- Hey everybody, this is Pastor Steven Anderson
from Faithful Word Baptist Church in Tempe, Arizona.
So about a week and a half ago,
I was on the Baptist Bias podcast.
Ken Hoeven was on as well.
Obviously there was a lot of disagreement
between myself and Ken Hoeven,
but he and a few of his followers made this video
sort of reflecting back on that conversation.
And it's amazing to me how they just managed
to get everything wrong, just to screw up every fact
and to just say all kinds of just crazy and bizarre things
just in this short video.
First of all, let me just say this.
Ken Hoeven has never preached at our church.
He keeps making that claim over and over again.
It never happened.
He visited our church one time and he sat in his chair
and listened to the sermon.
He has never preached at our church.
He would never be allowed to do so.
Anyway, that's kind of neither here nor there.
I wanna play just a portion of this video.
It's like four minutes and 24 seconds
just to show you the cognitive disconnect,
just to show you how, you know,
I don't know, is he even listening to the words
that are coming out of his mouth?
Are other people listening to the words
that are coming out of his mouth?
Because this man makes no sense, all right?
Let's go ahead and have a listen.
- The other weird claim he made was referring to
when he attacked your timeline.
And he claimed that the children of Israel
were slaves and aged up for over 450 years.
And the only way I can justify the mistake he made
is that he's counting them in slavery
from the time they first arrived in Egypt.
But that would make Joseph a slave
and second in command of all of Egypt.
I find that bizarre, don't you?
- Yeah, that would be bizarre if I had said that,
except that I never did.
This guy is just lying and making things up.
And anybody who wants to can go back and listen to the video.
Nothing like that was said.
In fact, I've never said anything like that
in my entire life, okay?
What is this guy even talking about?
The number 450 never came out of my mouth.
I never said that they were slaves the whole time.
Of course, we know that as the Bible clearly states
in Exodus 12 verse 40,
the sojourn of the children of Israel in Egypt
was 430 years.
And in fact, the next verse says that it was the exact
to the day 430 years when they left Egypt, okay?
So the sojourn of the children of Israel in Egypt
was 430 years.
And then the Bible clearly says that they were evil
and treated for 400 years.
Obviously that's because when they first got there,
things were going good.
This is all I've ever taught.
Obviously for the first 30 some years,
they were going good.
I think the 400 years is a rounded number,
whereas the 430 years is an exact number
according to the Bible.
But anyway, this guy just makes this crazy false accusation.
Hey, what do you think about that, Dr. Hoeven?
- Well, yeah, and I did some slides on that.
How long were they in Egypt?
My timeline is exactly correct.
His is wrong, okay?
Many people have, was it 430 years?
Contradictions in the Bible, here it is.
There, okay.
Oh, BV, put my slides back up there, brother.
How long were they in Egypt?
Atheists love to pick on this
and say there's a contradiction in the Bible.
Let me get the bandway over here, brother, okay.
Yeah, notice how misleading this is.
He's claiming that this is a contradiction in the Bible
between these three numbers, 215, 400, and 430.
Here's the problem with that.
The number 215 doesn't come up in the Bible, you know.
So there is no Bible verse claiming
that they were in Egypt for 215 years.
That verse doesn't exist except in Kent Hoeven's mind, okay.
So my issue is that his charts erroneously show
the children of Israel only sojourning in Egypt
for 215 years when the Bible says in Exodus 1240,
point blank, that they were there for 430.
But he's making this out like, oh, well atheists
are claiming this is a contradiction in the Bible.
No, because the number 215 is not in the Bible
about this subject.
And so, you know, again, this is just gonna be
a total straw man now about what atheists are saying
about a number that isn't even in the Bible.
- No, there's no contradiction.
Was it 215 or 400 or 430?
And he made a big deal out of that
that my timeline is wrong.
People have, this has been a question people have answered
hundreds of times for the last hundreds of years, okay?
Was it only 215?
Was it 400?
Was it 430?
There's a great article on answers in Genesis about that.
How long were they in Egypt?
It takes lots of different ingredients
to go in to make a cake, okay?
So let's look at all the different factors
in this supposed contradiction.
We know from the dates given in the Bible
how old Adam was when he was born.
Genesis chapter five, you can get my chart.
And the dates, you can simply add them up.
Again, this is a total straw, man,
'cause I never said there was a contradiction.
I'm not an atheist.
Then we know that God called Abraham.
Abram had changed his name to Abraham.
We know the date of that was about 2000 BC.
Well, he's got the slides for it, so let's go.
God called him.
So God said to Abram,
I know you're a stranger in a land that's not your,
they're gonna be,
your children are gonna be in a stranger in a land that's not
their, your seed.
And they shall afflict them for a hundred years.
Well, for the first 30 years, they weren't afflicted.
Joseph invited his family to come down and live with them.
And Joseph was the vice pharaoh.
He fed them and took care of them.
- Did everybody just hear what Ken Hoeven said?
Ken Hoeven just said,
for the first 30 years, when they got to Egypt,
they weren't afflicted.
Pay attention, cause this is gonna be important later.
He just said, for the first 30 years,
hey, Joseph was invited to be the vice pharaoh.
Everything was going great for the first 30 years.
Of course they were afflicted for the first 30 years, right?
Just wait till you hear where this conversation
eventually goes.
- And took care of him and all that stuff.
So for 30 years, they were not afflicted.
- Yeah.
- For 400 years, they were.
- That's right.
- So one verse says 430.
One verse says 400, well, right.
- That's right.
- They were in Egypt for 430 years,
but they were afflicted for 400 years.
- Yeah.
- I don't understand.
- Why anybody thinks that's a contradiction?
- They don't.
- They shall entreat the evil for 400 years.
- Right, exactly.
- And about the fourth generation.
So it says, I say this, the covenant,
the land was 430 years, okay?
And they claim it's a contradiction.
And he wants to change what people have already settled
hundreds of times.
They've done all the math on this and say, look,
they were in Egypt for 430 years,
but they were afflicted for 400.
It's not a contradiction at all.
- Nope, it isn't.
No issue.
- I don't know what he's trying to do, but--
- He's trying to do to get over it.
- They were in Egypt 430 years.
- Yeah, amen.
- They were afflicted for 430 years in Egypt.
- That's right.
- Ishmael, the son of Hagar, the Egyptian, mocked Isaac.
That starts the calendar right there--
- What the--
- For the affliction of the children of Israel.
- So a minute ago, a minute ago,
he said, well, the first 30 years were good
because Joseph's invited to be the vice pharaoh
and all of the children of Israel come down
and everything's great.
So he's making all kinds of sense.
Now all of a sudden he's claiming
that the 400 years of affliction starts with
Ishmael mocking Isaac.
Let's just be clear here.
Ishmael mocking Isaac is decades before Israel's even born,
let alone the children of Israel,
let alone the children of Israel sojourning in Egypt.
So now all of a sudden he's just backing way up in time
and he's going back to this,
they're only there for 215 years crap, okay?
So, I mean, is anybody even listening?
I mean, is anybody listening out there
to what he's actually saying?
He literally just finished saying,
well, they were in Egypt for 430 years,
but they were only evil afflicted for 400 years.
Because for the first 30 years they were doing good
and Joseph's the second in command, everything's great.
But now all of a sudden, no, no, no,
that's not what this is about at all.
Now all of a sudden the clock starts
with Abraham receiving the promise
and then 30 years later, Ishmael makes fun of Isaac.
Folks, he's contradicting himself
to the tune of 200 and some years here, okay?
But I don't know, I guess nobody's listening.
Nobody's paying attention.
And by the way, in order to make this math work,
he has to have Isaac breastfeed until he's five years old.
- For the affliction of the code of Israel.
Because apparently Abraham was an old man
when Ishmael was born.
'Cause his wife said I can't have children
marry my servant girl, Hagar, the Egyptian.
So he had a half Egyptian child, Ishmael.
Then years later had Isaac.
And Sarah was apparently still nursing Isaac
at five years old, in some countries.
- Yeah, you know, apparently,
can you show me that in the Bible?
Because I can't seem to find any of this nonsense
in my Bible that Sarah is breastfeeding a five-year-old.
What kind of weird stuff is that
to be breastfeeding a five-year-old?
It doesn't even make any sense.
A kid with a mouthful of teeth running around?
I mean, give the kid a T-bone steak.
Why would a five-year-old need to breastfeed?
I have 12 kids, folks, okay?
And the thought of breastfeeding a five-year-old
is bizarre and absurd.
I'm sure you can find some weird person
doing it in this world.
But these people who try to claim,
well, in the Bible days, you know,
they breastfed until they were seven or six or five,
whatever, it's just made up stuff, folks.
There are no historical records that could tell you
about breastfeeding practices from 4,000 years ago.
The only information from that time period
that has even survived about the culture in that region
is the Bible itself.
The evidence is the Bible itself.
There isn't some outside, you know,
historical find of a breastfeeding manual
from 4,000 years ago, my friend.
- Nurse the babies until they're four or five.
I guess save that on the grocery bill.
And so the son, Agar, was mocking him.
Genesis 21 talks about that, Galatians 4, et cetera.
The promise was 430 years before the law was given.
His argument that my time--
- And again, that's not what the Bible says.
The Bible doesn't say that the promise was given 430 years
before they left Egypt.
It actually, before the law was given,
which is when they left Egypt.
But what the Bible actually says
is that the promise was confirmed 430 years
before the law was given.
And that's because when Israel,
the person, also known as Jacob, right?
The person Israel, when he was going down into Egypt
with all of his children, all of his grandchildren,
when he's heading down into Egypt,
God appears to him in the night on the eve of entering Egypt
and confirms the promise to him.
And that is what is referred to
when it talks about the law being 430 years after that.
Because the Bible just flat out says
that the time of the sojourn of the children of Israel
in Egypt was 430 years.
You can't get around the crystal clear,
precise wording of Exodus 12, 40, and 41.
- Timeline is wrong.
My first place, I don't think I'm wrong.
I think I'm right on that.
And it's not worth fighting or splitting the church over.
- Nobody's splitting the church over anything.
- I went through the other night on my--
- You shouldn't even be allowed in church, Kent Hoeven,
because you're a fornicator.
You're living in fornication
with your third consecutive concubine, okay?
He accuses me of using an ad hominem,
which, go back and listen to the interview.
Go back and listen to the entire podcast.
I didn't use any ad hominems.
I didn't bring up his sordid life
and his serial fornication.
I didn't bring up any of that.
And then he's just like, I guess implying that I'm immoral
because he said, if you weren't a virgin
on your wedding day, then shut up.
Number one, I was a virgin on my wedding day.
Number two, I have been faithful to my wife the whole time.
But he's like implying that, well, you know,
you can't say anything about me
unless you've done those things.
First of all, even if someone had committed fornication
or adultery, they could still condemn
fornication and adultery.
Okay, just because someone has stolen something,
doesn't mean that they can never condemn stealing again.
Okay, that's absurd.
But in my case, I did not commit fornication
and I did not commit adultery.
Whereas, you know, some preachers may have had fornication
in their past or something.
Well, guess what?
They can still preach against it
because they're not doing it now, okay?
Unlike Kent Hoeven, who is living with a woman
that he's not legally married to.
For the third time in a row, he's had a parade,
a succession of concubines.
He brings it up in this video.
That's why I'm bringing it up.
He brings it up in this video,
defending it and somehow insinuating
that I'm immoral or something for condemning his debauchery.
Anyway.
- What show was that I did, brother?
The Night After, that's supposed to debate.
But many people, a lot of people Google,
how long were they in Egypt?
Oh, the atheists make a big deal out of it.
- Yeah, just Google it.
You don't need to look at what the Bible actually says
in Exodus 12 verses 40 and 41.
You just Google it.
And you know, lots of people agree with Ken Hovind,
so therefore he must be right.
- They don't want there to be a contradiction.
- Of course.
- This is my timeline he's objecting to.
And Abraham, oh, there we go.
Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, my timeline's right.
It's not gonna change it.
Okay, go ahead.
- Yeah, I agree with you, Doc.
- I agree with you, Doc.
What do you agree with?
Do you agree with him when he said
that they were in Egypt for 430 years
and they were treated well for the first 30 years
because Joseph was second in command
and things were going good and whatever.
Do you agree with that or do you agree with him
when he says no, actually the 430 years
starts hundreds of years earlier
and it's actually Ishmael mocking Isaac
and that's what starts the 400 years
and the promise made to Abraham,
that's what starts the 430 years.
Folks, is anybody even listening
because he literally just taught two diametrically opposed
ideas in this video, but his followers are just like,
you're our favorite creationists
and I agree with you, Dr. Hovind,
I just don't understand why Pastor Anderson believes
that they were slain for 450 years.
Produce evidence for any of this.
I never said that, I never would say that.
Where's the Bible verses to say any of these things?
Anyway, I could show you the rest of this video,
but that's just a sampling of the fact
that Ken Hoeven just talks and he's not listening
or comprehending the things that are coming at us about.
And apparently neither of the people that he's talking with
because he can just literally just say
that they were there for 430 and that the first 30 were good
'cause the whole family came down, all this stuff.
And then he can just turn around
and just teach the opposite a few minutes later
and just like, I agree with you.
God bless you, have a great day.