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Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. 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Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I just wanna point out, this brilliant statement, we can see that the horizon is horizontal. That's the point that he just made. So does he, or something this way? We see the horizon horizontal. Wow! That's how, I mean it's funny when you just slow down you just pay attention to the statements by that the horizon is horizontal as his opening statement all right let's keep playing thing in the world as if the earth is flat we fly the plane as if the earth is flat and stationary so on the surface unintended right everything is the default being that the earth is flat stationary of course we see everything in the sky move etc so there's a claim that the opposite of that is true so actually logic right that has a pretty substantial burden of proof we've already substantiated just with the default empirical position but um that's kind of the meta here and one thing that happens a lot is people typically they say well if the earth is flat then how does this work you know like oh well what is the moon then you know and I've never been to the moon by the way no one has and I don't know what it is I don't need to know what it is to falsify this claim that the earth is a globe right so falsification is independent of replacement that's important and hopefully we can keep that in mind going through the conversation because if the tactic is just to say if I can get a gotcha on the flat earth there of how the whole universe works and somehow the earth comes a ball again that's an illogical way to go about it and then I'll go through some of the evidences that we have that directly refute it um you go back into time you get to 1887 Mickelson Morley they did the interferometry test and it showed that the earth is not moving so much so that the traveler named Einstein had to come in and change all physics so we don't have to wait time slows down and the measuring rod contracted to deceive us into thinking that the earth is stationary and that's the modern claim of physics today the claim the earth is moving through space you actually have to say time slows down to trick you into thinking so and that's a positive claim that literally can't be verified at all that test has been replicated hundreds of times even in modern history so the interferometry measurements show that the earth's not moving it's the most precise way to measure motion in the world and actually when we do detect the rotational motion with say ringways or gyros it changes with altitude which is impossible on a sphere the actual measurement would have to stay the same at latitude regardless of altitude so that's a direct falsification of the claim that the earth is moving which is actually again the positive claim needs to be substantiated anyway as to the the flat part of it like I said we already utilize the earth as if it's flat we make plain survey measurements we literally measure the earth to be flat that's how we use civil engineering to build runways railways bridges our entire life is literally built upon the understanding the earth's flat and the flat earth measurements called plain survey measurements what then happens is people take those flat earth measurements stitch them together and claim the Ursa globe with a presupposed our value and so that's going to get into how we know for sure that this globe model that was brought to us by Jesuits isn't correct we actually falsified the radius so if the radius value is wrong the entire model is wrong as the globe models day and night cycle uses that gravity uses that distances on the earth use that everything about the model boils down to the radius value of the sphere that is proposed the way that we have falsified that and there are many ways we've shown that the horizon is in fact not physical it's apparent and we've seen the horizon over 10 times further than it needs to be requiring the radius value be 250,000 miles away basically just saying the our word saying refraction doesn't make it sure you have to substantiate that we also have a line of sight radio wave transmissions that go far beyond the limit limit of the curvature of the earth and microwave transmissions up to 10,000 miles and it should get blocked to say a couple hundred miles and so we've that's a physical test that shows that the earth is a stationary plane and there are there are many more right so really just to reiterate it because I think I'm coming up on the five minutes that the simple part is that 30 seconds a simple part is that we have our burden of proof substantiated as the default that the earth is stationary plane that the stuff in the sky moves and then the claim that the earth is actually the opposite of that requires the burden of proof and we want to step further and even tested that claim and falsify the rate our value and claim of motion therefore you know it can't be anything other than the stationary plane okay so let's okay that was almost exactly and so I want to I wanted to give a fair chance of him going through his entire opening statement here number one he says that every empirical evidence does supports a stationary plane he says that we don't experience the earth moving which again is basically my point two from our argument chart he brings up the Michelson Morley experiment and claims that essentially that that proves that the earth is not moving he brings it back to the rise in his horizontal he also said all civil engineering is based on specifically that there's no curvature but there are legitimate bridges that are built where that you can actually see the curvature of the earth so there's there's two that I wanted to bring up there's the Verrazano narrows bridge which you have essentially two major poles that are put there and it's it's basically at the base closer together than it is at the top and this specific article even goes through and it kind of illustrates what we're talking about but it's approximately like one and a half inches or one and five eight inches that the Verrazano narrows bridge when you take those two major columns and you look at specifically the base versus the the top that the bases are closer together than the top will and they've also measured that they're perfectly straight so they're perfectly straight perfectly level but somehow the bases are closer together than the tops this is due to the curvature of the earth again the curvature of the earth is estimated to be approximately eight inches per mile so you're talking about something that would have to be very large and very big to see any kind of scale where this is impacted whatsoever so this is a specific example I think we have another link maybe we can pull up the the Humber bridge or the Humber bridge which is also another example of this and we can even show maybe some pictures I think I had a picture in there of specifically that specific that bridge but these suspension bridges where they have these wires that are going taught between these columns they have to specifically account for a little bit of curvature yeah here's a picture of the Barton Humber bridge that connects also to Essel which is or Hessel which is in UK so this is a UK bridge the other bridge that we brought up was one in New York what do you think like he's saying all civil engineering what about this engineer how about this as an exception right here yeah I mean it's pretty straightforward I'm not really sure what else I can add other than that's pretty straightforward and seems to make sense to me you'd have to say that they're lying on that point I guess so or I guess you know to play devil's advocate do flat earthers argue that there is a curvature it's just maybe not as pronounced or something like that I mean is that something you've heard no I think it's I think flat it's like literally they take it literally obviously there's there's elevation change so you know when they say flat I mean I think it's relative and it doesn't seem like they ever bring up elevation change too but you know if here's the thing if these these columns or these posts that are put into the into the river or this you know this portion of water if they can measure them to be perfectly level and perpendicular to the ground and be perfectly straight and the other one's perfectly straight and yet the bases are closer together than the tops there's really no explanation except for curvature at that point I mean you can always have elevation changes and other things but just to claim well no one ever does this I mean these people are saying that they did yeah and that they do basically the complete opposite of what he said is true but again he wants to just he wants to focus the entire argument on falsifying the radius and again okay but show me the repeatable experiment because if you can falsify the radius with one of these line of sight radio transmissions or microwave transmissions that he's bringing up then why don't they show us that exact that exact experiment now I have a couple graphics radio wave propagation and I wanted to just at least show this so people know what he's bringing up can I argument that he's making can I ask a quick question here go for it and I don't want to change the subject so we can maybe go back to this but did I hear him say planes like aircraft no or is he talking about something about geometric plane like he's just talking about a flat because I was I was that that's my wheelhouse there with aviation and and there's an argument he's not made there but maybe if we have time at the end I wanted to say so you can see here this is what he's bringing up is this idea of radio wave propagation and so he's saying line of sight this is where the the radio waves are essentially just going as in a straight line yeah so at some point they would not work due to the curvature of the earth whereas there's other radio wave propagation such as signal propagation or wave propagation that really does bend or can be transmitted through a few different methods that do allow it to go beyond the curvature of the earth so you can kind of see that ground wave propagation the sky wave propagation and show if you can this other graphic the second one below that the radio wave propagation propagation so here's another example though too of like how radio waves can be transmitted notice sometimes they can bounce off of the earth they can bounce off of satellites they can bounce off the sky and be refracted and so you could still even receive these particular radio waves but if you really believed you had a line of sight radio wave transmission repeatable project why wouldn't you say look stand at this point stand at this other point we've measured the elevation we've measured the curvature anybody can go out there anybody can do this experiment because if they had done that or they could do that all flat earthers would point to that specific experiment so again he makes these claims but he doesn't have any specific example or any specific experiment where we can do what he's claiming so you know again it's not compelling when he literally just has no experiment that he's pointing out that we can all do and verify ourselves well that's appeal to authority right well it's it's not i guess he's the authority in that argument but sure it's it's just a it's what he calls or claimed i did was a baseless assertion um or a baseless claim because there's no evidence to support it um but he he brought up this idea that there's no such thing as an empirical evidence disproving a stationary plane well that's not true pull up this video and i want to play a couple snippets of it of the focal pendulum now there was a french physicist named leon focu and he actually wanted to demonstrate be careful with the pronunciation on that i i mean yeah i'm not french so no i just you could slip into saying something else yeah but okay well sure but anyways this specific video um is kind of explaining he created this pendulum that would show and demonstrate the curvature of the earth so let's play the first minute of this and we'll pause it and then i want to play the last part but it's gonna we all know earth is flat a round spinning sphere but how do we prove this french physicist leon fukou came up with a brilliant idea and built a large pendulum the point being that the ball will not only swing back and forth but rotate as well but why on earth would this prove earth is a spinning sphere to answer this question we need to first understand why the pendulum rotates let's place the pendulum on top of the north pole now imagine the ball bobbing back and forth while earth beneath it spins counterclockwise from this perspective the pendulum is fixed while earth rotates beneath it no mystery here but let's observe from the surface of the planet next to the pendulum from this perspective it's the pendulum that rotates while we perceive earth to be stationary furthermore the pendulum will be rotating clockwise once every 24 hours this effect will reverse itself if the pendulum is on top of the south pole so from over the south pole earth spins clockwise while the pendulum remains fixed but if you're standing on the surface it's the pendulum that spins specifically counterclockwise but what happens when we move the pendulum away from the poles we know we need to keep the pendulum fixed just as we did before at the poles but unlike when the pendulum was at the poles it's now being flung around earth's axis so it's a bit unclear what fixed looks like in this context for this we need the help of a visual aid first draw a circle all right you can pause it so i want to uh reiterate what was just explained here for a second essentially folk uh folk who was creating a pendulum which is just something going back and forth on a consistent plane and while it's going on this plane it's not going to necessarily be affected by the rotation of the earth so there's nothing going to cause it because it's attached at the top it's not going to rotate while the rest of the earth would potentially rotate so at the north pole specifically where you have the the maximum you know rotational effect here in a 24 hour period of time this pendulum will actually make a full rotation but the pendulum itself is not swinging or it's not rotating it's that the earth is rotating under it so it gives the appearance that the pendulum is actually rotating around but it's actually us that are rotating now if you do this experiment at the equator or near the equator it actually doesn't rotate at all there's no rotational effect whatsoever and then if you do it at the south pole again it's that 24 hour and then somewhere in between it just takes longer it's it's maybe about 30 hours or so that you kind of experience this effect well they actually have uh fuko's pendulums all over the world go if you would to the end part of this video i think timestamp around five minutes or five minutes and five seconds now he does he explains all the math on this and he does a really good job but then he kind of explains here at the very end kind of the conclusion go ahead and play this last 40 seconds the value of sine also gets closer to zero and the time needed for one rotation becomes infinitely long in other words it doesn't turn at all there are countless fuko pendulums all across the world usually one in every science museum and universities with a strong science department if earth wasn't a spinning sphere the relationship t equals 24 hours divided by sine theta would not predict the rotation of these many pendulums if they even turned at all but as it turns out every single pendulum around the world rotates exactly as fuko predicted they would if earth were around rotating globe all right that's how we know so here's the thing these pendulums are everywhere in the world and they explain the math of exactly how they they can calculate how long it would take for that pendulum to make a full rotation and they have one even specifically in antarctica and it's 24 hours they have ones at the equator which it's not rotating and they have ones in other places where it's taking anywhere from 32 hours or some other calculation proving this mathematical formula proving these pendulums are exactly what they're claiming and this is empirical evidence that the earth is rotating and that it is spinning it's empirical evidence he suggested there was zero empirical evidence okay what about fuko's pendulum i mean what do you have what do you say about this yeah i mean so basically it just seems that these predictions as far as the fuko's uh his his pendulum predictions there would be no way for them to be accurate whatsoever if we were living on a flat tard planet or something like that if we were living on a flat planet or the the earth wasn't spinning or anything like that so this is observable evidence that you can see with your very own eyes through these pendulums really interesting stuff yeah of course if you want to share your thoughts uh we we are taking callers it looks like we do have one caller um i want to see if we can bring frank on the line do we have frank with us hey pastor hey brother ben how you guys doing tonight good how are you so what'd you think of the uh debate the other night it was interesting and um and my comments on one of the um facebook pages uh very poor moderator uh i don't want to get too offensive there but he was not good in the least bit uh owen benjamin yeah no please don't ever have him as a moderator again well i think i think he did good like i think it's a mixed bag for me so obviously the start was a little rough and and i wish things had gone differently but like in general he still kind of allowed us both to have equal time and uh he kept it lively to say the least but uh well i i guess for me personally once once he once he said that comment about i'll make fun of your mother and then he said hey my mother's dead and he's like well the dead can't say to me he totally lost me yeah he did apologize for that later in the stream though so i i did hear that and that was good but i just thought like just that point you know it really put a bad taste in my mouth because that's not something you should ever do to anybody and that that for me just i completely um i completely just lost all respect for him at that point i just thought it was just a very very uncomfortable low blow and i could you know i would never want to have that happen again so my question was um and i might have another question if you have time if you don't mind go for my first question that i did i asked the call that i said to the call screener was um i believe it was in the uh topic of isaiah 40 22 and uh talking about like flat earth scriptures and stuff like that and i've noticed this with i've noticed this with a lot of other like say heretical positions they say well you got to go back to the greek you got to go back to the hebrew or go back to the originals um for for you or for brother ben why do they do that the king james is beautiful it's perfect it's inerrant what is this about you know saying you know disprove you guys or disprove a king james bible believing uh person say hey go back you got to go back to the greek you got to go back to the hebrew see in the original that says this i just want could i get your thoughts on that well i would just say that obviously if the bible meant something else then it would say something else you know we i believe we have a perfect translation in the king james bible and you know i i'm not gonna go so as far as to say that understanding the original hebrew greek doesn't potentially provide some value because i think it can and i think that comparing some verses in multiple languages can sometimes reveal maybe our lack of understanding of what uh english word definition is being used there but i'm not going to go to an like a completely different english word so that's kind of to me like a complete misnomer and i think that you know one of the arguments he brought up and we might get to this later in the stream but he brought up the idea of how well whoog which is the hebrew underlying word for circle in isaiah 40 verse 22 um they used that which means circle and they didn't use the word ball but i'm thinking like well duh they didn't use the word ball because the word in english is circle they didn't you know it's like okay there's a different hebrew word for the word ball sure but they didn't use ball they used circle so it's like we can use different english words it doesn't mean like oh well if the earth was a globe they would have used the word ball instead of the word circle but here's the thing you know ball doesn't fit there in my opinion and i showed in the miriam webster 1828 dictionary that the word circle could be referred to as an orb or the earth you know additionally you know the word circle could just be also maybe giving us more detail as far as just the crust and it's talking about maybe the outer layer of the sphere which is always a circle no matter what perspective you take and so you know i think the the reason the appeal to go to other languages is to try and totally like pull the wool over people's eyes and change the entire text like just put a completely different translation or um try to just change the words completely plus it's a guru thing we don't speak hebrew like 99 of people don't speak hebrew so there's no way to verify anything this person's saying so just like trust me i'm right or i know more and it's not a really there's no way to almost verify that claim for 99 of people so i think it's just a trick to try and like get away from what the text actually says i don't know if you have a thought here ben it's funny because you basically said what i was going to say i think it enables you to masquerade as a guru first of all second of all when you appeal to a language the audience doesn't speak or understand that also enables you to basically teach anything you want because you can make any claim and this claim cannot be verified by the audience they don't know if what you're saying is true because they just have to take your word for it given that they don't understand hebrew or greek now i'll offer this caveat i would say that and you also mentioned this i would say that there is value in understanding hebrew and greek in this area when it comes to bibliology or if you want to defend the textus receptus reading that's disputed by critical text advocates and people who want to attack the king james bible if you want to defend the reading in the king james in the old testament perhaps there are people out there who may claim there's a contradiction or a bad translation somewhere in the bible if you know hebrew and you can read the masoretic text if you know greek and you can read the received text of scripture hey there's value in that but the problem is bad people who don't even speak the languages appeal to those languages to then make the bible say whatever they want it to say yeah did you have a follow-up there frank well i had a second question it's not something different in terms of his flat earth argument and i'm not a science guru by any stretchy imagination but on a flat earth with the so-called dome like if we take like the super dome from new orleans and from what i gather um flat earth people believe like the sun and moon are revolving around i mean in different areas well with climate take you know i live in maine ben you've lived in florida our climate is different so when the earth is so how could the climate be different in maine and florida in the winter months if if the sun and the moon are spinning you know on opposite sides at the same time how could there be different climate and again i'm no scientific guru but if you could how could a flat earther say you know the earth definitely is flat and all this and he was making some very like he was using some some intense verbiage that i i was understanding but it was just like how can how can our climates whether it's in maine to florida or alaska to hawaii or anywhere from north to south be so radically different at different times right if the moon and the sun are revolving around in opposite you know opposite at the same time yeah he didn't provide a good explanation for that because he was asked that question he brought up tangential velocity which totally has nothing to do with seasonality and i'm gonna i'm gonna actually address that here a little bit later so it's a great question um but i'm gonna defer because i'm gonna get to that question a little bit later and i want to make sure that uh we explain it then but thanks so much for calling in brother frank thank you take care have a good night thanks frank so if you want to call in you can call in two three one baptist we'll be taking calls throughout the show if you want to give your thoughts on the show um i want to go to one other clip here because going back to what we were bringing up i'm bringing up the i'm kind of going against his claim of saying there's no empirical evidence okay well here's the thing even if i provided many of these individuals flat earthers with empirical evidence they will flat out deny it literally just deny it straight on the face i personally believe i took a flat earther in a space rocket into space and he looked out the window and saw the sphere and of course people get mad about that the oblate spheroid okay obviously it's not a perfect sphere i get it but if they saw the curvature of the earth they would literally say with cgi or a fake window or like that i'm just making things up or they were on drugs like they would just deny it flat out and further evidence of this there's a video i want to play this video here in just a second but this is from a documentary it's called behind the curve it's like a netflix specific documentary it was someone interviewing a bunch of flat earthers and asking their opinion and their evidences well this specific individual is going to demonstrate and talk about how they bought a gyroscope they spent twenty thousand dollars on buying a gyroscope to prove that the earth was not moving and they literally proved that the earth was moving let's go ahead and play this clip an experiment to test the rotation to the earth if the earth is spinning at one rotation every 24 hours that means that every hour it has to turn 15 degrees and if a gyroscope is mounted anywhere on earth it's going to drift in today's 21st century navigation systems they're using what's called a ring laser gyroscope it's extremely precise if we could simply get one of these ring laser gyroscopes we would be able to prove once and for all that there is no rotation to the earth one of the people in the community actually purchased one for twenty thousand dollars you start at point a and then you do it some kind of process collecting evidence of thinking or whatever you want and you end up at a conclusion point b that you believe is true okay science is the arrow that's all science is the arrow science is a process to get to conclusions but what we found is is when we turned on that gyroscope we found that we were picking up a drift a 15 degree per hour drift now obviously we were taken aback by that wow that's kind of a problem right a little bit of you start at the conclusion and you say you have to find evidence that shows that this is true you're not looking for data to try to prove you wrong or refine your position right you're trying to look for all the data that proves you right you'll cherry-pick until you find evidence that appears to be an arrow a logical arrow to your dogma we obviously were not willing to accept that and so we started looking for ways to disprove that it was actually registering the motion of the earth and that in fact was registering the motion of the sky so the next thing that we set out to do was to encase the fiber optic gyro in what's called a zero cost chamber to see if we could actually shield the energies being generated by the heaven and we were unsuccessful with that unfortunately so the next thing that we're going to try is encasing the entire apparatus in bismuth if anything works well i'd like to release it at the conference if there's not anything that you can say anything are you can pause it i guess i'm wrong so just just to make it clear this guy somehow someone paid twenty thousand dollars in their community to buy this gyroscope and the theory is if the earth is rotating at the rate that we assume it would take 15 degrees of change to this gyroscope in one hour time period and then they did this test and they got exactly 15 degrees like expected and he's like oh we were taken aback and then he said i'm not willing to accept it did you did you hear that i guess he said he was not willing to accept it that is what stuck out the most to me and and that is what these people are like they're just not willing to accept empirical evidence and then they'll make these claims there's zero empirical evidence that disproves our theory except for Foucault's pendulum except for gyroscope and you know who came up with the gyroscope Foucault leon Foucault he also proved both of them so the these flat earthers must really hate this french physicist and of course you know they really can't go on the jew connection or the jesuit connection because he brought up it was jesuits that were somehow bringing us this globe theory well i would love to find out how leon Foucault is a jesuit priest jew free mason knight of the templar japanese he's japanese i mean it's just so funny that there's plenty of empirical evidence i'm just pointing to a few yeah because i want to make it clear when they make this claim there's no empirical evidence here's multiple that i'm i'm demonstrating in fact here's flat earthers proving flat earthers wrong and they still can't even accept it i mean what do you have to say about that when he made the statement we were not quote not willing to accept that tells you everything you need to know about the mentality which is this they have a conclusion and they are going to cling to that conclusion no matter what reality says and it's a conclusion in search of evidence not evidence that's leading them to a conclusion right they're married emotionally for whatever reason to the dumbest cosmology i have ever heard in my life and no matter what you show them if it conflicts with what they already believe we are not willing to accept that wow well and i i want to make it clear though because while this is just reality denying mind-numbing stuff there's a lot of people who believe dumb things and i actually have this in my opening statement but again i was i didn't want to get the ad homihorn blown at me every five seconds so i kind of left it out but specifically i wanted to bring up the idea that look a lot of people are atheists and they believe nothing exploded and created everything the big bang theory that's completely retarded or there's people that believe that we descended from apes and chickens from dinosaurs that's ridiculous joe biden got 81 million votes that's ridiculous building seven filled due to office fires i mean can you imagine showing someone building seven falling in seven seconds flat and them saying like oh that was due to office fires like you're just like wow that's just denying reality they admitted that they pulled the building or people saying that the modern day jews are god's chosen people i mean that's just a form of reality denial that's mind-numbing today when you show people that supposedly are christians that have a bible and you can show them the new testament and then they just still believe the synagogue of satan are god's chosen people or two plus two equals four is racist or men are women or the covet 19 shot prevents people from getting covet or how about just other religions hindus worshiping statues muslims following an illiterate pedophile who married a six-year-old mormons wear special underwear hope to have endless spirit babies and visit the planet collab and then catholics they believe that they're literally eating the physical body of jesus and drinking his blood so i just want to put it in perspective this is not the only dumb thing that people believe and hold dogmatically against all reasoning science logic truth whatsoever i i think what it kind of just illustrates is that when someone's unsaved especially that the devil can deceive them into believing some really idiotic things um to me it's almost like a punishment again that god's punishing people for being gullible and stupid and rejecting the gospel and rejecting the truth and because they're blind they can fall victim to a lot of really dumb ideas i mean what do you don't you kind of at least see how there's a lot of other dumb ideas that people subscribe to beyond just the flat earth yeah there's tons of really stupid false religions out there political ideologies out there and part of it i believe is that an individual who does not have the holy spirit is not being guided into all truth that's part of it but you're right there's a lot of really stupid crap out there well and again like the bible says the fool hath said in his heart there is no god so when god uses a bible verse to describe this he's calling them names he's calling them fools simple brute beast there's a lot of insulting language in the bible but it's not left as an insult it provides explanation as well and that's what i wanted to do in this dream i wasn't going to just sit here and just say y'all are dumb this is stupid you're retarded i wanted to explain why that is so but i think that using insulting language is not just merely an ad hominem and in fact most ad hominem attacks are really where you're assaulting the person's character not their argument so if i say your argument's dumb because of this that's not really an ad hominem attack ad hominem attacks are where you say this person's a jew therefore everything they say is wrong that's an ad hominem attack which they actually did against einstein and a lot of other individuals they're kind of just assaulting their character who they are as opposed to their ideas or their viewpoints um i want to i want to go to the next section of this video but before we do i think we have another caller from the promised land where do you think that is i'm going to assume you since you said it texas of course i believe we have simian from texas let's see if we can bring him on the line hey simony how's it going how are you guys doing great how are you good doing great i'm actually on my way home from the uh stronghold baptist church camping trip how did that go out to uh after burzins that was awesome yeah i really disappointed i didn't go this year because it's always been a great trip highly recommend stronghold baptist church out in the atlanta area with pastor david burzins check out his church um did you get to see some of the live stream or the debate already i did i've watched the whole thing uh we i think it was uh after one of the services and so i was about five minutes late i came in with owen just railing off and uh i was like i i didn't know either either one of the people so i was like man this guy's uh i thought he was the guy you were debating i had no idea he was the moderator until halfway through his rant well i could see how it maybe was confusing at first but uh the show finally picked up what'd you think about the actual debate itself uh it was something i did see your post on instagram actually uh reposted that video you made or someone made on your account uh on tiktok because and i even commented i said this video was worth that debate yeah are you talking about the one i wonder if we can find it maybe maybe have a practice you can find it it's the uh video where he's saying there's no stars from space and uh we have like the iss just literally showing all kinds of in fact there's it's not just one video the the video clip that we even put up was actually multiple videos and then i even found more beyond that where we can see stars from satellites and from some of our space um stations and things like that so it was just kind of funny i was trying to get him to make a really strong statement there because i knew i could prove it wrong later but um it was kind of funny that he said that do you have a do you have a question or anything you wanted to ask us yes sir sorry for going off topic uh you're good the uh the uh question i had i i don't i have never looked this up so i'm not sure there might be just a simple answer to it but i was sitting here thinking while i was listening and uh i was thinking about the they have experiments below the equator or on the equator line really where the water it flows down drains clockwise above the equator and counterclockwise below the equator and i was wondering if you knew how flat earthers explain that away yeah i'm i don't even know what their argument is because it's such a good point and it kind of appeals to um some other similar arguments that you know we we brought up um regarding the star trails or you can also observe this with hurricanes hurricanes actually go clockwise and counterclockwise above and below the equator and so i think that they would just be a word salad explanation i don't think that they have a legitimate explanation for that one um but that's a great question i want to address that later in in this video so um we're gonna get to that specifically and i want to focus on the star trail part of that because it's such a great point and it is an interesting phenomenon and this is something that can be tested like you can go to new zealand australia anywhere and you'll see the water going down the drain in the opposite direction as it would above the equator and so that's experiments people could could do at home let's go ahead and play thanks for calling in simian have a good night yeah let's go ahead and play our video some more i want to play at about the 29 minute mark where whitson is providing his rebuttal to my opening statement so we're just kind of focusing on his uh his talking points again i brought up um a few different arguments specifically the star trail was like the stars being upside down that was my first argument and then i brought up the sun rising in the east and setting in the west and i brought up videos and he didn't address that but here here was his response to my opening statement go ahead three minutes okay yes so on the the scriptural thing i mean you obviously brought up isaiah 40 22 and that circle is specifically different word in hebrew than he uses just before that which is a different word for ball so he specifically doesn't call ball and i actually have heard seen a video of you and i didn't look too much into it but you said uh i hear a bunch of people say hebrew cosmology and you said yeah well the jews are wrong about everything well um you know the messiah was a jew i guess right i think he would have probably said hey you guys got those first he's making well well number one okay they didn't use the word ball do they have to use the word ball for it to be a sphere or to be a oblate spheroid i mean specifically the like i had brought up you can look at the duet reams english translation which is coming from the latin vulgate it says the globe of the earth and if you look at the spanish the 1602 perfectada it says a global de la tierra and again almost every other version at that time just says circle the hebrew says circle so i think circle is the right word there i'm not trying to say that circle isn't the right but i think that some people just can't understand how the circle is not talking about a two dimensional object it's talking about a three-dimensional object and he's going to bring up later the idea of a quarter but you know it them not using the word ball has no bearing on if this is bringing up a sphere additionally when i brought up the idea of jews being wrong about everything that was in the context of religious worshipers of judaism talmudic judaism jesus christ was not an observer of talmudic judaism yeah he was a descendant of the tribe of juda but the word jew can have multiple definitions and again this is where flat earthers usually fail is they don't account for alternative definitions or explanations of words so they'll claim oh jesus was a jew yeah he was from the tribe of juda but he wasn't a practicer of judaism totally different group of people that we're talking about here because if you really take my statement on service i'm saying they're wrong about everything i would be saying that jesus is wrong about everything i mean how blasphemous would that be if i said such a thing i'm talking about judaism is wrong about everything and that religion is a false religion yes it's not you were referring in context to judaism yeah but they don't care about context so go ahead and keep playing this clip part of the book wrong so that's a wild argument to me it obviously says it's immovable and fixed it's it's you have to claim that the scriptures uh creation description is not literal but uh i can prove that the scripture is literally correct outside of it right and so i find that part um very interesting true doesn't fear investigation and that's what makes it so fascinating um and so we just can cover quickly the stuff you got wrong you said that they discovered that the speed the speed of light was constant uh no that's not correct he assumed that it was because it had to be along with time dilation and length contraction in fact it's been proven not to be there's anisotropic signal propagation all right pause it again yes you brought up satellites so i guess because i want to make sure that we're you know catching his word salad number one he's claiming that we don't believe the bible literally i think that's pretty fascinating i would love to test his his theory on that to see how literal he believes the bible he says later that he doesn't even appeal to any english translation as he uses the scripture versions so does he take when it says that we shouldn't add or remove from god's word does he take that literally he does not take that script does he take every word of god as being necessary for our daily life literally i would like to know does he take leviticus 2013 literally you know let's see how literal he is but yeah of course genesis one's literal history that was a false argument he says that the speed of light is not a constant it's been proven false and then he brings up this idea of anisotropic signal propagation in satellites so of course every person's heard of that right every person is very familiar with what he's bringing up but i was joking okay that was it's silly i have to look that up myself too but anisotropic is contrasted with the idea of something being isotropic or isotropic and specifically when we talk about isotropic it's talking about something traveling through a substance or a medium and that specific substance or medium has no change or alteration to the velocity or acceleration of that particular property so it's basically just saying that it has no effect that specific item is not going to cause light or waves to go through it at a different speed it's just going to go through it no matter what the same type of speed whereas anisotropic is saying based on the specific direction of this item it could actually alter the speed or the way that it travels through it so it's basically just saying like things traveling through metal or talking about water they're isotropic whereas anisotropic is talking about like specific pieces of wood or other substances where the depending on the direction or how it's entering that particular item it may alter how it travels so so essentially what they're saying or what they're trying to bring up ice is another one that's anisotropic but basically that light could potentially slow down depending on what medium it's traveling through and then somehow he's using that as a falsification of the speed of light being a constant but again that's a false argument because the speed of light is considered a constant in a vacuum which is we're not bringing up these the mediums that we're traveling through the vacuum is saying there is no medium and that the speed of light is consistent within a vacuum and he's constantly referring to the michelson morley experiment which uses a quote interferometer and this is like having light pass through two different pathways and they're assuming that if the earth was moving that that would potentially add to the speed of light like whatever you say the speed of light is which according to you know current science it's 186 000 186 000 miles per second and so you would add plus whatever the rotation of the earth is or the speed of the earth or to that particular number but according to modern scientific theory the speed of light maxes out at 186 000 miles per second and that no matter what uh you know no matter what it's basically just going to get to that point now of course you could slow it down depending on what medium it's traveling through so it's traveling through some other uh you know substance it could potentially slow down and he's bringing this up but again that that does not prove that the earth is flat that doesn't prove that the earth is not um spinning it doesn't prove that we're not orbiting the sun like literally nothing but he he needs the speed of light to not be constant because then this experiment by michelson and morley in his mind would somehow prove that the earth is not moving so let's ignore focubes pendulum let's ignore the gyroscopic arguments and the star trails that we'll bring up here in a minute and we're going to claim that anisotropic signal propagation and satellites proves the speed of light is not a constant that that was his argument but again it's not like people aren't aware of these things they brought up these experiments why are they not saying the speed of light is now not a constant anymore and einstein's been disproven i mean did you kind of understand what i just explained there a little bit yeah the speed of light is a constant in a vacuum that's what you meant when you made the statement and the argument that no it's not because in a specific sub within a specific medium or substance its speed would change is not consistent with what you're referring to it's almost taking you out of context it's kind of like oh jesus was a jew what does that mean though well it means he was of the tribe of juda the speed of light is constant what do you mean by that well it's constant at a vacuum well and when michaelson morley were doing their experiment they don't have like one part of their experiment is in a vacuum and the other parts in this anisotropic state or medium that it's passing through so therefore you know we could observe this variance it's like they're they're doing the exact same experiment the exact same area with the exact same medium so it's it's not going to show that particular result that he's even bringing up so it's just again it's just using fancy language that doesn't explain the issue whatsoever and just kind of hides behind the fact that there is no explanation but let's let's keep playing this clip i just wanted to pause on that point to explain this word salad and get into it but satellites into no way prove the earth's a globe they actually use ellipses over a plane with a change of velocity relative to the center of the coordinate system and real inertial forces of a rotating universe which are geocentric physics in their equations it actually is evidence for geocentrism of satellites are up above us you said that michaelson morally just failed to detect the ether that's just patently incorrect it was the relative motion of the earth in the ether what they were trying to detect was literally the motion of the earth at 30 kilometers per second through an ether they didn't they threw the ether out they then said that time slowed down that the measuring apparatus contracted to deceive them into thinking that the earth was stationary you say we just say that we see too far uh well yeah there's physical limits to living on a sphere and it doesn't comport to what we see and we've seen hundreds of miles where there should be literally three four or five vertical miles blocking what we see and so you're gonna have to verify the claim that it's all an illusion so i'll just reiterate the point again you you have the burning fruit of substantiate these claims you basically just use a baseless assertion fallacy over and over and then you kind of appeal to consensus and then you use a bunch of stereotype fallacies and poisoning the well fallacies and then reification fallacies and affirming the consequent fallacies and uh none of that is is obviously going to cut it logically so we'll have to we'll have to get more into actual evidence all right you can pause it that was a lot of fallacies that was like the funniest part for me of the whole show is when he goes on this rant about all these fallacies but he made the claim that we can see hundreds of miles folks hundreds of miles that would be like a scene from here in dallas fort worth area into houston i can see pure words from here yeah uh we can see like i've been in the reunion tower and in the reunion tower you can see like you're really high up and in fact dallas fort worth area is about 750 feet above sea level whereas houston's you know i think it's only like 50 or 100 don't quote me but it's it's much closer to the sea level obviously so it's way further down so if i'm in reunion tower which there would be no nothing obstructing my view how could i not just see straight to houston where's these hundreds of miles that he's claiming that we can potentially see plus show us that experiment just say like hey if you stand at this point and you look in this direction you can see hundreds of miles hundreds literally here's a here's a video that i took or are found of reunion tower and this is another point that i wanted to bring up but they always talk about how it looks flat and feels flat and so you know they have we have the burden of proof but just think if you go into reunion tower it's actually a restaurant that spins so while you're in the restaurant eating you're actually spinning you're getting to see different parts of the city skyline here i don't know how i haven't been to that yet it's really cool you should check it out it's it's an expensive steakhouse but it's kind of a cool that is why it's a cool experience but here's the thing while you're in the restaurant you don't feel like you're spinning sure okay so that but you still are though you just can't feel it yeah oh i guess when you go to this restaurant there's a secret restaurant ben when you go to it all of dallas fort worth will spin around you while you eat your meal that's what's actually happening yeah that's what's and in fact if anybody tries to tell you otherwise you know they're just a nasa simp you know they're just basically just they're going along with their azion federal yeah you are a zionist i'm a zionist i don't think that anybody's claiming i'm a zionist but go to 30 the 39 minute mark i am so so far i mean wits it's been really compelling right i mean just all of these great proofs well hey he he knows his big he knows his logical fallacies folks oh yeah because he hasn't made any baseless assertions i mean you could google logical fallacies for 30 seconds and memorize them and then mindlessly rattle them off and claim that your opponent is guilty of them all day long it doesn't win you an argument and it certainly doesn't prove that your opponent is saying something that isn't true well i think this is what's funny he's he accused me of making a baseless assertion okay we've seen hundreds of miles was that not a baseless assertion where's the evidence where's the proof of that that's a good point i mean where's the uh where's that sounds like a baseless assertion to me okay well now again we're just kind of skipping around a little bit and i'm going to his specific point i brought up isaiah 40 verse 22 again and then this is his response at around the 39 minute mark let's go ahead and play that yeah can there's somebody can somebody be a circle and not a sphere in a two-dimensional world of course a circle do we have quarters in the real three-dimensional world that's not a sphere and it's not it's not a circle it's not a circle it's a disc so there's a difference all right go ahead and stop it okay trade selector in the chat says that the tower doesn't spin anymore just fyi they don't spin i don't i want to fact check that okay we need to fact check that it doesn't spin anymore we need to call them and tell them that they need to start get that thing spinning again so we can disprove some so i i i know that they changed like it used to have an older restaurant and now it's like a new restaurant so we need to call them up i just wanted to get that in there before we spin moved on spin well i've i've been in it when it's it's spun before in the past but that's sad if you can't do it anymore i guess you'd have to just believe me but here but you know whatever but just how about a cylinder have you ever heard of a cylinder ben i'm familiar with this is a cylinder a circle it's a cylinder it's a circular you can argue the top is a circle if you look at it from just the top viewpoint but again it's not accurate to call it a circle it's a cylinder because we live in a three dimensional world this it doesn't matter what this it doesn't matter what looks like a circle it's always a circle that's why when the bible says circle the earth that's perfectly accurate because it looks like a circle when you look at it from any perspective any angle from any perspective just the face of the earth does look like a circle now does a quarter always look like a circle not if you looked at the edge not if you look at any perspective other than a top down top down exactly there's literally only one perspective where it looks like a circle in any but here it always does exactly right look at one plus one is two right easy stuff it's it's silly because here's the thing at what perspective is that not a circle no perspective it's always it doesn't matter what perspective whereas from their perspective if it's a flat disc it's it's not a circle from almost every perspective so it goes like it's just ridiculous it's always a circle if it's a sphere no matter what angle or perspective you look at it whereas with the flat earth if i'm looking at it on the edge or something like that it no longer looks like a circle all right so let's go to the 40 minute mark 40 55 second mark and i want to i want to play another uh thing that he brought up here and we're just kind of walking through we're just you know quarters folks that's what the bible said when you know he said it upon the quarter of the earth the quarter yeah go ahead and play the uh the clip when you get it eritosthenes who apparently calculated the size of the earth on the orb okay so those are the points that need to be addressed and you have two minutes yeah so the the southern star trails for one obviously the direction is not a problem at all it's just merely perspective if you look south they look like they're going the other way they're all just rotating one way every star in the sky goes east to west right so clockwise counterclockwise relative receptive directions um we have to stop here for a second he's saying that the star trails change their perspective just based on you just changing your direction so i i want to i want to pause on this point because this is a really important point and it was actually brought up even later in the show and he said you know a bunch of nonsense on that as well but i want to pull up uh some of the graphics that we have let me see if i can find um yeah that's that's the graphic that i want so here's the thing this is star trails are and you've got you've got this globe here so if you're on the top of the globe at the north pole and you're looking up you will see the stars going counterclockwise as the earth rotates so if you take a photograph where it's basically like a long lapse time you'll slowly see the stars moving in a pattern and it makes a circular pattern that's counterclockwise which is shown there if you're at the equator the stars are going in a straight line and then if you look at the southern if you're at the south pole or the southern hemisphere you'll notice that they're going clockwise this is literally impossible on their flat earth map it just it just proves them wrong instantly and i wanted to help people kind of understand this point and it might seem silly but i think it just kind of helps you recognize what we're doing but if you just take your finger and i know this is probably difficult for flat earthers but if you take a finger and you go above your head and you just slowly spin help help me with men okay just slowly spin clockwise okay and you just look up you can see it's going clockwise right you can see your finger going clockwise right now see if you can just bring your hand down but keep keep the same rotation just keep rotating and go to where it's underneath and now you can look at it is it still going clockwise or is it going out going counter now it's going counterclockwise counter now just keep the same motion if you just keep the same motion but then you go up then you'll notice something clockwise again it's clockwise again why because that is how perspective actually works that if you're standing on the south pole specifically looking up you'll see it going clockwise whereas if you're standing on the north pole it'll actually be going counterclockwise and i would love for i would love for um austin to demonstrate for us i would love for him to put a clock on the ceiling and use a camera and show us how he can stand in two different positions in the room and the clock magically starts going backwards because that's what he literally claimed he literally just claimed that the southern the southern star trail is going in a different direction counterclockwise it's just merely perspective so he's claiming you can somehow observe something going clockwise and if you just well if you just stand over here now so it's magically not going clockwise the stars in the sky will change directions if you change positions yes that's what he claimed literally which defies perspective reality and just everything he says oh the stars are going from east to west okay but he literally all manning him everything's a straw man did what did you think about my simple hand illustration did you follow it it's easy enough that anybody could do it at home whenever they want to try it at home right now and again this goes to the point that some of our callers brought up earlier of the same thing if you're on the if you're on the northern hemisphere the water will drain in a specific direction orientation and then when you're on the southern hemisphere it actually drains in the opposite direction the exact same phenomenon that is explained to you so it's going down clockwise and then counterclockwise so are um hurricanes hurricanes are spinning in a specific orientation and then they spin the opposite orientation below the equator again and of course at the equator it's a straight line because that's that's you doing your finger like this you didn't notice it going clockwise or counterclockwise did you it doesn't it because your perspective is just going in a straight line that's what you see here at the equator where you have the straight lines of that particular um yeah this is even better illustration that kind of shows you how when you stand on the globe on the circle of the earth that you actually see these different patterns of the star trails it it's just a problem that Flat Earthers can't explain but then he just says oh it's just perspective perspective ben just yeah i mean perspective i don't what else is there to say i mean this is Flat Earthers will just ignore this specific point completely they just they just don't like this point because frankly it just it demolishes them it does it looks like we got another caller here again you can call in 231 Baptist we're taking some calls we've got somebody from upstate robert is on the line hey robert how's it going hey how's it going good how are you good so what do you think of the show uh i thought it was great uh it was a little annoying with all the interruptions but other than that i i think uh pastor shelly did a good job thank you what they you see they didn't convince you that there is flat or what i i think the flat earth is probably one of the stupidest theories there is but you know uh i just find it interesting that you can literally see other planets from a telescope without the help of nasa and uh they're all spheres so you know it just flies in the face of the stupidity that you know every other planet's a sphere except you know according to them earth yeah again they say well that doesn't prove the earth's a sphere but it's kind of it's kind of strange yeah it'd be kind of strange if every other heavenly body was a sphere you know with the exception of of here right right exactly did you have any uh questions or any um thing you wanted us to cover uh not really that was like the only thing i kind of just popped into my head during the during the show but yeah no uh i actually go to uh bible believers baptist church in yakima pastor thompson's the pastor there so oh yeah great shout out to shout out to pastor thompson yeah for sure uh but i'm watching the show live right now so well thanks so much for tuning in and uh giving us your thoughts of course if any of you just want to share your thoughts it's more than welcome on the show um thanks again robert for calling in and watching the show hey i i'd like them to be consistent where's the flat sun theory flat moon flat mars flat neptune all of it let's see it i guess they don't even believe space exists though so yeah i don't know exactly what their view is on that it's some of them don't at least right yeah i don't know so it's like that's a safe statement to make i know everything every word that we say is a straw man right whatever fallacy anyway well go ahead let's go ahead and let's go ahead and play a little bit more i want to go to another section let's jump to 43 minutes and 30 seconds this is where um owen was asking specifically austin about how there's longer days there's summer just the seasonality aspect and the south pole which great questions i was going to bring him up if he didn't but let's go ahead and play uh austin's response here in the winter in the very short days in the um in our summer yeah so it's it's the same it's the same way that the globe explains how the earth spins faster at the equator than at a northern or southern latitude so you have tangential velocity and angular velocity meaning it can continue to go to angular velocity but go faster okay so the questions about how we have longer days in the summer and shorter days in the winter and he just brought up tangential velocity which again i don't expect anybody to know what that means i myself wanted to verify what that meant um before i i talked about it but tangential velocity is essentially the idea that if something is rotating or spinning especially a circle that when you're closer to the edge you're going to have more force on you to be thrown off in a specific tangent okay in a specific line so really what you can do is you can experience this from a merry-go-round if you're on a merry-go-round if you're in the center of the merry-go-round there's less force causing you to spin off or to be shot off of that particular merry-go-round whereas if you're on the edge you're going to feel that force the strongest as far as that force trying to shoot you off of that particular merry-go-round you've got a merry-go-round right do they have them in the middle east i don't know it's probably just saying i've been on it many times okay and yes i know what you're talking about you feel like you're gonna get fling flung off when you're but isn't it true that when you get closer to the edge or as you're closer to the edge you feel that force is a little bit stronger more pronounced yes that's tangential velocity that's what we're bringing up okay how in the world does that explain longer summer days it allows you to sound smart and make dumb people think that you're winning the debate because you used big words that don't apply to the actual question okay let me ask another question if the earth is not spinning what tangential velocity is even why would you bother bringing that up when you don't believe that it's first of all that it's a spear and second of all that it's spinning okay so i am losing brain cells right now and i'm not even in the debate i wasn't in it so it's hard to know what he was trying to bring up let's let's help him make his argument maybe he's bringing up the sun like you know if we had a flat earth and he's talking about the way that the sun's traveling around this flat disc or whatever that maybe it's experiencing tangential velocity even if that's true let's just claim that that was true what's causing the ebb and flow of that tangential velocity then because as you get closer to the edge you have more force causing you to spin off so what would cause it to come back again this isn't explaining anything it's just using words talking about scientific facts that are just unrelated they're just unrelated facts that don't explain anything whatsoever go ahead and just keep playing so he can continue word salad so in the south it would have to be speeding up like in tangential speed tangential velocity but it could just maintain the same angular speed it'll give you a longer day because the sun is going to be over a portion of it longer and then as to and this this ties in the end of that answer also ties into the next question you asked which is like say the 24-hour sun well we don't actually see the 24-hour sun itself right they doctor footage so but we see the daylight um and the daylight is hasn't replicated also with a dome if you have a dome like the scriptures blatantly say with the firmament it will actually reflect around in something called the coffee cup caustic and it reflects around the entire brim of a dome so the 24-hour sunlight is not a problem for the plain earth the 24-hour sun would be and uh they passed around this footage of supposedly 24-hour sun for two years and we found out that they faked it they came out and admitted that it was fake so uh both of those questions if they're all right all right go ahead and stop it yeah he's actually asked this later and he says that he faked it in another place um in this document i have two youtube videos it's actually near the one hour and one minute section because he brought this up again but i want to just go to it now he's claiming that the footage of a 24-hour sun in antarctica is fake i was gonna ask you to respond to that claim and you're doing it now so perfect and again he says he said this they admitted that they faked it another baseless assertion i would love for him to show the evidence that they admitted that they faked it now i think that potentially what he's referring to is is this that when they had filmed this um loop it had nothing to do with proving the earth was a sphere it was actually just a guy that's in antarctica just doing a documentary talking about antarctica but he just decided to tell like show everybody the 24-hour sun because he just thought it was cool so he literally has a 360 camera view where it goes and rotates with the sun and you see the sun loop all the way around i think they claim that at the end of this video like at the very end instead of just having it kind of stop they took the beginning like few seconds and they looped it so it makes like oh like a little bit more than a 360 view do you understand what i'm saying basically i think so but like even if that was true that what about the 360 person you know 360 view before that like oh they faked the last little bit of this okay what about the whole rest of it yeah like so because it couldn't even go it couldn't even go to 15 16 hours but you're you're mad that after the 24-hour mark they might have taken the beginning and attached it on just to kind of show a little bit more even if that were true it still debunks the flat earth model it does because of everything that occurred before that supposed edit now here's here's another go ahead and start playing the video we don't need the audio because there is no audio just you can just play it so here's the video and this is the guy again this is a documentary this guy made um talking about antarctica and just experiencing like different things in antarctica well not to mention we have a friend and a church member who lived in alaska for a while and could talk about some of this yeah again in alaska also experiences some longer daylight seasons during their summer period because again if if you're tilted like this whenever they're on you know one particular portion of the orbit of the sun they're going to get 24-hour daylight yep and we see the phenomenon on video now yeah we're this is the video that they quote faked that they admitted that they quote faked it i would love to see the evidence of this guy coming out and saying yeah i just completely i know i made a whole document about antarctica but i just decided just fake this randomly well maybe because it's a time lapse it's faked that way he should have just left it for made like a year-long video or something a year-long video yeah there's only four months of sunlight that it's like this where it's like a 24-hour period but i think okay so we're basically approaching somewhere here they're claiming that they they looped the beginning again like over top of this like that was like oh that was like a reason that they looped that little bit just that last few seconds or something they looped it so the whole video is fake now here's another video and this one's interesting notice the shadow the only way to tell you can you can see the shadow on the bench yes see how it's slowly turning when you watch this video you'll notice it go all the way around and then come back to basically that starting position you can now see you couldn't see the shadow on this weird statue thing or whatever this weird monument pagan yeah this monument someone's gonna be like oh now you're appealing to false religion or someone's gonna be like oh now you're appealing to false religion or something yeah but essentially here you have another 24-hour loop video and again i'm not i'm using gloop loosely here i'm just saying like there one more time how long does the sun stay in the sky like how long was their daylight four straight months okay just want to make sure we hammer that in again if you're like really really close to the south pole or the north pole obviously when you're not that made a perfect look go there's some graphics that we have four straight months of sunlight and i want to help explain that's what the video claimed and you know makes sense go if you would to graphic 31 i think that it'll help explain um it's from we just need a video that lasts for a bigger document yeah yeah that's exactly it okay so notice do you see here on the left side cut on your side how the north pole is getting all daylight so it doesn't matter how much this would be kind of the the view again it's just spinning it's getting daylight all day and then notice in the winter season which is december but it's their summer this is when it's on the other side of the sun notice how the south pole is getting daylight 24 hours and this is what is observed and austin wits it even admitted multiple times in this debate that if you were in the south pole if you were in antarctica and you saw a 24-hour sun it would immediately debunk his claims so then he has to say that every video is fake that was two videos there's can we just get him there somehow why doesn't he see it himself then well again this is where we go back to the guy that had the gyro so he would say like the sky itself they probably no they probably like put him in like have you seen the truman show no but you preached against it so it's like this fake it's this fake environment yeah that they took they bring him into it's not a real world right they would like say that they took him to a special that's indoor pod that wasn't even really outdoors and tricked him into thinking that it was the south pole and when he observed the sunlight it wasn't even the sun it was just like this inside pod and he's like on the truman show and like it's all fake like you couldn't prove these people that the earth is a sphere no matter what i'm convinced like it just it's a dogma that they can't i challenge him fly your rear end down to or up to one of the poles and see it to the south pole go to the south pole see it for yourself exactly all right let's go ahead and play um the 59 minute of the video because he's going to bring up the antarctica stuff again i i just want to i just want to hear it we see the phenomenon in either the north or the south depending on the time of year yeah see if we can play the 59 minute mark of the debate and uh we'll hear him bring up what he thinks about this antarctica stuff that we brought up let's get the response and again like ladder in new zealand or some of these other countries you can still see these long daylight cycles so are all the videos from new zealand fake to zealand itself is fake yeah go ahead and play go ahead and play whenever you get circled antarctica they took a voyage from the southern tip of south africa and they circled the entire antarctica and then sailed down into they circled it or did they orbit did they orbit i'm just gonna go ahead they circled it and so uh specifically there's pictures video there's all the different information about that specific event so again all all their side's gonna say is that this is just fake everything's fake everybody's an actor all of its cgi all but it's just like there's so many people that are physically approving their claims there's a guy who doesn't have any end with this debate see if we can literally pull up now link 45 or graphic 46 i also brought up when it comes to this antarctica aspect is this specific um sailing adventure there's a specific group that took a yacht and they literally circled and again obviously that's not even a circle okay they did a roundabout of antarctica but how do you do this if it's a freaking ice wall you can't exactly i mean you're done already and then he's just saying he's it's done basically he said no no no these people were like confused and they actually went around the flat map and so even though you would know that antarctica was inside of you like inside your ship the whole time they were tricked and it's actually on the outside of them and they just went around this ice wall the whole time and you know it's just like everybody's a liar right show the picture uh graphic 47 of the people of all these people that were on this specific um journey they're all liars ben every single one of nash's shields they're probably cgi ai people it's all fake um we even have the video of it they circumnavigated go to video 48 well that that would be the right term correct they circumnavigated uh the south pole anisotropic perspective of tangential velocity they're using the tangential flux capacitor of the accelerated of the factor of parallax so here's a here's like a video that's even about their specific journey and i can't remember it's pretty it's pretty soon in the video they're gonna have um yeah here we go this is them explaining their journey look they left south africa and they went around it wow what a concept they went around it which is a dangerous journey as you could see yes and then they landed here in australia specifically in perth so here's a group that sailed like are they all actors is it fake were they confused like is everybody in on the conspiracy theory so think about this though i i know i brought this up to you in private okay let's pretend the earth's flat for a second right they are confused right now thinking they're going around the south pole when they're not they're going around in arctica but they're not actually doing that they're confused and they're going around this they're circumnavigating the entire planet somehow yeah the entire planet okay and there's a wall ice wall this ice wall right here right so this is where the the sailors are here they were confused that they were on the wrong side of it the whole time they're over here they're going around the entire planet without knowing it and then here's your wall and beyond the wall outer space you can dig into the wall and end up in outer they say there's secret land they say there's secret land like there's no that's where the garden of eden is and atlantis and um the nephilim and you know all these i think hitler still lives over there or something so you got to get the right the right viewpoint here go if you went back to the debate and go to an hour and two minutes and 40 seconds so i want to go to another baseless assertion again this guy says that i made baseless assertion let's hear his baseless assertions he's going to tell you that there are russian astronauts that have now come out and and said they were lying and said that the earth's flat and everything like that go ahead and go ahead and play it as soon as you have it an hour and two minutes of 40 seconds to be unbiased that's a it's a valid thing uh how are they faking this how are they deceiving how would how would so many people be in on it yeah so most people believe the earth's a glue almost no one's in on it like yeah if if there was a really large amount of people lying it would wouldn't be feasible it would remain a lie someone would spill the beans or whatever fast forward to the minute no one's going to space literal former soviet astronauts but um oh there we go the government you can right they have they have there's literal russian astronauts that say that it's flat and they faked it names quotes wouldn't you wouldn't you just say like boris so-and-so is this astronaut and he's already come out proven that it's flat yeah vladimir volchenkov yeah quote gruchov it's probably like like you you probably know a lot of these names like all the famous hockey players right what is it so you got terrace gorgachov and iliac kofelchuk he's actually a retired hockey player go ahead exactly i mean wouldn't you just name the person like we're saying like uh eritosthenes or you know we're bringing up uh specific people like leone fukko or we're bringing up all these people that did all these specific experiments i mean if they say hey name someone that observed the earth was around how about neil armstrong buzz aldrin michael collins on the apollo 11 mission how about all the people in the apollo 8 mission how about all the people in the apollo 13 mission you know how about dude perfect kobe cotton i literally named him he says that the earth is not flat at the end of his specific video let's play that i love this video let's see if we can pull up while we're talking here the dude perfect one and i know people are like oh man he appealed to dude perfect but but here's the thing dude perfect is a bunch of christians if you know like behind the scenes they're all like evangelical christians and they always try to make this claim that like somehow people who believe the earth is a sphere all like atheists or god-hating reprobates or something like that but that's just simply not true there's plenty of christians in fact the vast majority of christians believe that here's kobe cotton one of the guys from dude perfect he got an opportunity to fly in this space program and it's it's an independent private space program where you pay a bunch of money and they'll send you off into space and in fact their rocket which is cool it relands so they can reuse that like thrust booster for multiple of these missions and in fact that top capsule they even have that land softly enough i think they get to reuse that as well so um it just independent private companies wanting to space exploration obviously make money on people that are rich taking them to space giving them this experience but i think we can fast forward he's going like yeah you might have skipped out there oh yeah here it is here here's where the the capsule detached from the rocket and now they're experiencing what's known as zero gravity and so they're basically just floating and again you can't fake this kind of footage i mean look at the hair of these women it's just you can tell their hair is just completely like in disarray like that's not a normal experience they're in look at it he's just like upside down they're getting experience zero gravity for a short period of time and then they're going to take the camera at some point they're actually going to bring it up to the window here so we can see like there you go and of course they say like oh as he's bringing it up it kind of it kind of flattens out a little bit because this is a fish island or something but like look you can't fake this folks oh ping pong balls are now floating upwards so here's them descending go to the end of the video um i think i have a time stamp and i want to go to the end of the video and we're actually going to play a little bit of the audio here but uh you know his wife actually is like crying it's kind of a quick second that you can kind of see that she has teared up or whatever right there she's just like that was absolutely right there i mean you can tell like she was emotional because she was afraid her husband would literally die people have died in these explorations so you can tell like concern to have she was so it really is it's just black just this perfect circle super bright layer perfect circle can't say that truly the experience of a lifetime from the bottom of my heart thank you very very much thank you for real holy cow so that's like the owner it's a pleasure to meet you sir pleasure lifelong fan is the earth flat not flat i can confirm it's round he's an astronaut see oh this guy's lying all right so again he said oh russian astronauts came out and said it's fake i'm saying kobe cotton is an astronaut because the definition of astronaut is someone that went into space anybody that goes into space is considered an astronaut here's kobe cotton saying it's not flat he they literally have the video evidence of their journey i mean i'm just like what kind of empirical evidence did they have oh this is an appeal to authority right mine's an appeal to authority but them just saying making a statement russian astronauts say that it's flat i even tried to look this up i tried to do searching like if there was a russian astronaut and i couldn't find anything maybe there is maybe there was one but but i'm like it seems like a baseless assertion when you can't even verify oh russian astronauts say that it's flat folks i mean good night pastor thompson said in the chat room show the put on the screen while we're talking go to the go to the red bull jump because that's a pretty cool one too um some guy did like the highest freefall jump ever look at this guy look at this fake yeah it's all cgi it's all fisheye lens or whatever you know what maybe you're fake flat earther how about that so again we don't have to necessarily watch a little video 27 000 feet but again oh fake again cgi fish islands or whatever you know it's just like they just have to try and make excuses for all of this stuff and it's like what about all these people in the room they're just all like in on this scam like they're all just faking it or something or like they don't even believe this stuff i mean you know it's just crazy and in fact while he's even traveling down you can kind of see the curvature occasionally but he he has a couple problems because he's actually spinning and there's a problem that if he's spinning too much he could lose control and he could die so he has to like figure out a way to balance himself while he's in this freefall state to then you know release his parachute and not die and stuff like that so again he's just spinning but it's like no matter what perspective it's just a circle look at that i mean it's like a it was like a full rotation almost that you could see this guy spinning and see the earth is consistent with isaiah chapter number 40 in verse 22 oh it's a flat disc well he would have to be falling at the dead center for it to look like that yes which again it's like it doesn't matter what perspective what shape this guy looks like a circle no matter which perspective you view it in exactly consistent with the scriptures there's another um thing that i wanted to bring up uh when we were talking about some of these videos i can't remember which one now that i'm thinking off the top of my head i mean these these are all fake videos right ben it's all fake nothing's real everybody's cgi australia doesn't exist you know we're living in a simulation i don't know what else you want me to tell you at this point i really just don't know what else you want me to tell you again if their view is is true and just to go back to the bible very quickly we'll do a bible commercial break here because it calls it the circle of the earth the bible also says in matthew chapter 12 and verse 40 for as jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly so shall the son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth right so let's pretend for a minute that we're all stupid and we think the earth's flat oh it's a cone now so it's like a ice cream cone you have the flat top and because the bible says jesus went to the heart of the earth that's clear scripture so jesus is in this cone section right but now you have a perspective of the earth that is not a circle now it is a cone if you look at it in a specific way you say you sound condescending i don't care what you think i sound like i don't care okay go cry about it yeah here's the thing flat earthers will say like oh if you just do some research or whatever it's like okay how about watch our entire video and prove every single thing that i'm saying wrong but but they can't now i want to go back to the debate again and and bring up a few more points because we we're not done folks we're still not done go and let's go to an hour and 17 minutes here's the here's one of the funniest pictures that i could show right i could literally show tons of pictures of people with the spherical earth in bibles from the 13th 14th 15th 17th 18th century so are all those people like i said those people even the spherical earth you're straw manning what i said i didn't say i didn't believe in a spherical earth okay what i said was that the scriptures specifically say that it's not a spinning spherical earth and that the people what's up you believe the earth is a sphere what no all right pause it why would i he said he said i'm straw manning his position by saying that he doesn't believe the earth is a sphere that's literally the entire reason you're debating is because you you hold to a flat earth view that is not a straw man like this is again him just making word salads and not knowing what he's saying how can he say that i'm straw manning his position by saying he doesn't believe the earth is a sphere but then of course the moderator brought the discussion and took it away um it's just kind of crazy and then i i feel like i smashed him in the next minute but on you know this point specifically of just like how many people will be in on it but then uh the moderator o and benjamin brings up the idea of like climate change go to an hour and 19 minutes and 40 seconds his point is that well all these people are in on a climate change scam so therefore they can all be in on the flat earth or i'm sorry on the globe yeah but notice something that he brings up in this go see if you can play the one hour 19 minutes and 40 seconds here creations on a flat earth so i don't even know why they but yeah that's that's just what like the mainstream story is yeah and didn't you believe that the sun was 1 million miles away not 93 million yeah or or yeah it's a super far away i didn't even really make it specifically pastor shelly do you believe in mainstream space like trillions of stars light years away uh nuclear explosions do you believe like the mainstream mainstream space a different type of space do you believe that nuke in nuclear explosions what what does that even have to do number one with the argument they're having but who doesn't believe in nuclear explosions like that's bizarre like what about hiroshima do we just not even believe that the united states dropped an atomic bomb on the japanese which both parties readily admit that that happened like we're just like what like what does that even mean like i didn't realize that people didn't think that nukes exist but like i made fun of it in the sermon of the day because i just thought it was like one of the most retarded things i've ever heard yes i believe in nuclear explosions there's in fact a whole group of uh soldiers that came out and said that the government was testing nukes on them and that most of them became sterile and they had all kinds of medical issues like are they just all lying what will be the point of having all these people come out and saying the united states government's terrible and wicked and was nuking its own citizens and i will never forgive them for that like what what's the psi op there i don't have a response for you yeah i do believe in nuclear explosions and stars and of course they take really great offense at the idea of me saying that um we went to the moon but go go to a fast forward just a hair more to the 22 hour and 22 minute mark 25 second i brought up the solar eclipses and specifically how the patterns do not match bring this up on the screen before you play it yeah just bring that up um so notice that pattern and we saw it go through dallas you can see that one line that's going through austin and texas and mexico and kind of and drifting out you kind of see that line where we saw the solar eclipse have you seen that one yeah i said that line specifically doesn't match your flat earth mobile spinning i said this this doesn't match it so please explain to me why we see these various patterns and let's go ahead and play a little bit of this explanation here i'm not getting sound these pathways really do match realities things that we've observed and seen and they do fit with the heliocentric model so i'm just curious from austin's perspective you know what he would he would say about the solar and lunar eclipses that we observe that's about uh pastor shaw brings up a valid point that the globe model can make accurate predictions over time which is a good point and austin what is your answer as far as their ability to predict uh the eclipses go ahead what say you yeah just real quick i just want to say i i just looked that up it says the earth in the open expansive space says upon the face of the firm and like i said everyone can look that up but um eclipses that the prediction of eclipses aren't exclusive to anything to do with the globe right it's not exclusive to the earth being a sphere nor of the earth moving around the sun um it comes back funny enough in the about babylonians the caldeons like 2500 bc at the sterile cycle that was built upon before that you can actually go to adl dot place uh that's the anti-disinformation league so it's the good adl and uh you'll find all of this mapped out on a plane we can perfectly map out exactly when it's going to happen on a plane earth and the sun and the moon they have their specific cycles they even change like relative positions throughout time and it's just a cycle that repeats and in both situations your prediction gets more and more accurate the closer it gets to the time of the all right if you paid attention they changed the and he he'd said that i wouldn't go here look this up or whatever but we're gonna go there adl dot place you can go to this guy's website and he has this little model thing i think you have to scroll down a little bit maybe um yeah so here's his little model now you're gonna have to play around with this for me but you you can basically grab it i think at the top of this model and drag it down so you can see it from a top down view um but you can you can shift this and rotate that top yep perfect rotate it there and then see those bars at the bottom those you can adjust yes but i want to do it eclipses so you have to click there's a tab up above this model that says eclipses all right yes perfect okay now scroll down just a hair there's a but there's a button at the bottom that you check mark that says like moon i can show you can add the moon so you have the sun track there you go moon track all right scroll up a little bit again now the top two bars they they can you can see it spinning so you can adjust just grab them just move them just move them the top two black bars yeah see so we're gonna cycle so this is why i was explaining their little mobile design and just you can go you can go more violently if you want but it doesn't really matter you can sit here and spin these however you want spin the top one or go to the use the top black bar okay here's them spinning but you know what you're never going to notice ben you're going to never notice the sun or the moon go through that path of north america you can kind of see in the center you see the black dot that's like the north pole and then we have the continent of north america right there on the left just on the left side of that black dot and you would have to have a line going through slicing through it this way and you literally never see it he said we can predict every single one of these solar eclipses and stuff with these models they're plotted out okay show it no way to recreate the most recent or any solar eclipse that has ever occurred through this flat earth utility on the website and not only would they have to do that they would have to be able to just literally figure all this stuff hit the button play and let's cycle through and show all of the solar eclipses from all the past decades and the future decades because pastor anderson had demonstrated for us in the good friday debunked um episode was great episode go check it out well pastor anderson showed a software that does have the moon and the sun cycles based on a heliocentric model and it is something that you can constantly see project they can give the predictions of when these things are going to happen the paths in which they're going to come because look science has figured this out folks we can trace these things this model while i'll give it was a pretty cool design as far as just like software programming like it's cool that they're able to make something like this it's retarded at the same time because their model doesn't prove cosmology it doesn't go back to the graphic that i'm thankful they made it so we can use their own model to refute their position yeah exactly if um the solar oh no it was in the video i'm sorry in the debate video we were we were getting a glimpse of the graphic that uh if you just scroll back in time just a hair yeah there you go perfect so notice again the their little spinning mobile does not make all these patterns impossible yeah it doesn't work did you i mean show us how we're wrong austin show us on that model show us how you can have a literal solar eclipse through that which again he can't because it's just not true folks it's not legitimate go to an hour and 26 minutes and 40 seconds he's going to bring up the ecef and i i want to explain that as well where we kind of talked about this and we have a video that we'll play just in the background but play the one hour 26 minutes and about 40 seconds of the debate here here we go the earth and no they weren't just done in 1600s like i said they were done in 2500 bc by the caldeons it's called the sero cycle and they were a flat earth geocentric civilization it isn't exclusive to either one they've reverse engineered the globe from what we see in the sky like i said uh the predictions aren't exclusive to any belief and also just to make sure you guys know what i'm saying the date is pretty well known to get to more narrow of exactly when in that day it'll happen you have to get closer to the actual time because of the periodicity of the sun and the moon over time i'm talking about they changed the location so like the the path of totality they were actually narrowing it down and moving it over by a few miles over leading up to that moment um and this was just well known and accepted in like mainstream articles you could look it up now it wasn't it wasn't like hundreds of miles well my point is just this idea is that there's a specific sphere with a specific size and we know where everything is and we're going to be able to tell you where the eclipse is that isn't how it works the eclipse is based on the periodicity of the sun and the moon it's been mapped out since 2500 bc all right go ahead skip ahead a little bit because he's just elaborating at nasa with the point that we just made talking about how you can predict well no because typically the ecs is using a sphere middle and we can see everything the way we do or it can go back a little bit i'm sorry i probably isn't really required um go back like 30 you know but the point is that even in the current model there's a backup 30 seconds back well no because typically the ecf is using a sphere right so i don't know you gotta go like a minute now like the sphere isn't really required 30 seconds um you know but the point is that i love my crew folks and dynamic equivalents which is defense go back to like an hour and 32 minutes even okay i didn't mess them up did i is that what you were saying probably it's ben's fault all right well let me read hey even we can make some mistakes here hey he hangeth the earth upon nothing folks go ahead and your model still man is because of relativity everything occurs on the earth as if the earth's in a state of rest from the earth it's always going to look like we're stationary so to map everything you just treat it like it's stationary sorry you're breaking up it's fine he he brings up the ecf uh we'll come back for your point it's fine let's go ahead and play the ecf ecef video because i wanted there was there was a little bit of time where i talked about this and you can just play in the background there's no audio um but i was talking about this and he kind of brought it up originally but you have the eci and you have the ecif and i brought both of these up the ecf is essentially fixed with the earth based on its rotation whereas the eci is fixed no matter how much the earth is spinning and that's based on the idea of gps satellites needing to know how to pinpoint and send signals to the earth and then the eci since it's not moving that's in relation to how stars their light is traveling towards the earth in a fixed position obviously the earth itself is orbiting the sun and so there's a slight variation there but those are helpful to determining gps and specifically the movement of stars in our solar system and i just found it fascinating that he would appeal to the ecf where it says earth center to fix sure but that's in respect to the fact that the earth is literally spinning otherwise you wouldn't need it to to talk about the earth center or fix because it's always fixed of course it's fixed there's no reason to even bring this up the reason why we have the ecif is because the earth literally is spinning and we need to figure out those coordinates and of course those coordinates are mathematically calculated on a sphere shape and he's like well i don't really like the ecf because it's based on a sphere it's like so so then so what we have to now believe that satellites they're literally lying they tell us that this is how they're calculating it based on the ecf and a sphere but they're not really doing it on a sphere they're doing it in a completely different part of their own secret science their own secret math or something and just to be clear when he brought up that it's a model based on a fixed earth what he means by that is like the geocentric it's not spinning slash it's not orbiting the sun is that what he thinks that that we that means so just twisting the definition of what they mean when they use that word fixed well again if you look up ecef in wikipedia it'll talk about how it's a geodidactic or something let me get the exact terminology here because i don't want to i don't want to misspeak here but it is based on the earth being uh stationary in a sense but and they'll say it's a geocentric coordinate system it's a geocentric distance there's also like they don't mean earth at the center of the universe they're not talking about geocentrism and that's the point that i tried to bring up and that but that's what he thinks that that is referring to so they're using a geodetic datum so that's just the they want to have a fixed position for the satellites just in the sense that obviously you are in a fixed position right you on the earth are in a fixed position or wherever they're sending these coordinates to but since the earth is rotating they then have to tell these satellites specifically where they're sending that specific signal in respect to the sphere because if they just send it to the same point all the time well they're not going to send it to you because the earth is spinning so you have the earth center fixed to say like this is where you're at no matter what because while the earth is spinning that's the specific coordinates that you're in and it's used in GPS which stands for global positioning system they probably really hate that acronym of GPS here's another thing they brought up and i wasn't able to answer this on the show because i just i couldn't remember i actually heard this in the past but i just didn't you know there's a lot of stuff to learn but they were asking me about thrust in regards to a vacuum i don't know if you remember that question specifically but i was kind of trying to explain how whenever you go up off of the earth from net you know nasa specifically in houston or maybe they sometimes shoot off from florida but they go up and they start orbiting the earth and then they use their thrusters just to get just out of earth's orbit and then shoot in their trajectory towards the moon but since it is a vacuum in space they don't really need a lot of thrust they're just already in a trajectory there's no resistance so they're basically just maintaining speed towards the moon and the only thing they would need the thrust for is to to basically recalibrate or to make sure that they're on the right trajectory the right you know um line pattern but the way that they get thrust is they literally have oxygen on the rocket it's an oxidizer and they mix the oxygen with the fuel to create the um combustion so they're like oh how are you gonna get you know combustion and all this stuff in a vacuum they bring the oxygen with them folks and you know why they have oxygen on the rockets ben you tell me it's so the the astronaut can breathe like the astronauts need to be able to breathe and you know what do they need in order to breathe oxygen why do they have a space suit so they don't die why because there's no oxygen in space i feel like you're a you've already schooled all of these flat earthers in five seconds i'm yeah i mean clearly so what would happen if they just lifted up their expert go ahead what if they just lift up their shield are they going to be breathing you know what i'm sure flat tards would say absolutely yes oh you believe that we went to the moon why not hey somebody says in the chat room here roblar some billionaire needs to send flat heads to space just to shut them up all right i agree go to an hour and 57 minutes because maybe keep them there too i want to i want to dissect one more word salad before we kind of end the stream and i know it's been a while obviously at this point the flat earthers have already turned off they they're crying we strawman them that's what they're going to say they're you straw man we didn't represent we misrepresented their argument we're not willing to accept any of this evidence yeah so you know you you can believe in nukes but i want to dissect one more word salad and this one's a pretty funny one to me so go ahead and play the hour and 57 like the commenter said obviously this this the view of these stars in the south pole totally disproves the flat earth dude the orbit in the sun has nothing to do with magnetic declination corrections it has to do with the observation of stars which was what the question was about so of course you're strong we have another solid question i'm sorry another question you're gonna have to go back like maybe two minutes explain ecclesiastes go back two minutes or something and play maybe just go back a little bit more yeah to go right there play right there best and throws in a fiber so he gets a little priority uh even though a lot of people want to know why i suck so bad how do you explain the phenomenon of star trails and long-term exposure photographs which show circular patterns centering around the south pole as this directly debunks the flat earth model austin what say you yeah i explained that earlier it can be replicated with like a dome and basically just reflecting out you also see crepuscular and anti-crepuscular rays it takes some explaining but like the sun can set in the west and this is wild and so you'll see the sun setting in the west and then there will be rays converging on the horizon in the east at the same time looking like there's a sun like a light source over there that's because that's how our perspective works it literally has a limit we have a limit in all directions basically we have a dome of vision and everything towards the edge of that starts to converge and compress and so it's literally a real thing called crepuscular and anti-crepuscular rays so you can't really deny that it happens and if that was going to be applied to the sky over top of a plain earth it'd be the same thing and again when they claim that it's going south actually they use major magnetic declination corrections on the globe it needs to be directly south that we're seeing it right but why do we have to correct 150 degrees 80 degrees 90 degrees the claim that we're seeing it in the south so it's not exclusive to a globe earth i do get that if you believe the directions corrections are correct you'd be like oh isn't that convenient it matches the globe it doesn't until you correct the cardinal direction with declination and it can be explained with vision like crepuscular and anti-crepuscular rays so uh yeah there you go all right there you go wow you're such an intellectual just okay what is crepuscular and anti-crepuscular rays let's just ask wikipedia and i know they hate this but um what is did you even hear these words before this totally unfamiliar no of course not i i didn't either let's just talking about let's just look it up just to double check but essentially it is at twilight specifically sometimes when the sun is setting you'll see all these lines in the horizon kind of uh going towards the center and all just colliding there in perspective click on that picture on the far right this gives it see can you see those lines all converging towards the horizon this is what it this is the crepuscular and anti-crepuscular rays now crepuscular is when the lines are all converging towards the sun i believe and then what's interesting is how if you look at the other side if you look at the east the anti-crepuscular would also show these light rays on the opposite side and he's like oh it's wild the question was about star trails folks and in fact crepuscular root word means twilight so we're crepuscular and anti-crepuscular rays are dealing with the sun setting at twilight specifically go back to the the star trail picture when we um maybe you can bring up that image again yeah that one this is what the question was about why are we seeing star trails being clown or clockwise in the north pole clockwise in the south pole and straight at the equator he brought up anti-crepuscular rays basically what sunlight looks like as it's near twilight sometimes you see an illusion of lines all converging which looks gorgeous it's a beautiful site cool i've seen it some nothing to do with the question but certainly a interesting view i mean this this is the kind of and then he says oh view magnetic you know it talks about magnetism and and declination magnetism and and uh declination okay well let's look that up magnetic declination what does magnetic declination have to do with star trails again let's figure it out here yeah so i i just went to the national centers for environmental information which is trying to explain magnetic declination and again this is talking about specifically how the magnetism on the earth and you can kind of see maybe you can play that video a little bit i don't know maybe if you click on it go to like about three minutes and like 18 seconds or something on it and yeah yeah yeah just click on that and just kind of make it bigger see if you can pause it even just because you can kind of see so it's talking about how the magnetic fields and forces on the earth are this interesting pattern and sometimes you have to make adjustments it'll even bring up the idea of like how a compass may have to be altered based on true north versus these this magnetic declination um let's just read the definition magnetic declination sometimes called magnetic variation is the angle between magnetic north and true north declination is positive east of true north and negative when west magnetic declination changes over time and with location as the compass points with local magnetic fields declination value is needed to obtain true north so essentially it's talking about how magnetism of the earth and using compasses can sometimes have different results and vary a little bit based on north and magnet what does this have to do how does this stars yeah going clockwise and counterclockwise it does not answer it clearly doesn't answer the problem with your model austin with regard to star trails and how they go in different directions depending on where you are on the earth it doesn't answer it at all and we know what you're doing we know what you did anybody with a brain can recognize that you use these words to make it seem like you're smart to make it seem like you're educated or clued in you're not you just research it for a few minutes and you figure out that what you said had nothing to do with the topic at hand at all i have a meme for austin about using these words like antigropuscular magnetic declination to address star trails and how they look different depending on where you are on the earth and a spherical model yeah it makes me think of this movie princess bride have you ever seen the movie princess bride before i believe i have okay for once so it'll be that i've seen that you've seen you keep using that word i don't think it means what you think it means antigropuscular hey can you explain star trails antigropuscular rays yes magnetic declination well actually stellar parallax wild things the flux capacitor you know what makes me think of and i hate to reference this movie but it makes me think of that movie anchorman and there's a guy named brick and he just he's just like lamps carpet and he's like are you just looking at things in the room and just saying them it's like yes are you just are you just looking up words in the dictionary and just saying them or like what what's going on and according you're just not smart enough find a difficult word in the dictionary and say it that is how you win debates apparently yeah just bring up some obscure phenomenon in our solar system or in our universe and and claim that that somehow has nothing has something to do with star trails well okay he's so much smarter than us he understands it why wouldn't he have explained it in a simplistic term where other people could even see like how am i supposed to be convinced or won over if i can't even understand the argument you're making am i supposed to just immediately just say you know what you're right you're smarter than me must be true you know whatever like look this is the perfect time for me to bring up this scripture right here in first corinthians chapter 14 it says in verse 8 for if the trumpet give an uncertain sound who shall prepare himself to the battle so likewise ye except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood how shall it be known what is spoken for ye shall speak into the air you cannot convince me that austin is not speaking into the air on this in these clips that we have looked at in the debate that he participated in this past tuesday night he's speaking into the air on purpose to snow you the audience into thinking that he is of a higher intellect than the rest of us when in reality if you actually want to be an effective teacher you have to break down the information so it's palatable for people so they know exactly what you're saying that's the entire point i could sit here and regurgitate information that you don't understand until i'm blue in the face and accomplish nothing unless i want you to think that i'm super smart how about this verse romans one verse 22 professing themselves to be wise they became fools hey that was j tank in the comment section i figured you'd like that one ben all right let's play really like that one let's play uh a little bit more of this debate because i i'm not going to do the whole show i think at this point it's pretty obvious but there's there's a few more things that i just want to point out that i find hilarious and and this is one where austin makes this claim there's no videos in space of stars stars but we'll look at it and see if it lines up with where they claim they are it doesn't exist though so there's no videos or they're all fake because i want to understand there are no no there are no videos outside of low earth orbit even claim to be real with stars in the videos like none so that's pretty sketchy don't you think don't you think if you went to space in a vacuum all you would see is stars you'd be swimming in a sea of stars the first thing you would do is give people like 4k live stream of just the beautiful i can take this camera outside right now and just point toward the sky you probably wouldn't see anything so it doesn't really matter i mean yeah you can go plenty of photographs the guy so the guy's clearly ignoring exposure issues that just because you take a picture of something or have video something you're not going to see all the light in it i took plenty of pictures of the solar eclipse and it it's unfortunately so underwhelming of what it really looked like but here is iss showing us stars and again there's other videos like this we actually have multiple videos of this um go if you would see if you can pull up the 10 hour one that and and you can skip you can skip around it's like i'm just enjoying the view right now what do you think ben i mean there's stars there so he hang at the earth upon nothing how about when the bible but let's get some bible verses going on this because you know one of the things that i really like is uh this this passage from psalms when i consider thy heavens the work of thy fingers the moon and the stars which thou hast ordained what is man that thou art mindful of him and the son of man that thou visitest him so the bible is saying like when i consider this the heavens and the stars and it makes me feel so small and just just like virtually like nothing in this vast universe and that's the that's the psalmist thing like you know what is man that our mind this little globe dome thing i'm sorry not globe this little dome half semicircle dome thing they have it's not nearly as impressive of course not it doesn't have the same awe factor of all of these stars yeah here's another this is a 10 hour video and they have all kinds of different shots here's even more stars that they're showing um you could skip around in this video as much as you want some of it some shots don't have the stars but around the eight hour mark i think uh they had a lot of shots i think of um stars that you could see so you got to go a little further yeah somewhere in somewhere around here i remember there was some shots that had stars that you could see this is probably a picture in all fairness but as i did see some examples in here so you can keep you can keep scrolling i just want to i want to keep going through some of these bible verses here and we might just kind of go through some of the other points that i had that i didn't get to bring up in the debate real quick but you know the bible says that the sun rises and goes down their their flat earth model doesn't have that it doesn't have the sun going up and down it's just spinning around and around the bible says from the rising of the sun under the going down of the same the lord's name is to be praised and again that's from an earthbound perspective that the sun's going up and going down but from their model it's not even going up and down going further away from you you know i asked my nine-year-old how we know that the earth is spinning and he said well because that's how we get a year is the earth makes its orbit around the sun in a one-year time from these other models it doesn't make sense even from a geocentristic model it geocentrism doesn't explain why we have a calendar year geocentrism doesn't explain why we have the month which is the moon cycling around the earth it doesn't explain the day which is one full rotation of the earth specifically or the week of course is coming from genesis chapter number one you know and geocentrism is a dangerous doctrine that is also denying reality gateway drug and the gateway drug to other reality denial and dangerous things like we should be afraid of someone that has this viewpoint the bible says he stretches out the north over the empty place and hangeth the earth upon nothing um the bible says that he about the earth he created not in vain he formed it to be inhabited the bible talks about first birds flying in the open ferment i'd love to get in that genesis 120 argument specifically too let's go let's just go a rapid pace just from a few more graphics i want to show a few more things can you pull up graphic five and this is something that i think is interesting too the bible says in genesis chapter number seven about the flood and the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth and all the high hills this is another that were under the whole heaven were covered well okay what about their stupid ice wall well they have to believe in a local flood that's how they get out are they denying are they denying genesis 7 that it was and it says even specifically like 15 qubits upwards right over everything but then they just have to deny they say oh believe the bible okay i do believe the bible show me a flat earth model where you can have the water 15 feet above you can't you literally can't it doesn't say like oh it was 15 feet above but then there was this secret ice wall that was you know keeping everything in um and then the waters go to graphic into space there yeah i want to go to graphic 11 or image 11 i'm sorry here's another argument that we didn't bring up was just the the curvature of the earth on the moon here is an eclipse now show image 12 because this is someone that was taking pictures the same night as the moon was moving hmm that's an interesting thing that's going on what about image 13 what if you drew a circle around that i wonder what that would look like that's interesting isn't it ooh i wonder what that is that's blocking the moonlight go to image 13-1 go to the next one here's another this is a completely different night from a different photographer showing all these journeys of the moon it looks like there's this round spherical object that's blocking the light huh i wonder what that has been in fact go to graphic 14 now how how do they even explain total total lunar eclipses because whenever the moon goes through a total lunar eclipse we actually see it turn bright red it's called a blood moon right which is explained by the light that's coming off of the earth is is actually giving the moon that red color because it's blocked by the sun so the sun's not showing shining its light we see these things these phenomenon happen i've seen i've seen the red blood moons have you seen one before yes how do they explain that there is no way to explain it just the phases of the moon in cgi nasa fake you know yeah everything what can i say it just look just it's right there folks go to graphic 32 it's just ridiculous just the paths of the sun specifically so why we have summer and winter is explained a little bit by the sense that the sun's pattern like you have more to sunlight but again this is this this shape that we see of the moon and the sun is not fitting their mobile flat design it's not going like this it's going up and around and down the only way that's possible is if a the spin the earth spinning or b everything in the universe is spinning around the earth but here's here's why that's absurd that's absurd because you would literally have stars traveling at like 10 or 100 or a thousand times the speed of light literally in order to make these kind of journeys around it literally and it's been proven false with foku pendulum the pendulum experiment with the gyroscope experiment there's just an infinite number of reasons why this is this is why plus you have to deny all science regarding space technology all like all the moon stuff all the satellites all these things they're just all lying why would you even create the earth-centered earth fix gps coordinate system if the earth wasn't spinning it's based on the fact that the earth is spinning and they need to have a fixed coordinate system so they can communicate with those satellites you're just saying all of it's a lie all of it's a lie so basically if you literally look into the sky and observe the sun setting or rising if you literally use google maps or any kind of gps device you're disproving flat earth every time you do those things this is why i often say just look at the sky flat hard look at the sky everything proves it debunks you the horizon proves them wrong the horizon proves you wouldn't even have a horizon on a flat earth metal you would never have clouds meet the meet the horizon line because they're always above them just the fact that clouds sit on the horizon line instantly proves that the earth is curved okay here's what is interesting that people don't know this is the apollo 12 mission they made a micro form version of the king's aims bible that the astronauts would take with them to space and specifically even on the moon they took the kingdom's bible and if you could zoom in enough you could actually have you could realize this is the entire text of the king james bible isn't that incredible that is yeah i think graphic 34 has the one from apollo 14 and graphic 35 this is kind of an explanation of this microphone yeah that's a great image right there that's look at this oh i guess it just all lies it's all satanists and stuff like that it was satanists that wanted to literally take the kingdom's bible and put it on the moon right just to prove just to prove how bad like this is supposed to cause you to not believe in the bible in fact the apollo 8 mission they literally read genesis 1 on live television for everybody so i'm supposed to believe that nasa is is a a goal to try and get people to not believe the bible so they're going to go up into space and read the bible on national television live broadcast it talk about how they're taking the bible there and in fact there was a an individual that took a real bible like that we are not a real bible i'm just meaning like what we think of as a copied physical document parchment paper you know like what we think of as a physical bible that we use on a daily basis he took one and literally left it on the lunar module as the apparent story and it's a king james bible amen to that hey at least if you know aliens find the moon you know they will be king james they got the king james only no choice it's the only one they have leap ears leap ears i don't understand how they explain this every four years we're literally adding another day to our calendar why why on their stupid little thing and if if we were doing this arbitrarily our seasons would have changed so much over a couple hundred years to where we would be having christmas in july as far as seasonally perspective like a seasonal but it would be hot you don't think anybody ever would notice that or notice this change go to graphic 43 here's the um the stars being flipped upside down so in the northern hemisphere and the southern hemisphere in fact some stars i think it's the southern cross can't even be seen from every perspective of the earth the moon is flipped upside down so graphic 44 the next one um and notice how this is easy to understand actually graphic 45 is even better that one's kind of blurry you don't have to be a pseudo-intellectual here go to graphic 45 this is easy you could show children this stuff um did it get mixed up because there's one where it's like the earth and two people standing isaiah five says one to them that are wise in their own eyes and prudent in their own sight that's yeah there we go so see this is what this is the explanation thank you doesn't that make perfect sense why that would be upside down yeah i mean it's it's like hey our side image instantly shows exactly what we believe their side it's just like russians denied this and well it just all these baseless accusations i want to show a couple more things i want to show one more thing that i think's really interesting see if you can pull up pull up proverbs chapter number eight and i want to just go through about the clouds a few verses here yeah yeah because because i find this really fascinating when i was studying this topic because we talked about that he says upon the circle of the earth well it's that's words translated as compass in proverbs chapter 8 verse 27 so if you scroll down to verse 27 you might zoom in a hair because it's it's kind of hard yeah perfect so it says when he prepared the heavens i was there when he set a compass upon the face of the depth well that compass that is the hugu word that is also in reference to the circle in isaiah 40 verse 22 okay okay now again crate no problem there but this is what's interesting about proverbs what day of creation do you think he's referencing here when he prepared the heavens what verse comes to mind um well i'm thinking about the creation of the sun moon and stars okay let's scroll up a bit go to verse 25 because i want to see if you can come to the same conclusion day four that'd be day four um okay so verse 23 i was set up from everlasting from the beginning or ever the earth was when there was no depths i was brought forth when there were no fountains abounding with water before the mountains were settled before the hills was i brought forth while as yet he had not made the earth oh what day do you think we're talking about so far this is he had not made the earth so what day we're talking about clearly we're like before the creation even happened before day one right or day one yeah so before he had even made the earth verse 27 when he prepared the heavens i was there so what what day do you think we're on now we're we hit day one at this point we're on day one right when he set a compass upon the face of the depth okay see if you can do me a favor can you bring up genesis keep this here because i want to come right back go to genesis one two and let's get this on the screen because i i really want to help people understand this point because it's a really a great biblical point here can we not switch the tabs or something see if we can just pull it up um genesis one our crew is fantastic folks because i didn't even give them any prep and they're just doing stuff on the fly yeah bring us scroll up again in the beginning god created the heaven and the earth and the earth was without form and void and darkness was upon the face of the deep i see so there's the connection right there so verse proverbs 8 verse 27 he's putting the compass on the on the face of the depth right go back to proverbs 8 27 if you can is genesis one yeah so there notice he says when he said a compass upon the face of the depth look at verse 28 when he established the clouds above which he strengthened the fountains of the deep now what happens on day two go if you went to genesis chapter number one again if you can and go to so he creates light and then it's the first day in verse five verse six scroll up a hair and god said let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters and let it divide the waters from the waters and god made the ferment and divided the waters which were under the ferment from the waters which were above the ferment and it was so and god called the ferment heaven and the evening in the morning or the second day so going back to proverbs we have a ferment in the midst of waters which he calls heaven and again we call that sky okay that's what our word is that we use the sky what will be the waters above the sky clouds what does it say in verse 28 when he established the clouds above when he strengthened the fountains of the deep so there you have the clouds and you have the oceans and you have what's in between them the firmament which just means expanse or sky or space and so there's a space in between the clouds that are above and the clouds that are below and then what is the next one verse 29 when he gave to the sea his decree that the water should not pass his commandment when he appointed the foundations of the earth what happens on day three plants and land well there's not plants but go i guess yeah i guess there is vegetation right okay so go back to go back to this verse nine and god said uh let the waters under the heaven be gathered together into one place and let the dry land appear and it was so and god called the dry land earth and the gathering together of the waters he called seas and god saw that it's good so you actually have this mini day of creation in proverbs in proverbs chapter eight where it's day one creation where it's heaven's earth day two the clouds in the in the oceans day three you have the dry land which go back to proverbs again and i just want to make that clear as we're kind of flipping back and forth on these but notice what he said in verse 29 when he gave to the sea his decree that the water should not pass his commandment what is the waters that are not passing his commandment the dry land when he appointed the foundations of what of the earth yeah do you see that yep it's kind of like un like once you've seen it it's like something you can't miss anymore and so we have like a mini it's just kind of recapping the entire creation event right here but this is what's really important verse 28 bring it back on the screen now that i kind of help explain this do you see what i'm yeah i get you yeah i get you totally verse 28 when he established the clouds above so you know what that's explaining the waters above the firmament it's explained but then all these flat tards they just basically say that there's literally like water outside this dome or something like that they have this like bizarre weird you know it's like it's like no folks we're talking about the clouds the bible explains itself this is what it was talking about yeah the waters which were above the firmament uh would be the clouds right there god made the firmament divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament and it was so and you can go to proverbs chapter 8 and in verse 28 it actually tells you what the firmament above i'm sorry what the water was above the firmament there so it makes perfect sense and you know my view is even historical go go if you went to image 55 and i want to show a lot of these there are excerpts from bibles of antiquity that show this view of this compass on a sphere look at this this is in the 1300s this is a french bible from 1350 here is jesus with the compass on the sphere on day one of creation is that not obvious yeah go to the go to the next one image 56 here's a 1300s bible where there's what do you think that's representing appears to be a spherical earth day and night yeah day and night yeah and it's per it's like right in the half yeah because half of the earth is always lit and the other half is always dark okay go if you would to the next one yeah yeah here this one is 1300s as well here's another sphere go to the next one this one's another 1300s here's the compass on an obvious sphere because see those little black lines they drew that's to help you visually understand that this isn't some flat disc but this is rather okay an oblate spheroid if you really want to get want to get technical or something but it you could argue is even a perfect sphere at first and through the rotation of the earth it's spinning that's what's caused the equator to slightly bulge because that's what they even argue to where it's not a quote perfect sphere it's an oblate sphere right so maybe it was a perfect sphere on day one maybe not i don't know it doesn't it doesn't really matter it's virtually a sphere folks go if you would to image 59 you can call it a sphere here's multiple days of creation but you can see if you scroll into the top left corner you can see that same sphere and notice the black lines again what he has in his left hand there that is the circle of the earth there folks go to 61 go to image 61 same thing top left corner of the first day of creation you have what you have that compass so it's not like i randomly came up with this interpretation interpretation of i mean isn't this everybody it's illustrated this is 1400s bible illustrated in these images okay go to 62 how many do you need here's somebody sitting on what the compass the circle the compass the circle of the earth right the circle of the earth circle of the earth i mean image 63 how many more do we have to like here's him with the compass image 64 we've got the creation of a spherical earth um here's interesting go to image 65 this is actually the first globe that we know about and i believe this so this is from 1491 and i feel like century here i this is what i feel like i was always told like everyone believed the earth was flat doesn't appear to be the case until christopher comes right until 1492 when columbus sailed the ocean blue like everybody believed it was flat what about the person that made this yeah that's that's horseman or go to image 66 here's here's multiple old they all they were all flat 1700s 1500s here's plenty of globes go to i want to go to some maps too this is interesting go to image 67 this is from 1507 here is someone's map of the world you know why they have those odd looking shapes because they thought it was a sphere look folks if ben can get it anybody i'm just kidding ben's very smart let's just play let's just play the map game image 68 oh sphere image 69 this is incredible think about this they didn't have gps they didn't have all of the modern technologies that we had today look at some of the accuracy of these photographers yeah there's enough observable evidence that's why go to image 70 just keep going yeah this is a 1590s map and we got another 1500s map um this one's from 1500s the next one this is from 1627 here's one from 1753 the next one 1707 this one's from the 18th century just kind of more of a vague timeline 1858 now this next one 78 this is a japanese map from 1875 but look at the precision of this particular map i mean this is incredible and oh i guess the japanese were in were japanese nasa shills in 1875 they were nasa shills back then yes like what what in the world like the the gaslighting of history is just in is just immense but i've noticed again i want to bring this up but tyler doka who was this weirdo like pretended to be a pastor was a flat earther and he basically just started denying all kinds of history and reality to the point where he said that all the stuff of jesus never even happened and then now he's the real jesus or something but it just goes to a complete rejection of all historical fact and that's what's dangerous about these viewpoints is people just start denying reality denying history denying well the nose on their face they're scary because it's like if you're willing to deny all of this reality an objective fact what else are you willing to believe that's what's scary about this all right just just give us some while we're talking and finishing just give us some iis you know live stream footage of the circle of the earth because that just i just love it especially the aurora lights isn't that cool it very very much so yeah it's all fake phenomenon fake it's everything's fake yeah we're not even here see what's interesting is this this individual in the chat here bobio says i like how the maps are progressively getting better more accurate the distortion of flattening a globe onto a flat plane is always fun yeah i mean that was a good point that the the maps are actually getting better over time showing their accuracy improving and it's like it's kind of funny it's like they they assume like oh by the year 2024 just think about the progress we're going to have and then it's a flat men are women yeah you know joe biden's our president it's like st amalek is making this claim in the chat room it had already been theorized that the earth was brown that was a great image guys good job john thanks so much for that john nelson darby started a propaganda campaign to claim christians thought the earth was flat to make christians look stupid that's what this person is saying in the chat j tank says on a globe there is an infinite amount of circles which is again one of many reasons why to describe the planet as the circle of the earth to describe it as a circle is perfectly accurate and more consistent with a globe than a cone or pancake or whatever the hell shape they want to give it well and they always oh what about the ends of the earth but it's like folks we're just talking about continents folks or we're just talking about people coming from every part of the world it's there's always an explanation for these these verses and it's funny how they want to be so overly literal in those places and then cherry pick and be metaphorical on other places it's you know most of these people don't even believe the bible they don't like church they're not going soul winning they're not taking christianity seriously they don't believe salvation by faith and in fact if you meet most flat earthers the most important thing they can possibly talk to you about is the shape of the earth yep that's they're usually not focused on the gospel they're not focused on salvation well i've experienced this i mean i've known you went to a church filled with these people yeah like i mentioned earlier in the stream really the only time i've interacted with them on a consistent basis has been when they popped up in churches i've gone to and specifically in jacksonville when i went to our church plant out there for a while yeah there were some church members who believed the earth was a flat disc and that was all they could talk about that is all they wanted to debate me on that is all they wanted to have conflict over that is all they wanted to evangelize that was it they wanted to talk about that constantly it was their main focus and it becomes an obsession with these people it becomes this is what they live for this is what they evangelize this is the their lie that they want to spread and it's scary and you know what let me mention this real quick and i know we already talked about it but i want to quote it one more time genesis 120 and god said let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath light and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven in the firmament the open firmament you had austin in the debate claim that there is a dome a physical dome over the planet and that the bible teaches this unequivocally do not twist the scriptures that way that is false you are lying about what the word of god says it says that there is an open firmament in which birds are flying inside of it explain to me how that's consistent with your model of a physical dome it is not stop lying about god's word and twisting scripture well and you you look at the comments of the video and it's like jesus king 13 the bible proves the earth is a sphere no it doesn't it proves well or i'm sorry never mind i thought he said you got really mad sorry sorry sorry go ahead my fault with the question marks the bible proves the earth is a sphere where does he get this i don't see any scriptures that prove this extremely delusional flat earth truther says big bang heliocentrism and evolution is a big lie yeah that's the name fe truther it's it's like okay big bang a lie yes evolution is a lie yes heliocentrism no and again that's that's their tactic bring something up that's obviously not true throw it in there um worst moderator ever uh oh benjamin ruined the debate i'm just reading the comments i'm this isn't my opinion pardon my language but owen benjamin is a uh worst moderator ever a lot of moderator comments here's the thing folks i'm glad that owen did the show because it brought a lot of attention to the show and again we we definitely had a spat at the beginning and i wish that we'd iron that out more but he was somewhat fair i would say that he did he probably even gave me more talking time than austin specifically um and again he did have a few moments where i strongly disagree to this opinion i mean he's telling me that uh observation is somehow not evidence which you know how could you have eyewitnesses in a law in a court of law if observation is not acceptable as evidence but at the end of the day like hey the show got a lot of views on it and how can you really ruin a flat earth debate it's already just kind of stupid like it's already just dumb the whole point was just to get people to watch and owen brought a lot of people to watch the show so it was a success he didn't he didn't ruin it would have been ruined is to have nobody watch it because i really don't want to talk about this except for the fact that just proved the delusion that people under when they deny the fact that our earth is spinning that our earth is rotating around the sun and look again the sun is a picture of jesus and a picture of god and how you know our world it's not everything's not revolving on us narcissists yeah we're evolved we're going around and revolving and orbiting around god because it's about god specifically and again that's the point the point is and again think about even false religion false religion is sun worshiping and again obviously it's based on the truth that we're orbiting the sun people have known this in the past we know it today and there's always going to be delusional people that reject this that don't believe it and you know i think most people probably won't be won over ever want to win be won over on this issue but if you're out there and you're even kind of questioning it look you need to get on the right side of this issue because technology and science is only going to get increasingly more advanced and this flat earth position is going to look dumber and dumber in fact one of the india space explorers that went to the moon literally took pictures of the united states leftovers from the moon you can see it i i sent the um article to i think dylan because he was asking me about it but there's a i think it was in 2015 if i remember correctly um india takes pictures of and i think they had a picture of the the lunar module the rover and the tracks that were on there as well and it was i think it was in 2015 let me see if i wonder that's the last thing maybe we can pull up here um as we're talking about it but yes folks i believe we went to the moon oh what a shill it's like oh because you just love nasa it's like i don't care about nasa specifically go back to that search that you had and look at the second link i think um no maybe not let me let me see if i i can find it and i can send it to you because i i sent it over well while while you search let me just fill the air with a couple scriptures proverbs chapter four verse seven says wisdom is the principal thing therefore get wisdom and with all thy getting get understanding and there's a reason why we are as vociferous as we are in this stream and you could argue maybe some vitriol but the reason why is because we want people to be smart we want people to get wisdom and especially if you're going to represent the scriptures the word of god as a professing christian you want to do so in a responsible manner proverbs chapter 18 says a fool hath no delight in understanding but that his heart may discover itself and you know one of the attributes of someone who's foolish or stupid in our society that's what we would call them they don't want to get understanding they don't want to face facts they don't want to learn and so you know the reason why you could argue that we are as aggressive on this as we are is just because of the fact that we want people to be smart especially like i said if they're going to profess christianity if they're going to appeal to scripture then you ought to be someone who has some wisdom it should be something that all of us try to attain and try to continue to grow in because at the end of the day this idea of like well let's just be a country bumpkin you know what i mean i'm not the sharpest drawer knife in the drawer and i can't read every word on the page no that's not how god wants us to be so we've we've i found the article that brings up and again i believe this was an indian um mission where they were sending their specific space lunar module dylan the chat says you could see the shadow of the flag well they took pictures see look at that you can see the pictures of the flag notice also see if you can zoom really into this image because it's kind of hard to see on the screen but if you zoom in on that image a little bit you can actually see the tracks in so scroll up yeah look at that do you see the tracks from the lunar rover see those little tracks that are yeah you can still see the tracks of where that lunar rover was driving around because again it doesn't have much it doesn't have an atmosphere and so like these things are kind of preserved in time and so you have the indian uh lunar module going overhead taking images taking pictures so that yeah the lunar module's there right there in the center there's the flag shadow there's the tracks and that's apparently where the rover went to to be you know sit so i mean again oh it's all fake photoshop it's all lies someone said oh you believe india went to the moon like they're all dumb and stuff like that but you know i was thinking about this way ben don't people in america get scammed by indians all the time i feel like you're an expert in this yeah they must have some kind of smarts right to be able to pull that well it's like okay india is so dumb but then they're scamming americans all the time you have a gift card we yeah you do it better than me yeah give us give us some go to go to home depot and go get a 50 gift card you need it right now but here's the thing this is what makes our stream complete i yes i've offended you know all indians now it's like okay indians that come over here they okay yeah a lot of them own 7-elevens okay but they're also doctors and computer programmers i was gonna say the computer you're in the computer programming world how many of them are indians you have a lot of them that get into that field and that's a smart field india still hasn't put a man on the moon only the united states so if you think about it the indians are still behind 1960s america okay so they haven't even arrived at the 1960s of america yet uh you know what are we oh 50 plus years past that point you know is it really that crazy to think that they're only six there's 60 plus years behind us in technology in that regard um or bravery or however you want to argue it yeah again why is every technology sector full of indians you know it's just silly actually are smart yeah of course they are so some of them obviously yeah some yeah you know they're very smart i want to give shout out to every indian i love i love every indian i hope they all get saved by believing i do i love i love indian people i hope that they believe the gospel yeah i mean i i don't like their food i don't like the smell of their food i don't really like their culture i don't like their country but that doesn't mean i can't believe they went to the moon okay and think about it as biased as i am against indian food for me to say that they went to the moon i mean it just it's just a fact at that point i'll take it against an indian don't change your mind no it's fine you know that this is like flat earth you know logic again it's like oh if you look into it i want to do it will you debate me on what indian food it's already over i already won all right i challenge you if you can get i challenge you to a debate on indian food okay well you already lost so next saturday right here let's do it no okay when it comes to this what was austin's best argument that's my response back to you pastor what was an argument you made that even made sense again this is what they want to say oh we falsify the r value we falsify the radius how show the experiment give us the the the repeatable results and we'll all do it we'll all do the same test it's like we we destroyed a flatter folks it's over that thing doesn't exist it's been nuked look this is what they'll say oh you got you know you you you misrepresented us on the stream and then you got your your yes man over here to just agree with you you could have put anybody in this seat it doesn't matter like most people don't believe it's a freaking flat disc okay my nine year old child would have won the nine year like no that's not a that's not an argument against what we did on the stream tonight you could have put anyone here and they would have agreed because we actually hold the majority position on this one okay let's read a few comments we'll wrap up robar said those maps are cool i agree don't you agree on the maps i mean i thought those were awesome yeah i thought the globes itself was pretty interesting i like this comment indian food is good in england well obviously commenters can lie you know obviously people can like bad things okay so obviously the kings of juda sometimes went and hung out with the kings of israel and you know they liked them but it just wasn't right see i'm trying to go up with a witty comeback but all the foods you like i like too so it's hard for me to to do that right i like good food you like good food and bad food so you just kind of you want to put it that way broad in your perspective you know you don't want to mix faith and works like i'm faith alone you have faith and works and so we got to get you back on the faith alone path sure he kept saying there wasn't video of stars this person says cook justin uh let me repeat this here he kept saying there wasn't video of stars from space and 24-hour antarctica but i just saw it on youtube yes that's what happens you can go to you tube and it'll debunk what they're saying because it's very very easy to do so always baptist says you can literally see satellites in very dark areas i've seen them when getting out of the city roblars i've lived in hanford nukes are real pastor shelly like this trade selector pastor shelly likes food that's popular even in podunk podunk and podunk podunk where he grew up i grew up in podunk i thought you're from new york well i was born there and then i was raised in canyon texas i don't know someone says owen doesn't believe in nuclear bombs not kidding that's that's crazy to me he said j tank says was his shirt getting more unbuttoned as the video went along i don't know i was trying i was trying not to observe that i guess you know my ignoring all the hey can i can i flat earth argument add one last thing yeah just as icing on the cake here for the flatter stuff because i i like aviation and you know you could take a look at the flight plans for several long-haul flights specifically the popular one to look at is and if i mispronounce this help me santiago is that right okay chili whatever santiago santiago i said to help me not laugh at me anyway uh you look at this the flight plan for the long-haul flight from santiago chile or chile however the hell it's supposed to be pronounced to sydney australia and what you'll notice is that in aviation they take the shortest points on a sphere and utilize that for their flight plan you can also observe this on flights from north america to asia as well which tend to go over the arctic additionally you look at flights from south america to johannesburg in africa and south africa specifically so you have these different long-haul flights that prove the earth is here because let's go back to the flight from chile south america exists well that's retarded you look at chile to sydney for example australia if the earth was flat you would notice the flight plan going over california all right you would you would have aircraft that would fly again because the earth is is a globe what they would be doing is they would be kind of flying like here to i don't know if you guys can see this but they would go from here to california then back if the earth is flat but that's not what they're doing because it is a sphere so they take the closest two points on a sphere and use that uh i don't think your argument makes sense because if the earth was a sphere wouldn't have to be bigger than this i mean how are we going to fit how could we be sitting on something this small ben yeah that's true i didn't think of that it has to be at least three times bigger than this okay i actually get the reference for once anyway i just wanted to bring up the flight plan proof evidence because it's one of my favorites well you can't observing flights and observing things is not evidence that's right i forgot about that youtube videos are the only thing that's evidence right but as long as they're pro flattering otherwise nasa their own words nasa is is fake otherwise in their own words we cannot accept it if it doesn't fit yeah we can't accept these results yes we can't accept these results well again if someone needs to go to antarctica to prove that the earth is a sphere and what we said is true they won't be convinced not willing to accept that i'm sorry that was the direct quote doesn't the bible say something about people being willingly ignorant yes yes uh like this this is similar obviously that's not the context of that passage but yeah when you say it's a similar ideology or a similar i think that it's it's definitely people who are willingly ignorant but i also do subscribe to the thought that this is the judgment of god okay it's the judgment of god on people for being morons is that he puts them under this delusion and folks that is what it is it is a delusion that they are under right now as a judgment of god you know there's no question in my mind and so what we're doing on this stream is trying to shake them out of their trance if it's even possible is to try to shake them out of their trance and we'll see maybe it works maybe it doesn't i don't know yeah i mean jesus talks about those whom he loves he rebukes and you know obviously making fun of people doesn't necessarily always fit the right um situation or it's not always appropriate but i think when you're this delusional and you have such bad ideas making fun of people works and here's the thing i've made fun of people for dumb views and they have changed their mind and the bible says rebuke a wise man and he will love thee so you know if i believe something stupid and someone makes fun of me and i end up changing my mind i shouldn't be mad at that person i should be like hey thanks for you know laughing me out of that right thanks for mocking me out of that um the biblical uh authors the prophets they mocked and ridiculed people the apostle paul made fun of people jesus made fun of people um when we have the prophet elijah he made fun of people it's not just ad hominem it's a a rhetoric tool to help show someone look you're you're so wrong it's laughable what you're saying is so bad that i can't help myself but just laugh and god laughs at people and he's laughing at their stupidity and instead of being a laughing stock you should just recognize that people are laughing at you it's probably you have something wrong you need to really check yourself and make sure that you're right now again obviously the world will laugh and scoff at jesus and christians and we get that but when it's virtually everyone you know you you've got some serious problems someone said that flat earth is inevitable it's it's it's dumb folks it's a psy-op they're tricking people it's a punishment from god for being on drugs or being stupid or something you really really i would love to see a someone do a study on how many flat earthers have smoked weed like what would be the crossover like what percentage of flat earthers have smoked weed in their life and it's like is this like brain damage in some in some ways because i wish you could have gotten that question out in the debate you know it's just it's just unfortunate that that would have been on ad hominem which it is it is a little bit in the sense that like you're attacking the character but it's also just me trying to genuinely figure out like why what's okay with these people you know what here's the thing about the stupid logical fallacy look i'm not saying logical fallacies don't have a place like we shouldn't learn them or something like that but you have to first of all understand what they actually are make sure you have the right definition and second it's up to the audience to determine whether someone's guilty of a logical fallacy it's up to the audience to make that determination and when you just spout them off one after the other and claim that's what your opponent is doing it sidetracks the conversation and again whether you think pastor shelley was guilty of 25 logical fallacies in a row does it make what he said untrue well again here's the thing that people don't understand about logical fallacies someone could bring up the idea of something being a logical fallacy and it's still true that's so exactly my point so you could say like oh well he appealed to an authority but the authority could be true and how far do you want to take that i appeal to authority all the time yeah but i'm just saying circular reasoning they say we're guilty of that i believe the bible because bible but you know they bring up all kinds of different reasons why something technically doesn't always fit perfect logic but it could still be true in the sense that they'll say like hey um this this person is a man okay they'll say like ben is a man and then you say so this other man is ben well that's not always true right isn't there some men that are not been yes couldn't it also be true that you point to someone and they're actually still been there's another been in the world there could be another ben yeah right so it's like you point out these these things and it's like okay well we can't know for sure that that's true it's not a hundred percent airtight but it still could be a legitimate reason or something to believe in hey i hate someone put this in the mold of counselors there's safety it's like hey when we have all these different people saying all the same things and this is what awesome wants to do well i know you have a hundred evidences why the earth is a sphere and heliocentric but i falsify the radius maybe you're wrong on that calculation buddy maybe you're getting that off somehow when we have so many clear evidences so much clear evidence of just all and again you don't have to be a rocket scientist you don't even have to be a biblical expert to understand these truths the five-year-old children know the shape of our earth and we have to realize this is not an intellectual argument typically i think it's a spiritual argument of people being blinded because we've already demonstrated how clear it is spiritual problem so when people have these views it kind of illustrates there's probably a bigger issue it's not really an intellectual issue it's it's almost like a spiritual issue or a pride issue or a punishment or a drug like there's something else under the surface on these on these particular issues and i'm not trying to just do that to net hominin we already proved it wrong we tried to be fair and and listen to their arguments they don't have any it's all just foolishness it's nonsense all right we could talk about this forever i'm i'm so done with flatter earth i don't want to talk about it if you come to me in person i'm just gonna be like watch the video and i'm never gonna get in your car what are your last thoughts i think this was a thorough repudiation of the flat earth idiocy and we went into great detail we went up one side and down the other and so i just appreciate the opportunity to be part of this adding some color commentary to the research that you did and i would invite you if this is going to sound like it's coming out of nowhere but if you're listening to this stream and you're not saved sbckjv.com please right now go watch the bible way to heaven because that is the supreme issue and that is what really matters is getting saved immediately what one more question what was of the things that we talked about and stuff what was the coolest point or something maybe you learned they can think of anything new yeah i mean i think the um fuko his uh pendulum experiment i thought was really cool um i i mean i it's okay it's a hard i'm not gonna french name right i thought it was japanese honestly i'm not going to try to pronounce that so i don't cuss on the air accidentally but there was a lot of good stuff i mean i really liked uh the part where you talked about the the star the starlight how it looks the star trails the star trails what about the finger thing was that i know it seems a little childish but it seems a little childish doesn't it kind of help you understand it's something that you don't realize till you do it like you don't really think about it until you do it it's it's very basic stuff but i appreciated that uh what you kind of brought up there um yeah i mean there was a lot of there was so much that you talked about but i think oh how about when you just showed map after map after map of antiquity over and over and over again disproving the idea that the spherical earth is some sort of modern invention by nasa or something like that when we could point to historical documents we could point to bibles one after the other showing this but if i'm going to pick one thing i really like your explanation and comparison of the creation story in genesis chapter one to proverbs chapter eight and how you show that proverbs chapter eight actually goes through a chronological order of creation and you could use proverbs eight to prove that the waters that are above the firmament are in fact clouds so that was really great stuff yeah i think i had discovered that a long time ago but i'd forgotten and then revisiting this topic refreshed me and i i just think it's amazing the video super cool of the circumnavigation of antarctica was great as well the video i love coby cotton the dude perfect one the video of dude perfect going into space was great as well the video of the sun being in the air daylight for four straight months the time lapse video was also intriguing there was so much yeah and again it's all fake it's all fake ben everything evidently you can't even trust mcdonald's it's real the food is real hey i'm with you on everything that we just learned is fake we can talk forever that's gonna pretty much do it for us check us out this tuesday because we're gonna have the daniel series episode one it's gonna release everyone's got a perspective people you need to get the baptist bias by flat hearts