Hey everybody, thanks for joining us for a special Baptist Bias broadcast.
We're going to actually call on the phone Dr. Chuck Baldwin and we're going to interview
him over the phone and talk about the spiritual condition of America, politics, this is definitely
his forte.
And so we're really excited to call him up, have him on the phone and do kind of a quick
little interview.
So I really hope you enjoy this podcast, if you do make sure to share it, subscribe to
our channels and check out our rumble channel, definitely follow us out there.
We put even more content on our rumble.
Let's go ahead and take a listen.
Thanks so much for agreeing to have a discussion with us today.
I'm going to try and be respectful of your time, so I was just going to kind of jump
into it.
Just to give us kind of an update, are you still pastoring in the Montana area?
Yes, I'm still a pastor of Liberty Fellowship, Kalispell, Montana.
And how long have you been in that church?
Oh, let's see, I've got to add it up, I believe 13 years, I believe.
That's great.
And of course, you're kind of well known as being someone that's kind of an outspoken
right wing American politician.
I guess at one point you were, if I read your Wikipedia page, it says that you were
a presidential nominee in the constitutional party in 2008, is that accurate?
That's correct.
And so obviously you've had your fair share of dealings with politics and that's one
of the things that we kind of wanted to ask you a little bit about is just when it comes
to the structure of our government, do you kind of have a strong opinion as far as where
we should be headed as far as maybe being more libertarian or some people talk about
things like Christian nationalism.
What is your kind of stance when it comes to the structure of maybe where we're at
or where we should be headed and kind of what would be your view as far as like biblically,
what do you think is the best plan for America?
Yeah, I am definitely a constitutionalist, and I believe that the Constitution, by that
I mean the Bill of Rights and the Declaration of Independence as well, our founding documents
provided the American people with the greatest land of liberty that has ever been created
in the history of mankind.
And I am absolutely adamant that the reason we are in the condition that we're in today
is because simply we have ignored and trampled over the constitutional constraints of government
that are found in our founding documents.
And the only way that we're going to reverse that is to return to constitutionalism and
true republicanism, small r.
So yeah, and I do think that has biblical basis.
We could go into a lengthy discussion on that, but when you look at the mechanical makeup
of Israel's tribes in the Old Testament, of course we know that God ruled Israel through
Moses as the prophet of God and man of God who delivered Israel, etc., but when you read
the makeup of Israel itself and the encampments of the nation and then the subdividing of
the country into twelve distinct tribes, every tribe had its own leadership, every tribe
had its own boundaries, every tribe had its own judges, and only the weightier matters
of law were brought to Moses, the rest were taken care of by the local tribes and the
leaders that were appointed or elected, however they did it, at that time.
When you analyze that from a geopolitical point of view, you come pretty close to the
type of government that our founding fathers created for us, a republican, constitutionalist
type of government where you have a federal government that unlike Moses, who was supreme,
the federal government in America is not supreme, there are checks and balances within the system
of federalism, and then you have the state governments which have unique and individual
authority that cannot be trampled by the federal government, then you have the individual militia
of the states which was to be a further check and balance of tyranny and usurpation of liberty,
then you have the jury which was supposed to do the same thing.
So on and on you have the model of constitutionalist republicanism within the structure of Old
Testament Israel.
So I think that the structure that was given to us by our founders was the best one that
could have ever been devised by mankind and it worked for 150, 175 years and only until
the 20th century came and we felt that we were smarter than our founders and we started
to deviate from constitutionalism had we entered into this phase that we're in today.
Well, and a lot of people argue about the system of government that America has and
say that there's a lot of flaws or there's a lot of issues and that if we change the
structure of our government, that would somehow give us more liberty or fix some of the issues
that we're dealing with.
My viewpoint or kind of looking at our current situation, it seems like the structure is
arguably about as good as you're going to get from a basis of human government apart
from obviously Christ ruling himself on earth physically and that really it's just a matter
of culture and the people who are running the system are not following the rules.
Is that kind of a fair assessment?
Do you feel like if we were able to fix the culture and maybe empower the states to put
pressure back on the federal government to behave appropriately that the system doesn't
need much modification.
It's more just the people that are in charge of it actually doing what the constitution
bill of rights and what the founders had framed for us to exercise?
Well, yeah, I certainly agree with everything you said there.
That's exactly what I was trying to get at in my first answer to your question.
Yeah, the system itself is the best that we could ever hope to have, and it worked for
all those years.
And everything you said about the leadership is absolutely true.
We have two parties that pretty much ignore the constitution at will, and unfortunately
they're not held in check and balance by the people themselves, but I would say personally
that the real problem in America today, and you mentioned the culture, and that's certainly
a major problem, but I think the cultural problem is a result of the spiritual problem.
I think America has a huge spiritual problem that cannot be fixed politically at this point
to bring in another system of government of whatever kind we'd come up with, would only
be worse than what we have now.
It would not be better.
The problem is that we have a spiritual church that is AWOL and are not addressing the salient
spiritual issues of the day.
Most of our pastors, I hate to say it, but it's true, but I would estimate, well, it's
really not an estimation, it's pretty much scientific fact.
80% of the evangelical pastors in America today refuse to address the crucial issues
affecting our liberties in this country.
They've taken themselves completely out of "politics," and really, it's not politics,
and I certainly do not consider myself a politician.
We're talking about the affairs of government, and there's a huge difference between political
systems and the affairs of government.
You know, God in His Word speaks to every level of mankind.
He speaks to family, He speaks to work, He speaks to our pleasures, and He speaks to
our responsibilities, He speaks to our spiritual life.
Every part of our life that's important to us is addressed in the Word of God, and the
same thing is true governmentally.
It has copious amounts of scripture, dealing with the principles of good government.
And, you know, when you go back to the Old Testament and you see the conditions of society
that prevailed, which brought about God's judgment, a lot of that had to do with the
governmental structures that took place during that time.
They came to a place where they got into idolatry, they got away from the God of the Old Testament,
they got away from the principles and the laws that He gave them.
And they went into paganism, they went into idolatry, and that affected their governmental
structure.
I mean, the kings of both Israel and Judah, for the most part, were rebels against the
laws of God and the natural laws of God as well. And so God had no choice but to judge them.
And so I think that we have the same similar problem today, which is a spiritual problem. It's
not going to be fixed by politics. It's going to be fixed by pastors speaking up in the Talpots
and teaching the Word of God and addressing the issues of the day. I mean, when you talk about
the moral issues of God, the ethical issues of God, and the good government issues that God has
given to us, those are not political. I mean, if the society says that abortion is politics,
well, that's too bad. Abortion is not politics. That has nothing to do with politics. It has to
do with life. It has to do with the sanctity of life, the preservation and the protection of life.
That's not political. You know, when you talk about the right to keep and bear arms,
that's not political. There's nothing political about it. That's about God's natural law of
self-preservation. It's about God's natural law of self-defense, which is given to us throughout
the Scriptures all in the New Testament. It's not political. You know, when you start talking about
family issues, you talk about liberty issues, these are not political issues. And that's the
problem is the Church has allowed the media to define what is political and what is not political.
And then if the media says, "This is political," and you're talking politics from the pulpit,
and the churches go, "Oh, gee, we don't want to be controversial. We don't want to violate the
separation of church and state, or we don't want people to think that we're a political church,
etc., etc.," then they just say nothing. Well, if you do that, then what you've done is you've
abandoned the battlefield. You've abandoned the entire area where the people of, especially the
churches, need to be instructed, need to be led into the ways that are right, pure, and godly,
but they're not being led because the pastors are afraid to say anything. So you do that to the
media and to the walking heads to make the definitions and to apply those principles the
way they see fit, of course, which is contrary to everything that we know is right as Christians.
Right. It seems like the media is like almost replacing the pulpit and the preachers today.
And I want to make a few statements. I like where you're going talking about media, but
specifically it seems as if even biblically that whenever the children of Israel as a whole,
their culture has shifted away from God. And when I talked about culture, of course, I am
referring to the spiritual condition, just like you mentioned, and I agree with everything that
you said. It seems like God gives them leadership that is even more wicked or more away from God
than even the nation itself. And it seems like to me as America, like the vast majority of people
probably don't even agree with a lot of the decisions that are being made for them by their
politicians, the direction our country is headed. And that, you know, it's really God punishing and
judging our nation for having turned away from the Lord. And, you know, if we as pastors or if the
preachers are not out there preaching what the Bible says to try and draw America back to the
Lord, that there's really only one narrative that's being espoused. And like you mentioned,
it's kind of this media is kind of taking the place social media even a little bit. And if
we're real honest about it, I mean, the media is mostly predominantly controlled by those who
practice Judaism. And so, and they don't have the same viewpoints values, they don't have the same
God, they have a antichrist religion. And if preachers aren't putting forth the opinions of
the Bible or God, I don't see how anybody could even turn back to the Lord, you know, they want
to vote in Trump. But I don't see, you know, election solving our problems. It seems like
the pastors have to be the ones, you know, in this spiritual battle, you know, fighting against the
the lies and deception that are being put forth like never before. I mean, media and social media
and the internet has really expanded so much in the past few decades that it's a very powerful
force. I mean, you know, when it comes to combating this, you know, is there really any option other
than pastors getting up and preaching the Bible? No, I don't think so. I don't think there's a plan
B. And you're exactly right about the comparison that the media has become the pulpit or taken the
place of the pulpit at least, unfortunately. That's exactly true. I mean, you start to think
about it. So, all right, let's say a Christian goes to church every Sunday, which most don't.
And let's say that every Sunday they go to church and they sit in a church where a pastor says
nothing, absolutely nothing, about the issues like we're talking about today. It gives no
spiritual direction whatsoever to what the church should be doing, how they should be understanding
the issues, what the issues are from a biblical point of view, not from a geopolitical point of
view, and teaching them this is what God's Word says, this is the way we're supposed to live,
this is the way we're supposed to stand, here's where our freedoms are in jeopardy and why we
need to protect those freedoms, etc., etc. So they hear none of that, not zero. And so they sit and
listen to about a 20 or 25 minute sermon, which is about the average length of these so-called
homilies today, and then the rest of the week they go home and they watch Fox News. And they watch
Fox News for hours and hours and hours. And then, like I said, they get on social media and they've
got these feeds that they read religiously. And then they post and repost and copy and
recopy. And oh, that makes sense. And oh yeah, I like the way that person's... I mean, they're
getting information from a little bit of everything, a little bit of everybody, a little piece here,
a little piece there, a lot of the media. And the pastor has absolutely no influence whatsoever
when it comes to the issues of government. He's taking himself out of the discussion.
Right. The people are left in a confused state. And I think you're exactly right. I think the
vast majority of American people at their heart, even unsafe people, have basically a decency about
them. They have a moral code of behavior. They know that it's wrong to steal. They know it's wrong
to lie. They have a basic moral fiber about them that they believe is important for their lives.
And so they don't go along with all these wicked evil leaders that we have. But again, the lack
of leadership from the pulpit spiritually has left them shepardless. And let's face it, one of the
duties of the pastor is to be a shepherd and to be a watchman. Well, they're not doing that. And so
the people are shepardless. They don't know what it's... So they just grab everything and everything
that they hear good. Some of it's not so good. Some of it's downright lies and evil. And they're
picking up all this hodgepodge ideas. And it's a floundering society. It's a society without a
foundation, without a really strict understanding of real truth and know how to build and construct
not just your community and your state, but even your personal life and family.
It makes me think of the verse that says, "My people are destroyed for a lack of knowledge."
And they're not getting fed. And I think that they are searching for a shepherd and they're
looking outside the church for individuals like you mentioned, perhaps podcasters, conservative
radio hosts. Trump, I think is another person that a lot of people are kind of looking to
for leadership. And they, as a whole, they're not really looking, they're not really seeking for
pastors. And I think it's kind of twofold. I think there's a lot of pastors that aren't really
worth following anyways. So they're not really resisting the culture. And so that's a problem.
I think there's also a censorship issue where voices that are trying to make a difference
are being throttled and silenced and definitely making it harder for people to maybe find that
particular content. But it seems like to me, if we were going to try and make a pretty big difference,
that it almost has to be kind of a bottom up approach of really rallying a lot of people in
your local area and kind of changing the local politics and having that bubble up to where
potentially you could even get a whole state or you could get a group of states and then eventually
that could put enough pressure to eventually maybe make a difference culturally. But we're
probably talking about a long period of time too potentially here. And I don't see how the
electoral process is going to fix anything in this country. And yet I feel like many people are
that's their only hope. And I think it ties back to something you said where they're consuming
hours of Fox News. They're consuming hours of social media. And that's even motivated me
to even have maybe a separate podcast or shows or things like this. Because I think that a lot of
people, they'll listen to someone that's conservative, maybe a Sean Hannity, Tucker
Carlson, or some of these individuals. And they don't necessarily even agree with them 100%.
But they're just the closest thing to what they agree with. And so they end up tolerating them.
But it ends up influencing them at the end of the day, and they don't realize how much they're
actually shifting their viewpoints, their stances, and they're getting further and further away from
biblical truth. And because their pastor isn't standing in contrast, but in many cases is just
a talking head for Fox News, it really is just a gradual process of people just being led away from
Christianity, the Bible, God as a whole. And it seems like we need some really bold pastors and
individuals that are going to try and draw a lot of people back. You know, from your perspective,
how do you motivate or encourage pastors to actually take a bold stand? Yeah. Listen,
if you can answer that question, you can solve the ills of the country. Amen. What's it going to
take? I've asked that question myself many, many times. What's it really going to take for the
pastors to get out of their willful slumber? And I say willful because it is willful. When you get
them...you know, we've been around pastors all of our lives. You know, I've been at this thing for
over 48 years, and that's how far I go back. And I mean, you can't tell me virtually anything about
pastors that I don't know, that I haven't seen, experienced, heard, been part of in all these
decades. So I know how pastors are. I know how they think. I know what they do. And so when you...
If you go to lunch, let's say you get a handful of pastor friends together from different
denominations even. And so you sit around the lunch table and you have an hour and a half to
chat. Invariably, the subject of the moral/political/cultural condition of our
country will come up. Invariably. At every table discussion, it'll come up. And they will sit there
for 90 minutes. And they will discuss the problems and they will discuss the answers. They'll talk
about, "We've gotten away from the truth. We've gotten away from the basic moral fiber of God's
Word, the basic essential natural laws of God." They may not use that term because many people
don't know about that. But they'll talk about these things in private. So then if somebody
at the table says, "You know, we just spent 90 minutes addressing the issues that need to be
addressed concerning our country. How come none of us talk about that from the pulpit on Sunday?"
And it'll be nothing but deathly silence until somebody changes the subject. Because they know
that they are not doing it instinctively. They know that they are not doing what they should be
doing from the pulpit. And they all have their individual reasons as to why they're not. Let's
face it. Some of them are just naturally cowards. Let's just say like it is, there's some preachers
just cowardly preachers. And then some are looking at it from terms of financial stability.
They don't want to lose their job, quote unquote. They don't want to be fired from the congregation.
They have a 401(k) set up. They have, you know, they get a month or six weeks of vacation every
year. Well, the Degans might vote them out. Yeah, exactly. They have, you know, they have financial
security. They have comfort. They have popularity. You know, they have a fairly comfortable life.
And if they got up and started stirring the waters and they know that some of these people
in the congregation are not going to like it, they know that some are going to leave the
congregation, which means that the offerings are going to go down. They may not be able to hire
as many staff members. I mean, I'm able to build that building that they want to build.
They're looking at all of the ramifications of if I get up and boldly state truth, what ripple
effect is that going to have on the congregation? Some of them are married to the 501(c)(3) Internal
Revenue Code to the point that if they say anything that they are told is outside the
domain of what is proper for a nonprofit government entity, which is what a 501(c)(3) Church is,
then they can move their nonprofit status. And that means that every dollar that's given the
church would not be tax deductible. It means that they'd have to pay sales taxes on everything they
buy. It means that they would be, you know, the property will be taxed, etc., etc., and so that
they want to fall out of the graces of the Internal Revenue Service. You know, there's a lot of
different reasons why they don't do it, but the bottom line is they know that they're not doing it,
and I believe in their heart of hearts. Most of them know they should be doing it,
but they're not doing it. And what it would take to get them to do it, that's the $64 million
question that nobody that I know knows the answer to, because if we did know the answer,
we could do it, and the pastors are the only ones that have it within their power
to change the course of the country. They're the only... We cannot look for Donald Trump to change
anything. A lot of people love Trump, etc., etc. Donald Trump is a corrupt individual. He is not
a man of God. He is not a man that is guided by the principles of God. He doesn't even understand
constitutional government. His first term in office proved how inept he was constitutionally. He
surrounds himself by the same New World Order, C.F.R., globalist kind of people that every
presidential administration had. In fact, Trump had more C.F.R. globalists in his cabinet than
Barack Obama, and he was only in the White House half the time. It's not bashing Trump. I'm just
being realistic. I'm saying... Yeah, I understand. ...looking for answers from a politician are
looking in the wrong place. They need to be looking in the pulpit. They need to be demanding
that their pastors speak the truth and tell people what's going on. In fact, if the people
would say, "Look, if this pastor isn't going to tell me the truth, I'm going to find a pastor
that will." If they would start voting with their feet and leading these circuses, these circus
performances with the lights and all the music and all the rock band stuff and the entertainment
stuff and smoke and mirrors and say, "Look, I want some truth. I want some meat. I want the Lord of
God," and would stop supporting these kinds of churches, that could make a big difference.
As it is, people are staying home. We have over 200 satellite fellowships at Liberty Fellowship.
That's over 200 distinct fellowships where people are willing to put their name on a website,
our website, with an email address saying, "Here we are. We are worshipping every Sunday
at 2.30, and we're watching Liberty Fellowship together as a small congregation because we're
tired of wasting our time in these playground churches, and we want to hear the truth."
And we have over 200 of those satellite fellowships all over the world, literally, that are coming
together to hear the truth.
Well, if more people would begin doing that and showing these compromising pastors that
they're not going to get ahead by continuing to ignore the Word of God and play these games,
I don't know, would that wake some of them up?
Well, I definitely partially agree with you in the sense that, you know, people need to
take responsibility, too.
We can't just only force, you know, we can't just necessarily only affect the pastors and
there's a lot of people out there that are not a pastor and they're wondering what to
do and I agree with you that they should vote with their feet in the sense that they need
to go to a church that is actually going to stand for the truth.
You know, I would hope or prefer people to actually find a physical church they go to
and if they like your church, move, you know, I think they should just move to Montana
or move to a church and it's funny to me that culturally a lot of people are kind of angry
about the Republican Party and they'll say there's all these candidates that are Republican
and name only and they call them rhinos but it seems like we kind of have that issue spiritually
where we have a lot of pastors and name only where they have the title, the accolades and
the salary but they're not really doing the job and people, you know, going to a particular
church makes a big impact. If a pastor is going to preach a 20-minute sermonette, not
really touch on the difficult parts of the Bible, not approach the culture as it is then,
you know, people should go to the right church and I think that, you know, that's a big issue
in America that people are not going to a church that's going to feed them the scripture
that's not preaching the hard truths of the Bible. They would rather have their ears tickled
and, you know, the Bible does mention that that is something that can happen in Second
Timothy chapter four, but you know what, I would highly encourage people to get plugged
in at a church that's going to challenge them, go back against the culture. I mean, if they
really want to make an impact, you know, donating $50 to Donald Trump isn't going to do it.
You know, they got to, they got to get in plugged to a church and, and in my mind, empower
the pastor, you know, be the men that stand there on the sides of Moses lifting up his
arms so that we could actually, you know, make a difference in this culture as opposed
to, you know, staying away from the battle and just hoping that somebody will do it all
for you.
I think that God wants to see a large group of people rally behind the truth of God's
word, not just one man.
There's times in the Bible where there is a leader that's willing to follow God, but
the people didn't go along with the leader and it was still ineffective.
We need both.
We need leadership and we need the people and I appreciate men like you that are willing
to at least be unpopular.
And frankly, it's not like you haven't still had success and you're still pastoring.
I think a lot of people are afraid of a boogeyman out there, but you can still have success
standing on the word of God.
It just may look different, right?
You might not be buddies with the mayor and the police chief and everybody invites you
to their country club membership, but obviously the Zionists probably won't like you.
I think that that might be an issue.
Why a lot of these pastors are kind of being cowards or not preaching the truth is they're
just kind of wrong on doctrine and they're afraid to change because of all the Bible
college fellowships and the groups that they're associated with and, you know, I hope that
independent Baptist churches could be empowered by being independent to preach the truth no
matter what friendships that may cost them.
Yeah.
Amen to all that and I agree with every word that you said and yeah, you're right.
I think our fellowship is a living example of what you're talking about.
I would say that at least 50%, probably more than 50% of our congregation is comprised
of people that moved here from all over the country.
That's great.
You know, that's a major part of our work and people have felt so strongly about the
message of truth that that's exactly what they've done.
So I know that what you're saying is true because I see it in my own congregation.
I mean, people are moving here all the time.
We just recently had two families move here from California and, uh, you know,
they're wonderful people and they just are really plugged in and went to work
and they're serving and, you know, just took them up and it would cost them
something to, you know, it costs something to do that.
You know, it costs you financially.
It costs you among your family.
You know, if you're leaving family behind, you know, that can be a real
heart wrenching thing, you know, whenever the family doesn't see it, you know,
they're blind to it.
Oh, they don't understand why you're doing it.
You're cracked up, you know, all that kind of thing.
So, you know, it's a financial toll.
It's an emotional toll, a family toll.
There's a lot of, there's a lot of reasons why people aren't willing to do
something like that because of the price it would have to pay.
But in spite of that, people are still doing it.
And we see it, we've seen it since we started back in 2011.
And, um, you know, so it's, it's something that you, what you said is
absolutely taking place.
It's not just theory.
It is happening.
And, you know, and I agree that more of it needs to happen.
And I agree with you also about why, you know, it's not happening and why people
are doing it and, and the pastor without a congregation is left pretty much
neutered, you know, ineffective in his, in his ability to proclaim the word.
And as far as, you know, success, I mean, we've had, oh yeah, we've got a lot of
opposition, of course, my, my stand on Christian Zionism and everything is
extremely well known.
But, you know, I'm, I have a lot of people that are in, in, uh, political offices
here in the, in the Valley, the Colta Valley, the Flathead Valley of Montana,
that, um, are friends of mine and we, we get along very well.
And the sheriff is, is a friend and we've got a lot of local people that they do
believe in, in basic liberty.
You know, they, they understand the principles of God when it comes to that.
And they, and they have a love for God and a love for decency and a love for freedom
and a love for their, for the family and all these kinds of things.
And they're not caught up in all this woke agenda.
Right.
It's, you know, that the federal government, the media is pushing.
They're not, they're not part of that.
And, you know, you'd be surprised how many people are out there.
So when they don't go to church at all, but they have an innate loyalty to the
basic fundamental cultural principles of family and decency and honesty and
hard work and all those things.
And, you know, when, when you're preaching the truth of God's word, all
that messes perfectly with, you know, with God's plan for societies and communities.
Right.
And, and so people that, that, that live that way and believe that way, they're
not going to be your enemy, you know, and yeah, we have enemies, we, you know, we
have people that are in the woke agenda, you know, they hate us and, you know,
people that are just giving themselves to this demonic nature that is sweeping
the country morally and ethically in every other way, you know, those kind of
people, yeah, they hate us.
Well, so what?
You know, Jesus was hated by the Pharisees like nobody's business.
And, you know, whenever people have given themselves over to wickedness and to evil,
if they don't hate you, something's wrong with you.
You know, you're not doing something right.
But there's a lot of decent people, God-fearing people in and out of church
that appreciate truth when they hear it.
And so, you know, we've been here long enough now, of course, I was 35 years
down in the Panhandle, Florida, and, you know, we had friends down there
in just about every conceivable political, social station in the community.
And, you know, we've been able to develop those kinds of relationships
here in the Valley as well.
So if this isn't like, you know, you're a hermit and everybody, everybody
in the world hates you and nobody will talk to you, you go to a restaurant,
people spit at you, that's not true.
I mean, you know, we have friends all over the area that really appreciate.
In fact, to show you how that works, we just had the local newspaper,
the daily newspaper, just had an annual best of survey.
You know, they had best of everything.
Right. And they got best of church and best pastor and all that stuff.
Well, I was voted number two best pastor and our church,
Liberty Fellowship was voted number three best best church.
So, I mean, that shows that there's a lot of people that appreciate
the truth that we speak.
And so I think the devil, you know, gives pastors this idea
that if they stand up and they and they speak out on controversial subjects,
that everybody's going to hate them.
And that's not true.
Some people are going to hate them. Right.
And some people are going to walk out.
So what? Count the cost.
You know, but there's a lot of people that are going to love you
because you're preaching the truth.
So, yeah, I like that.
And I think the spiritual wickedness in high places is more kind of what I'm alluding to.
But, you know, where you've had an influence for a while, you've seen a positive impact.
And again, that's kind of what my philosophy is on how to actually make a difference is,
you know, encouraging enough people and maybe the younger generations
that are not going to be a pastor, that are not going to necessarily be in full time Christian
service to become, you know, the sheriff, to become, you know, some of the local city politicians and
to, of course, approach government because there's nothing wrong with government. Government is
ordained by God and we need godly Christians who are willing to take on these roles and to fight
with a lot of the corruption and the evil that's out there. And so, you know, God willing, we would
influence the mayor and the police chief and the sheriff and people that are in positions of
power and cause them to see the light and to fear God. I just, at the same time, I think that
realistically, especially in more liberal parts of the country, that if you are preaching the Bible,
you may face a lot of opposition from some of these individuals considering the just
extreme level of corruption that is going on currently in our nation. And I don't even think
that, you know, I think a lot of the election system has probably been taken over and hijacked.
And so, you know, I don't even think that it's always the will of the people, but it's kind of a
rigged system. And we need some God-fearing people to step up and infect the culture.
Amen. Yeah. And I think that what you're talking about, the corruption in the voting system
probably is more pervasive in the bigger cities and the bigger races like
senatorial races and presidential races and some of these corrupt main cities. And that's another
thing. We don't have time to talk about this, but I think eventually it's inevitable that there will
be some kind of a separation take place in this country. I think that's inevitable too. I mean,
the blue states and the red states is an easy way to say it. I think that's oversimplification,
but let's face it, there are states and communities that are just hellish, demonic even,
their approach to government and how people can stay there forever and subject their families to
that kind of tyranny. They won't be able to do it forever. Well, that frog in boiling pot water
sometimes seems to be kind of surprising how much people put up with if it's slow enough.
I realize that, but really the move has already begun though. I mean, millions,
you don't hear this in the media, but millions of people have left California already. We're
not talking about are going to leave. They've already left. I mean, we've got several hundreds
of them that have come to this area and thankfully most of them are the freedom-oriented kind of
people looking to escape the tyranny of California, not the other way around. California is losing
people by the droves. Chicago is losing people by the droves. New York is losing people by the
droves. They're flying out of New England, like the Baltimore area, Philadelphia. They're leaving
there by the millions and millions. The migration has already begun. It's not talked about because
nobody wants other people to get the idea that, "Hey, this is a good idea. We can actually do this.
We still have the freedom to move." They don't talk about it, but this is going on. A lot of
these tyrannical areas, they are losing tax dollars galore, and they're losing manpower,
and they're losing jobs. San Francisco is the ghost town downtown, just about. It's nothing.
If you've ever been to the West Coast and visited LA or San Francisco and all that,
it's not even safe for employees to go to work there anymore. The same story is happening in
Portland, and the same is happening in Seattle. All of these super liberal, woke areas that are
trying to force this demonic agenda on their societies, their cities are crumbling. The crime
is escalating exponentially. The jobs are gone. The way of life is gone. You can't walk down the
street, even in the daytime, much less at night. People are just getting out. They have no choice.
They're leaving, and they're looking for a free place to live. They're looking for a safe place
to live. That has already happened, and it's going to continue to happen. At some point,
there's going to be a huge geopolitical shift in the makeup of the population of this country.
If the Lord tarries and allows all this to happen in America, I think, again, it's inevitable that
there's going to be a great separation in this country, which I think is eventually going to be
a good thing. Well, I definitely could see something like that happening. I could see
it not happening, too, because I think that those that are in power, the last thing they want to do
is let go of a lot of the natural resources and workforce in some of these more conservative
parts of the country. I think they would prefer to keep us as docile slaves, but I want to be
respectful of your time. And I feel like we could talk for a really long time on these subjects, but
when it comes to fixing our situation, what's within our control, it seems like the best option
and we've kind of discussed this already, but it seems like our best option is to encourage and
empower the pastors around us and get plugged in the local church. I don't want to put words in
your mouth, but is this kind of your assessment as well? Yes, I've been saying it forever.
The answer is in the pulpit. It's the only answer. The answer is the man of God standing up
with the Word of God and the Spirit of God without fear or favor and keep preaching the truth and
letting the chips fall where they may. It's always been, when you look through the Scriptures,
Old and New Testament, that's always been the same solution. Some kind of a man of God.
In the book of Judges, it was the judge that God would raise up. In Moses, it was Moses and Joshua.
And then it was the prophets that came along. And then it was the apostles. And every generation of
Christendom, from the beginning of the Church Age, there had been men of God who stood up
and boldly proclaimed the truth that made the difference. I mean, you look at our own country
in colonial America, there would be no United States without the colonial preaching of the
pastors of New England at that time. You know, these were bold, courageous men who knew nothing
about political correctness and woke agenda and pastors weren't supposed to preach about this,
and they didn't know anything about that. And they just got up and preached the truth of the
Word of God with power and conviction. And it produced two great awakenings in North America,
and it caused the American fight for independence, which gave us the Declaration of Independence,
which gave us our country and the freedoms that we've enjoyed for all these years,
all that would have never happened except for the powerful preaching of the pastors of colonial
America. So, I mean, when you look at history, it's been a consistent theme that God's blessing
and power is upon the pulpits and the Christians that support the pulpits. And when we talk about
God's judgment on America, I have just a little bit of a nuance on that. I think what we're really
saying is it's God's judgment on the Church. When God is just pleased with the Church and the Church
is under judgment, the nation is under judgment. When God is blessing the Church, then the nation
is blessed. So whenever we see the Church become what it needs to be under God, I believe the nation
will become what it needs to be under God. I think that's a great point and I really appreciate you
taking the time to talk with us. And I think that these kind of podcasts and shows are important
just because it gives people an opportunity to listen to things beyond just the sermons and to
kind of get recalibrated back into the spiritual understanding that it's God that gives us the
freedom in the first place. And if we forsake him, then, you know, it doesn't matter how much
constitution, Bill of Rights or whatever's signed up, you know, he can allow tyranny to
reign over our lives. And so I greatly appreciate your time. God willing, maybe we could have
another discussion in the future. There's a lot of other topics I'd like to explore with you, but
I appreciate you so much for giving us time today to talk with us. And God bless you. You
have a great day. All right. Thank you very much. I appreciate you asked me to come on.
Yes, sir. Have a good day. Bye. Thanks so much for joining us. This was a special podcast with
Chuck Baldwin, his pastor in Montana. And it was great to hear from him and his viewpoints
on the spiritual condition of America and the things that we need to do. And don't let this,
you know, podcast escape you. You need to get plugged into a real church, a church that believes
the Bible, that's going to stand on the hard truths of the scripture. And you need to go out
there and preach the gospel, reach your local community. You know, we can't change the culture
and change the community and change our country with just one person. The pastor can't do it
by himself. He needs other people to come alongside of him, to empower him, to encourage him,
to get into the seats, to get into the pews, hear the sermons and to rally the troops. And so we
need people to get plugged into a local church. That is how we're going to change our country
and our culture. God bless you. Have a good day.