Is the red heifer biblical?
Can the sprinkling ashes of a heifer truly bring healing and peace?
Or will it bring in the mark of the beast?
Why was the temple destroyed in 70 AD?
Was God mad about something?
What happened to all those Jews, by the way?
Are they still here today?
Who really lives in Jerusalem?
The sons of Abraham or the synagogue of Satan?
Perhaps you should give all your shekels to rebuild the temple just to be safe.
I mean, Genesis 12 and all.
It could be a part of history.
Who are you building that temple for?
Jews?
Jesus?
Hows?
Satan?
Even if we know what's going to happen, can we stop it at all?
Now, I know if Ben Shapiro was here, he would have already blown off his yarmulke for me
just asking questions, which is apparently anti-Semitic now, just like opposing pedophilia
is apparently anti-Semitic, or trannies, war crimes, interest, abortion, or supporting
MAGA, America First, being white, hating crime, and probably the most anti-Semitic thing anyone
could ever do is have the Baptist bias.
Thanks for everybody joining us for a special episode of the Baptist bias.
I'm not going to be the host this evening.
We're actually going to have a debate and we are actually graced by a return visitor,
Owen Schreuer from Infowars.
He's going to be joining us on the show and he's actually going to be hosting and moderating
a debate for us.
And so I'm going to kick it over to him.
I wish we were talking about your release from prison because that's really incredible
and I'm really appreciative that even after going through that, you're still fighting,
you're still going out there and hear about the truth.
We welcome back Owen Schreuer.
Thanks again for coming on the show.
How's it going?
It's going great.
I appreciate the opportunity to put on display my moderating skills and I appreciate your
trust in having me do so.
We're excited for the show.
Well, without further ado, I say we get started.
I think this is going to be a lively discussion and I'm looking forward to it.
Now I just want to lay out some rules for our participants and joining us tonight are
Byron Stinson, Adam King, Pastor Roger Jimenez and you just heard from Pastor Jonathan Shelley.
Is the Red Heifer biblical?
We're going to be getting a lot of different perspectives, maybe some disagreements, some
debate, some discussion on this tonight.
The rules are simple.
Everyone will get a five minute opening statement.
We'll then open up the floor to go from there.
I will have little to no interruption as the moderator.
I want to let the flow of this debate be natural if there is a discrepancy in time allotment.
I will step in if everybody's talking over one another and we can't hear them.
I will also step in if we need to replatform an issue or a question.
I will also do that as well, but I'd like to have little to no interruption and we will
have five minute closing statements at the end.
So I'm just going to go from the left to the right that the screen I have in front of me.
We will get five minutes. We'll start with the host of The Baptist Bias, Pastor Jonathan
Shelley, your opening statement.
Is the Red Heifer biblical? Well, I think we first have to ask the question of what
does that mean? And, you know, from my perspective, I'm not necessarily asking the question of
can you find a Red Heifer in the Bible because definitely in numbers, you do find scripture
that brings up the Red Heifer. But that doesn't mean that necessarily it's right. It doesn't
necessarily mean that that's something that we should do. Of course, the Bible contains
stories of adultery. It contains stories of murder. It contains stories of people sinning.
And of course, it contains stories of the devil going to Jesus Christ and tempting him
in the wilderness. And what's interesting about their specific exchange is that when
the devil tempted the Lord Jesus Christ, he quoted scripture. He brought up all kinds
of verses in the Bible, yet here was the problem. They were taken out of context. And of course,
many people would love to quote scripture to their own bidding, to their own destruction.
The Bible talks about certain individuals that would rest the scripture to their own
destruction. And I believe it's very clear from reading the Old and New Testament that
for anyone to perform an animal sacrifice today is certainly a rejection of the Lord
Jesus Christ. It's a rejection of the New Testament. It's very anti-biblical. It's
satanic. There's nothing in the scripture that would indicate that sacrifices should
still be going on. And it's very clear in evidence from history and fact and reality
that in 70 AD, God caused the sacrifices to stop in Jerusalem. You may ask why. People
might have a different interpretation. But it's certainly clear that they rejected their
Messiah, Messiah, the Lord Jesus Christ. And as a result of doing so, God ended up destroying
their city. He even said that one stone would not be left upon another. And so in 70 AD,
Titus came through and through the Lord, he was able to basically destroy the temple and
cause a sacrifice of disease. Jews were then scattered throughout the entire world and
of course have been intermingled with people for the last several hundred centuries. Now
I do not believe that there is anywhere in scripture that would give the right to any
individual to come back and rebuild the temple again. Whenever there was a need for a rebuilt
temple, God spoke to Ezekiel and gave him instructions. We see Ezra and Nehemiah being
given instructions by God to go back and rebuild the temple. Yet people are not being given
new prophecy. They're not be giving these testimonies from the Lord. And anyways, it
would be rejection of the Lord Jesus Christ. The children of Israel were not allowed to
return to the Holy Land for 70 years until they had repented, until they had gotten right
with God. And you have to ask yourself this question, is Israel right with God? Is Tel
Aviv really a godly place or is it actually one of the most LGBT friendly places in the
world? Is Israel, have they accepted their Messiah? Have they believed in the New Testament?
Have they believed all the writings of the prophets? Of course, when Jesus confronted
the Jews, they said that they were the sons of Abraham and Jesus didn't contest that.
But he said if he were the sons of Abraham, then they would have believed in him. If they
said they believed in Moses, they were Moses' disciple. But he said if you'd believe Moses,
you'd have believed me, for he wrote of me. But the reality is the Jews rejected the Lord
Jesus Christ. They crucified him as the Lamb of God. He was the once for all sacrifice.
Hebrews is crystal clear. Any further sacrifice is blasphemy. It's a rejection of our Messiah.
And it's not biblical whatsoever. It is a religion of antichrist. And of course, it
will help usher in the antichrist one day. So I make it abundantly clear that I do not
believe that we should ever do any sacrifices, or help anyone doing any sacrifices. To do
so would be to reject Jesus.
Okay, Pastor Shelley, thank you very much. And you leave a little time on the table.
How gracious of you. Let's go to Byron Stinson now. Byron, is the Red Heifer biblical?
Well, good morning, everybody. And thank you for having me. I'm here in Jerusalem, Israel.
We just had an experience a few days ago where Iran shot several hundred rockets at us.
We watched as they traveled about four hours through space to try to kill all the Jews
here. And so I believe that's an evil empire that wants to stop something here in the land.
They also have come out and said that they will do all they can to stop the Red Heifer
sacrifice. And I do believe for sure that we are witnessing something that God would
like the world to look at. There's purposes behind the Red Heifer, and that's why in Numbers
19, it clearly says, "Say unto Israel, bring us a Red Heifer for the ceremony." It's not
a sacrifice, by the way. It's a ceremony of purification, and you take like a pinch of
ash and put it in living water, which represents Christ. Also, the Red Heifer is read for the
blood of Christ, and everything about it, God was showing us a picture or a pattern
of Yeshua in this ceremony. The Bible is very clear in many, many places, including one
of the easiest ones for people that don't read the Bible a lot. If you can get your
Bible open and go to Micah 4, you will see that it clearly says, "In the last days,"
which is now, "the people will stream from all over the earth, and they'll come up
to see the temple of the Lord." And they will listen to him and do what he says,
and he will take over the kingdom of the earth. It won't be a kingdom of the United
States or one world government. It's going to be God's kingdom that it was promised.
Now, it's very hard for people in Christianity that have followed a spiritual
path for their entire life to understand that God is both spiritual and he's
physical. And so what what is happening by this this commandment that God gave
to be done, and he gave this commandment to the fathers of faith, the Jewish
people here in the land, what's happening is people are digging deeper into the
Old Testament, digging deeper into the prophecies, and they're seeing that it is
absolutely true that God has a plan to bring about peace in the last days,
and that there is a physical 1,000 year reign of Christ from the Temple Mountain
here in Israel. That's also true that there is homosexuality, there is lying,
there is cheating, there is stealing, there's everything that there was at the
time of Christ, and so we're still experiencing all that, and I think if you
really love the God of Abraham, which is the Father of Jesus, and it's the same
God that Jesus said, "If you could take this cup from me, this cup of suffering,
then please do that. Nevertheless, not my will, but yours be done." Okay, so if we
love the Father of Abraham, then this is a time to look and see what is going on,
what is happening. So I appreciate this moment to come and talk with you guys.
And by the way, I just want to say to everyone, I look at this more as a
discussion than a debate. There's many questions that are so deep that you have
to go a lot longer than an hour or two. So I've spent my life studying the word,
being involved in this, and I'll quickly just tell you that when I was a young
boy at 14 years old, I did hear a conversation in my bedroom while I was
reading from the book of Romans. I heard a conversation between the Father God
himself and Lucifer, and God said he was going to use me with the Jewish people,
and Lucifer said I would be a failure. I was stunned by that conversation as a
young boy. I did not tell my parents, I did not tell my school friends, and I
knew everybody would just think, "Well, Byron is crazy as can be. That didn't
happen." And probably there's some people right now saying that too, but I knew
that I heard it. So 30 years later, I still didn't know any Jews because I was
from Texas, and nothing had happened really on open doors for me to have
Jewish friends or understand more about that from a personal experience, but I
understood by that time deeply that the Jewish fathers of faith had been given
different responsibilities from the nations of the earth. We've been grafted
into the tree. My friends, there's not two trees. There's not a Jewish tree and a
Christian tree. There's one tree, and the root of the tree is the Jewish faith and
the Jewish people. Now, Christianity through the Romans and through all,
through Spanish inquisitions, has tried their best, and even the Holocaust has
tried to eradicate the Jewish people, thinking that somehow they are...
All right, I ran that five minutes. That's five minutes. I'm going to cut you off
right there. You might not want to have a debate
tonight. Let's see if that holds up or not. Let's go to our
next five minutes with Pastor Roger Jimenez.
Is the red heifer biblical? Yes, thank you very much for
having me on. I can't hear you.
Are you able to hear me? I can hear you. Can you hear me? I can put the mic
closer. All right, are you able to hear me now?
Can you hear me on? Okay, I'm being told we're good, so I'll
keep going. In regards to the red heifer sacrifice,
when it comes to what the Bible teaches about these things, I would say that
there's two arguments that could be made in
regards to that. The first is the macro argument
and then the other is the micro argument. And when it comes to the macro
argument, what I would say is that the Bible teaches, the Bible's
clear about the fact that the Old Covenant has been done away.
Should I stop? Are you able to hear me? I can hear. I don't know.
One second. Pastor Shelley says he can hear me. Yeah, sorry about that.
Are you guys able to hear me? I'm able to hear as well.
I will say as I look at the moderator board here, it looks like Pastor Jimenez is in red.
I'm not sure if that's why maybe somebody else can't hear him or if there's something that needs
to be done with our production board here. I'm being told that the audience can hear me so
should I keep going? Red like the red heifer. Well, we'd like for everybody to be able to
hear your opening statement. Yeah, one second. I'm sorry. Let me go ahead and we go ahead and
try to pause this block real quick. It's the Jews. They're cutting into my time. Can they hear
now? Adam and Byron can hear at this point. I heard him. Yeah, I got in just in time for him
to blame me for his microphone failure. Okay, Adam, you now have sound and Byron, do you have sound?
Got it. All right. Should I start over? I'm going to start you with four minutes starting now.
Sounds good. All right. When it comes to the red heifer, like I was saying, I would say there's two
arguments or two ways to look at this. There's what I would call the macro argument and then
there's the micro argument. The macro argument, in my opinion, is the biblical answer and for any
Christian that actually cares about the Bible, that's the argument they should care about.
And that argument is this, that the old covenant has been done away with and the sacrifices should
no longer be done. The Bible says in Colossians 2 14, blotting out the handwriting of ordinances
that was against us, which was contrary to us and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross.
The Bible says that the Lord Jesus Christ took the ordinances and the blotting out and he blot
them out and he nailed them to the cross. And I believe that all the Old Testament sacrifices
are symbolic of the Lord Jesus Christ and they were fulfilled in the Lord Jesus Christ. This is why
Jesus on the cross said it is finished. Now some people believe that when he said that he was
talking about the redemption process or what needed to be done for salvation but that can't
be true because he still hadn't been buried and he still hadn't resurrected. So what was he referring
to on the cross when he said it is finished? I believe he was referring to the Old Covenant
and that's why the veil was rent as well when he was on the cross in the temple.
So the answer to the question is the red heifer biblical. The answer for a New Testament believer
is no because the Old Covenant, the Levitical priesthood, the Levitical sacrifices have all
been done away with. Now obviously when you give that answer to a Jew or when you give that answer
to a Judaizer, they're probably not going to accept that as an argument. But I would say that
there's also micro arguments and there's just reasons why they're wrong about this even just
if you're just considering the Old Testament. And I would quickly just say that, for example,
the people that are promoting this red heifer are acting like this is what's really needed to be
able to establish the priesthood, to be able to establish the temple, except the fact that the
red heifer sacrifice, which it is a sacrifice, I mean the Bible says that they were to take it out
and slay it and then they're burning the whole thing. But this sacrifice was established in
Numbers 19. The Levitical priesthood was already established by the time we get to Numbers 19.
The tabernacle was already established by the time we get to Numbers 19. And as far as it being a
purification of dead bodies, there's other ways to purify dead bodies in the Old Testament as well.
So, like I said, even though we don't even need to follow the Old Covenant as New Testament
believers anymore, even on just the argument from the Old Testament, they're wrong. And it's not a
correct thing as far as how they're talking about it today and what they're believing about it today.
And it just comes down to this, that one of the things that Byron was saying was that there's
different responsibilities for the Jews. And I would say to that, "No, sir." The Bible says,
"Jesus famously said, 'I am the way, the truth, and the life. No man cometh unto the Father,
but by me.'" And that no man includes the Jews. He was talking to a bunch of Jews when he said it.
And the only way to be saved, the only way to come to the Father is through the Lord Jesus Christ.
And it's not true.
Okay, Pastor Jimenez, I'm going to stop you there. Your five minutes is up. I do imagine we will
come back on that issue if you want to hold that. So let's go to our final opening five with Adam
King. Adam King is the Red Heifer Biblical. Hello, everybody. This is Adam King, your local
neighborhood Jew found at Bandah Video. I am madly in love with the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.
I can't wait to perform the mitzvah of Paradu Ma, which is the ritual of the Red Heifer.
And yeah, it's very biblical. And I imagine we'll get into that. And I think the audience is kind
of sick of opening statements. So let's get into it, man. Let's just start the debate.
Okay. Well, I'll tell you what, then. Let's set the table like this. I'm going to ask each one of
you just directly. And I know you may have gotten into this in your opening statements.
And maybe I'll ask this in a couple ways. But Adam, I'll ask you first. You just stated it.
So yes or no, do you believe the Red Heifer sacrifice is biblical?
Yeah. So every single one of the 613 mitzvot that God gave to the Jewish people to perform
is a hok olam, an eternal decree that all of these mitzvot are to be, there's a possibility
that we could fulfill them in every single generation. It's the job of every Jew to be
passionate about these mitzvot and strive to do them. They are divided into two things,
365 of them are called mitzvot lo ta'ase, things you do not do, and then there are 248 things
called mitzvot ta'ase that you're supposed to do if presented with the opportunity to do them.
So the paradu ma is one of those mitzvot ta'ase and we haven't had the opportunity to do one in
thousands of years. There's only been nine done in all of history and a sign from God that salvation
is near is God sent 21 of them. Is that because there hasn't been a red heifer? Is that why these
have not happened? Well I imagine that there has been but somebody probably ate it in Uzbekistan
or something like that. These things pop up all over the place throughout history.
There hasn't been a faculty where Jews have had the facility on a spiritual level to even
perform the mitzvah or send out a steering committee such as what was done with Byron
to actually find these red heifers. Well I want to ask, can I ask a question? Like I was saying
because I do think that God speaks to us constantly to show us the abundance of the salvation that's
near. He sent 21 from which Byron chose five and now there are four. Okay Pastor Shelley. Well if
you if you say that there's 613 commandments, well what about Leviticus 2013? That says that
Sodomite should be put to death and you have plenty of those in Tel Aviv. If they're if they
really care about following these commandments, why aren't they following that one? Why are they
only waiting on this red heifer commandment? Well I know that Jimenez over here like went crazy over
the Pulse nightclub shooting. I saw that video and although I'm no supporter or ally of the gay
community, I still don't support the butchering of people. I believe that... But do you agree with
Leviticus 2013? Do you think it should be law? I think that the entire 613 midst vote are valid,
yeah. So why is it that the children of Israel supposedly... And first of all for one of the
for one of the prohibitions of death to be valid, the person has to be witnessed in the act by
two people. It's like you have to barge through in a door and see it happening, and there has to
probably just have to watch the parade going up and down the street. Also it says in the Talmud
that a court that would actually punish somebody by death once in 70 years was considered as if
it had possibly bought blood on its hands. It was such a rare thing that the courts would actually
sentence people to death. It has to fit specific standards, and there's a more interesting
perspective on the word "mochimut." "You will surely die." That's what it says throughout many
different prohibitions. For example, like the prohibition of breaking the Sabbath is also
"mochimut." So there's different punishments for these, and it's implied "mochimut" that there is
a spiritual death that is incurred just as Adam had his death from eating from the tree of knowledge
of good and evil. So the punishment, like you're mentioning, and it's, I believe, Leviticus 22,
18. The prohibition of homosexuality is right above the prohibition of bestiality in the...
2013, and then it goes a few verses below as the bestiality is an ex-verse.
So in 22, 18 is where it places it right above bestiality. So the Torah is inferring to...
I think you're referring to chapter 18. ...how it feels about this. But I think it's
interesting that your approach to "Is the Red Heifer valuable?" is like, "Should we go put to
death people?" It shows where your head's at. Well, I'm just saying, if you're going to follow
the commandments and you have the opportunity to follow those right now, why are they not following
that commandment right now if they are so concerned with all of the commandments? I mean,
are you offering a Passover lamb on Passover? That's the commandment that you want the Jews
to do and then you'll be like based, okay, I'll let them do the Red Heifer now. Like, what are you
trying to say? Well, no, in America, Leviticus 20 13 is the law of the land. I have, I have with
me the laws of Connecticut of 1673 and they had the the law of the death penalty for sodomy in
America for hundreds of years, but we never sacrifice Red Heifers because of course the
ceremonial part of the law was done away for Christians. Christians believe that Jesus
Christ fulfilled the law, but you're claiming to believe the Old Testament. I'm wondering
why you're not sacrificing Passover lambs. I'm wondering why you're not observing the
death penalty statutes. I'd like to pause this for a second and we can get more into
the fundamentalist issues. I'd like to open the floor for Byron and Roger here quickly. Byron,
would you like to weigh in? Sure, and I believe, would you ask the question that I'm supposed to
answer one more time, Owen? Well, we're getting into, I guess, consistency of fundamentalist
beliefs, why a red heifer gets sacrificed, and yet other people may say arbitrary rules from the
Old Testament are not followed with such fundamentalist values. If that's one way to
put it, that's the way I'm putting it. If I have that wrong pastor, he seems to be shaking his head.
But I thought you said the question was going to be, is the red heifer biblical? I thought that
was the question that you said you wanted to solve. I'll tell you what, we're just discussing things
openly here. And if you don't want to weigh in on what they're talking about, then I'll go to Pastor
Jimenez. And would you like to? I will absolutely weigh in on what they're talking about.
And I think Pastor Shelley is dead on. I mean, the Bible is clear about the fact that in the
Old Testament, the laws were divided into two sections. You had the moral laws or the criminal
type laws, and then you had the ceremonial ritual laws. Those are referred to as ordinances.
And the ceremonial ritual laws have been done away with. Even as New Testament believers,
we refer to baptism and the Lord's Supper as ordinance because of the fact that they are
symbolic. They are not. They are religious rituals. And what Pastor Shelley is saying
is if you're so interested in following all the laws in the Old Testament, then why not
Leviticus 20 13? If a man also lie with mankind as a life with a woman, both of them have committed
abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them. See, I actually
love God and I love the Bible and I'm not ashamed of any part of scripture. I love Leviticus 20 13
as much as I love John 3 16. But you have these guys getting up here more than any other law,
to be honest with you. But that's another thing. Well, why do you have to criticize any part of
the scripture? I thought you said you love the God of the Bible. So the fact that you're even
casting shade on it, you know, you're the one casting shade. I never cast shade on it, but I
just think it's very peculiar that we're in a weird debate that's like, "Oh, you want to do the red
heifer, then you have to also be cool with killing all the gays." And I get you because I know where
you're coming from. I saw all your stuff. Why is that peculiar? Why is that peculiar? It's
in the Old Testament. It's a law of God. It was bizarre to say the least. I'm not here to
support any... I'm not here to be an advocate, but I'm also not here to be a supporter of bloodshed.
And I know that you've made public statements before praising the Muslim murderer of the Pulse
nightclub shooting, those 53 people that were killed. And I'm saying that's because I believe
homosexuals are pedophiles or anything like that, but just as like human life, like I wouldn't want
like people to feel that like... Adam, did you celebrate when Hamas was killed? Did you celebrate
when Hamas is destroyed? Like their passion to serve and do the Mitzvot, like they want to do
the most violent ones. You know what I'm saying? Like there's so many degrees... Well, why do you
have a problem with doing all of them? Why are you against any of them? I don't have a problem with
any of them. I'm saying though that like if somebody's going to be punished for sodomy with
the death penalty, it has to be done by a court. So now we're done with that. Now we're done with
that. There's a Jewish court that sentences somebody to death for the death for sodomy
because of the Torah. You know, that's a whole nother story, right? No one's disagreeing with
that. Obviously the death penalty should be carried out by the government. And before us
is are we going to purify the world from death and heal the sick with this ancient ritual that's
contained in the Bible and that was prophesied would happen before the Messiah returns. Adam,
what would you like? Are you equating this to a Christian that only celebrates on Christmas or
Easter? Are you saying it's kind of like that for the Jewish population that this is just something
that they're doing it maybe that it's not even necessarily a fundamental belief? You're talking
about the Red Heifer? Yes. The Red Heifer is absolutely a fundamental belief. But I'm saying
most Catholics, most Christians only go to church on Easter and Christmas. Are you equating that
basically with the Red Heifer? I would say more like the ADL community. Those are the ones that
are like the Christians who only show up on Christmas. There are a large component of Jews
who literally look for every single opportunity to perform a mitzvah. There are Jews that are
going to want to do the Leviticus 2013. There's a lot of things. That has to be done by a court.
That can't be done by an individual person like how you praised Jimenez. How you praised the
Muslim shooter at the nightclub. These mitzvahs are not supposed to be taken into our own hands.
Some of them are administered. All right. Pausing, Adam. Adam, I'm pausing you real quick.
I'm going to let Asher Jimenez speak. And then it looks like Byron needs to talk next to you.
Thank you very much. The truth is this, that saying when I stood up in 2016 and preached
that sermon, all I said was that people were bending over backwards to act sympathetic about
these 50 homosexuals being killed. And I just said that homosexuals are filthy. They're pedophiles.
That's what the Bible teaches. Historically, that's what we find all throughout history.
And I wasn't sorry that they were dead. I didn't say that I should do it or anybody else should do
it. All we've ever taught from the Bible is that the government should do it. If we lived in a
righteous government that actually followed the laws of the Bible, that's what they would do.
So you're creating these strawman arguments. I'd rather not stick on this. I want to go to Byron
now. So Pastor Jimenez, I appreciate the fact that you want to follow the laws of the Bible.
And I do too. And of course, the question that we started this off with from Owen is the Numbers 19
Red Heifer ceremony, is that biblical? And the question I would say to you is yes,
it's obviously very biblical. And the reason we can know that is not because of Christianity.
The reason we can know that is because the Jewish fathers of faith were tasked by God to keep the
Torah and the writings for us so that we would have them. Without that, without that responsibility
and without having done that wonderfully for the world, there would be no Bible for you,
Pastor Humanus, to read or for you, Pastor Shelly, to know what it was God said. This
was the Jewish fathers of faith that were tasked with that. So let's go back to where in the heck
did Numbers 19 come from in this Red Heifer ceremony? God revealed a pattern that's from the heaven
itself. He revealed it to Moses in the wilderness right after coming out of slavery in Egypt and he
was bringing his people into freedom in the wilderness. And he said it has to be done exactly
like this because God had a plan and has a plan to give redemption to the entire world through his
word. But all of it has to work together. Now I want to jump over into the book of Acts. In the
book of Acts we have two groups of people. We have Jewish people, Jewish believers in Jerusalem
that Peter and the other disciples are with and they're seeing lots of people, Jewish people,
coming to the belief in Yeshua as their Messiah. And we have Paul working in the nations and we
see them coming to faith in Yeshua. And when Paul and Peter get together, Peter and the other
disciples say, and I'm paraphrasing paraphrasing so it's easy to understand, but what they say to
him is everything is good except the the apostles that are here are still going and making their
sac, their daily sacrifices. They're still doing their temple worship. We're still doing all of
that and people here are starting to say that you've said that that Christ has done away with all of
that and what we need to do you believe that Jesus died on the cross right and so what what
they asked him to do was to go to the temple and take a nazarite vow to show that for the
fathers of faith those duties had not expired and by the way in book of romans it clearly Jesus says
and paul shows us that Jesus gave his life for us on the cross so that all of this might be fulfilled
there is two duties the jewish nation is unlike the rest of the nations of the earth you see
the apostles put a very small burden upon the church in the world they did not expect us to
keep the words of the bible perfectly or they would have said here's one of the requirements
every one of your children at age 14 will will memorize a a verse of the bible and the reason
that you do that with your children and the jewish people still do it to this day is so that the bible
cannot be extinguished you can burn the bible all you want but inside the children of the jewish
people is the bible every child has a portion and when you put the children together you have the
entire bible but we were not tasked with that and that's why we have a bible and in the bible it
has a ceremony of numbers 19 and i just want i'll finish here and just say listen the fathers of
faith understand it is their responsibility to do this ceremony of cleansing it is one cow every day
over 900 million cows are slaughtered for beef and for eating and our fathers of faith would
like to do a ceremony that they have the responsibility for i don't have to do it
you don't have to do it it's not your job you're a gentile you have far less responsibility if you
want to worship god on sunday rather than worship him on the sabbath which is commanded you can do
that if you want to go to god on easter instead of a Passover then you can do that if you want to
just break all those laws through the blood of jesus christ if you truly love him and trust him
and repent of sin and turn from those things and try to live righteously god has you and he's going
to take care of you you're not required to do this but the father can we answer that's not even true
the bible says salvation i'd like to hear from pastor shelly i want to know byron you believe
that jesus died on the cross yes you believe that the veil was rent whenever he died i believe he
died on Passover exactly and it was a it was that feast was given to moses in the wilderness
but did the veil did the veil rent do you believe that the veil rent and the veil was rent showing
that we have access through the blood of jesus christ straight to the father yes i do so if the
veil is rent does that not show that the old covenant has been fulfilled and it's no longer
in effect no it doesn't show that it's no longer in effect you see things that the veil is supposed
to separate the high priest going into the altar is that correct look if if you say this one is
not an effect and you can't jump over and say well but i think this one over here is you can't
cherry pick it i'm not cherry thinking even for the good yes you are there's the bible says the
bible says for the priesthood being changed there's also a change of the law in hebrews
the bible says for the priesthood being changed there's also a change of the law so i don't think
that you know murder is now all of a sudden okay because jesus died on the cross neither did any
of the christians that founded our country i mean they clearly labeled and modeled our laws after
the word of god i mean you can see the verse references in our law specifically so but all
of the sacrifices and i agree with you all the sacrifices picture jesus are you familiar with
the covenant to abraham are you familiar with the covenant of abraham at all yes the covenant
abraham was to jesus christ in galatians chapter three the bible makes it clear that the seed of
abraham was to abraham and to his seed which is jesus christ what was the subject of the covenant
if you know it what was the subject of the covenant of abraham the the promises and the
inheritance was given to abraham and to his seed and in galatians chapter number three says and
not into seeds as of many but as of one which is christ and so the inheritance was given to christ
and those who believe in christ who become the children of abraham but it makes it clear that
the law which came 430 years after could not disannul so it's very clear that the
law did not give inheritance to a physical nation of jews but rather that is the inheritance is
given to abraham and jesus what is this what do you mean by when you say the law was 430 years
what what are you referencing the law in galatians chapter number three the bible tells us that the
children of israel were in egypt for 430 years they were evil and treated for 430 years as soon
as they came out of egypt god gave the law to moses on mount cyanide that's the law so the bible
saying that the covenant was confirmed when jacob and jews were not in egypt for 430 years yes they
were the bible from the time of abraham to the time of the leaving of egypt was actually 400 years
there were 210 years you're wrong you're wrong on the timeline there were 210 years Jewish calendar's
wrong the year is 5784 since the expulsion of the garden of eden it's 6300 the year is 5784
no since the expulsion of eden why is that wrong well if you if you add what year is it when did
we leave eden what year is it shelly it's 6308 approximately is what i believe okay no so why
do you say that it's 2024 then why if you're so in love with jesus why don't you say it's the year
six thousand three hundred and something well it doesn't matter what i believe personally because
the world also like the messianic covenant is really mirroring and it always has been the six
days of creation entering into a thousand years of peace and shabbat according to you that's why
jews keep changing the calendar you think we're 300 years past the salvation according to that
calendar love six numbers like six million just keeps talking over adam that's i know i was
talking he asked me a question i answered it he was talking and you were interrupting go ahead
well if nobody talks can i jump in for a second because i just want to make it clear
that the argument that's being made here is that the jews have like their own separate line
but that's just not biblical that's not what the bible teaches that's not what the new testament
teaches the bible is clear in ephesians 2 15 it says having abolished in his flesh the enmity even
the law of commandments contained in ordinances to make in himself of twain referring to the
gentiles the circumcision the the uncircumcision and then israel the circumcision he says to make
of himself of twain one new man so making peace and that he might reconcile both unto god in one
body by the cross having slain the enmity thereby the bible is clear about the fact that there is
neither jew nor greek there is neither bond or free there is neither male nor female for you're
all one in christ jesus so you can go ahead and say that they need to follow these sacrifices
because of the old covenant but the old the bible is the new testament is clear that the
old covenant has been done away with and that's not what it says and you're wrong you're just
wrong about we don't here's the thing jimenez zero god created the world for the purpose
of choosing him while we have free will so you don't have to choose to love god but you get the
opportunity in this life to choose to devote yourself and to love god and to choose god
so we don't have to do these things like the red heifer or the mitzvah we get to do them
they're privileges they are they are uh gifts from god that he said to us if presented with this
opportunity do it and if present okay let me add up let me ask you a question don't do it i have
a question for adams i think we're going around in circles just saying the same thing but i have a
question for you because you you mentioned this you started to say it and then you got sidetracked
but so what do you think is going to happen when this red heifer is sacrificed or you know the
ceremony i think that i think that people will wake up out of their coffins sight will be given
back to the blind the cripple will walk again a miraculous healing will protrude the entire earth
and death will lose its grip on humanity the purpose of the ceremony is to create this
purification by which um there's this concept called tumor and tahara states of purity and
states of impurity and these are real if you practice tumor and tahara you can actually see it
but it requires practicing it to actually begin to actually see it so when you i practice tumor and
tahara in my life it involves the myths the mitzvah of the mikvah it involves family purity
it involves a a plethora of different opportunities and mitzvah that we can engage in
but one of those mitzvahs of tahara is to purify the physical impediment of death so anybody who
touches a dead body receives this impediment of death it's as if their soul is like hardwired to
remembering the coldness of the body the absence of the soul and the flesh and death and through
that mortality creeps into us in our daily life and it is one of the forms of tumor that is
contagious spreads and so because of its spreading there needs to be a rectification for that process
which the bible gives as the paroduma the red heifer so by performing this ritual people who
get the sprinkle on them they become purified and they're detached from the grip of death
and can go into the world with that consciousness that is removed from the consciousness of death
it makes people liberated so that they can they can see god so that they're not blocked by the
unconsciousness of death may i and may i respond to that i'd like to give a i'd like to give a
comment to that and then i have a follow-up question to what you just said um here's my
comment first of all it's just insane to me that you would say that people are going to wake up
out of their comas the blind will see the lame will walk or whatever uh it's crazy because the
red heifer sacrifice literally is symbolic of the lord jesus christ it's a picture of the lord jesus
christ and those things that you're talking about actually already happened the blame the the blind
saw the lame walk the dead were raised that all happened in the ministry of the lord jesus christ
well here's the question here's the question let me ask the question do you know anybody
blind or crippled like wouldn't you want to help them if you could well here's here's the all right
byron go ahead okay so the the question that i have back to pastor humanus is uh do you want
the problem that we all have let me say this first the problem that the church has is everything
became hyper spiritualized whenever the jewish people were taken into captivity and everything
became little halos around our head and everything was you know die and go to heaven so the question
i have for you pastor uh do you believe one that the covenant of abraham was to give the land
to the descendants of abraham which is exactly what the covenant says it's about jesus the father
god told abraham if you'll go to this land you'll be given this land and that hasn't happened yet
but we're in the middle of watching a war over that right now and do you believe that the land
the covenant of abraham if it's no good if god doesn't do it do you believe the covenant of
jesus will still be fulfilled because i don't if we don't take the land if the first covenant
is not good the second covenant is not good for me but i'd like to know that and i would like to
know that do you believe there if there is a thousand year millennial reign physical on earth
people being raised from the dead people being healed these things do you believe that there is
written in the word that there will come a physical one thousand year reign of christ from the temple
mountain here in jerusalem over the entire earth do you believe that okay so to answer your question
you know first of all you you said that they haven't received the land and that that needs to
happen i don't know did you miss the book of joshua where the children of israel conquered the land
and then we have all these stories in the bible actually i actually do it we had a project i did
here to fight we found the actual stones of joshua the problem was not joshua the problem was some of
the other tribes did not complete their mission and that's very clear that joshua was disappointed
and then they got weak and wanted to appease rather than take the land you asked me to answer
the question i'm trying to answer the question for you i'm just saying you said that they haven't
they haven't conquered no i'm i'm just saying that in the old the whole old testament is about
the children of israel being in the land the whole book of judges they're in the land and they are
captive when they transgress against god as far as the covenant of abraham i mean pastor shelly
already brought it up but i think you might have missed it so let me just read it to you
galatians 3 16 the bible says now to abraham and his seed were the promises made he saith not and
to seeds plural as of many like all the descendants the jews or the nation of israel he says but as of
one and to thy seed which is christ so the entire abrahamic covenant was about the lord jesus christ
in fact the entire old testament is about the lord jesus christ the bible says that the prophets i
just read to you the a verse from the bible and you're going to tell me it's not true i literally
just read a verse from the bible well that's take this that's ridiculous you brought up johnny i just
want to understand do you all even believe the bible can you just get a simple answer like more
than you do okay but adam i know adam's not a verse but i know that adam's not the end we don't
just believe uh pick little verses we believe the entire bible and so right but i think that you and
adam are a little different here brought up joshua when joshua comes to the land he's commanded by
god to go directly up onto mount eval mount garrison and there to build an altar so that
in the future people will see joshua's altar and at the altar half the people said if you keep the
covenant and the laws of god you will inherit this land and you'll be prosperous in this land but
if then in the second half but if they broke the commandments he would take them out of the land
let me finish please if you turn away from the law then you will be exiled out of the land
but for the glory of god in ezekiel 36 god promises that he's going to bring the children
of israel from the nations of the earth and reestablish them back in the land which was done
let them rebuild their cities on the ancient ruins which is done and now we're coming to a time
when the land is going to come under the hand of the jewish people for fulfillment of the first
covenant and for the fulfillment of the covenant of the blood of jesus christ for the entire world
and this is we want the entire world studying their bibles we want the entire world blessed
by this truth and we we have got to look and the question again is do you believe there's going to
come a thousand-year millennial reign where there's a jewish king named yeshua raised from the temple
mountain bringing the governments of the world into his kingdom and there's a kingdom of peace
after six thousand years of man's governments that fall all yes his name is jesus but i want to i want
to make sure i understand this is adam do you believe adam do you believe in the old testament
yes or no just a simple yes or no i don't like calling it the old testament it's the torah yeah
i believe in well i just want to read a verse and ask your opinion because in exodus chapter 12
verse 40 the bible says now the sojourning of the children of israel who dwelt in egypt was
430 years so in exodus chapter 12 verse 40 the torah specifically says the children of israel
were in the land for 430 years you told me that that was not true the chronology is from abraham
to the leaving of egypt because redemption can happen abraham didn't go to egypt redemption can
happen if you'd let me answer your question you posed a great question pastor so um redemption
can happen in two forms the ito in its time or achishena brought in early so the exile of egypt
when the jews descended into egypt was actually brought short and it was only 210 years of slavery
in egypt before we left things got very bad very quickly in egypt um and that's why they were
brought out that's why they were brought out prior and that teaches us about the redemption
because redemption of the final rectification of the sin of adam eating the tree which is supposed
to happen at 6 000 years which means that every human being alive will no longer die anymore
we can get into that death it doesn't sound like you believe because the action i'm in the middle
of speaking explains it i'm in the middle of speaking go ahead so please so um so just like
that we can bring the redemption early than the year 6000 it's 5784 now and so the reason why god
brought the redemption of the jews early from egypt was because of that so um that's where that
number 430 comes from but the next verse 41 even says this and it came to pass at the end of the
430 years even the self-same day it came to pass that all the hosts of the lord went out from the
land of egypt 430 years from something called the brit benefitaring it's the when abraham does this
covenant where he cuts the animals in half so the leaving of egypt happened 430 years to the day
of abraham walking through the doing this really weird ritual that he was
abraham wasn't in egypt when he performed that sacrifice in genesis no he was in the land of
israel but the but the 430 years started you just don't believe those verses yeah that's what it
that's what we that's what the torah teaches us is that abraham from the brit bentham tarion was 430
years to the leaving of egypt what would change your mind on that verse this is just like something
like it's such a small verse but nothing would i believe what i'm taught i believe that that this
is this was the beginning of the descending into egypt so when it comes to how you determine if
something's right or wrong you just you just always accept what you're well i mean there's
like books upon books upon books written about this incident and so like we could spend the entire
duration of this debate focused on this one single line if you'd like i'm happy to i have i have
books on my desk i got adam i'd like to stop it right here we could like go into it if you want
okay okay all right you have a lot of books all right i'd like to ask you i'd like to ask a
question because i think maybe the audience might want an understanding of this too if you're a
believer in the old testament or the torah then then where and i would ask this to byron first
because i think he leaned into this a little more what do you believe from the new testament
or what do you not believe from the new testament i believe all of it from the new testament i just
think that there's been a lot of misunderstanding in the new testament because we were cut away from
the fathers of faith and and we followed a roman theology that led to replacement theology which
runs deep throughout christianity and we went totally spiritual where we no longer were looking
forward to a thousand-year millennial reign of christ but we all of a sudden would just die
and go to heaven which is not biblical and it's not biblical in the in the new testament either
jesus told us to pray that his that to pray that to that his that the father's will would be done
on earth that his kingdom would come he's talking about a thousand year millennial reign of the
kingdom of christ himself that that would come and there would be peace on earth this is what
we're all supposed to be praying for and one of the things that brings that about is first off
and i'm going to get right into it here the first off we have to start moving towards building god's
temple okay god's temple comes first and then we see an antichrist who has to be he's exposed
because just what adam's saying all of a sudden these things that were spiritually true in christ
that we've already experienced as christians start becoming physically true on the earth
the the world starts going wow this is the god of abraham we're about to see that the way rockets
will get shot out of the sky it's so strong god's hand of protection is about to be revealed to the
world and so this temple that by the way most people don't understand it's not there your
opening was very confusing but the temple is not a place for jews alone it is for the entire world
to come to a house of prayer and to come together and to love each other just as christ would have
us do okay muslims can come and pray there jews can pray there buddhas can pray there mormons can
pray there in the old testament they would have never allowed a gentile a gentile or heathen to
just walk into the temple that that's not true they actually you don't see you take that from
what you learned in rome that's why they wanted to kill paul's because they thought he brought
a gentile and you should tell him about the holiday of stucco byron byron you should tell
him about the holiday of stucco because he doesn't think that gentiles are welcome in the temple but
the holiday of stucco which is a biblical commandment involves the honoring of every
single nation on the earth that an atonement sacrifice happens for every single nation on
the earth and actually this was a time of great peace during the times of king solomon he would
use this opportunity to negotiate peace between warring nations and it's the only time in human
history that not a nation lifted up a sword against another nation in the in the entire uh 40 year
reign of king solomon so i'd like to let pastor Jimenez he hasn't had the mic for a while um and
he looks like he has something to say yeah i'd like to ask Byron if he believes the new testament
and if he's a believer on the lord jesus christ just two questions one do you believe that jesus
is god and number two do you believe you don't believe jesus god all right well you're not even
- Jesus is the only, Jesus is, I do believe the New Testament.
- May I finish what I was gonna say?
- Please.
- Hey, I'm a little older than you, God.
- I'm a little older, so please let me answer
one question at a time.
I know a lot of people ask six questions,
they're not supposed to answer them all,
but let me answer, you asked me,
do I believe that the New Testament is the word of God?
Yes, I do.
Do I believe that Jesus is God?
No, I don't believe that Jesus became God.
I believe Jesus is the only begotten Son,
and that He has gone now to sit next to Father God.
I believe that Jesus is part of the fulfillment of God,
and I believe the Holy Spirit
is part of the fulfillment of God.
And I believe the word of God is a part of God.
And all of it together represents who God the Father is,
who created all things,
and who is watching this debate right now,
and going to serve us all and take care of us
that love Him and honor Him.
But He gave all of this for purposes.
He didn't do it for it to be done away with.
He did all this as a pattern from heaven
so that we would desire to follow that pattern.
So that's what I believe.
I believe, yeah, He's the only begotten Son of God.
- Okay, well, here's my next question,
but I'd like to just comment on that
'cause I wanna be clear for the audience
that New Testament Christianity does not believe that.
New Testament Christians believe that Jesus is God.
But here's my next question for you.
- That's a fallacy, that's terrible.
Do you believe the New Testament in the Bible
when Jesus said, he said this twice in the Book of Revelation,
but in Revelation 3.9 he says,
let me read Revelation 2.9.
"I know thy works and tribulation and poverty,
"but thou art rich," of course this is Jesus speaking
to the seven churches in Asia.
He says, "And I know the blasphemy of them
"which say they are Jews and are not,
"but are the synagogue of Satan."
I mean, do you believe that verse in the New Testament?
So, a couple of questions there.
The first one is, if you believe that Jesus has become God,
I guess that would mean the same thing
you're saying about all of this,
that God-- - I don't believe
Jesus has become God, I believe Jesus is God.
- Okay, so if he's God, then he had to become God.
- I'd like to ask a question when you're done, Byron,
if you don't mind, go ahead.
- So, he's either God or he's the only begotten son of God,
okay, so he's not both, is what I believe.
If you can replace God,
just like you can replace the scriptures,
if you could say they're done way with me,
why even have them just, you know,
take every one of those and just toss them in the trash can
because now Jesus is God and the New Testament's
all that matters.
But the truth is, what God wrote from the beginning,
every word is to the salvation and the redemption of us,
including these things that have the temple.
Now, Adam, go ahead, please.
- Well, hold on a second.
We should be able to respond to that
because you're just absolutely wrong about that.
- I'm just letting Adam finish the thought
and then y'all respond, okay?
Just let Adam, he has to finish the thought.
- I just don't want to tangent away
from this whole debate part about is Jesus God or not?
'Cause I got something poignant to say,
but if Jimenez wants to speak, he could speak.
- Well, I just think that it's--
- Make sure you come back and let me ask you this question.
- Absolutely.
The audience should know
if they actually care what the Bible says.
The Bible says in John 1:1,
"In the beginning was the word, the word was with God,
the word was God." And then it goes on
and talk about how he created,
the same was in the beginning with God,
all things were made by him,
without him was not anything made that was made.
And then in verse 14, the Bible says,
"And the word was made flesh and dwelt among us,
and we beheld his glory,
the glory as of the only begotten of the father,
full of grace and truth."
So the statement that you made
that he can neither be God or be the son of God,
but he can't be both is just not what the Bible teaches
because the Bible teaches that he is the word,
the word was with God, the word was God,
the word was made flesh.
This is the biblical teaching on the Trinity
that God exists in three persons,
God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit.
I just want you to go ahead and say whatever you want.
- I'd like to give Adam a brief statement
and I'd like to move this back to the red heifer,
but Adam, a brief statement.
- I appreciate that.
This whole concept is, is Jesus God or not?
Like this concept of like understanding the Trinity
in order to understand if Jesus is God
or the son of God or all this stuff,
this to me is like extremely an esoteric discussion
that becomes taken more philosophically
out of the realm of textual, out of the text.
Now I'm no scholar of the New Testament.
I am a biblical scholar of the Torah,
but I am no scholar of the New Testament.
So if I say something that is out of context
or a little bit strange, please understand
that it's coming from that true... like I'm not a Christian.
I don't believe in that. But I have read things.
And one thing that I've read is when Matthew...
In Matthew, when Jesus is on the cross,
He says, "Father, you have forsaken me."
So if He's God, like who's He talking to when He says, "Father"?
And I get it. Then you get into this esoteric thing
where you've got to say, "Oh, the Father and the Son
and the Holy Ghost and the Trinity, Trinity, Trinity."
And it's like in order to accept that,
it's like you have to really kind of move away
from the text and not be so literal on the text.
- Maybe we wind back up here
because I do think there might be a curiosity
between the differences with Byron
believing in the New Testament, Adam not.
So maybe we end up back there.
- Yeah, and I'd like to say one other thing
on top of that if you don't mind, Owen.
- Make it quick.
- Super, super quick, right?
So if you guys believe that Jesus is the God of Abraham,
Isaac, and Jacob, which you said,
like why do you have any problem with me
worshiping the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob
by the name that he told us
and doing the things that the God of Abraham,
Isaac, and Jacob told us the Jews to do?
Why would you have any problem with that
if you think that Jesus is the God of Abraham?
- I want to, I'm sorry, but I don't want them to answer that.
I'd like to re-steer this back to the Red Heifer, okay?
If you guys don't mind.
Let's steer this back to the topic at hand.
I want to put another question out there
and I want to really try to focus
the rest of this conversation on the Red Heifer.
So if I get a little more interruptive here,
it's only to bring this back to the topic at hand.
Pastor Shelley, if this Red Heifer sacrifice,
and I believe it's supposed to happen April 22nd,
I don't know if that's the wrong date.
Somebody can correct me,
but I think April 22nd is supposed to be the date.
April 22nd is Passover,
and you can't even do the ceremony on Passover.
So this is just like some internet panic
that's running around.
Is there a date?
Promoted by Stupid Peters.
Is there a date?
I mean, I hope it happens today, but there's no date.
No, there's no date set.
So there is no date.
Okay, so there's no date set.
So Pastor Shelley, if the Red Heifer sacrifice happens
whenever, 22nd, 28th, next year,
is this of any concern to you?
Do you think it's just a worthless exercise,
or do you think that this has negative biblical implications?
Yeah, I'd like to comment in reference
to even something that Adam brought up earlier,
'cause he was asked what would happen
with the Red Heifer sacrifice if it was performed,
and he brought up the idea of people walking,
or coming out of a coma, or miracles, or healings,
things like that.
Well, the Bible says in 2 Thessalonians,
chapter number two, verse nine, about the antichrist.
It says, "Who's coming is after the working of Satan
with all power and signs and lying wonders."
So in the Exodus, when the children of Israel
were going to leave Egypt,
the magicians of Pharaoh actually performed miracles.
And so I honestly would not even be surprised
if Adam was absolutely correct,
that they performed these red heifer sacrifices,
and they start performing the daily sacrifice,
and that there are these lying signs and wonders,
and that it's really just the power of the devil
trying to convince people to believe in the antichrist.
The Bible even says that God is gonna send strong delusion
onto the earth that people should believe a lie.
And it's very clear that, you know,
this is gonna usher in the antichrist.
When these things are happening,
when there is a temple, when there's the sacrifices,
the antichrist is going to stop these sacrifices eventually,
and he's gonna die.
He's going to come back to life three days later,
and he's gonna declare himself God,
and people like Adam, and people like Byron
are going to actually worship him, think that he's Jesus,
but the Bible says this is another Jesus,
this is a antichrist,
and they'll probably get the mark of the beast, honestly,
but everyone that gets the mark of the beast
will be thrown into the lake of fire.
And here's the thing,
the only way to not be deceived by the antichrist for sure
is to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and to get saved.
Salvation's a free gift by faith,
and the Bible makes it clear
that God was manifest in the flesh.
These things are not esoteric.
In Genesis chapter one, the Bible says,
"Let us make man in our image after our likeness."
That's plural because God is a Trinity,
the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
He always has been, always will be.
- Pastor Shelley, I wanna bring this back to the Red Heifer.
I wanna bring this to Adam now.
Adam, do people have to actually receive the ashes
of the Red Heifer to experience what you're talking about?
- So yes, well, here's the thing.
There will be miracles that accompany this,
just like after 2000 years, 21 of them God sent.
So he didn't just send one, all you need is one,
but God sent 21, which is three times seven,
a very powerful number, 777 is 21.
So, you know, why did God send so many?
If not, because that's what God does.
You know, at the, there's in the,
we're about to have Passover and in the Passover Seder,
we talk about the many miracles.
There was the 10 plagues of Egypt,
but there were 250 miracles that happened
accompanying the 10 plagues that we talk about in,
but when God comes, he comes with pizazz.
You know, he doesn't do things lightly.
He does things very revealed so that the most ignorant
and bleak among us can actually witness
and have a fair shot at the same.
- But let's get back to the red heifer,
'cause you mentioned this earlier,
you mentioned this earlier.
If there's a red heifer in Uzbekistan,
if there's a red heifer in Uzbekistan 10 years ago
that somebody slaughters and eats,
it means nothing though?
- No, it means nothing.
You have to mix it with something called Mayim Chaim
and cedarwood and you have to put the thing together.
It has to be prepared in a specific way.
- Very important part of this.
Okay, okay, understood.
There's lots of other things.
- It has to be prepared by the priesthood.
- Byron, now when we talk about getting the red heifer,
it has to be unblemished, correct?
- Absolutely, and that's the biggest problem.
You know, one, they've been looking,
the fathers of faith have been trying to get the red heifer
from right here in the land of Israel,
but you have to remember the tribe that came back to Israel
is the tribe of Judah.
And when they read carefully what it says,
that it says, "Say unto Israel, bring us a red heifer."
So if you're familiar with the Bible, Pastor Manus,
I know you know that Israel were the tribes to the north
that got separated from the tribe of Judah,
and at 720 BC, they were scattered
into all the nations of the earth.
There is a promise of God to reunite Judah
with the tribes of the nations,
and this is why I believe God's Spirit
has gone out across the world
to touch the hearts of Christians worldwide
so that in the last days,
we'll reunite with our fathers of faith.
This is the plan of God, okay?
So this red heifer is a focal point
that is allowing all of us to discuss these things,
and as we discuss them,
we should find out lots more about each other,
and that's good.
If we can find out more about each other,
then love can conquer the things that we don't understand.
So I think that's--
- How are you able to breed the red heifers?
- I'm sorry, say that again.
- How are we able to breed the red heifers?
- So when they reached out to me,
they reached out to Israel and the nations,
and they said, "Byron, we believe
"that you're from the tribe of Israel,
"just been scattered in the nations.
"Would you hunt for a red heifer?"
And representing Israel,
it wasn't me, it was to represent Israel.
So I put together a team.
We went out, we searched all over the United States.
We did a lot of work, and it was not easy.
We inspected cow after cow after cow, herd after herd.
And in the end, what we found, there was two herds.
One is beautiful red Seneca trutus down by Houston, Texas.
And the other is a herd of red angus.
And those red angus, the rancher, his name is Ty Davenport.
And Ty had been raising, he loved the Bible
and he loved the scripture of Numbers 19.
So when he started his herd back in the 1990s,
he got the reddest of red cows and the reddest of bulls.
So when we got to his ranch
and he was willing to participate,
what you have to do to get a red heifer that's not blemished,
you have to get to it right when it's born.
Because what happens in ranching
is you immediately put a tag in its ear,
you put a hole through its ear.
When it has a hole through its ear,
it's a scar that does not heal.
So that's a blemish.
This has to be a totally unblemished animal.
It can't have any scars at all.
So you get these female calves when they're first born
and you want to get calves that come from mothers
that are past the third year of life
that are still totally red,
every hair on them from nose to tail.
It's all red.
And so you have to find these cows
that are just that perfect.
And so as it turned out those,
we had two Seneca Trutus out of Houston
that were all red like that.
And they had mothers that were all red.
And then when we got to Tide Davenport's ranch,
we didn't have any at first.
We prayed out in the fields and within an hour,
the first one was born by a mother in the brush.
We found that, I have pictures of the very first one.
You can see those at my webpage,
which is Byron Stinson dot me.
And you can go see a picture
of the first red calf that we found.
And so then the Lord amazingly delivered to his herd,
another 18, 19, it came up to 21 total that we had.
Then we brought rabbis, very respected,
honorable, loving guys.
We flew them in quietly without fanfare from Jerusalem.
And we brought them to the ranch and they inspected
to make sure that this gentile and my team
that had inspected them had done a good job.
And during the inspection, the head rabbi turned to me
personally and said, "Byron, I have a problem."
I said, "What's the problem?"
He says, "There are just too many of them.
We have to inspect every hair."
I said, "Well, look, let's just go ahead
and pull out about seven or eight
and we'll pull the others in this other pin.
And then if we find some that are bad in the seven or eight
then we'll call them and bring in some more."
As it turned out, those seven or eight were good
on Ty's ranch, the two from the Santa Gratrutis were good.
And so we had nine total that we held back
and started the process of transport to Israel.
And then that was a whole other thing too,
to transport them.
So it was a big loss that the Lord had left us.
- Where are they now?
- So they're at, so the tabernacle tent went,
when Joshua comes in, the Ark of the Covenant,
the tabernacle tent sits at Gilgal
for about 10 years, and then it moves up to Shiloh,
stays there 370 years.
When we came, brought the cows in,
they went by a location by Gilgal to start,
and now they've moved up to Shiloh,
where they're sitting at Shiloh right now.
And then one of them will make a trip at some point
to the Mount of Olives.
And by the way, the Lord gave us that piece of land,
which is the exact, which is almost impossible to ever get.
He gave us that piece of land 13 years ago
to our organization, which is Bone Israel,
which means to build up Israel, to build up the land of God,
B-O-N-E-H, Israel.com.
And that's where we, if people want more information
on all that, they can get that.
- Okay, thank you.
Let's go to Pastor Jimenez.
You've been silent for a while.
Do you wanna weigh in on this?
- Yeah, absolutely.
First of all, the Bible says about these red heifers
that like all other sacrifices,
they were to be unspotted, unblemished.
But a lot of this stuff that they hype up
about the red heifer is not even in Numbers 19,
like where it's like there can't be one white hair on it
or something like that.
These are just things that are been added
to dramatize this idea of the red heifer.
- Wrong.
- And I just wanna be clear about the fact
that I totally agree with Pastor Shelley
that anybody sacrificing this red heifer
or doing anything to try to rebuild the temple
is only helping the antichrist
because that's the plan of the antichrist.
The antichrist is gonna use the Jews
to bring about a one world government, one world currency,
and then he's gonna turn on the Jews
and make Jerusalem desolate and declare himself God.
So the Bible's not clear about these things,
and all they're doing is they're helping.
- You're giving bad information.
Byron doesn't believe the New Testament lyrics.
- Well, Byron doesn't even believe Jesus is God,
so there you go.
- The Bible says that be ye not called rabbi,
and you're going around respecting rabbis.
Jesus said not to call people rabbis
and not to give them respect,
'cause the only rabbi is Jesus Christ, and you reject him.
The Bible also says in Hebrews chapter number 10,
it says, "Sacrifice an offering and burn offerings,
"and offering for soon thou wouldest not.
"Neither hadst pleasure therein,
"which were offered by the law.
"Then said he, 'Lo, I come to do thy will, O God.'
"He taketh away the first that he may establish the second."
The Bible makes it clear that God was never pleased
with any of the sacrifices.
That never took away sin.
It doesn't give the forgiveness of sins.
- That's absolutely not true.
The Bible makes it very clear
that God was pleased with the sacrifices.
- God was so pleased with the sacrifices
that in the times of Solomon's temple,
there are these two angel-like creatures
that were made out of gold.
They're called cruvim.
And they sit with their wings folded over on the temple,
on the Ark of the Covenant.
And when Israel would make the sacrifices,
these objects would become animated
and they would come alive.
And when God was happy with the Jewish people
on the Ark of the Covenant,
the cruvim would face each other.
When God was upset with us,
they would turn their backs towards each other.
And these were things that God made out of gold
in his temple.
There's many instances throughout the Torah
where it's "Reyach nechoach meganeden mikedem."
It's a pleasing fragrance for God
like it was in the Garden of Eden.
He loves his sacrifices.
He says it throughout the entire Torah
that he loves his sacrifices.
These are really important things for him.
You know, he said it.
I don't know why you're neglecting what God said.
Do you believe that God said,
do you believe that everything that God said in the Torah
is now untrue and God doesn't mean it anymore?
No, it's definitely true because in the Old Testament,
if you actually--
So then when God says that he loves his sacrifice--
Adam, let's let Pastor Shelley respond.
Here's the thing.
Everything in the Old Testament pictured Jesus.
In Genesis, he's the seed of the woman.
In Exodus, he's the Passover lamb.
In Leviticus, he's the scapegoat.
In Numbers, he is the red heifer.
In Deuteronomy, he's the prophet that would come.
And so the red heifer is, of course,
a picture of the Lord Jesus Christ,
but like Byron even said, he fulfilled the law,
which actually has meaning.
That word really means something.
He really, truly fulfilled the law.
And the Bible says in 2 Corinthians chapter number three,
it has been abolished.
It's crystal clear in the New Testament
it's been abolished.
And God destroyed the temple in 70 AD.
Why if God loves the Jews so much,
has he allowed the temple and everything
to be desolate for so long
and for the Jews to be scattered all over
and for people to just hate them consistently for so long?
And like, if he just loves them so much,
why is that happening?
- So the reason that it's been so long
is because in the covenant of Abraham,
the covenant is that they'll be given the land
and that many nations will be connected
and Abraham will become the father of many nations.
And it has taken 2,000 years
while the Jewish people have been blinded
and in the nations of the earth,
just as it written, that it would be like that.
That time is over now, but during that time,
the word of God, the actual-
- Was Adam blinded?
I just want to know your opinion that Adam is blinded.
- You know, I think you're blinded and I'm blinded
and Adam's blinded and the whole world is blinded
to the fullness of what God is doing right now.
So yes, we all have some blindness,
but definitely there is a blindness that has been upon the,
that doesn't mean complete blindness,
but it's a blindness to the spiritual outpouring
that is about to happen as well as a physical outpouring.
So where the church is blind,
is they're blind to the things of physicality.
And where the Jewish fathers of faith that are somewhat blind
is to the spirituality of the coming Messiah.
But they're opening, and we're both opening,
we're starting to see the physical
and they're seeing the spiritual.
And now there is, because Jesus came to fulfill
all these things, they'll no longer be Jew or Gentile,
but there'll be one family, one tree,
which we're all part of.
We can't do away with the root, with the base of the tree.
We were put in--
- We didn't get rid of them.
I mean, obviously Paul got saved.
- Hold on, Pastor Shelley, do you have to interrupt?
So we were added in as limbs into this tree.
We are not the root and Paul warns us,
do not become prideful and start saying
that we don't need the fathers of faith,
that we don't need the Old Testament,
that all that's done away with,
and then turn around and grab two or three
that you wanna keep.
Let's just let God be God and help us to understand
he's bringing us together as one tree at this time
for the salvation of all.
And we have had different roles.
The rest of the nations are all like the same.
It doesn't matter if you're in Africa or China,
we're the Gentile nations.
There's only one holy nation of God that is from Abraham,
and they were given different duties and responsibilities
that they have done well.
And we owe a great gratitude of thanks,
or we wouldn't even have our Bible,
wouldn't have a chance to even have this discussion
without Adam and without the Jewish people
that have done this for us throughout all time.
This is the plan of God, is to connect us.
That's what I'll tell you.
- Give Pastor Heman as a response to.
- Yeah, absolutely.
The question I have is,
because obviously the Old Testament saints
were people of faith.
I mean, that's what Hebrews 11 goes on
about all these Old Testament saints,
descendants of Abraham.
But you're saying that we're supposed to be thankful
to Adam, like the guy sitting right here,
that he somehow gave us the word of God.
Well, then why does Jesus call the Jews of today,
why does he say that they,
he says that they say they are Jews and are not,
but are the synagogue of Satan.
Why does Jesus say that about Adam?
- I would love to comment on Revelations,
'cause you guys talk about this a lot.
And like, when I read Revelations,
when I read this thing where you say
that the Jews are the synagogue of Satan,
I actually don't read Revelations that way.
He's clearly talking to the angel
of the Church of Philadelphia.
And when he says, "Since you have kept my commandment
"to endure patiently," in number, in 10,
I hear myself, I'm like, oh, he's talking about the Jews,
'cause we've been so patient for 2,000 years.
I'm like, oh, so clearly he's not calling the Jews
the synagogue of Satan, he's calling that
to this Church of Philadelphia,
the synagogue of Satan, whoever they are.
They claim to be Jews and they're not.
But to you, the Jews who have kept my commandments
and endured patiently, and he says,
"I will also keep you from the hour of trial
"that has come on the whole world
"to test the inhabitants of the earth."
I'm not like, I don't hold by the New Testament or anything,
but I don't see that verse saying
that the Jews of the synagogue are Satan,
like you guys all love to go around and prayed.
Even when I tell the world how much I love Satan
and I do not love Satan at all,
and I hate Satan, and I'm war against Satan,
you're like, "No, you love Satan."
And it's like, it's so crazy to me
that I constantly run into that brick wall with Christians.
One thing that I want to say about this
is that when you're talking about those who say
that they are Jews and they are not,
what it says is these people are very preoccupied.
I see it like there's a bunch of people
who go out into the world and they claim to be a Jew,
they're the CEO of some company or something like that.
Nobody ever heard the name Burla before.
I never heard of a Burla.
I've heard like 20 million Shapiros almost,
but I've never heard of a Burla
until he came around with Pfizer.
But the thing that trips me out about revelations
is when you talk about the Mark of the Beast
and all that stuff,
I see it as like the Pfizer Moderna vaccine.
Like I don't even believe in the Mark of the Beast thing,
but I mean, they literally made their patent 2020-06-06-06.
And like it has like this biometric data tracer.
Like you're like owned, you're like shadow property
if you took that Moderna vaccine.
If there was ever something that took place
in the physical world that made me think,
oh, that's what the Christians were talking about
with the Mark of the Beast, I would be thinking the vaccine.
But that's neither here nor there.
When you say that the Mark of the Beast
is gonna be implemented by the Jews and the Antichrist,
I'm like, yo, did you pay attention in the last four years
to like how many people have injected with this thing?
- One very, very short thing.
When you read that verse, make sure you read it like this.
You could say, replace the word Jews with Christian.
They say that they're Christians, but they're not, okay?
- Why would I read it like that?
- And that verse is saying they say that they're Jews,
righteous, good, honorable people, but they're not.
That's what that verse is saying that the Jews were good.
The Christians are good, but they say they are,
but they're not.
You have to read that verse like that.
- The Bible's really clear in Revelation.
- Pastor Shelley, go ahead.
- Yeah, I don't expect Adam to understand everything
in Revelation, or he probably hasn't necessarily
read every single verse,
but it's to the seven churches which are in Asia.
It's super clear that these are Greek churches.
He wasn't writing to Jews, he was writing to Greeks,
and Philadelphia is not a Jewish place.
So it's very clear that this is a vast majority
Gentile church.
Of course, there's only one group of people
that call themselves Jews, it's Jews.
There's only one group of people that worship in a synagogue.
- That's not true, man.
All these Christians, they go around
and they claim that they're now the real Jews,
and I'm not a Jew.
So just like, check yourself.
- Adam, let Pastor Shelley finish.
- Go for it.
- I think, obviously, this name change thing,
when he brought up Bula, of course,
a lot of Jews have changed their name throughout history
because they're ashamed and embarrassed of being a Jew
because they know they'll be persecuted
or treated unfairly because of it,
and people will beware of them.
It's not like Jews and Catholics
were friends throughout history.
It's not like Jews were even friendly in America
because in the laws of Connecticut of 1673,
if someone committed blasphemy against Jesus Christ,
like Byron and Adam do, they would be put to death
according to the law.
So the reality is that there's no such thing
as Judeo-Christian values here.
And the synagogue of Satan is alive and well today,
it's in Israel, and they wanna offer this red heifer
contrary to the fact that Jesus Christ
was the red heifer sacrifice, he was the Passover lamb,
and they have rejected it.
Byron is, he was said that someone told him
to go and help these Jews, that was not God,
that was the devil that whispered in his ear,
that was Satan, and he is really just doing the bidding
of the spirit of anti-Christ.
The Bible says who is a liar,
but he that deny that Jesus is the Christ.
And it's very clear that these two individuals
are unfortunately being led by the nose of the devil.
- I wanna respond.
So, one thing that I don't understand,
and everybody's welcome to answer this question,
is this concept that the New Testament
replaces the Torah, and that the Torah
is pretty much invalid.
I see tremendous wisdom in the Torah
that if you're not obsessing over who the Messiah is,
there's a tremendous amount of wisdom
that's applicable to daily life.
So, one example is kosher food.
Now, kosher food, I see, is the most humane way
to ever butcher an animal for human consumption.
Kosher animals have the trachea in the front of their necks.
Non-kosher animals don't.
You literally have to cut through layers of fat
to get to them.
Kosher is a surgical incision made into the trachea.
The lungs are inspected to see if the animal gasped for air
after it died.
There's a way to check.
There's blemishes on the lungs called mumim.
If there's two or less, it's called glot kosher.
If there's zero, it's called halakh bet yosef.
It's the highest level of kosher.
So this is such a highly conscious, evolved way
of eating animals and just eating in general.
What baffles me is that this concept
that when you say Jesus came to fulfill the law,
and then basically post Jesus, all these wonderful things
that are contained in the Torah are seemingly invalid.
And you could literally eat roadkill
and think of yourself as being like a conscious, elevated
being.
The purpose of the giving of the Torah and these commandments
are to elevate human consciousness away
from our animal desires to our godly self.
And inside of them is tremendous wisdom
on how to be an evolved soul and how to spiritually develop
oneself.
Kosher is a prime example of that.
Let's let them respond.
Pastor Jimenez, go ahead.
Well, I'm not even sure what that had to do with anything.
When it comes to the red heifer, one thing
that I'd like to bring up, because--
and these guys are probably going to disagree with this,
and I understand that.
But when you look at the fascination with the red heifer
online--
Well, you're tangenting from my comment,
and I don't want to interrupt, but you're saying--
I want to hold you to my comment,
because you're saying that the Old Testament is invalid.
I'm going to do it.
I want Pastor Shelley to respond to your comment,
and then I will let Pastor Jimenez bring us back
to the red heifer.
I am going to assume at this point
that you guys may prefer to continue this discussion
without making closing comments.
We can come back to that in 10 minutes.
But for this period of time,
I want Pastor Shelley to respond to Adam's comment,
and then I'll let Pastor Jimenez
bring us back to the red heifer.
I'll respond quickly.
So of course the Old Testament's great.
There was aspects that were fulfilled.
That doesn't mean that they're not still great.
There's still spiritual truths that can be learned from it.
But in Genesis chapter number nine,
when God was talking to Noah,
he said specifically in verse number three,
"Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you."
So at the time of Noah, they ate every single animal.
And in the New Testament,
it says every creature of God is good
and nothing to be refused
if it be received with thanksgiving.
So this kosher thing is really just a rejection
of the fact that the Old Testament sacrifices
of clean animals were to picture the holiness
of someone who's saved
and the imputed righteousness of Jesus Christ.
But there's no longer a distinction
between Jew and Gentile.
And everything, if sanctified by the word of God, is pure.
And so Gentiles are the picture of the unclean beast
that Peter was told to slay and eat.
And the Bible says that Peter lived as the Gentiles.
That's what Paul literally said.
So I believe that Peter literally ate non-kosher diet.
- Okay, if I can get back to the red heifer.
- Yes, Pastor. - Thank you very much.
And I agree with everything Pastor Shelley said.
When you look at the fascination with the red heifer
right now, what everybody's so excited about
is that it's gonna lead to the rebuilding
of the third temple.
This idea that it's needed for the Levitical priesthood
or whatever priesthood they're trying to put back up
to be put back in and for the temple to be built.
And I just wanna make the point
that this is not even biblical,
even in the sense of what the Old Testament teaches.
Because the red heifer sacrifice
is kind of dropped into the book of Numbers
in Numbers chapter 19, just kind of in this random spot.
It's not in the book of Leviticus
where you get all the sacrifices.
And I say it's like it's random.
I don't think it's random.
I think God actually put it exactly where he wanted
to make a point.
Because if you look at Numbers 19,
there's a very famous chapter, Chapter 16,
where you have the rebellion of Korah.
And Korah's rebelling against Moses and against Aaron.
He's upset that Aaron is the high priest
and he actually wants to take Aaron's place.
Of course, the earth opens up its mouth.
Korah is, it goes down into the pit.
250 princes that followed him are burned up.
Then you've got the sympathizers.
God sends a plague to deal with them.
Number 17, you have Aaron's rod that budded,
where God performs that miracle to show and to prove
that he chose Aaron as the high priest, not Korah.
Then in chapter 18, you have the duties of the priest.
And then in chapter 19,
you have the red heifer sacrifice.
So I think God is just making this point.
It's chapter 16.
I already chose Aaron as the high priest.
Chapter 17, I chose Aaron at the high priest.
Chapter 18, let me give you the duties of the priest.
And then he gives us the red heifer sacrifice.
And we're supposed to believe that, oh no, no,
the red heifer sacrifice is needed
to establish the priesthood.
Well, that doesn't even make any sense
in the context of the book of Numbers
'cause the priesthood was already established.
The tabernacle was already established.
So the whole thing is just silly anyway.
- It's not needed to establish the priesthood.
The priesthood was already--
- Well, I know that's what you're gonna say,
but that's not what they're all saying.
Everyone that's excited about the red heifer
is excited about the temple.
- Purify the world from death.
It has nothing to do with establishing the priesthood.
It has nothing to do with building the temple.
It has to do with purifying the world from death.
It has positive consequences for the temple
because it, for instance, one needs to be purified
from death in order to enter into the temple,
in order to enter into the Holy of Holies on Yom Kippur.
You know, you have to be purified from death.
There's all the sorts of different things
where the removal of the impurity of death is important.
So, but it's important also that you understand
the function of the red heifer.
Because so the internet is in hysterics
because of that guy, Stupid Peters.
And all of his idiot videos that he's making,
you know, when he's cracked out on drugs.
But like the truth is, is that it's,
the third temple is going to happen regardless.
But the purpose of the red heifer
is to remove the impurity of death from the world.
So let's just understand what its function actually is.
- So in the Bible though, we see that there are,
for example, like Numbers chapter seven,
where you have the Nazarite vow.
The Bible gives an example where if somebody dies
suddenly in front of you,
how they were supposed to shave their head
and they were supposed to bring
all these different sacrifices.
There's other sacrifices that we can look at
in regards to the purifying for death.
And even the things that you're talking about,
one question that I wanted to ask you is you,
and we keep coming back to this,
but I've never got the chance to actually ask you,
this idea that when the Red Heifer sacrifices sacrifice,
people are gonna wake up out of coma
and the blind are gonna see,
well, did that happen in the Book of Numbers
when they had the Red Heifer sacrifice?
Did that happen in the Old Testament?
It has to do with it.
It has.
Yeah, it has.
The Old Testament doesn't say that.
Yeah, the ashes of the Red Heifer are used.
They're tremendously healing.
We live in a world that's very different from the world
when the temple stood.
When the temple stood,
the whole world functioned very differently.
There was open miracles everywhere.
People could perform miracles all the time.
Like, you know...
You have a verse for that.
You have an Old Testament verse for that.
Yeah.
The Red Heifer sacrifice.
When Saul is king, before Saul becomes king,
he goes to the prophets and the spirit of prophecy
rests on him and he just starts speaking prophecy
and doing crazy miracles.
That kind of stuff was a frequent occurrence
in the world of the Mishkan, the tabernacle,
and in the temple.
And so, we live in a world now,
our world that we live in is called
the world of Nishtir Hapanim,
the hidden face of God.
When God destroyed His temple
because of the many sins of Israel,
He took Himself away from the world
and He operates behind the veil of reality.
And we have become so accustomed
to not seeing God in our day-to-day life.
You know, in the Torah,
it says in the seventh generation,
it became forbidden to profane the name of God
in the generation of Enosh.
So those first seven generations of Adam,
God like walked among us.
He was like, the relationship was so much more personal.
And that's really why we were created,
was to have this personal relationship with God
and the Torah and history
and this process of coming to rectify
the sin of the tree of knowledge,
which in Judaism we call the "Techyat HaMetim,"
the revival of the dead that is brought about
by the coming of the Messiah,
where nobody dies anymore.
But the ashes of the red heifer,
this ritual is rooted in healing.
It's rooted in casting death off of the person,
which is the cause of all sickness.
What I'm asking for is an Old Testament passage
that proves what you're saying.
That's what I'm asking for.
There's been nine instances.
I can find you if you'd like right now.
The Talmud is so dense with...
I'm not asking for the Talmud.
I'm asking for the Bibles and healing.
Hold on.
Adam, if you want to look through that,
Byron is chomping at the bit to get a comment in.
Thank you, guys.
So what we got started on this conversation is
why in the world is this thing blowing up all over the internet?
I mean, my personal page, I have over 10,000 people in Nepal are looking at this.
Can you imagine Nepal?
People go into their Bibles in Nepal to try to figure this out.
And I just don't think that's a bad thing that the whole world
is looking in their Bibles because of this.
But here's why I believe it is getting so viral.
It is because of fear.
You know, there's motivations of faith to move you forward and confidence.
But what really moves people forward is a sense of fear.
And I think the whole world understands that we are in the last days.
And there are some things going on out there that do lead to an antichrist coming.
A kingdom that comes against the world.
The mark of the beast.
You can't buy and sell.
We know all that's coming.
Okay.
Now, here's the thing.
Here's the thing.
Anybody listening, that is going to come.
But there's nothing you can do about it.
But first, before it can come, there has to be a God's temple rebuilt
because the Antichrist comes to stop what is happening in God's temple.
In the New Testament, it says that evil can't stand against itself.
It's a house divided.
Lucifer and Satan, the Antichrist, don't come to God's temple
because it's the Antichrist temple.
He comes because it's God's temple that has been built
because there are amazing, wonderful things for the world happening there.
That's why he has to come.
And if he does not come, then the Messiah cannot arrive
and do away with him and bring about a kingdom of peace.
So there is no way to get to the kingdom of peace
if we don't have the Antichrist come.
We have to stop being fearful of that
and know that God has a plan to bring his Messiah.
Now, the Jewish people, they want the Messiah to come
and we should want the Messiah to come.
That's the question we should ask ourselves.
Do we want him to come?
If we do, then the Antichrist has to come at some point.
But first, there has to be a catalyst
for the Antichrist to want to come and stop the sacrifices.
And that catalyst is good things for the earth
and God's kingdom starting to sprout
and unity between Jews and Christians starts happening.
And the Antichrist comes to attempt to stop that.
He won't be able to do it because the Messiah arrives.
Go ahead.
Okay, so the argument that's being made here by Byron is that
the temple is somehow pleasing to God
and the sacrifices are pleasing to God and the Antichrist stops it.
But the Bible says in Revelation chapter 6 that when the first seal is opened,
when Daniel's 70th week begins, the first seal is opened.
The first thing that we see come on the scene, the Bible says in Revelation 6 2,
"And I saw him behold a white horse, and he that sat on him had a crown,
and a crown was given unto him, and he went forth conquering and to conquer."
So we see that the Antichrist shows up right at the beginning
of Daniel's 70th week, right at the beginning of that seven-year period.
And then, of course, it's not till the midst of the week that he sets up the
abomination of desolation, he causes the sacrifices to cease.
The point that I want to make is that the daily sacrifices begin towards the beginning
of Daniel's 70th week, and the Antichrist is already going forth conquering and to conquer.
It is this Antichrist who even initiates this temple and these sacrifices to begin with.
He does that because for the first part of this seven-year period, he's going to, like the Bible
says, go forth conquering to conquer. He's going to have a political rise. He's going to become
a one-world leader. He's going to establish a one-world government, and he uses the Jews to do that.
But then in the midst of the week, when he sets up the abomination of desolation,
this is when he declares himself God, and he now institutes a one-world religion, he turns on the
Jews. Because the truth is the Jews don't want a messiah, obviously. They don't want a messiah
that's God, like neither one of you, both of you reject Jesus as God. So when he declares himself
God, he turns on them. It's just the Bible says in John chapter 5 verse 43, "I am come in my
father's name, and ye receive me not. If another's come in his own name, him ye will receive." I do
believe that people like Adam and Byron will accept what they think is the second coming
of Jesus or the first coming, the first Messiah, which is really just the Antichrist. And it's
really clear that Byron doesn't believe the Bible whatsoever. Well, the point is that the Antichrist
is going to turn on Jerusalem. He's going to make it desolate. That's when he causes the sacrifices
to cease. But to say that he causes the sacrifices to cease, therefore shows that he's the bad guy
and the sacrifices are good, just doesn't make any sense when he's the one that's also behind
the temple and the daily sacrifices beginning to begin with. He's just using the Jews.
And when he's done with the Jews, he turns on them. Can I make one short comment about,
just one short comment? Go ahead. I believe the rider on the white horse is Yeshua Himself
setting out on his way. Then we, and this is what's happening even right now, but there's
going to come a time when the Antichrist comes against the rider. In Revelation chapter six,
you have four horsemen. You have somebody riding a white horse, another one riding a red horse,
not a red heifer, but a red horse. You've got the four horsemen of the apocalypse. I don't see how
you could say that the first one is Jesus. That's pretty ridiculous. He's in Revelation from the very
beginning. He walks right up to John immediately and says, "Don't be afraid. Don't be afraid,
for I've come and I am ready. I'm going to bring all of this together." I have no fear that Yeshua,
the son of Mary in the line of King David, is going to help the world come to a place of fulfillment,
which is what he came for, was to fulfill all the things of the Torah. The Torah does not go,
it's not done away with. It is fulfilled by the works of Christ from the beginning of time to the
end of time. As you just said earlier, in the beginning, the work was God and Jesus was there
with God the Father. And He is a fulfillment of God. That is what He is doing.
Byron, let me ask you a question. I'm going to limit the closing statements to two minutes,
guys. I think everybody can agree with that. We're having a discussion here. But Byron,
I'm a little confused. You are citing the New Testament as Scripture, but yet you don't accept
Jesus Christ as the Messiah. Can you explain that? Well, sure. I've already told you about four times
that I absolutely, 100% believe that Jesus Christ is the Messiah. It is Pastor Shelley that put words
in my mouth and said, "I don't believe it," and Pastor Jimenez, but they're just speaking for me.
But I believe 100% that Yeshua will present Himself from the line of King David. Okay, so to be clear,
you cite the New Testament as Scripture and you do believe Jesus Christ is the Messiah.
Is that accurate? Absolutely, and so here's the thing. When I work with my Jewish rabbis
and friends, they are not confused by that. They know that I believe He'll be the Messiah.
And the way that we build relationship with a... It's not a disagreement between us. It's just that
my Jewish fathers of faith, there are certain physical things that have to be for them to
recognize Him as Messiah. He has to be born at Bethlehem and Frata. Not where Queen Helena has
Him today. All of that's the wrong place and the Jews know it. There's all kinds of stuff in our
Roman theology that is so mixed up and ridiculous. It's very hard for them to believe these things
because we're just so confused coming out of our Roman theology and replacement theology and all
that stuff that's in the church. So this discussion is a good one if we can come together and know
that we should love each other and not disrespect each other by saying bad things. I hope I haven't
disrespected you, Pastor Jimenez, or you, Pastor Shelley. It's not about that. It's about us coming
together and Yeshua, who is going to come and present himself with all of the physical factors
that need to be shown to the Jewish fathers of faith, they will see him and they will know that
he is the Messiah. That's what I believe personally. But they're waiting for things to be fulfilled.
I hope that it would be clear that I am being disrespectful towards your positions and your
attitude and everything you're saying because what you're saying is blasphemous and everything
that you're doing is working for the Antichrist. Really, the Bible warns about people preaching
another Jesus and that's what you're doing. You may use the word Jesus, you may use the
word Messiah, but you don't believe them according to the text and we've shown many places in
scripture where you clearly denied it. I am curious though, I want to know if Adam believes
that someone is going to come and the Messiah or whatever he's going to use, whatever word
he wants to use, the Messiah is going to come and take away the daily sacrifice and if that
person did, would you accept them as your Messiah? So the Messiah, here's the thing,
the Jewish conception of the Messiah is very different than the Christian conception of the
Messiah. And for instance, like we believe in reincarnation, we don't believe in like,
this is our only life and then you either go to heaven or hell. Like we believe in all sorts of
different things that like don't necessarily fit into the ideology or theology of what the
Christian Messiah is, but we do believe that the Messiah, that there is a Mashiach, an anointed
soul that constantly reincarnates. And so we believe that the Messiah is always here. And
it's not about the Messiah coming, but more about the Messiah being revealed. So the Messiah in some
lives will just be like a falafel stand attendant. You know, he's just chilling. He doesn't want like
the responsibility, but in other lives he's trying to reveal himself. And there's like this balance.
And this is one of the reasons why, you know, in Judaism there's been failed messiahs before,
you know, like there's, there's been attempts to reunify the people and, and, and, and cause the
redemption and build a nation again for us in our ancestral land. So the Messiah is always here.
The Messiah is always here in the physical realm. Who's the Messiah now? Is it Ben Shapiro?
That's ridiculous, but I'm just curious. Who is it? I mean, is it Netanyahu? Maybe it's like a
little bit. Can I ask pastors? No, but here's the thing about the Messiah. I want to, I want to
finish my thought. And then Byron, you can ask your question. So the Messiah, we're going through
this process right now with the Red Heifer and all this stuff. And the Messiah is here with us
and the Messiah will be crowned and the Messiah will rule again. And the, and, and there's this
revelation and this ends this age called the Nishtir Hapanim, the hidden face of God,
because God in Ezekiel 38 to 40 does all these things just to reveal Himself to the world,
just His comeback to the world to say that He is here. God is not like in the world of the Messiah,
God is not like this backseat character. God is like intimately involved in all of our lives in
an extremely revealed way. So, yes, I believe that the age of the Messiah is coming. I believe
that the Messiah will be revealed in this generation. And I believe that the time is now.
So, Byron, you can go ahead with your question. So, first to qualify it, in the book of Genesis,
there's a blessing from Jacob to Judah to say, "To you will come the scepter and the rod."
And so, my question is this, Pastor Shelley, do you know what a Messiah is?
Messiah is the Christ, and the Bible makes it clear that Jesus is the Christ.
Why does it say that? Have there been other Messiahs?
No. There's only one Messiah. It's Jesus Christ. He's the Holy One. He's the Chosen One.
And He's the Savior. He's the Way, the Truth, and the Life. And no man cometh
unto the Father but by Him. The Torah does designate the word "Mashiach" to others, though.
It is written in the Torah that people are designated as the "Mashiach." It uses the word "Mashiach."
Sadly, the church does not even know what a Messiah is. A Messiah is one that's anointed
to be both king and priest. That's what the scepter and the rod mean. And so it's to the line of King
Judah. So David was a Messiah. He reigned as king and priest. Solomon reigned like that. Yes,
Moses reigned like that. Hold on a second. Hold on a second. And then Moses and the wilderness was
separated with Aaron and Moses, and then there was no Messiahship. So there's been many Messiahs
through time. These are earthly men, Messiahs, but there is going to be one eternal Messiah
who has promised to come and rescue all of us at the end of the reigns of kingdoms of man.
We are still suffering under the kingdoms of man. We see that in the book of Daniel.
When we look down and we see the golden head of Nebuchadnezzar and then the Medes and the
Persians and the Romans, who we get all of our theology as Christians from, and the Greeks,
and from that comes the nations of the earth. And then at the end, the one that's rejected,
which is the eternal Messiah, comes hurtling in and hits the kingdoms of man and turns it all
into dust. And that's what's about to happen. And we're going to recognize the difference
between a Messiah and an Antichrist. Unfortunately, most of the world is probably going to follow up
the Antichrist and take the mark of the beast, which is why I'm willing to come and spend my
time to try to help you understand the Messiah is coming, but so is the Antichrist. And we need to
build the temple and prepare ourself for a three and a half year period of time that's harder.
Are you going to let us talk to you? Hey, so I think the audience needs to be aware that everything
he just said is a bunch of garbage. Obviously, Jesus is both King's King and priest. We understand
that. But he just said that Solomon and David were kings and priests. How in the world was David a
priest? He was a king. How was Solomon a priest? They had priests. They have it was a king and a
prophet. He was a Navi. And in the age of Navin, he was so I asked, how was he a king and a priest?
He was. He preached the word of God. He wrote the entire book of Psalms. The Bible says in the Old
Testament. Have you read the book of Psalms? Yes, I've read the book of Psalms. In the Old Testament,
you have kings going into the temple. I mean, he wrote the book of Psalms. No, David was not a
priest. He was from the tribe of Judah. Are you serious? Are you even a Jew? I thought you were a
Jew. But he was anointed. Shouldn't you know out of everybody here, shouldn't you know that the
Jews come from Levi? I mean this is so ridiculous. David was from the tribe of Judah. He was not
a priest. Neither was Solomon. Moses made air in the priesthood. Now the King was anointed.
I just think the audience should know that you don't know what you're talking about.
All the kings of every king of Judah underwent the anointing ceremony. No king of Judah was
a priest. The only person that holds the position of king and priest is the Lord Jesus Christ,
which is why He's the chosen one. It's not the chosen one. He's the chosen one. He came back
and after Herod and everything happened before Herod. The Lord Jesus Christ is the high priest
of the order of Melchizedek. He's king and priest. The priests actually took over and became the
kings. So there was like this whole period of priest-kings also during that period where
the priests became the kings. But there's like this interweaving of like of of the Malchut.
And and just for the record you're not talking about the Bible. You're not quoting the Bible.
You're quoting. I am talking about the Bible. Talking about the Torah. You know the part that
we look at 2 Samuel 8. Don't even think is real anymore. The Bible uses the word Messiah twice in
the Old Testament and it never references any of the people you brought up as far as Solomon or
David. It's in Daniel twice and it's specifically about the Lord Jesus Christ. David is anointed.
There's only one Messiah and it's Jesus. The Torah says that David is anointed. They use the word
Messiah. Messiah means to be anointed. He's anointed with the holy anointing oil. In the
King James Bible the word Messiah is in the Old Testament twice. It's both in Daniel and to say
that David was a priest or Messiah is just false doctrine. There's nothing in the Bible. David
was not allowed to offer sacrifices and David was had to go to the priest himself. David did not
do that. Second Samuel 8.18. Second Samuel 8.18 and David's sons were priests. That's pretty
straightforward guys. It's because when you go back to Genesis and the blessing of Jacob is the
scepter and the rod. The rod represents priesthood. The scepter represents kingship. A messiah is
one that's king and priest together. And in second Samuel you're saying that I'm a liar,
that I don't know my word. Second Samuel 8.18 says and David's sons were priests. That includes
Solomon. That includes his land. And David could not, the thing if you remember when David recaptured
the ark of the covenant, he had his soldier Uriah touch it and die. David could touch it.
David could write songs to the Lord. David could write psalms. Only priests can do that, okay,
because God anointed him to be Messiah. You just made up a verse. It's not in the Bible. I don't
know why you keep talking because there's no verse in the Bible that says that. You just made
something up. Second Samuel 8.18 says and David's sons were chief rulers. Second Samuel 8.18 just
for the record. Second Samuel 8.18 in the King James Bible says and David's sons were chief rulers.
It doesn't say they're priests. There are some interpretations that say that. Which one? Name
one. Name one. You'll see that it absolutely says right. Which one? What's the exact verse
that you want to say? What's the exact verse? Second Samuel 8.18 he said it. 18 what? Second
Samuel 8.18. What is it? And Benanyah the son of Jehoiah was over both the Karathites and the
Pelethites and David's sons were chief rulers. That's what it says. What number is that? I'm
trying to find that. Second Samuel 8.18 we've said it like five times. Oh 8.18 I thought you said 18
hold on. 8.18 and David's sons were chief rulers. That's what the Bible says. I will it apparently
the Septuagint does give an alternative reading there but King James is super clear that they're
chief officials. That would be that would be a contradiction to text because David's not his
sons are not priests. Benyau Benyayada is actually one of my favorite characters in the Bible. He
accompanies he's the priest he's one of the high priests there's two high priests one goes to war
and one stays in the temple. Benyau Benyayada goes to war carries the Ark of the Covenant to war.
"Ha kareity ha plaiti uvinay david kohanimahu" and the children of David are kohanim. It says the word
priests right here. Do you not believe that the Levitical priesthood was limited? Well now that
I see it right here written in the Hebrew it says kohanim. Like specifically kohanim is the word that
describes the descendants of Aaron and Kohanim. Here it says uvinay david and the children of
david kohanimu. They are kohanim. So you're saying that in the Old Testament. You're saying it doesn't
say it anywhere. I just read it in Hebrew. It says it right there. You're saying that in the Old
Testament there were priests that came out of the tribe of Judah. That's what you're saying. That's
what it says right here in second Samuel. Well then Samuel is the prophet that crowns the kingdom.
Samuel was the leader of the nation prior to David, prior to Saul. He crowned Saul and then
God takes away the kingship from Saul and puts it on David and he says right here. Yeah, absolutely.
Now I believe it fully because I saw it in the text. Thank you guys. Okay, so I'll tell you what.
Here's what I want to do guys. We're over our time. That's okay. I still want to allow closing
statements and so what I think we'll do here is we'll go ahead and stick with the original rule.
We'll do five minute closing statements. You're welcome obviously to not go all five if you would
not like to, but maximum five. I'm going to cut you off at five, but here's where I would like this
to be rooted. I'd like this to be back to the original question of is the red heifer biblical?
Let's talk about your closing statements about what the Bible says, what the text of the Bible
says and the teachings of the Bible says or say about the red heifer. So let's try to keep our
comments Ben Shapiro free here and Stu Peters free and let's focus on the text of the Bible
for our closing statements. It was a spirited debate. I hope everybody had a good time. I hope
my moderation was fair and balanced if you want to do this again. You're the best at the game,
Owen Troyer. All right. Well, I appreciate that. Don't butter me up too much. You're still only
going to get five minutes, Adam. So I just want to keep this rooted in the original content,
Red Heifer. And is it biblical? Let's talk about the text and the teaching in the Bible. Let's
start with Byron. So absolutely, it's biblical. What the Lord did through Moses was give a pattern
that teaches us. And if without that pattern, we would never have realized that the sacrifice
of a lamb that would hold, would forgive sin for one year at a time was a picture and a reflection
of what God was going to teach through Yeshua, that he would be the eternal lamb sacrifice. So
he is the lamb of God, and he is our sacrifice. And we learn that through what Moses was taught
by God, by this pattern that was taught in the wilderness. There's many more things in that
pattern that need to be understood, but there was enough right now that the nations of the earth
are connected and looking back at this temple mountain. The temple mountain is the place where
all those things in that pattern will be revealed to the world as we allow those things to be
revealed, as we want those things to be revealed. And so there's over 900 million cows killed every
day for our consumption. The Jews want to take one perfect red heifer on the Mount of Olives
and to burn it to ashes, mix it with the water from the Gihon spring, the living water,
and sprinkle it on everything to make it holy. And this is a system that God put in the Bible for
them to do. And it's not for me as a Christian. I didn't do this because I need that. I have
Yeshua in my heart. That's what I need. But my fathers of faith, they need to see this pattern
revealed and walked out so that we can become one. So this is why we that wanted to join with our
fathers of faith in Israel have been given the opportunity to join with them in all the things,
this pattern that God wants to reveal to the world. Yes, the Antichrist will come against it. Yes,
he will try to put over his ruling over the world to stop the world from following the ways of God.
It won't work. The Messiah will come and he'll rescue us. But this is my big, this is why I'm
on this show. This is the only reason I'm on this show. People watching, you need to know that there
will come a time when the Antichrist comes to stop. The temple will come and the Antichrist
will show up after a time and stop the sacrifices. And then he will require that you take the mark of
the beast if you want to buy and sell. It's going to be very hard to say, "No, I refuse to take that
mark." You will know what it is. You need to make sure you don't take that mark. And know this,
it's only three and a half years and the Messiah will be here to rescue you. Paul spent his life
in a prison right in a Bible for all of us. He suffered. And he said, "I can live in all good
things and I can live in hard things." We have to be prepared to live in hard times when that comes
to not take the mark and to follow after the God of the Bible who loves the Jewish fathers of faith
and the children scattered in the nations called the church. Today's the day to unify. And Red
Heifer is not a place to be against each other. It's a place to come together, look at this,
continue to discuss. Don't call each other names. Don't decide that we're evil. Just talk to each
other, learn to love each other, care about each other, and do it in the way that Yeshua would have
us do. One last thing, don't have murder in your heart. Don't want to kill people. The government
has its responsibility. If it doesn't do it, then we have to vote better leaders in. We are not to
be murderers. We're not to be liars. We're not to be thieves. We need to do what's right in the
world and the Messiah will show up and take care of all of us. That's my hope and that's my belief.
Okay, Byron Stinson, thank you for your commentary tonight and your closing statements. Let's go to
Pastor Shelley. Well, in the question of is the Red Heifer biblical, obviously we see in the Old
Testament a mention of the Red Heifer and for a time period, of course, it was right for the
children of Israel to sacrifice various sacrifices, including the Passover and the Red Heifer.
But once Messiah has come and there's the time of reformation, we no longer need the meat,
drinks, divers, washings and cardinal ordinances. They were only imposed until Christ came.
Christ fulfilled the law. He fulfilled these pictures. He's the one that caused the lame
to walk and the blind to see. He's the one that did all of these miracles. And of course,
he's the one that died on the cross at the hands of the Jews. The Jews killed Jesus. They rejected
their Messiah. They did not believe in him, just like they don't believe the Old Testament. They
don't believe in the Red Heifer sacrifice. They don't believe in Leviticus chapter 20 verse 13.
They don't believe that the children of Israel were in the land of Egypt for 430 years. And so
exactly like today, they're not going to follow the Red Heifer sacrifice according to the Bible
either. It's just made up stuff like the Talmud. The Talmud is just made up oral teaching. It has
nothing to do with the scripture. And the Bible makes it clear in second Corinthians chapter
number three, that those who are unsaved and those who call themselves Jews, they can't
understand the Bible. The Bible says in second Corinthians chapter three, verse 13, "And not
as Moses, which put a veil over his face, that the children of Israel could not steadfastly look
to the end of that which is abolished." So the Bible says the Old Testament's abolished and they
can't understand that. It says, "But their minds were blinded for until this day remained the same
veil untaken away in the reading of the Old Testament, which veil is done away in Christ."
So here's the thing. Adam can read the Old Testament all day long about the red heifer,
but he literally can't understand it until he believes in Jesus Christ.
And once he believes in Jesus Christ, the red heifer will make sense to him.
The fact that Byron denies that Jesus is God and doesn't understand who Jesus truly is means he
doesn't believe the Bible either and he's not saved either. And so he doesn't understand the
Old Testament. And so him ushering in these red heifers thinking he's doing God's service,
he's really just doing the bidding of the anti-Christ. And it's very clear that he's
going to usher him in and he's helping and assisting him. Whether he believes in him
or not, it's just insane to want to usher in this anti-Christ and to perform a sacrifice
or help people perform a sacrifice that is blasphemous. It is blasphemous to sacrifice
an animal and to claim that this is somehow biblical. It's a rejection of Jesus. Jesus
already said that he fulfilled the law and it's very clear that to perform one of these
sacrifices is a rejection of both the Old and New Testament. It's not just a rejection
of the New, it's a rejection of both testaments. The Bible prophesied of one Messiah, that's
Jesus. There's no such thing as multiple Messiahs. No one alive today is the Messiah. The Messiah
is in heaven, seated at the right hand of the father and he will return. But before
he returns, the Bible says there's going to be a falling way first and the man of sin
is going to be revealed, the son of perdition, which is the anti-Christ and many are going
to believe in him. And so you need to believe in Jesus Christ by faith alone, trusting in
him alone for salvation and that's what's going to take you to heaven. That's what salvation
is. It's not by works or repenting your sin or all the other junk that Byron said earlier.
Okay, Pastor Shelley, thank you for your commentary tonight and your closing comments. Let's go
now to Adam King.
Well, I want to thank everybody for coming and having us. I am speaking now to the audience.
I am so excited for the time that we live in and the age that's upon us and all the
opportunity that we have to come close to God in these days. And there's different theological
approaches to understanding things and whatnot. I think that the world is divided into two
parts - those who believe that a Messiah is coming and those who don't believe that there
is a Messiah. So the age of the Messiah is so exciting because really it's the rectification
of the sin of the eating of the tree of knowledge and the ability for humans to move past death
and live forever, taking our seat next to God as God's partner. God created humans
because we were made but sell an Elohim in the exact image of God. God says, "Lo tov
yotadam levodo." It's not good for a man to dwell alone. In Genesis he creates all
these things for man to find his partner and man doesn't find his partner. So God puts
Adam into a sleep called tardema and in this sleep he cuts Adam in half and he separates
the male and the female forces and he calls the female force Eve. It says a very peculiar
thing it says. Therefore man will leave his father and mother and cling to his wife. "Cling"
this "devek" doesn't necessarily mean "cling" this word "devek" comes from the word "devekut"
which means spiritual devotion but the greater underlying question is did Adam have a mother
and father? So in this verse we learn what God intended man to be. God intended man to
be the reason why man was created in the exact image of God was because God created man as
partner to this creation that he created. Now when man was in the Garden of Eden man
had to shed this image of God as this parent to truly be God as this partner. So all of
human history is caught into this evolution of human consciousness to rise to an occasion
where we could truly be in divine union with the Creator, the Borei Olam, the Creator of
the world who created all of us. And that is the purpose of the Messiah. The Messiah
comes to rectify what took place in the Garden of Eden. We're talking about building the
Third Temple and the Red Heifer and all this stuff. The Messiah is on such a bigger wavelength
than just like the rectification of the Jews and the Jewish exile. The Messiah is on a
completely different wavelength. The Messiah is here to literally break the shackles of
the fallen state of human consciousness to rise us back up to our immortal self that
we were created as in the Garden of Eden before the sin of the Tree of Knowledge. So this
is a really exciting time that we're living in and there's all these things that are happening
in conjunction with it. The Red Heifer, the building of the Third Temple, the Jews coming
back and turning the deserts into beautiful oases after 2,000 years of there never being
a state in that land. It's all biblical prophecy. Open up your eyes. I know the Christians love
throwing this around that they say that "He who has eyes to see, let him see; and he who
has ears to hear, let him hear." Just open your eyes and see the miracles. We are living
in the revelation of God in these days, and God is coming here to do something remarkable.
So have some faith. Whatever you think, Antichrist, Christ, this or that, it doesn't matter. Be
prepared to greet the Messiah. Be prepared to embrace an entirely different form of human
existence. One completely not limited to the physical world where death and sickness and
sadness occur. We are truly elevating ourselves as humans and we are moving towards a completely
different paradigm reality of humans in our divine relationship with God. I want to thank
everybody for having me tonight and sharing these. If you have any questions, feel free
to DM me on X at the Adam King Show. Happy to answer any of these questions or have more
theological conversations expounding on these beautiful truths. And I'll close on this last
sentence. I believe in what Byron said. We have so much to share with each other and
I have so much to share with the world. I just want to share it. Do with it as you will,
but let me have my voice to speak my truth. And so I want to thank our moderator who's
always been very kind to me. I want to thank our hosts and my dear friend and partner Byron
who joins me in this in this mission and you the viewer audience who tuned in to us for
this. Thank you guys. Thank you for your commentary and your closing statements. We go to our
final closing statements tonight from Pastor Jimenez. All right. Well, I'd like to begin
by saying, first of all, thank you to Owen for moderating this debate. You did a great
job. Of course. Thank you to Pastor Shelley for hosting this on the Baptist bias. And
I do want to say thank you to Adam and Byron for coming on and being the Jew and the Judaizer
on this debate. I mean, that's kind of needed if we're going to have a debate. I want to
end by just saying a couple of things. First of all, the Bible is clear about the fact
that the old covenant has been done away. Hebrews 8 13 says this, in that he sayeth
a new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready
to vanish away. The Bible is clear about the fact that the old covenant's vanished away,
the sacrifices, the ordinances, it's all been done away, the biblical priesthood, the temple,
none of that is needed to be a New Testament believer, a New Testament Christian. And in
fact, to try to bring about the coming of the temple and all these things, you're just
helping the Antichrist, that is who is coming, that is who these people are going to receive.
As far as whether the Jewish religion of today is a legitimate religion, the Bible is clear
that the Jewish religion today is a satanic religion. It is the synagogue of Satan. And
I believe that, first of all, the Bible says that it's an Antichrist religion because they
believe that there is a Christ, but they reject Jesus as a Christ. And obviously, as a Bible
believing Christian, I stand against all false religion, whether it's Islam or whether it's
the Hindus, whether it's the Jews, if they reject Christ, they're going to die and go
to hell. But then you have people like Byron, who are just trying to act like they're Christians,
but also want to promote this Jewish idea that the Jews today are somehow God's chosen
people and that they're equivalent to the Old Testament saints. But here's what the
Bible says in John chapter 8 and verse 56, Jesus said, "Your father Abraham rejoiced
to see my day, and he saw it and was glad. Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not
yet fifty years old, and has thou seen Abraham? Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say
unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. Then took they up stones to cast at him. But Jesus
hid himself and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by."
And the truth is this, that the Jews, even of the time of the New Testament and definitely
the Jews living today, they do not have the same faith as Abraham and Isaac and Jacob.
Because Jesus was clear about the fact that your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day.
He said that if you believed in Moses, you would believe in me. So what I would say to
anybody listening and what I would honestly say to Adam and to Byron is that Jesus is
the way, the truth, and the life. Salvation is through the Lord Jesus Christ. The Bible
says you must believe on the Lord Jesus Christ to be saved. Salvation is not something you
earn. It's not by works. The Bible says for by grace you're saved through faith and that
not of yourselves. It is the gift of God, not of works, lest any man should boast. But
you do have to believe on Christ and you have to believe that he is who he said he is, that
he is the I am, that he is God. And if you reject that, then you're going to die and
go to hell. And I hope that you will believe on Jesus, believe on the Jesus of the Bible
and get saved, and that you'll believe on everything the Bible teaches. Because if you
understood what the Bible teaches, you would understand that the red heifer is not something
we should be concerned with. Thank you. Okay, Pastor Jimenez, your closing statements.
Thank you very much. I want to once again give a shout out to all of our participants
tonight. Byron Stinson, Pastor Jimenez, Adam King, and Pastor Jonathan Shelley from the Baptist
Bias. We thank the Baptist Bias for hosting this discussion. Is the Red Heifer biblical?
Maybe it made you learn a few things. Maybe it made you want to learn more. And so perhaps
we'll do this again. So for the Baptist Bias, your moderator, Owen Schreuer, signing off.