(Disclaimer: This transcript is auto-generated and may contain mistakes.)

Hey everybody, thanks for joining us for a special Baptist Bias broadcast. We're gonna actually call on the phone Dr. Chuck Baldwin, and we're gonna interview him over the phone and talk about the spiritual condition of America, politics. This is definitely his forte, and so we're really excited to call him up, have him on the phone, and do kind of a quick little interview. So I really hope you enjoy this podcast. If you do, make sure to share it, subscribe to our channels, and check out our Rumble channel. Definitely follow us out there. We put even more content on our Rumble. Let's go ahead and take a listen. Thanks so much for agreeing to have a discussion with us today. I'm gonna try and be respectful of your time, so I was gonna kind of jump into it. Just to give us kind of an update, are you still pastoring in the Montana area? Yes, I'm still pastor of Liberty Fellowship, Kalispell, Montana. And how long have you been in that church? Oh, let's see. 13 years, I believe. That's great, and of course you're kind of well known as being someone that's kind of an outspoken, right-wing, American politician. I guess at one point you were, if I read your Wikipedia page, it says that you were a presidential nominee in the Constitutional Party in 2008. Is that accurate? That's correct. And so obviously you've had your fair share of dealings with politics, and you know that's one of the things that we kind of wanted to ask you a little bit about, is just when it comes to the structure of our government, do you kind of have a strong opinion as far as, you know, where we should be headed as far as maybe being more libertarian, or some people talk about things like Christian nationalism? You know, what is your kind of stance when it comes to the structure of maybe where we're at or where we should be headed? And you know, kind of what would be your view as far as like biblically, what do you think is the best plan for America? Yeah, I'm definitely a constitutionalist. And I believe that the Constitution, by that I mean the Bill of Rights and the Declaration of Independence as well. Our founding documents provided the American people with the greatest land of liberty that has ever been created in the history of mankind. And I am absolutely adamant that the reason we are in the condition that we're in today is because simply, we have ignored and trampled over the constitutional constraints of government that are found in our founding documents. And the only way that we're going to reverse that is to return to constitutionalism and true republicanism, small r. So yeah, I do think that has biblical basis. We can go into a lengthy discussion on that. But when you look at the mechanical makeup of the Israel's tribes in the Old Testament, of course, we know that God ruled Israel, through Moses, as the prophet of God and man of God, delivered Israel, etc. But when you read the makeup of Israel itself, and the encampments of the nation, and then the subdividing of the country into 12 distinct tribes, every tribe had its own leadership, every tribe had its own boundaries, every tribe had its own judges, and only the linear matters of law were brought to Moses, the rest were taken care of by the local tribes and the leaders that were appointed or, or elected, however, they did it at that time. When you analyze that, from a geopolitical point of view, you come, you come pretty, pretty close to the type of government that our founding fathers created for us a republican constitutionalist type of government where you have a federal government, but that, unlike Moses, who was supreme, the federal government in America is not supreme. There are checks and balances within the system of federalism. And then you have the state governments which have unique and individual authority that cannot be trampled by the federal government. Then you have the individual militia of the states, which was to be a further check and balance of tyranny and usurpation of liberty. Then you have the jury, which was supposed to do the same thing. So on and on, you have the, you know, the model of constitutionalist republicanism within the structure of Old Testament Israel. So I think that the structure that was given to us by our founders was the best one that could have ever been devised by mankind, and it worked for 150, 175 years. And only until the 20th century came and we felt that we were smarter than our founders. And we started to deviate from constitutionalism have we entered into this phase that we're in today. Well, and a lot of people argue about the system of government that America has and say that there's a lot of flaws or there's a lot of issues and that if we change the structure of our government, that would somehow give us more liberty or fix some of the issues that we're dealing with. You know, my viewpoint or kind of looking at our current situation, it seems like that the structure is arguably about as good as you're going to get from a basis of human government, apart from obviously Christ ruling himself on Earth physically, and that really it's just a matter of culture and the people who are running the system are not following the rules. Is that kind of a fair assessment? Do you feel like if we were able to fix the culture and maybe empower the states to put pressure back on the federal government to behave appropriately, that the system doesn't need much modification? It's more just the people that are in charge of it actually doing what the Constitution, Bill of Rights and what the founders had framed for us to exercise. Well, yeah, I certainly agree with everything you said there. That's exactly what I was trying to get at in my first answer to your question. Yeah, the system itself is the best that we could ever hope to have. And it worked, you know, for all those all those years and everything you said about the leadership is absolutely true. We have two parties that pretty much ignore the Constitution at will. And unfortunately, they're not held in second balance by the people themselves. But I would say personally that the real problem in America today and you mentioned the culture and that's certainly certainly a major problem. But I think the cultural problem is a result of the spiritual problem. I think America has a huge spiritual problem that cannot be fixed politically at this point. Right. To bring in another system of government of whatever kind would come up with would only be worse than what we have now. It would not be better. The problem is that we have a spiritual church that is AWOL and are not addressing the salient spiritual issues of the day. Most of our pastors, I hate to say it, but it's true. I would estimate it's not an estimation. It's pretty much scientific fact. Eighty percent of the evangelical pastors in America today refuse to address the crucial issues affecting our liberties in this country. They've taken themselves completely out of, quote unquote, politics. And really, it's not politics. And I certainly do not consider myself a politician. And we're talking about the affairs of government. And there's a there's a huge difference between political systems and the affairs of government. You know, God in his word speaks to every level of mankind. He speaks to family. He speaks to work. He speaks to our pleasures and speaks to our responsibilities. He speaks to our spiritual life. You know, every part of our life that's important to us is addressed in the word of God. And the same thing is true governmentally. God has spent copious amounts of scripture dealing with the principles of good government. And, you know, when you go back to the Old Testament and you see the conditions of society that prevail, which brought about God's judgment, a lot of that had to do with the governmental structures that took place during that time. They came to a place where they got into idolatry. They got away from the God of the Old Testament. They got away from the principles and laws that he gave them. And they went into paganism. They went into idolatry and and that affected their governmental structure. I mean, the kings of both Israel and Judah, for the most part, were rebels against the laws of God and the natural laws of God as well. And so God had no choice but to judge them. And so I think that we have the same similar problem today, which is a spiritual problem. It's not going to be fixed by politics. It's going to be fixed by pastors speaking up in the pulpits and teaching the word of God and addressing the issues of the day. I mean, when you talk about the moral issues of God, the ethical issues of God and the good government issues that God has given to us, those are not political. I mean, if the society says that abortion is politics, well, that's too bad. Abortion is not politics. It has nothing to do with politics. It has to do with life. It has to do with the sanctity of life, the preservation and the protection of life. That's not political. You know, when you talk about the right to keep and bear arms, that's not political. There's nothing political about it. That's about God's natural law of self-preservation. It's about God's natural law of self-defense, which is given to us throughout the scriptures of the New Testament. It's not political. You know, when you start talking about family issues, you start talking about liberty issues, these are not political issues. And that's the problem is the church has allowed the media to define what is political and what is not political. And then if the media says this is political and you're talking politics from the pulpit and the churches go, oh, gee, we don't want to be controversial, you know, we don't want to violate separation of church and state, or we don't want people to think that we're a political church, etc., etc., then they just say nothing. Well, if you do that, then what you've done is you've abandoned the battlefield. You've abandoned the entire area where the people of especially the churches need to be instructed, need to be led into the ways that are right, pure and godly. But but they're not being led because the pastors are afraid to say anything. So to the media and to the walking heads to to make the definitions and to apply those principles the way they see fit, of course, which is contrary to everything that we know is right as Christians. Right. It seems like the media it seems like the media is like almost replacing the pulpit and the preachers today. And, you know, I kind of I want to make a few statements. I like where you're going talking about media, but specifically, it seems as if, you know, even biblically that whenever the children of Israel as a whole, their culture is shifted away from God. And, you know, I talked about culture. Of course, I am referring to the spiritual condition, just like you mentioned. And I agree with everything that you said. It seems like God gives them leadership that is even more wicked or more away from God than even the nation itself. And it seems like to me as America, like the vast majority of people probably don't even agree with a lot of decisions that are being made for them by their politicians, the direction our country is headed, and that, you know, it's really God punishing and judging our nation for having turned away from the Lord. And, you know, if we as pastors or if the preachers are not out there preaching what the Bible says to try and draw America back to the Lord, that there's really only one narrative that's being espoused. And like you mentioned, it's kind of this media is kind of taking the place, social media even a little bit. And if we're real honest about it, I mean, the media is mostly predominantly controlled by those who practice Judaism. And so and they don't have the same viewpoints, values. They don't have the same God. They have an antichrist religion. And if preachers aren't putting forth the opinions of the Bible or God, I don't see how anybody could even turn back to the Lord. You know, they want to vote in Trump, but I don't see elections solving our problems. It seems like the pastors have to be the ones, you know, in this spiritual battle, you know, fighting against the lies and the deception that are being put forth like never before. I mean, media and social media and the Internet has really expanded so much in the past few decades that it's a very powerful force. I mean, you know, when it comes to combating this, you know, is there really any option other than pastors getting up and preaching the Bible? No, I don't think so. And I don't think there's a plan B. And you're exactly right about the comparison that the media has become the pulpit or taken the place of the pulpit, at least intellectually. That's exactly true. I mean, you don't think about it. So let's say a Christian goes to church every Sunday, which most don't. And let's say that every Sunday they go to church and they sit in a church where a pastor says nothing, absolutely nothing about the issues like we're talking about today gives no spiritual direction whatsoever to what the church should be doing, how they should be understanding the issues, what the issues are from a biblical point of view, not from a geopolitical point of view and teaching them this is what God's word says. This is the way we're supposed to live. This is the way we're supposed to stand. Here's where our freedoms are in jeopardy and why we need to protect those freedoms, et cetera, et cetera. So they hear none of that, not zero. And so they sit and listen to about a 20 or 25 minute sermon, which is about the average length of these so-called homilies today. And then the rest of the week they go home and they watch Fox News and they and they watch Fox News for hours and hours and hours. And then they get on social media and they've got these feeds that they read religiously and then they post and repost and copy and recopy and, oh, that makes sense. And oh, yeah, I like the way that that person's I mean, they're getting information from a little bit of everything, a little bit of everybody, a little piece here, a little piece there, a lot of the media. And the pastor has absolutely no influence whatsoever when it comes to the issues of government. He's taking himself out of the discussion. Right. The people are left in a confused state. And I think you're exactly right. I think the vast majority of the American people at their heart, even unsafe people, have basically a decency about them. They have a they have a moral code of behavior. You know, they know it's wrong to steal and it's wrong to lie. You know, they have a basic moral fiber about them that they believe is important for their lives. And so they don't go along with all these wicked evil leaders that we have. But again, the lack of leadership from the pulpit spiritually has left them shepherdless. And let's face it, one of the duties of the pastor is to be a shepherd and to be a watchman. Well, they're not doing that. And so the people are shepherdless. They don't know what it's so they just they just grabbed everything and everything that they hear. Some of it's good. Some of it's not so good. Some of it's downright lies and evil. And they're picking up all this hodgepodge ideas. And it's a floundering society. You know, it's a society without without a foundation, without a really a strict understanding of real truth and know how to build and construct not not just your community and your state, but even your personal life and family. It makes me think of the verse that says my people are destroyed for lack of knowledge and they're not getting fed. And I think that they are searching for a shepherd and they're looking outside the church for individuals, like you mentioned, perhaps podcasters, conservative radio hosts. Trump, I think, is another person that a lot of people are kind of looking to for leadership. And they, you know, as a whole, you know, they're not really looking they're not really seeking for pastors. And I think it's kind of twofold. I think there's a lot of pastors that aren't really worth following anyways, so they're not really resisting the culture. And so that that's a problem. I think there's also a censorship issue where voices that are trying to make a difference are being throttled and silenced and definitely making it harder for people to maybe find that particular content. But, you know, it seems like to me, if, you know, we were going to try and make a pretty big difference, that it almost has to be kind of a bottom up approach of really rallying a lot of people in your local area and kind of changing the local politics and having that bubble up to where potentially you could even get a whole state or you get a group of states and then eventually that could put enough pressure to eventually maybe make a difference culturally. But we're probably talking about a long period of time to potentially here. And I don't see how the the electoral process is going to fix anything in this country. And yet I feel like many people are are kind of that's their only hope. And I think it ties back to something you said where they're consuming hours of Fox News, they're consuming hours of social media. And, you know, that's kind of even motivated me to even have maybe a separate podcast or shows or things like this, because I think that a lot of people, they'll listen to someone that's conservative, maybe a Sean Hannity, Tucker Carlson or some of these individuals, and they don't necessarily even agree with them 100 percent, but they're just the closest thing to what they agree with. And so they end up tolerating them, but it ends up influencing them at the end of the day. And they don't realize how much they're actually shifting their viewpoints, their stances, and they're getting further and further away from biblical truth. And because their pastor isn't standing in contrast, but in many cases is just a talking head for Fox News, it really is just a gradual process of people just being led away from Christianity, the Bible, God as a whole. And it seems like we need some really bold pastors and individuals that are going to try and draw a lot of people back. You know, from from your perspective, how do you motivate or encourage pastors to actually take a bold stand? Yeah, listen, if you can answer that question, you know, you can solve the ills of the country. Amen. What's it going to take? I've asked that question myself, you know, many, many times. What's it what's it really going to take for the pastors to get out of their their willful slumber? And I say willful because it is willful. They when you get them, you know, we've been around pastors all of our lives. You know, I've been at this thing for over 48 years, and that's how far I go back. And I mean, you can't tell me virtually anything about pastors that I that I don't know, that I haven't seen, experienced, heard, been part of in all these decades. So I know how pastors are. I know how they think. I know, you know, what they do. And so when you if you go to lunch, let's say you get a handful of pastor friends together from different denominations. And so you sit around the lunch table and you have an hour and a half to chat. Invariably, the subject of the moral slash political slash cultural condition of our country will come up invariably at every at every just every table discussion, it'll come up and they will sit there for 90 minutes. And they will discuss the problems and they will discuss the answers and they'll talk about, you know, we've gotten away from from the truth, you know, we've gotten away from from the basic moral fiber of God's word, you know, the basic essential natural laws of God, they may not use that term, because many people don't know about that. But they will talk about these things in private. So then, you know, if somebody at the table says, you know, we've just been talking spent 90 minutes addressing the issues that need to be addressed concerning our country, how come none of us talk about that from the pulpit on Sunday? And it'll be nothing but deathly silence until somebody changes the subject, because they know that they are not doing instinctively. They know that they are not doing what they should be doing from the pulpit. And they all have their individual reasons as to why they're not. Let's face it, some of them are just naturally cowards that just to say like it is, there's some preachers, just cowardly preachers, and then some are looking at it from terms of financial stability. They don't want to lose their job, quote unquote. They don't want to be fired from the congregation. They have a 401k set up. They have, you know, they get a month or six weeks of vacation every year. Well, the Deagans might vote them out. Yeah, exactly. They have, you know, they have financial security, they have comfort, they have popularity, you know, they have a fairly comfortable life. And if they got up and started stirring the waters and they know that some of these people in the congregation are not going to like it, they know that some are going to leave the congregation, which means that the offerings are going to go down. They may not be able to hire as many staff members. I mean, I'm able to build that building that they want to build. You know, they're looking at all of the ramifications of if I get up and boldly state truth, you know what ripple effect is that going to have on the congregation? Some of them are married to the 501c3 Internal Revenue Code to the point that if they say anything that they are told is outside the domain of what is proper for a nonprofit government entity, which is what a 501c3 church is, then they can lose their nonprofit status. And that means that every dollar that's given to the church would not be tax deductible. It means that they'd have to pay sales taxes on everything they buy. I mean, that they would be the properties will be taxed, etc, etc. And so they want to fall out of the graces of the Internal Revenue Service. You know, there's a lot of different reasons why they don't do it. But the bottom line is they know that they're not doing it. And I believe in their heart of hearts. Most of them know they should be doing it, but they're not doing it. And what it would take to get them to do it. That's that's the 64 million dollar question that nobody that I know knows the answer to, because if we did know the answer, we could do it. And the pastors are the only ones that have it within their power to change the course of the country. They're the only one. We cannot look for Donald Trump to change anything while people love Trump, etc, etc. Donald Trump is a corrupt individual. He is not a man of God. He is not a man that is guided by the principles of God. He doesn't even understand constitutional government. His first term in office proved how inept he was constitutionally. He surrounds himself by the same New World Order, C.F.R. globalist kind of people that every presidential administration had. In fact, Trump had more C.F.R. globalist in his cabinet than Barack Obama. And he was only in the White House half the time. It's not bashing Trump. I'm just being realistic. I'm saying, yeah, I understand. Looking for answers from a politician are looking in the wrong place. They need to be looking in the pulpits. They need to be demanding that their pastor speak the truth and tell people what's going on. In fact, if the people would say, look, if this pastor isn't going to tell me the truth, I'm going to find a pastor that will and they would start voting with their feet and leaving these circuses, these circus performances with the lights and all the music and all the rock band stuff and the entertainment stuff and smoke and mirrors and say, look, I want some truth. I want some meat. I want the word of God. And we would would stop supporting these kind of churches. You know, that could make a big difference, right? As it is, you know, people are staying home. You know, I have we have over 200 satellite fellowships at Liberty Fellowship. That's over 200 distinct fellowships where people are willing to put their name on a website, our website with an email address. And here we are. We are worshipping every Sunday at two thirty and we're watching Liberty Fellowship together as a small congregation because we're tired of wasting our time in these playground churches and we want to hear the truth. And we have over 200 of those satellite fellowships all over the world, literally that are coming together to hear the truth. Well, if more people will begin doing that and showing these compromising pastors that they're not going to get ahead by continuing to ignore the word of God and play these games, I don't know, would that wake some of them up? Well, I definitely I definitely partially agree with you in the sense that, you know, people need to take responsibility, too. We can't just only force, you know, we can't just necessarily only affect the pastors. And there's a lot of people out there that are not a pastor and they're wondering what to do. And I agree that they should vote with their feet in the sense that they need to go to a church that is actually going to stand for the truth. You know, I, I would hope or prefer people to actually find a physical church they could go to, and if they, like your church, move, you know, I think they should just move to Montana or move to a church. And it's funny to me that culturally, a lot of people are kind of angry about the Republican Party and they'll say there's all these candidates that are Republican in name only. They call them rhinos. But it seems like we kind of have that issue spiritually where we have a lot of pastors in name only where they have the title, the accolades, and the salary, but they're not really doing the job. And people, you know, going to a particular church makes a big impact. If a pastor is going to preach a 20-minute sermonette, not really touch on the difficult parts of the Bible, not approach the culture as it is, then, you know, people should go to the right church. And I think that, you know, that's a big issue in America, that people are not going to a church that's going to feed them the scripture, that's not preaching the hard truths of the Bible. They would rather have their ears tickled. And, you know, the Bible does mention that that is something that can happen in Second Timothy chapter four. But you know what? I would highly encourage people to get plugged in at a church that's going to challenge them, go back against the culture. I mean, if they really want to make an impact, you know, donating $50 to Donald Trump isn't going to do it. You know, they got to. They got to get in plugged to a church and in my mind, empower the pastor, you know, be the men that stand there on the sides of Moses lifting up his arms so that we could actually, you know, make a difference in this culture as opposed to, you know, staying, you know, away from the battle and just hoping that somebody will do it all for you. I think that God wants to see a large group of people rally behind the truth of God's Word, not just one man. There's times in the Bible where there is a leader that's willing to follow God, but the people didn't go along with the leader and it was still ineffective. You know, we need we need both. We need the leadership and we need the people. And, you know, I appreciate men like you that are willing to at least, you know, be unpopular. And frankly, it's not like you haven't still had success and you're still pastoring. You know, I think a lot of people are afraid of a boogeyman out there, but you can still have success standing on the word of God. It's it just may look different, right? You might not have you might not be buddies with the mayor and the police chief and everybody, you know, invite you to their country club membership. But obviously, you know, the Zionists probably won't like you. And, you know, I think that that might be that might be an issue. Why a lot of these pastors are kind of being cowards or not preaching the truth is they're just kind of wrong on doctrine and they're afraid to change because of all the Bible college fellowships and the groups that they're associated with. And, you know, I hope that independent Baptist churches could be empowered by being independent to preach the truth no matter what friendships that may cost them. Yeah, amen to all that, and I agree with every word you said and yeah, you're right, I think our fellowship is a living example of what you're talking about. I would say that at least 50 percent, probably more than 50 percent of our congregation is comprised of people that moved here from all over the country. That's great. You know, that's that's a major part of our of our work. And people have felt so strongly about the message of truth that that's exactly what they've done. So I know that what you're saying is true because I see it in my own congregation. I mean, people are moving here all the time. We just recently had two families move here from California and, you know, they're wonderful people and they just are really plugged in and went to work and they're serving and, you know, just took them in and cost them something to, you know, cost something to do that. You know, it costs you financially. It costs you among your family. You know, if you're leaving family behind, you know, that can be a real heart wrenching thing. You know, whenever the family doesn't see it, you know, they're blind to it. They don't understand why you're doing it. You're cracked up, you know, all that kind of thing. So, you know, it's a financial toll, it's an emotional toll, a family toll. There's a lot of there's a lot of reasons why people aren't willing to do something like that because of the price it would have to pay. But in spite of that, people are still doing it. And we see it we've seen it since we started back in 2011. And, you know, so it's something that you what you said is absolutely taking place. It's not just theory. It is happening. And, you know, and I agree that more of it needs to happen. And I agree with you also about why, you know, it's not happening, why people are doing it. And a pastor without a congregation is left pretty much neutered, you know, and ineffective in his in his ability to proclaim the word. And as far as success, I mean, we've had oh, yeah, we've got a lot of opposition. Of course, my my stand on Christian Zionism and everything is extremely well known. But, you know, I'm I have a lot of people that are in in political offices here in the valley called the Valley, the Flathead Valley of Montana that are friends of mine. And we get along very well. And the sheriff is a friend. And we've got a lot of local people that they do believe in in basic liberty. You know, they understand the principles of God when it comes to that. And they and they have a love for God and a love for decency and a love for freedom and a love for their for the family and all these kind of things. And they're not caught up in all this woke agenda. Right. It's, you know, that the federal government, the media is pushing. They're not they're not part of that. And, you know, you'd be surprised how many people are out there, some of them that don't go to church at all, but they have an innate loyalty to the basic fundamental cultural principles of family and decency and honesty and hard work and all those things. And, you know, when when you're preaching the truth of God's word, all that meshes perfectly with, you know, with God's plan for societies and communities. Right. And so people that that live that way and believe that way, they're not going to be your enemy. You know, yeah, we have enemies. We you know, we have people that are in the woke agenda. You know, they hate us. And, you know, people that are just giving themselves to this demonic nature that is sweeping the country morally and ethically and every other way, you know, those kind of people. Yeah, they hate us. Well, so what? You know, you know, right. Hazel was hated by the Pharisees like nobody's business. And, you know, whenever people I've given themselves over to the wickedness and to evil, if they don't hate you, something's wrong with you. You know, you're not doing something right. But there's a lot of decent people, God fearing people in and out of church that appreciate truth when they hear it. And so, you know, we've been here long enough now, of course, I was thirty five years in the Panhandle, Florida, and, you know, we we had friends down there and just about every conceivable political, social station in the community. And, you know, we've been able to develop those kind of relationships here in the valley as well. So this isn't like, you know, you're a hermit and everybody, everybody in the world hates you and nobody will talk to you and go to restaurant people spit at you. That's not true. I mean, you know, we have friends all over the area that really appreciate. In fact, to show you how it works, we just had the local newspaper, the daily newspaper, just had an annual survey, you know, the best of everything. Right. And they got best of church and best pastor and all that stuff. Well, I was voted number two best pastor and our church, Libby Fellowship was voted number three best church. So, I mean, that shows that there's a lot of people that appreciate the truth that we speak. And so I think the devil gives pastors this idea that if they stand up and they speak out on controversial subjects, that everybody's going to hate them. And that's not true. Some people are going to hate them. Right. And some people are going to walk out. So what? Count the cost. You know, but there's a lot of people that are going to love you because you're preaching the truth. So, yeah, I like that. And and I think the spiritual wickedness in high places is more kind of what I'm alluding to. But, you know, where you've had an influence for a while, you've seen a positive impact. And again, that's kind of what my philosophy is on how to actually make a difference is, you know, encouraging enough people and maybe the younger generations that are not going to be a pastor, that are not going to necessarily be full time Christian service to become, you know, the sheriff, to become, you know, some of the local city politicians and to, of course, approach government because there's nothing wrong with government. Government is ordained by God and we need godly Christians who are willing to take on these roles and to fight with a lot of the corruption and the evil that's out there. And so, you know, God willing, we would influence the mayor and the police chief and the sheriff and people that are in positions of power and cause them to see the light and to fear God. I just at the same time, I think that realistically, especially in more liberal parts of the country, that if you are preaching the Bible, you may face a lot of opposition from some of these individuals, considering the just extreme level of corruption that is going on currently in our nation. And I don't even think that, you know, I think a lot of the election system has probably been taken over and hijacked. And so, you know, I don't even think that it's always the will of the people, but it's kind of a rigged system and we need some God-fearing people to step up and infect the culture. Amen. Yeah, and I think what you're talking about, the corruption in the voting system probably is more pervasive in the bigger cities and the bigger races, like senatorial races and some of these corrupt names. And that's another thing. We don't want Tom talk about this, but I think eventually it's inevitable that there will be some kind of a separation take place in this country. I think that's inevitable, too. I mean, the blue states and the red states is an easy way to say it. I think that's oversimplification. But let's face it. There are there are states and communities that are just hellish, demonic, even in their approach to government and how people can stay there forever and subject their families to that kind of tyranny. You know, they won't be able to do it forever. Well, that frog in boiling pot water, you know, sometimes seems to be kind of surprising how much people put up with if it's slow enough. I realize that, but really the move has already begun, though. I mean, millions, you don't hear this in the media, but millions of people have left California already. We're not talking about are going to leave. They've already left. I mean, we've we've got several hundreds of them that have come to this area. And thankfully, most of them are the freedom oriented kind of people looking to escape the tyranny of California, not the other way around. And, you know, California is losing people by the droves. Chicago's losing people by the droves. New York is losing people by the droves. They're going they're flying out of New England, like the Baltimore area. Philadelphia, you know, they're leaving there by the millions and millions. The migration has already has already begun. It's it's not talked about because nobody wants other people to get the idea that, hey, this is this is a good idea. You know, we can actually do this. We still have the freedom to move. And, you know, so they don't talk about it. But this is going on. And a lot of these tyrannical areas, they are losing tax dollars galore. And they're they're losing manpower and they're losing jobs. San Francisco is a ghost town downtown just about. It's nothing. And when if you've ever been to the West Coast and visited L.A. or San Francisco and all that. I don't know if I lost you. It's it's it's not it's not even safe for employees to go to work there anymore. You know, the same story is happening in Portland and the same is happening in Seattle. You know, all of these the super liberal, woke areas that are trying to force these demonic agenda on their societies, their cities are crumbling. The crime is escalating exponentially. The jobs are gone. The way of life is gone. You can't walk down the street even in the daytime, much less at night. You know, and people are just they're getting out. They have no choice. They they're leaving and they're looking for a free place to live. They're looking for a safe place to live. And so that has already happened and it's going to continue to happen. And at some point, there's going to be a huge geopolitical shift in the makeup of the population of this country. And if if the Lord tarries and allows all this to happen in America, I think, again, it's inevitable that there's going to be a great separation in this country, which I think is eventually going to be a good thing. Well, I definitely could see something like that happening, I could see it not happening to because I think that those that are in power, the last thing they want to do is let go of a lot of the natural resources and workforce in some of these more conservative parts of the country. I think they would prefer to keep us as docile slaves, but I want to be respectful of your time. And I feel like we could talk for a really long time on these subjects. But, you know, when it comes to, you know, fixing our situation, what's within our control, it seems like the best option and we've kind of discussed this already, but it seems like our best option is to, you know, encourage and empower the pastors around us and get plugged in the local church. I don't want to put words in your mouth, but is this kind of your is that kind of your assessment as well? I guess I've been saying it forever that the answers in the pulpit is the only answer. The answer is the man of God standing up with the word of God and Spirit of God, you know, without fear of favor and keep preaching the truth and letting the chips fall where they may. You know, it's always been revealed through the scriptures over the New Testament. It's that's always been the same the same solution of some kind of a man of God. In the book of Judges, it was the judge that God would raise up and Moses. It was Moses and Joshua. And then it was the prophets that they came along and then it was the apostles and, you know, and every generation of Christendom from the beginning of the church age, there had been men of God who stood up and boldly proclaimed the truth that made the difference. I mean, you look at our own country and colonial America, there would be no United States without the colonial preaching of the pastors of New England at that time. You know, these were bold, courageous men who knew nothing about political correctness and woke agenda. And pastors weren't supposed to preach about this and they didn't know anything about that. Right. And they just got up and preached the truth of the word of God with power and conviction. And it produced two great awakenings in North America and it caused the American fight for independence, which gave us the Declaration of Independence, which gave us our country and the freedoms that we've enjoyed for all these years. All that would have never happened except for the powerful preaching of the pastors of colonial America. So, I mean, when you look at history, it's been a consistent theme that God's blessing and power is upon the pulpits and the Christians that support the pulpits. And when we talk about God's judgment on America, I have just a little bit of a nuance on that. I think it's what we're really saying is God's judgment on the church. When God is displeased with the church and the church is under judgment, the nation is under judgment. When God is blessing the church, then the nation is blessed. So whenever we see the church become what it needs to be under God, I believe the nation will become what it needs to be under God. I think that's a great point, and I really appreciate you taking the time to talk with us. And I think that these kind of podcasts and shows are important just because it gives people an opportunity to listen to things beyond just the sermons and to kind of get recalibrated back into the spiritual understanding that it's God that gives us a freedom in the first place. And if we forsake him, then, you know, it doesn't matter how much Constitution, Bill of Rights or whatever's signed up, you know, he can allow tyranny to reign over our lives. And so I greatly appreciate your time. God willing, maybe we could have another discussion in the future as there's a lot of other topics I'd like to explore with you, but I appreciate you so much for giving us time today to talk with us. And God bless you. Have a great day. All right. Thank you very much. I appreciate you asking me to come on. Yes, sir. Have a good day. Thanks so much for joining us. This was a special podcast with Chuck Baldwin, his pastor in Montana, and it was great to hear from him and his viewpoints on the spiritual condition of America and the things that we need to do. And don't let this podcast escape you. You need to get plugged into a real church, a church that believes the Bible, that's going to stand on the hard truths of the scripture. And you need to go out there and preach the gospel, reach your local community. You know, we can't change the culture and change the community and change our country with just one person. The pastor can't do it by himself. He needs other people to come alongside of him, to empower him, to encourage him, to get into the seats, to get into the pews, hear the sermons and to rally the troops. And so we need people to get plugged into local church. That is how we're going to change our country and our culture. God bless you. Have a good day.