Music
What's up guys, this is Keith Rivas from First Words Baptist Church. We're here in El Monte, California.
I'm joined by Pastor Bruce Mahie and a couple of the guys from the congregation.
We're doing this podcast to just talk about current events, end times Bible prophecy, and give it all from a fundamental biblical
background and viewpoint. So today we're talking about if Jesus went to hell.
It's not a doctrine you have to agree with to go to heaven.
You only have to believe in the death, burial, and resurrection.
But a lot of people are misled on this doctrine of where Jesus went for three days and three nights
after dying on the cross. So that's what we'll be covering tonight.
And I think the best starting point would be to talk about where sinners go.
Unsaved sinners, where do they go when they die? And a verse we're going to start off with is in Romans 6
verse 23. Well, how about we do this first? Why don't we just like start off by just talking about church?
Okay, we'll talk about Sunday, we'll talk about church,
talk about sermons, talk about just random stuff, and then we'll jump right into the doctrine thereafter.
We'll let it segue into that, but that'll be the topic that we talk about first is
Jesus going to hell. Okay, do that, right? So we got who do we have over here?
Of course, you already introduced yourself. We have Keith Rivas right next to him to his left. We have Paul Casala.
You can't see him on the frame, but he's there I promise. And then we have Raymond Flores.
Elray, and then we have Brother Hiktoff Mason right there. And then off camera we have David and Brother Marcos.
And it's a shout out to those guys right there, you know, just kind of hanging out in blue right there.
Drinking coffee. All right, so this is our first podcast and we're looking to start a podcast called the Rod of Iron
podcast show where we talk about just different things, right?
The main thing of course is doctrine, end times Bible prophecy, and any current events, but just also what's going on in our church.
I think we have good conversations after church and so we decided to start something like this.
So let's talk about church, you know, hey, we're sneaking in the members
little by little
during this
quarantine. What do you guys think about that?
Well, you know, we've never really stopped church this whole time, you know, yeah, and that's a good thing.
So, you know, not much has really changed for us. I mean, of course a couple people had to miss but, you know, they were still welcome to come.
You know, we've never kicked anybody out. So yeah, I think that's a good positive thing.
What do you think? I think it's actually a pretty good test run on what to expect in the future, kind of
get a plan for things like this, for when they happen. It caught us off guard and I think we handled it really well and
kind of thanking the pastor as well for kind of keeping his head on the shoulders and
guiding us through this.
Yeah, because we really, you know, pastor really played it safe. You know, I mean at the beginning of this we didn't really know, you know, how
how extreme it was. You know, we could only go off of the facts that are, you know, given and the numbers.
So, you know, going off of that we just, you know, decided to limit the church.
But, you know, it's been great. I mean, you know, a lot of us are,
you know, very strong in our faith. So that's good and hasn't really affected any of us.
We've all remained close and hung out with each other outside of church and stuff and gathered to watch the live streams.
And we actually got the live stream up and running. That's a good thing about this whole thing.
In my opinion, the best thing that's come about this whole entire situation
is that it forced me to like learn how to do all this live stream stuff because I didn't do that at all.
You know, when we first started the church it was just like just record.
I didn't want to put the sermons on YouTube not because I was afraid or something
but just because like I figured like no one's gonna listen and then we just stuck to that.
We just stuck to recording them, uploading them on Monday for Sunday, uploading them on Friday for Thursday.
And I was just like, I don't think I'm ever gonna do live stream.
But now we have to do live stream and my opinion is if you're gonna do something go all the way.
You know what I mean? So I think it's been good.
Brother Keith came up with the idea to start a podcast and I think you should talk about that a little bit.
But it was actually at one of our gatherings that we had outside of church.
Our little Anne Frank gatherings?
Yeah, and that's where we actually came up with the title of the podcast, Rod of Iron, as a group of men.
We really came up with that together. We kind of brainstormed and we kind of just hit us and now it's off and running.
Yeah. Cool. What do you think, Brother Keith?
No, I think it's been good.
You guys can interrupt each other. We got to talk like the way we typically do, right?
Don't be all cordial. Like you look a little tense there, Hike.
I'm just laying for my turn to speak.
I know, he's like too professional.
Yeah, you guys gotta loosen up a little bit.
This is only gonna work if we do it the way we typically talk after church.
Alright.
Yeah, don't be scared, homie.
Minus the F-bombs.
Don't be scared, homie.
Because I'm looking at Hike and Hike's like...
So, you know, what I'm saying is like when we talk, when we do this, interrupt each other, you know, joke around and stuff like that.
This is still the test run.
So, you know, loosen up a little bit.
Alright?
Right.
Alright, Hike?
Alright.
Just don't loosen up too much.
Okay.
I got it.
I think I got it.
No, I think it's good though to see how churches respond, especially our church.
I know there's in the independent fundamental Baptist movement because what's gonna happen when church becomes illegal and it's not a virus?
You know, when people are just scared to show who, show like, hey, I'm a Christian, you know?
Hey, if you have service and we find you like they do in other countries, like even in China is a good example of how they treat Christians.
They have to go underground.
They have to go into hiding, but that doesn't stop people from believing.
It doesn't stop people from meeting.
It doesn't lessen their faith.
It should strengthen it.
So, what do you think about this?
Because I was thinking about just this whole situation.
Yeah.
And a situation like this obviously brings out the best and even the worst in people.
Right.
But think about this.
It also really shows who people really want to fight.
Yeah.
And what I mean by that is this is like, you know, obviously we understand the Bible tells us that the weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty through God to the pulling down of stronghold.
We fight spiritual wickedness in high places and that never changes.
Like, so the enemy is always the same and our battle tactic is always the same, right?
Like we're always, the way we fight is through preaching.
The way we fight is through sowing, through exposing the wickedness of this world.
So that should never change.
You know what I'm saying?
So it's like, it's like, you know, if we feel like, you know, something changed, something drastically changes, we're not going to say, okay, we're not going to, we're not going to go sowing and we're going to go start street preaching.
We're going to change the battle tactic.
Or it's like, oh man, this crisis is taking place.
We're not going to fight the way we typically do.
We're just going to go protest instead, right?
Right.
That we're going to switch our fighting that way.
We don't, we don't want to be ultimately tossed to and fro.
Yeah.
Every wave of, or every wind of, what would you call it?
Doctrine or fights or.
Yeah.
Even politics, you know, which is even worse, you know?
Because.
So.
Yeah.
Like we have to earnestly contend for the faith, right?
At all times.
But isn't, isn't this like, so this is like a foreshadowing because this is really showing who people think the real enemy is.
True.
You know what I mean?
Because, you know, some people will be like, well, you know, right now we need to go and protest and, you know, go to the government and go bring our signs and go do that.
I care about none of that.
It's like, dude, I don't care about that stuff.
Go fight the deep state.
You know what I mean?
Yeah.
And look, I'm not saying that there's not wicked people there, but dude, leave that for the birds.
You know what I mean?
That's for the hippies.
That's for, we're on the front lines, man.
Like we're fighting the real fight.
Yeah, exactly.
So, but how would we apply that?
Like, cause obviously every tribulation that we go through is a foreshadowing of the great tribulation in the beginning of sorrows that we will experience one day.
So what does that say?
Well, it says that the people who do that today in the end times, they're going to be the ones not soul winning, not exposing the wickedness and stuff.
They're going to be the ones like trying to fight off the mark of the beast and like, you know, just getting into fights and battles that we're not supposed to be involved in.
Yeah.
I think.
You understand what I'm saying?
Yeah.
And there's absolutely going to be people actually, I would say even brethren turning us in.
Yeah.
You know, let them, let them fight whoever they want to, but it's another thing.
Okay.
If you want to go fight politics, if you want to go fight politicians, do so.
Yeah.
But it's actually going to be brethren turning in brethren, you know, which is even worse.
Yep.
I mean, I'm chilling.
We had a good time.
Yeah.
Then that's basically what it is for us because I mean, I'm excited to go back.
So when everything opens back up, I mean, I think someone's going to be better.
Yeah.
I think we're going to be more motivated.
Hey, we'll stay out here an extra half hour.
Let's meet up on Saturday and do it.
But right now it's kind of a chill time, but we've got a good time.
I mean, I mean, we're meaning bro.
I mean, we're making fun of it.
I mean, I'm not scared at all.
Like we're basically doing what we've always done just at a different scale.
Yeah.
Right.
Yeah.
But I think like on top of being more motivated when this, everything opens back up and things
go back to what we think is normal, I think a lot of people are going to be more receptive
too.
I think it's going to show right away because you see this response to, to a virus that
ultimately isn't eternal, right?
You shut everything down.
You shut the world down for the most part, but people don't even stop and think about
if I died today from a car accident or something else besides a virus, where would I go forever?
You know?
And I think that the virus can ended up actually being a good segue to like, Hey, have you
ever thought about eternity?
Has that across your mind?
But also think about it as like in the end times when people are going through the beginning
of sorrows, you know, people are going to be like, well, you know, we need to, we need
to focus on, you know, getting food for our families.
We need to focus on finding shelter and getting away from, from the people who are going to
try to put us to death.
We need, this is, this is what we need to take care of.
You know what I mean?
We need to fight this.
And it's just like, that's the wrong battle, wrong battle.
And anybody listening to this would think, well, that's not me.
You know, I protest now, but that's not going to be me in the end times.
Who you are now is who you're going to be in the end times.
Exactly.
Bottom line.
It doesn't change.
And we've been seeing that nationalism and that, that Patriot movement and it claims
to be pro-Christian and like a lot of them are like that, but it's like, I'm not going
to go there.
I mean, I'm not there to argue with them there.
I mean, I'm here to soul win at the people's door.
And if I run into someone like that, and because God's kind of in their heart, even though
it's like a, like a, like a, like whatever version of it that they're going for, which
is like worldly and wrong.
But as we come to their door, I mean, if God's in their mind for something like that, maybe
we could get them saved.
And then, you know, we just brought them into, into God's fold and now we let him chastise
them.
We let him do whatever.
It's like this.
It's like, it's like, you know, there's people who follow me that are anti-vaxxers and that's
their thing.
I mean, that's the, that's the fight that they want to fight and they're consumed with
fighting and I, and I appreciate their passion and I agree with them like a hundred percent
about being against vaccines, you know what I mean?
Obviously vaccines are wicked as hell, you know, I'm not going to put no foreign substance
into my body and all that stuff, you know?
But here's the thing is like some of these people, that's all they want to fight.
Yeah.
It's like, which hill do you want?
I don't want to die on the hill where I don't want to, because here's the thing like that.
That's a small hill, bro.
Yeah.
Right.
Like I want to go to the mountain top.
If I'm going to die somewhere, I'm going to die on something that's like up there.
That's it.
And I'm not saying it's not like a big deal.
Obviously vaccines are a big deal, but here's the thing.
Like, you know, there's people who already lost the battle to vaccines because they were
vaccinated when they were children and they're, they're, they're finding the, the, they're
experiencing the ramifications of those vaccines in their latter years.
Right.
So then what's the solution for them?
Well, the gospel.
Giving them save so that they can get a resurrected body.
Yeah.
You know what I mean?
That's the solution.
Not fighting against Congress and all this stuff, you know, cause that's not going to
do you any good.
Cause they're all reprobates over there.
You're definitely not going to get a better resurrection.
You know, fighting politics and like being anti-vaxxed.
You'll get 1200 bucks, bro.
You won't shine any brighter, you know, you will get a stimulus check and look, you may
get a cash settlement or something.
You know, I, I, I, I just liked that, like that we've kind of just have that same spirit,
you know, like, like, like no one need to tell us to agree with each other.
We just kind of disagree with each other and, and that's what I love about our church.
And there's either other people out there, you know, in the movement, they're the same
way.
The ones that I end up falling in line with are ones that I barely respect and want to
fall in line with.
And I just fall in line with them naturally.
It's not because they said it.
It's just, we know these end up falling in the same type of line, the same, you know,
the way that we handle this and stuff.
And I love that about it.
Yeah.
Let me read a verse here in that regard, Philippians chapter one, let's see here, Philippians chapter
two, it says, if there be, if there be therefore any consolation in Christ, if any comfort
of love, if any fellowship of the spirit, if any bowels and mercies, fulfill ye my
joy that ye be like-minded having the same love being of one accord and of one mind.
I mean, that's like, it's reiterated three times over there, right?
It's saying like-minded, same love, four times like-minded, same love being of one accord
of one mind.
What does that talk about?
When the brethren dwell in unity, you know what I mean?
Because how do you fight a battle?
How do you fight the war over a long period of time?
Well, when you have soldiers to your right and to your left who believe just like you,
you guys are going in the same direction because we get tired of fighting sometimes.
You know what I mean?
Sometimes you can get discouraged, get depressed or something, or get down in the dumps.
But if you have another brother on the side of you, exhorting you daily to continue to
go forward, you can make it happen.
You know what I mean?
And I think also another key word there is brother.
How would you fight?
In the real world, you see your brother getting beat up.
How would that enrage you or how would that motivate you to back him up, let alone like
your spiritual brother?
You know God is our Father.
Amen.
We're supposed to have each other's back.
Yeah, amen.
It's good.
Yeah, it's been cool because it's like, I mean, we've been soloing in every Sunday with
my team there, Marcos.
But it's like some of the guys, but they'll hit me up on Saturday, but I mean, some of
these guys are just still going, I mean, and everyone's just kind of doing their own thing,
but it's like Moses, Brother Moses, Brother Paul, Glenn, like these guys are going on
Saturday soloing all the time.
So it's like, they haven't, I mean, they're just motivated for it, you know what I mean?
So I mean, that's the way they're taking it.
You know, I'm taking it the way, I've still been soloing faithfully, most of us on Sunday,
you know, for an hour.
But, you know.
And when we talk about unity, we're not talking about like you can't disagree on something.
Yeah, exactly.
Right, right.
You know what I mean?
When we talk about unity, we're talking about the fact that we see the overall picture.
And so because we agree on the overall picture, our minor disagreements doesn't really matter
to us.
Yeah.
Yeah, exactly.
We have a vision, and so it's like if we disagree on a minuscule thing, you know, that's no
big deal.
You know what I mean?
Because we have to disagree.
Yeah.
There's got to be times when we disagree, it'll be weird if we disagree on everything.
You know what I mean?
That would mean that we all know everything.
But this way, you know, iron sharpness, iron.
Right.
Which means that sometimes somebody's a little bit more sharper than the other, but hey,
guess what?
After conversation, you know, we're out soloing together, you fellowship together, somebody
ends up learning something in that process, and that's very important.
And we get in disagreements.
Sometimes there's, oh, brother Ulysses is here.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, you're here.
That's all right.
Come on through, man.
You're going to be on YouTube now.
We're actually on, we're live stream right now.
That's him.
What?
I got to edit that out?
This guy.
Yeah, it's prerecorded.
We got you.
He threw me off.
I was talking about something.
Unity.
Huh?
Unity.
Yeah, I know we're on the topic of unity.
Iron sharpening iron.
Oh, no, no, no.
I was saying like, we disagree sometimes.
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Oh, so that's what I was saying.
Hey, keep it down over there.
Sometimes we disagree on stuff, and sometimes, wouldn't you agree that there's guys in our
church that sometimes they'll disagree even to like an argumentative point?
Yeah.
Offendinitis.
It's cuticle.
Wow.
I mean, like, obviously, we shouldn't argue.
We shouldn't have contentions and stuff like that, but, you know, blood brothers fight
all the time.
I used to get in fistfights with my brother, but, you know, it was just like it would last
not even like an hour after, because as soon as it's done, it's done, we're brothers again.
And I think that, because someone asked me a little while ago, like, how do you guys
have so much unity in your church?
And that's probably one of the elements there is that guys get into arguments, and then
they actually bond closer because of it.
Right.
Yeah, the other day, me and I got into an argument on Instagram, but then I felt real
bad about it.
I'm sorry, bro.
Now it makes me want to be like nicer to him.
I accept your apologies.
That's why I sat next to him right now.
I think even this is hike sweater, you let me borrow even in the real world.
I don't know about you guys, but the closest friends that I've had growing up are those
that I've actually physically fought with.
Yeah.
You get to know somebody, you know, you kind of know the best and the worst.
Yeah.
Well, you kind of like you, you breach that, that part of your relationship where it's
like, you know, it goes deeper because of the fact that you've gotten angry at each
other at one point, but you still have each other's backs, so to speak.
And I think it's better to do that than just to be false, you know, with one another and
just always like smile in somebody's face, like pretend like everything's all good.
Yeah.
Sometimes there is, you know, a disagreement or something like that.
It's better to talk about it.
I think it's just you be real.
You just be real.
Hey, your hike, bro.
You owe me a meal at Cain's, bro.
I do.
I'm just saying, bro.
We can go there after this.
You know what I mean?
I do.
What I'm saying is, is like, you know, whether you disagree and stuff, but when you disagree,
it's just kind of like, probably what it is, is like when you, when people disagree and
they argue, if because they care about each other, it forces them to kind of work it out.
Yeah.
Reconcile it.
Yeah.
It helps you to just reconcile the whole situation.
And that's why you draw closer to each other.
Like, man, this is my brother, you know what I mean?
So, that's good.
I think that's probably where the unity of the church comes into play, you know?
And I'm not saying that everyone is like that of the church, you know what I'm saying?
But what I'm saying is, like, the vast majority of the people get along that way because of
that, you know?
That's probably why I'm close, I'm really close to Marcos.
Yeah.
Yeah, I've known Marcos for years.
How many years have I known you for?
You're up there.
Hey, there's been times when I've ripped his face.
I've ripped your face off.
Yeah.
I've ripped on Marcos multiple times.
Hey, but you know why?
I guarantee this guy loves me, though.
You know what I mean?
And we're like brothers to a certain extent because we've gone through some rough patches,
you know what I mean?
Yeah.
Open rebuke is better than secret love.
Yeah.
Open rebuke is better than secret love.
Yeah.
You know?
Faith for the wounds of a friend, you know, but the kisses of an enemy are deceitful,
the Bible tells us.
So you know, better to just square up, spiritually speaking, you know, and catch face, spiritually
speaking, and then you shake hands afterwards and then, you know, you can move on.
Because then it's like, you know, you can kind of like, you know how to deal with relationships,
too, you know?
You never want to just be the kind of person that just smiles all the time and everything
is just hunky-dory and you don't have problems with anybody.
We're human.
You're going to have problems with people, you know?
It's just how you deal with that, those issues.
You've got to be able to reconcile things.
You know, we've got to be peacemakers.
Yeah.
You know what I mean?
But you can't, there's no need for peacemakers if there's no war, you know?
So it's like war between brethren or battles kind of helps us to work things out, you know
what I mean?
And at the end of the day, you know, we're all men, we're all human, we're all fallible.
You know, there's nobody that's always 100% right.
And again, nobody's always going to agree on everything, you know?
See, now we're disagreeing right now.
Dude, me and Paul disagree a lot of times.
Like we'll get into like side doctrines and stuff, like just like stuff that's like irrelevant
stuff.
But it's like, you know what I mean?
Well, we disagree.
But I love that about him because some of the stuff, like I end up siding with him at
the end of the day, you know?
When I go home, like, oh, Paul's probably right about that, you know what I mean?
I'm not going to tell him.
But it's like, I mean, I like that he stands his ground because I don't want a friend that
doesn't stand his ground.
Right.
You don't want yes men.
Yeah, exactly.
What about, what if I'm wrong?
You know what I mean?
You know?
David, you were saying something.
I feel like, who's Paul?
I feel like the mic needs to be used.
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
Who's Paul?
Paul, if you need to say something, just snatch the mic.
Yeah, just snatch it.
Snatch that.
Snatch the mic.
Ah.
I'm okay.
I'm fine.
Ah, he's off.
Yes, he's right.
He's always wrong.
He's right about that.
He's right about being wrong.
I concur.
Well, let's get into some doctrine here, shall we?
Yeah, I think we loosened up.
Yeah, we loosened up.
That was good.
That was good stuff, man.
So, Brother Keith brought up the doctrine of Jesus going to Hell.
Now we're not talking about the Jewish doctrine of Jesus going for he's still there because the Talmud teaches that Jesus
Went to hell and he's still there and he's he's there to pay for his own sins
That he's burning in hell in his own escriment because he was a blasphemer. You know, he's a devil. He was doing things
He's teaching black magic or whatever. So they believe that but not the biblical manner of it, you know
Well, we believe is what the Bible teaches that Jesus went to hell for three days and three nights to pay for our sins
And you know, unfortunately, you know a lot of independent fundamental Baptists reject that doctrine and they think it's like blasphemy to like say that
Jesus went to hell but to say that it's blasphemy is just to completely ignore
The fact that the Bible literally says that his soul was not left in hell
Neither that his flesh see corruption. Amen. You know what I mean? And look, it's just like then
What is the tie between Jonah and Jesus exactly?
Like what's the point what is the tie between Jesus and every sacrifice that was burned isn't he the Passover lamb exactly
He's the Passover lamb. What do you think they did? They just like buried the lambs
Did they just bury the sheep in the Rams? They burned them
And I think somehow that's blasphemous. But you know what it is at the end of the day is
Is they think this is a blasphemous doctrine only because they think is this attached to who the pastor Anderson? Yeah
Cuz look your old pastor who's an old-school pastor
His old pastor not the one not not the the current old pastor and I'm talking about the old old one
Pastor Hampton, he believed Jesus went to hell and he preached that
And
You know what? I've known a lot of people who believe that you know, so that's a common doctrine and it wasn't controversial then
It's only controversial now because they think well, you know
If someone believes that Jesus went to hell then they believe in the posture pretty rad. They believe in replacement theology
They're wrong on a lot of other stuff personally showing somebody the doctrine from the Bible have not seen somebody scoff at this
Even if they were to question it once they see it from the Bible
Okay, it is what it is and me personally when I first heard of this doctrine
I was like man that even adds more weight on what he did, you know, it has even more meaning now. Yeah, you know
Yeah, I don't know
preconceived ideas
Well, I've always thought it was it was funny because the modern Bibles will change like when Jesus went to hell, you know
They change it to the grave
You know, so his soul was not left in the grave or his body was not left in the grave
Yeah, and it's funny that you know people who are King James only or claim to be King James only are taking that same doctrine
You know that his body was not left in the grave, but they're getting it from commentaries or they're getting it
Literally if they're getting it from commentaries and they're getting it from
You know these modern Bible translations Bible College. Yeah, you know, what's unfortunate about that is like a
Lot of these doctrines obviously, they're not not essential doctrines, but they are important though, you know, I mean, but a lot of those doctrines
Such as for example the post-trip pre-wrath rapture versus the pre-tribulation rapture
When they take their stance on the pre-trip rapture, they always use the modern versions rendition of it. Yeah
Bowls instead of vials for example. Yeah, the Bible says vials just say vials. Why are you saying?
It's not a cereal or what? Yeah
It's weird
You know, they'll say like, you know
You know in second Thessalonians chapter 2 when it talks about the man of sin being revealed the son of perdition
And you know talks about the great falling away. They interpret that as being the rapture
When falling away means apostasy and you don't you don't even need to know Greek you can't fall up you don't exactly
You need to know the signs you even need to know a little bit of Greek if you were to read just the Greek word
Which you can
In that phrase it spells out apostasy only difference is apostasy
And you I think that that's rapture. Yeah, but it's books that they're reading. It's Bible colleges. It's preconceived ideas
You know, I've gone soul winning I've showed people that Jesus went to hell and no one has ever batted an eye at it
It just makes sense
Let me read you from Revelation 1 15 talking about Jesus
It says and his feet like unto fine brass as if they were burned in a furnace
And his voice has the sound of many waters, you know
I think that's symbolic of the fact that you know, he went down into hell
And there's no denying that he was in the center of the earth
Right as Jonas was three days and three nights in the well's belly social the son of man be three days and three nights
in the heart of the earth
and today and look most people
I mean as long as you're not a flat earth or a flat heart believes that hell's in the center of the earth
You know what? I mean? What do you guys think?
Yeah, I mean these people they say that that he was in
In the heart of the earth, but that was in paradise in Abraham's bosom, but the Bible says that you know
Paradise is where the tree of life is. Yeah
God's throne is I mean, are they saying that God's throne that the tree of life is in is in the heart of the earth?
And and they and when they they come at us like they come at us with
Like oh Jesus was how like like and they come like with this like thing where it's like all oh my god
Like oh wow, like you're saying that like yeah, like oh like that's offensive or something
But I find it offensive that they're saying that the tree of life is in the heart of the earth. Yeah, it's like what?
Well, how about this, you know Paul said and I knew such a man whether in the body or out of the body
I cannot tell God knoweth how that he was caught up into paradise and notice. Where is the location caught up?
Into paradise and heard unspeakable words, which is not lawful for a man to utter. Yeah, you know, and so
Well, they say well, yeah, but there's different types of paradise. No, there isn't
Where does the Bible use juice have any of you guys asked?
Anybody who does not believe for example, they're saved but they don't believe jesus went to hell
Have you shown them in acts where it says so and what what do they say? Like how do they reconcile that?
That they say jesus didn't go the last person I talked to just just said
They they used his cop-out. Okay, and this is for anything not just this doctrine
I'll show them from the bible regarding the post-trip pre-wrath rapture
You know, uh, the jews not being god's chosen people and this is what they always say, okay
This is what the last person said
Yeah, i've already studied the whole thing. Look look i i i've studied it already. I don't see it, you know
So they kind of just kind of like breeze over it
They don't want to address the fact that it literally says it was like but can you interpret this please?
I think it says even more if they with their own mouth, you know, they're not going to be able to interpret it
I think it says even more if they with their own mouth say I don't see it then okay
They'll say you don't see it. Well, what more can we do with even? Yeah, like what do you teach somebody who knows everything?
Yeah, I think sadly that's the majority of people who inject a lot of um the doctrines, you know
Held within you know, this movement per se. Hey, the bible says open down mine eyes
That I may behold wondrous things out of thy law
That would that kind of goes to show us the christians can have their eyes closed
You know if they're not spirit-filled if they're not asking the lord to open their eyes and look I personally believe that some christians
If they see the truth and they don't want to deny the truth i'm talking about safe people though
That god actually can begin to like harden their hearts and cause them to be like spiritually stupid
Spiritually ignorant where he begins to remove knowledge from them
And won't show them any more in truth, you know
Because it's like why would you deny the truth?
The truth i've met plenty of people who were like against a specific truth
And then they they researched they studied the bible and they're like, well, I guess I was wrong
And then they believed it by the way. I'm one of them. I did not believe at one point that jesus went to hell
And then when I was when I was challenged by this I was like well
I'm, just gonna study out see if it's true and lo and behold I came to the conclusion because of acts chapter two
You know, it's either this it's either i'm king james only
Right
And I believe what the what the king james bible said
Because are you trying to tell me that they did it wrong that they translated it wrong, you know?
Jesus went to hell and at that point that's all I needed. It's just like there it is, you know, let's move on
Sometimes you're wrong and like you said, you know, like like they get hardened like against like, you know
Wisdom and stuff like in the deeper things of the bible and that's why these people are so shallow
Yeah, I mean they don't they don't have you know
That's one thing about us, you know
It's like we have this like deep understanding of the bible like where we get real deep into it like but but real exciting
Still we keep it hard and and you know, we you know, we end up knowing a lot because you know
Our pastors are you know in the movement like they're they're very knowledgeable
because they decided to take what the bible says without offense and without
regard for you know, who would offense or or
Or what their preconceived idea was like it doesn't matter like we just believe the bible
How about this the bible says?
I have not seen nor ear of heard neither have entered into the heart of man
The things which god has prepared to those that love him, but they have been revealed but they're revealed unto us
By his spirit for the spirit searcheth all things. Yay the deep things of god
So what does that tell us that some people don't see they don't hear it's not entering into their hearts
But he says but guess what they are they're revealed unto us by his spirit
And not just any other regular truth, you know, the bible says that even the deep things of god are revealed unto us
you know, so
Truth is available to anybody who wants it
So I never want to be like I know some old ife pastors
that
I feel like they're castaways now, man
Like they're they're like god is basically done with them. Yeah, you know the truth does not stop at salvation, you know
That's the first stop then you seek more right, you know, god is offering an inexhaustible truth here
And it's really up to you
If you're doing your reading if you are having fellowship because I think fellowship is also like another major part of this
You know to coming to more truth because hey ray knows something that I don't know
And I guess what we get we get to talking again that you know, iron sharpness iron. So you can't just
I don't know his card, you know
Look from let's say let's just approach it from a logical perspective that jesus went to hell
If we were to pay for our own sins, that's exactly where we would go
So if we pay for our sins, does the bible say that we're going to be in the grave?
To pay for our sins. We don't believe in soul soul sleep, right?
That's like a form of soul sleep
Well more mormons will take it one step further when you try to tell them that jesus went to hell
They they firmly believe and still actively teach that jesus went to uh spirit prison is what they call it
and it's like it's like the the the the crazier version of abraham's bosom where you have uh,
Yeah, you have you have you have two two sides of two sides of a place that's not hell and not heaven
Or uh, you have saints that aren't in heaven, right?
But they the spirit prison is for saved people in the under the mormon ideology
Where jesus went and preached to them so they actually still believe that when missionaries die
They actually the spirit of those missionaries don't go directly to heaven
they actually
they actually go and have they have ceremonies and and uh,
They tell people that well now he's a spirit missionary or a sister missionary in in spirit
So when the bible says that to be absent from the bodies to be present with the lord, where is the lord?
Tell me that I pray
So are they saying that they're that they're saving they're down. They're saving people out of hell
They say they say that they can still save you after you're dead. So they that's why they get baptized for the dead
So that that ties direction to that doctrine because they do that because they said well
You know your grandma didn't believe in the church. They weren't baptized mormon
Let's save them. Anyway, you know, let's baptize the great-granddaughter of so-and-so that was like a pilgrim coming across and they're big into the pioneers
So let's talk about first peter chapter three then where that comes from, right? That's where they that's where they go
Let's take a look at that go to first peter chapter three
And let's look at verse number it starts. Let's start off in verse number 18
It says for christ also
Hath once suffered for sins the just for the unjust that he might bring us to god being put to death in the flesh
But quickened by the spirit verse 19 by the witch, excuse me by which also he went and preached unto the spirits in
Prison, okay. So what is it saying here?
It's saying that he was quickened by the spirit and it was that same spirit
That he went and preached unto the spirits in prison
So they think that when it talks about the spirits in prison that is referring to like people who are like in this, uh, abraham's bosom
purgatory purgatory
You know plays holding cell right so like if you look at a graph of it if you look at something
Have you guys ever seen like an illustration? It's like it's like the earth and then you have like hell
You know where everyone's burning and yeah, the charles lark. Uh, yeah, charles larkin's, uh little chart and then you have
Abraham's bosom so it's like two compartments
You know
And it's just like that's and then you have the great gold fix and yeah, it's a duplex apartment
Is this duplex?
This duplex apartment that you got going on here where you have abraham's bosom then you have hell
That's what they and then in between is the great gold fix, okay
So that's what they believe the spirits in prison are but is that what the spirits in prison?
Is really talking about if we were to take the bible just in its context
Because this is actually referring to the fact that unsafe people
are referred to
as being imprisoned
Right because the bible tells us in the book of isaiah that
That jesus christ by the spirit will go and preach to people and and and release the captives
Those who are in prison those who are in bondage because we're in bondage to sin
So he comes and he preaches to us who are imprisoned by the wages of sin, right?
And it says in verse 20 which sometime were just a disobedient when once the long suffering of god waited in the days of noah
While the ark was a preparing wherein few that his eight souls were saved by water the like figure
Were into even baptism doth also now save us not the putting away of the filth of the flesh
But the answer of a good conscience toward god by the resurrection of jesus christ, so we see that baptism saves us
by the resurrection
of jesus christ
Because it's not only his death
That is necessary to save us, right?
The bible tells us in roman chapter number four
That he was delivered for our offenses and raised again for our justification
So both are needed, you know his resurrection and his death
so the spirits in prison the whole concept of like
You know because i've heard dispensation was dipsticks will say something like that, right?
They'll be like, oh, you know, he he went to prison and then that's where he preached his like great revival sermon
You know everyone, you know heard him down in abraham's bosom and then they believed and then they went to heaven after that stupid
Say even if it if uh, he did go into quote-unquote prison
Who's to say show me where this prison is like underground or it's in the heart of the earth
Like where's the location right? You can't just like make these things up and kind of forsake the clear scripture
and you know go with
Some ridiculous illustration of what you think it says. It tells us when
It says when yeah, you know, so it's not like it's not any surprise of when this happened. Yeah
Yeah, abraham's bosom is a jewish fable
It's a jewish fable that's where it comes from, you know, I I think it's so awesome that god makes it so
Uh definitive, you know, are you going to be king james only or not?
You know because the king james bible as far as you know, as far as english-speaking, right?
It's the only bible that that translated as as hell, you know, that'll leave my soul in hell, right?
You know, so it's it gives it it gives it to us. Uh, it gives it to us crystal clear. Yeah, you know
See another thing is like there's so many ways of debunking is this abraham's bosom thing
like so
What was abraham's bosom called before abraham?
According according to the jews it was called it was adam's bosom
But then adam fell so he got he got evicted and he was like, you know, he was demoted or something, you know
Exactly
It's like what in the world it's such a foolish doctrine
What do you guys what do you guys think?
Anything else or what? Yeah, I mean, I think uh, genesis 22
Is uh, you know where it was. Hey, is there another copy over there? Can you can you grab me one?
Uh in genesis 22, that's where this was prophesied and it's like it's actually just like an amazing doctrine, you know
And I don't know if a lot of people know about this
I mean I brought it up today and some of the guys, you know, they hadn't heard it that way
Maybe there's people out there but it says in genesis 22 6 it says
And abraham took the wood of the burnt offering and laid it upon isaac his son
And you know just like jesus, you know, he bore his cross. It was laid upon him
Yeah, and he took the fire in his hand and a knife and they went both together
and isaac spake unto his father and said father and he said
Here am I my son and he said behold the fire which you know is a representative of how in the wood the cross
but where is a lamb for a burnt offering and that represents jesus and
And abraham said my son god will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering
Yeah, so I mean it's just it's an amazing doctrine and you know
It goes way back
And that prophecy was fulfilled and you know
That means that it had to be a burnt offering if that prophecy was fulfilled right, you know, yeah
I don't think it's a it's a ridiculous doctrine. It's it's ridiculous that people would um
Would reject such a doctrine, you know, I think it's just crystal clear and honestly the only people who would even
Think to reject it are those who already have a preconceived idea
You know because any babe in christ when you teach him this it's not
He just said that how could you are you're an anishinaabe or something, you know, they're just like i've talked to people and they're just like
Like yeah, that makes total sense
And then there's been times when I asked them like do you know why?
And he's like, well, I guess like if we're to die, that's what really goes
So man, you smart cookie. Yeah, I mean they figure it out. Yeah, they figure it out
I was like, you know more than most pastors do good night
Yeah, that's good stuff. I love that doctrine, you know
It's a great doctrine
It makes me thankful. Yeah, exactly
Yeah makes salvation that much more beautiful because he was look look folks three days is a long time. Yeah
three days in hell
Bro, that makes my hair stand up in in jonah. He says in in jonah
He says, you know the earth with their bars is about me forever forever, you know
So it feels like it'll get felt forever and when I read that it's just so touching like, you know
Because that's where you know when you have that in your mind that you know
Jesus was in hell and that's representative when he said, you know
As jonah was in the valley of the whales for three days and three nights
So tell the son of man be in the heart of the earth. I mean and you read jonah chapter two. I mean, it's amazing
Yeah, I love it. You know, yeah, I mean they bring the tear to your eye if you're yeah, absolutely
Yeah
Yeah, hell the bible says that hell is made for the devil and his angels
and so it's um
It's a punishment
It's an expression of god's wrath that is suitable for an angelic being with a lot of power
And that's where people go unfortunately, you know
God created it and the bible tells us that's where he went. I mean think about it the fact that his soul descended
We think like oh hell's like right here. It's just like no dude. That's like
In the center of the earth. Yeah, and also he has the keys to hell why because he conquered
How did he get the keys of death and of hell?
You know what I mean?
I think it's um
Taking glory away from god to say that he didn't suffer for us in hell
Because remember when peter when christ was talking about how he's gonna suffer and peter said, what did he say?
Be it far from thee. Yeah or something, but he got rebuked for that. Oh, yeah
He didn't get behind me satan. So if you're talking about hey, let's take this glory away from god that he did not
You know, that's a good point of hell for us. Imagine like the spiritual rebuke. You're kind of bringing it upon yourself. Yeah
Right, that's good. That's good stuff. I never thought about that. That's good
That's just
That's when you should have turned it backwards
You should have had your hat forward and then when you said you just put your hat backwards
Just just photoshop or and just say it feels good to be a gangster the sunglasses and the
Yo, yo, you're gonna let this off my guy off camera guy just talk to you
I'm just joking
Hey, uh a side note real quick. I want to get this off my chest
Battery and put it in that one right there. I just want to get this off my chest since we brought up the angels
Right in in hell. Well people who you know believe in the repent of sins, right?
And they're against faith alone. They always say well
Well, the angels believe right the devils they believe but and tremble. Yeah, right, right, but but but this is the thing who
Who died for the sins of angels?
Exactly. Did did jesus was jesus the son of the son of angels, right?
You know, he was the son of man and he died for the sins of men. Yeah, you know
He didn't die for the angels. So there's no one paid their sin. Yeah
You know, yeah, man, they're screwed. That's a that's a that's a stupid little cop-out to try to teach that
You gotta have faith with works
You know, I mean james they try to use that james chapter two
You know which proven over and over again and i've had i've had so many conversations with people like that
The you know, it's just your cliche people or like they'll come up with matthew seven
James chapter 10 or james chapter 2. Excuse me. And then what else?
matthew 7 james 2
And that's pretty much it actually. Yeah, never mind the whole book of john, right? Yeah. Yeah
Well, hey, I love james chapter 2. I love it
James chapter 2 is awesome. Hey, hey, I I believe I believe james
I agree with him when he says, you know faith without works is dead
But you know, I also agree with with paul when he said, you know
Faith without works in in romans chapter four still saves you. Yeah, so, you know, they agree
So are they saying that that these two disagree with each other that well, the problem is is that these guys they they
They think that sal the word salvation
Is just about justification of the soul throughout the bible
No exceptions, right?
It's like that's only for when it says saved
You know, it's only for the salvation of the soul
Nothing else so you just go down the list of every time it said saved and salvation
It can only be applied to that. It's like it's not the way it works. You gotta that's why context is important
Yeah, another example would be when they say, uh baptism for the remission of sins, right?
Not understanding that for there is being used as because right, you know because of the remission of sins go ahead and get baptized
Yeah, and this is you know, uh repent be baptized for the remission of sins
But this is the thing is is can turning does turning from sins remit sins, right? You know, if if I broke a law
Does does does not breaking that law in the future remit that that law that I broke?
No, it does not this is where that that the foolishness of this doctrine comes into play because then okay, if that's what you believe, okay
Then I mean, where's the end to all this then right like
So what sins do you have to repent of? Yeah
Like your specific sins
Or the sins or like, you know, or the sins that that that other people are guilty
I mean, what are you what are you specific to talking about? And then how many times you have to get baptized?
Because obviously we sin all the time
And if they believe you have to be baptized in order to be saved
Well, I mean you're gonna have to get you just gonna have to live in the baptism
You know, what about the thoughts that you've had that are sinful or the sins?
It comes down to boasting right so it comes down to boasting because because what they're really saying is that hey
If you don't live your life the way I do. Yeah, then you can't go to heaven
Hey folks, whosoever keep it the whole law you defend in one point is guilty of all so, you know
If you deny faith and you think you're saved that you're a boaster
This is what it is
Look if you have a criminal who committed murder and he's standing before the judge and the judge condemns him
If he says i'll never do it again
It's not going to take away the fact that he's going to be punished for the for that crime that he already committed
Right
You know that doesn't that doesn't change the past folks
I know i'm not a lady she was like
Get in the mic paul. Yeah
I was like, you know, uh for by grace how you say through faith and that not of yourselves is the gift of god
Not of works. Let's say you mentioned both and I was trying to explain to her
You know that that we don't have anything to boast about, you know, and she was like, she's like i'm not boasting
It's hard to keep the law
That's like the that's that's i'm not boasting but i'm a pretty hard worker i'm not gonna lie
Oh, that's like, okay, so
Speaking of boasting I was listening to that that phone conversation between bow and pastor pastor. Shelly boasting bow
He's like you're you're you're saying that i'm like I have this false humility. Look that's not false. This is real
You know, I got real humility. He's like
He's been practicing in the mirror
Some people have a hard time coming to grips with the fact that they're preaching sucks
You know if it sucks it sucks dude
Hey, you know no change boy. Hey, you know, no preacher in the bible sucks. You know what I mean?
You know, no preacher in the bible sucks, you know what I mean? So it's like so if you suck at preaching you know
You know
I guess you weren't called, you know
Hey, that was a prank call, you know
Hey, that's true though
As mark barfield would say 100
Remember no, it's funny that you bring him up because remember that prank call on mark. Oh, yeah, that was so funny
Oh, they got that guy good they got that guy good they got that guy good. I almost broke your mic
I wanted to piggy bank really quick one of my favorite verses with did he say piggy bank? I thought it was piggyback
I'm trying to steal my money. You trying to juke me man. You're saving that you're saving money in that piggy bank, baby
We got a federal reserve christian over here
Well people always taking every every verse that says save, you know to deal with salvation
My favorite one is in acts, you know
He says paul said to the centurion and to the soldiers except these abide in the ship. You cannot be saved
Except you abide in the ship that that's only for okay, so we're screwed in in in revelation
Where where the dead are being, you know, they're being uh called into the great white throne and they come up
Land of the sea those are the ones that are
If you live in the sea, you're subject to the salvation of abiding in the ship
I'm joking. I've never been on the ship
Preaching that sucks, okay
Something i've heard people say when they try to say jesus didn't go to hell is when he's talking to the thief on the cross
And he promises him that you'll be with me in paradise today. You'll be with me in paradise
And like that mixes up a lot of people yeah, you know when you have one bad doctrine like abraham's bosom
It leads into those weird things like oh, maybe we should
Baptize repeatedly or baptize for the dead or are we really saved? You know, how certain are you if you died?
Where would you go? Right, you know
Yeah, and here's the thing, you know
Today thou shalt be with me in paradise. It speaks to
The the fact that he's god
You know, that's what it speaks to because then you have to deny what the bible says that to be absent from the body
Is to be present with the lord
So, you know if he is in heaven, you know
By the way, jesus spoke about being in heaven even when he was on earth exactly
Right. No man had to send it up to heaven exactly
and so
You know, and by the way, it's most there's times where jesus spoke
Uh in the present tense as though he was already in heaven, you know exactly even when he talked
I mean throughout the bible you see that jesus christ who's the lamb of god slain, you know from the foundation of the world
You know, that's something that happened even prior to the establishment of time so to speak
So I think that's a lame argument, you know, yeah, it's just like oh today thou shalt be with me in abraham's bosom
So they take it as he went down there to abraham's bosom for three days and three nights. It's like
It doesn't work out. How is a holding cell paradise?
Next to hell
Robs, uh the beauty of of salvation too, you know today that shall be with me in paradise, you know
The thief on the cross getting saved right, you know being able to go, you know to heaven, you know
Because obviously that speaks to the trinity without shall be with me in paradise
So there's certain people in the bible they were just used greatly of god
Even though they messed up, you know, I talked about saul
on sunday morning how he's still being used to
to
To prove eternal security right because he committed suicide
And you think of someone like the thief on the cross who wasn't able to do much
He was hanging on the cross, you know, but he's a perfect example of someone, you know, who didn't get baptized
After he got saved and i've used that with people who believe in a baptism regeneration. They're like, well, he's the exception
There is no such thing as exceptions bro. No, that's crazy. I mean you're
You're looking at uh acts chapter 10 verse 47
Can any man forbid water that these should not be baptized which have received the holy ghost as well as we yeah
Do you guys already receive the holy ghost? Yeah, and what happens when you receive the holy ghost? Yeah, you're saved you're right
uh until when
until the day of redemption
Paul said god sent me not to baptize but to preach the gospel. That's my that's one of my favorite ones first corinthians like
it's just like, you know, if he if he's if he's saying that he's
You know, they they uh, woe is me if I preach not the gospel
And then he's saying in chapter one that you know that god sent them not to baptize but to preach the gospel
That's nail in the coffin case closed, man
So an attitude it's like it's like when jesus told his people like, um, um where he said that was a bad attitude
You don't know it. It's just it's a bad attitude because it's like he didn't like that point very much
No, because you you know when they agree to work for a penny for for the day, right?
Some people, you know, they work the whole day and those people come in and they work that last hour and they still get paid
the same wage right and and they and they murmured against it, but it's like, you know, it's like
Yeah, i'm not offended by that, you know, that's what that's what I hope. Yeah. I want people to be saved
I don't want to god is not willing that any should perish
But that all should come to repentance
You know, so why don't be like the jews folks
right
The jews are all mad that the gentiles are not
God's chosen people
and it's just like well if you're god's chosen people because you're already saved you should rejoice over the fact that
You know, the gospel is going around all around the world and people are believing on the lord. Yeah, they're not
I think it's in luke that when christ was given the parable
Of the vineyard and the husbandmen it was in that same hour that they sought to kill
Jesus, you know and I was actually listening to pastor. Uh
Jason is it rob robertson or robinson pastor robinson pastor rob mountain view baptist church was talking about how even the jews
Understood replacement theology. Yeah, because they were considering whether jesus was talking about them when he's taking
Saying that the vineyard is going to be taken from you and giving to somebody else
That hey the old ivb pastors don't even get this but the jews at that time got it. Yeah, that's good. That was a great point
Yeah, I love pastor robinson's preacher. He's he's a good preacher
He's good. That's that's a good point right there
That's pretty sad
They're like unsaved jews understood replacement theology better than most saved independent fundamental baptists do
It's a great doctrine replacement theology is a great doctrine. That's another thing that makes me grateful for salvation
You know ye are a chosen generation a royal priesthood
You know that we should show forth the praises of him who has called us out of darkness into his marvelous light
You know, he is not a jew
You listening everyone?
He is not a jew, which is one outwardly neither. Is that circumcision outward in the flesh made by hands?
He is a jew
Which is one inwardly
Circumcision is that of the heart and the spirit his praise is not a member of god
so
You're gonna have to refute that someone just got triggered
You might have to do it. You might have to do what pastor anderson does sometimes and just read it really really slow. Yeah
So
Someone out there someone out there just commented that we're anti-semitism
Is that who that lady is on that mean yeah that feminist the one with the hair with that
The care the care description though the care he's like the one with the nose. I think she has arms too
2005 like a woman haircut like
Yeah, dude, like that
Dude, I don't even know. I don't even know 2020 women
I don't keep
Okay
Oh
I know where you talk to the manager people. Yeah. Yeah talk to your manager people. Is that what you're talking about? Oh
That's got the karen. No
Yeah, it's the haircut that goes like this like a like like this right
It's almost as if they're they're like they're like give me give me a bowl cut
And then they just measured it wrong and they just kept going
You know something when you write on a blank sheet of paper and you're like writing you just go
And then when you look at it, it's like it has like a slant. That's how it is with their haircuts
That's just the barber fell asleep
Good stuff man anything else? What else we got?
Uh, we should just keep talking about replacement theology. Oh, yeah. Yeah. All right, you guys keep talking i'm gonna go i'll be back
It's crazy how many people are like really scared to to believe in replacement theology, you know
To say to say the jews aren't god's chosen people, but whoever believes
Is the chosen person or is the chosen nation? I think a lot of people that have that they're scared of them
Yeah, it's like a superstition, you know, because they were taught that you know, if you bless if you bless them
Then they're gonna then god's gonna bless you and if you curse them then god's gonna curse you
But even without cursing them even just saying well no i'm a jew because you know
They go contrary to the popular opinion. They know, you know, the jews are going to come get them at night
Yeah, that's a whole nother topic
That's a whole podcast but it's it's funny like how do how do you argue against you know, think not to say
Within yourself that you know, we have abraham so far, you know, so I say that god is able to don't raise
The children onto abraham. It's like how do you argue against that? You know, i've heard people try
To argue against that and try to interpret that differently or or just you know completely dismiss it. Jesus was ready to pick ross
starting from
even
Even with moses not even though he was already given up on these people
Yeah who want to create like another nation just out of moses?
You know
I don't even know how they use that chapter and they don't ask me because I mean, I don't know how because
First of all, it was to abraham which you know, there was no jews at the time
Which is ridiculous to use right but in galatians 3 16
It says now to abraham and his seed where the promise is made
He sayeth not to seeds as of many but as of one into thy seed, which is christ. So I mean
The blessings through jesus, what are they talking about? Have they not read that goes back to
Using false bible versions or using this commentary that you know, because they'll change it to descendants
Mm-hmm
And that's how that's how they try to justify they don't even want to be god's people the jews because jesus is god
so the only way that if you would say that all the
You would have to deny that jesus is god because they don't even want to be
God's people because they don't want to be jesus's people because they reject jesus because they hate him checkmate. So I just don't understand how
How you could say oh, they're god's people but isn't isn't jesus god. I mean, he's god, right?
He sure is so it's like how are they god's people when they don't want to be god they don't even want to be god's people
Yeah
How about romans 11? That's one of my favorite chapters when it comes to replacement theology
That's like the most savage chapter
One of the most savage chapters in regards to this. Let me read it says I say then hath god cast away his people
God forbid and that's where the chapter ends folks
According to most
You know those who who believe in zionism
Like that's that's their favorite. That's their live verse. Yeah, but we got to keep reading
For I also am an israelite of the seed of abraham with the tribe of benjamin. God hath not cast away his people
Which he foreknew?
Okay, by the way, the bible tells in romans chapter eight whom he foreknew then he also predestinated, right?
Then he also glorified and justified referring to safe people
It says what you not what the scripture saith of elias how he maketh intercessions to god against israel saying lord they
Who's they?
Israel, yep. Wait a minute. Hold on a second. Where's elijah from?
So he's making a distinction between the two groups
They have killed thy prophets and dig down thine altars and I am left alone and they they seek my life
But what saith the answer of god unto him?
I have reserved to myself seven thousand men who have not bowed the knee to the image of bales
What is he saying? There's seven thousand out there who are saved because anybody who bows to the image of bail
Is not saved
Right, they're not god's people because god's people worship the true god, okay
Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace
And then it says and if by grace and there's no more of works
Otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then there's no more grace. Otherwise work is no more work
What then here's the key keep verse israel hath not obtained that which is seeketh for but the election
Hath obtained it and the rest were blinded
Checkmate on those who believe that the jews are god's elect
And again keyword they're seeking for for example, we seek the truth. We find jesus. Yeah, are the jews seeking truth right now
No to find jesus. No, they can't even read the bible. They're blind
Spiritually, they have the veil over their eyes which will be done away
Once they turn to christ, right? That's what the bible teaches
So it says the rest were blinded according as it is written
God have given them the spirit of slumber eyes that they should not see
Ears that they should not hear unto this day now who is one of the most important characters in the old testament?
david
Right. I mean that they they admire david, okay
Well, they're not going to admire him too much after they find out what he just said right here, okay
And david sayeth
Let their table be made a snare
And a trap and a stumbling block and a recompense unto them let their eyes be darkened
That they may not see and bow down their back all the way by the way paul here is only quoting
A small portion of where this actually comes from because this comes from the book of psalms
And the rest of it actually talks about how he prays that they would they wouldn't even get saved
I mean he's saying, you know, let them not be written with the righteous let their names be blotted out of the book of life
That's some harsh stuff right there
You know, but even david said this, you know people get mad when we preach against the jews
David was more savage than we are they get more upset than the jews do right?
I think the nail in the coffin should be for most people it was for me definitely was in revelations 2 9 where it's jesus talking
Oh, yeah, and he's calling out people who say they're jews and are not but he doesn't stop there
He even calls them the synagogue of satan. Yep, and that lines up with when jesus called the the non-believing jews children of the devil
Yeah, john chapter eight it it didn't
There's no disconnect though. There's there's a consistency between you're you're either a jew or you're not and it's just a
It there's no disconnect though
There's there's a consistency between you're you're either a jew or you're not and it's not about your outward appearance your circumcision
It's what's on the inside?
Ye are of your father the devil and the lust of your father what you do
He was a murderer from the beginning and abode not in the truth for there is no truth in him
When he speaketh a lie speaketh of his own for he is a liar and the father of it
And he's speaking to the pharisees there
Revelation 2 is powerful
in fact, that's where we came up with our uh,
Our our code name for the jews, right?
The nicholaotans because I believe revelation 2 when it talks about the nicholaotans referring to the jews because the jews called they call themselves jews
You know
But what does god call them?
He calls them the nicholaotans my opinion. He was the hardest preacher. He was the hardest preacher against the jews hardest. I mean
I mean he cost him his life
That's how hard he preached against him. They he'd like they wanted to kill him
You know
By the way, uh plug in for revelation chapter 2. Make sure you uh, watch that sermon there. It's called the nicholaotans youtube fwbcla
This podcast is sponsored by first works baptist church
What what do you think the main reason is though that that it's it's like such a push theology to praise the jews
Is there like a motive people have behind that zionism is a major?
Key player in the establishment of the new world order if you really want to get into it, right, you know
and
Of course, we know that that really was pushed hard within the churches within the uh in the 1800s by dispensationalism
through uh
C.i scofield the ci scofield reference bible that was propagated through many churches and many people many pastors started adhering to
the pre-tribulation rapture
And zionism and just just in general what dispensationalism teaches. Yeah, there's a there's an agenda that's been around for many decades
and it's for the purpose of really
Watering down doctrine to the point where people have a good view so to speak of the jews
Whereas jews have been rejected by christians far and wide for many years many centuries. Yeah, not only just christians, you know countries. Yeah countries
They were kicked out of how many countries?
Too many too many
They had to make the research
One too many it goes back so far we're going to look it up right now
How many countries have the jews been banned from okay having kicked out of
Marcus is looking up karen right now. It's about a thousand a.d that uh edward longshanks of england
You know decreed and he kicked the jews out of england. Okay, yeah
That's because he had long legs he was a savage good thing that guy doesn't have a mic
But you know, he did that because the people just pressured so hard so before him
You know the people just pressured so hard to get rid of the jews out of out of england
And then when he came along, I mean he just he instituted it
109 countries
I know what are you looking at? Are you on instagram or what?
He's like in post right now
They got kicked out of more countries than there are countries countries came and went
Just
Yeah at the time they started getting kicked out there wasn't even that many countries why did they get kicked out of these countries for why
Usury usury. They're the only religion. They're the only religion at that time, right?
So when everyone's christian, they don't practice usury because the bible says to not practice usury and they they bring the practice of usury
They reject the bible, right? All right, so it's robbing everybody, right?
They're still robbing us today
Yeah
The roth childs
Yeah, amen
That's good stuff. That was good point. It's like to discuss
This manner of replacement theology even the jews up there at the top, you know, they control the financial system so on and so forth
Even they I think in their heart of heart
They have a heart they they know
They're not even jews. They're really the children of satan, you know
I think they could care less if we call them jew or not
You know
Yeah
Yeah, they hate the lord
And obviously there's there's jews out there who don't hate the lord. Yeah, you know, there's still hope for some you know what I mean?
Yeah, I was talking about those really up there, you know
even there's some that are down here too like those who attend synagogues and
They adhere to the talmud and you know, they love it and hey god, they hate god, you know
They exist but you know, so, you know that there's jews out there also that they're probably open to the gospels
Yeah, it's but it's like with every other false religion. You got to get the ones who like backslid them from their
Denomination or whatever, you know, right? You're not going to win a hardcore mormon to the lord hardcore. Jehovah's witness to the lord
you know, you got to get those who have been like
Out of that congregation for quite some time and maybe they're not they're starting to reject it a little bit, you know
Because those who are deeply into it they're already deceived I mean if they're already faithful to that that way of thinking
You know what I mean?
so
What else we got?
Is that pretty much it or does that wrap up the the podcast or we got something else? What's going on keith?
those those were the main two just for the the testing but I think
um
It's really good to just talk about it and just even bring up replacement theology and bring up
Did jesus go to hell because those are those aren't uh?
Believing like I said, but believing jesus went to hell isn't a salvation issue for a lot of people
It's just a matter of understanding
Yeah, bible issue, right and if you show people clear verses then if they don't believe it after that
That's when I would kind of question. Okay. Well at what point do you believe what it says, right?
You know, are you saved by grace through faith or are you not right? You know, you have to start questioning that so
Well, I mean if someone doesn't believe that jesus went to hell, you know, obviously they can still be saved
You know what I mean? And even if they choose not to believe that they're after
It doesn't really tamper with salvation, but it does tamper with like how well do you know the bible?
Right, it's like someone who believes in the pre-tribulation rapture, you know, that's what you want to believe, right?
But you know
If a pastor advocates for the pre-tribulation rapture and is just completely for it you kind of you kind of question
You know their knowledge of the bible
You know what I mean? It's like someone asked me one time
It's like would you ever send out if you think pre-tribulation rapture is a non-essential?
Would you send out a pastor that believes in the pre-tribulation rapture? No
Because you just basically proven that you don't really know the bible
And I think also you're not you're not schooled in this matter of end times bible prophecy, especially, you know, how many pastors?
uh
Are really kind of just don't know about the pre-trib rapture versus how many pastor are like willingly ignorant of it or
Choosing to compromise on this subject knowing that hey, you know what it's an unpopular
Belief and maybe i'll start being associated with a certain pastor out there
Or is the congregation going to leave so on and so forth? You know, here's the levels. Okay, you have the dipsticks
Like like sluder who's just a devil
You're just a reprobate
devil dyke looking
Pillsbury dough boy
Rosie o'donnell
Siamese twins, okay, you have
that guy
And then you have those who are just they're safe, but they're just ignorant of the issue
you have those who are
They're saved. They're not ignorant of the issue, but they prefer just to just
You know out of sight out of mind
then you have those who
They see it. They love the truth and they're post-trib, but they're closet post-tribbers
They don't want to associate with new eye fears. They don't even want to preach post-trib pre-rats from the pulpit
They don't want the controversy and then you have those who just embrace it and they become frustrated with the rest of the people
Before them and then they end up joining the movement
because you want to you want to you you want to talk about that stuff like
You know, if you start studying end times bible prophecy and the post-trib pre-rats you want to talk about other people who like
Know about it, you know, like I would get frustrated when people don't want to talk about end times bible prophecy
In my old church
It's like this, you know, they don't want to talk about these things and they're like, well, you know
That's we need to focus on that which is most important so many which yeah. Amen
But you know what revelation is here for a reason the god put in the bible
You know what I mean? Like this is something that we should openly talk about preach about embrace accept
You know what I mean and promote
So that's why we're teaching through the book of revelation
The book of revelation amen
Amen
Yeah, it's thursday
It's uh, the destruction of babylon revelation 18, son
Yeah
All right, so that's pretty much it right? We're gonna wrap this up. Yeah
Well, thank you all for tuning in to the rod of iron podcast show
I'm, not your host, but I am the pastor pastor bruce mejia
Joined with uh, brother hiktoff mason raymond flores keith revis paul
Quesada marco sanchez ulysses hernandez and date. What's your last name? David?
Flores, well, that's easy
Yeah, you guys related or something or what?
So I hope you guys tune in
This is uh, I don't know if this is going to go on youtube
It might go on youtube because it was a pretty decent discussion
And I think it was pretty fun. And so we're going to be doing this on a weekly basis. See you on
The next show god bless you. Have a good one. You guys got any last words?
Yeah as it fades away
All right
So
You