Today we cover a documentary that purports to debunk the doctrine of "one saved, always
saved."
It features esteemed scholars such as Jesse Morrill, a street preacher, and Michael Brown,
a Jew, basically.
Together with other guys I've never heard of, they've combined their efforts to make
the audience believe that the word "sealed" doesn't actually mean sealed, and the word
"eternal" doesn't mean eternal, and the word "saved" doesn't mean saved, and that
salvation isn't by works, but you need works to go to heaven.
Make sense?
Yeah, I didn't think so.
This documentary describes itself as thought-provoking, and it promises viewers a deeper understanding
of key scriptures and theological arguments on both sides of the discussion.
But those of us with the discernment of the Holy Spirit realize that, in reality, it's
one long propaganda piece made to promote a damnable heresy.
And it's clear who the filmmakers were targeting this entire time with their film.
Unsaved souls, they can make two-fold more the child of hell than themselves.
Tonight, we examine their arguments and utterly refute their lies, and we'll show you that
the truth is impenetrable.
If you want to get closer to it, you might as well adopt the Baptist Bias.
Thanks for joining us on the Baptist Bias.
I'm your host, Pastor Shelley.
We've got an interesting watch party tonight.
We're going to be watching a documentary on Once Saved, Always Saved.
And a lot of people have actually commented and responded to me over the last few months
asking me to talk about this or make a response to this.
And so I figured what would be the best thing is just, let's just watch it and we can pause
it and make some commentary and of course I'm joined in studio with my co-host, Ben
the Baptist.
How's it going, Ben?
It's going great.
Looking forward to seeing this film here and I can already tell you having watched most
of it that it's really going to piss me the hell off because it's filled with a bunch
of lies and damnable heresy coming from false prophets.
But other than that, I'm sure it'll be a great experience and I'm going to throw it
right back over to you.
Well, I'm glad that you're pumped up and ready to go.
We're not only in the Lonesome 2 tonight, we're going to be joined by The Wider Bin
and so we've got The Wider Bin joining us in studio, or not in studio, from afar, from
a foreign land.
How's it going?
Hey, good.
I've been in the studio so many times but never on this side of things so I'm excited
to be here.
Thanks for having me.
How's everything in Indian land?
It's going pretty good.
I haven't been scalped yet so that's always a good start.
So of course we're joined with Brother Dylan Oz.
He helps lead our church plant in Steadfast OKC and so if you're anywhere in the Oklahoma
area you've got to check out Steadfast OKC.
It's in Oklahoma City.
Thanks for joining us and we're going to have an interesting watch party.
Of course Once Saved, Always Saved is the right doctrine but they put a stupid like
X through the Always Saved which is weird because it's like did they believe that you
were once saved then?
What were they saved from?
How could any one of these people claim that they're currently saved right now if they
can lose it?
I would love to know what exactly they are claiming to be saved from if they think they
could lose it.
The word has a D at the end.
Well they don't have a position.
They're just anti of the truth.
Just anti of the truth.
It's just like well it's wrong but they don't tell you like what their position is.
Why wouldn't they just make a documentary whatever their position is like save by works and you
have to endure it at the end.
Save by works.
That's the documentary.
Save by works.
I wish they would be that honest but the problem is in this film they're going to actually
make the claim that they believe salvation is by faith.
Think about that for a second folks.
If you have some comments you can always put them in the chat.
We may read some of them but we're going to go ahead and just let's pull up the video
and see if we can get started.
How long is it exactly?
Maybe it was like an hour, hour and a half or something like that.
Yeah, it's closer to one hour.
Okay, but we're going to try and speed it up just a hair just so that way we can get
through it.
We can get through it a little bit quicker.
I'll go ahead and kick it off.
Once saved, always saved, flies in the face of the constant teaching of the Bible from
Genesis 1 to Revelation's end.
The major evangelical voices are saying, "You're saved by grace alone.
It doesn't really matter how you live after you're saved.
You're saved."
We might have our lives cut short as a result of sinful living.
We might lose some of our heavenly reward, but no matter what we do, no matter how we
live, we're still saved.
I grew up in an assembly which taught that, that I've accepted Christ and now I'm guaranteed
for all eternity.
And the danger of that is that you tend to relax.
Once saved, always saved makes the wide way acceptable.
We're Christianizing the wide way.
We have cut the whole idea of transformed living.
We've cut it off at the knees.
I believe it's a lot of explanation of hypocrisy in the American church and much of the church
around the world today because there's a lot of people that are living like hypocrites
because they've been taught that they don't have to live holy lives.
I mean, we're talking about heaven and hell.
We're talking about eternal life.
It's not over till it's over.
It's garbage.
No Christian life should be judged in advance of death.
The idea that you can be forgiven, reconciled, cleansed, now live an unrepentant sinful life
and somehow be a child of God is completely contrary to the whole testimony of scripture
and something that was unknown through much of church history.
Well, if you can't be a sinful child, then why would you be punished, like Hebrews says?
Doesn't it make it clear that he chastened and scourged with every son whom he received
with?
Why is he chastening them if they're not disobeying him?
That's a great question.
I also think it's hilarious that they're making -- what are we, 10 seconds into this or whatever?
They're already straw manning our position.
Exactly.
It's like right from the beginning.
They contradict themselves because the first guy, one of the first guys said that there's
no reason to live a godly life and then Dr. Brown says like, "Well, you are going to lose
out in heavenly reward and be punished and you'll have all these consequences," or whatever.
She's like, "Well, which one is it?
Is there no consequences or is there consequences like, you know, of course, zero versus zero
Bible?"
So far, yes.
They'll get to the Bible later.
The early church.
Believers in Once Saved, Always Saved invariably take the high ground historically as though
they're defending the historic faith.
This is incredibly dishonest.
That's because before Augustine's novel teachings in the early 5th century, absolutely no one
in the early church believed in Once Saved, Always Saved.
I know of no patristic scholar or church historian who disputes that fact.
The patristic fathers did not believe in Once Saved.
Well, how many people can we talk to from back then to make sure that that's true?
You can't just call them up and ask them?
Also, I mean, when did the Catholic Church teach salvation by faith anyways?
At no point did the Mormon Church teach the right gospel.
Okay, sure, the Catholic Church is in a good church.
I mean, like, at no point did Islam ever believe the Bible.
It's like, okay, well, sure, but, you know, we're not Catholic, so.
They'd always say they believed there was a possibility of turning from Christ.
And so they would have a position much like modern Armenians on the possibility of apostasy.
There wasn't some kind of airtight guarantee of salvation, regardless of your belief or
behavior.
And the Christians were known for their changed behavior.
They were a community that was different.
Those were the days when people were being martyred for the sake of their faith.
They wouldn't deny Christ.
I mean, they only had to say one word, and they wouldn't be killed.
But they wouldn't do it.
They were so faithful.
And such people understand the doctrine much clearer than we who live in such comfort today.
The first generation of Christians after the apostles were in a unique position to make
a bold statement that no generation of Christians ever since has been able to make.
This is the faith that was handed to us by the apostles.
In fact, the first generation of these Christians were personally discipled by the apostles.
Men like Clement of Rome, Ignatius, and Polycarp.
They had inherited a Bible that taught people to believe, to obey.
They knew no other way in the early church than faithfulness over the long haul.
The early church fathers actually warned against the idea of once saved always saved because
that doctrine was found not within any Christian churches at the time, it was found among the
Gnostics.
The Gnostics were heretics who denied that the God of the old...
So, okay, number one, why don't we just go to the apostles, why don't we just go to
the source itself, the text, we don't need these other people.
Secondly, they're like, "Oh, there were people teaching it."
So at first they say there's no one that believes this and then they claim that there's other
people that do believe this.
Now again, Gnostics are cult-leading weirdos, so I'm not trying to justify their position,
but it's kind of funny that they now are bringing up people that did supposedly believe
this, right?
Yeah, that's contradiction number two that you just pointed out.
So, I do want to ask, before we get off topic, what is Dr. Brian, you said he's a Jew basically,
what does that mean?
He's such a Judaizer to the point of ridiculousness that he's basically a Jew.
Okay, so he's not a Jew, he's basically a Jew.
Right.
What is that?
I thought he was a Jew.
No, he's essentially one, but he isn't really.
Are you sure?
Isn't Dr. Brian a literal Jew?
I think he may be, I don't know.
He claims Christ is what I mean by that statement.
I want, let's, let's fact check this real quick because I thought that for sure he was
Jewish.
I just want to point out this was a fail of an intro for their movie because right off
the bat, they just give this straw man that people that believe once saved, always saved
say that it doesn't matter how you live your life.
Then the second guy they showed, I was so confused.
I thought he was a proponent of once saved, always saved from saying, well, you're gonna
have a terrible life.
And then they just go straight to the patristic fathers.
It's like, this is your argument going to the patristic fathers.
It was definitely a bad intro because it's confusing.
It didn't make sense.
Here's Dr. Michael Brown.
Ben, what is the first line?
I can't read that.
You have to...
As a Jewish new believer, I was confronted with what felt like impossible questions with
my new faith, Jewish identity, the Bible and more.
I just wanted to make it clear because he is a Jew.
We can go back to the video if you want.
Maybe I should, I'll try to...
He doesn't claim to reject Jesus Christ.
He claims to believe in Jesus Christ.
He does claim that.
He is a Judaizer.
Right.
But he's a Jew, too.
He's not basically a Jew.
He's all the way Jew in every sense.
So I just wanted to make that clear.
All right, we'll keep playing the video here.
Testament is the same God as the God of the New Testament.
They also believe that our flesh was inherently corrupt.
Furthermore, they denied that Jesus had come in the flesh.
And John refers to them in 1 John 4 verse 3 as the Antichrist.
And in their refutations of the Gnostics, they would mention how these Gnostics believed
that you could never fall away from the faith, that you were essentially eternally secure.
Origen wrote about one group of Gnostics.
He said, quote, "They essentially destroy free will by introducing ruined natures incapable
of salvation and by introducing others as being saved in such a way that they cannot
be lost."
Aaron A. States, but as to themselves, speaking of the Gnostics, they hold that they shall
be entirely and undoubtedly saved, not by means of conduct, but because they are spiritual
by nature, it is impossible that spiritual substance by which they mean themselves should
ever come under the power of corruption, wherefore also it comes to pass that the most perfect
among them, adict themselves without fear to all kinds of forbidden deeds of which the
scriptures assure us that they who do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Well, I would like to point out one thing about this.
Number one, this is obviously not written in English.
So this was translated and when it has the word they, how do we know that they're talking
about Gnostics and how do we know that they're not bringing up just there's people out there
that believe in salvation by faith and you can't lose your salvation and of course they're
apart from these Catholic Church institutions which are just like today teaching a workspace
salvation.
So it's funny how they basically say no one believed this and then it's like well there
are all these people that believed it but they weren't the patristic fathers.
Well I'm not Catholic so like why do I have to care what these, and again these guys aren't
even necessarily real Catholics, they're kind of proto-Catholics because Catholic Church
doesn't start until Constantine but I'm just saying like do we know for sure that the they
is the Gnostics here Ben?
No I don't believe so and obviously the purpose of this is to try to use patristic evidence
to debunk a doctrine, well the problem is that is not our final authority.
Our final authority is Scripture so you can give me as many quotes as you want and mine
them from all kinds of historical figures, it's not going to put a dent in what I believe
because I appeal to Scripture and not patristic evidence.
Well they're baby baptizing weirdos, I mean read some of these guys' comments on other
doctrines, they believe all kinds of weird heresies and stuff so I don't claim them
as my father.
I don't claim them either, I would say that I don't mind using quotes from them if we're
going to just prove that a received text reading existed in the second or third or fourth century,
that's fine, but I'm not going to appeal to them to try to defend my doctrine.
I use them to prove that heretics existed and if we were to look at him, he looks kind
of like maybe Dylan's descendant, I mean he's pretty white there so, you know, it could
be his patristic father but I don't know that it's definitely not Ben's in any sense of
the word.
Someone asked in the comments, what is patristic?
Patristic is just talking about like the paternal, the paternal aspect.
Paternal, yeah.
Paternal is talking about like your father.
So it's just saying like, yeah, it's in a spiritual context.
So this filmmaker is a Jew?
Yeah.
Well, I don't know if he made it or not.
We're talking about a bunch of Catholic fathers.
Okay.
I'm trying to figure out what is going on.
He was interviewed.
Who made this?
Ben?
A bunch of people.
Not one.
So it's like-
One deer.
That was impressive.
And we just want to let everybody know that a bunch of people made this.
Yeah.
We'll just keep playing.
Just keep rolling the video.
Oh, man.
Us down, that is the true Christians, who from the fear of God guard against sinning
even in thought or word, as utterly contemptible.
Cyprian said, "You are still in the world.
You are still in the battlefield.
You daily fight for your lives, so you must be careful that what you have begun to be
with, such a blessed commencement, will be consummated in you.
It is a small thing to have first received something.
It is a greater thing to be able to keep what you have attained.
Faith itself and the saving birth do not make a life by merely being received, rather they
must be preserved."
Justin Martyr, I hold further that those of you who have confessed and known this man
to be Christ, yet who have gone back for some reason to the legal dispensation and have
denied that this man is Christ, and have not repented before death, you will by no means
be saved.
In the beginning of the 5th century, Augustine, who was the bishop-
What was that quote?
That was just a quote that was saying you have to believe in Christ to be saved?
Yes.
What does that have to do with eternal security?
Was he talking about people who stopped believing in Christ?
I don't know.
It wasn't clear.
I didn't see it.
Maybe I didn't understand it.
You lay the foundation for the modern doctrine of once saved, always saved.
You get then to Augustine, Augustine of Hippo, who starts off like the fathers that came
before him, and then he evolves into something much more akin to what we would call Calvinism
today.
Augustine is the big transition figure.
No question.
Early on, he was not someone who affirmed eternal security.
At first, he taught the freedom of the will in his early Christianity, but in his later
Christianity, he began to deny free will.
Augustine was a Manichaean Gnostic for about nine, ten years of his life before he became
a professing Christian and ended up becoming the top theologian of the Roman Catholic Church.
Now, in the early fifth century, a British monk named Pelagius criticized a statement
that Augustine had made in his confessions.
Augustine had declared to God, "Grant what you command and command what you desire."
Well, this made it appear that everything in our obedience comes from God and nothing comes
from man.
And rather than admitting that he had overstated things in his confessions, he swung 180 degrees
in the opposite direction of the historic faith and declared that man can do absolutely
nothing toward his own salvation.
He said that every bit of our salvation comes from God, from our initial faith, our obedience,
and our enduring to the end.
Augustine swung the pendulum in the opposite direction, more in the direction of his mannequin.
Sounds like he was carried about with every wind and doctrine.
Can you imagine going 180 degrees in your faith?
No, I mean when you have the Holy Spirit, when you're sealed with the Holy Spirit,
you're not going to deviate like that on core doctrine.
So trying to, I don't know what that was, trying to hold up someone as an example who
flipped 180 degrees is not exactly authoritative, first of all, and second of all, it's not
very convincing either.
What do you think, Dylan?
What I think is that so far this documentary definitely would appeal to people that don't
care about the Bible because it's just a bunch of glazed over, mind numbingly boring quotes
from church fathers that no one cares about or at least should care about.
And so I could see how someone who doesn't really care what the Bible has to say would
be interested in listening to all this.
But I'm just sitting here thinking like, "Okay, well, show us from the Bible how eternal security
isn't true.
I'll wait."
Not the apostles.
Well, they will.
The patristic fathers.
Yes.
But to be fair, they will get to some of their proof texts later in the film.
They're laying the groundwork.
They wanted to start with quotes first, because that's more important.
Are these guys King James only?
No.
They're going to use a mishmash of different translations later in the film.
And so we'll get to it.
But I think the graphics look kind of cool, and I'll give them credit for that.
Autisticism, which had a view that they were the elect among the Manichaeans.
And the elect, you know, they were, once they were saved, they were always saved.
They would persevere in the Manichaean faith, which was not Christian at all.
This resurrection of Gnostic teaching by Augustine should have sent shockwaves throughout the
church.
But Augustine wrote in Latin, and so much of what he said was never read by the Greek-speaking
Eastern Christians.
And they never adopted his theology.
His impact might have been much less if there hadn't been much later an Augustinian monk
named Martin Luther.
In the Reformation of the 16th century, you have Luther, who believes, just like the fathers
on this, he believes that it is possible to commit apostasy.
He actually comes against the teaching of "once saved, always saved," but he did believe
that there were certain people that were given the special gift who were the elect who would
be given the gift of perseverance.
His view of perseverance seems to be the same as Augustine, that we can never be sure
in this life that we will be given the gift of perseverance until the day of our death.
For Luther, there was the warning of final damnation for those who fell away and walked
away from the faith.
So it's really amazing.
You have "once saved, always saved Dr. Repudi" by the early church, you know, the first three
centuries of church history.
You have Augustine picking it up from the Gnostics and bringing it into the church,
and only teaching that the elect among saved people will persevere and no one knows who
they are.
And then you have it going to John Calvin.
I think Calvin is one who takes it even further.
I guess that's what we call Calvinism, not Lutheranism.
"Once saved, always saved," as we know it today, actually stems back to John Calvin
and his followers.
He wrote his work of systematic theology entitled "Institutes of the Christian Religion," which
is largely built on Augustine's teachings.
He says that his whole theology could be systemized through by just quoting Augustine's teaching.
The main difference between Calvin and Augustine is that although Augustine emphasized that
we cannot know for certain until the day of our death that we are of the elect, Calvin
emphasized that there are clear indications in this life.
But it was Calvin who basically took that last idea that the elect are given to give
to perseverance and said that all Christians, anyone who comes to Christ and receives him,
has to give to perseverance and will be finally irrevocably and inevitably saved.
So Calvin diverged from the tradition that came before him.
He even diverged from what other Reformation leaders taught.
But then after him, the Baptists, most of them, I'm free will Baptist, but most of
the Baptists diverge with him from the Christian tradition.
The Reformed Presbyterian tradition diverges with Calvin from the mainstream Christian
tradition.
But then when you look at the rest of Christianity today, they don't believe in once saved always
saved, or the certain first appearance of the saints.
The majority of Christians in America or elsewhere don't affirm the idea of eternal security.
That's just not part of their DNA, the whole Methodist denomination, I mean the second
largest Protestant denomination.
Doesn't the Bible say broad is the way which leads to destruction?
Exactly.
Yeah, and many go in...
Yeah, I mean...
And many there be which go in there at.
Many there be which go in there at.
I personally don't think that this is a good argument either because you're just trying
to make the point that, well, if most people believe X, X must be true.
And that's counter scriptural as you point out with that famous passage.
And so, as far as this argument is concerned, it's like, okay, so what?
Again, my authority is scriptured, not that which is popular.
It's also...
I mean, again, the first Baptist is supposed to be John Smith.
I don't know that it's a perfect, you know, little tree diagram that they have.
It's like all Baptists come from Calvinists.
I don't...
Yeah, what in the world is that?
In America, it's the United Methodist Church.
You have the Restoration Movement, like Christian Church is church.
United Methodist Church loves facts.
And then across the charismatic circles, we would largely hold to the idea of you can
forfeit your salvation.
The Anabaptist movement almost uniformly believes that it's possible for a true believer to
apostatize from the faith.
It would be an odd thing to accuse Lutherans, even, or Episcopalians of being Calvinists.
So the vast majority of Christians do not believe in what's saved always saved.
This has never meant total perfection or sinlessness.
Here we go.
It has always meant faithfulness.
Every one of us, every single day, falls short of the holiness of God, and every day we live
by grace and by mercy and by the cleansing blood of Jesus.
That's the foundation.
The possibility of sin exists until Christ comes and we are transformed into His image.
1 John 2.1 is the answer to that.
If anyone sins, it immediately says there is a possibility that you'll sin, but then
you have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.
If you sin, you can go before the throne of grace boldly.
It's the difference between falling in dirt and rolling in dirt.
I've stumbled in the 30 years I've walked with God, but the Spirit of God had me to
get up and get up quick.
If I slip up, I'm careless perhaps sometime, I immediately, my conscience convicts me,
I say, "Lord, please forgive me," but I take that sin more seriously because I don't want
to hurt my Lord.
Recognizing that believers will fail as the followers of Jesus failed in the Gospels themselves
is a crucial understanding of the Christian life.
They will have some good days and some bad days, but the pattern of our life over time
is faithfulness and a steady growth.
By pattern of life shall you be saved.
It's not that we're teaching sinless perfection.
We're teaching perfect faithfulness until the day you die.
By a good enough pattern.
What is the pattern that you have?
I expect your child to remain the same level, physically, intellectually, in every way,
always doing the same foolish things.
I think that's the diagram maybe that they were in.
As long as you're generally going this way, you're okay.
If your child is not going emotionally, intellectually, physically, in every way, you're okay.
This is how the Christian life is.
From glory to glory.
That is God's will for us.
Did you know that...
Wow, here we go.
It's just part one, just over.
Sinless perfection.
We're just...
No one's perfect.
Okay.
That didn't even mean anything.
There are over 80 passages in the New Testament that warn Christians not to lose what they've
got in Christ.
Eighty passages?
Eighty.
Wow.
And most of them are ignored or overlooked or not preached about, but they are serious.
You have many, many warnings in the New Testament about the possibility of apostasy.
It's consistent through the Gospels, the epistles.
It's consistent through the whole Bible.
Here we go.
Here's your Bible.
Proof.
In his book, "Major Bible Themes," Louis Sperry Schaeffer, a strong advocate of One
Saved, Always Saved, he makes this statement, "As many as 85 passages are listed by those
holding the Arminian view as establishing the doctrine of conditional security."
So he acknowledges the great weight of scripture behind conditional security.
We have warning passages in James and Peter and John.
It's very difficult to think of any New Testament document that doesn't refute One Saved, Always
Saved.
John 9.9.27, one of the clearest passages in all the entire Bible that you can forfeit
your salvation because nobody's in doubt the apostle Paul said, "Do you not know that in
a race all the runners run, but only one receives the prize?
So run that you may obtain it.
Every athlete exercises self-control in all things.
They do it to receive a perishable wreath, but we an imperishable one.
So I do not run aimlessly.
I don't box as one beating the air.
I discipline my body and keep it under control lest after preaching to others, I myself should
be disqualified, disqualified, put out of the race.
Not a question of coming in second or third, disqualified."
It's amazing because he used that word to dock the mosque elsewhere when talking to
the Corinthians or writing to the Corinthians and he stayed.
A dock the mosque.
Wow.
Wait a second.
So are they saying that only one person in the whole world is going to get saved?
Seemingly.
I mean, like, what was the argument?
Only one receives the prize and then the prize is salvation?
If you're going to make the prize salvation, are they not literally, did they not just
teach that only one person in the whole world would be saved?
That's seemingly what they were teaching, yeah.
Okay.
I have, so again, I have it pulled up.
But I think we should read it, we should read the passages they bring up in the real Bible.
Yeah, I have 1 Corinthians 9 pulled up on my screen, I don't know if we can swap to
the other screen.
There we go, I love my crew, folks.
Just kidding.
I do love them.
Well, don't you really love them?
I do love them.
I'm going to five seconds.
I'm just backing up, we got to do that at least once.
Overhead shot, please.
Pause it!
Back in five seconds.
All right.
Yeah, so they brought up 1 Corinthians 9.
Know you not that they which run in the race run all, but one receive at the prize, okay?
So run that you may obtain, and every man that strives for the mastery is temperate
in all things.
Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown, but we an incorruptible.
I therefore so run, not as uncertainly, so fight I, not as one that beat at the air,
but I keep under my body and bring it into subjection, lest that by any means when I
have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.
So again, he's saying he wants to win the prize.
The prize is a crown.
The crown is going to be given as a reward of the works that you do and he doesn't want
to be cast away.
You know, I think of it this way.
Steadfast Baptist Church had a pastor who was on a good track, but then he ended up
disqualifying himself and was in a sense a castaway from that position.
And so he's no longer striving for the mastery in that particular position.
That doesn't mean he couldn't still serve God and doesn't mean he couldn't still do
things for God, but in the context of being a pastor, he's a castaway.
And of course, isn't there many people like Demus hath forsaken me, having loved this
present world, isn't he in a sense a castaway and not really doing anything for the Lord
in his life?
I mean, this would be stopping running the race, but they would have to teach them that
salvation is by being perfect and keeping the race perfectly.
I mean, that's what they're saying, right?
Yeah, that is what they're saying.
And they're taking a passage that they claim is so clearly teaching you could lose your
salvation.
And in reality, it's one of the clearest passages you can find about heavenly rewards
and the rewards that are waiting for us in heaven.
If we stay engaged in the race and we stay faithful and we continue to do works for God,
there is an incorruptible crown waiting in heaven for those who've achieved that.
It's clearly not about salvation.
But this is what happens when you have a bunch of people, A, who are using wrong Bibles,
and B, who don't have the Holy Spirit.
And when they don't have the Holy Spirit, the Bible says, "The natural man receiveth
not the things of the Spirit of God."
They can't understand the Bible.
They don't have Him guiding them into all truth.
So they read a passage like this, and they automatically assign salvation to it when
that is not what this is about.
And that'll be the common theme tonight, is that you'll hear us saying this a lot, that
this passage is not about salvation.
This is the first example of them making a passage that's not about salvation about salvation.
Well, I think what's important, though, is he said that this is the clearest passage.
So just going into this documentary, let's say you didn't know much about the Bible and
they said, "Here's a clear passage on you can lose your salvation."
Wouldn't you expect to see something like, "You're going to lose your salvation if you
do this," or, "Your salvation has been taken from you," or, "Because you sinned, you're
no longer going to heaven."
This verse doesn't even bring up any of those concepts.
It doesn't, not once.
Whereas the Bible explicitly says the opposite and plenty of passages in the fact that no
man will pluck you out of Jesus' hand or the Father's hand.
You have eternal life, you should never perish, you're sealed into the day of redemption.
Like, if we look at the flip side, it's not only that it's clear, it's saying the words
that we would want them to say.
This has nothing to do with losing salvation.
It doesn't use the word salvation, eternal life, going to heaven.
It has nothing to do with that, and they say this is their clearest verse.
Just keep that in mind.
I mean, do you see anything about salvation here, Dillon?
I've actually never even heard someone use this passage to try to teach what they're
saying.
Maybe I'm just ignorant of what these people teach, but I've never heard someone make
that stretch because it's a huge stretch.
The Bible doesn't talk about people that go to hell as being a castaway, which they didn't
even use that word in their false Bible version.
It talks about people that perish.
Disqualified.
Yeah, disqualified.
Being disqualified, that's not what the Bible talks about when someone goes to hell.
It's like, they perish, they're cursed, they're damned.
Disqualified?
I mean, it sounds like I'm a little overweight for a fight weigh-in or something, burning
in hell for all of eternity.
Yeah.
That's insane.
Someone put in the comments, they said, "This is the first video that pops up when you
search once saved, always saved."
That's so sad because, you know, it used to be Pastor Anderson's sermon, which had
been watched by hundreds of thousands of people.
Great sermon, if you can find Once Saved, Always Saved by Pastor Steven Anderson, you
need to check that out.
It's like the devil just took over YouTube and just basically is just putting these lies
from Jews.
That's weird.
It's weird that like a documentary with a Jew teaching false doctrine, Once Saved, Always
Saved is now on here.
It's almost like there's a conspiracy to hide the truth.
Let's keep playing otherwise we're never going to get through this video.
In 2 Corinthians chapter 12, he warns in verse 21 of those who have not yet repented of their
sexual morality, their sin and so forth, and he warns them that they must examine themselves
in chapter 13 verse 5.
He says, "Examine yourselves.
Attest yourselves to see whether or not you are in the faith, unless you are a docomos."
He used the same exact Greek word.
He defines a docomos as being without Christ, as not being in the faith anymore.
Now he's a great apostle Paul who's taken up the third heaven and planted churches,
written scriptures.
Again, it says accept you're a reprobate.
So total false versions.
And if you're in the faith, then you're already saved.
He's saying, he wasn't contrasting someone losing their salvation, it was like, are you
saved or not?
That was the comparison.
And that's because he was being falsely accused and attacked and he's like, you're going to
be unsaved.
Exactly.
He says, you're going to attack me.
Well, are you in the faith?
How about you check yourself, but disqualified.
What a terrible replacement.
Well, it's a, it's a documos clearly.
I mean, the guy speaks Greek and so, yeah.
What does he say about himself?
If ever there was a person who deserved to go to heaven because he served the Lord, it's
Paul.
But he says, I discipline my body.
Verse 27, if Paul lives with the feeling that it could be distantly possible that I would
be put out of this race, how can we say, no, you can't be put out of the race no matter
what you do?
And then he goes on to say, I'll give you some examples.
Ignore the chapter division.
In chapter 10, he says, remember the people who came out of Egypt, baptized into Moses
in the Red Sea and all that?
Nevertheless, verse five, with most of them, God was not well pleased and they were perished
in the wilderness.
He's connecting to that with what he just said that I could be disqualified.
And verse 11, these things are happened to them as an example and were written for our
instruction.
Here's the important thing, the one who thinks he stands, let him be careful, lest he does
not fall.
So you could be punished with death if you sin grievously against the Lord.
Again, what does that have to do with losing your salvation?
They're not showing anything that has to do with salvation or eternal life or losing it.
They're just, I like how he just said, Moses and all that stuff.
Let's just get over, let's just get to this passage I want to say, disqualified.
The children of Israel in the wilderness entering the promised land could have multiple applications,
but one of them is the Christian life.
I think the whole journey starting from the exodus all the way to them inheriting the
promised land is an analog for the Christian life, starting at salvation and ending with
you receiving your inheritance in heaven.
Someone put in the comments they said about eternal life specifically.
They're saying if you don't believe in eternal security, then you don't believe in ever-stopping
life, but I like this point but I would just say everlasting, I mean the Bible says everlasting
life.
What does that even mean for these people?
Again, they would have to say it's post-death, but at the same time the Bible says clearly
that he that believeth in the Son hath everlasting life and shall not come into condemnation
of its path from death and life.
So, well maybe we can show some verses later, but this is a sad, honestly you know what's
sad is that how many people have watched this garbage like this isn't even compelling at
all.
Behold then the kindness and severity of God to those who fell severity but to you God's
kindness if you continue in his kindness otherwise you also will be cut off.
In Romans chapter 11 Paul makes very clear declarations that you can absolutely forfeit
your salvation.
Paul is giving a warning to believers that just as Israel we see was cut off and the
Gentiles were grafted in it says we should not have any reason to be boastful because
says we could also be cut off but let me tell you he says you're only going to continue
to be grafted in if you continue to trust if you continue to live in his goodness if
you don't you'll be cut off just like they were.
That's funny because the whole context is the fact that they didn't believe the whole
context is that they were never saved so this people this is just this is just trash again
it's not that they believed and then lost their salvation he didn't say continue to
believe nor does the passage bring up continue to believe this is talking about specifically
if you don't boast against the branches now again they have to use all these modern bible
versions here i wonder if we can pull this i'm going to see if i can well the bible roman's
11 20 i think expresses the point you just made it says well because of unbelief they
were broken off verse 23 and they also if they abide not still in unbelief shall be
graphed in for god is able to graph them in again so there's a distinction made between
those who believe and those who don't i think it's also very important to mention that romans
chapter 11 is obviously in reference to nations and he's making a comparison between the nation
of israel and gentile nations pastor shelley well and i want to read verse 23 in the king
james so look what it says here it says and they also if they abide not still in unbelief
notice it wasn't that they were believing and then went into unbelief no they they're
still in unbelief because they never believed there wasn't this is talking about the physical
nation of israel being cut off as a nation and no longer being this physical nation of
israel why because they're still in unbelief it's not that they were believing and then
and then stop believing and that's the whole point of roman's chapter 11 is the physical
nation of israel not whether or not you go to heaven in fact that was covered in chapter
10 why didn't they go to chapter number 10 where it clearly tells you how to be saved
they want to go to chapter 11 and talk about the physical nation of israel let's go back
to the video and we'll keep playing did dylan want to you can go ahead and say something
do you want to chime in also yeah also verse 19 or verse 20 it says well because of unbelief
they were broken off so why was it that they stopped being god's chosen people to begin
with was it because they didn't continue living faithful lives they didn't continue running
the race no it was because they didn't have faith in christ and thou standest by faith
so why are we saved because we're living a faithful life and living a good life no it's
because of our faith in christ be not high-minded but fear for if god spared not the natural
branches the jews take heed lest he also spare not thee of course it's not like gentiles are
just special if gentiles don't believe in christ they'll be cut off too but again the deciding
factor for whether someone's saved is not whether or not they're running the race
pending of their sins living you know a faithful life until the end it's whether or not they have
faith in jesus christ continuing in his goodness which again is a vague phrase that nobody knows
what that even means they're not explaining that they're not explaining the context they're not
it's just cherry picking work anytime the word continues in the bible we just have to cherry
pick it out and then pretend like it has something to do with losing your salvation yeah let's let's
keep playing this video let's see how you could state it any more clearly look carefully
and the severity of god impossible who felt severity talking about the jewish people
but to you kindness if there's a big if if you continue in his kindness why does the bible use
the word if it should if it's once it's always saved it should say you know when there's no if
ands or buts about it it's a it's a guaranteed thing he says don't be high minded or conceited
but fear you mean like whosoever believes in him should not perish but have a life like that girl
like if you believe yeah i guess it doesn't come on man if the word if's ever found in a bible then
you can't have eternal security now for if god did not spare the natural branches he will he
spared you the problem for the ones they've always saved crowd with this verse is that they say it's
impossible to fall away and if it's impossible to fall away then uh there's no reason to fear
at all some once they'd always say people say well paul just kind of warning the gentiles
corporately he's just warning gentiles that they need to recognize the jewish position and so
forth uh they're trying to divert you i'm sorry look at what the text actually says he's not
talking to gentiles in general he's one of those who stand by their faith you don't tell somebody
at your work that or a neighbor that doesn't know jesus that they stand in christ by their faith and
they need to keep the faith or be cut off that makes no sense at all you've been grafted into
this wonderful olive tree but if you are not faithful we'll cut you off as well so faithfulness
is a requirement and i encourage that anybody who lives in this look at what the text says
quit trying to explain the way in view of a theology that you want to uphold uphold the
word of god and change your theology amen that was the end of that last statement hey they should
actually you know listen to themselves on that last statement how about y'all explain all the
verses that are clear on salvation that actually talking about it in context before we talk about
this roman's chapter 11 passage i mean he's like it's not talking about Gentiles as a whole okay
well then show me the proof that it wasn't talking about Gentiles and whole yeah he wants to make it
seem like the passage is about individual salvation and not about corporate nations which is amazing
to me i mean it starts off by saying have god cast away his people plural so it's obviously
referring to groups of people and it could make sense if you think about it this way like it's
possible for me to make the statement steadfast baptist church is a believing church and it is
saved but it may not always be in god's kindness and goodness in that sense if we don't always
if we don't continue meaning it's possible that another generation comes potentially god forbid
right some other generation way down the road comes in and they're all heretics and they believe
in work salvation what can we look at the nation of uk the nation of uk was a pretty uh historically
christian nation it was a powerhouse of christianity the king james bible and and now they have not
continued in christianity and look how they've fallen from the grace of of our lord and savior
jesus christ and they're being importing the third world and muslims and all kinds of horrible
problems and issues as a result of that and they could even lose their nation so we could see uk
losing their nation just like israel lost their nation why why did they lose their nation because
they continued in unbelief because they were still in unbelief that's at least an explanation for the
passage i have no idea what the heck they're trying to argue and it does not fit the context
whatsoever nor did it say anything clear they're just a bunch of lying you know unsaved idiots
frankly i want to keep hebrews has uh at least a dozen passages that refute one saved always
saved chapter 6 and 10 seem to just say bluntly you can lose your salvation for in the case of
those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made
partakers of the holy spirit and have tasted the good word of god and the powers of the age to come
and then have fallen away it is impossible to renew them again to repentance since they again
crucify to themselves the son of god and put him to an open shame hebrew six is another i believe
just categorically clear passage uh that teaches that people can once be saved and actually forfeit
salvation there are three popular responses by proponents of eternal security to the warning
passages the first is these are not true believers that are being addressed the second is these texts
are not talking about the loss of salvation they're talking about the loss of rewards the third is
god is using these warnings to get believers to persevere even though he knows they cannot
help but persevere the book of hebrews so the last one is deception which again they didn't
it's like well i guess the last one is that they need to keep persevering under the end which
would be a deception because they're going to persevere no matter what well again in what
context are they going to persevere in their faith or persevere in their works and again hebrew six
you know they're using a modern version so sometimes the language gets a little bit misguided
a little bit weird there i'm going to see if i can pull it out but even in their version it said
that something was impossible right it was impossible to renew them again under repentance
that's the king james i can't remember it said it said impossible back it up five seconds let's
we can we can do this it did say impossible to come to repentance again or something like that
it's impossible to renew them again oh there you go repentance so i'm just saying i'm just saying
like no matter how you interpret this passage you have to say something's impossible yeah now
what we would say is that it's impossible to lose your salvation that's what it's saying
because it says renew them again to repentance well what was the repentance in the first place
well see if you can go to my screen for a second hebrews chapter number six what is the repentance
in hebrews chapter six verse one it says the foundation of repentance from dead works and of
faith toward god so saying we're not going to lay again the foundation of repentance from dead works
and of faith toward god what would be repentance from dead works ben i assume they would respond
by saying i don't care what they say what is it what does it mean i believe it's works that
aren't going to get you to heaven instead of relying on your works you're relying on god instead
you're relying on the lord jesus christ so by by me following the works of the law am i going to
get into heaven or are they dead to me are they dead works the law is dead to you yeah exactly so
i i need to repent from the works of the law giving me salvation and put my faith toward god
and that's what saves me and isn't that the foundation i mean what's the foundation mentioned
everywhere else in scripture the foundation which no man can lay jesus christ himself exactly so the
foundation of our faith everything about our faith is the foundation is believing in jesus christ and
getting saved so once you've laid down that foundation what this passage is saying it is
impossible for those and then it gives all these descriptions they're enlightened they have that
they've tasted the heavenly gift they're a partaker of the holy ghost they tasted the good word of god
and the powers of the world to come now here's the thing i don't make a huge deal about these
typically when i'm explaining this passage but but i think it's important to think about this
enlightened is talking about sight and the salvation is often referred to as seeing and so
you you have the sight you've tasted which means a short duration of the heavenly gift so we have
tasted of uh of everlasting life we don't have we haven't fully experienced that yet but we've
we've tasted that it says a partaker of the holy ghost we've been sealed the holy spirit of promise
is what the bible says when you believe in the lord jesus christ says you've tasted the good word
of god i like this you know this proves that you have to have a little bit of bible to get saved
right and they take they got at least something you don't have to have the whole bible to get
saved but you tasted at least something right you got a john 3 16 you got an axe 16 30 and 31 you
got you got some salvation verses in there you've tasted that and then of the powers of the world
to come we talked about heaven and hell also then it says uh if they shall fall away so it's not
even it's not even talking about everybody in this category it's just talking about the ones that
are in this situation they fall away we cannot renew them again unto repentance what would be
that getting saved again why because if we got them saved again then that would mean what jesus
did for them the first time didn't actually pay all their sins and you'd have to have jesus come
down and pay for their sins again and then they would have to do that again and that's what the
whole point of hebrews is is explaining how the old testament sacrifices they would have to constantly
have a new sacrifice and a new sacrifice and a new sacrifice for their sins but jesus is a once for
all redemption and since he already did that it wouldn't put him to an open chain because he
already truly paid every single sin so if you fall away if you commit more sin in the future
god's grace still covers it through the offering of his son the lord jesus christ who truly bear
the sins of the entire world if we say that someone could believe in jesus christ and receive
salvation and then lose it you would be mocking the crucifixion death bear and resurrection of our
lord and savior jesus christ you would say that what he did was not sufficient you would be saying
that he didn't really pay at all imagine if you came to a restaurant with me and i said hey i'm
going to buy dinner for you i got i paid it and then i leave and then the waiter comes by and
says hey you got to pay this bill that would make me that would embarrass me because i said that i
paid it and yet now you're left hanging on the bill you got to pay something that wasn't paid
in full but we believe jesus christ already paid the bill so we can confidently walk out and we
don't have to pay anything that doesn't mean we shouldn't still live a godly life and of course
these people like to pretend like we don't but this passage is really clear i believe of an of
an example of the fact that you can't lose your salvation i mean how do you interpret this ben i
think you pretty much summed it up the only thing i want to add before throwing it over to brother
os is that word enlightened used in ephesians chapter 1 and verse 18 the eyes of your understanding
being enlightened that you may know what is the hope of his calling and what the riches of the
glory of his inheritance in the saints so in my mind it is clear to me that when that word is
used we are talking about salvation and we are talking about people who are saved there and if
you could get saved again you would have to put Jesus back on the cross like the Catholics do
in their mass through transubstantiation you'd have to do that of course they're not actually
doing it you would have to do that I think that's what Hebrews 6 is trying to say one of the points
it's trying to make brother Ross what do you think yeah if you'd pull up Hebrews 6 again real quick
because I think the crux of this chapter when it comes to these people's doctrine is verse number
six because they'll probably agree with you on verse four and five they would say well that's
talking about people who were once saved we would say that it's people who who are saved but the
crux of it is they would disagree on how to interpret if they shall fall away because what
i would say about that is that someone falling away from their steadfastness falling away from
you know reading the bible or being a disciple of christ you know living the christian life they
view that falling away as losing their salvation but here's the thing if you interpret verse six
that way if you're saying hey if these people lose their salvation then what they would have
to say is that hebrew six is teaching that it's impossible to ever get your salvation back again
right and usually you don't hear them teach that usually they teach oh yeah you just got
to repent of your sins you got to confess it to god forsake your sins and you can get saved again
but hold on a second if they really want to say hebrew six is teaching you can lose your salvation
then hebrew six is teaching you can never get it back right of course that's not what i believe
but they would have to say that if they think hebrew six is about that subject well i think
it's important to understand why the bible would tell us that we can't lose our salvation in this
passage because the whole point of this passage it says therefore leaving the principles of the
doctrine of christ so he's like i no longer want to explain these foundational doctrines and the
most important as emphasized in this passage is salvation saying the foundation of repentance
from dead works and a faith toward god that's the most important essential doctrine if if you
weren't already saved what would be the most important thing to teach you salvation getting
saved so so like it's saying we're no longer going to teach you this we want to stop teaching
you about salvation so who would you want to stop teaching salvation to people who are already
people who already said so if people were not saved you wouldn't want to stop preaching them
salvation you want to stop preaching salvation to people that are already saved now why why
would you want to stop preaching salvation to someone that's already saved because they
can't lose their salvation yeah so so that's the whole point in the context of hebrews chapter
number six and and leading in from chapter five talking about the importance of no longer just
drinking the milk but getting the strong meat of the word so no longer just there's no point in me
just telling you how to be saved every single week because you're already saved let's go on
under perfection and that's that's what it literally says in let us go under perfection
and then it says verse three and this we will do if god permit hey as long as god allows us to
continue and and learning and growing we're going to do this and and why is that important well four
through six tells you you can't lose your salvation and then seven through eight tells you that you're
going to be judged according to the works that you produce so if you produce good works well then
you're going to reward if you do bad things then you're going to end up having cursing in your
life and it's similar to what it says in Luke chapter number eight where you have thorns that
are creeping up in your heart and Luke chapter number eight which choke the word and you end up
becoming unfruitful again these people that don't believe in once saved always saved or salvation
by faith they'll teach those people weren't saved but we know in the parable of the sower that the
only people that weren't saved are the ones that didn't believe that first group the subsequent
groups the ones with the stony ground they're still saved even though they sprung up and
immediately were offended and those who had the thorny ground are still saved they just didn't
end up producing much fruit or any fruit and then you have the third group that produces a lot of
good fruit but all three of those groups were saved prior to but just because you're saved
doesn't mean you will produce fruit so why is it important to learn more of the bible so that you
won't be an unfruitful christian and you won't allow the thorns in your life to choke out that
word and that's why he even says in verse number nine but beloved we are persuaded better things
of you and things that accompany salvation so here's the thing you would have to you have to
understand hebrews is written to the saved he says in verse nine beloved he's talking about saved
people and he's saying i'm persuaded that you're not the group that i just brought up why would
you be persuaded that he's not the group that they're not that group if it wasn't even possible
for them to be that group he's persuaded that they're not that group because he's saying i
don't think you guys are the christians that are going to fall away i think you're the christians
that are gonna as it says here do things that accompany salvation and again it makes perfect
sense then we're not talking about things that accompany salvation not salvation itself go ahead
i was just gonna say it makes perfect sense with the context too because in hebrews 5 he's talking
about how he wants to teach them about melchizedek and he's saying so we're gonna leave and then in
hebrew 6 he's saying we're gonna leave these basic principles we need to go on unto perfection he's
saying like i'm persuaded better things of you guys he's like come on let's do this let's talk
about melchizedek and then we roll into chapter seven and what does he do he teaches them about
melchizedek yeah it says in verse in verse 10 he phrase not for god is not unrighteous to forget
your work and labor of love so what is he's motivating us to actually work you have to you
have to interpret the previous verses to motivate me to do work yeah exactly and of course the bible
does say there but that which beareth thorns and briars is rejected and is nigh unto cursing
whose end is to be burned and that could also be used as a proof text for their damnable heresy
that you could lose your salvation but you know we have all kinds of warnings in scripture especially
hebrews chapter 10 that if you choose wickedness that you could be severely chastised you could
die you could literally god could kill you i think that's what john 15 teaches and of course james
chapter 1 says when lust hath conceived it bringeth forth sin and sin when it is finished bringeth
forth death i think that you have to first i mean you have to take the whole passage and
interpret them all together neatly and again verse 9 says that he's talking about things that
accompany salvation so he's not talking about salvation so some people and our you know even
our friends may interpret uh hebrew 6 is saying like i think it's just saying people that heard
the gospel won't end up getting saved that there may be a reprobate if they don't choose to believe
at some point in time but the reason why i don't like that interpretation is because number one it
kind of just ignores the major context like the the main context of hebrews 5 and 6 is telling me
that i need to learn more the bible i'm not motivated to learn more the bible because
reprobates can't get saved additionally it says that it very clearly to renew them again unto
repentance a reprobate never repented they never believed in jesus christ so of course we're not
talking about them because they don't they can't even be renewed again because they never even did
it the first time and that's you have to interpret that way because notice that they would be putting
christ to an open shame if you've never believed in jesus and you've never done anything then
you're not doing anything what you're what's what's happening in this context is saying someone did
believe in him and somehow that crucifixion somehow the sacrifice of christ didn't really
cover all of your sins and then specifically that the whole point of this passage is that he wants
them to do things that accompany salvation i again i'm not motivated to work really hard
and labor for god because reprobates will never get saved like i just i think that it just really
rips out this passage's main context and how it's trying to explain the motivation but ours makes
sense hey i want you to learn more because i can't get you saved anymore and it's impossible you
lose your salvation but you will be judged according to the works that you do whether
they're good or bad and i'm persuaded that you guys are the ones that are going to continue
and god's not unrighteous forget your works and labor of love and i want you to have things that
accompany salvation so i think it's just really simple i mean every description of these people
sounds like they're saved i mean would you would you really fight me ben that any of these
descriptions of these people sound like they're already saved they're enlightened they i mean how
is a reprobate a partaker of the holy ghost i can't answer the question i've believed the same way
about this passage even before you became my pastor there may be some out there who think i'm
and i'm not mad at people that disagree with me on this water carrying or something but go ahead
you know i i do think it's an important passage to understand correctly just because this unsaved
you know work salvation crowd loves the twist hebrew six and so i think it's good to have a
sound rebuttal to their interpretation the documentary yeah evidenced by the documentary
well do you have anything else you want to add to this passage brother os i'll just echo what you
said you know i definitely am not mad or upset with people that believe that this passage is
about reprobates but i do believe that saying it's about save people telling them that they
can't lose their salvation but that we will be judged for our good works and so that that for
that reason we should go on under perfection we should not be slothful to me that actually
fits the context and again something i always go back to is the greater context as well chapter
five hey i want to teach you guys about Melchizedek's but about Melchizedek but your babes in christ
let's leave the principles of the doctrine of christ you guys can't get saved again
you will be judged for your works let's not be slothful let's grow let's come on let's grow guys
let's grow and then what is he going to do he's going to teach them about Melchizedek in chapter
seven to me that fixed fits the context perfectly but what it definitely is not saying is that you
could lose your salvation that's for sure yeah no matter what i know i think it's also one of
those things once you've been enlightened and you've seen how to interpret hebrew six it's
impossible to be renewed again you're going to get it and you're going to see clearly
and you won't need to change again that was just a joke but i was just you know what do you think
on that ben i think we need to add a laugh track to our podcast to help you out with these okay
let's go back let's go back to our video here and uh we'll try to get through this trash again to
repentance since they again crucified to themselves the son of god and put him to an open shame
hebrew six is another i believe just categorically clear passage uh that teaches that people can
once be saved and actually forfeit salvation there are three popular responses by proponents
of eternal security to the warning passages the first is these are not true believers that are
being addressed the second is these texts are not talking about the loss of salvation they're
talking about the loss of rewards the third is god is using these warnings to get believers
to persevere even though he knows they cannot help but persevere the book of hebrews is very
clearly written to christians that's that's clear on every single page of the book i agree
it's very difficult to say that one who has been enlightened and tasted the heavenly gift
and made a partaker of the holy spirit and has been sanctified by the blood of christ
and is a brother it's hard to say that those people have never been genuinely converted
i don't think there's any way around this being an apostasy text because even though the word is
tasted is used it means really experienced i mean it says in the same book that christ tasted death
well that didn't mean he had a little bit of taste of death it means he died when it says
they receive the holy spirit the greek word that is used there is the same word that's used in
hebrews 31 of holy brethren would receive the heavenly calling did they receive heavenly calling
or not you know hebrew 6 4 had been enlightened tasted of the heavenly gift that's definitely
born again and made particles of the holy spirit jesus said the world can't receive the holy spirit
paul said the natural man doesn't receive the things holy spirit yet these folks had received
the holy spirit the one minute where they actually get a bunch of the bible right here it's impossible
to renew that again to repentance again i agree with this part again means you have to repent
initially even to right to the end in hebrews 13 where he talks about the regular practice of
the christian faith that they are doing in rome so no he's not writing to non-christians verse 6
having fallen away it's impossible to renew them again to repentance since they again crucified
themselves the son of god and put him to open shame the idea that we could be beyond retrieval
reminds us of proverbs 29 someone can be rebuked and a stiff necked after so many rebukes he can
get to the point where he's broken beyond the possibility of change that's a scary passage
every day that you uh sin is a day that you are getting closer and closer to that point of
reprobation you can't keep on living who doesn't say that hurts him you can't do that think about
it this way every sin is a sin for which jesus had to die how could you ever take a laissez-faire
view of your sin once you knew that you helped crucify christ and that's why in hebrews we
hear about the apostate recrucifying christ by the sense that they were committing of rejecting and
turning away from christ wait a minute i thought the bible says that the blood of christ cleanses
the way all sin so you know i thought the moment i believed he paid for my past present and future
sin how can an event that happened two thousand years ago then only cover my sin like at the
present each moment hey you wait because they will try to address that point they're literally
gonna say okay do you want me to spoil it by my words okay by thy words thou shall be condemned
because he said every time you sin you're getting closer to being a reprobate so watch out there
buddy i hope you don't send it all that'll say is that pastor shelly yeah wait till they actually
talk about that okay okay let's just you are going i haven't even watched this garbage your
mind if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth
there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins but a fearful expectation of judgment and a
fury of fire that will consume the adversaries anyone who has set aside the law of moses dies
without mercy on evidence of two or three witnesses how much worse punishment do you
think will be deserved by the one who has trampled underfoot the son of god and has
profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified and has outraged the spirit of grace
the author hebrews who certainly say it includes himself in the warning he says for if we go on
sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth no one remains a sacrifice for i feel
like he says that we already sanctified i don't want to spend a lot of time to me we don't have
to this is all i want to say is that i feel like this passage is very similar to chapter six yeah
obviously you can be judged harshly and be killed physically for doing despite the spirit of grace
but he says you were already sanctified he doesn't talk about being unsanctified they're already
saved he talks about how they trampled on the foot the blood of christ by which they were sanctified
and you know some say well they were sanctified they just kind of went to church well no the book
of hebrews especially chapter 10 even earlier use the sanctification in the context of salvation
and also it's in the passive voice it's not something they did god sanctified them by the
blood of christ this person was once sanctified by the blood of jesus and now has trampled it
underfoot some proponents of eternal security say that god is just using the warning passages
as a means of perseverance a means to get people to persevere even though he knows that
he's going to make them persevere well the problem with that is that that's not quite honest
well here's the thing they're they're like they're fighting calvinism they're not even fighting our
position entirely because again the calvinist doctrine does teach that you have to persevere
under the end in works and that you wouldn't you wouldn't potentially fall away and be sinful or
judged harshly like this steve lawson that was recently uh let go or move from position of pastor
at thallus bible church or something like that for having an inappropriate relationship with a woman
they would say like he didn't persevere under the end he's not even saved and it's like okay well
obviously the bible is warning us that we could potentially not persevere and so of course we have
to have a doctrine that teaches you could be very sinful and still go to heaven and that's called
the doctrine of once they've always saved because you believe in the lord jesus christ you're saved
and you still have free will you still have the choice to make every decision you make is a choice
i can't imagine anybody thinking that they literally aren't even making their own decisions
anymore that's like demon possession or something so of course we have free will free agency to
still make decisions good or bad till the day we die that's why the bible emphasizes making good
choices walking in the spirit crucifying the flesh dying daily all of those different abmonitions not
for salvation but rather to continue being sanctified and to continue uh being uh brought
closer to the lord jesus christ and whatever rewards that you may or may not receive for the
works that you've done but again they just want to twist all this do you have a comment on this
ben i i'll just keep playing if not i have nothing to add brother roz anything you wanted to say
let's roll it if i am a teacher and i have already decided in advance that all my students are going
to pass the course and if i say you must study or else you will make an f in this course that is
disingenuous if they were predetermined not to be saved from before the foundation of the universe
then there's no point in warning them about apostasy because they couldn't do otherwise
no these are real warnings to real christians because there really is real spiritual danger
for them and he says if people disobey the law of moses died without mercy without the two or three
witnesses bearing witness to him how much severer the punishment will be for those who have trampled
underfoot the son of god and treated the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified as
unclean and has insulted the holy spirit it's an a fortiori argument if the old testament people
of god could lose their salvation given the greater privilege we have in the gospel how much
more severely would god deal with us you get this greater to lesser again which we've been seen over
and over again throughout the warnings in the new testament that we're not to say well we're not
under the law so therefore we commit apostasy over and over again in hebrews chapter 2 hebrews
chapter 10 hebrews chapter 12 it's even worse to fall away under grace so this text rules out the
loss of rewards view because it says that the one who turns from christ can only expect a fearful
expectation of judgment and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries that is not the loss
of rewards verses like this would put the fear of god into my heart even as a christian i agree
it's just physical death uh that i have an obligation and a responsibility towards god
as a christian there comes a time when the heart can be hardened the heart becomes unwarmable and
the will becomes unwilling because of a persistent pattern of sin that allows us to drift away from
the dock of christ in his salvation most armenians believe that sin can directly cause apostasy
however reformed armenians like myself believe that sin hardens your heart it doesn't lead
directly to apostasy but it can lead to a hardening of the heart whereby you harden your heart against
the conviction of the holy spirit then that union with christ that comes by faith alone can be
broken and you can commit apostasy and that when you do that it's irremediable i tend to believe
that those how in the world is that faith alone then it's not who are worried about whether they
have committed the sin of apostasy are safe well who is it saying it's impossible again repentance
not everybody that falls away the scriptures are very clear that branches were broken off
roma's 11 can be grabbed back in again james chapter 5 that if you bring one who is turned from
the truth back they'll save a soul from death and hide a multitude of sins the prodigal son came
back and he was lost but now he's found he was dead but now he's alive that's all over the
scripture i think isv brings it out really really well because it brings out the present tense
participle so long as they continue to crucify the son of god afresh if people are held bad on hell
and rejecting jesus yeah the author hebrews warns you can harden your heart so much in chapter 3
where you can fall away from living god you don't hear his voice but that doesn't mean his voice
wasn't there it is there but it's you tuning out his voice if we find in ourselves a numb heart
a cold heart a desire not to obey we should take heed to these warning passages and turn our hearts
toward god until we hear the voice of god again so okay second peter chapter 2 here again is a
strong statement about the possibility of a believer being lost for if after they have
escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the lord and savior jesus christ
they are again entangled in them and overcome the latter end is worse for them than the beginning
for it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness than having
known it to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them peter says it would have
been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than to have known it and turned
away that is talking about someone forfeiting their salvation it says the way of righteousness
what's the way of righteousness jesus says i'm the way the truth of life the only church is called
the way these are people who left the faith now some argue that this is only applying to the false
teachers not to their audience whoever it's speaking of these are people who actually did
come to the context if after they have escaped the defilement i love it when they're like now
here's how to actually interpret this the beginning of the chapter says it's about false prophets but
don't look at that part yeah let's pull up verse one here i have it on my screen i don't yeah but
there were also but there were false prophets also among the people even as there should be false
teachers among you who shall who privilege shall bring in damnable heresies even denying the lord
that bought them so so he's going to claim that these are the people that are saved it's like
that's the whole context of the passage is basically saying like the false prophets knew
about the lord but they didn't actually believe in him and so even whatever knowledge they acquired
from the bible or from christianity it ends up going to make them a worse person than it would
if they had never even heard it and you know i'm glad i'm so glad that we oh yeah i'm so glad we
came to this passage because i wanted to preach a sermon called like what's up with white people
and and and basically like yeah good i basically want to teach the gospel exposing the gospel to
people either makes you the best or the worst people so it's like it's not it has a very powerful
effect and it's like the people that didn't really get the gospel are usually not as bad
as the people that got it but then rejected it they're much worse and so it's like when you look
at white people they're pretty much some of the best and the worst people in the world today
not because of their skin color but because of their exposure to the gospel and so i kind of
want to preach a sermon on that what do you think about those those opinions ben well the
word the worst definitely would be the mormons so that part for sure clinton maybe ben could
talk about the best i don't know ben who's your favorite white person is it trump yeah donald
trump there you go i'll say i'll go old school i'm gonna pick pastor jack kyle's there you go
that's a pretty good guy but second peter chapter two it's funny because they're like they're like
oh this isn't you know some people say it's about false teachers the very first verse
there were false prophets also among the people all right no comment on the sermon idea oh the
sermon idea here's the sermon idea that i have for you i mean i'm sorry here's my reaction to
it first of all the title sounds like it came out of shield of faith baptist church okay good
i think we have a little more passage jones i think this is easily viewed in society when
you look at the fact that you have you know george soros you have these evil white people
that are in politics and things of that nature but then some of the greatest christians we know
are white you know pastor anderson and others so in my mind your exposure to the gospel is
either going to make you a hardened reprobate false prophet really bad person or you're going
to get saved so it's like i agree i think that their exposure to the gospel is what makes this
unique to them not skin color that's what we're explaining in the end part of second peter chapter
of the world through the knowledge we're not talking about intellectual knowledge we're talking
about intimate personal knowledge and the greek word he uses there is epigenosis uh that's
experiential knowledge many Calvinists will admit and when they're commenting on second peter chapter
one verse three it has to do with salvation knowledge then after knowing it to turn back
pastor Shelley i forgot to add this but i saw it in the chat from brother joe in the chat room
one last thing i want to say the people who were protesting i should say the animals excuse me
who were protesting our church week in and week out were majority white yep hey even even a lot
of the like blm was white people and uh antifa is a bunch of white people and pretty much all
the worst serial killers that we know in history are white people hillary clinton how about just
look at our congress i mean you want to talk about some of the worst people in the world just look at
our congress it's basically like mostly white people and so you know you know what's funny
pastor i want to preach my whole sermon yet but just just one more thing on that i've been
recording some soul winning videos and just interactions i've had with people out soul winning
and what's funny is like every time i actually get one of these interactions on camera it's always
with a black person or hispanic so it's just like reality is bearing witness to a lot of this truth
here oh it's sad it's sad from the holy commandment delivered to them what is that but a person who
has truly known salvation the message of the true proverb has happened to them a dog returns to its
vomit a sow after washing but they returned to wallowing in the mire the calvinist interpretation
would be that if you've truly been washed you could never go back to the mire you can never go back
to the mud which itself seems to raise the question well why does peter warn them peter is illustrating
the lapped state of a former believer which he warns about in chapter one when he describes
believers as having escaped the corruptions of the world through lust and forgetting that there were
claims from their past sins the pig is representative of a believer has been cleansed and forgets he was
even washed the pig is a picture of a believer that's great isn't it but it literally has dog
like highlighted on the screen the bible says beware of dogs the bible says give not that
which is holy under the dogs why would we then say that's a believer what a weird maybe if it
used the word she goes back to the mud i mean i find it incredible that anyone could still teach
once saved always saved in light of that passage which simply repeats what is said over and over
in the new test what's sad is that passage is about these guys and they still don't understand
it and they're gonna be worse off you're right that's the irony it's about them that is that
chapter is them it is about them and it's about false prophets like the people in this documentary
they are damning souls to hell with this garbage they don't understand that passage this is a
passage for christians it was understood that way in the early church and this is consistent
with jesus's teaching in the gospels and the apostolic teaching in the whole new testament
james has yet another incredibly clear passage about forfeiture of salvation a strong warning
and james in chapter 5 verses 19 and 20 says brethren he's talking to brethren genuine
believers and he says brother if any of you turn from the truth in other words they're in the
truth and one converts him back they'll save a soul from death and hide a multitude of sins
now some would say well james was written to jewish believers but also to jewish seekers
but when we first see them as brothers it says this if one of you strays from the truth and
another brings him back so this is someone who is in the lord this is someone who is in the truth
and if it's any among you in greek it's the exact same construction we have earlier if there's
anyone sick among you this is someone in the body they'll say well let's just talk about him not
really a soul but you know what that word suke is used one other time in the book of james in
relationship to the truth and salvation and that's where james says to receive the wording grafted
which is able to save your souls your suke so we're talking about spiritual salvation here
which can be lost as james points out so there's clearly no guarantee that everyone in the lord
will stay in the lord there is a real possibility that someone can apostatize like we have through
the whole bible and there's no guarantee that the person will come back so it's a sacred task
to help bring a straying believer back and by bringing them back we've saved them from death
and covered a multitude of sins do you have a response i don't i don't even care some of
these they're just so like why can't we talk about any of the verses that bring up everlasting life
eternal life salvation heaven like those words are found in the bible we never bring them up
yeah of course we could save someone from physical death and cover a lot of their sins by helping
them you know they they just basically go into every passage talks about physical death and
substituting hell do you think that james chapter one talking about the word which is able to save
your soul is that about physical or or spiritual there well let's pull it up so we don't just
you know i don't know exactly what you're what part of the chapter you're bringing up let me
see if i can pull it up here what is it james one yeah i believe it's in james chapter one can you
give me a little sample of that yeah in james chapter one and verse over 21 it says wherefore
lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness and receive with meekness the
engrafted word which is able to save your souls they brought that up in their little spiel and
i was curious if you guys had a response to that passage i think james five it's obviously physical
there and it talks about converting you know someone from the error of their ways peter was
told when thou art converted that you could save a soul from death if you are able to turn them from
the error of their ways obviously sin can lead to death that's clear james one perhaps a little
more murky i was curious if you guys had a response to it i don't know obviously we are saved by the
word that does save our souls and additionally um the word soul could just be the person and
it could just be like describing some kind of uh preserving you from the world preserving you from
worldliness preserving you from destruction preserving you from consequences so i would have
i would have to think harder about that exactly what i would interpret that passage as i don't
know brother dylan do you have a thought on it yeah to me it kind of just seems like it's just stating a
fact like obviously laying apart all filthiness is not how you get saved but the engrafted word
is able to save your souls like it's just stating a fact like hey the engrafted word is able to
save your souls but it's not saying lay aside filthiness to save your souls saying just receive
the word by the way the word is able to save your souls that's kind of how i've always interpreted
that so it's spiritual salvation no no no i don't think that laying apart filthiness is saying that
that's how you're getting saved okay i'm saying that when it's mentioning the word of god it's
just adding a detail that is just a fact that by the way the word of god is able to save your souls
kind of like he that believeth and is baptized shall be saved right to me i kind of apply that
same concept here it's important that i'd be open to other interpretations on that it's important
to note that the word soul though doesn't only have to be and i think this more applies to james
chapter five it doesn't only have to apply to your inward soul sometimes it's just talking about you
in general and it actually could be about your flesh so that's something to understand your
sanctification process of who you are i i kind of lean towards that's what it's implying but you
know i would have to i don't want to be dogmatic while i haven't thought about it so we'll just
keep playing but the one who endures to the end he will be saved uh many try to take that
text yeah you know jesus right there is talking about enduring to the end of the tribulation if
you live through the whole tribulation then your body will be saved that's not the context the
context there how is that not the context is the olivet discourse i like how they just tell you
exactly what every one of these passages means and then just said just say that's not what it
means how is that not the context he's literally talking about n times bible prophecy right here
many false prophets will arise and mislead many people and lawlessness or sin is going to increase
and the love that's incredible to me but you know it's so funny as they say like literally
incredible they're saying like this is like an end times thing but then they said at the very
beginning like no one's ever believed this so so like okay whatever jesus the shadows will become
cold cold towards the lord and warm towards the world but the one who endures to the end in the
context it means the one who endures in love for jesus christ fervently until the end will be saved
does it mean those who don't endure to the end will also be saved then we are going against the
words of jesus christ i guess when peter was in the water and said lord save me that he he was
meaning that he wanted to go to heaven he wanted to go to heaven but remember this isn't about end
times right what should be the sign of thy coming and at the end of the world jesus is asked in
matthew chapter 24 some say it's about end times but that's not the context someone says ben is
about to explode i hope so i mean this should make if if anything is going to make you mad it
should be this yes this should make you mad i appreciate i just i just don't understand like
how do you literally get up and just say the opposite the complete opposite of what the
context is could you imagine going to these type of churches how frustrating it would be these
people these people aren't even in big churches don't have an audience like they're these online
yahoos just drawing away disciples after themselves they're really not like major teach who would want
to come and hear this i mean this is just such trash they're not exegeting any scripture they're
not showing any context they don't make any coherent points it's not even it's not even a
good message to hear you think like if you're going to lie to a bunch of people it's like joe
loeufstein these guys don't even have a good message it's like be perfect it's like everybody's
just like okay every time you say you're closer to being a reprobate come back this sunday you
know it's like michael brown the guy who has the jew connection is pretty much only on youtube because
he he of his ethnicity not because people actually enjoy listening to him it's probably just promoted
by the algorithm and it's like this is not a real thing you can 22 where jesus says and you will be
hated by all for my namesake but he who endures to the end will be saved here jesus is talking
to believing disciples people who have already been saved and he's alerting us to the persecution
and trials we will face as his disciples yet he warns us we must endure faithfully to the end
in order to be saved in that same uh teaching of jesus he says if you deny me before men all the
night before the father is in heaven he says don't fear men who can destroy your body if you're god
you destroy your body and soul in hell so jesus is giving us salvific warnings here and i think it's
very important to understand that revelation three five if you overcome you'll be clothed in white
garments i will not erase your name from the book of life you're just over this documentary that
your name can be erased from the book of life now wouldn't that presuppose that there is the
possibility of doing that why give a promise to someone that i will not blot your name out of the
book of life if it's impossible to have your name blotted out of the book of life yes you're
christians now but if you do this this and this in terms of belief and behavior well your name can
be erased from the lamb's book of eternal life they say oh my name's in the book of life forever
says jesus telling a lie we do this this this we we're not going to tell you what it is just
if you just do these things that i'm not going to mention or bring up like removing and adding
from the word of god that's not something that believers are just like hey let's just write our
own bible today and they and they make the point well why would it have to be a promise
if god could never break the promise that's just stupid the point is you can't you know the bible
says and this is the promise which he has promised us even eternal life that doesn't mean that you
could lose eternal life just because it's a promise it's a promise that is kept by christ if you
believe whatever i hear is it making an empty threat if you overcome your name will never be
erased from the book of life what if you don't overcome now it's interesting that some people
seek to wiggle out of this solemn warning and they imagine that the book of life is made up
of everybody who's ever lived however we know from revelation chapter 17 verse 8 that the names of
the lost were never written in the book of life okay that's this guy this guy is so good at just
telling you exactly how to interpret it and then just saying that's not what it means right i know
like he's like always dialed in like he's just like well this is whatever this is what you would
initially think is it because it's true it's like he holds the truth this is this is somebody who
holds the truth and unrighteousness folks oh man oh oh because it says here in this passage that
somebody's name was not written in the book uh of life but you know this is this is so funny
because he even has it highlighted in a way that you can interpret it well because it's like whose
name had not been written in the book of life and then it says from the foundation of the world
from the foundation of the world what is that describing is it describing the timeline or is
it describing that it's the book of life from the foundation of the world i personally think
revelation 178 is not that big of an issue the way i look at it is this book has existed from
eternity past it has always been there and everybody's name is written in the book it's
blotted out when they die as an unsaved person or when they become a if they become a reprobate
as they're walking the earth in this life but i do believe everybody starts out with the book
dude did they say what version this is let's look this up because this is an interesting version
choice because it does not say it this way in the king james is it new king james well i don't know
but i'm i'm literally saying like i don't know okay so niv all right let me pull let me get this
bigger notice that it says whose names have not been written so it's saying like it's never been
written in some context whereas in the king james it says whose names are not written well that's
that's different than have not or has not been written oh i apologize see this is what they're
trying that's revelation 13 sorry i was responding to a different passage but go ahead they're trying
to suggest that this interpretation is saying it's never been written but the king james doesn't
say that it says whose names are not written like as a present tense and again our interpretation
the fact that they were blotted out so their name's not in there right now and that the book is from
the foundation of the world obviously this is a bad interpretation that can then be misleading
because then they would say oh i guess his name's never been in there but you know i even played
devil's advocate on this because i'm like okay let's just say that let's just go with it for
a half a second the antichrist name was never written in the book of life that does not prove
that i can lose my salvation it doesn't it doesn't even mean that necessarily so like again this is
still not a proof text of someone losing their salvation nor is even a proof text that your name
could be taken out of the book of life if that's the argument they're going to make it's saying
this person's name was never in there which is what's funny it would almost prove their
doctrine that they're fighting against Calvinism true like what they're saying would almost be
like suggesting this Calvinistic idea that this person just never had a chance of salvation
God already didn't have his name in there or something like that which then would still
contradict the fact that you blotted out and all that and things could change or whatever
but I'm just saying like they're not being internally consistent which has been evidence
in other places in this video but and of course there's a very similar passage in revelation 17
that communicates essentially the same thing but again I do believe everybody starts out written
in the book of life and their name is blotted out when they cross the reprobate line while still
living on this earth or when they die and go to hell brother Oz do you have a similar view or
different or what do you think yeah yeah that's how i believe it as well let's just pull back the
video and we'll just we'll just keep going the one either for can only apply to apostate former
believers says in verse 6 he who has a year to hear he was willing to listen to the truth and
face up to the facts let him hear oh counter arguments the entire book you also when you
heard the word of truth the gospel of your salvation and believed in him were sealed with
the promised holy spirit who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it
those who believed in forms of once saved always save well frequently point to paul's words and
fusions one that we are sealed with the holy spirit in greek seal is often you know a stamp
a seal of approval a seal that a king puts on something that it belongs to him and seals can
be broken stamps can be effaced everybody in paul's world knew seals could be broken there
were seals on amphoras wine jars there were seals on documents the same thing for the word
earnest which unfortunately is sometimes translated as guarantee well guarantee obviously you have
been guaranteed your salvation by the holy spirit and that's the end of it you're going to be saved
well translation is a tricky business even the word guarantee has more than one signification
but the word earnest it's like earnest money it means a down payment so we have been sealed with
the holy spirit meaning we have received the holy spirit as an inheritance as a deposit on what is
to come if you think what god's done in your life so far is great you ain't seen nothing yet the
holy spirit is just the if you will first installment of god's work in your life and
where this is all going paul's wonderful statement about the holy spirit as a seal as a down payment
allows us to make a distinction between assurance and eternal security about four times the apostle
paul speaks of the holy spirit as the proof i like how they have to use this flowery language like
this is such a great passage it's completely meaningless to them because they don't believe
you can lose they believe you can lose your salvation so it's a meaningless statement to
them they've even been sealed have they addressed until the day of redemption have they addressed
that a single time in the diatribe yet let's see if they do well i haven't pulled up on the screen
but we'll go we'll go to that if they don't that we are saved what is the evidence that you are
a christian the work of the holy spirit in your life changing your affections changing your desires
making you able to live the life of christ you walk as they were simply never possible
think about how bad the holy spirit did its job if if its job is to make you a better person
and walk in the spirit and then you lost your salvation like i mean like they're saying you
got it and they're saying he's helping you become better and walk in this way and then you lost it
i mean it's like they're almost blaming the holy spirit for not having done a very good job
and in transforming you or something like what this is garbage for the cross we have powerful
assurance for the internal working of the holy spirit we don't need some kind of eternal security
we simply need insurance so that's the ceiling by the holy spirit that by receiving the spirit
romans 8 16 the spirit birds witness with our spirit that we're children of god and romans 8
Galatians 4 god's put within us the spirit of the son saying abba father so we have this deposit
down payment that's the seal of god saying you're one of mine you belong to me i've given you my
spirit that's all it says he is not saying you can live any way you want in the meantime because
you've been sealed that would never be consistent with the teachings of paul paul goes on to work
sure the bible doesn't say live however you want ever anywhere neither are we stupid when the
church of emphasis that they practice immorality and wicked sansi gives a vice list he says no for
certain don't let anyone deceive you says because a lot of people see people in this but no one
deceives you by vain words because of these things you will not inherit the kingdom of christ the
same thing you have in ephesians 1 13 and 14 about being sealed by the holy spirit you have
in ephesians 4 30 but in ephesians 4 30 it also says not only are you sealed by the spirit but
that you can grieve the holy spirit so we've been sealed in the day of salvation but then he wants
us not to grieve the holy spirit and paul is uh taking a reference there from isaiah chapter 63
verse 10 when they were going into the promised land but they grieved god's holy spirit and they
became his enemies and he wiped many of them out and so we have to be very clear that you can do
despite to the spirit like it says yeah he killed them physically he didn't say they lost their
salvation what kind of garbage is this you're sealed under the day of salvation but that
doesn't really mean that yeah they seem to think that being killed carnally in the old testament
somehow is an analog for losing your salvation or equates to losing your salvation in the new
testament and not and not just dying not just dying they're not do they believe any passage
is a warning that you could die physically or is that not even exist everything is salvation that's
it everything is salvation salvation because this is the carnal mind trying to interpret
false bible versions i know it says you're sealed under the day of redemption but uh don't grieve
him okay what about comparing that with uh i'll never leave thee nor forsake thee how do we you
can grieve him but he won't leave thee nor forsake thee romans chapter 8 nothing can separate us from
the love of god which is in christ jesus our lord you know those parallel well with this
particular passage these guys are just complete idiots they're idiots and liars and deceivers
and wicked as hell and they're going to be burning in the lowest hell that's uh grieving away the
means of our salvation if the spirit troubles you this morning thank god he's troubling you
before you go to hell the spirit will leave you well this is what you can do with the holy spirit
accept him resist him grieve him quench him was that guy making our point john i don't wait a
minute back up wasn't this guy making our point if we greet the holy spirit that's uh grieving away
the means of our salvation if the spirit troubles you this morning thank god he's troubling you
before you go to hell the spirit will leave you well this is what you can do with the holy spirit
accept him resist him grieve him quench him okay i thought he was just saying like you can obviously
you know quench him and you can uh grieve him but he's not going to leave you but then he said like
he was going to leave i don't know it's super good you're giving the guy the benefit that always
saved camp is uh john 10 27 to 28 says my sheep hear my voice and i know them and they follow me
and i give unto them eternal life and they shall never perish neither shall any man pluck them out
of my hand and so they will say uh you know you are once saved always saved um as a as a christian
because he gives you eternal life and you'll never perish so john 10 amen says that the sheep hear
his voice and that we are safely kept in the father's hands he was greater than all and no one
they're gonna snatch us out of the father's hand that is incredibly good news it is good news
because you're saved forever it's an incredibly beautiful passage uh it has to do with our security
in christ that no one can snatch us out the greek word tarpazo nobody can by force take us from his
hand or the father's hand no one is able to snatch them out of the father's hand but you can jump
out of the father's hand if you like he will not nobody but you can renders the entire passage
meaningless go ahead brother rose what do you think about this i just love how they're reading the
verse and it's just saying exactly what we believe they're like now some people say when they read
this sentence that says the sky is blue some people say that this passage is saying that the
sky is blue but what you don't understand is you could put on glasses that are red and they'll look
red it's like bro you can never escape his hand what are you talking about but you can yeah like
who is that really like what is the meaning of that if it's not in context of me really because
i'm just trying to think like how how is anybody like snatching my salvation away
if salvation is what i believe i'm the only one that can even affect that in the first place or
if it's by works yes i'm the only one that can affect my works so think about how meaningless
of a passage this is to say like ben can't take away my salvation okay wow that was i'm so glad
of that verses in the bible it's like it doesn't really it doesn't mean anything to me if that's
what he's saying if i could still lose it and it's dependent upon me exactly then how do i have any
assurance of salvation i would have zero assurance of salvation delan think about this too like they
would agree that a person who is saved or at least you know in their temporary state of salvation for
them has the holy spirit and we know in the book of john that one of the roles of the holy spirit
is to bear witness of the truth in our hearts so if i'm saved the holy spirit is bearing witness
of the truth of the gospel in my heart you know it's bearing witness that jesus is god that the
word of god is true okay if i'm reading john chapter 10 i'm saved the holy spirit's bearing
witness that what person would then want to jump out of the father's hand it makes no sense it
makes absolutely no sense or they're just saying that the holy spirit doesn't actually bear witness
to the truth but for us we would interpret that as saying like hey you would never stop believing
in jesus because if the holy spirit is inside of me bearing witness to the truth once i've been
enlightened once i believe in christ and believe in the gospel i'm not going to then stop believing
in that why because the holy spirit's bearing witness to that and i've heard you use this
pastor shelly it's kind of like if someone tells you hey santa claus isn't real you're never going
to go back and believe in santa claus because you've been enlightened so they also contradict
themselves here and i want to show you how earlier in this very film they interpreted second
corinthians chapter 13 as teaching that if you keep sinning you are bringing yourself closer to
reprobation who does the reprobating there god but here they're saying it's not god that'll reject
you it's you that can jump out of his hand so in a sense you're the one who's rejecting
your salvation well hold on a second you said earlier that it was god who will reject your
salvation now you're saying no no it's you that does it not god which one is it they could probably
wiggle out and say both are on the table well it doesn't that i still agree with you in general
force us to stay if someone says i do not want god anymore then we can leave and walk away that's
always been the case we've always had the choice and it happened throughout the bible and that's
why there's so many warnings in the new testament because the sheep they're defined as those who
follow christ the greek present tense is used they follow continue to follow grace they believe in
him it's the greek present tense again they believe continue to believe in him in john 10 you have
all these present indicative verbs my sheep are hearing my voice they are following me the
condition in this verse is when he says my sheep hear my voice and they follow me and so if you're
no longer following christ if you're no longer following his voice then you no longer have the
promises of this verse they follow me and i give them eternal life what if you don't follow is that
promise still going to be fulfilled they don't follow me and i still give them eternal life the
problem is when people want to take the promises of the bible without taking the conditions of the
bible it's all one sentence you can't reject the first button say he just gives us eternal life
and these people who follow me hear my voice and follow me will never perish the scripts are very
clear that a sheep can harden his heart in fact jesus addresses the sheep in loop 12 he says little
flock he's addressing the flock of sheep when do we see a sheep turning into a goat he said the
definition of a sheep is one that follows christ no that is the characteristic of that sheep that's
being described but that is not a definition of a sheep and it's actually going to be proved further
in this verse he's about to read he warns them that they're to be like the good and faithful
servant who gives out meat and do season but he says a fat servant that same servant that same
sheep in the flock goes and beats the day servants and gets drunk with the drunkards that they'll be
cut in pieces and throw with the unbelievers jesus says in the 12 revelation 218 says unbelievers go
lake of fire that's a bad deal so scripture has warned that you can harden your heart revelation
218 says believers go to the lake of fire i think you said unbelievers right okay back it up back it
up five seconds back it up five seconds that's a bad deal so scripture has warned that you listen
gets drunk with the drunkards that they'll be cut in pieces and thrown with the unbelievers jesus
says in the 12 revelation 218 says the unbelievers go lake of fire that's a bad deal the scriptures
warn that he was even in the heart as a sheep and no longer hear his voice so i understand scripture
we can know that we know that we know that we're saved we can have absolute confidence in god's
keeping power but the warnings are real roman 7 but i see a different law in the members of my body
waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin which is in my
members wretched man that i am who will set me free from the body of this death roman 7 has been a
controversial passage for two millennia and the big question is it talking about the normal life
of a believer that you do the things that you hate and the things that that you want to do you
don't do and that you live this kind of schizophrenic life and then you recognize i'm just a rich man
saved by grace and in romans 8 1 there's no condemnation is that the way to read it
or is paul talking about life under the law before he knew the lord the early church understood it
properly the early church for the first literally talks about the inward man how do you have the
inward man inside you if you're not even saved yet that's that that is utterly preposterous
to interpret roman seven as referring to the apostle paul not being saved yet when he talks
about the spirit in the passage see these guys can't relate to the apostle paul because they're
perfect they're sinless so they never do things that they wouldn't approve of you know they don't
have that inward struggle apparently apparently they have just reached sinless perfection and so
they read this passage they can't relate to the apostle paul because they're just better than the
apostle paul what about what about when he just says exactly like at the earlier part of this
passage he just says i am carnal is that is that talking about this previous state yeah or is that
before his salvation i am even though he says i delight in the law of god after the inward man
what unsaved person is delighting in the law of god and their inward dead man their dead spirit
is delighting in the law of god apparently his spirit's alive that's why he's delighting in the
law of god after the inward man because his spirit has been quickened he's been regenerated
he's alive he has a renewed spirit he has the holy spirit sealed inside of him that's why he's
able to rejoice in the law of god inwardly because he's saved here i am carnal actually i was just
talking about a previous time in my life got present sense i don't know what i could see why
they list this as a problem passage because it definitely is a problem passage for what they
believe you know the problem passage is the bible was speaking himself before he was saved the whole
bible problem augustine brought in church the idea that paul's talking about himself as a saved
person and he just you know he's living an immoral life he thinks he wants to do he can't do and
things he doesn't want to do he ends up doing and he's a slave to sin well is that really what paul
sounds like throughout the entire rest of the new testament absolutely not there is nothing in any
of paul yes it does yes paul makes it clear he's uh sinful other letters that sound even remotely
like roman seven i mean how about just the book of acts where it's like the holy ghost is like
saying don't go to drusillam don't go to drusillam and he just goes to drusillam no matter what like
i was am i just supposed to pretend like that that didn't even happen good as a paradigm or even a
common experience in the christian life for this reason alone we ought to be very wary of those
who think that roman seven is describing a typical struggle for a typical christian as they try to
work out the christian life i personally grieve when i hear a noted christian preacher say
that roman seven describes the normal christian what is a noted christian preacher yes we love
jesus but we're unable to resist sin thankfully there are certain calvinists uh that do disagree
with that viewpoint douglas moo for instance uh hoekama other calvinists say no paul's bill
contextually in a lost state there before he found christ my answer is this why don't we
put that as a big question mark and see what's written in roman six and roman's eight in other
words the passages i don't believe what it says one of the great disasters in the church is
separating chapter six seven and eight i agree they all say that salvation is by faith and you
can't lose it must be read together roman six is quite explicit we have died to sin in baptism
we've been buried with the lord and raised in his delight we cannot continue in sin paul's
explicit roman 6 11 roman 6 14 don't let sin have dominion over you how about let's include verses
or chapters three four and five too after paul cries out to jesus and says and at the end of
roman seven you know who will save me from this body of death but when you go to chapter eight
jesus is the one that gives them deliverance chapter eight provides an amazing glorious
saved in chapter seven of the christian over these kinds of temptations they received like jesus did
the holy spirit to attend their ways and to empower them to do what god calls them to do in this life
we read in roman's chapter eight the first few verses that the law of life and spirit gave him
victory over a lot of sin and death now he's under the new covenant he's not in the roman
seven state anymore so is it possible for us to defeat sin for me no but the holy spirit in me
can and so those injunctions that what does that even mean the holy spirit inside of me can defeat
sin paul gives so strongly in roman six are possible but they're possible in the light of
roman's eight chapter seven seems to be a digression where paul is talking about the
experience of trying to live a victorious christian life in the power of following the law
of moses so however we interpret roman seven the reality is that in the lord we are expected he
refers to having to lead new godly lives and in fact nothing else is countenance so roman seven
with the inward man has been used as a as a license for many people and break my heart because there
are countless christians quoting roman seven as they're living wicked lives but paul says if you
live this way you'll not inherit the kingdom of god but this guy's perfect though so it's okay
"Who shall deliver me from the BODY of this?"
"And these whom he predestined, he also called; and these whom he called, he also justified."
"And these whom he justified, he also glorified."
"One of my favorite passages in all of the Bible, and I'm sure a favorite for many Christians, is Romans 8."
"You hate the Bible, devil."
"Look at this devil. Look at that smiling, leering devil right there."
"He wants to run your family."
"Then he goes on and speaks about those eternal purposes. For those whom he foreknew, predestined, those whom he predestined, he called, those whom he called, he justified, those whom he justified, he glorified."
Calvinists actually call this the golden chain, that, you know, those who are called, you know, and so forth, all the way to glorification.
I agree with John Wesley, who stated that Paul's not saying that everybody that was called is justified, that everybody that's justified has to be glorified.
He's just showing how God works in salvation.
It's not saying what it said.
Can we get a better translation of the Bible? Because it's like, it just keeps saying things and I'm thinking exactly what it says is true.
Hey, Pastor Shelley, you know what we should do? Somebody should, we shouldn't do that, we don't have enough time, but somebody should take this film and just like take out the part where they're like, people say, and just everything they say after that, put it in one compilation and they'll sound like they're doctrinally sound on the stuff he's good for.
They pretty much interpret every passage right.
"Not affirm, either here or in any other part of his writings, that precisely the same number of men are called justified and glorified. He does not deny."
You know what it makes me think of? It makes me think of when the devil says, "You shall not surely die."
Yep. Total opposite.
He just, no, he just says it's wrong.
I know God said that you'll die, but you, no, you won't die.
You won't die.
Just, yeah, just the exact opposite.
"That a believer may fall away and be cut off between his special calling and his glorification."
Romans 11 22.
"He only affirms that this is the method whereby God leads us step by step toward heaven."
Even when you look at the so-called steps and these links in this golden chain, not anyone's step guarantees the next step.
The Bible says, "Many are called, but few are chosen." So just being called doesn't mean you'll automatically be chosen.
Peter says in 2 Peter 1 10, "To make your calling an election, which is you're being chosen, make it sure you ratify it in the context that is continuing in the faith."
So that doesn't guarantee that you'll be justified.
And those who are justified, they can't say, "Well, I'm for sure going to be glorified automatically."
Scripture says in Hebrews chapter 10, verse 38 and 39, "The just shall live by faith."
But if he draws back, he's not going forward in that chain, now he's going backwards, "My soul will have no pleasure in him."
As we go on, when we see this list of what can separate us from the love of Christ,
being with tribulation and angels, demons, principalities, life, death itself,
there's nothing outside of you, nothing outside of you that can pull you away.
There's one thing in that list that's missing from that list, that would be you, what Paul is...
Oh, nothing can separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Oh, by the way, I meant to say you can, though.
Right, yeah, again, the total opposite.
They like Hebrews 10 there at the end as well, which I don't know if you even want to get into that,
but it's just saying that if somebody turns from believing on the Lord Jesus Christ,
meaning they did not actually believe, God will have no pleasure in them.
I personally believe that is about salvation, but it's saying that if they are given the opportunity
to get saved and they don't get saved, God will have no pleasure in that individual.
Yeah, let's pull this passage up.
I have it on here.
"Fryan persuaded that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers,
nor things present, nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature shall
be able to separate us from the love of God which in Christ is our Lord."
Oh, but by the way, you can walk away.
Like what in the world?
Now some people teach that your life is not going to change that.
Some people teach that nothing present like you could change that.
Or what you do in the future, the things that are going to come that could change that.
Because that's exactly what it says.
But I just don't believe the Bible because I'm a heretic.
That's basically their message.
Let's just read the Bible and then just say no afterward.
Just scream no like an atheist or a God-hating reprobate.
...saying it's no external circumstance or external person, not even a demon, not even
an angel.
Advocates have once saved, always saved, propel this verse as though Paul followed his question
with the words, "Shall adultery or murder or theft or fornication or covetousness or
lying?"
In other words, no matter what our sins may be, they will not separate us from God's love.
Yet, that's not what Paul said.
He followed his question with these words, "Shall trouble or arson or persecution or
famine or nakedness or danger or sword?"
Now, those are not sins.
Those are things that Paul and his other faithful Christians were suffering.
There are multiple different ways to read this, none of which support the idea that
you can be-
Yeah, except for you just not reading Romans chapter 5 prior to this passage, which did
cover sin very clearly, and that God's grace will cover our sins, so just lying pieces
of trash.
So even if you're saying cleanse, transform, and then go out and live however you want
to live, commit whatever sin you want to commit, maybe your life gets short, maybe you lose
treasure in heaven, but you still go to heaven, there's not a syllable in the New Testament
that supports that idea, and Romans 8 certainly does not.
It's a serious travesty in the church right now that the most popular message ever preached
to the Sermon on the Mount has in many churches fallen by the wayside because it's considered
legalistic.
Many people have difficulty with the Sermon on the Mount.
They will look at what Jesus is saying there, and they will say, "Well, that's impossible."
Moses said, you know, "You should not murder," but Jesus said, "If you hate someone in your
heart, then you commit murder in your heart.
For if you forgive men their trespasses, your Heavenly Father will also forgive you.
But if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses."
Now, if "once saved, always saved" is true, then that statement is false.
For it would mean that we will be admitted to heaven even if we haven't forgiven others
their trespasses.
Jesus gets teaching about divorce and remarriage there.
On this earth.
He gets teaching about living a holy life.
He gets teaching about not following an adultery.
How serious the bad day is.
God won't show us mercy in this life.
On this earth.
In terms of physical punishment.
It's not really for the church.
What I'm trying to say, and the proof of that is in...
Then no one's going to heaven.
Like how hard, how hard are they going to make it?
You literally, like these guys are going to tell me that they have absolutely zero unforgiveness
towards any person.
Right.
Like I would love, I would love for Dr. Michael Brown to say that he has no hard feelings
or unforgiveness towards Pastor Steven Anderson or Pastor Roger Menes.
People that he openly has hated and even brought on his podcast at one point.
Yeah, he interviewed Pastor Menes.
He, this, this is a joke.
A joke.
When Jesus says you must be perfect as your Father in heaven is perfect.
Well, obviously.
So you must, you better be perfect then.
So obviously Jesus doesn't intend.
Yeah.
Oh, and by the way, not just forgiveness.
You can't have unforgiveness.
You have to be perfect.
But they said that they're not teaching sinless perfection.
But you're in the documentary.
It's not sinless perfection, it's just perfection.
For us to live in those ways.
We hear this be perfect, even your heavenly Father is perfect.
What is he talking about? I like to say a text without a context is just a pretext for whatever you want it to mean
Matthew 5 does not end with be perfect as a summary of Matthew 5 17 to 48, but as a crystallization
Hey, this the summary statement is not a summary
Quit trying to think that things are summaries. The love of God for all people visible in the sun and the rain falling upon all people
He does not only love those who love him. He does not only love those who love him back his love is perfect
It is complete. And that's the sense of the Greek word there tell you guys all have means perfect or mature or complete
Those are the three basic meaning all these guys that couldn't order a sandwich in Greek
You're gonna tell you what the Greek means of that word when Paul uses language
He's actually using some another point on the spectrum of words of what tell us can mean. Yeah, mainly he's talking about growing up
But they are you're like the word doesn't just have one meaning a perfection
It has a spectrum of meanings ranging from goal completion perfection maturity
And the idea of our righteousness surpassing out of the Pharisees
Well, that that just can't be done this ignores the interactions Jesus has with the Pharisees the Pharisees were disciples of Moses
They followed the law of Moses, but on the inside Jesus said they weren't cleansed that they appeared righteous on the outside
But inwardly they were filthy and so Christianity is about that inward purity just like y'all
Righteousness of the Pharisees was not something that was wow
Unattainable it was below the minimum accepted standard. The disciples are supposed to preach the gospel to all the nation
Yeah, just think about how meaningless a statement it is that your righteousness has to exceed
pedophiles and reprobates
Say that he was a Pharisee of the Pharisee and concerning the law was blameless
Yeah, well, no the Pharisees that is a high level of righteousness. They don't follow the law actually the Pharisees
It's like if your righteousness does not exceed serial killing rapists murderers and pedophiles
Basically the people that they're allowing to cross our border. They're not sending their best folks as long as your righteousness exceeds
Those crossing the border. You should probably have brother Oz do that. It's just like
What kind of what kind of nonsense state everything they say is so self-contradictory and has no real?
Practical application the whole first part of this this this whole video is like be perfect. Don't sin
Do everything right and then now they're saying like well
We're not saying you actually have to be perfect and actually do everything right and and the Bible never says that the Bible
Doesn't even tell you to be like that at all right, you know, it's like
It's just telling you that every time there's a command listed anywhere in scripture. It's a requirement for salvation
But I mean, come on, we're not gonna be perfect, right?
Everything is the exact opposite of what it says. It's like eternal life. That's not really eternal
You can't get plucked out of his hand. You can get plucked out of his hand be perfect
Don't it doesn't mean be perfect. It's just like why it is
You would think if someone was gonna write the Bible in the language that we speak
They would communicate to where we could actually understand it
Why is it that we always have to keep going back to the Greek to understand it?
Couldn't somebody finally just give us an English translation where it actually means what the words say
Just you know, there may be one. Hey, maybe what Ronald Reagan say, you know as pious judges try to get it, right?
It will not dawn on them. It has already been gotten right. It has already been gone, right?
We don't need you. What a great president. He was I tell you that
There it is. I didn't think we were gonna get Trump on the show, but you know
Hey, sometimes he sneaks on people suggest that we bring them on all the time. It's pretty easy to do
So have you thought about getting Donald Trump as a guest? That's a Shelley. Someone's literally email me that I know
We got eight minutes to bear
And it takes them to observe everything that he commanded the disciples to follow which would be the sermon amount and that's how we're
Supposed to be discipling people we cannot dare to use as a teaching when they claim to be new tests
It's like when the Sermon on the Mount ends
Jesus gives a little story that we sang as children that the wise man built his house upon a rock
It was actually a very serious story by Jesus an image to say at the end that the wise person is the one who hears these
Words of mine and does them it is absolutely
Disastrous to read the Sermon on the Mount as if Jesus is saying this is the intense righteousness that God wants and you'll never fulfill
It no that is not at all what Jesus does it is for people who are already disciples and Jesus says yeah
you know why he wanted to tell you that you could never attain it because then it motivates you to realize you need a savior and
That saviors Jesus Christ and he's the only one that's righteous and you know
Where is boasting it is excluded by what law the law of works? No, it's by faith
It's by faith. Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law you pious
Jerks that are just reprobate heretics. You're gonna die and split hell wide open you freaks
I hate these people. I just wanted to get that off my chest
Amen, you seem upset to them. This is what following me looks like in the kingdom of God
We are to be holy we're to strive for that that quality which sets us apart from the world
And that is not an option if we're not going to do that. We're not going to make it
This is what Jesus is teaching
So the Sermon on the Mount is discipleship for those who want to follow Jesus into the kingdom of God
Oh, this is the part. I was eluding this section is at the moment. You're safe. I'm having a hard time
And presence since he not only forgives who you are and what you've done
But at that moment he forgives every sin that you will ever commit in the future all your past sins are forgiven when you're first
Saved but your future sins are not pretty forgiven in other words you start with a clean slate
But you can muddy that slate again. We know that we're forgiven I died
Why don't these guys just go Catholic because that's Kathy died to be like in this state of grace. Yeah
On the cross is only effective every second again in the future like like he didn't die for whatever sins
Someone's about to commit in five seconds from now
Oh now he just he just paid for it and then oh now he just paid for some new sins
Oh now he just paid for some new sins out there in the world, but he didn't just pay for them all in the future
How about how about like, you know, it's even harder to believe in my mind
Which is obviously true is is the fact that Jesus Christ paid for people sins before they even like before he even came
I know like that's harder to believe than the fact that he already paid them
But they don't even want to address that they probably believe something weird on that too
But I'm just it's obviously as a once-for-all sacrifice like Hebrew says and Romans 4 clearly teaches
It says blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not
Romans chapter 4 will not impute sin debunked that easy
It's hard to it's hard to let them even speak. It's such trash
It's not our future sins because in second Peter chapter 1 it warns about those who forget that they were cleansed from their past sins
That's why we read in James chapter 5 verse 19 20 when the brother who is brought back after he falls away from the Lord
It says you'll save a soul from death and hide a multitude of sins
That's why we're told that we're to confess our sins and then he's faithful just forgive us our sins if people say
The future sins are also forgiven like some people who preach then 1 John 2 1 1 John 1 9 is meaningless
If we confess our sins, he's faithful and doesn't forgive us. I say Lord. I have to confess nothing
They're already forgiven. There's too many scriptures are over throughout the New Testament
It's what the early church taught as well. You must continue to confess your sins. Now if we die and there's one sin unconfessed
Not everything in the Bible is about salvation
Lord doesn't sever us from the vine. It's apostasy that severs us from the vine. That's a continual rebellion against God
So the idea that your future sins are forgiven would imply that your sins are forgiven apart from repentance
Now if you sin in the future, there is forgiveness for those sins if you repent
And what sin in the life of the Christian can do without repentance is get in the way of receiving the ongoing
Forgiveness that Christ has already provided. That's the way to look at it
So he died for all of our sins before we ever committed a single sin
However, forgiveness is transacted for what we have done
Our sins are taken care of at the cross by Jesus Christ
Our subjective experience of forgiveness and reconciliation with God is an ongoing relationship with God that we conduct
How are they taken care of exactly?
In confession, remission, repentance and restitution
What about "It shall no longer come in the condemnation"
You either believe in one saved always saved or you believe that you are saved by your worst
There is no righteous act that I can commit that would give me status with God
There is nothing I can do that would save me from the condemnation of my sins
We are saved by faith
What does give us standing with God?
The blood of Christ
Nothing else but the blood of Christ gives us standing with Him
Justification is by faith
That means a person is declared righteous by God on the basis of Christ's sacrifice
Of what Christ has done for us
So it is not about getting something the old fashioned way by earning it
It never was
The whole documentary up to this point they are telling you you have to earn it
Because of the grace of God are transformed into agents of good works in this world
Well look, let's just be honest
Didn't they not provide us with the right interpretation of every passage?
Yeah, pretty much
So it's not a shock that they can even tell us exactly what the Bible says about salvation
It's just that they don't believe it
They say these words and that's where it says like making merchandise of you with feigned words
Because what feigned means is fake, like they don't believe it, it's insincere
They can get up and repeat it
And boy, I'll tell you, when you live the Christian life, you'll meet a lot of fake people
You'll meet a lot of people that just say things and they don't mean them
They're insincere and it's really frustrating
And it's like these people are the same way
They're just saying things and they don't even know what they're saying
Obviously, good works are part of the process of being sanctified
In fact, Ephesians says that we were created in Christ Jesus for good works
Jesus and Matthew 5-16 demonstrate your good works, shine your light to the world that they'll praise your father in heaven
1st Peter 2 says live in such a way among the ungodly that they'll see your behavior and be drawn to God
If we're justified by faith, which is a living faith that results in works, it's not works that justifies us
Works are just the evidence of living faith
And as long as we are in the faith and we have the faith, then we have the promises of faith, like eternal life
Faith equals works, but we're not saved by works, we're saved by faith, but faith equals works
It's like...
What do you think you're doing?
Salvation head
Well, I'm sure a lot of our audience is saved, but maybe someone who's listening to this is not
And this might have just gone over their head
Like they just described salvation as kind of like a trust fund that has like stipulations
You know, they said, well, you know, all your sins have been paid for by the death of Christ
But in order to receive that transaction, you have to have an ongoing repentance of your sins
Kind of like how sometimes people have a trust fund and be like, well, you only get this money if you use it for college
Or you only get this money if you reach a certain age
It's like they're giving you this stipulation saying like, well, you're only going to really receive the forgiveness of sins if you repent of all your sins
And then immediately after they get done saying that they go into saying, oh, yeah, it's just faith alone
Of course, it's not of works. Of course, it's by grace. And then they switch back to oh, yeah
It works means that you end up or faith means that you end up having works. And so they redefine the word faith bouncing ball, right?
They the word again every everything doesn't mean what it means. So the word faith doesn't mean believing and trusting in Christ
What faith means is following the commandments. So then they say it's not by works
It's by faith, but then they interpret faith as following the commandments, which is works
That's why I would made that that circular loop there where it's like it's by faith faith is defined as works
It's not by works
It's faith and you're like you can't have it both ways
Faith has to mean some same thing not to mention right practically speaking if I
Have faith and works, but then I stop having works and I get into sin
Let's say I backslide into sin. These people are gonna tell me. Oh make sure you believe they're not these people are not gonna
Tell me make sure you believe no
They're gonna tell me to repent of whatever sins that I'm caught up in that I'm and I'm backslidden and I'm a state in
I'm in a state of being backslidden right now and they're gonna tell me to get out of that by
Repenting of those sins so it's like they sit there and say well if you have faith you'll have the works
But if you don't have the works, then you didn't really have faith, but those who don't have the works
It's like they're going around telling them to believe they're telling them to repent of their sin
Practically speaking my point is there's no way to apply this doctrine and have it actually make any sense
It's just self-contradictory, and they refuse to define all their words to mean separate things so all of these three tenses
I have been saved I am being saved I shall be saved and until you get through all three tenses the situation is not resolved
Justification by faith does not mean that there is a locked door behind us
Justification means that people have been launched into the kingdom of God and they are now called to follow Jesus if they choose to walk away
From Jesus it is because their faith has collapsed that they've chosen to walk away
It is not that we measure our salvation every day by how much we worked how many good deeds we did and how many bad deeds
We didn't do no that is not gospel holiness. That is not gospel grace
This is our response to what the grace of God has done in our lives those who are in Christ filled by the Spirit
Do what the law wanted them to do and even more so no no good works
Do not save us on the other hand salvation that does not issue in a transformed life
Has missed the whole point the promises of the new covenant in Jeremiah and in Ezekiel is that something new is going to occur?
And that's something new is at times expressed as a dynamic presence of God's Spirit
Jeremiah says God's gonna give you a new covenant
But it's gonna be a new covenant because I'm gonna take it from the stone out there to the heart here
It's new in its location. It's new that now
Somehow we will be able to do the things that God loves the Old Testament
Spirit it couldn't enable you to demonstrate the fruit of the law into my mind and writes it in my heart
What does that mean putting it into my mind means he gives me a desire but desire alone is not enough
I need ability as well. And so the Holy Spirit gives me power in my heart
So the Old Testament is asking that question. You want us to share your holy character, but we can't would you give us the Holy Spirit?
Yes, but your temple is hopelessly corrupted
How are we going cleanse the temple the blood of my son and now your temple having been cleansed
I can give you my Holy Spirit and you can walk like I walk
So the blood of Christ cleanses our flesh was that what he's saying?
Do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul but rather fear him who is able to destroy both soul and body
In hell those words were not spoken to unbelievers
But to his disciples a lot of New Testament scholars if they're asked the question is the fear of Lord in the New Testament play any
Role in our salvation
Disciple just means someone that's following him around doesn't mean they believe or sanctification
We would probably dismiss that out of hand and say no, of course not, you know
Yeah, they're missing a whole lot of scriptures
We're told to perfect holiness which is sanctification in the fear of God author Hebrews in chapter 4 verse 1 says let us fearless
We fail to enter the rest. I mean people all the time tell me they don't fear God
I'm afraid for someone that says that believing in conditionally sure you're in the hole. Where's she been? The whole?
She took a nap. We got to get our diversity higher numbers up a little bit more
Let's just throw her back in there to me stay on the straight and narrow
It helped me keep a conscience that was sensitive to the convictions of the Holy Spirit this once saved always saved doctrine
Just destroys the fear of God if we lean on his grace and don't willfully play
Yeah, you don't fear God at all anymore. Do you been evidently according to these guys?
You know one of us do hell fear
It caused me to fear to believe in Jesus Christ and even get saved and that fear didn't stop
I still believe in Jesus Christ and I realize that I'm still going to have consequences for my actions
But you know these guys are the ones that don't really fear God because they keep telling us the Bible doesn't mean what it actually means
They're the ones that don't fear God because they're just lying to people and being deceitful and not being intellectually honest
So, you know, they're the ones that truly don't fear God and they're leaning on their own understanding
They don't fear what the Bible says they think they've even figured these passages out. They haven't even gone to any clear
What why didn't they bring up John 3 16? Yeah, why didn't they bring up act 16 30 31?
Why didn't they bring up Romans chapter 3 verse 28? Why didn't bring up Galatians chapter number 3?
Why I mean, there's so many passages - they talk about any passage that has the words everlasting life in it
Not by works of righteousness, which we have done but by his mercy saved us they did John 10 earlier
Verses 27 and 28. Okay, how about first John 3 which says that that now are we the sons of God?
Yeah, did they explain how we can be unborn again? Because the Bible says after you've been born of the spirit you become a child of God
Can you stop being a child of God like they don't really address any of the serious issues?
Actually, they want to pretend like they're addressing these things to the audience out there. That's very ignorant
but these guys have not addressed verses that make it clear that salvation is by faith and
Faith alone and that faith actually means faith. It doesn't mean some other garbage works definition that they want to insert here
And they made it clear that they understand what the true
Interpretation is of a lot of these passages and they just simply reject the true meaning of the scripture
It shows that they have they hold the truth in unrighteousness. They've rejected it. They hate it. They hate the gospel
Well, we've got about four minutes. I'm just gonna let's just get it over with and then we can comment
Yeah, I hate this games with sin. We have nothing to fear if we choose to play games with sin
We have everything to fear
I see so many Christians who are frustrated because they're trying to live God's way and have their own way at the same time
It won't work. People are taught that once you're saved you can rebel against God and you can live like hell and still enter
The king of heaven that is a lie from the pit hell
I've got to tell the truth and if we do not get serious about it many of us
We are going to perish because we want to believe a lie and we will heap unto ourselves these false teachers that will itch your ear
We are called to holier. So it's not optional. This is the will of God first
That's learning is for even your Holiness Hebrews call 14 without holiness. No one will see the Lord
It's so funny. Do you remember at the beginning in this documentary? I'm sorry
I had I had to pause it
Do you remember at the beginning of this documentary where they said like virtually no one believes in what saved always saved and then now they're
Trying to say that it's like this so so dangerous thing that everybody believes in or something like that
it's another contradiction now that now they're gonna have all these itching ears and heaping all these teachers there's all these people and it's
Like you just said it was like a minority position, right?
And then now you're like trying to make it like you should have had a contradiction counter. Good night
If you live after the flesh you shall die
But you through the spirit the power of the Holy Spirit crucified or put the death of you the flesh you shall live
That's a warning but also a promise that you can't have victory over the flesh read the early church fathers
These guys were being martyrs of faith and not giving in and we're walking and living holy lives
You know and it's really clear in scripture that we can live a victorious life
In fact, we expect it to his believers a holy life is very possible
Jesus said the Bible says it never allows you to be tempted above what you're able to bear
He always provides a way of escape take seriously the warning to flee sin or resist the devil or don't quench the work of the spirit
In your life, he said to be my disciples. You must pick up your cross and deny yourself
In other words, you can't be swept away by dopamine put your feet down. See what am I doing?
I'm not gonna let people leave me to help but living a wicked life that refused repentant because they told me I can't have victory
You once saved always saved his dopamine. You have victory the victory is in the power of the spirit through the Lord
Jesus Christ will give you power to live a holy life
God really does change us and strongholds really can be broken those that used to be addicted can be set free from addiction
The new birth really is a new birth walk in the spirit and you will not fulfill the desires of life
Simply seek the father and walk in the spirit
You will have victory Titus the second chapter says that the grace of God which has appeared to all men
Teaches us to say no to ungodliness it empowers us to live godly lives
What happens is that as that happens as love joy peace patience kindness goodness and self-control happens in your life
Well, then increasingly you don't want to sin. So we always fall short of God's glory
That's one thing to say, you know what?
I'm not perfect like Jesus yet agrees my heart help me to be more loving and more like Christ
It's another thing to be living a life and rebelling to God purposely committed adultery and drunkenness
So how bad do you have to be?
What's the line? They never tell you?
And not really repent? What is the line?
That you can cross to where you're no longer saved?
Jesus preached repentance
Repent. Change your mind, change your life. If you don't change your mind, you can't change your life.
God is calling us to change our mind.
And repent means a turning about. It's like the military term on the parade ground where you say about turn.
They turn 180 degrees and face the other way.
Repentance is turning to Jesus Christ in faith. A change of heart, a change of mind, which leads to a change of lifestyle.
The word metanoia, repentance, means an actual turning away.
Again, they know that people define it as a change of heart.
You might not feel guilty. It depends on how anesthetized your conscience is.
It is no longer running down that broad road that leads to destruction that Jesus and many people run.
But it is a change of heart, a change of mind, whereby I turn to the Lord Jesus Christ, who is the way, the truth, and the life.
He is the narrow road.
Again, the vast majority of people are going down the wrong road.
But I also proved earlier that everybody disagrees with this doctrine.
Do you remember that tree?
It was like all of these branches are going the wrong way.
And there is just this tiny little branch going this other way.
And then they have the path, and it is so self-contradictory.
Amongst the trees where they all agree on that doctrine, those people aren't holy enough to get saved.
Right.
We have apostasy leading to dire consequences and eternal judgment.
I believe that we should fall on our knees before God for His grace.
Genesis to Revelation.
Bottom line, God hates sin, but He has given us free will.
And there will always be consequences, either way we choose.
At the end of the day, it is no one's fault but our own if we misunderstand.
No one has an excuse because they will not give diligence to what is already written.
If I put that b-roll in, would you have asked me to take it out or what?
I don't know, it's confusing.
Here's a bunch of verses.
You gotta like it, huh?
Oh hey, we have permission to download...
Who made this?
Chris White, what a devil.
What's up with white people?
Yeah, right?
See, these are the people I said made it alright.
You can just pull us all up on this page.
Wow, that was painful.
That was hard to get through.
I just have to be honest.
Okay, overall reaction, we'll start with you, Ben.
What are your thoughts?
Let me ask you this.
I want to kind of craft this narrative.
Obviously people disagree with us on this.
Obviously some people believe that you can lose your salvation.
Do you think that they actually, within that even crowd,
do you think they did a good job in this documentary?
Obviously we think it was trash, but I'm just saying like,
did they put forth a compelling argument?
Did they do a good job in this documentary?
Given the fact that they literally will tell you what the passage is saying,
that people believe this is saying what you might think it says or what the text says,
but it actually says the opposite, no, absolutely not.
Especially in Matthew 24, that was the one place that they went to where I lost my mind,
because the guy's like, "This isn't about end times. People say it's about end times. It's really not."
And then he just goes on.
Anybody with a functioning brain will recognize that they are twisting the scripture,
that they're giving you the complete opposite of what it actually says.
And I don't know, I mean, as far as their crowd is concerned, I can't really give you an answer,
because if they're as brain dead as the people who made the documentary, that it's possible they're going to think
that it was the greatest film ever and totally destroyed, once saved, always saved.
But as you guys already pointed out earlier in tonight's broadcast,
they did not address many, many key points that we have,
including what you brought up, the fact that we are now the children of God.
How in the world could you possibly be unborn after being born?
That doesn't make any sense. We could go on and on, but no, I think they did an absolutely horrible job.
They straw manned their opposition a lot of the time, and they took the Scriptures
and completely just twisted them and contorted them.
They have no idea what the hell they're talking about.
It's obvious these are folks who have completely rejected the truth, 100%.
Brother Oz, what do you think?
Yeah, I mean, I still think watching this documentary actually did have a little bit of profit
because it really is a good case study on what a false prophet looks like,
what a wolf in sheep's clothing looks like, because these men,
they have a lot of head knowledge of the Bible, they're familiar with the passages,
but it seemed like every single passage that they went to, they took out of context,
and the only time that they really exegeted the scripture properly was when they were explaining,
now here's what some people think this is meaning, but other than that, it was pretty much 100% just taken out of context.
They weren't internally consistent with themselves whatsoever,
and to me, 2 Peter 2 just kept ringing in my ears throughout this documentary about how it would be better for these guys to have not known the way of righteousness
than after they've known it to forsake it, because Pastor Shelley said it, these people are going to burn in the lowest hell.
These people are the scum of the earth. The false prophet is the worst person in existence.
Why? Because they're not just going to hell themselves, but they're dragging people down with them.
Because, make no mistake about it, if you believe you can lose your salvation, you are trusting in yourself to be saved.
You are saying that you are the arbiter of whether or not you go to heaven based on if you are living a holy life.
Rather than, you know, what Jesus said, "Verily, verily, I say unto you, he that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation, but is passed from death unto life."
So, you know, if you're not 100% sure that you're on your way to heaven, go type in "The Bible Way to Heaven" by Pastor Shelley and make sure you know that salvation is by faith alone and that it's once saved, always saved.
Some good points. You know, this is my personal opinion, but when it comes to anti-Christian doctrine and not believing in "once saved, always saved" or salvation by faith, the most internally consistent debaters or those who would attack our position would be the Catholics.
And it's funny because they kind of allude to the Catholic position a little bit there at the early part, the patristic fathers and some of the arguments that were made.
But, you know, it was really easy to poke holes in their theology, to poke holes in their internal contradictions, as well as the fact that, you know, they did not address the problematic passages at all.
They did not address John 3.16, they did not address Romans chapter 3 verse 28, they did not address Romans chapter number 4, they didn't address Titus chapter 2, they didn't address Galatians 2, Galatians chapter number 3, they didn't address Ephesians chapter 2 verse 8 and 9.
Like, they're not addressing these things, they're not addressing John chapter 1 verse 12.
So, it's a very disingenuous position, they're going to passages that very few people would
ever use in this conversation, very clearly taken out of context, just like Ben pointed
out.
I mean, Matthew 24, you're going to really tell me that that passage is not about the
end times or future things, like it's just kind of insane how they approach this entire
argument.
And so, you know, when you listen to people that are actually Catholic debaters, they're
going to actually address a lot more of these positions.
And I think that you have to just realize the unsaved does not have scripture on their
side.
They need time and really smart people to argue and debate this for like 2,000 years
to come up with a systematic theology that isn't just obviously pointed out as being
contradictory.
That's why the Catholic Church is really, in a sense, for those that are not saved,
the epitome of doctrine, theology, what people point to.
When you talk to these people that are not Catholic, you know, they're even worse in
my opinion.
I don't know.
I don't know how you feel about this.
Obviously Catholics have so many serious issues doctrinally and that are easily proven wrong.
But I'm just saying if you're to debate someone like a Trent Horn or some of these Catholic
apologists, it seems like they're a lot more skilled at talking about some of these more
problematic passages and providing kind of a somewhat seemingly cohesive narrative.
I felt like this was a horrible documentary.
I never even for a second felt like nervous like oh man they made a good point here or
oh man they're kind of like bringing up something that's kind of difficult to answer.
I know what passages I would bring up if I were to try my best to make our doctrine look
bad.
They did not really bring up hardly any of those passages.
So I thought it was a complete fail.
It was boring.
It was not compelling.
I can't see anybody being compelled by this documentary.
It would only be confirmation bias for the handful of listeners that they have.
I thought it was just a complete trash terrible documentary.
These people would lose in any debate to any saved person.
You know they're just they're losers and this was just I thought it was horrible.
You gotta love how at the end these guys were trying to make themselves appear to not be
a Calvinist, right?
That's how they presented themselves.
We're not Calvinists.
But then at the end they were basically teaching that God's Holy Spirit will just make you
righteous automatically.
That kind of doesn't really sound like free will.
I mean you claim to affirm that people have free will and that you're not a Calvinist
but then you taught that you don't have free will at the end of your documentary here and
that the Spirit will just make you do that which is right automatically and that's the
huge distinction between what is true and what is false.
Yes, the Bible does have passages about God putting His Spirit within His people causing
them to do good works but that will happen if His people walk in the Spirit.
Obviously if you walk in the Spirit you're going to exhibit the fruit of the Spirit and
you will see a changed life but you have the free will to either walk in the Spirit and
walk in the flesh.
Romans chapter 7 outlined that which is why they wanted to take that out of the equation
and claim that it's talking about when Paul wasn't even saved.
That's all I have to say.
Well, I feel like we've thoroughly destroyed this garbage.
I want to see if we can just change subjects.
We're going to finish the show soon but there is a video that I wanted to play and this
is a little bit different subject.
Look, once saved always saves the true doctrine folks.
We proved it.
Listen to a sermon on it.
Listen to our by way to heaven.
I do want to bring up some of these kind of breaking news and I want to get your thoughts
on this.
Apparently there's been a public statement released saying that Infowars is going to
be auctioned off and that they're basically shutting down.
Again, they've kind of said this earlier and it didn't happen but it sounds serious.
Owen Schreuer put out like a three-minute video.
Do you mind?
I know this is a little bit out of the realm of what our show is but we've kind of wrapped
up.
I just wanted to listen to it and then we could react and then we can kind of finish
the show.
This is the after party.
Consider this the after party.
This is our final thoughts here.
Final thoughts.
And next week's going to be a really great show.
You're going to want to tune in.
You don't want to miss it so I want to plug that as well but we're going to give our production
crew just a second here.
Pastor Mejia, right?
Well, I don't want to give away any spoilers but at the end of the day it's going to be
a really good show so what is, is this ready?
I don't know if this is ready or not.
Just go ahead and play it.
Can you make it bigger?
I can't hear it either.
We'll just, we'll just wait just a second here and I saw, I saw on X a few other people
commenting on this particular podcast.
Hey, one other shout out, Pastor Jimenez apparently is starting a live podcast called
Leadership Live.
Now I don't know what he's trying to do.
He's trying to do it at the same time we're doing our show, but he's trying to draw away
disciples after the Baptist bias or something.
No, I'm just kidding.
Hey, if you want to watch his show, go for it.
I think he's doing like 30 minute episodes.
He's on Rumble as well, Verity Baptist Church.
You should check out Pastor Jimenez's podcast.
We may pull that up here in a minute, just a screenshot of that, but let's see if we
can play this clip.
I just wanted to hear what he had to say.
Breaking news about Infowars.
So I figured I would come on here and just make a public statement.
Let me start with this.
I've never been more proud of the work that I've done at Infowars.
You see, when I left sports media in 2016 to get into political commentary, it was Infowars
that invited me in.
It was Infowars that offered me a job.
I was an anti-government guy.
I was an anti-lying media guy.
I was an anti-lying politician guy, and quite frankly, for somebody like me to break into
the political media like that was not an easy thing to do, and there weren't really platforms
out there that would host a guy like me or eventually give me a show and allow me to
create my own content in the way that I see fit.
But Infowars did, and it's now total confirmation that I made the right decision.
And let me tell you, it was a decision that came with a lot of consequences.
Some obvious.
I was put in prison.
I've been sued multiple times.
I've been attacked.
I've been assaulted.
I've been censored across the internet.
I get blackballed from pretty much, or have been in the past, from pretty much all conservative
outlets.
But you notice that the narrative is changing.
You notice that everybody sounds like Infowars now.
You notice that everybody wants to have Alex Jones on now.
Because they're realizing Alex Jones and Infowars were not censored, were not attacked,
and now as of today, being shut down and liquidated, not for lying, but for telling the truth.
Because you see, if it was for lying, then wouldn't it be the mainstream media on trial?
Trump-Russia collusion, Hunter Biden laptop is fake, vaccines are safe and effective,
weapons of mass destruction, should I go on?
So no, I've never been more proud of my work at Infowars than I am today.
I've never had total confirmation that I joined the right team of telling the truth and anti-corruption
media than today when I joined Infowars.
And now, yet again, at this level of the Infowars saga, people will see how the First Amendment
and free speech is under attack and all the weapons they will use against Americans to
try to take your rights from you and shut you down if you won't be silenced.
Now, that's all I'm going to say on this.
I'm not going to comment on the court developments or the legalese.
I would advise you to tune in to the Alex Jones show tomorrow.
This is his company.
This is his story.
I was just honored to be a part of it.
But stay tuned, ladies and gentlemen.
We're in a fight for the future of this country.
We're in a fight for freedom.
We're in a fight for truth.
And it's never been more proof positive that I made the right decision in that choice to
join Infowars.
And I've never been more proud of the work I've done at Infowars than I am today.
So breaking news, I don't know exactly all the details.
Supposedly Infowars is going to be liquidated.
They're going to sell the website.
It seems serious still.
I don't know exactly the timeline.
What are your thoughts, Ben?
Well, it's not good news.
Whether you love Alex Jones or hate him, I know people probably have mixed opinions out
there.
But I like Alex.
If I'm going to tune into what's going on in the world, I'll tune into his radio show
and hear his perspective, the perspective of his crew.
I think it's an attack on free speech.
It's clearly an attempt to silence an organization that is providing alternative media, that
is providing a perspective that falls outside of the mainstream narrative.
So it's bad news.
Hopefully they could do something about it.
I know they've talked a lot about potentially shutting down.
This may be it though.
Who knows?
Maybe he'll start up something else.
I'm not sure.
But I think it's bad news for the news ecosystem that we have right now.
Yeah.
What do you think, Brother Dylan?
I mean, I think it's wicked as hell that we live in a time where the government can literally
liquidate a man's business that he's built for 30 years based off of the words that he
said about something that was unpopular.
That's a terrible, terrible precedent.
That's a communistic ideology that we just take something from a man for what he said,
thought crimes.
It's just insane how far down the depths of hell our country has gone and it doesn't seem
like it's going to get better anytime soon.
I will say that there's probably a silver lining for Alex Jones himself and for Infowars
because the show will probably be a lot more popular in the future, whatever he does do
than it even is right now.
I mean, usually cancel culture backfires on these stupid communists and I hope it continues
to do so.
And yeah, I mean, I hate these people.
I hate communists.
It does seem like our country is becoming very communist.
I kind of feel bad for his crew because I think that Alex is going to be fine in the
sense that he could probably go on anybody's show however, whenever he wants.
But you know, if he doesn't have the ability to have the infrastructure in the building
and the people and the production and the crew and all the stuff, plus, you know, all
the merchandise and the sales and all the relationships and all, I mean, all that stuff
just takes time, effort, energy to build up, scale up.
And of course, some of his crew is going to probably, like, I think that Owen is a big
enough name at this point that he could probably do his own thing or join up with other people
if he needed to.
Maybe they'll still continue to work together.
I have no idea.
But it's sad because you can tell this communism regime is not just going after the people
that are even saved, but even just going after anybody saying the truth right now.
And they just keep grinding the gears and just getting more and more to the point where
you can't speak the truth.
And you know, that's why it's important for us and other people to have shows where we
talk about these things and bring them up.
And so, definitely sad for them.
I want to plug, if you can switch to my browser, I want to plug Pastor Menez's podcast.
I haven't listened to it.
It happened tonight.
And so, Leadership Live with Pastor Roger Menez, episode one, the greatest hindrance
to your leadership.
I think it aired tonight, same time as our show, but you should go check it out, even
if you're watching us live.
Love for you to check it out.
And I didn't even get paid for this promo.
He didn't even tell me.
If he had told me, I would have said like, don't do it during our show.
But you know, hey, the least thing I can do, Pastor Menez has been such a great friend
of ours and has helped us so much.
The last thing I can do is not promote him on something.
So I just wanted to promote that.
Any final thoughts?
Do you have anything you want to plug, Brother Os?
This Sunday, we're having a big day, like I said, Fast OKC, you're coming up and preaching
for us.
And we're going to have a fellowship event after the service as a kind of going away
party for the Furr family.
Vangelis Furr and his family are sadly going to be leaving us.
But it's good for your guys' church.
He's coming down to be on your staff.
So we're definitely going to miss them, but we want to celebrate them and honor the great
work that they've done for us at this church for years and years.
So it's going to be a great time, great preaching, that food, we're going to cater some Mexican
food fellowships.
So if you're anywhere in the area, love to have you this weekend.
Yeah.
You got to go to Oklahoma City, got to go check out what's going on up there.
And I love Oklahoma City.
It's a great church, great people, great spirit, and it'll be a lot of fun to come up there
and see you guys again soon.
Any other final thoughts you have been?
I think we thoroughly refuted the documentary that we went over tonight, and I appreciated
the opportunity to be part of it.
It's always important to attack damnable heresy, false doctrine, especially on a subject like
this that you could look at as one of the foundations of the faith, salvation, right?
And so hopefully we were able to clear up the confusion for those who are not sure about
this and I would highly advise you to go to spckjv.com.
If you're not sure that you're going to heaven, watch the Bible Way to Heaven video right
now and find out what it actually says about this very important subject.
I want to shout out to our audience, thanks to you guys tuning in live and we appreciate
your comments.
Sometimes we try to do spaces, call ins, things like that.
So of course that's always on the table.
We love for you to join in while we're doing the show.
I'm going to read a few comments.
Someone, Jenny asked the question if we have any new pastors being sent to Virginia.
I have no idea.
Steve Bauman wants to plug the Shur Foundation Baptist Church in Seattle.
So if you're anywhere near Seattle and you would like to check out the Shur Foundation
Church plant up there in Seattle, it's at 13470 Martin Luther King Jr. Way.
What a great street to be on.
Seattle, Washington.
So you can go and be on the street where the guy who didn't believe Jesus is God or in
the miracles.
There you go.
Also we got 21 Tripp said bring back prisonplanet.com.
So there's an Alex shout out there.
So we got a lot of people.
Pillar and Ground said the end of an era but Alex Jones shall live.
So shout out to our friend out there PJ, Peter James, the brojuice, brojestew was in the
chat.
Brojestew?
Brojestew.
How do you say, I'm just kidding.
We know brother Jimmy.
He said that Musk should buy Infowars.
That would be so dumb.
That's a good idea.
Why not?
I love this idea.
And then he's like, and then he can let Alex Jones run it.
That would be so savage.
Perfect.
There's our solution.
The guy has a trillion dollars.
Why not?
That's hilarious.
I mean, how much did he even get sued for?
Was it a billion?
It was something ridiculous.
It was stupid.
Yeah, but I'm sure he could buy it pennies on the dollar.
They probably won't even care.
That would be the greatest thing ever.
Axe231 says I enjoy listening to Harrison Smith.
Someone said everyone in Oklahoma is asleep except for Dillon.
I don't know what that means.
Some people, oh someone said Paul Wittenberger is greater than Chris White.
I agree.
Not even close.
Yes.
Hey, Mark.
Not even close.
Shout out to Paul Wittenberger.
Yeah, shout out to brother Paul Wittenberger.
We need some more, we need some more vintage documentaries that we had.
You need to have Paul on for that moon landing show.
We should, someone should ask Paul if he should get Pastor Anderson in one of his documentaries.
The bro Jay Stu said a locked door behind us, I like it.
They said like salvation is like a locked door behind us that we can't.
It's just like the Ark.
They got on the Ark and God sealed the door and yeah, great point.
I like that terminology.
It's so funny these haters come up with really good examples and someone said this film is
giving me a headache.
That was Rosemary Heim, shout out to her.
She's usually listening.
Also, I saw a lot of good comments in here from a few different people.
Some people were shouting out that they really liked watching the show with us.
And so yeah, I just wanted to read a few comments there.
Thanks to everybody who joined us.
Of course you don't want to miss next week's episode, The Baptist Bias.
It's at 8 p.m. on Tuesdays.
You can follow us on Rumble.
You can follow me at bandpastor.
You got to follow Ben on Twitter as well @BenTheBabdus, I think it's like 316, or just type in Ben
The Baptist.
Also, he's got a YouTube channel, Ben The Baptist.
You want to check him out there.
On YouTube he makes his own videos and commentary on lots of clips, and so if you've enjoyed
him on the show, you'll really enjoy his YouTube channel.
We got lots of ways you can tune in.
I think you can even find The Baptist Bias on all kinds of podcasts that we have.
Of course, go to baptisbias.com/join, and you can join our email list, and we've got
some documentaries and other episodes and other information on there as well.
But thanks so much, guys, for joining us on the show, because look, everyone's got a perspective
out there, but you need to get The Baptist Bias.