Alright guys, well we should have a pretty interesting live stream today.
We are going to be talking with Dr. Chuck Baldwin on the program.
He is the pastor at Liberty Fellowship Church, and you can find out more information on him
at ChuckBaldwinLive.com.
But yeah, it should be a pretty interesting live stream.
We're talking about the Third Temple, and that's always a really interesting topic for
a lot of people, a counterfeit temple that's coming in the near future, or in the distant
future, whatever you think it is.
But yeah, I'm interested, I'm curious on what he believes on this issue, because I'm not
quite sure what he believes.
I did listen to his sermon on a counterfeit temple, and that was very good.
Back in 2007 he preached that.
I definitely encourage you to check that sermon out.
But before we get too far into today's episode, I wanted to play you a little clip that I
made on a new project that I'm trying to do.
So let's watch this clip, and we'll come back.
So right behind me I have a ton of different hard drives from the 10 different films I've
done, plus all the conferences and just interviews that I've shot with people over the years.
And a lot of this footage, I would say more than half of it, has never been seen.
And so what I want to do is release every Wednesday some interview or some segment that's
never been seen, and I want to call it Way Back Wednesday.
And so this is an idea that came to me, and I think it's just an awesome idea.
But what I'm going to have to do is hire an editor to help me do this.
And so what we're trying to do is raise $300 for each episode so I can pay an editor to
edit an interview, a full interview, or a full segment.
And this is all going to be fan based.
So you're saying, well what's going to be released?
Well if you donate to this project called Way Back Wednesday, and we'll put the link
in the description of this video, you'll be able to choose what interview you want
released or what different segment you want released.
And so if you donate $300, of course you'll be able to choose whatever interview you want.
And I'm going to try to give you guys what you want, anything you want.
And so what I'm going to do is, if you donate $300, I'm going to not only let you choose
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So if you guys like that idea and you want to support that idea, please donate to this
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I think it's a great way to get this material out there.
I think this live stream is just, it's a great mode to kind of present it and then just get
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So it's up to you guys whether you want this to become a reality.
Way back Wednesday I think is a great idea.
And so if you want to do it, just donate.
And you say, well oh I can't donate the whole $300.
Just donate $50.
And just donate $50 and say, hey I want to do this episode.
I can't guarantee that that will be done, but what I'll do is I'll put you on like a
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But I think it's a cool idea.
I hope you think it's a cool idea.
I hope you partner with me in getting some of this footage out there because I have awesome
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Mike Adams, stuff that has never been seen before.
And so I mean the list goes on and on.
Honestly I have like 100 interviews we could choose from back there on the shelf.
So thank you guys for your support of course.
And I really hope you know some of you guys make this, help me make this a reality.
So I appreciate it guys and God bless.
Alright guys well you know I hope you guys support us on that idea.
It would be awesome to get a Way Back Wednesday episode every week.
So if you like that idea make sure to donate to this new project that we have going on.
But yeah so let's get Chuck Balda on the line here in a little bit.
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do appreciate everyone's support on Patreon.
And so we're going to be talking about the Third Temple, guys.
Let's get right into it with Dr. Chuck Baldwin.
Mr. Baldwin, how are you doing today, sir?
I'm well.
Is this Paul?
Yes, this is.
All right.
I watched an interview you did on your YouTube channel called A Counterfeit Temple, A Counterfeit
Israel back in 2017.
And it was an awesome sermon.
You really nailed it on The Counterfeit Israel.
I didn't really understand your point of view, though.
And I know I should have done more research and I plan on watching more videos of your
Israel series and stuff, but do you believe that there will be a third temple someday?
Do I believe that there's going to be a third Jewish temple?
Yes.
Not scripturally, no.
Not biblically.
There is no prophecy in the scripture that foretells a third Jewish temple.
That is a myth perpetrated by Christian Zionist theology today.
But no, there will not be, now will the pseudo nation of Israel be able to pull off the construction
of a counterfeit Jewish temple and call it the third Jewish temple?
That would yet to be seen.
I personally doubt it.
From a biblical perspective, Christians should not look for a third Jewish temple to be built
whatsoever.
Yeah, and I would definitely agree with that.
But it does seem like Christian Zionists are pushing towards that third temple.
However, when you talk to Jews, they don't want a third temple, except for the very orthodox
Jews.
They obviously do want to bring in that third temple.
Why does making or building a third temple make no sense?
Well, it makes no sense because it's contrary to the plain teaching of the New Testament.
And this is why, Paul, this is why I took several years to put together a package of
three sets of messages totaling 29 altogether.
I call it the Israel package.
And in those 29 messages, which I preached over a period of at least three to four years,
because I had to deal very gently and slowly with this topic, because so many people are
propagandized, as I was, with Christian Zionism, and they don't understand this issue.
So I took my time to go through it, and we have that package put together now, and people
can order those.
In fact, many, many, many thousands of people are ordering the package, and I'm thankful
for that because we're getting the word out.
But the old, skull-filled view of Christian Zionism and Israel-based biblical prophecy
is the predicate for this false understanding.
I mean, when you go back and read the great Bible teachers and theologians previous to
the late 19th century and early 20th century, none of them talk about a third Jewish temple.
None of them talk about a restored Jewish nation, per se.
I would even go so far as to say that the nation of Israel, the state of Israel that
exists today, that was created in 1948, is also a counterfeit Israel.
It is not in any shape, manner, or form the Israel of the Bible.
It's not a fulfillment of prophecy by any stretch.
And I find it very interesting that you mentioned Orthodox Jews a minute ago.
There are literally thousands and thousands of Orthodox Jews in the United States and
in Israel that vehemently oppose the Zionist state of Israel, and they join Palestinian
protesters constantly in opposition to the Zionist state, etc., and they believe from
a strict Old Testament Jewish tradition that there can be no nation of Israel restored
until the Messiah returns.
And of course, they're in blindness because the Messiah already came and they crucified
him.
But that's their theology.
The point is that Orthodox Jews are vehemently opposed to the Zionist state of Israel that
exists, and all true Christians should be opposed to the Zionist state of Israel because
it is antithetical to everything that the Bible teaches relative to God's fulfillment
of His promise to Abraham in Christ and the promises of Abraham being passed to we in
the church, in which there is neither Jew nor Gentile, but we're all one in Christ.
Yeah.
So when the Bible talks about, in Matthew 24, the second temple being destroyed, can
you talk about that?
Oh, boy.
I got a whole message on that.
It's in set two of the Israel package.
I call it the destruction of Jerusalem.
It might be the most powerful message God ever gave me to preach.
I poured many, many months of study into that subject before I preached that message, and
that's another misconception of the Christian Zionists, is they completely misinterpret
Matthew 24.
They believe Matthew 24 is a prophecy relative to the second coming of Christ, and it's not.
It's a direct prophecy to the destruction of Jerusalem that took place in 70 AD.
There are many prophecies in the Old and New Testaments that deal with the destruction
of Jerusalem, and if you do not understand the importance of the destruction of Jerusalem
in the economy of God relative to the Church, there's so many passages of the New Testament
that you will never understand, and Matthew 24 is one of those.
That was a prediction of Jerusalem's destruction.
It was a very detailed prophecy, and in my message, I go into the details of that prophecy,
and I show how that every minute point that Jesus described in the prophecy of Matthew
24 was fulfilled in the destruction of Jerusalem, and so that is a misconception that has spawned
so much misinterpretation of Scripture in general, and especially in prophecy, and again,
I would encourage people to go back and read the commentaries before the 20th century.
You know, read the commentaries of Matthew Henry and John Gill and Albert Barnes and
Adam Clark and Jamison Fawson Brown, and just keep going on back, and they all recognize
the prophecies of the New Testament, such as Matthew 24 being directed to the destruction
of Jerusalem.
So if you don't understand that, then you're going to misinterpret just about every passage
of Scripture that deals with prophecy is going to be misunderstood if you do not understand
the importance of the destruction of Jerusalem, because this was designed by God to be as
important a sign to the church as just about any other major doctrine of the New Testament.
To show you how important the destruction of Jerusalem was in the eyes of God, when
John the Baptist, and I have a message on this too, when John the Baptist came preaching
about the advent of Christ, and the great forerunner of our Lord, in his prophecies
about Christ, he included a prophecy about the destruction of Jerusalem.
Now, you know, Paul, stop and think about this.
We're talking about the man who is sent by God to be the forerunner of Christ.
He is announcing the advent of the Lord Jesus Christ, the Messiah of Israel, the Savior
of the world, and in the process of his prophesying of Christ's first coming, he prophesies of
Jerusalem's destruction.
Just let that sink in for a minute.
So from that point onward, you have the prophecies of John the Baptist, you have the prophecies
of Jesus, then you have the prophecies of the Apostle Paul, the Apostle James, and so
many of the New Testament writers that talk about the destruction of Jerusalem.
Why so much attention given to the destruction of Jerusalem?
By the way, a topic that Christians today, the evangelical community today at large,
has totally ignored.
Bible teachers don't talk about it.
In fact, if you try to bring it up, they look at you like you're from Mars, and they don't
even understand the significance of the destruction of Jerusalem.
This was actually the final part of Christ's first advent.
The final part of Christ's first advent was setting aside the Mosaic law, the old covenant,
and replacing it with, if you want to say replacing, actually I think the word fulfillment
is a better word, fulfilling it with the new covenant in Christ, which has fulfilled
the Abrahamic covenant and made us all one in Christ.
The Abrahamic covenant, Genesis chapter 12, is not fulfilled in this atheist Zionist state
of Christ-rejecting people that we call Israel in 2020.
That is not the fulfillment of the Abrahamic promise.
Abrahamic promise, according to Galatians chapter 3 verse 16, very clearly, very specifically
says was fulfilled in the person of Jesus Christ.
And we who are one in Christ, by faith, are the new Israel.
And so the destruction of Israel was the great sign to the church that the old covenant had
been annulled, had been abolished, those are the words that the Bible uses, and that the
church, the body of Christ, where we are all one in Christ, neither Jew nor Gentile, the
new covenant of God was now in full force.
And that should be the focus of the church.
The old Jewish worship, the ceremonies, the feast days, the commandments, etc., etc.,
are no longer germane and relevant to the church.
And this was all accomplished by the destruction of Jerusalem, because even though the early
church was comprised of mostly Hebrew Christians, they still had this lifelong tradition of
holding on to the Jewish form of worship.
Obviously, that had to be broken.
And God did that dramatically in a very unmistakable fashion.
And the church all at the time and following understood the significance of that event
and what impact it had upon the church.
So again, I'm trying to show you that John the Baptist came, even before Jesus presented
himself as Messiah and Savior, John the Baptist foretold his appearance.
And when he did, he foretold the destruction of Jerusalem.
And Jesus continued that prophecy.
The other New Testament writers continued that prophecy.
They were all pointing to the same thing, the destruction of Jerusalem.
So when you look at the great events surrounding the first advent of Christ, you have the appearance
of John the Baptist, you have the virgin birth, you have his sinless life and his miracles,
you have his death on the cross, you have his burial, his resurrection from the dead,
you have his ascension to heaven, you have the outpouring of the Holy Spirit on the
New Testament believers in the book of Acts, you have the creation of the new body of Christ,
which we are the temple.
This is the temple that is, that we, our bodies are the temple of the Holy Spirit.
And we, the church, are the temple of Christ.
So to sidebar, to say there's going to be a third Jewish temple, well that means God's
got two temples going on, he's got a temple over here for the believers, and he's got
a temple over here for these apostate Christ-rejecting, no, you've got to, that's such a contortion
of scripture, it's not even sensible.
So then you have the Holy Spirit poured out the new body of Christ and the destruction
of Jerusalem.
They are all part of the first advent of Christ, and if you do not understand that the destruction
of Jerusalem is just as important in the overall meaning and philosophy of Christ's first coming,
you don't even understand Christ's first coming.
And so that's the importance of this, and that's what the church is missing today because
of the vast rejection and repudiation of this significant major doctrine of Christ's destruction
of Jerusalem and its meaning upon the church.
See, I always thought of it as a dual fulfillment, that it did happen, like the prophecies were
foretelling of the 70 AD, and it was foretelling of the end of the world too, but you're saying
no, it was only in 470 AD.
Well, there were references, for example, at the end of Matthew 24, at the very end
of that chapter, Jesus references the coming of Christ, but the reference is this.
When you see the destruction of Jerusalem, and it was the most awful, horrific, military
siege in the history of the world, this is something that, again, is lost to people.
Even with our modern technology and our nuclear weapons and our ships of war and our aircraft
and all of the modern warfare that we have, if you look at the devastation of World War
II, World War II, World War II, et cetera, there has never been a single military siege
to compare to the Roman siege of Jerusalem in 70 AD.
It is still the greatest slaughter and total annihilation of a people in the history of
mankind.
Jesus was saying in that reference that when you look at the destruction of Jerusalem,
with all of its devastation, you have a glimpse of God's great judgment on mankind in the
last days.
So in that sense, the destruction of Jerusalem was used as a teaching tool to help them understand
what the judgment, the final judgment of God, would be like.
And so when people saw that judgment upon Israel, and then you can imagine if you had
been alive at that time and could have seen that, you would have known very clearly what
God meant when he talked about the final judgment.
See what I'm saying?
Yeah.
In that sense, he referenced the Second Coming, but that was not the focus.
The focus was the destruction of Jerusalem and the conclusion of the Mosaic covenant
and the introduction of the new covenant whereby we are one in Christ, and we are the temple
of God.
The old temple has been destroyed.
Now there's a new temple, but it's not a physical temple made with hands.
It's a spiritual temple, and the only temple that we Christians in this new covenant age
are to look forward to, and Paul is very clear about this in Galatians chapter 4, is the
new Jerusalem come down from God out of heaven.
And the comparison between the old Jerusalem, which is in bondage, Paul said in Galatians
4, and the new Jerusalem, which is free, and the mother of us all.
So the church, the body of Christ, the only Jerusalem that will have any future, it will
be the new Jerusalem.
So, again, the Christian Zionist ideology completely misinterprets and confuses this
third Jewish temple and ignores the significance of the new temple relative to the church,
and it's a very convoluted conversation.
Yeah, it's a very deep conversation, I totally understand.
No, I mean, I used to believe that.
As you know, Paul, I used to teach that.
I used to teach Christians.
I didn't know it by that title.
I knew it by dispensationalist theology, Schofieldism.
I knew it by that, but I didn't realize what I was teaching.
I taught what I was taught, and I hadn't studied it for myself.
I just was taught it in college.
I got into ministry and I started teaching.
I taught this for 30 years before the Lord opened my eyes to the error of it, and I began
studying it for myself independently, and then I realized how wrong I had been to teach
this false doctrine for so many years, and so that's why I've been so passionate about
trying to teach the truth about it, because of all those years that I taught the falsehood.
So I very much understand where they're coming from, but they are not understanding the New
Testament teaching, and they've bought into the Schofield philosophy of prophecy, which
was a Zionist-created idea, which elevates prophecy to, well, let me just put it this
way, elevates the current Israel, the one created in 1948, the Zionist state of Israel,
the atheist Israel.
It elevates it to a position of biblical prophecy, giving it a unique status of Bible authority,
which is absolutely ludicrous, and people don't realize that the title of the Revelation
is not the Revelation of Israel.
It's the Revelation of Jesus Christ.
Prophecy is about Jesus.
It's not about Israel, but these Christian Zionists have made prophecy completely about
Israel.
They don't know how to even address the subject of prophecy without addressing it from an
Israeli perspective, and so that's a great distortion, and I think it's a great blasphemy,
to be honest, because you're taking the glory of prophecy from Christ, and you're putting
it on this pagan, atheist, Christ-rejecting people that have nothing whatsoever to do
with the prophecies of Christ relative to the future state of man, not the future state
of Israel, the future state of mankind at all.
And so, again, it is a grand deception, and it wasn't even known to the world until John
Darby and C.I.
Schofield, and before him—no, I shouldn't say that, because before then there was a
couple of Jesuit priests that tried to inculcate this type of teaching into the church, but
it was popularized with Darby and Schofield, and then by the time the 20th century comes
around, with the Schofield-referenced Bible being accepted in all the seminaries—not
all, but you know what I'm saying, the evangelical seminaries and colleges and churches all
over the Western world, especially the United States—then it permeated the thinking of
the pulpits and the pews, and it's been that way ever since.
And so that's why so much of what we have going on in our country today, politically,
is a direct result of the misinterpretation of biblical prophecy relative to Israel, and
that's why so many of the things that are happening are happening, and the church is—I
hate to say it, but the church is directly responsible for much of the death and destruction
that the United States is perpetrating around the Middle East especially, all because they
think they've got to help prepare that part of the world for this third temple, and that
they're going to prepare the way for the Antichrist, which is another part of it.
Paul, give me a minute.
Think about this.
What they're doing, all this—they're helping—we've got to help Israel, we've got to help Israel,
fight for Israel.
President Trump just last week said, we're not in the Middle East for oil, militarily.
Our troops are not in Israel for oil.
We are in the Middle East to protect Israel.
Okay, so finally somebody said it.
That's the only reason that we're fighting over there in the Middle East.
That's the only reason our men and women are dying in Afghanistan and Syria.
The only reason we're doing anything in the Middle East is because we're there to protect Israel.
Israel doesn't need protection.
It's the most powerful military force in the Middle East.
It's the only nuclear power in the Middle East.
There's not a single Middle Eastern Arab nation that comes close to threatening Israel.
Israel is the aggressor state.
We're there helping Israel promote havoc and war and death.
They have turned Palestine into the largest prison in the world, and we're there accomplishing that.
We're there helping them do all of that, and Christians are waving the Israeli flags in their church auditoriums
and talking about bombing Iran and bombing Syria and all this kind of stuff.
We have helped Israel kill 5 million Palestinians since 1948.
We have helped Israel displace 7 million indigenous men, women, and children from Palestine since 1948.
That blood, that death, that destruction is on our hands, and it's on the pulpits of America.
Why? Because they believe that they are obedient to God in supporting this counterfeit state of Israel over there in the Middle East.
Think of the death, carnage, and destruction that's taken place out of a misplaced theological interpretation about prophecy.
That's the kind of damage that C.I. Scofield and those who have followed his doctrines have created in the modern world.
It's a travesty, and we're never going to have revival in our country.
We're never going to have any semblance of peace at all in the world
until the church comes to its senses about the false prophecies associated with Scofield and his reference Bible,
specifically to the Israel-based prophecy doctrines that he made popular.
I grew up in a Baptist home. I grew up believing in Zionism.
I was very pro-Israel my whole life.
It just seems like once you get over the fact that they're not God's chosen people just for being Jewish,
the only way to be a chosen people is by believing in Jesus.
What would you say to those who might be listening right now and believe in Zionism
and that are having a hard time wrapping their mind around what you're saying right now?
Yeah, my sentiments to them are, I completely understand.
You know, you do not unlearn that kind of teaching easily and quickly.
It took me from about 2007 until about 2014 before I could begin to comprehend the error, number one, of what I believed,
and number two, the truth of what I was supposed to believe.
This is a man that had priesthood all of his ministerial life.
So when I first started feeling uncomfortable with the doctrine, which is the way it started,
the Holy Spirit began stirring a discomfort in my soul about it.
I got to the point that I was unable to teach it anymore from the pulpit
because every time I did, I just felt something really, really wrong was happening,
and I didn't know what it was.
So at first I just stopped talking about it, but the feeling wouldn't go away.
And so I knew after a period of months that this was a work of the Holy Spirit.
This was not just a fleshly feeling.
This was a moving of God in my spirit.
So that caused me, I had to go to the Lord in prayer and very sincerely and openly tell Him,
I don't know what it is that I don't know that I should know, but I'm open.
And I would suggest to anybody who is struggling with any of this is to go to the Lord with an open heart,
an objective spirit in mind, and be willing to be taught by the Holy Spirit,
and forget about everything you've been taught by a human being.
Forget all the charts, all the maps, all the dates and times, the books and the DVDs,
and just go to the Scripture and start studying with it.
And that's what I did.
And I didn't even look at commentaries.
I didn't look at other men's works, and I just studied the Scriptures,
and I began to realize the error of what I had taught.
And so then I began to have to construct a truthful presentation of the subject,
which I started in 2014, and I'm still doing today.
And the materials that I'm producing are now the result of that study.
But the point is, Paul, is look at the time it took me to go from unlearning what I had learned and taught
and then to try and learn the truth and then to be able to learn it well enough to teach it.
So I'm 13 years into this, and I'm still not done.
And so this is not something that people are just going to overnight say a magic prayer,
and then everything is going to just be crystal clear.
This is going to require some study and some learning, and most of all, a humble heart,
to be willing to admit that I may have been wrong about what I believed.
And I think that might be the biggest factor in all this.
If we're not humble in our hearts, and if we're not willing to be taught of the Lord,
and if what we are believing is an error, if we're not willing to repent of that and to turn from it,
then we're never going to learn truth, because we have an obstinate, stubborn heart.
So it begins with a pure heart and a humble heart to want to be able to know truth.
And if you start with that, I believe the Lord will show you truth,
because He, the Holy Spirit, will guide you into all truth, Jesus said.
Awesome. Well, I really appreciate you coming on the show today.
Can you just, real quickly, just tell people how to support you in your ministry?
Oh, thanks, Paul. Yeah, well, my website, chuckbaldwinlive.com, that's all one word,
chuckbaldwinlive.com, we have all of our, my commentaries, my syndicated columns that are there,
all of the books that we offer, and my study DVDs, all of my Israel DVDs,
I've got several on the subject, and people can go to the store at the top of the page,
and they can search, and they'll find all the materials that are available.
All of our columns are there, my sermons are archived, all of them are archived on that page.
It will also link you to our fellowship webpage, which is LibertyFellowshipMT.com,
and that has all of our sermons archived online,
as well as the live stream every Sunday afternoon that we broadcast to tens of thousands every Sunday afternoon.
It's available on LibertyFellowshipMT.com, but you can reach that by going to my page,
chuckbaldwinlive.com.
Awesome. Well, thank you so much, Mr. Baldwin, for coming on the show, I appreciate it.
Thank you very much, Paul, I enjoyed being with you again.
All right, God bless.
Yes, sir, you too.
All right, that was Dr. Chuck Baldwin. I really appreciate him coming on the show.
He definitely has a different point of view than me on this topic.
I must say, I don't agree. I think it is a dual fulfillment.
But, you know, people can have different points of view on these issues.
You know, I was kind of taking for a loop there, because I guess I didn't know what his belief was.
I probably should have done a little bit more research before I had him on on this particular topic.
But, you know, he's right on about God's chosen people in Israel.
You know, I don't agree with him on the temple and about how it all happened in 70 AD.
But I do believe it is a dual fulfillment.
I do believe a lot of those things did happen in 70 AD, but it's also a future prophecy.
Anyways, I'm not an expert on any of this. If you want to know, talk to someone else.
I'm just really glad that he came on.
I always enjoy talking to Dr. Baldwin, and I do encourage you to go check out his website.
He has a lot of great information there.
But tonight's show is pretty much over.
That's it, guys. It's a short show.
But I always do appreciate the supporters that have helped me out.
Again, guys, go to our Bitchute channel and subscribe there.
We have 66 subscribers, so we need a lot more here, guys.
Brighteon is also cooking. We've got some videos up on there.
On Brighteon, we have one exclusive video to Brighteon.
And then we have one exclusive video to Bitchute.
And so I really hope you guys check those things out and also subscribe to our backup channel on YouTube.
All right, guys.
Well, I got to plug all these sayings because good night.
I need people to support this show, and I need people to keep it going.
And that's how we keep it going.
And if you do these sayings, subscribe to these sayings and donate to our Patreon.
We can keep going.
And I really hope you guys like the idea of doing a Way Back Wednesday episode each week.
I hope you guys consider donating to that.
And you don't have to give all 300 to be a part of that.
I'm not sure if I made it very clear in that video, but you can give 50.
And then once we get up to 300, we'll release an episode.
So there's a lot of ways to do it.
If you want to support that project, make sure you donate.
We'll put the link in the description for that.
Thank you guys for tuning in to this show.
That's it.
God bless.