(Disclaimer: This transcript is auto-generated and may contain mistakes.)

Thank you very much. Thank you. Hey everybody, thanks for joining us for the Baptist Bias and we have a really great show this evening. It's going to be on self-defense. We have a special guest, brother Chris Segura, and of course we have been the Baptist who's going to kick us off with a Benelog. Let him sell his garment and buy one. That's what Jesus prescribed for his disciples, for them to buy a sword and as this world descends further and further into chaos, it's something that I think all of us should take heed to as well. With violent crime on the rise, the love of many is indeed waxing cold and there are seemingly more random acts of violence that I'm noticing on the news than ever. More people are stealing, looting, and rioting. More people are being driven to insanity by the media and by the godless education system. So instead of allowing yourself to be a sitting duck, victim of a demon-possessed Biden voter, it might be time for you to learn how to defend yourself. It might be time for you to own a weapon, to buy a gun, and to learn how to use it. Unless of course you actually believe the mantra of progressive, so-called Christians and I use that term as lightly as possible, who've twisted the character of Christ into a dollar store Gandhi ripoff. That's exactly what they've done. That's what they've turned our Savior into. Case in point, John Pavlovitz. This is an American, Unitarian, fake pastor, and he's an author as well, who's known for extreme far-left social and political pearl-clutching that he posts on his website online. He posted this, he said, quote, no Christian, Jesus didn't say that you can have your guns. He says, quote, the cognitive dissonance of supposed followers of Jesus choosing the side of violence and opposing the movement of mercy is staggering, exceeded only by the contention that Jesus says they can pack heat. There simply aren't any theological gymnastics wild enough to make it work, not with the Jesus who preached that those following in his footsteps would turn the other cheek to violence. So we see here that Pavlovitz is borrowing from the devil's playbook, twisting the words of Christ out of context to promote an extreme limp-wristed form of pacifism. Now, to be clear, Jesus is not teaching people to turn the other cheek as a murderer breaks into their home and attempts to kill them. If somebody tries to break into your home to kill you or to kill your family, Jesus isn't prescribing for you to turn the other cheek. He's not teaching people to turn the other cheek as some deranged homeless lunatic chases you with a butcher knife because the voices in his head told him to do so. That's not what he's talking about. That's not what he means. Jesus in actuality is referring to a physical assault that would amount to nothing more than an attack on your pride, a shove, a slap in the face, even something a little bit more forceful but certainly nothing that would actually threaten your life. That's what he's talking about. The Jesus of Scripture, contrary to the false Christ of progressive fake Christianity, commanded his disciples to arm themselves. It's so clear in Scripture. He said the Goodman of the house would not have suffered his house to be broken up. He taught David's hands to war and his fingers to fight. Why? Because self-defense is biblical. Because self-defense is morally justifiable. Being armed and ready to defend yourself and to defend your family is, in fact, the byproduct of being a man, and it's also the byproduct of having a Baptist bias. Hey, everybody, thanks again for joining us for The Baptist Biased, and I'm here with my co-host, Ben the Baptist, and a little bit different studio set up this evening, but really excited to still keep the show going. We still have a few more episodes we want to do this season, and we have a special guest with us also, brother Chris Agura from Faith Board Baptist Church, but let's kick it back over to you, Ben. How's it going this evening? It's going great. Thanks a lot for having me on the program again for what should be a really intriguing show. We're talking about self-defense, and for some people who are, of course, the members of the, quote-unquote, progressive Christianity that I talked about in the Benelog. This is going to trigger them. This might trigger them into oblivion. They might cry themselves to sleep tonight if they tune into the show, but this is a biblical subject. We're going to look at it through the lenses of Scripture. We're going to look at it with a Baptist bias as usual, and I'm really excited to talk to our special guest this evening from Faith Board Baptist Church, who I think knows a thing or two about the subject matter that we're covering on this episode. Absolutely. Let's say hello to our guest, brother Chris Agura. How's it going, brother? Going good. Can you guys hear me? All right. All right, man. I'm good. I was nervous. I wouldn't be able to talk to you guys because I didn't have the right headphones, but it turns out I don't even need them, so we're done. Yeah, well, I work for Pastor Anderson, but before that, you know, I basically came from California. You know, I moved down here in 2009, so moved down here. Ironically enough, I came across Pastor Anderson on YouTube, and so I listened to him, and next thing you know, I'm wondering about this guy because he was preaching some things that were the contrary to what my church back in Northern California were teaching. For example, the pre-tribulation rapture. You know, our church was big on that, you know, but I've never heard anybody that was Baptist. You know, at that time, I'd already been going to church for roughly about eight years. You know, so really quick, I got saved. You know, I believe it was back in 2003, you know, then I ended up going to church. I believe it was towards the end of 2004, but then I got myself by God's grace into independent fundamental King James, only so when in Baptist church. And so our church was pre-trib and our church believed in other things, you know, that obviously are not biblical, you know, but I came across Pastor Anderson and I listened to him and I wasn't sure what to think, you know, so I didn't know my Bible like I should have, you know, and I decided, you know what, one thing I know for sure it was salvation is one thing I know for sure is that eternal life is the gift of God and it's a hundred percent by faith. And of course the gift is free, no strings attached, you know, so I ended up getting saved because of that verse, Romans 6 23, and nothing could shake me as far as I needed to repent of anything, you know, so when I came across Pastor Anderson, I didn't know what to think because he preached a really good sermon. He actually had preached on Bible college while he was on scriptural and during that time I was even thinking about or had tried to go to Bible college, but it didn't work out. I wasn't let in, you know, so of course I ended up just continuing to go to church, continuing to go soul-willing, just serving the Lord as best I could. And when I came across Pastor Anderson and he preached against Bible college and I listened to him for about 20 minutes and I was like, wow, you know, either this guy is a really good false prophet that now has changed my mind about Bible college, you know, or he's the real deal. So I decided to figure him out a little bit more. So I went to his website, try to find at least a plan of salvation. He didn't have one, but I saw that he had a link to audio sermon. So I clicked on that and then I saw some sermons on salvation. I think it was one, two, three repent after me or easy believe ism. So I clicked on that and after the first sermon I knew he was the real deal. He was hardcore easy believe ism, like I've never heard before, you know, so that caught my attention. Then I listened to another sermon on salvation, then another one, he had about four or five of them on the top at that time, you know? So then after that I was hooked. I knew he was a real deal, you know, and I decided to just listen to other sermons and I started to grow and I grew more just listening to him, maybe one sermon average a day for three months. I grew more listening to him in three months than I did going to church for eight years. So I was just blown away, you know, so there was an opportunity to be able to come down here to Arizona, you know, be a part of his church. So I figured, hey, you know what? This is the church that I think is the best church in America and this is back in 09, you know? And it wasn't a big church. I really couldn't tell what Pastor Anderson looked like. There weren't a lot of videos out there, but I knew he was the real deal based on the word of God, based on what he preached, you know, and not just that, but his life, his soul winning was what also attracted me. And so I decided back in 09, I had an opportunity, I was like, hey, I'm going to move to Arizona and go join this church because I know it's going to work out well, you know, because I agree with him on everything that he was doing. So I really loved it, you know, so I ended up moving down here in 2009, became part of the church and got a job, you know, just started raising my family out here. And then I started having a few more kids and, you know, about nine years later is when Pastor Anderson, he needed help. So one day he just calls me up and he's like, yeah, I need to talk to you in my office. You know, I don't remember if it was before or after the service, it might've been before the service. And so I was wondering like, what in the world, you know? So I decided, okay, no problem. So he took me into his office and at the time he said, listen, you know, such and such is leaving and such and such is leaving and I need help to kind of run things around here. You know, just little things, clean up emails, et cetera, et cetera. You know, and I need to hire someone I'm interested in hiring you. So that blew me away. I mean, that was just a shocker. I didn't think of that at all. I thought it was everybody. Yeah. Well, it blew me away. I just didn't know what to say. I honestly thought like, listen, are you sure? Cause there's a lot more people that are way more qualified than I am and are doing a whole lot more than me. I mean, I was just like, are you sure about that? And he's like, I'm very sure. Are you sure? I'm like, well, I mean, when the pastor of your church is asking to help them save, you know, people, you know, save their souls from hell, how could I say no to that? So I was still kind of wondering if I should, I don't think I gave him a straight answer that day. I think I told him to think about it. Then I spoke to my wife and I basically told her, I don't know, there's a lot more guys that think are better for the job. And so I was going to tell pastor no, but then my wife's like, Hey, listen, it was something to this degree. I've been following his faith for the last nine years. You know, I've asked him for advice on maybe a handful of things. And I took his advice and it worked out extremely well, you know, from the job to pick from the job that I chose to even buying a house, I went up to him and he gave me answers to those. And I went up to him just fully wanting to know the truth and be, and being willing to just, you know, make a decision based on what he says. And so of course that just kind of made me think, you know what, she's right. You know, I need to just follow him. If he thinks I'm the right guy for the job, you know, I've been following his faith for the last nine years. You know, who am I to start doubting him now? So I said, forget it. I'm going to jump in and, you know, do my best for him. And that's basically how I got this position. So I'm his assistant right now. So I just help him with the same thing. I've been helping him four years ago when he hired me, I believe it was around four years ago, just clean up the place, keep things organized, you know, running, soul winning and anything and everything, you know, like a Swiss army knife, whatever he needs anytime any place anywhere, you know, that's pretty much what happened is he hired me and that's what I do today. So my background as far as self-defense, you know, obviously every every kid grows up wanting to learn how to defend himself in case he needs to, you know, I didn't grow up in the safe area, you know, so I'm always wondering, you know, what would I do if I did get attacked and ended up going to schools where there are a lot of bullies and not just bullies, but just guys that thought they were hardcore and just tough guys. So of course, in middle school, you know, you had kids doing all kinds of stupid stuff and beating people up left and right. So I always was interested in martial arts. And of course, you know, when I went to high school, it was a little bit safer, but I still had that, you know, self-defense mentality that man, I would like to, you know, besides what I see in movies, I don't really have any martial arts or any type of self-defense training until I finally got into like an organization that teaches it, you know, for an occupation. And that was the military, you know, so I joined the Marine Corps when I was 16 and I ended up leaving, you know, a little bit right after high school. And so that's where I got my first experience with self-defense and I loved it. I thought it was great. I was like, wow, this is amazing, you know, and it wasn't what people usually think, you know, what they were teaching us, you know, was self-defense that you use when things really get crazy because they were stressed in the military. Don't use this unless your life is threatened, you know, so they started to, you know, instill in me from the get go, it's like, hey, the stuff that we're going to do or teach you is very dangerous. It can cause people, you know, to be severely hurt. So only use it as, I guess you can say like a life threatening situation. So they taught us different moves, you know, they taught us, you know, kind of like ethical rules of when you should use it, you know, so I think it's very important that people understand vividly what the Bible says, because after I got out the military, you know, started to fall into some false doctrine, you know, primarily coming from the Jehovah's false witnesses that made me feel, you know, like I was being wicked because I believed and, you know, participated in martial arts, whatever the discipline may be, you know, so I first heard that, you know, like the Bible says that the Lord hates, you know, a man that loves violence. And that was one of the things that the Jehovah's Witnesses started to teach. And I fell for it where I felt like, well, I mean, I love self-defense. I think it's smart. I mean, I don't know the Bible that well. But if the Bible says that we shouldn't love violence, I confuse self-defense with violence. And I'm glad you're doing this show because there may be a people out there as well. There may be some Christian girls out there that could fall for this weak, sissified Christianity where they make you think there's something wrong by standing up for yourself or your friends or your family and be willing to even if you had to take someone's life, you know, and and basically in self-defense, you know, they seem to want to just let you just believe that there's something wrong with that if you have that type of mentality, because that's where I'm at right now. I mean, it would take something serious for me to put my hands on someone, something super serious. But make no mistake, because I believe biblically I have the right to defend myself up to even taking someone's life if I have to, you know, if it comes down to it. So that's why I'm here. And that's what I want to do is just basically talk about self-defense, because it is something that I believe is biblical. We should be able or have the right to defend ourselves with whatever weapons or whatever means possible. You know, the situation is that severe. But obviously, if somebody's talking trash or saying something a little like that, that's another story. But anyways, that's pretty much where I'm from or where I'm coming from. Well, I really appreciate you sharing your testimony, and I definitely can say this, whenever you got hired, it was a major difference from the previous employment, Tyler Baker. Wow. Because that guy was just lazy, just normal. But you were such a hard worker that it was such a night and day difference that it just made Tyler Baker look like the worst worker in the world because you were just so hard working. And definitely I think everybody at the church could tell, but this year as a super hard worker, he's a real humble guy and definitely somebody you want in your corner if you ever need to employ some self-defense. And I think it's kind of silly to think that God would just hate any kind of self-defense or any kind of fighting, considering the entire Old Testament. I mean, just the entire Old Testament is just filled with fighting and war and all this stuff sanctioned by God. So in the Bible says, I am the Lord, I change not so. So how would we just completely just change narratives where God's saying in the Old Testament, fight all these people and defend yourself and go to war to just a complete pacifist, like there's no fighting whatsoever. Now, of course, we realize the New Testament, there has been a shift instead of fighting physical battles. We now only engage in spiritual battles when it comes to wartime. God doesn't want us to go and destroy other nations. It was a symbol to be used for the spiritual warfare that would take place in the New Testament. But at the same time, the show is dedicated on self-defense, which is a completely different topic than war or violence. There's a there's a clear distinction between these two. And I think it's going to be important to kind of draw those distinctions out, talk about some different verses here. What did you think about Brother Segura's background here? Well, I think it was interesting, Brother Segura, how when you were first offered the position that you kind of said, well, you know, what about other options or things that that just shows the humility there? I mean, you weren't just like, what took you so long? I mean, come on. Right. You should have picked me all. But I'm not going to go. But yeah, I mean, you know, at the end of the day, I actually had no idea. So this is a Jehovah's Witness doctrine that self-defense is wrong, that you can't use lethal force if necessary, even if your life is in danger. Like that's what they actually teach their people. Absolutely. I got it from just reading some material and there was a guy who was into karate, you know, he gave his testimony and then he made a claim that after reading what the Bible said, i.e. what the Jehovah's Witnesses taught them out of context, you know, he chose to give up karate and he chose to be nonviolent and he chose to never, ever want to put his hands on anyone ever again. You know, so that was the first time that I heard it that way. And yeah, you see the scriptures. You know, I mean, I can't quote it right now, you know, as I'm just trying to think of talking and et cetera, but it's to the degree where, you know, he did love and violence, the Lord hated. And so, of course, you know, it is what most people say, you know, it's a violent, you know, self-defense, martial arts or whatever. You know, they use that word violence, but it's not the same as when you look at it in a biblical perspective, because, you know, I got this from Pastor Anderson, violence, you know, look at the first letters of the word violence, you know, is violate. So pretty much you're hurting people, you know, that are not necessarily like trying to just spar with you or or maybe box with you or train with you. It's not something that's mutual. It's just you hurting people. That's not the same as self-defense. This is going to hurt people when you're defending yourself. But there's a big difference between defending yourself and just being a brawler, you know, just loving to get in fights. And yes, there has been Christians that I've spoken to. That didn't think there was anything wrong with just brawling until they started getting into the word of God and they realized, man, what am I doing? You know, I didn't realize that the Lord has issues with this. But yes, it was Jehovah's Witnesses. It was a Jehovah's Witness doctrine, I would call it, you know, where it started to make you think that any self-defense, karate, boxing, whatever, you know, they consider those violent, you know, I guess sports and that we should have nothing to do with them and they should never, you know, hurt someone or whatever for any reason, you know, but that's clearly not the case when you see scripture. And just common sense wise, I mean, we do have in this country still the right to defend ourselves, you know, via weapons or whatever. But that's pretty much what my experience has been. And that's the first time I ever thought that being someone who's into martial arts is sinful because of the way they twisted scripture. Well, let's debunk that, Pastor Shelley. I see that you have a verse up on your screen. Well, I wanted to bring up, I think, the verse that you're you're thinking of or people are using in this context. And in Psalms eleven five, the Bible says the Lord try the righteous, but the wicked and him that loveth violence, his soul hateth. So obviously the Bible and in other places, it also talks about violence being a very negative thing, the violent man, someone who loves violence. And if you look it up in a dictionary, violence is simply just to cause harm or injury to someone. But I don't believe that's what the Bible's definition of violence is. I would I would suggest that violence is intending harm to someone who's innocent, innocent. That's the key word, though, that you're basically attacking or trying to hurt someone who's done nothing wrong, who does not deserve it. And this really helps encapsulate the various situations someone could find themselves in. You know, even sparring, you know, you've already agreed with the person that you're going to play by a certain set of rules and it would only become violent if the person were to go across those boundaries or go across those rules. And the same is just in society, that there are certain rules of behavior that, you know, when someone crosses that threshold, that's what becomes violent. But if someone is attacking you, the question is, then are you licensed to essentially defend yourself? And I believe one of the best passages to go to is in Exodus 22, and it's the law and the Bible says in Exodus 22, verse one, it says, if a man shall steal an ox or a sheep and kill it or sell it, he shall restore five oxen for an ox and four sheep for a sheep. If a thief be found breaking up and be smitten that he die, there shall no blood be shed for him. So according to the Bible, when it's talking about theft and it's talking about people stealing, it says very clearly that in the process or the commotion, if a thief is caught and there's a scuffle and the person gets hit or smitten, it doesn't doesn't necessarily describe with what it could be a rock, it could be a fist, it could be a sword, could be even a gun in a modern vernacular. If that person smitten and dies, the Bible says that the person who did that is completely guilt free, like there's no punishment, there's nothing to be punishing him for. But it does have a caveat in the next verse. It says in verse three, if the sun be risen upon him, there shall be bloodshed for him, for he shall should make full restitution. If you have nothing, then he shall be sold for a scepter. The Bible basically describes that if someone's stealing your stuff at night, you know, kind of all bets are off because your life is in danger. You don't really know what the motives or the intentions of this person is. And so if you catch this person, it's at night. He ends up dying as a as an, you know, not a good circumstance, basically, you know, not something that people wanted to happen necessarily, but just in self-defense that there's no punishment. The only punishment would be if you catch someone stealing in the daytime and you just kill him for that, that is not a sin worthy of capital punishment. And I think that's definitely for a lot of cases, you know, there's a lot of white collar crime, like people stealing money electronically, or maybe someone steals a twenty dollar bill out of the cash register or maybe employees take some merchandise from their employer. You know, it's caught on camera. Obviously, it wouldn't be right to just put those people to death for that particular theft. But if someone's breaking in your house at night and and especially an armed robber, I mean, you don't know what their intentions are. They could cause you or your family harm. The Bible is making it clear you are within your rights to defend yourself, even up to killing that other person, if necessary, to defend you and to defend your house and arguably to defend property, which is interesting because in the state of Texas and a lot of states I've seen recently, they're suggesting that property is not worth dying for. But here in the Bible, it's saying if it's at night and and essentially you're trying to defend your property because it also could be your life, that that's, you know, really killing is on the table, you know, taking someone's life is on the table in that particular scenario, because it's not just the theft, it's the theft with the combination of your physical safety is at jeopardy. And so you have that right there to defend yourself. Now, if this is in God's law, how could you ever say that God's against self-defense? You know, Jesus didn't die on the cross so that now people can rob you and you just have to basically just take it on the chin or something like that. I think isn't that I mean, is that what the Jehovah's Witnesses are basically instructing? I mean, someone breaks in your house and you're just like, hey, don't take my TV, take my stereo also. Right. Turn the other cheek. Or what if, you know, you have family living with you, you have your wife, you have your children's. This doctrine is borderline just it's psychopathic. What are you supposed to do if somebody comes in wanting to murder your family? You're supposed to just kneel down in front of them and let it let him do it. I mean, what kind of man would do something like that? It seems like criminals came up with this doctrine. Yeah. What if there's a mass shooter who tries to, you know, mass murder a bunch of people in the middle of a church service? We're all supposed to just take it. Then it would be wrong. It would be sin for somebody to pull out their Glock 23 and blow that guy's brains out. Look, at the end of the day, you're going to be met with lead if you try to break into any one of our homes because of the fact that we're normal, because we're men and we want to defend our families. Any normal man would respond in that way and would want to meet the home invader with as much force as possible, not just to protect himself. But what about his kids? What about his wife? What kind of limp-wristed, extreme, pacifistic, garbage doctrine is this that says that you're supposed to just lay down and watch some psychopath, demon-possessed freak murder your children and murder your wife because, oh, turn the other cheek. What a horrible bastardization of the scripture and taking it way out of context to make the Bible look stupid. And, you know, it was Jesus who said in Matthew 24, but know this, that if the Goodman of the house had known and what watched the thief would come, he would have watched and would not have suffered his house to be broken up. I understand that's a parable, but guess what? Oftentimes we see that carnal truths are used to illustrate spiritual truths. But guess what? The carnal truth is still a carnal truth. It's still true. It's still right. And we can still use it for doctrine. And what do you think the Goodman of the house would actually have done to not suffer his house to be broken up? He wasn't going to read that guy. Nursery rhymes. OK, I think we all know what's being implied there. He was going to love him to death. Brothers, why don't you you said that, you know, when you kind of looked at the scriptures, you ended up changing your mind. Is there any verses in your mind that kind of changed your your view on this particular doctrine? I mean, I would say something to the degree where just recently, just thinking of like Esther, you know, Esther and the Jews, you know, where they were basically begging, hey, you know what, you know, don't let us get destroyed. This is after Haman was killed. And I mean, I just pulled it up right now is Esther 811, where it says we're in the king granted the Jews, which were in every city, to gather themselves together and to stand for their life, to destroy, to slay and to cost the parish all the power of people in the province that would assault them. Think about that. Yeah, I mean, that's a good example also of self-defense. They're not going out looking for people to attack. They're basically saying we want to defend ourselves from attackers. Yeah, and the king, you know, he did a righteous thing. He granted them permission. I mean, it says, hey, you guys are allowed to kill to defend yourself. I mean, cost to perish. That means to kill people. It's like whatever you guys have to do. And this is both little ones and women and to take the spoil of them for praise. Like, hey, these people come after you. I'm not just giving you permission to kill them in self-defense, of course. It's like, you know, I'll take their crap for being stupid. So, of course, that's one of many verses. I mean, the other one that I thought of was like Abraham when Lot was taken captive. It says that he armed his trained servants. I wonder why he armed his trained servants, you know, so they could just practice fighting with swords for no reason. It was to defend themselves in case they ever got attacked. So I don't just going to bring that up, brother. It's funny you mentioned that. I just wanted to put it and say that we were thinking the exact same thing. I was going to bring the Abraham situation. Go ahead. I'm sorry. No, it's because it says they were trained. They weren't they weren't training for no reason. You know, they're training for self-defense, period, in case they got it. I wanted to just real quickly mention this in Second Chronicles 23. This is one of my favorite like talking points. I guess about this subject in verse nine. It says, Moreover, Jehoiada the priest delivered to the captains of hundred spears and bucklers and shields that had been King David's, which were in the House of God. Put that in your anti-gun limp-wristed pacifism pipe and smoke it right there. The House of God contained some weapons, my friend, and they were used to guard the eventual coronation of Joash from Athaliah. But I'm telling you that right there, I love that you have these weapons belonging to King David, which were in the House of God. And you know what? The houses, the houses of God that belong to the new IFB and other independent fundamental Baptist churches are also filled with guys that are packing heat, if you will, rightfully so. Well, and you know, I like the idea of talking about weapons. You use this verse and you're been a log. You talked about how Jesus literally told them to buy a sword with 22, which, you know, at the time is probably the deadliest weapon that they really have. I mean, you kind of, you have bows and stuff, but in a close proximity and close range, the sword is kind of your primary weapon today. The sword, you know, it's kind of like a knife or whatever we don't, you know, people don't really say carry swords around, but the modern equivalent is really a gun because, you know, you don't bring a knife to a gunfight unless you're just in really close proximity. The gun is going to win 90 some percent of the time, assuming the person can even kind of aim. But, you know, when it comes to weaponry, it's interesting because in Europe, they have certain countries and certain areas where when someone is attacking you, you can't go above their level of force. So like if they come with like a 13 inch knife, you can't come with like a 14 inch knife or something, something bizarre. Or like, I think if they come with like a bat, you can't come with a knife or something like you can only go to like their level of defense. You'd have to look it up. Exactly. We should look it up while we're on the show, but I've heard that in Europe, they literally have maybe someone in Europe's listening, but I believe they have certain laws that restrict the level of force that you're allowed to use when you're being attacked. Isn't that bizarre? That is completely idiotic. That is that is there's no logic to that whatsoever. Well, it would only be logical again, if you're a criminal. Yeah. Who's making these laws? Who's making these restrictions? No, and it's funny because these people, it's oftentimes the same people who want to strip away your right to defend yourself, who are then responsible for assaulting you. And what I mean is it's the same demographic. You look at a lot of these mass shooters, you look at a lot of these people who are bent to behave violently and go out and commit atrocities. They're often atheists. They're often evolutionists. They're often leftists. They're often people who hate God. So a bunch of God haters want to strip us of our God given right to defend ourselves. And they're the exact same people who are responsible for shootings and murders, things of that nature. So it just goes to show that this is really, I think, one of the big hypocrisies out there that comes from the enemy is wanting to strip us of our ability to defend ourselves when they themselves are responsible for most of the violence. How does that work? Well, you know, there's a lot of good self-defense videos and things online, have you seen the it's like the ASP videos that are online by the Segura? It's a guy who like walks through different self-defense videos and kind of like gives commentary. Have you seen those? No, I have not. I haven't seen any of those. All right. I want to try and play a video clip here if we can for a moment. And I hope you can hear it with us, brother Segura. But if not, we'll we'll tune you back in. But I want to play a little video clip here. And I really like the self-defense videos. This guy, I don't think you have you seen these guys videos before, but they've been not prior to today. I hadn't seen them. OK, it's pretty popular on YouTube. And this guy kind of walks through a lot of self-defense instruction, but I thought it'd be interesting to kind of watch this video and then kind of talk about from a biblical perspective, this guy's take it. I hope that we we can pull this up. He usually he always kind of finishes videos like you got to cover your ass because his company is called ASP. So let's see if we can get this thing pulled up. I don't know what kind of idiot would try to rob a gun store and think that's a good idea, but we're about to see why it's not. Hi, everyone, this is John with today's active self-protection lesson out of Mabelton, Georgia. It's going to show us an armed robbery here goes really badly for the armed robbers and teach us some important lessons about being ready, not only with your tools on you, but with your marksmanship and with your training to go in the moment. Shows us about what the realities are, what the true meaning of not drawing on a drawn gun are and about engaging multiple attackers successfully. Just another day at the gun shop here, this silver haired gentleman is just getting into the safe or whatever, and we see his other employee put his hands up because there's an armed robber. Well, this guy's going to go ahead and draw his own gun, start putting shots on target. You see the gun slide off as he puts multiple shots in that first guy. Second guy runs off and now the fight is over and our defender is going to go and see what's going on. I've sped it up just a little bit here so that we can kind of just get a sense of what happens. You can see all the dust flying everywhere because of other shots. Now the other employee has a gun out as well, but all the fighting is over at this point. And as the dust clears, you can see that that bad guy has taken the room temperature challenge. Now, there are eight lessons from this one, at least on our website. Go and click through the link for more on that. But let's talk about some of the most important ones here. And what we're going to see, first of all, is these ambushes happen to us. And what kind of idiot would rob a gun store? I don't know. But we see this guy here, the first employee, he's the first one that's got a gun pointed at him and he complies. And I think that's very wise because he has a gun just absolutely on him. The guy has his attention on him, the gun out and on target on him. And so he complies. You don't want to draw on a drawn gun in that instance. That was very wise. Now, as the owner or whatever, this other employee decides, hey, he sees it, you see him go back around. And I want to show you why we see him go off camera. If you go to their website, there's actually this picture of the store from another angle. And you can see these multiple safes on the left hand side. So what I'm seeing here is that the owner ducked around one of those safes so that he could conceal his draw, so that he wasn't out there in the open. And now we're going to see him go to work on these guys. So we see his gun come out in the very bottom on the right hand side here. And now look at how dangerous it is. I want you to see that that guy did swing the gun back over to him, saw it when he brought it out. So we have a very dangerous situation. It wasn't quite a drawn gun, but awful close. But thankfully our good guy puts the first shot on target. And you can see that starting to go. That first shot starts to hit him. And we say it all the time, the first one to put a shot on target is almost always going to win the fight. And thankfully, in this case, it was a good guy. Second shot starts going at him as well. If you go back and you look at the originals on the timestamps on this, about a 0.3 split, which in a defensive encounter, is a very fast follow up shot. He did a fantastic job on that one. Now we're going to see a third shot go into him as well, as he's trying to figure out, is this guy done? Is this fight over in this guy? Now he decides at that point, hey, I've given a serving. Thankfully our good guy puts the first shot on target. And you can see that starting to go. This is what we call the boarding house rules. I give that first guy a serving. Two, three shots. Make sure that he's out of the fight. Get over to the second guy before I come back to the first guy. Puts a serving on that guy as well. And now he starts taking follow ups. Everybody gets firsts. Now then everybody starts to look to get seconds. So he's taking six shots at least now. And now he's going to look. Nope, no more threat there. But I want to notice this owner here. This guy is trained and you can tell. He's not just a gun owner. He is a self defender. You can see great grip on that gun. Great stance. Great press out. And he looks over back to both of them. Does excellent follow up work here. Not only to see that the second guy is gone but to come back to the first guy after he's dealt with the second guy to make sure that he is completely out of the fight. And now he's going to go off and start his follow up actions. Now would be the time he's taking six shots at least out of his 1911 to get that spare mag. Get a proactive reload going. Would have been the right time just in case the fight came back. It didn't thankfully but that would have been the time to do it. And I also want to notice here as this kind of keeps on going you can see that the second employee here does have his gun out now in case it comes back. But you know what? You want to be careful with that. And he didn't draw his gun when he had the gun drawn on him which I think was wise. Finally one last thing that I want to see as everything clears up. You know you got to take those follow up actions. And if you have to stay in the vicinity of a downed attacker one thing I want to notice you can just barely see that they've left his gun there right where it was. And I get not wanting to touch it but I would slide it down the floor a little bit just in case that bad guy came back to that he couldn't get over and get his gun and continue to be a threat. But that's a very minor nit to pick. I think that this owner did a really fantastic job. Absolutely showed us how it was done to cover our asp. That was good. You know could you hear that brother Segura. Not from from knowing yes. I just went under because I wasn't hearing anything for about 90 90 percent. But I I just got on there on YouTube and I was able to catch it. So the last part. OK. Well I know what essentially it was a gun store and a couple of guys come in to rob the gun store. There's two employees. They get the first employee the second employees kind of got his back turned. But as soon as he noticed he kind of you know it's insinuated the commentator says he thinks he probably kind of ducked behind his safe a little bit drew his weapon pointed the first guy and got the first few shots off and then the second guy kind of evaded and left. And what I like about these guys videos is he shows real life experiences or real life situations because a lot of these you're not necessarily going to have real experience in because they're so rare or they only happen a few times and they're always going to be a lot quicker than you anticipate. So it's kind of interesting to watch these and get a little exposure just to see what real life situations are like because that was quick. I mean the guys walked in and in less than a few seconds I mean the ones down and shots were fired. And unfortunately that's what a lot of have a lot of times happens in these situations when people pull a gun. Now a couple comments I thought I like the idea he said maybe you should put in the second mag but I think it would depend. Maybe his handgun has 15 rounds or maybe it's like 15 plus one. I think if it was a 15 plus one if I've only fired six rounds I don't know if you take the risk to you know swap bags but if you were a six plus one or something maybe you only had one in the chamber. Yeah I absolutely think he probably should have switched mags whenever he kind of felt like it was coast is clear. One thing that was kind of weird is the second guy seemed to have some some weird pointing with his gun. I don't know if you notice this but like when the second guy is walking around with his gun it seemed like he was just kind of like even pointing it at his buddy and stuff like that. Nonchalant. I don't know if maybe he should have been aimed at the bad guy the whole time or maybe pointed it to the ground a few times when his friend kind of walked through the crosshairs a little bit. Seemed like he was seemed like he was just kind of there. He didn't know what was going on but you never want to point a gun at anybody that you're not willing to pull the trigger on. You know that's just gun safety. Number one you never want to point a gun whether you think it's loaded whether you think it's not whether you think the safety is on whether you feel like you're in control you just don't point guns at anything that you don't haven't decided already to pull the trigger on. And but again some good tips from that guy what did you think about the video. Well I think it was great that this person came in this assailant obviously to do some damage steal do whatever he wanted to do and it just gets blown away in a matter of five seconds. I mean it might have been even less than that just boom drops down into hell just like that and I hope that people who thought that they might want to try and pursue this themselves look at this video and think otherwise because man he was ready. You know the Bible says the horse is prepared against the day of battle. A lot of people kind of gloss over that and they focus on the part in Proverbs 21 31 where it says but safety is of the Lord and I agree with that obviously but the horse is prepared against the day of battle and videos like this when you watch a video like that and you see how that gun store owner reacted and you see how quick he was and how he drew his weapon when the enemy couldn't see him and then he turns around and blasts the guy and he just drops down into hell right. He's prepared. This is a guy who's prepared for something like this to occur. This was a horse that was prepared for the day of battle and we see the result of being prepared for the day of battle is reacting to a situation just like that gun store owner did real quick smooth easy and that was it. The threat was neutralized quickly and efficiently and that's what you want. You're shooting to live in situations like that Pastor. You're not you're not shooting because you enjoy killing people. You're shooting to live. That's the mentality. Have you have you seen anything like that Brother Segura in real life or maybe watch some videos on some of these real life encounters? I mean really quickly I agree with what Ben said you know what people that are like oh man guns this and that and whatever it's like listen we obviously believe that we're probably never going to use our guns but like Ben said you know safety is of the Lord but I would like to add is that but the Lord doesn't want us to be stupid you know if you have the right and in your country you can you know have guns that's probably the best way to fight for your rights is to exercise them you know so have the open carry in the appropriate places but you know to answer the question I haven't seen this actually did see a video from this guy I just recognized it when you pull him up but because I go to Mexico once a month and we've been going to Mexico once a month a month to win souls you know I was just wondering like what would I do in case somebody tries to kidnap us or whatever and this guy actually had a video on that you know where some guy was trying to get kidnapped by what they believe was the Mexican cartel you know so I do like this guy's videos I've seen maybe a couple I know one for sure the Mexico kidnapping by the cartels on what to do and they basically just showed you know you just got to turn the car and just keep going you know but yeah these things you know help us to just kind of mentally prepare you know so why because of course you know we know that God can protect us but let's just realize that God does want us to prepare the horse for battle and these videos can help us do that by being ready helping us to mentally prep so in case these situations do come up which I hope they never do you know but obviously the Lord in heaven if anything wants us to just be wise and it's a wise thing to just kind of wonder well what if you know somebody tries to kidnap us when we're in Mexico on a missions trip what would I do as a driver so this guy happens to have a video on that so I'm pretty much okay I think I'll be alright if that would happen but yes you know these videos are my opinion they're they're essential you know to let people know hey this is how it can look like obviously there's sound and everything involved but at least a visual is better than nothing well and I fortunately for for pure words we're representing pure words this evening we got to do a cool little challenge there's a gun range that's kind of an indoor gun range that I took a lot of the guys to as for just kind of a guy's trip and we got to shoot some automatic weapons which was nice and then they have a like a virtual reality simulator where you are put in a real-life situation and then you have to basically give verbal commands and then try to decide if you need to shoot or not and when to shoot and everything like that and it was really fun to watch people react in these situations because some people didn't know what to do and I have to tell this one story I've already told it before in a preaching one time but it's really funny so we had one guy and it was Elijah okay but he was it was his turn to go up and it was a bank robbery so he's basically you're walking up to a bank robbery in progress and the three bank robbers are kind of approaching outside they just walked out of the store they walked it's kind of like in a mall setting it's a bank in a mall so it's kind of open and he walks up and the three stand there and he points the gun at them and he says drop the money and the three people are kind of like they kind of put their hands up or whatever and he's like drop the money and then the guy drops his gun and then Eliza just shoots and kills all and I was like this seems like you were stealing you're trying to rob them like why did you say drop the money and then they drop their gun and he blasted all of them anyway it's like that's not gonna look very good to witnesses it's probably not what you want to do in a bank robbery situation he comes them to be the hero he basically just blast them as soon as they put their gun down but that is hilarious I just had to share that my scenario that I went through was a college setting like you were in an active shooter and they had some guy who I'm kind of coming up and he's like don't shoot I'm so glad you're here whatever but he was like lying to me he wasn't really he was actually the shooter and then all of a sudden he ducks and grabs his gun but but fortunately I put a couple rounds in him before he could kill me so it was it was kind of interesting but there was one and I don't know that anybody would have been able to survive this one but it was like a home invasion and and the person popped out and the guy blasted and killed them and then like it seems like it's fine and then all of a sudden just randomly another person pops out and shoots and kills you and it was like you just kind of like didn't anticipate the second person whatsoever and so you know it was good to go through that experience was another one where was a lady the guy has a knife to her throat and the guys like trying to get him to put the knife down but it happens so fast that the guy slits her throat if you don't shoot him like almost instantly Wow and so I think you know actually going through those simulators and kind of seeing what it's really like in these active suitor situations how fast things go you kind of almost have no idea how quickly you would have to respond potentially and as soon as someone puts people in these type of situations it's best to just respond immediately yeah seems like very quick just like that gun store owner I mean he knew his life was a danger and so he just decided to just take his life in his own hands a fire back and and that was probably his best chance of surviving or living in that situation because you never know how those things are gonna go down exactly right you know it would be a fun scenario actually I'm not gonna say that nevermind you know what rather Segura have you because we're talking about simulation here and one thing I wanted to ask you is have you ever been in a scenario where it was your life or your assailants life that you're willing to share with us not pretty much the closest thing is just combat when we got ambush without hesitating like that gun star owner you just naturally react and start firing back you know so all I can do is just fire back and try to focus and that's pretty much all you can do in that situation because I noticed that pulling the trigger is not that difficult when bullets are going your way so I just started firing back and I just stay calm try to stay focused and I might have shot probably 10-15 rounds the entire time I was in combat but some people just let loose it just fired and kept firing I kept kind of yell like what are we firing at because I knew I only had so many bullets yeah so I wasn't about to just run out of bullets in my very first firefight but that's about the only situation I've ever been where we've got fired upon and actually fired live rounds back you know even though I didn't aim at anybody specific because I couldn't see anyone it was just an ambush just like a fire back immediately and that's all you can do it's like hey just fire back you feel you're in danger you see a gun fire back bullets coming your way you basically see where it's coming from but obviously I hope no one ever goes to that through that out here you know just living their daily lives well a verse that came to my mind when watching that clip was in Matthew 26 verse 52 Jesus is talking to Peter and he he you know Peter pulls out a sword and cuts off one of the servants of the high priest ear but then Jesus says this put up again my sword into his place for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword and I think while obviously we want to balance the scripture we want to realize that self-defense is important we don't want to necessarily just fight people to fight people or be quick to shoot someone or quick to yeah called arms and and basically it's kind of insinuating that people that just live this really careless mindset they're willing to just pull out guns and they're willing to basically go to task with people and to fight people they're often gonna lose their life from exactly that situation you know it makes me think of and this is not a godly movie but I even referenced in this sermon the other day but it's Troy and it's talking about Helen of Troy was this woman that was taken into Troy and basically her previous husband is going the Greeks I believe are going to rescue her back but what happens is at the beginning of the movie his I believe it's like his mother it's some lady in the show I think it's his mom or grandma basically it sits him down and says you know if you don't go and fight you're gonna have a wife and kids and have a happy life but if you do fight you're gonna have a name for yourself but you're gonna die and and I think that you know at least it's kind of similar to this verse about the fact that if you're gonna fight if you're gonna constantly go you know on the battlefield and and you live by the sword basically as it were live with the gun to your attached to your hip ready to pull it any moment you're probably gonna die because of it that's why we see a lot of gangsters and mobsters and and young people that are constantly going into shootouts and these things they're gonna die and so it's it's something that you want to take with a lot of soberness you don't want to be quick to pull out a weapon it's it's kind of a last defense it's not something that you have to necessarily engage in and when they were taking Jesus there was no threat necessarily physical threat they were just going to arrest him and so someone's gonna arrest me for my preaching I don't believe that's the time to call to arms to pull out a gun to pull out a knife you know but there is gonna be a time to somewhat defend yourself and I have a clip I know you guys are anxious to say something but I have a clip of someone interrupting church service that I think brother Segura you know is aware of might as well get his reaction we might as well get some feedback here but I think he knows what's coming let's play let's play this clip I think brother Tim's got it pulled up for us of a faithful word service person not throwing out some Trinity heretics what and there's somebody that's wants to interrupt the service can we play that clip hey sit down sit down what do you what are you coming up here to do you want it you want to come take over the service huh what do you want what I just want to get out of here no you can't no get him out of here drag this bozo out pull him out hey help him out get him out and you know what anybody wants to come over the service we'll throw you out of here buddy this church is not a free-for-all this isn't an open mic this isn't a karaoke bar okay I'm the man of God here I meet the qualifications I run this church and if you don't like it then get out this is not some church where every first-time visitor and brand-new believer and people have never even read the Bible are gonna come up and take over the service brother Segura really he acted quickly there he was like that gun store owner you're breaking the law interrupted the service can we get his reaction so we played the clip and I'll give brothers good context because I don't know if you heard their clip or not but I mean and just FYI we I got a cookie break here so you know it's really good yeah this guy's going down on cookies we're live podcast sorry we can't you know send his email to your brother cigarette but they taste really good so they've a word was was having to deal with some serious doctrinal issues a bunch of Trinity denying freaks were in the church and they'd been thrown out and then we had some kind of reverb where a few other people decided to start denying the Trinity to we had to get them thrown out well in the middle of Pastor Anderson having to deal with a severe church issue severe doctrinal issue having to fire one of his employees who was faithful for a long time theoretically you know in the in the middle of doing this some random visitor just walks up and approaches Pastor Anderson and he's like can we pray he's like no he's like can I get a little grace and he's like no and then you see brothers a girl just running across the room putting on these black gloves with eyeglasses and he's like you're breaking the law right now and we see brother Segura and some other men help this gentleman out of the service yes and rightfully so what was what was going through your mind when that was happening for this girl nothing I just reacted that's all I could do at the moment you know and just try to push him away and try to get him to comply so that's why I was yelling at him making it clear that he's breaking the law so he can just leave you know because even though I didn't mention it in the beginning you know I was in a Marine Corps but as soon as I got out of the Marine Corps also went to the police academy you know so in the police academy they ingrained in you to be a peacemaker even though you of course don't see that you know because there's so many videos on YouTube where cops are just beating up people you know doing all kinds of crazy things shooting people you know primarily they do preach hey you guys need to be peacemakers that's why it's called the you know peace academy they didn't even call it the police academy so I was just thinking hey you know let's try to just get this guy to comply verbally use that verbal judo that they teach her about and obviously he wasn't so then we had to get this cause as physical as we could you know and we just started to just grab him and push him and we were willing to drag him out lucky enough he his senses came back to him and he started to just walk and he decided to just leave you know he wanted to just grab his stuff from the cherry grab whatever he brought him out about a Bible whatever the case but we don't know who this guy was and I don't think I got to him fast enough and I was even told by someone you didn't get to my husband fast enough and I agree you know because obviously at the moment I'm not thinking we're gonna have to deal with a protester I'm just thinking a you know we just kicked out a few people and I'm emotional everybody's emotional and then this guy on the wrong day shows up and of course you don't know what to think of this guy but it was clear that he wasn't listening at that point I'm like hey I got to just drag this guy out it's the first time I went to my mind and I figured okay let's try to see if this guy would just comply just by telling them hey you're gonna get out of here you're breaking the law that didn't work so we have to get physical but we got physical about 10 seconds and sure enough he started to just kind of walk on his own but we made a few mistakes and listen if that ever happens in your church and the reason I want to say this is because it can happen more likely it's gonna happen as your pastor preaches hard there's some idiot is gonna go in there and try to disrupt but one mistake that we made because now looking back it seems like faithful word is kind of the Academy for other Baptist churches like we're the tip of the spear for things like these you know so learn from our mistakes and here's one mistake we took our eyes off the guy once he left the building nobody really paid attention to the guy he left and he started walking towards the street nobody I don't think anybody kept looking on and we kind of just wanted to go back to the service as fast as possible but who knows that this guy's going to his vehicle yeah who knows if he's going vehicle popping that try and get in the shotgun and come back yeah that was a huge mistake and the second mistake as well is once you get somebody out once you get him out of the building you have to call the police because who knows they've been coming back right so get the police involved even if they run even if they take off get the police roll in because you want them in the area in case this guy gets worse you know you could just pick up something it could be who knows even even a traffic cone that you're using to block off some spots so you know maybe you're saving them for whoever and they could just pick that up and use it as a weapon so looking back I'm like man we made a mistake I took my eyes off the guy should at least told somebody a keep an eye on him but then again we should have called the police and make sure they rolled in give the description of the guy telling me disrupted a service because I don't know if it's the same in Texas but in Arizona you don't have rights once you walk into a church building private property your constitutional rights go out the window you don't have the right to disrupt and say whatever you want you don't even have the rights to open carry you don't have the rights even carry if we don't want to you know you walk through our doors a is our way or the highway period that's just how the laws are right now so if this guy doesn't want to leave with a verbal we don't have to give him a second warning he doesn't have freedom of speech he had doesn't have the right for nothing except get his butt kicked if he doesn't want to comply you know but that's the last resort so of course about drag him out hopefully complies hopefully he's not a crazy individual that we have to take down some guy on drugs or whatever you know but yeah make sure if you kick somebody out you should call the police so they can at least you know stop the guy and ask him what his problem is and even warn him that if he comes back at least our our police department scares people and tells them listen you come back you're going to get arrested no questions asked you know you've been officially banned for three years I forgot what they call it but it's a criminal trespassing I'm not sure but they warned him saying you can't come back here for another three years I don't know if that's true but the last couple times because this isn't the only time this has happened the police said hey you know what I'm gonna tell him he can't come back for three years or whatever the case but if he comes back just call us and we'll arrest them you don't even have to charge him we'll just arrest him and give him a night in jail whatever the case but the other thing also is maybe check his pocket see what the heck the guy has he could have a gun in his waist he could have guns in his pocket we made a few mistakes make no exceptions but learn from those mistakes and I'm glad we're talking about non-violence because our goal is to yes non-violently remove somebody from church you know but if the guy starts swinging or whatever then we're prepared now more than ever I mean we even had a meeting where it was all the men and we let the kids kind of watch and they were able to beat me up and I was the aggressor and I interrupted services so now our guys man they're like quick to respond and drag people out you know so we're gonna try to do it once a year where we just have a man's meeting after the morning service and we already had one I think less than six months ago and I played the bad guy and sure enough I disrupted the church service and guys popped up and told me hey leave get out of here because they're one and done somebody gives up starts dealing with the pastor somebody gives up doesn't listen to the pastor they're done we don't care if they're a church member it's like you're done for today go home go home get out here you disrupt and just escort him out because you don't know if this guy is gonna actually comply so whether he's a church member or not if somebody disrupts the service they need to go at least for the morning service and just say they're done walk them out hey I don't know I don't think we should call the police on a church member or whatever unless they get really stupid but some strange guy just have the police roll over and kind of stop and figure out what the problem is you know but yeah we made a few mistakes with that video but there was no way that that guy was a church member we don't even know who the guy was you know at your church so use that video and kind of you know like this guy who makes videos you know what to do what ifs or whatever this is kind of like our faithful word Baptist what if to the Baptist churches of America in the world you know because you just never know when it's gonna happen but just realize that you might want to just call the police keep your eye on them the entire time and hopefully it doesn't happen but just be ready for it but that's all that went through my mind get this guy out of here you know as peaceful as possible and not just drag him out by his ankles and you know have people film it and pretend like we're this violent group here in Tempe Arizona I think that's great this is like cover your church's ass and with brother Chris Segura and I really I really appreciate your point about keeping an eye on him afterwards because not only could he go to his vehicle get a weapon come back he could also just start damaging vehicles just because he's mad that he got thrown out of the service or he could be slashing tires or cutting brakes or or doing all kinds of weird stuff and he's already shown himself to be a disruptor so you know you kind of don't really this guy's the limit as far as the potential of what this person may do next and so and that's a great tip on not even when it seems like the situation has de-escalated or it's gone back to normal that you still need to be cautious and you still need to think about what other scenarios and situations may occur I even like the training aspect about kind of preparing men getting people kind of ready for those scenarios and you know praise the Lord that this was a pretty mild situation I mean it's probably about the best case scenario for someone actually disrupting the service just to kind of get everybody prepared mentally and to go through it to then learn from it to say hey you know what we we don't we didn't necessarily handle this exactly how he wanted to but it gives us a great opportunity to fine-tune some things figure out some weaknesses and and do better if it even got worse and I mean faithful words got to be one of the dumbest places to go and try to attack or try to disrupt the service so many people are carrying weapons they're very highly trained very good security that would be a suicide mission to say the least and on top of that you got the Lord's army you got God in there he's gonna confirm people and confuse people but be known that the horse is prepared against the day of battle but safeties of the Lord for that one yeah what do you think about that video and commentary well he was crazy we know that this was a guy who had severe mental issues thinking he was Michael the Archangel wanted a prayer red supposedly I thought it was a quick response just watching from the video but I can see what you're saying now brother Segura as you analyze it you know that individual and also Pastor Shelley it's it's good that he wasn't more dangerous than that right it's good that he was just some mental illness patient who escaped from the ward amen and you know apparently just wanted to have a prayer read so you know the devil was attacking faithful word Baptist Church severely that day brother Segura because you not only had the bombshell drop that a trusted church member was actually a oneness heretic which seemingly came out of nowhere but then you also have this guy in an unrelated situation I mean you want to talk about the absolute not only is it the worst church to interrupt but the worst possible service to interrupt in the worst possible you could ever interrupt and then you know so you know brother Segura you run up to him and the rest is history the video actually recently went viral again on tik-tok a bunch of morons on tik-tok we're upset at Pastor Anderson for how he handled that one because I guess in their minds he should have stepped aside let that mentally mental illness patient step behind the pulpit and read a bunch of gibberish yeah just just make him the pastor oh yeah yeah just go ahead hands on him yeah why not I mean it's just a free-for-all right yep you know I think honestly given the fact that there's not really any real-life experience prior to that I felt like the situation played out pretty well I do think that obviously obviously there's things to learn from and to get better and to tighten the ship but I was appreciative I was in the service so I saw it real life I was sitting right there I was really close to the front row and it was bizarre but from my it up um no because I didn't I didn't even know exactly what the right protocol was I wasn't necessarily one of the security and and I kind of find it's best to let the people that are actually supposed to do their job do their job first before you kind of step because I don't want to like get in their way either and so and I've even tried to tell my people like you know if there's an issue let our Usher team or security team handle it first we don't want other people to try and necessarily jump in but you know if there's a problem and you're right there you know yeah maybe you kind of jump in I was sitting with my boys and my wife was in the mother baby room area and so I didn't they were just kind of with me so but obviously if it got weird or something a lot of men stood up to kind of get to kind of like jump in but Seguro was I felt like he was just like speed walk he was like running while walking and it was just like he's putting those gloves on so fast and he just got in there and it seemed like it was over pretty quick it happened real quick and it was over pretty quick and praise God but it was high tension and it was it was you know it's it's great to go through those things someone asked in the video or asked in the YouTube comments what was the name of the gun range it's Athena Gun Club in Houston so if you go to Athena Gun Club you can do some of those real-life active shooting drills and and I like drills you know there's a prepared place for a prepared person and I believe that the Lord wants us to be prepared in every single way and if you're gonna have a weapon if you're gonna actually have the the desire to defend yourself it makes sense to practice to think about it to identify a strategy and a plan and and try to think about all the scenarios while you're calm collected because once the situation happens a lot of adrenaline a lot of excitement is going to come in it's gonna be harder to think about those things that's where you kind of need that muscle memory and that planning and practice to come alongside of those intense situations so that way you can handle them appropriately you already know what to do hey brother Segura what about a situation where you had to de-escalate somebody who was really angry with you it wasn't necessarily that your life was in danger or anything perhaps it could have escalated at that point where it got physical but have you ever been confronted with somebody who was foaming at the mouth and yelling and screaming at you maybe even threatening you and you had to just kind of you didn't meet force with force but rather you were able to de-escalate the situation you were able to walk away and everything turned out all right is there something like that that you might be able to share with us I mean absolutely I think one that that um the most recent one was there was somebody who just showed up at church and I didn't know who this person was and he just comes up to me and he's like hey is your brother gay and I didn't know what he meant by that I'm like what you know what are you talking about and so what ends up happening is this guy's like oh I'm just kidding I'm just kidding and I'm like okay you know it's like oh I listen to Pastor Anderson and this and that and whatever the case I'm like all right and I'm on top of the hood of our church van just cleaning it getting it ready for the soul winners for for this after for that Sunday's afternoon so many and so this guy just starts asking me a bunch of questions like is Pastor Edison gonna be here you know I'm here to see Pastor Anderson I want to ask him some questions etc etc and I'm like well he shows up at 1025 because he was giving me bad vibes and I'm just like okay and he had this this look like some kind of sea bag big gigantic bag look like he was just passing through and then he wants to go into the building but of course this is 9 a.m. and we got some teenagers in the building practicing music getting ready for the service so I'm like no you can't go in there and he said well why is that and I told him listen we got some people in there practicing their teenagers we don't know who you are I don't want them to feel weird you know was this God's house or is this your house I'm like well this is God's house but listen I'm in charge of it right now he's like oh really he's well who are you who I am you know I'm the guy in charge bottom line you cannot go in there oh really you know so he throws his bags down and he says well let me tell you something this is God's house you know I'm I'm a child of God I can just go in there anytime I want you know and I'm like no you can't this is Pastor Anderson's you know place that he's in charge of and when he's not here I'm in charge and bottom line is we pay the bills and we can do whatever we want with this building and of course you're not going in there and he's like oh really it's like yeah he's like then he starts saying all kinds of crazy stuff to me and he's like you just think you're tough because blah blah blah blah and you finally got a job with a little bit of respect and now you're tripping and this and that and whatever and so I'm like all right no problem you know so I get off the van and the guy is trying to provoke me to fight him you know so he's just calling me names he's saying all kinds of baton crazy stuff to me you know and he's obviously just doing this thing and I'm like listen listen this house is gonna end you know you're either gonna leave or you're gonna be forced to leave he's gonna force me no I'm not gonna force you but you see my phone I'm about to call the PD and they're gonna force you and you will leave and this is private property and if I want you you can be here and if I don't you don't you can't be here you know oh yeah well go ahead and call the police and whatever and so of course the guy says they're yelling at me provoking me calling me whatever and he's like I've been to prison you know I'm like okay what not and I had to get brother Raymond involved like Raymond they come out here did this guy getting aggressive I just want you to keep an eye on him so obviously if something happens you know you can help me handle it you know but the guy was just yelling at me and just trying to get me to fight him and yeah of course it took a while for the PD to get there because it wasn't an emergency I called an emergency number told him that some homeless guy and he got upset I'm not homeless I'm like dude where you coming from but at the end of the day here's what happened the police showed up and exactly what I said was gonna happen happen they told him listen is there a building they can do what they want they don't want you there you don't you don't have to be there and of course the guy you know he had been to jail I don't know what for I can only imagine you know but then the guy ends up just saying hey you know I'm gonna be here until Pastor Anderson shows up and we're like fine you can be here but you have to be off our property so lucky enough the guy did calm down but he was trying to provoke me saying things to me but there's no real reason to get physical in that situation but before that there was another guy who was just sleeping outside our building some young guy and same thing happened to him we kicked him out we told him not to come back and he shows up again and sure enough I see him in the building and I walk up to him like hey you already know the rules you're not supposed to be here you've been kicked out and he said well I'm not leaving I'm like okay and at that time we had a couple guys in the building they'll come up to me they're like hey you want to just drag them out I'm like no it's like it's 10 a.m. we got 30 minutes before the service starts there's no reason to get physical now we got children around hey just let it be we'll call the police let them come take him out and drag him out so that's what we just ended up doing we'll let the police do their job because quite frankly the police they have medical insurance they got the tasers they got the pepper sprays they got the dogs hey they get paid let them come and drag this guy out why do we have to do it and the guy ends up fighting back and next thing you know we're wrestling him or he bites us because that's the thing about people that can't bite or they can't fight it they just start to bite and the last thing I want is for my guys to get bit or me to get bit handling some idiot when we got 30 minutes before the service yeah he was talking to smack and annoying us but what are we about you know we're about being peacemakers and as best we could we try to you know get this guy to leave peacefully but he made it very clear that he's not gonna leave and I'm pretty sure you wanted us to drag him out so he can sue us that's kind of what I fell in the back of my mind so I'm thinking you know what just do what the police told us to do even when I was a security guard after I went you know through the Academy the police will show up and tell us listen just observe and report you don't have to get physical with anybody even if they're stealing stuff even if they're trying to fight someone else just call us tell us what they look like we'll show up and that's that's where I got it from they said listen we got we got the medical insurance you know we got the batons we got the pepper spray we got the tasers that we even got the guns it's like you don't need to get involved you don't need to get physical you know so let them talk their trash and just call the PD praise the Lord you know I know you guys have a different story but praise the Lord the PD out here is pretty decent you know so they came in to remove both individuals without incident and it just told them listen this is your verbal you know this is good for three years you come back we're gonna arrest you for criminal trespassing this is their building they can do whatever they want make whatever rules they want but this is God's house this is God's house and he's like what are you even here for well I'm here to talk to the pastor you know I'm on my way to Alabama or something to go talk to Ken Hovind so this is some Ken Hovind crazy fan I just wanted to stop by and cause trouble these pastors time you know a PTW at least I called those people PTW is professional time wasters you know that's all this guy wanted to do was wait pastor Anderson's time you know so yeah he just got violent or he got very aggressive all of a sudden I'm thinking really you know so I have to get Raymond just gonna be out there with me and that's what you want to do if you don't have a camera I told Raymond pull out the camera every time we have an incident it's like hey pull up the camera right as part of our security detail you know we already got a guy who's the designated camera guy if somebody wants to fight get physical or whatever we think we may have to get physical it's like look you're the one that's gonna bust out the camera you know you guys are gonna be the ones that's gonna help me drag this guy out I can't get involved because I have to be on the phone with the PD you know so I got to describe and talk and walk and do whatever and so that's kind of how we handle it a faithful word but obviously if no one's putting their hands on us we're not gonna put our hands on them but you know what if we have to we will we will have to physically remove someone but you know we got what we need to get the job done you know we're not gonna handcuff people but we did invest some money and some plastic zip ties that we can just type people if worst case scenario comes but our intention is not to touch people somebody's being a pain in the butt somebody wants to get physical you know we're not even thinking of that you know we're thinking about a let's just try to get this thing outside call the PD right away let's just try to get this thing ended so we can continue with the church service you know but that's our mentality it's like a my last the last thing I want to do is get physical have one of my church members get physical there's no point for what okay so they disrupt the service that point when we have to remove that guy we have to do it on the spot you know cuz he's interrupting a church service and of course we're all heated emotional it is what it is hopefully that never happens but if it's before the service that's when I kind of you know feel like I'm in you know I'm ahead of the game just because we can just call the PD and they must have like ten incident numbers with my name on it you know just from dealing with little things here and there you know but yeah absolutely as far as getting physical with people they got up in my face you know it has happened at church and at work you know being a cable guy guy got in my face because I took his parking spot you know and he was up in my face ready to fight me and all I can do is just try to apologize and make peace with the guy and he just kind of you know told me off or whatever but the funny thing is he saw me later on in the day and he comes up to me and literally taps me in the shoulder I turn around I'm like hey what's going on he's like I just want to apologize for acting that way earlier man I didn't mean it I'm just having a bad day and I felt that too when we broke off the first time he confronted me and got in my face you know and started to cuss me out I just thought like Lord forgive this guy he's just having a bad day this is a normal behavior yeah so later on in the day he did say that I'm just having a bad day I'm like no problem gives me a fist pump and just we move our separate ways and it was cool after that so I don't know it has to be something super crazy like life-threatening or to get at least for me to want to get physical because there's no point you know I don't want to I don't want to lose a tooth I don't I don't want to hurt anyone you know I'm just I'm just trying to be a peaceful guy until I die you know but obviously being a faithful word I'm the first person that probably has to make contact with any crazy to walks in and we have plenty of those throughout the years but they usually leave or whatever when we you know threaten them with the police so so far we have that but like you said faithful word is the dumbest place to come in and cause trouble or even try to shoot up the place because we've got just so many people with guns I mean I don't know how many bullets we have every single Sunday but I wouldn't be surprised if it's over 200 you know because if we got ten guys with at least 16 bullets each you know that's 160 bullets a thousand in my opinion I wouldn't be surprised if it's a thousand and we got ladies with guns I mean obviously I carry two guns on me once on nine lethal the other ones lethal you know so if I do have to kind of like use one I'm gonna use the one with the pepper spray and hope that stops them if not then whatever we'll move to the next well escalate it is if it needs to be but we're pretty peaceful Church I mean these things happen but we kind of laugh him off but we're more than ready but obviously violence is not the first thing that comes to my mind even when people were like a let's drag this guy out I'm like no hold up man we got 30 minutes before the service stars bro just relax right I'm sitting there let him say it's happy but in there and think he won because we're gonna win this war we may lose the battle right now cuz he ain't listening to us he's punking us he's make a look stupid in front of people especially the kids but let's just show the kids how to handle the situation and just watch and observe him hey I'm on the phone don't worry about it trust me he'll leave and as soon as the police showed up he already had been warned once as soon as they walk in they're like you again he's like come here he literally just got up immediately and walked out but this guy even got in my face in the past and he's like oh you want to fight me you want to fight me I'm like no I just put on my gloves in case he tries to do something cuz if I'm gonna get into a fight might as well put some gloves on you don't want gloves on in his face it's like oh you want to fight you wanna fight he got close to me I'm like bro even if you hit me a full swing you're a skinny little dude you know I think I'll be fine but yeah absolutely you just got to be right of course calling the cops is a great option I know that brother Oz all he had to do is basically cough his first name and the cops already knew to come to steadfast just because we've had so many stupid protesters and Satanists and everything and for some reason the cops love the Satanists they love to give hugs to them and they lie to us all the time but that's a different story you got to appreciate those camera guys I like how he says he pulls out the camera especially when you got people like Tyler Baker getting thrown out of church you got to appreciate that camera guy sneaking in there and getting that video so we can all watch that's a I appreciate that camera guy also document everything well I want to say this about brothers agora there's not just the the human element when it comes to self-defense and and that's one thing you got to learn from brothers agora I remember getting in the church van with him this is a couple years ago but we're about to go salt winning and he puts a taser about two inches from my face and just totally catch the thing just like me out but I guess he was like hey look at this cool thing I got to ward off dogs almost taste me bro but you know animals can even be a real threat especially since we're so winning Baptists here you know and and those tasers they do work have you ever had to use the taser though outside of just clicking it to scare away an animal brothers agora no sir the Lord has blessed us with great technology in 2021-22 and moving forward man you know seriously they need to make a taser that works like that for human dogs so what do you think about those stories brother Ben well I think it proves that we're not these like violent you know looking for a fight brutes or something like that because that's all we're painted when we talk about the right to self-defense when we talk about owning a firearm obviously the first instinct is to de-escalate the Bible says a soft answer turn at the way wrath and there are certain individuals and brother Segura brought up a particular scenario in which someone was trying to fight him and being belligerent but he gave him a soft answer apologized for whatever it is that angered the guy and then later on he comes up to him and says hey you know what I was just having a bad day I'm sorry and you know what the Bible does teach to love your enemies and somebody who would do that to me you know I actually had a situation one time where I was driving and out of nowhere somebody drove right up to me pulled his window down and claimed that I had been tailgating him and was just super pissed off at how I was driving and I honestly don't even remember doing that I thought it was a false accusation I don't even remember it but I was just like well look I'm sorry didn't mean to do that and just immediately his countenance changed and he was like okay we'll have a great day I mean it was like a 10-second just switch for really being really pissed off at me to just all of a sudden everything was fine and with normal people you know just you give them a soft answer you just try and and move on from the situation at the end of the day we're not like that's not what we're here to fight right we're involved in spiritual warfare we fight over the gospel we fight over good doctrine we fight over things that actually matter not dumb carnal disputes so when it comes to conflict our first instinct should be the soft answer our first instinct should be to de-escalate now there are situations where it doesn't work and no matter how hard you try to calm the person down they're belligerent they want to fight you they want to take your life even and then that's when you move to physicality that's when you move to using lethal force if necessary to protect yourself and protect your loved ones but obviously our first instinct is to try and calm things down and that's why I wanted to ask that question earlier because I feel like people kind of they miscast us as looking for a fight or something like that just because we believe in the Second Amendment which is the furthest thing from the truth now I want to kind of get to kind of our final points here is there is there kind of one like last thing that you really are wanting to get to or talk about brother Ben or should we try to take maybe some more questions if you have a question you can always drop that down we hopefully will get our Collins back for the next few episodes but I can still drop in a question we are doing the show live and that's why I get to enjoy these live cookies because they're just they're delicious have you had one I have had more than one okay good so far all right they are really good we'll have this you know have brother Zagura over so that he can have some you're now brother Zagura you're preaching in Houston this Thursday is that correct yes sir so if you haven't heard brother Zagura preach you know it's like a real-life two-time speed YouTube video where brother Zagura comes and he preaches to you faster than you can even believe it and then that's one of the things I love about brother Zagura is he gives you so much information so quickly but it's all really good information and brother Zagura is he's a good preacher he's got a lot of zeal very hard worker very dependable you gotta love brother Zagura and man he's definitely not someone that would ever call to arms but he's not someone you want to mess with at all probably one of the last people that you want for him to feel like you're a threat and there's no other alternative to use deadly force and so do you have something we had something in the chat that I wanted to mention courtesy of Pastor Aaron Thompson he said we had a guy come in and ask if he could work with the children he was wasted on drugs and alcohol he took a swing at one of our ushers and that was a big mistake he got tossed out so I mean that's a pretty quick way to get thrown on your ass on the sidewalk if you try and take a swing at one of the ushers of a New Testament Baptist especially our brand of independent fundamental Baptist Church so interesting story there from Pastor Thompson I wanted to make a quick comment and then you guys can respond to either the Pastor Thompson story or what I'm about to say but you know when it comes to firearms right I've heard the argument and they'll use Proverbs 21 31 to do this well I thought safety was on the Lord why do you need your gun guns are the false idol of Christianity you're relying on guns instead of God well here's why this is so idiotic it's so dumb because firearms would be the tool or the means by which God can help us achieve safety you see when the Bible says safety is of the Lord that means when I pull out my Glock 23 and I pointed at the home invader and pull the trigger the Lord is helping me to do that he's helping me to pull the trigger he's he's enabling me to shoot accurately and use this tool this weapon to protect myself and my family so it's completely just stupid to claim that guns are some sort of idol or whatever so our vehicles an idol too because we use them as a method to go from place to place what about any other tool that you would use for any other activity right so it's like they'll come up with any argument to try and discredit the use of firearms by specifically Christians and I don't think that's what the Bible teaches whatsoever again it's a tool that the Lord can help us use effectively to protect ourselves well we're gonna use that logic what will be the difference from saying you know instead of me going out and getting in my car and driving to work and working and earning a paycheck you know I'm just gonna trust the Lord to put money in my bank account exactly or you know any any item of our life did David when he was gonna fight Goliath just stand there and just say like I know God's gonna kill you or did he put a rock and a slingshot sling it around and toss it at the Giants forehead and crush it and then go and slice his head off with the dude's sword so obviously the Lord was fighting with David he's he's guiding David you know and there's a lot of symbolism even there because he's trusting in the rock which is a picture of Jesus Christ and Jesus Christ is what's laid the giant and obviously David was extremely outmatched and he trusted in the Lord to deliver him but at the same time he's trusting the Lord to give him the strength to give him the mental capacity to fight correctly and to win over this giant you know even in the battle of AI it's interesting how they fight this battle they're trusting in the Lord to deliver them but what they do is they initially go up and they start fighting but then they kind of retreat and like a fake retreat to try and make it seem like they have lost the battle and they have men lying in wait that come behind them and they burn the city which basically ends up giving them the victory and and it's like it's not that they weren't trusting the Lord in that victory they started to do something I mean even Jericho they still have to blow the trumpet I mean they still had and they saw the shout you know so it's not like God wants us to do absolutely nothing we just lay down in the fetal position and say God you know is my shepherd I mean obviously God is going to guide us the Bible says he teaches my hands to war and so we believe that God is in coordination with our steps with our actions with our thoughts he you know the steps of a good man are ordered by the Lord but we still have to take that step we still have to take you know the action into our own hands and what better than using a gun when you have the opportunity in America especially or maybe the state of Texas or Arizona we have constitutional carry why not have a gun and say Lord you know help me with this if I ever need to use it in those kind of situations in those kind of scenarios you know and it is a last resort I wish that we had brother Dylan Oz on on the show this evening because he had a recent encounter where someone's chasing him down it was a crazy car chase the guy was a complete psycho probably demon-possessed and brother Oz was in a situation where he's getting to a point where if he got cornered you know he might have to actually use deadly force praise the Lord he didn't have to though yeah and he even had to endure several minutes of extreme danger and not being safe but he wasn't trigger-happy wasn't going to necessarily use that unless it was absolutely necessary and so we find that balance of is it necessary and and I think sometimes people twist the Bible they'll twist Matthew chapter number five where it talks about resist not evil but if someone smites the on a cheek to turn them the other cheek also right and and that's kind of the essence of this pacifist type argument but the Bible is not saying you know if he shoots you in the heart let him shoot you in the head too you know we're talking about getting smitten on the cheek is kind of like just a picture of disrespect it's kind of a you know this this just provoking this kind of just intimidating and and of course the Bible teaches that we have should have some level of tolerance to the fact that we would allow someone to hurt us a little bit or damages a little bit as long as it's not life-threatening as long as it's not you know necessary for us to respond we should just walk away you know you don't have to punch back you don't have to push back you don't have to slap back you don't have to talk back even you can just let people say mean things to you say evil things to you and just ignore them move on in fact for our church and a lot of churches like ours where they've had violent seeming protesters or you know at least their their words are pretty violent and in what they're saying they're threatening us you know that the threats are coming out the lies are coming out it's best to just completely ignore them just de-escalate not engage because they want you to push them back they want you to engage so then they have the legal right to actually fight you to actually hurt you or to harm you and so it's better to just walk away from these scenarios be the bigger man as it were and just try to get out of there but if you get to a point like Kyle Rittenhouse where you're trapped between two cars and a pedophile you know you do you shoot the pedophile and praise the Lord for people like Kyle Rittenhouse and praise the Lord that you know what a jury found him innocent did you watch any of that trial brother Segura I did I did and I was glad that you think about it I mean I thought a prosecutor was a total idiot you know you could tell that it was not about it was not about you know justice whatsoever just this wicked prosecutor puffed up in his own mind thought he could make himself look good by being on national television it completely backfired the guy didn't know how to hold a gun I don't think he knew how to even I don't think he knew any safety rules whatsoever you know but yeah it went great for the kid and you know I heard it he's out here at Arizona State maybe he'll visit us one day and we'll be like yo can you go read this I already got permission from the pastor that's funny yeah I mean the prosecutor literally pointed to the AR that Kyle had used at the jury I believe is that not what he did yeah he broke everything he broke every safety rule under the Sun he had his finger in the trigger you know he aimed at things he's not supposed to aim I don't even know if the weapon was unsafe but I highly doubt it knowing him you know but it was funny how he's trying to he's trying to act like he's this gun expert and aims it at the at the jury you know trying to scare them to show them how terrified this pedophile must have been when you look at the video he must have not been that terrified he was trying to chase him down and he would have just took his gun and shoot reaming raging lunatic I don't think he cared about a gun being pointed at him well ever yeah but I mean as Christians we feel safe I mean when you're right with the Lord you feel safe with or without a gun we feel safe no matter what you know but it's wise to have a gun especially when you live in a crazy country like ours where you got all these psychopaths what do we leave the world in psychopaths you know we got this crazy military this crazy prison system that's basically producing psychopaths by locking them up like animals and they're literally like you know the cutting themselves in their in their you know prison cells and they let them out and they're psychotic you know and it's like oh but don't worry about it you know it's like make all these laws you'll be safe from these people will make all these crazy gun laws you know that'll keep you safe no it's just like they're creating crazies and they don't want us to have the means to defend ourselves and I don't believe that God would allow us to get into a shoot I mean what's the point of it but be ready of course because it is what it is we're supposed to have the horse prepare for battle what does that mean you know be ready for anything but yeah I believe like brother Ben said I mean J Frank Norris had a guy come into his office it seemed I don't know the exact story I think it'd be you know best to look it up but essentially someone came in his office threatening him reached for a gun or at least it appeared to be reaching for a gun I believe and J Frank Norris shot him and killed him and I believe that it was like a really big trial like there's a big hearing across the nation a lot of people were involved and he was totally acquitted of all charges because you know you don't walk into someone's office threaten them pretend like you're getting a gun even if you don't have one because at that point you know someone's gonna defend themselves and you have the right stand your ground I believe in the state of Texas you also have castle doctrine you know someone's on your property and you don't want them there I mean you can use I believe almost all force to basically defend yourself in those scenarios that's why it's important that people know the law they know how to respond correctly but also from a biblical perspective realize that God does not expect his people to just lay down and let criminals kill them no now obviously there's verse in the Bible that talk about we are sheep and that we were killed all the day long but I believe that it's only right to essentially lay down your life when it's for a clear aspect of the Bible if someone wants to take your life because you believe in the Lord Jesus Christ or if someone wants to do you harm because you believe parts of the Bible then you know so be it if the government wants to arrest you and haul you off to prison or put you to death for believing the Word of God I don't believe that you actually should resist in those scenarios that you should just let it be obviously you should resist in the sense that you should say I don't believe this is right and you shouldn't do this and God's gonna judge you but the same time you know I don't believe that if America outlawed Christianity tomorrow Christians need to call to arms and fight the government you know you just have to basically let the Lord do his thing you know Shadrach Meshach and Abednego didn't pull out a sword to start fighting back and as her they let him get thrown in the fiery furnace but that was because they wouldn't bow down to an idol that was a clear spiritual issue this wasn't someone breaking into Shadrach's house at night trying to steal a stereo you know at that point Shadrach's gonna pull out his sword and defend his home the good man's not gonna let his house be broken up so I think there's that clear distinction of you know is this someone just just a criminal trying to commit a crime and violate me or is this someone persecuting me for righteousness sake for the Bible's sake and I would say in the situation where you're being persecuted for righteousness sake you would suffer evil you wouldn't resist it you would allow them to basically hurt or harm you but you know when it gets to a point even let's say I'm going out sewing and let me give you a practical scenario okay if I'm going out soul winning and and someone starts pushing me or maybe even hit me or something I believe it's best to just walk away the best thing would be to just get out of that scenario leave the area come back another day you know don't engage with the person but if someone pulled out a weapon and was threatening me and my soul-winding partner or my children or my wife I believe that you would have every right in that scenario to defend yourself and to use lethal force in that situation but that's because they're violating the law this is a criminal action but here's the thing if cops came to arrest you for soul winning or whatever I don't believe that would be the right time to call to arms you know you can tell them that that's not right you can preach them the Word of God but you know basically at that point you get in the cop car and you go and you basically let the Lord's will be done from from the government sanctioned authorities because God says that we're supposed to obey you know basically the the higher powers and if the government wants to do their thing then you know to some degree you kind of have to obey it a verse that comes to mind is when the Apostle Paul is in Acts chapter number 16 they went to jail for preaching and then they kind of get set free by the bailiff as it were by a miracle and then the jailer kind of lets them out and then they're like hey they said that y'all can get out of here and he's like no no we're going back in and they got to pull us out so he's kind of like he kind of wants to go through the proper channels yeah rather than just fleeing or escaping or breaking the law or anything like that and and so you know obviously there's gonna be a little bit of discretion here but based on what I said you feel like it's clear to people kind of this dividing line of like a resisting not evil in a spiritual sense but in a carnal sense yeah we should defend ourselves protect ourselves yeah I mean I think what you're describing is persecution for Christ's sake you know the Bible says he and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution if that ends up being physical then so be it if the government wants to come and arrest us right now for what we're saying about the Word of God then so be it that's not a time to take up arms that's not a time to try and fight a physical battle we fight a spiritual one and even if that means that we end up getting martyred for the cause of Christ that's a completely different situation that if somebody were to break into your home in the middle of the night to hurt you or your family to bring the chat room into it and we can get brother Segura's thoughts the question was brought up do you ever choose because you had also mentioned soul winning the dangers that you might face soul winning this question comes from the chat room do you ever choose to not soul win in a particular community because of high violent crime rates let's have brother Chris Segura tackle that one absolutely absolutely not I will go in to the most dangerous cities I don't like I said I feel safe you know with or without a gun and we are planning to have a soul winning marathon you know where we go to the top 10 most dangerous city we were going to do it before the pandemic but the pandemic kicked in you know so pastor Anderson he still wants to do it where we go so winning in the top 10 most dangerous cities in America similar to a the mega soul winning marathon where we just hit those 10 cities in one day you know because he believes we're going to get a ton of people saved you know so of course you know if somebody says hey this is a highly gang area you know and they and they have like a lot of murders in that area you know I don't think it's bad to go there during the day but if it looks sketchy leave but definitely don't go there at night but we don't worry about those things you know if we're being persecuted by the gang members and they're threatening to shoot us and they're showing guns or whatever then be wise and just leave you know it's pretty dumb to just stay there but we're not afraid to go to the top 10 most dangerous cities in America we plan to do it yeah I would I would say this I think from a philosophical perspective you don't want to avoid any area going soul winning however you know I do try to teach my soul winners that if they are in an area that's dangerous to at least exercise some levels of precaution so for example obviously we want to go so in during the day we're not going to go someone 2 a.m in the in the morning or something in the hood obviously you want to go during the day which is going to prevent you know a lot of issues additionally I would never send any of my ladies soul winning teams into these more dangerous areas by themselves having male escorts or you know sending you don't want to just send women and children into these dangerous areas to be victimized potentially you want to send men in there with them and always in eye range you never want to let them get out of their eyesight I say that also I try to teach women that you know if they knock on a door and the person's awkward or saying something perverted or they're doing something that's weird there's no problem in just leaving you know you can always just leave because obviously if we knock every single door in our entire area some of those doors are some pretty bad doors with some pretty bad people and I've told my soul owners look when someone you knock on the door and they're like you need to get out of here I just get out of there because a lot of times these people will just tell you like you need to leave or get out of here and you need to just listen to that not be this guy that shoves his foot in the door and it's like no I'm coming in also I've told ladies like don't just go in people's houses you know just say hey we're fine out here can we just give you the gospel right here you know and if if because they may want you to come inside for a different reason and if they're not willing to just kind of stand there and let you preach the gospel it's probably better to just move on you know there's no sense in just putting yourself into a dangerous situation also someone's being aggressive or or they're basically trying to fight you or they're not receptive you just need to leave in every scenario whether this is a dangerous neighborhood or not and so of course we want to be harmless as doves but we want to be wise as serpents in the sense that we want to keep our head on a swivel we want to pay attention to surroundings we want to identify people that might be problem makers troublemakers people that are following you around people that are noticing you a little bit too much someone's saying something that's a little awkward or perverted so it's it's good to use discretion in these areas but you know what when I go soul hunting in some of these quote unquote more dangerous areas it's sometimes some of the better soul winning anyways and and most of these people in these areas are not dangerous it's actually still a very small percentage of the people in these areas that are dangerous and if you really looked at a map of where all the murderers and and guns and and and basically problems are happening your entire city is going to be chicken pox I mean you're talking about fractions of percentages increases in these certain areas they want to make it sound much worse than it really is there's really murder and rape and stealing and all this happening everywhere everywhere around you and every city of America I mean the statistical differences are typically between five and two percent like you know it's it's a very small when you really think about it'll say like in this city they have 20 murders per capita and this one's like 10 but like when you think about in the grand scheme it's like 20 out of a thousand and it's 10 of a thousand we're not talking about a huge difference yeah it sounds double but it's not like it's that much more dangerous than any other area really just America in general has some danger to it and you need to just be careful in every area that you go to but I'm not going to say you know I don't want to go to that area because they have 20 murders per capita versus the 10 per capita area that's just kind of uh that to me that's basically just saying there's a lion in the streets there's a lion in the way and you just have to the gospel if you don't mind me interrupting you just have to be just just wise you know I don't know how else to explain it you know it's just like you go to an area you know and it feels weird it might be because there's something that's causing you to feel that way you know but of course you know don't don't be stupid you know I personally don't like to go into people's homes that have dogs I just don't like doing it I don't care if it's a small dog as a cable guy I've been bit by chihuahuas I've been attacked by pit bulls but yet but I've seen soul winners literally open the gate walk in there you know the most dumbest person I've ever saw do that was Gary Kirschway you know he's I've won his heretic there was a big German shepherd and I'm like I'm not going in there with you he opens the tiny little gate walks right through and that dog is barking like inches away from him and he just gets to the door and I think because the owner came out you know that dog backed off when he saw the owner wasn't in danger but I couldn't believe Garrett did such a dumb thing and that dog's inches away from biting them and he's just kind of shooing it off just trying to shoo it off but I don't believe in that type of you know dumb soul winning I think it's dangerous you know but if somebody's like oh I'm not going to this area man you know that's like you know the murder capital of the world or whatever well I grew up in the murder capital of the world or the United States and that was back in 1990 whatever but I never noticed like all the shootings and the drugs and whatever because I wasn't looking for it you know if you want to find danger you'll find it anywhere if you look for it you know but what we believe is like hey you know we're going to go everywhere but we're also using our brains you know if we go to an area and you see a bunch of guys outside and they're looking at you all weird and they're all nervous and whatever they can I mean there's a lot of things you can do I can't go through every scenario but like pastor said like you said be wise you're a woman be wise you know but as far as like the question would you would you guys avoid areas you know if they're known to be you know dangerous areas the answer is no but we're going to be wise whether it's dangerous or not because you just never know that's why I don't like going so many by myself I can easily do it but even the nicest coolest like like fanciest neighborhoods I don't like going by myself because you never know what reprobates behind that door and can accuse me of anything I need my partners to be there because then there's two witnesses versus one and whatever they want to accuse me of if they do call the cops saying that I threaten them or say something or harass them or whatever the case may be you know I've got one or two so many partners with me but I feel bad when we got guys that just they feel like oh this is three let's just let me just split off and go on my own you never know what will happen you just don't know you know but we believe that hey if you're looking for trouble you're going to find it you know but if you're out there with a pure heart you're going out there to get people safe god will protect you we're not overly worried about our safety when we know we're going out there for the right reasons but we're not going to let our brains stay in our vehicles when we go so many we're going to use them because you just never know you got to keep an eye out you know dogs people whatever drug addicts you name it we've dealt with people out knocking doors with drug addicts we're like whoa this dude seriously on drugs you know like harassing us he's like yeah i don't believe jesus was black or whatever it's like no we don't you know they want to just get physical you know but yeah obviously we're not going to resort to violence to deal with those people oh you want some oh man let's go you know we'll go ahead right now no we're constantly focusing on just hey you know let's go out there and be safe that's what we pray for safety every time before we step off you know we are constantly reminding people be safe you know we're constantly reminding people stay with your partners and it doesn't matter what area you keep the basics you're going to be fine but we absolutely want to get people safe anywhere shape or form and we do have baptist churches that avoid certain areas because they're quote-unquote dangerous but like pastor selly says you just never know what's around you because there's danger everywhere just got to be safe and smart and the lord will protect you you know but focus on just hey i'm going to go out there and do the best job possible and just prepare as best you can prayer or whatever when bad things happen i don't know which is rarely ever you know you can kind of look and see okay i shouldn't have done that you shouldn't have walked in you know that house with a big old sign that says beware of dogs and it's nice and clean looks like he just bought it you know but hey we gotta go soul winning you walk in there next thing you know three people are coming at you and yes this is a personal story it did happen to me it got attacked by three dogs in one house lucky enough my soul winning partner he was able to escape you know the bites i got bit in my bible got bit in my pants lucky enough they didn't get my skin i took up in the sprint all three dogs chased me down you know but guess what my my soul winning partner was able to escape you know because i was running away yeah the dogs are chasing me and he's able to get out you know but that was a quote-unquote safe area you know it wasn't exactly but it became dangerous right away exactly so just gonna happen anywhere i agree with you and somebody's a fact checker in the the the show this evening when i was talking about murder cap per capita i think i said a thousand but i was i remembered the statistic wrong it's like a hundred thousand but uh i pulled it up and uh the top murder per capita of about a hundred thousand per hundred thousand residents in 2020 was memphis tennessee at 24.2 and then new orleans was 21.7 shreveport la was or shreveport louisiana was uh 21.6 which shreveport was one of the most receptive soul winning areas we've ever been in and so we went there and it was great we went and we went in the ghetto but i did see in 2022 uh now saint louis is at 64 uh point something uh i believe is what the rate was let me let me see if i can get all the way down to the bottom of this article but it's now saying that saint louis is the most dangerous permit yeah 64.54 murders per hundred thousand residents in saint louis so that's like triple what it had been in 2020 that's crazy but again typically when you're looking at these statistics you know they're kind of very similar as far as the numbers you know we're not talking about like huge differences and numbers but i think this was a great question to kind of end on because not only should we defend ourselves and and be wise we need to defend the gospel and we need to go out there and preach the gospel and go soul winning and and that's what i love about brother segura is he's not just going to defend himself he defends the gospel he's a great preacher of the gospel i think that's going to probably do it for us this evening the show is there anything uh left or any last words you wanted to give us brother segura no i mean if there's anybody out there that thinks that there's something wrong with you know defending yourself you know i i actually pulled up the jehovah's witness website and i found i guess it must have been the same one that i read years ago where this guy's given his testimony about how he's in martial arts and this is what he says he says the turning point for me was the incident i mentioned at the outset when i accidentally kicked a sparring partner in the nose that accident made me think seriously about whether i could be a peaceful follower of christ if i continue practicing martial arts i had learned that isaiah 20 or isaiah 2 3 and 4 foretold that those who follow jehovah's instructions will not learn war anymore translation you shouldn't defend yourself and then it says and jesus taught others not to resort to violence even when they face injustice hey we believe the same thing but they're making it seem like you can't defend yourself and then it says this therefore i left the sport that i love so much translation i'll stop practicing self-defense because it's sinful so it's all about non-violence today and we have the right to defend ourselves i mean you see it all from the old testament to the new testament you know but you got to be wise of course if it's self-defense the bible's okay with that but when you're obviously being violent violating people innocent people the bible is against that and we're against violence but self-defense is not violence biblically speaking well amen to that and uh thanks so much for being on the show brother segura is a great person to talk on this topic and he's got a lot of knowledge and uh he's not only dangerous of the weapon he's dangerous with that sword of the spirit which is the word of god the bible brother ben you got any last thoughts for us well as we inch closer to the end times i think this topic becomes even more relevant the bible warns that the love of many is going to wax cold the bible warns that uh we're going to be afflicted and uh that you know people are just going to grow more and more insane you know as we inch closer to the anti-christ taking control and so i think that we ought to be educated on this topic we ought to know what the bible says about this and we ought to realize that yes it is biblical to defend yourself there's a distinction between self-defense and violence well i really appreciate you guys being on the show with us this evening thanks brother segura and thanks brother ben we're looking forward to the next few episodes we're going to still keep going with the baptist bias hopefully we'll have about 10 episodes for season number one and uh if you have any questions you can always put them down in the chat uh hopefully we'll bring back our live call and we really like that feature we like people calling in so try to catch the show tuesdays at 8 p.m it's the baptist bias we're on youtube we're on facebook we're on podbean is that right podbean we're on apple podcast what else are we on brother ben spotify and the stitcher radio app we got it all and you need to go out there and share these episodes uh get people plugged into hearing the truth it's hard to hear good preaching but it's also just hard to hear good anything just the truth on any subject on any topic and the goal of our show is to to approach a lot of topics that maybe you wouldn't hear a whole sermon on or you haven't heard a sermon on recently um kind of connecting with real world experiences life events showing videos and if you ever have an idea for a topic you could always email them in put them in the show we like to get some feedback from our audience put a comment like this thing share this thing tweet it even i don't think does twitter even does anybody care about twitter anymore i mean i don't i don't know it's complete garbage but that's gonna do it for us this evening why don't you sign us off then for brother segura and pastor shelly this is ben the baptist signing off thank you so much for tuning in everybody god bless you all and we will talk to you guys again after a while you