Thanks for joining us for the Baptist Bias. I'm your host, Pastor Shelley, and we've got an exciting show.
We're going to be talking about the Southern Baptist Convention.
And even though they're Baptists, they still have a lot of issues that I think are really important for us to expose this evening.
And we're going to get kicked off with our Benalog.
Well done, good and faithful slave. Share your master's joy.
That's what Greg Mott hopes God will say to him one day.
Greg pastors First Baptist Church in Houston, which is affiliated with the Southern Baptist Convention.
And he once called out the 2011 edition of the NIV for using the word servant.
In fact, many SBC pastors have denounced the NIV for its gender neutrality,
but also more specifically because of its usage of the word servant.
They prefer slaves in their Bible.
I'm not saying they want actual slaves in their backyard.
I mean, what church denomination would actually fight for the right
to have black people that they own as property picking cotton in their backyard?
Oh wait, that's why the Southern Baptist Convention exists!
They split from their Northern Baptist brethren
so that their slave-owning missionaries can get paid.
That's kind of awkward.
The King James Bible uses the word slave two times,
yet the Holman Christchurch Standard Bible of the SBC uses the word slave 314 times.
But don't worry, that's only a 15,000% increase.
Now in all fairness to the Southern Baptist Convention,
they did apologize for their racist roots in 1995,
which means that it only took them about 154 years to figure out that it was wrong.
Additionally, the official doctrinal statement of the SBC states
that in order to be saved, you have to genuinely turn from your sins.
Not just be willing, not trying, you have to genuinely stop sinning.
My thought is, did the SBC genuinely turn from their roots of glorifying slavery?
Consider that only 16 years after their apology,
they wanted more slaves in their Bible.
If Joe Biden claims the Georgia voter ID law makes Jim Crow look like Jim Eagle,
then what would that make this? Jim pterodactyl?
Wait a minute, does that mean that they aren't even saved themselves?
I mean, if you have to genuinely stop sinning to be saved, is anyone saved?
Perhaps that's why the Southern Baptist Bible also says in Matthew chapter 7,
how narrow is the gate and difficult the road that leads to life.
And if you find it, if you're confused and thought that salvation was easy,
free, and not about slavery,
perhaps you've been reading the King James Bible.
And if not, you need to get the Baptist Bias.
Thanks for joining us again, the Baptist Bias.
I'm your host, Pastor Shelley,
and we're talking about the Southern Baptist Convention.
And again, like I said, even though they have Baptist in the name,
are they really Baptist?
And I think for our Benalog, man, there was some spicy content in there,
but we're going to prove all of that information with facts, with cold hard facts.
And I challenge the listener, if you already don't like the topic,
if you already feel offended, please just listen to the content.
Please listen to the facts and be willing to change your opinion
based on what the Bible says because ultimately the Bible is our final authority,
not man, not some doctrinal statement, not some creed,
but truly the Word of God is what we're supposed to judge everything by.
And the Southern Baptist Convention while being one of the largest denominations
in the United States, excluding Catholics, of course,
because they're not even Christian, it really has a lot of problems.
And of course, the devil is going to attack anything with Baptist in the name.
That's why we have the Baptist biases because it's the truth,
but even many masquerade with the truth claiming to be Baptist.
Well, we have on our show our best co-host, Ben the Baptist.
Why don't you say hello to us?
Thanks, Pastor Shelley, and thank you all for tuning in here.
It's March 22nd, 2022,
and you're right where you should be tuning in for another edition of The Baptist Bias
as we are on our second to last episode of this season.
And we have the season finale coming up next Tuesday,
so make sure you tune in for that.
But I'm really excited about the show tonight.
We're talking about the Southern Baptist Convention,
and I like the word you used there, masquerade.
I mean, they're sort of masquerading as Baptists.
We'll be talking about the problems associated
with this denomination.
We'll be talking about some of their very serious heresies.
And hopefully by the end of the broadcast this evening,
you'll walk away with the impression
that you ought to be an independent, fundamental
Baptist rather than a Southern Baptist,
that that's where you find yourself today.
And the reason why is because it's
the IFB that would adhere to the word of God
as its final authority rather than whatever the SBC
adheres to, the Holman Christian Standard
quote-unquote Bible.
There's a lot to cover tonight.
I think you could do multiple podcasts on this topic.
And so we'll do our best to make sure we get everything
here on this episode.
But there will be some things that we leave out
just because of the nature of the time constraint.
But Pastor Shelley, I think that we've got so much to cover.
Might as well just dive right into it.
Yeah, I mean, drive the train here.
Definitely a lot more than we could ever cover.
There's so many Southern Baptist churches
that are a part of this convention.
Isn't the number 50,000, something like that?
It's something like that.
It's almost like 50,000 churches.
I believe it's 15 million members.
And so it's wide reaching.
You can find a Southern Baptist church just pretty much
anywhere on the map.
In fact, I've looked it up in the Dallas-Fort Worth area.
There's approximately 1,600 Southern Baptist churches
in the general Dallas-Fort Worth area.
And I kind of think I looked at maybe a 50-mile radius.
So it would be a little bit outside, you know, places
like Mansfield, Decatur, Denton.
But just in that general conglomerate, 1,600 churches.
That's a lot of churches.
This has a big influence in the Southern Baptist Convention.
And you know, the masquerading is real evident when we look at a lot of these churches and
a lot of these pastors that they're actually removing "Baptist" from the name.
So they're in a group called the Southern Baptist Convention, yet their churches, they're
literally renaming them, taking "Baptist" out, just basically making it grace or fellowship
or you know, even more absurd names than that.
And you know, I want to reclaim the "Baptist" name, you know.
I don't think very many Southern Baptists are going to be able to wear the shirt that
my wife got me.
She got me this really awesome shirt.
I'm gonna move the mic for a second.
But look at this shirt, evicted.
You know, how many Southern Baptist churches are getting evicted for what they preach?
And of course, obviously, they probably own their own building, we get that.
But at the same time, they're not even making headlines for the controversial stuff they're
saying against the world. They're typically making headlines for agreeing with the world
or being too much like the world, not opposing the world anymore. And so it's really important
that we delineate the difference between a Southern Baptist church and an independent
Baptist church. And you know, me growing up, I didn't even know that there was such
thing as an independent Baptist church. I grew up in the Texas area. And I thought every church
was like a Southern Baptist church. I thought that was basically the only option. But there is other
types of Baptist churches. Independent Baptist churches basically do not associate with any kind
of association convention or anything like that. They are just like the word says, independent.
Whereas the Southern Baptist is a conglomerate of many Baptist churches. They pay dues to the
convention. They work together on missions. They have a combined doctrinal statement. They
vote in a president. They also have mission boards where they have presidents in them.
And so it's definitely a little bit different. And one thing that I've always brought up when
talking about the SBC is when do you ever see a committee or the majority or a large group
being the source of morality, truth, leadership. Typically, you kind of see one man in the Bible
as the arbiter of truth, the one bringing people back to the right way. Anytime there's this
committee and group, it seems like everything gets watered down and brought to the lowest common
denominator. Is there an example you can think of in the Bible, brother Ben, where there's just like
this huge group and then they all got it right. They're all on the right side. I mean nothing that
comes to my head right now. The only thing I could think of is just Judges chapter like 19 and 20.
You kind of see like all of the tribes going against Benjamin. But it's because it's like
the worst crime ever. It's like you can get everyone to agree on the absolute worst abomination and
crime. But outside of that, I mean, it's even hard to get all these different people to agree.
You know, it's it's really doesn't make any sense to try and get that many people to all line up on
the scripture because not that many people care. Not that many people are interested in the Word
of God. Yeah, there's a lot of apathy. And that's one of the main reasons why people believe that
we're splitting hairs when we make a podcast like this. And we point out the doctrinal errors of
the SBC, and we point out how they're wrong on salvation, how they're wrong on repentance,
how they're adding works to the gospel, and how huge, how severe, how crucial that is.
You know, how important this topic is. This is a very, very important podcast because,
and you mentioned this in the open, you brought up 50,000 churches that are a part of this
denomination. And in fact, you're right about that. This is according to numbers that were
brought up in 2018. So it's a few years old, but still, it says as of 2018, according to this
Google search I just did while you were talking, there were 47,456, so about 50,000, Southern
Baptist churches spread across 41 state conventions according to the denomination. So you have that
many churches. You have so many, a plethora of people who are going to these churches.
You would think then that they would want to listen to something like this and see,
okay, wait a minute here. What are some of the issues that they're going to bring up on this
live stream? If a group this large is wrong on the gospel or that their website is wrong
on the gospel, if they're teaching something damnable with regard to how to get to heaven,
that is very important. That is crucial. That is something you need to pay attention to.
Well, I think we definitely need to address that. Yeah. And let's see if we can pull that up.
Do we have the... Let's see if we can get... I don't think we told our production crew about
this. So you weren't going to look this up while we're kind of talking about it. But if you have
the Baptist Faith and Message 2000, the Baptist Faith and Message 2000, if we can pull this up.
Yeah, we have it in our notes, but we don't have it. I want to see if we can get the reference
pulled up on the screen too. If you want to get it pulled up on the screen. And just so you all
are aware, you can call in. This is a live show. It's 231-Baptist. 231-Baptist. Call in and we'll
put you on the show. Also, if you have any comments or any questions, you can put them
in the live chat. We're checking YouTube's live chat. So if you want to check us out on the
YouTube show, we'll check out your comments. We might be able to bring them up while we're on the
air. So while we get that pulled up, Pastor Shelley, did you want to talk about the origins
of the SBC for a few moments? Because it has a very strange birth, I think you could say,
in the sense that they split from Northern Baptist Churches over a disagreement on slave-owning
missionaries. Also, the North wanted to be more loosely associated rather than a
full-on denomination like the SBC eventually turned into. But what can you
tell the audience about? And you preached a sermon about this a number of years ago,
I believe, you can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe it was your first year as a pastor
in 2018 where you preached a sermon about the Southern Baptist Convention. I listened to it
recently and you went through and you talked about the origins, you talked about how they had a
meeting in what was it 1845 or something like that? 1845 meeting in order to form the organization
that we now know as the Southern Baptist Convention. So if there's something you wanted
to share perhaps about the origins of this group that might be useful before we get into
some of the doctrines, that could be a good place to start. Yeah and I'll just give a really high
level view, but essentially in America in the 1600s when the colonies are being formed you have
the Baptist nomination coming over here. Some would attribute Roger Williams as the first
Baptist and I preached whole sermons on kind of the generations and where Baptist came from.
It even ties back further to a guy named John Smith over in Europe but essentially the Baptist
churches in America first coming out there's only a handful. They kind of started forming an alliance,
forming a convention, forming kind of coalition and it eventually was you know I don't know if
I can remember the name off offhand but you can look this up. It's something like the Northern
Baptist or something like that essentially. But over time there became a lot more churches
involved and you had both the northern states and the southern states kind of having the civil war,
having a lot of tension over issues like slavery. Well it got to a point where the Northern Baptist
churches were no longer willing to support a missionary that owned slaves. They basically
said that person's not qualified to be a missionary that we're going to give money to to go out and
preach the gospel because they find it morally reprehensible that anyone would own slaves and
especially then be the representation for a missionary. And so essentially the northern
churches said we no longer will pay for slave owning missionaries. Now the southern Baptist
churches then said this is an attack on the gospel for some reason and so they broke out off from the
northern baptist and they they formed the southern baptist convention 1845 and it literally in their
charter and in their documentation they literally are saying we are doing this because our slave
owning missionaries are not getting funded in order to be a missionary which is the thing to
be a missionary all you have to do is have a king james bible on your hand you don't you don't need
to get paid number one and number two like who isn't against slavery but obviously at that point
in time and in history a lot of southerners believed in slavery they they twisted the bible
to their own convenience so the origin of the southern baptist convention is literally coming
from slave foundation that's that's the whole reason it even exists and and it's kind of bizarre
that that's not even brought up nobody's educating anybody on this but of course you know you don't
really want to necessarily if you're in the sbc point that out because that's going to not win
over anybody realizing that you you started based on the premise of slavery being so important to
you that you literally have to divide and break fellowship with other churches so that you can
pay for these missionaries that have slaves but as you go through the history they have different
doctrinal statements and they had a couple in the 1900s and they didn't do it very often. They
had like a 1963 version I believe. I think there's like an older one then there's like a 1960s,
63 and then there's the 2000 version which is the most up-to-date most recent doctrinal statement
that they have. But if you look at this, if you pull this up and you can go to the SBC website,
you can look at their doctrinal statements. In the 2000, Baptist Faith and Message,
it says in the salvation section, it kind of has a few different paragraphs about salvation
specifically. But when it's talking about regeneration, it brings up repentance and
specifically then it defines repentance. It says, and this is A, so this is of salvation.
They're talking about letter A, regeneration, just talking about the new birth, how you get saved,
being born again. It says that repentance and faith are inseparable experiences of grace.
And then it defines for you what repentance is. It says repentance is a genuine turning from sin
toward God. So in their doctrinal statement right off the bat, it literally says repentance is a
genuine turning from sin toward God. Now turning from sin is very clearly not sinning. That would
be no more lying, no more stealing, no more adultery, no more fornication. But you know,
the Bible lists a lot of things as sin, not just fornication, adultery, murder. It says the thought
of foolishness is sin. The Bible says that if you look upon you know the opposite gender, a woman
with lust, you're committing adultery with her in your heart. The Bible makes it abundantly clear
that just any kind of lying is a sin. I mean the Bible says just hating someone for the wrong reason
would be a sin. So if we were honest with ourselves we probably sin multiple times every single day,
even the best of us. This is a preposterous idea to say that anyone has genuinely turned from sin.
It doesn't say like want to turn from sin. It doesn't say being willing to turn from sin.
It doesn't say, you know, hope so. Maybe it says a genuine turning from sin. I would love to know
what prideful, arrogant person can literally say I've completely turned from sin. I no longer sin
and it's completely genuine. I mean, this appeals to the prideful, to the arrogant,
to those that are honestly just lying hypocrites because no one has genuinely turned from sin.
And James chapter 2 verse 10 says, "If someone were to keep the whole law yet offended one point,
he is guilty of all." So according to the Bible, it doesn't take a lot of sin to get into heaven.
It doesn't take a lifestyle of sin to get in. I'm sorry, let me word that differently.
It doesn't take a lot of sin to go to hell. It doesn't take a life full of sin to go to hell.
It takes one sin. And anybody that is trusting anything other than the finished work of Jesus
Christ is death, burial and resurrection. If they think that they're genuine turning from sin or
they're turning from sin or adding repentance to their gospel gets them into heaven, they're not
even saved. They don't even know what the gospel is because the repentance necessary for salvation
is not a turning from sin. It's a turning from trusting in yourself to be saved. I would say
this, it's a repenting of repenting of your sin as necessary for the gospel, rejecting that and
believing it's faith alone that saves you. The Bible makes it abundantly clear. Sirs, what must
I do to be saved? Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved. John 3 16,
whosoever believeth. The Bible says in John 3 15, whosoever believeth. The Bible says in John 3 36
that when you believe you have everlasting life, hath its present tense. The Bible says over and
over that it's faith, it's by grace, it's not of works as any man should boast. Romans 3 28 says,
therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. Meaning that
no deed, no genuine returning, turning from repenting or repenting of sin, genuine turning
from sin has anything to do with salvation. Why is it that all of these Baptists got together
and literally put that in their doctrinal statement? It tells me that there's some tears
amongst the wheat. And I do want to say this before we get a little bit too deep in this.
And I've got a little bit of a monologue here but I do not believe that every Southern Baptist
is like an unsaved heretic devil. I believe that there's a lot of saved people that go to a Southern
Baptist church. In fact, it's probably one of the top denominations you're going to find people that
are even saved. A lot of people genuinely love the Lord. And not all Southern Baptist churches
are the same. Since you have 50,000, some are crazy extreme liberal and others are very
conservative and more traditional. And so obviously, we're going to be preying with a
little bit of a broad brush here this evening. But I would not associate myself or be in a
convention that has a doctrinal statement where we're talking about the most important doctrine.
Salvation literally teaches a false gospel, teaches a workspace salvation. Galatians makes
this abundantly clear that we're not allowed to tolerate any kind of perversion of the gospel,
no matter how minute it may seem on the surface. And this is not a minute difference. Ben,
what do you think about this genuine turning away from sin for salvation?
I think it's damnable heresy. I think it's work salvation. I think that it is anti-biblical.
And so this is the reason why we're doing a podcast like this is to warn people,
you know, I love those who would go to this church. I don't love those who are the false prophets,
but the people who are being deceived, I want them to be exposed to the truth and understand
exactly what they're walking into with regard to the SBC. You mentioned a lot there. You kind of
unloaded the truck here to start the podcast off. And I appreciate that you did that though.
I want to go back and forth a little more often.
No, I mean, there's a lot there. I want to, I want to address repentance,
but I also, you said something about slavery that I needed to respond to. In Exodus 21 verse 16,
the Bible says, the man that wander, I'm sorry, Exodus, I'm in Proverbs. Good night. My apologies.
Let me go to Exodus. You know, someone put this in the comments. It's pretty funny. And I didn't
think about this. A really famous Southern Baptist is Jack Hiles. Jack Hiles was an ordained
Southern Baptist preacher and then left the Southern Baptist and became an independent Baptist.
Others like J. Frank Norris in the Dallas forward area and both Hiles and J. Frank Norris were in
the Dallas forward area. Hiles eventually went to Hammond, Indiana, but they were former Southern
Baptist and they left the convention because they realized it was rotten. They realized there was
problems. I think J. Frank Norris might've even been just kicked out. So, you know, I don't know
about how exactly that unfolded, but I am illustrating that it's not like everyone in
there is bad. In fact, a lot of great people have been in there. Our goal is just to expose
that it's so rotten that the good people need to get out. They need to withdraw themselves
from this false doctrine and the false teaching and stay true to Baptist doctrine because it's
unchanging. And, you know, slavery was always wrong. You know, it's not like some people say
like, "Oh, the Bible used to teach slavery was good." No, no, no, the Bible never taught
that slavery was good. Ben's going to read us a really good verse here. Why don't you give us...
Exodus 21, 16. It says, "And he that stealeth the man and selleth him, or if it be found at his
hand, he shall surely be put to death." Clearly this condemns the type of slavery that the United
States was guilty of, that America was guilty of in the past, and that a lot of people would twist
the Bible to say, you know, that the Bible endorses this when it actually does not. We have a very
clear verse showing that those who would steal another individual to sell them, that that person
would be worthy of the death penalty, and we can talk a little bit more about that when we get into
the Holman Christian Standard Bible, because of course it's not just the doctrines that are wrong,
but also when it comes to the SBC, they use a false Bible version. They use a very bad
mistranslation of the Bible that actually is based on corrupt manuscripts, and we can get into that
a little bit later on. I don't want to get ahead of myself. I also want to point out, because we
brought up what their doctrinal statement says, and it talks about repentance there. It calls it
a genuine turning from sin, repenting of all your sin to be saved. This is a heresy that isn't
exclusive to the SPC. You see a lot of churches that parrot this talking point, including some
independent fundamental Baptist churches. It's not like they're all right either. Some of those
are ran by heretics. Some of those are ran by false prophets. Jonah chapter 3, it says in verse 10,
"And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way, and God repented of the evil that
He had said that He would do unto them, and He did it not." So we have two doctrines that you can
get out of this verse, two conclusions you could draw from this verse. First of all, it said that
God saw their works that they turned from their evil way. So if the Southern Baptist Convention
is saying that you have to repent of your sins or turn from your sins in order to go to heaven,
well that is defined according to Jonah chapter 3, verse 10, as works. So that would be a work
salvation. In addition, we see that God repented here in this verse, meaning that the word
repentance is neutral. So the point I'm trying to make is it's defined by its context. Obviously,
when God is repenting, he's not repenting of sin because he has no sin. And a really good
way to prove this, that it's a neutral word, is in Jeremiah 18. I believe it's in verse number 10.
It says, "And if it do evil in my sight, that it obey not my voice,
then I will repent of the good, wherewith I said I would benefit them." So on salvation, yes,
repentance is necessary, but what repentance are we talking about? People think that the word repent
automatically means to repent of sins or to repent of something evil, but here we have God
repenting of the good. You can repent of good things as well. You can repent of soul winning.
You can repent of going to church. You can repent of reading your Bible. Is that repentance necessary
to go to heaven? Obviously not. What are we talking about when it comes to repentance
in the context of salvation? Well, I believe that you've got Matthew chapter 21 verse 32 that gives
us an example and it says, "For John came unto you in the way of righteousness, and he believed him
not, but the publicans and the harlots believed him. And ye, when ye had seen it, repented not
afterwards, that ye might believe him." Regarding salvation, in the context of going to heaven,
repentance is simply turning from unbelief to belief, turning from whatever you're trusting
now to get you to heaven to trusting only in the Lord Jesus Christ, which is why the Bible says,
"The time is fulfilled and the kingdom of God is at hand." Repent ye and believe the gospel,
turn from whatever it is that you're trusting now and instead believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.
In Acts chapter 20 verse 21, testifying both to the Jews and also to the Greeks,
repentance toward God and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ. So I think I've made the point.
We have God repenting, which proves that the word repent does not always mean repetitive sins or
else God would be a sinner. We have the Ninevites in Jonah chapter 3 verse 10 turning from their
evil way. It says God saw their works, so turning from your sin would actually be a works-based
salvation if that's what was required for you to get to heaven. And then we also see how that word
is actually used in the New Testament. In terms of getting saved, it's turning from unbelief to
belief. And Pastor Shelley, it's unfortunate, but a lot of people use this phrase "repent of your
sins" including the Southern Baptist Convention, including their individual churches, and we see it
on the doctrinal statement there. And it's like they, out of one side of their mouth, they say
salvation is a free gift, all you have to do is believe, but then they say you have to repent of
your sins. It's this weird cognitive dissonance. Yeah, it's just really, it's similar to just
someone that doesn't know what they're talking about. They repeat talking points without actually
slowing down and actually understanding the words that are coming out of their mouth,
desiring to be teachers, understanding neither what they say, nor where they affirm. That's
what the Bible brings up about false teachers, is that they'll say a lot of things that they
actually have no idea what it really means. And I have to believe that a majority or a large
swath of these preachers that are saying both, they say salvation is a free gift and you've got
to genuinely turn away from your sins, they're not saved. They don't even know what they're talking
about. It is possible that someone could use the wrong phrase terminology and kind of have redefined
it in their mind or other people kind of trick them about what they're meaning. And I've heard
people say repent of your sins and then you kind of tie them down and they kind of wiggle out of
some kind of a damnable heresy. But the Southern Baptist Convention here on their doctoral statement
isn't being vague. I almost feel like they're making it overly clear. A genuine turning away
from something. I mean, that's not like an accidental phrase that you just kind of mean
something else. I mean, I don't know, see how you could ever turn that into salvation by faith.
Like that is just so clear, not salvation by faith that I don't see how any honest person could
read that and say, yep, they believe salvation by faith alone of grace alone, no works. I mean,
that is about as hardcore as you get. I mean, other than just saying like it takes full blown
works to get saved. I mean, I just don't know what they could say for you to literally say
they're teaching false doctrine here. Especially when you look at that through the lenses of Jonah
310. I mean, is that not works? This is such damn little heresy. Now, we have so much to cover.
I think we, you know, definitely want to cover some other things. But this is the most important
point, folks. If, if there's any reason to leave a church or a convention, it has to be on the
salvation issue. I mean, there's no other issue that's more important. I know we already have a
couple of callers on the line. And I want to get to you guys in just a second. And hopefully our
callers, if they've had any experience with SPC, maybe they can share some of their experience with
us. But we also brought up the Bible translation issue. And I think that I think this is an
important point too, because obviously, if you're tampering with the Bible, it's going to be easy
to also then tamper with salvation. And one of the verses you brought up in your Binalogue,
Matthew 714, which you know, the King James Bible says straight is the gate and narrows the way which
leadeth on the life and few there be that find it. And when the Bible says straight, it's a little
bit different spelling than, you know, being a homo, you know, that's not we're not talking
about that kind of straight. We're talking about something being narrow, it's S-T-R-A-I-T, which
is a synonym for narrow. So the Bible is just saying it into saying the same thing twice to
give you a really clear picture of what it's talking about. Essentially, it would be narrow
is the way, narrow is the way, straight is the way, straight is the way. It's just kind of saying
that it's a small sliver of the way that you actually get to heaven. And that makes perfect
sense if the only way to get to heaven is Jesus Christ. I mean, he said, "I am the way, the truth,
the life, no man cometh unto the father but by me." That sounds pretty straight. I mean,
in the sense that there's only one way, it's pretty narrow when you have one option. I mean,
could it get any narrower than that? If it's getting narrower, then there's no way to heaven,
right? So it's saying there is a way and it's as narrow as it could possibly be in the sense that
there's only one option. It's either faith in Christ or nothing. It's not faith plus baptism.
That's not going to get you there. It's not faith plus your church attendance. And it's certainly
not faith plus genuinely turning away from all of your sin. That's a completely different path
that will not lead you to heaven, will lead you straight to hell just like the atheist, Muslim,
and Hindu. And so in the Holman Christian Standard Bible though, which is a version that's
sponsored by the Southern Baptist Convention, they kind of own a Christian publishing company,
Lifeway, I believe is what it is. And they have a lot of publications. They didn't like some of the
modern versions. So they made their own, the Holman Christian Standard Bible. And in Matthew
714, you had read it for us, but it said difficult. Narrow is the gate and difficult the road that
leads to life and few find it. Now there's a huge difference between a road being really narrow
and it being really difficult. And in fact, if you look at the John MacArthur Study Bible,
he has a New King James Study Bible. In this verse, it says the same thing in the New King
James as a difficult. He literally teaches that salvation is difficult. Now here's the thing,
how difficult is it for you to one time put your faith in Jesus Christ by calling upon name of the
Lord? I have to say that has to be one of the most easy things you could ever do. And of course,
if God loves us, why would he want the road to heaven to be so difficult? You know, the only
difficulty in regards to salvation was what Jesus had to do for us. But you know what he did the
hard part so that we could do the easy part, simply trusting in him and him carrying us
all the way through his bloody cross. What blasphemy to say that what Jesus did is basically
muted by our own self effort and works of going through this difficult road of repentance in
order to get to heaven. That is works based salvation and anyone who believes that is not
saved. They need to get the gospel preached to them and hopefully from a King James Bible
so they don't have the gospel corrupted for them. I mean, I see a pattern here. Corrupt Bible,
corrupt gospel. But a lot of people don't even realize this. They're not even on the King James
Bible. This isn't just a Holman Christian Standard Bible issue. This is in every modern Bible version
issue, isn't it Ben? Yeah, the Holman Christian Standard Bible actually sounds a lot like all the
other ones. It sounds like the NIV, the NLT, even the new King James you brought up uses the same
verbiage in Matthew 7-14. The John MacArthur footnote makes it even worse, but to me there's two
lessons you could take from Matthew 7-14. Jesus is the only way, but also that few, the quantity,
not the quality, but the quantity of people who are going to be saved in the grand scheme of things,
right? There aren't going to be that many people who get saved because many are trusting in their
own works when you have an entire denomination like the SBC pushing a repent of your sins gospel
then that further proves the point. But it's about the quantity, Matthew 7 14, not the quality of the
works involved by the individuals who are going down the narrow path to salvation. It has nothing
to do with that. The hard part was accomplished by the Lord Jesus Christ at Calvary, but you also
have 1 Corinthians 1 18 which turns salvation into a process. It says in their HCSB corruption,
for the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but it is God's power
to us who are being saved. Now the last time I checked it's believe on the Lord Jesus Christ
and thou shalt be saved. The last time I checked it's done. You know in Titus chapter number three,
not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us with a d
at the end. Amen. That's the last time you know when I read through some of those salvific passages
in the King James Bible. That's what I read last time I looked through it. It's because that's what
the Bible teaches. You're saved with a d at the end. For by grace are ye saved with a d at the end.
This is not a process. It's not a lifestyle. It's not something that takes a long time. It occurs
in the twinkling of an eye. The second that you decide to place all your faith and trust and rely
and depend on the Lord Jesus Christ, you are saved. You have eternal life. You have the Holy Ghost
sealed inside you. And the Holman Christian Standard Bible takes this essential doctrine
of the faith, one of the foundations of the faith, and corrupts it. What a shame.
Well, and the King James in the verse you read, it doesn't say being saved. It says are saved.
Exactly. So it's a completely different understanding.
Thank you for bringing that up. And you know, it's just some people say,
oh, these modern versions, they don't, they don't change any important doctrine.
But we've just brought up literally verses that are used to twist the gospel and to pervert the
gospel, mentioning that it's a process. I've heard preachers preach being saved is a part
of salvation that it's a process. So this isn't just a straw man argument. I have heard preachers
get up and preach these things. And you know, when you have a denomination that has a Christian
bookstore, literally Lifeway is like they're kind of associated with the Southern Baptist
Convention. They're producing all these materials. You know, they don't hold back
on what versions they use, even though they might say, "Hey, you know, we prefer the Home of
Christ the Saint or Bible." They'll still sell you an NIV though. They'll still sell you ESV.
They'll still sell you all these modern versions. And in fact, what's really interesting, growing up,
I've seen kind of an evolution in these because when you used to go to Lifeway, it only had
Christian material. But at some point, and I don't know the exact timeline here,
you'd have to look it up. But eventually, you know what they also started selling?
Catholic paraphernalia. And so literally now they've kind of divided their stores,
a lot of these Christian stores like Mardel and Lifeway. And one side is like the Catholic
section. Another side is like the Christian section. They literally have idols. I mean,
they have the graven images and they have the crucifixes and they have all this stuff in there
that you can buy. And I'm thinking like, how is this part of the gospels like selling idols
to Catholics who aren't even saved? I'm just thinking like, how far are you going to go?
I mean, at what point do you say this is not even Christianity anymore? This is not even the gospel.
But obviously, the love of money is the root of all evil. And so it's important that people
realize that the devil often does not necessarily just go from A to Z. It goes to A, B, C, D. So you
see this progression, you see this slow deterioration, you know, corruption takes, you know, time.
The devil is not going to necessarily throw the frog in a pot of boiling water. He's going to
slowly turn up the heat. And with the Southern Baptist Convention, I've seen through the even
in my own lifetime, a deterioration, a falling away. And the Bible teaches that there will be a
literal falling away before the coming of Christ. So why would I not be leery of the biggest
denominations, these biggest groups making a lot of these changes? How do I not know that they're
just following hook, line, sinker for the anti-Christ agenda? That's why it's important to
make sure that you have a Bible that doesn't change like the King James Bible, which was
translated in 1611. And while the spellings were updated in 1769, same Bible, same words.
And now I have a King James Bible in my hand right here. It's 2022 in America. And guess what? It
still says the same thing as all the other versions. Now, of course, you know, sometimes
printing errors creep into any Bible of any translation. That's the only thing that's really
been updated in King James Bibles is the various printing errors and typographical errors. But
when we're talking about the words, they haven't changed for over 400 years. They're still the
same thing. God's Word doesn't change. Obviously, we translate it from Greek and Hebrew. But that
was necessary because how could an English person get the Bible if they don't speak Greek and Hebrew?
It's translated in English. But it's already been translated. We don't need to constantly translate
it over and over and over again and try to get closer to what God said. No, we have what God said
is in the King James Bible. A child can understand the King James Bible today. They can memorize it.
It's precious unto them. And it's an important distinction to realize you need to treasure what
God actually said, not get these corrupted versions that are based on completely different
manuscripts, completely different history, completely different origin. They're not even
complete. If you look in the NIV, it takes out 16 whole verses. A lot of these phrases have been
changed and maligned. And I think a lot of people are just ignorant of what's going on because
they've just been lied to their whole life. And they don't want to think that their pastor or the
people in their church are doing anything wrong because they're a good hearted person. Yeah. And
it's kind of, it's kind of sick when you think about it, like the people that you trust, the
people you grow up with, the people that you love, that they could be wrong on some of these
issues. They could have taught you things that are wrong. They could be going down a wrong path.
You know, it's kind of a scary proposition. If it's true, you need to figure it out and
get on the right path. You don't want to just follow well-intentioned people down the wrong
path. You want to make sure you're following Christ and you're following Him on the narrow
and straight path. I like that we're starting off with two of the most important issues here.
Yeah. Which is salvation and the Bible version they're using. Now the publishers claim that they
wanted to basically provide the English-speaking people across the world with an accurate,
readable Bible in contemporary English. And some may point to the HCSB and think, well,
it's easier than the King James. Well, that's not the case. Daniel 3.3, the King James uses
the very difficult word "princes." Well, that's changed in the HCSB to "satraps" because what I
think of the word "princes," I think that is way too archaic. I'd rather say "satraps." They get
rid of "hell." They instead use the word "Hades," the transliteration of the Greek word, and there
are a lot of other examples where they're taking an easy King James word, and like the word "boat,"
turning it into "skiff" is another example. They take something that's easy and the King James,
they make it more difficult, so it's actually not really easier to read. That's a lie. But also,
the idea that it really doesn't make that big of a difference. All right, fine, you pointed out the
repentance of sins, but why are you picking on the HCSB? Well, here's why. The Holman Christian
Standard Bible, I'm going to go rapid fire here, the Holman Christian Standard Bible replaces the
word "Lord" with "Yahweh." What's the point of something like that? Is that simply to make it
easier to read? There seems to be a nefarious purpose for some of these edits. How about this
one? The Holman Christian Standard Bible, just like other modern versions, it removes the verse
that we would use as a proof text, rather, that we would use as a proof text for the Trinity.
1 John chapter number five verse seven simply becomes, "And the King James is for there are
three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost, and these three are one."
And in the modern perversions of Scripture, and here in the HCSB, it's no different,
it simply turns into, "For there are three that testify," almost as if it's like some sort of
T.D. Jake's quote or something like that. "There are three that testify! Somebody give me an amen!"
Like really? What happened to the iconic proof text for the Trinity that you see in the real Bible?
Well, the Trinity is an important doctrine. Yeah. And it's something that's under attack.
And I believe that the Trinity is a salvific doctrine. It's one where if you're off on the
Trinity, I don't believe you have the same Christ. And if you're not trusting the right Christ,
you're not even saved. And that's a great point with these is that this is attacking salvation,
specifically. I think we even have a clip on some of these teachings from the Southern Baptist.
Do you think we should play one of these? I know you've got some clips for us. I think
there's like a repentance clip that we have that we can play. Can we get that pulled up?
Let's go with let me see here. I think there's a false view of repentance. Is that do we have?
Well, we've got Ed Litton. He's their current president and he talks about and this is a
sermon about repentance. Okay, so this is their president. Yeah, he's talking about like how
salvation is always accompanied by works. If you don't have works, you're not truly saved,
etc. So we could go ahead and play that one here. Ed Litton, salvation always accompanied by works.
Now he became the president of the Southern Baptist Convention in June of 2021. Recently
announced that he's not going to run for re-election or whatever word would be appropriate
to use there. But let's listen to him define what true salvation really looks like in his opinion.
So if God is going to judge by my works, is God going to judge by my works or by the motivation
of my heart? The answer is yes. Pay close attention, we are saved by grace through faith
and not our works. What you believe leads us to a heart change. If you believe upon the Lord Jesus
Christ, he gives you the Holy Spirit to change your heart internally. With that change comes a
change in actions in your life. Charles Haddon Spurgeon believed that you are not likely saved
if you never care to share the gospel with anybody. Wow. Conversion is not church membership.
Conversion is not baptism. It's not serving. Conversion is the Holy Spirit taking residents
and president of your heart and changing you from the inside out. Has that ever happened?
Well, you know, again, these clips are just confusing because he's saying, you know,
salvation is just, you know, faith and it's not our works. He literally read that from the corrupt
version, which still says the same thing though. That is, you know, saying not of works. But then
he's saying, oh, well, let's quote Spurgeon and Spurgeon saying, if you didn't give the gospel to
anybody in your life, then you're not even saved. You know, well, I think that there's a lot of
people who are saved who've probably never given the gospel to someone or gotten them saved.
You know, the Bible literally even brings it up in the parable of the sower that the majority
are not giving the gospel. You got those that are immediately offended, they're not giving the
gospel. You got those that got the word being choked, they're not giving the gospel. So in
the parable of the sower, you got four groups. The first group's not saved. The second group's saved
but just doesn't serve God at all. The third group, they kind of try but then they just kind
of fall away because the world's too important to them. Kind of like demons have forsaken me,
having loved this present world and has departed on Thessalonica. And then you finally got a fourth
group. The last group is the one that's bearing fruit. And in fact, it doesn't say they got one
person saved. It says 30, 60, 100. So, you know, if we're going to go with that logic, we got to
say, well, unless you're getting 30 people saved, then you're not even saved, which would be a
preposterous suggestion if the Bible says salvation is by faith. Now, I believe that the Holy Spirit
dwells inside of us the moment we get saved and it's drawing us to follow Christ, be more like
Christ, crucify the flesh, do that which is right. But you know, you can resist that. You can still
walk in the flesh. Otherwise, Romans seven would make no sense. They're on the Romans expedition.
Why aren't they reading what Paul had to say about himself?
So this is a positive idea. And of course, when you're reading these false versions, you're
in this convention where you say both it's free gift, but you got to genuinely turn away from
your sins. They got to kind of preach both. I mean, I don't do you feel like you understand
even at all what that guy believes? It's a contradiction. If salvation is not by
works, but if you don't have the works, if you're not giving the gospel, you're not saved, then
you're still being justified by your works. It's this lordship salvation muddying the waters,
and it should be no surprise considering they're preaching from a false Bible version
from which you can derive this heresy. I mean, in Proverbs 16, 6, it says that wickedness is atoned
for by loyalty in the HCSB. We already talked about what it does to 1 Corinthians 1, 18 and
Matthew 7, 14. And so it's easy for them to twist the truth when they have a Bible that makes it,
that makes it, you know, that enables them rather, is what I'm trying to say. It enables them to do
so, this false version that they're using. But think about Lot. Think about, you know, Demas
in the New Testament. Think about King Saul. You know, he murdered God's priests through Doag,
the Edomite. He killed himself. But then, according to 1 Samuel chapter 28 verse 19,
he went to heaven. Well, when did Saul give the gospel to anybody? And when did he give the
gospel? There are so many different backslidden Christians. Solomon, at the end of his life,
you know, with all those wives and concubines, I mean, could be another example. I mean, how many
people is Lot getting saved? Lot, it doesn't seem like he got anybody saved in Sodom. And there are
a lot of backslidden Christians in scripture who we know went to heaven. So you have that. You have,
you know, obviously you have Romans chapter 4, "But to him that worketh not, but believeth in him
that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness." And people might want to play
devil's advocate with that and say, "Well, the works there, the worketh not, is only in reference
to something that happens prior to salvation." Well, I don't get that from the plain reading of
the text. The plain reading of the text is telling me that if you have no works, whether it's before
or after salvation, that you're saved, that you will go to heaven, even as David also described
it, "the blessedness of the man unto whom God imputeth righteousness without work, saying blessed
are they whose iniquities are forgiven and whose sins are covered. Blessed is the man to whom the
Lord will not impute sin." And so the Bible makes it abundantly clear that whether you have the works
after you get saved or before is irrelevant, because it's simply just by faith. And I believe
that on this issue it is a lack of understanding of the doctrine of the old man and the new man.
Those who recognize the difference between the old man and the new man will realize that works
do not come automatically because they come through the agency of the believer choosing
to walk in the spirit, to walk in the new man and consequently exhibit good works.
Whereas if they choose through their own agency to walk in the flesh, then they will exhibit the
works of the flesh. Well you know what I'm thinking about this clip and this is kind of my on the fly
parable so help me if it doesn't make sense but this is how I liken his preaching. It would be if
I said hey Ben got this really awesome party that I want to invite you to. It's got everything you
could ever want, all the food, we're gonna have a great time, it's the greatest place you could ever
show up at, it's gonna be at the coolest mansion in the area and it's completely free. Okay all you
have to do is is when you show up say pastor Shelley's got me you know pastor Shelley said
I could come it's free and he said he's paid for it so you get to come in and I say but I also want
to tell you something else Ben everyone that comes to this party they give a $50,000 donation before
they show up and and wouldn't you think like but is it free yeah it's a it's completely free you
don't have to pay anything but everyone that's at the party made the $50,000 donation you would
kind of think like so do I have to make the $50,000 donation no no no no no Ben you don't
have to make the $50,000 donation but everyone that's going to the party everyone that's going
to actually make it to the party gave a $50,000 donation before they showed up and of course
what are you going to do you're going to have people show up at the door and they're going
to say yeah why should I let you in and they're going to say uh well I made a $50,000 donation
and then the guy's going to be like well that's not enough the price it was priceless you can't
pay that it was actually 50 trillion dollars that in order to get into this party and you're like
I don't got 50 trillion dollars and so you're going to come short and they're going to not you're not
going to be in the party the same with salvation a lot of people are going to show up and they're
thinking that it was their good efforts their good works and they're going to get and stand before
God and they're going to say hey haven't we done all these wonderful works and he's going to say
depart from me I never knew you because it's trusting in Jesus that gets you into heaven.
Now of course in my parable there's nothing wrong with giving a donation and of course we should
you know do works for God but if it was truly free then you would say look it's a free party
can show up if you'd like to give a dollar you can you could give five dollars fifty thousand
even if you give zero dollars just show up and say you know pastor Shelley paid for me I'm
getting in. Okay and someone's going to twist this and be like oh pastor Shelley's saying he's Jesus.
I'm not Jesus. I didn't you know pay for the salvation. I'm just using this as a parable so
bear with me. What do you think about this parable? Wouldn't you be confused thinking
that you had to give this $50,000 donation now? Yeah so it would be required of me it seems based
on the parable to pay all this money even though it was on the onset branded as free in order to
attend and that's what they're doing to the gospel. It's free you just have to believe however if you
don't exhibit works afterward automatically if you're not giving the gospel to people
then you were never saved to begin with. So we actually are adding works in a roundabout way
when they teach that. It is it's extremely confusing and like I said I believe it is a twisting
and or misunderstanding or intentional omission of the doctrine of the old man versus the new man
which tells us specifically that if you walk in the flesh you're going to exhibit the works of
the flesh. If you walk in the spirit you'll exhibit the fruit of the spirit but it's dependent on your
free will and it's almost Calvinistic to say exactly that the works will come as automatically
automatically. Yeah and I mean he he talked about it being the motivation of your heart so it gets
you saved and I agree with that because you know it's not that doing good works is going to get
you out of heaven or something. It's like why are you doing the good works? Are you doing them
because you're genuinely thankful that you're getting into this awesome party called heaven
or are you doing it as your ticket as your price to get in and that's really what separates the
wheat from the chaff. Cain you know he gave a sacrifice unto the Lord. Abel gave a sacrifice
on the Lord. One was accepted, one wasn't. What was the difference? It was the motivation.
You know one's doing it by the offering his works and the other one's offering a sacrifice
and if you offer your works, you're not getting in. It's not some sacrifice, some works or a
little bit of both or I had them. It's just like Abel offered a hundred percent sacrifice, saved.
And if you add anything other than sacrifice, if you add anything other than the death,
bone resurrection of Jesus Christ and your faith in him alone, you're not saved. You're not getting
into the door. You will come short. Now I think we have a couple of callers on the line. I know
we've been kind of at least a few. I don't know how many we have. We might not get to all of them
this evening, but I think we have a Robert that's calling in. He's from Florida. Some people like
that state. I do. One of my favorite states. In fact, some beautiful state. Yeah. Some people
are weird that live in Florida and then they moved to Texas, you know, and they got a Florida rise,
you know, Texas, you know, better than California. I think fluoride, fluoridizing, fluoridizing,
Texas. You're falling. I thought they were doing that to our water or something. Yeah. Okay.
Fluoridating. Well, we've got Robert on the line. Hey, Robert, why don't you say hi?
Robert, don't blow it. Hey. Hey, there he is. Hey, how's it going? Good. How are you? How you
doing? Are you from Florida? Awesome. We're having a good night. Awesome. Well, we're talking about
the Southern Baptist Convention. Do you have any thoughts for us? Yeah, I went to a Southern
Baptist Church for five years, actually. And so I've got a good bit of experience with them.
Well, tell us what it was like. Yeah. So as you mentioned earlier, you know, some of them have
the right gospel. Not all of them are these repenting your sins heretics. But so the one
that I went to had the right gospel and I got saved in there. But my criticism would be just
how weak of a church it was. You know, I had a family full of unsaved people after going there
for five years. You know, all my brothers, none of them got saved then. My dad didn't get saved
going to this church for five years. And this was something I had to kind of identify more recently.
And thankfully, they're all saved now. But it's just one of the things I would want to point out
essentially would be the fruit of the Southern Baptist Convention is just there's not really
much from it. You know, pretty much all the fruit that you see comes from independent
fundamental Baptist churches with soul winning and with the King James Bible.
Well, wait a minute. So I want to make sure I understand this. Your whole family is going to
a Southern Baptist Church and then you get saved there, but they're not saved? Like,
was someone at the church? Many of them did not.
How did you get saved then? Did someone in that church get you saved or did you get saved
while attending, but from some other source? Yeah, so I personally went up to the pastor
and I asked him and he only gave me a handful of verses. So again, it was not very strong.
Okay. You know, like, I mean, like I said, they did make progress. So my dad got on
faith alone, but he didn't have what they'd always say. And so like I had to tell him,
you know, it's not about not committing suicide or not committing murder because he had that
Catholic background. I had to show him all that stuff later. So it was kind of, like I said,
just very watered down church, a very weak gospel, poor presentation. You know, it basically,
I was one of those like act 16 cases, but you know, everyone else doesn't really all that
interested. So you like approached your pastor, you're asking him how to get saved. And then
he's giving you the gospel like one on one kind of, but yeah, to the rest of your church,
if they're not asking, they're basically not figuring it out or getting it.
Yeah, essentially, like there'd be every once in a while, like, and I never even found any of this
because I was in like a Sunday school, but my mom told me that every once in a while, they would
do a gospel sermon. But other than that, there was no soul winning, none of that kind of stuff.
Well, then how did your family get saved? Did you confront them yourself or did this
pastor talk to them or what happened? Yeah, so my mom was an independent
fundamental Baptist before. We went to the Trinity, she got saved there,
but she married a Catholic and all that kind of stuff. But I personally led two of my brothers
and my dad to the Lord. And then the third one got saved actually by watching Pastor Anderson.
And I didn't realize that they weren't saved until maybe eight months ago.
Well, praise the Lord. That's awesome. I needed to actually preach them.
Well, what was the motivation? Like, why did you decide to, you know, check their salvation,
get them saved? Where'd you learn that from? So I actually came across Pastor Anderson in 2017,
just by accident. Autoplay was on on YouTube, and then No World Order Bible versions played.
That's the first time I ever learned about independent fundamental baptism. And I kind
of got all on board on that after a while. But essentially, I had some people on Twitter,
I joined the Baptist group chat, and they actually pressured me to get into church
and actually start, you know, getting right with God, change career plans, all that kind of stuff.
And so it was only then that I really took that stuff seriously, started questioning my family,
and I realized that because I thought they were before I got there, I thought they would have.
But that's basically how it happened. That's how I learned that a soul win is all mine through
Pastor Anderson. And I got into a soul winning church took me like a month.
Well, that's great. And, you know, it's sometimes intimidating, you know, especially if your
family's already going to a quote unquote, Baptist church, you know, whether that be Southern or not,
to see if they're saved. But it's sad how many people go to a church, even a Baptist church,
and they're still just not even saved. They really haven't changed their mind,
they're still trusting in their works, they're trusting in themselves, or they're confused about
the gospel. And we find over here, doing some soul winning, we ran into a lot of Southern Baptists
that simply say, going to heaven is being a good person. Have you done any soul winning outside
of your family in that area? Oh, absolutely.
Yeah, I've done a lot of soul winning. So do you run into other Southern Baptists,
like when you talk to just people out in the neighborhood?
Yeah, absolutely. In fact, the first Baptist I ever knocked the door on said you had to be
a good person. And so that was like a wake up call, you know what I mean?
Isn't that crazy? Yeah, absolutely. I was not expecting it.
I think that people, I think that soul winning changes your mind about so many things because
you finally get confronted with what people actually believe and you start realizing like,
a lot of these people aren't even saved. What do you think, Ben?
Have you run into some Southern Baptists while giving the gospel out or preaching the gospel?
I've ran into people who've identified themselves as Baptists. They said that they go to a Baptist
church. I wasn't able to confirm whether it was SBC or not, but for sure, you'll meet a lot of
people who would claim to go to a Baptist church or even claim to have been Baptist for their entire
lives and yet they give you an answer on salvation and the gospel that isn't even anywhere near right.
And it kind of leaves you flabbergasted like, well, hold on a minute. I thought you went to a Baptist
church. I thought Baptist churches were supposed to be clear on this issue. I thought that this
would be something you could understand quickly, that you would have given me the answer that was
right, etc. But unfortunately, and I think we see it in the SBC and we see it even in independent
fundamental Baptist circles as well, where they're not very meticulous about this doctrine, which
you would think of all the doctrines in the world that you would emphasize would be salvation, would
be the gospel of all the doctrines of the world that you would want to hammer in to make sure your
church understands it would be how to go to heaven. But unfortunately, when you go out so when you
meet people who go to seemingly good churches, or churches that use the Baptist name, and yet
they're not saved and it's sad. Well, and I think we should challenge our audience. If anybody is
like Robert, they're going to a Baptist church, but they've never talked to their family members
or friends that go to their church about salvation that they need to do it because
it's a sad reality and you don't want to be at the great white throne judgment and be surprised
by a family member there and think like, man, I never gave them the gospel. I never even
just double checked. I mean, what could be more important than checking that your family and
your friends are on the way to heaven? And I understand it's intimidating.
I've tried to preach to family members and stuff and try to get them saved and
I find it's way more difficult and intimidating to give them the gospel but I still find it super
important. What about you, Robert? Would you say that preaching to families easier or harder
than like going out and talking to strangers? I would say harder but yeah, I would say it was
harder but what it kind of did was it made me want to practice on other people first. That way I
wouldn't screw up on the important ones so it got me on soul winning. Well and I think if you can do
it to your family then you should realize how much easier it is to just go out and talk to strangers
and just anybody and everybody that you find going on the highways and hedges and that's great. Now
when you went to the Southern Baptist Church, I've been to Southern Baptist Churches where
the pastor seems saved, seems to have the right gospel but what what version of the Bible were
they using? So I think that they were doing the ESB but it has been a few years you know it might
have been the NIB or whatever. I was given an NIB but once I saw Pastor Anderson's documentary,
I just threw that away but so I like I definitely Christians get mixed up on that stuff. It doesn't
mean that they're necessarily unsaved you know you could technically save someone with another
version but if it's a different message okay it's not the same thing. Sure well and I've seen a lot
of Southern Baptist churches are pretty Calvinistic too so. Oh yeah that was actually one of the
things I wanted to talk about. Well share. Yeah yeah so I've got right here an article that I
pulled up and so it says here first Calvinist led churches are in the minority. Well the number is
increasing. Second oh wait sorry that was the wrong portion. Here it is my bad. Well around 10 percent
of rank-and-file Southern Baptist pastors will consider themselves to be five point Calvinists.
So five point not three point or anything like that or anything less. A sizable portion 29 percent
of recent seminary graduates would identify themselves in that particular way and in fact
over 60 percent of graduates in one of our seminaries identify themselves as five point
Calvinists and this is from thebaptistprof.com. Oh wow. Now I think I've seen other articles and
we could fact check this but I've seen something similar to like the 10 percent five point but I
think if it was like three point it was like almost half. Like I think like almost half of
the Southern Baptist convention would say they're Calvinist to some degree, some shade or former
fashion. But the five point is really extreme. There's a particular university, Southern Baptist
Theological Seminary, it's Kentucky. That is pumping out five point Calvinists for sure.
And these people that are five point, I don't even think they're saved personally. They're so
screwed up on works and what it takes to even be saved. What do you think about these five point
Calvinists Ben? I would agree. I don't think, I mean it becomes a salvation issue when you get
into the lordship stuff. You get into the lordship salvation looking at people's lifestyle and
determining that they don't have enough works to get to heaven. That's really what it comes down
to because in their mind they would say that you would have to endure to the end to be saved. That
is a prerequisite for salvation is did you endure to the end? I would agree if we're just simply
talking about did you believe on the Lord Jesus Christ? Did you like become an atheist? Then you
were never saved to begin with if you became an atheist or a Muslim or something like that.
But what they mean by that is did you continue to have works to the end of your life? Did you keep
serving God? Did you keep going to church to the end of your life? And you know I get that people
can be mixed up on that and I'm not trying to throw all of them into hell. Like I understand
that people can think that well there's going to be some change but if you really pin them down
if you ask them well if all I did was believe in Jesus but didn't do the works would I go to heaven
they would say yes but a lot of these people that are crossing the line of damnable heresy
would respond absolutely not if you don't have the works you're not saved and that's kind of
where I would draw the line so I want to be careful with that I don't want people to think
that I'm just throwing everybody into hell who's slightly off on the works as evidence doctrine
but there is a line and I think that Ed listen Lytton excuse me he uh crossed it for sure
well and you know you have a lot of five point Calvinists they'll kind of say things like I
didn't even believe like they'll say you know you don't even believe to get saved God just chooses
you he just elects you and then he gives you this faith and or they'll say that believing is a work
I've even heard them try to say like that's stupid believing in Jesus is a word great comfort says
that so then you obviously have to have works to be saved you have people talking about this radical
change too or you're you know you just everything's completely different I think we have a clip on that
from David Platt where he kind of described he uses a horrible analogy yeah the gospel have you
heard of this David Platt Robert no I've never heard of him I think he was the president of the
inner international missions board for the SBC at one point and author am I right did he write
some yeah I think wrote a book called radical I think he has a couple books maybe he's a pastor
of a church in Alabama which I don't know how you how do you feel about Alabama you're in Florida
is there like a rivalry there or something I mean I lived there for like a year and my grandparents
are there so it's kind of soft what about you is it is Alabama Florida is it no I like Alabama
okay I don't get into the whole can we play the David Platt clip real quick I think
I think Robert can hear it too video or whatever came on my face but it was just blank stage and
five ten fifteen minutes go by you're sitting there and it's awkward and then all of a sudden
I come running out on stage and I say I'm sorry I'm here late I was kind of out of breath I was
coming over here today driving over here on the interstate and I had a flat tire and got out and
fixed the flat tire but I accidentally stepped out into the middle of the interstate and this
this mack truck hit me going head on it hurt but but I got up and uh finished fixing the tire and
got back in the car and drove so I apologized for being late now if this was the story I would I
would tell I told you then you would you would know one of two things either number one I'm lying
or number two I am very deceived and you know that because when somebody gets hit by a mat truck
they look they look different than they did before based on that reality I'm pretty sure I'm on safe
ground and saying that when a person comes face to face with God in the flesh to save your king
and sovereign lord and he reaches down into your heart and saves you from the clutches of sin
and self you're going to look different you're gonna look really different everything changes
when you follow this king someone put in the comments when did David or Daniel Tosh get called
to preach he does kind of remind me of uh Tosh 2.0 or whatever um sorry i think Robert you couldn't
hear that clip but i'll kind of break it down are you still on the line with us okay so basically
David Platt gets up and he says you know what if i got hit by a mack truck i think i would look
different and and if i walked in here and i said i just got hit by a mack truck 15 minutes ago on
the highway you know and i had no scrapes or bruises or i looked the exact same you wouldn't
believe me you'd think i was lying and he relates that to the gospel saying that if you get saved
you know you're just going to look so different it's going to be so obvious that you you know
basically had god save you that you couldn't lie about it like it's just too it's just too apparent
but but here's the thing what's so stupid about this analogy is the fact that there has to be
saved people in the world okay number one and number two yeah i guarantee if i walked into any
store any business on this planet and someone had just got hit by a mack truck 15 minutes ago which
of course they'd be a flattened pancake they wouldn't even be able to stand there i would
be able to tell but you know what i've never seen somebody in my entire life that i looked at him i
thought like wow that person's been hit by a mack truck of the gospel i mean have you ever seen
someone and they're just glowing with salvation i mean they're just so physically evident their
salvation the same as someone having been smashed by a giant semi truck going 70 miles an hour on
the highway 90 here in texas and it's just like of course not i mean isn't this the dumbest analogy
you could possibly get even outside of the theological ramifications just the fact that
i've never seen someone that looks that much different and how does he look different wearing
his pink little collar t-shirt or whatever collared shirt or whatever looking like a college
frat boy or something like that are we supposed to believe he's just this separated gospel anointed
man of god he looks like he just came from a frat party yeah and i'm supposed to think like
this guy's been hit by a mack truck of the gospel of jesus christ his whiny little pathetic analogy
doesn't work on me i can't believe other people fall for this junk well if you get hit by a mack
truck your like your body's destroyed like i don't even understand the point like it's a it's a
change for the worse it's not a change for the better you come up with a better analogy if you
try to say that it's a change for the better but it's like this fake sort of piety he has this he
has this piety about him he he pedestalizes himself by teaching this doctrine almost implying that
well he's the standard he really changed he really is saved because he changed your penitent of all
his sins it's like well hold on a minute when did the flesh get saved it's your soul and your
spirit that goes to heaven the reason why the flesh still has blemishes it goes into the ground
eventually is because not the flesh that gets saved the flesh goes out of the ground the flesh
sins the flesh is the old man well maybe maybe we just can't see it oh yeah i mean there you go hey
robert have you seen anybody hit with a mat truck of the of the gospel now most people i've seen get
saved for the most part they don't even like go to church or anything it's like oh well that's
relief they say that they believe and you know that's about it you know now people who go to
church you know maybe they maybe they were more convicted to go and do that but it's you saw
free will it's still like it's not batteries included you have to actually force yourself to
do it right walk in the spirit and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh yeah what analogy
in the bible though like in salvation to death by truck you know like you know the bible talks
about being born again which is like a positive thing getting a life you know being risen from
the dead like everything in the bible is like this positive hit he likens the gospel into getting
hit by a semi truck yeah i've never heard anybody say that was a positive thing no it's never
thirsting again never hungering again it's always this positive thing drinking water why do they
always have to come up with these stupid analogies and then it's like an anvil falling dying dying
get you know shooting animals or you know another you know this one right here with this guy getting
run over by a mack truck false prophets tend to come up with the worst analogies on salvation
it's a common denominator between all of them and plat is no different well it's only gonna
reach the prideful who said you know what that is me i was just i was just living this life of sin
despair and now i'm just it's like a mack truck of repenting of sin and i'm just so holy and so
righteous now i mean that's what you'd have to believe about yourself to even kind of fall for
this stupid narrative or or that i guess you see that and of course you know i'm not taking away
from the fact that some people do make radical changes in their life you know praise the lord
if someone was on drugs or living a life of fornication or basically a deadbeat and now
they're like working hard and serving god and and basically making a 180 and of course that can
happen and we hope that it always happens but it would be just asinine to suggest that that
always happens or we see something and of course using this over the top example of something that's
so obvious you couldn't even deny it with your eyes and then you know likening that onto salvation
which is not a physical thing anyways it's a spiritual thing so you know it really it's
really just frustrating how many people fall for this stuff hook line you know and sinker.
pastor you know what happened to me when i got saved i woke up out of bed the next morning
i started singing some hymns real loud i went soul winning for three or four hours
i read my bible for another six hours i went to church that evening i read my bible another four
hours afterward i went home went to bed woke up the next morning and started the process all over
again is that not lordship salvation i mean i have a nonsense is that i certainly don't remember my
self that much detail but you know obviously there's been people in our churches that have made
radical transformations like that and yet they still believe salvations is free as uh you know
air is free as oxygen while it's still free i don't know if it's free everywhere in the world
anymore but i was trying to like think of something that's what's what else is what's
why we're free than oxygen i mean oxygen is the only thing left these days that's free with today's
economy yeah pretty sure it's gonna i was ripping off a pastor anderson sermon there the point i'm
trying to make is it sounds ridiculous i just i got saved and i woke up sort of singing hymns
it's like that's basically what they're saying obviously i'm exaggerating but that's essentially
the idea is you get up out of what you know you're saved and then you just all of a sudden the works
come automatically when it's work right it takes your free will it takes you deciding not to yield
to the flesh and you know the people who teach this doctrine they come off as so prideful so
prideful well robert i really appreciate you sharing that uh information with this i know
you you wanted to bring up the calvinist slant was there something more you wanted to say about
calvinism no i mainly wanted to uh i have a quick quote from matthew seven and this is usually where
they'll kind of talk about this whole um you know the the fruit of the spirit is how you judge
everything but you know it's worth knowing this is for something specifically for false prophets
and it's also it's got a double you know a double meaning here where it's also helpful
as you would see when i read it so i'll just do that really quick it says
beware of false prophets which come to you in cheap clothing but inwardly are ravening wolves
you shall know them by their fruits too many gather grapes of thorns or figs or figs of thistle
even so every good tree bringeth good bring it forth good fruit but a corrupt tree bring it
forth evil fruit a good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit neither can a corrupt tree bring forth
good fruit every tree must bring it bring it not forth good fruit is hewn down and cast into the
fire wherefore by the fruits you shall know them so you know a false prophet by the fruits and
my question is what is the fruit of the southern baptist convention you know where's their soul
winning where's their bible where's their great doctrine and their preaching you don't really
get any of that and additionally that's the application you identify a false prophet you
don't identify just some random joshmo to check if he's saved by the recruit and so well i i
definitely agree uh with your sentiments there and you know at least it's encouraging to know
there's still some people in the southern baptist that are saved they still could get someone saved
and you know i think that some of these southern baptist churches are still getting you know some
of their children saved and um maybe they're reaching new people every once in a while getting
them saved and i don't want people to think that you have to be an independent baptist to get
someone saved but it just feels like there's a lot of tears in the wheat of the southern
baptist convention a lot of people they're mixing in works and they're choking the the handful of
of good preachers in those denominations and really our call is to take that guy that got you saved
and say look why don't you leave the southern baptist convention get a king james bible start
soul winning and and get more people saved you know why didn't that light a fire under this guy
that basically you have robert fall into his lap saying sirs what must i do to be saved
like wouldn't you think wow that was actually pretty cool maybe i should try that with someone
else or is it this calvinist doctrine though that basically suggests the only people are going to
get saved are like robert where they basically are coming and begging for you to get saved but
i would almost venture that that guy has only had a handful of people that are like robert coming
and begging for salvation and you know the bible says in roman's chapter number 10 that he was
found of them that sought me not you know it's important to also go and find people that weren't
ever going to knock your door not find you and ask you about salvation but rather you confront
them with the gospel are you still going to the sbc church or you found like a better church in
your area or i'm going to a wonderful old afri church you know lots of soul winning and all that
so you know i love my church so i'm going to right now do you want to you want to plug your
church so somebody in the area can find it um i'm not sure if they'd really want to be associated
with you i just don't want to bring i understand anything it's okay it's all right yeah well you
know what maybe if you find robert on the internet and uh you're in florida maybe you can hit him up
and uh you know you guys can uh go soul winning together um there's definitely a lot of good
churches out there and uh you know we don't want to we don't want people to just feel like you have
to go to one church to be saved or a specific church to be saved but you know what you need
to still get that baptist bias and praise the lord you got a church out there that's going soul winning
it's firing you up i'm sure you're also learning a lot more too what would you say about just overall
doctrine uh from this church versus your southern baptist church it's not even comparable you know
the the first time that i ever heard any preaching on job and elijah very major characters was
actually in 20 like 21 from pastor anderson and so then i didn't learn about any of those characters
growing up even though i went to church you know from nine to you know 19 and so it just shows you
how weak these people are in the doctrine and all the stories it's just they stick to the book of
john they stick to the new testament when there's these great and wonderful characters you know
besides david and goliath and the old testament yeah well we really appreciate you being on here
uh brother robert and uh god bless you out there keep keeps going soul winning it's really
encouraging to hear that your family got saved uh that you care enough and and uh that you also
care about strangers out there i hope that your story can motivate other people to share the
gospel with their family confront them and just even confront strangers amen thank you to that
yeah god bless you have a good night so ben we've covered a lot of topics is there is there another
one that you kind of had that you wanted us to address i know we're we've been on the we've been
doing the show for a little while now so i want to make sure if we had something else that's kind of
important well this is not obviously one of the fundamentals of the faith or anything like that
but we do have the southern baptist convention softening their stance on the sodomites big time
and we could play that clip and kind of talk about it a little bit here before we round things out
we do have a couple other callers we need to get to but uh let's go ahead and if you want to play
well i want to bring up some of these crazy examples of southern baptists because i know
he said the guy was saved yeah and just but there's definitely ones that are not saved
and and some even heretics can we talk about some of them too yeah let's do it so who do you got
well i think some people get surprised by this but there is a guy in the dallas forward area
his name is ed young and he has a really large church so not not every southern baptist church
is going to say baptist on the name his church is called fellowship church so just on the surface
like how would you know it's like you know or something else or even as a southern baptist but
if you look it up it says it's affiliated with the southern baptist convention ed young is the
pastor and he ended up writing a book and then having this like bizarre event at his church
and you know he called it sex experiment which i don't even kind of a gross name but
he had this like event where he went on the top of his church for 24 hours with his wife
to do like this thing called a bed in and it was a live streamed event i don't even know what
i don't even want to know some kind of perverted display on the rooftop to try and talk about
bedroom things which you know the bible sometimes this is what i i find pastors of these these
churches do is they say oh wow well you know and people don't talk a lot about this because they
don't have the courage to no it's just because it's not appropriate yeah why would i want to
bring up something the bible doesn't go into great detail about because you know what a man
when he gets married to a woman they can figure those things out you know they don't need you to
come give them some kind of a experiment it's just weird try and and tell them what to do i mean
that's what the world does try to pervert the bedroom you know marriage is honorable and all
and the bed undefiled but whoremongers and adulterers god will judge is what the bible
says so you know whatever's going on in the marriage room bedroom is is fine the bible
says it's great and and i'm pretty sure men and women have been figuring out there's like seven
billion people on the planet i think that they figured it out i don't think that we have to uh
have ed young tell us what to do here but of course worldly people do yeah they're so obsessed
with this stuff because there's no satisfaction outside of marriage yeah and then when they want
to talk about bedroom even some you know couples these worldly couples will do this you hear it at
work sometimes talking about the bedroom hey i have an idea leave that to the bedroom leave that
stuff behind closed doors i don't need to hear about it yeah the bible says it's a shame to
speak of those things that are done of them in secret so like there's a lot of evil things that
are being done in secret that shouldn't be exposed with the the world's exposing them and then we
have pastors doing this and the bible says to abstain from all appearance of evil you know
there's a person in the bible that does something like this and i'm not saying it's the exact same
but it's similar where absolim takes over the kingdom from david and then in front of all
israel sets this tent where he's having relations with david's wives and basically just shaming
himself and their entire nation the word of god david i mean just like a complete embarrassment
to everyone and what an embarrassment to texas and the dallas worth area his church his wife
himself to do this weird bizarre thing but look this is coming this is the fruit
of the southern baptist convention where they literally have people like ed young they have
other people like uh the david platt we brought up we have matt shandlers in this area he's a big
name we have steven furtick the guy who literally got up and said i am god almighty and i don't know
how people still defend that i saw somebody we made a little clip of one of his songs gyra
you know gyra gyra i don't know it's it's a bizarre song that they made where you know
they're they're basically taking half of god's name instead of jehovah gyra they just shortened
it to gyra because i guess it's slang or something um they make this song we we made a little clip
about this and we get comments on this like every day like i get comments every single day and
people are defending this and they said oh steven furtick was saying that's what god says to us that
i am god almighty but if you listen to that clip it doesn't feel that way or seem that way in any
shape or form that he's saying oh this is what god says he's just making a bunch of i statements
about himself and then just throws in like i am god almighty on top of that i mean how is that
people are going to come up with all kinds of excuses for their favorite pastor for their
favorite preacher you look at the clip it's it's in context it's obvious what he's trying to say
it's regardless even if that's what his intention was it sounds evil it sounds horrifying why even
utter a statement like that when the preceding statements were about yourself so i don't buy
that excuse whatsoever i was shocked to know that steven furtick is part of a southern baptist
convention church an sbc church a lot of these names again they take the the name baptist out
of the church name so you have to google them to even find out that this elevation church elevation
church just sounds like a liberal non-denom or like a pentecostal or something right what do
you think is the motivation behind that removing the word baptist obviously you think about it this
way i'm actually okay with it because i don't want them to defile the baptist name anyway but
what do you think their motivation is behind that i think that they're just getting away from
baptist doctrine and they're they don't want the stigma of someone who actually believes that
salvation is important enough to make a big deal about it and you know i would be fine if the
southern baptist convention just wants to call the southern slavery convention or whatever you
know they want to call it i mean their home and christian standard bible added the word slave
or change the word servant to slave updated it from two times in the king james to 314 times
literally it's like that's bizarre like why you would have slave and i've heard some people say
like well that's kind of what it means but you know it really to me falls apart when you think
about their logic because their logic is always like well we want to constantly update the bible
to be with the modern times what person has any positive connotation with the word slave in 2022
america i mean it's become the most stigmatized word it in this you know race baiting culture
that we live in i mean to say that you want to have a bible that has the word slave and it's a
well done though good and faithful slave you know that's a completely different ring to it than
servant yeah and they're making out the christian life in that bible it makes out the christian life
to be slavery well if you believe in calvinism is it how is it not slavery when it's just got
and it's just like you will get saved you know and you will not get saved and it's like but
it's kind of contradictory how can you be a good slave when you're not even in control when you're
not even in the driver's seat i mean you did nothing everything was you're just a robot just
good robot you know yeah really i mean you don't get you don't like say like good computer you
pretty much only get mad at a computer when it screws up because you just expect it to work all
the time because it's a computer it's a robot you know you don't inspect flaws or whatever
and and so this calvinistic doctrine coming from the southern baptist convention
where they just believe everybody's a puppet on god's fingers how could you even good puppet oh
such a good puppet he always does exactly what i want him to do i mean this makes no sense can
you imagine someone petting their little puppet it's like they carry it around like this one's
a good puppet this is a bad puppet you know this puppet doesn't i mean do you think this guy is a
psychopath pervert or something exactly you know and that's the way they dress up god you know as
opposed to literally having a free will where people choose of the lord they accept his free
gift of salvation and then out of love in their hearts they actually serve god rather than being
just a slave to this irresistible grace nonsense that they teach and you know i don't want to get
too far off on that because we could just literally kick this can forever you know if you can't leave
the southern baptist convention after you see their doctrinal statement on salvation i don't
think anything's going to change your mind but i know we have a couple more callers i think we have
a john from north carolina he grew up in the southern baptist convention i just like the the
name of that there are the the sound of that name john yes me too in fact i really like that name
sean badness we got john on the line can you say hello yep i'm here hello how's it going how you
doing john doing well before i get into all that i wanted to go back to your uh mac truck analogy
from a few minutes ago yeah let's do it yeah so i was a cop for 12 years and unfortunately i had
to deal with all grades of fatalities and the most horrendous injuries and everything involving
traffic accidents and people getting run over and you know you're standing there and it never
occurred to me to say well this body laying here reminds me of somebody who just got saved you
know yeah i mean have you ever seen someone it's just the worst that looks physically devastated
like that and you thought oh salvation right yeah exactly that's the total opposite though
yeah so um yeah i just want to throw that out there that i thought that was just one of the
weirder things i've heard it's it's eternal life it's like another giving people life you know it's
the it's a new birth it's not getting run over by a truck it's not getting killed they make it into
death yeah and it's not like you know i think we get desensitized by television or whatever it's
so like if you've never seen it up close and personal and experienced that you know yeah i
don't want to use that analogy you know exactly i wouldn't want anybody else to have to see it
either it's yeah not something to be desired just to be again to be fair to the guy even though you
know he is who he is what he's trying to say is well when you get hit by a mactrack you change
you get disfigured or whatever you get injured so therefore the gospel ought to change you as well
it's obviously idiotic it's a horrible analogy but also and i think more important than that
it's theologically flawed in the sense that he's teaching the lordship works as evidence in order
for you to be declared as saved but go ahead so they grew up southern baptist right tell us about
that yeah so um i got saved when i was in the fourth grade i had been attending a southern
baptist church all along i think the way my family initially got into the church was a
neighbor had invited us to attend with them but anyway we went to uh like a a play or dramatization
that was put on by a local um i guess you'd call it a non-denomination church it was called heavens
gate and hell's flames yeah i went to the same thing kind of oh yeah so it's like a traveling
thing i think yeah at the end of it all i really walked away was like i don't want to go to hell
like right went down to the front at the end of the play and i think you know we prayed a prayer
without really understanding too much but um thank god my parents had the wherewithal to say well
you know jotham wants to get saved so let's get the preacher down here to speak with them about it
so the next night the preacher came over and took the bible and you know led me to the lord um and
so like i said that that was fourth grade and about a year probably year and a half later that
pastor left the church like retired um and going all through this time frame to the best of my
memory as a small child we were king james only you know all i ever heard was the king james bible
and then we got a new preacher in and things so i kind of lived through this gradual change of
the southern baptist convention becoming more and more liberal yeah um we got we got the middle
school and they hired a um a new youth pastor and he was affiliated with the ethics and religious
liberty commission have you guys ever heard of that i never heard of that it's a it's a branch
of the southern baptist convention um i had to google it while i was on hold to make sure i
got the name right but it says here the public policy arm of the southern baptist convention
so our new youth pastor was like duly employed by that group and our church at the same time
and with the new pastor that came in after the one that i got saved under all of a sudden it's like
the niv kind of started trickling in um like for instance you know when i graduated high school
they gave everybody a gift and i got an niv bible um that were they using a different version before
that it seemed like it would kind of ebb and flow i guess you know like it was not a hard and fast
role and we went like i vividly remember moving away from the hymnal and into like the more modern
and contemporary music where chris tomlin the choir singing yeah you gotta there's like a tape
deck in the back and they hit play and there's somebody up front you know um singing a solo
michael w smith chris tomlin that kind of stuff or like what is it toby mack and so yeah all the
all the like the 90s christian contemporary music i guess the kind of music where a muslim can listen
to it and not get offended because there's no actual doctrine gods and awesome or anything yeah
my god a muslim a jew could go listen to that no problem because there isn't any doctrine in the
songs so anybody who just believes in a god of some sort could listen to those songs and enjoy
them as a matter of fact you're talking about music i remember one of the um because it was
kind of a big deal when the youth pastor got up to preach a sermon or whatever and uh what was the
song from the 90s it was like hey now you're a rock star you remember that hey now you're a rock star
like like this individual i can't sing it
sorry for my butchering is that what you're talking about but yeah that's the one but the
the youth minister took the lyrics to the song and like morphed it somehow into like a salvation
type message or whatever which i mean being a teenage kid and this is what you've always heard
i mean i thought that was i thought the song was lame but i was like okay cool whatever you know
um yeah i think it's smashed well i think so yeah okay i'm dating myself and um i think the next
pastor that came in just like went full bore niv um i think years later speaking with people who
grew up in the church as well was like yeah the new pastor like threatened you know because there's
like a board of deacons or whatever like threatened the board of deacons that he would quit if they
tried to make him be king james only so they backed off of it because they didn't want to
lose the new pastor yeah so um that was like that was from 19 early 90s through the early 2000s
when i went away to college i just kind of got out of it and was doing whatever until um i stumbled
across pastor anderson on the internet and figured out what an independent fundamental fundamentalist
that this church even is and got plugged into one of those so how so describe the the differences
you know you you said you you finally it sounds like you kind of just quit church is that fair
to say i'm just trying to pretty much yeah but then you found a fundamental baptist church
my wife was like wanting to push me into like you need to get back in church and i was like
which i was saying the entire time like right i had other people like as a like as a backslidden
christian i can't believe you're doing such and such do you think god would let you in the heaven
right now doing well of course he would i'm saved i mean i'm yeah i'll admit that this is not the
right thing to be doing but it's not i'm not unsaved all of a sudden don't you know so i was
always straight and clear on that thank god they got the pastor to get me saved you know the day
after that play or whatever because it was just you know i was saved i just understood it and
went with it you know it was never he's like he's like the drunk guy rebuking ray comfort like
no i'm saved it's one of the most hilarious clips ever it's i'm not saying you were drunk but i'm
just saying like yeah you're not funny this guy's just like living a kind of a you know a worldly
life but he's like but i'm safe yeah these people living worldly life like you mentioned and yet
they're more doctrinally sound than the supposed preacher who makes a living going around and
bullhorning people on the street etc so it's sort of comical when you think about it that way
but the reality is we don't doubt someone's salvation based on their lifestyle right i mean
that's not if you believe salvation by faith if you believe salvation's by faith you don't doubt
somebody's salvation because they're backslidden or anything like that the occasion to doubt
somebody's salvation is if they're in a damnable heresy if all of a sudden they don't believe the
deity of christ if all of a sudden they believe a work salvation or they deny eternal security
vehemently things like that but not how someone's living and it's unfortunate that she had to
go through that so you got into this church you know eventually and and what happened then is do
you notice any differences between the churches sure well for one you know like i had tried to
give the gospel to some people like growing up and but i didn't know how because we were never
taught and so i would always just kind of paraphrase a general outline of what the gospel kind of is
you know without relying on great bible verses um yeah and i can remember two instances in
particular two different guys and i'm like paraphrasing stuff to them and they're like okay
you know and the second one it was a good friend of mine gave him the paraphrase got more serious
into it and learned more came back to him year uh about a year later and used the king james bible
and went through it and he got saved you know so it's like oh okay like this is how it's done and
this is like this is the power of the gospel at work whereas my words over here that i was trying
to you know put it to my language didn't get it done well and it could have sowed a seed but
you want to get the job done right right um other differences uh the music um you're you're not
singing smash mouth at your fundamental baptist church or what no that's not now
that's funny uh there was a soul win really that went on um like at the beginning it was not that
different it's kind of what i wanted to highlight you know early on when i was a small child and this
may be some of it chalked it up to i was a little kid and didn't know any better yeah but from what
i do remember i don't see it a stark contrast versus when i grew up and if i were to go to you
know my parents continued going to the church and so a couple of years ago it was like uh christmas
fell on a sunday so we went and it was a big difference yeah uh as an adult i could tell a
difference well and what you're describing you're you're basically saying the fundamental baptist
church today is not much different than the church you were as in as a child but now that
you've grown up you noticed that the southern baptist church has changed a lot whereas the
fundamental baptist church kind of seems like church used to be and how they've kind of departed
from where they used to stand yeah it would be interesting if you could go back and compare in
the early 90s the ifb to what it is now and say well has it become watered down it has it shifted
to what the southern baptist used to be you know so you know 10 15 20 years should we would be
worried you know is the the ifb going to turn into what we're seeing now with the southern baptist
so we better you know wake up and take heed and and keep that from happening you know amen
well and of course you know sometimes you paint with a broad brush you know it would probably be
a little bit individualistic on on the church some churches could have gotten better worse
it's probably hard to say for sure just across the board but one thing that because i think a
lot of independent baptist churches are still king james only but i know some of them have stopped
being king james only so that would be an obvious change and i think a lot of them used to be more
soul winning like more going out evangelizing and a lot of them have kind of either scaled back
or reduced the level of soul winning i think some of them even incorporating some of the more
contemporary music so i think those would be some of the changes that we see and i think that's an
interesting parallel it's almost like the a lot of these independent baptist churches are kind of
like the republicans where they're they're not necessarily staying the same they're just staying
a couple steps behind the liberals whereas the sbc's like the democrat just going off the deep
end and the independent baptist kind of republicans just kind of staying a few steps behind but both
changing and going in the wrong direction and hopefully we can kind of turn the tide and wake
some people up and try to stay true to biblical doctrines obviously i'm not against updating
things or creating new songs per se but i'm not going to take smashmouth and turn it into a hymn
it does remind me of psalm 58 but you know i think it's a little bit different too
yeah that's not be what they're referring to with their band name or whatever but that is funny
well thanks for your testimony there yeah thanks so much for calling in robert
robert who is it john isn't i'm sorry i got confused how can i forget john i don't know john
the baptist okay terrible well thanks so much for calling in brother john and we really appreciate
your testimony i hope you have a good evening i hope you keep soul winning and get that other
friend i say you got one of your friends say let's get the other one saved yep all right we'll be
praying for them well god bless we'll pray for your friend and uh you have a good night well you
brought up in this call about them kind of you know the sbc and and you know what being watered
down there's a clip i wanted to play i was gonna play this earlier and if you we can the production
team could find it ed lytton agrees with sodomite host lecturing christians for being hateful this
was an msnbc interview that ed lytton did and uh if we can get that give me a thumbs up what it's
cute i want to set this up so ed lytton does an interview with msnbc the msnbc host essentially
attacks christians for being supposedly hateful he's on the air burying christians talking about
how they're hateful talking about how they're so mean and everything and ed lytton here's how he
responded to that here's the clip way too many christians who express zero gentleness and zero
respect when talking to people who don't share their views whether it's atheists agnostics gay
people like myself or just people who don't share their politics and that is not biblical that is
not scriptural that is not what the bible teaches believers to do before i have to let you go what
What do you plan to do as the president of the Southern Baptist Convention to make people of faith more palatable, less contemptible, and maybe a little more Christ-like in the way they deal with the rest of the world?
Well, let me say this. First of all, you're right. And tragically, as part of the whole culture seems to be struggling with giving honor and respect. I respect you because God created you. I respect you because Jesus paid a high price to redeem you.
I respect you because the word of God teaches me to respect you and to honor you. And the fact is we're not seeing, we're seeing a breakdown in our culture, which even impacts our churches sometimes.
But I will say this. This people called Southern Baptist are a good people. When I won last week, people who voted against me came up very kindly and said, I didn't vote for you, but I love you in Christ and I will pray for you.
I think, again, the French is loud right now in our culture on every level. And what it means is we have to practice exactly what you're holding us accountable to. And that is what the word of God says.
Pastor Ed Linton is the new president of the Southern Baptist Convention.
I'm gonna puke.
That was disgusting. And that was gross. How does this think about the logic here for a second? This guy is literally saying he's a filthy, disgusting, abominable reprobate. He's saying like I'm a disgusting
sodomite. I do the most abominable act that the Bible describes people doing. And then I want to lecture this Southern Baptist president on how Christians are not Christ-like. Like you're the epitome of not being Christ-like. You're the epitome of what's unholy and unrighteous and wicked as hell. And then you have the gall to try and lecture people on not being Christ-like or being a Christian.
He doesn't know anything about being a Christian or what the Bible teaches.
Otherwise, he wouldn't have the disgusting, filthy affections that he has.
Romans 1 makes it abundantly clear this guy hates God.
This guy has rejected God.
He's been given over to a reprobate mind.
Why would Ed Litton then sit here and allow this guy to pontificate about how much more Christian in Christ-like he is,
this MSNBC host, then Christians that, you know, are not tolerant and they're, and they're
hateful and they don't like certain things. It's like, he's not going to like God because
God's pretty hateful towards people that are wicked. The Bible says that he abhors the
bloody and deceitful man. I mean, the Bible says that he's angry with the wicked every
day. That doesn't sound like tolerance. That doesn't sound like acceptance. That sounds
like anger. That sounds like wrath. I mean, when God burned Sodom and Gomorrah, how accepting
and tolerant was God of their Sodomite lifestyle, Ben?
How about zero? Negative? You know, this is the most evil, grotesque, abominable reprobate
on television, getting up thinking he has the moral high ground in the interview, lecturing
Christians, talking down to Christians in the most condescending, patronizing manner
possible, and Ed Litton has a chance to respond by standing for the people of God and the
Word of God and what are the two words he chooses to use? I agree with you. Talking
to a filthy, abominable Sodomite, I agree with you.
Think about Ed Litton. Oh, I agree with you. People need to be more palatable. Like, Christians
being hateful, not palatable. Disgusting pedophile reprobates, that's palatable. Think about
how much he switched the narrative. I mean, you've got somebody that literally has the
most disgusting affections, is completely reprobate. I mean, these type of people are
the ones that are putting on dresses and lipstick and calling themselves a woman when they're
clearly a man. I mean, talk about a Mack truck conversion here. And yet, we want to
make their their way more palatable than these, you know, God fearing Christians who take
their family to church and love their children and raise them, then to sodomites who adopt
children and abuse them and pass them around a sex ring. Yeah, I'm describing Dave Rubin
and his disgusting, filthy criminal comrade that he calls a husband. But there's no such
thing because marriage between a man and a woman, not between a beast and another beast.
Well, you said and but he's he's conservative though. Oh, he's a conservative dog. So he's
okay then. Okay. Well, you know, conservative means nothing anymore, apparently. Because
if you think that two dudes can adopt children, you you could never be considered conservative.
You are a complete moron. You're a complete freak. And and of course, why would you even
do an interview with this type of disgusting, filthy abomination? I mean, oh, you're so
hateful. Pastor Shelley. Look, you know, it's hateful is adopting children and then
abusing them. That's hateful. And that's what these people are doing. You know, it's not
hateful is hating the pedophile and not tolerating the pedophile and not tolerating disgusting
and filthy, wicked abominations that the Bible condemns with the death penalty in Leviticus
2013. I didn't make that up. That's what the Bible says. Is that make God not accepting?
I mean, at what point are we going to just basically say that God has the problem here
if we're going to say that those laws aren't accepting and intolerant and you know, we
need to make it more palatable. Let's get a palatable Bible, you know, that takes out
everything that's negative. No, no, no hard verses. Oh, because of the poor little son
of mine. Oh, it feels so bad. We need to make the Bible less mean for them. That's
pretty convincing, Ben. I feel like you feel pretty sad. Yeah, I think you could tell.
You know, the Bible says, "If a man also lie with mankind as he lieth with a woman, both
of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood
shall be upon them." In Romans 1, this is reiterated, "Who knowing the judgment of
God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death." It should come as no surprise
though that Ed Lyddon would respond to the accusations made by an open sodomite about
Christianity and Christians and believers in general the way he did because this is
the same man who got up and said that he's actually changed his view on Romans chapter
1 and characterized the abomination of sodomy as something that God whispers in comparison
to other sins in an attempt to downplay the sin and downplay, you know, what it means
to be a homo, to be a sodomite, and how evil and how severe it is in the eyes of God.
So it should come as no surprise that that's how he conducted himself in the interview,
a compromising, spineless coward, the president currently of the SBC.
But it's not like J.D. Greer was much better talking about how Christians should be the
friends of the "LGBT community," which is something you had a response to in a documentary
called The Sodomite Deception, which I would highly recommend for those of you who want
to get red-pilled on this issue.
Or red-evicted.
Or evicted because of this issue, SodomiteDeception.com, because this could be jarring to a first-time
listener.
Yeah, of course.
And so just go hear us out.
Don't just dismiss what we're saying right now as hateful and bigoted and all the rest
of it.
Don't come at us.
Yeah, why do you have to say that?
Why can't you just be sweet?
Why can't you be sweet to a child rapist?
Exactly.
Why can't you just love the pedophile?
No, because we have a brain in our head and because we love the Lord and we love children.
Don't come at us with your leftist buzzwords.
Just simply go to sodomitedeception.com and you'll see why we are reacting the way that
we are to this compromiser.
Ed Litton, Pastor Shelley, where do you want to steer us next?
Well, and here's the thing.
We still have a lot of color.
I don't think we're going to get to all of our colors, but I do want to go to another
one.
I think we have Brother Richard on the line and he can share some of the experiences with
the SBC.
But, you know, the SBC is definitely becoming very accepting of the LGBT, whereas in the
past they weren't.
Like you said with the JD Greer, say we should be friends with them inviting him into our
home.
And, you know, I just want to see how anybody can have been raised in these churches, heard
the sermons of the past and now see the complete flip-flop and not say something happened but
the Bible didn't change.
So you know, I don't know what changed.
I think we got Richard on the line.
Can you hear us, Richard?
Yes, I can.
Thanks for calling in.
How's it going?
Oh, it's going great.
Hello, Richard.
Hey, brother Ben.
Now, have you been to a Southern Baptist Church?
Do you have some experience with this?
Share with us.
I have, I was raised Missionary Baptist with the similar situation of growing up in a church
that was a lot like an IFB church and becoming watered down through the years.
And I got even more watered down in college and went to a couple of different IFB churches.
But the latest one, the one that really made me want to call the last one I was at, I was
there for, my wife and I were there for maybe three years and two or three before I started
listening to Pastor Anderson and ran.
But we had an anniversary service.
And they had several past members come and they would talk and give their testimonies
and everything else.
And they got to a point and they said, "Well, we have one of our, probably our most famous
member.
He can't join us today, but he wanted to leave, give us a video message."
So they put it up on the huge screen and it was Bill Clinton.
Oh, great.
Bill Clinton?
Yes.
The rapist.
But hey, the HCSB condones that.
So that's okay.
You have to marry the girl if you force her carnally.
The Democrat Baptist, go on.
Yes.
So, I mean, it was, you know, his speech was about as watered down as you would expect.
He hasn't darkened the door of any church in a couple of decades probably, but I had
not realized that he was technically a member of that church when we went there.
And oddly enough, nearly everyone in the congregation applauded when he was done.
Oh, man.
Well, I mean, of course, that doesn't surprise me.
It had its good points, but yeah, it was very watered down.
He didn't finish his speech like, "I did not have sexual relations with that woman."
And Hillary Clinton didn't have textual relations with those private email servers.
Come on, that's fine.
Come on.
Give me a pity laugh at least.
Thank you.
Is that a good enough pity laugh?
That was good enough for me.
Okay.
We just need a laugh track.
So this was a Southern Baptist church.
Bill Clinton's an active member or like was a member?
He's technically still on the, at that time, was technically still on the rolls.
Oh wow.
Because you know, they don't ever...
Well, you don't want to take that name off all this, do you?
Of course.
After you commit adultery in the Oval Office, do you still get church disciplined or are
you still on the rolls?
Oh man.
I mean, how does that work?
He said he didn't do it.
It didn't count.
That's true.
And that is the problem with many churches like that.
Their church discipline just consists of taking someone off the rules.
They're not banished from going.
Yeah.
He probably didn't show up.
I mean, assuming, you know.
No, he's never been back, I'm sure.
That's funny.
So now in this church, what Bible version do they use?
They use the New King James.
Okay.
I had never gotten into any of the other false versions.
I was misled early on on the New King James, so I kind of used it for a little while and
was okay with it.
I always still prefer the King James.
Yeah.
Well, you know, again, people get led astray by the name New King James.
It's really the New King.
It's the King James in name only, because then again, he claims to use the traditional
text of the New Testament, the text of the Receptives.
It claims to be translated from the Masoretic text, but in reality, it puts footnotes in
there that casts doubt on scores of scriptures, and it deviates from the underlying texts
when it changes the Word of God and agrees with the Holman Christian Standard Bible
in multiple places, including making words like "boat" and "prince" more difficult,
then changes Matthew 7, 14, 1 Corinthians 1, 18, those salvation verses about salvation,
I should say, and turns them into works salvation, including Romans chapter 11, but a lot of
people get led astray by the new King James just because of the name of it, thinking,
"Oh, all it does is modernize the archaic language," when in reality it actually changes
essential doctrines of the faith and casts doubt on many others as well through the footnotes
that tell you that they're getting the footnote from Nestle Island Text and these other corrupt
manuscripts.
That's right.
I actually heard your sermon this past Sunday about that.
The new King James.
Nice.
Was it a good sermon?
Should people check it out?
It was pretty good.
All right.
You got a listener there, Ben.
I figure you know on the views, there's like four views.
We know brother Richard here is at least one of those, so it's not just your mom.
Well, that was me getting bumped off of it and starting back.
Hey, listen.
Hey, do me a favor.
Go in there, hit F5 20 more times or something.
All right?
So it looks a little less.
Yeah.
Leave a comment or something.
Get the algorithm going.
This is not Richard.
This is a good sermon.
That was actually what won me over to the King James only position finally was that
once I started investigating, I took my King James and brought along while he was reading
from the new King James.
Yeah.
Right.
And it was, it was night and day.
Well, it's, it's kind of, it was just silly.
Right.
James and name only kind of.
I said that in the sermon, there was, you could hear a pin drop in the church, like
no one laughed.
And I just awkwardly said, all right, moving on.
Well, I don't, yeah, no one really laughed here either.
So no one left here.
I got to work on my comedy.
Sometimes when a joke doesn't land, you don't retell it.
That's true.
You don't retell it.
You just realize like, oh, okay.
Yeah.
It's okay.
I don't know.
There's comedians that have made a career out of that.
So yeah.
All right.
CNN.
It's all the same terrible joke.
Yes.
Me and Brandon from Pure Words thought it was funny.
So let's go Brandon.
All right.
Yeah.
I like that tagline.
It's kind of got a ring to it.
You know, maybe it'll go viral.
Let's go Brandon.
Maybe you can get President Biden to say it.
So back to the Southern Baptist Convention.
I don't know how we got off on that, my bad.
What else, do you think your pastor was even saved at this church that you're going to?
Oh, I'm not going there anymore.
I think he might have been.
When he would preach on salvation type messages, what he said was generally very good.
He took his heart of a stand as I've seen anybody recently from the Southern Baptist
Convention on against Calvinism.
So there was definitely some good things.
I kind of got the impression that the church was so large that he was under pressure to
not run anyone off and to keep things a little watered down.
We did have some that definitely weren't saved.
One of the assistant pastors, a couple of years after we left, got caught fornicating
with someone in the church or committing adultery with someone in the church who was married,
which you know, that's...
You got that Bill Clinton spirit apparently.
Yeah, that's right.
You know, you let one person in and say it's okay, everybody else thinks it's okay.
When you got the president of the country and a member of your church, that's a pretty
bad example.
But Bill Clinton's a rapist.
Well, that too, there's probably other issues that he's got.
And a murderer.
That has nothing to do with the Southern Baptist Convention, but thanks Ben.
How many conspiracy theory claims can you make in this just to scare every normal person
away?
That would be great.
I honestly, being from Arkansas, like there's not any conspiracy theories.
Okay.
Mostly facts.
All right.
That's probably true.
I think there was like three women that did a live interview talking about how Bill Clinton
had basically taken advantage of them.
Is that not true?
No, it is.
Yes.
Yeah.
They'd have to all be liars for just no reason, basically.
I guess fame.
Juanita Broderick, Aileen Wellstone, and others have come out.
That doesn't mean that it's true, but obviously, you know, he doesn't have a very good track
record, let's be honest.
So that's right.
So do you assume Bill Clinton saved or what?
No.
There's a conspiracy theory.
Wouldn't that be something if it's like Hillary's obviously going to hell, but like Bill was
somehow saved?
He's like, he's like the lock Christian or something like that.
He's like a have and Jezebel was his wife or something like that.
I don't know.
That would be the only explanation that that's a stretch.
I'm just joking.
I don't know if I have a response to that.
So his wife is Jezebel though.
Yeah, we're going off the rails here.
I'm blaming.
I blame Richard.
Did you?
I guess then you didn't have really any Calvinism.
Did he like lose members when he took a strong stand on Calvinism?
I didn't know.
It was, it's such a huge church.
I couldn't really tell.
Okay.
What's a huge church?
It's a Sunday night service.
So, you know.
Oh, okay.
What's a huge church?
I'm sorry.
What's a huge church mean?
Oh, there was over a thousand people, usually.
Yeah.
Okay.
I don't remember the exact numbers, but it was very large.
Well, that's one of the largest in the state.
What I've noticed is a lot of these Southern Baptist churches, which not all of them, but
a lot of them are giant.
I mean, they do have a ton of people in their churches.
And I don't want to say this and people get the wrong understanding, but it's possible
that a great church could have a lot of people.
But when you just consistently are the largest churches everywhere and just having tons of
people, you got to kind of question, like, are they really preaching what the Bible says?
You know, are they really preaching on the unpopular parts of the Bible here?
Or are they just kind of pandering to the crowd?
And I feel like there's probably a lot of good guys that kind of eventually wake up
and they realize like, I'm in this huge church with a big salary.
And if I start preaching the Bible, I'm going to lose all that.
And it's kind of this temptation to compromise.
That's something that you feel like maybe is prevalent or that you saw?
I suspected that of just my limited dealings one-on-one talking to the pastor and his
sermon.
That was my suspicion.
Obviously, I couldn't confirm it, but he did leave and actually go into work for the
convention rather than taking another job as a pastor.
I see.
Well, we got disgusted by it.
Well, now you're going to IFB churches and you're King James only.
I have a great church now.
Yes.
Well, praise the Lord that you're able to serve the Lord where you're at and kind of
realize the fruit of some of these SPC churches that they're just really just kind of dying.
They're not really holding the candlestick anymore.
They're not really preaching the gospel.
They're not really preaching a lot of good doctrine.
They're just kind of, as I've heard other preachers say, fun centers.
They have a lot of events and concerts and maybe a lot of people, but it's more important
to have the gospel of Jesus Christ and have the word of God than to have a party.
I don't even want to have fellowship with a bunch of people that aren't saved or don't
believe the same things or have different values as me and my family.
It's important to have unity and fellowship with the word of God as the primary glue that's
bringing people together.
How about this, and I don't think I've asked some of our callers, but what would you say
just on your own personal emotional level, do you feel like you're happier even going
to these IFB churches versus the SBC churches?
Absolutely.
Some of my best friends that I have, I've met in the last few years since I've started
going here.
Well, how could you be happier when you're around this hateful culture?
Exactly.
They're not so palatable.
We have to go soul winning once a week and all this extra work.
Yeah.
It's such a deception.
Everybody's so mean and racist.
Yeah.
Well, thanks so much for calling in.
It's great to hear from you and hopefully you can find some other sermons out there
other than Brother Ben that really cheer you up.
Yeah.
Thanks.
That's right.
I'll just have to come back down to SudFast again.
There you go.
All right.
That'll be it.
You need to do it.
We'd love to see you.
Well, God bless you.
You have a good night.
You too.
Ben, I'm not trying to give you too hard of a time.
I'm just trying to give you a reality check.
That's all right.
I'll take it.
That's good.
I need to listen to your sermon anyways, so just learn why I should hate the New King
James even more apparently.
I heard your morning sermon was a little spicy too.
Apparently.
I had a few things I needed to get off my chest.
Well, you know, obviously when you talk about these topics, we can get a little bit angry,
but you know, there is a righteous anger out there and even, even this topic, you know,
you brought up the sermon that I had preached to anybody who goes and looks for it.
It's not titled Southern Baptist Convention.
It's actually titled Southern Bastard Convention.
And justify why, why would you title it that?
Well, you know, it's a pretty extreme title and people get offended by that, just even
the title alone.
But you know, the word bastard is found in the King James Bible and it's even in the
New Testament.
And it's specifically about people that are not actually saved.
It's about an illegitimate birth, as it were.
And you know, I see that as being a lot of these fake Christians, people that have been
going to church, but they're not saved.
And especially ones that are not going to even get saved.
And they're really just a bastard, not a true son, as the Bible describes in Hebrews
chapter number 12.
And so it's important that we realize that there is churches, there is pastors, there
is Bible versions, even that I would call a bastard, because they're just illegitimate.
You know, the homo Christus standard Bible does not seem to have a legitimate birth.
It takes and corrupts a lot of those clear verses on salvation, which if you don't have
a incorruptible seed, you'd have a corruptible seed.
And a corruptible seed is not going to bring forth sons, it's going to bring forth bastards.
And so, you know, I clearly articulated that the Southern Baptist Convention being birthed
out of slavery, that makes them kind of a bastard child in the sense that it's kind
of an illegitimate birth.
Why would you want to form a convention on the importance of slavery?
Secondly, you have a Home of Christian Standard Bible, which has a lot of perverted verses,
that's not going to make a lot of saved people, that's going to make a lot of bastards.
You have a doctrinal statement that literally teaches you have to repent, meaning genuinely
turn away from sins in order to be saved.
That's not the gospel, that's going to create a lot of bastards.
And they have a lot of preachers like J.D. Greer, David Platt, some of these men ministers
who are preaching a false gospel and they're not going to get people saved.
They're bringing in bastards.
And then you got Calvinism and other doctrines that have crept in the church, creating more
bastards.
And so I think I had five points, it's kind of a quick rendition of my sermon.
But was there, there's another point that I brought up that you remember?
I think you said you recently listened to the ceremony.
Yeah, I mean, no, you pretty much summed it up.
You talked about the Holman Christian standard, you talked about the origins of the SPC, you
talked about their false doctors on salvation, you covered the whole deal as much as you
possibly could.
But you did mention that a lot of the subject matter in that message could be drawn out
into a completely different sermon because there was so much content, because there was
so much to cover.
And is that what you ended up doing?
Or do you remember it?
I really haven't, I think I've mentioned the Southern Baptists a few times in other sermons,
but I haven't really drawn that out.
I do think the title sounds harsh, but I think it's appropriate given the topic of salvation,
which is really at the core of our disagreements with them.
And you know, you agree that the title is harsh, right?
But like, is it justified after actually listening to the sermon?
Yeah, and especially because you don't come at it immediately with some of the harsher
stuff.
You build up to the reason why you titled your sermon the way that you did.
And I think by the end of it, anybody who goes in skeptical as to why you would, first
of all, use that word to describe them will realize where you're coming from when it comes
to the severity of the issues that the SPC has when it comes to salvation, when it comes
to Bible version.
I mean, what more important issues are there than the Gospel and the Bible?
Right.
And they're wrong on both.
That doesn't mean that there aren't SPC churches that are better than others or that individuals
who go there, that there might be some saved people who go to those churches.
I'm sure there are, so don't take that as me whitewashing everybody with the same brush.
But again, those are the two most important issues.
When they're wrong on both, then why wouldn't you refer to them as fakes, frauds?
Why wouldn't you refer to them the way you did in that sermon as the Southern Bastard
Convention?
Exactly.
Well, and you know, I think that we could talk about this for a lot longer if we really
wanted to because there's so many other issues.
But I wanted to highlight some of the more important points and I think we definitely
covered them.
You know, salvation, Bible version issues, some of the Calvinism, some of the more real
liberal theology that's kind of creeping in.
I mean, if you're not going to leave the church and find a better church based on those,
I don't think there would be a deal breaker, but you know, salvation is a deal breaker.
The Bible version is a deal breaker and you need to find a church that's going to stand
on the gospel and not change with the times.
And I'm really, my heart goes out to these people because they are Baptist in name.
You know, I like that we have that camaraderie of the word Baptist, but I want them to be
a real Baptist, not just a name only.
And I want you to also get the Baptist bias.
You know, we have this show for a reason.
We want you to get the right perspective on the Word of God and allow the Word of God
to dictate your feelings and emotions, not, you know, what CNN is telling you, not what
your parents are telling you, not just how you feel inside.
But what does the Bible actually say?
And we had a couple other call ins, I don't think we're going to get to them this evening.
We've got a lot of content already, but you know what, you can call in next week.
We're going to have a special guest.
We're having Pastor Roger Jimenez from Verity Baptist Church.
He's going to be on the show, we're going to be talking about censorship that's going
on in this world.
And so we'd love for you to call in next week, email us, chat, send in messages, be
in the chat, talk to us.
I think it's going to be a great episode. Pastor Minnis is a great guest and he's got
a lot of experience in being censored. Probably one of the most censored preachers in America.
But he's got a great and powerful message. And so we're really honored that he would
take time out of his schedule to be on our podcast. So please do check it out. But also
share this one. You got a loved one, a family member in the Southern Baptist Convention,
you might make them a little upset by sharing them this podcast, but you know what, if you
get them saved, it's probably all worth it in the all you got something at the end. Ben,
you got anything you want to share with us before we kick before in this? I think we
provided for people some very good reasons to question at the very least, and at best
leave the SBC. We talked about the fake Bible, we talked about the salvation issues, we talked
about some of their false prophets, we talked about Ed Litton's compromising and Ed Litton's
doctrines and you know that interview that he did which was really just grotesque honestly
apologizing for Christians and how they view sodomites and things like that and so if you
want some more information about this topic I would highly recommend Pastor Shelley Sermon,
the Southern Bastard Convention. You can still find it on YouTube courtesy of Pure Words
Baptist Church. That's Pure Words Baptist Church and I want to thank the callers as
well for participating and giving us their testimony and the chat room as well. We had
P. Wendy 1611 in there, J.S. Whoever Early, Kyler Horfrost, we've got Aziz Bello, I saw
Peter James, Pillar and Ground in there, O.S.A.S., Alex Fennon and others, Saved by Grace, a
bunch of people in the chat participating.
Pastor Thompson in the chat.
I saw Pastor Aaron Thompson post a message.
Sure Foundation Baptist Church in Washington.
Maria YouTube.
Vancouver, Washington.
Thank you to Maria YouTube 100, I apologize, I talked over your plug.
You're good.
Sure Foundation Baptist Church and where's that at?
Vancouver, Washington, check them out.
He's actually got churches everywhere, UK, Canada, you got to check out Pastor Thompson.
He makes you feel like he's a Texan just because the Bible says, not the Bible, they say everything's
bigger in Texas and Pastor Thompson will make you feel small if you see him in person.
Sure.
He's got a big heart, literally and metaphorically, okay, I love the guy and you got to check
out even Pastor Menez, like I said, Verity Baptist Church.
Pastor Menez next week, what a show that's going to be.
You know, Pastor Menez and Pastor Thompson couldn't be different, more different physically,
but you know what, they got that same spirit.
Spiritually.
Yes.
They're both spiritual giants.
And you know what?
Here's what I have to say about next Tuesday, be there or be lame.
Yeah.
Now I'm going to be lame because I'm not going to make it, so I realize how much of a hypocrite
I sound like right now, but I'll be tuning in anyway.
And so I hope that you guys tune in next Tuesday, eight o'clock central for the season finale.
Yeah, it's going to be our last show for the season.
We're going to take a break.
We're going to try to improve a few things and we're going to come back strong with a
second season of The Baptist Bias.
If you have ideas, you could always email them too.
If there's a particular show or topic you'd like us to cover, we'll definitely consider
it.
And I'm looking forward to even the next season, we've done a lot of good stuff so
far.
I've appreciated our fan base for liking and sharing our sermons or not sermons, but
our podcasts. And I hope that you'll continue to share like these, we're going to make some
clips, share the clips and tell people subscribe if you haven't subscribed. And you can even
check us out on Podbean. I always like to say that one. Yes, you do. Apple podcast.
What else we got? Spotify and the Stitcher radio app. Just use the keyword Baptist bias,
the keywords Baptist bias to find us there and you'll get the high quality audio only
edition of the podcast. All right, well, that's going to do it for us this evening. God bless
you guys for checking in. Ben, why don't you sign us out? Folks for Pastor Shelley, this
has been the Baptist signing us off for this week's episode of the program. God bless you
all and we will talk to you guys again very soon.