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And now it's time for Power of Prophecy with your host, former professor at the University of Texas at Austin, career United States Air Force officer and best-selling author Tex Mars. Hello, friends, this is Tex Mars, I tell you, I am so excited today, so excited, you're going to be, too. We've got an hour of, oh, it's going to be a great time. Let me tell you a little bit about this program. You know, I received a video recently called Marching to Zion. Marching to Zion. Well, you've heard the great hymn, of course, there, and well, that's something we all say. But what does some Christians mean by it? I mean, I have learned through many years of ministry that there are just a lot of heretics that believe they're Zionists. And I know there's a well-known pastor of the Church of God from North Carolina, and he put out his newspaper and he called me a heretic because of what I teach about Israel and the Jews and Jesus, of course. And he said, on Judgment Day, everybody's going to stand before the white throne judgment and give an answer. And he said, and the only question that God will ask is, what did you do about my people Israel? And he said, how's Tex Morris going to answer that? And I thought about it, and I'm going to ask my guest today, what would he say? Is that true? Is that all God is concerned about? When you die in the flesh, when you're judged by God, is that all he's going to ask? What did you do about his people Israel? I always thought that it was a matter of, did you believe in what Jesus Christ did on the cross for you? He gave his blood for you. He died. He was resurrected for you. I thought that was the ultimate question. In fact, the only question. Of course, there's rewards in heaven and so on, and those are important, but I just get that little shack, little tent made or what. I'll be happy, okay? But somehow it's got to where this brother in North Carolina equated Israel with Jesus. He put Israel in the place of Jesus. And when you do that, well, I have to admit I'm a heretic because I put Jesus first. But we're going to ask about that. This video just came out. It's produced by Paul Witzenberger. He came here and he interviewed me, and it's quite a bit of a video that's of me here. Well, that's not why the video is important. It's important because it covers this issue. Now, I have with me a wonderful gentleman, Pastor Steven Anderson. Now, Pastor Anderson is sort of making a, well, he's sort of controversial because he's teaching basically the same thing that I teach, which is out of the Word of God. Doesn't mean he agrees with me on everything, but certainly he's right on this issue. And you know, these gentlemen, he had produced this video and he knows all about it. He's going to tell us about it today. And they actually went and interviewed four rabbis. I'm going to ask you about that. What do these rabbis have to say? Do they know something? We don't. I mean, I've gone to ministers that told me that rabbis know things. I mean, they're so much more intelligent than pastors are. So, I want to know what these four rabbis have to say. And it seems like many Christians are deceived. Is that true? I'm going to ask our guests about that. So, these are a lot of, think about it. What the rabbis believe, it may be what a lot of Christians believe. Well, Stephen Anderson, welcome to Power of Prophecy. Thanks for having me on. Good to be here. I see you're raised in Sacramento, California. You met your wife, Suzanna, while you were in Munich, Bavaria. Soul-winning on the streets, is that true? Yeah, I was over there doing evangelism, working with different pastors and missionaries just as an 18-year-old boy. And that's where I met my future wife, just out in the streets. The first thing I did was give her the gospel of Jesus Christ. Now, what a way to meet your future wife. You've been married for over 13 years. And God's blessed you with seven beautiful children. Now, you heard his faithful word back in church. Is that still an ongoing institution? Oh, yeah. Yeah, we're approaching our 10-year anniversary this year. Well, wonderful. It seems that you don't preach the same message. You don't emphasize Zion. Instead, you emphasize Jesus more than, say, the Pentecostals or the other Baptists do today. In fact, I just got into a controversy with a bunch of independent Baptists who don't believe like you do at all, Steve. How did you come upon your beliefs in this? Well, you know, I just got it from reading the Bible. Actually, I was raised with the same teaching that pretty much most Baptists and Pentecostals are raised with, that the Jews are God's chosen people. The land belongs to them. We need to support them, and we need to be against Palestinians and so forth. About six months after I started pastoring, about nine years ago, I was preaching one time, and I just noticed that something started to come out of my mouth that was like a pro-Israel type statement. And as the words were coming out of my mouth, the thought popped into my head, you know, I don't think this is really true. I think I'm just repeating something that I've heard my entire life. And so I went home and just determined to study what the Bible said about this issue, and I spent the next six months reading the Bible cover to cover a couple times, just looking for this one issue. I was just blown away by how clear the Scripture was, and I got up and preached in December of 2006. I preached a sermon where I taught that we as Christians are God's chosen people, and that God has basically rejected the nation of Israel. He told them, the kingdom of God shall be taken from you and given to a nation, bringing forth the fruits thereof, and that nation is made up of all believers in the New Testament. So now you're quoting the Bible, okay? Sorry to confuse some of these dispensationalists with the Bible, but that is what the Bible says. Yes, I mean, think of it. The kingdom of, he was telling the Jews of that day and age, Jesus Christ, he said the kingdom is taken from you and given to another nation which shall bear the fruits thereof. In other words, he took the kingdom away from the Jews, and what other nation can he give it to? Today there are 175 nations, I suppose, but what nation would bear the fruit thereof? What is the holy nation that would? It would have to be the Christian nation. In other words, you know, true Zion, I guess you could say true Israel, but that would be a fact, wouldn't it? What else could the reader of the Bible determine? Yeah, absolutely. And he flat out says that this new holy nation, he says in time past they were not a people, but now they are the people of God. And he said that they were not the chosen, but now they are the chosen people of God in 1 Peter 2, 9, and 10. He said if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed and heirs according to the promise. I mean, it's so clear. I would just encourage people to read Galatians 3 and 4. The entire chapters deal with this subject. Well, I have asked many pastors to read those chapters, and they always answer me this way. In fact, one Baptist pastor answered me this way. He said, well, text, you know, when you read Galatians 3, 26 and 29, it's true that it says if ye belong to Christ, then you're Abraham's seed and heirs according to the promise, but that's a matter of spirituality. I said, what does that mean? He said, well, that's spiritual. You know, we're to worship Jesus in spirit and in truth. He said, right. I says, well, where's the spiritual in that? I said, of course it's spiritual. Everything is spiritual, or it means to me. I said, is that wrong for me to see that as spiritual? He said, well, but that doesn't mean what it says. I said, it doesn't mean what it says. He said, no, it doesn't mean what it says. I said, it says if you belong to Jesus, then you're Abraham's seed and heirs according to the promise. He said, well, that's true. He said, but that's spiritual. He kept coming back to you. And I said, well, the Bible says in 1 John, or actually it says John, chapter 3, that we are to worship Jesus in spirit and in truth, and those are the kind of worshippers he's looking for. It says there. That's who he wants. But he got so confused over that. I have never heard that speech before. It seems like the pastors just avoid that, don't they? Well, it doesn't fit in with the paradigm that they have. They have it just set in their mind that the physical nation of Israel are God's chosen people, and if we bless them, God will bless us, and if we curse them, God will curse us. And so Galatians 3 just flies in the face of that, so of course they're going to have to avoid it unless they're going to preach it correctly. And it's funny how they always accuse us of quote, spiritualizing things. Well, I guess I could turn it around and say that these Zionists tend to carnalize things. They tend to make it all carnal. They worry about Israel according to the flesh, according to the dirt and desert. That's what they're very big on. Which is an amazing thing. Now, you mentioned about God's chosen people. This is the big thing. The Jews say we are God's chosen people. Now, I always ask, a Christian that tells me that, they'll say, don't you believe that text? And I always ask them, now, what exactly does that mean? What are Jews chosen for? And now there's another thing that they get very, I mean, totally discombobulated, because they cannot really answer that. I say, what are Jews chosen for? And they say, well, they're to bring us Jesus. And I say, well, okay, they did. What are they chosen for today? Why are they still chosen? Why will they be eternally chosen? And they finally say, well, it's just because they're Jews. Is that true? Does Jesus love one group more than another because of their blood relations? Where does that come from, Steve? Well, you know, it comes from the doctrines of men. And, you know, the Bible's real clear. There is no difference between the Jew and the Greek. I don't know what people don't understand about that. The Bible flat out says that there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek. In Christ, there is neither Jew nor Gentile. And, you know, when you talk about this word chosen, another synonym for that is the word elect. You know, all throughout the Bible. And there are so many scriptures that Christians will quote with the word elect in them. And they know it's believers. Like, for example, the famous verse, you know, who shall lay anything to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth. If God be for us, who can be against us? Who shall separate us from the love of God? Christians have no problem identifying that Romans chapter 8 there is referring to us as believers. We're not going to be separated from the love of God. We're more than conquerors. And what does He call us there? He calls us the elect. We are the chosen. Now, another thing that I'd point out is in Matthew 24, He says that when the Antichrist comes with all the lying signs and wonders, that the elect will not be deceived. It says he'll be so convincing that if it were possible, he would deceive the very elect. But it's not possible. And if you think about it, the Jews today are the most deceived people that there are. And every single Jewish rabbi is a false prophet and an Antichrist. And so if the elect aren't going to be deceived, then that can't be Jews. That has to be believers. And the reason they're not going to be deceived is because they have the Holy Spirit living inside of them. Whereas, you know, these Jewish rabbis, the Bible says, who is a liar, but he that denyeth that Jesus is the Messiah. He's Antichrist that denyeth the Father and the Son. So there's no way that the elect is referring to the Jews. It's referring to believers. Think not to say within yourselves, we have Abraham to our father. For I say unto you that God is able to these stones to raise up children unto Abraham. So in other words, in the New Testament, it's comparing Jews to stones. God doesn't need the Jews. He can just raise up true disciples from the stones. Exactly. That sort of degrades you a little bit, doesn't it? I'm clear of these stones. No, you're not. And another thing I'd like to point out is that, you know, a lot of people say, well, you know, the Jews are in unbelief now, but oh man, in the end times, you know, they're going to come back into play and God's going to use them in a mighty way in the end time. They're all going to turn to Christ when they see His second coming. But you know, it's real clear in the Bible, He said, they have Moses and the prophets. Let them hear them. And He said, if they be not persuaded by Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rose from the dead. And of course, one did raise from the dead Jesus. They were still not persuaded. They're not going to be persuaded at His second coming either, you know. And that's a very powerful passage there. So Jesus said that they have Moses and the prophets. Right. And if you don't believe in that, you're not going to believe even though one rises from the dead. That's powerful. Well, you know, in 1 Peter, let's see, chapter 2 verse 9, when they use this term God's chosen people, I ask a Christian where he gets that from. And he doesn't really know, he doesn't really have an exact verse, but sometimes they will throw some passage in from the Old Testament. I've never heard a Christian use the New Testament to show me that, you know, it's like we don't talk about the New Testament. It's already Old Testament that they use all this Israel stuff. But there's a real verse. I want to ask you what you think about this. What does it mean, Pastor Anderson, to Christians today? Peter said this, he said, but ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a peculiar people, that ye should show forth the praises of Him who hath called you out of darkness into His marvelous light, which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God. So in other words, he's saying to Christians, you are a chosen generation. You are a holy nation. So do we have two holy nations? I mean, I don't understand that. Maybe you can explain that. What does a false Christian believe about this verse? You know, I don't know, I think they just ignore it. I think that they just stay away from it. I think they just don't talk about it. But what I think is really interesting is when you look up the source of that verse, because in 1 Peter 2 there, he's actually quoting the Old Testament. And if you look up the passages in the Old Testament where he talks about them being, the nation of Israel being, you know, a royal priesthood, a nation of kings, a chosen people, if you look up those scriptures that use the identical wording in 1 Peter 2, 9, and 10, there's a big giant if there. He says, if you keep my covenant, then you'll be a chosen people. If you keep my statutes and judgments. And it's funny because these dispensationalists, these Zionists, what they'll often tell you is that these promises made in the Old Testament were unconditional to Israel. It's an unconditional land grant. These are unconditional promises made to the Jews, to Israel. But if you look them up yourself, you'll find all kinds of conditions that God attached and said, look, you'll be a chosen people if you continue in my covenant, if you follow my statutes and judgments. And he said in Hebrews chapter 9, he said, they continued not in my covenant and I regarded them not, saith the Lord. He has no regard for them because they didn't continue in the covenant. That's why he made a new covenant. And the new covenant, the Bible says, in that he sayeth a new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away. So the new covenant does replace the old covenant. And the new covenant is made with both Jews and Gentiles, whoever's in Christ. So if a Jew wants to be God's chosen people at this time, he's more than welcome. All he has to do is renounce all this witchcraft and wickedness of the Talmud and the Kabbalah and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ as his Savior. And he'll be accepted into the Beloved just like you and I are. So that's the reason that Paul said that God hasn't forsaken his people. Because he still has a remnant who will believe in Jesus Christ. Exactly. And he says the remnant according to the election of grace. And he said if it's of grace, then it's no more of works. And the Bible says that Israel is seeking to establish their own righteousness and not submitting to the righteousness of God, for Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone that believeth. So a lot of people will say, oh, you're saying that God replaced the Jews with the Gentiles. No, what we're saying is that God replaced the Jews with believers. And believers consist of both Jews and Gentiles. And there is a very small believing remnant amongst the Jews. Most of them don't call themselves Jews, though they just call themselves Christians because they realize that in Christ there is neither Jew nor Gentile. We don't need to segregate Jewish and Gentile believers. We don't need a special Jewish church for Messianic. We just need to all join in one house and one shepherd and God's house should be a house of prayer for all nations. So really the accusation that some might make against you, Pastor, that you believe in replacement theology, actually you are consistent. You go all the way from Abraham to the beginning of time and follow the people of God, the chosen people. I don't quite get their accusation that you are a replacement theology man. You don't believe in replacing at all. You're a consistent person that believes that a new Christian, let's say yourself, your wife, Susanna, that you have the faith of Abraham. You go all the way back. I guess you might say, you want to talk about the seed? There is a seed there and you can be traced all the way back spiritually to Abraham then. So there's no replacement at all. Well, I don't shy away from the term replacement to be honest because they'll try to throw it out there as an accusation. You're teaching replacement theology. Well, you know what? If God said the kingdom of God is taken from you and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits of it, I mean, that sounds like something's being replaced to me. If it's being taken from one and given to the other. So in a sense, here's the thing. In one sense, it is a replacement. So that's why I don't fear the term replacement theology because it is a replacement. It used to be the nation of Israel. Now it's a nation made up of all of God's, those who believe in Christ. But what they'll try to spin it as is they'll say, oh, you're saying Jew has been replaced with Gentile when really not all the Jews have been replaced because if they believe in Christ, they can be graphed back into their own olive tree. It seems to me, and I believe just like you do on these things because it's right in the Bible. I couldn't dispute it no matter how hard I tried. But it seems to me that a man like Pastor Steven Anderson, that you oppose racism. You're sort of a civil rights leader. I mean, in a favorable way, biblically. I mean, this is what you're opposed to. You're opposed to somebody that says this group or that group is God's chosen because of their color or their skin or their race or whatever. You're saying whosoever will. That sort of includes everybody who will, who will become Jesus' chosen people, his elect. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I mean, I don't have a racist bone in my body, but it's the- It has to be anti-Semite. I'm trying to figure that out. Well, you know, the whole term anti-Semite is the stupidest term ever invented because they'll tell you that the Arabs are anti-Semites when they're a Semitic people. They're classified as Semitic. And the bottom line is this has nothing to do with race, okay? And they'll always try to play that race card. But I believe that God has made all nations of the earth of one blood. And, you know, it's funny because this film is accused of being racist or anti-Semitic, yet this film actually has a whole section in it on the DNA testing and on the genealogies, and it proves that we're all related. It proves that we're all of one blood, and it actually proves that- In fact, I think that some people who watch the film that are racist will walk away and stop being racist as a result of this film, literally. Oh, yeah. Well, you know, I do get- I get criticism from white supremacist groups that they say this can't be true. Right. It can't be. That God chooses a people not based on race. It's got to be the white man. That's what they tell me, and I just sort of laugh at that. So you remember David Koresh, of course. He thought he was Jewish, and he'd gone to Israel, and they flew the Jewish Star of David flag, the six-pointed star, over their compound in Waco. So, you know, he was so mixed up. He thought he was Jewish. That was one of the reasons why the Jews were desperate to do away with him. I've read it because he claimed he was a Jew, and they're afraid that some of that will stick, and the Christians will come to believe that. They want Christians to become Judaizers, but not complete Judaizers, if you know what I mean. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Philippians 3 is a- I don't mean to just throw out verses at you. There's so many here, but this is really very fascinating. Philippians 3, verses 2 and 3. I want to get your opinion on it. Beware of the dogs. Beware of the evil workers. Beware of the false circumcision. Wow. For we are the true circumcision who worship in the Spirit of God and glory in Christ Jesus and put no confidence in the flesh. What's your belief on this verse? Well, just look at who he's writing to, the Philippians. He's not writing to the Jews. He's clearly writing to Gentiles there in Philippi, and he's telling them we're the circumcision because we glory in Christ Jesus and that these other people that say they are Jews and are not but do lie, the fact that they're physically circumcised, that doesn't make them the true circumcision in God's sight because the Bible says circumcision is not that outward circumcision in the flesh, but it's the circumcision of the heart and in the spirit. All these groups that you're talking about, whether it's the black Hebrew Israelites or whether it's the people who try to say that the English are the true Jews or the Zionists themselves, all of these groups have gotten hung up on race and on this carnal, physical... God said to avoid genealogies, and I'm not going to glory in being a white person. The Bible says God forbid that I should glory saving the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ. And so instead of going around bragging about how black we are or how white we are or how Jewish we are or whether we're an Ashkenazi or a Sephardic or whatever, the bottom line is the only thing that matters is are you in Christ? If you're in Christ, you're one of the chosen. If you're not in Christ, I don't care what your pedigree is, you're not one of the chosen. And that's why God told us to avoid genealogies. If it mattered, then why would we be told to avoid genealogies? He would tell us to embrace genealogies if that was so important in the New Testament. That is so true. I've always been struck by how Jesus and the apostles referred to the Jews. They always say, the Jews. It's like you and I giving sermons saying, the Americans, the Americans. In other words, he was differentiating himself. He was separating himself from a particular race which we know was, well, that was what he was, at least he manifested physically. And it's amazing, isn't it, that the Jews did this, the Jews did that. And it's astonishing how people haven't sort of clued in to that by Jesus. I've always wondered, Jesus came from Galilee. In the Bible it says Galilee is the land of the Gentiles. Isn't that an amazing thing? That doesn't mean everybody there is a Gentile or anything, but that was what it was known for. It's the land of the Gentiles. Why would Jesus choose to be a Galilean? Isn't that interesting, Steve? Yeah, I think that things like that are in the Bible for a reason, the fact that he was brought up in Galilee. Yes, we know that his physical pedigree was that from the tribe of Judah and that he was of the Jews and so forth, but he chose to grow up in a Galilean, and like you pointed out, it's called Galilee of the Gentiles. That's what the Bible calls it. And not only that, but when he chose his 12 disciples, isn't it interesting that he chose Simon the Canaanite? He specifically chose one that was not of the Jews. The rest of them were all presumably Jews, but he specifically chose one known as Simon the Canaanite. I think that's all there to show us that God is not a respecter of persons. I also love the way that the Old Testament was written in Hebrew, but the New Testament is written in Greek, because I feel like if he would have caused the whole thing to be written in Hebrew, then that would cause people to idolize the Hebrew language and idolize the Hebrew-speaking people. I think God's just showing us that he's going to deliver his word in the language of whoever's ready to hear it and spread it and preach it. He's not a respecter of persons, and the same God is overall and is rich unto all that call upon him. Amen. Well, we're going to come back, folks, in just a minute to this brief message. We've got so much more for you. I'm going to be asking about this DNA question, because I've written an entire book about it. I want to know about that and about these four rabbis that participated. What do they have to say? We've got so much to prepare for Stephen Anderson. I'm Tex Morris. We'll be right back after this message. Hello, friends. This is Tex Morris. This is such an exciting topic, and it seems it's always in the news. Of course, the prime minister of Israel, a very tiny nation of 7.5 million people or so, actually came to the United States, been here several times, and spoke to our assembled Congress in the House. And they applauded him over and over and over again. Isn't that amazing? We haven't had the presidents or prime ministers of large countries. I don't think Vladimir Putin was invited. I don't think the president of countries like Brazil, Argentina, or the Red China. I don't remember seeing the Chinese premier get up and speak to our Congress. Why would this guide for this little tiny country of Israel? It seems like they're giving Israel a lot more importance than any other country. In fact, when you see these senators like Ted Cruz and others, everything they talk about is their love of Israel, how they put Israel first. I don't know of any senator or presidential candidate, Republican or Democrat, that say, put America first. It's always put Israel first. And you wonder about that. You and I know that politicians, and today, come on, let's face it, are generally from the good of hell. So how is it that they're all saying, put Israel first? Maybe that means we should do exactly the opposite. But in any case, something is wrong. And as I've told you, I've had pastors that tell me that if you don't glorify Israel, the nation of Israel, and the Israel of the flesh, that God's not going to let you into heaven. It doesn't matter what you think or believe about his son Jesus Christ. He just can't get to heaven because you didn't favor the Jews. You didn't give them a donation or let them rebuild the temple or something like that. That's a strange thing. Well, I want you to know more about this subject. And this is the first video that I have ever seen that discusses this subject in great detail. Now, the title is Marching to Zion. Marching to Zion. And it really covers the history of Israel from 1948. Has Israel really been a blessing? Or is it a curse? Is it a play on the world? And does DNA science prove the Jews to be imposters? What if they are imposters? What if they're in fact the synagogue of Satan? Wow. What does God say about the synagogue of Satan in the book of Revelation? What if Christians have been horribly deceived? What if Christians are into witchcraft? These are big questions, and Marching to Zion has the answers to them. Now, I want you to have this video. It's only $20. $20. Please add $5 for shipping and handling. It's in DVD form, of course. And here's how you get it. Just bonus. Just toll free 1-800-234-967. 1-800-234-9673 and say text. Or whoever you talk to. Everybody's friendly here. Please send me that video, Marching to Zion. Just ask for the Zion video. If you forget the title, we'll know what it is. We'll make sure you get it. Marching to Zion. The new DVD. Now, this thing's already causing a lot of controversy, a lot of people are asking questions, and you may want to bring it to church and show it in Sunday School or invite some of your church friends or your non-church friends over to hear it and listen to it and then discuss it. I think it's very worthy of discussion. You may want to get some Bible verses and maybe hear Pastor Anderson and I discussing this on radio and be ready to talk about it because this is going to be, listen, my friends, this is going to be the number one question other than Jesus himself in the Christian world. This is it. This is a major, major question. Marching to Zion. In thee shall all nations be blessed. Does that mean the nation of Israel in the Middle East or is there some other nation that could be blessing people today? Okay, $20. You can go to our website, powerofprophecy.com, powerofprophecy.com, or just text Mars.com. They'll take you to the same place. Order it there. $25, that includes shipping and handling. Or you can write to us. We're, of course, at Power of Prophecy, 1708 Patterson, P-A-T-D-E-R-S-O-N, Patterson Road. And Jerry, how long have we been here? I don't know, 15 years, 20 years, I think. I'm just getting older and I can't even remember how long we've been in this building. It's been a long, long time. Just write to Power of Prophecy or text Mars, 1708 Patterson Road, Austin, Texas, 78733. And he closed $25 and say, hey, text, send me that marching to Zion. We'll be glad to do it. And I'm sure that Paul Wittenberger, the producer of this video, he really believes in this and he's on fire for the Lord. He'll get as many copies as we need. So we're not going to run out of copies anytime soon and I want you to have this. A lot of people are going to be talking about it. You'll want to know about this video, Marching to Zion. All right, now let's return to our regular program. My guest today is Pastor Stephen Anderson. I hope he doesn't mind. I just thought Steve. And Pastor Anderson is pastor of Faithful Word Baptist Church. I guess that's over in Arizona. And it's an independent Baptist church. And Pastor Anderson tells me he's a Christian. He's just a Christian. And that's why he's of an independent church as well. And many thousands have been saved and baptized and they're winning souls door to door because of Pastor Anderson's faithfulness because of Pastor Anderson's faithfulness at Faithful Word. Pastor Stephen Anderson, welcome back to Power of Prophecy. Good to be here. This is a fantastic subject. And you know, my mail shows me this is a very popular subject. People have so many questions. I have some questions for you too. Will you just get right into those? Sure. All right. Well, first of all, now, who is Israel? Because this seems to be a question that a lot of people are asking. They're saying, you're saying, Pastor, that Christians are Israel? How can that be? I mean, we're not Jews. We're German or, you know, Mexican or whatever we are. We're not Jews. How can we be Israel? How do you answer that? Well, the Bible flat out says in Romans 9, it says, They are not all Israel which are of Israel. And he says, that is, they which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted for the seed. And that word seed is very important because he says in Galatians 3, If ye be Christ's, then are you Abraham's seed and heirs according to the promise. He said, whether you're Jew or Gentile in Galatians 3, 28 and 29. So I would say that Israel in the New Testament is made up of all believers. And how could you read Romans 9 and Galatians 3 and come to any other conclusion is beyond me. So he's not talking at all about the physical nation of Israel, but of all the believers. He says that the physical, the sentence, he said, These are not the children of God. They are not of Israel. He said, he is not a Jew which is one outwardly, neither is that circumcision which is outward in the flesh, but he is a Jew which is one inwardly. That's why the Apostle Paul said, We are the circumcision which rejoice in Christ Jesus. So the true Israel in the New Testament is made up of believers, not a bunch of Polish people in the Middle East who call themselves Israel. Abraham then, he was evidently a Babylonian, a scenario where he did not come from Israel, there was no Israel at that time, as far as a fleshly identifiable nation, right? Right, and it was his faith that set him apart. Okay. The Lord said in Genesis, Abraham, get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house. So, he was not a Jew at all. And, you know, I'm always asked just by Christians who don't understand the Bible, they say, but if you believe Abraham, you would have to believe the way to dispensational belief, which says, I will bless them that bless thee, and curse them that curse thee, and that they shall all families of the earth be blessed. So, if you're a true Israel, you will automatically bless all the families of the earth. Wouldn't Jesus be that great blessing? Of course, and that's why the Bible says in Galatians 3, it says that the Gospel was preached unto Abraham, saying, in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed. How are all nations of the earth blessed through Abraham? Because Abraham brought us the Lord Jesus Christ. So, through Jesus all nations are blessed, because there will be people in heaven, according to the Bible, from every nation, kindred, and tongue, and people. Every single nation on this earth has people in it who believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. That's why it's true when it said, in thee, Abraham, shall all families of the earth be blessed, and it also said, in thee shall all nations be blessed. The Gospel is what blesses them, and it's not a physical nation being established in the Middle East, where 98-99% of the people reject the Lord Jesus Christ. That's not a blessing to the world. The blessing is salvation through the blood of Jesus. Christians talk so much about Jerusalem. They call it the Holy Land, the Holy City, and all of these things, but Paul said, here we have no continuing city. That's the Apostle Paul. Here we have no continuing city. That's a flat statement. So, Jerusalem, in the flesh, over in the Middle East, that is not our city at all. Where is our city then? Well, it's the New Jerusalem that's our city, and you know, Zion is another name for Jerusalem. So when we talk about being Zionist or marching to Zion, you know, their Zion is the physical city of Jerusalem, which the Bible says in Galatians 4, Jerusalem that now is, is related to Hagar and represents bondage and is in bondage with her children. Also, the city of Jerusalem in Revelation 11, the Bible says, is spiritually called Sodom and Egypt. You know, why would God call the physical current city of Jerusalem, Sodom and Egypt? Well, I'll tell you why. Because of the fact that it's one of the most homosexual-oriented cities in the whole Middle East. It has literally become a spiritual Sodom and Gomorrah over there, and our capital city as Christians, the Bible says, is the New Jerusalem, which descends down from God out of heaven. So there's actually two Israels there. There's the Israel of the flesh, of the circumcision, that's very wicked, and you're saying, and you're absolutely correct, the book of Revelation is actually identified as Sodom and Egypt. I don't know how much more explicit you could be in identifying the city of evil. Think of that. Sodom and Egypt. That's the Jerusalem that many of these Christians call the Holy Land. They're getting confused. They don't understand where our guidance comes from. We're from the New Jerusalem. You might say the Israel of God. In fact, that's one of the phrases that's used. The Israel of God. That encompasses all Christians of whatever race. Jews, Gentiles, it doesn't matter, does it? It doesn't matter at all. It's like you said, there are two Israels. There's Israel after the flesh, and then there is the Israel of God, the one that God considers the true Israel. Israel after the flesh is an abomination today. They're wicked. They are the most blasphemous people toward our Lord Jesus Christ when it comes to the religions of the world. The religion that is the most blasphemous is Judaism. That's why God identified Judaism as the synagogue of Satan. It's funny because people will argue about the identity of the synagogue of Satan as if there's any question about who it is. Only one religion even uses a synagogue. He says, I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews and are not but are the synagogue of Satan. That's one of the things we go over in this film is all the blasphemy of our Lord Jesus Christ that's found in the holy book of the Jews, the Talmud. Well, you know, I came into the ministry late. I spent a full career in the Air Force, pastor, and I wrote a best-selling Christian book many years ago. I was invited to all kinds of places and spoke to many Christian leaders at the time. But here's the advice they gave me. They said, don't ever preach on the synagogue of Satan because that just confuses people. That was one thing that was told to me. Then I remember a very famous, I think he was the biggest known prophecy teacher in the Assembly of God denomination. He told me don't ever mention the word temple because like in 2 Thessalonians chapter 2 it talks about the Antichrist going into the temple of God and declaring that he's above God and above all gods. He said, but don't preach on that because that's like degrading of the temple. And the temple is so mighty and so holy that we should speak of it only in reverence, in all inspiring terms. He said, I don't even preach on that verse. These are the kinds of things that here I was. I didn't go to seminary and all of that. So I was listening to these people and trying to figure out what they were trying to tell me. But I can see now exactly what they were trying to say. Don't preach. Don't preach the Bible. Don't preach about the synagogue of Satan. Don't warn about an Antichrist going into the temple and declaring that he's above God. They were telling me basically, prostitute the gospel, weren't they? Yeah, and I mean you'd have to definitely ignore a lot of sections of scripture if you want to teach Zionism, if you want to teach that the Jews are still God's chosen people. You're going to have to stay away from Matthew 21. You're going to have to stay away from Galatians 3 and 4, Romans 9, Romans 10, the whole first half of Romans 11. We love to focus on a couple verses at the end of Romans 11 out of context. The whole first part of Romans 11 explains that only the remnant is God's chosen people, the believing remnant through grace. Let's go over that in Romans. You're saying, chapter 10, 11, this is something that comes to me too. I get up by the letter a week saying they're confused because it says there in Romans, and so all Israel shall be saved. And they say, isn't that true then, that all of Israel is going to be saved? And what they're trying to tell me is that all of the Jews will be saved, even those who, I'll just tell you right now, a ministry leader of a group called Friends of Israel named Proseph, the first name is Arno, Arno Proseph, a very large organization, told me that he believes that we do not need to preach Jesus to the Jews. He said the Jews do not need Jesus because he said every Jew that has ever lived, now this is exactly what he told me, he said text every Jew that has ever lived, even all the Jews that died hating Jesus, despising Jesus, every Jew that has ever lived is going to be reborn, and they're going to be resurrected, and they're all going to believe on Jesus spontaneously. Every Jew will become a Christian automatically. Even if they've already rejected Jesus and died and gone, they're going to come back, and every one of them will believe in Jesus. And I asked him in person in the Bible for that, that was so shocking to me, I was fresh in the ministry at the time, and he said, oh well that's been wrong with this, and so all Israel will be saved. Now what would be your response to that? Oh, it's very simple, is that before you read chapter 11, you should read chapters 9 and 10. You know, you can't just jump into the scripture and take a verse out of context. He just finished telling us in Romans 9 that they are not all Israel which are of Israel. And he said in verse 8, that is, they which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted for the seed. So he's saying God's promises to Israel have not gone out of effect, it's just that they're not all Israel which are of Israel. And he says just because you're physically descended from Israel, that doesn't make you Israel in God's sight. You have to be saved by grace to be of Israel in God's sight. And so when it says all Israel shall be saved, well of course all Israel shall be saved once you realize that Israel is only made up of believers, that it's only made up of those who are by grace through faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. That's just Andrew isn't it? Yeah, and I would just turn this around on these Zionists who try to say that these people over in the Middle East, hey they're the true Israel, well the Bible says all Israel shall be saved. And yet most Christians even that are wrong on this topic will admit that Jews who don't believe in Jesus are going to hell when they die, they're not saved. This guy that you're talking about is an extreme guy who said, hey every Jew who's ever lived is going to go to heaven. You know most Christians, most Baptists, even if they're wrong on the subject of Zion and these issues will still admit, well yeah I know the Jews are going to hell, but they're still God's chosen people. And it's like they have this cognitive dissonance where they'll say on one end, well we know the Jews are unsaved, going to hell, God's going to burn them for eternity, but they're still his chosen people, they're still the apple of his eye. You know, why would you send the apple of your eye to hell? It's chosen for what? Why would you send your chosen to hell? That doesn't even make sense. That makes a lot of sense, I'll tell you. And I wouldn't want to be chosen for hell, would you? Absolutely not. Well that certainly explains it who is Israel. Israel is everyone who believes in Jesus Christ. And on the way back to Abraham, and it's interesting that Paul also said that Abraham was before, he actually was preached the gospel and believed it. Right. I wasn't there for that sermon, but Paul said it and I believe it. Isn't that a fantastic thing though, that Abraham, these things were explained to him at some time in history. Well, now let's talk about this film a little bit, Marching to Zion, that we're offering here through the ministry. Now there are four rabbis in the film. How did these rabbis, how did you get them to participate? A lot of rabbis, I'm sure, don't want Christians to know some of these things. Well, you know, first of all, I think that's what makes this film different than any other film on this subject, is that when people watch Marching to Zion, they're going to hear it straight out of the horse's mouth. They're not going to need to trust us to tell them, hey, this is what the Jews believe, this is what they do. No, it's coming out of their own mouths. We got four rabbis from four different denominations of Judaism, so we covered the whole spectrum from orthodox to conservative to reform to the humanist. And the way that I got these guys to participate was simply, I called every single rabbi in the state of Arizona. You know, I found a list of 40-some rabbis, and I figured eventually someone would say yes, and so I just kept calling down the list. And I will say this, I've been accused of lying to these rabbis. You know, the ADL and the Southern Poverty Law Center have already done about three or four articles attacking the film, even before it came out. And they're saying, you know, Pastor Anderson has lied and deceived these rabbis, and he deceived a Holocaust survivor and all this stuff. And in reality, I didn't lie to them whatsoever. I told them that I was making a film about Judaism and the history of the nation of Israel, and I even sent them the list of all the questions I was going to ask in advance, and that's all that I asked them was what was on that list. But I just never told them whether the film was going to be positive or negative, and they just assumed that since I'm an evangelical Christian that I'm going to bow down and worship Israel. That was their assumption. Well, now, I was interviewed for a couple of hours for this film. I noticed they didn't take very much out of it for me. They put me in it. I don't know how many minutes. But I was questioned for two and a half hours, and, well, all you have to do is tell the truth. How can I be deceived unless I tried to lie to you? Do you see what I'm saying? Exactly. I mean, all I did was ask them questions. I answered your question. Yeah, I asked them questions, and they answered it. But the thing is, they just assumed that I was going to make them look really good is what they assumed. What are the kinds of questions that these rabbis, what were they asked? What are your questions? Well, the list of questions that I had was I asked them, for example, what the Shekinah is, the Shekinah. I asked them about that, and, of course, they told me how it's the feminine half of God and all these weird New Age-type doctrines that they have from the Kabbalah. I asked them questions about the history. I had them explain to me why they don't do animal sacrifices anymore. I had questions about circumcision, questions about all manner of things. And in reality, I didn't even have any questions on the list about Jesus. But they brought up Jesus in the interviews in order to tell me why they don't believe in Him, to blaspheme His name, and they all took the conversation that direction. That wasn't even one of the questions on my list because I didn't want to spook them with question number one, why did you kill Jesus? So the questions that I brought to the interview were benign, but those are the questions that I asked. And I just asked them about the different types of Judaism, what they believe. I asked them, you know, what they believe about the Talmud versus the Torah. And, of course, they told me, oh yeah, the Talmud is the Word of God, and so on. So... Well, that seems like a very fair thing, then, you know. Any pastor should be willing. In fact, the Bible says, always be ready with an answer. I mean, be ready. So these guys should have been ready. Of course, they really can't be required to, we know they're not going to follow the Bible. But it does say there, you know, be in season, out of season. So a pastor should be, I don't care, you know, I know several times I've been interviewed, and I knew where the people were coming from. They were really very anti-Christian. But they didn't realize that I knew what they were. And I just answered it the way I always do. You know, they can say anything about me that they want to, and try to make me look like a fool, but I'm still going to answer the same way. And these guys, I'm sure, did too. Now, did you talk to any of them about the DNA issue? The question of whether they are Khazars or Jews? Yes, I did, actually. I talked to them about the DNA issue. And what's interesting is that when I talked to Rabbi Abrami, he's the real angry, animated rabbi in the film, who's sticking his finger in my face and yelling at me the whole time. I asked him specifically, and he flat out told me that he doesn't think that he even descends from Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob whatsoever. He said that he's a descendant of converts, he thinks. But he told us that nobody knows, because he said, you know, we don't know. Nobody's genealogy goes back that far. And then the orthodox rabbi, Rabbi Mann, he said, I don't know what tribe I'm of. We don't have genealogies that go back that far. So all of them said that they don't really know for sure if they're even descended from Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. And one of them flat out said that he believes that he's a complete Gentile, you know, as far as ethnically speaking. But yet he's one of the chosen ones somehow, just by worshipping the anti-Christ religion of Judaism that makes him chosen, apparently. The thing about the Shekinah, I've heard a lot of preachers, even Baptist pastors, giving entire sermons on the Shekinah. Actually, I had one of them while I was in the service, and he led a prayer to the Shekinah. And who is the Shekinah? Maybe I should just, we've only got a few more minutes, maybe I should get that out of the way, maybe come back to it. But who do these rabbis say the Shekinah was? Well, basically they say it's the feminine half of God, which of course the God that we know from the Bible doesn't have a feminine half. And that they said that there's some kind of a divine romance going on, you know, between the male and the female aspect of God. And then they have the gall to criticize the Trinity, you know, when they have this strange dual thing going on between a man and a woman. But I grew up my whole life hearing them talk about the Shekinah glory, and I always just assume that they're going back to the Hebrew, you know, that they were using a Hebrew word from the Bible, from the Old Testament. But in fact, the word Shekinah was something that was invented after the Jews rejected the Lord Jesus Christ. It's not in the Old Testament a single time, and it's this New Age teaching, you know, worshiping Mother Earth and Gaia, you know, this feminine deity of Hinduism and so forth. You know, and then the Jews have this idea of Shekinah, and when they refer to God as Shekinah, they use the pronouns she and her to refer to God when they talk to God by, you know, his or her name of Shekinah. So that's what these rabbis told us. This pastor, he tried to tell his congregation that the Shekinah was the glory of God that would cover us. The Shekinah was the glory of God. He never got into the feminine thing. I understand that one pastor did a huge search. I forget the guy's name. I think he's passed away now, but he was accused of all kinds of indiscretions, let's say, with the ladies before he left. It was up in Indiana, and I forget. Oh, Scopp, Jack Scopp. Yeah, well, the predecessor, the guy that built that church. Jack Hyles, yep. Yeah, yeah, that's it, okay. That guy had a huge search and a lot of influence, but he also spoke about the Shekinah and the femininity of God, and they got into all this. So these people are really preaching from the Kabbalah, a devil's book. They may not know it, but they are. Well, yeah, and I think that a lot of these pastors, they just repeat it. You know, they hear somebody like Jack Hyles say it, and, you know, he probably got it from someone else. So somebody brought in this damnable heresy, blaspheming God and teaching that he is a woman or part-woman or feminine or whatever, and then it just gets repeated over and over again. You know, there are, I believe, you know, of course, false prophets who creep in, you know, wolves amongst the sheep, and some of them are what's known as a crypto-Jew, where basically someone who's not really a believer in Jesus Christ, they're actually a Jew, will infiltrate in order to bring in this kind of heresy, and then it gets picked up and repeated. And, of course, if you write a book as a Christian about the Shekinah or anything pro-Jewish, you're going to get published because, of course, all the publishing houses are all run by Jews, so they control the media. I'll tell you, Professor, we're out of time. I want to invite you back again. We've got to do a whole hour on this more than we've done already. We've just barely touched the subject, the surface of marching to Zion, and I know people are so interested in this, and I want them to understand how this is a great defeat, and how so many have been led the primrose path to hell through this horrible witchcraft teaching. But I want to thank you for coming to Power Prophecy today to explain this wonderful video, Marching to Zion. Thanks for having me on. All right. Stay with us, won't you? We'll talk right after I let the folks go. Well, did you get a blessing from today? I did, but I want more of a blessing. I want to hear more about Marching to Zion, and I know you do, too. So be sure to listen and look at our newsletter and steps. We'll be offering this video. If you didn't get the information, you can order it from us for $25. It includes shipping and handling. Ask for Marching to Zion, and thank God that people like Pastor Steven Anderson love the Word, they're faithful to the Word, and they want you to know the true Word of God. Well, until next week, tune in and discover the Power of Prophecy.