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men chapter 12 of 2nd Corinthians 2nd Corinthians is a difficult book and 2nd Corinthians chapter 12 is in particular a difficult chapter but there have been a lot of great things that we've learned so far in this study and I think there are gonna be some great things to learn tonight but we start out with this passage at the very beginning that is a little bit hard to understand I've heard this passage referred to in sermons my whole life I grew up in an independent Baptist I've heard a lot of sermons that touched on this and it's something that's hard to say for sure exactly what's meant here but let's go through it and I'll expound it to you to the best of my ability it says in verse 1 it is not expedient for me doubtless to glory referring to the contents of chapter 11 but then he says I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord so he's going to get on a new subject about visions and revelations of the Lord he's gonna tie that back to what he was talking about in chapter 11 says in verse 2 I knew a man in Christ above 14 years ago whether in the body I cannot tell or whether out of the body I cannot tell God know it such a one caught up to the third heaven and I knew such a man whether in the body or out of the body I cannot tell God know it how that he was caught up in paradise and unspeakable words which it is not lawful for a man to utter of such a one will I glory yet of myself I will not glory but in my infirmities now when you see those two parentheses that say whether in the body I cannot tell or whether out of the body I cannot tell God know it in both cases they're both pointing us to the fact that he knew a man okay so he's not saying he doesn't know whether the guy was caught up to heaven bodily or in spirit it seems to be that he's saying I knew a man of Christ about 14 years ago and I don't know if I knew this guy or came to know this guy or met this guy or interacted with this guy in the body or out of the body God know it because it says again in verse 3 I knew such a man whether in the body you're out of the body I cannot tell God knows what does he mean by that he's saying he doesn't know whether this actually happened or whether it was just a vision that he had or some kind of a spiritual revelation that he had because of course even John the Apostle John he was shown a lot of things in the book of Revelation but he was actually in spirit he didn't literally physically go to those places but it was all in spirit and and so when he says here I knew a man whether in the body or out of the bike he doesn't know whether this was some kind of a spiritual experience where a spirit was caught up and he saw these things or whether he actually literally had this conversation okay which that's a little bit hard for us to understand right away because we haven't had those type of revelations okay now there's a lot of debate about this path whether the Apostle Paul is talking about someone else or whether he's talking about himself typically when I've heard this preached throughout my life preachers would say that he's actually referring to himself that he's the man that was caught up to the third heaven he was caught up into paradise and and heard these amazing things and saw amazing things and what I've heard people say is that well it was actually him but he's just being humble here by referring to himself in the third person as someone else okay that doesn't make any sense to me because that doesn't fit the context he's not being humble in this context because were you here for chapter 11 I mean in chapters 10 11 12 and 13 he is ripping the Corinthians hard okay it's very negative very caustic and I mean in chat by chapter 13 he's saying you need to examine yourselves whether you're even saved and and you might even be reprobates okay so he's preaching really hard so this wouldn't really be a time for him to just be humble by acting like oh it was somebody else but it was really me and he's just especially because if you look at verse 5 he says of such and one will I glory yet of myself I will not glory so if he's sitting there say well I'm not gonna glory myself I'm gonna glory of such a one as that guy that was caught up the guy that I knew 14 years ago whether it was in the body or out of the body I cannot tell God know it the only way that this could possibly referring be referring to Paul himself being the one who was caught up is if he's being very sarcastic in verse number five and being just and that's not my interpretation I want to tell you right now I'm gonna take this at face value I believe it was another person I'm just gonna take what say he knew a man and this guy was caught up to heaven and this guy told him these things and gave him these revelations from what he saw and heard when he was there so I'm gonna take it as face value that is the third person but if it were the Apostle Paul then he would he would have to be very sarcastic in verse five to say well if such a one why glory yet of myself I will not glory now there is a lot of sarcasm in this passage if you remember in chapter 11 he's very negative he's being very angry with the Corinthians and he uses sarcasm in fact in this chapter he uses some serious sarcasm jump down to verse 13 for what is it wherein you were inferior to other churches except it be that I myself was not burdensome to you forgive me this wrong now that is sarcasm right oh please forgive me for not burdening you you he's not actually saying oh would you please forgive me that I didn't burden you that I wasn't a pain in the neck forgive me for doing that he's you be sarcastic right look at verse 15 will see some more sarcasm and I will very gladly spend it be spent for you though the more abundantly I love you the less I be loved sees mad right he's rebuking him hard look what he says in verse 16 but be it so I did not burden you nevertheless being crafty I caught you with guile he's saying boy I was so tricky wasn't I I was so crafty I caught you with guile did I make a gain of you by them whom I sent unto you I desire Titus and with him I sent a brother did Titus make a gain of you walked we not in the same spirit walked me not in the same step so he's being sarcastic oh yeah right I was being really crafty I was really deceptive right because I ripped you off right no actually I did it I was not a burden to you I did not make a gain of you Titus not making any of you so you have to get the context of this passage he's rebuking them hard he's angry with them it's a very stern correction all the way from chapter 10 11 12 13 that's why it doesn't make sense that he's just throwing in throwing out this anecdote and being humble about it or you know the interpretation I've heard it doesn't really fit the passage I I'm just gonna take it at face value that he's just talking about a third person but if you really want to believe that this is the Apostle Paul that's caught up you'd have to believe he's just being sarcastic when he says well all glory in that guy but I wouldn't glory myself because I'm nobody I'm nothing you know I mean a guy who had that experience would really be somebody you know so it'd be like more sarcasm rebuking them but again I think that that's a possibility but I I don't think that that's correct so anyway now that we got the hardest part out of the way now let's do some of the easy stuff in the chapter okay so he says here that this man the Bible says in verse 2 was caught up to the third heaven now what does that mean the third heaven well because there are three things in the Bible that are called heaven first of all the sky is called heaven just the atmosphere of the clouds and the Bible talks about the birds flying in the heaven the birds flying in the open firmament of heaven so we have just the sky being called heaven but then also what we know is outer space is also called heaven in the Bible because the Bible talks about the Sun Moon and stars being in the firmament of heaven so basically you have the sky being called heaven and then you have what we know in our modern vernacular is outer space being called heaven and then we have the place where God lives being called heaven that would be the third heaven right it'd be beyond those other two levels of quote-unquote heaven now you say well I don't like that term outer space it's unbiblical oh really because the Bible says in Job that God stretches out that the heavens over the empty place and he hangs the earth on nothing right so the Bible mentions the empty place guess what that means space something that's empty is space so space is a biblical term because it's called the empty place and it says that the earth is hanging on nothing right because we know it's it's not literally set up on something or hanging on something it's just floating in space what we know to be true so anyway it says that he was caught up to the third heaven and then it says in verse 4 how he was caught up into paradise so this shows us that when the Bible refers to paradise it's referring to the third heaven right because these two are being used interchangeably he's caught up to paradise he's got up into the third heaven now there's a doctrine out there that teaches that paradise is like an Old Testament holding tank for the Saints before Christ died because they couldn't go to heaven yet because Jesus hadn't died on the cross yet so they had to go to this holding tank called paradise there's in the center of the earth is right next to hell it was like hell and paradise both in the center who's heard of that doctrine before okay well here's the problem with that the word paradise is only used three times in the Bible none of them is in the Old Testament so if this is supposedly the Old Testament location that's kind of funny that it's never mentioned in the Old Testament and then it's kind of funny that it's only mentioned three times in the New Testament and these are the three mentions in the New Testament first of all Jesus said to the thief on the cross today shalt thou be with me in paradise okay then we have this mention where it says that he was caught up not down he was caught up into the third heaven up into paradise saying that paradise is where up or down saying that it's up and then the Bible says in Revelation chapter 2 to him to overcome it will I give to eat of the tree of life which is in the midst of the paradise of God those are the only three times this is mentioned so how can you take those three mentions and then derive this doctrine oh yeah paradise is down really cuz it's only three mentions and one of them says it's up the other two don't talk about where it is they just talk about a saved guy is gonna go there and then they talk about the fact that there's the tree of life they're located in that place and of course we know that heaven is a place with with trees and water and and fountains and animals and you know things like that so we shouldn't really surprise us that the tree of life is in the midst of the paradise of God because paradise is just another word for heaven right in the way it's being used in the New Testament so the Bible says and by the way people in the Old Testament when they died if they were saved they went to heaven they didn't go to the hole they went straight to heaven they went all the way to heaven and people say well no they couldn't go there cuz Jesus and I Jesus is the lamb slain from the foundation of the world it's not like they had to wait in a holding tank to make sure Jesus is really gonna go through with it okay Jesus Christ sacrifice on the cross although it happened 2,000 years ago was as good as done from the foundation of the world because God already promised eternal life from the foundation of the world and God is so trustworthy of keeping his promises if he says he's gonna do it he's gonna do it and the fact that God dwells outside of time from his perspective everything has already happened it's all done he steps back and just sees the whole picture so even in the Old Testament Jesus Christ from God's perspective had already died on the cross because he's the lamb slain from the foundation of the world as God's outside of time so to say well they had to go to the holding tank as Jesus hadn't died yet well then how did Enoch go straight to heaven I mean Enoch walked with God and he was not for God took him so if nobody can go how did he not go why did why did the chariot come down and pick up Elijah and take Elijah straight up to heaven if nobody can go so the Bible talks about in Ecclesiastes the spirit of the beast going downward into the earth and it talks about the spirit of man that goes upward and the Bible says that the spirit will return to God that gave it so when a man dies in the Old Testament be saved his spirit returns to the Lord his spirit goes upward there's plenty of evidence that people went to heaven in the Old Testament and that they they were not in a place of death right you know the Bible says Abraham rejoiced to see my day and was glad right so Abraham was able to observe Jesus Christ as ministry who's seeing these things from heaven and rejoicing in Christ ministry and so forth he wasn't deep in the earth in a holding tank okay the only thing deep in the earth is hell it's all it's all fire and brimstone etc and you say well you know what about that story of the rich man and Lazarus oh okay well read the story there's a great gulf fixed there was a huge gap between hell and heaven now a lot of people just they picture this as a physical literal just normal everyday thing like people in hell are just hanging out with people in paradise like like all day you're just listening to people screaming for a drink of water all day well that would get old pretty fast okay it's a supernatural story the people that are in hell are actually in darkness they don't they don't just look at Abraham all day and just look at Lazarus all day and they're not just constantly and it's just like good night how many times I can have the same conversation where Abraham just has to give them all the same speech or something and if there's this great goal between them how can they even talk how can they even be heard above all the screaming and wailing and everything like that right so you can't just take this as oh yeah there's a great goal of it's just it's just like here's hell here's paradise there's a goal it's just right there folks the story is talking about something that took place miraculously where God miraculously allowed this interaction to take place just as an illustration he's just showing us what hell's like so he allows this one-time conversation to take place just so that we can understand okay this is what hell's like people are burning they want water there's fire they can't go to heaven people from heaven can't go to them so guess where the great Gulf is you're in the great Gulf right now the Gulf between heaven and hell okay so God allowed this conversation to take place across the Gulf from heaven to hell but this isn't just a normal thing like people in paradise are just down in the earth just hanging out watching people burn in hell or something that's not biblical so you don't want to just take the story of Luke chapter 16 and just turn the rest of the Bible on its head the rest of Bible talking about save people going to heaven unsaved people burning in hell darkness gnashing of teeth center of the earth heart of the earth down into hell up to heaven and get this doctrine of oh well heavens actually you know down there in the Old Testament wrong it's you know it doesn't make any sense so and then other people will object by saying well why did Jesus tell the guy today shalt thou be with me in paradise when he's on the cross you know if Jesus is going to hell for three days and three nights then why would he say today shall thou be with me in paradise well here's the thing about that when he tells that to the thief he's telling the thief that the thief's going to a good place obviously that was supposed to be comforting when he said hey we're both going down to a fiery place today buddy no he said today you'll be with me in paradise you'll be with me in paradise right so that was a good place that he's gonna go now did Jesus go to a good place for three days and three nights no because Jesus when he descended into the lower lower part of the earth he said that he wants to get out of there his hope was that his soul would not be left in hell neither his flesh secret Jesus went to hell for three days and three nights and his hope was that he's not going to be left there he knew that the Lord is faithful that he's gonna get out of there he's gonna be resurrected and so that was the hope he's not hanging out in paradise it's not like Jesus died on the cross and then went hung out in paradise for three days no he's in hell for three days and he wants to get out of there and he's looking forward to getting out of there that's what the Bible actually says okay now today shalt thou be with me in paradise what's he talking about well here's what we have to understand is that again God dwells outside of time now the Bible when it talks about people burning in hell in Revelation 14 it says that they will be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the lamb and that's even referring to the lake of fire the final location of hell he says they'll be tormented in the presence of the lamb now are we expected to believe that the lamb Jesus Christ because the lamb is not referring to God the Father or the Holy Spirit I mean the lamb is Jesus are we supposed to believe that Jesus just just he just only hangs out at that lake of fire and that's the only place that he is because he's just got to be there to just kind of supervise everybody who's burning in the lake of fire no obviously if the Bible tells us that people are going to be tormented in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the lamb that tells me that Jesus Christ can both be there at the lake of fire where they could be tormented in his presence and he can also be seated at the right hand of the Father at the same time okay because of the fact that he's God he transcends things like time etc not only that but I believe that when Jesus Christ went to hell for three days and three nights I believe that he suffered an eternity of hell in three days of three nights because he transcends time and my authority for that if you would flip back to Jonah chapter number two Jesus Christ said as Jonah was three days and three nights in the whale's belly so shall the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth so Jesus compares himself to Jonah and talks about how Jonah's in the whale and how he's gonna be in the heart of the earth what's the heart of the earth the heart is the core the heart is the center of something okay so Jesus is saying he's gonna be at the center of the earth the heart of the earth for three days and three nights well look what the Bible says in Jonah chapter 2 verse 1 then Jonah prayed unto the Lord is God out of the fish's belly and said I cried by reason of mind affliction unto the Lord and he heard me out of the belly of hell cried I and thou heardest my voice now let me ask this was Jonah literally in hell no Jonah was where he's in the belly of the whale but yet he says out of the belly of hell cried I why because he's actually prophesying about Jesus so he's talking about his own situation but then he's actually prophesying about Jesus remember when the Ethiopian eunuch is talking to Philip and he's reading Isaiah and he asked Philip is this prophet is he talking about himself or is he talking about another man okay why because sometimes the prophets when they're talking about themselves are actually prophesying about Christ like when David says my god my god why is thou forsaken me when he says they pierced my hands and my feet did that really happen to David did David get his hands and feet pierced no Jesus is gonna get his hands and feet pierced so he says they pierced my hands and my feet in Psalm 22 about Jesus in Psalm 16 when David says thou wilt not leave my soul in hell neither wilt thou suffer that holy one to see corruption that's interpreted in Acts chapter 2 as hey David saw corruption David was not talking about himself there the acts 231 says this spake he of the resurrection of Christ that his soul was not left in hell neither did his flesh see corruption so Isaiah David Jonah when they're preaching or prophesying often they're not talking about themselves they're actually talking about Jesus okay well here in Jonah chapter 2 Jonah is talking about his own situation but he's actually prophesying about Jesus and then Jesus is going to point back to this and say hey this is a picture this is a sign of the Prophet Jonah that as Jonah was three days and three nights in the whale's belly so shall the Son of Man be three days and three nights are there so he said I cried by reason of mine affliction unto Lord verse 2 and he heard me out of the belly of hell cried I and thou heardest my voice for thou has cast me into the deep now it was Jonah thrown into the deep yeah he was thrown into the deep water and he got swallowed by a whale in the midst of the seas is that Jonah yeah he's in the sea the floods compass me about that's Jonah all thy billows and thy waves passed over me that's Jonah then I said I'm cast out of thy sight yet I will look again toward thy holy temple the waters compass me about even to the soul right this all applies to Jonah the depths closed me roundabout the weeds were wrapped about my head so you can picture Jonah he's swallowed by the whale the whales been eating a bunch of seaweed he's got a bunch of season the stomach of the whale wrapped up in a bunch of seaweed and you say well I just don't think it's humanly possible for a man to live in the belly of a whale but the Bible says that God prepared a great whale to swallow Jonah so God actually prepared a special whale to be able to swallow Jonah where he could exist in the whale's belly for three days even though obviously it was uncomfortable and miserable it was a hellish experience picturing hell it pictured hell priest by burning up and stomach acid in there but it was you know it was bad I'm sure it was very miserable that's why when he got out of the whale's belly man he was ready to straighten up and fly right he's like what do you want to do you know I mean he was he couldn't get there fast enough to Nineveh okay but look what it says the weeds were wrapped about my head that's literal but look at verse six I went down to the bottoms of the mountains Jonah didn't do that the earth with her bars was about me forever about me means around me okay around and about are synonymous so he's saying look the earth with her bars was around me or about me forever now did Jonah go anywhere forever he's only there for three days did he go down to the bottoms of the mountains no he went in deep water but he didn't go to the bottoms of the mountains was the earth surrounding him where the earth and and her bars around him or about him forever no but this is going back to when he said out of the belly of hell cried I prophesying about Jesus Jesus went to hell for three days and three nights the Bible tells in Ephesians 4 that Jesus descended into the lower parts of the earth and so Jesus went down to the bottoms of the mountains you know obviously not his body but his soul was in hell for three days and three nights he went down to the bottoms of mountains and the earth with her bars was around him or about him forever I believe what that's indicating is that he suffered a forever of hell in a finite period of time because he's God so he can transcend the normal rules of time and space that we would typically be familiar with just like where Jesus after he is risen from the dead they have all the doors shut but yeah he just enters the room without anybody opening the door okay obviously he's transcending space and time there so anyway we see here that the earth with her bars was about me forever yet as thou brought up my life from corruption O Lord my God and on and on it goes so if you would flip over to Ephesians chapter 4 Ephesians 4 I got to cover a few more things in 2nd Corinthians 12 so I don't want to spend the whole night on this but I kind of opened this can of worms so I have to see it through to its completion here so Ephesians chapter 4 says in verse 8 wherefore he saith when he ascended up on high he led captivity captive and gave gifts unto men now that he ascended what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth so Jesus descended first into the lower parts of the earth that's when he went down to hell for three days three nights and then later he us ends to be seated at the right hand of the Father now this phrase captivity captive is an abused phrase people who believe in this paradise Abraham's bosom Old Testament holding tank doctrine what they'll say is that well when he led captivity captive that's when he took all the saved people that were in the holding tank and moved them all to heaven now here's the thing about that if that really happened if millions and millions of saved people were in a holding tank in the earth and then Christ is just gonna do this mass transplant of just moving millions of millions of people to heaven don't you think the Bible would talk about that somewhere or explain that I mean that that seems like a big event I remember I was listening to a preacher one time preaching and he started kind of teaching that doctrine about how they moved them all and he's like man we don't talk enough about that we don't preach enough about that it's like because you want me scripture where do you what chapter do you turn to describe that magnificent event where millions and millions and millions of souls are released from paradise it's like well I don't know it's paradise can we stay you know but it's like oh we got you know they're all their captives they're in prison it's like well if you're gonna be in prison might as well be paradise amen paradise isn't prison prison isn't paradise these don't make any sense folks but they say oh you know they let out the he let out the million souls and and millions and millions of people all the Old Testament saved got relocated heaven wouldn't the Bible described I mean that's a big event like think about how big the rapture is but there's a whole bunch of scripture that we could point to on on Christ coming the clouds the trumpet sounding we go to Matthew 24 we go to mark 13 we go to Luke 21 we could go to Revelation chapter 7 we could go to Revelation 14 we could talk about it in 1st Corinthians chapter 15 you know we could point to a bunch of verses that describe that type of event here's what they've got well he led captivity captive now first of all this also shows a lack of understanding about what the term captivity captive means because they'll say will that mean that's when he did that but if we actually compare scripture with scripture the Bible uses this term led captivity captive back in the book of Judges chapter 5 it says arise Oh Barak and lead thy captivity captive okay what was going on that story where's the thing Barak and the children of Israel were in bondage to a foreign power okay to Canaanite heathens and what happened was Barak turned the tables on them and those who had kept him captive he made them his captives so here Barak is under their authority and he turns it around and he leads captivity captive does everybody understand what I'm saying he was oppressed by the enemy and then he turned around and became the one who had them on the run he had Sisera and Jabin on the run does everybody understand okay so what does it mean when the Bible says that Christ led captivity captive it says in verse 8 of chapter 4 in Ephesians wherefore he says when he ascended up on high he led captivity captive and then it says in verse 9 now that he ascended what is it but that he also descended first so here's what it means when it says Jesus led captivity captive Jesus Christ was captive in hell for three days and three nights Jesus Christ is in a place that's known as a prison it's known as a bad place he's his resting and hope is that he's not gonna be left there so Jesus Christ is in hell and then what does he do he leads captivity captive he resurrects from hell but not only that this is what he said I have the keys of hell and of death so that's how he turned around the place that held him captive now he is the master of that place he has the keys he said I'm he that liveth and was dead and behold I'm alive forevermore amen and have the keys of hell and of death now here's the thing about that they say well you know Jesus was just an Abraham's bosom for three days and three nights that's not called being dead so yeah it is no it isn't because Jesus said I'm the God of Abraham and the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob God is not the God of the dead but of the living so when Jesus was walking on this earth was Abraham dead the Bible says no that's why Jesus said Abraham rejoiced to see my day and was glad why because Abraham was alive Isaac was alive Jacob was alive he said God's not the God of the dead but of the living Abraham Isaac and Jacob are alive so let me ask you this if Jesus was an Abraham bosom for three days and three nights was he dead or alive he'd be alive then if he's with Abraham Abraham's alive folks that's wrong Jesus was dead for three days and three nights and guess where dead people go dead people go to hell hell is called death hell is the place of the dead it is the place of death the people that are in hell right now are called dead that's why the Bible says that death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them so people that are in heaven are they dead they're alive people that are in hell are dead so where was Jesus for three days and three nights in the place where people are alive or the place where people are dead he was dead for three days and three nights and then he rose again from the dead okay not only that go to Romans 10 Romans chapter 10 so a lot of people say well Jesus didn't go to hell for three days and three nights well then what do you do with acts 231 acts 231 says this bakey of the resurrection of Christ that his soul was not left in hell so what's the resurrection it's that his soul was not left in hell his soul came out of hell well but hell doesn't really mean hell there okay well are there any other verses that you want to just change or any other words that you want to just redefine while we're at it because every time the word hell is used in the Bible it's a bad place it's a place where people don't want to go you say well you know it's Hades well you know not in my King James Bible but I guess you're probably a lot smarter than the 54 King James translators you're probably a lot smarter than the translators of all the other Bible versions throughout history that have said hell here right he said oh it's Hades okay well guess what Hades is a bad place too okay because guess what if you look up every time the word Hades is used in the Greek guess what it's a bad place it's hell right okay let's say we just wanted to call it Hades okay in Hades he lift up his eyes being in torments you got a guy in flames begging for a drop of water in Hades okay so what's the difference folks but what they do is they want to come at you with a foreign language so that they can just trick you it's to distract you oh well the Greek says this it's a distraction tactic it's like a magician you know get you to look over here and then he pulls the card out from his sleeve or whatever so they basically come at you and say well you know he didn't go to hell he went to Hades see if we actually looked up all the verses about hell slash Hades guess what you're gonna find out it's bad none of them are good there's no good Hades or good hell cold hell it isn't there folks it's a hot place okay and by the way in Greek mythology they believe that everybody went to Hades and it was a bad place there's a negative place that nobody wanted to go but they they said we're all going there well guess what they were right they were all going there because guess what if you don't believe on if you don't believe on Jehovah God and you're believing in Zeus and everybody else you are going to go to Hades you are going straight to hell and they said oh it's a dark underworld place it's a bad place it's not it's better to be alive being alive is better than being down in Hades because it's dark and miserable down there or whatever and they had obviously weird beliefs about what's down there but none of it wasn't a good place and you know what they were right everybody was going there amongst them amongst them that believed in that stuff all their buddies were going to Hades right so that's why Jesus and the Apostles they use that word to describe hell because it's a dark place of punishment under the earth and here's the thing our English word hell comes from Scandinavian folklore about a dark underworld look pagans all over the world have always believed in like this dark underworld fiery place cuz it's real cuz it's there okay you say well you know they're just a bunch of pagans that made up a bunch of crazy stuff well you know what yeah they made up a bunch of gods and goddesses except guess what those are real too they're called demons and all the Hindu gods those are real too they're called demons they're called devils folks hey look the idols nothing but God says when they worship an idol they're worshiping a demon that's what the Bible says so therefore you know you can't wiggle out of this my friend when the Bible says that his soul was not left in hell okay that's what it's saying folks is that his soul was not left in hell unless you just want to just make the whole Bible just up for grabs and go join the Bible of the Month Club and you can get the NIV and the ESV and the New American Standard hey we're King James only folks what the Bible says in the King James Bible is what we believe the truth to be okay and don't let people try to spin your head with a foreign language but look at Romans chapter 10 and the Bible says in verse 6 but the righteousness which is a faith speak of on this why say not in thine heart who shall ascend into heaven that is to bring Christ down from above or who shall descend into the deep that is to bring up Christ again from the dead so when Christ was dead where was he he was in the deep he was in the abyss right he was in the bottomless pit is where he was he was in hell for three days and three nights and this term the deep you know you'll find this elsewhere in Scripture it's failing me right now maybe somebody out there knows what I'm talking about I want to say it's in the book of Luke but in one of the Gospels where the the the one that is demon possessed and he's speaking to them and they're saying that they don't want to go to the deep somebody got an electronic gadget they can find that verse for me isn't there a verse like that where you'd say they say hey don't we don't want to go to the deep what is it no that's that's something different that's not what I'm talking about don't just start in Genesis and read me all the deep verses let's narrow that search okay what is it Luke 831 let me sorry this isn't in my notes because I don't have any notes but anyway Luke Luke excuse me Luke chapter 831 says or let's start in verse 30 and Jesus asked him saying what is thy name and he said Legion because many devils were entered into him and they besought him that he would not command them to go out into the deep they're like we don't want to go to the deep that's where Christ was when he was dead for three is three nights the deep okay the lower parts of the earth the deep the abyss the pit hell the Bible is consistent on this point I don't care if it's out of fashion this is what the Bible teaches okay and elsewhere the demons say to him torment us not before the time and then in this parallel passage they say don't send us out into the deep okay so anyway I spent way too much time on that but it's it's an important point it's good to cover go to 2nd Corinthians chapter 12 now some people though when they learn this doctrine which if you're gonna if you're gonna believe the Bible and take it for what it actually says in the King James Bible you would have to say Jesus went to hell for three days three nights because that's where it says he went in acts 231 unless you're gonna try to go back to the Greek and even if you go back to the Greek you know you're still just gonna come right back around and say okay you know he's in hell okay because it's just it doesn't matter what like we can do it in Spanish if you want you know do it wherever the language but the point is that some people when they learn this they'll go overboard and say like if you don't believe this you're not saved you have to believe in this you know to be saved you have to believe Jesus was in hell for three days and three nights to be saved that isn't true because what we have to believe in to be saved is we have to believe in the death burial and resurrection of Christ let me ask you this was his body buried or was it his soul that was buried it's the body that was buried so when the Bible says the death burial and resurrection that's what we have to believe to be saved is that Jesus Christ died and that he was buried and that he rose again so if somebody believes that his soul was was in hell as the Bible teaches correctly or if they have a wrong belief that his soul was you know packing everybody up for the big trip from paradise to heaven okay they're still saved if they believe either of those things as long as they believe in the bodily resurrection of Christ now the Jehovah's Witnesses are not saved because they do not believe in the bodily resurrection that's the key component folks the bodily resurrection of Christ the Jehovah's Witnesses say well this is a spiritual resurrection well that's not a resurrection they say well his soul left his body yeah that's called dying right giving up the ghost okay no it's the body without the spirits dead what the resurrection is is that Jesus Christ came out of the grave and showed them the holes in his hands and the holes in his and the hole in his side that's the resurrection we need to believe in to be saved so if people are mixed up on this doctrine if people you know have gotten this Abraham's bosom thing or and they don't realize that Abraham's bosom is a body part not a place okay and that at his bosom means he's got his arm around him it doesn't mean he's like inside of his chest cavity or something or like and here's the thing if they're all going inside of his chest cavity where did he go where whose cavity is he inside of so you know people are just being crazy when the Bible says that you know Lazarus is is there and Abraham or Abraham is there and Lazarus in his bosom this simply means here come here Solomon this is what means if Solomon is in my bosom this is him in my bosom all right you see that this is my bosom all right you know this is my chest right Illuminati confirmed right here folks okay but anyway you know when the Bible talks about pluck your hand out of your bosom okay it's talking about the chest area this is your bosom everybody understand that okay so if I have somebody in my bosom that's what it means right there I've got my arm around them and that's what when John leaned on Jesus bosom he's leaning on his chest right he's leaned up against him at the Last Supper he's got his arm around him or he's leaned up against him asking him who the betrayer or who the traitor was okay so that's what it means to be in Abraham's bosom it just means basically that he was just standing next to Abraham and Abraham's got his arm around him it's not hard to understand but they've created a place called Abraham's bosom that's not a place people to me like maybe this is stupid but when I first heard this place Abraham's bosom it to me it sounded like a weird name for like a bar or something you know like bars have these really weird names that don't make sense I just picture like a neon flashing light Abraham's bosom it's like you know the where people go to hang out or something folks that doesn't make any sense that's not that's not what you name a place and when things don't make sense it's usually because they're not true that's why they don't make any sense all right so anyway all right that was this is gonna be a long night no I'm just kidding I'm just I'm just gonna point out a couple other things in the chapter and here's the thing you know chapter 12 is really a lot more of the same as what we had in chapter 11 so the fact that I'm not going verse by verse through the whole chapter he's pretty much just continuing the face ripping from chapter 11 he rips on him he's angry he's using some sarcasm he's telling him off so let's hit some more highlights here so this guy was caught up to the third heaven he was caught up not down up to paradise and we should base what we believe on what the Bible says not on what it doesn't say we got three verses mentioning paradise they're all in the New Testament and they say it's up but then you're gonna tell me no paradise is the Old Testament place and it's down you didn't get that from reading the Bible because there's only three verses and none of them teach that all right so that was all that was just for the first four verses so he says in verse five of such a one while I glory yet of myself I will not glory but in my infirmities for though I would desire to glory I shall not be a fool for I will say the truth but now I forbear list any man should think of me above that which he see of me to be or that he heareth of me what's he saying here he's saying look I would desire to glory you know there's a part of us as human beings human nature that wants to boast or to glory or to brag but he's saying I would desire to glory but I shall not be a fool and if you remember last week we talked about when you brag and boast and glorify yourself you sound like an idiot right when you're bragging and and prideful you sound stupid and he's saying I don't want to be a fool by bragging and glorying and he says in verse seven lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations like for example this revelation where this guy who was caught up to heaven told him about what he saw up there he says there was given to me a thorn in the flesh the messenger of Satan to buffet me lest I should be exalted above measure for this thing I besought the Lord thrice that it might depart from me and he said to me my grace is sufficient for thee for my strength is made perfect and weakness most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities that the power of Christ may rest upon me therefore I take pleasure in infirmities now what's he saying here he's saying that because he had such an abundance of revelations and remember we're talking about the man who pen down 14 books of the New Testament half the books of the New Testament are written by the Apostle Paul right everything from Romans to the epistle of Paul the apostles of the Hebrews as it says in the 1611 replica back there everything from Romans to Hebrews is written by the Apostle Paul that's an abundance of revelations now Paul said that because of that abundance of revelations there could be a tendency for people to put him on too high of a pedestal to exalt him too much and it could go to his head right I mean when you're writing 14 books of the Bible that could go to your head you when you're used more by God than any other apostle than any other preacher you know arguably in the history of Christianity then that could go to your head right so because of that God gave him a thorn in the flesh so that he wouldn't be exalted above measure something bad to keep him humble and three times he asked God to remove this thorn in the flesh and God would not remove it and he says you know I'd rather have a thorn in the flesh I'd rather be weak and have this infirmity and have the power of Christ rest upon me I'd rather have the revelations and the power of God and the power of Christ and put up with this thorn in my flesh it's just the price that you pay for serving God is what he's saying here now this is how our lives are going to be as well God doesn't want us to be prideful or puffed up and so sometimes God has to take us down notch he might have to keep us financially a little bit leaner than we want to be or he could send physical ailments a literal thorn in the flesh right and living in Arizona we know about the thorn in the flesh who is who has had a literal thorn in your flesh since you've lived here yeah pretty much everybody you know I I walk around and run around a lot barefoot I've lit I mean I guess God's just trying to keep me humble because I've had hundreds of burrs in my foot over the years where you step on a burr and it stabs you and you have to pull it out you know who knows what I'm talking about those little goats heads yeah they are demonic is what they are but you know you get these little goats head stuck in your foot or thorns cactus needles I mean if you live here long enough you're gonna get all of it if you spend any time outside okay well God gave him a thorn in the flesh we don't know what that is people have speculated about this over the years they said hey maybe it was bad eyesight you know because he talked about how people would have plucked out their own eyes and given them to him because they loved him so much or maybe it was this maybe it was that maybe it was just the fact that he talks about in this passage about you know not being a great speaker and so but it was probably more like a physical ailment I think that God purposely doesn't tell us what it was because he wants us to be able to apply it to our life because we you know whatever our thorn in the flesh if it was a specific thing then we might look at that and say well I can't relate because my thorn in the flesh is totally different than what Paul had so I think he wants to leave it generic so that you can apply it to your life maybe your thorn in the flesh is a disease that you have maybe you have some kind of a handicap or some kind of a I don't know is that even politically correct even say that anymore you know maybe you're challenged or special but you know you know maybe you have some kind of a physical handicap a physical ailment whether it's a disease maybe you're lame that's probably not a bad that's probably a bad thing to say now maybe you're crippled you know maybe you're maybe you're blind maybe you're deaf maybe you are whatever dumb you know and I mean like dumb like you can't speak these are Bible words folks you know whatever your ailment maybe you have diabetes or maybe you have asthma or maybe you you know walk with a limp or whatever I mean look I bet you wish that you didn't have that right whatever your physical I'm you know I have a finger that pops out of joint every day and it's annoying it hurts it bugs me sometimes I I literally just think to myself someday I may have to just chop off this finger so that it stops popping out of joint I'm not gonna do it but sometimes it starts hurting so much and I start thinking like man do I just need to you know if I write finger a Fendi just cut it off you know and I'm I'm not gonna do it folks but I'm just saying cuz it'll just keep bugging me and hurting it's just like we're gone but then you hear about people who get limbs amputated it hurts anyway they have like a phantom pain from where their limb used to be so that's not the answer but anyway you know I have I have this probably my worst thing is I have this problem with my throat that caused me to choke on my food almost every day so I just am constantly choking all the time just choking like literally a couple weeks ago I I had something stuck in my throat and I'm not talking about eating big pieces of steak or something I'm talking about my esophagus is is like a soda straw a small soda straw in size literally so I have to chew my food really well and wash it down and so stuff gets stuck in my throat all the time I literally a couple weeks ago had something stuck in my throat for over an hour and I was just throwing up for over an hour trying to get this thing out of my throat is stuck in my throat and this is some everyday every literally you are talking about praying for your food you know I'm sitting there I don't just pray for my food once I'm praying with every bite I'm like please don't let me choke don't choke don't choke don't literally every bite of food I take I have to concentrate on not choking so that I don't choke on my food okay and it's something my dad struggled with my brother it's but they don't have it as bad as I do but it's something that has gotten worse the older that I get and it just it's like the rest of my body grew and my throat just stayed the same size or something so anyway you know this is just like a nightmare it's a pain in the neck it's very embarrassing because sometimes I'll be in a public place like I'll be a guest preacher somewhere or I'm visiting somewhere and I'll be eating with people and all of a sudden I just jump up and just run outside or jump up and run to the bathroom and they don't know why I just jumped up and ran away and then sometimes they might hear from the bathroom like vomiting sounds or sometimes I've been known to be just literally by the side of the road you know or outside the restaurant in the bushes on my knees throwing up for like 20 minutes and people probably think I'm drunk you know especially a guy in a suit in the bushes outside a restaurant throwing up they think man this guy you know happy hour started early for this guy or something it's embarrassing it's humiliating to be with people and you're throwing up puking and it's embarrassing right so you know I don't like that I wish that I would be healed of that but you know what you're just gonna have things like that in your life that maybe embarrass you sometimes or make you look stupid or there or they just it's very painful to have something stuck in your throat for an hour it hurts and all the acids coming up and everything like that now thankfully it's not life-threatening because whenever I have something stuck in my throat it never blocks my airway otherwise I would have been dead about 500 times so it's not life-threatening I've had stuff stuck in my throat for two three hours before so the point is that you're gonna and you know okay I'm just bringing up that illustration just to illustrate something to you but but I guarantee you you've got other things maybe it's a it's a relationship problem a financial problem a physical literal physical thorn in the flesh which is probably what Paul's talking about some kind of a physical ailment whatever these things are God allows us to have these things to keep us humble let me just explain some to you and I'm gonna close on this point because this is a key point let me just explain something to you let's say you grew up and you went to school and you were good-looking popular healthy dressed stylishly smart excelling in schoolwork excelling in sports everybody likes you you're the prom king the prom queen the whatever the class president whatever guess what you know what you know what you're gonna be a horrible person people where just everything goes well for them they end up being bad people why because suffering makes us a better person that's why David said it's good for me that I've been afflicted that I might keep thy word so bad things happen to us suffering sorry the Bible says through the sorrow of the countenance the heart is made better so you know what let's say you look when I was growing up let me let me just I'm telling you all my my my trials and tribulations my woes my faults tonight you know when I was growing up look up until the city and I'm sure people you know would love to use these things to make fun of me or whatever but here's the thing from the time I was starting out school all the way until I was around 11 I was the shortest kid in the class if you look at my class picture it's me and a Filipino kid and a Mexican kid in the front super short everybody else is tall and guess what those are my two best friends right there okay you know the Filipino and the Mexican that were my height all right so basically you know when I grew up I was the shortest kid in the class all the way through sixth grade then seventh grade boom I shot up and now I'm a normal white guy height of five ten and a half okay but when I was growing up I was the shortest kid in the class that's not easy you know and then also when I was a teenager I had horrible acne horrible acne like one of the worst acne of people that I knew and at the time you wish that you were taller you wish that you didn't have acne you wish XY and Z were different about yourself but guess what if you were great looking and tall dark and handsome and smart and excelling at everything and feeling great you'd be a horrible person okay God uses these things to keep us humble so let's say you have acne guess what that can keep you humble from going around thinking that you're just the greatest person ever and you're so beautiful and you're so cool and everything you know what it lets you know how other people feel they'd have other problems with their appearance or issues you can develop empathy and not just be somebody where everything goes perfect for them or maybe maybe you're short or maybe you're you know overweight or you have acne or you're bald or what I don't know whatever is wrong with you but anyway the point is I'm just I'm just trying to see how many lines I can cross tonight of being politically incorrect but the point is whatever is wrong with you tonight guess what guess what that's how God made you God allowed you to be born short or predisposition for your throat being way too small or or you know being too short or have an acne or just whatever to go bald in your twenties or or whatever happened to you right I mean I've seen people who got gray hair when they were a teenager or in their 20s you see people go bald in their 20s like oh man you know Oh Lord why did you do this to me so that you wouldn't be a jerk he's making you a nice person because guess what when you go through life and you have problems and you have faults you're not so high and mighty and it makes you a humble person it makes you a better person makes you a nice person makes you an empathetic person so all I'm saying is this I want you to be encouraged tonight about your infirmities that's why Paul said all glory in my infirmities say you know what you got to get to a point of maturity in your life where you say praise God that I have acne praise God that I was short praise God that I had that disease or praise God for my throat or my finger or whatever is wrong with you because God does those things for a reason God could have just snapped his fingers and made you different you say well I'm ugly God made you ugly for a reason God wants you to be ugly okay you know I remember one preacher said you know he hated being short his whole life he actually had his fully grown height was like five two which is pretty short for a man and he was like five two but he said you know what then I met my wife and she was like five foot or five one or something and it was just like perfect and he said you know maybe if I would have been tall I wouldn't ended up with her but I ended up with her cuz it's like hey baby I'm short you're short you know so he was happy that he was short hey God made me short great so that I could basically you know hit it off with this woman that's gonna be my wife gonna be a great wife great life great relationship so God has done the things that he's done for a reason and so Paul is saying you know I wanted God to remove the thorn from my flesh but he didn't because he's keeping me humble well this isn't the Bible for a reason it's for us to learn from that and say you know what God's keeping me humble he allowed me to get sick or to be weak so that I could stay humble you know there are so many things in my life where I felt like sometimes something's just working against me not allowing me to succeed there was just a force working against me not allowing me to succeed but then I look back at those things I'm like I'm glad I didn't succeed at that because God had a different plan for me he had a different route from my life if I would have succeeded here here or here or here then I wouldn't ended up where I am now or relationships that failed because I'm supposed to be with my wife and so yeah that's why those relationships failed they were supposed to fail does everybody understand what I'm saying so these thorns in our flesh rejoice in them be thankful for all things and don't get upset when you pray to God to fix something he doesn't fix it if you pray to God and you in the sincerity of your heart according to God's will you pray to the Lord and ask him to do something for you and you love him and you keep his commandments and you pray and he doesn't do it then it means that it's not supposed to happen because he's either gonna do it for you if it's good for you or he knows that's not good for you so I'm not gonna answer that prayer because I got something better for you I've got a better plan okay so don't get depressed because you're ugly or whatever because you're supposed to be ugly that was the plan from before the foundation of the world and I'm being silly I'm I'm being and honestly I am being facetious because I look around tonight I don't see anybody who's ugly and I mean that from the bottom of my heart because you know what I don't let Hollywood and Madison Avenue tell me what ugly means so I look around and I see a bunch of beautiful people you know why because if you love God you're a beautiful person and God made us all the way that we are we don't have to try to look like someone else we have to try to be someone else because you know what God made us the way that we are and the Bible says he's made all things beautiful in his time and if we are fearfully and wonderfully made so don't let the world tell you that you're ugly just because you are you know modeling challenged or whatever you know because you're you're you're Madison Avenue challenged your Hollywood challenged okay guess what I don't want to look like the the the whoremongers of Hollywood I don't want to be some pretty boy that's ready to be an NSYNC or the Backstreet Boys you know I you know what I want to look like this is what I want to look like believe it or not I'm happy with the way I look you know this is the way God made me this is who I am it is what it is you know what I mean and and if people think that I look handsome or ugly it doesn't really matter because you know what this is who God made me and I just know this is the face I'm supposed to have for whatever reason and whatever face you have that's the face that you're supposed to have for whatever the reason okay you know and and and you know what I'm sure as I get older I'm probably not gonna get better looking you know by the time I'm 60 70 80 I might start looking a little bit rough I don't know but you know what I'm gonna be just as happy with the way I look when I'm 75 as I do now because it's whatever God plan is now some people they modify their own appearance and make themselves look goofy but the way that God made us okay you know I can't vouch for mutilations that people do but you know the way God made us is the way we're supposed to look and I and I look around and I see a bunch of great-looking people today you're you look you you are you are just great all right so I'm practicing being a TV preacher being really positive y'all look so good tonight who is that an impression of quick all right very good all right all right let's buy our dinner board of prayer that's a great place to end the sermon all right dear Lord we thank you so much for everything you give us Lord and Lord we even thank you for the thorns in the flesh the infirmities although they're not fun and we we may spend time begging you to remove physical ailments and problems Lord thank you for the problems that I've had in my life because you've used them to make me grow as a Christian Lord and I just pray that people would not get sad or depressed about physical problems that they have but rather they would just understand that God can use them if they're blind if they're deaf if they're if they're lame whatever it is they can be used for your will and in heaven all those things will be fixed and so thank you for your word and the encouragement and in Jesus name we pray amen