🎵Music🎵
The solar eclipse happened
and we are still here
maybe because as it turns out
it was just an eclipse, folks
okay. But that won't stop YouTube
profits from grasping at straws
for anything to get views
and go viral
Perhaps next time they can count the number of cities that fall in the eclipse path and
that'll give us the final countdown to the rapture.
These guys are obviously smarter than Jesus Christ himself, who said,
But of that day and hour knoweth no man know not the angels of heaven, but my Father
only.
Yet, prophecy guy 745, who recorded a TikTok at his mother's kitchen, apparently has
it figured out.
Drifters may never run out of dates for the impending rapture, and a couple of examples
include these guys right here, Ronald Wineland.
He predicted that Jesus would return on the 29th of September, 2011.
And when that didn't happen, he moved the date to the 27th of May, 2012.
Then he went to prison for tax evasion.
Mark Blitz, going all the way back to 2008, predicted Jesus would return on the
September 28th, 2015 lunar eclipse to fulfill his blood moon prophecy, or perhaps it was
2025.
Look, at the end of the day, instead of relying on social media sorcerers to tell
us when we're finally in the end times, it would be more prudent to read your Bible.
That way you aren't suckered into the latest failed rapture prediction.
If there's another eclipse, look, don't cover your windows with tinfoil or hide in a closet,
and certainly avoid any free Kool-Aid.
And if they ask you why you don't want to go with them to the dark side of the
moon, just let them know, hey, I have the Baptist bias.
Hey everybody, thanks for joining us on The Baptist Bias.
We've got a great show for you tonight, and it may even be the rapture, Ben.
What do you think?
Could happen by the end of this broadcast, according to many preachers out there in the
prevailing view amongst Baptists.
You know, obviously there's a lot of crazy things going on today, but at the same time,
we don't want to necessarily get all of our opinions from TikTok, do we?
No, definitely not.
And the reality is, like you said, there's a plethora of opinion and conjecture when
it comes to this topic, and I think we might need to be extra careful, Pastor Shelley,
where we are getting our information from when it comes to Bible prophecy, because everyone
has an opinion on it.
Yeah, obviously there's a lot of views out there on end times, and they all seem to
be wrong.
Yeah.
How can we have a good opinion on end times?
I think we have to look at it through the lenses of scripture, maybe with a Baptist
bias.
What do you think about that?
You sound biased about that.
I do.
I am.
I have a King James bias, all right?
I'm open about it.
That's what you get on this podcast, honesty about our bias.
Well, we have a great guest coming on the show, a repeat guest that we've had from a
previous season, Brian Wilson from Red Pill TV.
He has a channel on band.video, and he's joining us today for an episode about the
end times.
Hey, Brian, how's it going?
Good.
How are you guys doing?
Doing great.
Great.
Thanks for coming on again.
We appreciate your time for what I think is going to be a lively discussion.
Yeah, I'm glad to be back.
I've been tuned in to the Baptist bias.
Y'all have had great guests, Eliza Schaefer, Kent Hovind, Pastor Anderson, and I'm looking
forward to the Red Heifer debate with Adam King.
It should be very interesting, and I really liked that Benelog too.
The most important thing is to read your Bible, and I don't remember any part of
end times prophecy talking about cities named after Nineveh being in the path of an eclipse,
but I had lots of people sent me that very same piece of information, like it would be
the missing puzzle piece or something.
Yeah, we have that clip.
We have that clip.
Maybe we'll play it later on, but there's definitely some rumors going around YouTube
and the internet concerning the solar eclipse and the idea that, well, the path of totality
is going through Nineveh, and maybe there's a special message there.
We can talk about it later.
Well, I've read Revelation.
When is Nineveh mentioned in the book of Revelation?
Never.
You have Sodom and Egypt.
You have Babylon.
You have these different areas mentioned for sure, the holy city, but-
Well, it's just so funny to me that people get all excited just because it has a Bible
name or something, but it's kind of funny to me, like who would want to name their
city Nineveh after reading the Bible?
Who was like, you know what?
We need a name for a city.
Nineveh sounds like a pretty good idea.
Yeah.
That's pretty funny.
Nineveh does give me hope a little bit that there's chance for a reprove or a reprieve
of our country because of their first repenting.
You don't want to be Nineveh the second time, but you might, it wouldn't be so bad
to be Nineveh the first time.
Sure.
The Bible says, and God saw their works that they turned from their evil way, and God
repented of the evil that he thought he would do unto them, and he did it not, so yeah, you're
right about that.
The King put sackcloth on his beast, so you know.
That is funny.
Maybe, maybe we just put some sackcloth on Michelle Obama and we'll be good, you know?
Then we'll finally.
Or Joe Biden will put sackcloth on his dogs that keep biting everyone.
Right.
That'll finally, that'll finally fix everything we have going on in our country.
Amen.
Well, I do want to play some clips, and to get started, I want to play a clip of
yours from one of your more recent episodes, one of your shows, kind of on this subject
matter.
I want to see if we can play clip one.
Let's go ahead and play it.
The city would be overthrown in 40 days if they didn't repent of their wicked ways.
This was a conditional prophecy, and it did not come into fruition because the people
of Nineveh truly did repent and saved their land from God's divine judgment.
Even the king repented, and by faith believed God and his prophet Jonah.
More than 120,000 people in his kingdom were saved by grace.
So the question for us today is, can we save America from our own divine judgment?
This country is a gift from God, and he can choose to allow it to be taken away if
we don't obey his laws and neglect the righteous path.
About two centuries later, Nineveh returned to its old evil ways, and the city was finally
destroyed, sacked and burned by the allied forces of the Persians, Medes, and Babylonians.
Its people taken captive in a strange land.
The area was sparsely populated thereafter, and slowly the ancient ruins became buried
in the earth.
How much time can we buy for these United States through repentance, before we are judged,
trampled under the feet of our enemies, and buried beneath the earth that we have
allowed to become so cursed?
How many more generations can we secure through genuine repentance, preaching to our fellow
countrymen the need to change our evil ways and seek forgiveness from our Creator, pray
for America, and be like Jonah, a prophet of repentance to those outside the church?
This is Brian Wilson with InfoWars.com.
Well, talk about hitting the nail on the head, and he's bringing up Nineveh, and
then bam, right there in your clip.
That's pretty funny.
You're just a prophet.
You were talking about Nineveh, and then now, all of a sudden, you know, the eclipse
is going through Nineveh?
I mean, what do you think about that?
Sometimes I do feel like Jonah.
I feel like I'm going to want to run away from going to preach.
I think that that's a common feeling among Christians, is feeling a little hesitant.
Like there was a pastor I was listening to talking about how he was asking for God,
please put someone in my path for me to witness to.
And then up the road on his walk, he saw someone, he goes, oh, not yet, not so soon.
And he tried to build up the courage to talk to this person as he got there, but
he said they looked, you know, like an angry, grumpy person.
And so he said on the next lap around, I'll talk to them.
He went past them and on the next lap around, they weren't there anymore.
So sometimes I can relate to Jonah, and I hope I can have the courage and faith that he had when
he finally went to Nineveh.
Yeah, I just hope I don't have to get swallowed by a whale before I decide to open up my mouth
and make known the mystery of the gospel.
Hopefully it doesn't go that far, that God doesn't have to put you through something
like that before you act, right?
It's kind of interesting how Nineveh seems to be, it kind of plays both sides of the
angle here.
You have the one version of the story where they get right with God and they're spared
and then the latter end where they're destroyed.
In the book of Nahum is what you're referring to there?
And I think that that's just reminiscent of every nation in every country that God is
kind of long suffering and constantly gives them opportunities to perpetuate their existence,
but it can eventually, time can run out.
And if the wrong generation comes to power and doesn't change their ways, then it could
just spell destruction and doom for a nation, a group of people, or a particular area.
Obviously we see that with the Babylonians, we see that with the Medo-Prussian Empire,
we see that with the Grecian Empire, we see that with the Roman Empire, and arguably we
are going to see that again with the Babylonian, the Mystery Babylon Empire, the final one,
which I think is probably America.
What do you think, Ben?
I would agree with that.
Yeah, I mean for a little while I thought that it might be Jerusalem, but I found that
position to be inconsistent with several different scriptures.
I won't get into it now, but there were some things that I felt like just did not
fit that picture.
I think when it comes to Mystery Babylon, you are 100% correct.
I would say that the United States seems to fit.
And Pastor Shelley, what do you think about this?
Of course, we would all agree that Rome at one point was the seat of Mystery Babylon
or was considered Mystery Babylon.
How about the United States as sort of a revived Roman Empire?
So there's that connection too, right?
Well, there's definitely Roman influence.
I mean, I kind of brought this up about how our money, it's interesting, it has Latin
characters on the dollar bill.
It's interesting why they pick Latin, because it's not like in the founding of America,
people were walking around speaking Latin.
They were of course speaking English, and so it's kind of eerie that they would
pick such a language and such artistry and everything else that kind of has symbolism
tied to the Roman Empire.
I'm kind of curious where you're at here, Brian.
What do you think about the idea of America being the end times Babylon?
Is that something you've thought about before?
Oh, yes, definitely.
And adding on to your comparison, I think the US and Rome, even the papacy have a lot
of similarities.
You're describing the use of Roman numerals.
There's also the Capitol building being a dome, similar to over in Rome.
And even in London, there's a church there that has a dome with a needle or a obelisk
nearby, just like in St. Peter's and at the US Capitol.
So I agree that there are Babylonian influences or images that the US has of ancient Rome
or even Holy Roman Empire.
But sometimes I feel like the US is more like an Egypt type, where, I mean, don't
get me wrong.
There's tons of comparisons between the US and Rome.
I mean, they're innumerable.
But there's also those Egyptian influences on architecture and things and on symbolism,
like on the dollar bill having the pyramid.
But there was an interesting study I was reading about ancient Egypt having a culture
of eating all these different kinds of meat, high sugar diets.
They had obesity problems.
And I was starting to think, this is very interesting.
These are very US type problems that they have.
And in end times prophecy, there's also described a king of the south and a king
of the north, the king of the north being the Babylonian king and the king of the south
being a Pharaoh Egyptian king.
So I feel like this question ties directly into the beasts of Revelation.
First beast and then a second beast.
And I mean, it depends like how far you want to go down this rabbit trail right now,
or do you want to talk about some other things?
Well, yeah, I don't mind where the conversation goes.
I think the Egypt connection is obviously true, too.
I think what's kind of interesting is how the mystery Babylon is referenced as being
kind of the seventh of a particular system.
And I believe those seven would be number one, starting with Egypt, then the Assyrian
kingdom, then the Babylonian, then the Medo-Persian, then the Grecian, and then the Roman as
the sixth.
And then the seventh would most likely be America.
Again, that could be wrong.
The end times escapes us and, you know, the Lord tarries for a long period of time.
America could be destroyed.
New nations, the geography of the world could be completely different.
But it seems like we're trying to be the end times Babylon, in my opinion.
And I would assume that whatever was Babylon would probably have a mixture of all of these
particular influences.
It wouldn't even just be limited to the Roman culture.
But I think it would be realistic to also see the Egyptian influence because it's that
same spirit, that same Babylonian spirit that has migrated its way throughout history
as a one-world government, one-world leader.
And I'm sure since the Bible says there's no new thing under the sun, that their
particular cultural influences and lifestyle is very similar to what we see and experience
today in a culture that's very morally declining.
We have so much wealth and prosperity.
And really, we see this as a common thread throughout the Bible that when a nation has
a lot of wealth, then there's an increase in adultery.
There's an increase in pagan worship.
There's an increase in just child sacrifice.
There's an increase in sodomy.
And really, we kind of see that with the land of Canaan as well, which isn't necessarily
in this lineage, but just it's kind of reminiscent of a lot of civilizations.
I mean, what do you think about the Egyptian influence in America?
Do you think that that parlays with being Mystery Babylon?
Do you think that that's what's your opinion, Ben?
Yeah, I would definitely agree that it is reminiscent of that Babylonian spirit.
Egypt always is symbolized in scripture as something negative as well.
And even worldliness, the children of Israel, when they're in the wilderness,
wanting to go back into Egypt is kind of a picture of Christians wanting to go back
into the world that they've been delivered from.
And so I think that the United States, obviously, this is a Captain Obvious moment
right here, definitely promotes that worldliness that I'm describing and sort
of the vain materialism.
You look at Black Friday and you have people trampling over each other to get
a half-price toaster and things like that, that sort of mentality exists in our
country, unfortunately.
And one other point that I wanted to bring up in the discussion here, you had
brought up Revelation 17, you referenced them verses 9 and 10, but in Revelation
chapter 18, the Bible says about Babylon, for all nations have drunk of the
wine of the wrath of her fornication and the kings of the earth have
committed fornication with her.
And the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her
delicacies.
And guys, I think that when it comes to the United States, it fits this bill
perfectly because what we're seeing described here is a nation that has global
influence.
And here's what I think of.
First of all, we have military bases all over the world.
But beyond that, it doesn't matter where you go on this planet, you'll see a
McDonald's, you'll see a KFC, you'll see an American brand.
What are you guys' thoughts on that?
Yeah, it's true.
Yeah, I totally agree.
And kind of zooming out, before we get into exactly who could be the beast of the
first beast, who could be the second beast, who could be Babylon, this is all
Satan's design.
So he's going to be using all the governments, all the powers that can be one
of the one power throughout history, I often add into listing off powers
throughout time is the English Anglo Empire, the sun never set on the British
Empire, they were all over the world, similar to how there's McDonald's all over
the world, there was English colonies.
And similar to that, there was cathedrals built all over wherever Rome went
through the Spanish or whoever it was.
So I feel like between Babylon and Egypt, Satan is going to set up a dialectic
between these two.
Babylon was a political power, but it was also a religious power.
Like in Daniel's time, you had to bow down and worship the Nebuchadnezzar statue,
whereas Egypt is similar in having a worshipful Pharaoh.
But in Egypt, you could worship whatever you wanted.
You could worship a frog, you could worship the sun, you could have all
these many gods.
The only time that it became contentious, there was pharaohs that worshiped the one
true God after the Hebrews left.
So you can argue that there was influence from the Hebrews there in Goshen that
maybe they influenced culture there to bring people to worship the one true God.
We know that Egyptians left with Moses, the mixed multitudes.
And so they were definitely basically evangelizing in a funny way back then
and bringing people into Christ's fold, into God's fold.
But as far as your question to U.S.'s role in all of this, it's similar to Mark of
the Beast questions.
Like without a doubt, Satan is going to use the power of the U.S.
to torture, to bring about destruction, kill, destroy.
And it's just that when we get into the details, we can argue all day and all night
about it.
And I've come a long way with my understanding of looking at prophecy.
I used to think that the dragon, oh, the red dragon, that must be China.
Well, that's Satan.
Okay, like a red dragon is not going to be China.
But still, there are some things that we surely can hang our hat on, like the
Daniel prophecy going through the vision of the dream, where it goes through Babylon,
Medo-Persia, Greece, Rome.
And then I would argue that the ending feet of that statue of Daniel, the clay
mixed with iron, would be the Holy Roman Empire.
And a lot of the performers...
What do you think about a modern day application of that?
Because it talks about how the clay mixed with iron is being mingled with the seat of men.
The first thing I think of is, that's why I was going to bring up the reformers, is
when they were studying this and what they were coming up with, you had all these
kingdoms of Rome, Western Rome, broken up into ten, and you had these families
constantly trying to intermarry with the other families to try and cleave together to
try and create unity in all these separate kingdoms.
But it never really quite worked out that way.
And so I think of that.
But when I think about the iron and clay of the feet of that statue in Daniel, and this is
all like everyone watching, you need to go read your Bible and see what you think about
these things. That's the only way you're really going to get a grasp on it.
Are these things salvation issues?
Is understanding what every symbol in Revelation and how it ties into Daniel, are these
going to ensure your salvation?
Of course not.
God is way more loving than that to judge you based on how you interpreted
Revelation.
But I think God is going to use people like us who have an interest in this to try
and shed light, to try and get people interested in reading the Bible, get people
interested in God and how these prophecies came to be.
Like Daniel's vision was fulfilled.
And we look back at that now and are just kind of like, oh, you know, it's it's
obviously this, this, that and that.
But it wasn't always so simple to see.
And even the I feel like I talked about this with you last time, but the I won't I won't
go into that if we mentioned it last time, but the reformers, a lot of them
definitely felt like the papacy because imagine in their time, like what you were
saying, the all the nations of the world drinking of the wine.
I mean, in from their view, that would have been the Holy Roman Empire.
That was this America like power that we see today.
But back then, this super powerful group all over Africa, Asia, Philippines, setting
up colonies, essentially, but setting up churches there.
And it's not all so that becomes a very contentious issue in itself.
Was every cathedral that colonial Spain set up an evil world empire?
No, some cases they're bringing the gospel to the world.
So God has a way of using even bad things happening to push forward the gospel going
to the world.
And we know that before the end times, that the gospel will have gone to the world.
But before I don't want to break, dive right into these, I have some quotes from
some of the reformers about their thoughts on the Antichrist power.
But I don't want to jump in yet.
Yeah, here's the thing.
Obviously, I think everyone kind of tries to superimpose their circumstances on
scripture, like there's a tendency.
So obviously, if I go back in time to, let's say, World War Two and we have
Hitler, a lot of people are kind of thinking Hitler's the Antichrist or a
lot of people are thinking that the end times is going to be shaping around World
War Two specifically.
And I could see how, you know, if we if we go back to, I don't know, the 15th,
16th, 17th century, somewhere in that timeline and someone's talking about the
wine, they could think of that as maybe in the communion of the Catholic Church.
Now they're all drinking that specific Eucharist.
And there's a lot of ways you could try to interpret these things.
But at the same time, I think that in hindsight, we can have sometimes
a better perspective.
I don't know that I always agree with end times from people of the past.
I think that because it was a lot harder for them to recognize, you know,
things that are going to change in the future.
Everybody kind of seems to think that the end times is in their generation.
And I get that we do the same thing.
But I think that, you know, as time goes on, it's more likely that we'll have a
better prediction or a better idea or understanding of the end times.
I think as we draw closer, it's just going to become that much more apparent
what these scriptures really mean.
You know, I've kind of wondered myself about the iron mixing of my clay.
And I've wondered, does this have something to do with that?
Many European countries and even America are being
really kind of, quote, invaded by a multitude of immigrants.
And these immigrants, when they come into these countries,
whether it be France, Germany, UK, even America,
they typically do not actually mix with the culture or the people there.
They're staying in their own separate camps, separate parts of the city,
taking them over.
And it's really weakened that particular nation.
It's that nation's partly strong and partly weak.
That could just be a coincidence or just to maybe a secondary idea
that's coming from the text.
But I almost wonder if that's partly what's
being fulfilled potentially in that description.
What do you think about this migration issued been?
Do you think that's a possible interpretation of the mingling there?
Yeah, I think that there are obviously several different
possible interpretations of that passage there in Daniel Chapter two,
specifically dealing with the ten toes of the statue
mixed with my clay, et cetera.
And that's definitely one of them.
You look at what's going on with, especially in Europe,
some of these migrants that are coming in that are not assimilating
the Islamic refugees, you'll get what's going on here
domestically in the United States with our open border policies,
leading to all kinds of all kinds of drugs and crime and criminals
who are coming into this country and not assimilating as well.
So I would not be surprised if that's what it's pointing to.
I think that Brian had an interesting theory as well.
A lot of this is up to conjecture because it's not a clear verse, right?
It's left up to interpretation and I think done so on purpose
so that, you know, we could speculate.
But I do think it's important to note this because you had brought up
that different people in different time periods had their own views
and their own applications of eschatology, and that's 100 percent accurate.
But I think specifically when we're talking about mystery Babylon,
I would say that if you were alive during the time of the Roman Empire,
it would be 100 percent accurate to claim Rome is Babylon.
And when people draw those connections between Revelation 17
and some of the verbiage there and the Catholic Church, that's great.
I agree with that.
I would just say that in 2024, it's not Rome
that is now the global superpower over this planet.
It's the United States of America.
Yeah, I think the landscape, at least from a political perspective,
it's undisputedly America.
You could even argue that America is a major influence,
even from a religious perspective, because we've sent out more missionaries
from our country than virtually any other country.
And we've influenced them now.
It may not be from a specific denomination, but you can see
from non-denominational churches, Catholic churches, from
Presbyterian, you could see from even Pentecostal,
all kinds of people being spread out and kind of a lot of people
looking to America for spiritual guidance and spiritual leadership.
The problem is they're looking at a lot of false prophets when they do so.
And I don't know that the false prophet is necessarily
going to come from America.
I know I talked to a Catholic recently and he told me that the pope
is going to be the false prophet and a Catholic said that. Yeah, he did.
And I was thinking, well, you know, I can't say that.
I disagree with that opinion. Like it's definitely plausible.
What is your kind of idea on the false prophet specifically, Brian?
Do you have any idea on what you think there?
Well, there was something I wanted to address before,
but remind me about that, so I'll probably forget, but go for it.
I see the U.S.
as historically becoming merged with the British Empire
around World War One and two with the League of Nations and then the U.N.
So I automatically now from learning this hidden history
of New World Order, U.N.
censored New World Order because there was a competing
world government system coming out of Germany, but they lost.
So now we have an Anglo American establishment.
So when I when I dabble with putting the U.S.
into prophecy fulfillment, I automatically merge them
with the British Empire Anglo American establishment that ties into Israel
and the five eyes, Australia, Canada.
I guess New Zealand is one of the five eyes.
It seems like they should just be lumped in with Australia.
But I know people from Australia and New Zealand wouldn't appreciate that.
But anyway, one thing for sure
is that no matter who is the Babylon, who is the new Babylon,
it's a mystery Babylon because it's a mystery because Satan is behind
the scenes pulling the strings, making all these things happen.
And he's the one power, principalities and powers in high places,
bringing all of them together around that table that we see in prophetic
and the prophetic future,
where they're all going to be sitting around this one table
and then eventually they're going to turn
on that first beast, on that Antichrist power.
And another thing we can rest our hat on, no matter who
the miry clay and iron is,
a rock is going to come and destroy all of these things.
Amen. So Satan can have his way with all these powers and principalities.
But it's going to be all for not just like Christ
dying on the cross and rising again.
He's going to come as a rock
and destroy all these things by crushing the toes of the giant statue.
And your question was about the false prophets.
Yes, there's any idea on that?
So many false prophets.
I think you have the Matthew text
about when they say he's out in the desert or he's up in the mountain.
Don't go to him. Christ already came.
When he comes again, he's going to be in the sky
where everyone can see him all at the same time.
He's not going to be hidden in a cave or in some desert somewhere.
So, I mean, this is something I run into a lot of.
If I don't agree with someone's take on something,
I'm not going to automatically call them a false prophet.
But there's the potential there.
I, in some ways, feel like this Pope Francis is a false prophet.
I personally just don't feel like he represents the vigor of Christ
when he becomes a political pope more than a Christ pope.
Even calling yourself the vigor of Christ, I feel like is problematic.
But then if you don't even try and act like Christ, that's pretty bad.
Now, other things that I would label as troublesome
without having to just call them straight up false prophets, speaking in tongues.
And as if this is a gift from the Holy Spirit to babble nonsense.
Speaking in tongues is a real thing where I've heard accounts of people
miraculously being able to speak to someone in another language
that they did not know when it was pertaining to them evangelizing.
So that's what I would see speaking as tongues as and babbling nonsense
in a fit of joy or rage.
I would label as a false prophecy.
I don't even know if it would classify as false prophecy.
It's just toddler talk.
It's just it's kind of gargly goop.
But obviously, I agree with you.
And you know, when we talk about false prophets, there's false prophets.
And then there's the false prophet, just like the Bible says there's devils.
And then there's the devil or how we're the sons of God.
Like how there's the son of God.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So I think that when it comes to the false prophet specifically,
the pope is a great guess as to who could potentially be someone like that.
Obviously, the Jesus said to call no man father upon the earth.
And Pope is kind of like saying papa.
And really, it's it's just a blasphemous term to use spiritual father in any sense.
Obviously, we have carnal fathers.
But to say someone's your spiritual father is blasphemous
because we only have one father, God, the father.
Obviously, the Catholics have a lot more problems than that, too.
But I kind of was speculating
in a sermon not that long ago about the false prophet.
And I think this is kind of an interesting idea.
I was wondering if it's possible
that the false prophet's not even necessarily religious,
like he's not necessarily a religious character at first.
But then he kind of takes on a religious persona with the Antichrist,
but more he's a character that has a megaphone.
And I kind of theorize and I don't think this is necessarily true,
but I kind of looked at the idea of something like the X app
and with someone like Elon Musk.
You know, if the pope goes out and says something tomorrow.
Yeah, a lot of people pay attention,
but honestly, there's certain people that have a lot more influence
than the pope.
And it seems like someone like an Elon Musk, where they have a lot of power.
They have a lot of influence.
They have a big following.
They have a pretty big megaphone with their own particular application
that if someone like that were to say, you know, I'm not that religious,
but now all of a sudden this is God, this is the Christ
and we all need to follow them.
And they're just kind of shouting that with their megaphone application
that I think that could fit scripture pretty well.
Also, you know, and again, I'm not trying to pick on Elon,
but you know, the Bible says that the false prophet
is going to be able to do miracles like calling fire down from heaven.
Well, it's pretty interesting that Elon is really interested
in having all these satellites set up
kind of like a hive all over the entire Earth.
And additionally, with Starlink, he's going to be able to broadcast
the Internet to pretty much every square inch of the planet,
which is another important prophecy, because the Bible talks about how
when the two witnesses are lying dead in Jerusalem,
that the whole world is going to be able to see their their
their dead bodies lying there.
And, you know, we see that day approaching fast in the sense
that with Internet, with smartphones and everything like that,
pretty much the whole world can be tuned in to a particular event
as long as there's Internet.
So if we literally did solve that problem
to where there's Internet everywhere,
there are satellites that can potentially,
you know, whether that's a supernatural thing or not,
call fire down from heaven.
And we have someone with a megaphone saying this guy is God.
I kind of wondered if maybe I'm wrong and it's not necessarily the pope.
It's it could be somebody that has political and technical influence.
What do you think about that?
What do you think about that? But when I kind of brought that up,
is that a possibility? I think it's a possibility.
I don't know about Elon himself, but I would say
maybe. What about his son? Yeah, I was going to say the X, A, E, 12 or whatever.
Excuse me, somebody that he's related to or one of his future progeny,
his son or his son's son, maybe
second or third generation could potentially fit the bill.
But when you talk about the false prophet
not starting out as a religious figure,
that also fits perfectly with scripture, because
if we look at the life of the Antichrist,
he does start out as a political figure.
He does not start out as an inherent religious figure.
It isn't until the midpoint of Daniel's 70th week
when he ends up getting hit with a deadly wound to the head
and then he's revived courtesy of the power of the devil.
You have the abomination of desolation.
I think that's when he actually reveals himself as a religious figure
and in particular, a false messiah figure
where he sets up that image and he
basically forces everyone to worship him as a false god.
Yeah, in Daniel chapter 11.
And again, it could be alluding to the future Antichrist.
It's saying in verse 38,
But in his estate shall he honor the God of forces and a God
whom his fathers knew not shall he honor with gold and silver
with precious stones and pleasant things.
So it almost alludes to the idea of this person
not necessarily following in any specific religious
historicity, but almost coming up with something new.
I don't know what are your thoughts about
Brian's reaction, a technical false prophet or or something like that?
Is that is that something you think is possible?
Yeah, I definitely feel like the use of the word prophecy,
I mean, prophet is going to include that religious part.
And like what Ben said, I do believe that the Antichrist
power is both a political and religious power.
I think we both I think we differ a little bit on the interpretation
of Daniel nine twenty five of that last week and how that lays out.
But one thing I wanted to bring up when you're
listing the things and distinguishing between them.
One thing I think is so important to distinguish between
is the end times versus the end of time.
So we have the end times being a longer period
than the end of time being
when God creates a new heaven and a new earth.
But back to Elon Musk.
It is worrisome that he wears this Halloween costume
with the upside down cross on the back and a little bit on the front.
It's a little worrisome that this man has deals
with the Defense Department and gets all this money
from government that I guess would have been going to NASA or whatever.
And there is the potential for
doing false miracle work by giving people sight,
giving them hearing or maybe other kinds of healing with brain chips.
So I think there's a huge potential in there.
For Musk to at least be a tool of Satan,
if not, if he's not going to be the Antichrist or whatever,
he could at least be a false prophet or a tool of Satan.
And the great thing about conversations like this
is that it makes me feel a lot of relief.
Like as long as the body of Christ is sort of looking in all these directions,
trying to identify something that's going to come after true believers,
then that puts us on a pretty good footing for the future.
So long as we have the ability to communicate like this.
Yeah. Hey, did you hear about this thing with Elon Musk?
Did you hear what the pope said?
Did you hear what this random ruler over here said?
So it gives me a lot of relief to know that we're all out here
trying to figure this out and be on good footing
before the end of time, before the end times, excuse me, begins.
And that would be the question that I wanted to throw to you guys.
Do you feel like we are in the end times?
And how soon do you think the end of time would be?
Well, I think that, you know, obviously there is a
distinguishment between some of the timelines that we're talking about.
I think sometimes people might loosely refer to the end times
as just being like we're towards the end of human history as we know it.
And I could see how people could say that.
And I could generally agree that it seems like we're nearing the end.
So maybe we're in end times in that sense.
But if we're going to talk about Daniel's 70th week or the idea
that there's going to be a final seven years before the millennial reign of Christ.
No, I do not believe that we've entered into that seven year period
or a the Book of Revelation brings up
seven seals that are going to be unleashed.
I don't believe that any of those seals have been opened today.
Of course, the Bible does bring up how after those seven seals,
there's going to be a thousand year reign of Christ.
He's going to rule and reign on the earth
and is going to be peace for a thousand years.
Then the devil is going to be let loose one more time
to gather the whole world together to the battle of Gog and Magog,
upon which God will destroy them with fire from heaven
and will enter in the great white throne judgment.
And then we'll have the new heavens and the new earth.
I don't even know that I would say
that the new heavens and the new earth is the end of time,
because, you know, I don't know that there's really any scripture
that say that time is going to completely end.
It's just going to be forever like time will just go.
We're in eternity in a sense.
So however that works, I of course, I could never wrap my mind
around something that's eternal.
But at the end, the end of time of this earth. Sure.
Yeah. And I agree with I agree with that.
So, you know, when it comes to the seven year period,
some people say we're already in the seventh year.
The fifth seal has been open or we're in the sixth seal or stuff like that.
We're we're Nineveh.
I mean, you know, have you heard these ideas of we're in these seals bin?
If I may interject real quick.
Oh, sorry, sorry. Go for it, Brian.
You go first and then I'll jump in after you go ahead.
Yeah, I was going to just throw out there that I don't necessarily
feel like these seven seals have been opened or anything like that.
But just to the audience, there's a discussion out there
in the Christian body, you might say, of what the last seven
days, day, years of this Daniel prophecy means.
And I don't put it into the future.
I I believe that that seven year period, the middle of that week
was Christ being crucified and making an end of sins through that.
So that's just something we don't have to have the debate of that right now.
But I'm just saying, as an audience member, go look into it, see what you think.
I lean on one side.
I don't necessarily am dogmatic about it, but that's what becomes the trouble
of these discussions is being too dogmatic on the seven seals, the seven trumpets.
We have the seven churches, seven seals.
Excuse me, seven churches, seven seals, seven trumpets,
then there's going to be this great controversy climax between Christ and Satan,
then the fall of Babylon, then the millennium and then the New Jerusalem.
And it's interesting that I believe it's the book of Nahum
that we were talking about earlier where Nineveh finally does fall due to its iniquity.
It's structured similarly to Revelation,
where the structure is like a chiasm,
where you have almost like equal parts on each side of this structure
as it goes through, not chronologically.
But I'm sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt.
No, you're good.
I want to I want to get your thoughts.
Do you kind of agree with how I labeled the end times there been?
Yeah, I mean, I'm on the same page with you.
I think that I do understand, Brian,
where you're coming from on that Daniel nine twenty seven interpretation.
And I have heard that position before.
But to answer the question regarding the are we in the end times?
That question, I would say no.
And there's certain things that I have to see first before making that
declaration.
First of all, I need to see a rebuilt temple in Jerusalem.
There isn't one right now.
I need to see daily sacrifices going on in that temple.
There aren't any right now.
And I also would say that
until the abomination of desolation occurs,
which Brian, I realize maybe we have some disagreement on this.
That's OK. Still like you.
All right. Everything's fine.
But my point is,
we're not liberals here, OK?
We don't demand ideological purity to come on our show.
But here's my point.
Yeah, we wouldn't let your McDonald's trash come on the show.
Even Pastor Shelley and I have different views on stuff.
He hates McDonald's like I kind of like it.
But anyway,
I have to see that abomination of desolation before I can
for sure definitively say that we are in the end times.
Well, I've talked with pre-tribbers and and they say, obviously,
they disagree with me on end times, you know, eschatology.
And I kind of I kind of asked one of my friends, I said, OK,
at what point will you agree with me and say it's post-trib?
And it's kind of like that abomination of desolation event.
Sure. If that if that happened, then you'd be like, OK, I guess you're right.
This was we weren't raptured out before that particular event.
Yeah, I mean, the Bible says or Jesus Christ himself said
in the Olivet Discourse, when you therefore shall see the abomination
of desolation spoken of by Daniel, the prophet stand in the holy place.
Whoso read it, let him understand.
So clearly that is a pivotal event.
And I do think that how could you believe that with the pre-trib?
Like, because according to according to them,
no Christian will see the abomination desolation
because they're all raptured out of here.
Well, if you hold to the pre tribulation rapture position,
your only option, I would think the Jews that randomly got saved,
the rapture or something.
It's either Jews or you could or you have to you have to claim that
Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke 21
has nothing to do with the rapture at all.
What is a predator's view? But that's not pretty true.
Yeah, well, then you would have to claim that it's either already
all completely been fulfilled or that it's only for the Jews
and not for Christians. Yeah, like that. OK.
Well, that's that's kind of funny.
I you know, what's interesting to me is thinking about Elon
like pull up that image because I think I sent it to you.
I don't want to like kick kick the dog anymore.
But, you know, obviously, when you're wearing clothes like this,
it kind of puts you thinking like, you know, what's going on?
What is the deal? What was the point?
A lot of people like you on look, I kind of like you on.
I like what he's done with Twitter in the sense
that it seems like he's brought a little bit more.
He says good things on the speech. Yeah.
And again, I you know, some bad things have still happened on Twitter.
And it's questionable if that's like Elon or if that's just minions
that work for him that are kind of subverting his policies.
I don't I don't know.
I'm kind of glad Twitter actually put me back on today.
So I have to give them a thumbs up.
You know, Pastor Shelley's account.
You're back at Pastor Steadfast was reinstated today.
So do we do we think it was Elon in his office personally?
Yeah, for sure. The button.
He's a fan of the Baptist Bias. OK.
He watches it for sure.
And so that's probably why.
But honestly, you know, the thing is about his son, though,
that's really creepy to me is his his biological mother.
Her name is like Grimes is like this artist name or something.
And she she has like a bunch of music videos.
There's one where she's like in like a garden
and she's got like a snake wrapped around her.
And then there's like another video
where she's like this bloody fallen angel or something like that.
And she's they specifically said they want to raise their son
without gender, which which is weird, of course.
But you know, when it talks about the Antichrist specifically,
he doesn't desire women.
And, you know, it's kind of like you wonder with all this transgender
binary, you know, non-binary parenting going out there.
Is that the perfect vehicle to raise an Antichrist type child?
Obviously, he's going to be given access to unlimited wealth
and power and everything because of daddy.
I mean, if you think about what Elon has, he could very well
hand it down to the next generation and they kind of inherit
a fortune of power, influence and ability to do things.
So, you know, I'm not saying that his son is the Antichrist
of the false prophet or anything like that.
But obviously, if I were to.
In my own science fiction novel, try to figure out
what would be the kind of the piece of the puzzle here.
It seems like his son could be someone that's fitting that mold.
What do you think about what I just said about him, his son?
Is that kind of perturbing or what do you think, Ben?
Obviously, it's perturbing.
It's weird. It's satanic.
I'm curious if Brian has a reaction to all that.
I mean, these are strange people.
They have doctrines of devils, you might say.
You know, I don't have much to say about Musk and Grimes.
I just find them really weird.
I was for a long time going to do a report about Grimes,
but it just didn't feel like it was that important.
I don't know how significant these people are in the course of
history going forward.
I think time will tell.
I definitely didn't think he was going to be running Twitter.
And that's been a huge deal.
And he's become very like
just on an ex-spaceship
into the political world because of the implications
of Twitter and uncensoring people.
And so we know that Satan's going to be using dialectics to control us.
So I guess the question I would ask or a statement
would be maybe he's
Musk is being used by Satan
to kind of gather Christians behind him, be like, yes, I'm
going to I'm going to give Baptist bias their Twitter back
and I'm going to be a right wing ally.
And so therefore, all the Christians can trust me type of thing.
While the left simultaneously, you know, there's hit pieces on Musk
all the time now, just like there was with Jones and Trump.
And so he's kind of become politicized ever since his Twitter involvement.
So I definitely think Satan's going to use all the pieces on the table.
You know, Satan's even infiltrating all the churches.
So, of course, he's going to use things in the secular world.
Well, and even if Elon's not necessarily a bad guy, like
he's evil to the core or something, he could still be used by the devil.
Obviously, Solomon was a great man of God, but was used by the devil
and a lot of ways towards the end of his life.
And I've seen Elon Musk on the Babylon B
and I've seen him talking about Christianity and things.
And he's definitely never been like blasphemous
that I can remember, like openly blasphemous or anything.
Obviously, he's been like kind of an atheist and stuff like that.
But I don't see him just, you know, saying G.D.
and like cursing God or Jesus.
Maybe there's clips out there that I'm ignorant of.
But, you know, I would hope that if given an encounter,
someone that has the gospel would would share that with them.
You know, I would I wouldn't back away from giving the gospel to Elon
or any of his kids or anything like that.
But at the same time, I think that we have to be careful
that there could be some Trojan horses out there.
And we don't really know, you know, what these people.
It's easier for the camel to go through the eye of the needle
than it is for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.
And so we know he's very, very, very, you know, he's autistic, though.
So maybe like that would help him because I feel like autistic people,
they care more about the truth.
It's a lot harder for them to lie and things like that.
He's autistic. Yeah, he is.
He's like slightly on the spectrum, I believe.
But, you know, another thing that's interesting about him, though,
is it's like he's not really rich for just being so awesome.
It's just like he's gotten all these government handouts,
like essentially a lot of the companies and the organizations that he's built.
It's just been with like a hand of the government
kind of allowing him to have that influence and have
that money. So obviously he is smart.
I'm not trying to take away from how smart he is, but at the same time, like
I don't think he's as much the self-made man
as he's kind of the bought and paid for man in a lot of ways, too.
So I definitely think that we should be as Christians watching.
And, you know, even though I have a strong bias, I have the Baptist bias.
I want to always make sure that my viewpoints can be challenged
with scripture and with the Bible and that I'm willing to, you know,
make sure that I'm
I could change because I've changed a lot of things in my life.
I've changed a lot of views. I used to be pre-Trib.
And then I ended up realizing, like, that's just not what the Bible teaches.
And so, you know, I've come to a position called post-Trib pre-wrath.
But, you know, at the same time, there's a lot of people out there
that just while we can't know everything,
there's still a lot of things we can know for sure.
And there's still a lot of people that are giving ear to
and listening to a lot of just junk.
You have a couple of clips.
I want to get to a couple more clips before we get a little bit deeper
in the conversation.
But you have a clip from clip five.
It's encounter today TV.
It's about the pre-Trib rapture.
Maybe it's a prediction, but I want to play a couple of these clips.
It's just a guy who's trying to give biblical evidence
from his perspective on why the rapture is pre-Trib.
It's very short. Yeah, let's just play clip five.
Because there are people saying that there's no verse
that speaks to the rapture of the church.
It's not in the Bible.
Well, no, you're not in the Bible
because I'm going to give you two verses right here
that prove the rapture is coming and you want to be ready.
Here it is. Revelation chapter three, verse 10.
Because you have kept the word of my patience,
I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation,
which shall come upon all the world and to try them
that dwell upon the earth.
Behold, I come quickly.
Hold fast, which thou hast that no man take your crown.
He's going to keep us not from the tribulation,
from the hour of the tribulation.
And then I want to speak to what you just said here
with first Thessalonians, which is such a blessing.
Chapter one in verse 10, where he commands us to wait
for his son from heaven.
Whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus,
which delivers us from the wrath to come.
Well, that's a pretty strong accusation
that someone has not pre-trib, just not in their Bible.
But of course, first Thessalonians, chapter number one
agrees with the post-trib pre-rath position.
So he's kind of straw manning his opposition there,
because obviously I agree that I'm not going to go through the wrath of God.
But the word wrath and tribulation aren't interchangeable.
We're experiencing tribulation today
when Christians are being persecuted for their faith.
There's tribulation all over the world.
Tribulation is simply just trouble or persecution
for the cause of Christ, which has happened from inception.
Abel was killed by his brother Cain. That was tribulation.
And additionally, we've seen tribulation
throughout all of the Old Testament and the New Testament.
To say that we're not going to go through
tribulation is really not understanding scripture at all.
To say that we're not going to go through wrath.
Well, that is biblical.
Of course, the Bible says that, you know, we're not appointed under wrath.
But the wrath of God is very clearly
unleashed in the seal seven in the Book of Revelation.
It says in his wrath is come, you know.
So and then we have seven vile judgments.
You brought up those sevens, which I thought was interesting.
The seven churches and then there's seven seals.
Then there's seven trumpets.
Well, there's also seven vile judgments.
If you if you kind of pay attention to that as well.
So, you know, to say that the preacher of rapture
is there in Revelation Chapter three, that was the only other verse
he brought up is it's such a stretch because he's talking to one church
out of seven, the Church of Philadelphia.
So I don't know if he's a dispensationalist or something,
probably going with we're in the Philadelphia in age or something, perhaps.
But to say that's a clear verse on a preacher of rapture is
is just it's not being intellectually honest with the text.
But I feel like this is the prevailing view.
I mean, do you find that most people you talk to, Brian or pre-trib or
what do you kind of run into?
No, most people that I talk to are believing
that we are going to go through a tribulation,
that we are going to be like, imagine the Israelites in
or I guess, you know, they were
just Hebrews or I guess they're Israelites in Egypt.
Did they leave before the plagues happened or were they there for the plagues?
So I feel like there's types in the Bible that show us
what things are going to be like in the future.
And so definitely and I also wanted to bring up.
Here's something that, you know, might just be fun to to look at,
because I've always assumed that this rapture moment
would be God taking the righteous away.
But when you look at which I pretty much believe,
you know, I'm just saying if you want a little something to chew on
and think about, let me find this real quick.
In the wheat and tares parable.
In verse 30, I'm sorry, I didn't write what chapter was, but
let both growth.
Yes, yes, yes, what let both grow together until the harvest.
And in the time of the harvest, I will say to the Reapers,
gather you together first the tares and bind them together in bundles
to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn.
So I just thought it was interesting that in that parable, first,
the tares are gathered.
So, you know, this left behind scenario
where it's just a normal day, there's no tribulations going on
and all the righteous disappear.
I think, first of all, you're going to be going through the tribulations.
There's going to be people put to death.
You know, it's going to we'll know when we're there.
There's not any much of an argument for being in the tribulation now,
at least, you know, not having the mark of the beast and all that.
But then I think it's an interesting point to study
in your Bible, those listening.
What if the people first taken were actually the tares and not the wheat?
I just think it's an interesting conversation
that usually just becomes assumed because of pop culture.
Left Behind series did a huge, huge number on everyone on that one.
But what do you think about that?
Yeah, this is definitely an interesting verse.
And this has always been my interpretation.
And I could I could totally change my mind, but I've always interpreted this
as, first of all, understanding the tares are reprobates.
They're they're basically the seed of the devil.
They're people that have given up their chance
to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ because they hate God so much.
And I think in the end times,
we see the obvious manifestation of this is by taking the mark of the beast.
The Bible says that the people who take the mark of the beast
are going to be thrown in the lake of fire, that they're they're doomed.
And so if you kind of understand a timeline from our perspective,
you know, I believe that the abomination desolation
happens in the middle part of a seven year period.
That's the it's at the fifth seal of the
seven seals that are in the Book of Revelation.
And what happens is the antichrist is killed, given received a deadly wound.
He comes back to life, declares himself God, and then demands
in Revelation Chapter 13 all the world to receive a mark in the right hand
or in their forehead.
And I believe those who are taking that mark could be seen as those bundles
being bound together and gathered together
as the minions of the antichrist in the antichrist kingdom receiving this mark.
And that happens for a short space until there is the rapture
where those who are alive and remain after going through a great tribulation
are caught up together with the Lord Jesus Christ in the clouds.
And so I think that what maybe it's possibly describing here
is that gathering of the reprobates with the mark of the beast
and then he's gathering the wheat through the rapture.
And after the rapture, he's going to then pour out his wrath on this earth.
And he's going to, of course, throw all of those people which receive the mark
into the lake of fire, which burned the fire brimstone.
What do you what do you think about that idea, Ben?
Have you heard you probably heard me say that before? I don't know.
Yeah, I've heard you teach it this way, another view.
I think that for me, it's possible that this could actually be
in reference to not that what you're saying is wrong or something like that.
I think there's likely multiple interpretations to this parable.
And one that I heard that I actually subscribe to myself is this idea
that what we're talking about here in Matthew 13 is the transition
from the millennial kingdom to the new heaven, a new earth.
And specifically, the reason why I would say that is because you have in
Matthew 13 in verse 38, it says the field is the world.
The good seed are the children of the kingdom.
But the tears are the children of the wicked one.
And the thing is, though, verse 39, I'm sorry, is what I really wanted to read.
The enemy that sowed them is the devil.
The harvest is the end of the world.
The thing is about that phrase end of the world.
You could argue that that is talking about the rapture.
But I also think there's evidence in scripture that the end
is actually talking about the end of the millennium
and the beginning of the new heaven, a new earth.
The Bible in First Corinthians 15 talks about this.
And it says, you know, then cometh the end
when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to the father.
And we see that in verse 43, the Bible says, then shall
the righteous shine forth as the son in the kingdom of their father,
who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
Well, the kingdom of their father seems to be pointing to the new heaven,
a new earth when the father actually comes down and dwells with mankind.
So for me, the primary interpretation is actually that transition
from the millennium to the new heaven, a new earth, which would explain
why the tears are bound first, because we know that at Gog and Magog,
they're all gathered around Jerusalem
and then a fire comes down from heaven and devours them.
Well, I don't know that I necessarily even see a difference
between what I'm saying and you're saying.
I'm saying that they the bundling process starts with the mark of the beast
and the end culmination is, of course, the millennial reign with you.
But it could be and I could see how maybe you would say the gatherings
maybe at the very beginning of the millennial reign.
He comes down and then he's like, hey, where are those servants
that said this man shall not reign over us?
And they gather them.
But like what the Brian's pointing out is it kind of almost
seems like there's a gathering before the rapture event.
So if that's true, if that's kind of what the text is alluding to,
then I think that my interpretation could possibly answer all of that,
like kind of explain that whole transition.
Absolutely. We're on the same page.
And the end of the world, is that talking about the actual moment
or just a general like lump of time that's kind of just the general end?
I don't know. Yeah.
What do you think, Brian, about those ideas?
Let's get Brian. I love that.
Like what you all just said,
I feel like shined a lot of light for me on on this parable.
It's just amazing how sure the word of God is that like these things
perfectly parallel things in other parts of the New Testament.
And then you also have the amazing parallels from Old Testament
to new like the snake on the stick
when they're being bit by the fiery serpents.
And if you look to it, then you won't die.
There's just so many amazing things like that that gives me
so much faith that this book was not just devised by humans.
I don't want to go off on a tangent about that, but I can't.
The most common thing I'll hear, I guess I will go on the tangent,
is people saying, oh, did you know that the Egyptian,
these stories in Egypt were actually that's where they got the Jesus story
from, as if Satan is not behind the scenes trying to create counterfeits,
not only for the Antichrist counterfeit that can do these.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah, well, I mean, here's the thing.
People that are saying that they didn't like
actually study the Bible thoroughly and read it cover to cover.
And they don't even believe it either.
So it's not like they really have a
high level of standard that they're holding themselves to a high level
of scrutiny. They're just like, oh, if you were if you were so learned
as I am, you would realize this happened in Egypt.
But it's like, where's your sources? What did you read?
You read the Bible and it's like they didn't even read anything.
They're just quoting some YouTube video from an atheist or something like that.
But we are going to be taking a few call in questions if we have any.
We we do have one already.
And I want to bring on Mike from Florida.
He's got a question for us about the first seal.
Hey, Mike, how's it going? Can you hear us?
Oh, I want to point out before we get my just went to you.
Yeah, just get it.
Oh, that that's appropriate with Brian on the line.
I don't know if you got that reference, Brian, but I want to say very
just quickly, Alex.
Yeah. When the caller wouldn't talk, that's like our favorite clip
in our in our in our studio.
We all we always say that all the time.
This conversation, I think, and other ones that we've had,
especially in private between you and I, Pastor Shelley,
it just highlights how true it is that iron sharpens iron.
Yeah. And that's really the point I wanted to make.
And, you know, again, we like bringing other people on the show
and getting all our ideas.
And the truth is going to win.
And I like that we have Collins.
We got a call in from Mike from Florida.
Hey, Mike, how's it going?
Hey, Pastor Shelley, how you guys doing today?
Doing great. Thanks for calling in.
Thanks for thanks for taking my call.
I just had a question about the seals,
and I've been thinking about things for a little while.
Does the first seal when it when it does it have to?
Does it have to start the three and a half year period?
And the only reason I'm asking that is because it says that
the first seal is a crown was given to him
and he went forth conquering and to conquer.
It doesn't specifically say that there's going to be war
or people being murdered then.
It does, though, however, like later on down in the other seals,
down after the I think a pale horse came with death.
And what I'm always thinking about is that the Internet has,
in my opinion, has to play a huge role in the end times
because it's so revolutionary.
And like the Internet has done a really good job of like
taking peace from the earth, which is like the second seal.
And I just look at it like is the conquering and to conquer.
Is that like the Internet and the Internet of things?
Like, could that be like that's the way it kind of conquers into conquer
and to kind of like move the battlefield to the whole earth?
And then after a certain tipping point, maybe that then it takes
peace from the earth and it convinces people to to kill one another.
Am I totally off base here?
Well, you know, I think that when it comes to
my view that there's like this last seven year period of time,
I think it does seem logical and seems consistent with scripture
that the first seal being opened would be kind of kicking off that timeline.
When it comes to the word conquer, I think it definitely
just the word itself alludes the idea of some kind of violence
or some some type of taking over.
Could that be, like you said, a different style of conquering?
I think. It could, but the reason why I would say it's not
is just because when you look at the other seals
and you look at what's going on on the earth,
you see the ramifications of worldwide war.
You see the bloodshed, you see, you know, famine.
And it seems like all these things very easily roll into one another
in the sense that when there is worldwide, you know, war,
then there is going to be a higher likelihood of certain parts of the earth
not getting food, the supply lines being cut short,
disruptions in the economy and everything that's going on.
So I think that it it really makes a lot of sense
that these things are going to unfold in a,
of course, a pattern.
But at the same time, like the Bible talks about death
being the fourth beast, the pale horse, death and hell follows with it.
You know, no one's going to die from just watching the Internet.
At least I hope not. It's like the rain or something like that.
But, you know, what is your take on this, Brian?
Yeah, I'd love to address this one.
I obviously don't ascribe to the fact that the 70 weeks
of Daniel need to necessarily be involved with this timeline.
And I don't think that the end times
have to be begun for the seals to begin being opened.
All we know is that there's only one capable of opening these seals,
and that's Christ.
And I wanted to bring up,
before I tell you what I think the white horse is,
I wanted to bring up what you said about the Internet.
The first Morse code signal sent,
which you could argue is like the predecessor
for telephone and Internet, was what hath God wrought?
And I can't remember what Old Testament book that's from,
but I think it's very interesting that that would be the first thing told
when, yes, we see all the evil in the world
perpetuated through the Internet.
Music, television, all the horrible culture,
and pornography, demonic influence.
But the Internet can also be used to spread the gospel.
It's almost like two things
are going to be heightened at once.
I can attest that I started watching different pastors on YouTube,
and that really was a huge, huge, almost just,
you can't take it away and have me be on this path to Christ without that.
So as long as there's going to be evil increasing with Internet
and also the gospel will quicken with the Internet, I think.
And I fall into the, it's not a uncommon thing.
I believe that the first horse, a white horse,
Christ was pure and white.
I believe that this represents Christ.
And he had a bow, he didn't have arrows,
and he had a crown.
We know that Christ is king.
And he went forth conquering and to conquer with his bow.
And a bow could also be sort of symbolic of a covenant,
like the rainbow after Noah's Ark.
And I think it's interesting that in Zechariah,
this is when I use Old Testament,
what are these horses, what are these horses all about?
In Zechariah, you also have horses that proceed from God.
The horses are coming from where God is.
In Zechariah 8, 9, 10 of Zechariah 1,
it talks about the horses, and in Zechariah 6.
So you could go look at that,
and there's different horses in there that are kind of similar.
You've got a red horse, and...
Sorry, but anyway, first horse, red horses, black horses.
And they're proceeding, these horses are coming
from where God is.
So I think the horses don't necessarily all have
to be nefarious, is my point with that.
But we also know that the angels hold back
the winds of strife.
So it doesn't necessarily mean that the horses,
any of them are good or bad.
I hope that gives you something to look into there, Mr. Florida.
I forgot where your name was, Mike.
Mike.
Mike, can any good thing come out of Florida?
No, I'm just kidding.
I moved here from Florida.
What was that supposed to mean?
Well, you know, one thing I've never heard of the idea
of the white horse being Christ.
One thing I would say that doesn't seem to fit to me
is just how in Revelation Chapter 4,
when John is being given this vision specifically,
it says in verse number one, come up hither
and I will show thee things which must be hereafter.
So in Revelation, chapter number four, we start
all of these prophecies.
And John is seeing things that are not going to happen yet
because he's told he's going to be seeing things
that are going to happen now, like in the present
and then things that are going to come after this.
So John is being told in Revelation 4
that the things he's going to see are going to happen afterwards.
And then in Revelation, Chapter 6 is where we pick up
with the seals specifically, and we see the white horse
and the one sitting on it.
So I think that it would kind of mess up the chronology
of Christ if we were to put Christ there,
because Christ has already come well before the book
Revelation was ever written.
Obviously, John is an apostle of the Lord Jesus Christ
and Jesus Christ is this is the revelation of Jesus Christ
and his glorified state.
That's what it says in Revelation, chapter number one.
So I do think that
there could be other interpretations of, you know,
Revelation that maybe I haven't thought of or I could
I could change my mind.
I've just I've never heard of it being Christ.
That would be kind of a pushback from my perspective of
maybe that that doesn't seem to necessarily fit this vision.
I do agree that horses are not necessarily a negative creature.
They're a positive and a negative creature because specifically,
Jesus Christ does definitely come back on a horse
in the end part of Revelation
when he conquers everybody at the Battle of Armageddon.
So there's there's no doubt that the horse can be a positive
and a negative creature.
I just have always seen Revelation chapter six
referring to specifically, you know, it's called
the four horse of the apocalypse is one of the ways
that people describe this as being the Antichrist.
Also, you mentioned you had the bow.
I think it's another indication of this being war.
What do you think, Ben?
Do you think this guy is is out for bloodshed?
Do you think there's any way that this could be interpreted
as like a peaceful takeover?
I would say that this is the Antichrist's rise
to the top of the New World Order power structure,
which then enables him to start the world wars that we see
and the famines that we see with seals two, three, four,
and then leading up to the martyrdom of seal number five.
And just to add to what you were saying, Revelation chapter 19
with regard to the Battle of Armageddon,
Jesus comes on a white horse, no question there.
And so if Revelation six and the first seal is describing
the Antichrist, well, that would fit because
the Antichrist would be counterfeiting Jesus Christ there.
Brian brought up, though, about the Internet
and how the Internet has played a huge role in his Christian life.
And another point that I wanted to make there is Jesus Christ.
He said that before the rapture has to happen,
that this gospel, the kingdom must be preached.
Basically, he says that it shall be preached in all the world
for a witness unto all nations and then shall the end come.
And I think that you could argue
maybe the Internet is the vehicle by which that occurs.
You have a reaction to that?
Yeah, no, I think that those are good thoughts.
I was kind of curious, Mike, what do you think about our answers here?
Yeah, obviously, it's open to a lot of open to it.
All you guys are really learned on this stuff be way beyond me.
So all this is it's fantastic.
The only reason why I thought the first thing that I thought
and I've been thinking about for a while is because
on in Revelation six four, it says
him that sat there on to take peace from the earth
and that they should kill one another.
And there was given unto him a great sword.
So it's like people are killing one another.
He kind of gives them the power to kill each other.
Or he gives like the influence.
It seems like that to me.
But then in Revelation chapter eight, it's almost like
and power was given to to them, meaning death and hell
to over the fourth part of the kill with the sword
and with hunger and with death.
So in my head, when I when I read it all the time,
I always think that is two separate like entities
killing the earth.
It's like the earth killing itself because of some sort of influence
in the earlier part of the chapter.
And then later on in the chapter, it seems like the actual conqueror
or the antichrist is the one actually killing with the sword.
But I think I might be leaning towards more what
Pastor Shelley says about.
Well, you know, I've reached a sermon on this chapter recently.
You could check it out on our rumble, the steadfast rumble.
There's a revelation for
I do think the the white horse,
it may not have any kind of bloodshed with that specific event.
Like Ben mentioned, it's kind of like someone becoming the king of America.
And it says he has a bow, which would make sense
because America fights a lot of wars from afar.
We have so much power with missiles, airstrikes.
We have just the ability to shoot from afar, as it were.
And you could say that maybe the white crown or the white horse
and the crown is just the idea of getting the power
to have control over this particular entity.
Then the second horse, the red horse is where the we see
the actual bloodshed and war begin.
And they could come very quickly, very subsequently
when it talks about them killing each other.
I just think that's in reference to war.
Obviously, people are just killing each other in war.
And when you have massive worldwide war,
you're going to have people dying from a lot of different things specifically.
You know, it says that they're going to be killed with the sword.
That's the direct warfare hunger that's due to the famine.
Death could be pestilence and plagues that are also brought.
And then beasts of the earth.
This is where I always think of Australia specifically.
And just because they have like 50 million kangaroos
and 28 million people.
But honestly, Australia has some of those deadly spiders, scorpions,
all kinds of snakes.
And in fact, you're not allowed to kill snakes over there
because it's like taboo or something like that.
But just imagine, I mean,
I guarantee Australia is bringing all kinds of food and imports.
If there's a worldwide war,
those ships might start to cease to come over.
There could be a lot of economic disturbance.
And now you have all these tick tock beach babes
wandering around in the city without any food.
And they're running into all kinds of scorpions, snakes, kangaroos
and whatever.
I mean, like you could see a lot of people
is literally dying from the beasts of the earth
because the beasts also are looking for food.
They could be very perturbed by things that are going on.
The Bible talks about how there's signs in the sky.
I heard a lot of people say that their dogs and animals freaked out
when there was the eclipse recently.
And I even know that my toddler was kind of kind of nervous about that.
But, you know, when there's earthquakes, animals get all scared and nervous.
And so, I mean, just with all kinds of crazy things going on,
there's going to be a lot of opportunity for people to die
in a multitude of ways.
And I think that's what we kind of see.
And it makes sense.
I mean, this is the this is the final works,
the final escalation of the fireworks.
This is the end part of the show where all the fireworks
are being shot off in one great event.
And so I think this is a short period of time where we're going to see
the most bloodshed, death, destruction
that we've ever seen before.
And it culminates even in the Great Tribulation.
And then, of course, the appearing of the Lord Jesus Christ, finally.
So, no, I really appreciate your question.
Do you have any last things you want to say there, Mike?
Before we let you go.
That's it, just thank you guys and God bless you.
Thank you. Keep keep Florida sane over there, OK?
You know, Pastor Shelley.
Oh, go ahead, Mike.
No, he's good. We dropped him.
Pastor Shelley, there's forces today.
The ruling class today has the power to take peace from from Earth.
We see it with the constant warfare that we have
that the United States engages in and the
regime change.
Well, look at how the supply lines got disturbed just through Covid.
I mean, that wasn't even worldwide war.
That was just Covid or whatever.
And we really haven't even recovered all of our supply lines since then.
If you want to ask another question, we can take Collins 231 Baptist.
You could call into the show.
You could put in a question into the chat.
Sometimes we'll look at some of the questions that you have in the chat.
We may ask one.
Did you want to cover the solar eclipse thing and people?
Yeah. Brian, did you did you get nervous whenever the eclipse happened
or you guys could see it over there in Austin, couldn't you?
Yeah, I was at Zilker Park sending a live feed back to the studio here,
and it was a pretty good crowd out there.
And it was, I would say, maybe five times more impressive
than I thought it would be of how dark it got.
And yes, these bats started flying around and I thought it was nighttime.
So, oh, yeah, because there's a bunch of bats that live in Austin
under the bridges and they just started flying out
because they thought it was nighttime and it was pretty, pretty powerful.
But I wasn't necessarily concerned.
Basically, that's what it's turning into.
Bunch of jokers running around here. Yeah.
Oh, man. But it was, you know,
I didn't think anything necessarily crazy was going to happen,
but I did suspect that a cult, you know, people
that are very into astrology and stuff were going to maybe do some ceremony
and secretly or, you know, who knows what the heck's going on?
Bohemian Grove was not to hang out where you want to hang out yesterday.
Forever. You're the one.
Yeah, you'll find out you're the one that's going to be sacrificed.
You're like, oh, God, let's see.
I think we have another clip or two from some of these weirdos.
Do we have the big Nick?
Tell us how you really feel. Go ahead.
Well, let's see the clip. Let's see what this guy has to say.
Yeah, big Nick on YouTube here. Clip two on April 8th, a once in a lifetime
solar eclipse is going to plunge certain parts of America
into total darkness during the middle of the day.
The news is even calling this an astronomical experience like no other.
The shocking part is this eclipse is going to be passing through eight towns
called Nineveh, which is the city recorded in the Bible,
where the prophet Jonah warned them about the wrath of God to come.
This will also be taking place under the constellation Cetus,
which means the whale.
As many of you know, the prophet Jonah was swallowed by a whale
before being spit onto the shore to go preach repentance to Nineveh.
Jesus says in Matthew 16 for a wicked and adulterous generation seeks after a sign
and no sign shall be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah.
And he left them and departed.
We learn in the very beginning of the Bible that God created
astronomical events in the sky to be signs to mark sacred times.
Genesis 114 says this and God said, Let there be lights
in the vault of the sky to separate the day from the night
and let them serve as signs to mark sacred times and days and years.
Can this guy get a little more pink?
I mean, not enough pink.
I don't think he has enough pink in his show.
I think there's another clip. Is that was that clip two or three?
I can't remember, but obviously the devil knows something that we don't.
I'm not saying that America is for sure mystery Babylon,
but there probably is a chance that it is considering that these people believe so.
In fact, America's history is shockingly founded off of Babylonian witchcraft
and Babylonian God worship.
Even monumental buildings engraved in this country's history,
like the Statue of Liberty, is actually a satanic altar
of the Babylonian goddess Ishtar.
Now back to the first question that the skeptics may have.
Why would something like an eclipse indicate that this is a sign from God?
Many people don't know this about the biblical history of Nineveh,
but something similar happened when Jonah preached judgment to them.
Ancient history also shows that right before Nineveh repented
in the Bible story of Jonah, there was a total solar eclipse
called the Bursa Gale eclipse, which was one of the astronomical
phenomenas that caused an entire pagan city to repent
from their pagan practices and turn back to the true God Yahweh.
This solar eclipse was also engraved in ancient Assyrian
archeological findings, further verifying that an astronomical
event took place during this time.
America has abandoned God and fully embraced perverse secular values.
And this eclipse very well may be a sign from the heavens
that the doors for repentance are closing.
This should be a wake up call to repent of your sins
and turn back to Jesus before it's too late.
I love America, and I'm very proud to be a citizen here.
But let's just face the facts.
It's not surprising that God is getting close to judging this country.
Things that were all viewed as sin 10 years ago are now being promoted as normal.
And this poisonous ideology that has destroyed the West
is being exported to nations around the world.
One of the reasons why the devil attacks America so much with embracing
sinful values is because he knows other countries view the United States
as the moral authority due to their financial success and freedoms
that other countries don't have.
This causes a negative psychological influence on other countries
that are originally traditional to start embracing progressive beliefs
since they look up to America as a country.
Wow. I don't disagree with some of the stuff there.
I mean, he's talking about Babylon and the United States
descending into an annoying cadence to his speech.
Moral decay. Right.
Obviously, there's that aspect of it.
I'm not sure I buy and find these carpet jockeys to, you know,
put on the screen for us.
I'm not sure what that means.
He's like your cousin from another mother.
I heard. Well, you could thank Pastor Mejia because Pastor Mejia
preached on this subject and he mentioned this guy.
And then I went and looked him up.
So I don't buy the solar eclipse.
Well, you know, it's kind of funny is like Pastor Anderson
brought this up on our show about the timing of the Passover debunking
Good Friday, how Christopher Columbus had actually tricked
the Native Americans by saying God was mad at them.
And he knew about a solar eclipse just because they had studied astronomy.
And so he basically told them about a solar eclipse that was going to happen.
And then they saw it and it kind of freaked them out or whatever.
But notice the Native Americans never really got right and got saved
and or anything like that.
So I don't I don't know what this guy is really trying to say.
It seems like he's just saying stuff,
but he's not really connecting any actual dots.
Of course, I agree. Right.
Some of the things he said, I think America probably is mystery Babylon.
But I don't know what was the point of these clips.
I feel like you had a point to them.
Just to point out that there's a theory out there online
that the solar eclipse was a message
by God that the United States is nearing judgment
and the fact that the totality went over these cities.
How about Joe Biden being our president?
Do we need a bigger sign than that?
I'm just I'm just like I said, I'm just trying to tell you what they're saying
is that it went over the the eclipse, went over these cities of Nineveh.
And so that points to the judgment of Nineveh that occurred in the Bible.
And therefore, the United States is nearing judgment as a result.
And that's what the eclipse is trying to communicate to us.
Well, again, he points out to some things in the Bible that are true.
Obviously, the Bible does talk about things being signs in the sky.
So I think I would never take away from the idea
that there couldn't be a sign in the sky.
But to say that it's this American city named Nineveh
and that somehow tying us to Nineveh,
I just think that that's like pseudo intellectual.
It is funny how one of his proof texts
is a wicked and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign.
That's kind of like ironic a little bit that is ironic.
But what do you think, Brian?
Oh, I think there is definitely truth and error mixed there.
It starts off kind of painting this picture of the path
and all the Nineveh and the whale constellation, and that's all very interesting.
I don't blame them for cashing in on the eclipse frenzy.
It definitely was all over the place.
And then towards the end of that second clip, it's like, yeah,
like what you're saying, like I don't necessarily disagree
with stuff he was mentioning
that we have a culture that has problems and we need to repent
and everything and that God will judge, you know, everybody,
including this country at some point.
But yeah, I just saw it as, you know, just salacious,
sexy prophecy and a non-biblical sexy prophecy
and trying to get clicks and stuff.
Yeah, that's I agree, because he's trying to like appeal
to everybody that likes pink.
What what is this?
Is he trying to be in the whale's belly or something?
I mean, what's going on with all this pink?
Although he said that it was going to be completely dark.
That wasn't even true.
Like it was it was kind of like twilight where I was at.
Was it really pitch black where you were in Austin
or was it kind of more twilight seeming?
Not pitch black.
It looks like when you're like, you know, a kid and you're late going home.
Yeah. After biking around the neighborhood all day
and you know, you get there like right before it's technically night.
We were near a school and all the kids were just screaming.
They were just like, but it seemed like it was happy screams.
And then a bunch of people were shooting fireworks.
Did you have fireworks where you were at?
Yeah, some fireworks went off.
Everyone did started screaming at Zilker Park.
I was like right on the other side of the Colorado River.
And so I could see all the office buildings and all the lights were on.
You could see straight into them.
And it lasted, you know, it felt like only like a minute that it was super dark.
But it was probably like four minutes.
But it was, you know, it was impressive.
It was, you know, I wouldn't really care if I missed it much.
But it was, you know, it's cool.
Well, I was nervous because there was a big dark cloud
that literally covered it maybe like two or three minutes before
it was supposed to happen.
And and I was like really like disappointed thinking like we were going to see it.
But it moved like maybe one minute before the whole thing happened.
So it's still got a me and my family got to see it, you know, right out there.
Did you get to see the the solar eclipse, man?
Yeah, I got to see it.
Did you see did you see like if you looked really close at it,
it said the Baptist bias right in the right. Yes.
So that was our that was our newest marketing scheme.
And clearly it worked.
So there you go.
You I didn't even know there was a city named Nineveh.
So, you know, news to me, I think that when it comes to this subject,
people try and draw connections
with anything because it's fun.
I kind of like that term.
It was funny there, Brian, the sexy prophecy.
But, you know, that's that's really what it is in the sense that
trying to grasp at anything possible to draw connections.
Ultimately, with no.
With with extra biblical things, like there's nothing in there
that says when the whale constellation is nine, then, you know, or, you know,
whatever whale constellation is nine.
Oh, man. Again, if you want to call in and ask this question, two, three,
one, Baptist, we're talking about the end times, all kinds of different things.
I want to get to one of the subjects you brought up,
you know, in your idea of like the synagogue of Satan.
But before we get there, I think we have one more clip
maybe that we could show in relation to the pre-trib
view versus the post-trib views from Robert Breaker.
I want to see if we can play just a little bit of this,
because this guy is actually pretty popular online.
He has a pretty big YouTube following.
I think he didn't he predict the coming of Christ
like multiple times already and like fail or something like that?
I'm unaware. I can't confirm or deny that.
I think I did.
You'd have to fact check that. Yeah.
Fact check that on me.
But I'm pretty sure this guy has already even predicted the return.
Are you? Brian, are you familiar with him?
No, no, I've never heard of him.
OK, he's the online church, so maybe this is the white horse.
All right, we'll we'll play it.
I do not see any types of a mid-trib rapture.
I just not see any types in the Bible of a post-trib rapture.
Matter of fact, if there was a post-trib rapture in the Bible,
I would be a very angry person.
I think I'd give God a piece of my mind when I got to heaven,
because why would he let me go through the tribulation
and then not get to enjoy the millennial kingdom in my natural body?
Why would I get changed into a glorified body
and not get to enjoy being married for a thousand years?
Why would that?
No, it doesn't make sense.
The only thing that makes sense is that Christ returns for his bride
and takes her out
while the earth enjoys their little kingdom under the Antichrist.
And then God pours his wrath out on them.
And then we come back with Jesus.
And in a thousand years, in the millennium, we enjoy the earth.
That makes sense.
It doesn't make sense that God would give his bride
to the Antichrist and let him have her first.
That makes no sense.
Well, I don't even isn't this guy pre-trib?
Yeah. How in the world if he gets raptured before all of that,
is that not the same concept as what he just described as on the post-trib?
He's like, well, I would then oh, I guess he's saying because he's going to die
in his opinion, if it's post-trib, he's going to somehow die
and not get raptured or something.
I don't know, zoomably.
But it's like he said, if he said he's not going to go through the millennial
reign in his natural body, but if it's pre-trib, he's not going to go through
the natural reign in his natural body either.
So I'm like, what's the point?
Yeah, I don't get his point either.
Plus, why would you be married for a thousand years?
Like, you're not going to live a thousand years, are you necessarily?
I don't I mean, obviously, the Bible does give allusion
to people living longer, longer than a thousand years.
But again, that guy already looks like he's on the on the back nine.
So I don't really know that he has a thousand years left in him.
Let's get Brian's reaction.
Yeah, I was just going to comment on that, like, I don't see how you would live
a thousand years in your unglorified body, I don't really understand that.
I feel like I have seen that guy before now that the video went up,
but I didn't know what his name was.
But Robert Bracke.
Yeah, I mean, Robert Bracke, right, right, right.
Oh, I'll go check him out.
But, you know, he's probably a good guy.
We probably agree on a lot of stuff.
That's the whole thing with some of the revelation, some of the end
time stuff is that it's not a salvation issue necessarily.
You know how these events unfold.
But I think it's good for us to study these things.
I was very interested in Revelation and Daniel
initially when I was coming to Christ, and that drew me in.
And then now I get to enjoy all the fruits of the gospel
and all the Old Testament.
But yeah, I mean, I don't I don't see
the rapture happening before the tribulation.
I hate to break it to people.
That would be nice.
But you got to break it to break it.
Yeah, you got to break it to break or break.
We're going to get broken, you know, we're going to go through some stuff
and it might just be wishful thinking
the whole pre-trib rapture.
But he says he's going to give his bride to the Antichrist.
But even if you're not pre-trib, I'm not pre-trib.
But I still believe in a rapture.
Not everyone's going to be destroyed or martyred by the Antichrist.
But haven't there been martyrs throughout all of history?
I mean, what is it?
What is he trying to really allude to?
Again, I think there's a lot of great people that are pre-trib.
There's, of course, saved Christians, people that are going to go to heaven
that are wrong on end times.
We're friends with pre-tribbers.
Yeah, I have a friend that's a great guy.
He preaches in my church as pre-trib.
But I do think that Robert Breaker has a lot of other issues.
So I don't know that he's
necessarily a great person to listen to on the Bible at all.
From my perspective, he's he's wrong on a lot.
That's just a specific clip where he's really wrong on the end times as well.
But again, end times eschatology is something
that we all are kind of looking through a glass darkly.
And so I you know, I like being able to have open discussion.
I think that it'd be great if we could if pre-tribbers
would be willing to come on the show and discuss our their viewpoint.
Let's hash it out.
I just don't think that they want that kind of confrontation.
I don't think they want their views to be scrutinized against our view,
because like the other guy said, there is no verse in the Bible.
He had to bring up a bunch of stuff that's not really well.
He had the clever line of if you don't believe in the rapture, the church,
then you're not in your Bible.
But but here's the thing about pre-tribbers specifically,
is they end up making everything in the Bible in the end times about the Jews.
I mean, that's pretty much their answer to everything.
Matthew 24 is about the Jews when we talk about these people
in the book of Revelation, only the Jews are going through this.
But the Bible does mention the Jews in Revelation.
What does it say about them then refers to them as the synagogue of Satan?
OK, but it doesn't seem like pre-tribbers ever bring that up.
And there's a reason why.
It's because they pedestalize the Jews in Israel today.
Well, wouldn't it be a little difficult to convince your congregation
that the Jews you've been talking about that are going to get saved
are called the synagogue of Satan?
Is that kind of strange?
Like, hey, the synagogue of Satan is going to get saved, folks.
Seems incompatible.
Pastor Shelley, how does that how does that really work?
Seems incompatible.
But we do know that Zionism
and the pre-trib rapture are very closely linked.
They're connected.
Yeah, people, you know, I do know people like my
my father has never believed in the pre-trib rapture, at least
while I've been alive.
Yet he's he's been a very pro Zionist Christian for a long time.
Obviously, I'm neither.
But, you know, I've never really been that Zionist.
But it seems like the pre-tribbers kind of have to be Zionist
in a sense to try and understand the scriptures here.
What is kind of your view here on Zionism and the synagogue of Satan?
Is that something you see a lot of people talking about?
I had a few comments to say on that one.
I guess for starters, in my view of end time scenarios,
I don't see the third temple as being a necessary thing.
I feel like the third temple is the body of Christ
and we are the stones of that body.
And going back to Jesus's life, he came to fulfill this prophecy for the Jews.
He came to find the lost sheep of Israel.
He wasn't yet gathering the gentiles.
He had to first fulfill his rejection by them
in order to then have the gospel go to the world.
So going back to something we were talking about earlier,
it would be an honor to be tortured by the Antichrist.
All the great martyrs of Christendom, it would be an honor to be in their club.
And then going back to the synagogue of Satan,
so in Jesus's time and during the time after,
a church of Christians was a synagogue.
That's where they met.
And so I don't necessarily think that the synagogue of Satan
has to be pre-Christianity, Jews worshipping.
Because as we all know, a lot of the first Christians
that Jesus was preaching to, gathering the lost sheep,
so many hundreds and thousands believed that he was the Messiah and followed him.
So in my opinion, the synagogue of Satan could be any number of religious houses.
And I, in my personal view, it's going to be a Christian house of worship.
We've just taken on for so long the idea of a cathedral
or of a church, and we say church or an Iglesia in Spanish.
The root word of that being what's the root word of Iglesia?
It's like, well, anyway.
So synagogue of Satan don't necessarily think
it has to be the third temple or anything like that.
What do you think about that?
Well, when it when it talks in Matthew 24 in verse 15, and he says,
when he therefore shall see the abomination desolation spoken of by Dan
of the prophet, stand in the holy place.
How are you interpreting that?
I'm just kind of curious, because like I interpret that
as him standing in the temple.
And but the temple has been destroyed and it hasn't been.
And it's interesting that Josephus wrote this Jewish Roman historian.
He was I guess he was both Roman and Jewish, but he observed the destruction.
You know, some of the end times prophecies.
I think it was in a way to sure the faith of Christians
at that time was Jesus's prophecies about the temple being destroyed.
And he said, when you see them circling about, then, you know,
it's time to go and to leave that city.
And the ones that stayed were massacred.
And it's interesting that and sieged to death, they starved
and ate each other. It was horrible.
And Josephus records that the Roman soldiers went and surrounded
the temple, surrounded Jerusalem, and then they left.
Very interesting.
And Jesus told them to watch for when they encamped or surrounded the city.
I'm excuse me, I don't remember the Bible verse,
but then that would be the sign of the time to leave.
And a lot of them did leave.
A lot of Christians did leave at that time
because they remembered his prophecy.
And then Titus came back, surrounded the city.
That was the final one.
When they burned the temple,
the gold adorning all the instruments
and everything ran down in between the rocks of the temple,
according to Josephus.
And the Roman soldiers literally took the stones apart
to get the gold that had run down in between the cracks.
Very interesting.
Not one stone left upon another.
And some people will argue, oh, that that hasn't been fulfilled
because of the foundation stones or certain blocks being there
that they're saying are part of the temple.
But I think it's a clear fulfillment of prophecy.
Jerusalem being destroyed in 70 A.D. or 71.
I agree 100% with that.
I do think that no stone has been left unturned.
Yeah, I, of course, agree with everything that you said as far as
the fulfillment of Titus fulfilling Jesus Christ's prophecy
of the temple being destroyed.
I believe that a lot of Matthew 24 is foreshadowing 70 A.D.
specifically.
But I also believe the Bible uses dual fulfillment
or even triple fulfillment in senses where there is a type
and a shadow of something that's going to happen in the kind of the near future.
And then it also has a end times significance as well.
It's very clear that the Antichrist has a kingdom
and that kingdom seems very clearly situated in Jerusalem.
The Bible talks about obviously in Daniel, the daily sacrifice
being taken away.
To me, it seems that the Bible is kind of indicating
that the Jews are going to go back to their blasphemous sacrifice
and that what causes that sacrifice to cease would be the Messiah,
which we believe the Messiah already came,
which is why we have the cease the ceasing of that sacrifice.
But with the Antichrist, if he's claiming to be the Messiah
and the Jews accept that, then they would cease their sacrifice system
and would worship this specific Antichrist.
There's a lot of pressure right now to build a temple.
Yes, there is a lot of pressure, they're getting everything ready.
So that all is going on.
They you know, the heifers to dedicate that area,
but they're building the candlesticks and have all these instruments
in preparation.
But isn't it interesting that the sacrificial system
never really started up again?
Like I never have heard of friends that go to
synagogue on Sabbath doing a sacrifice.
So it's interesting, like where where's the atonement?
That was what would atone for sin.
There's the yearly atonement as well.
Yeah. And it's very interesting that that hasn't ever been fulfilled.
But for this question that you asked about,
because obviously we differ about the Daniel 70 weeks
and without, you know, beating that horse to death,
as you said earlier about a different about Elon Musk or beat.
I remember you said beat the dog or something.
But I would like to maybe take this
take this time to point out some of the quotes from reformers.
So instead of looking at this conversation as, oh,
Pastor Shelley thinks this and Brian thinks this.
Everyone needs to be studying this for themselves.
Look at what all these different people say.
It's not like Pastor Shelley or me or Ben originated
some of our views of the Bible, because there's been conversations
going on for hundreds of years about what all this means.
And that's why I became super interested
in what Luther thought their Spurgeon John Wesley.
About who the man of sin was, where was this temple?
Seated in the Church of God, is that what it said?
Sorry, what was what was the Matthew verse that mentions the.
Matthew 24, 15 talks about him standing in the holy place,
and I also want to point out second Thessalonians Chapter two.
Let no man deceive you by any means, for that day shall not come,
except there come a falling away first and that man of sin be revealed,
the son of perdition who oppose it, then exalt of themselves
above all that is called God or that is worshiped so that he, as God,
sit it in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God,
indicating there's going to be a man of sin who sits in a temple,
a rebuilt temple.
Yeah, I think that that verse does point to that, but.
I'd love to use this as an exercise, too.
So just as an exercise, and you know, we tried Elon Musk, does he fit this?
Sure.
Try an exercise of putting the Pope in that place.
Here's Antichrist and his Ten Kingdoms by John Wesley.
He's in an emphatic sense the man of sin as he increases all measure of sin above measure,
and he is too properly styled the son of perdition as he has caused the death of
numberless multitudes.
You know, you can just study history of the Holy Roman Church for that,
both of his opposers and of his followers.
He exalteth himself above that all that is called God.
So during all that time, the pope had a monopoly on what was God,
what could be seen as holy.
He could declare you to be a heretic, claiming the highest power
and the highest honor, claiming the prerogatives which belong to God alone.
So he was going to interpret the scripture and give it to you,
and he is the vigor of Christ, and he is standing in the place of Christ.
So that's kind of how I, you know, I'm not dogmatic about it,
but how I would broaden the application of the Antichrist to an extra Jewish system.
I'm also perfectly willing to exercise that same thought process
with other candidates, but Wycliffe, Tyndale, Luther, Calvin,
Kramer in the 17th century, others, the translators of the King James Bible,
the men who published the West Minister and Baptist Confessions of Faith,
Sir Isaac Newton, Spurgeon, these men, among countless others,
all saw the office of the papacy as the Antichrist.
And that's from All Roads Lead to Rome.
So that for me, I'm not saying this to convince anyone,
all I'm saying is like, this has influenced my thought process
on all these events.
You can't look at this without studying history.
I think that it's definitely beneficial to just consider what views exist
and what views have existed throughout time.
You know, a lot of these men hold to positions
that I certainly disagree with today.
So just because they may hold a specific historical position,
I don't always necessarily say that that's right.
But I would say, you know, when we talk about
the Antichrist, there's a verse that I thought of.
In 1 John 2, verse 18, the Bible says this,
"'Little children, it is the last time.
"'And as you have heard that Antichrist shall come,
"'even now are there many Antichrists
"'whereby we know that it is the last time.'"
So the Bible says, of course, there is the Antichrist,
but then there's many Antichrists.
And I think that it's very accurate to say
that many popes have embodied that Antichrist spirit,
have exhibited attributes that are similar
and in character with the Antichrist.
But again, I don't believe that any of them
were the Antichrist, of course.
I don't think that that fits the Revelation model.
I believe the Antichrist is still coming.
That's what 2 Thessalonians chapter two was alluding to.
And again, I think that it's impossible
to have perfect hindsight when you're locked in time.
Obviously, these men are dealing with scripture
that they have right now
and the time that they're dealing with.
And it's easy to point to the Antichrist of their day
and say, maybe this is the guy.
But I think, obviously, from hindsight
and having, you know, time on our side,
we can recognize, okay, that guy embodied
a lot of what an Antichrist is,
but wasn't the Antichrist mentioned of
in 2 Thessalonians chapter two,
mentioned of as the shadowing type in Daniel, Matthew,
and alluded to in Revelation chapter 13,
which receives a deadly mark, just deadly wound,
comes back to life and declares himself God.
Where what would be the most blasphemous place
on the earth to stand and declare yourself God
would be a temple saying that it's the temple of God.
So I do think that that makes a lot of sense
that that is what the Bible is alluding to
in the end times.
What do you think about the former Antichrist popes, Ben?
Do you have any problem with that or that viewpoint?
No, he's an Antichrist.
And there are many Antichrists,
just like the scripture says.
I would say when it comes to the Antichrist,
I don't know.
I really, I shy away from
even thinking of candidates myself personally,
just because I really have no idea.
And I don't want to just say something
that's completely preposterous.
But a lot of people say he's gonna be Jewish.
I've kind of disagreed on that point.
I don't know if that's true or not.
I'm not sure about that.
But obviously we're gonna have a debate
on the red heifer in a few weeks.
Great segue.
April 18th, we're gonna have a debate.
Pastor Roger Menes and I are gonna debate
against Adam King and Byron Stinson
on specifically the red heifer.
And I believe that my opponents
in this specific debate discussion
believe that they're ushering in the Messiah.
That's why they're so excited about this red heifer.
And of course, myself and Pastor Menes
would say that they're trying to usher in
the Antichrist himself.
But we got a nice poster here
on is the red heifer biblical.
We're gonna be talking about red heifers.
Are they even mentioned in the Bible?
Talk about the daily sacrifice.
Talk about a possible third temple.
Talk about the Antichrist.
Talk about Jews and everything else
that's fun to talk about that's taboo.
It won't be on Rumble.
I'm sorry, it won't be on YouTube.
I'm sorry.
It will be on Rumble.
But that's just because I'm not allowed on YouTube.
But this is why, you know,
good information just isn't on YouTube anymore, right?
That's why you gotta go to InfoWars,
Band.video, Censored TV.
Red Pill TV.
You got Red Pill TV.
You gotta go to Rumble.
You gotta go find it in the dark web.
Hey, hell of a segue right there.
Hell of a segue.
I gotta get it to you.
You know, Ben Shapiro's not the only person
that can walk right into a promotional ad, so.
Right.
The only problem for me is I don't get paid
by any corporate sponsors, so.
You're getting spiritual bucks, all right?
Getting paid in spiritual bucks.
Yeah.
It's the only currencies that matter.
Yeah, it's interesting why Ben Shapiro
just hires a bunch of Catholics to work with him.
How does that work?
Seemed to cause friction lately, didn't it?
Well, I think that they're pretty friendly
towards each other.
I don't think that Candace is a-
You think Candace is a Catholic?
No, she's not a Catholic.
Oh, all right, nevermind.
I believe that she's married to a Catholic.
I see.
But I think that she's more Evangelical.
Do you know what Candace's religion is?
I'm pretty sure, like she,
I mean, actually, I'm not gonna speak on that.
I have no idea.
Yeah, I don't know why.
All I know is just trends of, you know,
usually, typically, people that I've known
that marry and are one is, you know,
one thing and one's Catholic, they'll become Catholic,
because it's more of a red line,
like hardline thing.
Well, it would be surprising.
It would be surprising for a lady to marry a Catholic
and not be Catholic,
because typically, I would think the wife
would kinda follow in their husband's religion,
no matter what religion,
even if you put apart Catholicism.
But again, there was a debate, I believe,
between her husband and Ali Beth Stuckey
on specifically, like the differences
between Protestantism and Catholicism.
And I believe like Ali Beth Stuckey
was representing like a Reformed Baptist position, maybe,
is kind of where she's at.
And then her husband was obviously
doing a Catholic position,
and she was kinda like just a moderator,
or just like part of the discussion.
I don't think that she was really even siding
with her husband, necessarily,
just saying that he's really smart,
but I don't know, I'm just interested.
I would be interested to know
what Candace's position really is
on specifically Christianity,
because I don't know.
I've seen some old videos
of her making fun of Christianity,
so I have no idea if she even believes
what she believes.
I would love to take the chance to,
oh, sorry, sorry.
I was just gonna say,
April 18th debate.
Make sure you tune in for that.
Go ahead, Brian.
I was just gonna say,
I would love to encourage your audience
to study Reformation writers.
Very interesting study.
There's always a way for different churches
to better themselves, right?
And it's like even today,
we can look at churches and criticize them.
And it's a very, very interesting study
to look at 15th century,
or 1500, 1600, 1700s.
All these reformers,
their criticisms of the most popular church,
and then as they criticize each other,
Martin Luther was a strong Catholic,
and he was probably a better Catholic
than most Catholics.
And then he went to Rome
and saw the hypocrisy,
just lavish living,
like some of the descriptions of him seeing these parties.
And he had a crisis of faith
because he realized he was a part of a corrupt institution.
And it's not a dig on the Catholic church.
I'm just saying all the churches are gonna be corrupt,
especially as we get closer to the end times.
All the churches are in need of reproving.
All the churches are in need of reforming.
And how they reformed the church back then
are what we're standing upon now,
as Baptists or Presbyterians or whatever you are.
Well, I don't mind if you dig at the Catholic church
because I abhor the Catholic church,
especially since in the 16th century
that the Council of Trent,
they basically made it clear
they don't believe in the gospel at all.
They said specifically that if you believe in faith alone,
that you're an anathema.
And they killed William Tyndale.
And they said in his sentencing,
First, he maintains that faith alone justifies.
Well, I believe that.
Praise God that William Tyndale was willing to die
on the hill of the gospel.
Secondly, I believe the second charge against him
was that he believed that all you had to do
is put your faith in the mercy offered in the gospel
and you'd be saved.
And again, Catholics were burning people at the stake
for believing such things.
Of course, William Tyndale was influential
in bringing the Bible into English,
allowing us to have the King James Bible we have today.
And I really appreciate a lot of these men.
I do think, of course,
because they were coming out of the Catholic church,
a lot of them probably still had some leaven
that they hadn't quite shaken off of.
And of course, politically,
it was very difficult to say things
against the Catholic church.
So I think a lot of times they maybe were a little soft
on their particular view.
So I do think there is some historical benefit
in reading some of these things
or just figuring out what these people believe.
But generally, I don't like Calvin or Wesley
or many of these people's position.
I think they're wrong on a lot of doctrine.
They have a lot of issues.
That's why I have the Baptist bias.
I'm not a Protestant, I'm a Baptist.
Well, one area where I feel like quotes can help
would be when you're trying to substantiate
a particular scripture that's under attack.
And what I mean by this is many,
and not to dive into the whole King James only issue,
but many would say that 1 John 5.7
doesn't belong in the Bible.
Many say the real ending of Mark 16
does not belong in the Bible.
And I do find it interesting
that you could find Irenaeus of Leon.
You can find some of these quotes of antiquity
that lend credence to the fact
that these scriptures were there,
they were being used,
and they were being preached from,
which helps to defend them
from those who want to discredit or invalidate them
in our King James Bible.
Honestly, I really have enjoyed this conversation.
Someone messaged in here,
how do we find your content, Brian?
Band.video.
And you've got a channel on there.
Uh-huh, scroll along, there's tons of channels.
We need to get the Baptist bias on Band.video.
I put you all's information to the guy
in charge of that last time,
and he kind of got back to me, kind of didn't,
but I think now I'll push him to make that happen,
because if you're getting censored out there,
then Band.video is the place for you.
It really is a great community of people watching stuff.
There's all kinds of different Christians on there.
I mean, that's why I love InfoWars.
It's a great platform for Christians
and for great patriots,
but it really has, I feel like God has raised it up
specifically and withstood all of the attacks,
started Band.video after YouTube,
because a lot of this information
would have been censored on YouTube.
So just like you're being censored on YouTube,
Christians need a good place they can go, Band.video.
RedPilledTV, I should have called it ChristPilledTV,
but I started it kind of in the beginning
of my Christian revitalization walk.
I like the name, I like the name.
Oh, I got stuck with the name.
It should be ChristPilled,
because that's basically all the reports are about.
Well, you know, it's funny,
I saw an Owen Schroyer clip on this specific point.
He was talking about how he feels like podcasts
like Fresh and Fit have maybe been like a psyop
to take over the word red,
because it kind of used to mean,
RedPilled kind of used to mean like you're aware
of the truth and you understand what's going on
in the political sphere, religious sphere,
and how a lot of people are trying to co-opt that term
into what's the manosphere,
or like being able to be a playa
and knowing how to manage all these women out there.
Yeah, I know what you mean.
It's kind of like become like,
well, I'm now a macho alpha male,
and I understand that women have these body counts
and I understand their value
and I know how to play the game.
And it's like, I guess their truth is only
in like carnal ways of like taking advantage of women.
And it's just like, that's not really being RedPilled
like from a more historical viewpoint.
I agree, like when you probably came out with your channel
and this term RedPilled is kind of the idea
of like why you know the truth,
because let's trace the origin.
The origin's coming from the matrix.
When he's offered the RedPilled or the BluePilled,
and the BluePilled is to just stay in the system
and be asleep at the wheel,
and the RedPilled is to wake up
and understand the truth
about the reality of the world you live in.
Well, we understand that Jesus Christ is the truth,
the way, and the life.
And he says, you should know the truth
and the truth shall make you free.
You know what doesn't make you free?
Getting in bondage to fornication and horrors
and all of what the RedPilled's trying to turn into,
that's not really the RedPilled, that's a fake pill.
And I thought it was great.
Owen's take on this was really good.
He handled himself well in that clip.
I think it was on Twitter.
Maybe I'll repost it on my Twitter.
But you know, that'd be great to be on Band.video.
We'll go on any platform
and we're just trying to bring our Baptist Bias with us.
We actually got a website recently,
baptistbias.com up and people can check it out.
It's a great way for people they don't know about us.
Because it's kind of hard.
Of course, the censorship machine
loves to just ban you everywhere
and then they pretend like you're nobody.
And you gotta appreciate pioneers like Alex
who gets banned from everything
and then basically kind of had to reinvent himself,
build his own platform.
And a lot of people are reaping the benefits
of someone like Alex going out there
and pioneering a way to have a platform
when no one else will give you one
and to kind of build your own system.
Albeit, it's on an infomercial read every five minutes.
But you know what?
Hey, he figured out a way to get there.
And at the same time,
I think that Christians need to keep innovating.
We shouldn't let censorship and being banned
stop us from being creative,
stop from putting stuff out there.
We can find a way to get people the information.
And even if we didn't have the internet,
look, the apostles didn't have the internet,
Christians haven't had the internet the whole time,
we can still talk to the individual.
And I think that's where this is important.
Don't just stay only online.
I know a lot of people love watching podcasts
and videos and everything like that, I like it too.
But open your Bible, read your Bible.
When you run into somebody, open your Bible with them,
share with them what the Bible has to say.
And you can have a lot of great interactions
with people in real life.
I remember one of my coworkers a long time ago,
he brought up 9-11 and I can't remember,
he was trying to explain to me how the gasoline
from the airplanes went down the shafts of the elevator
and weakened the beams and that's what caused them
to slowly collapse and I just said,
hey, just look up building seven.
I said, if you wanna know the truth about this issue,
just look up building seven.
And I didn't wanna talk, I didn't wanna argue
and I didn't wanna cause work to be awkward
so I just said, I don't really agree,
look up building seven.
Couple weeks later, he comes back to me,
he's like, you're totally right, it was an inside job.
And it was kinda cool to see someone actually
transform and so sometimes you just kinda have to put
that bait out there a little bit like,
hey, look up this verse or hey, check out this or whatever.
That was in the good old days when YouTube,
you could actually find cool stuff.
Now it's a little bit harder but.
Now you gotta go to rumble.
Maybe now it's like, hey, check out RedPillTV.
Yeah.
Check out this video.
You should have banned out TV.
Yeah, exactly.
And check out, or banned out video, excuse me.
I botched it, I apologize.
Banned out video.
Yeah, we gotta use the internet while we can
because if people are gonna in the future
be killed for not taking the mark,
I doubt they're gonna be online talking about the gospel.
Well, one thing I really like about Alex Jones too
is his rants.
I think those rants are fantastic.
I love the passion.
That's where you get it.
I have listened to hours and hours and hours
of Alex Jones and frankly speaking,
I probably have learned a little bit from him
on just demonstrating that passion
and anger really, righteous anger.
So I like Alex in that way.
He always seems on.
Like I've never really watched him
and he's like low energy.
Like I don't know how he can just be like high energy
for four hours straight,
but the guy's got some leather lungs.
You say that for sure.
Oh yeah.
He's been doing it a long time.
It's the 30 year anniversary coming up here
in the middle of the month of Info Wars.
How long he's been doing it.
Four hour show, six days a week, he's a pro.
And I think God's definitely using him to wake people up
and as long as he keeps Info Wars going,
hey, actually to your viewers,
or wait, you know what, before I do that,
is there any more like calls or comments?
I was kind of excited about the call.
Yeah, I think we had one more question.
Let me see if I can find the question
that someone had put in the chat.
It was specifically,
do you think that the tribulation
will be the greatest opportunity
to demonstrate faith in all history?
I think so.
And I think that it's exciting
to have that kind of an opportunity.
I think what's cool is because you read
about all these miracles like Daniel being delivered
from the lion's den.
You see Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego delivered
from the fiery furnace.
You see kind of these awesome events
where men take bold stands and they are delivered.
And I believe that since Daniel is a prophetic book,
that it's very likely that we could see Christians
doing the same thing as Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego
as Daniel, where they take bold stands,
they make known the mystery of the gospel,
they stand against the oppositions there,
and then they're even raptured, they're delivered,
they don't even actually get martyred.
Of course, I do believe there will be
a lot of faithful martyrs as well,
but I think it is an opportunity
to be in one of the greatest generations to ever live,
one of the greatest opportunities to ever live.
The Bible has long periods of time
where it's kind of silent on a particular issue,
but if we end up being in the book of Revelation,
that would be an honor.
What do you think, Ben?
Yeah, the more, oh, sorry.
Go ahead, Brian, go ahead.
No, the more people we tell about these prophecies
in Revelation, in the Bible,
then the more people will have that moment
if things start happening in their lifetime,
where they can go, oh my, I remember
that that guy told me that this was gonna happen,
and I heard that sermon that this was gonna happen.
So even though judgment would be upon us at that time,
you're right, it's gonna be a powerful time to witness,
and yeah, I'd be honored to go through a test
being thrown into a fiery furnace
where only the ropes burn, you know,
and I'm there with Christ protecting me.
The Apostle Paul wrote,
and many of the brethren in the Lord,
waxing confident by my bonds,
are much more bold to speak the word without fear.
And I think that when you see Christians
who are willing to stand up,
when the music is playing,
like Daniel chapter three describes
with Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego,
it gives you that boldness
that you can do the same thing.
And so yes, I would say the tribulation period for sure
is gonna be a time where Christians
can demonstrate their faith
in arguably the most powerful way,
being willing to preach the entire Bible,
believe the entire Bible, preach the word of God,
get people saved in the face of opposition,
in the face of an antichrist
who's gonna think to change times and laws
and make it illegal for us to do so, absolutely, yeah.
Well, you know, there's a book
called The Fox's Book of Martyrs,
and I'm not saying that this is authoritative
because we don't really know,
but if you read the first section of this book,
it's kind of interesting
because it's talking about the,
it's kind of in a chronology,
it's like in a timeline.
So it's trying to talk about
some of the first Christians apart from Christ,
that many of them,
when they were confronted by the political powers
who wanted to kill them for their beliefs,
many times the leaders felt so much pressure
to not martyr them or torture them or kill them
because of the people,
but then the Christians would actually say like,
no, you are gonna martyr me.
Like they didn't want to be given grace or be spared.
They were like, no, you are gonna martyr me.
And they would kind of bend over backwards
to try and give them a way out,
and they wouldn't take it.
It kind of makes me think of, you know, Braveheart.
I'm sure a lot of people have seen that scene,
but in the end part of Braveheart,
the guy's trying to offer him mercy.
He keeps like saying like, hey, just, you know,
we'll give you the mercy.
And he gives that last scream right at the end,
just freedom!
And it's just to illustrate like
he cares more about the principle than he does the pain.
And you know, that's an interesting level of boldness.
You know, I don't know,
I would say God willing,
I would have that kind of boldness.
You never know what it's gonna be like until you're there.
But at the end of the day,
that would be really to me,
the ultimate achievement as a Christian
is to die for Christ,
to be a partaker of Christ's sufferings
and to see it to the end.
I think obviously if you're an old man,
I mean, I don't know,
maybe that's easier to want to do at that point
because you kind of feel like you've lived your life.
I think it'd be a much harder sacrifice as a young man.
People that would be willing to die.
If you have children.
Yeah, like someone like an Isaac, you know,
who's being offered on the altar by his father
or Jephthah's daughter or, you know.
Well, we know that this has happened
and it's described in Hebrews chapter 11, verse 35.
And others were tortured,
not accepting deliverance
that they might obtain a better resurrection.
Yeah, so I mean, again, that is biblical.
Whether or not those stories
in Vaca's Book of Martyrs are perfectly accurate,
who knows, but it does seem like that is a concept
that's out there.
So I find it kind of interesting.
Somebody wants to play our clip,
I guess, I don't know,
should we play the Alex clip about the Collins or what?
I say, go for it.
Let's add a little comedy.
All right, let's see.
We got some Colin problems.
We talked a lot about a lot of serious,
serious topics tonight.
Yeah, this is a break.
If you have young children, you may plug their ears.
All right, go.
You're on the air, go ahead.
Yeah, the emergency.
Hello?
Yeah, just turn the radio off.
Just keep it in the building.
Sorry.
I'm gonna turn the radio off.
Yeah.
Is that okay?
Please.
No, no, good.
Hello, yeah.
Yeah, turn the radio off.
Go ahead.
Turn this off.
Good, yes, I love it.
Obama pisses me off.
I'm sorry, I love you, Frank.
Go ahead.
Yeah, yeah.
Can you hear me?
Yeah, of course I can hear you.
I just went to you.
John, we're going to break here.
When were you arrested?
Okay, I get.
Come again.
John, when were you arrested?
Come again.
It's like those guys are trolling him or something.
I know.
You're such a blind faith when you're like,
all right, we're gonna go to Collar John.
I know.
Well, I've called in to the show twice,
to the Alex Jones show.
And I'm telling you, man, it's a little nerve wracking
because I want to be on the ball.
First of all, I don't want to get screamed at.
But second, you want to be on the ball,
you want to make sure you contribute something.
And I remember the first time I called in,
he went on this epic rant about Obama
or something like that.
And then he's like, all right, let's go to Ben.
And I just felt like I wanted to meet him.
I wanted to rant with him right there.
And I did, and it was a lot of fun.
But yeah, I can see his frustration.
He does love when you scream.
If you just start off and say,
I want to hear your war cry, and he loves that.
But hey, here's two of his books.
If anyone out there is interested
in supporting the info war in Bandai video,
we have first, The Great Reset,
which was his first one.
And then the answer to their evil plan,
most likely devised by Satan behind the scenes.
You have The Great Awakening.
So aside from your Bible,
this might be a nice reset in the evening.
Great Reset.
And hey, maybe you could get yourself a signed copy.
Oh, nice.
You can see that.
There you go.
There you go, infowarsstore.com.
Have you read either of those books?
I have not yet, but I might have to now.
Look at that.
He touched this book.
Infowarsstore.com.
Alex Jones.
I've used Brain Force.
It's pretty good.
Brain Force Plus.
You might need a little more.
I need a pop one before every episode.
Yeah, especially when you're drinking Coke
and eating McDonald's.
Yeah, I need to make up for it somehow, right?
Turbo Force is way too strong.
It's crazy.
Well, my father-in-law loves
the Infowarsstore products as well.
He owns a bunch of them.
Oh, nice.
There's a lot of crossover obviously from that.
Pastor Steven Anderson got to go
on the Alex Jones show at one point
and promote some of his films.
I believe After the Tribulation was the film.
After the Tribulation.
And also Alex promoted New World Bible Versions.
Alex also promoted New World Bible Versions
for us back in the day.
Yeah, so that's pretty cool
that there was some crossover there.
And I think a lot of people found Pastor Anderson
from Infowars specifically,
and that helped them to find the truth
about the gospel, to get saved,
to be zealous about Christianity,
to get the King James Bible,
and to ultimately get the Baptist bias.
So, and that's where we're coming from.
We want people to get the Baptist bias,
and we're trying to go out there in an ugly world,
a dark world, and bring some of the light with us,
which is the scripture.
We talked about an interesting subject tonight,
the end times prophecy.
Of course, there's differing views out there.
The Bible shines through though as the truth.
We always want to trust the Bible
no matter what opinion that we have.
We always want to be willing to change our mind.
I thought this was a really cool discussion.
I really appreciate you coming on the show, Brian.
Do you have any last thoughts for us
before we kind of wrap up?
I really appreciate you guys having me,
and definitely King James Bible all the way.
The New World Order Bible Translations
is a great expose on where we get our Bible from
in those translations, and funny enough,
I found a really good Mormon breakdown
of the Bible translations online.
I don't remember what group it was,
but it was actually pretty solid information.
It synced up with stuff
in the New World Order Bible Translations,
but I highly recommend everyone watch that documentary
because when you are witnessing
to non-Christians especially,
that's gonna be a topic that comes up,
is how can you trust the Bible?
Why would I trust the Bible?
And then once someone gets over that hump,
and they say, okay, God's real.
I want to go on this path.
Then the question comes,
which is which Bible translation
is God capable of preserving his word?
And I think the answer is yes.
Amen.
Well, we actually made a documentary about that.
It's like 10 years after New World Order Bible Versions.
It's called The Preserved Bible.
You can actually watch it for free online too
if you just go to preservedbible.com.
You can check it out.
Brother Ben and I worked on this for a couple years,
and I was really pleased with the production value.
And it does give you a little bit of that
historicity coming from that Reformation time period
and what many of those men did in order to get us
the King James Bible specifically,
and why it's different than all the other Bibles.
We believe the King James Bible is the preserved Bible,
and that the other ones are really
just kind of cheap imitations, frauds,
and they've got a lot of problems with them.
What do you think about the Preserved Bible,
New World Order Bible Versions?
Which is your favorite?
Put me on the spot here.
I'm gonna say New World Order Bible Versions
has the edge, but I do think that
they're both excellent films for sure.
And they come at this issue
from different perspectives anyway.
I think New World Order Bible Versions
focuses more on the fact that the modern Bible versions
are the product of a globalist,
satanic conspiracy to corrupt God's word
and goes into great detail on how they differ
from the King James Version,
whereas the Preserved Bible
I think offers more of a scholarly take,
gives you the history timeline that you described,
and I think more so highlights
the doctrine of preservation
and how King James-onlyism actually aligns
with the doctrine of preservation
and the modern versions do not,
and goes into detail on how the King James
is based on a lineage that goes all the way back
to the original Greek and Hebrew,
and the received text versus the critical text as well
is a topic and subject matter
that's covered in a lot more detail in the Preserved Bible.
And if you liked NWO Bible Versions,
you will love the Preserved Bible,
including some, I should say,
it also includes some returning characters
like Joel Lamp, Pastor Anderson, of course.
So I think definitely if you like the subject, check it.
Well, the chat agrees with you.
They say New World Order Bible for the win.
Sorry, Pastor.
Hey, it's like my favorite documentary too.
I love it.
I just wanted to make another film on the subject.
And you know what?
Shout out to our add-ins.
Pastor Anderson said he liked Preserved Bible better.
Yeah, so there you go.
To each their own, right?
The grass is always greener on the other side.
But shout out to our audience.
Thanks for watching us live.
You put us on the front page.
We're, I think, in fifth place on the podcast
on the homepage of Rumble for you guys tuning in live.
Also, you want to tune in live next week.
We really have to plug this.
Make sure you're tuning in live
because we're going to be doing a live call-in show
with Pastor Steven Anderson.
It's going to be a Q&A show.
So you can email us questions at infoatbabdisbias.com
or you can put them in the chat or you can call in.
We're going to be prioritizing
the call-in questions the most.
But if you also want to put one in the chat
or even email us, we're going to have a huge list
of other questions that we're going to bring on.
But it's going to be a free-for-all.
Bring your questions.
These call-in shows can be a lot of fun.
But of course, we want to have a live and active audience.
So you're going to want to call in 231-Babdis.
You want to check us live 8 p.m. on Tuesday night.
Pastor Anderson's going to be taking calls.
We're going to be taking calls.
We want to get your questions.
I'm excited about next week's show too.
Next week's going to be a huge show
and we want audience participation.
So make sure you call in.
Be involved next Tuesday night,
8 p.m. Central Time Q&A with Pastor Steven Anderson.
Yeah, and I really appreciate.
Will you be answering some questions as well, Pastor Shelley?
Yeah, of course.
Yeah, we want to get you in on this.
Yeah, we're all on the show.
It's just, we're obviously having a guest too.
So if you want to ask our guest or us
any kind of question, we'll talk about anything.
We're not afraid to talk about any subject whatsoever.
And honestly, the show flew by really quickly.
I really enjoyed our previous discussion.
I enjoyed this one.
We'd love to have you come on again in the future.
I like your videos that you make there on Red Pill TV.
Brother Brian, and I appreciate you being willing to,
you're such a good sport
to have any kind of conversation
and talk about the Bible.
And I just love people that are zealous for the Bible.
Amen.
So thanks again so much for coming.
I love being on, man.
I really appreciate it.
And you know, Jesus is the way, truth, and the life.
And eat your bread and drink your water.
And if Jesus is your friend, then talk to him.
You don't not talk to your friends, right?
Right.
Love you guys.
Well, thanks so much for coming on the show.
That's gonna pretty much do it for us.
I want to make sure I get all the right plugs in.
If you want to join our email list,
we have a way if you go to BaptistBias.com slash join,
you can give us your email.
We send out emails about the show.
Also, we have upcoming show this Tuesday at 8 p.m.
Pastor Steven Anderson, it's gonna be a call-in show.
You want to check it out.
I also want to mention that we're gonna have
a really epic debate.
It's coming up on April 18th at 9 p.m.
So it's a little bit later, it's a Thursday,
and we're gonna have a two-on-two.
Pastor Roger Jimenez and myself
are gonna be debating Byron Stinson and Adam King.
Adam King was actually on a pretty,
pretty popular debate with,
Elijah Shaffer hosted a debate,
it was between Nick Fuentes and Vincent James
against Gavin McGinnis and Adam King,
and it got a lot of views on their rumble show.
So I'm pretty excited about this show.
I think Adam King lost his own.
Gavin walked out when Adam King proclaimed
that he would eliminate Catholicism before Islam.
He would rather get rid of Catholicism than Islam.
It was a pretty epic debate.
A lot of people checked it out.
I don't know what kind of anticipation
we're gonna have for the show,
but you know what, I'm bringing our A-game,
we're gonna bring what the Bible says on these subjects.
We're not gonna hide away from it.
So I hope that it's a lively discussion.
Brother Ben's gonna be moderating for us.
So we're gonna have a pretty epic debate,
pretty epic show.
You want to check out both of those for sure.
But we have some other great guests.
You want to keep tuning in.
Tuesday nights, 8 p.m., Baptist Bias.
We've got several more shows.
We have guests for the entire season.
The entire season we have a guest coming on,
and then we're gonna be going to our Daniel series,
which really fits in well with his end times
we've been talking about.
Pastor Anderson in 2018 preached a really great series
on the Book of Daniel,
and we've been working on editing that for him
to where it's gonna be kind of an enhanced sermon
style broadcast.
We're gonna be putting it here on this channel,
The Baptist Bias.
So while we're off season, every Tuesday night at 8 p.m.,
you're still gonna get a live stream
of the Daniel series each chapter once a week
for 12 weeks straight.
And then God willing, we'll probably roll back
into season four of The Baptist Bias.
So really, you've got it settled on the calendar,
Tuesday nights, 8 p.m., The Baptist Bias.
You need to share it, like it, post it, tweet it,
tattoo it, no, I'm just kidding, I don't get a tattoo.
Unless it's temporary, right?
Yes, temporary.
No, but of course, you can check me out
at BanPastor on Twitter or Pastor Steadfast.
They gave me back my new Twitter today,
and basically, I'm just gonna use both
until I figure out which one's the least ghost banded.
I think it's, yeah, I think it's at Pastor Steadfast,
and someone already has Pastor Shelley.
I don't know, some lady or something like that,
so I can't really.
Lady?
Yeah, isn't that, isn't that lame?
That's horrifying.
It's like, yeah, so.
But hopefully, you know, whatever one seems
to get me the most attention,
I'll probably just end up sticking with that one the most
and focusing on it.
But we'll also stream everything on X,
so you can check it out at BanPastor.
We have the show on there as well.
Am I forgetting, what other podcasts and things
can they find us on, Ben?
Just Google The Baptist Bias podcast,
and we're on a whole bunch of platforms,
so you can listen on the go.
Spotify.
And you don't have to see our faces.
Spotify, Apple Podcasts.
Ben has a face for radio, for sure, so.
Right.
You were born to be a broadcaster.
I take that as a compliment, so thank you for that.
Well, he's got a nose like a Jew,
but he's a Jew inwardly, folks.
It's Ben the Baptist,
and it's your host, Pastor Shelley, signing off.
Everyone's got a perspective out there, folks,
but you need to get The Baptist Bias.
We'll be right back.