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7.17 is your time. Very good morning to you and thank you so much for being with us on Breakfast with Reg. Welcome to The Point. You heard me speak to him briefly just before we went to the news. Pastor Steve Anderson is in Botswana, arrived last Thursday. He's already heard he had his first church service right here in Botswana and he's already seen what at least what some of the problems that we have are. One of that alcoholism. He says that we drink too much alcohol in this country and he says that you know what I'm going to continue preaching up against homosexuals. You remember that he's the that pastor who was is the controversial pastor who South Africa said you know what we are not going to be to allow you to come into the country because what we think you're preaching is nothing but hate speech and he said you know it's okay I feel it's a disappointment that I'm not able to go to South Africa but you know what I'm gonna go to Botswana and I'm gonna spread the Word of God. Well he's agreed to speak to us this morning. He's in the studio and he's not alone. He's by the way the founder and pastor at the Faithful Word Baptist Church in the United States. They've set a branch up here in Klukwing and I'm also with Reverend Thabo Mampani, second vice president of the Botswana Council of Churches and pastor at the Evangelical Lutheran Church in Botswana. Ken Youngman of the Lesbians, Gays and Bisexuals of Botswana, Lechabiwa, the Advocacy Officer is going to be joining us a little bit later. Gentlemen, very good morning to you. Thank you so much for being with us this morning. Let me start off with you, Pastor Anderson. Controversial you are, that you cannot deny that. First, how has been your your your your reception? How has been the reception in Botswana? Oh the reception has been great. In fact the reception here is better than the reception in the United States. Yeah and why do you think that is? Well I think that people here are more friendly and willing to talk whereas in the United States sometimes people are just too busy, life is more fast-paced and people are less religious in the United States so a lot of them just don't have an interest in spiritual things. Right. So here we can walk up and down the street and people love to talk and when I preach the gospel to them they're happy to listen and they like it and we get along great. I love this country. Right. Why then do you come here and minister here when more you say more people in the United States are less likely inclined to to you know talk about the Word of God? Well we want to do both. You know we want to be here and there. The reason that we chose Botswana is because you know one of our main church members who's a great preacher at our church he is marrying a girl from Molle Polle that he met in the United States while she was studying abroad. Right. And so we decided that this was a great opportunity to send him here to preach the Word of God for the rest of his life to the Botswana people and so you know we want to preach the gospel to to all nations United States and Botswana. You don't preach the gospel you spew hate speech that's what some people have been saying. Well they said the same thing about Jesus they called Jesus the devil they called him Beelzebub and you know they killed him for a reason because they did not like him and Jesus said if they hated me you know that they will hate you also. And just to quote some of the the the utterances that you've made you you've actually been you have been quoted as having you know been against the Orlando massacre where around about 50 people were killed and well you have said that you would not you just tell us that what it is that you said. Well I made it very clear that I do not condone a violence I'm a totally non-violent person and I did not approve of a guy going in there and just shooting up the place. Right. But I said I will not be sad about it or mourn about it because the people that were victims were disgusting homosexuals who the Bible says are worthy of death the Bible says that the government should put them to death so why would I be sad if these horrible people died that the Bible said should die anyway. So you believe that the government should be killing homosexuals? Yes I do absolutely. One of the other quotes if the Bible condones slavery then I condone slavery because the Bible's always right about every subject. Yes and I do not believe that the Bible condones slavery but it was asked the question if it did yes I would condone it because the Bible is always right and I am not smarter than God so if I have a different opinion than what the Bible says I'm going to go with what the Bible says. Right even if slavery from a humanity perspective is wrong? Well the Bible says that we should trust in the Lord with all our heart and not lean upon our own understanding so God is smarter than me so I get all my opinions from the Bible I don't just make things up on my own I get it from the Bible so whatever the Bible says is always right about every subject. You believe that too many Botswana are alcoholics what else do you think is a problem here? Well you know I've only been here for a few days and most of the things in Botswana I like better than the United States most things I love it here that's the big thing that has sort of stood out to me it seems like drunkenness and and alcoholism is a big problem here I've noticed it a lot of drinking everywhere I look. What can be done about it? Well I think the preaching of God's word is the only answer I don't think it's the government's job to fix it I think we need the preachers in Botswana to start preaching harder sermons against alcohol and preach hard from the Bible preach all the scriptures that are against alcohol that's the answer. Right let's see what the what the preachers here are doing um reverend reverend we we we had a discussion last week about um the the visit you have pastor Anderson that firstly against it you still are against it but he's here what what what do you say in response to what he's just been saying uh I I wonder if this man is a Christian and the way he says the things I doubt his Christianity because Christians Christianity is all about love love God with all your soul and mind with you all your strength and love your neighbor as much as you love yourself so if somebody say he hates people I doubt if we're in the right path we are in the same track me and him well he doesn't he didn't say he hates people he says yeah no I did say that I hate people oh yeah I do hate homosexuals hate homosexuals I only hate homosexuals though I do not hate other people yeah only homosexuals are people you know they're part of the society why do we hate them that's why the reason why Jesus Christ died for us is for us to repent each and everyone and one one makes us to think that God is only for those who are not homosexuals God is God for all of us either you're a gay or gay we all belong to God that's why he gave the sun to those who don't even believe in him either you're a Muslim or Islamic whatever religion you are he is still our God and I know I can't take it when I hear a God-fearing person someone who claims to be a preacher of the word to say that he hates homosexuals what makes him to be special than other people what makes him to think that he is better than other people even all himself he's we are all sinners that's why he just came here and we have to preach the gospel of we have to preach the gospel of love me and him well you know what God showed what he thought about homosexuals when he destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah and in the New Testament he refers back to that and he says even as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities about them in like manner giving themselves over to fornication and going after strange flesh or queer flesh are set forth for an example suffering the vengeance of eternal fire so if you want an example of what God thinks about homosexual it's fire and brimstone being rained on Sodom and Gomorrah I don't know what Bible this guy's reading but open the Bible to Genesis 19 and it's crystal clear I guess we have to know the Bible and the context of the Bible why was the Bible written in that way and the context of the people they were writing about that time we have to contextualize the Bible make the Bible talk to us like now not to talk to the people like if you used to talk to them some years ago like right now when the Bible says if you sin if your eye make you sin you should poke your eye I've seen a lot of us we are sinning because we are seeing beautiful girls but we are all all of us we have all our eyes why do we take part of the Bible and make it a and just take on part of the Bible never say if you are an adult you must go to death the woman was supposed to be told to death by the time of Jesus but we have people seeing people in church doing all this thing people everywhere are doing that but we never say because people are doing that even prostitution we are not killing them they are part of the society we talk to them I do believe that adulterers should be stoned to death right I believe the death penalty should be on adultery and when our country was founded in America the Massachusetts bay colony and in the first few hundred years of America adultery and homosexuality were both punished by the death penalty in America in the 1700s 1800s it's the Bible it's the word of God so what's changed well I did they start reading a different Bible well part of it is that no no no no this is a different Bible no no they're not reading a different Bible you know they contextualize the Bible they make the Bible to talk to them and this present situation that's why we say the Bible should come every time we cannot talk to the make the Bible to pray the same gospel that we are preaching to two thousand years ago by the time of Jesus we make the Bible to talk to us in a any situation that that's why we say we are contextualizing in our context in our situation in our area how do we understand God that way that's why you see when we baptize we baptize in a different way because people say we have to take somebody to a demo to a river but in people in a country where there is no rivers what do you do we use a small cup as long as the importance of it would be water and the word of God right that is wrong we still don't people underwater they need to be baptized underwater and Jesus Christ is the same yesterday let me talk no it's not wrong let me explain to you we as the most important thing is the word of God is water in the word of God if there's no if there's a in a desert how are you going to baptize people in the desert where there's no you think that the word of God changes the Bible says Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever and you think you're smarter than the Bible with your little cup of water you need to dunk somebody in a bathtub if you can't find a river you find a swimming pool and if there's no water and if there's no water you do what i do if there's no water then human beings would be dead because human beings can't live without water everywhere human beings live i mean you know water to deep inside can i can i jump in there i'm still here guys pastor anderson reverend manpan has brought in an interesting an interesting point with regards to the cup of water in the river and whatnot and i think it goes back to his um his point of contextualizing everything that we read in the bible uh you know contemporary world now this issue about the the you're saying a tub and yet he's saying that in the past they were using rivers so wouldn't you be then deviating from what no okay the bible does not say you have to use a river okay but it says that we are buried with him by baptism okay buried under the water it pictures the death burial and resurrection of jesus christ and when jesus was baptized he went down into the water he came up out of the water this guy thinks that he's better than jesus christ time there were enough rivers at that time what about even in a dozen like busan what are you going to do if deep in khalakad whether it's not even a stream what are you going to use yeah okay so you you you do not agree with his position not at all i even doubt his position as a pastor yes yeah yeah he thinks he can just ignore the bible and do whatever he wants and baptize people with a little sprinkle what if you are wrong pastor anderson have you ever thought about it i know for a fact have you ever thought about it that absolutely a minute i'm only human what if my position and in fact in fact i've thought about it often but one thing i know is never wrong is the bible the word of god i may be wrong the bible is never wrong and you'll never find this little cup of water sprinkling nonsense in the bible they go under the water they come out of the water it pictures the death burial and resurrection of jesus christ and if you can't find water you better go look for some water and dunk them so so um what all these other churches are doing the catholics are doing it so you got all these billions of people in the world who are doing that yeah actually doing the wrong thing oh they're ignoring lots of the bible they ignored the part about homosexuality right they ignore the part about baptism so they're going to hell basically but but may i may ask you because i don't know the bible says the woman doesn't have to say anything in a church they have to come and sing and go back home but we see people women a lot of churches here the ministers are the women and we still i don't respect that no minister should be a woman the bible says that women should keep silent in the church and that men are to preach in church and any female pastor is in disobedience to god's word men are the preachers according to the bible let me bring in quickly because i've got to go to the news headlines let me bring in um kane youngman here kane you are you're you're a homosexual and uh listening to pastor anderson saying the government actually should kill you what do you say well i have all sorts of issues with that and i'm i'm glad that we live in botwana where the constitution actually protects people from the freedom of conscience for me to be able to be who i am for me to be able to practice whatever religion i choose i have issues with pastor anderson is sitting here saved and the real bible he's talking about is against him shaving he's saving yeah he's well kept you're saying the bible never says that shaving is wrong don't open that piece of junk this bible that the pastor to my left has is not a real bible okay it's a new translation that takes out entire verses hell god i have the king james bible the original no wait wait wait wait let's not mislead the people here even take off the bible now you have to talk to the some of us uh because scholars i will tell you how did you create the bible and what makes us to understand the bible you know that the first bible in english absolutely i have a greek new testament i read the greek new testament i'm familiar with that of course yeah but that bible that you have there is a corrupted piece of junk piece of junk because they have taken out entire verses you need a king james bible that versus that bible takes out verses that are controversial it takes out the word hell takes out bastard piss damn it takes out everything and softens it up and that's why we have a bunch of soft preaching behind the pulpit because they have this watered down fake bible instead of the real bible the king james bible reggie that isn't what i wanted to say was that my concern is that the way the approach that the pastor is using is that right now almost every year we have close to 400 dropouts school girls they drop out because of teenage pregnancy and the bible said there must be storms death with pastor anderson here we're going to have no nobody nobody remaining in the world so we nobody remaining in the world and from our setup in the family structure in bojana most of us come from household where we practice um where we practice it's no i'm trying to remember i don't need to okay okay it's our cohabitation cohabitation not only even back in america yeah no but he's saying it's wrong because i've never i've never lived all over the world yes but but that's what he's saying it's wrong what we are doing is wrong yeah so exactly how many people are we going to kill in bojana when is it enough yeah um pastor anderson where do you where do you think homosexuals come from do you think they they do it themselves they want to they want to be like that i i think that they're evil haters of god and the bible says that he gives them over to a reprobate mind in romans one and he gives them the heart of a beast to do what an animal would do first of all i'm not going to listen to somebody interpret the bible or tell me what right and wrong is this guy doesn't even know the proper place to put his his reproductive organ all right this guy this guy absolutely he should be killed that's what the bible says guys i know i'm sure he loves i'm sure he loves little boys too homosexuals are pedophiles okay um can i can i say this can i can i can i say this can can please just hold the thought because i'm very late for the news headlines i'm gonna go to the news headlines when we come back we'll continue with this discussion like us on facebook at breakfast with reg the views and opinions expressed on this show are not necessarily those of the management or the station the gabs fm hotline dial three nine five six nine six two and have your say or sms on one four nine six two and be part of the conversation 742 is your time a very good morning to you thank you so much for being with us on breakfast with reg welcome to the second part of the point and uh you for those of you who've been listening um uh just before the news headlines you know what what it is that we are talking about i can see this so many of you want to to jump in and start talking about this but i'm gonna have to ask you to hold off for a little while controversial anti-pasta uh anti-gay pastor steve anderson uh arrived in butswana last thursday held his first church service in butswana on sunday he says he has already diagnosed that butswana are our colleagues and has attacked local pastors for being toothless because they are not preaching against the huge immorality in this country he also says that the government he believes that the government must kill homosexuals and pedophiles pregnant school girls and that if slavery you you you'll correct yourself sir if slavery we are allowed in the bible he would support it and that women must never be allowed to preach in churches he has rubbished the good news bible as a piece of junk and that the king james bible is the only bible that should be read now anderson is here with us in the studio and he's going head to head with reverend tabo mampani and kane youngman kane youngman is from nihabibo reverend mampani is the second vice president of the butswana council of churches and pastor at the evangelical lutheran church in butswana pasta anderson is the founder and pasta at faithful word baptist church in the united states well the bcc the butswana council of uh churches released a statement denouncing um the utterances by uh pasta anderson and uh they were saying that this is not what the bible preaches the bible preaches love and and and all those uh things um but let's continue with the discussion i'm going to be taking your calls on three nine five six nine six two one four nine six three is the sms line and breakfast with rich is our facebook page plus i understand you were saying that no you didn't say that yes i i never said that pregnant school girls should be killed that is not true that's what this homosexual to my right accused the bible of saying but obviously a homosexual is not qualified to teach us what the bible says he doesn't even know the difference between man and woman okay what what what was the the statement that you you made the point that you made with regards to the bible and um getting pregnant out of wedlock exactly the bible is saying pregnancy out of wedlock it says so in um leviticus 2010-12 i was saying the reverend the pastor should explain and what does it say what does it say about getting pregnant out of wedlock if you get pregnant or if you lie about your virginity before you get married you should be taken to the city center and be stoned to death so if you can explain how is that different from what i was saying he's making things up and he said oh it's it's leviticus 20 verse 10 leviticus 20 verse 10 says no such thing yes you did well everybody heard that's fine we cannot go about which which recipes is that what the bible says that is not what it says okay what does it say the bible says that if if a girl you know gets pregnant out of wedlock if a man and a woman have intercourse okay and they're not married that the man has to marry the girl if she and her father are willing to give her to him in marriage and if they're not willing to give her to him in marriage he has to pay the family money for taking away her virginity 50 shekels of silver all right that's what it says so it's not it's not a it's not a big issue then no no god does not punish people with death for having sex outside of marriage he punishes adultery with that that's when married people also people can have uh sex no they cannot it is a sin but it is not the government's job to punish because there's a difference between crime and sin right okay so it's a sin but it should not be a crime adultery should be a crime murder is a crime but if we were if every sin were a crime we would all go to jail every day because we all sin you know nobody's perfect right but these huge things like murder adultery rape those are crimes right okay those should be punished by the government it's not the government's job to punish drunkenness or fornication their sins what is okay but but they're sins but it's it's not the government job to fix the alcohol problem it's the preachers need to get some you know get more manly and preach harder against sin instead of being a bunch of sissies okay help us help us understand this um crime and sin help help us understand the difference yes well sin is anytime we disobey anything that the bible tells us anytime we disobey the commandments so lying is a sin disobeying our parents is a sin stealing is a sin drinking alcohol is a sin but those should not be against the law right so bible is lying should not be punished by the government exactly right so even if you were to lie to the courts you should not be punished well if you lie under oath in a courtroom that is punished what is this what is the difference well because the bible says that thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor so if you go into court so it's a sin you bear false witness that is a crime in court it's a crime how do you justify that it's a crime if it goes to court and it should be punished as opposed to just lying in general this is why because in the law of god which is found in exodus leviticus numbers in deuteronomy the bible says that if you go to court and you testify against someone falsely you are to be punished by the government whatever the punishment was for the person you are accusing you receive that punishment okay that's a crime whereas drinking i believe drinking is a sin but i do not believe that it should be against the law because the bible does not ever give the authority to the government to punish drinking or or to punish fornication you know people who have sex outside of marriage so there's a difference between crime and sin all right okay um you i i wanted you to to to finish off what you were saying and pastor anderson is not missing his words he's saying that um the way he's making references to you uh he says that you should be you should be you should be killed that's homo he calls you that's homosexual to my right what do you think of all of this that he's saying oh for me it's simple the pastor needs help yeah he's a very sick man the way he says he really needs help how what do you mean he's sick in terms of what because it it would seem like he dictates terms of what to use in the bible and what not listen to him justifying certain things things that are there in black and white he's justifying things to suit himself you see this is what i find disturbing this is why there is a constitution to say okay we as human beings we always have different opinions but for us to at least live peacefully and civilly amongst each other this is why we have a constitution it's because of people like pastor here are you i i uh pastor are you are you sorry and i think it will be pro it's unproper to call this guy a pastor he just said the gentleman next to me because i doubt him being a pastor a pastor cannot at all with kind those kind of ways give us our beg of your breadcrumb as a pastor so i'll give him that respect and call him a pastor i don't care whether he calls me this homosexual in my right he can disrespect me all the way it's kind of funny that this man it's kind of funny when somebody who likes to eat dung who likes to eat feces calls you that you need help i need help this guy has sex with other men right i mean any normal person even if they're not even a christian knows that that's disgusting and filthy okay now let me give you my background okay my background is that i was born and raised in a christian home in the united states i've gone to a baptist church my entire life my dad was an electrician his dad was an electrician and before that electricity had not been invented yet okay and so i grew up in church i love the bible i love the word of god and i preach the bible i don't care what some council of churches says somewhere i'm gonna go with what the bible says yes there are false prophets in the bible hundreds of false prophets and when elijah stood up and elijah was the only one preaching the truth there were 850 phony preachers who were lying to the people you have nine kids just this guy is like a prop just to bail just a sec just a sec uh ref please um pastor understand you've got nine kids yes i'm married and with nine children right you you you are 35 years old 35 years old and you started when you started your own church at 24 when i was 24 you believe that you're destined to be yes i do absolutely i believe that god has chosen me to be a prophet to the nations to preach the word of god and to sound it out with no fear with boldness not like these preachers who are only interested in people's money so they tell them what they want to hear for money i don't i don't want your money i want to preach the truth and you can like it or love it do you do you believe that you you spew hate speech do you believe that um you the way your approach is it may be uncomfortable for some people do you believe that it could be wrong my approach is not wrong because if you read isaiah jeremiah ezekiel and then you read about jesus and the apostle paul they preached our jesus the bible tells jesus yelled when he preached he called pastors like this guy to my left who wear long robes he said the sadducees and the pharisees were serpents and vipers and he said they were of the devil and he said beware of the scribes that like to go in long robes he said watch out for those guys so you you you believe that he's false absolutely you believe that all of those that uh weigh the same kind of well i think that some some might just wear the long robes through ignorance because they have not read that verse in mark chapter 12 where jesus said beware of the preachers who go in long robes they might be ignorant this guy to my left is for sure false because he thinks homosexuality is fine you know that is just so contrary to the bible why did god destroy sodom and gomorrah because they were filthy homosexuals are you the judge god is the judge god is the judge okay leave this guy this guy is a fake and we cannot come and entertain our feet we are not there to see who we are not here for a debate we are here for a for for talking for discussing for dialoguing to know what is the way forward what are we saying about about the gays about the lesbians in the society and if somebody a fake person like this who claims to be a pastor say it talks like this except expect us the less not to listen to this kind of rubbish and we said this is a good feeling person i doubt his christianity i doubt himself i doubt his love because christianity is all about love and christianity is all is all about compassion you've got love for your neighbor love for your god love for your every person and this guy next to me claims to be a christian anyway want us to listen to this well he's a waste of time that's what he's saying you're false he's himself is a force the way he uttered these speeches he's not even preaching he's not he's quoting he's quoting out of context the quote that he's doing is out of context but reverend have you ever but reverend have you ever i was asking him the same thing have you ever maybe at one point in your life said to yourself maybe i'm doing things things the wrong with maybe this is not what god is saying i should do maybe that what i'm preaching is is is wrong my brother i went for theological studies okay don't take me like any other person you see around my lectures in the university will tell you that i was one of the best students in my time i did my i did my diploma in personal theology i've got my degree in theology i've got masters in theology i've studied theology that doesn't make you right that doesn't make you right listen listen listen listen rich i will stand and i will stay and go for counseling to know to want to know my questions and to feel what is my question saying to me and i'll ask people elderly persons other elderly persons to preach for me if at all i think i am out of the context i always want people to come and correct me those who understand the scripture better than myself i'll go to the bishop i'll go to either the catholic bishop and we discuss things and to ask him if god is still in control am i am i still relevant for now if i'm not relevant i will leave the ministry right yes right pastandes and what do you say to that well i think that the listeners at home are smart enough to figure out who's fake and who's not let them decide and this guy can brag about all his theological degrees and brag about all these accolades you know what i got i got the holy spirit and the word of god and the bible says in leviticus 2013 that if a man no listen don't think any spirit is the spirit from god what makes you that the spirit that tells you that is the spirit of god you should know spirit maybe i fall in the spirit of because the spirit that tells me that agrees with the bible in leviticus 2013 when it says that if a man lie with mankind as he lies with a woman both of them have committed an abomination they shall surely be put to death their blood shall be upon them if the bible agrees with my spirit then i got the holy spirit you have an unclean spirit right that spirit is yours my brother that's why i say you're against people well you know what i love people too i love children which is why i hate pedophiles and you can't love the flowers without hating the weeds you can't love the flowers without hating the weeds uh three nine five six nine six two three nine five six nine six two that's the number that i would like you to call me on right now um one four nine six is the sms line and um breakfast with ranch is our facebook page i'm so exhausted right now from hearing you guys not even me speaking but hearing you guys ranch the mochana pastor should cool down please advise him another one says pastor anderson is absolutely right in everything please ask directions to the church uh wanna go visit this from bse another one said reverend manpani anger is a sin come down ra kroha holowa huh kroha holowa full of food bitter must read in actual fact um i'll tell you just one thing that is that is actually happening as we speak uh pastor anderson is arrogant wasn't he briefed about sejuana culture kantia ahahona a reformed homosexual limite reworking both sides and uh another one says another one says um i like anderson being straight but i disagree with death penalty for gays we are under grace so we preach to them to repent but lampani is such if um i get it before i take one or two calls before i go to the news directions to the church okay directions so the church let me give the directions yes okay so hey hey be quiet i'm giving the directions hey he said they want it we're giving it to him you go down the tlok wang road if riverwalk is on your right you're heading toward the tlok wang road and you get to a service station on the right that is called one filling station you turn right at the filling station and you curve around the filling station second dirt road on the right it is plot 5856 and so uh that's how people get to the church we have services sunday mornings at 10 30 a.m sunday evenings at 6 p.m wednesday evenings at 6 p.m and tlok wang it's very close to the one filling station just right behind it you curve around take the second dirt road on the right there's a lot happening in the studio this morning i see immigration officials uh just outside the studio we are trying to find out what they are doing here because i know i don't have an interview with them i don't know whether they are here for you pastor anderson um talking about immigration they they um we we understand the way you had to to get to buzwana is um through uganda is that it? Ethiopia you can't go through the uk? no i cannot go through the uk cannot go through johannesburg or cape town because of your sentiments well because i've been banned from south africa and the united kingdom because they're afraid of what i have to say they're afraid of the truth yes so they want to silence me because they know that the words that i'm preaching from the bible have power and they're scared right of the truth all right three nine five six nine six two gabes affirm your life the bible says satan he must create like the angel of light right i i hear that i hear that most people work out on the church should preach love should preach love should preach love but remember that satan went and talked through peter what's your point what's your point is it like they they are the bible is straight and forward there is no there is no like eggy all the things that he gave okay thank you so much gabs you're live hey my name is just a quick one um you know what what the pastor anderson is preaching is definitely hate not being a christian i'm against the homosexuality not the homosexuals love the people hate the scene we should differentiate the two that's what i can say okay thank you sir gives up from your life hello yes go on please how are you you know what i i i for me i just want to to say i don't have to listen to any of the past is there right talking there are certain things that when we were created as human beings you're literally given brains to think there are certain things that gives you the shrink or the that that feeling when something that you're doing is wrong like a quotient thing so certain things like maybe homosexuals it still gives you that feeling that is not right but you still go back to your testament your your ten commandments as a as a christian to read the bible says love thy neighbor so and for pastor anderson to say kill homosexual for me it's a bit i don't know who's supposed to do the killing okay like is it him or whoever because the bible says do not kill at the same time thank you so much mister anderson are you eating yes the is is the judge i'm sorry what was are you judging isn't that what the bible yeah but no the bible says that we should this is what jesus said judge not after the appearance but judge righteous judgment the bible says do you not know that the saints shall judge the world and if the world shall be judged by us he said we're going to judge angels how much more things that pertain to this life so they take that verse judge not that's not the whole verse they need to read the whole passage matthew seven verses one through five because he tells you just don't be a hypocrite when you judge once you get the beam out of your own eye then you can take the speck out of your brother's eye because you're not being a hypocrite okay have you taken the speck out of your eye well absolutely because i i am faithful to my wife i don't just you know have sex with everything that moves okay pastor stephen stephen hansen founder and pastor at faithful world uh word baptist church in the united states uh reverend tom oman panasek and vice president of the buzzwana council of churches and pastor at the evangelical lutheran church in in buzzwana king young man from lehabibo he's the advocacy officer there i'm gonna go to the news bulletin we are going to continue this discussion on the other side because i haven't been able to take your calls i can see lili di toronto niana but like i was saying immigration officials for for the first time ever they're here and i believe that they want to have a word with uh pastor anderson we'll try to find out what the whole issue is about 8 12 is your time very good morning to you thank you so much for being with us on breakfast with reg and uh welcome we're still continuing with this discussion that we are having with regards to um the presence of pasta anderson in the country controversial anti-gay pasta arrived thursday at the service on sunday and uh he's already identified what he sees as problematic in in in our society in buzzwana and he says you know alcoholism is a problem and he's also attacked pastas for being um for being toothless saying that he says that they are sissies because they are not preaching against the huge immorality in the country he says the government must kill homosexuals pedophiles and um that if silly slavery were allowed in the bible he would support it and he doesn't think that women should should be allowed to preach in churches is rubbish the new good news bible uh version as a piece of junk and that the king james bible is the only bible that should be read anderson is here in the studio by the way he's the founder and pastor at the faithful word baptist church in the united states reverend tama bambani is also here second vice president of the buzzwana council of churches and pasta at the evangelical Lutheran church in in buzzwana kane youngman is an advocacy at the habibo i'm going to go straight to the calls and then i'm going to ask you to make them very brief because obviously there are so many of you who still want to have a say and uh have to read your sms and your comments on our facebook page gives up from your life hello make it we are among yes ma'am in the bible there's no way you cannot annoy people who are preaching the compromised gospels because apostle paul in the book of such that in galatian chapter one verse eight early whoever preaches the gospel that they do not preach is cursed so whoever is compromising what the bible says is cursed so we are not going to compromise and brag about things that are social illness like kore kohadi place in the mobile phone water we should be praying that god should bless us with marriages that god should heal our nation from uh homosexuality so that our children can be freed from that evil spirit right so basically you are agreeing with what has to understand is uh this position all right thank you so much make ebsa from your life i agree with your america plus tunderson yes plus tunderson is on the right track i agree you know you cannot amend the bible if god said uh homosexual should be stoned to death not a thing i mean you cannot say no because of the new testament god cannot change his mind so what why are you not doing it no i agree with your government amen it should be the government yes amen i agree with the caller it should be a government okay so the pastor is on the right track thank you thank you thank you from your life please go ahead sir yes rajee pastor anderson is on point okay the thing is we have people who are covering the truth with a lot of lies god has never condoned the homosexuality from the onset it is actually even repeatedly covered in most scriptures hoorah is this thing but the problem is that we are trying to use our human feelings to at least recover and to cater for these people amongst us you know having something that is sinful doesn't mean hooray or we accept it it's kind of like we are living with those people accept we need to have somebody who comes and wakens us apart but this is not the right thing we need to accept the truth homosexuality is not really what god is condoning thank you i agree with gives us from your life hello yeah i wanted to comment about one scripture yes uh mentioned the scripture leviticus 20 verse 13 talking about the fact that if a man lies with mankind as though it's a woman then they must be put to death in leviticus 20 that's number 10 it says and the woman and the men that committed adultery with another man's wife even he that committed adultery with his neighbor's wife the adulterer and the adulterous shall surely be put to death this is the same vertical so i don't understand how pastor anderson can choose i agree with both scriptures i believe that adulterous should be put to death you have previously said that that adultery is not a sin it i did not say that no no no did you say it's also a crime or do you say you said it's a sin not a crime no no i said it is a sin and a crime and i believe both verse 10 and verse 13 they're both right should also be put yes yes i do but previously you didn't okay no that's okay it was a misunderstanding i've always okay so he says all of them should both of them should be put to death yes now even if it was to say that i was just pointing out that previously he did not say that no that no it was a misunderstanding it's okay the the the jesus that came to die for us came for the reason that we should be loving not to condemn other people i understand another caller said that we should hate the thing and love people i don't know why and where the bible says we should hate people it says that we should hate him and love people so there's nothing wrong with loving people and hating sin okay this is what you should be preaching thank you so much me gibbs up from your live gibbs up from your live um hello who am i speaking to where you're calling us from uh you're speaking to fraud um in cabroni right um the the issue that anderson is actually presenting yeah part of it is quite true but the rest of the portion really is not what are you not in agreement with yeah because um the issue of of a man sleeping with another man this is a woman sorry hello scripture in terms of the old testament and new tests the old testament was subject to the earthly sanctuary but currently we are dealing with a situation of the heavenly sanctuary where in that way i'm gonna have to let you go your line is not clear i'm sorry gibbs of him you're live hello good morning really cleaning please go ahead um i'm so disappointed to see two gosh generous in the studio who are contradicting one another in the sense that they're supposed to be saying the same things because they're preaching from the same gospel i agree with past i understand that god is against um gays but the words that come from his mouth some of them they're not fit because the bible says that whatever comes from your mouth must be seasoned so there is a way that he can portray this and tell the truth that is from the gospel as for the other pastor i don't know where he's getting this from as a man of god what you know for you to have you have to have the inspiration of the holy spirit to preach the cross path right you can go you can have as many muscles as you want but if god is not using you forget it right thank you so much so we are told about love what is talking about love and if you kill a person because they are gay you have not solved the problem because you are killing the flesh but that spirit that was at work with them they're going abroad elsewhere so we need to pray for such people and we don't need to judge them but to preach the gospel and tell them from the scripture that god does not like this right because we understand that gays thieves you know people who phone a case people who lie it's not they're not responsible for that there's a spirit behind that okay thank you so much gives a from your life my point um to pastor anderson i agree with everything you say except the fact that you're saying people should be killed you know when we come to god as soon as he has given us another chance to repent i believe that homosexuals they can come to their senses and begin to repent god can gear them from heaven can i ask you something can i ask you something because we we need to be very brief um if you're agreeing with everything that past anderson has said and you do not agree with what he's saying with regards to stoning of homosexuals how then do you do you um justify that because he's saying that the reason why he's saying that about homosexuals is because the bible says that that is why i'm saying with what he is saying i don't agree with the point that people should be true because everyone goes wait wait wait if he says that's what the bible says how can you not agree with that if you agree with everything else that he says what listen to what i'm saying in old god that was he's quoting from the big of the book of lakita but we are coming to a there's a there's a room for repentance nobody is being killed the only person who can kill somebody nobody has been given the authority to be to kill god came down because he jesus came down because every buddha was a sinner but my point is that when we repent god has given us a second chance to repent from every whether for me caters when adult truck almost homosexuals that is why he's saying whoever is doing this thing this thing homosexual for negated will not inherit the kingdom of god but he is giving us another chance to repent and when you repent and leave according to his word which says we should do this and that we then can inherit the kingdom of god thank you so much no one is allowed to kill anyone thank you gabs fm you're live hello uh yes i wanted to just uh ask a pastor understand one question um do you believe that uh everybody has the right uh to to to i mean do you does he believe that he was given the right to be a child of god or does he believe that he believes that everybody has the right to be a child of god okay gabs up from your live what are you reading that the human minimum we're andrew jabor in um i'd like to address uh that guy please go ahead we don't have time for that uh morning uh just say what you want to say sir okay i'd like to i'd like to find out from him what he thinks should happen to people with aids what should happen to two children born out of wedlock that is not their fault why why aids in particular because he has he has acted about what should happen to people with aids i'd like to know his thoughts on what should happen with people with aids and if he's saying he's saying that he's not violent what did he do to an old man at his church on sunday what did him and his people do to an old man at his church on sunday no you tell us we don't know what the man handled the man handled an old an old man pushed him out of the church and physically handled him why what happened he he he is saying he doesn't believe no no what had happened you are giving us parts of his story what happened okay did he handle the man the man or not what happened i don't what what what led to that happening he thought that the old man was a homosexual so they started pushing him and handling and pushing him out of the church oh the man was not a homosexual okay and they thought he was and they started man handling and pushing him out of they just looked at him and they they they they vetted him as homosexual no okay i think it was because of the utterances of what he was trying to say thank you so much say gives a family of the last caller hello you're the last caller be brief please thank you hello okay gives a the last color right thank you sir you want to respond to the church incident yeah absolutely uh when we had the church service on sunday morning there were four foreigners who came to the church none of them were batswana they were all foreigners who came to the church there were about six of them holding up signs protesting us and there was an old man who told me that he was a homosexual right and i told him that he must leave and after asking him to leave two times politely i took him and i dragged him out and bouncers do it in bars every day because it's our private property you're not a bar yes but but we have the right to not allow homosexuals into the church the bible says aren't you there to to help them you cannot help the homosexual in romans chapter one how can you not help them because in romans chapter one it says god gave them up god gave them over god gave them up it's too late for them okay so the all the homosexuals through there's nothing there's nothing we can do for them it's too late for them we have to re-educate ourselves here we have to re-educate the reason that just christ that for us is for us to repent and to have internal life so whoever is a sinner is a sinner is purified by jesus christ either a gay either a lesbian whatever sinner that he's doing god is purifying us through jesus christ and through the blood of jesus christ what do you say to that past understand i say that in the new testament of the bible romans chapter one it says that these people have been given up by god given over by god and in verse 32 it says that homosexuals are worthy of death romans 1 32 new testament so who else has been given up by god the bible teaches it only mentions the fact that people who have rejected the lord over and over again right have been given over by god and that because of that pain have you rejected the the lord have you rejected the lord no no he's a liar okay why because the bible says that the that the reason why a man would lust with a man burn and lust toward a man is because he's been rejected by god no normal man lusts after another you haven't rejected god because these that's who you want that's what you know you know you don't know anything else yep that's how i was born that's how always felt as a kid growing up and everything and like him we're also raised in a christian family i went to a catholic kindergarten catholic junior school catholic high school so i honestly don't understand who appointed pastor anderson the messiah to judge to point out who is right and who is wrong and i thought for me i thought church was a place of god church was a haven where people can come and ask for souls pastor yes how do you then um get rid of somebody who maybe maybe there to say to you please save me he's not there for that he was there to know i'm asking i'm asking yeah what if he's there and he needs to be safe he may be there to start trouble but he may be needing a lot of save yeah if anybody needs to be saved i would love to get them saved but the bible says that if they're a homosexual they've already been given up they've already been given over it's too late reverend but we have to wrap this up with with the position that pastor anderson is taking and i must apologize because i haven't read a lot of the SMS that have come through with the position that pastor anderson is is taking you still believe that he is lost very lost very lost but there are some people who are saying and and i think this this this issue of homosexuality is the one that everybody is centering on and they are saying which bible are you reading the only thing is that people that they quote the bible out of context they just take one chart one verse and they quote it and they don't even know the origin of the text or the origin of the bible why was that happening to that to the people we have to re-educate this nation and i always tell the pastor that it is our task as the minister's word and sacrament that we have to re-educate our own people so that not every every jacob comes like this this gentleman next to me here comes they follow him because he can quote and he can say whatever you want to say and he thinks they think he's right we have to know the bible and understand it why was it to whom was he addressing what's what was he addressed what situation was he facing what part wrote this to the to the romeans right yeah um um kane would what would you say to pastor anderson in conclusion for me that i'm my brother's guys want a pastor don't let's use the word past ourselves i have to give him respect because he identifies himself he might not despite the fact that he doesn't just respect me that's fine hannah you spew so much hate and you're saying that people cannot come to church even though they need to be saved basically like i was saying here's the problem here's the problem okay i have nine children at my church how can i let homosexuals into my church when i know that they're child molesters it's too dangerous why do you say that child molesters because if you study the history of homosexuality even back to ancient talking about history okay why would you say why would you say kane for instance is a child molester because every single story in the bible that involves homosexuals they are raping someone they are violating someone okay they are not children oh yes children absolutely and look at the statistics of how many little boys are molested by grown men let's talk about kate for instance kate have you had molested a little boy no he's a liar okay he's a liar you know that he has sex with strangers no that's what homosexuals do but that's not the point you i think you're sketching the issue i'm asking have you had sex with children he says no and you're saying he's lying there's no skirting the issue he's lying if i have to choose between believing what the bible says about homosexuals about the bible we are talking about you i'm talking about maybe but at this point in time we are talking about you accusing him of having slept with small boys i am accusing him of being a pedophile if he's not done it yet he will do it later because the history shows us that the news reports tell us that the bible demonstrates homosexuals not to be reproducers would you hug your recruiters no i don't want to touch him he's you know he's dirty you don't want to touch him i know where he's i know where he's been right where he's been digging around and it's disgusting okay it's unsanitary this is so much for the pasta it's unsanitary we're gonna have to leave it there thank you so much guys for coming through pasta anderson is uh founder and pasta at the faithful word baptist church in the united states reverend tabo mampati second vice president of the botwana council of churches and pasta at the evangelical Lutheran church in botwana kane youngman is from lehabibo and his advocacy officer there pastor anderson i i i i pray to the almighty that before you go if uh immigration officials are not going to be whisking you out of the country anytime soon or we are understanding that even intelligence officials now intelligence agents may be around if you are not being whisked out of the country anytime soon i hope you before you leave you'll come and speak to us again thank you i'd be glad to thank you so much gentlemen