our favor civil judgments condemning people who have stolen our money we've been evicted we've been sued we've had people break our windows we would have people damage and vandalize our property and commit all kinds of crimes we've had people just obsess and just stalk us and dox me i've been doxed so many times and people are just sharing all kinds of weird interviews secret recordings this isn't i've been secretly recorded so many times and people just uploaded the internet and they just i mean it's just like there is a spiritual war folks you need to get into church you need to read your bible you need to support your pastor you need to love him and be gracious unto him and you know where you disagree just disagree but just don't don't attack him you know if you don't if you don't appreciate some of the things your pastor says or does that's fine just be quiet about it i've got a lot of churches that you know and growing up where i don't agree with everything but i just keep my mouth shut i just serve where i can go where i can you know if there's a certain preacher online that you think is doing something wrong or you don't like stuff well you know what don't listen to those sermons just ignore those messages and and listen the messages you agree with listen to the stuff you like you know we should spend more time listening to sermons that we like and people that we like than listening to stuff that we hate and listening to people that we don't want to listen to and and i think that as christians we need to walk in the spirit and not in the flesh and we need to try and think on things that are pure and lovely and hey if you've marked somebody go for it you know mark them and then move on but like at the end of the day we need to do our best to focus on the importance of getting people saved and serving you know the lord jesus christ and loving our wives and loving our families and um you know doing all the things that we can to do what's right and and i'm just i'm just sick of infighting i'm sick of christians hating on other christians i'm sick of all the turmoil and i'm sick of the devil winning because the devil's winning when we're fighting each other you know and even me like with the baptist bias i'm trying to reach people that aren't even baptist i'm trying to drag them in and it's hard to want to drag like it's hard for people want to be drug into it to the drama it's hard it's hard it's hard for me want to drug in when they feel like if they disagree slightly if they have a bad opinion it's like they're an evil person you're a wicked person if you can't condemn spousal discipline you're an evil wicked satan-filled wife beating god hating you know in the flesh horrible person it's just like whoa you know like really is that is that what we've devolved to at this point like shouldn't we in meekness instruct those that oppose themselves i mean if you gen if you genuine and sincerely believe i'm wrong can you at least level with me can you not lie about me can you not misrepresent me can you try to have empathy towards me you know i would love for some i'm always willing to change my opinion i've always said that open the bible show me where i'm wrong and you know i'm ready to change on anything i'm ready to change on anything and you know what i'm not saying i'm right on everything i'm sure i've got i'm sure i've got blind spots i'm sure i've done things wrong but i'll tell you this i want to be loyal to the bible first and then i want to be loyal to my church i want to be loyal to my family and i want to be loyal to my friends and you know i want to give all of them the benefit of the doubt and i really i really try to do that to even my enemies and you know i preach whole sermons defending all kinds of people in the past that had some some issues you know people like jack isles i preach whole sermons defending him and you know he had some rough spots he had his entire he had his family like trashing him at times he had his daughter going ted talks just trashing him saying he's a cult leader and committed adultery he had a husband come out and say that he committed adultery he had church members coming out saying committed adultery it made national news he had to like go through all this like drama j frank norris uh had a guy come in threatening to kill him for preaching against the catholic church and he ended up in the scuffle shot and killed him and then he had to go on trial for murder and you know there's been some serious serious trials throughout the history and i don't think that 2024 is going to be the exception where there isn't going to be major trials major warfare major attacks major deceptions and it's it's not going to stop because the devil is wanting to drag as many people into hell with them as possible and what a shame if there was someone we could get saved and instead of getting them saved we were arguing we didn't go to church because of a slight disagreement on spousal discipline being condemned or not even when people say that they're not going to preach it like isn't that crazy i went on a rant i'm sorry no i'm i was enjoying it i'll keep going if you want but i just think that it is absurd to drop out of a church to stop going to a church based on a difference that is so nuanced like we both agree we're not going to practice this spousal corporal punishment deal and we both agree that it is not the best thing to do that it doesn't work very well that we don't want to do it and all that kind of thing but then there's a nuance where one side is just simply stating there's nothing in the bible that can be used to condemn it okay or that the bible is silent on this issue so it's such a nuanced deal and then you're going to just drop out of a soul-winning king james only salvation by faith believing you know reprobate doctrine believing post-trip re-wrath replacement theology the doctrines dialed in there's zeal people love the lord the preaching's great tons of bible great influence on your kids great influence on your family you can make lots of friends there's lost people out there to go out and win to the lord jesus christ you're going to throw all of that away the conferences the mission trips the opportunities to serve the lord like never before we're going to throw it all away because of this little nuance i'll never get it and look obviously with some of the recent controversy i'm not getting into it i've seen good people on both sides of it and i'm i'm i'm gonna try my best to respect people that have different opinions but at the same time i think that you know my encouragement would be if you're out there and you go to a church and maybe you don't really agree with what your pastor has said in the last few weeks or done in the last few weeks i would just encourage you just give him grace go to and just go to church just support your pastor if you feel it's necessary to say like hey i just want to let you know i kind of disagree i don't really understand this give them a chance to explain it to you but you know what just serve where you can love your pastor where you can you know i know a lot of new ip pastors personally and they're some of the nicest gracious people i know they really love the lord they really love their pastor or they love their congregation and you know i just i hope that we can focus on the true enemies of god here and it just seems weird for us to all just be hyper focused on what other people are doing you know i think we should try to you know be careful when we're not entering into other people's you know business and you know i'm myself included i've i can't say that every decision i made this week has been right and you know i'm i'll just be honest with you my chest has been like physically hurting for the last like week and a half it just it's been a it's been a heavy weight and i'm sure that i know for a fact that i'm not going through the worst of this even close to there are other people and other friends of mine are going it's an unimaginable trial and evil and i feel i feel very bad for them and i'm sorry that they're struggling and i think that a lot of people are struggling that care about the new fbe they care about um some of the pastors and you know i hope that we'll take this seriously you know i didn't know what i didn't know what to play into the show we talked about a lot of spicy stuff we talked about some serious stuff and i hope that people will give us some grace i really appreciate our audience i'm sure some of our audience hates me and that's okay i know that you'll watch me you'll keep watching me and you'll keep watching all of us and the caller didn't you know she was nice yeah that was a pleasant that was a pleasant color thanks so much shout out to steph from maine and and shout out to alex from dallas and and shout out to i think we had steven from what was it steven from indiana and then we had brad brad steven where was brad from alex indiana too okay yeah yeah stephanie was nice thanks so much we have great fans i agree and i like the fans and then we have some insincere trolls that are in there yes um but you know what the trolls you know give us a thought you know you got to give us a like or something at least every once in a while hey they're at least helping our view count yeah just every once one thing i want to add too is that if you're a church member and you don't agree with let's say 100 of what your pastor says meaning that you're not in 100 lockstep and there are things that your pastor says from time to time that you disagree with i'm gonna say this and it's gonna sound mean just get over it there is not another human being on the face of the planet that you will 100 agree with all of the time it doesn't exist it doesn't happen that way so don't nitpick your leadership and just on the smallest of issues decide because your pastor is not in complete lockstep with you the church is going to throw everything out throw the baby out with the bath water and walk out of your church and miss out on opportunities to serve god and earn spiritual rewards in heaven just have a little bit of perspective is the point i'm making and if you come to your pastor with something and he doesn't agree with your viewpoint there's a radical concept known as agree to disagree it's all right he doesn't want to condemn something you do great teach your family that and go about your business you know i want to make kind of a plea here with you about church and and this is i think if you actually believe the bible and you're a christian please consider this we cannot fight against god whatever whatever god wants is gonna happen and and i think that you know sometimes we just have to say you know what god's in control whatever is going to happen with the churches of the of the new ifb or former new ifb or old ifb or baptist or other christians like whatever god wants to happen is going to happen and we can't fight against him and i think sometimes we need to just trust we need to trust god's ability to avenge we have to trust god's ability to to take care of things i think if someone were to resist god they're going to have an inevitable destruction it's just it's just period and i think for us like we can just say you know what i'm going to go to church and support my pastor and we'll let god you know deal with the situation and you know i pray because we because there's been good people split on both sides i hope that god will be gracious to both sides and any controversy you know i hope that god will spare those who have maybe been on the wrong side of things and you know i think that's biblical because the apostle paul he says specifically about people turning against him he said at my first answer no man stood with me but all men forsook me and he said i pray that god would not lay it to their charge so the apostle paul having the biggest heart of probably any christians to ever live had a bunch of people turn on him and do him evil but yet he still prayed that god would be merciful to those people we see in job his friends uh need prayer because they they made uh they made some mistakes in the criticisms that they hurled at their friend and they were confused about the situation and joe prayed for them and god you know was merciful unto those people and you know i think in in any of these situations sometimes you're gonna have people on both sides and i think that i think time will tell and just think i'm not above being wrong or changing my mind and i think that um we can all sometimes be humble and say you know what in hindsight i should have made a different decision and maybe god is gracious unto me and so i hope that we realize that god's will is gonna be accomplished god always blesses what's biblical best and i think we should all try to avoid you know railing and attacking trying to hurt churches i think we need to try and do our best to um do good under the people that we disagree with and you know i i hope that i hope someone out there well that was on the fence of you know should i attack or do evil that maybe they would say okay i'm just gonna cool down i'm just gonna let it go i'm gonna serve christ and focus on the good you know i mean is that is that a reasonable plea i mean can we fight god ben no not at all and we want to make sure that we don't find ourselves on the side of any conflict that is fighting against god or the lord's anointed anything like that discounting those who are just false prophet reprobates or sodomites or something like that who may be on the opposite end of this there could be some good people on both sides like you described and it is important to show some grace there so and it'd be nice if they showed us a little bit of that but instead we're just referred to as evil and now of course we just want to beat the crap out of our wives every day apparently yeah i'm sure a lot of people tuning in are going to watch the show hate me and you know what i'm i'm not going to hate you back necessarily if you're a reprobate then i hate you but you know if you're not a reprobate i love you if you're not saved get saved watch the bible way to heaven if you are saved give me grace i'll try to give you grace obviously i'm going to call it slanders and railers and i'm still going to do my job i'm still going to preach hard i'm still going to preach the bible i'm excited about church this weekend we got a kids conference and i'm really you know excited to try and pour into some of those kiddos and and try to encourage them to serve the lord and so you know pray for steadfast baptist church pray for our friends pray for baptists pray for christians pray for this difficult you know time that we're living in in the world because frankly a lot of people are being killed all over the world there's a lot of warfare our government's going downhill faster than we can even keep up our the censorship is extreme there's there's a lot of uh there's a lot of need for good it's a dark world it's a very dark world and we appreciate our audience thanks for tuning in live we have some great guests coming up for the end of the season i we booked some awesome guests you want to keep watching we've got a few more shows we're going to do an election live stream join us baptistbias.com slash join thanks for everybody for being on the show with us the collins and everything like that ben i'll give you some final words and i'll wrap up not much else to say other than we appreciate you guys tuning in to the stream tonight and hopefully we were able to provide you with i guess a distraction or maybe just some entertainment for the night given that many of you are probably deeply involved with when it went on over the last several days observing it and things like that but hopefully we were able to provide you with something entertaining for the evening and also just covering a topic spiritual warfare that the bible heavily emphasizes and one that i think we were able to provide some more commentary on tonight yeah covered a controversial topic for sure but hey we're not afraid to approach anything here and of course whenever we do we're going to make sure that we do it with a baptist bias so there you go i got the slogan in there pastor shelly i'll throw it back over to you but before i do um you are in a difficult situation as the leader of our church and i think that i can tell that you always are wondering did i do the right thing here am i making the right decision when i do a or b or c or d or whatever the case may be all the time you're always i think you're harshest critic but i did want you to understand that your church members are behind you and we're not monday morning quarterbacks here we realize the difficulty of the decisions that you have to make and and we got we got your back that's all i wanted to say is we got your back well i appreciate that and of course you know sometimes you know you just gotta have to you just have to pick make a decision just move on and you know if it's the wrong decision well we'll suffer if it's not but we can't just constantly try to figure it out we gotta sometimes just make a decision move on you gotta fork in the road go left to right and you know try to make the best decision you can praise god that he gives us so much grace and uh you know what i really uh i really appreciate you guys tuning in live appreciate the chat appreciate the comments appreciate the poll appreciate all of you guys tune in next week 8 p.m the baptist bias everybody's got a perspective out there folks but you need to get the baptist bias you