(Disclaimer: This transcript is auto-generated and may contain mistakes.)

Okay, see you're holding that third note, do you want it to hold that third note in the third measure? Are we getting started? Oh wait, I got to stop now. We can hold it, what do you want us to do? Yeah, we'll just, I'll just play it later. Okay, I'll get it. So, I've got the pad on. Yeah, it's like, there's the recording in here that you hold, that you hold in therapy. Okay. Alrighty, welcome to day four Baptist Church. Please find our seats and open up our memos to song number 140. We'll be singing song number 140, we have an anchor, we'll have song number 140. We have an anchor, we have song number 140. Lessened to the rock which made the wind, rather than to keep in the safe house full. In the safe way, the soul can stand. For to dwell still, we would want to save our time. For death is waiting, and we will always be, for the angry witch of our family. We have anger that makes us swollen, steadfast to share what a good thing's done. Lessened to the rock which made the wind, rather than to keep in the safe house full. In the life-changing room at the time, the city of God will come. We shall make earth last for the foundation, with the storms that pass through our family. We have it in the earth that keeps us sober, steadfast to share what the wind holds round. Lessened to the rock which made the wind, rather than to keep in the safe house full. In the life-changing room at the time, the city of God will come. We shall make earth last for the foundation, with the storms that pass through our family. We shall make earth last for the foundation, with the storms that pass through our family. We'll be singing the song number 238, Christ's Liveth in Me. We'll be singing the song number 238. Christ's Liveth in Me. Christ's Liveth in Me. Whom the salvation meets, and Christ's Liveth in Me. As God's work now will be lost, as in the first year. So praise the God of truth and grace, his spirit welled with you. Christ's Liveth in Me. Christ's Liveth in Me. Whom the salvation meets, and Christ's Liveth in Me. With the one and all that God has given, in life and on my daily living. As God the one who's God I know, and Christ's Liveth in Me. Christ's Liveth in Me. Christ's Liveth in Me. Whom the salvation meets, and Christ's Liveth in Me. If you would like a bulletin and haven't received one, go ahead and slip up your hand when we brought it to you. On the back there we have our service times. We'll be back this evening at 5.30 p.m. and again this Thursday at 7 as we're going through the book of Genesis. We'll be in chapter 37 this week. You have the soul winning times bowl at it as well as the salvation, the baptisms, and the attendance averages. And of course then we have just a couple notes about the church there if you need those. But there's really not a lot in the way of announcements this morning so we'll just go ahead and sing our next song and then we'll get into preaching. All right, please open up your windows for song number 20. We'll be singing song number 20, When I See the Blood, in a song number 20. piano plays in bright rhythm I was walking down the line on the cross I've been posting the pain all this love All that we see when we meet and we're here Yes, it will pass, it will pass over you When I see the blood, When I see the blood, When I see the blood Oh, it will pass, it will pass over you Jesus will save us, Jesus will save us As He has promised, so will we now Oh, send her here and trust in His word And it will pass, it will pass over you When I see the blood, When I see the blood, When I see the blood Oh, it will pass, it will pass over you Jesus will save us, Jesus will save us And it will pass, it will pass over you Oh, send her here and trust in Jesus And it will pass, it will pass over you When I see the blood, When I see the blood, When I see the blood Oh, it will pass, it will pass over you Oh, send her here and trust in Jesus And it will pass, it will pass over you Jesus will save us, Jesus will save us And it will pass, it will pass over you When I see the blood, When I see the blood, When I see the blood, When I see the blood, It will pass, it will pass over you As the opportunity goes around all over the baby, we reach verse 2 Corinthians 4, and that's 2 Corinthians 4. 2 Corinthians 4, beginning at verse 1, As we have received mercy, we think not, but have announced the hidden themes of dishonesty, not walking in the craftiness, nor having the word of God as seeker, but by manifestation of the truth, commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God. But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost. On whom the God of this world hath lighted a mind to roam with, believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, shall shine into us. For we preach not ourselves that Christ feeds the Lord, and ourselves his servants for Jesus' sake. For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, has shined in our hearts to give the light and the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. For we have this treasure in earth and vessels that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us. We are trouble on every side, yet not distressed. We are dead, but not in despair. Persecuted, but not forsaken. Cast down, but not destroyed. Always bearing about from the body the dying of the Lord Jesus, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our body. For we, which live, are always delivered unto death, for Jesus' sake, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our mortal flesh. So then death worketh in us, but life in you. We, having the same spirit of faith, according as it is written, I believe, and therefore have I spoken. We also believe, and therefore speak. Knowing that he which raised up the Lord Jesus shall raise up us also by Jesus, and shall present us with you. For all things are for your sake, that their budding grace might prove the thanksgiving of many be down to the glory of God. For which cause we faint not, that though our outward man perish, yet the inward man is renewed day by day. For our light affliction is a breath for our moment, working for us a far more exceeding and eternal way of glory. For we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen. For the things which are seen are temporary, but the things which are not seen are eternal. That's better. Now I'm going to turn to David. Thank you so much, Father God, for your morning prayers and for our prayers. Please bless our family and friends that have occurred, and that our prayers be with you. Amen. So in 2 Corinthians 4, I just want to look at just the first few verses here. It says, Therefore, seeing we have received this ministry, as we have received mercy, we faint not, but have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully, but by manifestation of the truth, commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God. But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost, in whom the God of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not. Lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them. For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord, and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake. So before I really get into it, I just want to point out a couple things here. Paul is making the point here that he is a servant, that he is somebody that has taken on this ministry not for himself, not for his own self-anggrandizement, not so that he could prof of it in some way, but that he's actually a servant of Christ. He's not preaching himself. He's preaching Christ, as it says in verse 5, as servants for Jesus' sake. So he's telling them this is our motivation. We are preaching not ourselves, and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake. And he's saying to the church, look, we're your servants. We're here to serve you. We brought the gospel. We're serving the lost by bringing the gospel to them. If the gospel is hid, it is hid to them that are lost, in whom the God of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not. So he's saying we're doing all these things for the sake of other people. And this is the role of a minister. This is the role of one who preaches the gospel, but is also the role of one who would lead or pastor a church. And I want to preach a sermon this morning called Pastors are People. Pastors are People. I'm going to take a break from the Mark series this week, this Sunday, but I think it's a timely sermon. It's something I've actually been thinking about for several months now. I've actually thought about this sermon probably two months ago. I've kind of had this on my mind, kind of trying to get this across without coming across as too, you know, self-serving. But I think it's something that, you know, people in a church need to be reminded of when it comes to pastors, when it comes to ministers, that they're people just like you. You know, yeah, they're in a certain position, they have certain authority in certain areas, and God uses them perhaps in a particular way, but let's not forget that those that minister unto us are also people, meaning they're flawed, they have shortcomings, they make mistakes, just like everybody else. I think sometimes people lift up pastors, they lift up preachers, and then when they find out the fact that they're just a person like everybody else, you know, they can be let down, okay? But Paul, again, he's reminding them, hey, the reason why we're doing this, the reason why we're doing this is not for our own sake, but for Christ's sake. It's for the lost, it's for those that are blinded, and it's we're servants for your sakes. And it's just a good thing to be reminded of as a church that those that are ministering unto a church are doing just that. And let's just continue on here in the passage. He says in verse 6, For God, who commanded light to shine out of darkness, has shined in our hearts to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. Notice verse 7, But we have this treasure in earth and vessels, right? He's saying, look, yeah, the light of Christ is shining through us, it's shined in our hearts, we're here to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God, we're here to edify the church, we're here to preach to the lost, we're here to preach unto others the word of God, whether it's behind the pulpit or out on the street pounding the pavement. But let's not also forget, verse 7, that we have that treasure, that treasure of the glory of God shining through us in an earth and vessel, meaning a less than perfect vessel. And that's my first point this morning when it comes to this idea that pastors are people, is that they're not perfect. And by perfect I mean they're not sinless, they're not without their flaws, they're not without their shortcomings because they're people. And we need to exercise patience towards them just as much as we would anybody else. They are not perfect. That's what Paul's kind of saying here, I think. He's reminding them, we're doing all these things for your sake, yes, it's a high calling to give the light, the knowledge, the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ, to preach, as he says elsewhere, the unsearchable riches of Christ, it's a great privilege, it's a great responsibility, but nonetheless, it's being done through flawed people, it's being done through people who are not perfect. If one of the biblical requirements for being a pastor was to be sinless or to be perfect, then we wouldn't have any pastors. Nobody would be able to fulfill that role. Nobody would be able to get up behind a pulpit and preach the word of God because we all have sinned. We've all come short of the glory of God. Now obviously I understand that there's certain sins that would disqualify one from the pastorate, that would bar one from entering into the pastorate, but beyond that, there are going to be sins that even pastors and deacons are going to be guilty of just like any other layman in the church because we're people. Pastors are people, meaning first of all, that they are not perfect. They are not perfect. And it's a foolish thing, and you're just setting yourself up for disappointment, and look, I know I don't, I could move on from this point pretty quickly because everybody that's come here for any length of time already knows that pastors aren't perfect. I'm not a pastor, I'm a pastoring, and we would say, hey, you know, deacon, you don't have to belabor this point, we get it, we know you're not perfect. Trust us. We've seen enough to know that that is indeed the case. But if you're expecting people to be perfect behind the pulpit, you're setting yourself up for disappointment. You're just asking to be let down because pastors are people, and people in general as a whole are not perfect. It's not like you get called in the ministry, you go to the ministry, and all of a sudden you know, this light shines down on you, and you become this whole other being who just walks on water, never makes mistakes. Actually, you have more problems when you go into the ministry. You just by nature take on more problems, more difficulties than you would otherwise perhaps just being a Joe Church member. And there's nothing wrong with that, it just kind of comes with the territory. So they are not perfect. And I'm going to move on beyond that point because, again, I don't need to belabor that. We all probably understand that. So pastors are people, why one, excuse me, rather we should keep that in mind and understand that because they're people, they're not perfect, and that they have problems. Now if you would, you're going to want to keep something in 1st, 2nd Corinthians, but go to verse 8 there of 2nd Corinthians 4. We're going to be around 2nd Corinthians, 1st Corinthians all morning. So if I have you turn elsewhere, just kind of keep something there. But they have problems. Because pastors are people and they're not perfect, they're going to have problems. And as I just said a minute ago, some of their problems are going to be problems that you might never face just because you're not in the ministry. Because when you're not in behind the pulpit, when you're not one who's leading a church, when you're not one who's out there on Front Street, you're not a target like you would be if you were a pastor. If the pastor is there to lead the church, to guide the church, he's going to have the biggest target on his back. And the more influential and the more difference he's making for the kingdom of God, the more he is shining that light of the gospel of the glory of God, the bigger the target he's going to have on his back and that target's going to be put there by the devil. And part of the problems that pastors are going to have come from just being in the ministry. They have problems because that's part of being in the ministry. Because again, pastors aren't perfect just like people aren't perfect. So when you get a bunch of people together you're going to have problems. And often whose job is that to deal with those problems? A lot of that falls on the pastor. Look at 2 Corinthians 4 verse 8. He said, We are troubled on every side, yet not distressed. Now obviously there's troubles that we could share in as a church. But even when a church is going through some kind of persecution, I guarantee you, I promise you, they're not going through it to the degree to which the pastor and his family are going through it. But we are troubled on every side, yet not distressed. We are perplexed, but not in despair. Persecuted, but not forsaken. Cast down, but not destroyed. Now again, I just said they're not perfect but are these problems that are a result of their own shortcomings, their own sin, their own flaws? No, these are problems that come just for being a pastor. Just for being one who is going to step up and lead a church and fill a pulpit and lead and guide and rule in the house of God. You just instantly get to take on these additional problems. Along with everything else that comes with just trying to live a Christian life without being a pastor. Persecution, right? Not forsaken. Cast down, but not destroyed. Always bearing about in the body the dying of the Lord Jesus, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our body, for we which live are always delivered unto death for Jesus' sake, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our mortal flesh. Now this is the mentality that you have to have in ministry. When you're going to serve Christ, that we're delivered unto death. And Paul lived this. Paul is somebody who could say that. He bore in his body the marks of our Lord Jesus Christ. Go to 2 Corinthians chapter number 12. So pastors are people. They're not perfect. They have problems. And a lot of those problems sometimes just result from being, because that's part of being in the ministry. We saw that there. Look at 2 Corinthians chapter 12 verse 7. He said, and lest I should be exalted above measure, through the abundance of revelations there was given unto me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure. That sounds nice, right? But Paul would say, hey, it's worth it to be the one that penned the New Testament, to be the one that was such a powerful influence for Christianity, to be somebody that has had more profound impact than anybody else, any man that's ever come after him. He would say that messenger of Satan that buffeted me, it was worth it. It was worth having that. But again, this is a problem that pastors have because they're part of a ministry. They're going to have problems that perhaps others don't. For this thing I besought the Lord thrice that I might depart from me, and he said unto me, my grace is sufficient for thee, for my strength is made perfect in weakness, most gladly therefore will I glory in firmities that the power of Christ may rest upon me. I don't know that a lot of people would be willing to go to that length, to say hey, I'm going to suffer these things, I'm going to be buffeted of Satan, I'm going to have a thorn in the flesh, I'm going to take on all these other problems that are just part of being in a ministry, just so that for the sake of others, but also that the power of Christ may rest upon me. Pastors and others who want to have a strong influence for Christ, there's a price to pay for that. There's a price to pay to have your message heard, to get your message out there. Because there's people in this world that don't want to hear it. They want to attack that message. They're going to go after it. And let's not forget also that we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but also against principalities and powers in high places. Against the darkness and the rulers of darkness of this world. That there's a spiritual wickedness in high places that fixes its eye that sets its sights on those that are making an impact for Christ. And Paul said, you know, I take pleasure in it. I take pleasure, verse 10, in affirmities and reproaches and necessities and persecutions and distresses for Christ's sake. For when I am weak, then I am strong. To have that influence, you're going to have problems. And part of those problems just come because that's what it takes to be a minister. That's what it takes to be a pastor. That's what it takes to have influence and to make a difference as a preacher in this world. And look, you can be a pastor today and avoid a lot of these problems to a certain degree. You know, you can kind of negate the persecution that the world will bring to your doorstep by just not preaching certain things. By just glossing over things or hiding it under a bushel. Not putting it out there publicly. Not trying to get that word out, that message out. You'll still have other problems, obviously, because again, anytime you're dealing with people, you have to be patient and loving and kind. People are going to have different problems just like anybody else. But you can be a pastor and just kind of keep that and say, well, that's about the amount of problems that I want to deal with. And you can live this life and maybe never be buffeted of Satan. Never really have these reproaches brought to you. Never suffer these persecutions. You can be that as a pastor, but you know what? You're not going to have as a profound impact for the gospel of Christ than you would otherwise. If you were willing to suffer these things. If you're willing to go through distresses and infirmities and reproaches. If you are willing to suffer these things, to glory in those things, then you have the impact. And there's a lot of pastors out there today, they take that former route. They say, you know, I'm just happy not having any more problems than I need to with the world. And they eventually, a lot of them even become compromisers. They'll compromise the word of God. Maybe it's not even they won't preach it. They'll actually preach against it. You know what? A lot of them, they don't have the problems that other preachers do. They don't have the problems that other pastors do who take a bold stance for the word of God and actually preach the whole counsel of the word of God, which is what they're supposed to be doing as a preacher. I don't understand the point in getting up behind the pulpit if you're going to trim the message, if you're going to hold back. It doesn't make any sense. So pastors, you know, they're people. They're not perfect. They have problems. And a lot of those problems, you know, just come from being part of the ministry. That's just, you know, that's just natural. There's nothing wrong with that. You know, there's nothing wrong with people having problems. You can't, but here's the thing, you can't sit there and expect a pastor to be okay with the fact that a congregation that has problems, that other people have sins, that other people have shortcomings and flaws, and then expect, but then turn around and expect him to not have his own. You know, it goes both ways. You can say, well, the pastor just needs to be kind and forgiving and patient and understanding that we're just people. Yeah, he does. I agree. That's part of the ministry. But you know what? That needs to be reciprocated. You know, you need to also understand that pastors are people, too. And they have shortcomings and they have flaws and they have sins. Nobody's perfect. So, you know, that leads me to my next point under the fact that they have problems. Not do they only have problems just because they're part of the ministry, but even in their personal lives. You know, people go through different seasons in their life, they're in different stages in their life and they have, you know, certain problems are presented to them during those times and they have to work through that stuff. Now, if you would, go to Romans chapter 7. Romans chapter 7. I'm sure we would all agree that Paul was a great man of God. Outside of the Lord Jesus Christ, probably the greatest. Greatest Christians ever lived. But you know, he had problems, didn't he? Now, he doesn't go into the sordid details, and I don't know if there was anything obviously that would have been some big, you know, giant controversy with Paul. Obviously not. But he did have sin. You know, he did have struggles with the flesh, just like anybody else. Look at verse 14. For he said, For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin. Now, I understand this is in the greater context of him trying to convince people of their need for salvation, that the law is not sufficient to bring one unto Christ, that they cannot go about trying to establish their own righteousness, that they need to submit themselves to the righteousness of Christ because we've all come short of the glory of God. There's none that do with good, no, not one. I get that. But he's, you know, it's interesting to me that he's illustrating this broader principle, this doctrine, using himself as an example. And that's kind of a pro-teaching tip from Paul, I think, there too. If you're going to, you know, you can kind of soften the blow with people if you include yourself, you know, when you're talking about sins and things like that. It's saying, you know, you can sometimes be like, hey, we all have these problems, not you all have these problems, right? Because we're all people. But notice, again, he's illustrating this broader principle here by including himself, saying, I'm carnal. Oh, Paul, what do you mean you're carnal? Sold under sin. For that which I do, I allow not. Excuse me, for that which I do, I allow not. Excuse me, this is such a tongue twister. For that which I do, I allow not. Meaning the things that I do are the things I don't want to do. Meaning he has a struggle in the flesh just like anybody else. For what I would, that I do not. The things that I want to do, I don't do those. But the things that I hate, that do I. In the flesh, which we all have, you know, and I understand that Paul said we need to mortify the members of our flesh, we need to walk in the spirit and not in the flesh. We need to die daily. He said, I am crucified with Christ, nonetheless I live, yet not I, but Christ live within me in the life which I now live in the flesh. I live by the faith of the Son of God who gave himself for me. But he's saying it's still there. He's still flawed. This is an excuse, obviously, for someone to just go, you know, pastor, just run out and commit a bunch of sin. Well, you know, Paul was carnal, too. But he's saying, look, I'm flawed. I have personal problems. I have struggles with the sin. I have to keep my body under and bring it into subjection. I have to fight the flesh every day just like anybody else. That's what he's saying. Because I hate the things that I hate, that do I. Verse 16, If then I do that which I would not, I consent to the law that is good. Now then it is no more I that do it, but that sin that dwelleth in me. Not sin that used to dwell in me. He's saying sin that dwells in me. For I know that in me that is in my flesh dwelleth no good thing. For to will is present with me, but how to perform that which is good I find not. For the good that I would I do not, but the evil which I would not, that I do. Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. So Paul is saying here, you know, he has problems. You know, he's got problems in 2 Corinthians chapter 4, 2 Corinthians chapter 12. You know, being a part of the ministry. You're going to have problems as a pastor. But you're also going to have the same problems you would have not being a pastor in your personal life. You're going to have sins, struggles, shortcomings, faults just like anybody else. Now, we need to keep this in mind and understand that yes pastors are people and they're not perfect, they're flawed, but we also have to remember that pastors are people that are there to serve a very particular purpose. And they are powerfully used to that end. Okay, if you would go to Ephesians chapter number 4. Ephesians chapter number 4. It always blows my mind when I see how quickly people can turn on a preacher, how quickly people can turn on a pastor who has done so much for their own spiritual well-being. Who has, you know, as we just saw, puts himself out there like Paul. Puts himself out there to be attacked. Puts himself out there to deal with the problems that, you know, he doesn't have to deal with. You know, puts himself out there and becomes a minister for their sakes. You know, it's just out of the goodness of his heart of his love for God, just wants to fulfill that position, wants to fill that need, stand in the gap and preach the gospel and help people live a godly Christian life, edify the body of Christ. It's amazing to me how quickly people can sometimes turn on that same individual. And sometimes you just wonder, like, do you even understand how important a pastor is in your life? You know, pastors are important. And again, you know, I'm hesitant to preach this because it sounds like it's kind of self-serving. I understand that. But, you know, as I recently heard elsewhere, if I don't say it, who else is gonna, right? And the fact is, is that pastors, preachers, they are powerfully used because they're preaching a powerful word. We understand that it is word of God that is powerful, that is quick and powerful and sharper than a two-edged sword, dividing the sunder of soul and spirit and the joint of the marrow, discerning of thoughts and tense of the heart. We understand that. But somebody has to get up and deliver that word. Somebody has to get up and apply that word. Somebody has to get up and boldly preach that word and be filled with the spirit and be used by God through his word to convict the hearts of men. Look at Ephesians chapter 4 verse 8. It says, Wherefore he saith, When he ascendeth up on high, he led captivity captain and gave gifts unto men. Now verses 9 and 10 are parenthetical, right? Meaning, you know, they got the two parentheses there at the beginning, at the end of verses 9 and 10, meaning you could just jump over that. It's kind of like a subthought to what he just said. And maybe that kind of helps us understand what I'm about to say next. Because some people read that and say, oh, he gave gifts unto men. And, you know, obviously people have certain abilities and skills and characteristics that make them better suited for certain things than others. And you could say that's a gift or a calling of God. Okay, I'm not going to argue with you. But I think in this context, the gifts that he's speaking about specifically are the apostles and the prophets and the evangelists and the pastors and the teachers, that those are actually gifts that God gave unto men. You say, oh, I don't know if I like the sound of that. Well, I mean, I'm just reading the Bible, okay? Because he says there he gave gifts unto men. We could read verses 9 and 10 in the context, but really that's parenthetical, so if you could just, you know, grammatically you could just jump over to verse 11. And he gave some apostles and some prophets and some evangelists and some pastors and teachers. You know, they gave people with certain gifts to fulfill these offices and we should not take those people for granted. We should not think that those people aren't important. But we should also understand that those same people are not perfect, that they're people. They're just that. They're people. They have problems. A lot of the problems that they have are a result of being in the ministry. They have problems because they're people too, but they're also powerfully used by God. I mean, wouldn't you say verse 12 is pretty powerful for the perfecting of the saints? And obviously I'm using that word perfect today in kind of two different contexts. The context of the Bible, you know, the word perfect just means complete and whole and entire wanting nothing as it says in James. That you'd be perfect and entire wanting nothing, meaning you're not lacking anything. There's no gaping holes in your Christian life, right? And look, that's the responsibility that falls upon these individuals, the apostles of which there are none today, the prophets, you know, which we could say are preachers, I guess, and some evangelists, you know, those that are going and that's some of you. When you go out and evangelize, you know, you could say, hey, that's me. It's a pretty important role. And some pastors and teachers. We would say that's a pretty important task that's been laid on these people to perfect the saints for the work of the ministry. You know, if you don't think God's work is that important, if you don't think perfecting the saints is that important, then you're not going to think that the people that are there to make that happen are that important. And that's how I, the only way I can explain how some people can just so quickly turn on a man of God that has done so much for them. And it showed no patience, no kindness, no mercy, no grace, and just be ready just at the drop of a hat to just condemn somebody. It's not right. They're there to perfect the saints. They're there for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ. That's pretty important. You know, we're not just here to, I'm not just putting on a show this morning. We're not here to just get up and, you know, just be entertained. What we're trying to do is edify the body of Christ. That's a huge task. You know, and that takes a lot. It takes a lifetime for that to happen. That's a never-ending work. Right? Because it's verse 13. Until we all come in the unity of faith, under the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, under the measure of the statue of the fullness of Christ. When does that happen? When you die or Jesus returns? So it's just like, you say, well, when does it end? It never ends. Especially if you're a church that's reaching people and bringing in new people. You know, you're going to be bringing in babes of Christ. You bring up a certain group of people. They mature. They take on responsibilities. They start to take on the strong meaning of the word of God. They themselves become ministers in their own right, going out and ministering to others and working the work of Christ. You know, they are becoming perfected. They mature. And then they bring somebody else in and it's like, alright, well, here we go again. And just the cycle, hopefully that's what you want, just keeps repeating. I mean, that sounds like a pretty important job. That sounds like that's somebody who's being powerfully used. But I think sometimes people, they understand that, they get that, but then they think, well, this person must be perfect. This person must never have any flaws. This person must never sin. This person must never have any shortcomings. You're wrong. Because this is, you know, this is an earthen vessel that's being used. That they actually may be of the power of God, right? That God would be glorified. That no flesh would glory in His presence. So, again, you know, let's just read the rest of the passage just to emphasize the importance of the work that prophets, evangelists, pastors, teachers are doing. Look at verse 14. That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine by the sleight of men and cunning craftiness wherein they lie in wait to deceive. You know, part of their job is to help us mature and become doctrinally sound Christians that cannot be deceived by those that are trying to deceive them. You know, many antichrists are God of the world. That's what John said in his day. He said even now there are many antichrists, right? And there are many antichrists gone out in the world. The whole world lieth in wickedness. And we know that as we draw nearer and nearer to the time of Christ's return that perilous times shall come. That things are going to become more spiritually dangerous. As time goes on and things become more and more spiritually perilous, you know, the roles that these people are filling are all the more important. They've always been important. Obviously. But it just seems to me like how much more so today when you have a biblically sound preacher, when you have somebody who's boldly preached the Word of God in a time of compromise and a time of weakness and a time of lameness and a time when people just want to sit down and not do the work that are forsaking soul winning, that are forsaking sound doctrine, that are just going along with this world's philosophy, that are just sometimes even perpetuating the same lies that the world is. How much more so is that person important when there's someone actually preaching the truth. When there's actually somebody standing up and doing something for God that actually matters, that makes a difference in this world. It's important. It's an important role. An important role. We need to make sure that we're not just ready on a drop of a dime just to, you know, just drop the hammer on these people. Because pastors are people too. They have problems. You know, and a lot of their problems are just because they're in the ministry. There's a lot of problems that they can just go without by not being in the ministry. You know, it might surprise people sometimes how often a minister thinks about not doing this anymore. Not because he doesn't love people, not because he doesn't love the Bible, not because he doesn't want to serve God and serve others, but because there's just so much stress and just unrelenting pressure that comes with being in the ministry. So we should, you know, we should honor these people. We should lift up these people. We should pray for these people. And understand that they're being powerfully used. And the more powerfully a man of God is being used, the bigger the target gets on his back and the more attacks that are going to come his way. It's a fact. Go over to 1 Corinthians 10 or go to 1 Corinthians 10. So let me kind of counter this a little bit by saying, you know, of course these pastors are people who are powerfully used by God. But I want to warn us not to put pastors on a pedestal. And I know that seems kind of contradictory. I'm saying, look, these people are important. They fill a very important role. They should be respected. As he says in Hebrews chapter 13, obey them that have the rule over you and submit yourselves for they watch for your souls. That's a pretty important job. As they that must give an account. You know, they're going to give an account for how they ministered to you. Right? That they may do it with joy and not with grief. For that is unprofitable for you. You know, we profit a great deal from having pastors and teachers. From having evangelists. From having ministers. We profit from that. They do these things for our sakes. And we should respect that. And we should value that. And we should not be quick to cast that off or discount that. But at the same time we don't want to put individuals on a pedestal. Because again, if you're going to put somebody and I mean that in the sense of thinking that they're more than they actually are. You have to understand that, you know, yes pastors are being used of God. They speak the word of God. You know, and they're great men of God. But they're still men. They're still just men. And I think sometimes the reason why people become disenchanted with pastors and preachers and churches and even turn on them is because they lifted them up higher than they put them on a pedestal. They think, oh they're perfect. They never make mistakes. They don't have the problems that we have. Well that's not true. Pastors are people. What makes them so different than you? Nothing. It's just they're fulfilling a role. That's it. They've just taken on certain responsibilities. That's the only difference. We don't want to put people on a pedestal. Look at 1 Corinthians chapter 1. This is something people do. Verse 10. Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all speak the same thing, that there be no divisions among you. That you may be perfectly joined together in the same mind and the same judgment, for it hath been declared unto me of you my brethren, by them which are the house of Chloe. I always like that. Chloe's kind of tattletaling. Like, oh Chloe, yeah, okay. But she did the right thing. She cares about the union of the church. That there are contentions among you. They're fighting, they're squabbling, they're nitpicking, whatever. And then he kind of shows us, gives us the details that they have these contentions over. Now, this I say, that every one of you sayeth, I am a Paul, and I am a Paulus, and I am Cephas, and I am Christ. So that's the contention. That's the divisions. That's why, you know, this is why he wants them to put aside and just be of one mind. That they're preferring one preacher above another, one pastor above another. What they're doing is they're putting men on a pedestal. Well, I am of Paul. You know, Paul's my guy. Look, Paul's a powerfully used guy, obviously. I'm not discounting or trying to bring these guys down any lower than they should be. But the fact is, is that sometimes people can put people on a pedestal. You know, without them even asking to be put on a pedestal. They just get put there. Because people in their minds think all these people are perfect. You know, they're these great preachers. They must just have all knowledge. They're just the beacon of truth and righteousness. I mean, they think it's God on earth, practically, sometimes. He's saying, look, you know, what's the deal here? You're saying I'm of Paul, and I of Paulus, and I of Cephas. You know, that's Peter. And I of Christ. And Paul says in verse 13, is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? You know, I didn't shed my blood for you. I didn't leave heaven's throne. I didn't come down here and walk among sinful men as the Son of God. I didn't go up, you know, up Calvary's mount. I didn't get nailed to the cross and despised and be shamed publicly like that. I didn't suffer hell for you. Christ did that. I'm just a man. That's what he's saying. I'm just Paul. You shouldn't put people on a pedestal. You know, obviously we need to give honor to whom honor is due. We need to respect pastors and the role that they play, but don't put them on a pedestal and think that they're perfect because they're not, because they're people, and they're flawed. They have sins, and they have shortcomings, and they make mistakes just like anybody else. Well, I'm of Paul, and I'm of Paulus, and I of Cephas. Look, I get you having your favorite preacher. I have my favorite preachers. I have preachers that I listen to, and I have preachers I don't listen to. All I ask is that when you're here, you listen. You listen to whoever you want outside these doors, unless it's some rank heretic. But you have some other pastor, some other preacher who's preaching you really enjoy, go listen. Aren't you envious? No, he's good. Go listen. I wish you would hear more preaching than I don't have to preach it. Sometimes you wonder why these new IFB people, it's like they show up to church, and they're just ready-made church members practically. You are people who come from a church background. It's because somebody else was preaching to them and got them all straightened out, and then they show up here, and it's like, great. Well, they're just ready to go. I don't have to start from scratch and build people up. Sometimes you do. There's nothing wrong with that. It's part of the job. But a lot of these people go out and listen to all this preaching online. Then they find a new IFB church, and they show up, and it's like half the job's been done. Please, go listen to your favorite preacher. Please. And listen to what he says, and apply it to your life. But don't put him on a pedestal. Don't think he's perfect, because he's not. And if you do, all you do is set yourself up for disappointment. It's like that saying, you ever heard that saying, never meet your heroes? Who's ever heard that phrase? Never meet your heroes. People will aggrandize somebody in their mind, they'll think some celebrity, some sports figure, whatever, some famous person, whatever, someone they really look up to, and they steam very highly, and then they meet that person, and it's a total letdown. They're like, you're nothing like I thought. You're nothing like what I imagined you'd be like. Yeah, because you put them on a pedestal, and you forgot that they're just a person. They're just people. If you would go to 1 Corinthians chapter number 2, 1 Corinthians chapter number 2, just one chapter over. Look, the men of God are obviously people that need to be shown respect. They are fulfilling a very important role, and they're very powerfully used, often, in the life of individuals, and in edifying the body of Christ as a whole. But I guarantee you, they don't want you to think more highly of them than you ought to. Because here's the thing, when people put pastors on a pedestal, what they end up doing is following a man. They end up just following men. And when the problem comes, when they find out that that preacher, that pastor has problems or is flawed, they're faith wavers. They can't see past it. They have some kind of existential crisis or something, because their favorite pastor, their favorite preacher, turns out he's just a person like them. Look at verse 1 of 1 Corinthians 2, it says, and I, brother, when I came unto you, came not with excellency of speech or of wisdom, declaring unto you the testimony of God. See, I didn't show up trying to be some, using a bunch of fancy speech. For I determined not to know anything among you, save Jesus Christ and Him crucified. I mean, that's what matters. That's the pastor's job, pointing us all to Christ. Let's think about Christ. That's our standard. That's who we should be putting on a pedestal, the Most High. He said, I determined not to know anything among you, save Christ and Him crucified, and I was with you in weakness and in fear and in much trembling. And my speech and my preaching was now with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power. Why? Why did he do all that? Why did he not come to them with excellency of speech? Why was he with them and allow them to see the fear, the weakness, the trembling? Why did he not use enticing words? Because he didn't want people to put him on a pedestal. He didn't want people to put their faith in a man. He wanted them to put their faith in Christ and look to Christ for their standard, for their example. That's what verse 5 says, that your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men but in the power of God. Look, you as a child of God should be ready, willing, and able to follow any man of God. Any bona fide pastor, you should be able to get behind that guy 100% and move forward in the ministry. And if you can't do that, then your faith is in a man. I don't know what else to tell you. Your faith is in men. Well, I'd go to that church, but it's not this particular preacher. Well, then your faith is in a man and not in Christ. What you're going to find out is that that man is just like anybody else. You know, people are always asking for us to start churches. They're like, oh, you know, if there was a new IFB church in my area, I'd go. I'm like, well, are you going to church anywhere right now? No. Then your faith is in a man. And you know what? I already know that if we did start a church in some city where there's people like that, those same people who are so adamant that they'd show up but don't have the character to get themselves out into a local New Testament church where they are already, those same people will not show up. Oh, I'd be in a new, it's easy to say, oh, I'd be in a new IFB church if there was one in my city. Oh, would you? You know, if you're actually in church now, if you're, because now I know you're facedown in a man and it's in Christ, that you're trying to just serve Christ and not man. When somebody who's like, you know, says, hey, you know, I'm going to go to the best church in my area, I'm going to serve God to the best of my ability there, I'm going to be grateful for the pastor that I do have, I'm going to be grateful for the preacher that I do have, you know, that person is following Christ. They're not sitting there going, well, you know, I'd go to church if it was a specific pastor or if this pastor was more like these other pastors then I'd go to that church. You know, if he'd just get right on this one doctrine and it's not even like a major doctrine. Look, the Jews is not a major doctrine, friend. Zionism is not a deal breaker. It's not. Obviously, they're, you know, dispensationalists can get way off and it's unbiblical. We all get that. You know, the pre-trib rapture is not a deal breaker. It's not. I know if we, you know, they might be a deal breaker for them sometimes, unfortunately. I get that. You know, you go to these church, you try to go to an old IV church, you try to go in one of these churches and just sit down and be a blessing. You know, and then as soon as they find out you're post-trib or you listen to new IV preaching, they run you off. I know that happens. But that's not what I'm talking about. What I'm talking about is people who put preachers on a pedestal and then they use it as an excuse to just dismiss perfectly legitimate pastors. Perfectly legitimate churches. Well, you know what? You just put your faith in a man, you're not following Christ, and it's only a matter of time till your hero lets you down. Because he's a person. And he's flawed just like the rest of us. And he has problems that come with the ministry. Pastors have problems that, you know, come with just being a sinful human being. It doesn't negate the fact that they're powerfully used. So people need to, you know, make sure that they're not following men. Look, if for whatever reason, and this isn't like I don't have any plans, okay, just saying. If for some reason I step down and I just resign from the ministry, you know, just stop pastoring here down in Tucson, maybe just altogether, whatever. If you can't follow the next guy that fills this pulpit then I would feel like I failed to some degree. I'd say, well, I failed to get that person following Christ the way they ought to be. I would actually, you would say, wouldn't you be kind of, you know, proud of that fact when you take that as a compliment? Like, I only followed Deacon Russell. I'd say, no, I feel like I actually failed. I failed to get you to understand that pastors are just people and that your faith should not be in men, it should be in God, it should be in the Lord. And you shouldn't lift people up because they're gonna, you know, they're flawed, they're gonna let you down. But if you have, like, an actual realistic, you know, clear-eyed, sober view of what people are really like, and that pastors are people too, then you won't be let down. Then you can show mercy just as they've shown mercy. Then you can extend grace just as they have extended grace. Then you can be kind and loving just as they have. You know, when their faults and shortcomings, you know, are manifest too. Look, you don't have to look very far. Ask my wife. Don't you say a word. I mean, she can tell you, right? I know it comes as a shock to all of you that I'm not perfect either, okay? Don't put them on a pedestal, but, you know, we do need to show proper respect. We do. The Bible says in 1 Timothy 5 verse 17, Let the elders that rule well be kind of worthy of double honor, especially they who labor in the word and doctrine. Those that rule well are to be kind of worthy of double honor. For the Scripture saith, Thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn, and the laborer is worthy of his reward. And obviously, there's the monetary aspect of this, that pastors who are doing the work or working hard, they're worth every cent you're paying them. Now, obviously, you know, they're not going to go live some lavish lifestyles, you know, and they should live a modest, you know, just by modest means. They don't need to have you know, all these fancy cars and homes and things like that. That's what false prophets do, right? But, you know, sometimes people also get the opposite view where they think the pastor should be the poorest guy in the room. That if he's not a pauper, if he's not just like having to go to food banks and scrape by and be on wealth, you know, that he should just, you know, be grateful that he gets anything. That's not the right answer either. That's a wrong view as well. Give me neither poverty nor riches, but feed me with bread that is convenient for me, lest I steal and take the name of the Lord my God in vain. That's what David prayed in the Psalms. You know, they are to become worthy of double honor. There's nothing wrong with a pastor, you know, collecting a paycheck and being able to take care of his family to the same standard as anybody else, within reason. We all get that, okay? But there's also, you know, we should show them honor and as it says in verse 19, and not receiving accusations. You should be very slow to receive an accusation against a pastor, okay? And here's why. Because they are a target. They're going to have more accusations hurled at them than anybody else. Because people are trying to bring them down. People want them to fall. There's people who are hell-bent on destroying men of God in this world. That's their life's purpose. Their whole life revolves around trying to get someone to fall, a man of God. You know, you see some pastor going through some persecution, and then people start hurling accusations. It's like, I'm going to dismiss it. Without evidence, without, you know, faithful witnesses, and not just people blowing off their mouth, but actual faithful witnesses whose stories don't contradict. You know, then I would be, and even then, I would entreat an elder as a father, the Bible says. You know, I wouldn't be like, well that's it, you know, I don't know it all along, this guy about it, and just start, you know, tearing them up one side and down the other. I would humbly and meekly approach that elder and say, are these things true? Yes, no, you know, this is, it seems like it might be, but don't just, at the drop of a hat, receive. That's part of showing them honor, showing them the proper respect. We don't want to put them on a pedestal and think that they're above sin, that they're above falling, that they're above you know, shortcomings and things, but we don't want them under the other seam and act like they don't deserve any respect at all. Okay? And part of it is not receiving accusations. In fact, the Bible prescribes what you should do in that instance. Verse 20, then that sin rebuked before all that others also may fear. There's a couple different ways to look at that, and maybe the Bible's written this way so that we could apply this multiple different ways, but the sin that he's referring to there, I believe, is the one that would make the accusation against an elder without two or three witnesses. He's a railer at that point, he's a liar, he's a false witness. Right? A person that would bring an accusation against an elder should be rebuked before all that others also may fear. That's one interpretation, that's what I believe it's saying, but you could also apply it, and I believe it's perfectly biblical, that if a pastor does, you know, two or three witnesses, there is an accusation and it turns out to be valid and it's of a, you know, it's of a big enough problem where it has to, you know, disqualify him or has to be brought before the body, then that pastor also should be rebuked before all. Right? Some pastor, you know, has found out that he's, you know, spending the tithe money on at the casino and all these wicked things are going on, adultery, I'm saying not your commonplace and things that are beyond the pale kind of sin that would disqualify you. You know, obviously, that has to be rebuked publicly, and others also may fear. Okay? But I tend to think that the primary application is that those that would bring an accusation, a false accusation, they're the ones that should be rebuked before all. That way a pastor doesn't have to spend his ministry, you know, fending off accusation after accusation after accusation. People would be a lot less quick to just bring accusations if they know, well this could end, I could end up in the hot seat. You know, that's how it works, you know, sometimes if you start falsifying reports to the authorities, your name goes on a list. Just dismiss this guy because he's a liar. He's just bringing false reports. You know, you charge somebody with a false crime, you know, you get somebody indicted, you could end up going to jail as a result. In the Bible, if you were a false witness, you would suffer the punishment that that person would have if they'd been found guilty. Oh, he's a murderer, he's a rapist, and they find out that your witness is false, that you're lying, now you get put to death. Right? So it's kind of the same principle. People are going to be a lot less likely to bring false accusations if there's consequences that come with doing it when it's false. I want to make one more point here. You know, pastors are people. They are, you know, they're not perfect. They're going to commit sin sometimes. I mean, obviously, they're going to have sin in their life because they're not perfect. But, you know, they're flawed, they're not going to be perfect people. They're going to have shortcomings. And just because of the public nature of their office, you know, sometimes those things get magnified. Sometimes it's, you know, your business gets put on front street because you're a pastor. You know, that's a part of the problems that a pastor has. Not only does he have a problem that everybody else has, but because he's a pastor, sometimes not everybody gets to know about his problem. That sounds, you know, sign me up. And then we wonder like why guys aren't lining up for the ministry. Because they probably realize, like, they see what pastors have to go through sometimes and say, yeah, I'm not sure. I don't blame people for second guessing that. It's not for everyone. That's for sure. The ministry is not for everyone. But those that are willing to do it, you know, the pastors that are willing to allow themselves to, you know, like Paul said, be in fear and much trembling to go through persecutions, to go through these things, to suffer these things, to have their business kind of out there, you know, they're worthy of double honor. They're not worthy of having accusations just brought against them at the drop of a hat. And people that are bringing those accusations, we should be giving ear to them. My last point though, you know, these people are powerfully used. And I switched around right at the end. I'm trying to remember where I was. So you say, well, what should we do? What should we do for our pastors? How can we show them double honor? How can we respect them? How can we help them? Prayer. They need prayer. That's my last point. Okay? They're not perfect. They have problems. They're powerfully used. They're not to be put on a pedestal. They're to be shown the proper respect. And they need prayer. They need prayer. And I think people, you know, it kind of comes like a cliche sometimes. Maybe we just kind of say these things. But pastors really do need, I mean, we all need prayer. We should be praying for one for another. You know, we should be praying for each other by name, before God's throne. Praying for the needs of other people. And if you have a prayer list, you know, your pastor should be pretty close to the top of that. I mean, if he's not first, you better be a close second. I'm serious. You know, maybe your family and then your pastor's family. Your family and then, you know, the ministry. Those that are in those positions. They need prayer. Because they're putting themselves in these positions where they're open to being attacked. Where people will attack. They need prayer. It's interesting to me, and if you would, go to 2 Thessalonians 3. We'll end there. That Paul twice asked this of the Thessalonians. Right? Where he says specifically, pray for us. Right? He said in 1 Thessalonians 5 verse 25, brethren, pray for us. There's your memory verse for the week. 1 Thessalonians 5, 25. Brethren, pray for us. That's it. That's the verse. Brethren, pray for us. He said it again to the Hebrews, pray for us. For we trust we have a good conscience in all things willingly to live honestly. But then he says it again in 2 Thessalonians chapter 3 verse 1. Finally, brethren, pray for us that the word of the Lord may have free course and be glorified even as it is with you. He says pray for us. It's interesting to me that he writes to the Thessalonians two times and asks this specific request of him. I'm sure you could find it elsewhere but that specific praise, pray for us, is to the Thessalonians. It seems to me like Paul knew that Thessalonians were praying people. That they were people that loved him, that cared for him, that, you know, were concerned for his well-being and that understood that, hey, one of the best things they could do for him is to pray for him and to bring his name before God's throne. Pray for us that the word of the Lord may have free course and be glorified even as it is with you. You know, I'm not on a hair trigger to see great men of God fall. I'm not on a hair trigger to see men of God taken out of positions of leadership because through these men of God the word of God has free course because of the work that they're doing. He said pray for us that the word of God may be have free course and, look, notice verse two, that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men. Oh, you know, you think the pastors are, you know, they're just, they've got to target their back. They don't. That's what Paul said. He said there's unreasonable and wicked men that he needed to be delivered from. He didn't say let me hide out in your basement. He didn't say, you know, stick up for me. He didn't say go out there and fight them and destroy. He said just pray for me. Just pray for me that I would be, that the Lord would deliver me from these people, that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men for all men have not faith. There's people in this world that hate God, they hate the Lord, and they want to destroy anyone that is actually preaching God's word. They're unreasonable. They can't be reasoned with and they're evil. Pray for pastors who come under the attack of such people. But the Lord is faithful who establish you and keep you from evil and we have confidence in the Lord touching you that you will both do and will do the things which we command you. So, you know, that's my message this morning is that pastors are people. I think it's an important message. I think it's one we need to be reminded of as people who have pastors, as people, you know, who have been under the preaching of the word of God, who have looked to others to help make up our faith. You know, it's an important role. It's an important position. It's not just necessarily the person that is important, although there's something to be said about that. It takes a certain kind of person to be willing, one, to want to do this and two, to be willing to go through what it takes to preach the word as he ought. It's important. It's an important role. But you know what? They're going to have problems. So don't put them up on a pedestal. You know, just show them patience. Show them the proper respect. Be patient. And above all else, pray for pastors because they're people and people need prayer. Let's go ahead and close the word of prayer. Dear Lord, again, thank you for the men of God in our lives that have taught unto us the word of God down through the years, Lord. Men who are flawed. Men who are not perfect. Men who are just men. But they are men that have taken upon themselves, Lord, a calling that have stepped up to fulfill a position that needs to be filled in this world, that have determined to preach the word of God and to instruct and to teach others. Lord, I pray you'd help us to again, show them the honor that they're worthy of and would help us to be patient with such. We ask these things in Christ's name. Amen. Alright, we'll go ahead and sing one more song before we are dismissed this morning. Alright, can you please open up your hymnal? It's song number 187. Can you sing the song number 187, Jesus loves me? And then the song number 187. Jesus loves me Jesus loves me Jesus loves me Jesus loves me Jesus loves me Jesus loves me Jesus loves me Jesus loves me Jesus loves me Jesus loves me Jesus loves me Jesus loves me Jesus loves me Jesus loves me Jesus loves me Jesus loves me