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For joining us for a live stream where we recap the last debate that we had
I'm actually joined in studio with Ben the Baptist. We didn't replace you this time. How's it going Ben?
It's going great. Thanks for having me on the recap show tonight. I'm excited to talk about that epic encounter last Thursday.
And we might even get a surprise drop in guest.
Let's not reveal who it is. Total surprise.
I'm excited to get some other opinions in here too. What did you think about the show?
Well there were definitely some fireworks. I had my eyes glued to it the entire time.
And I mean we'll get into it here. I think we have our surprise ready to go Pastor Shelley whenever you want to transition to him.
But I will say that this live stream if I could encapsulate it in one thought it's this right here.
The debate this past Thursday night shows you the manifestation of the wickedness of Christ hating Judaism and Christ hating Jews.
You got to see for yourself just how much they hate the Lord Jesus Christ and just how much blasphemy is bubbling up in their heart that they couldn't help but spew out throughout the entire stream.
Well we definitely have another person that I want to get their perspective on. He wasn't in the debate but he did watch some of it.
Pastor Anderson how's it going?
It's going great. How you doing?
Doing great. Thanks for joining us and I know you got to check out some of the stream from the other night. What did you think about it?
Well you know those Jews are just super annoying to listen to. I mean one thing is that they just seem it seemed like got a lot more airtime.
Or I don't know if just time flies when you're having fun so when we were listening to the Christians talk like it just goes by faster.
But it just seemed like I was just spending so much time listening to just that Byron guy drone on and on.
And the guy claims to be a Christian but he doesn't believe in the divinity of Christ.
So he flat out said that Jesus isn't God and then he literally believes that Jews are saved and going to heaven without believing in Jesus.
So I think just about anybody who is you know Orthodox in their doctrine who's an Evangelical Christian or Baptist would know that this guy is clearly not saved.
And that he's a crypto Jew. He's a Jew who's pretending to be a Christian and you know the stuff that he was teaching was absolute nonsense.
It was hard for me to have any sympathy towards Byron's position and opposed to the Jewish position.
And maybe that's wrong but it's almost like I kind of understand how the Jew doesn't you know accept the New Testament.
But it's weird how a Christian supposedly someone that claims to believe in Jesus is also rejecting the New Testament.
I mean that just seems like an extra level of just like I don't know idiocracy or something.
But what was your perspective on a Christian just kind of not regarding the New Testament Ben?
Here's what I think. I think that maybe one good thing about this is that it'll cause the Judaizers that are not as extreme as Byron.
Because Byron is just so extreme in his view. He's like John Hagee levels of Judaizing.
You know hopefully this kind of caricature of being a Judaizer will kind of wake up some people who were watching who have those tendencies.
And help them realize like I don't want to go down this road. This doesn't make any sense.
Because independent fundamental Baptists in general they kind of lean the way that that Byron guy does in a lot of ways.
Constantly making excuses for Jews. Acting like they have some special knowledge about the Old Testament or something.
And it always blows my mind when people somehow think that modern Jews have insight about scriptures that were written 3500 years ago or 3000 years ago.
That they somehow have some special insight because they're a Jew now or because they speak modern Hebrew now.
And so that you know that he's calling them the Jewish fathers of faith.
And at one point you or Pastor Jimenez said like you know so I should be thankful to Adam King.
That was Pastor Jimenez. Yeah you should. But you know what that's like saying I should be thankful to Joe Biden for giving me my freedoms in America.
You know without Joe Biden I wouldn't have any freedom in America. That's basically the equivalent.
You know the people who gave us those freedoms gave them to us a long time ago.
Obviously it's kind of like the reparations argument for slavery. It's like none of these people have ever been slaves but we need to like give them money.
And like I'm a slave owner even though I never had any slaves.
Well and one of the most annoying things with Adam King is how he just peppers in these little like Hebrew phrases and these little Hebrew buzzwords throughout the broadcast.
Just to make it seem like he's just so deep in with the Hebrew language or something.
The type of stuff that he dropped throughout the broadcast and I'm not claiming to be an expert in Hebrew but yeah this is the perfect meme that you have on the screen here.
You know he's just like you know oh you gotta have something called you know maim chaim.
You know but the funny thing is like he acts like maim chaim is some special mystical thing because what's going on is that this word literally means living water.
Okay because maim means water and chaim means living. It's sort of like whenever Jews are toasting with alcohol they say lechaim like to life.
They toast to life. That's what they say instead of like cheers.
So maim chaim is actually just running water. That's how the King James Bible translates this phrase.
It's just running water. It's not some special magical you know special thing of you know like living water like something like that.
It's just literally running water. It's water that's not stagnant right.
Now obviously in the New Testament when Jesus Christ is talking about living water he is talking about something spiritual but he's not talking about a physical beverage.
When Jesus says I'm going to give you to drink of living water. It's not like you can go buy that somewhere.
It's not like it's being bottled by some priest somewhere. You know holy water or something.
You know that's bogus. The living water is a metaphor. Okay.
But this guy just peppers in all these little phrases like you know maim chaim because running water just doesn't sound as exciting.
You got to have running water. Well we all have running water.
But also just anyone with literally like one semester of Hebrew would understand like virtually everything that he said it was all just these really like basic.
It's sort of like if you know if we grew up around Spanish culture we all kind of know what hasta la vista means you know we know what a pinata is a burrito tostada.
Arnold explain that to me Arnold Schwarzenegger.
We can all say like you know oh you know oh yeah cobo va or something you know like like that like he grew up around all this Jewish stuff.
So he basically has all these little Jewish buzz phrases. I'll tell you right now just based on listening to the guy.
The guy is not a fluent modern Hebrew speaker. I thought I heard someone say that he claims that that's his native language or something.
He's clearly an American Jew who's just gotten around a bunch of like Jewish stuff and been around the Jewish culture obviously grew up with the religion and whatever.
But he's not pronouncing words in their proper modern Hebrew pronunciation.
He's just he's pronouncing them like somebody who just like read them out of a book but isn't really actually hearing these things in like Israel or something.
It's more like it's more like the way Jews in New York would would just kind of say these things.
Is this like the Erasmian pronunciation of Greek?
No it's not even no it's not even that because because there are some some like archaic pronunciations that people use for biblical Hebrew.
But they don't really they're not really that different from modern Hebrew and that he was just kind of putting accents on the wrong syllables and just kind of you know.
So just like when Ben speaks basically.
He just kind of had this kind of like Mazel tov kind of pronunciation.
Like not really. He's clearly not a fluent speaker but but even if he were which he clearly is not a fluent speaker of modern Hebrew modern Hebrew is a simplification of biblical Hebrew.
It's a much simpler language and so you know I wanted to weigh in on this thing that kind of came up at the very end because you guys didn't really have a chance to talk about it.
But this thing came up at the very end with 2 Samuel 8 18 where they were claiming that the sons of David were priests.
Yeah I wanted to get your opinion on that for sure. I was going to ask you.
Yeah because of the fact that the Hebrew word that comes up there cohen which everybody knows that word just as a last name that Jews will often have like Leonard Cohen or something right.
So you know a lot of people are probably familiar with that word.
Well yeah in modern Hebrew it just means priest and in biblical Hebrew the vast majority of the time.
It does also mean priest you know out of I think like 775 uses in the Bible I think that's not the right number but it's somewhere in that neighborhood like out of 750 some uses or something.
All but like 6 or 7 of them you know it's translated as priest.
So that's what it means like the vast majority of the time 99% of the time.
But obviously when you're dealing with ancient languages there are some nuances and things that change over time and so the King James Bible translators did not always translate this word as priest because in some situations the translation priest just doesn't make sense.
Our modern English word priest just means priest okay in modern Hebrew this you know cohen is just going to mean priest.
Whereas this older word obviously had a broader semantic range where it could also be used in other situations to mean other things.
And this is the thing that a lot of people don't necessarily understand if they don't speak multiple languages is that you're rarely going to have a perfect one for one correspondence between a particular word and its analog.
And its analog in another language.
And that's why the same Hebrew word is not always going to be translated with the same English word.
The same Greek word is not always going to be translated with the same English word because those words have different shades of meaning in different contexts.
Also over time I mean you know the Hebrew Bible is written over a long period of time words can change in meaning they can broaden or narrow their semantic range.
And so this word cohen yeah typically it means priest so somebody who has a really rudimentary knowledge of Hebrew they're just going well I know that where I know that means priest I you know I know that.
But do you really know for sure that it didn't also have other meanings, because the King James translators aren't the ones who came up with this because you can look at for example, the Septuagint, and it also does not translate cohenim here as priests.
So the King James is doing the same thing that the Septuagint did, and the same thing the Bishop's Bible did, the same thing the Geneva Bible did.
So lots of translations have recognized the broader semantic range of this word that it doesn't always necessarily mean priest in every biblical context.
And you know if you were to translate it as priest it's kind of bizarre in light of the fact that God spent a lot of time in 1 Chronicles explaining what things were like under King David with regard to the priesthood and how he had different priests serving in different months.
And there's the whole thing of the priesthood switching from the house of Abiathar to the house of Zadok and so forth.
So just all of a sudden, oh by the way, David's sons are priests, like what the, like that doesn't even fit in with everything else that scripture is teaching, and you have to look at the whole totality of scripture.
Also of course there's a famous story where King Uzziah, who's a son of David, goes into the temple to offer incense, and if you remember he's struck by God with a leprosy because he said no, no, this needs to be the sons of Levi, this is not for you.
And of course for those of us who actually believe the New Testament, and Byron was claiming to believe the New Testament even though he clearly doesn't, you know the New Testament says it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Judah, of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.
So it's saying that it has to be a new priesthood of the order of Melchizedek that Jesus Christ represents. Jesus Christ is unique in that he is prophet, priest, king, and that he fills all of those roles, whereas David is just king, Aaron is just priest.
Well I think it makes sense that these guys, if you think about this with end times Bible prophecy in mind, that these guys wanted to push this idea that there are kings who were also priests in the Old Testament, because this entire dialogue, what I was thinking is they are setting the stage for the Antichrist, and it'll be the Antichrist who claims to be both a religious figure and a political figure, and when he does reveal himself to be God at the midpoint of day,
and when he does reveal himself to be God at the midpoint of Daniel's 70th week at the abomination of desolation, I wouldn't be surprised that these same people, Jews like Adam King, fake Christians like Byron Stinson, are coming out and saying, hey it's okay that he's not of the Aaronic priesthood here because neither was David and neither was Solomon, they were priests in the Old Testament according to their twisted false doctrine. What do you think about that?
Yeah and also Byron at one point said that this new temple that's going to be built in Jerusalem, oh it's going to be a place where Hindus can pray there, it's going to be a place where Buddhists can pray there, Christians, Jews, Mormons, I mean talk about a one world religion.
One world religion.
The God of the Bible has never said, hey you know if you're worshiping Dagon, that's okay, come on down to the temple, you can worship.
Baal, no problem.
Asheroth, let's go.
No, but that's literally what Byron said in this interview, he said, oh yeah Hindus, Buddhists, Jews for everybody, let's all just love one another and we're all going to accept the Messiah.
That's baloney, okay? The Jews are rejecting Christ now, they're going to be rejecting Christ all the way up until the second coming, it's that simple.
Yeah I tried to make a point at one, when that was being brought up about the idea of Gentiles just waltzing into the Old Testament temple and just doing whatever they want, it's like that's part of the reason why they got so mad at Paul is because they like falsely accused him of having brought like Gentiles into the temple specifically.
So it's just kind of absurd to me that they're going to think that Gentiles are just now Levitical priests, I guess if anybody can be a Levitical priest, you know according to their view, but it's, you know, I wanted to, in hindsight, I wish I had brought up this one verse, there's a verse that I wanted to bring up that I thought of after the debate, but it's in Hebrew 7, verse 14.
The Bible says, for it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Judah, of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.
So if the New Testament commentating on the Old Testament is saying like specifically, hey, there was nothing about priesthood in relation to Judah and that's why the Lord Jesus Christ has to be a priest after the order of Melchizedek, and it's not a continuation of the Old Testament Levitical priesthood,
it's a changing of the priesthood, and there was a changing of the law, but I would just imagine Byron hates the book of Hebrews. I mean, I don't know, it feels like Hebrews just destroys every view that he has.
So another thing I want to bring up along those lines is King Saul. So one of the things they talked about is they said like, oh, there's lots of Messiahs, there's a Messiah in every generation and all these different things.
Now, here's where they're coming from, here's where they're getting this, okay, is that the word Messiah just literally means anointed, and the word Christ just literally means anointed.
These three words are the same, anointed, Messiah, Christ. You can see that even in the King James Bible where they're used interchangeably, where Psalm 2 says they rise up against the Lord and against his anointed, and then the New Testament says they rise up against the Lord and against his Christ.
So obviously the Hebrew word Mashiach, Mashiach means Messiah, but it also just means anointed. So any time, you know, you're talking about somebody being anointed in the Old Testament, that's the typical word that's going to be used.
Well, same thing in Greek. You know, the word Christos, let's say even before the New Testament's written, that word already existed. Christos is going to be used in the Septuagint about all kinds of people.
Why? Because every prophet is anointed, every priest is anointed, every king is anointed, right? We see Elisha being anointed, all these different things.
And so, you know, for example, when David says, I'm not going to touch the Lord's anointed, I'm not going to put forth my hand against the Lord's anointed, if you're reading the Septuagint, it's like, I'm not going to put my hand against the Lord's Christos, his Christ.
Because again, that's just what those words mean in the original language. But it's sort of like how John says, as you have heard that Antichrist singular shall come, even now are there many Antichrists.
There's sort of like a bunch of lowercase a Antichrist, and then there's the big Antichrist who's coming. Well, here's the thing. You do have all of these people that are anointed at various times, but then you have the Messiah, which is referring to one person.
So when you're speaking English, if you're using the word Messiah in English, you're not going to say, oh, you know, I gave my baby a diaper change, and I put some ointment on him, so I've anointed him, so now he's the Messiah.
Like that's obviously just misusing terms at that point. Because technically, yeah, anything that gets anointed is anointed, is mashiah, is Christos.
So that's the stupidity that they were trying to pull, is to not acknowledge that there's like one big Messiah that is coming, according to the Old Testament.
It's sort of like there are lots of prophets with a lowercase p, but then there's that prophet, you know, like they said to John the Baptist, art thou that prophet, right? Or the woman at the well, I know that when Messiah's cometh, he's going to tell us all things.
You know, obviously, we're not just talking about any old mashiah or anointed person, we're talking about the Messiah, we're talking about the Christ.
And there are lots of other words that do the same thing when you take them from one language to another. Like, for example, I was trying to think of a good example of this, I didn't really think of a good example, but like, I was thinking like, the word Madonna, you know, is not really a good example.
But like, you know, if we say Madonna in English, people are pretty much going to think that we're talking about a pop singer from the 80s, right?
And the other they might think that we're talking about the Virgin Mary, if we say Madonna, right, because that that's how that word operates in English. But originally, it just goes back to an archaic, Italian term, just which just means my lady like ma donna.
Okay, don't I'm being lady and I don't speak Italian, but I know the basics. You know, that's an archaic form of just my lady. And so, you know, you can't just say, well, every lady is Madonna or something, you know, because it's like, well, no, it's like the German word, the Fuhrer, if we said in English, the Fuhrer, everybody knows that we're talking about Adolf Hitler.
Okay, if we said in English, Il Duce, everybody knows we're talking about Benito Mussolini. Okay, whereas in Italian, Il Duce is just any, any leader, the leader or Allah, dear, dear Fuhrer is just any leader in German. And yeah, great example Allah, if we say Allah in English, we're only talking about the God of Islam.
Whereas Allah is actually used in the Bible in the Aramaic section about God, about the God about the true God, because in Aramaic, that's just the word for God in Arabic. That's the word for God, even Christians
Is that who your God has been? Is it Allah?
Allah is used, my parents would say that all the time to me when they were teaching me about the Bible when I was a little boy, they would say Allah, yeah, to be meaning God, but the Christian God, not the Islamicist God.
So is that what Islam is mean when they say Jesus is Allah?
I guess so. Go ahead. What was that Pastor Anderson?
But I'm just saying, you know, when we're speaking English, though, you know, then that's me. So it's the same thing with Messiah, if we say Messiah in English, we're only referring to like the big one, you know, we're not, we're not going to say it'd be weird if our English Bible said, Well, I'm not going to touch King Saul, because he's the Messiah.
Doesn't doesn't the Bible itself do that with the word God? Because the Bible says that God is the God of gods. And the Bible uses that in the term of the devil. He's the God of this world, right? So even the word God, which I would say would be pretty similar as far as a ratio.
You know, just like we were talking about, you're bringing up this word about Messiah, you know, the word Kohen is going to be used like 740 plus times as priest, and then just a handful that don't really refer to that.
Well, the word God is got to be the vast majority 90 some percent it where we're talking about who we think of Elohim, Jehovah, when we're thinking about God.
But when it's used a few times to talk about the God of this world, or the God of gods, or maybe even a couple even references in the Old Testament.
Yeah, not only that, but if you start going back to the original languages, you know, they're going to be times when Elohim is translated as angels.
You know, I mean, these words are just sometimes a little more complicated than just an overly simplistic, you know, one semester Bible college student or modern Hebrew speaker or whatever would like to think.
Obviously, there's a lot more complicated stuff going on when we're talking about literature written over the course of 1500 years in an ancient language that was a dead language until 1882.
I mean, this is just a little bit more complicated subject, and this is why we need to trust our English Bible.
We need to trust the King James Bible and not trust some guy who just barely knows a little Hebrew to just undermine, you know, 414 years or whatever of our English Bible that we've had and trusted and known and believed.
But the reason I'm bringing up King Saul, just to get back to that thought, I just want to finish that thought real quick.
The reason I bring up Saul is because Saul is the one who keeps being called the Lord's anointed over and over again, right?
David says, like, I'm not going to put forth my hand against the Lord's anointed, which if you're reading a Hebrew Bible, it's going to be Mashiach.
If you're reading a Greek Septuagint, it's going to be Christos or any Greek translation.
But then what's funny about that is that Saul literally gets in trouble for doing what?
For offering a sacrifice. He's not supposed to do that. That was a big deal.
But according to these people, oh, well, the Messiah, you know, he's both king and priest.
Well, you know, why does that work for David? But why doesn't that work for Solomon?
Because Solomon was, or excuse me, why doesn't that work for Saul?
Because King Saul was every bit the Lord's anointed as David was.
Saul is repeatedly referred to as the Lord's anointed. He's anointed with oil.
He's hand chosen by God to lead the people, yet he was not supposed to be offering a burnt sacrifice.
Okay? The priest is supposed to do that.
The son of David, Uzziah, was not supposed to be going in the temple and offering that incense.
There was supposed to be a priest doing that.
So to just say, oh, David's a priest, his sons are priests, it does not fit the rest of the teachings of Scripture.
It's just false. I mean, and Adam was kind of like really excited about that verse.
Like he was like seeing it for the first time.
And he's just like, wow, now I've seen it with my own eyes.
Yeah, that's what it is. But it's just like good job for knowing a basic vocabulary word.
But at the same time, these words have a broader semantic range sometimes than their English analogs.
It's just that simple.
Yeah, it's not really thinking through the logic to want to just then willy-nilly act like the Aaronic priesthood doesn't matter.
And it's, you know, let's just say even if you were to try to make the argument like it changed at that point in time,
well, after they actually come back to rebuild the temple, they're making a big deal again about having the priesthood be of Levi and not of Judah.
So then why do they care so much when they're rebuilding the temple to kind of restore that Levitical priesthood again
if now all of a sudden it's changed to just David's sons or something like that?
We don't really see the evidence, internal evidence doesn't suggest that.
Of course, Hebrews the commentary doesn't say that. Plus it defies all logic.
And again, then Jesus wouldn't have to be after the order of Melchizedek.
He'd be at the order of David or after the order of Judah or something like that.
But again, we get that tie all the way back to Melchizedek, which is prior to Judah or Levi.
Neither of them even existed at that point in time.
And so what I thought was funny and where we really needed a Pastor Anderson meme was when they told me that the earth is only five thousand seven hundred and eighty four years or whatever the Jewish calendar.
I was like, where's Pastor Anderson to get mad?
Let me jump in on that right now, because I'm real passionate about this and I know kind of run this into the ground.
I did a whole sermon on it where I went into great detail on this issue and kind of looked at both sides of it and just tried to do as much of an exhaustive thing as I could.
But one thing I didn't even bring up in that sermon that is an important point to realize is that, like, for example, in Numbers chapter three, verse thirty nine, it says all that were numbered of the Levites, which Moses and Aaron numbered at the commandment of the Lord throughout their families.
All the males from a month old and upward. So we're not counting females, so we're only talking about 50 percent of the population.
So whatever this number number is, you got to double it, right? Because he says the number the Levites, the males from a month old and upward, 20 and 2000.
OK, so but according to these people, Moses's grandpa is Levi.
So so if Moses's grandpa is Levi, then how in the world do you have Moses at 80 years old numbering the children of Levi and you got twenty two thousand, which again, if you include the women, we're talking forty four thousand.
So how can you have forty four thousand cousins like that?
I mean, I mean, I thought that I thought this is a great point, but then I realized that Pastor Anderson has never been to a quinceanera.
And so that's obviously why he he he doesn't see how that's possible. But no, I'm just but I'm saying, look at all the numbers.
You if if Levi because according to them, yeah, of course, it's a great place if you trace Moses on one side, Levi's his grandfather.
If you trace him on the other side, his great grandfather and he's got forty four thousand Levites, like that's not now, if you let four hundred years go by and acknowledge the fact that the genealogy is obviously skipping generations and not giving us the full story, then it makes sense how you can have these massive numbers.
You know, and then again, Numbers Chapter four, just the kohathites alone, OK, which again, kohath.
Well, they have about a million people leaving the exodus and approximately about a million people that are leaving.
Well, it's much more than that, because because you have you have six hundred thousand men of war.
You have six hundred three thousand men of war. What about the women? What about children? What about the elderly?
I mean, you know, you're looking at several million people, probably like, you know, it's impossible to know for sure.
But, you know, if I had to guess, I would say, you know, two million would be a low number.
It's probably more like, you know, closer to three million, maybe even more two to three million.
Heck, let's just make it six million. Yeah, exactly.
No, but it's two to three. It's it's like two to three million people.
You're not going to go down there with 70 souls. And then two hundred and fifteen years later, you've got all of a sudden, you know, two to three million people.
But but even that, you know, people will say like, no, we can make this math work, except that the Bible will sit there and say, well, kohath has these couple of sons or whatever.
And then it's like, boom, kohathites from 30 to 50, just the kohathites from 30 to 50 only just the males are two thousand seven hundred and fifty.
That's just not going to work. You can't get there in three generations.
You cannot get there in three generations just from 70 to two million or from you know what I mean?
It just doesn't work. And what's what's interesting is that if you look at these different genealogies, there will be a whole bunch of different families.
Not just the Levites, but other tribes where it will just it'll just list only four generations if you count just.
And so obviously that's not going to be just that consistent that it's just exactly four generations.
Oh, but by the way, they just turned into millions of people.
Obviously, the four generations is some kind of a symbolic number. And all we're getting is just key families.
You know, the important thing is just to understand that the Levites consist of these key families.
Kohathites, Mararites, Gershonites. But it's not giving us the full genealogy because I'm sorry, nobody had five hundred kids.
This is not possible. Well, again, isn't it possible to the Bibles, not necessarily counting a generation in the sense of like just that specific begetting,
but perhaps just like that person's life, you know, like generally they're living, you know, it's like their generation.
But it's not saying that there wasn't their children having children or anything throughout that particular time period.
It's just kind of a you mean at the end of the day, at the end of the day, you know, you're looking at two pieces of evidence.
The four generations in the genealogy. Right. And the four hundred and thirty years, you know, something doesn't compute here.
OK. And when you look at all the rest of the evidence, it's super obvious that the four hundred thirty years is a clear, accurate number.
And it actually jives with having forty four thousand Levites and everything, whereas the other way just flat out doesn't work.
You have 70 people going down into Egypt when they leave. It would be a way, way smaller number.
But the four hundred and thirty years fits like a glove. And so, you know, we've got to run that subject.
Yeah. I feel like the word generation, though, has a broad definition, because, like, absolutely.
I'm thinking like the word in Genesis to verse four, it says these are the generations of the heaven and the earth when they were created.
So it just kind of like, you know, what it bring up like a time period or like Genesis five one.
This is the book of the generations of Adam. But then it just gives like a huge family tree.
And so obviously it's not just like only talking about Adam, it's talking about just that whole family and like what's going on with everyone related.
So, again, I don't think the generation has to be limited to what we think of is just like my immediate begetting of children.
And that's like the only reference. How do we interpret the entire Bible?
You know, we use the clear scripture to interpret the unclear, right?
Exodus twelve, forty and forty one is a really clear, precise statement in context about time.
The statement that God makes to Abraham backs that up about the four hundred years of being evil and treated.
The statements made in chapter seven and Galatians three, they all back that up.
And so you have this super clear statement in Exodus twelve, forty and forty one backed up by three other scriptures, backed up by common sense,
backed up by just chapter after chapter saying there's these massive numbers of Israelites breaking down,
massive numbers of people that are very specifically, you know,
just the coethites alone or the Marare rights alone at the Gersonites on massive numbers.
That would be literally impossible in simply three generations of reproduction.
They just can't happen. It doesn't matter. And look, I know how to produce a lot of kids in a generation.
There is what are you at now? Just twelve, you got the twelve tribes.
Yeah. Although I guess you have to have you have to have twelve sons to have the twelve tribes or how does that work?
And then there's seven sons and five daughters. So so he's like he's like Jesse now or something.
But I think it's interesting. He's trying to tie that back to when Abraham was passing through these animal sacrifices.
But in Genesis chapter, I'm sorry, in Exodus, chapter twelve, verse forty and forty one,
it specifically is bringing up the fact that they came out of Egypt.
It says like the same day in verse forty one, that they went out from the land of Egypt.
Well, here's the thing. Abraham's not in Egypt when he's doing that specific animal sacrifice.
So if you're going to tie it back to that date, well, then now you're just basically discrediting that statement in that verse.
Abraham is not the children of Israel either. Isaac's not the children.
Were you debating Kent Hovind or Adam King? Right. Right.
And that was reminiscent of Kent Hovind there. Yeah. All right. That was a good point.
People are probably tired of that subject, though. I did do a whole sermon on it a couple of weeks ago.
I just wanted to bring up one more. If someone wants to, if someone wants to call in, they can actually give us their opinion to two, three, one Baptist.
We will take a few call ins, potentially two, three, one Baptist.
But Ben, you know, from from your perspective on the show, what was kind of like one of the highlights that you were interested in discussing here?
Well, I just want to point out that it was obvious that Adam King was flexing his rudimentary knowledge of Hebrew throughout the entire broadcast to make it appear as if he was a scholar of that language of some sort.
And we already touched on it with Second Samuel 8 18. Appreciate Pastor Anderson clearing the air on that.
But here's another highlight. Brian Stinson, when confronted on Revelation chapter three in verse nine.
I think we used two nine. But yeah, he said, he said, oh, was three nine? Yeah. Yeah.
About the synagogue of Satan. He said that the Jews there, which say they are Jews and are not, are actually Christians.
And it got me wondering, and I'm not sure, Pastor Anderson, if you heard that portion of the debate, but is this guy taking the Sam Gipp interpretation?
Because I believe it was Sam Gipp who claimed, well, this is talking about you guys, you replacement theology believers who think you are the true Jews.
What was your reaction to him? Oh, just here's the thing. To understand that verse, you have to replace the word Jew with Christian.
What'd you think of that? Yeah, it was crazy. I did listen to the whole thing this afternoon.
I did listen to it. And the funny thing was that Adam King jumped in and just just totally, you know, darkening counsel with words without knowledge.
He just kind of jumps in and says like, well, it's actually the Church of Philadelphia.
That's the synagogue of Satan, which is silly because obviously anybody who's actually read this chapter knows that God is actually praising the church at Philadelphia.
Right. And he says, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews and are not, but do lie.
Behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet and to know that I have loved thee.
And he was trying to say that basically it's it's the Church of Philadelphia. That's the same. I mean, it's just you can't even make this stuff up.
I mean, obviously, the church, he was trying to say Gentiles or something, what, whether we're in Revelation two nine with with Smyrna, or whether we're in Revelation three nine with Philadelphia.
These are actually the two churches that are getting the most praise from the Lord here, because there's a lot of criticism toward the other churches.
Yeah, except these are kind of the two churches that that are getting the the the really glowing report, the praise.
And so he's certainly not mad at these churches. He's he's he's just talking about the fact that they're being persecuted.
There are a lot of adversaries, they're going through trials and tribulations, because let's face it, if we read the Book of Acts, the Jews are doing a lot of persecuting of Christians.
First Thessalonians chapter two talks about that. And so, yeah, that was weird.
I mean, this Byron guy is like a caricature of just the most extreme Judaizer imaginable.
And so hopefully that would make some of the people who are kind of like dabbling in this Judaizing stuff kind of see where this leads.
Because I've been saying for a long time, the end game of the Judaizers is to take you all the way to Judaism.
Yeah.
And that's really the goal is to get you to where you just go all the way and you're not even a Christian anymore.
And he has denied Jesus as God.
He's already denying that Jesus Christ is God, you know, and he's he's just another Messiah.
There's one in every generation or whatever, you know.
And by the way, this is what the New Age types, the Oprah Winfrey types will sometimes teach these kind of like, New Age views like the Oh, the Christ spirit and, you know, the Messiah is like this reincarnated Christ spirit, where, you know, Buddha had that Christ spirit and then Jesus and, you know, Gandhi and Martin Luther King Jr.
And, you know, like that's that's that kind of mentality.
And, I mean, it's just crazy to hear him say, Oh, well, we as Jews believe in reincarnation.
Like, I've, look, I've been around a lot of Jews, I've talked to a lot of Jews, I talked to Jews on a regular basis.
I've never had a Jew tell me they believed in reincarnation.
The vast majority of Jews that I've talked to believed that when you die, that's it.
Just like when an animal dies, just like when your dog dies or something, you're just gone.
That's what most Jews that I've spoken to believe. Some of them do believe in an afterlife, obviously, like the Pharisees in Christ's day did believe in an afterlife and resurrection and so forth.
But I've, I've heard of the resurrection being believed.
And I've heard of a lot of Jews that had more the Sadducee belief of just when you die, that's it.
But I've never personally encountered Jews telling me, Hey, I believe in reincarnation. And I've talked to Jews about a lot of stuff.
When it comes to modern day Judaism, and especially people that have some level of practice, versus what the Bible brings up about Pharisees and Sadducees.
To me, it almost seems like there's actually quite a bit of distinction here.
It almost seems like, and again, obviously nothing's going to be a perfect parallel, but it almost seems like to me that Catholics are more closely associated with the Phariseeism than modern day Judaism.
Even though, of course, there is some overlapping parallels, but I'm just kind of curious, what is your opinion on like the Pharisees and the Sadducees in modern day Judaism?
Do you really see this as being kind of the same thing or how does that different?
Well, obviously we could find analogs between the Pharisees and the Sadducees and all kinds of religious groups because there's no new thing under the sun and false religions, false religion.
But the modern day rabbinic Judaism, especially Orthodox Judaism, is descended from the Pharisees. That is really their spiritual forebears.
When you think about the writings of the Talmud, which the Orthodox Jews are the ones that are big on the Talmud.
For example, Gamaliel, who is mentioned in the New Testament as being someone that trained the Apostle Paul.
He speaks in the book of Acts saying, hey, maybe we should just give the Christians a break a little bit and so forth.
Gamaliel is a rabbi in the Talmud. That's one of their buddies.
So they definitely would look to the Pharisees as their spiritual forebears. And I think that is accurate.
Obviously, you know, they've changed and evolved over time. But modern day rabbinical Judaism, Orthodox Judaism is the religion of the Pharisees.
Are they believing in reincarnation or is that just Adam kind of being a little bit strange on that?
Yeah, I think that's, you know, like I said, maybe I just haven't been exposed to that.
But, you know, I don't believe that they are teaching reincarnation.
I thought, you know, I would say that they're teaching that there's going to be, you know, in the New Testament, I mean, they're teaching that there's going to be a resurrection.
Well, it seems like they're definitely looking for a specific Messiah.
And they're definitely thinking like he has to come from Bethlehem and things like that.
But of course, I guess Adam seemed like he was looking for a Messiah, too.
And he brought up some certain things about it.
And again, the perspective of who Jesus was going to be or who the Messiah was going to be was obviously somewhat misunderstood.
Even the disciples are kind of thinking of maybe a political revolution or maybe a restoration of the kingdom kind of style.
And again, that kind of fits the Antichrist motif, right?
Yeah, for the Jews, the Messiah is, you know, restoring the kingdom to Israel.
You know, that's what they are expecting the Messiah to do.
They want him to bring peace on earth, put the Jews in power, you know, all nations are streaming to Jerusalem and so forth.
And obviously, there are parallels between that and the true story, which is the second coming of Christ.
You know, at the second coming of Christ, there is going to be peace on earth.
Christ is the son of David. Christ is going to rule all nations with a rod of iron and so forth.
But they totally ignore the concept of the suffering Messiah who comes and dies for our sins.
I mean, you know, obviously, Isaiah chapter 53, that whole scripture about, you know, the suffering servant and so forth.
You know, they're not thinking of that as the Messiah.
They're thinking of the Messiah as bringing them political salvation because that's what they're kind of obsessed with in the New Testament.
You know, why do they not want to believe in Jesus?
Oh, well, if everybody believes in Jesus, then the Romans are going to come and take away our land from us.
They're obsessed with the land and, you know, we've got to have our nation.
You know, one of the really telling things also that that Adam said is that, you know, when the Messiah comes, then we can take our place as God's partner.
Right. You know, I don't know if you caught that, but he was basically saying that, you know, the Jews are going to be God's partner.
And what's interesting is that I've talked to a lot of Jews also that have said that for them, the Messiah might not even be a specific person,
but that there's just going to be a messianic age and where basically the Jews will be collectively their own Messiah.
So like the Jews collectively are the Messiah. That's what a lot of Jews believe, believe it or not.
I mean, it kind of reminds me of the parable. What's that?
Well, I want to hear your parable, but it really makes a lot of sense because you see today a lot of political figures going to Israel right now
and kissing the wall and bowing down to the wall and kind of paying homage.
It almost kind of makes sense that they're even influencing individuals to kind of have this same mindset.
And so they want this temple to be restored and that all these Gentile kings and rulers are going to be coming and seeking, you know, peace and from that God.
And then they're trying to usher in their, quote, Messiah, which is this antichrist figure that is going to give them peace.
And maybe the end times boogeyman is Islam. That's kind of the that's the one thing stopping us all from having peace or something like that.
And so if they can kind of drive that narrative, because again, it's pretty uncanny to see Greg Abbott, Ron DeSantis, Donald Trump, Joe Biden.
I mean, probably could name even more all going to Israel, all bowing at that wall, them coming back and passing anti-Semitic legislation in our country.
Ron DeSantis.
Yeah. And Kristi Noem from, I believe it's South Dakota.
Even our beloved Rand Paul was there with the hat and hand on the wall praying and everything.
Not Ron Paul.
Not Ron Rand.
Rand literally went there?
Yeah, I've seen a photo of that.
Yes, yep.
In Marching to Zion?
Babylon USA, I believe.
Oh, Babylon USA.
Both great films.
One of those films is there's a whole like montage of like 16 major politicians that kind of comes on the screen and Rand Paul.
And so there's a whole bunch of people.
There we go.
Speak of speak of the devil himself.
I mean, and you know, I'm not saying Rand Paul's a bad guy or anything, but like, you know, he's so misguided to have done this.
This is something that, that they do, though.
It's like, it's just like a rite of passage.
It's just something you got to do.
Fauci told him to go over there and, and repent.
It's the deception.
It's the popular deception of our needs.
You got to put the hat on, you got to, you got to touch the wall.
You got to, you got to, you know, whatever they're doing.
So the parable.
They're putting them back into power.
So yeah, I mean, I think your parable is going to fit here.
Let's hear, what's the parable?
Well, the parable, the parable that I like is the one where, you know, the, the master of the vineyard is sending servants to gather the fruits thereof.
They beat one, they kill another.
And that's obviously talking about God sending various prophets to Israel over the years.
And they're, they're persecuting and killing the prophets throughout the Old Testament.
And then last of all, he sends his son and he says, they will reverence my son.
And then when they see the son coming up far off, they say, this is the heir, let's kill him.
And then the inheritance will be ours.
Then we can seize on the inheritance.
And, and so that's what it always makes me think of when you hear the Jews talking about how, like, basically they are going to collectively be their own Messiah.
They're going to collectively replace Jesus Christ.
And here's the thing who is a liar, but he, that denied that Jesus is the Christ.
He's anti-Christ that denied the father and son.
So Judaism in general is anti-Christ.
Right.
Those who believe in a Messiah other than Jesus are all lowercase anti-Christ.
And so in a sense, they are collectively one big anti-Christ, you know?
And then I do, of course, believe that there's going to be a singular individual, the uppercase anti-Christ, who is still coming someday.
Right.
And that's their Messiah.
And so both are true.
The Jews are collectively their own Messiah.
And then they're also going to ultimately enthrone this wicked man of sin in the end times, the son of perdition, as the anti-Christ.
Well, it seems like-
And Byron's going to love it.
And Byron's going to be like, this is a dream come true.
Buddhists, Hindus, Mormons, everybody's coming to this temple and praying.
And you know, hey, you say it's the first coming, we say it's the second coming.
Who cares?
Right.
It's the Messiah.
It seems like the millennial reign of Christ.
Like, to me, I feel like the millennial reign of Christ and all the verses in the Old Testament and New Testament pointing to that kind of get twisted into the anti-Christ setting his kingdom up.
So it's like everything that they bring about how, you know, the Gentiles are going to seek the Lord and there's going to be peace and he's going to be ruling.
Like, they're all like taking those passages of Ezekiel and Isaiah and all these different Old Testament references and they're like bringing them to the anti-Christ.
And I think Byron said at one point, he kind of just said like, the anti-Christ is the one that's trying to like stop this from happening.
And it kind of was like an eerie feeling for me for a second as I'm thinking like, oh, so now you're going to blame people like us or Christians for being like, we don't agree with this or we think this is wrong.
Like somehow we're the anti-Christ. That's what that means. Because again, they have no problem. This is what I think is funny.
Byron says that we keep spiritualizing everything, but then he literally like spiritualizes and metaphors everything to his own bidding.
Like, oh, y'all are the anti-Christ. Let's just swap Jews with Christians or whatever.
We can't help spiritualizing stuff because we're just, I guess we're just spiritual like that.
Right.
But the natural man, on the other hand, receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God.
You know, we tend to allegorize and spiritualize everything. Well, so does the Bible.
Yeah.
Preparing spiritual.
The law is spiritual. That's what Paul said.
Yeah, but for him, it's all about inspecting every hair of a literal cow.
You know, that's that's why we're going to seek God.
Overly carnal.
And that's the common denominator between unsaved people who are deceived by false religion is they take things overly carnal.
You see it with Catholics and transubstantiation.
You see it with these Judaizers and Jews and taking a magnifying glass and trying to find one speck of white hair to determine whether or not there's a red heifer worthy of being sacrificed to pave the way for the Third Temple.
It is insanity.
And it leads me to a question for both of you.
Pastor Anderson, John Chapter five, obviously, you're very familiar with this scripture where the Lord Jesus Christ said, I am come in my father's name and he received me not.
If another shall come in his own name, him you will receive.
And we've used that, at least I have, to point to how the Jews will accept the coming Antichrist.
But there's also another idea which says that the Antichrist will turn on the Jews when he invades Jerusalem at the midpoint.
Luke 21 makes reference to this and calls it the days of vengeance.
I'm curious in your mind, Pastor Anderson, when we talk about this relationship between the coming Antichrist and the Jews, are we going to see some Jews accept them, but others reject him?
Is it perhaps the Orthodox and Hasidic Jews that reject the Antichrist when he reveals himself to be God because he's turned on them and then maybe more of the liberal Jews accept him?
How do you kind of reconcile both of these ideas?
Well, here's one thing that you have to understand about the devil is that the devil pretends to be your friend, and then he gets you to do something bad, and then he turns around and accuses you for that very bad thing that you just did.
Because think about the devil's two roles in our lives. He's constantly trying to tempt us, and then he's also constantly accusing us before God in heaven, which is a little bit ironic.
He's the one trying to get us to do bad stuff, and then he's turning around and accusing us of doing bad stuff.
A great example is the character in the Bible, Jonadab, who basically gives Amnon the idea to defile Tamar and then turns around and tells David,
oh yeah, he defiled Tamar and this and that. That's how the devil is.
And so what's going to happen, I believe, in the end times, if you study the Scriptures and look at how this is going to play out according to the book of Revelation and what Jesus taught,
is that I do believe that the Jews are going to absolutely love the Antichrist. They're going to say that he's the Messiah, and he's going to be on their team in the beginning,
and then at the midpoint, I believe that he is going to turn on them, and he's going to destroy them. And that's their punishment.
So they're tempted to accept this fake Antichrist, and then they get punished for doing it.
Because the devil doesn't love his people. The devil doesn't love Marilyn Manson.
Don't some of them accept him, obviously, and take the mark and still be his minions to some degree?
Maybe not all of them, but...
You know, it's hard to say exactly how this is going to play out. Obviously, I'm speaking in generalities, because obviously there are always going to be individuals making their own decisions, doing their own thing.
So when we talk about the Jews, there's always going to be exceptions that prove the rule. You can't just paint necessarily with a broad brush.
And yeah, you're right. Obviously, there are secular Jews, Orthodox Jews, Reform Jews, conservative Jews, Hasidic Jews. You have all these different branches.
So I'm not going to sit here and pretend that I know how all that's going to play out and work.
All I'm saying is that in general, the Jews in general, the Israelis in general, in the beginning, are going to be on team Antichrist.
And then, ultimately, are going to be destroyed. Obviously, that's not going to be consistent to the individual.
Because every person makes their own decisions in life.
Well, I guess the two people I kind of thought of is the woman in the garden. It's like the devil's kind of her best friend until after she eats the apple.
And then now they're enemies and they want to kind of destroy each other. Or Judas Iscariot.
That's a perfect example.
Judas Iscariot is inhabited by the devil and is kind of doing his bidding and they're like best buds.
And then, of course, after having turned on the Lord Jesus Christ and betraying him, Judas even feels so bad about it and recognizes that what he did was so terrible, he ends up killing himself.
And so obviously, you know, the devil is the enemy of all mankind. Like he's not on anybody's team.
You know, they're just useful idiots or useful pawns. And I kind of get the feeling that that's how Jews feel towards Byron.
Like that he's just this useful idiot that they're just getting heifers from.
And they know he's a bumbling, fumbling idiot, but they just kind of want to like take advantage of him.
Because, again, from their point of view, goyim are inferior just to be used and taken advantage of.
And they don't even care that Byron's completely inconsistent, doesn't even know what he's saying.
Even though he claims to believe in Jesus and they don't like that or believe in that, they just kind of go along to get along because he's worshipping them as rabbis and whatever.
And they just take his cows and just kick them to the curb. I mean, I don't know.
And I wish Christian Zionists and especially our fundamental Baptist brethren would recognize what you're saying right now, Pastor Shelley,
and what Pastor Anderson pointed out earlier in the broadcast, that he is, in a sense, a manifestation of what happens when you take their false doctrine to its inevitable end.
You become this Judy Isaac psycho like he is.
And, you know, it's too bad because I think most of them, they just kind of dismiss it.
Oh, that's just an outlier. He's just an extremist like John Hagee. That's not what we believe.
And we get that. I know that, you know, our fundamental Baptist brethren aren't going around saying Jews are automatically saved.
But still, they should take heed to where this doctrine leads, I think.
It's kind of dual covenant theology, and I think a lot of people might subscribe to that concept or that idea of just being kind of ignorant.
We do have a caller, and I want to just get his perspective real quick.
But we have someone that called in from California, Tony, who wanted to ask this question.
Tony, how's it going?
Good, brother. How are you?
Doing great. How's it going, Tony?
Good. Good. So my question is actually about, yeah, I've only seen about half of it because I was out soul winning, and I was trying to watch it in and out.
That's really good soul winning motivation. I'm just kidding.
Pop that earpiece in, brother. Pop that earpiece in and listen while you soul win. I'm just kidding.
Yeah, I thought I was going in and out of service, but my question actually was about the 24 elders.
I know it's a little off topic, and if you guys didn't want to, you know, get into a question about the 24 elders, I'll be fine.
I think it's in records, kind of, about the heifer. Go ahead.
Yeah. So have you ever considered that the 24 elders might be the 12 disciples and the 12 tribes of Israel, like Judah, Reuben, Gad?
The 12 patriarchs, the 12 apostles?
Yeah. Yeah. I was just curious of what you guys thought about that.
I guess I don't know.
It's just kind of pure speculation, right? I mean, maybe.
You do have the temple name after them.
I don't think so, though, but it could be.
I like to think that it's just kind of a hall of fame of just like 24 outstanding pastors from the last few thousand years or something that just get to be the elders. Who knows?
Pastor Hiles or whatever.
Yeah, and I've heard you talk on that before, as in like hopes of being one of those elders, you know, and that's great. You know, it's a great thing to aspire to.
But I was just curious if you thought that maybe it could possibly be like tying in the old covenant with the new covenant with the disciples and the 12 tribes to make the 24.
I would say at a minimum, you know, I don't think it's literally that, but I think that, you know, I would say it almost for sure symbolizes that.
I think you could almost certainly say that those 24 people are kind of symbolizing that connection of old and new because you do have things like that throughout the book of Revelation.
You know, you got 12 apostles over here, 12 tribes over here.
I mean, those things are brought up, and so the number 24 is obviously 12 and 12, 12 for the Old Testament, 12 for the New Testament.
I think the symbolism, you're on solid ground. I just don't necessarily think it's literally those 24 people, probably just symbolic.
I mean, Jesus does make reference to the disciples sitting on thrones and judging the 12 tribes of Israel.
So obviously that could maybe be some level of indication. Of course, they're going to be pretty high up in status.
So I think it's an interesting idea. I would not be dogmatic, though, personally.
Okay, I appreciate it, brothers. Thank you.
Slightly off topic, but that's a pretty good verse to go to if you want to help people understand what Romans 11 26 is actually talking about when it says,
All is real shall be saved.
So I want to just mention one thing, too, about the, you know, let's get back to the heifer, folks.
Yes. I'm just kidding. I'm being like Owen Troyer. Is that his name?
Yeah. Owen, moderating.
Back to the heifer, people.
Back to the heifer, please. We got into the Pulse Nightclub.
I want to talk about Leviticus 2013. I'm like Pastor Anderson from the moon.
He's like, I want to get to the moon, I want to get to the moon. I'm like, I want to get to Leviticus 2013.
We were getting into the Pulse Nightclub and everything, and he's like, I don't want to stick to this topic. Back to the heifer.
Yeah, here we go. This is the point I was making with Jews.
Yeah, well, it was, here's what I wanted to bring up, just how stupid it is, this thing of like, that there can't be a single white hair on this red heifer or whatever.
Because the thing about that is that when the Bible says that the lamb is supposed to be without spot and without blemish,
the whole point of that is basically just saying you don't want it to have some big scab or some big wound or some big bald spot, some weird birthmark or something.
He's just saying you want it to be a good clean lamb.
Obviously, the point is you want to offer your best to God, and it's supposed to picture Jesus Christ being sinless and so forth,
but taking it to these extremes of going over it with a microscope is just stupid and ridiculous.
Obviously, if it's just a white lamb, it looks clean, it looks healthy, you're good to go.
Is it okay if you paint it?
I mean, if you do go over it with a microscope, you're going to find problems.
I mean, like the Bible says Absalom had no blemish on his body from head to toe.
That just means bro had great skin.
It doesn't mean you have to sit there and put it through a microscope on a slide taking skin samples of the guy.
Because if you look at anything close enough that's biological, everything biological is filled with imperfections.
There's no such thing as a human or an animal that doesn't have anything out of place or anything physically abnormal.
But when the Bible is saying, hey, the priests, they shouldn't be a hunchback or somebody with missing body parts or extra body parts,
it doesn't mean that they can't have a single pimple or something on their entire body.
We have to go over it with a magnifying glass to make sure.
But the Jews take all of God's commandments to the point of absurdity.
Like, oh, on the Sabbath we can't kindle a fire, therefore I'm not allowed to turn off a light switch.
If your lights are running, they can't switch it off.
Or what about cheeseburgers?
That's extinguishing a fire on the Sabbath.
What about cheeseburgers, Pastor Anderson?
Aren't they against eating cheeseburgers because thou shalt not see the kid in his mother's milk or something like that?
Am I getting that right?
Yeah, but what's even weirder is that they won't even eat chicken with cheese.
Chicken with cheese?
You can't milk a chicken.
The chicken does not give suck.
It's not a mammal.
So it would be literally impossible to see the chicken in its mother's milk.
But just to be safe, they won't even eat a chicken sandwich with cheese on it.
And let's face it, a chicken sandwich with cheese on it is good.
I mean, Chick-fil-A is way too expensive.
But it's a ripoff.
But if I do go to Chick-fil-A, I get the deluxe, where you get the spicy one, and then you add the cheese, the lettuce, the tomato, you get all that.
Chick-fil-A deluxe sandwich.
And, you know, orthodoxy be damned.
You go for the chicken on the cheese.
How about Adam King also mocking the idea of the Trinity?
This happened on the stream as well.
We called it esoteric, which I really wanted to comment on.
Yeah, I'd like to get your comment on that, and you'll have to forgive me.
I'm not quite sure what that even means, esoteric.
This is coming from the same guy who believes in reincarnation.
It's like private or hidden knowledge.
Yeah, maybe you can comment on that.
This is what he means by, I'll tell you exactly what he means by esoteric.
What he's saying is that it's a mystical teaching outside of the Bible.
That it's not explicitly taught in Scripture, but that is something that has been, you know, fabricated by philosophers or, you know, through some kind of a mystical means.
It's purgatory.
Obviously, the word esoteric, the most basic meaning of the word esoteric, the S part of that means inside or in.
And esoteric, if I brought up something esoteric, it's something that only very few people would understand.
And obviously, the Trinity is not esoteric because of the fact that billions of people all over the world would claim to believe in the Trinity.
The Trinity is something that, like, billions of people literally would say, yes, I believe in the Trinity.
So that's not esoteric.
Esoteric is knowledge that is held by a very small number of people.
Like, it's the type of stuff that you learn.
Secret knowledge when you go into the temple of Moloch.
Or the Mormon tabernacle and you have to get the hidden handshakes or something like that.
Like, these are typically the most common understandings of esoteric.
Thank you for explaining.
I was going to just, I just wanted to make the comment, when you have a billion Catholics and a billion Christians that believe in the Trinity, it's not esoteric.
Especially considering the fact that there's many verses that are pointing this information out.
And that's why I tried to, I kind of tried to squeeze in just that, hey, Genesis 1 says, let us make man in our image after our likeness.
You didn't have to go far to see something the Bible's bringing up about God being plural in the sense that it's not just...
Well, even in their Hebrew Bible, you know, even the name of God itself, Elohim, is plural.
The other big name of God that they use the most often, Adonai, because whenever they come to the Tetragrammaton, they pronounce Adonai.
Adonai is also plural.
So, Adonai is plural, Elohim is plural.
And in Hebrew, plural is technically three or more because they have singular, excuse me, singular, dual, and plural.
So, you know, you have Elohim, Adonai, and these things, but they're words that are treated as singulars, but they're plural in structure.
So it's a plural word used with a singular verb.
And so therefore, you know, like you said, you don't have to go far.
If you're reading it in Hebrew, it's really Genesis 1-1.
You're going to see this already alluded to.
And then obviously, let us make man in our image.
And even stronger than that is the statement in Genesis 3 where he says, the man has become like unto one of us.
Yeah, exactly.
You can't really make an argument for a royal we there when you're saying...
The royal us.
The royal we would not say one of us.
They might say we or us using a royal we, but nobody's going to say one of us.
I mean, that's plural.
Well, Legion might say that.
And we're talking Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.
And I don't care how many theologians just, oh, you know, that's so ridiculous or whatever.
No, it's true.
Yeah.
Let us make man in our image is the Trinity talking.
I saw some comment asking, did Byron ever use the name Jesus?
Or was he always saying Yeshua?
I don't know the answer to that, but I don't remember him saying that.
Real quick about that.
When you or Pastor Jimenez was trying to pin him down about, you know, is Jesus the Messiah?
I don't know if you guys noticed this, but he kept deflecting and saying, oh, Jesus will be the Messiah.
Like, every single time he would switch, he would switch to a future tense.
Right.
Like he will be the...
Well, yeah, he will be the Messiah.
He's not saying he is the Messiah now or that he was the Messiah when he was here on this earth.
And this is exactly what John Hagee taught.
Jesus didn't come to be the Messiah.
He never claimed to be the Messiah.
He did not claim in word or deed to be the Messiah.
How can the Jews be blamed for not accepting that which was never offered unto them?
This book will shake Christian theology.
You could do the Adderly just for him.
I'm delighted to introduce my new book in defense of Israel.
But basically, obviously, like, that's exactly what John Hagee's thing was.
Like, well, he will be the Messiah when he comes.
So to them, it is kind of the first coming of the Messiah because they're freaking Jews.
That's why.
But the bottom line is that if you think about Jesus on this earth, he's at the well with the woman.
And she says, I know that when Messiahs cometh, he'll show us all things or he'll tell us all things.
And he says, I that speak unto you am he.
Right.
Like, I'm him. I'm talking to you right now.
I'm the Messiah.
Yeah.
Right.
And obviously, he's saying he didn't say, well, I'm going to I'm going to be the Messiah like a couple thousand years from now.
Well, he said we found the Messiah.
How did how did the how did they come to that conclusion if they didn't think we had found the Messiahs, which is being interpreted the Christ?
Well, you could make the argument, well, that's just what they were saying.
You know, but but this is Jesus himself saying it.
And not only that, Peter's confession, thou art the Christ, the son of the living God.
And he says, blessed art thou, Simon, son of Jonah, because flesh and blood did not reveal that to you.
But my father, which is in heaven.
So that that can't be them just getting overly excited in John Chapter one saying, oh, we found the Messiah.
When when Peter says you're the Messiah, he says, God revealed that to you.
That's good. And and and and he tells the woman at the well, I'm the Messiah.
Right. So but why did Byron always feel the need to switch that into the future tense?
Because he's full of crap. That's why.
Because I'm not a Christian because he's not a Christian.
I just like it when Pastor Menes does it.
Now, everything that he just said is complete garbage.
Oh, is that what I think? I think that's it.
Do you remember when Byron literally said that that the Jews told him like that he was actually a Jew and just didn't know it?
No, I don't remember that.
I just listened to the whole broadcast before coming on here today so that I could be prepared for this conversation.
And and he clearly said and he said it just really quickly and just kind of like muttered it.
But he did say that the Jews told him, like, well, you're you're a Jew and you just don't know it.
Like you're scattered among your you're of the diaspora. You just don't know.
Oh, no, I vaguely remember that. Yeah.
It's he must be just a Jew in the diaspora and that that knowledge has just been lost.
So he's probably got all goosebumps and everything. And, you know, you know, when I compare.
Judaizers, too, they're basically like the theological weebs, you know, like, you know, these people that really geek out on Japanese culture and just like they're just like these really white kids, but they're just like super into everything Japanese and anime and all this kind of stuff.
And they just kind of just really geek out over the culture.
Well, that's how I feel like these people are just with Israeli culture.
They're just like weebs about Israel.
Is this a dweeb? It's really no different. The same phenomenon.
It's just this like because let's face it, things that are Japanese are kind of like cool and exotic and different.
And so then that's how they feel about Jews. It's kind of like this exotic, cool, like instead of just being this farm boy raising heifers, he's like on a secret mission to raise the red heifer.
He is on a secret mission because remember the voice that told him he's going to help the Jews or whatever.
He had a conversation with God audibly. That's how we started the debate.
And Lucifer.
Yes, and Lucifer.
Lucifer was there, too.
Lucifer was there, too. That's how we started the entire debate. That set the stage.
I just feel like he might have mixed up the voices of Lucifer and God because then the story makes sense because he heard God and Lucifer talking. I think he just mistook whose voice was whose.
I think so, too.
Maybe God maybe God was telling Lucifer, hey, this guy's going to help the Jews.
And Lucifer was like, oh, yeah, OK, this is the guy I'm going to use to bring in the Antichrist.
God told Lucifer, hey, you know, whenever you go to enshrine the Antichrist, this guy is going to help you with the red heifer part of that.
Well, he he definitely is.
Here's what I want to know. Is there any way and I don't know anything about cows or farming or anything, but like, I feel like if this guy could just bottle some of the milk from these red heifers, I'll drink it.
I'll put it in my cereal because maybe it can produce healings.
I'll slaughter it and I'll eat it.
Yeah, but imagine like drinking the milk of the red heifer.
Oh, man, you could make strawberry milk, put it in your cinnamon toast crunch and be my wife loves chocolate milkshake.
So maybe that would heal, you know, any she's her throat's hurting.
So if I can get a chocolate milkshake made from a red heifer, that's where the healing power comes from.
This is what Adam King was talking about on the broadcast is the healing power of the red.
What do you think? I brought up the idea of these this being lying signs and wonders, like they actually start performing these sacrifices and then literally kind of like what he's saying actually happens.
I mean, is there any any potentiality of that actually being the case?
Do you think that that could be a reality?
I mean, anything's possible because I mean, obviously, well, I'm saying like the magicians did magic, right?
But I'm just curious, is is God going to let the devil do miraculous healings?
Like, is there going to be obviously the I would say the Antichrist himself is a miraculous healing, right?
I mean, he dies and comes back to the Antichrist himself is a miraculous healing.
But the specific lying wonder that we get is, you know, making fire come down from heaven on earth inside of men.
So we don't really, you know, but but outside of that, we don't really know what the wonders are.
But what about what about like Elon Musk?
Because, again, I kind of brought this up, like Elon Musk is is trying with the neuro link to potentially like restore the sight of the blind and kind of like heal people through the planting of these particular chips and stuff.
I mean, is that I don't think anybody thinks that that's a miracle, though.
I mean, that's that's just that's just technology.
I mean, that's that's a good thing if he can. It would still seem miraculous, right?
I mean, if he can heal people's blindness with technology, I'm for it.
No, I'm not saying that I'm against that in theory, but like, if somebody see that as like some level of miracle, like maybe, you know, I think it's going to be real.
I think it's going to be like more dramatic than that, because if you look at the stuff that the sorcerers were doing in Egypt, I mean, it was some pretty impressive stuff.
But there was limitations.
There was limitations to how much there was limitations on their magic, right?
And there will be limitations in the end times, too. Same thing. Yeah.
Well, overall, from the debate perspective, did you did you feel like I mean, how how was the overall debate experience?
Tell us about maybe the structure. How do you what do you think about that?
I mean, frankly, it was it was kind of it was kind of painful just to listen to those guys, like, like, like, this is what I hate about debates in general is because, like, you spend half the time listening to somebody who's full of baloney.
Like, I remember back in 2000.
Was it half the time?
Like 90% of the time, and they wouldn't shut up.
Back in 2008, I remember Pastor Burzins gave me a DVD.
And it was all the Republican debates from the entire 2008 campaign year, except it just cut everyone out except Ron Paul.
Oh, that's great. Ron Paul.
And whenever someone else starts knocking, it would just jump to the next Ron Paul.
I was like, well, this is the way to watch these debates.
Like, yeah, just listen to Ron Paul, because everybody else is full of baloney anyway.
And so like, that's kind of how I feel when I'm listening to these debates is that, you know, you just end up listening to bozos for half the time, or in this case, 70% of the time.
And because because, you know, they got a lot more airtime than Pastor Jimenez and Pastor Shelley.
And then the other thing about it is that I feel like I personally prefer conversations where there's like a little more common ground, because it's kind of hard to even talk to these people because there's just no common ground.
Like you, you know, one guy doesn't even believe in the New Testament at all. So it's like, everything you're referencing from the New Testament just means nothing to the guy.
So I was kind of hoping that I was hoping Byron Stinson would be that guy, I knew nothing about him at all prior to this debate.
And so I thought maybe he'll be the one that we have some common ground with that perhaps he's just deceived on Christian Zionism or something like that.
But then that went out the window the first like 30 seconds of the debate or whatever, we talked about talking to the devil and stuff.
So yeah, I kind of assumed there wouldn't be common ground. But yeah, I just feel like I feel like it's better when there's like a lot of common ground, and maybe just one bone of contention or a couple of bones of contention.
When you just disagree on literally everything, then it's just kind of all over the place. And then and then when you have four people, and then it's just like, it just goes so many different directions, I would say in the future.
Like, I would rather see more of a one on one debate. And I know that's what you originally envisioned for this, but Adam King just demanded to have a sidekick or whatever.
But like, if you know, I think it'd be better just to have two people talking. And it's better when they agree on more than they disagree on, because then or at least have like some kind of a foundation to to argue from that's a common foundation.
Because on the one hand, you have Adam, who just doesn't believe the New Testament at all. And then you have Byron who claims to believe the New Testament, but is tantamount to a Jew.
I mean, he's saying, Jews go to heaven without Jesus. Jesus is a messiah. Jesus, well, actually, no, he's not even a messiah. He's just he will be the messiah when he comes the second time.
He's basically like believing in a future Jesus, but not believing in the Jesus of the Bible. So he's not a Christian, you know, because, oh, I believe the New Testament, but then anything you quote from the just me, he doesn't believe it isn't believe the Trinity doesn't believe the deity of Christ.
He doesn't. Yeah, I mean, Pastor Jimenez like quoted Galatians three and he just flat out said that was wrong. Like after the first was basically after the first was quoted, it was just like, that's wrong.
Yeah, that was a pastor in his opinion. There was no rebuttal, just the text. Did you notice no rebuttal on Pastor Jimenez when he brought up Galatians chapter three, no rebuttal to what the text actually says, other than to say, I don't believe that.
Well, what does it say that, could you give us, could you grace us with your interpretation then Byron, if it doesn't say what it actually said, what does it say then?
He didn't believe Christians die and go to heaven. He said that repeatedly. Christians will not go to heaven when they die. And then he also repeatedly said that, you know, basically these Jews who don't believe in Jesus, like they have their own, they're like grandfathered in under the old covenant, the old covenant still there.
And so how is that Christianity at all? Like the guy is like 99% Jew, 1% Christian. Yes. And so he was like, he's the most extreme duty as I've ever seen.
Like just saying stuff from the Bible.
John Hagee blushed, John Hagee blushed on that live stream last night.
But like he, he like brought up and he says, he's telling us how the Jews are blinded. And so I thought, okay, so are you admitting that Adam is blinded? And then when I brought that point up, he just says, everyone's blinded.
And it was just like, do you even understand the words that are coming out of your mouth right now? Because you just said that the Jews are blinded, which is a truth from the scripture.
I mean, that's what the Bible literally says. And I even quoted some verses on that, but then he just kind of wheeled his way out of it when confronted with the application.
And they just, here was the thing was frustrating. They never stuck to a point. If we, if we tried to hammer them or get them on a point, like they just started talking about something completely unrelated or just monologuing.
And it was like, I just, it was a little disappointing that we didn't get to like, just stay focused on a specific point and get an answer out of them.
You know, Hey, what, what's with the inconsistency on Leviticus 2013, or why are you not doing the Passover lamb or, you know, what do you believe about this specific verse or what is the synagogue of Satan?
Like even then they didn't even provide any kind of real answer. They just talked past it. And that was frustrating.
You know, there might be around two and I might do more of like an interview style, maybe just a one-on-one with Adam or something just to like get some answers out of the Talmud because like, here's, here's my view.
I think it's good for people to hear what these people actually believe because I meet so many Christians and they think that Jews literally believe everything in the Old Testament.
Like they just, you know, they understand that Abraham, like they believe Adam and Eve is real and, and they believe all these other things instead of actually hearing someone say like reincarnation and all this other stuff.
I mean, Marching to Zion changed a lot of people's opinion. I've heard so many people. In fact, I visited like another country with just some, some friends and they were like, have you ever seen this movie called Marching to Zion?
And I was like, yeah, that's great. And I think that there's just a lot of people that need to see that film and need to see it not only in your film, but in real life.
Like they could say like, Oh, he tricked them or like deceive them or something, but it's like, here's another Jew. And let's just keep lining them up and letting them talk and show, you know, what they believe.
We filmed that movie a decade ago. We filmed it in 2014. It was released in 2015. And since then I've had a lot of interaction with Jews in the area here.
And, and I'll tell you, every conversation that I've had with Jews since then has confirmed that everything in that film is accurate. There's nothing in that film where my literally hundreds of hours that I've spent talking to Jews since then would say like, Oh, well, we got that a little off in the film.
I mean, the film's accurate. I mean, it's coming out of their own mouths, accurate. And you know, one thing also that Adam said, I want to get back to, you know, the real important subject Leviticus 2013.
You know, he said like, Oh, you know, you'd have to have like two people like walk in and just catch the sodomites and flagrante, you know, and that's the only way they're going to be configured. This is so stupid because apply that same principle to murder.
Because obviously the Bible says every death penalty offense has to be confirmed with two witnesses. Yeah, but so does that mean I can just murder someone and as long as two people aren't watching me do it like literally watching me do it.
I'm never going to be convicted right like like like I can just go in a room with somebody. We hear a gunshot.
I walk out covered in blood and there's a dead body in there, but it's a, yeah, but I mean, did two people see you do it though? I mean, that's not what the Bible is teaching. It's so dumb.
Well, I guess that's, I guess that's why the Jews really emphasized when they caught the woman adultery. We caught her in the very act. Yeah, exactly.
And it's, it's the same thing with, believe it or not, with Rabbi Ruben Mann, which was the guy in marching design who's like, so we killed somebody so what you know maybe deserve it.
So that guy, we were talking to him like before and after the interview, because, like, the interviews were great, but there was also a lot of just great conversation like while we're setting up the equipment while we're taking down the equipment.
And the issue of Leviticus 2013 came up just while we were like taking down the equipment we were just chatting, and he literally gave just verbatim the answer that Adam gave like, Oh, it's so strict like two people would just, I mean you really expect me to believe
that if you're walking around as open sodomites in Israel they wouldn't be subject to the death penalty I mean it's absurd. Yeah, because obviously, you know, two witnesses is just basically referring to obviously two strong pieces of evidence or something
you know it could be, it could be, you know, if we both saw the guy go into the room.
There's a gun shot, the guy walks out and there's a dead body in the room, you know, you don't have to actually see the moment of death, because then otherwise, all you have to do is just take somebody in a room and shoot them and you'd get away with it every single time, doesn't
I mean sense. Yes, someone said just all the witnesses.
Yeah, just kill everybody leave no witness and you're fine. I mean, how can any intelligent person think this way. You know, so, so it's like, I think that it's one of those arguments that kind of sounds good when you first hear it like, Oh, that's true.
If you actually think it through. It's like no, that's not the way the world works. That's not the way criminal justice ever works. Yeah, I mean what about just a single confession, what if the person just openly admits they did it like are we going to now say but nobody witnessed
it so now we can't punish them because even.
I know I'm just saying like they're just openly admitting it kind of like the guy did about the David confronts guy who's willingly admitting like he killed Saul.
It's like, Oh, but there wasn't two witnesses there so now we can't put them to death it's like no no you you admitted it. All right, go for it.
Obviously we have to be careful with confessions because sometimes people are tortured or pressured into giving auto versions and so we're Berg auto warm beer, warm beer, we're Berg, the North Korea hostage.
Yes, auto warm beer. But, but at the end of the day, I mean, you know, there are all kinds of pieces of evidence we all deal with this as pastors because we have people come to us as pastors and bring accusations against other people.
And we always confirm everything in the mouth of two or three witnesses. We don't just discipline people based upon one piece of evidence or one person's testimony. When I say discipline people, for those who don't know what that means.
We're talking about kicking people out of the church we're talking about, you know, expelling them for fellowship, we obviously don't.
We obviously don't physically discipline people, but we would call church discipline when we would, you know, do like first Corinthians five or Matthew 18 teaches of putting people out of fellowship, and, you know, important explain indicating people from church.
But, but, but the point is, we all deal with the standards of proof and saying hey, wait a minute. If you're going to bring a serious accusation. You better have some real evidence.
And it's not going to be based upon just yeah but but if someone came up to you, and just said, Hey, I'm in violation of first Corinthians five of being a drunkard, and you don't have two or three witnesses.
It's like you would have to still deal with that, because obviously self admission is reasonable enough to do something with obviously they're being no, and of course.
Yeah, of course with first Corinthians five it's important to realize that anyone who's repentant sure is to be reinstated so you know i i've confronted people about drunkenness for example, because one of the things in first Corinthians five is drunkenness.
I've confronted someone about drunkenness. And if the person is repentant, and they're sorry, and they want to be sober and they're willing to quit drinking, then, then we don't need to embarrass the person or throw them out of church or anything like that.
It's only the unrepentant or same thing goes for obviously other things too you know but fornication people who are unrepentant lying about it.
You know, whatever and they're caught in fornication they're caught and drunkenness and they're not repentant about it, you know, then obviously they have to be dealt with, you know, and so.
When it comes to something like murder or sodomy or adultery or whatever, you know, obviously, adultery is not a spectator sport, you know what I mean.
People aren't gonna see adultery happening necessarily, I mean catching her in the very act in John chapter eight. That's a pretty weird situation, the vast majority of the time.
There could be really strong evidence, people could see them you know climbing in your windows or whatever, you know, and they see that they see that type of a scenario, or like you said somebody even admits that they did it.
They were seen showing up at the middle of the night. Both people, you know, if you see for example, a married man and a married woman, and they both show up at some seedy hotel and book a room and they both go in the room together.
Right. Can we just say like, well we didn't watch them doing it, or would we say, hey, we're pretty reasonably sure that when these people showed up at the no tell motel together that that's what they're doing we don't have to actually watch.
Yeah, they could have been playing Uno.
With CCTV. We also have that as a very reliable witness nowadays and so I think that would obviously count as well that you know it's just like I agree with you just pieces of evidence it's like the, the log at the hotel and the CCTV camera watching them go in is the two witnesses, you know, it's like it's we don't need to have
to physical people. They're watching, and I just kind of made the joke I said I'm sure the pride parade provides more enough evidence by itself.
We need no other witnesses, what it's kind of like what they said about Jesus like what other witnesses do we need, you know, at that point. But again, the whole point I was just trying to make is like, they have so many commandments from the Old Testament
that they could be doing right now, without this red heifer that they're not doing so so it's like it doesn't seem genuine, or that they really care about following the Old Testament and I think that's the point that needs to be brought out is the fact that these Jews don't really
believe the Old Testament they just like to cherry pick some of the more, you know, cute cool, you know, the red heifer you know it's like it's not even the biggest sacrifice in the Bible like you would think the Passover lamb would be more of a big deal.
Then the red heifer mentioned once but I don't see them sacrificing a bunch of lambs on Passover. I don't see them, you know doing and putting it on a doorpost or something it's obvious he was anything semblance any semblance of the Old Testament he's just glossing
over your point Pastor Shelley, like when you bring up Leviticus 2013.
He did admit it at least. He admitted it. He kind of almost admitted it in a sense. The way that he interpreted the application. He did say that theoretically they should be killed. He did admit it.
My point is, is that he tried to make the application almost impossible in practice to actually implement with this thing of well you have to catch them in the very act and things like that and my point is that I think it was obvious that you caught him in an
And that he does not value Leviticus 2013 like he does this red heifer thing. And he really just had no way out at that point.
Yeah, because you were there bringing I think Pastor Mendez brought the point like you feel like you're negative on that verse like it's something wrong with it or it's bad or something he rolled his eyes.
But again, like I've heard Dennis Prager who's also a Jew say they like this whole Bible study him and Jordan Peterson they have like a show where they're like interpreting every verse in the Old Testament.
And Dennis Prager pretty much just admitted like the only death penalty crime in the Bible is murder. And it's like what do you mean that's the only death penalty. And so they're just kind of like making all these other ones metaphors or symbolic or something like that.
So I was genuinely interested like does Adam take this metaphoric approach that Dennis Prager does. Does he think that that should be still be done. Does he not even believe in that one.
Even in the 20th century, people were put to death for kidnapping in America. So, yeah. No, I mean, I'm pretty sure I remember that being a thing. I mean, you know, I'd have to research the actual cases, but I'm pretty sure I remember growing up my parents telling me, hey, you know, kidnapping is punishable by the death penalty under certain situations.
And I know that even while I was a pastor, the Supreme Court ruled and they changed it to where the death penalty could only be for murder. That was a ruling that happened in the early days of my ministry maybe 15 years ago or something. Because before that you could get the death penalty for kidnapping.
Well, and even in the 21st century, homosexuality was a crime in Texas, at least until 2003. So do you remember the statute? Yeah, it's like 21.06 or seven, something like that. But it's it's obviously it's one of those trigger laws, right? We need the Roe v. Wade and then because they got mad.
Lawrence, there's there's an abortion statute in Arizona where you're at. I think it's like 1864 or something like that. Some law of 1864 is is considered law in Arizona right now in regards to abortion because of the trigger law of Roe v. Wade.
It finally got up to the state Supreme Court and they recently ruled on it. And then, like, everyone freaked out. Carrie Lake freaked out. She's just like, oh, I didn't you know, that's way too extreme.
Too harsh. Trump kind of alluded to this as well. He said, I mean, how do you feel like it was too far in your state? Are you upset about the abortion laws that are going on right now?
To be honest with you, I have no idea what you're talking about. I mean, all the news. He's just blessing Arizona without trying.
I think like you have the abortion laws.
I heard something about a really strict abortion law. But I, you know, obviously, I'm totally against abortion. So I'm sure it's wonderful. I just don't know anything about doing an idea.
But I did. I did just Google this guy, Carol Chessman, who is a guy who was convicted and put to death in 1964 kidnapping.
And it was it was called the Little Lindbergh law, which actually defined kidnapping as a capital offense under certain circumstances.
And so this has been done away with. But he was sent to the gas chamber in 1964 kidnapping, you know, so I mean, I guess, according to the Israelites, you know, you should be able to kidnap and whatever.
But the Bible literally says that if you steal a man, you'll be put to death. Right. Well, I know that the Texas governor, Rick Perry, put a lot of people to death.
Like there was like several hundred people that under his reign. And that was like 90s. So that wasn't even that long ago.
I looked it up. The Associated Press says this about California. The Arizona Supreme Court brought back the 1864 law.
And it says this. The Arizona statehood provides no exceptions for rape or incest. And it technically only allows abortion if the mother's life was in jeopardy.
Also, it says that doctors can be prosecuted under the law like abortion doctors could be prosecuted. So it sounds great to me.
So, you know, ever since I've lived in Arizona and I've lived here for like about 18 years now, I believe the laws just keep getting better and better, like all the laws keep getting better.
Like everything's getting better. It's wonderful. Like they like pass some law that like gave tax breaks to landlords who rent space to churches.
It's just like all these laws keep getting passed that are just so specific and just like so beneficial.
I think I know someone who's named Steven Anderson. I think I know someone who may like that law. I don't know.
That's funny. No, I mean, obviously, hey, maybe God's just blessing that area because you're over there. I don't know. Who knows?
Arizona is awesome. And so now we have the best abortion laws. Yeah, great.
Maybe that'll get rid of some of the feminist weirdos that are in that country, that part of the land.
Yes, there was a feminist who brought that up to me the other day. And that was the first I heard of it. Like literally two days ago that was brought up to me.
And I'm just like, I don't know, because I haven't heard of that.
Brought up to you?
And then my wife brought it up to me yesterday. Now you're bringing it up to me today.
So this is the third time I've heard about it.
What is that effect called or something?
Before two days ago, I'd never even heard of it.
This is like the Dennis or the something Krueger effect. What is it called?
You're talking about the Bader-Meinhof phenomenon.
Oh, the Bider, okay.
This is not the Bader-Meinhof phenomenon because Bader-Meinhof phenomenon has to be something obscure.
It's like when you hear about something really obscure and then you like hear about it again shortly thereafter and you keep hearing about it.
But the 1864 abortion laws probably like massive news right now.
So like it's just I'm living in a bubble is what it is.
Sorry, the Dunning-Kruger effect is when you overestimate your abilities. I was way off.
Yeah, Dunning-Kruger effect is also known as the Kent Hovind effect.
Where people we know very little about a subject think that they know a lot about it.
And that like the more you learn, the more you learn, the more you realize you don't know.
That's the Dunning-Kruger phenomenon.
Well, I really appreciate you coming on and giving us some feedback.
Is there one other topic or another thing you wanted to bring up, Ben, about kind of the show?
I mean most of my list is crossed out. I think we hit the big ones.
You had some epic memes. We kind of threw some of them out there just randomly.
But it is it's just kind of funny how the show went in some in some regards.
But I kind of my only wish is that maybe we had asked Owen if you'd be willing to allow us to deviate a little bit from the subject.
I thought he did a great job of keeping us grounded on the topic.
But because the topic kind of expands into so many different areas, you know, again, I was I was trying to drive at some of those more under the hood or bigger pictures.
I was trying to capture topics because to me they help address that issue, because if we're going to just bring up is can you find the word red heifer in the Bible?
It's like, yeah, of course, there's in the Bible. But, you know, that's not really the question. Is it biblical or not?
You know, there's a lot of things you can just find in the Bible.
There was potential for a larger discussion on replacement theology and some other issues that naturally came up organically throughout the live stream.
But he did. You're right. I mean, he did a good job.
I wish that he had allowed me to get Adam to admit who the Messiah was, because he kept saying, like, there's a Messiah.
And I kind of made a half joke, but I'm like, is it Ben Shapiro? But then I said, like, is it Netanyahu?
Like, if you believe there's a Messiah of the day, like, can't you point us to who that particular individual is?
No, because he might just be telling, according to Adam, he might just be a falafel stand owner.
Yeah, whatever that is. That was ridiculous.
Do you remember that?
Really? A falafel stand operator is the Messiah? But he's probably one of those failed ones then, right?
Falafels are very tasty.
Well, it depends on how good the falafel is.
Falafel's good.
It's his true calling. He's going to save the world through falafels or what?
He's bringing peace into the world and joy and happiness.
I do love Mediterranean food, so.
Finally, somebody I can take to a Lebanese restaurant next time he's here.
I love it.
Maybe I'm just antisemitic or something. That's probably my issue.
All right, next time I'm in Dallas, Ben, it's going to be falafel.
Yes. Tabbouleh.
Oh, Tabbouleh, you like Tabbouleh. He likes Tabbouleh.
I'm going to do all of it, man.
Oh, I got to take you to a great restaurant.
I'm way more America first than you guys.
I need the burger and the steak and, you know, if it didn't have legs, I don't want to eat it.
Oh, man. Good night.
Well, we'll have you sing in the Lebanese national anthem next time you come visit after you're done eating the great food.
Appreciate you coming onto the live stream.
Yeah, I appreciate you coming on a short notice and we just wanted to have a quick recap.
So you had some really good insight there.
You know, I don't know what we're going to have in the future, but I think it's a great opportunity to bring up Marching to Zion.
You got to check it out. You got to watch it, try to find it.
Also, you know, this was partly brought to you by John Hagee Ministries.
You know, there was a pretty good infomercial you did back there.
But that's what you can find in the movie.
That's right. Marching to Zion.
We need to find like that clip and just like make a clip out of it or something, put it on Instagram.
But do you have any last thoughts there, Pastor Anderson, before we let you go?
No, man. Thanks for having me come on and letting me put in my two cents.
Yep. Of course, it's great to have you come on. You're always welcome.
We look forward to bringing you on again in a few weeks and bring up the Daniel series.
And boy, it just seems like the world that we're living in, that Daniel series gets more relevant, not less.
Well, like I mentioned last week, there were plenty of opportunities to put in modern day B-roll,
even some clips that fit perfectly with the preaching from 2018.
And you guys that are watching the stream, you'll know what I'm talking about once we release it to the world.
I'm very excited about that.
Well, I have to admit, I think that the debate went pretty well.
Pastor Jimenez was a class act. He didn't get to speak much, but boy, every time he did, it was great.
I thought his closing argument was really, really solid, and I appreciated how it kind of ended the show.
And so, you know, again, you did have to weed through a little bit of trash.
But overall, I thought the debate, you could still learn some things. There was still some profit, even though...
Their folly was manifest.
Yeah, you could just kind of see that they can't really answer any questions.
When they were kind of pinpointed and tried to be tied down, they just wouldn't answer.
And so, I don't know, maybe they'll be around too. Maybe we'll get some more answers out of Adam. Who knows?
I definitely appreciate Owen for coming on the show. That was great. That was a big get.
Yeah, and I want to re-emphasize, I thought he did a great job as a moderator. It is not easy to do that.
And it is easy to act as the Monday morning quarterback and say, oh, he should have done this or that, but I do think he did an admirable job in that position.
Yeah, it would be great to bring him back on and just talk about his experiences in prison, because I would love to talk to him about that specifically, and talk about his thoughts on the prison industrial complex.
Well, just a closing thought here from the Bible in 1 Thessalonians 2 in regards to the Jews. It says in verse number 14,
For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which are in Judea, which in Judea are in Christ Jesus.
For ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they have of the Jews, who both killed the Lord Jesus and their own prophets,
and have persecuted us, and they please not God, and are contrary to all men, forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles, that they might be saved to fill up their sins always.
For the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost.
I mean, the Bible is scorching hot with that repudiation of the Jews right there, and I think we see why.
When you listen to that debate from this past Thursday night, you see why there is this much hatred here, anger, from the Scriptures when it comes to the Jews.
And you know what? Just to put a cap on this whole thing.
Tell us how you really feel.
Just to put a cap on this whole thing.
I trust the 54 translators of the King James Bible, some of the greatest scholars that have ever graced this earth, over Christ rejecting Adam King, when it comes to 2 Samuel 8-18.
Well, I agree, and you know, before we end, I want to thank our audience too. We had over 200 people in the stream, and we have some great comments here.
I wanted to read just a few of the comments. Someone said, LMAO weebz. I guess weeb is a term in reference to people that love Japanese culture.
I would almost say it's a dweeb.
Well, they definitely have anime girlfriends and stuff. It gets very weird.
I saw one that was sad, like he lost his AI girlfriend because they deprecated the code, or deprecated the software or something like that. So she died.
Does that mean it was deleted?
They literally went through the death. He's like a widow now. A widower or whatever.
He was grieving.
Justin Say Baptist said, as soon as Byron said he heard a voice in his head, I knew he wasn't saved.
Yeah, that's definitely true.
WRLATX said, facts. Old IAB needs to hear this stuff. That's definitely something I agree with.
Ernie1611, I like that 1611, medium rare steak, the real red heifer. Oh boy, that's a great comment. That's the red heifer that I get excited about.
Someone said they want lentil soup. What's wrong with lentil soup? Of course, lentils are like the worst of the beans, right?
No, I'm just kidding. My sister actually makes good lentil soup, which to me is kind of an oxymoron that you could use the word good and lentil soup in one phrase.
But she really somehow makes it taste good. So, you know, a lot of people definitely appreciated the podcast. A lot of people liked it.
So thanks so much for guys tuning in. Of course, Tuesday night, you don't want to miss 8 p.m.
We're going to have a special guest, Jornell Lugo. He's a professional fighter. He's a saved Baptist. Great soul winner. Great guy. Really excited to have him on the show.
Talk about some fighting. Talk about what's going on in the world. What do you think about our next coming show?
I'm ready to build an octagon in here and let's get Jornell an opponent and really spice this podcast up.
How do you fight him? And we should just have it modeled of what he can do, the skills that he has. What do you think?
But I just don't want him to take him soft, you know?
No, that's not what I had at all.
You can't take him or what?
No, he'd beat my ass.
Okay, well, I think it would be pretty fun to watch. I'm willing to sacrifice your life for the show.
Wow, thank you.
Alright, well, thanks so much guys for tuning in for our recap on The Red Heifer. Of course, you want to check us out at BaptistBias.com.
BaptistBias.com slash join. Get on the email list. Everyone's got a perspective, but you need to get The Baptist Bias.
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