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Did you get that pulled up, Pastor Shelley?
Did you want to talk about the origins
of the SBC
for a few moments
because
it has
a very strange birth
I think you could say
in the sense that they split from Northern Baptist churches
over a disagreement on slave owning
missionaries
they wanted
also the North wanted to be more loosely
associated rather than a
non-denomination like the SBC
eventually turned into
but what can you tell the audience
about
you preached a sermon about this a number of years ago
I believe, you can correct me if I'm wrong
but I believe it was your first year as a pastor
in 2018
where you preached a sermon about the Southern Baptist
Convention
I listened to it recently
and you went through and you talked about the origins
you talked about how they had a meeting
in, what was it, 1845
or something like that
1845 meeting
in order to form the organization
that we now know as the Southern Baptist
Convention, so if there's something you wanted
to share perhaps about the origins of this
group that might be useful before we get into
some of the doctrines
that could be a good place to start
and I'll just give a really high level
view
but essentially in America
in the 1600s when the colonies
are being formed
there was a Baptist nomination coming over here
some would attribute Roger Williams
as the first Baptist
and I preached whole sermons on the generations
and where Baptists came from
it even ties back further to a guy named John Smith
over in Europe
but essentially the Baptist churches
in America first coming out
there's only a handful, they kind of started forming
an alliance, forming a convention
forming a kind of coalition
and it eventually was
I don't know if I can remember the name
but you can look this up, it's something like the
Northern Baptist or something like that
essentially, but over time
there became a lot
more churches involved and you had both
the Northern states and the Southern states
kind of having the Civil War
having a lot of tension over issues
like slavery, well it got to
a point where the
Northern Baptist churches
were no longer willing
to support a missionary
that owned
slaves, they basically said that person's
not qualified to be a missionary
that we're going to give money to
to go out and preach the gospel because
they find it morally reprehensible
that anyone would own
slaves and especially
then be the representation for
a
missionary and so
essentially the Northern churches said
we no longer will pay for
slave owning missionaries
now the Southern Baptist
churches then said this is an attack on the gospel
for some reason and so they broke
off from the Northern
Baptist and they
formed the Southern Baptist Convention
1845
and it literally in their
charter and in their documentation they literally
are saying we
are doing this because
our slave owning missionaries
are not getting funded
in order to be a missionary
which is the thing, to be a
missionary all you have to do is have a King James
Bible on your hand, you don't need to get paid
number one and number two
who isn't against slavery
but obviously at that point in time
and in history a lot of
Southerners believed in
slavery, they twisted the
Bible to their own convenience so the
origin of the Southern Baptist Convention is literally
coming from
slave
foundation, that's the whole reason
it even exists
and it's kind of bizarre
that that's not even brought up
nobody's educating anybody on this
but of course you don't really want to necessarily
if you're in the SBC point that out because that's
going to not win over anybody
realizing that you started
based on the premise of slavery
being so important to you
that you literally have to divide and break fellowship
with other churches so that
you can pay for these missionaries that have
slaves but
as you go through the
history they have different doctrinal statements
and
they had a couple in the
1900s
and they didn't do it very often, they had like a
1963 version I believe
I think there's like an older one then there's like a
1960s, 63
and then there's the 2000 version
which is the most up to date, most
recent doctrinal statement that they have
but if you look at this
if you pull this up and you can go to the
SBC website, you can look at their
doctrinal statements
in the 2000
Baptist Faith and Message
it says in the salvation
section, it kind of has a
few different paragraphs about salvation
specifically but when it's talking about
regeneration it brings up
repentance and specifically
then it defines repentance
it says, and this is
A, so this is
of salvation, they're talking about letter
A, regeneration just talking about
the new birth, how you get
saved, being born again
it says that repentance and faith
are inseparable experiences of grace
and then it defines for you what repentance is
it says repentance is a genuine
turning from sin toward
God, so in their
doctrinal statement, right off
the bat, it literally says
repentance is a genuine
turning from sin
toward God
now turning from sin
is very clearly
not sinning
that would be no more lying, no more
stealing, no more
adultery, no more fornication
but you know, the Bible lists
a lot of things as sin, not
just fornication, adultery, murder
it says the thought of foolishness
is sin, the Bible says
that if you look upon
the opposite gender, a woman
with lust, you're committing adultery with her
in your heart, the Bible
makes it abundantly clear that just any
kind of lying is a sin
I mean, the Bible says just hating
someone for the wrong reason
would be a sin, so
if we were honest with ourselves, we probably
sin multiple times every single day
even the best of us
this is a preposterous idea
to say that anyone
has genuinely turned from sin
it doesn't say like
want to turn from sin, it doesn't say
being willing to turn from sin, it doesn't say
you know, hope so, maybe it says
a genuine turning from sin
I would love to know what prideful
arrogant person can literally
say I've completely turned from sin
I no longer sin
and it's completely genuine, I mean
this appeals to the prideful
to the arrogant
to those that are honestly just
lying hypocrites because
no one has genuinely turned from sin
and James chapter 2 verse 10
says if someone were to keep the whole
law, yet offended
one point, he is
guilty of all, so
according to the Bible, it doesn't take a lot
of sin to get into heaven, it doesn't take
a lifestyle of sin to get into, I'm sorry
let me word that out, it doesn't take
a lot of sin to go to hell
it doesn't take a life
a life full of sin
to go to hell, it takes one sin
and anybody that is trusting
anything other than the finished
work of Jesus Christ is death
burial and resurrection, if they think
that they're genuine turning from sin or
they're turning from sin or adding repentance
to their gospel gets them into heaven, they're not
even saved, they don't even know
what the gospel is, because
the repentance necessary for salvation
is not a turning from sin
it's a turning from trusting in
yourself to be saved
I would say this, it's a repenting
of repenting of your sin as necessary
for the gospel, rejecting
that and believing it's faith
the Bible makes it abundantly
clear, serves what must I do to be saved
believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved
John 3.16, whosoever believeth
the Bible says in John
3.15, whosoever believeth
the Bible says in John 3.36
that when you believe you have
everlasting life, hath, it's present
tense, the Bible says over and over
that it's faith, it's by grace
it's not of works, as any man should boast
Romans 3.28 says therefore
we conclude that a man is justified by faith
without the deeds of the law
meaning that no deed
no genuine turning from
repenting of sin, genuine
turning from sin, has anything
to do with salvation
why is it that all of these
Baptists got together and literally put that
in their doctrinal statement, it tells me
that there's some tears amongst the wheat
and I do want to say this before
we get a little bit too deep in this
and I've gone on a little bit of a monologue here
but I do not
believe that every Southern Baptist
is like an unsaved
heretic, devil
I believe that there's a lot
of saved people that go to a
Southern Baptist church, in fact
it's probably one of the top
denominations you're going to find people
that are even saved
a lot of people genuinely love
the Lord and not all
Southern Baptist churches are the same
since you have 50,000, some are
crazy extreme liberal and others
are very conservative and more traditional
and so obviously
we're going to be painting with a little bit of a broad brush
here this evening but
I would not associate myself
or be in a convention that has a
doctrinal statement where we're talking about the most
important doctrine, salvation, literally teaches
a false gospel, teaches a works-based
salvation, Galatians
makes this abundantly clear that we're not
allowed to tolerate any kind of
perversion of the gospel no matter how
minute it may seem on the surface and
this is not a minute difference
Ben, what do you think about this
genuine turning away from sin for
salvation? I think it's
damnable heresy, I think it's works
salvation, I think that
it is anti-biblical
and so this is the reason
why we're doing a podcast like this is to
warn people, I love
those who would go to this church, I don't
love those who are the false
prophets but the people who
are being deceived, I
want them to be exposed
to the truth and
understand exactly what they're walking into
with regard to the
SBC. You mentioned a lot
there, you kind of unloaded the truck here to start
the podcast off and I appreciate that you did
that though. I want to go back and
forth a little more often. It's okay,
no I mean there's a lot there, I want to
address repentance
but I also, you said something about
slavery that I needed to respond to. In
Exodus 21 verse 16 the Bible
says the man
that wander, I'm sorry, Exodus
I'm in Proverbs, good night, my apologies
let me go to Exodus. You know someone put this
in the comments and it's pretty funny and I
didn't think about this. A really
famous Southern Baptist is Jack
Hyles. Jack Hyles was
an ordained Southern Baptist
preacher and then left
the Southern Baptist and became an independent
Baptist. Others like J. Frank Norris
in the Dallas-Fort Worth area and
both Hyles and
J. Frank Norris were in the Dallas-Fort Worth area.
Hyles eventually went to Hammond,
Indiana but they were
former Southern Baptists and they left the
convention because they realized it was rotten.
They realized there was problems. I think
J. Frank Norris might have even been just kicked out
so I don't know about how exactly
that unfolded. But I am
illustrating that it's not like everyone
and there's bad. In fact a lot of great people have been
there. Our goal is just to expose
that it's so rotten that the
good people need to get out. They
need to withdraw themselves from this false
doctrine and the false teaching
and stay true to
Baptist doctrine because it's unchanging
and
slavery was always wrong.
It's not like some people
say the Bible used to teach slavery was
good. No, the Bible never taught that
slavery was good. Ben is going to read us a really
good verse here. Why don't you give us
Exodus 21 16
It says, And he that stealeth the man
and selleth him, or if it be
found at his hand, he shall
surely be put to death.
Clearly this condemns
the type of slavery
that the United States was guilty
of, that America was guilty of in the past, and that
a lot of people would twist the
Bible to say
that the Bible endorses this when it actually
does not. We have a very clear verse showing
that those who would steal another individual
to sell them, that that person would
be worthy of the death penalty.
And we can talk a little bit more about that when we get
into the Holman Christian Standard Bible, because
of course, it's not just the doctrines
that are wrong,
but also
when it comes to the SBC, they
use a false Bible version. They use
a very bad mistranslation
of
the Bible that actually is based
on corrupt manuscripts. And we
can get into that a little bit later on. I don't want to get
ahead of myself. I also want to
point out, because we brought up what their
doctrinal statement says, and
it talks about repentance there. It calls
it a genuine turning from sin,
repenting of all your sin to be saved.
This is a heresy that isn't
exclusive to the SBC. You see a lot of
churches that parrot this talking point, including
some independent fundamental Baptist
churches. It's not like they're
all right either. Some of
those are ran by heretics.
Some of those are ran by false prophets.
Jonah chapter 3,
it says in verse 10, And God saw their
works, that they turned from their evil way. And God
repented of the evil that he had said that he would do
unto them, and he did it not.
So we have two doctrines that you
can get out of this verse, two conclusions you
could draw from this verse. First of all,
it said that God saw their works that
they turned from their evil way.
So if the Southern Baptist Convention is
saying that you have to repent of your sins
or turn from your sins in order to go to
heaven, well, that is defined, according
to Jonah chapter 3, verse 10, as
works. So that would be a work
salvation. In addition, we
see that God repented here in
this verse, meaning that
the word repentance is neutral.
So the point I'm trying to make is
it's defined by its
context. Obviously, when God
is repenting, he's not repenting of sin
because he has no sin.
And a really good way to prove
this, that it's a neutral
word, is in
Jeremiah
18. I believe it's in verse
number 10.
It says, and if it do evil in
my sight that it obey not my voice,
then I will repent of the
good wherewith I said I would
benefit them. So
on salvation, yes,
repentance is necessary, but what repentance
are we talking about? People think that the word
repent automatically means to
repent of sins or to repent of something
evil. But here we have God
repenting of the good.
You can repent of good things as
well. You can repent of soul winning.
You can repent of going to church. You can
repent of reading your Bible. Is that repentance
necessary to go to heaven? Obviously
not. What are we talking about
when it comes to repentance in the
context of salvation? Well, I believe
that you've got Matthew chapter
21 verse 32 that gives us
an example. And it says, For John
came unto you in the way of righteousness, and
he believed him not. But the publicans
and the harlots believed him. And ye,
when he had seen it, repented not
afterwards that ye might believe
him. Regarding salvation,
in the context of going to heaven, repentance
is simply turning from unbelief
to belief, turning from whatever
you're trusting now to get you to heaven,
to trusting only in the Lord Jesus Christ, which
is why the Bible says the time is fulfilled
and the kingdom of God is at hand. Repent
ye and believe the gospel.
Turn from whatever it is that you're trusting
now and instead believe
on the Lord Jesus Christ. In Acts chapter
20 verse 21, testifying both to the
Jews and also to the Greeks, repentance
toward God and faith toward our Lord Jesus
Christ. So I think I've made the point. We have God
repenting, which proves
that the word repent does not
always mean repent of sins or else God would be a
sinner. We have the
Ninevites in Jonah chapter 3 verse 10
turning from their evil way. It says
God saw their works. So turning from
your sin would actually be a works-based
salvation if that's what was required for you to
get to heaven. And then we also see how that
word is actually used in the New Testament
in terms of getting
saved. It's turning from unbelief to belief
and Pastor Shelley
it's unfortunate, but
a lot of people use this phrase
repent of your sins, including the Southern
Baptist Convention, including
their individual churches. And we
see it on the doctrinal
statement there. And
it's like they didn't they on one
out of one side of their mouth. They say salvation is a free
gift. All you have to do is believe.
But then they say you have to
repent of your sins. It's this weird cognitive
dissonance. Yeah, it's just
really it's similar to just someone that
doesn't know what they're talking about. They
repeat talking points without
actually slowing down and actually
understanding the words that are coming out of their mouth
desiring to be teachers understanding
neither what they say
nor where they affirm.
That's what the Bible brings up about false teachers
is that they'll say a lot of things
that they actually have no idea
what it really means. And
I have to believe that a majority
or a large swath
of these preachers that
are saying both they say salvation
is a free gift and you've got to genuinely
turn away from your sins. They're not saved.
They don't even know what they're talking about.
It is possible that
someone could use the wrong phrase terminology
and kind of have redefined
it in their mind or other people kind
of trick them about what they're
meaning. And I've heard people
say repent of your sins and then you kind of tie
them down and they they kind of wiggle out
of some kind of a damnable heresy.
But the Southern Baptist Convention here
on their doctoral statement isn't
being vague. I almost feel
like they're making it overly clear
a genuine turning away
from sin. I mean that's not like an
accidental phrase that you just
you kind of mean something else. I mean
there's I don't know see how you could ever
turn that into salvation by faith.
Like that is just so clear
not salvation by faith
that I don't see how any
honest person
could read that and say
yep they believe salvation by faith
alone of grace alone
no works. I mean that is about
as hardcore as you get. I mean other than
just saying like it takes full blown works
to get saved. I mean I just don't know what
they could say for you to
literally say they're teaching
false doctrine here. Especially when you
look at that through the lenses of Jonah 3 10
I mean is that not works. This is such
damnable heresy. Now we
have so much to cover.
I think we you know definitely
want to cover some other things but this is the most
important point folks. If
there's any reason to leave a
church or a convention it has to be
on the salvation issue. I mean there's
no other issue that's more
important. I know we already have
a couple callers on the line and I want to
get to you guys
in just a second and hopefully
our callers if they've had any experience
with SBCE maybe they can share
some of their experience with us
but
we also brought up the Bible
translation issue and I think
that I think this is an important
point too because
obviously if you're tampering with the Bible
it's going to be easy
to also then tamper with salvation
and one of the verses you brought up in your binologue
Matthew 7 14
which you know the King James Bible says
straight is the gate and narrows the way which leadeth on the life
and few there be that find it
and when the Bible says
straight it's
a little bit different spelling
than being a homo
we're not talking about that kind of straight
we're talking about something being
narrow
S-T-R-A-I-T
which is a synonym
for narrow so the Bible is just saying it
saying the same thing twice
to give you a really clear picture of what it's talking
about. Essentially it would be narrow
is the way narrow is the way straight is the way
it's just kind of saying that it's a
small sliver
of the way that you actually get to heaven
and that makes perfect sense if the only
way to get to heaven is Jesus Christ
I mean he said I am the way
the truth the life no man
cometh unto the father but by me
that sounds pretty straight I mean in the sense
that there's only one way that's pretty narrow
when you have one option
I mean could it get any narrower than that
if it's getting
narrower then there's no way to heaven
so it's saying there is a way
and it's as narrow as it could possibly be
in the sense that there's only one option
it's either faith in Christ or nothing
it's not faith plus baptism
that's not going to get you there it's not faith
plus your church
attendance and it's certainly not faith
plus genuinely turning away from all of your sin
that's a completely different path
that will not lead you to heaven
will lead you straight to hell just like the
atheist Muslim and Hindu
and so
in the Holman Christian Standard Bible though
which is a version that's sponsored
by the Southern Baptist Convention
they kind of own
a Christian publishing company
LifeWay I believe is what it is
and they have a lot of publications
they didn't like some of the modern versions so they made
their own the Holman Christian Standard
Bible and in Matthew 7
14 you had read
it for us but it said difficult
how narrow
is the gate and difficult
the road that leads to life
and few find it now there's a huge difference
between a road being really narrow
and it being really difficult
and in fact if you look at the
John MacArthur study Bible
he has a New King James study Bible in this
verse it says the same thing in the New King James
as a difficult he literally teaches
that salvation is difficult now
here's the thing how difficult
is it for you to one time
put your faith in Jesus Christ by calling upon
the name of the Lord I have to say that
it has to be one of the most easy things you could ever do
and of course if God loves us
why would he want the road to
heaven to be so difficult
you know the only difficulty in regards to salvation
was what Jesus had to do for us but you know what he did
the hard part so that we
could do the easy part simply trusting
in him and him carrying us
all the way through his bloody
cross what blasphemy
to say that what Jesus did
is basically
muted by our own
self effort and works of
going through this difficult road of
repentance in order to get to heaven
that is works based salvation and anyone
who believes that is not saved
they need to get
the gospel preached to them
and hopefully from a King James Bible
so they don't have the gospel corrupted
for them I mean
I see a pattern here corrupt Bible
corrupt gospel
but a lot of people don't even realize this
they're not even on the King James Bible
this isn't just a Holman Christian Standard Bible issue
this is in every modern Bible
version isn't it Ben
yeah the Holman Christian Standard Bible actually
sounds a lot like all the other ones
it sounds like the NIV the NLT
even the New King James you brought up
uses the same verbiage in Matthew 7
14 the John MacArthur
footnote makes it even worse
but to me there's two lessons
you could take from Matthew 7
14 Jesus is the only way
but also that few the quantity
not the quality but the quantity
of people who are going to be saved
in the grand scheme of things
right there aren't going to be that many
people who get saved because many
are trusting in their own works when you have an
entire denomination like the SBC
pushing a repent of your sins gospel
gospel then that
further proves the point but it's
about the quantity Matthew 7 14
not the quality of the works
involved by the individuals who are going
down the narrow path
to salvation it has nothing to do with that
the hard part was accomplished by
the Lord Jesus Christ at Calvary
but you also have 1 Corinthians
1 18
which turns salvation
into a process
it says in their HCSB
corruption
for the message of the cross is foolishness
to those who are perishing but it is
God's power to us
who are being saved
now the last time I checked
it's believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and
thou shalt be saved the last time I checked
it's done you know in Titus chapter
number 3 not by works of
righteousness which we have done but according
to his mercy he saved us
with a D at the end that's the last
time you know when I read through some of those
salvific passages in the King James
Bible that's what I read last time I
looked through it it's because
that's what the Bible teaches you're saved with a
D at the end for by grace are you
saved with a D at
the end this is not a process
it's not a lifestyle it's not something that
takes a long time it occurs in the twinkling
of an eye the second that you decide
to place all your faith and trust and
rely and depend on the Lord Jesus
Christ you are saved
you have eternal life you have the Holy Ghost
sealed inside you
and the Holman Christian Standard
Bible takes this essential doctrine
of the faith one of the
foundations of the faith
and corrupts it
what a shame
well and the King James in the
verse you read it doesn't say being saved
it says are saved so
it's a completely different understanding
thank you for bringing that up
and you know
it's just
some people say oh these modern versions
they don't change any important doctrine
but we've just brought up
literally verses that are used to
twist the gospel and to pervert
the gospel mentioning that it's a process
I've heard preachers preach being saved
is a part of salvation
that it's a process so this isn't
just a straw man argument I
have heard preachers get up and preach these
things and you know when
you have a denomination
that has a Christian bookstore literally
life way is like they're kind
of associated with the Southern Baptist Convention
they're producing all these materials
you know they don't hold back on
what versions they use even though they might say
hey you know we prefer
they'll still sell you an NIV though
they'll still sell you an ESV they'll still sell you
all these modern versions and in fact
what's really interesting growing
up I've seen kind of an
evolution in these because when you used to go
to life way it only had Christian material
but at some point and I don't know
the exact timeline here you'd
have to look it up but eventually
you know what they also started selling
Catholic paraphernalia
and so literally now they've
kind of divided their stores a lot of these Christian
stores like Mardel and Life Way
and one side is like the Catholic section
another side is like the Christian section they literally
have idols I mean they have
the graven images and they have the crucifixes
and they have all this stuff in there
that you can buy and I'm thinking
like how is this
part of the Gospels like
selling idols to Catholics who
aren't even saved I'm just thinking like
how far are you going
to go I mean at what point
do you say this is not even
Christianity anymore this is not even
the Gospel but obviously the love
of money is the root of all evil
and so it's important
that people realize that
the devil often does not necessarily
just go from A to Z
it goes to A B C D
so you see this progression you see
this slow deterioration
you know corruption takes
you know time the devil
is not going to necessarily throw the frog
in a pot of boiling water he's going to slowly
turn up the heat and
with the Southern Baptist Convention
I've seen through the even
in my own lifetime a deterioration
a falling away
and the Bible teaches
that there will be a literal
falling away before
the coming of Christ
so why would I not
be leery
of the biggest denominations these biggest
groups making a lot of these changes
how do I not know that they're just
falling hook line sinker for the Antichrist
agenda
that's why it's important to make sure
that you have a Bible that doesn't change
like the King James Bible which
was translated in 1611
and while the spellings
were updated in 1769
same Bible same words
and now I have a King James
Bible in my hand right here
it's 2022
in America and guess what it
still says the same thing as
all the other versions now of course
you know sometimes printing errors
creep into any Bible any translation
that's the only thing that's really
been updated in King James Bibles
is the various printing errors and
typographical errors but we're talking about
the words they're not they haven't changed
for over 400 years they're
still the same thing God's word doesn't change
obviously we translate
it from Greek and Hebrew but that was
necessary because how could an English person
get the Bible if they don't speak Greek and Hebrew
we don't need to constantly translate it in English
but it's already been translated we don't need to constantly
translate it over and over and over again
and try to get closer to what God
said now we have what God said
is in the King James Bible
a child can understand the
King James Bible today that can
memorize it it's precious unto them
and it's an important distinction
to realize you need to
treasure what God actually
said not get these
corrupted versions that are based on
completely different manuscripts
completely different history completely different origin
they're not even complete
if you look in the NIV it takes out 16 whole verses
a lot of these
phrases have been changed and
malaligned and I think a lot of people are just
ignorant of what's going on
because they've just been lied
to their whole life
and they don't want to think that their pastor
or the people in their church
are doing anything wrong because
they're a good hearted person and it's kind of
it's kind of sick when you think about it like the
people that you trust the people you grow up with
the people that you love that they
could be wrong on some of these issues
they could have taught you things that are wrong
they could be going down a wrong path
you know it's kind of a
scary proposition
but if it's true
you need to figure it out
and get on the right path you don't want to just
follow well
intentioned people down
the wrong path you want to make sure you're
following Christ
and you're following him on the narrow
and straight path
I like that we're starting off
with two of the most important issues here
which is salvation
and the Bible version they're using
now the publishers claim that they
wanted to basically provide
the English speaking people across the world
with an accurate readable
Bible in contemporary English
and some may point to the HCSB
and think well it's easier
than the King James well that's not the case
Daniel 3 3 the King James
uses the very difficult word princes
well that's changed in the HCSB
to say traps
because what I think of the word princes
I think that is way too archaic I'd rather say
say traps they get rid of hell
they instead use
the word Hades the
transliteration of the Greek
word and there are a lot
of other examples where they're taking an easy
King James word
like the word boat turning it
into skiff is another example
they take something that's easy in the King James
they make it more difficult so it's actually not really
easier to read that's a lie
but also the idea that it really
doesn't make that big of a difference
alright fine you pointed out the repentance of sins
but why are you picking on the HCSB
well here's why
the Holman Christian Standard Bible I'm gonna go rapid
fire here the Holman Christian Standard
Bible replaces the word Lord
with Yahweh what's the point of
something like that is that simply to make it easier to read
there seems to be a nefarious
purpose for some of these edits
how about this one the Holman Christian Standard
Bible just like other modern versions
it removes the
verse that we would use as a
proof text rather
that we would use as a proof text
for the trinity 1 John
chapter number 5 verse 7
simply becomes in the King James
it's for there are three that bear record in heaven
the Father the Word and the Holy Ghost
and these three are one and in the modern
perversions of scripture
and here in the HCSB it's no different
it simply turns into
for there are three that testify
almost as if
it's like some sort of T.D. Jakes
quote or something like that
there are three that testify
somebody give me an amen like really
what happened to the
iconic proof text for the
trinity that you see in the real Bible
well the trinity is an important doctrine
and it's something that's under attack
and you know I believe that the trinity
is a
salvific doctrine it's one where
if you're off on the trinity
I don't believe you have the same Christ
and if you're not trusting the right Christ you're not even
saved and that's
a great point with these
is that this is attacking salvation
specifically
I think we even have a clip on
some of these teachings from
the Southern Baptist you think we should play
I know you've got some clips for us
I think there's like a repentance clip
that we have that we can play
can we get that pulled up?
let's go with
let me see here
I think there's a false view of repentance
is that
well we've got Ed Litton he's their current
president and he talks about
this is a sermon about
repentance
yeah he's talking about like how salvation's
always accompanied by works if you don't have works
you're not truly saved
et cetera so
we could go ahead and play that one here
Ed Litton salvation
always accompanied by works now he became
the president of the Southern Baptist
convention in June of 2021
recently announced that he's not going to run
for re-election or whatever
word would be appropriate to use
there but let's listen to him
define what true salvation
really looks like in his opinion
so if God is going to judge
by my works
is God going to judge by my works or by
the motivation of my heart? the answer is
yes. pay close attention
we are saved by grace through faith
and not our works
what you believe leads
us to a heart change
if you believe upon the Lord Jesus Christ
he gives you the Holy Spirit to change
your heart internally
with that change comes a change in
actions in your life
Charles Haddon Spurgeon believed that you
are not likely saved if you
never care to share the gospel
with anybody
wow
conversion is not
church membership conversion is not
baptism it's not serving
conversion is the Holy Spirit
taking residence and
president of your heart
and changing
you from the inside out has that ever
happened
well you know
again these clips are just confusing
because he's saying
you know salvation is just you know
faith and it's not our works he literally
read that from the the corrupt version
which still says the same thing
though that is you know saying
not of works
but then he's saying oh well let's quote
Spurgeon and Spurgeon saying
if you didn't give the gospel to anybody
in your life then you're not even saved
you know well
I think that there's a lot of people
who are saved who've probably never
given the gospel to someone or gotten them
saved you know the Bible literally even
brings it up in the
parable of the sower that the majority
are not
giving the gospel you got those that are
immediately offended they're not giving the gospel
you got those that got the word being
choked they're not giving the gospel
so in the parable of the
sower you got four groups the first group's not
saved the second group's saved but just
doesn't serve God at all
the third group they kind of
try but then they just kind of
fall away because the world's too important to them
kind of like demons have forsaken me
having loved this present world and
has departed on Thessalonica and then you finally
got a fourth group the last group
is the one that's bearing fruit
and in fact it doesn't say they got one person
saved it says 30 60 100
so you know if we're gonna
go with that logic we gotta say well unless you're getting
30 people saved then you're not
even saved which would be a preposterous
suggestion if the Bible says
salvation's by faith now I
believe that the Holy Spirit dwells inside
of us the moment we get saved and it's
drawing us to follow
Christ be more like Christ crucify
the flesh do that which is right but
you know you can resist
that you can still walk in
the flesh otherwise Roman 7
would make no sense they're on the Romans
expedition why aren't they
reading what Paul had to say about himself
so this is a
this is a preposterous idea
and of course when you're reading these false
versions you're in this convention
where you say both it's free gift but you
gotta genuinely turn away from your sins they
gotta kind of preach both
I mean I don't
do you feel like you understand even at all what that
guy believes it's a
contradiction if salvation
is not by works
but if you don't have the
works if you're not giving the gospel
you're not saved then
you're still being justified
by your works it's this lordship
salvation muddying the waters
and it should be no surprise
considering they're preaching from a false
Bible version
from which you can derive
this heresy I mean in Proverbs
16 6 it says that wickedness
is atoned for by loyalty
in the HCSB
we already talked about what it does to
1 Corinthians 1 18 and Matthew 7
14 and so
it's easy for them to twist the truth
when they have a Bible that makes it
that makes it
you know that enables them rather is what I'm trying to say
it enables them to do so
this false version that they're using
but think about Lot
think about you know Demas in the New Testament
think about
King Saul
you know he murdered God's priests through
Doeg the Edomite
he killed himself
but then according to 1 Samuel chapter 28
verse 19 he went to heaven
well when did Saul give the gospel to anybody
and when did he give the gospel there are so many
different backslidden Christians
Solomon at the end of his life
you know with all those wives and concubines
I mean could be another example of both
how many people is Lot getting saved
it doesn't seem like he got anybody saved
in Sodom and there are a lot of backslidden
Christians in scripture who we know went to heaven
so you have that
you know obviously you have Romans chapter 4
but to him that worketh not but believeth in him
to testify at the ungodly his faith is counted
for righteousness and people might want to
play devil's advocate with that and say well the works
there the worketh not is only
in reference to something
that happens prior to salvation
well I don't get that from the plain reading
of the text the plain reading of the text is telling
me that if you have no works
whether it's before or after salvation
that you're saved
that you will go to heaven even as David also described
it the blessedness of the man unto whom
God impudeth righteousness without works saying
blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven and whose sins are covered
blessed is the man
to whom the Lord will not impute
sin and so the Bible
makes it abundantly
clear that whether you have
the works after you get saved or before
is irrelevant because
it's simply just by faith
and I believe that
on this issue
it is a lack of understanding
of the doctrine of the old man and the new man
those who recognize
the difference between the old man and the new man
will realize
that works do not come
automatically because
they come through
the agency of the believer choosing
to walk in the
spirit to walk in the new
man and consequently exhibit
good works whereas
if they choose through their own agency to
walk in the flesh then they
will exhibit the works of the flesh
well you know what I'm thinking
about this clip and this is kind of
my on the fly parable so
help me if it doesn't make sense but
this is how I liken his preaching
it would be if I said hey Ben
I've got this really
awesome party
that I want to invite you to
it's got everything
you could ever want all the food
we're gonna have a great time
it's the greatest place you could ever show up at
it's gonna be at the coolest mansion
in the area and it's
completely free
okay all you have to do
is when you
show up say
Pastor Shelley's got me
Pastor Shelley said I could come it's
free and he said he's
paid for it so you get to come in
and I say but I also want to
tell you something else Ben
everyone that comes to
this party they give a
$50,000 donation before they
show up and
wouldn't you think like
but is it free
yeah it's completely free
you don't have to pay anything
but
everyone that's at the party made
the $50,000 donation
you would kind of think
like so do I
have to make the $50,000 donation
no no no no no Ben you don't
have to make the $50,000 donation
but everyone that's
going to the party everyone that's gonna actually make
it to the party gave a $50,000
donation before
they showed up and
of course what are you gonna do you're gonna have people
show up at the door and they're gonna
say yeah why should I let you in
and they're gonna say oh I
made a $50,000 donation
and then the guy's gonna be like
that's not enough the price
it was priceless you can't pay
that it was actually $50 trillion
in order to get into
this party and you're like I don't got
$50 trillion and so you're gonna
come short and they're gonna
not you're not gonna be in the party the same
with salvation a lot of people are gonna
show up and they're thinking that it was
their good efforts their good works
and they're gonna get and
stand before God and they're gonna
say hey haven't we done all these wonderful works
and he's gonna say depart from me I never
knew you because
it's trusting in Jesus that
gets you into heaven now of course
in my parable there's
nothing wrong with giving a donation
and of course we should
you know do works for God
but if it was truly free
then you would say look
it's a free party can show up if you'd like to give
a dollar you can you could give
$5, $50,000 even
if you give $0 just show up and
say you know Pastor Shelley paid
for me I'm getting in okay and
someone's gonna twist this and be like oh Pastor Shelley's
saying he's Jesus I'm not Jesus I
didn't you know pay for
salvation I'm just using this as a parable
so bear with me what do you
think about this parable
wouldn't you be confused thinking that you had to give this
$50,000 donation now yeah so it would
be required of me it seems
based on the parable to
pay all this money even
though it was on the onset branded
as free in
order to attend and that's what they're
doing to the gospel it's free you just have
to believe however if you don't exhibit
works afterward automatically if you're
not giving the gospel to people
then you were never
saved to begin with so we actually
are adding works in a roundabout
way when
they teach that it is it's
extremely confusing and
like I said I believe it is a
twisting and or misunderstanding
or intentional
omission of the
doctrine of the old man versus the new
man which tells us specifically
that if you walk in the
flesh you're going to exhibit the works of
the flesh if you walk in the spirit
you'll exhibit the fruit of the spirit
but it's
dependent on your
free will and it's almost
Calvinistic to say
exactly that the works will come
as automatically
yeah and I mean
he talked about it being the motivation
of your heart so it gets you saved and I agree with
that because you know
it's not that doing good works is going to get you out
of heaven or something it's like why are you
doing the good works are you doing them because you're genuinely
thankful that you're getting into this awesome
party called heaven or
are you doing it as your ticket
as your price to get in
and that's really what separates the wheat
from the chaff Cain
you know he gave a sacrifice under the
Lord Abel gave a sacrifice on the Lord
one was accepted one wasn't what was the
difference it was the motivation
you know one's doing it by the
offering his works and the other one's offering
a sacrifice and if you
offer your works you're not getting in
it's not some
sacrifice some works or a little
bit of both or I had them it's just
like Abel offered a
hundred princess sacrifice saved
and if you had anything
other than sacrifice if you had anything
other than the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ and your
faith in him alone you're not saved
you're not getting into the door you
will come
short now I think we have a couple colors on the line
I know we've been kind of
at least a few I don't know how many we have we might not
get up to all of them this evening
but I think we have a
Robert that's calling in
he's from Florida some
people like that state I do
one of my favorite states in fact some beautiful
state yeah some people are weird
that live in Florida and then they move to
Texas you know and you gotta you gotta
Florida eyes you know Texas
you know I've heard some better than
California I think
fluoride floridizing
is it floridizing Texas
you're falling I thought they were doing that to our water
or something okay well we've
got Robert on the line hey Robert
why don't you say hi to
Robert
don't blow it
hey there he is
hey how's it going good how are you
are you from Florida
awesome we're having a good night
awesome well
we're talking about the Southern Baptist Convention
do you have any thoughts for us
yeah I went to a
Southern Baptist Church for five years actually
and so I've got a good bit of experience with them
well tell us what it was
like
yeah so
as you mentioned earlier now some of them have
the right gospel not all of them are these repenting
or sinned heretics but so the one that
I went to had the right gospel and I
got saved in there but my
criticism would be just how weak of a church
it was you know I had a
family full of unsafe people after
going there for five years you know
all my brothers none of them got saved then
my dad didn't get saved going to this church for five
years and this is something I
had to kind of identify more recently and
thankfully they're all saved now but it's just
one of the things I would want to
point out essentially would be the
fruit of the Southern Baptist Convention is just
there's not really much from it you know pretty much all
the proof that you see comes from independent fundamental
Baptist churches the soul winning
and with the King James Bible well wait
a minute so I want to make sure I
understand this your whole family is going to a Southern Baptist
church and
and then you get saved there
but they're not saved like with
someone at the church many of them did not
well how did you get saved then did
someone in that church get you saved or
did you get saved while attending but from
some other source
yeah so I personally went up to the
pastor and I asked him and he
only gave me a handful of verses so again it was
not very strong okay you know like
but I mean like I said they did make progress
so my dad got on faith
alone but he didn't have what they'd always
say and so like I had to tell him
you know it's not about not
committing suicide or not committing murder
because he had that Catholic background I had to show him
all that stuff later so it was
kind of like I said just very watered down church
a very weak gospel poor presentation
you know
it basically I was one of those
like act 16 cases but you know
everyone else isn't really all that interested
so you like approached your pastor
or you're asking him how to get saved
and then he's giving you the gospel like
one on one kind of
but yeah to the rest of your church
if they're not asking they're basically
not figuring it out or getting
it
yeah essentially like there'd be every once
in a while like and I never even
found any of this because I was in like a Sunday
school but my mom told me that every once in a while they would
do a like a
gospel sermon but other than
so other than that there was no soul winning
none of that kind of stuff
well then how did your family get saved?
did you like confront them yourself or did this
pastor talk to them or what happened?
yeah so
my mom was an independent fundamental Baptist
before we went to the Trinity she got saved there
but you know she married a Catholic
and all that kind of stuff but
my
I personally led
two of my brothers and my dad to
the board and then the third one
got saved actually by watching Pastor Anderson
and I didn't realize that they weren't saved until
maybe eight months ago
well praise the Lord that's awesome
it's actually preaching
what was the motivation
like why'd you decide to
you know check their salvation get them saved
where'd you learn that from?
so
I actually came
across Pastor Anderson in 2017
just by accident I auto
play was on on YouTube and then no world order
bible versions played
that's the first time I ever learned about independent
fundamental Baptist and
I kind of got all on board on that after a while
but essentially I had
some people on Twitter
I joined a Baptist group chat and they
actually pressured me to get into church
and actually start you know getting right with God
change career plans all that kind of stuff
and so it was only then that I really
took that stuff seriously started questioning
my family and I realized that because I thought they were
before I got saved there I thought they would've
but that's basically how it happened
that's how I learned how to soul win was online
through Pastor Anderson and I got into a soul winning church
took me like a month
well that's great and
you know
it's sometimes intimidating
you know especially if your family is already going to a
quote unquote Baptist church
you know whether that be Southern or not
to see if they're saved but
it's sad how many people
go to a church even a Baptist
church and they're still just not even
saved they really haven't changed
their mind they're still trusting in their works
they're trusting in themselves or they're confused about
the gospel and
we find over here doing some soul winning
we run into a lot of Southern Baptists that simply
say going to Heaven is being
a good person have you done any soul winning
outside of your family
in that area?
Oh absolutely
do you run into other
so do you run into other Southern Baptists like
when you talk to just people out in
the neighborhood?
Yeah absolutely in fact
the first Baptist I ever knocked the door on
said you had to be a good person and so that was like
a wake up call you know what I mean?
Isn't that crazy?
Absolutely
I was not expecting it
I think that people I think that soul winning
changes your mind about so
many things because you finally
get confronted with what people actually
believe and you start realizing
like a lot of these people aren't even
saved what do you
think Ben? Have you run into some
Southern Baptists while giving the gospel
out or preaching the gospel? I've ran into people
who've identified themselves as
Baptist they said that they go to a
Baptist church I wasn't able to confirm whether
it was SBC or not but
for sure you know you'll meet a lot of people who
would claim to go to a Baptist church
or even claim to have been Baptist for their
entire lives and yet they give you
an answer on salvation
and the gospel that
isn't even anywhere near right
and it kind of leaves you flabbergasted
like well hold on a minute I thought you went to a Baptist
church I thought Baptist churches were supposed
to be clear on this issue
I thought that this would be something
you could understand quickly that you would
give me the answer that was right etc
but unfortunately and I think we
see it in the SBC and we see it even in independent
fundamental Baptist circles as well
where they're not
very meticulous about this doctrine
which you would think of all the doctrines in the world
that you would emphasize
would be salvation would be the
gospel of all the doctors of the world that you would
want to hammer in to make sure your church
understands it would be how to go to heaven
but unfortunately when you go out soul
when you meet people who go to
seemingly good churches or churches that use
the Baptist name and yet they're not saved
and it's sad
Well I think we should challenge our audience
if anybody is like Robert
they're going to a Baptist church but they've never
talked to their family members or friends
that go to their church about salvation
that they need to do it because
it's a sad reality and you
don't want to be at the
great white throne judgment
and be surprised by a family member
there and think like man
I never gave them the gospel I never even
just double checked I mean
what could be more important than checking
that your family and your friends are on the way
to heaven and I understand it's intimidating
you know I've tried to
preach to family members and stuff
and try to get them saved and
I find it's way more
difficult and intimidating
to give them the gospel but I still
find it super important. What about you Robert
would you say that preaching to family is
easier or harder than
like going out and talking to strangers?
I would say it was harder
but what it kind of did
was it made me want to practice on other
people first that way I wouldn't screw up on the important
one so it got me on soul winning
Well and I think if you can do it to your family
then you should realize how much easier
it is to just go out and talk to strangers
and just anybody
and everybody that you find going
on the highways and hedges and
that's great now when you went to the
Southern Baptist Church I've been to
Southern Baptist Church where the pastor seems saved
seems to have the right gospel but what
what version of the Bible were they using?
So I think that
they were doing the ESV
but it has been a few years you know it might have been
the NIV or whatever I was given an NIV
but once I saw Pastor Anderson
documenter I just threw that away but
so I
definitely Christians get mixed up on that
stuff it doesn't
mean that they're necessarily on saying
you could technically save someone with another
version but if it's a different message
okay it's not the same thing
Sure. Well and I've seen a lot of
Southern Baptist churches are pretty Calvinistic too
so
Oh yeah that was actually one of the things I wanted to talk about
Well, share
Yeah yeah
so I've got right here an article that I
pulled out and so it says here
first Calvinist
led churches are in
the minority though the number is increasing
second oh wait sorry
that was the wrong portion here it is my bad
Well around 10% of rank and
file Southern Baptist pastors will consider
themselves to be five point Calvinists
five point not three point or anything like that
or anything less
in this whole portion 29% of recent seminary
graduates would identify themselves
in that particular way
and in fact over 60% of
graduates in one of our seminaries
identify themselves as five point Calvinists and this is
from the baptistpress.com
Oh wow. Now
I think I've seen other articles
and we could fact check this but
I've seen something similar to like the 10%
five point but I think if it was like
three point it was like almost half
like I think like almost
half of the Southern Baptist convention
would say they're Calvinist to some degree
some shade or
or form or fashion but
the five point is really
extreme
there's a particular university
Southern Baptist Theological Seminary
it's in Kentucky
that is pumping out
five point Calvinists for sure
and you know
these people that are five point I don't even think they're
saved personally you know
they're so screwed up
on works and what it takes
to even be saved
you know what do you think about these
five point Calvinists Ben
I would agree I don't think it becomes
a salvation issue when you
get into the lordship stuff you get into
the lordship salvation looking
at people's lifestyle and determining
that they don't have enough works to get to heaven
that's really what it comes down
to because in their mind they would say
that you would have to
endure to the end to be saved that is a
prerequisite for salvation
is did you endure to the end
I would agree if we're just simply talking
about did you believe on the Lord Jesus
Christ did you
become an atheist then
you were never saved to begin with if you became an atheist
or a Muslim or something like that
but what they mean by that is did you
continue to have works to the end of your
life did you keep serving God
did you keep going to church to the end of
your life and you know I get that
people can be mixed up on that
and I'm not trying to throw all of them into
hell like I understand that people can think
that well there's going to be some change
but if you really pin them down
if you ask them well if all I did was believe in
Jesus but didn't do the works
would I go to heaven they would say yes
but a lot of these people that are
crossing the line of damnable heresy
would respond absolutely
not if you don't have the works
you're not saved and that's kind of where I would draw the line
so I want to be careful with that I don't want
people to think that I'm just throwing everybody into hell who's
slightly off on the works as evidence
doctrine but there is a line
and I think that Ed Listen
Litten excuse me
he
crossed it for sure well and
you know you have a
lot of five-point Calvinists
they'll kind of say things like
I didn't even believe
like they'll say you know
you don't even believe to get saved God just
chooses you he just elects you and then he gives
you this faith and or they'll say that
believing is a work
I've even heard them try to say like well that's
stupid believing in Jesus is a
work right comfort says that so then you
obviously have to have works to be saved
you have
people talking about
this radical
change too or you're you know you just
everything's completely different
I think we have a clip on that
from David Platt
where he kind of describes well yeah he uses
a horrible analogy
yeah the gospel have you heard of this
David Platt Robert
no I've never heard of him
I think he was the president of the
international missions board for the SBC
at one point an author am I right
about did he write something yeah I think he wrote a book
called radical I think he has a couple books maybe
he's a pastor of a church in Alabama
which I don't know how you how do you feel about
Alabama you're in Florida is there
like a rivalry there or something
I mean I lived there for
like a year and my grandparents were there
since I don't have any problems so it's kind of soft
what about you is it is Alabama Florida
is it no I like Alabama okay
I don't get into the whole can we play the David
Platt clip real quick I think I think
Robert can hear it too
video or whatever came on
my face but it was just
blank stage and
five ten fifteen
minutes go by
you're sitting there and it's
it's awkward
and then all of a sudden I come running out on stage
and I say I'm sorry I'm here late
I was
kind of out of breath I was coming over
here today driving over here
on the interstate and I had a flat tire
and got out and
fixed the flat tire but I accidentally
stepped out into the middle of the interstate
and this
this Mack truck hit
me
going head on
and it hurt
but but I got up and
uh finished fixing the tire
and got back in the car and
drove so I apologized for being late
now if this was the story I would
I would tell I told you then you would you
know one of two things either number
one I'm lying or number
two I am very deceived
and you know that because when
somebody gets hit by a Mack
truck they look they look
different than they did before
it's not funny based on that reality
I'm pretty sure I'm on safe ground and saying
that when a person comes face to face with God
and the flesh the savior king and sovereign
lord and he reaches down into your heart
and saves you from the clutches of sin
and self you're going to look different
you're going to look really
different everything
changes when you follow this
king
someone put in the comments when did David
talk or Daniel Tosh get called
to preach he does
kind of remind me of Tosh 2.0
or whatever
sorry I think Robert you
couldn't hear that clip but I'll kind of
break it down are you still on the line with us
yeah
okay so basically David Platt gets
up and he says you know what if I got hit by a
Mack truck I think I would look
different and and if I walked
in here and I said I just got hit by a Mack truck
15 minutes ago on the highway
you know and I had no scrapes
or bruises or I looked the exact
same you wouldn't believe me you'd think I was lying
and he relates that to the gospel
saying that if you get saved
you're just going to look so different it's going to be
so obvious that
you know basically had
God save you
that you couldn't lie about it
like it's just too it's just too apparent
but here's the thing
what's so stupid about this
analogy is the fact that
there has to be saved people
in the world okay number one and
number two yeah I guarantee
if I walked into any store
any business on this planet and someone
had just got hit by a Mack truck
15 minutes ago which of course they'd be a
flattened pancake they wouldn't even be able to stand there
I would be able to tell
but you know what I've never seen
somebody in my entire
life that I looked at him and thought
wow that person's been hit by
a Mack truck of the gospel
I mean have you ever seen someone and they're just
glowing with salvation I mean they're just
so physically evident their
salvation the same as someone having
been smashed by a giant
semi truck going
70 miles an hour on the highway
90 if you're in Texas and
it's just like of course not
I mean isn't this the dumbest analogy
you could possibly give even outside
of the theological ramifications
just the fact that I've never seen
someone that looks that much different and how does he
look different wearing his pink little
collar t-shirt or whatever
collared shirt or whatever looking like
a college frat boy or something like
that are we supposed to believe he's
just this separated
gospel anointed man of God
he looks like he just came from a
frat party yeah and I'm supposed to think
like this guy's been hit by a Mack truck of the
gospel of Jesus Christ
his whiny little pathetic
analogy doesn't work on me I
can't believe other people fall for this junk
well if you get hit by
a Mack truck your
your like your body's destroyed
like I don't even understand
the point like it's a
change for the worse it's not a change for the better
you come up with a better analogy if you're trying
to say that it's a change for the better but it's like this
fake sort of piety
he has this he has this piety about him
he pedestalizes himself by
teaching this doctrine almost implying that
well he's the standard he really changed
he really is saved because he changed he repented of all his sins
it's like well hold on a minute
when did the flesh get saved
it's your soul and your spirit that goes to heaven
the reason why the flesh still has blemishes
it goes into the ground eventually
it's because it's not the flesh that gets saved
the flesh goes into the ground the flesh sins
the flesh is the old man
maybe we just can't see it oh yeah
I mean there you go hey Robert have you
seen anybody hit with a Mack truck of
the gospel
no most people I've
seen get saved for the most part
they don't even like go to church or anything it's like oh
well that's a relief they say that they believe
and you know that's about it
now people who go to church you know
maybe they maybe they were more
convicted to go and do that but it's
it's you still have free will it's still like
it's not batteries included you have to
actually force yourself to do it
right walk in the spirit and you shall not
fulfill the lust of the flesh yeah what analogy
in the bible though likens salvation
to death by
truck you know like you know the
bible talks about being born again
which is like a positive thing getting a
life you know being risen from
the dead like
everything in the bible is like this positive
he likens the gospel into getting hit by a semi
truck yeah I've never heard anybody
say that was a positive thing no it's never
thirsting again never hungering
again it's always this positive thing drinking
water why do they always have to come up with
these stupid analogies and then it's like an anvil
falling on dying dying
get you know shooting animals
or you know another you know this one right
here with this guy getting run over by a
Mack truck false prophets
tend to come up with the worst
analogies on salvation
it's a common denominator between all
of them and Platt is no different
well it's only gonna reach
the prideful who said you know what that
is me I was just I was
just living this life of sin
despair and now I'm just
it's like a Mack truck of repenting
of sin and I'm just so holy
and so righteous now I mean that's what
you'd have to believe about
yourself to even kind of fall for this
stupid narrative or or that I
guess you see that and of course
you know I'm not taking away from the fact that some
people do make radical changes in their life you
know praise the Lord if someone was
on drugs or living
a life of fornication
or basically a deadbeat and now they're
like working hard and serving God
and and basically making a 180
and of course that can happen
and we hope that it always happens
but it would be just
asinine to suggest that that always
happens or we see something
and of course using this over the top
example of something that's
so obvious you couldn't even deny it
with your eyes and then
you know likening that onto salvation
which is not a physical thing anyways it's a
spiritual thing so
you know it really it's really
just frustrating how many people
fall for this stuff
hook line and sinker
pastor
you know what happened to me when I got
saved
I woke up out of bed the next morning
I started singing
some hymns real loud
I went soul winning for three or four
hours I read my Bible
for another six hours
I went to church that evening
I read my Bible another four
hours afterward I went home
went to bed woke up the next morning
and started the process all over again
is that not lordship
salvation
I mean I
I certainly don't remember myself
that much detail but
you know obviously there's been people
in our churches that have made
radical transformations like that
and yet they still believe salvation is as free
as you know
air as free as oxygen
while it's still free I don't know if it's free
everywhere in the world anymore but
I was trying to like thinking of something
what else is what's more free than oxygen
I mean oxygen is the only thing left these
days that's free with today's economy
I was ripping off a pastor
sermon there the point I'm trying to make is it
sounds ridiculous I just I got saved
and I woke up started singing hymns it's like that's
basically what they're saying obviously I'm
exaggerating but that's essentially
the idea is you get up out of
you know you're saved and then you just all of a sudden the
works come automatically when
it's work right it takes your free
will it takes you deciding not
to yield to the flesh
and you know the
people who teach this doctrine
they come off as so
prideful so prideful
well
Robert I really appreciate you sharing that
information with us I know you wanted to bring
up the Calvinist slant was there something more you
wanted to say about Calvinism
no I
mainly wanted to I have a quick
quote from Matthew 7 and
this is usually where they'll kind of
talk about this whole
you know the fruit of the
spirit is how you judge everything but you know
it's worth knowing this is for something
specifically for false prophets and it's also
it's got a double you know a double
meaning here where it's also helpful
as you would see when I read it so I'll just do
that really quick it says beware of
false prophets which come to you in sheep's clothing
but inwardly are ravening wolves
you shall know them by their fruits
you may gather grapes of forns or figs
figs of thistles
even so every good tree bringeth
forth good fruit but a corrupt
tree bringeth forth evil fruit
a good tree cannot bring forth
evil fruit neither can a corrupt tree bring forth
good fruit every tree must bringeth
bringeth not forth good fruit
is he sewn down and cast
into the fire wherefore by the fruits you shall
know them so you know a false prophet by the fruits
and my question is what is the
fruit of the southern baptist dimension you know
it's their soul winning where is their bible
where is their great doctrine and their preaching
you don't really get any of that
and additionally that's the application
you identify a false prophet
you don't identify just some random Joe Schmo
to check if he's saved by the
fruit and so
well I definitely agree
with your sentiments there and you know
at least it's encouraging to know there's still
some people in the southern baptist
that are saved
they still could get someone saved and you know
I think that some of these southern baptist churches
are still getting you know some of their children saved
and maybe they're reaching
new people every once in a while getting them saved
and I don't want people to think that
you have to be an independent baptist to get
someone saved but it just
feels like there's a lot of tears
in the wheat of the southern baptist convention
a lot of people are mixing in works and they're
choking the handful
of good
preachers in those denominations
and really our call is to take
that guy that got you saved
and say look why don't you
leave the southern baptist convention get a king
james bible start soul winning
and get more people saved you know why
didn't that light a fire under this guy
that basically you have robert
fall into his lap saying sirs what
must I do to be saved like wouldn't
you think wow that was actually pretty cool
maybe I should try that with someone else
or is it this Calvinist doctrine
though that basically suggests
the only people that are going to get saved are like
robert where they basically are coming and
begging for you to get saved but
I would almost venture that that guy
has only had a
handful of people that are like robert
coming and begging for salvation
and you know the bible says in roman
chapter number 10 that he was found of them that
sought me not you know it's important to also go
and find people that weren't ever going to
knock your door not
find you and ask you about salvation but rather
you confront them with the
gospel are you still going to the
cbc church or you found like a better
church in your area or
oh I'm going to a wonderful
old ife church you know lots of soul
winning and all that and so you know I love my
church so I'm going to right now do you want to
you want to plug your church so somebody in the area can
find it
um I'm not sure if they'd really want
to be associated with you I just don't want to bring
I understand that it's okay
it's all right yeah well you know what
maybe if you find robert on the internet
and you're in
florida maybe you can hit him up
and uh you know you guys can
uh go soul winning together
um there's definitely
a lot of good churches out there
and uh you know we don't want to
we don't want people to just feel like you have
to go to one church to
be saved or a specific
church to be saved but you
know what you need to still get that baptist bias
and praise the lord you got a church
out there that's going soul winning it's
firing you up I'm sure you're also learning
a lot more too what would you say about just overall
doctrine uh from
this church versus your southern baptist church
it's not even comparable you know
the first time that I ever heard any
preaching on jobe and elijah
very major characters
was actually in 20 like 21
from pastor anderson and so
then I didn't learn about any of those
characters growing up even though I went to
church you know from 9 to
you know 19
and so it just shows you how weak
these people are in the doctrine and all the stories
it's just they stick to the book of john they stick to
the new testament when there's
these great and wonderful characters you know
besides david and goliath and the old testament
yeah
well we really appreciate you being on here brother
robert and god bless you out
there keep keeps going soul winning
it's really encouraging to hear that your family
got saved uh that you care enough
and and uh that you also care
about strangers out there
i hope that your story can motivate
other people to share the gospel
with their family confront them
and just even confront strangers
amen thank you to that
god bless you have a good night
so ben we've covered a lot of topics
is there is there another one
that you kind of had that you wanted us to address
i know we're we've been on the
we've been doing the show for a little while now so i want to make
sure if we had something else
that's kind of important well
this is not obviously one of the
fundamentals of the faith or anything like that
but we do have
the southern baptist convention
softening their stance
on the sodomites big time
and we can play that clip and kind of
talk about it a little bit here
before we round things out we do have a couple other callers
we need to get to but
uh let's go ahead and if you want to play
well i i want to bring up some of these
crazy examples of the southern baptist because
i know he said the guy was saved yeah
but there's definitely ones that are not
saved and and some even
heretics can we talk about
some of them too yeah let's do it
so who do you got well i think some
people get surprised by this
but there's a guy in the
dallas forward area his
name is ed young
and he has a
really large church
so not not every southern
baptist church is is going to say baptist
on the name
of the church is called fellowship church
so just on the surface like how would you know
it's like a you know not
a nom or something else or even
as a southern baptist but if you look it up
it says it's affiliated with the southern baptist convention
ed young is a pastor and
he ended up writing a book
and then having this like bizarre
event
at his church and you know
he called it sexperiment
which i don't even it's kind of
a gross name to even have with this guy
but he had
this like event
where he went on the top of his church
for 24 hours with his wife
to do like this thing called a
bed-in and it was a
live streamed event
i don't even know what
i don't even want to know
some kind of perverted display
on the rooftop
to try and talk about
bedroom things which you know
the by sometimes this is what i
find pastors of these these churches
do is they say oh the bible
you know and people don't talk a lot about this
because they don't have the courage to you know
it's just because it's not appropriate yeah why would i
want to bring up something the bible doesn't go into
great detail about because you know what
a man when he gets married to a woman
they can figure those things out you know they don't
need you to come give them some
kind of a experiment it's
just we try and and and tell them
what to do i mean that's what the world does
is try to pervert the bedroom
you know marriage is honorable and all
and the bed undefiled
but whoremongers and adulterers god
will judge what the bible says so
you know whatever's going on in the marriage
bedroom is is fine
the bible says it's great and
i'm pretty sure men and women have been figuring out
there's like seven billion people
on the planet i i think that
they figured it out i don't think
that we have to uh have
ed young tell us what to do here
but of course worldly people do
yeah they're so obsessed
with this stuff because you know there's no satisfaction
outside of marriage yeah and then
when they want to talk about bedroom even some you know couples
these worldly couples will do this you
hear it at work sometimes
talking about the bedroom hey i have
an idea leave that to the bedroom
leave that stuff behind closed
doors i don't need to hear about
it yeah the bible says it's a shame to speak of those
things which are done of them in secret
so like there's a lot of evil things that are being done
in secret that shouldn't be exposed with the
the world's exposing them and then we have pastors
doing this and the bible says to
abstain from all appearance of evil
you know there's a person in the bible that does
something like this and i'm
not saying it's the exact same but
it's similar where absalom
takes over the kingdom from david
and then in front of
all israel sets this tent
where he's having relations with david's
wives and basically just
shaming himself and
their entire nation the word of god
david i mean just like a complete
embarrassment to everyone
and what an embarrassment to texas
and the dallas worth area
his church his wife
himself to do this weird
bizarre thing but look this is coming
this is the fruit of the southern
baptist convention where they
literally have people like ed young they have other
people like uh the david flat
we brought up we have matt chandler's in this area
he's a big name we have stephen
furtick the guy
who literally got up and said
i am god almighty
and i don't know how people still defend that
i saw somebody we
made a little clip of one of his songs
gyra you know
gyra
i don't know it's it's a bizarre
song that they made where
you know they're they're basically taking half of
god's name instead of jehovah gyra they just
shortened it to gyra because i guess it's
slang or something um
they make this song we we made a little clip about
this and we get comments on this like every day
like i get comments every single day
and people are defending this and they said
oh stephen furtick was
saying that's what god says to us
that i am god almighty but if you
listen to that clip it
doesn't feel that way or seem that way in any
shape or form that he's saying oh this is what god says
he's just making a bunch of i statements
about himself and then just throws
in like i am god almighty on
top of that i mean how is
that people are gonna come up
with all kinds of excuses
for their favorite pastor for their favorite
preacher you look at the clip
it's it's in context
it's obvious what he's trying to say it's
regardless even if that's what
his intention was it sounds
evil it sounds
horrifying why even utter
a statement like that when the preceding
statements were about yourself
so i don't buy that excuse whatsoever
i was shocked to know
that stephen furtick
is part
of a southern baptist convention church an
spc church a lot of these names again they
take the the name baptist out
of the church name
so you have to google them to even find
out that there's elevation church elevation
church just sounds like a
liberal non-denom or like a pentecostal
or something right what do you think is the motivation
behind that removing the word baptist
obviously you think about it this way
i'm actually okay with it because
i don't want them to defile
the baptist name anyway but
what do you think their motivation is behind that
i think that they're just getting away from baptist
doctrine and they're they don't want the stigma
of someone who actually believes that
salvation is important enough to
make a big deal about it and
you know i would be fine if the southern baptist
convention just wants to call the southern slavery
convention or whatever you know they want to call
it i mean their home and christian standard
bible added the word slave
or changed the word servant
to slave updated it
from two times in the king james
to three hundred and fourteen times
literally
it's like that's bizarre
like why you would have they love the word slave
and i've heard some people say like
that's kind of what it means but
you know it really
to me falls apart when you think about
their logic because
their logic is always like well we want
to constantly update the bible to
be with the modern times what
person has any positive
connotation with the word slave
in 2022 america i mean it's become
the most stigmatized word
it in this you know race baiting
culture that we live in i mean
to say that you want to have a bible
that has the word slave and it's well done
the good and faithful slave
you know that's a completely different ring
to it than servant yeah
and they're making out the christian life
in that bible it makes out the christian
life to be
slavery well if you believe in calvinism
is it how is it not slavery
when it's just got
and it's just like you will
get saved you know
and you will not get saved and it's like
but it's kind of contradictory
how can you be a good slave
when you're not even in control when you're not even the driver
seat i mean you did nothing
everything was it you're just a robot
just good robot
you know really i mean you don't
get you don't like say like good computer
you pretty much only get mad at your
computer when it screws up because you just expect
it to work all the time because it's a
computer it's a robot you know you
don't inspect flaws or whatever
and and so this calvinistic
doctrine coming from the southern baptist convention
where they just believe everybody's a puppet
on god's fingers how could you even
good puppet oh such a good
puppet he always does
exactly what i want him to do
i mean this makes no sense can you imagine someone
petting their little puppet it's like they carry it
around like this one's a good pup this
is a bad puppet you know this puppet
does it doesn't
i mean you would think this guy is a psychopath
pervert or something exactly
you know and that's the way they dress up
god you know as opposed to
literally having a free
will where people choose
the lord they accept as
free gift of salvation and then out of love
in their hearts they actually serve god rather
than being just a slave
to this irresistible grace
nonsense that they teach and you know
i don't want to get too far off on that
because we could just literally kick this
can forever you know if you can't
leave the southern baptist convention after you see
their doctrinal statement on salvation i don't
think anything's going to change your mind
but i know we have a couple more callers
i think we have a
john from north
carolina he grew up in the southern
baptist convention i just
like the the name of that there are the
sound of that name john yes me
too in fact i really like that name
john baptist we got john on the line
can you say hello yep
i'm here hello how's it going how you
doing john
doing well before i get into all that i
wanted to go back to your uh
mac truck analogy from a few
minutes ago yeah let's do it
yeah so i was a cop for
12 years and unfortunately
i had to deal with all grades
of fatalities and just
the most horrendous injuries
and everything involving
traffic accidents and people getting run
over and you know you're standing
there and it never occurred to me to say well
this body laying here reminds
me of somebody who just got saved you know
yeah i mean have you ever
seen someone it's just the worst
that looked physically devastated
like that and you thought oh salvation
right
yeah exactly that's the
total opposite though yeah
so um yeah i just want to throw that out there
that i thought that was just one of the weirder
things i've heard it's it's eternal
life it's like another giving people life
you know it's the it's a new birth
it's not getting run over by a truck
it's not getting killed they
make it into death
yeah and it's not like you know i think
we get desensitized by television or
whatever it's so like if you've never seen
it up close and personal
and experienced that you know
yeah i don't ever choose to
use that analogy you know exactly
i wouldn't want anybody else to have to
see it either it's you know yeah and
something to be desired just to be
again to be fair to the guy
even though you know he is who he is
what he's trying to say is
well when you get hit by a mag truck you
change you get disfigured or whatever you
get injured so therefore the gospel
ought to change you as well
it's obviously idiotic
it's a horrible analogy but also
and i think more important than that it's
theologically flawed
in the sense that he's teaching the lordship
works as evidence
in order for you to be declared as
saved but go ahead
so you grew up southern baptist
right tell us about that
yeah so um i got
saved when i was in the fourth grade
i had been attending a southern baptist church
all along i think the way my family initially
got into the church was a neighbor had invited
us to attend with them
but anyway we went to uh like a
a play or dramatization
that was put on by a local um
i guess you'd call it a non-denomination church
it was called heavens gate
and hell's flames
yeah i've like i went to the same thing
kind of oh yeah
so it's like a traveling thing i think
yeah
at the end of it all i really walked
away it was like i don't want to go to hell
i went down to the front at the end of
the play and i think you know we prayed a prayer
without really understanding
too much but um
thank god my parents had the wherewithal
i want to say well you know jonathan wants to get
saved so let's get the preacher down here
to speak with him about it so the next
night the preacher came over
and took the bible and
you know led me to the lord
um and so like i said
that was fourth grade
and about a year probably a year and a half
later that pastor
left the church like retired
um and going all through
this time frame to the best of my
memory as a small child we were king james only
you know all i ever heard was the king
james bible and then
we got a new preacher in and things
so i kind of lived through this gradual
change of the southern baptist
convention becoming more and more
liberal yeah um
got we got to middle school and they hired
a um a new
youth pastor and he was
affiliated with the um ethics
and religious liberty
commission have you guys ever heard
of that i've never heard of that
it's a it's a branch of the
southern baptist convention um
i had to google it while i was on hold
to make sure i got the name right but
it says here the public policy arm
of the southern baptist convention
so our new youth pastor was
like dually employed by
that group and our church at the same
time and
with the new pastor that came in after
the one that i got saved under
all of a sudden it's like the niv kind
of started trickling in um
like for instance you know when i
graduated high school they gave everybody
a gift and i got an niv
bible um
that were they using a different version
before that
it seemed like it would kind
of ebb and flow
i guess you know like it was not a hard
and fast rolling and we went like
i vividly remember
moving away from the hymnal and
into like the more modern and contemporary
music where chris tomlin
the choir singing
yeah you gotta there's like a tape deck
in the back and they hit play and there's
somebody up front you know
singing a solo michael w smith
chris tomlin
that kind of stuff or what was it
toby mack and so yeah
all the all the like the 90s
christian contemporary music i guess
the kind of music where a muslim can
listen to it and not get offended
because there's no actual dark gods
and awesome or anything yeah my god
a muslim a jew could go listen
to that no problem because there isn't
any doctrine in the songs
so anybody who just believes
in a god
of some sort could listen
to those songs and enjoy them
as a matter of fact
you know talking about music i remember
one of the um
because it was kind of a big deal when
the youth pastor got up to preach a sermon or
whatever and uh what was the song
from the 90s it was like hey now
you're a rock star you remember that
hey now you're a rock star
get your game play
because i'm not lonely
like this individual i can't sing it
but i know what you're talking about
sorry for my butchering
is that what you're talking about
yeah that's the one but the the youth
minister took the lyrics to the song
and like morphed it somehow into like
a salvation type message or whatever
which i mean being a teenage
kid and this is what you've always heard
i mean i thought that was i thought the
song was lame but i was like okay cool
whatever you know um
yeah i think it's smash mouth
i don't even know
yeah okay i'm dating
myself and um
i think the next pastor that came in
just like went full bore niv
um i think
years later speaking with people
who grew up in the church as well was like yeah
the new pastor like threatened
you know because there's like a board of deacons or whatever
like threatened the board of deacons
that he would quit if they tried to
make him be king james only
so they backed off of it because they didn't
want to lose the new pastor
yeah so um
wow
that was like that was from 19
early
90s through the early 2000s
when i went away to college i just kind of got out of it
and was doing
whatever until um
i stumbled across pastor anderson
on the internet and figured out what an
independent fundamentalist
church even is and got plugged into
one of those
so describe the differences
you know you you said you
you finally it sounds like you kind of just quit
church is that fair to say i'm just
trying to pretty much yeah but
then you found a fundamental baptist church
my wife was like wanting to push me into
like you need to get back in church and i was like
which i was saying the entire time like
right i had other people like
as a like as a backslidden
christian i can't believe you're
doing such and such do you think god will
let you in the heaven right now doing
well of course he would i'm saved i mean
i'm yeah i'll admit that this is not the
right thing to be doing but it's not i'm not
unsaved all of a sudden don't you know
so i was always straight and clear on that
thank god they got the pastor
to get me saved you know the day after
that play or whatever because it was
just you know i was saved i just
i just understood it and
went with it you know it was never
he's like he's like the
drunk guy rebuking ray comfort like
no i'm saved
that's one of the most hilarious
clips ever it's i'm not
saying you were drunk but i'm just saying like you're
funny this guy's just like living a kind of a
you know a worldly life but he's like
but i'm saying yeah it's because you have these people
living a worldly life like you
mentioned and yet they're more doctrinally
sound than the supposed preacher who makes
a living going around and bullhorning
people on the street etc so it's sort
of comical when you think about it that way
but the reality is we don't
doubt someone's salvation based on
their lifestyle right i mean that's not
if you believe salvation by faith yeah if you believe
salvation's by faith you don't doubt
somebody's salvation because they're backslidden
or anything like that the
occasion to doubt somebody's salvation
is if they're in a damnable heresy if
all of a sudden they don't believe the deity of christ
if all of a sudden they believe a
work salvation or they deny eternal
security vehemently
things like that but
not how someone's living and it's
unfortunate that she had to go through that so you got
into this church you know eventually
and what happened
then is do you notice any differences
between the churches
sure well for one
you know like i had tried to give the gospel
to some people like growing up and
i didn't know how because we were never
taught and so i would always just kind of paraphrase
a general outline of what the gospel
kind of is you know
without relying on
strict bible verses
um yeah and i can remember
two instances in particular two different guys
and i'm like paraphrasing stuff to them and they're
like okay you know and
the second one is a good friend of mine
gave him the paraphrase
got more serious into it and learned
more came back to him year
about a year later and
and used the king james bible and went
through it and he got
saved you know so it's like oh okay
like this is how it's done and this is like
this is the power of the gospel at work
yes whereas my
words over here that i was trying to
you know put it to my language
didn't get it done
well and it could have sowed a seed but
you want to get the job done
right right
um
other differences uh the music
um
you're not singing smash mouth at your fundamental
baptist church or what no
no no no
that's funny
uh there was a
that went on um
like at the beginning
it was not that different
it was kind of what i wanted to
highlight you know early on when i was a
small child and this may be some of it chalked
it up to i was a little kid and didn't know any
better yeah but
from what i do remember i don't see a
stark contrast versus
when i grew up
and if i were to go you know my parents
continued going through the church and so
a couple of years ago it was like uh
christmas fell on a sunday
so we went and
it was a big difference yeah
uh as an adult i could tell the difference
well and what you're describing
you're you're basically saying
the fundamental baptist church today
is not much different than the church you were
as in as a child
but now that you've grown up
you you notice that the southern baptist
church has changed a lot
whereas the fundamental baptist church kind of seems
like church used to be and
uh how they've kind of departed
from where they used to stand
yeah it would be interesting if you could go
back and compare in the early 90s
the ifb to what it is now
and say well has it become water
down it hasn't shifted to what the
southern baptist used to be
you know so you know
10, 15, 20 years should we be worried
you know is the the ifb
gonna turn into what we're seeing now with
the southern baptist so we better
you know wake up and take
heat and and keep that from happening
you know amen
well and i of course you know
sometimes you paint with a broad brush you know
it would probably be a little bit individualistic
on on the
church some churches could have gotten better worse
um it's probably hard to say
for sure just across the board
but one thing that i because
i think a lot of independent churches are still king
james only but i know some of them have stopped
being king james only so that would be an obvious change
and i think a lot of them used to be more soul
winning like more going out evangelizing
and a lot of them have kind of either scaled back
or reduced the level of soul
winning i think some of them even incorporating
some of the more contemporary music
so i think those are the things that
we see and i think that's an interesting parallel
it's almost like the a lot of these independent baptist
churches are kind of like the republicans
where they're they're not necessarily
staying the same they're just staying
a couple steps behind the liberals
whereas the sbc's like the democrat
just going off the deep end
and the independent baptist
kind of republicans just kind of staying a few steps
behind but both changing
and going in the wrong direction
um and and
so i think
um and and hopefully
we can kind of turn the tide and
and wake some people up and and try to
stay true to
biblical doctrines
obviously i'm not against updating things or creating
new songs per se but
uh i'm not gonna take smash mouth
and turn it into a hymn
it does remind
me of psalm 58 but you know
i think it's a little bit different too
yeah that's not be
what they're referring to with their
bad name or whatever
but that is funny
well thanks for your testimony there
yeah thanks so much for calling in robert
robert who is it john isn't it
i'm sorry i got i got confused
how can i forget john
i don't know john the baptist
okay terrible well thanks so much for
calling in brother john and uh
we really appreciate your testimony
uh i hope you have a good evening hope you keep soul winning
and uh get that other friend
you got one of your friends say let's get
the other one saved
yep all right we'll be praying for him
well god bless we'll pray for your friend
and uh you have a good night
well you brought up in this
call about them kind of
you know the sbc and
and you know what being watered down
there's a clip i wanted to play i was gonna
play this earlier and if you we can
the production team could find it ed litten agrees
with sodomite host lecturing
christians for being hateful
this was an msnbc
interview that ed litten did
and uh
if we can get that give me a thumbs up
when it's queued i want to set this up
so ed litten does an interview with msnbc
the msnbc host
essentially
attacks christians
for being supposedly hateful
he's on the air burying christians
talking about how they're hateful talking about how
they're so mean and everything and ed
litten here's how he responded to
that here's the clip
way too many christians
who express zero
gentleness and zero respect
when talking to people who don't
share their views whether it's
atheists agnostics gay people
like myself or just people who don't
share their politics and that is not
biblical that is not scriptural
that is not what the bible teaches
believers to do before i have to
let you go what do you plan to do as the
president of the southern baptist convention
to make people of faith
more palatable less
contemptible and maybe a little more
christ-like in the way they deal with the
rest of the world
well let me say this first of all you're right
and tragically
as part of the the whole culture
seems to be struggling with giving honor
and respect i respect you because
god created you i respect you because
jesus paid a high price to redeem you
i respect you because the word of god
teaches me to respect you and to honor
you and then the fact is we're not
seeing we're seeing a breakdown in our
culture which even impacts our churches
sometimes but i will say this this
people called southern baptists are a
good people when when i won last week
people who voted against me came up very
kindly and said i didn't vote for you
but i love you in christ and i will pray
for you i think again
the french is loud right now in our
culture on every level
and what it means is we have to practice
exactly what you're holding us
accountable to and that is what the word
of god says
pastor ed linton is the new president of
the southern baptist convention
wow i'm gonna puke
that was disgusting and that was gross
how how does this think about the logic
here for a second
this guy is literally saying he's a
filthy disgusting abominable
reprobate he's saying like
i'm a disgusting sodomite
i do the most abominable act that the
bible describes people doing
and then i want to lecture
this southern baptist president
on how christians are not christ-like
like you're the epitome
of not being christ-like you're the
epitome of of what's
unholy and unrighteous
and wicked as hell
and then you have the gall
to try and lecture people on not
being christ-like or being
a christian he doesn't know anything
about being a christian or what the
bible teaches otherwise
he wouldn't have a christian
or what the bible teaches otherwise
he wouldn't have the disgusting filthy
affections that he has
romans one makes it abundantly clear
this guy hates god this guy has
rejected god he's been given over to a
reprobate mind why would
ed litten then sit here
and allow this guy to pontificate
about how much more christian
and christ-like he is this
msnbc host
than christians that
you know are not tolerant and
hateful and they don't like
certain things it's like he's not gonna like
god because god's pretty
hateful towards people that are wicked
the bible says that he abhors the bloody
and deceitful man i mean the bible says
that he's angry with the wicked every
day that doesn't sound like tolerance
that doesn't sound like acceptance
that sounds like anger
that sounds like wrath i mean
when god burned sada megamura
how accepting and tolerant was
god of uh their sodomite
lifestyle ben
how about zero negative
you know this is the most evil
grotesque abominable
reprobate on television
getting up thinking he has the
moral high ground in the interview
lecturing
christians talking down
to christians in the most
condescending patronizing
manner possible and ed
litten has a chance to respond
by standing for the people
of god and the word of god
and what are the two words he chooses
to use i agree
with you talking to a filthy
abominable sodomite i agree
with think about ed litten oh i
agree with you people need to be
more pal more palatable
like christians being hateful
not palatable disgusting
pedophile reprobates that's
pal that's palatable think about how much he
switched the narrative i mean
you've got somebody that literally has
the most disgusting affections
is is completely reprobate i mean
these type of people are the ones
that are putting on dresses
and lipstick and calling themselves a woman
when they're clearly a man
i mean talk about a mac truck you know
conversion here and
yet we want to
make they're they're way more palatable
than these you know
god-fearing christians who
take their family to church and love their
children and raise them then
two sodomites who adopt children and
abuse them and pass them around a sex
ring yeah i'm describing dave
rubin and his disgusting
filthy criminal comrade
that he calls a husband
but there's no such thing because marriage
between a man and a woman not
between a beast and another beast well you
said but he's he's conservative though
oh he's a conservative dog
so he's okay okay
well you know conservative means nothing
anymore apparently because if
you think that two dudes can adopt
children you you could
never be considered conservative you are
a complete moron you're a complete
freak and and of course
why would you even do an interview
with this type of disgusting filthy
abomination i mean
oh you're so hateful pastor shelly
look you know what's hateful
is adopting children and then abusing
them that's hateful
and that's what these people are doing you know
what's not hateful is hating the pedophile
and not tolerating the pedophile
and not tolerating disgusting
and filthy wicked abominations that the bible
condemns with the death penalty
in leviticus 2013
i didn't make that up that's what the
bible says uh is that make god
not accepting i mean
at what point are we gonna just basically say
that god has the problem here
if we're gonna say that those laws
aren't accepting and intolerant
and you know we need to make it more
palatable let's get a palatable bible
you know yeah that takes out
everything that's negative
no no no hard versus
oh because of the poor little son
of mine oh it feels so bad
we need to make the bible less
mean for them that's pretty convincing
ben i feel like you feel pretty sad
yeah i obviously i think
you could tell you know the bible
says if a man also lie with mankind as
he lies with a woman both of them have committed
an abomination they shall surely be put
to death their blood shall be
upon them in romans 1 this is
reiterated who knowing the judgment of god that
they which commit such things are worthy of
death it should come as no surprise though
that ed lidden would respond to the accusations
made by an open sodomite
about christianity and christians
and believers in general the way he
did because this is the same man
who got up and said that he's actually
changed his view on romans
chapter 1 and characterized
the abomination of sodomy
as something that god
whispers in comparison to
other sins in an attempt to
downplay the sin
and downplay you know
what it means to be a homo
to be a sodomite and how
evil and how severe it is
in the eyes of god so it should
come as no surprise that that's how he conducted
himself in the interview a compromising
spineless coward
the president currently of
the sbc but it's not like
jd greer was much better
talking about how christians should be the
friends of the quote lgbt
community which is something
you had a response to
in a documentary called
the sodomite deception which i would
highly recommend for those of you who want to get
red pilled on this issue or
or red evicted or evicted
because of this issue
sodomite deception
dot com because this could be jarring to a
first time listener and so
just go hear us out
don't just dismiss what we're saying right
now as hateful and bigoted
and all the rest of it
why do you have to say that? why can't you just be sweet?
why can't you be sweet to a child
rapist? why can't you just love
the pedophile? no
because we have a brain in our head and
because we love the lord and we love children
don't come at us with your leftist buzzwords
just simply go to sodomite deception
dot com and you'll see why we are reacting
the way that we
are to this compromiser
ed litten
pastor shelly
where do you want to steer us next?
we still have a lot of colors
i don't think we're going to get to all of our colors
but i do want to go to another one
i think we have brother richard
on the line
and he can share some of the experiences
with the SBC
the SBC is definitely becoming very accepting
of the LGBT
whereas in the past they weren't
like you said with the JD Greer
i think we got richard on the line
can you hear us richard?
yes i can
thanks for calling in, how's it going?
oh it's going great
hello richard
hi
i'm richard
hello richard
hey brother ban
now
have you been to
a southern baptist church?
do you have some experience with this?
i have, i was raised missionary baptist
the
similar situation of
growing up in a church that was
a lot like an IFB church
becoming watered down through the years
and i got even more
watered down in college and went to a couple
of different IFB churches but the
latest one, the one that really
made me want to call, the last one i was at
i was there for
my wife and i were there for
maybe 3 years
2 or 3
before i started listening to
pastor anderson and ran
but we had an anniversary
service and
they had several past members
come and they would talk
and give their testimonies
and everything else and they
got to a point and they said well we have
one of our, probably our most
famous member
he can't join us today but he wanted to
give us a video message
so they put it up on the huge screen
and it was bill clinton
oh great!
bill clinton? the rapist!
but hey the hcsp condones
that so that's okay you have to marry
the girl if you
force her carnal, the democrat
baptist
go on
yes
so i mean it was
you know he
his speech was about as watered down as you would
expect
he hasn't darkened the door of any church in
a couple of decades probably
but i had not realized that he
was technically a member of that
church
when we went there and
oddly enough nearly everyone in
the congregation applauded when he was done
oh man
well i mean of course that's how
yeah
that doesn't surprise me
it had a good point but yeah it was
it was very watered down
he didn't finish his speech
like i did not
have sexual relations with
that woman
and hillary clinton didn't
have textual relations with those
private email servers
come on give me a pity laugh
at least
thank you
that was good enough for me
we just need a laugh track
so this was a southern baptist church
bill clinton's an active
member or like was a member
he's
technically still on the
at that time was technically still on the
rolls there because you know they don't ever
well you don't want to take that name off
just because you don't
of course
after you commit adultery in the oval office
do you still get church disciplined or are you still on the rolls
oh man
i mean how does that work
he said he didn't do it
he said he didn't do it it doesn't count
that's true
and that is
the problem with many
churches like that their church discipline just
consists of taking someone off the rolls
they're not banished from going
yeah he probably didn't show up
i mean i'm assuming you know
no he's
never been back i'm sure
that's funny
so now in this church did they
what bible version did they use
they used the new king james
okay
i never got into any of the
the other
false versions
i was misled early on on the new king
james so i kind of used it for a little while
i was okay with it
i always still preferred the king james
yeah well
you know again people get led astray by the name
new king james
it's really the new king
it's the king james in name only
because and again it claims to use
the traditional text of the new testament
the texas receptive
it claims to be translated
from the masoretic text
but in reality
it puts footnotes in there that casts
doubt on scores of scriptures
and
it deviates from
the underlying texts
when it changes the word of god
and agrees with the holman christian standard
bible in multiple places
including making words like boat
and prince more difficult
and changes matthew 714
first corithians 1 18
those salvation verses
those doctrine those verses about salvation
i should say and turns them into
works salvation including romans chapter 11
but a lot of people
get led astray by the new king james just
because of the name of it thinking oh all it does
is modernize the archaic language
when in reality it actually
changes essential doctrines of the faith
and casts doubt on many
others as well through the footnotes that tell
you that they're getting the
footnote from nesley allen text
and these other you know
corrupt manuscripts
that's right i actually
heard your sermon was it this past sunday
about that the new king
james nice was it a good
sermon or you know should people check it
it was pretty good it was pretty good
you got it you got a listener
but
i i
figure you know on the view i have the same
experience we know brother brother richard
here is at least one of those
so well that would make it bumped off of it
and starting back
hey listen hey do me a favor
but go go in there hit f5
20 more times or something all right so it looks
a little less but yeah leave a
comment or something get the algorithm going
this is
not me this is not richard this is a good
sermon
that was actually what won me over
to the king james
only position finally was
that once i started investigating
i took my king james and read along
while he was reading from the new king james
yeah right and it was
it was a night and day well it's
it's kind of it was just silly
right king james in name
only kind of i said that
in the sermon there was you could hear a pin
drop in the church like no one
laughed and i just awkwardly
said all right moving on
well i don't yeah no one really laughed
here either so no one laughed
here i got to work on my comedy maybe
sometimes when a joke doesn't land
you don't retell it
that's true
you don't retell it you just you just
realize like oh okay
it's okay i don't know there's comedians
that have made a career out of that
so yeah
cnn
terrible joke yes me and brandon
from pure words thought it was funny
so let's go brandon all right
yeah i like that tagline
it's kind of got a ring to it you maybe
it'll go viral let's go brandon
maybe you can get president of biden to
say it
so back to the southern
baptist convention i don't know how we
got off on that my bad did what
else uh do you think your
pastor was even saved at this church
that you're going to
uh that
oh i'm not going there anymore uh
he he
i i think he might have been
uh
when he would create when he would preach
on salvation type messages
what he said was generally
very good
uh he took his heart of a stand as
i've seen anybody recently from
the southern baptist convention on against
calvinism that's good
so there
there was definitely some good things
i kind of got the impression that the
church was so large that
he was under pressure to not run anyone
off yeah
uh and to keep things a little watered down
we did have some that definitely weren't
saved one of the assistant pastors
a couple years after we left
got got caught
fornicating with someone
in the church or committing adultery
with someone in the church who was married
oh man uh
which you know that's
you got that bill that bill
that bill clinton spirit apparently
yeah that's right
you know you you let one person
in and say it's okay
everybody else thinks it's okay
well when you got the president
of the country and a member
of your church that's a pretty bad
example but
bill clinton's a rapist
well
that too
there's probably other issues that he's got
and a murderer
that has nothing to do with the southern baptist convention
but thanks ben
how many conspiracy theory
claims can you make in this just to scare
a normal person away that would be great
i honestly
being from arkansas
there's not any conspiracy theories
it's mostly facts
alright that's probably true
i think there was like three women that did
a live interview
talking about how bill clinton had
basically taken advantage of them is that not true
no it is
uh yes
they'd have to all be liars for just no reason
basically i guess
broderick, aileen wellstone
and others have come out public
that doesn't mean that it's true but obviously
he doesn't have a very good track record
let's be honest
that's right
so do you assume bill clinton saved or what?
no
there's a conspiracy theory
uh
wouldn't that be something if it's like
hillary's obviously going to hell but bill
is somehow saved
he's like the lot christian or something like that
he's like ahab
and jezebel was his wife or something like that
i don't know
that would be the only explanation
that's a stretch
i'm just joking
i don't know if i have a response to that
his wife is jezebel though
we're going off the rails here
i blame richard
did you
that's fine
i guess then you didn't have really any
did he lose members when he took
a strong stand on calvinism?
i didn't know
it's such a huge church
i couldn't really tell
it was a sunday night service
so you know
what's a huge church mean?
there was
over a thousand people
i don't remember
the exact numbers
it was very large
one of the largest in the state
what i've noticed is a lot of these southern baptist churches
there's not all of them but a lot of them are giant
i mean they do have
a ton
of people in their churches
i don't want to say this
and people get the wrong
understanding but
it's possible that a great church could have a lot of people
but when you just consistently
are the largest churches
everywhere and just having tons
of people you got to kind of question
are they really preaching
what the bible says
are they really preaching on the unpopular
parts of the bible here
or are they just kind of pandering to the crowd
and i feel like there's probably
a lot of good guys
that kind of eventually wake up and they realize
i'm in this huge church with a big salary
and if i start preaching the bible
i'm going to lose all that
and it's kind of this temptation
to compromise that's something that
you feel like maybe
is prevalent or that you saw
i suspected
that of
just my limited
dealings one on one talking to the pastor
and his
sermon that was my suspicion
obviously i couldn't confirm it
but he did leave and actually go into work
for the convention rather than
taking another job as a pastor
i see
probably
i got disgusted by it
well now you're going to
ifb churches and
you're king james only
i have a great church now
yes
well praise the lord that
you're able to serve the lord where you're at
and kind of realize
that the
fruit of some of these spc churches
that they're just really just
kind of dying they're not really
you know holding the candlestick anymore
they're not really preaching a lot of good doctrine
they're just kind of
as i've heard other preachers say fun centers
you know they have a lot of events
and concerts and maybe a lot of people
but you know it's more important
to have the gospel of jesus christ
and have the word of god
than to have a party
you know i don't even
want to have fellowship
with a bunch of people that aren't saved
or don't believe the same things
or have different values
my family and my family
and so it's important to have unity and fellowship
with the word of god
as the primary
glue
that's bringing people together
and how about this
and i don't think i've asked some of our callers
but what would you say just on your own personal
emotional level like do you feel like
you're happier even going to these ifb
churches versus the spc churches
absolutely
some of my best friends
that i have i've met
in the last few years since i've started going here
well how could you
be happier when you're
around this hateful culture
exactly
they're not so palatable
we have to go soul winning once a week
it's such a
all this extra work
everybody's so mean
and racist
yeah
well thanks so much for calling in
and uh
hopefully you can find some other sermons
out there other than brother ben
that you know really you know
uh cheer you up
i'll just
yeah thanks that's right
i'll just have to come back down to steadfast again
there you go praise the lord
you need to do it we'd love to see ya
well god bless you have a good night
you too
bye
ben i'm not trying to give you too hard of a time
i'm just trying to give you a reality check
that's alright i'll take it
good
i need to listen to your sermon anyways
just uh
learn why i should hate the new king james even more
apparently i heard your morning sermon
was a little spicy too
apparently
i had a few things i needed to get off my chest
well you know
obviously when you talk about these topics
we can get a little bit
angry but you know there is a righteous anger out there
and even this topic
you know you brought up the sermon that i
preached to anybody who goes and looks for it
it's not titled southern baptist convention
it's actually titled southern
bastard convention and justify why
why would you title it that well you know it's a pretty
extreme title and
people get offended by that just even
the title alone but you know
the word bastard is found in the king james
bible and it's even in the new testament and it's
specifically about people that are not actually
saved it's about
an illegitimate birth
as it were and you know
i see that as being a lot of these fake christians
people that have been going to church but they're
not saved and especially
ones that are not going to even get
saved and they're really just
a bastard not a true
son as the bible describes in hebrews
chapter number 12 and so
it's important that we realize that there is
churches there is pastors there is
bible versions even that i would call a bastard
because they're just illegitimate
you know the homo christian standard bible
does not seem to have a legitimate birth
it takes and corrupts a lot of those
clear verses on salvation
which if you don't have
an incorruptible seed
you'd have a corruptible seed
and a corruptible seed is not going to bring forth
sons it's going to bring forth bastards
and so you know i
clearly articulated that
the southern baptist convention being birthed out of
slavery that makes them kind of a bastard
child in the sense that it's kind of an illegitimate birth
why would you want to form a convention
on the importance
of slavery? Secondly it was a
homo christian standard bible which
has a lot of perverted verses that's not
going to make a lot of saved people that's going to make a lot of bastards
you have a
doctrinal statement that literally teaches
you have to repent
meaning genuinely turn away from sins in order to
be saved that's not the gospel that's going to
create a lot of bastards and
they have a lot of preachers
like J.D. Greer, David Platt
some of these ministers
who are preaching a false gospel
and they're not going to get people saved they're bringing
in bastards and then you got
Calvinism and other doctrines that have
crept in the church you know creating more bastards
and so I think I had five
points it's kind of a quick
rendition of my sermon but
there's another point that
I brought up that you remember I think you said you
recently listened to the sermon yeah I mean no you pretty much
summed it up and you talked about the
holman christian standard you talked about the origins
of the SPC you talked about
their false daughters on salvation
you covered the whole
the whole deal as much as you
possibly could but you did mention
that a lot of the subject matter in that
message could be drawn
out into a completely different sermon
because there was so much content
because there was so much to cover
and is that what you ended up
doing or do you remember
I really haven't I think I've
mentioned the Southern Baptist a few times into the
sermons but I haven't really drawn that out I
I do think the title sounds harsh
but I think it's
appropriate given
the topic of salvation
which is really at the core
of our disagreements with them
and you know
you agree the
title's harsh right but like
is it justified after actually listening to the sermon
yeah and especially because you
don't come at it
immediately
with some of the harsher stuff
you build up to the
reason why you titled your sermon
the way that you did and I think by the end of it
anybody who goes in
skeptical as to why you would first of all use
that word to describe them will
realize where you're coming from
when it comes to the severity of the
issues that the SPC
has when it comes to salvation when it comes
to Bible version I mean what
more important issues are there
than the gospel and
the Bible and they're
wrong on both that doesn't mean that there aren't SPC
churches that are better than
others or that individuals
who go there that
there might be some saved people who go to those
churches I'm sure there are so don't
take that as me whitewashing everybody
with the same brush but again
those are the two most important issues
when they're wrong on both then
why wouldn't you refer to
them as fakes frauds why
wouldn't you refer to them the way you did in that sermon
as the southern bastard convention
exactly well and
you know I think that we could talk about this
for a whole lot longer if we really wanted
to because there's so many other issues but
I wanted to highlight some of the more important
points and I think we
definitely covered them you know salvation Bible
version issues some of the Calvinism
some of the more real liberal
theology that's kind of creeping in I mean if
you're not going to leave the church
and find a better church
based on those I don't think there would
be a deal breaker
but you know salvation is a deal breaker
the Bible version is a deal breaker and you need
to find a church that's going to stand
on the gospel and not change with the
times
and I'm really
my heart goes out to these people
because they are Baptist in name
you know I like
that we have that camaraderie of the word Baptist
but I want them to be a real Baptist not just
a name only
and I
want you to also get
the Baptist bias you know we have
this show for a reason we want you to get the right
perspective on
the word of God and allow the word
of God to dictate your feelings and emotions
not
you know what CNN is telling you not
what your parents are telling you not just
how you feel inside but what does the
Bible actually
say and
we had a couple other call-ins I don't think we're going to get to
them this evening we've got
we've got a lot of content already
but you know what you can call in
next week we're going to have a special
guest we're having
Pastor Roger
Jimenez from Verity Baptist
Church he's going to be on the show
we're going to be talking about censorship
that's going on in this world
and so we'd love for you to call in
next week email
us chat send in
messages be in the chat talk
to us I think it's going to be a
great episode Pastor Jimenez is a great
guest and
he's got a lot of experience in
being censored probably
one of the most censored preachers in
America but he's got
a great and powerful message and
so we're really honored that he would
take time out of his schedule to
be on our podcast so please do
check it out but also share
this one you know you got a loved one a family member
in the Southern Baptist Convention you might
make them a little upset
by sharing them this podcast but you know what
if you get them saved it's
probably all worth it and y'all you got
something at the end Ben you got
anything you want to share with us
before we kick before we end this? I think we
provided for people some
very
good reasons to
question at the very least
and at best leave the SBC
we talked about the fake Bible
we talked about the salvation issues we
talked about some of their false prophets we talked
about Ed Litton's compromising
and Ed Litton's doctrines
and you know that interview that he did
which was really just
grotesque honestly apologizing
for Christians and how they
view sodomites and things like that and so
if you want some more information
about this topic I would highly recommend
Pastor Shelley's sermon
The Southern Bastard Convention
you can still find it on YouTube
courtesy of Pure
Words Baptist Church
that's Pure Words Baptist Church
and I want to thank the callers as well
for participating and giving us
their testimony and the chat room
as well we had P.Wendy 1611
in there, J.S. Whoever Early
Kyler Horfrost
we've got Aziz Bello
I saw Peter James, Pillar
and Ground in there, O.S.A.S
Alex Finnaw and others
Saved By Grace a bunch of
people in the chat participated. Pastor Thompson
in the chat. I saw Pastor Aaron Thompson
post a message
Sure Foundation Baptist Church
Maria YouTube
Vancouver Washington
Thank you to Maria YouTube 100
I apologize I talked over your plug
Sure Foundation Baptist Church and where is that at?
Vancouver Washington check him out
He's actually got churches everywhere
UK
Canada
You gotta check out Pastor Thompson
He makes
you feel like he's a Texan
Not the Bible
They say everything's bigger in Texas
and Pastor Thompson will make you
feel small if you see him in person
Sure
He's got a big heart literally
and metaphorically
I love the guy
You gotta check out
even
Pastor Jimenez like I said
Pastor Jimenez next week, what a show that's gonna be
Pastor Jimenez and Pastor Thompson
couldn't be more different
physically, but you know what, they got that same spirit
Spiritually
And you know what, here's what I have to say about
next Tuesday, be there
or
be lame
I'm gonna be lame because I'm not gonna make it
so I realize how much of a hypocrite I sound
like right now, but I'll be tuning in
anyway, and so I hope
that you guys tune in
next Tuesday 8 o'clock Central
for the season finale
It's gonna be our last show for the season
We're gonna take a break
We're gonna
try to improve a few things
and we're gonna come back strong with a
second season
of The Baptist Bias
If you have ideas, you could always email them too
If there's a particular show or topic
you'd like us to cover, we'll definitely
consider it
I'm looking forward to even the next season
We've done a lot of good stuff so far
I've appreciated our fan base
for liking and sharing our sermons
or not sermons
but our podcast
and I hope that you'll continue
to share, like these, we're gonna make some clips
share the clips
and tell people
subscribe if you haven't subscribed
and if you can even check us out on
Podbean
I always like to say that one
Apple Podcast
What else we got? Spotify
and the Stitcher
radio app
The key word Baptist Bias
The key words Baptist Bias
to find us there and you'll get the high quality
audio only edition of the podcast
Alright, well that's gonna do it for us
this evening
God bless you guys for checking in
Ben, why don't you sign us out
Folks, for Pastor Shelley, this has been The Baptist
signing us off for this week's episode of the program
God bless you all
and we will talk to you guys again
very soon
Bye