all right so today we are going to be talking with Gary Pittman the man
himself the guy that made fluoride poison tap what it is I mean he was the
insider at Occidental Chemical that really just blew the lid off of the
phosphate industry and hydrofluorosolic acid you know I haven't said that name
in so long I kind of forget how to even say it hydrofluorosolic acid is that did
I say that right mr. Pittman yes that's all right great well today we are
talking with mr. Gary Pittman mr. Pittman how you feeling today thank you
for joining us I feel okay Paul good good and and so for those of you who
don't know who he is I really encourage you to check out this film fluoride
poison on tap we made this film over the course of about three years I think and
it's it's really groundbreaking it has a lot of information that a lot of people
to have no idea about so I know there's a lot of listeners out there that that
haven't seen it and so I really do encourage you to go to framing the
world.com get a copy of fluoride poison on tap and check it out today I want to
also tell you about two books that we have on the store that mr. Pittman wrote
and this is the book phosphate fluorides toxic torts and this is just a great
book this is a book by mr. Pittman himself about the the chemical exposure
that he suffered at the hands of Occidental Chemical and of course
relentless which is his new book I really hope you guys check this out at
framing the world.com but you know mr. Pittman suffered a lot of health
problems and because of him working at this chemical plant and so I just wanted
to talk to him you know life life is fragile life is short we don't know how
much time we have left with certain people and I know mr. Pittman is you
know this might be you never know if it's gonna be the last time we talked to
him so you know I just really want to pick his brain and get him on the show
and just kind of talk about some different issues that that I haven't
discussed in a while but so mr. Pittman how how are you since you know I talked
to you years ago now how how has your health been over the the course of the
last few years well it's slowly deteriorating you know in 16 when I had
the stroke I had a stroke in 2016 April and ever since then things has been
going downhill I got to go the October the sixth up to the Cancer Center they
have to draw about a pint of blood out of me because I my blood gets too thick
and they have to draw a pine out usually to thin it up I suffer from COPD with
emphysema severe emphysema I got heart arrhythmia problems the a fib is what
caused the stroke in 2016 while I was sleeping my heart went into a field I'm
now blood thinners I take eloquence twice a day and it's just that it seems
like everything's going downhill now in course I I credit the chemical plants
with part of that we were exposed to a lot of fluoride fumes so for the outside
fumes all types of chemicals petroleum distill it's the farmers you know too
many really did list I think I listed them all in the book it took about a
half a page my health is slowly going downhill but I am getting older I'll be
67 years old in November so I guess the exposure out there has really affected
about every organ in my body plus my blood the bones I think the reason for
the blood problem is with my bones cancer doctor told me that the bones is
what makes the blood well my balls are stuck or they don't know what to do they
just make too much blood too much hemoglobin and so they have to take it
out so as far as my health goes I don't know it's just going downhill I hope I
can stick around a few more years but who knows yeah and you know for those of
you who don't know mr. Pittman he was the the he was a what was your title
supervisor at the chemical plant and so he oversaw a lot of the production there
and a lot of the the guys that you worked with on a daily business basis a
lot of those people have passed away and and are you one of the last ones left
from that plant one of the last ones that was in the lawsuit that became sick
I'm one of the last ones left a lot of my friends have passed on and some of
them that I think there's one more that hasn't passed on but he's he's very very
sick I think he's he's unable to I just don't know what's wrong with him
probably a lot of the same things that's wrong with me but some of them has most
of them has passed off yeah and you know a lot of people don't understand but big
phosphate is a huge business in Florida and they are just digging up the whole
landscape of Florida here and so can you talk about what is phosphate for those
who don't know and why it's so devastating to the state of Florida well
phosphate mine has been going on in central Florida since the late 1890s they
used to do it with shovels a long time ago but really there's only one company
down there left and that is mosaic they have bought out I am see a graco garden
a all those old plants that were down there mosaic now has the you know has
most of the mines they're very powerful and in the phosphate lobby in Florida
they they're always in the news about a new spill or whales being contaminated I
just got a call from a guy the other day down there they had somebody had built
some apartments close to a jip stack in which I couldn't believe it in 2020
somebody building a apartment complex close to a radioactive jip stack and I
think they're going to sue because a lot of people are getting ill there they
don't know where it's coming out of the water or the radioactivity they don't
know yet they're in the early stages of this suit there's some companies in
North Florida that still dig phosphate of course phosphate is used to make
phosphate fertilizer a lot of it's turned into super acid that's what I did
out there it's a black thick acid and of course it's broke down when it leaves
there in plants to where it's thinned out and used for liquid fertilizer the
p2o files what they you know what plants needs that is plant food is what it is
the problem is is it's full of fluoride it's full of radioactivity most people
don't know this that if you put it on the pastures the cows will eat the grass
that's been fertilized by the by the phosphate which has the fluoride the
radioactivity if they put it under crops which is bell peppers peas beans it up
takes into the food and that's the reason I think the cancer rate is so
high Hamilton County at one time with the Cancer Center of Florida where I
live and it's basically you know used for fertilizer phosphate is it is it was
buried a long time ago along with uranium you know during the time when
Florida was underwater another name we like to call it is bone phosphate lime
BPL and that's really you know where the goodie is the p2o five the plant food
now when you worked for that chemical plant it was called oxy or occidental
chemical correct and then has that name changed over the years and what is it
called now a few years they sold out to a group PCS or potash potash of
Saskatchewan Canada was who it was and they have since left and they have sold
out to a group named nutrient and that is who is operating the plants now oh
wow so that's changed them because when we made the film it was that other
company so now it's changed it's changed and so now people need to understand
like why why is the name keep changing so much and please explain because you
know the lawsuits are a big deal and they're they're they're just destroying
the landscape and so can you explain why they keep changing their names well I
don't think they changed their names I don't think it's the same company this
time when we done the film it was potash Saskatchewan of Canada had it PCS they
call themselves and I think PCS just you know they were kind of involved in the
lawsuit when I sued Occidental chemical PCS had just bought it from Occidental
but some of the people that joined in that lawsuit were working for PCS at
that time so they were kind of involved in the back burner of that Occidental
chemical suit well evidently they left and sold out to this company called
Nutrien that is who runs the show out there now but since then what has
happened is all of what we used to call Swanee River chemical that was the
biggest chemical plant they have disassembled that whole plant all but
the DAP granulation plant in other words it's just don't look anything like it
did at one time so they're only running Swift Creek chemical plant in Swift
Creek mine and that's the one that we filmed when you went out and we filmed
from the air the chip stacks and all that plant they are still running but
when I worked out there there was probably 1500 1600 people working out
there at that time and now probably only 200 250 yeah and so you know if you
don't know what we're talking about it's because you probably haven't seen the
film but we did drone shots of these jib stacks and these jib stacks are these
huge mounds of earth and with dugout and it contains all this toxic waste inside
of inside of these stacks of earth and it leaches out into the ground sometimes
you know hurricanes come through and washes them out and it goes into the
groundwater or it can leach out into the earth and so and so these jib stacks
have really just really just devastated the the the landscape of Florida and can
you talk about how how how that is well the jib stacks the way they start is
they actually build on top of the ground when you make phosphoric acid you add
phosphate rock sulfuric acid and water the sulfuric acid is added to digest
and digest the phosphate rock well as you digest the phosphate rock you have
to filter out the gypsum and so it goes on a table filter you you filter out the
liquid which is phosphoric acid of course it still contains some sulfuric
acid and other impurities and you save the phosphoric acid of course in the
tanks and the jip the jip cake they call it which is the remnants of the
phosphate the phosphate rock and the sulfuric acid and water is re-slurried
and sent to the jib stacks well as it goes out there of course it goes into
the little pond that they've made well then uh excavators they dig the
phosphate of the gypsum out the radioactive gypsum out and they start
stacking it around the side to make a dam well they just keep doing it and it
gets bigger and bigger and taller and taller until some of them are you know
hundreds of feet high and they are acres big and of course that phospho
gypsum contains uranium 226 radon 222 uranium 236 238 and all sort of
impurities in there from making the phosphoric acid you have a lot of
fluoride you have sulfuric acid you have all your elements iron aluminum
magnesium a lot of minor elements it's all toxic and these jip stacks are
built on top of the ground and in Florida what you have is you have top
soil you have subsoil you have some clays you keep on going down till you
get to limestone Florida's like a sponge it's like a sponge look you got
limestone under there well as this acid acidic water and toxins gradually seep
down they dissolve the limestone and a lot of times it'll form a hole at a cave
in and get into the drinking water because that goes into the Florida
aquifer and that's where I think a lot of people are being poisoned is because
the drinking water is being contaminated I know in Mosaic down in central Florida
in our plant right up here in Hamilton County I think I got pictures in my book
we even got some maybe some pictures in the film I think but it's just a toxic
soup is what I call it yeah yeah it's definitely a very interesting topic when
you look into it it's a topic that you know I was very I was not aware of until
I started making the film and it was dr. Kennedy that started explaining what
these were and then he's the one that kind of pointed me to you and that's
kind of how fluoride poison on tap came about and so I really encourage you guys
to check out that film it's free on YouTube you can check it out there or
you can purchase a DVD at framing the world calm but I wanted to play a clip
from the film just to kind of show people kind of a little history behind
the the chemical plant that you worked at so I'm gonna play this clip real
quick mr. Pittman I'm gonna have you you talk about it when Gary Pittman filed a
lawsuit against Occidental chemical company he knew what he was getting into
Occidental was a mammoth organization and no stranger to litigation it was
Occidental that had been responsible for one of the most horrendous
environmental tragedies in American history the Love Canal
president Carter declared a state of emergency today in the Love Canal area
of New York's Niagara Falls where toxic chemicals were discovered oozing from
the ground my three kids were born with birth defects and the wife's had cancer
this was a site that literally is best described orange goop toxic soup is what
it has been referred to you at 80 different chemicals it's a very bad
stuff was in these people's backyards was literally seeping into their
basements health officials are urging more families to move but that's not as
simple as it seems between the years of 1947 and 1953 the hooker chemical
corporation which is a subsidiary of Occidental chemical used the Love Canal
section of Niagara Falls as a dumping site for toxic waste today we write the
final chapter of the environmental disaster called Love Canal in doing so
we make clear that when people make a mess of our environment they should and
they will be held responsible for cleaning up their mess the EPA concluded
that Occidental dumped millions of tons of hazardous chemicals and then sold at
the property to the Niagara Falls School District for $1 in papers to be filed in
court in Buffalo this afternoon the Occidental chemical corporation will
agree to pay 129 million dollars in the end Occidental was out of pocket a total
of 200 million dollars for damages and settlements not including court costs
and the millions they spent defending themselves these kind of dangers no
longer will be tolerated by the American public the day of discarding hazardous
materials indiscriminately and haphazardly is over there must never be
in our country another Love Canal thank you very much but in reality this 200
million dollars spanking to a multi-billion dollar a year company is
far less severe than a parking ticket to the average person Occidental had a
pattern of disregard for environmental issues in the summer of 1979 the New
York Times reported that hookers plant in White Springs Florida was convicted
of polluting the air with fluoride even more damning were the copies of
corporate memorandums passed among hooker executives in which it was
revealed that hookers top echelon knew and approved of the pollution violations
finally hooker company officials admitted to accidentally poisoning local
water supplies not only at the New York location but at their Michigan and
California plants the White Springs plant the Gary Pittman worked for not
only was polluting the air with fluoride but it also dumped tons of waste on
their own property in a leaked interoffice memo obtained by an insider
at Occidental's White Springs plant reveals 25 different waste disposal
sites buried on the property this highly classified document lists the hazardous
carcinogenic highly fluoridated toxins that are all buried in the site and are
still there today Gary Pittman knew that he was about to
embark into what David versus Goliath scenario Occidental was not to be trusted
they had been known to buy and intimidate officials they provided
financial support to the campaigns of certain political candidates and owned
judges Gary had only 12 lawyers against Occidental's prestigious law firm Holland
and Knight which at the time consisted of 540 of the nation's top lawyers
however to his benefit Gary had the documents to prove his case he also had
a stellar record within the company and was known as a company man he was a
loyal and hard-working employee the last thing he had ever imagined doing was to
sue the very company that had provided him such a good life in spite of this
Gary felt as though he had no choice he was sick and couldn't work so Gary named
a price that could make him go away and Occidental accepted in the end Gary
settled out of court with Occidental but his health problems still linger the
phosphate industry is one of the biggest industries in Florida it brings in
billions of dollars each year in profits television ads and billboards often
portray strip mining as a wholesome industry that creates jobs and feeds the
world however a closer look reveals the extreme toxicity to our environment and
health all I think what you need to do is get some aerial shots of that plant
because you cannot see the devastation going on from just riding down the road
if you could get some aerial shots of that plant I could point out what's
going on what's happening you know and point out where a lot of the pollution
is going on and stuff like that what people don't realize is this is where
hydrofluorolysis acid starts because you have to mind the rock you have to make
the phosphoric acid and hydrofluorosolic acid is made from the fumes off the
phosphoric acid then it's put into the city's drinking water I worked out there
in my whole life basically and I never seen that that good a shot you don't see
this on Google Earth I mean you just see an overview and you get the idea that
those are there but yeah what you see here is you know the common person never
sees this they don't they don't really want you to see it either because then
you would know how much devastation you know there is at these plants and you
know what's so good about it is the general public's gonna get to see this
in this new film and they can you know they can decide you know like I said
that's where your hydrofluorosolic acid starts that's the way they mind it's
overburdened they take over the take the overburden off to get to the ore
basically they take a nice forest area they cut down all the trees they burn
all the stumps and they take all the topsoil off the overburden is topsoil
subsoil clays until they get to the ore this right here is just they've already
dug it all out yeah yeah they've mined this and as you can see you can see the
forest in the background and you can see the the huge chunk of land that they
have mined the phosphate lobby is very very powerful you know it's just it's a
sad situation it's devastating to the earth
this water this coffee colored water it's just hard to describe how bad it is
you know when you call it water it's not really water it's so it's so laden
with so many different chemicals and it contains many elements such as cadmium
chromium mercury nickel beryllium arsenic fluorides lots of fluorides lead
and I heard even has like it has radioactive elements it is it is
radioactive uranium 238 radium 226 it also has traces of polonium 210 a very
contaminated stuff a lot of people don't realize that this is some of the worst
contamination at a phosphoric acid chemical plant where this was all
located is was wetlands if you have a wetland you'll have a heck of a time
trying to get a permit to go into a wetland you know to do anything you know
if you want to dig a pond water they're not gonna give you a permit but somehow
these people got permits to dig up all this wetland and they claim they'll
reclaim it but but it'll never be reclaimed like it once was it's just
there's no way they will reclaim just enough land and they'll have a little
showplace so visitors and they can go show them what they've been doing yeah
we've mined this out and now this is what what we've done and you know what
they've destroyed out there you know what a 10 or 15 or 20 acre plot they've
reclaimed now they're not gonna they're not gonna reclaim it what they'll
eventually do and this is just my prediction is they'll change the name of
this place and they'll form a corporation and they'll call it
something like White Springs Phosphate and then when they finish mining out the
rock they'll bankrupt
up here on the right we're gonna have the administration offices they used to
be in a chemical plant and they moved it used to eat the pantyhose off the
women's legs it says to whom it may concern I worked at the above named
company Occidental Chemical Company White Springs Florida in 1968 and part
of 1969 our accounting department was located in the admin building which at
that time was located at the chemical plant many mornings when we employees
would get out of our vehicles women our pantyhose would dissolve off of our
legs it was explained to us that it was a chemical fallout not to worry our boss
would see that each of us girls would get one dollar to get us another pair
of pantyhose the chemicals also would eat small pit
holes and the pain on our vehicles years later they move the admin building away
from the chemical plant to out by the main route and there's several more
names here of other girls that could testify to this so there's three things
you can see from the space station and that's great pyramids of Egypt the
phospho gypsum stacks of Florida the Great Wall of China
and that's how large they are they have them in South Florida and Central
Florida that are 400 acres big it's a huge operation they dig cubic tons of
rock today what is the with the water up on up there the pond water is water they
use for the process and it's recycled the water is used over and over and it
gets stronger and stronger and more contaminated how do they contain it just
by building a dam like damn around it and that's what I was supposed to tell
you there's no liner under that stack it's right on top of the ground and it
is leaching sure it is the groundwater yeah I read somewhere about a sinkhole
that took place the reason the sinkhole developed is because the acidic water
eating away the limestone and once the limestone gives way you're in the
groundwater Wow because in Florida when you drill a
well you have to go through the last I want to get to that
when that 84 million million gallons fail through in there it contaminated
all this water and had to us like I said you know it's just a matter of time
before you know you have a sinkhole like that it's just a weak point where
there's a weak point in the cavity in the limestone is where the ground
yeah and all of them and all of them she's a massive massive operation yes
it is and if you'll see their sections in this phospho gypsum stack when the
sinkhole caved in and one of these it was one of these sections it wasn't all
of it only that one section was 87 million gallons well you can you can
multiply that times four you know that's just a lot of toxic waste to be going
into the aquifer in addition to this recycled toxic water up there in those
in those ponds those ponds you call them they're in addition to that they're
taking fresh water to of course they use a lot of fresh water because see this is
the main thing that they don't want you to know it's what they call the water
balance it just makes them nervous if you start talking about the water
balance what do they add back when they need water if it's leaching right it's
going away they have to add some fresh water to keep the process going right
the phosphate industry uses more fresh water than any other industry in the
state of Florida you know when that sometimes they have to release water out
of those toxic ponds and what do they put it they put it in the creeks and it
runs into the swanee River now what they do to it is lime it to bring the pH up
so it don't kill the fish immediately the swanee River they claim is a
pristine waterway but if you ask the Fresh and Game Water Commission in
Florida they'll tell you not to eat over one fish out of that river a month
because of lead and mercury and chromium and cadmium they won't tell you that
but that's why yeah that's why this is just a lot of the documentation I've
reached through the years what really caught my eye was like we had talked
about earlier the 1972 through 1979 misrepresent environmental data and they
charged him five hundred seventy five thousand dollars for emitting ten times
the amount of floor out allowed below and I was working there when that was
going on and the fumes were just unbelievable it pit the the glass on
your windshield make them so foggy would etch the glass just having your
car parked out there I mean back in the 60s you know they I mean even earlier
they realized that those fumes were very very toxic the phosphate company pretty
much polices themselves they have their own crews do their stack testing and
all the other environmental things and you know that's kind of like the Fox
watching the hen house and I have been involved where they would go up to test
a stack and come down and tell me so something's wrong this bag it's gonna
fail you know so you look around find a problem straighten it out and say okay
boys y'all go up there and test now I have also been at the point where we
couldn't find what was wrong and they were doing the test and we would just go
and open a blind in the fume ducts to allow more fresh air to rush in so it
would dilute the emissions
in this past I'd say six months has been four people that I know I grew up with
they were younger than me like 52 all that I do honestly believe it has
something to do with the phosphate chemical plants out there I would
imagine you've seen some injured employees I've seen people burn I've
seen people blown up I saw a man killed and he was gonna wail it on a rotary
drum filter somebody had washed it with a solution of sulfuric acid and pond
water found out later the guy had struck an arc to weld on that thing and
it exploded and it killed him messed up his friend things it was helping yes a
very hazardous work environment when you digest phosphate rock with sulfuric acid
that's what you're gonna give all hydrogen fluoride and silicon tetrafluoride
now even at that strength it'll eat up concrete asphalt stainless steel even
the fume ducts after a while which is made out of fiberglass very corrosive
the most corrosive acid known to man used to etch glass that's used for a lot
of things one of the things that you use for is to floor date drinking water who
in the world would want to drink water with this stuff in it I do know that
chemical at that time it was a it was a subsidiary of Occidental Chemical
Company it was hooker now I know when during the years I worked for
Occidental a lot of times my paychecks had hooker on they'd go hooker chemical
company sometimes Occidental Chemical Company but hooker is actually the ones
in the love canal what they did is they buried a bunch of toxic drums up there
and kind of forgot about it the school system up there decided they were going
to buy I wanted to buy this land to build a school and they were going to be
a houses there and whatever and so Occidental or hooker you know they were
subset hooker was a subsidiary but Occidental was a parent company anyway
they sold the land to the school system for $1 and so they went on about their
business well they decided to start building schools and houses on this land
well after a while people started noticing this stuff oozing out of the
ground some of them had swimming pools and it started burning the children
making people sick leukemia such as that well state of New York turned around and
sued hooker and Occidental and wound up getting a big settlement out of them
because they had buried these toxins up there years ago and I don't think they
told them about it but anyway it was a big deal it was the biggest settlement
in in a chemical settlement in history at the time and that's I think we got
more about it in the film but that's the that's the gist of it yeah and I really
love that scene in and for that scene I did a ton of research and I actually
purchased a lot of archive footage that had never been seen in in that I've
never seen I had to contact these archive places and they you you pay by
the second and then they send you the footage that you can't even view it
before you buy it and I was so happy with what I got because you kind of take
a chance on doing that but I got back these awesome news clips and you saw
them right there in the film but yeah that was a huge deal right there in
Niagara Falls and in that hooker company you know transitioned into
Occidental Chemical which is the plant you worked at now you didn't work at the
one in Niagara Falls you worked at the one in in White Springs there yeah
Hamilton County West Springs floor yeah so can you can you explain like because
did you know about that lawsuit and what that happened back when you were working
there or was that something you figured out later while you're doing your reach
after when you were doing your research no I was working at Occidental in
Westprings when this lawsuit was started oh and you know we knew about it
and we also kind of knew how to cut me done business too but anyway no we knew
about it and of course back then you know we were all young and that was it
was either before the time or about the same time that OSHA was being formed and
also the EPA you know this was back in early 70s and so we didn't know anything
about any of the phosphate dangers because it wasn't any internet the only
books on it was the phosphate industry had written so they you know they're not
going to incriminate themselves and so they played the part that everything
coming out of the stacks at White Springs you know you'd see the smoke
coming out but they used to say the favorite saying they used to say was
it's harmless steam and vapors it's what they said and many people don't
know this but the state doesn't police those chemical plants in Florida a lot
of the other state they police themselves they go up and they stack
test and whatever numbers they give to the state that's what the state takes
so we knew better we knew ammonia DAP would you know stop you from breathing
we knew fluoride was bad because we'll put it this way we knew the fumes
coming off the phosphor gases was bad we knew you couldn't breathe it we also
knew the sulfur dioxide would paralyze your lungs we knew that but we tried to
stay away from it I was a big operation out there at one time we were actually
making the fall taken phosphate rock we were making granulated fertilizer we
were making animal food supplement polyphosphate we were making super acid
from phosphoric acid we were sending the super acid to Russia the Soviet Union at
the time and in return we would get what it was ammonia is what we would get
from it was a border agreement and the arm and hammer had worked up with the
Russians but it was a big outfit out there and like I said 12 1500 people
worked there we made acid like I said all the granulated fertilizer it's just
a big operation and you have to melt sulfur them to make sulfuric acid you
got to have sulfuric acid to make phosphor gas but the of course burning
the sulfur and sulfur plants that gives off SO2 so when you went to work out
there you're exposed daily to the dust radioactive dust sulfur the outside
phosphoric acid fumes which contains blue cools of fluoride so you were in
that work environment eight twelve hours a day six seven days a week I think back
then we worked seven days a week and get all four days a month I think and a lot
of times you'd have to go into vessels to clean them out and we didn't have any
safety equipment we didn't have any I think they hire all that done now by
pressure cleaners but in the old days it was all done kind of by hand and by
the people they had it just was a bad environment to work in at that time I
think gradually through the years they've gotten a little better but I
don't see I imagine the people still working there it's getting some
exposures I think mosaic does test people down there but I just don't know
I don't know for sure yeah because you know when you got the job and we
explained this in the movie it was kind of like you know your dream job you're
making good money you're able to you know raise your family right and and so
I guess my question would be is like when did you start realizing that oh
maybe this isn't the dream job of the century maybe this is hurting my health
when did when did that kind of become a thought that you had well to tell you
the truth I think we knew it I think most people when they're young I think
they think they're kind of bulletproof to a point because you know you don't
think you're ever gonna die you know when you're young you think differently
and you do the older you get the more melody you get and the more older you
get you know that sooner or later you know it gets more evidence you're gonna
die but saying that I think basically it all came out I was area supervisor over
several plants out there and the government had started to take a lot of
interest in that stuff and they saw they passed a law and I think it was where
every chemical you had at a chemical plant or anywhere it didn't matter
where it was at you had to have what they call an MSDS or a material safety
data sheet anybody had the right that was working at a place to go and look
and see what they were working with phosphoric acid sulfuric acid or it just
says some kind of oil you put in a pump we had to have an MSDS on it I'm
super material safety data sheet it was my job at the time to take every
chemical that we had in those plants and to make a material safety data sheet or
or obtain one from the vendor or whoever we had bought the stuff from or if we
were making it it was our job I had to put that in a book and then when
somebody come in and says you know I'm working with this sulfuric acid or there
I'm working with this limestone rock today I want to see a material safety
data sheet on it to see what it may do to my health that's when I knew when I
was putting that together because some of the stuff we were working with a lot
of was cancer causing a lot of it you know we already knew it burned you you
know common sense told us about a lot of but the fumes it gave off we did we
didn't really have a real good handle on what all was in the chemicals we were
working with that's when I knew then because I was starting at that time to
go downhill that's when I started to suspect well God I'm breathing this
stuff I must exposed every day I've been exposed for 20 years no wonder I'm
having these problems and the more talk to other people they were having some of
the same problems and those guys that you mentioned earlier that died a lot of
those guys have been out there a long time too and exposed to some of the same
same chemicals and of course you can't forget the radioactivity you know you
know you go in and being exposed to that every day you know and that's something
else was in the materials safety data sheets the radioactivity and what it
could do to you cancer was the big C was a lot of things you'd see here and
there and a lot of people out there has died of cancer all kinds of cancer lung
brain stomach pancreas you know just different cancers different parts of the
body bone I have one mechanic died of bone cancer it was in the suit I think
I've got his name in the book and out of the bone cancer but that's when I
started to know is when I started really know is when I started to put together
those material safety data sheets and that was probably somewhere around 1990
19 around 1990 it might have been 89 might have been 1991 but somewhere
around 1990 yeah and you won a class-action lawsuit against
Occidental Chemical and in that lawsuit and if you don't want to talk about I
understand but in that lawsuit weren't you not supposed to talk about any of
the the problems that you're facing publicly and I guess the question is why
are you talking about them today well I never did see see anything on that
that's what I was told I never did see anything or sign anything that I remember
main thing that I was told is I could not give out the information on how much
money I got Oh what they told me and to tell you the truth I don't think I even
signed but I've honored that because you know I remember that very very clear
that they said I couldn't couldn't tell anybody how much money I received from
the lawsuit but I don't remember any signing anything about talking about the
industry okay yeah and they probably just don't want you to say how much
money you made because they didn't want the others in the lawsuit to get that
same amount probably I just don't think because you know they're not going to
admit any guilt anyway yeah no in these these type of suits you know I think I
did sign an agreement that said that I wouldn't talk about the money I got and
I think they put in there they would not be admit any guilt you know which is
standard which is standard in this type of thing yeah the only way the only way
we could have won what we did we had a settlement we did not win anything we
had a settlement it was a draw really they paid me so much if I'd go away okay
the matter if we just took them into the courthouse and proved they had done all
this then that would have been a win but you have to what you have to say is you
have to look at it several different ways did I win I don't know if I won or
not but I know they paid me to go away so yeah yeah and you know you got to do
what's best for your family and you know yeah so I'm sure that was a super hard
decision because I know others were involved in that lawsuit so and I know
you know you had a lot of friends that were involved in that lawsuit as well so
I did you know the thing about it was we all talked about it and everybody had to
do what they felt was right for them and the thing about it was is the best thing
you can do in a situation like as listen to your attorneys and my attorney advised
me to settle and so you could fight on if you want to fight these people they've
got millions and millions and millions of dollars to fight you with they can
they can fight you till hell freezes over and they can draw it out for years
and years and as attorney fees rack up and rack up and rack up and so by the
time even if you did win you wouldn't have won as much as you won just by
settling exactly I didn't want the lawyers advised me to do because I knew
myself I mean I agree with the lawyers I knew at the time because I've been
fighting this thing seven years people's got to realize this didn't happen you
know in a day or two this this thing happened for you know a period of over
seven years we fought this thing you got that you just got to sit a minute and
think about that you're you're sitting here pouring your heart and soul what
little bit you got left because you weak already and you don't feel like fighting
start with but you're pouring everything you got into something because you
believe and you know it to be true now proving something and knowing it to be
true something else especially when you're fighting somebody that's worth
billions of dollars oxygen chemical is uh at that time I think was one of the
third largest corporations in the world so you're not you're not screwing around
with some mom-and-pop business man here you know they got they got they got
chemical plants all over the world so to even go up against somebody like that
you got to have a you got to be made out of something kind of special because I'm
gonna tell you something you know I was I was threatened I was like they told
people not to even talk to me they'll try to okay that was the first social
distance and that I ever experienced because that's what it told don't talk
to that man don't talk to him you see somebody in town to speak to him it
turned her head and walk away because they didn't want to have nothing to do
with you that's the first social distance but uh but you know you just
have to put yourself in my place or in the other people's places heck you were
you were fighting a battle and it was every day for seven years hell of a
something I think about it sometime I just wonder how the hell I've done what
I've done and for how long and put you know your family goes through that it's
just just bad yeah and I know I remember you telling me about this you know when
you were settling that didn't they say like write down the number that will
make you go away and you wrote down a number is that what happened or am I
thinking of something else that's exactly what happened we had gone we'd
went to several mediations and every time we go to mediations you know they
they were they didn't really want to mediate they'd offer you three or four
thousand dollars five thousand on just something to just something to say that
they had been there because the judge they had ordered they had ordered
mediation they had to go but they didn't have to to offer much so basically in
the end that's what happened is you know I didn't expect him to do anything
but so I went to mediation and I just know a guy come down there and he's a
young guy I remember he was driving a little little sports car because I was
standing out front we had waiting on him you know and I remember you know come up
in his little sports car and come in he was a young fella I just remember we
went in and I didn't really care you know I was willing to go right on to
trial if the lawyer would go with me and he just come in and we got talking he
just he just asked me so how much how much will it take for you to go away
that's exactly what he said there was a yellow legal pad sitting on top of the
table I was sitting there in my workers comp lawyer was sitting over there on
the other side and I just took a piece of that paper no I believe I just pulled
the whole pad over and I just wrote a number down and thought it over to him
I just figured you know what nothing happened anyway like the other five or
six times I'd been to mediation over the years and he looked at it and he just
told me so we can do that I said well we can do that then let's do it yeah that's
what happened I showed Dorothy the pad she shook her head you know so that was
the starting of the end but you know it you know people think well you know it
you still have to go you still have to go through a lot of motions before you
get you know get some money and you know the money was one thing you know I had
to take care of my family and all but the damage was done yeah no the money is
not gonna bring your health back it's not it's not gonna give you more time
with your grandchildren and your children no it's not it's not gonna do
that and it's not gonna make it to where you can breathe again yeah so you know
if I had to go with again you know I don't probably look for another line of
work but and they do they still pay the most in this county and mostly down
there you look down there it's good money those guys down there a lot of
them making eighty ninety thousand dollars a year you know welding you
know mechanics electricians the job I had at the time out there now pays about
one hundred and thirty thousand dollars a year and so back then I think that was
way back in the late 80s 90s I think I was making about 50 something but now
it'd be about a hundred and thirty that's what I found out here the other
day a boy told me that's what his supervisor made so you know that's good
money you take care of your family have a few things you need save a little bit
you know and everything else around here or anywhere around here wasn't half that
yeah and it's not it's not extremely hard job physically demanding right no
it's all automated you know you go around you breathe the fumes and you
expose two different things that's why they paste it good but uh and it's
gotten easier through the years things is more autumn automated network was in
the old days when I was out there and I think since the lawsuit I think they're
on their toes out there and I think they scrub the fumes better I think they
furnished the PPE I think everything is a lot lot probably a hundred percent
better than it was when I worked out there but I think the lawsuit and I've
had people tell me this they said there's one damn scrubber they make
sure right and that's the one at the plan where I work
Wow because I reckon the state I reckon the state kind of keeps out on that
certain scrub but uh but back in the old days you know we run we run days
scrubber what name run you know it just you know it's hard to believe that goes
that that went on but it did and you got to think back to the early 70s you know
how long goes that man almost 50 years yeah 50 years now yeah yeah well so I
did want to talk about these gypsum stacks a little bit because you know a
lot of times these companies go out of business they you know they dig up all
the ground they go out of business and they just leave these huge jib stacks on
the landscape of Florida and then they leak they cause all this environmental
pollution and no one's held liable for that can you can you talk about that
that point well usually what they do there's one down now I'm trying to
think of the name of it and this eludes me right now but there's one down there
in central Florida right now that a company did bankrupt and leave and of
course it becomes the property of the county it's in I think this is in the
want to say Polk County what I want to say okay I believe so and I think we
talked about it in the film the one you're talking about I'm pretty sure we
talked about it and anyway but what what happens is and it may happen here
you know they once the company leaves and you know it's according to how they
leave I mean just like PC Occidental sold a PCS PCS so to nutrient okay well
just say nutrient runs it I know that they're running out of rock I knew that
because they were running out of rock when I lived in 93 so what they're
mining now is probably a little bit better than railroad ballast in other
words ain't nothing to it probably the p2o5 is low the insoluble as the sand
is probably high I don't even really see how they making possible or cast it out
of it but they probably are but it's probably low grade but what I'm saying
is they're gonna run out unless they can find more rock in the adjoining
counties in which I don't think they would I think Occidental would have done
that but what I'm saying if they if they leave usually what they're gonna do is
they're gonna probably bankrupt or or either if they just leave just say they
shut the gates and they leave those stacks have to be tended to and if they
are not you know they gonna it's gonna rain they gonna run over or like you
said a hurricane comes through and they breach it a dam somewhere it's gonna
run into a creek it's gonna run into the rivers gonna continue to leach into the
groundwater I don't know we just have to wait and see what they do here I know
and like I said in central Florida mosaic they have big bunches I mean that
there's a pile of stacks down there I mean we got some nice ones here too
probably one two three four I think we got five nice big ones but down there
it's just and where's down there mr. Pittman central Florida down there and
that's what can yeah that's where the big mines are right all in central
that's what that's what they call bone red and that's where it all started
years ago this up here or I work for the last that mine started in 64 64 65 and
our mind but we had to it one time Swanee River mine and Swift Creek mine
but uh like I said they've been going down there since 1800 but really go
and strong since the 20s is when they started getting in all the what I would
call the the processes that we still use today were started back in those days
even though they're more automated now and even though the equipment's better
the processes are about the same you still add sulfuric acid phosphate rock
water and you know that ain't never gonna change yeah wow and and do you
know of any other insiders that are out there that have talked about this is
there any others I'm okay Paul you know those guys down in central Florida you
know all that's been down there a long time and there is very few people that I
know of there's one old man down there and if he's still living he may be dead
now when I say old man hiring a pot calling killed but yeah there's a man
that I'm gonna say it that way you think we all think we're you know still young
but there's a man down there probably about my a little older and he he was
talking a little bit to a guy because a guy called me I get phone calls from
down there a good bit and you know and he was telling me about this guy he had
learned a lot from but I don't know if he talks to just people one-on-one now
I know there's a lot of that goes on but as far as talking to somebody like say
you or somebody you know that's gonna make a movie or somebody's gonna and I
don't think nobody's written a book I think as far as I know I'm the first one
or only one who's written a book about the industry I just don't think there
is all right or I would know yeah you know it's kind of funny but I guess
people don't like to talk much I don't know well is it kind of like a good boy
a good old boys club like it's it seems like it's more like they keep it in the
family and stuff it is to a point you know you work out there you're making
good money most of the I'd say the majority of the people people working
out there by their bullshit they think those fumes are steam and harmless
vapors they know better but at the same time they're working out there and they
want to be cooperative with the company you know they want to keep those jobs so
if the company tells them the water is alright to drink and I'll tell you when
I was in the plan up there this is for our layer the water was so bad in the
plant where I was it uh you couldn't hardly drink it and I told the guys and
it kept eating up the water found the piping in the water found so I told the
guys I said I tell you what I'm gonna do I'm gonna get a reverse osmosis you
needed up here to put on that thing so I did and uh I remember they were
dropping one day and a manager come down from the office and he come down here
and wanted to know if him boys had any complaints a lot of times they'd come
down like that you know just a first show the one old boy told him say yeah
wish we had some decent water to drink these that ain't nothing wrong with that
water he went over there and took him a slip out the fan you know he drinks what
a sip out of there every team here so the boys said well it's been eaten up
with the water fans he said well it's and uh talking about me put a reverse
osmosis on there and the guy said well can you honestly tell me that this water
is safe to drink and I'm gonna tell you have to watch people in the words they
use it don't matter if it's politics or if it's something like that you know
this is what he said I'll never forget it he said this water is biologically safe
biologically safe and I was thinking my almost left you know I heard him say it almost left and
I said you know I'm thinking to myself you know you don't know how much fluoride's in it you don't
know how many talks you don't know they haven't analyzed but uh you know so that you know if he
said yeah it was safe to drink old boys up there a lot of them you know and I'm not saying people
out there stupid but they've some people out there now don't believe lord agrees and I'm just saying
you know that anybody that's worked out there that's got any kind of sense knows that that
environment is not good they know that environment you know all you got to do is breathe a little bit
and do a little reading and nowadays there's no excuse I mean you got internet you've got a book
you got anything you want to have on it but back in those days you didn't have anything
you had to go by hearsay or just use your brain yeah so well White Springs Florida you know where
this company is located that's a tiny town and do you know the population of White Springs
probably about seven eight hundred yeah so it's just a is it is it even a town yeah it's a little
small town it's incorporated it's seven eight hundred people there's three towns in Hamilton
County how many county ain't got twelve thousand people in where I live and so you got about
seven eight hundred in White Springs that's on the south end of the county and Jennings where
and Jennings where you went to we made part of the film up there that's about
seven eight nine hundred people on the north end and then you got the county seat in the middle
which is Jasper and it's probably about and might be three four thousand nine that that would be
stretching yeah so what four what five thousand living in the cities but like I said on the north
and south end you got eight nine hundred south end which phosphate that's where your phosphate
is down there about nine hundred eight nine hundred well I noticed that you were you put
your house on the market did did that ever sell it doesn't look like I think you're still living
there right yeah I decided to stay here I don't know you know I'm too old to move around now
yeah moving's not fun the movement's not fun at all and uh you know all the
kids and all they live in here they love the swimming pool and all that stuff the grandkids
and all and I told glory I don't know where we'd go yeah you know when I was younger I always
wanted to retire and move to the islands down there and uh it down there around virgin islands
down in that area but you know changed my mind on that I kind of want to stay where there's a
few doctors and some hospitals of course they have all that down there but you know it all
it all be new yeah and it well family's important you want to be next to your grandkids you don't
know how long you have exactly how many grandkids do you have now let's see I have uh three four
five I have six right now wow I have six that's awesome yeah well um make sure you tell your wife
I said hi I really appreciate you coming on the show I want to have you back on in a couple weeks
to talk more about just this kind of stuff and maybe play a little bit more clips on the movie
I want to promote the movie a little bit more and you know I I really just a good movie it's
good movie there's some unbelievable footage in that movie I really I really I watched it again
the other night I was in there and I watched it me and my wife did I said and those uh drone
shots were beautiful yeah I I really love how that film came came out obviously I I would probably
change a few things looking back on it I recently uh to get to prepare for this interview I watched
about a 20 minute clip of the movie and I was seeing a few things I was like oh I would change
that I would change that but you know what it is a very good film and you know it took a lot of
research a lot of that the material that you see in that film is found nowhere I I dug through the
archives for months on end with your help uh locating different uh things you know so I I I
really take a lot of um pride in that film just because of the amount of time and effort and uh
just how groundbreaking it was and so I really appreciate your part in it I appreciate your
family there your your hospitality and everything you've uh done for our family you're you're just
a real great guy and I'm so glad you're still with us here and uh what what's some closing thoughts
mr Pittman uh what what do you kind of want to leave people with before we take off here today
well it's like I said in my book I you know I'm not a writer I wrote that book and uh
and I mean I'm not a writer but what I wanted people to realize all these young people especially
that's going out here getting jobs especially if they're going into a place that you think
may be harmful chemicals may be it don't have to be a chemical plant it can be anywhere just
remember that uh usually if you can smell the stuff you're being exposed and if you touch it
of course you've been exposed you just want to be careful because a lot of this stuff is going to
cause permanent injury to your organs to your lungs heart kidneys liver and uh you know the
the money is not worth it in the long run this life is short to start with and uh you know you
can find something else to do or at least you know if you want to do that have on your protective
equipment something that's going to protect you from it just get educated on what you're dealing
with that's that's the main thing that I wrote the book for and I've been fighting this stuff
I reckon since 1993 be what's that 27 years of trying to fight this fluoridation thing
the fluoride and uh hopefully we've done a little bit of good for
awesome well again Mr Pittman thank you so much for coming on the program I really appreciate
your time and uh your uh just your willingness to just talk about these saints freely again guys I
really hope you guys check out these two books Toxic Torts by Gary Pittman and his new book
Relentless um you know what we should I'm gonna get you back on the show soon Mr Pittman because
I I do want to talk about a little bit of behind the scenes on these books kind of what made you
write them and um a little bit deeper on these books so we'll do that sometime in the future
if you don't mind I I appreciate it um but uh yeah guys that was our show today thank you so
much for tuning in to today's program make sure you go out there and support us at framingtheworld.com
get these books get this movie fluoride poison on tap it's a great film you can share it with
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you have a good day and God bless