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Andrew Wakefield and we're really excited to have him come on and talk about a new movie he's about to have released protocol 7 we're gonna go ahead and join him now dr. Wakefield it's great to have you here on the show Jonathan thank you so much for having me on and I want to make sure we're getting you up there on the screen maybe I don't know there we go sorry about that so thanks so much for joining us and you have a new movie coming out protocol 7 watch it tell us a little bit about this film certainly well as a physician and and someone who'd been been involved in vaccine safety research and the failings of the pharmaceutical industry and the regulators over many years people would come to me because of the position I'd taken from from the CDC from the FDA from the Department of Health in England or from the industry and they would say we have done a terrible thing we can no longer live with this and here is the evidence and so I became a repository for for whistleblowers these some whistleblowers and these I would the time when I was still practicing I would pass these on to lawyers to be dealt with according to their merits but they would make amazing stories and one of the things that struck me over the years is that there was no accountability none at all that people would could do the most egregious things and they would just move on to another job and the public and particularly that this case the children would be left to damaged children we left to pick up the pieces and that was not good enough and so with this film I it was a story in that in that mode it was a whistleblower who came to me many years ago and told me the most extraordinary story of fraud at Merck in relation to the mumps vaccine as part of the measles mumps rubella vaccine and I decided that it was time to make a film to tell the world because this case would be likely in some way to settle without anyone hearing about it with three three lines at page 5 of the New York Times and no one would be aware of what happened in the interests of profit and certainly not in the interests of children and therefore we had to move forward take a risk if you like and the unique thing about this film Jonathan and unless someone corrects me otherwise is that the majority of films like this that are made whistleblower stories like Erin Brockovich is that the crime is committed the court case resolves the book is written and the movies made this film is being released right in the heat of battle right in the middle of the litigation which is currently taking place in Pennsylvania so a very exciting story and one which I would absolutely absolutely compel your listeners to go and watch because it will it really will change their lives and their understanding of what is going on behind the scenes yeah I find that really interesting I'm kind of curious when you talked about this whistleblower coming to you what what year is this or what was the timeline when they this is back in about two two thousand and three or four I mean a long time ago okay wow yeah good after you know and it is and they they've done everything they can to delay the case and to string it out and to take it out of the public consciousness and and I just decided enough was enough the same faulty vaccine is being used the same vaccine which they fraudulently misrepresented is still being used and the people who are paying the price for this that is the children who are receiving this vaccine are not getting any kind of justice and that that's unacceptable well and it's kind of a shame that a film like this it's very difficult to share the information about it it's not like mainstream media is probably blasting your film right now I'm sure it's something where you kind of have to send it out on maybe alternative media or alternative news and talk to different individuals and kind of raise awareness for the film itself have you seen any major publications promoting your film or even talking about it no but you know it's a very very interesting years ago I released faxed and I don't know whether your viewers remember wax was about a fraud at the CDC in respect of MMR and it was it got into Tribeca Film Festival which is a very eminent film festival and then it was it was banned it was withdrawn it was censored and Robert De Niro disapproved of this and he went on the Good Morning America and the Today Show the following week to talk about Tribeca and all he spoke about was the film that didn't play VAX and he said that we shouldn't have done that we should not have censored this film everybody should see it and it exploded worldwide so I think that they've learned their lesson from from that and they're maintaining a very low profile but certainly the influence of pharma upon mainstream media is considerable indeed the nightly news networks would not exist without the pharmaceutical industry in its current form so it it is going to get out there not least of which is through shows like yours as part of the alternative media if you like which actually do reach people now people do listen in very large numbers and are increasingly shunning the mainstream media because it's not giving people the truth and so that plus the experience of COVID which has opened so many people's eyes to the the insidious relationship between the pharmaceutical companies and government agencies and the profit over people motives that people are listening and I think it's going to have a huge audience. Well I know I saw VAX and I feel like a lot of people talked about that I saw it back in 2016 some friends actually were like hey you got to come over you got to watch this film and I was already very anti vaccination just personally that was kind of my own personal beliefs at the time and so I was definitely interested in the film really enjoyed the film and you know it's kind of interesting to me to see someone who is has a medical background and you're a doctor now this is what number film is this like number three or something no this is number number six Oh number six now you're a filmmaker how do you make that transition I'm kind of interested like because that's that's not typical right someone is a physician to make the transition into maybe a documentary film or filmmaker how do you make that transition well it's a very good question and I get asked this a lot you know I what they did because of the stance I'd taken they and people have learned this through COVID what happens to doctors and scientists who stand up to the system who challenge the you know the stock price of the pharmaceutical companies then there is no mercy and that's what happened to me I had my license taken away and I came to America as a sort of as a professional and political exile and continued the work in this great country and eventually they managed to shut me down they are very very powerful and there is no price you will not pay for taking against them and it was a very different world in those days this cancel culture was virtually unknown and it really has exploded in the face of COVID but I had to go on serving these children somehow and I wanted to know how to do it and I sort of asked myself and I had these stories from whistleblowers and I thought you know what I've always I love film I've time to turn them into movies and I started screenwriting in 2004 I started you know taking directors courses reading everything I could read I sort of applied my academic training to the study of filmmaking and and got more and more into it and this was my first full-length feature film you know and based upon the screenplay in fact I wrote the screenplay with Terry Rossio and people say who's Terry Rossio but Terry Rossio wrote little-known films like Shrek and Pirates of the Caribbean Aladdin, Godzilla vs. King Kong and things like this so a man at the top of his game and a great friend and we made this and we filmed it it was a wonderful experience I enjoyed it enormously it's the essence of collaboration and a sort of mutual goal it was fantastic and some wonderful actors so there's no going back I think I love feature films now and we'll continue to make them so that's that's really how it came about yeah I want to pull up pull up the IMDB I think on the screen while we're sitting here and looking at it but you definitely this new film it's kind of like a drama based on true events if I'm describing it accurately but it's got some pretty big name actors in it I was looking and I recognized immediately and I don't know exactly what his character is maybe a CEO or a major manager of Merc I'm assuming but Eric Roberts is a pretty famous actor always that villain character yeah he's a good villain you know I'm kind of interested like when it comes to you know this film and everything is it your partner that's kind of you know spearheading this and bringing a lot of these actors are you working with them or are you on set like what does that look like well no so we sat down and we decided right who do we need I'd written the characters and I had a sense of who I wanted and among them were as you say established actors like Matthew Marsden from from Rambo and Black Hawk Down and and Eric Roberts and then there were some new discoveries and I want to mention just two of those and one was it was was Rachel Whittle and Rachel is in Louisiana and she came to me through one of my producers Joey Versatka with my two wonderful producers on the show and she had done some small parts previously and we got in response to our you know our casting we got two and a half thousand young women responded saying you know we'd like to send in reels of the particular scenes we sent them and it was very tricky I mean two and a half thousand and some cases very very good actors and she stood out head and shoulders above the others absolutely extraordinary her preparation her everything about her and so she is someone to really watch out for in the future and the other one is a young chap who plays the sort of whipping boy at Merck Harrison Tipping who is an English stage actor who came to this is his first movie and again gives an excellent performance so it was a joy working with them and they made my life very very easy and we we have a dare I say had a great film I really mean that and I I don't say that lightly and we just in the last week have won 17 film awards so it Wow we're very very pleased with that things are going very well and it's based on a true story I know you mentioned at some point about the legal battle is that still ongoing what is this okay so it is well so the film is actually still alive and well in a sense so I guess the film's kind of covering the first part of this this journey in the story but we're gonna have to continue living it well there is the opportunity for a sequel but not least of which we tell a complete story we tell the story that in perhaps in some ways should play out right if this case is filed under the False Claims Act where the government has been defrauded the CDC purchases this defective vaccine knowingly defective vaccine for its children vaccines for children's program so the government has been defrauded by that is the allegation by Merck however the problem is this that for political reasons I'm quite sure in order to not cast aspersions upon the safety of vaccines and put the public off and all kinds of reasons profit among them the the case they said that the judge and Merck didn't defend in any way the in any material way the allegations of fraud they said the CDC continued or the government continued to purchase this vaccines therefore it wasn't relevant you know we could have if the government really felt strongly about this fraud then they could have done something about it they could have stopped purchasing the vaccine in other words it the fraud is not material and so this issue of materiality is what the judge ruled on yes there was fraud yes Merck did all these things in my opinion but it wasn't material because the government went on buying it now the government turned around said no we had no choice you've bundled these things up into measles mumps rubella and we need to give children vaccines against measles and rubella and we have no other source so you've got us with our hands tied behind our back we've got to buy your vaccine despite the fact that the mumps component may be defective is defective and so but the judge didn't buy into that and so now it's gone to appeal and we will that will play out I think towards the end of June and then it may well go on either to have the case continued and go to jury trial which it won't do but all of this made me realize how important the film was because here was a here was the possibility the very strong possibility that for political reasons Merck could get off the hook they could get away with this they could get away with this outrageous behavior and I cannot allow that to happen knowing what I know and knowing how it's affecting people out there across this country that that can't be allowed to happen and so the story must be told whatever the consequences for us well it looks really gripping I want to play the trailer here for a minute and get everybody to kind of have a sample here and then we can kind of talk about it a little bit more but you know I definitely think it's really important to get the information out there and to talk about it and I think that you know court cases like this legal battles like this help some people recognize this is a real battle it's not just you know somebody just giving their random opinion or something but rather there is real-life implications there are people fighting this and so let's go ahead and play this trailer here for protocol seven we oh give me just I guess give them just a second I want to play the trailer from I think it's from IMDB they have the movie just a couple minutes go ahead and play it if you can I don't think you're right there we go then we got him home and he crashed right in front of us apparently we're in the midst of a month's outbreak another some people some very important people are saying our vaccine does not work you're gonna want to read this we have a US monopoly and a major share the world market for MMR and we own the only one that works except that it does not we all sign contracts check company interests above all others make it work they fake the data it's all there they cheated on every level you said you're a lawyer family and you want to understand why let me see it they couldn't get the result they wanted so they re-engineered it objective to improve the vaccine find something that gets the result they want fix it general ninety six percent the vaccine sales were all out of a job has failed you need to get what's going on here is he in danger internal memos were released quote we may have to seek them out and destroy them where they live she really knows and yes he is in danger what about it's all your son and every other son and daughter depends on whether or not you choose to live by their rules incineration immediately can we trust him to keep it together were you aware some tests included the weakened strain happily and did you approve I guess so were you aware of the labs failure to demonstrate efficacy of the mumps vaccine a level required by the FDA no to respond to the FDA's concern and leave a dangerous vaccine on the market dangerous object strongly recommended booster shots of course you did what are they got right nothing is what they got would you please identify this document for us please identify exhibit two for me we've got stuff exhibit three this is a competition done objection these were shredded it's a protocol they've got the sheets they've got the evidence I was told they didn't have no one will ever believe them again well it was really gripping you know it's kind of funny to me because lawsuits in general are not very exciting they can be really boring but the film itself is capturing a lot of intense moments some really good acting it looks like they're I'm excited to not only get to find out the information but even be somewhat entertained while learning about this maybe even horrified I don't know but how do you feel about the trailer I love the trailer I kind of get goosebumps every time I see it and you make a very good point because being a filmmaker your job is to entertain unless you entertain first and foremost you don't have an audience if you entertain people and you then tell them a story factual content where you get them sitting forward in their seats wanting to know more then you have an audience and so we have to make a film that primarily entertains it has to be factually correct has to be honest has to tell a great story but it must grip people they must want to know more about the story so yeah well I think it looks great it looks fantastic I really enjoyed the VAX film and it was more of a documentary style from my memory but this is this is a little bit more of a drama and I'm excited to kind of see how it unfolds and and what's going on getting more information about the legal situation and you know the thing that's hard for some people to realize is this is real people this is real mothers this is real children you know to lose your medical license is a big deal I know that you know a lot of people want to be doctors I think in reading your biography you came from a family of doctors isn't that correct your your family your parents were doctors as well six generations six in or so doctor was probably a big deal right we all trained at the same medical school St. Mary's Hospital in London my brother cousins nieces nephews have all gone into medicine so it's in our blood and it was a big deal but you you have a choice and this is you come to the crossroads and the crossroads are you know the Dean of the medical school said to me if you continue this vaccine safety research it will not be good for your career and that kind of made me angry made me determined to work twice as hard at it because what about the children hang on you know I don't work for the drug companies I don't work for the government I work for the person sitting across the desk from me whose life has been destroyed and so you reach that crossroads and the decision is do I work for these people or do I work for this child that's an easy choice the consequences and not so easy to deal with but they're just they're part of what you know you the decision you've made and they're part of why you signed up to do this job in the first place so I in that respect have no no regrets and I I'm loving the opportunity now to tell these stories in film and with the help of people like you getting it out there through alternative media if you like is so powerful so so powerful and and I one thing I would strongly recommend I want this film to play in every town in a North America that has a movie theater and we can do that now we can do this by theatrical on demand and that means that anyone anyone can go and go on to the website protocol7.movie and you scroll down to host a screening and you can host a screening you can at no cost to you you say I want to host a screening gather the company GATHR will find you a movie theater in your town and all you've got to do is get people your friends your family your fellow activists your fellow church members to come to that movie on a particular night they usually do nights which are sort of low you know the Monday Tuesday Wednesday they're not full so they will sell you the theater or give you the theater and if you get a certain number of tickets sold to your friends family etc then you tip the theater you own it for the night and you can play the movie the movie will screen so everyone can have their host their own screening of this across America so please please please go to protocol7.movie and learn how to do it it's a wonderful way of getting the movie out there and I want this film to be the kind of success that really meaningful films like sound of freedom have been I think it can do the same kind of thing and then what that enables us to do is go on and make the next movie right yeah I got to see sound of freedom in theaters is a great film and we've even art ourselves have hosted a few screenings private screenings at movie theaters and I think it's probably a process that a lot of people need to be aware of just because good films these days you sometimes have to do it yourself and you kind of have to get out there and be an activist and I know on your site here you've got several theaters that have already kind of signed up and then there's opportunity for people to do their own screenings and so highly encourage people to participate in this project in this film you know this this topic is is definitely near and dear to my heart because back in 2014 I was we were pregnant with our first child and so I actually started doing research on these issues and trying to figure out you know what I believed and what I kind of wanted to do and it seemed pretty clear that you know there was a lot of talk about how great you know MMR and all these different vaccines are but they didn't really want to show you the evidence they didn't really want to talk about any possible negative side effects or any issues and that was definitely alarming to me that you know if it was such great science then why don't we have all these double-blind studies why aren't we just showing the evidence why don't we talk about the adverse reactions and I even know someone asked a question in here and we kind of just want to get your perspective but someone was just kind of genuinely asking do you think that the MMR vaccine is safe and just kind of to go beyond that do you think that all vaccines are safe or is there you know what's kind of your view when it comes to just vaccinations in general well put it aside the issue of pro and anti-vaccine and simply ask yourself a scientific question and that is have the definitive safety studies been done which allow you to contend that they are or are not safe and of course those would be those definitive studies are a large long-term randomized comparison of children receiving the vaccine with those not receiving the vaccine and for the childhood vaccines on the schedule those studies have not been done let me give you one example hepatitis B vaccine which is given to infants one day old infants on the recommendation of the CDC and the is it's really for a disease which is a disease of intravenous drug abusers and sexually promiscuous okay that is not for children at all right those the studies the safety studies for that vaccine how long did they last how long would you want them to last we'd want them to last a very very long time those the safety studies for the Merck product the Merck hepatitis B vaccine was five days five days so if your child fell ill on the day six it was nothing to do with the vaccine for the GlaxoSmithKline vaccine it was four days this wasn't even done this study in children of the appropriate age not in neonates it was done in older children and there were no controls that is not science that is not science and so one cannot say that they are safe and effective based upon the existing science irrespective of how I might personally feel about vaccines as a scientist that is what I would demand and that is what is missing you know I'm interested also there's an article I want to see if we can get it pulled up but you know I kind of hear this mantra that there's no link between any vaccinations and autism and you know I think that that's a primarily a lot of the angst against you is is saying that there may be a correlation or that this may have some relation and some people say that there's there's never been proven and things like that and you know here's an article that's from CBS News and it's talking specifically about how a family was awarded 1.5 million dollars in a vaccine autism related injury and what I found interesting about this specific article is kind of down below I don't know if you can scroll down it says like read Cheryl Atkinson's 2008 report but there's a paragraph right below that it says in acknowledging Hannah's injuries the government said vaccines aggravated an unknown mitochondrial disorder Hannah had which didn't quote cause her autism but quote resulted in it and I just felt like that was interesting wording it was kind of tricky wording that okay this this young girl is getting paid by the government for a link to autism due to a vaccine injury and they say well didn't cause it it just simply resulted in it and I guess from a parent's parental perspective I don't even think that they're hearing that I do mothers really care whether it causes it or results in it I'm just kind of curious what your thoughts are you're absolutely right this kind of government double-speak is is obscene it's absolutely ridiculous and it's an insult to the intelligence of of parents it really is I mean it firstly this is not a mitochondrial defect it is a conserved genetic variant that at some stage conferred an advantage it's not a defect at all it's just that some people have this particular genetic makeup others have a different does that put them at risk of reacting badly to a vaccine so that would be the natural course of the science that should have flowed from this what should have happened is the CDC should have commissioned the definitive science to answer this question they didn't they ran a they ran as far away as fast as they possibly could well and you know again some people are just unaware that there's programs like VAERS there's other ways in which vaccine injuries are reported and I think that VAERS actually got a little bit of attention due to COVID because a lot people heard about it since then now I actually had written a I think I I told them to go to the wrong I had actually preached a couple sermons on this but I also want to go to somewhere else go to the God resource calm article that you see if you can get that pulled up yeah scroll down and go to the citations so I wrote an article about vaccination in 2015 and I put some research in here and one of the things that I found kind of click on that citations button so scroll down a little bit probably like number four it's a little bit further gap right about there and I don't know if we can pull up that chart a little bit cleaner verse number six actually if you just click the link yeah click that bottom one not the yeah the bottom right there the very but yep exactly and then scroll down a little bit to the first chart so if you look at this specific chart it actually talks about the infant mortality rate in developed nations and America is actually 32nd on this list I believe if we scroll all the way down a little bit what is the number there it's kind of I mean it's fuzzy for me but it's pretty much at the bottom almost you know several other developed nations have a much better infant mortality rate and in this same article if you scroll down a little bit further yeah see if you can scroll down to the next yeah so the United States was 34 in this particular this at 6.2 scroll down a little bit further in this article if you can and I think that it has yes the number of doses for these particular countries as well or the number of vaccines that they would receive as a requirement and you kind of notice a pattern and it's a loose pattern but albeit the developed countries that have the lowest infant mortality rates also seem to have generally speaking the lowest number of required vaccinations now again maybe that's just a complete coincidence but at the same time to me you know it could be related as well and it doesn't seem like anybody's bringing this up about how the infant mortality rates higher in the United States and we have a higher number I think we might even have the highest number of required vaccinations for children to and under I just found that this information was kind of was interesting to say the least I don't know have you seen any kind of data on this or is this something you've ever kind of looked into as far as the infant mortality rate and considering like the number of doses of vaccination that children receive yes my focus has been largely on childhood developmental disorders but exactly the same applies for infant mortality rates adverse outcomes across the board have this correlation to vaccine doses now that doesn't mean causation but what they it does is to it should light a fire under the regulators to establish whether or not correlation and causation do lead us to cause or not if only to put the public's mind at rest but they haven't and when they lie as they did lie in vax it takes on a whole new meaning because as a student of human behavior what I look at is do I trust this person or not do I believe what this patient is telling me or not and when you see someone lie it's a visceral reaction it's not a cerebral reaction you look at them and you know instinctively that they are not being honest with you or on the contrary I can trust this person and I watch them lie and it's when people need to lie they've got something to hide and they've certainly got something to hide and that that I find even perhaps more persuasive than the positive evidence is their need to lie which is what they did with the the MMR autism study that was featured in vax so I have grave misgivings about this in terms of safety and efficacy in the day the deeper you dig that the worse it gets and this is something that you know people like Bobby Kennedy found when he first got involved in this he just couldn't let it go because it was so compelling this link between neurodevelopmental disorders and and vaccines and so we will get an answer to it we will but we have to force the issue and what we must never do is make decisions based in fear so with this film we put it out so Merc come after us well they don't but if they do that's just the price we pay for telling the truth and but we must never ever make decisions based in fear why I like that advice and you know again when it comes to this topic I feel like the truth fears no investigation you know some people might ask or question like why would they lie about this stuff or you know what's the incentive to hurt children and I don't think that anybody genuinely wants to hurt children I you know I don't I don't believe that at all but I do think that there's a monetary issue here that kind of clouds the waters and whenever I again I when I was doing some of my research I noticed that when it comes to political lobbying a lot of these pharmaceutical companies are giving large sums of income to lobbying specifically and this is public information I think I have a chart I want to see if we can get it pulled up in 2010 and again I wrote this article in 2015 so the data is kind of around the timeline but in 2010 and quarter one health lobbying it's this public record information you can see which companies gave to political you know individuals such as you see Pfizer giving 4 million you see Merck giving 3.2 million you see GlaxoSmithKline giving 2 million political lobbying in 2010 and then if you scroll down a little bit in 2011 then the government also issued publicly available information contracts to companies as far as the the manufacturing and you'll notice the same virtually the same kind of companies GlaxoSmith is awarded a 786 million dollar contract Merck is awarded a 1.7 billion dollar contract Pfizer's given a 1.6 billion dollar contract and again you know you could just say that's coincidence again or that's just interesting but there's big bucks and this is this is numbers from 2011 I can't even imagine what the numbers in the contracts are for COVID or for some of these other potential health contracts so there's a lot of money if if it was found out that these manufacturers are doing something dishonest insincere or causing harm when they shouldn't I mean this is gonna cost a lot of money to certain individuals is that not true exactly right I think that there is a huge amount of money at stake and in fact in this particular case Merck were faced with a dilemma they had a vaccine that didn't work the mumps vaccine and they could either say right we're gonna pull this from the market we're going to go and develop a new mumps vaccine that is safe and effective and we're going to prove it during doing the appropriate science or the alternative is we're going to just change the numbers we're going to fake the data in a way that give us the result that enable us to convince the FDA to renew our license or protect our license and our US monopoly will continue and we'll make a lot of money and so that commercial expedient was what in fact you know dictated their actions at the end of the day and and they did the wrong thing they did the wrong thing but and why is this important you may say well what if a vaccine doesn't work how does that make it dangerous and the problem with mumps is this that mumps in children is a trivial disease that's widely acknowledged mumps in post-pubertal young students young adults is not a trivial disease it can cause testicular inflammation and sterility or ovarian inflammation or meningitis at a much higher rate than meningitis than in children so if you have a vaccine that only works for a limited amount of time or not at all then you makes us people susceptible to mumps again when they're older when it's a more dangerous disease so a vaccine that doesn't work makes mumps a more dangerous disease and Merck knew this and yet they continued so it's safety and efficacy protectiveness are inextricably linked in the context of mumps and this is why the thing that is a theme that is bought out in the film very clearly so that people understand that and that's that's basically because contracting the disease and building natural immunity is different than the theory behind why vaccinations give protection is that correct yes indeed and we know that with these infections like measles mumps one one exposure to the natural infection as a child leaves to protection for life you are protected from that disease for life that is natural immunity when the vaccines were introduced we were promised that it would be the same it would be the same as natural immunity but it wasn't of course why well not least of which is because these are these are respiratory viruses measles there is a respiratory virus suddenly we're changing the whole course of nature and man's interaction with this virus by injecting it into the skin bypassing an immune system in the lungs that's been set up specifically to protect us against this virus so why are we surprised that it doesn't give the same kind of immunity why are we surprised and then we're giving not one virus but three viruses at the same time in a way that the immune system has never seen it it's never seen measles mumps rubella immediately at the same time and it's not going to respond in the same way but these there have been so many assumptions by the authorities about these live viral agents which are exquisitely adapted to survive and you know mutate and change and come back in some other form and one thing that this will teach us is that nature is all powerful and if we think we can get the upper hand and exploit these viruses then we have we have a real lesson to learn and if we didn't learn it with COVID then we're in big trouble well and specifically you know I can think of how my mom would tell me that she would when I was a two she made me go to a pox party is what they would call him and and I know that's not necessarily the MMR but we're talking about chickenpox specifically but the idea was that that exposure at a young age was less severe and I would have lifetime immunity and so they were she was like purposely kidding me sick just and of course I don't remember at two years old I have no idea you know I just have to trust that my mother was telling me the truth but I'm sure you know of course she would she wouldn't just make up a story like that but of course there was an idea especially back then that you know you go ahead and if anybody has a chickenpox get all the toddlers and make them play with them and so they'll contract this disease and I think that kind of is a similar belief or kind of what you're describing here that perhaps contracting some of these diseases or issues as a baby may actually be better in the long term of a particular individual is that am I kind of describing that accurately very much and I remember chickenpox measles part is yes can we go back you showed a graph in the paper that you'd written there was a graph of declining mortality in the United States well I yes show the show the vaccine one first because because I think this is an important point and what's interesting to me is whenever I looked up research that's like the pro vaccine like their their articles this is typically what they would show and they would show something like see here's vaccination has helped reduce global cases of mumps measles and rubella and and there's a lot of different articles like this in fact if you go there was another one I had that was like the immunized org I believe they have a chart and it shows how after vaccination everything's reduced 99 percentile I think it's the first link in that article that I had written in in the back if you can go to it but you see a conglomerate of posters like this yeah go all the way at the top and then click on that no this one this one that's the one I want to yeah this is such an important so 99% reduction in all of these specific diseases and they talk about how and from 1960 to now if we focus and highlight just one specific situation which is talking about measles or something like that they would say measles you know is 1963 the vaccine was introduced and they'll say oh we've got a 99% reduction now go to that chart that dr. Wakefield was was mentioning because I think this is an important point you know if you look at this chart if you look at this information it sounds good right like hey there's been a 99% reduction but then if you roll back the clock and you look this is from the 1900 all the way to 1984 and they show the measles vaccine introduced well the mortality rate specifically doesn't seem affected by the vaccine directly it seems like it's arbitrary like an arbitrary line we could just say Woodstock happened in 1963 and it just seems as related but I do want to get your opinion like on a chart like this you know you're you're a medical doctor you're someone that studied this stuff what is this you know what is it this is you draw from this this is a fascinating graph okay but this is the kind of data when measles is widely recognized for what it was in other words doctors were able to diagnose it and so we can trust the credibility of this this data is being unbiased now you would see the same trend in any developed Western country the same graph pertains to the United Kingdom now what this shows is mortality from measles over time before the vaccine ever came in you can see the effect of the vaccine when it did come in this is absolutely fascinating because what this shows is that over time naturally measles was killing fewer and fewer and fewer children it was becoming a milder and milder and milder disease now what would have happened here's the first question of scientists would ask is what would have happened if we'd never introduced the vaccine right this trend of simply decayed to zero would measles become so mild as it was doing that we wouldn't see any mortality from measles so forget number of measles cases measles still occurred but it was no more than a cold no more than a cold in children that's what was happening here that's what this graph is telling but we had to interfere we had to intervene we've got the technology we can make money out of it whatever the motive and so they interfere with the vaccine and then they show you a graph of measles cases what this shows is the effect of natural herd immunity this decay in mortality measles becoming less and less severe a milder milder disease is natural immunity and that was the kind of thing that was perpetuated by the really the reasons for this are detailed they are in part because of a general improvement in immunity due to sanitation and fresh water and in part due to the pattern of exposure to the virus this is because more and more children were being exposed to the virus when for example they went to school when they were young when they were able to deal with the virus in a particular way and this has now changed and it's changed because we've shifted the age of measles so when measles does come back now it affects older people whose immunity is waned because the vaccine wore off and babies who historically under the age of one were protected by maternal immunity their mothers who had had natural measles gave them very good immunity mothers who have been vaccinated against measles do not give their babies good immunity so under the age of one babies born now are not protected against measles and that is a very precarious situation because that's where mortality is greatest so vaccination has destroyed natural herd immunity and here is the effect of natural herd immunity in that graph that is an extraordinary powerful powerful effect of nature and because we thought we should interfere and did we've messed that whole thing up and that so people really need to understand the history of measles as you point out to really gauge what has gone on here well and of course you know you bring up the idea that sanitation improved overall cleanliness hospital standards just the habits of people have changed over time and and I know that none of those are the reason why measles dropped because you can't make money on any of those ideas and so it definitely had to be the vaccine because that's the only way you can make money but you know when it comes to these this this information it's not shareable I mean I preached a sermon on this in 2018 called vaccination snake oil and I you know I kind of brought up things like this this point and that that chart and that graph and it was censored and you know it it was one of the first things that was kind of censored on YouTube censorship really hadn't taken off and at that time and it's interesting to me because you know predating that is what you mentioned how Robert Nero had a hand in kind of getting your film removed from a particular film festival talking about this issue and it does seem like the censorship works because I know family members friends you know whenever I said you know I'm kind of skeptical of some of these things I don't know that I want my children to be vaccinated necessarily and I was looked at as being you know a crazy person very ill-informed anti-science anti history and I'm I'm trying to talk to these people I'm saying I feel like I was using science and history to come to the conclusion I did I wasn't I wasn't rejecting science and history I was rather trying to use those to combat that theory because in my mind if someone knocked on my door and said I have this magic potion that's gonna protect your children can we inject it into them you know you would have to really have a lot of evidence on your side to try and convince me that that was necessary and especially considering from a historical perspective you know it's not like vaccination has been for the last thousand years this is a more relatively new phenomenon in in health and so it's not natural it's not something that everybody just does naturally it's something that is done through the medium of pediatricians and these other institutions and you know what's interesting to me is when I talked to my pediatrician about this they said we're gonna drop you as a client I said if you don't if you don't do the vaccination schedule as dictated we will drop you as a client and so they literally dropped us and I found out that anywhere from 40 to 60 percent of income of pediatricians is attributed directly to vaccination and so you know it definitely it definitely there's a lot of resistance to questioning these things just just wanting to know what's going on and not wanting to just fall you know in their footsteps and I know there's a lot of fear my wife especially there was a lot of fear put on her like your children's gonna die your child's gonna die immediately if you don't get these vaccinations or you're not gonna be able to participate in normal life and go to public school and be a part of government programs and people are gonna think you're weird and you know a lot of that didn't necessarily affect me but it affected my wife and I think it affects a lot of people when we talk about the social stigma and for you specifically it seems like when you put pressure was put on you you kind of said well I'm gonna research this even harder can you kind of talk to the social stigma here and and maybe like the feeling that mothers have when it comes to these issues I can and I'm so grateful that you brought it up because the other part of this film is the arc of the story of the heroine a mother who cannot have children for one reason or another and adopts a child who is then subsequently vaccine-injured and this mother is the amalgam if you like the agglomeration of all of the mothers I've spoken to the thousands of mothers I've spoken to over the last 30 years and so many of them have said I just knew when I went in and I did this and the doctor took them away or the nurse took them away I knew in my gut that this was wrong and that the power of that maternal intuition is extraordinary and it's been a guiding light in my in my medical practice to listen to mothers because mothers know their children unlike anyone else and the pediatricians have tried to usurp this more so I think in America than the UK but most certainly tried to usurp that power and say no no no you don't understand your child as well as I do even though I've never met them before or met them once it's absolute nonsense the hubris the arrogance of that is extraordinary and so here we have this relationship which has been forged over millions of years of the evolution of this mother maternal child bond mothers know their children and so when they say I took my child to be vaccinated I just felt at the time this was wrong and this has happened as a consequence of that I believe they're related then I take that extremely seriously and that the part played by the mother in this film really exemplifies that she faces conflict for every single thing she does by the kind of pushback that you've had pushback from the doctor pushback from the pediatrician pushback from the psychologist or psychiatrist pushback from her own mother pushback from her husband in particular who dismisses as often is the case in real life the mother's instinct does not appreciate the power of that instinct so one of the key messages of this film is for mothers to seize that power back really to trust in it to trust in that small voice that is saying to you do this or don't do this because you know best now why why is this and you can invoke God you can invoke this extraordinary bond that they have because they were once one they were once one body and they will be inseparable forever but it is nonetheless as real as I am talking to you and it's been such a powerful influence on my medical practice and I tried to do credit to that to honor that in this film and so that's my message to to mothers out there you regain that power you seize that power back you keep it because it's yours and it does not belong to doctors and it is up to doctors to be sufficiently humbled to to listen to that and to take note of it and to act according to accordingly well I agree this wholeheartedly that mothers you know have a special intuition about their children and I think a lot of it comes from love and I think that if we can get if we can have mothers just love their children enough they can face all kinds of foes like you mentioned I think that's a powerful part of this film the idea that a mother is kind of seeing many people come against her whether that be internally externally because sometimes especially on a journey like this in our current culture there's a lot of resistance I know with COVID there was a lot of internal conflict between families on you know vaccination or not or how to treat that particular illness and to me timing sometimes is everything and especially with a film and I think that it seems like with COVID specifically a lot of people have kind of awoken to the idea that maybe anti-vaxxers aren't as weird and horrible as Wikipedia makes them out to be and that maybe there is something to this and and so I I find that the timing of this film seems like a great opportunity to come on the heels of a lot of skepticism to come alongside with a reasoned approach and say yeah there is something to you know these internal instincts you know I for me probably the most influential thing for me when it came to making the decision is in the Bible Jesus said they that be whole need not a physician and I really took those words to heart and I thought you know if my baby's whole it just doesn't feel right to just purposely give them several different diseases you know if they come into him in contact naturally then so be it you know I can't I'm not gonna put my kid in a plastic suit bubble and hide them from the world but at the same time I don't know that I have to purposefully give them any kind of disease or illness and and just hope for the best and so you know to me that verse was a guiding light and you know I really think that there's a lot of people kind of waking up to some of the issues here do you feel like the timing of this film may have been purposeful or is it just kind of it just works for you guys or you know can you speak to the timing of this film and then just kind of what's going on in the culture right now I think so many things have happened in my life that that have been taking me in this direction it would be naive and premature to assume that they were not some not purposeful in some way I yes I think that the timing is is extraordinary particularly coming on the back of COVID and the I think COVID would turn out to be one of the biggest mistakes they ever made in terms of the lies the distortion and the consequences that an extraordinary number of deaths that came about because they denied people safe and effective treatments because they wanted a vaccine and vaccine only agenda it had to succeed and therefore they were prepared to lose a lot of people along the way in order to you know essentially profit and that's tragic and also the what they said about the vaccine it continues to unravel none of the promises that were made have been kept they were naive to have ever made them because they had no understanding really of what they were doing so people are ready for this kind of film it's not just I know Peter McCullough who is one of the great stalwarts very brave brave physician over 700 publications as a cardiologist and who has come to the understanding through science that vaccines are not safe firstly he's thought it was the COVID shot now he knows it goes beyond that that listening to someone like Peter McCullough who the system has systematically tried to destroy is a consequence of the position he's taken because it's so powerful because it represents science because that's undeniable he's published far more than all his critics when that happens then the world comes to a point where it says okay you know I know Peter McCullough I've read his papers if he says this is the case then I'm there's a case to be answered and I think that that is happening and it is reinforced by this kind of films I think timing is extraordinary for this it is very fortuitous but it need we need to capitalize on it we need to write what I mean by that is we need to take seize this opportunity to get people to watch the film don't stand by and just passively say if it comes to a theater near me and maybe I'll go and watch it or I'll wait to its streams on television no get to the movie theater hire the movie theater through gather through the website go to protocol seven number seven dot movie and please please please make sure that every town in America screens this movie and gives people the opportunity to see it and make up their own minds yeah and we want to share the information even beyond the film and you know continue to get it out there I know I saw a film called died suddenly that also talked about some of the issues with specifically the COVID shots and I think that the COVID shots are kind of unique in the sense that they have a little bit different methodology as far as how they're structured because I believe the MMR is giving a form of the virus as it were yeah it's a live virus whereas the COVID vaccines were even more unique in their methodology do you can you speak to kind of what's going on with the COVID vaccination and maybe it's new methodology as far as trying to create spike proteins artificially yes it's not a vaccine at all by but into our understanding of what a vaccine is it's a way it's a gene therapy so it's injecting the the RNA that encodes for a protein the spike protein into our own cells such that our own cells become a factory for the manufacturer of the spike protein which is in itself highly highly dangerous protein highly reactogenic protein and so we now make an immune response against our own cells well that is called an autoimmune disease right isn't it extraordinary that we are actually forcibly encouraging our own bodies to turn against themselves and create this autoimmune disease situation that is what it is there's as simple as that although it's far more complicated but it's far more dangerous than that but that in essence is what we're talking about here we're turning our own cells into factories for viral proteins which are highly toxic such that we now attack our own cells and that's never been done before in the form of a vaccine it may be because the live viral vaccines are failing that we're going to see suddenly mRNA based shots being put on the market for measles mumps and rubella and literally that would be I was gonna say something quite strong then but I that would be catastrophic that would be disastrous it's already been proven to be disastrous for many people in the context of COVID and yet they still they still the advocates still maintain that oh it's been the rollout has been such a terrible a tremendous success no it hasn't so yeah it that's really what the difference between the live viral vaccine which is giving a an attenuated or modified a weakened so-called weakened I don't believe it's weakened it's just changed strain of a naturally occurring virus to individuals as opposed to giving this new COVID shot well and you gotta have to wonder when it comes to mRNA technology specifically you know how do they get that balance perfect to where it's not either creating too many spike proteins or the immune system isn't attacking it too much like how do you get it that perfect balance and you know I and in theory some of these things sound okay right obviously if someone could get injected with something that's going to mimic a virus and then you create the immune the immune response and that caused you to never catch the disease it sounds great I just think that the problem is does that really happen and what are the side effects and when it comes to you know some of these other vaccination processes the MMR they were kind of maybe more of a lifetime some of them have a booster but they're mostly just kind of a lifetime whereas it seems like with these COVID vaccinations there you have to get a booster every six months well that seems perfect if you need to sell them it's not necessarily the best when it comes to the general populace but in a strategy to make money again which you know the Bible does say the love of money is the root of all evil you kind of have to ask this question how safe are these things and I think this is a such an important film protocol 7 to talk about you know a debt a demonstrated case still obviously an ongoing legal battle but a demonstrated case where it appears and there's a lot of evidence to suggest these pharmaceutical companies are willing to lie they're willing to potentially change data to do all kinds of different actions to cover up their intentions the efficacy the safety of their products and you know I think it's even documented that some of these companies are the most they've had to pay the most money in lawsuits and and doing things inappropriately so you know they don't necessarily have a good reputation they have no motivation for safety or efficacy they have legal protections against certain lawsuits towards them and you know these individuals I don't even think they've taken the Hippocratic oath they're not doctors that are trying to necessarily try to get people better or healthy their CEOs their their business owners they're about making profit they're about making money and you know when you have actual doctors coming out against like Peter McCullough like you like others I know Mercola had at one time been a pretty big advocate in this particular space there's probably several others but you know it it's just definitely frustrating to see that so many people are unwilling to even talk about this issue and so you know take your family members take your friends say hey there's a cool movie that's coming out protocol seven you got to check it out even if even if they're if they don't like this topic just don't tell them you say hey come to the movie we're gonna watch an interesting movie and just let them see for themselves what's going on and even someone that's not necessarily interested in this topic it seems like the film still pretty interesting and engaging anyways right yeah if you enjoyed Erin Brockovich if you enjoyed Silent Spring or spotlight it's this is a movie for you people love whistleblower movies so irrespective of you know the the message that underlies it it's a great movie so please well I really appreciate your time I don't want to you're really gracious to give us over an hour of your time and I did want to give you one last chance here if there's anything else that you wanted to bring up or anything else you wanted to plug for our audience but I'm really excited about the project thank you so much for giving us opportunity to showcase it is there anything else that you would like to to bring up before we kind of let you go oh did this movie was made for you it was made it doesn't beat you over the head it is made to entertain and inform and allow you to make choices and decisions accordingly but it is based upon fact it is based upon the actual documents that were part of what happened at work and we are very confident that it will do very well whether it does well or not in large part comes down to you and spreading the word spreading the word and getting people to come and see the movie so please help us with that and that will enable us to make the next story someone wanted me to ask this question real quick for further study or if they're just interested in this topic is there any resources made there be books or websites that people can find more information about this topic there is an abundance and if you enjoy film then please go and see vaxxed because it's it it's very informative and go and see 1986 the act or download that online and that will be available on our website as well so we're just preparing that at the moment the 1986 gives you act the act gives you the sort of definitive history of how they how the drug companies the vaccine manufacturers came to be exempt from liability for death and injury such that they had a mandatory market children had to get their vaccines no liability all they could do was make a massive profit and that's what they did and that's when they expanded the vaccine program because they knew they could sell sell sell without any liability so what's those two and they will direct you to further resources that allow you to go further into this well thank you again so much for your time you can check out the movie protocol 7 you can check it out in fact the you the trailers on YouTube it's on IMDb you can go to their website and you can check out the film I'm excited to see the film I think I get to see it June 7th is there's a screening in Texas I'm gonna go and so I'm excited for that and I really appreciate you you know indulging me to talk about this subject because so few people in my life are willing to even have a conversation on this topic and so you inspire me you also you know make a difference in people's lives no matter how popular the film is you know we're still here to reach the individual and I know there's a lot of individuals who have been positively affected by your stand and others who are willing to you know lose their medical license lose their career and become a filmmaker and so we really appreciate you and that's gonna pretty much do it for us on the show this is a special episode of the Baptist bias but make sure to check us out Tuesdays at 8 p.m. when we have our normal show this week we're gonna have a special debate you don't want to miss it but I want you to make sure you check out this film protocol 7 and everyone's got a perspective out there folks but you need to get the Baptist bias