Question about the Bible, but I've been struggling to find an answer. I tried asking a cemetery professor or excuse me
I'm sorry a seminary professor, but he seemed to be a little dead inside
Then I tried reddit Yahoo answers, but I thought what do trolls really know perhaps a Christian
Hotline would help the nice Indian man on the line seemed interested in helping me yet
It was scammy when he asked if I had a Walmart gift card for him
I watched thousands of videos from popular preachers like TD jakes, Joyce Meyer
Kenneth Copeland and Joel Osteen, but surprisingly they never mentioned the Bible a single time
Then I realized I need a Jew so I flew to New York
Found a local synagogue and was led down into their basement with an odd
Staircase down into a tunnel for some weird reason it smelled like a dirty sewer
After stepping over some baby toys and strollers and dirty mattresses
We found a dark corner when all of a sudden I heard a loud rat-like
Screeching that startled me, but I was relieved to find out that it was just Ben
Chiro good old Ben Shapiro
It seemed logical that of all people he would have all the answers
For some reason all he could tell me was that his wife was a doctor though
I have ten thousand instructors still lacked any answer, but I heard there was hope was still one place
I hadn't gone yet still I was warned about these people that they wouldn't speak
Well concerning our most beloved President Biden. I heard they don't like liberals
Satanists BLM the Talmud hijabs that they would never eat soy they work out and they think men
Should be in charge. They even call Kamala Harris a whore
They believe 9/11 was an inside job and they can't stand flat earthers from what I was able to gather
There was something also about how they don't like tiny hats either since I'm out of options
I'm willing to hear what they have to say folks
I'm looking for someone with the Baptist bias everybody. Thanks for joining us on the Baptist bias
Unfortunately, we're not located in these sewers down in New York
So I guess you're gonna miss out on finding Ben Shapiro. What how did you get out of that sewer?
I found like a trapdoor and there was a ladder there and I got the hell out as quickly as I possibly could
Did you see any Ninja Turtles down there anything? No Ben Shapiro's like entire family though was there
It was a little weird his sister. Were they playing violin or anything? Yeah, it was it was definitely strange. Well
We got a great show for you tonight. It's actually a call-in show. We're gonna be doing a live
Question and answer show on the Baptist bias. The truth fears no investigation
So we're gonna bring on the questions, but we're gonna be prioritizing call-ins this evening
Now we've got a lot of questions already that have been sent in through email
People are putting questions in the chat. And of course, if you can't call in feel free to throw questions into the chat
But we are gonna be prioritizing call-ins. I think we even have a call-in but before we get to those callers
I'm gonna get our guest here on the show. We're bringing on pastor Steven Anderson for this call-in show pastor Anderson
How's it going? It is going great. Thank you so much for having me on
Yeah, we're excited to have a live Q&A
You know, we don't really know how to prepare for the show, but we're we're pretty excited like and if you want to call in
You can call in two three one
Baptist and we're gonna be taking live callers
I think we already have someone that's called in and is ready to get the show kicked off
His name is Chris. He's from San Antonio
We're gonna see if we can bring him on the line and Chris. Can you hear us? Yes, sir
How's it going? It's going okay, and where are you from?
well, I live in San Antonio and
Yeah, San Antonio, Texas, obviously great. So you got a question for us. What's your question? Yes, sir
so me and my wife have been attending an old IFB church for almost a year now and
you know at the beginning they really liked us and
You know, they would get up sometimes and be like, oh, we're so thankful for this young couple that come here
But uh, oh you guys have only been saved for a handful of years
Wow
you guys are really zealous and stuff like that because we would attend, you know the soul winning and
We would you know, we would frequently talk with the soul winning leaders and stuff like this
And you know, he knows our salvation plan and stuff like this
but recently it just seems like I don't know like a
like something happened at the church or something like that cuz like this last Sunday afternoon service the pastor got up and said
Okay, only these eight people are allowed to preach the gospel and I want repent of your sins
preached in the gospel and
then later
Another person who's familiar with the new ife he asked the pastor because he also preaches the gospel
He asked the pastor. What does he mean on repent to your sins? He's incredibly vague
He says that there's no definition of repentance that everyone has their own
Definition of repentance that he doesn't like how we just preach believe and that we take you know
more than five seconds to preach the gospel like he literally said like
You take too long. You take more than five to six minutes to preach the gospel you guys confuse them with
Eternal so you guys ask him about if they were to commit suicide and mind you like my wife asked everyone if they were to commit suicide
Because she's preaches mostly in Spanish or she talks to mostly people in Spanish
So obviously they have a heavy Catholic background
so she always asked him if you were to commit suicide and it seems like just recently that this the whole thing is like
Blown up and it just seems like we're not welcome at the church and I just wanted to get your opinion on
What do you think we should do? Like we're not sure I'll let pastor Anderson go
Give an answer here quick before I chime in. You know, I always just tell people to go to the best possible church in your area
So if that's literally the best possible church in your area
Then even with those wrong things like I would go there before I just went nowhere
But because San Antonio is a huge city
I'm sure that there are lots of independent fundamental Baptist churches to check out and so, you know at this point
When it gets that bad, you know, cuz that sounds pretty gnarly. I would definitely be looking at other churches and trying to find a better option
Yeah, I think that's great advice. I agree that I always say the same thing go to the best church in your area
To me to me if I were trying to order like priorities
Obviously, they would have to be King James and you know, I would want them to be right on the gospel
So even if a church didn't have any soul winning or any of that other stuff going on
But they're not harassing you about soul winning. It seems like that might be a better option
Then going to a church that's gonna kind of harass you or give you a hard time about getting people saved
I know I went to an old IFB church at one point in time that
Did not have soul winning didn't emphasize soul winning didn't have anybody going out
But they were not against it and I even told the pastor like I go out and and they were fine with that
So, you know, I think that there could be other options that maybe aren't harassing you because
Obviously, you have to put up with some things in a church
You know if it's a pre-trib or whatever
But like it would be kind of hard on me or my family for constantly being harassed about soul winning specifically or what?
We believe on the gospel. That's a pretty it's a pretty big deal
So I would say if you could find something that's not gonna harass you on that issue might be might be better
Yes, thank you for the advice
Yeah, cuz they go soul winning but they said like if you don't preach this thing that you're no longer
Welcome to soul win for the church and like he up the pastor also talked about like saying how we only preach
Believe it's I've heard the pastor. Yeah, I've heard the pastor
You know right before the altar call gives the you know
He gives a plan of salvation like a shortened version of the plan of salvation and I've never once heard him say repent of your
Sins any of this stuff. It's literally just like he just says believe you can't lose it
If you commit suicide, you can't even lose it
But just like all of a sudden like like a switch went off that just said, you know
But yeah, we're looking into churches anyway
Well, thanks for giving us, you know a call and you know, I think there's a lot of people that kind of fit in your scenario
so hopefully people, you know take our advice just go to the best church in their area and
Try to find one that's gonna be not adversarial. Maybe and so when he thanks for the call
Thanks, Chris. We got we're gonna go to another caller here
Brandon I think we have from Michigan is gonna be asking us a question here. Hey Brandon, how's it going?
It's going good. And where are you from?
I'm from Mount Morris, Michigan. Cool. What what questions you have for us this evening?
Well, I had one in regards to
Like Catholics and Orthodox kind of what your guys's take is for the best approach to
kind of communicating with them, especially since they seem to
Get hung up on the problem of history and you know
I've run into a lot who will take a lot of things the Bible says but can't get over the stumbling block of
Kind of this apostolic tradition thing. I just want to make sure I understand your question
So you're just saying there's people that are hung up on the apostolic doctrine and you're just wanting to understand how to combat that
I just want to make sure I understand what you're asking. Yeah kind of that and just
Is there any other ways that you guys approach, you know Catholics and Orthodox in regards to maybe they're understanding all the things from the Bible
but they look at just a history alone and they look at how far back Catholicism and
Orthodoxy going they go. Well, this is the historic, you know
Christianity
regardless of what the Bible might say, is there anything that you guys might have that you would use to kind of combat that?
Well, I would say I'll let Pastor Anderson respond to this
but I did preach a sermon not that long ago called "Old
Heresy" and basically I just kind of pointed out how there's been a lot of people
that have bad doctrine for a long period of time and that doesn't necessarily
like the length of time doesn't prove the authenticity of a doctrine.
So Jews have been believing what they've been believing for a long time. Muslims have been believing what they've been believing for a long time.
And technically if you want to go back according to secular sources,
Hinduism stretches really far back in time and that doesn't make it authentic or real.
So even if, let's just say and I don't believe it for a second,
let's just say hypothetically that the Catholic Church literally could trace all the way back to Peter, which again,
I don't agree with that.
Secular history will tell you it's kind of like fourth century, but let's just assume they could even do that.
There was still heresy at the time of Christ.
You know, there was time of the apostles.
I mean, the apostles are saying there's people writing letters pretending to be from us.
There's bad churches.
There's churches that are apostatizing at that time.
So why would I care even if they could trace that lineage?
Plus, additionally, they always try to say this.
They try to say like, oh, well, the Catholic Church has just remained all the way from back,
you know, when we started or something like that.
But I would ask this question and they'll bring up, you know, verses that talk about
how the gates of hell are not going to prevail against the church.
But here's the thing, where's the church at Ephesus?
Where's the church at Smyrna?
Where's the church at Thyatira?
Like those churches don't exist today.
So obviously churches can come and go, churches can be good, bad, and how long they last doesn't
really mean if they're good or not.
In fact, a lot of Southern Baptist churches in our area are probably a hundred years old,
but they're not very good anymore.
They may have been pretty good when they started, but now they have a lot of heresy and false
doctrine.
I think when it comes to Catholicism specifically, people that buy into Catholicism just aren't
saved and you really just got to get them saved first because talking about these other
points usually you're not going to get too far.
But I do want to give Pastor Anderson a chance here to give your thoughts on the historicity
issue.
Like you just mentioned, I'm a strong believer in sticking to the gospel if I'm dealing with
people like if I'm because typically if I'm interacting with Roman Catholics, it's either
door to door soul winning or maybe just someone that I know in my personal life that I'm witnessing
to and I want to just start by preaching the gospel to them.
And I'm a strong believer in the fact that the vast majority of people, we don't need
to like tailor the gospel to their particular religion.
And this is probably comforting for a lot of people who sometimes think, "Oh, well,
in order to go soul winning, I have to be ready to combat all these different heresies.
I have to know about all these religions because I've got to tailor a different gospel plan
for the Catholics versus the Mormons versus the Jehovah's Witnesses."
But at the end of the day, all of these false religions have one thing in common.
They're all teaching a workspace salvation.
And so your basic, soul-winning plan that goes through the Roman's road and explains
that we're sinners, that we deserve hell, that Christ died for us, that salvation's
by faith alone, that we cannot lose our salvation, that's all stuff that all of these people
need to hear.
And so if I'm dealing with a Roman Catholic, I want to get through that whole basic plan
of salvation first, then at the very end of the conversation, after I've already gone
through the whole gospel, if they actually listened to the whole gospel and actually
absorbed what I was saying, then at that point, I'll say tactfully and kindly, hey, you know,
you mentioned that you were Roman Catholic, here's what the Roman Catholic Church believes,
it's different.
And then, you know, that's where maybe some kind of a conversation could come up about
the history issue.
And you know, maybe somebody wants to argue with me about that or whatever.
I'm not really interested in arguing about that, you know, I would basically give them
a couple of points to consider, same points that Pastor Shelley just brought up.
But at the end of the day, if someone makes history their final authority, well, they're
probably going to be a Roman Catholic and they're probably going to go to hell when
they die.
Because guess what?
The Roman Catholic Church wrote the history book.
History is by definition subjective.
That's what history is.
If you even just look at the etymology of the word history, it goes back to the first
sentence of Herodotus' work, which now is known as Herodotus' Histories, and he starts
out that work, and this is around the fifth century BC or whatever, and he starts out
his work by saying this is an inquiry into, and I'm paraphrasing, but he basically says
this is an inquiry into the wars between the Greeks and the Persians and why they have
this conflict.
The word inquiry there is where we get our word history, the Greek word sounds like our
English word history, that's where it comes from.
Sorry it's not his story, although that sounds cool, but the bottom line is that Herodotus
is being subjective, he's saying hey, I'm going to talk about not only what happened,
but why I think it happened and what are some of the root causes, and he's constantly giving
his opinion of course throughout the work.
That's what history is.
Every single history book is going to give opinion, right?
If I were to read a history book about World War II, you're not going to read a history
book about World War II that's not going to make any kind of moral judgments about people
like Hitler or Mussolini or Joseph Stalin, you know, that's what history is.
And so of course church history is basically being written by Roman Catholics or people
that are sympathetic to Roman Catholics, sympathetic to infant baptism and these other just blatantly
unbiblical practices.
And so therefore, of course, if that's your final, you're probably going to end up in
one of these screwed up either Roman Catholic or Protestant Catholic type churches.
And so at the end of the day, people have to believe the word of God, you know, and
I'm going to show up, I'm going to preach the word of God.
If people want to argue with me, I'm going to smile and tell them to have a nice day
and I'm going to walk away because honestly it's unprofitable in vain to argue with someone.
They're going to have to come to the place where God's word means something to them.
And that's why I don't start with the argument.
I start with the gospel because the gospel has power and hopefully in the process of
preaching the gospel for that 10 minutes or 12 minutes or whatever, hopefully the power
of the gospel is going to work on their heart in that time and get them to a place where
they're ready to believe what the Bible says rather than what a history book is telling
them.
And if it doesn't work, if the gospel preaching doesn't work, my logical argument is probably
not going to work either.
But if I were to make a logical argument, it would be the exact argument that Pastor
Shelley just made.
What do you think about that, Brandon?
Do you have any follow-up thoughts or?
No, I quite like that.
The issue usually comes up with family member and friends, stuff like that, that you talk
to and you preach the gospel to, especially since you're sympathetic to your own family
and friends.
It's just the issue of that coming up as a later response, especially if it's something
that they've grown up with.
Just trying to kind of haggle with that has seemed to be an issue.
But aside from that, I don't want to take up too much of you guys' time, but I do want
to thank you guys for the preaching and the work that you guys have done.
I've been following you guys for years.
I got saved through Pastor Stephen Anderson's One Safe, Always Safe sermon, which I then
used to get my dad saved before he passed away two years ago.
So I can't thank you guys enough.
Keep up the hard work, and I hope God blesses you guys.
Thanks so much for calling in, Brandon.
And that sermon saved a lot of people, I think.
So it's definitely a common thing that I've heard, that sermon, along with a lot of our
gospel presentations.
No, man, it just confuses people, you know, when you start talking about eternal security
as a believer.
Right.
Yeah, I mean, Ben, do you find that sometimes, though, like, obviously we want to start
with the gospel, but don't you see, like, some of the people in your personal life still
want to haggle and bring up these other doctrines like church history or their worldview?
And you kind of get caught in a lot of these conversations that maybe don't really go
anywhere.
I mean, what do you think?
Yeah, for sure.
I mean, especially when I was a newer soul winner, I would just take the bait every time
and 10 minutes into the conversation were so off topic from the gospel that I kind of
wondered how the hell did I get here?
Yeah, I was supposed to be trying to get you saved.
And I'm debating, you know, church history or whatever topic they're bringing up.
So it could be detrimental if you if you kind of just let them take you in that direction
when you're trying to stick to the gospel of Jesus Christ.
Well, I mean, if I'm trying to get someone saved, I usually again, my strategy sometimes
is just try to give them a simple answer and say like, but I want to focus on this, let's
get back on like, like say, well, I think that there is some, you know, holes in the
church history, like they could be wrong for a long time, but I want to talk about this.
But again, sometimes, you know, they just don't want to talk about the gospel and you're
forced to hang out with them.
So you just chat it up or whatever.
We have a lot more callers.
We have a lot of people calling in two, three, one, Baptist, and we're going to try and
get to as many callers as we can.
We have Ken who's calling in on the line.
Let's see if we can bring Ken on for his question.
Ken, can you hear us?
Yeah.
Hey, how's it going?
Good.
Where are you from?
I'm from Alaska, but I live in Dallas.
Okay, cool.
That's Ken.
And so what's your question for us this evening?
Hey, so I'm wondering as a Christian husband, how am I supposed to handle my in-laws and
my parents that are unsafe?
Like what is honoring them look like?
What am I supposed to be doing there, you know, especially if they're bringing in negative
influences and things that I don't want my family around, like how am I supposed to handle
that?
Well, why don't you give us, can you be a little more specific because I think it'd
be profitable if we could, you know, maybe address like a situation.
The best example I can think of is my mom is a sodomite sympathizer and so she tends
to bring around sodomite relatives, you know, when we come to visit because, you know, she
wants everybody to get together, you know, and that's not stuff I want to be around.
And, you know, I don't want them influencing my kids or, you know, especially like alcohol
and, and, and that kind of stuff.
Those are kind of like the biggest things, but also just the railing and the gossip.
It's pretty extreme.
I'll let you go for that Pastor Anderson start off.
Well, obviously it's definitely possible to obey unsaved parents.
If you're a child or a teenager living at home, because even unsafe people will often
have wisdom about certain things, good attributes, and we should just try to focus on the good
in the authorities that God has placed over us in our lives and, and try to both obey
God and those authorities and not just say, Oh, well, they're unsaved, so they're just
idiots and I can't learn anything from them and I don't need to obey them.
We're, you know, that's a wrong attitude.
Okay.
God isn't just telling us to obey and honor our parents.
If they're saved, if they're righteous, if they're godly, you know, we're supposed to
in general obey and honor our parents.
Now obviously we have to obey God over man.
And so if there's a conflict between an earthly authority and our father in heaven, we're
always going to go with our father in heaven, but 99% of the time you can bring those into
alignment.
Now when it comes to being someone who's already moved out, you've left father and mother,
you've cleaved under your wife.
So now we're talking about you're an adult, but you still have a relationship with your
parents.
You have a relationship with your wife's parents, your in-laws, you know, how do you deal with
them?
You know, again, we should strive as much as we can to live peaceably with all men, try
to get along with them, try to be respectful.
But frankly, sometimes you have to show those people in your life, your parents or your
in-laws, you have to show them boundaries and, and let them know that there are certain
things that are just over the line that you're not going to put up with.
And you know, for me, if I were invited to a family gathering and some sodomite relative
is going to be there and I'm expected to just act like that's normal and just sit at the
dinner table with him and just treat him a certain way, you know, I would just simply
refuse to do that.
And I would just say, well, you're going to have to pick whether you want me there or
whether you want the faggot, you know, that's, that's your choice, but you know, I'm not
going to bring my kids around that pervert.
And guess what?
Most of us have actually dealt with this.
This is not a hypothetical because most of us in our extended family somewhere have sodomite
relatives and there are going to be those relatives that are pissed off that you're
wanting to ostracize that sodomite family member.
What I've observed is that when you ostracize the sodomite and some of your family gets
mad at you and maybe they don't want anything to do with you for a while because you're
not getting along with him or her.
You know what, usually over time the other people in your family will realize what a
piece of trash they are and then like five years later, ten years later, they don't
have a relationship with that person either and now they're friends with you again.
And so sometimes you just have to be patient, but certain things are a deal breaker and
bringing my kids around sodomite is a deal breaker.
Obviously there are other people though that get upset about something petty or something
that's not that big of a deal, you know, we're not responsible for our parents' morality.
So we don't, it's not like we're raising them or something.
So we can't expect our parents or our in-laws to have the same biblical standards that we
have and impose that on them.
As long as they're not just in your face doing something super offensive, I think he's just
let it go and try to just be cool and get along.
But if it comes to them taking your kids aside and trying to like indoctrinate them in something
that you're really strongly against or forcing you to be around the worst scum of the earth,
literal pedophiles, well then, you know, you got to draw a line in the sand.
And I know this isn't quite what you asked, but while we're on the subject, let me just
say this.
You know, sometimes in-laws can meddle in your marriage and in your parenting and they
can just kind of get out of control where they just become really controlling and megalomaniacal.
And I think sometimes when that happens, you have to kind of just maybe put some space
between you and those people and just kind of let them know, look, I want you in my life,
but you're not going to run my life.
And you know, if you're not going to be cool and respect my authority in my home, then
we're not going to have a relationship until you figure out who's the boss in my home.
Figure the boss in your home.
Let's have a relationship.
I want to respect you.
I want to love you.
I want to spend time with you, but you know what?
You're not going to run my life.
And another thing is you should never let your in-laws criticize, you know, or let me
say this.
You shouldn't be in a situation where your parents are criticizing your spouse to you.
You know, if my parents were criticizing my wife, you know, I would not put up with that.
And I would say, "Hey, we can have a relationship again when you're done criticizing my spouse."
Because there are too many women out there where their parents are talking crap about,
you know, their husband to them, telling their daughter, "Hey, you can always move back with
us," and, you know, "Your husband's such a jerk," and whatever.
You know, you have to cut people like that out of your life until they get their act
together.
And the other way around too, you know, taking a son aside and telling him, "Oh, your wife
is this.
She's that.
She's the other."
You need to stick up for your spouse and, you know, hopefully your parents are cool.
Hopefully your in-laws are cool, but if they're not, sometimes you have to kind of show them
a boundary.
Yeah.
That was some great advice.
You know, one verse to think about, the Bible literally says, "Therefore shall a man leave
his father and his mother and shall cleave unto his wife and they shall be one flesh."
So there's going to be some separation that's biblical and, you know, the authority structure
has changed.
The Bible makes it clear in the Old Testament that a wife is no longer under her father's
authority but under the authority of her husband now.
And so there has been a change of chain of command.
I think when it comes to some of these practical scenarios, you know, for me, I found it beneficial
for me and my wife to just kind of discuss all of the different scenarios that were kind
of deal breakers for us.
And then we just told everybody that.
And then it was like we don't have to keep having conversations because I think sometimes
it's a little frustrating if, you know, you're constantly having to bring up all of these
different rules or situations you guys have.
So you kind of figure out whatever is the deal breakers and just say, you know, for
me specifically, we had made a rule like if some if people are just drinking alcohol,
we're just not going to hang out.
So and we just told everybody that we said, hey, look, if we show up and people are drinking
alcohol or there's alcohol being served, like our family is just going to leave that family
event like we just aren't going to be putting our kids around that.
And you know, specifically, if maybe there was a sodomite family member or family member
that's worthy of church discipline type serious issues, then you know, we just tell everybody
like, hey, if this person is in our presence, like we're going to not show up or we're
going to leave, you know, and you know, might as well tell us we don't drive over there
or something like that. But at the end of the day, I think as long as you kind of say
like, hey, here's our boundaries, here's the verses we're using to prove them. Like
Pastor Anderson said, over time, that consistency and the fact that you're pointing to the
Bible and the fact that these people are going to have serious issues is typically going
to win them over a lot of times. And if it never does, then you know, that's unfortunate.
But I always kind of say this about family, like my strategy is for them to leave me not
necessarily for me to leave them. In the sense I would say, "Hey, I want to hang out with
y'all. I want to have a relationship with you, but these are just some boundaries.
These are some issues and you know, I can't necessarily be in this environment or we're
trying to separate ourselves from this behavior or this situation. I'm not trying to separate
from you, but we just want to separate from these scenarios or maybe this person specifically."
And I think again, those hard conversations are not fun, but over time, a lot of times
things can get better. You know, have you kind of experienced this as well, Ben?
Yeah, in terms of just some like family conflict and things like that.
You kind of have to set boundaries or what?
Setting boundaries, yeah. I've had that issue in my life and I think that if your family
isn't going to be just super hardcore fundamental Baptist, here's a good second place if you
want to call it that, is at the very least that they respect your position.
The world respects the position of Islamists out there, well let's not offend them, let's
not draw Muhammad.
The same thing should be the case for fundamental Baptists in the sense that they might not
agree but at the very least let's have it so they respect what we believe and don't
cross those boundaries.
Sometimes they don't get it and it's funny because they feel a little offended too because
they know they're kind of guilty.
I have had some family members they admitted they were like, "It's not like y'all are
bad people.
You just don't want to be around drinking alcohol."
I was like, "Right.
That doesn't make us like horrible people or something that we don't want to necessarily
be around drunkenness or something like that."
But again, obviously, the balance of being respectful, again, that's why I say, "Hey,
if this happens, we're just going to leave quietly."
You're not necessarily making a big deal about it or getting on the top of the pulpit like
Pastor Anderson is screaming at them or something like, "You wicked sinner."
But obviously, just saying, "Hey, if this is happening, we're going to withdraw.
We love you guys, but this is just a boundary for us."
And, of course, entreat them as a father and treat them as an elder and giving them respect
the way you communicate to them, but you don't have to obey everything they say.
Even little children, if their parents are telling them to sin or do something against
the Lord, you ought to obey God rather than man.
But obviously we want to make sure that we have a biblical basis for everything we do.
But again, if I have an unsaved parent and they tell me to do something and I have no
biblical authority to reject their instruction, then I think we should just do it.
So again, I think that's kind of where the discretion comes in.
Did that help you Ken?
Yeah, no.
I mean, you guys really, really thoroughly covered the topic and we have a lot of decisions
to make in regards to cutting ties with different relatives and just saying, "Hey, you know,
we don't want to be around that stuff.
You know, it's not what we're about, it's not what we do and we don't want to be around
faggots."
Amen.
So, you know.
Hey, I appreciate you guys taking the time.
That's why we're on Rumble.
Trying to get away from faggots, so.
I was hoping I could squeeze in a neck bomb in there, you know.
Yes.
All right.
Well, God bless you, Ken.
Thanks for calling in.
We got over 350 people in the live stream, Ben.
We got a lot of people hopping in the chat, great, keep bringing up the questions.
We've got several callers on the line, and we're going to try and get to all of you this
evening.
So if you want to call in 231 Baptist, I also want to promote Thursday.
This Thursday, we have a special show.
I want to show a banner here.
It's a debate.
It's a 2v2.
It's going to be Pastor Roger Jimenez from Verity Baptist Church and me teamed up, and
we're going to be debating Byron Stinson and Adam King on "Is the Red Heifer Biblical?"
Now, typically our shows are on 8pm.
This one's going to be 9pm Central Time.
I think a lot of the people on the show are in California, and so they are two hours behind
us.
10 Eastern.
So, 10 Eastern.
Is that?
Yep.
10 Eastern, 9 Central, and then I believe it's 7 Pacific.
So this is going to be an epic show.
We also want you to try and tune in live.
We'll be taking some, I don't know if we'll take call-ins necessarily, we'll definitely
take some questions, probably towards the end we may take some callers, but it's going
to be a lively discussion.
These two guys take the position that they're going to bring in the next Messiah and bring
in the Antichrist essentially, and they're open about that, and of course, me and Pastor
Menes don't want to help or support the Antichrist whatsoever, so I'm really anticipating this
to be a hot conversation. What do you think, Ben?
Well, I think it'll also be a substantive one, and we'll see how they react to actually
debating pastors, which will be the first time I believe that they've done so.
Yeah, they've debated a couple Catholics, so Nick Fuentes, who's a pretty popular Catholic
voice out there, has debated them. I know that Stu Peters recently had a debate with
them on his show, like a couple of them, and so they're kind of making the circuit here,
but I think that they're going to be in a different spot talking with Pastor Jimenez,
and so I'm pretty excited for that show. I definitely want to share it and put it out
there for us. I think it's going to be one that could maybe hopefully win some Zionists
over because I don't think they understand what Jews really believe on this subject.
So I think just the really groundbreaking documentary for this is Margin to Zion. So
many people change their mind just because Pastor Anderson was allowed to go behind enemy
lines and just allow the Jews to open their mouth. What's so incredible is how you just
sit there patiently while they're just saying like the weirdest and most blasphemous stuff.
Like what was going through your mind when you're interviewing those rabbis?
I'll tell you exactly what was going through my mind. Whenever they were saying just the
wildest, most blasphemous, wicked things in my mind, I was just thinking this movie is
going to be so awesome. Like, Oh man, I was just like, just keep talking because this is so good.
I was just thinking this is such gold. I was just so happy to be getting the footage of these wild
statements. You know, I don't, I mean, I don't care because at the end of the day, you know,
no matter what some Jewish rabbi says, you know, Christ is still sitting at the right hand of the
father. And I'm still saying I'm going to, it doesn't affect me. You know, we all know that
this is what Jews believe, but at least now we can expose it to the rest of the world.
Well, he's like those spies that went into Jericho. He's like the spies went into Jericho or,
you know, he makes me think of Jihoo. He's like Ahab served Bill Little,
Jihoo will serve him much. Like he's doing the dirty work. I know you didn't lie. I'm not saying
you lied to them. Yeah. But not only, not only did we not lie to them, we did not mislead them in
any way because I've been accused of misleading them. But, you know, I've publicly shown the email
that I sent them. And in the email, I listed the exact questions that I was going to ask them.
They asked me, are you Christian? I said, yes. They asked me what the documentary was about.
I told them what it was about. I didn't say that it was going to be negative, but I didn't say it
was going to be positive either. And I was very accurate in the email of what I said the film was
going to be about. And when I did the interviews, I literally only asked them the questions that
were on the list unless they brought up something. And there were no questions about Jesus, but all
four of those rabbis, they brought up Jesus. Like, and then once they started talking about Jesus,
then I, you know, I continued that conversation, but I didn't show up and ask them different
questions than, than what I had originally sent them. You know, I was very forthcoming with them.
These are the 10 questions I'm going to ask you or whatever. Those are the questions I asked them.
They can't stop talking about it. You know, it's on their mind. It's in their heart.
And out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speak it. And, and so, you know, they felt stupid
afterward because they didn't like the product. They felt stupid afterward because they didn't
like the finished product. But then, you know, so then they tried to be like, oh, he lied to us.
Yeah. But it's like, well, no, you just didn't Google me. It's funny. It's not my fault.
It's like he, it's like he pulled a Jeremiah when the Jews are asking him like what King Zedekiah
said. And he's like, he told him, he just didn't tell him everything that the king had said because
they didn't ask. So they didn't perceive the matter. But no, I don't even care at all. But
honestly, I don't, I don't think you're being dishonest. We kind of did something somewhat
similar for the preserved Bible, if you remember, because we tried to look for an opponent to
articulate the critical text position. And I remember emailing James Allman for that.
And it's not like I emailed him like, Hey, I'm putting together a film about how you
should use the King James Bible only. I just kind of talked about we're doing a film on
the doctrine of preservation and, and here are the questions. So I can understand being
in that.
Yeah, but he was really nice, honestly, like I liked, I liked him and I liked the interview,
even though he was wrong. And he has some issues there.
So there was one kind of funny moment that I'd like to share though, like, so one of
the rabbis, Rabbi Rubin Mann, he was the one that's like, you know, so we, so we killed
the guy. So what, you know, maybe he deserved it. I don't know. You know, that guy, well,
when I was interviewing him, like his wife kind of acted suspicious about us when Paul
and I were in his office and she's like, what's the name of this company again? Cause she's
like, I'm going to Google it right now. I was thinking like, if she Googles this, we're
not going to get this interview. And we had emailed like 45 rabbis or something, 40 some
rabbis and only four of them had agreed to do the interview. So we didn't want to lose
the interview and especially because that was our Orthodox rabbi. Cause we, you know,
we got them from like four different denominations of Judaism. And so we really wanted to have
our Orthodox guy. So when she said like, Oh, I'm going to Google this right now. What's
the name of the company? I said, well, it's called framing the world. But I said, let
me tell you about Paul's other films, you know, his, his most viewed film, it's about
the environment. And then I just started like hitting her with all this really technical
data from the film. What in the world are they spraying? Cause I had like just watched
it again, like a few weeks earlier. So it was all fresh in my mind. And I'm talking
about how like the pH and these streams, you know, is, is, is getting too neutral and that
might sound like a good thing, but you know, and I'm just going through all this stuff
and I'm just like hitting her with all of these like chemical names and talking about
the particulate aluminum. And she just like started glazing over and just getting super
bored as I just started going on and on about the environment, like our air, our water,
our food. And then she just like forgot to Google it because I would just like was just
bombarding her with all this like boring, boring environmental science.
That's funny. That is awesome. All right. Well, we got a lot of callers. We got like
nine callers. We could just talk all that. I know it's funny. Let's see if we can pull
up our neck color. Angel, I think is who we've got on the line. From Canada. Yeah, that's
how you use it. Hello. Hey, Angel, how's it going? Good, how are you? Doing great. What
was your question for us this evening? I'm just wondering, is there a good Chinese Bible
source? Because my mom is not fluent in English. We showed her some, like, Pastor Anderson's
documentary that has Chinese subtitles, and she really enjoyed them. Recently, she's
been, like, looking for some preachings that got translated into Chinese. For example,
Danny Martinoid Jones. But then she realized there's some problem with this preacher,
so she stopped. And now she's, like, kind of just wandering around. So this is why I'm
asking.
I think I'd have to defer to someone else. If you email me, I might be able to give you
a source. I don't know if you have one off the top of your head, Pastor Anderson.
I'm sorry, but I don't know of any Chinese preaching or anything out there.
There is a Chinese person that goes to my church, and I think they have a Bible, and
I think that there's also another friend that we have that might have that. So if you
email us, email us at steadfastbaptistkjv@gmail.com and just ask that same question. We can try
to track down what information we may have, and we could probably send that over.
And Angel, what part of Canada are you from, Angel?
I'm from Ontario, Toronto.
Oh, okay. Well, and I know that there are some Chinese brethren in that Toronto area
because they sometimes come down to all kinds of stuff.
Is that brother Tim?
Yeah.
Maybe.
I love Tim's last name because his last name, and forgive me if I get the tone wrong, but
it's, I think his last name is Xing, and it's funny because Xing literally means last name.
So I'm like, dude, your last name, last name.
Kind of meta because Xing means last name.
I believe there's a Chinese New Testament that the Trinitarian Bible Society has produced.
You'd have to fact check that, just Google Trinitarian Bible Society Chinese and see
if they're either currently producing it or they're, like, it's either under a production
that hasn't been released yet or it's already been released, I'm not entirely sure.
They're usually a pretty good source as far as Bible.
I love TBS personally, and they use the Received Text to translate, so I believe they have
a web page.
Yeah, you can go to tbsbibles.org, which is the Trinitarian Bible Society, and they have
some information about Chinese on there, so I think they even have a Chinese New Testament
information.
Chinese online Bible, too, I think.
I'm looking at the website right now, and it looks like they sell a Chinese New Testament,
they sell a Chinese Gospel of John, and they are a great source, and they're always kind
of the go-to if I don't know much about the language.
I don't speak Chinese, and so my go-to for languages that I don't speak is Trinitarian
Bible Society.
I've met some of the guys from the Trinitarian Bible Society in real life and talked to them
at different conferences and things, and their position is good as far as the King James
Bible and the Textus Receptus, and I think they're a great organization.
Yeah, they do have a Chinese New Testament for $8.
There you go.
They even have a Chinese Gospel for just $1.20, and it looks like you could get that shipped
to Canada as well, so that's a great recommendation.
Thanks so much for your question, Angel.
Thank you.
I'll definitely check out the Trinitary and Bible Society.
Yep.
God bless you.
Let's go ahead and go to another caller.
We have Nathan from, it looks like West Virginia.
Nathan, can you hear us?
Yeah.
Can you hear me?
Yeah.
How's it going?
Good.
How are you?
So where are you from exactly?
Oh, I'm from a jumping branch, West Virginia.
Okay.
Cool.
Which question?
I'm just wondering, Revelation chapter 17, what I'm not understanding is, is Revelation
17, when it talks about the great whore of Babylon, is that concerning like the Catholic
church and every other false religion, or is that talking about the United States?
Great question.
Yeah.
Great question.
I've been preaching through the book of Revelation.
I recently preached on Revelation chapter 17.
I think, you know, for sure that Mystery Babylon is not necessarily just identified as just
one thing.
It kind of shows it has like a history and has a lineage.
And for sure within the Mystery Babylon section is Rome.
Rome is kind of one of the last sections, and of course Rome has been heavily influenced
by the Catholic Church.
So I think to say that there is no tie between Mystery Babylon and the Catholic Church would
be an error.
But I also think that if you kind of look at a more modern day application of who exactly
the Babylon that's being described in Revelation chapter 17, 18, 19 that's going to be destroyed.
That is going to be most likely if it happened in our lifetime, the United States just because
of us being the world dominant power and Mystery Babylon is usually a worldwide power and you
know that application makes a lot of sense to me.
I would say that though from a historical perspective of course Rome has its you know
piece of that puzzle and that the Roman Catholic Church definitely emulates a lot of these
behaviors certainly a lot of historians and church quote fathers or whatever believed
in the Pope's as being antichrist and part of this Babylonian system and of course there's
probably some sense of truth there but again I think the end times city that's going to
be destroyed is probably not Rome itself or the Vatican it's more likely going to be some
other location but I let Pastor Anderson kind of give his thoughts on that as well.
Yeah I think one of the biggest mistakes that you can make when interpreting the Bible especially
with Bible prophecy is thinking that only one interpretation is correct when the Bible
is very deep and there are layers and layers of meaning and it's going to have different
applications at different points in history and so is it the Roman Empire?
Yes.
The first century AD Roman Empire?
The Caesars?
Yes.
Is it the Roman Catholic Church?
Yes.
Is it the United States?
Yes.
Because these are just different ways of interpreting it that are all legitimate.
Now obviously these things are ultimately going to actually happen in real life and
then we ask ourselves, okay, what place is literally physically being destroyed?
But when it comes to preaching the spiritual truths from Revelation 17, you know, you could
apply this to different places at different points in history because it's just a Babylon
spirit.
It's, it's and, and of course, you know, in our film Babylon USA, obviously we go into
this in great detail.
I've done a lot of sermons.
If you just go on the preaching.com, that'll take you to our church of sermon page and
just search like find on page control F command F and just look for the word Babylon.
And I've done a bunch of sermons on this sermons on Revelation 17.
It's a complicated subject.
And at the end of the day, when the old IFB is constantly preaching that this is the
Roman Catholic Church, you know, I would say amen to that.
And obviously in Babylon, USA, we show all the reasons why America appears to be the
end times Babylon, if Christ comes, you know, in the near future, you know, within the next
50 years or whatever, who knows.
But yeah.
Does that kind of answer your question?
Yeah.
How does do you like that answer, Nate?
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
I did have one more tiny question if you don't mind.
I was wondering, this one's for Pastor Anderson, I was wondering if I could have a Catholic
prayer read.
Get this bozo off of me.
Yeah.
All right.
That's how you get dropped off the line.
All right.
God bless you.
Thanks so much for calling in.
And I think we have another caller that's got a similar question so we can bring him
on.
Tony from California I think was also wanting to ask something in this same vein.
Tony, can you hear us?
Hey, Tony, how's it going?
Can you hear us?
Tony, I just went to you.
I just went to you.
Don't do this to us.
Yeah, I can hear you good.
All right.
There he is.
All right.
We got you loud and clear.
Where are you from?
Sorry about that.
I'm from California.
I've met you guys at Verdi Baptist Church at the Red Hop Reaching Conference.
Great.
It's not like we're best friends or anything, but we've met.
Why not?
What?
Just kidding.
I thought with this whole time, I thought we were.
Go ahead.
Yeah, so my question is, so I mistakenly had a sister relay a message to Pastor Anderson
for me before on the destruction of Babylon, but I didn't form a question.
And Pastor Anderson called that out pretty quick, and he's like, you know, he didn't
even ask a question.
He's kind of just rambling on something to that effect.
But here's the question.
Is it possible that in Revelation 14 and in Revelation 18 that it is chronologically
correct and that Babylon has fallen at this point prior to the rapture, just God's wrath
hasn't been poured out on Babylon yet?
What are your thoughts?
I mean, I would just say, no, I remember reading that message and I did read everything that
you had to say and looked up the scriptures and thought about it.
And I personally don't buy it.
I think that the mention in Revelation 14 is a little bit puzzling.
Obviously, the Bible is filled with things that are puzzling.
But I think it's crystal clear that after the seven vials of God's wrath are poured
out, that's when Babylon comes in remembrance before God to give unto her the cup of the
wine of the fierceness of his wrath.
And I do think that the destruction of Babylon and the fall of Babylon are synonymous.
I think that chapter 14 is just simply foreshadowing a lot of things that are going to happen.
And the other thing I would point to in chapter 14 is the treading of the winepress of the
wrath of God, which I believe that that treading of the winepress is sort of just picturing
the entire period of God pouring out his wrath, which takes years to do.
And yet it's all being foreshadowed there in chapter 14.
So God is just making a pronouncement like Babylon is done, even though he hasn't physically
done that yet.
That's what I think.
I, you know, I could see where you were coming from.
I read what you had to say, but you know, personally, I don't buy it.
Yeah, I'm not sure exactly what the conversation was that y'all had or his viewpoint, but I
have recently preached through 14.
I'm on Revelation 21 now, but when I talked about Revelation chapter 14, I kind of parlayed
with chapter 18, where it says in verse number two, and he cried mightily with a strong voice
saying Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils and
the hold of every foul spirit in the cage of every unclean and hateful bird.
Of course, I think it's valid to interpret this statement of is fallen is in the sense
of like, maybe impending doom, or just the prophetic aspect of what God's saying.
But I think another possible interpretation, and this is one that I suggested in my sermons
was the idea of Babylon being fallen in a political sense, or in the sense of its infrastructure,
or it's been taken over, because it's kind of being mentioned here as it's like almost
like a demonic force has basically entrenched itself and taken over the country.
And sometimes people say like America is fallen, even though we're still here intact, but they're
just because we have Joe Biden as our president or because things are on the decline or it's
kind of the essence of something about to be destroyed because of the fact that it's
been taken over.
And sometimes they'll talk about like Rome has fallen or some empire has fallen, even
though it's technically not over yet, it's in the sense that it's been taken over politically
or maybe it's kind of done for.
And I use this analogy of just the idea of like, if you're driving a car and you drive
off of a cliff, well, there's this period of time before you go from the top of the
cliff to the bottom and you're in this falling state.
And so like, in a sense, perhaps Babylon's in this "fallen state" of, yeah, it's been
taken over, it's on its path of destruction, nothing's going to stop it whatsoever.
And so you could even say, technically, that it's accurate, that it is fallen.
I think that that is a possible interpretation, again, I don't know what you provided there.
Here's why, the reason why I don't buy that though is just because, like, if you go back
to Jeremiah 51, which is what Revelation is referencing, I'll just read verse 8, it says,
"Babylon is suddenly fallen and destroyed."
So it's like, the fall and the destruction are kind of in the same breath, Babylon is
suddenly fallen and destroyed, or like in Isaiah 21, Babylon is fallen and all the graven
images of her gods he hath broken under the ground.
I feel like the fall of Babylon is synonymous with the physical destruction that's taking
place in chapter 18.
And obviously the verse in chapter 14 is a problem for my view in a sense, but the
reason that it doesn't keep me up at night is simply just because of the fact that a
lot of times the scripture is just foreshadowing and because later in chapter 14 there's for
sure foreshadowing when the cluster of the vine of the earth is cast into that great
wine press of the wrath of God and all the blood comes out.
I don't think that's talking about a specific event, but rather it's just foreshadowing
what's coming, God's wrath in general, the fall of Babylon's coming.
I just think those things are being announced in advance.
I mean, either way, it doesn't really matter entirely, but yeah.
Well, thanks for calling in.
Do you mind if I just a little follow-up on that?
Sure, go ahead.
I know there's a lot of people waiting, just a little follow-up.
So in Revelation 18, it says, well, in Revelation 17, it talks about the abomination of desolation,
just like it talks about it in Revelation 13.
And then we have Babylon has fallen, it's fallen.
And then the next thing that should be on the timeline is the rapture.
I think we'd all agree if it was on a timeline.
And I noticed in Revelation 18, after it mentions Babylon falling again, in verse 4, and this
is the part that's really sticking with me.
And it's because of Pastor Anderson's Revelation series, you know, that really enforces it
because in Jeremiah 50, verse 9, it says, "their arrow shall be as of mighty expert
men; none shall return in vain."
So I think that this is what's happening with the destruction of Babylon, the fall of Babylon.
But in Revelation 18-4, it says, "and I heard another voice from heaven saying, Come out
of my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and ye receive not of her plagues."
So this, to me, seems like another rapture passage.
People are being raptured out of Babylon, so they're not partakers of the plagues.
It's mentioning all of them, and it says, "for her sins have reached on the heaven,
and God hath remembered her iniquities."
So it's like in Revelation 18 where Babylon comes back in a remembrance, I'm sorry, Revelation
16, where Babylon comes back in a remembrance of God at the seventh vial.
So that was just, that was my thought, and I was just kind of curious in its totality
what you thought.
Yeah, again, not buying it, and I'll tell you why, because this is one of those things
where if you just look at this one particular issue, you're just looking at these couple
of verses and saying like, Hey, this can work.
This is great.
But the problem is when you try to plug this in to the greater scheme, it's going to be
super confusing.
You're going to be jumping all over the place.
You got too many raptures happening at too, too many times, two different place.
You know, you know, I've worked out a coherent timeline of how these things work.
And you know, another similar thing that people would bring up is the last Trump in first
Corinthians 15.
You know, obviously at face value, we want the last Trump to be the seventh trumpet because
that would be super clean, super convenient.
And I think that that would make the most sense.
But then if you try to actually plug in the rapture at the seventh trumpet in the book
of Revelation, it simply doesn't fit because it causes a whole bunch of problems in a whole
bunch of other places.
So you have to have a holistic view of these things and have a fully developed scheme here
for understanding this.
And if you're putting the rapture in chapter 18, it's just not going to work because there's
a clear chronology taking you from 16 into 17 into 18, and it's clearly happening in
order and the rapture just simply doesn't take place after God pours out his wrath.
And so that's one of the reasons why I'm not buying it.
Yeah, I totally agree with Pastor Anderson's timeline.
And he made a chart that's like a Daniel 70th week chart that I think is really helpful
for kind of looking.
I also made a chart.
You can find it on purewordsbaptist.com.
If you go to the End Times tab, it has a chart and this is actually, my chart's a little
different than his just in the sense that this is just a chronology.
It's a sequence of events.
So you can't really judge like the time, like the amount of time based on it.
Pastor Anderson's is great because you can even kind of see maybe more of a semblance
of the actual time.
But mine's more of a sequence of events.
Mine's like to scale chronologically.
Right.
Yours is a lot more scaled but because there's so many events towards the end and I kind
of wanted to still illustrate them really clearly, mine's kind of more just in the sequence.
But you can tell clearly that the rapture is in Revelation chapter number 14.
And so if you look at the chart in the second coming of Christ, which is the seal six, you
can see that it's in chapter six and then you can see that it's also in 14 down kind
of towards the bottom of that chart.
And then you have all these other events, Revelation chapter 15, they're in heaven.
You can see them, you know, kind of that great multitude that's in heaven.
Then you go through all the seven trumpets and the vile judgments.
And then after that is when you have this judgment of Babylon, which is really basically
one of the last events you kind of have based on my chart.
And again, I believe this is what the Bible is clearly laying out is you have the destruction
of Babylon, then you have the battle of Armageddon, and then we're ushered straight into the millennial
reign of Christ.
And these things are happening a very short space.
The judgment of Babylon is about an hour.
And you essentially just have, pretty much on the same day, you have in my mind kind
of like that ending of Babylon, battle of Armageddon, and then you're kind of ushering
into Christ is returning with all of us onto this earth.
To say that that's the rapture would really disagree with the post-trib, pre-wrath rapture
because you would have to go through the wrath and you would have kind of like a strange
view in Revelation chapter 14 and Revelation chapter number 6.
So even if you do believe, like I do believe that it's possible to interpret Revelation
14 as Babylon has fallen in that timeline and say that Revelation 14 has fallen in the
sense that yeah, it's like Joe Biden's our president and we have basically our entire
government's been co-opted and America's just basically doomed and destroyed and it's
the habitation of every unclean bird and like that is a possible interpretation that I believe
in and that still wouldn't change the timeline of the rapture or the destruction of Babylon
whatsoever and it is certain that Babylon will be destroyed in a short space like in
a one-hour time period when God does finally judge it through the Ten Kings.
Do you have an opinion on this Ben?
I almost wonder it was the caller trying to say that the scripture in Revelation 18 where
it says come out of her my people is the rapture is a call back to the rapture in Revelation
14 was at his point or did I misunderstand completely is that what you are you still
there.
Oh, he's gone.
Okay.
Well, I just I was confused.
I think again, when I taught on that was essentially that that's just the people that
got saved after the rapture.
And they're they need to leave Babylon because this is what I said it as soon as Babylon
is destroyed, like virtually the same day or the next day in my view, is going to be
the millennial reign of Christ.
Well, if you physically nuked off of the planet, you're not going to go into the millennial
reign of Christ.
So it makes sense that whoever may have gotten saved during that period of time to say like,
hey, you need to leave here because it's about to be nuked.
And if you want to enter into the millennial reign, you know, physically, then you basically
can't live here because it's going to be destroyed, kind of like Noah got on the ark or lot was
pulled out of Sodom.
You know, you can't necessarily stay in these places because they're going to be destroyed
physically and so he's just kind of giving that one last warning or a Christian that
was in Jerusalem in 70 AD.
It's kind of like a hint, hint, you know, wink, wink, get out of here.
But why would, why would God have to tell you, Hey, get out of here or he's going to
rapture you?
Like, what does that matter?
Like, I'm going to do anything like, let's say I do get raptured.
I'm not having to do anything physically.
I'm going to just be caught up in the air.
Like it doesn't matter what I'm doing.
Like, I don't have to prepare for the rapture or something like I'm not having.
You have to shave your head and you have to drink a certain flavor of Kool-Aid.
Yeah.
Well, that's Jim Jones' rapture, I think.
No, I thought that that was good.
I want to get someone on the line real quick because he's calling internationally.
We got somebody from the land down under we want to try and get on the line.
It's Andrew, I believe, from Australia.
Let's see if we can get him on the line from the land of Oz.
Hey, Andrew.
How's it going?
Good.
How are you going?
Great.
You mean okay?
I've been listening to past Stephen Hansen since 2014, and I thought I'd call up and
say hi.
And thanks for everything.
But I won't tell you my testimony, sorry, because it has something to do with Ken Hogan,
so I don't want to...
Do you want to talk about the moon or what?
No, no.
I was actually just going to ask your guys' thoughts on the whole red hat thing, and then
I realized you've got a debate coming up.
So I just wanted to hear past Stephen Hansen's view on it, because I don't understand what's
going on.
I'm just talking about rebuilding the temple on Alex Mosque.
Yeah, I just wanted to hear you guys' views on that.
Thoughts on the red heifer.
All right, Pastor Hansen, here's your chance.
I think that the red heifer is like biggest nothing burger ever, because it has no in-time
significance at all, and I don't want to steal the thunder of Thursday, and honestly, I didn't
even know anything about the red heifer until I heard about this live stream with Pastor
Jimenez, and I asked Pastor Jimenez, like, so what is the red heifer?
I'm like, what are you even, what is that?
I don't even know what verse that is, because it's like one obscure verse from the Book
of Numbers that mentions it, and so I looked it up and read the chapter, and I'm just like,
what the?
I mean, you know, so I don't have any thoughts, hey, what do I think about the Red Heifer?
I don't.
Well, I felt stupid because I'm like, I don't know what to say, but I don't know what the
big deal is.
Me too.
I thought I was the only one.
None of us can figure out what the big deal is, but I'm sure these rabbis or Judaizers
are going to bring up all kinds of dumb stuff, and I'm sure it's going to be fun to watch
Pastor Jimenez and Pastor Shelley deal with them, but.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
If you're wondering what it's about, you're not alone, because I'm wondering too.
I honestly thought I was.
I was like, there's this controversy, and I have absolutely no idea it even existed.
Well, I think, again, most of the controversy is about sacrifices rather than just the Red
Heifer specifically.
Oh, yeah.
Okay.
That's why I think it's going to be an issue.
Go ahead, Pastor Anderson.
Oh, sorry.
There's like a delay, so I'm not trying to cut people off.
It's just like a delay thing.
I was just going to say, I think it's going to be an interesting show just because it's
just going to be a lot of end time stuff.
It's going to be Judaism versus Christianity, Judaizers, and these different things.
I'm not saying that it's not going to be an interesting show.
I'm just saying that this red Heifer thing is made up.
It's just a fabrication.
It's not a real thing that actually biblically matters to us in the New Testament.
That's all I was saying.
Is there any link to rebuilding the temple thing?
How does that all link up?
Because I'm confused.
I think you just need to wait until Thursday.
I think you just have to hang in there for like 48 more hours and you're probably going
to learn more about the red Heifer than you can imagine 48 hours from now, so let's wait
for that.
Let's just put him on hold until Thursday.
I've got some good Australian red shorts that I'll wear on the day.
Alright great.
Thanks so much for calling in.
God bless you.
Have a good night or day.
I don't even know what time it is.
It's probably morning for them.
It's like next week over there.
Well we still got a lot of callers and I just wanted to prioritize somebody from Australia
because I know that it's a little more expensive to call internationally.
But I think we have another Brandon that we can bring in on the line from Tennessee it
looks like, or no I'm sorry Braden I think I looked at that wrong.
Do we have a Braden from Tennessee that we can bring on the line?
Yes sir, how are you doing?
Hey how's it going?
Did I get your name?
Is it Braden?
Yes sir.
And where are you from?
Chattanooga, Tennessee.
I couldn't tell from the accent so what's the question?
I was just wondering if you or Pastor Anderson could see any biblical event in the Bible,
if you could be there to watch it happen, whether it be the flood or something and revelation
or any event, Elijah calling fire down from heaven, anything, what would it be and why?
I mean, that's tough, but just like, just knee jerk reaction, I guess, just the Mount
of Transfiguration with, you know, Jesus and Moses and Elijah, I mean, because then you're
kind of getting a three for one there, and you're kind of hanging out with three apostles.
So, I mean, that's kind of like a one-stop shop. You got Jesus in his most glorified form.
You got Peter, James, John, Moses, Elijah. There's a lot going on there.
That was a good answer. My initial thought was Genesis 19, and then I realized I didn't
want to turn into a pillar of salt, and so I feel like I have to change my response.
But I think something cataclysmic like the flood would be just kind of interesting just to kind of
see like how that even worked I guess, but honestly... The flood is kind of a long movie
though because like the whole thing takes like 40 day nights. It might be boring. Yeah, it's a
little long. You're just watching water. Rain. You can't even see anything. It's just like when...
What about you, Ben? Do you have something you'd like to see? I'll say what about the creation
itself? That'd be cool to watch if it was possible somehow. Like wait a minute, did you not want to
see rocks shooting off of the earth and hitting the moon? That's why I said creation because I
want to see the rocks. Actually, that would have been the flood. That was not the flood. Sorry,
that was the flood. See, I was going with the flood. Sorry, sorry, sorry. Yeah, actually yeah,
you're right. The flood... Maybe I'll change my answer to the flood so I can see the rocks
shooting out like missiles and hitting the moon. Did you have one, Brayden? What was your pick?
You thought about this more than we did. I don't know. I think it'd be cool in Revelation to hear
the chairman and everybody screaming, "Worthy is the lamb." I think that'd be neat.
Well, all the future stuff you still get a chance to see, so there you go.
You still get a chance to see, yeah. Yeah, I guess you're right.
Well, thanks so much for calling in, Brayden. God bless you. Have a good night.
I want to go to another caller here. Troy from Wisconsin, I believe we have in the chat.
Hey, Troy. How's it going? Good. Thank you for having me on.
I'm Troy Highland and I'm from Rice Lake, Wisconsin. I had a question in 1 Peter 3
talking about basically what I'll be sticking to is verse 19 in 1 Peter 3, where it says,
"By which also you went and preached unto the spirits in prison." I know that the Abraham's
bosom thing is just a Jewish fable and I don't believe in that. But I've heard, me personally,
I reference this. I believe it's kind of like a reference to Isaiah 42 where it says,
and I'll just go there quick, it had a bookmark but then it disappeared. Oh there, it was a nail,
that's why I couldn't find it. But it says in Isaiah 42 verse 7, it says to open, and I'm kind
of cutting into it so I'm trying not to take anything out of context, but it says in verse 7,
"To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and then that
fit in darkness out of the prison house." And for more context of who the people in the prison
house are, in verse 22 of the same chapter it says, "But this is a people robbed and spoiled,
they're all of them snared in holes, and they are hidden in prison houses. They are for a prey,
and none delivereth for a spoil, and none save the store." In this chapter, if you actually read it,
I think Conde is talking about how he's going to bring the blind by a way that they need not,
lead them in paths that they have not known, talking about bringing, I believe, bringing Jesus
into the picture and salvation, because I believe it mentions the Gentiles in that chapter. But my
view on it is that he's just preaching to people that are lost, or maybe the lost sheep of Israel.
But I have a pastor who's a great pastor, and I love him. I come from an old IFB church myself
called Northwest Baptist, out of Shelley, Wisconsin. Soul Wonders and Such is a great church.
But he said, and it kind of made me think, and he said, because I'm a Sunday school teacher there
too, for adults, and I preached on Abraham's Book, and I actually was allowed, I asked him if I could
preach something against it, and he said I could if I gave both sides of it, and I did. And I don't
know if I changed his mind or not, because he said that Jesus did go to hell, and that's where he
preached the spirits in prison, so to speak. And I'm like, well, at least he's saying that Jesus
went to hell, you know, and not to Abraham's bosom, which is a step forward, not backwards.
But I just wanted to know what your guys' thoughts on that were when it comes to him preaching the
spirits in prison. I'll let you go ahead first, Pastor Anderson, give your thoughts on that verse.
Yeah, so when you interpret this passage, obviously you have to look at 1 Peter chapter 3
and 1 Peter chapter 4 because he gets off the subject in chapter 3 and then he gets back on it
in chapter 4 again. I did a sermon on this like super long time ago, like I don't know, 16 years
ago or something. It was called "Baptism and the Flood" is the name of the sermon. If you want to
go back and listen to like an archaic sermon from like 25 year old Pastor Anderson preaching about
this, but you know I would say that you know that you're right that it's talking about you know
preaching to unsaved people. Also another way of looking at it could be that he preached to the
people, to the spirits in prison like before they went to prison. Like I could say like I you know
I preached to that guy in prison doesn't necessarily mean I preached to him in prison,
it means I preached to that guy and that guy's now in prison you know. And so there are a few
different ways to read this but I think that the key thing to understand is that when we're talking
about people who were disobedient before the flood and while the long suffering of God waited while
the ark was preparing and so forth and then when you go to chapter four and it talks about how
you know the gospel was preached to them that are dead. I think it's what it's saying there is that
the gospel was preached to those who died physically because it says you know that they
might be judged according to men in the flesh but live according to God and the spirit. I think it's
a similar wording to like 1st Corinthians 5 you know like the destruction of the flesh that the
spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus and again it's a difficult passage but in that
sermon I explain how basically what's going on is that the word of God the gospel was preached
while the ark was being prepared before the flood and many people got saved and so they went to
heaven but they still physically died okay and so you know I was taught my whole life oh Noah
preached for 120 years and he had zero converts you know nobody got saved that doesn't make any
sense to me because you know God's word has power the gospel has power and anytime the gospel's
preached anytime the word of God is preached people are going to be saved so I don't believe
for one second that Noah preached and had zero converts and typically people who like that doctrine
are people who have zero converts they like that doctrine because then they can relate to that
version of Noah who doesn't get anyone saved because they don't get anyone saved I think that
just someone drowned in the flood doesn't mean that they weren't saved spiritually you know they
physically died and obviously even a saved person right now if they're living a sinful life God
might kill them you know if I went out and you know got drunk and committed adultery and did all
these big sins you know God could cause me to get in some car accident like because he just wants
to take me out before I do more damage to the cause of Christ and so you know I personally believe
that you know these people were preached to before they died okay I do not believe for one second
that Jesus Christ went to hell and preached to dead people in hell and that those people got saved
because to me that's just bizarre that you would think that people are getting another chance to be
saved after they're already dead and burning in hell because you know the problem with that is
that what kind of an idiot would just be like no thanks you know I'm not going to believe I'm not
going to get saved I think I'm just going to stay in hell you know because people will be like well
he's just giving people a chance to be saved it's like well I'm pretty sure if you went to hell
right now and do a salt winning marathon in hell I think everybody's going to get saved because
nobody wants to just no man I'm good I'll stay here because to me it's just kind of a crazy
doctrine to think that Christ is in hell giving people a chance to get saved because everybody
would take that chance and so what what kind of a what kind of a thing is that you know like
everybody's just getting a free pass at that point and so you know sorry you're in hell you're
screwed at that point and you don't get another chance and we shouldn't give people a false hope
that says hey there's this other chance that you might have to get saved after you're dead.
Now you better get saved now is the accepted time now is the day of salvation I think that Christ
and Noah you know both through the power of the Holy Spirit preached to people before they died
and again right you know I can't really do justice to the question in a matter of minutes
so I would point you to you know the sermon that I preached and I also did a series if you want
something more recent because I always believe that my more recent preaching is always better
and more accurate than older preaching you know I did sermons on first Peter 3 and first Peter 4
specifically I don't remember which one I really delved into this but I'm sure one of those is
going to delve into it so yeah I think I think those are some great thoughts and I think when
we talk about the idea of Jesus going to hell there's some really clear passages that talk
about that or actually bring that up specifically and they don't mention any of this stuff and when
you look at 1st Peter chapter 3 it's very clear that the context of the passage is about suffering
for righteousness sake and I think that that's the key you kind of have to keep in mind when reading
these verses is that that's the general context that's being described as the importance of
suffering because it says in verse number 14 of chapter 3 but and if ye suffer for righteousness
sake happy are ye and so it's definitely emphasizing the suffering in verse 18 it says for christ also
hath once suffered for sins the just for the unjust that he might bring us to god being put
the death in the flesh but quickened by the spirit so you know if you if you take verse 18 it's just
saying christ suffered against unjust people he suffered for righteousness sake by being put the
death but notice at the end of this verse it also brings up but he quickened by the spirit
so if i'm going to jump into the context of this in verse number 19 and bring up hell that seems
a little bit out of order because think about it it's talking about him dying and then resurrecting
and then now all of a sudden i'm going back to when he was in hell that's what that's not really
fitting that chronology so i definitely agree that verse 19 it's not talking about him going
to hell at all it's bringing up another instance how christ suffered for rights and his sake is
my opinion so one way he suffered rights and his sake is that he was put to death another way that
he suffered for righteousness sake is i believe just preaching to unsaved people and did these
people like it's it's to some degree frustrating and there's persecution associated with a lot of
the people that he preached to i mean think about it he came into his own and his own received him
not that's in a sense a suffering that he had to go through and i believe that the prison is in
reference to people being unsaved you could think about verses that talk about he led captivity
captive you think about the fact that the devil um i was thinking of a verse where it brings up
how in second timity chapter 2 and that they may recover themselves of the snare of the devil who
are taken captive by him at his will so there's some level of captivity that's associated with
being unsaved or being under the power and influence of the devil and i believe that
could be in reference to them being in prison and so it's just talking about jesus preaching to
people under the power and influence of the devil and that was a part of his suffering in verse 20
it says which sometime were disobedient again i think that that's just in reference to the idea of
aphesians chapter 2 how everyone that's under the power of influence of the devil is considered a
child of disobedience and i think why it ties in noah because again this is a difficult passage
but i think why it ties in noah specifically is just the fact that both of them kind of faced a
crowd of hostility because if you think about it just saying like only saved eight people were
saved with noah like the vast majority of people didn't receive noah's message and i think that's
kind of similar to maybe how jesus christ in the grand scheme of things most of the jews rejected
his message and so they both kind of have this tie in of suffering for righteousness sake and
i think that that's the general context to try and derive a preaching to unsaved people in hell
is is really just a strange view that's not found anywhere in the text and they're trying to take a
hard passage and and bring that to the next i don't think anybody would read this and then think
that like i don't think anybody would read that let's just say that let's just say for argument's
sake that you know jesus did preach to people in hell let's just let's just say yeah this is saying
that jesus you know after he died on the cross he descended into hell and he preached to these
people in hell who were disobedient you know while the while the ark was being prepared well then
you know i wouldn't believe for one second that those people got saved that like like you could
just make a case that he said stuff to them but there's no way that those people are now being
given an opportunity to be saved they had their chance no upreach to them like right that's what
they have to respond to they had moses and the prophets i mean yeah because if jesus shows up
preaching to them and they're being given an opportunity to be safe after they're dead after
they're in hell that creates all kinds of theological problems and the thing about that is that
anyone would accept it you'd have to be insane to be like no i still i know i've been in hell
for you know thousands of years i've been burning in hell but i just want to stay that's just stupid
like this idea doesn't really work yeah the rich man is gonna reject the rich man wanted to be
saved and you know he's hoping that people would get saved that you know haven't died yet but
you know abraham's clear like even though one rose from a dead neither will they be persuaded
and he says they have moses and the prophets let them hear them now of course the people in
those day didn't have moses yet but they still had prophets i mean enoch was a prophet obviously
some of the bible was obviously accessible to these people and maybe just oral form i don't know but
they it's not like they were void of god's word completely and noah was a preacher of righteousness
so they had the gospel being preached to them they rejected it and now they're not going to
have any chance i mean after death the theological position is no one can be saved i mean there's
great goal fixed no one can pass here and there i mean yeah and speaking of the you know the rich
man who's burning in hell right he's he's a believer i mean like yeah now that he's burning
in hell he's like wow you got to go talk to my family you know he doesn't need convincing
he's he's already there man but does that get him out of hell right it's almost like if jesus
were to go to hell and preach the gospel they can't get saved so it's like adding insult to
injury because it's like hey i'm out of here in three days and three nights so but you guys can't
get saved but here's the gospel it's kind of yeah exactly and if someone wants to believe that while
jesus was burning in hell he preached to those people you know i think that that's viable as long
as you don't come up with this goofball doctrine that says oh he's he's getting them saved that's
almost like the mormon doctrine because i just preached a whole sermon about the mormon doctrine
of baptisms for the dead uh on last wednesday night that's what i preached on and that's what
the mormons are saying they're saying hey look after people die they're being given another chance
to get saved and that's why we're doing these baptisms for dead people because we're getting
them like another chance to be saved there is no other chance to be saved my friend you get saved
before you die or you are gonna face eternal damnation it's that simple and and you know
no matter what passage somebody wants to twist to try to make you think that there's a second
chance there is not another chance after you're dead when you're dead it's over for you my friend
and people that are in hell they're gonna be in eternal torment so that's yeah this is your chance
and you know from a theological perspective the bible is clear that we're saved by faith
so here's the thing them in hell now they're not being saved by faith they're being saved by sight
well that's not really how you get saved anyways you have to be saved by faith in jesus christ
and you know this is our opportunity to believe in him now not when you're standing in front of the
judge and saying oh now i believe in you that it's evident and i don't even have to have faith
anymore it's like well that kind of only that destroys the whole essence of what the gospel
is the gospel is putting your faith in jesus christ and believing the gospel and that's what
gives god honor and glory not just oh now i believe it because i just don't want to burn in hell like
that's the total that totally messes up the whole point of why god even created the gospel and every
part of it so thanks so much for your uh your question again first peter chapter three the
end portion is definitely a hard passage of scripture it's definitely not necessarily one
of the easiest passages even if we played devil's advocate it still doesn't go the dispensational
route but i think it's clearly just talking about i agree with pastor anderson just talking about
unsafe people uh let's see if we can bring on another caller before i do i just want to plug
again we do have a show this thursday we've had a lot of people watching the show live we want you
to come and watch us on thursday the red heifer debate pastor jimenez and i'm going to be going
against a jew and a jew sympathizer on the red heifer on judaism are we bringing in the messiah
or the anti-christ and uh for those of us that are saved we already know the answer to that one
but i think it's gonna be a lively discussion ben's gonna be moderating for us i know he's
it's very easy for you to be neutral on this subject so well i will just draw inspiration
from when pastor anderson was sitting there talking to the rabbis and uh restraining and so
i will do so call it right down the middle great so we we pastor is going to take just a quick
break but uh i do want to address what is it i just wanted to say and i know this doesn't add
much but really appreciated how you guys expounded uh that passage there okay first peter shepard
three great what yeah give me your thoughts on that real quick i would say that it's just like
you guys were saying that the spirits in prison are unsaved people and and just as a follow-up
what about the idea that those who are unsaved are in bondage in the sense of like they're in
bondage to sin and when you get saved you're freed from sin so maybe that's another aspect
potentially yeah i think there's a lot of symbolism obviously egypt was kind of like a prison
egypt and egypt kind of pictures the carnal yeah so you know i think what is it roman's chapter
number seven also kind of indicates that that view of imprisonment in the old man like who shall
deliver me from this body of death yeah so again i think that that prison is a metaphor for just
the unsaved person is it is a slave to sin is and it can be taken captive of the devil at his will
is what the bible says so you know it's it's definitely a difficult passage and i think when
you read it in context it you have to you have to fit i believe your interpretation to any passage
within the context so if you just you know you're talking about hey it's important to suffer in the
flesh suffer in the flesh suffer in the flesh what's the point of bringing up jesus preaching
to people in hell like that's not he's not in the flesh he would be in the spirit if you were going
to even bring that up like it totally negates like what we're even talking about whereas if you if
he's preaching to unsaved people in the flesh and they're unreceptive hostile persecuting him
you know whatever then that correlates to what suffering in the flesh and going through
persecution and you know it also like pastor anderson brought up in chapter four it says in
verse number six four for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead that
they might be judged according to men in the flesh but live according to god in the spirit
meaning that the people when they die and go to hell and then they stand before god of the great
white throne judgment they don't have some excuse like well you gave them the gospel and they got
saved and we never got the gospel we never got a chance no it's going to be hey everyone heard the
gospel saved and unsaved you guys rejected it whereas these people did accept it and were the
evidence of the fact that god was fair and righteous and had good judgments and they're
basically the evidence of you know free will of people rejecting the gospel so i think that's
kind of how you can understand the importance of also how we are going to go through suffering in
the flesh i mean we're going to preach the gospel and not everyone's going to get saved i mean you
would love to think that everyone gets saved or when you approach people but the vast majority
of people aren't interested in the gospel and even when you do get to present the gospel not every
time does someone accept it i do think it's a high percentage you know i don't know what do you what
do you kind of think is your percentage when you actually get to present the gospel how often do
you think that person usually accepts in that conversation the vast majority of the time maybe
upwards of 50 percent maybe 60 percent or maybe even 70 higher yeah i feel like we've gone to a
yellow background perfect here so he's a shining he's he's been caught up to the transfiguration
and he's not you know what that tells me it's time to get in business yeah i know here we go
all right next caller right maybe we're in the end times let's go to another caller eli i think we
have on the line let's see if we can get eli to ask his question from south carolina it looks like
eli you on the line yes sir how's it going i'm doing good what part of south carolina you from
i'm from ake in south carolina cool what's the question for us well i originally had another
question but uh i had another one that came to mind to ask if that's okay go for it so i was
wondering um between um there's a lot of doctrine that goes along with independent fundamental
badness especially that a lot of people believe and they'll teach that in the old testament
people would have been saved a different way than people are now i was wondering where you
kind of draw the line on that between uh turning which of those people that teach that would be
actually saved and which of them are not saved teachers so it's just talking about dispensationalism
like maybe a hyper dispensationalism is that kind of yeah kind of like the ruffman view of it well
you know here's when it comes to determining whether or not someone's saved sometimes i think
that it's maybe like an unprofitable uh you know quest because like there's some people in the
bible that i think it's it's like not knowable like you kind of wonder like is this person saved or
not and many times it doesn't really matter because if someone's teaching any form of works
salvation like i'm gonna get away from them and have nothing to do with them and not promote them
like to me like galatians is really clear like any person that's preaching any other gospel
than that which you have received let them be accursed so like i preached a whole sermon on
this called within range and it's kind of based on the principle that you know the the priest
was worried about the king being destroyed because the the whole lineage of of juda was at in jeopardy
and the king was very young and he basically gives commandment unto his servants saying hey if
anybody comes within range of this king you just slay them because we don't know what their
intentions are and so like from my perspective it's like i don't really care if this guy's saved or
unsaved if he's messing with the gospel i'm just going to literally treat him the same i'm going
to treat him as an accursed person that i want nothing to do with and i'm going to stay you know
as far away from them as possible and i again i think someone that's in dispensationalism i
wouldn't necessarily go that far to say that they're like that but if they're teaching like
people are literally being saved by works then yeah i would call them a heretic and and just
basically have nothing to do with them um whether or not they're saved is their problem it's not
really my problem i don't know what you think on that pastor anderson yeah i i think that uh one
of the key things to remember is that the vast majority of independent fundamental baptists who
say that they believe in dispensationalism believe that salvation is the same throughout all ages
that is always by grace through faith it's only a more radical minority that would say that people
were saved by works in the old testament so if your church is dispensational don't freak out
because they're probably some kind of a watered down dispensationalism that still believes in
salvation being the same in all periods now i would say that you know i'm afraid that everyone
who's teaching this thing of oh in the old testament they were saved by their works or
again in the future you know during the tribulation they'll be saved by their works or something
you know i fear that all of those people are unsaved unfortunately but i don't know it's
like pastor shelly said that's kind of unknowable i hope that i get to heaven and find out that god
was just like way more lenient than i thought and that there are just going to be a lot of people
with really screwed up doctrine that that god says hey it was close enough you know what i mean like
because i want as many people to be in heaven as possible but i'm afraid that it's not going to be
like that and that you know we do have to believe that salvation is by faith obviously and these
guys that are teaching that it was by works in the old testament especially a pastor somebody who's
spent a lot of time studying the bible i mean i could see like if a new believer got goofed up
on that you know there's probably a much bigger chance that they're still saved and that they're
just confused but somebody who spent years and years studying and reading the bible it kind of
makes you question do you even understand the gospel because if you think people could get saved
by works back then like what in the world like you think that a filthy rag used to get people saved
because all our righteousnesses are filthy rags did they not used to be filthy rags back then
like what is that and so i'm you know when i hear that i agree with pastor shelly that if somebody's
that screwed up doctrinally you know at that point it might not hurt to just assume that that
person's unsaved you know my mom taught me when i was a little kid she actually said you know if
people are screwed up on doctrine and you just assume that they're not saved because they're so
screwed up you're not really hurting them because if they turn out to actually be saved they're
still going to heaven whether you consider them saved or not but she said if you wrongly assume
that people are saved who actually are not saved you actually might be hurting them because if you
just start assuming that everybody around you is saved then you're probably not witnessing to them
you're probably not giving them the gospel you know whereas you're not going to send people to
hell number two you know if they're not saved and you assume that they're not saved and if they are
saved you you know we we don't have the power contrary to what some people believe we don't
know to reprobate people you know right yeah i mean again like i i agree with that because paul's
kind of saying in galatians like i'm afraid of you and i think that's kind of the attitude that
we should have it's like hey i'm kind of afraid of you and afraid of your doctrine like you might
not even be saved here i think you know i try to be i'm trying to be more careful in the idea like
i don't want to just reprobate people that don't have the obvious manifestations of a reprobate
faggot and yeah of course they are but again like so you know it doesn't really matter though the
other day and i agree with Pastor Anderson like this is probably a minority of even dispensationalists
not even just fundamental baptists probably a minority of even dispensationalists that kind
of give lip service to this is this bizarre idea of multiple ways of salvation because i've seen
a lot of independent baptist websites that even say like we're dispensational and then they have
a big caveat like but we believe salvation is the same throughout all ages and everything they want
to be really clear because they don't want any kind of false accusation with that but but let's be
clear on something else that the actual founders of dispensationalism the fathers of dispensational
they did believe in that screwed up uh you know salvation is different at different times which
is part of why we should totally reject their teachings right it's like calvinism and and
limited atonement it's like they all want to get away from limited atonement it's like that's what
they believe well and there was a documentary on this a while back by pastor mahia called i think a
dispensation of heresy yep and in that documentary i'm pretty sure it kind of goes into the history
and quotes these guys and shows how they were teaching different modes of salvation and so
you know this kind of compromise view that says well we're dispensational but we don't accept the
different modes of salvation it's just like just throw out the whole dang thing because it's just
stupid and unbelievable anyway well thanks so much for your question eli thanks for calling in i want
to go to yeah i want to go to another caller let's see if we can get darryl on the line from
upstate new york or i don't know where he's from what part of long island manhattan where are we
at your neck of the woods no no no no no i'm in western new york i'm in buffalo new york oh so
he's he's not like them kind of people yeah listen guys i'm really it's a real real privilege to
talk to you guys and i watched and listened to all you guys preach and expound the scriptures that's
you guys are great um but if you don't mind me asking i want to uh first preface my question by
just laying out the words three and a half years uh the reason why is because i go to at ifd church
okay and um everybody's talking about the middle east wars and what's going on and and how the
rapture is going to happen any minute and it's an imminent return of christ and uh and all this and
you know i'll sit there and i'll just be quiet i'll listen and uh i'll try to let them you know say
what they want to say because they're all pretty much fox news christians you know um and uh they
don't really know what's really going on over there i watch uh like aljazeera tv uh on youtube
and it's pretty horrific and barbaric what's going on over there as far as what the jews are
doing to the palestinians over there but anyway i don't want to get sidetracked but what i want to
ask is when um uh the three and a half years happens okay is it from the abomination of
desolation and that's when uh rapture is going to occur three and a half years later or is it
something that happens before that we uh wait for the abomination that desolation happened three and
a half years later well it kind of looks like pastor is being raptured so you could probably
answer this question pretty easily but the three and a half years is usually coming from a couple
different places in the bible like it brings up time times and half a time that's kind of where
you get an idea of three and a half years or 1260 days as mentioned a few times in scripture as well
so but that's kind of showing like a midpoint of a seven-year cycle or what's referred to as Daniel's
70th week and it appears very clearly in the text the midpoint is the abomination of desolation
and the bible then describes a period of great tribulation and then there will be a rapture event
now i believe uh pastor anderson's chart if you if you get one it has a you can just literally
just type in google usually just like uh daniel 70th week steven anderson it's usually like one
of the top links you can find his chart he shows that he believes and places that timeline about
75 days from the midpoint of that 70th week and there's a lot of actually there's there's like
whole sermons he's done on this with all kinds of great indications like different kinds of
symbolism and and shadowing and and pictures about why he kind of comes to that specific
timeline but i agree i think it's very reasonable to think that that's a a realistic timeline
considering the fact that you know the wrath portion has to take a serious amount of time i
mean the bible brings up the idea of there being locusts tormenting men for a long portion of time
and there's all these different wraths being poured out so if that's going to happen in that
three and a half year period of time well of course then the rapture has to happen you know
within somewhat of a short space so i'm gonna let pastor anderson kind of comment on where he
comes up with the 75 day figure but i agree with him yeah so as you said there's a seven year
period that people typically refer to as daniel's 70th week because of the fact that it's foreshadowed
in the book of daniel and the thing about that is that at the midpoint of that so there's three and
a half years before three and a half years after that's where the abomination of desolation takes
place now many people who believe in a post-trib pre-wrath rapture would simply say that the rapture
takes place at an unspecified time during the second half of daniel's 70th week because we know
that at the midpoint with the abomination of desolation that's where tribulation intensifies
specifically for believers and that's the mark of the beast and christians are being persecuted
and except those days should be shortened there should no flesh be saved but for the elect's sake
those days shall be shortened so the anti-christ is not allowed to fully implement the mark of the
beast for the full three and a half years of his reign because you know it's cut short by christ
coming in the clouds the rapture so your typical before i came along your typical post-trib pre-rath
chart chart usually showed um an unspecified period of time you know that that just the rapture
takes place sometime in that second half of daniel 70 week i mean yeah that's a valid viewpoint
but i believe that there's just so much evidence in scripture pinpointing this really specific time
approximately 75 days after the midpoint that i do believe that the bible is pointing us to that time
as when the rapture takes place and i have done whole sermons on this one sermon where i talked
about it was called jesus walking on the sea that's kind of an older one there's another more recent
sermon called the timing of the rapture and i'm pretty sure my sermon called the timing of the
rapture is kind of the best one that i've done or most up to date i hope i'm not wrong but i think
that sermon i go into in great detail the uh you know the 1335 days and and all of these different
pictures of it throughout the bible so yeah i do believe that it specifically takes place like two
and a half the rapture takes place like two and a half months after the midpoint but again a lot of
post-strip pre-wrath charts out there just kind of leave it open-ended that it's just you know they
know it happens sometime in that second half but they're not you know pinning it down to like two
and a half months but i have a lot of good reasons for believing that it's not like i'm basing that
on one verse i'm basing it on like a lot of passages and so it caught me off if i get this
wrong i just want to say real quick the picture that you brought up in your sermon pastor ederson
about the hebrew calendar year made me fall off my chair the day of atonement when it occurs during
the year of jubilee picturing the rapture and lining up perfectly with daniel's 70th week
i just thought that was amazing well you know i'll tell you this i figured all that out while i was
preparing the revelation series that i did back in 2013 that i know a lot of people have watched
the big revelation series that we did with framing the world paul wittenberger back in 2013 i put a
lot of thought and effort into that series because i really wanted it to be something special and
people come up to me you know pretty much every month talking to me about it and thankfully
people are still watching it and i wanted it to be something that i could still recommend you know
10 11 years later so i really did my homework and i'm telling you that was something that i really
wanted to understand about that whole you know you shall have tribulation 10 days and all these
different things and i'll tell you when when that all clicked for me because it all clicked for me
like within a space like 15 minutes obviously it's a culmination of like thousands of hours of bible
study but i'm saying like once one thing clicked then like three other things clicked and i have
to say it was one of the greatest moments of my life i feel like it was just it was so exciting
just to see so many scriptures line up and then since then other people have written into me and
showed me other proofs that i'd never even thought of and so now i've just like accumulated all this
proof about it and it's it's interesting yeah the distance of them like traveling across the water
and then they just immediately appear at the other side that was a pretty cool one too
or uh you know jack and ios being also brought out of prison out of prison that was a good one too
so he's brought up the king and i think that was someone someone sent in wasn't it later if i'm
understanding correctly pastor anderson were you saying that the position we hold to that the
rapture happened 75 days after the midpoint which you brought up the biblical proof for that you've
got daniel 1212 you do the math 1335 minus 1260 but my point is um is that if i heard you correctly
the minority view amongst people who believe the post-reb pre-wrath position well i don't know if
it is anymore because obviously a lot of people have been influenced by that revelation series
that's literally been viewed by millions of people literally millions of people viewed after the
tribulation i mean the spanish version alone is viewed like 15 million times the the english
version was like well over five million views just on one upload about the tribulation so i i think
that my teachings have had an influence i don't really know how many people have kind of come over
to my view or any i don't know if any people who were already post-trib pre-wrath have come over
to my view but obviously you know if you walk into a baptist church and say i'm post-trib pre-wrath
you know your old ifb pastor is gonna ask you a question next so you listen to pastor steven
anderson there's a tippy cult somewhere well but obviously post-trib pre-wrath was of course around
before yeah i came along and it'll be around after i'm gone i'm not claiming to have invented any of
this i'm just saying that before i came along if you just googled this or looked at the main books
that taught it or the main charts that were out there it was just kind of this unspecified time
obviously now my charts are out there my documentaries my preaching's out there you
know perhaps you know now a lot more people that are post-trib pre-wrath are have come over to to
my view i don't know maybe it's my view is still a minority view maybe it's not anymore i just don't
know but i'm just saying before i came along that seemed to be the most prevalent view was that it
was just an unknown uh point in the second half of daniel seventy week that was like the typical
post-trib pre-wrath view and then there's another post-trib pre-wrath view that dr roland rasmussen
had taught and you know kent hovind has parroted because he's never had an original thought
in his life except dumb stuff that's retarded but anyway um you know that other view that
dr rasmussen had was that basically you know it's post-trib pre-wrath but that the wrath comes
after the seven years is over and i have great respect for uh the late dr roland rasmussen he
was a super smart guy and had a lot of great sermons against the preacher rapture but i
disagree with that view i think he was incorrect about that and so uh those are the two views that
that i've seen like like where they're post-trib pre-wrath but they still believe the tribulation
is seven years and then the view that it happens at some unspecified point in the second half of
daniel's 73 those are the two views that i have seen the most before i came along but now the
view that i see the most is my view just because of the fact that you know we've reached a lot of
people with this so do we still have darryl on the line i'm curious uh if you had any thoughts
about our our answers here well i would think it was really good um as far as the uh three and a
half years though i was wondering now the three and a half years is this before the abomination
desolation maybe i didn't hear this right i want to listen to that sermon that uh says an earlier
sermon pastor if you could rename that again for me um the timing of the rapture yeah the timing
up to the the three and a half years was elite up to the abomination of desolation is that what
it is yeah so you basically have you have two three and a half year time period so you kind of have a
seven year period and it's basically 1260 days and then you have that midpoint which is the
abomination of desolation then you have another 1260 days but because of the way the jewish calendar
works you actually have another 30 days that's tagged in at the very end so it's 1290 and so
but it's basically just a time times and half a time which is three and a half years approximately
or 42 months is the bible so the bible has a lot of different ways of actually describing that time
period uh and i think if you look at my in times chart or if you look at pastor anderson's in times
chart it'll show you some of the verses that indicate those time periods and why we're coming
to those conclusions i don't even think you need the book of daniel to to come to those same
conclusions but it definitely fits perfectly as well and so hopefully that answers your question
thanks so much for calling in darryl i'm gonna go ahead and get to another caller here and we still
have lots of people on the line i want to see if we can get ted from minnesota we got a lot of
northerners here calling in um ted i don't know if we got you on the line can you hear us oh yeah
how's it going how you doing don't you know we got ted on the line don't you know from minnesota i
know minnesota snowy place i gotta get you guys up here sometime for a uh bible conference well
we had a minneapolis marathon i know that was uh probably what five years ago or something yeah i
was a while back i had to stay at the mall of america more than i wanted yeah i tried to get
to that thing i was tied up but anyway i followed you guys for years i just wanted to uh say uh i
appreciate everything you guys have done congratulations to uh pastor shelly on getting
a new building where i know you've had problems um thank you with the uh people breaking windows
all that stuff uh so forth um i followed you pastor anderson ever since the days of the border
patrol and uh love some of your videos on that too by the way um i got one of these things that
just kind of been sitting in my mind for 10 years it's not really a big thing just more of an english
trying to understand uh something and this goes way back you preach the sermon um talking about
the uh children that mary had and uh you know you mentioned the brothers of jesus and it talks about
it and names the names of jesus brothers and then the sisters and it says are they not all here with
us and what you have brought up in that is that uh she had eight at least which you mentioned like
three sisters and i just curious i've been trying to think how they went from a minimum of two
up to a minimum of three in the english language and i just can't seem to figure out how to get up
to to three on that number and i i just kind of curious if you can kind of illuminate my
mind a little bit and sure uh fill me in if you remember how that sermon went or yeah i do remember
it's uh it's not the word they that's the operative word there it's the word all so typically
the word all would not refer to two people because you would use the word both so what i was saying
is that if it says his you know his sisters are they not all with us it doesn't say they're they're
both with us or something it says they're all with us and typically all would be three or more
um a lot of languages in this world have uh singular plural and dual uh biblical hebrew is
like that it has uh not just singulars and plurals but also has dual and um you know
homeric greek is like that um the bible doesn't use dual forms in the new testament but you know
you could still have obviously words like two or both and things like that so my point was that
typically when we use the word all we're referring to three or more because you wouldn't say all two
of them all two of us you'd say all three all four all five but you would never say all two
so the way that i did the math there is that the bible lists by name four brothers of jesus right
four and then you have jesus himself and then his sisters are not they all with us yeah so now the
roman catholics what they would say is they would turn around and say well when it says brothers
there and sisters it's not a literal brother it's more like relative which obviously sometimes the
bible does use the word brother in the sense of just relative and it could be a nephew an uncle
a cousin it could be anything but the problem with that interpretation is that we have so much other
evidence that mary and joseph had children for example it says he knew her not until she brought
forth her firstborn son so after she brought forth her firstborn son then he knew her we don't believe
in the perpetual virginity of mary joseph and mary got married and you know a marriage where
people don't have sex is not a legitimate marriage number one okay it has to be consummated in order
for the marriage to be real and then the other thing is that she brought forth her firstborn son
and we have two different scriptures that bring up the fact that jesus is the firstborn son
you know it'd be like if you had a movie that was called part one you're expecting a part two you
know you're not just gonna have part one and nothing else and so if you have a firstborn son
then the implication is that there are going to be other sons after that now of course the modern
versions based on corrupt manuscripts like Vaticanus remove the word firstborn from Matthew chapter one
it's you know and you can see how someone could have a motive to do that just like you can see a
motive for removing acts 837 you know act 837 is teaching that you have to believe on Jesus Christ
before you get baptized well that's not going to work for Roman Catholic or even Protestant infant
baptism and so you can see a motive where someone would take out a verse that's inconvenient for
their doctrine take out the word firstborn and say wait a minute it's not a firstborn son
it's her only son because she stayed a virgin and whatever and so I think that when you just look
at all the evidence he knew her not until firstborn son this guy's the brother of the Lord
these are his brethren his sisters are they not all with us and then you just use common sense
that if Mary and Joseph got married they have to have sex or they're not really married
the Catholics are full of baloney. One thought and again I don't know because I've never even
really considered if it was two or three sisters but maybe it's possible that the all is referring
to the brothers and sisters so it could still technically be two and fit because I agree with
you from a grammatical sense you wouldn't say all with two I think both might make sense but if the
all is referring to all the brethren then perhaps it was just two but again at this at this point
like think of contention Catholics aren't wondering if he has seven or eight siblings
they believe in a perpetual eternal virgin that ascended into heaven they say that Joseph took
a vow of celibacy and it's just like it's just still bizarre so I mean it's so insane what they
they they literally teach that even before Mary and Joseph were visited by their respective
angelic visitors that they were never planning on having sex that this whole marriage was always
going to be one with no sex involved and you know what that's not marriage and that and they're like
oh well back then that was a thing on what planet was that a thing well I heard I heard the catholics
say they were doing that because they wanted to become the Mary and Joseph like people were just
deciding like I'm going to be celibate and hope that God will pick me as being the Mary or the
Joseph or some nonsense yeah these are the same type of teachings as people who tell you like oh
yeah Mohamed you know married a nine-year-old but that was normal back then it's like they just
make up the stupid weird or oh back then girls got married when they were 12 and that was normal
oh they used to breastfeed babies till they were five or six years old you actually start to study
ancient history and I've studied a lot of ancient history I've read a lot of ancient literature
here's what you find out that these teachings have no actual evidence backing them at all
they're just made up after the fact and they're mentioned literally centuries or even more than
a thousand years after the fact they're telling you what things were like a thousand years ago
that'd be like if I said well here's what it was like in 1100 AD here's what the culture was like
you know what in the world I have no knowledge of that I'm living in 2024 I would I would have to
base it on something I read from back then and guess what there is no literature from back then
teaching these stupid bizarre things and also common sense should tell you that dudes aren't
going around marrying women with no intention of having sex with them that is just dumb yeah I
don't know what the point is I preach the sermon the the main reason men get married and uh maybe
you can reference that but uh I will go thanks so much for calling in and uh thanks for being a
listener thanks for you know thinking about us and praying for us and uh we'll we'll consider
Minnesota you know maybe it's the it's the mall you know evangelism extravaganza or something
they do have a roller coaster they have roller coasters in the Mall of America and it's pretty
cool that it's like indoors and everything like that it's it's definitely a unique experience but
I just don't like malls so I don't think you have kind of a love hate relationship with the Mall of
America. Yeah that's true it is true I can stand it for about you know half a day but then I get
really done with it fast I guess. Let's go ahead and see I think we have another caller from Texas
Jackie who we can see if we can bring on the line she's been waiting a little while.
Jackie can you hear us? Hey how are y'all? Thanks so much for being patient and calling in. Where
are you from? Mountain Home it's the it's out of Kerrville in the hill country. What is that close
to? San Antonio. Okay so what's your question for us this evening? Well I go to a really great
soul-winning church. They're great on salvation but they're pre-trib. What is a good way to
approach the pastor maybe not me as the wife but maybe my husband I don't know to get have a
conversation about you know the things that we differ in. I mean here's the best way to do it.
The best way to do it is not to do it. Okay. Because honestly like you should just be happy
that you have a good church soul-winning you know a lot of people unfortunately get really emotional
about that issue. The information's already out there. Your pastor's probably heard it before.
If your pastor's interested and researches it he's going to find the information. It's in the Bible.
Our teachings are out there. Other people's teachings are out there. I don't think it's
worth it over such a minor issue that in the scheme of things is not the most important thing
at all. And I know that in some ways it's like that was our big film after the tribulation.
And you know I'm glad it was a big film. A lot of people got saved through the gospel presentation
at the end of that film. I enjoyed making the film. I still think it's a great film and I do
believe that you know our end times views are correct and biblical and I enjoy preaching them.
But at the end of the day that is like a really low level doctrine as far as being super important.
There are a lot of other things that are way more important and I don't think it's worth
rocking the boat with your pastor. You know if your pastor expresses an interest or expresses
doubt about the pre-trib view and seems like he wants to talk about it or something but just
just bringing that up to him is probably just asking for trouble. I would say just go with the
flow. I'll put it this way. I went to pre-trib churches from the time I was 12 and I learned
that the pre-trib rapture was false at age 12 to the time I was 24 and started Faith Forward Baptist
Church. So 12-13 years there I went to churches that were pre-trib and I never approached any
pastor or any church leaders and tried to convert them on this. I just went to church, did my best
to be a blessing, serve God, focus on the 99% that we agree on and I don't think it's a good
idea to confront your pastor about this or your husband or anybody. Yeah I would second that and
again you know this issue specifically when we talk about the timing of the rapture for whatever
reason it's a big deal to a lot of these people and it's not just a big deal to your pastor it's a
big deal to a lot of fundamental babbists and for them you know coming out and saying like their
post-trib could be a big deal like change a lot of things about their friendships their associations
even maybe some of the members of their church and so it's not just like you know having a
difference of opinion here for some of these people it's it definitely changes a lot about
their church their atmosphere their friends their relationships like there's so much connected to
that doctrine for some reason that I think you don't want to really strong arm a pastor
on those issues because he's gonna have to kind of make that decision for himself and he kind of
gonna have to want to make the decision for himself if he wants to even change on that
particular position. I think you know again I wouldn't even bring it up with other people
obviously you don't want to lie and obviously you never you know I wouldn't you know if asked
directly about it saying that I didn't believe it or something but I went to a pre-trib church for
over a year believing that fully and I never got brought up no one had brought it up to me said
something and in fact the church that I was going to the pastor preached pre-trib for three months
straight and even like after the end of some of the sermons he'd be like no one can disprove
anything that I've said and you know I just obviously felt like he was like taunting me or
something even though he didn't know that I believe that way but you know there were still
good things about the church and I was still able to get people saved and I just don't think it
would have been profitable for me to try and rock the boat you know obviously I think pastors do
enjoy their members coming up to them asking questions and talking about the Bible to some
degree but that issue specifically is so highly charged that I agree with Pastor Anderson it's
probably just not worth it to cause them this kind of controversy because again it should be one of
those issues where we should all be able to just openly have a conversation it's not a big deal
but for some reason our culture and our fundamental baptist makes such a big deal about this that you
know you have to give them a little bit of grace here to realize that it's not just trying to
understand what the bible says like there's so much to attach to this doctrine like have you noticed
that brother ben about like just there's so much just connected to that doctrine and like friendships
and conferences and everything a friend of mine a number of years ago asked me to speak at his
wedding for 10 minutes or something and it was at his pastor's church the pastor called me to the
office and said just so you know we're pre-trip and i'm just like okay here are my notes i wasn't
talking about that so this just goes to show you the reason i bring this up it just goes to show
you how emotional they get about this subject i was very respectful to the guys all right hey no
problem you know well you know wait in his defense don't you have a really good uh it's not marriage
oh no no it was birth analogy was it birth about the end times tell us tell us your idea yeah i
felt like so when my wife had her our first child you know i going through that labor process for
the first time it got me thinking this reminds me of daniel's 70th week so those initial birth uh
what's it called contractions yeah that's like the first three and a half years when the water
breaks that's the abomination of desolation and that kick starts the really intense part of the
labor which is the great tribulation and when the baby comes out it's the uh the rapture wasn't
there a funny line well i was uh i was at that wedding ben and uh you did a great job on that
sermon because i was there and i remember him taking you into the office and everything so i
i just want to back up uh that's ben's story but it's real because i was there well you know what
you know what makes me think about a man and a woman getting married is the anti-christ coming
to power turn to matthew 24 yeah because because you're talking to ben you're talking about in
michigan right yeah in michigan yes yeah i remember that it was that wedding then yep you were there
you were there because after the honeymoon it immediately after the honeymoon is this
tribulation i don't know that'd be that'd be funny it was definitely the first time i've had the
pre-trip talk that's what i call it the pre-trip talk go ahead yeah and and the thing is that you
know the church that i was going to in california the church that pastor imenez went to they were so
strongly pre-trib they didn't really teach on it or explain it because you know how can you explain
it it isn't even biblical but they would just in sermons just kind of throw in a thing of if you're
not pre-trib you're calling jesus a liar i mean a lot of people in that crowd would would even
say that you're not saved if you're not pre-trib and that and that it's a it's a damnable hairs i
mean it's crazy just declare someone unsaved because of their view on end times prophecy
and this isn't a big deal to us but it's a huge deal to them where they're literally getting up
and saying you know you're calling jesus a liar i don't even think you're saved all this dumb
stuff and yet i just sat there and just kept my mouth shut because there were so many good
things about the church and there was so much great preaching that was happening i'm not just
gonna get all upset because the pastor offended me or something because you know at the end of the
day i knew that i was right and so you know he's he's wrong about that but he's still a great guy
and so i think that's the way to handle it well thanks so much for calling in jackie uh hopefully
you can just be encouraged about the good things about your church and just count your blessings
and uh i hope that was a a good response for you we're gonna go to another we got a few more
callers we're gonna try and get all the people that were we're hanging on the line for a while
i think we have a Rasheed in in indiana is that how you is that how you say the name why are you
asking me yeah you said it right okay good ben's kind of got that terrorist connection so i i was
just trying to see no i'm just giving her time hey Rasheed how's it going going all right hello
pastor Shelly pastor anderson and ben um my question was uh directed to pastor anderson
because i already asked his question to pastor Shelly via email um but my question was did pastor
anderson believe that jesus christ has always been flesh because um in his younger years uh i saw a
sermon where he didn't believe that but i just wanted to know his view on it like in 2024
i mean i i think that before the world even began before the world was even created obviously
the father the son and the holy ghost already existed you know jesus was in the beginning with
god and he was god before there was any creation of the universe so i would still say that no
jesus christ has not always been flesh because you know he became flesh at some point and i would
personally say that he you know before the world began you know was still there in the beginning
with god even before there was a physical universe you know i think that god dwells outside of his
creation in a sense he transcends i guess i should say he transcends the universe and so i would say
that no jesus has not always been flesh but i do believe that you do have old testament appearances
of christ where christ seems to be appearing in the flesh even before you know his incarnation
2000 years ago so how does that work obviously that's somewhat of a mystery i have my views on
that i think pastor shelley and i probably have similar views on that but um you know saying that
jesus christ was always flesh i do not believe is is accurate so i guess i agree with my former
self this time so that's good yeah just just a comment obviously the bible says in john chapter
one that the word became flesh so that that indicates some change that happened i think
when we try to understand the pre-incarnate christ or the what's called theophanies or the
times in which jesus is appearing in the old testament um there's a lot of possibilities
there you know one thing i would say is that jesus christ i believe is isn't glorified flesh today
and you know the bible does say that jesus christ is the same yesterday today and forever
so you know understanding what that means that the word became flesh and dwelt among us i mean the
bible says great is the mystery of godliness god was manifest in the flesh so how in the world did
you know the almighty god that created everything become a man through a virgin you know that's
definitely going to be a mystery because the bible literally says that it even says it's a great
great is the mystery of godliness i do think though again when it comes to christ being
invisible and physical form in some sense in the old testament he wrestled i mean a man wrestled
with jacob so it wasn't even just something that he saw it was something that he literally grabbed
and touched and was experiencing so there's got to be some physical element there you know i think
it's it's plausible to suggest the idea that christ may have been in glory prior to his incarnation
obviously there was something special and unique about the incarnation perhaps that's the first
time you ever put on flesh and there's some other explanation about the pre-incarnate christ but
i think to some degree it's a little bit vain jangling i mean i think as long as we all
acknowledge that christ put on flesh and became carnate in mary's womb that christ always existed
and that he always will exist i think that's really what's important and additionally god
can be seen i think that the the test of orthodoxy on this subject would be like is christ jesus come
in the flesh you know like that that's kind of the thing that we need to believe that christ was
manifest in the flesh that christ came in the flesh that he wasn't just an apparition or here
spiritually or or whatever that he you know that the apostles saw him touched him handled him
and and so forth and so i do think that if we try to wrap our mind around you know what was
the trinity like before the universe was created that's just one of those unknowable things that
philosophers will try to delve into and i think that it's better just leave those things alone
does that kind of answer your question receipt oh yeah yeah i just wanted to know the pastor
anderson still believed that um also i heard uh shelly you explained it as how adam when well
before adam sinned he had not glorified flesh but some type of flesh but then when he sinned he
changed and that was kind of like jesus like how well the father and the holy ghost they
weren't ever flesh but jesus was and then he came down obviously as a baby immortal flesh
and then became glorified at the resurrection that's how i heard you explain i don't agree
with you obviously but i feel like proceed is kind of just calling in and trying to like pit
us against each other like i don't know his question was already answered by email and he
wants to get me on the air with you and talk about how we don't agree on something or whatever it's
just i think well i feel like this is kind of a silly conversation and just just to clarify i
don't like yeah just to clarify i don't know what uh what he's referring to exactly because
i don't believe that i've ever taught that adam's flesh changed uh when he sinned because i don't
i don't believe that i believe that when he ate of the tree in the midst of the garden that his
spirit died i think that that was a spiritual change i don't know that there was any physical
change to adam i don't know what i would have said uh to the contrary of that obviously sometimes
we can change our minds about things but well it's always wonderful to have people like uh
regurgitate your teachings to you possibly inaccurately you know live on the air trying
to pitch you against your friend again i mean i i think it's good to clear the air about what i
believe here it's just like yeah but sometimes i think what happens is people there's all these
trolls and like losers online that try to like tell everybody what i believe or what we believe
and then people like foot or get hooked lying in sinker for that particular narrative whereas
that's not really true pastor sheldon i mean have you heard me teach something like that i've never
one time heard you teach that but i will say you taught a and i heard pastor anderson taught b
just saying maybe y'all should hash that out right here right now yeah i don't know but i don't i
honestly i don't even know what our differences are if even if there is one on that but it would
be a nothing burger in in my opinion but let's let's go ahead and go to another call we have a
few more uh we could probably go all night but i want to try and just keep the ones that had
called in a long time ago the lines are shut officially we're giving them an opportunity
we're just going to get through the ones we have so we have tim waiting from toronto uh can you
hear us tom tim hi yeah hi pastor sally pastor anderson brother ben uh this tim we talked about
tim earlier and he he's here now here he manifested tim jane is that right um i just have a question
about the bible translation because as you mentioned before that trinitarian bible society
i did purchase some chinese uh new testament from them and i noticed um in the new testament
i bought a new testament chinese translation also uh john john uh the gospel of john and i
noticed it translates john 3 16 a little differently and uh one one says gods for
god so loved the world literally the world means in chinese is the world right and the other
translations god so loved the people of the world and uh because we've been using union version for
the past decade so we're used to the translation that god so loved the people of the world so i'm
trying to see your opinion on bible translation like when do you literally translate a word
literally or you deviate from literal translation thanks well i think that i think that uh sometimes
there's more than one legitimate way to translate something that still accurately reflects the
meaning of the greek and hebrew you know don't tell that to these rukmanites that think that
there's only one right way to translate and it has to be exactly the way the king james words
things even when the king james isn't literal and look i believe that the king james bible is the
word of god without error but sometimes the king james is a very literal translation other times
the king james is less literal and will actually just get the meaning across and and i even
demonstrated this with the 1611 replica by showing all the places where in the column they tell you
what the greek literally says but yet they choose to translate it in a way that's going to be more
understandable for the reader in english but then in the column they say well you know literally
this is what it says and then you can see why they put the superior translation that they did
because the literal translation doesn't necessarily sound as good and so in the english language when
we hear for god so loved the world we automatically know as english speakers when we hear the word
world we automatically know that he's talking about the people of the world he's not talking
about him loving a ball of dirt okay but in other languages the word for world may have a different
connotation where you need to clarify that i don't speak chinese so i can't really you know speak
to that and also even though i know that you brother are a native chinese speaker we also have
to understand that there are lots of different dialects of chinese regional things you know you
know even amongst english speakers we would disagree sometimes about what words mean or what
the best wording is even from california to texas or to south carolina or australia england canada
and so sometimes you know you might realize that different people have different understandings
of different words in different regions and so maybe for some people and again i'm guessing
about chinese because i don't know chinese but my suspicion is that the people behind that
translation are saying hey when i see the word world in chinese you're not really going to get
the people out of that the way that you would in say greek or english or spanish or something
and so we're going to need to clarify this and look if you'd say like well it's wrong to add
that word to clarify well here's the thing the king james adds words to clarify too and there
are a lot of times where the king james will put in a word that's not in the original greek
in order to clarify what we're talking about because if you didn't do that it wouldn't make
any sense in english because different languages have different rules and if you just literally
translate the greek word for word in many cases you're going to get sentences that don't make
sense in english and i'm thankful that our english translation of the bible makes sense
every verse of it makes sense and there aren't any nonsensical verses that are just bringing
over the greek and heber directly even if it doesn't make sense in english well you know part
of translating is you got to make it make sense in your target language so i wouldn't just say
hey you have to add people of the world or you can't add people the world you know depends on
the language it's a complicated subject i don't know enough about chinese but it's very possible
that both are good and that and that both translations could work because if they're
both getting the same idea across we all know that it's the people of the world that's being
referred to so if that's what it takes in chinese then you know yeah i think that i think sometimes
maybe in bible translations the error is typically to go too literal just because they're afraid of
of maybe using too much maybe dynamic equivalence or something but of course there's going to be a
certain amount of having to understand the concept phrase or whatever is going on and translating
that as a whole not just going one word at a time and just like what's the equivalent word and just
replacing sometimes it's going to be a phrase that needs to be retranslated so i don't think
that an overly literal translation would ever be good i know that if you actually study the history
of the english translations that some of the first translations in the english which we're not we're
not talking about whole bibles we're just talking about certain verses they were overly literally
translating the english to the point where it didn't even make sense it wasn't even grammatically
making sense because they had to do the same word order the exact the exact number of words
and it's like i think they were translating psalm 23 and it's like me shepherd i not want or
something like that is like how they translate it because it's just like they're just trying to you
know is this what you brought up at torches um i don't know translations yeah i might have brought
that up but again like i don't think that uh you know we should always be literal overly literal
every single time but it's as far as the chinese version who knows maybe maybe there could be
improvement over time when people kind of have the right doctrine there is that verse in ecclesiastes
11 one in the bishop's bible cast thy bread on wet faces cast thy bread upon west face is that
is that an example where they went overly literal there or what's up with that so passage yeah i'd
have to look it up in hebrew but that's probably what's going on would be my guess well i think
that was a good question just to generally you know address at least should we go over the literal
and i i think it's pretty obvious anybody that speaks multiple languages that that's going to
be a failure very quickly if if you do so and so unless you're rukhmanite yeah and even the king
james isn't like that way and and there is a strange version of rukhmanism that wants to back
translate overly literally and then reject every underlying greek and hebrew text but that's just
a bad view yes of bible translation so we'll describe her on the ground that's like looking
at the earth and saying it's flat so let's we got a few more callers let's see if we can get to andrew
from indiana i think he has a question on hebrews uh andrew can you hear us all right thanks for
taking my call yeah thanks for calling in i got saved watching the 2008 uh video with pastor dave
versions and pastor anderson so you got more than one person saved in that video so just for the
to clarify for the viewers that is a soul winning demonstration where pastor anderson's getting
pastor burzins quote unquote saved he was like a pseudo christian right i can't remember i still
remember the day that i had that idea i was working on top of a roof doing fire alarms
with a buddy of mine from new york who was also a christian and we were up on the roof and i just
said hey i just had the this idea i need to make a video where i you know just go through soul
winning at the door and just act it out and make a demonstration and the reason that that video is
exactly nine minutes and 59 seconds is because in those days there was a 10 minute limit on
youtube so i kind of had to talk fast and and i had to fit that it was like literally nine minutes
and 59 seconds that's funny and pastor burzins was of course already saved he wasn't a pastor
at the time in those days he was just brother dave to us but uh we acted that out and that video got
millions of views over time and so it's yeah you know it's really a lot of people to hear from
somebody that's saved that's cool to hear from somebody that gets to watch that video what's
your question yeah so my question is about the cloud of witnesses um so in heaven we're around
the throne of god and we're fellowshiping with god and praising god but the the cloud of witnesses
is always presented as we're constantly being watched but there i mean there's there's billions
of us you know what i mean on the entire planet and so i always kind of have trouble reconciling
those two ideas where we're we're watching we're doing billions of things at the same time does
that make sense well they're watching the people that are more interesting right more no i'm just
kidding i would just i would just say that first of all that verse isn't really clear enough where
you could really just build a doctrine saying hey the saved people of the past have gone on before
who are in heaven they're watching us i don't think they're watching us in a creepy way like
you know oh man i'm doing something wrong and it's like is my grandpa seeing this right now
or what you know i don't think that that's what's going on i think that it's more just vaguely saying
we're compassed about by so great a cloud of witnesses and it's talking about the believers
that have gone before i think just in general they're aware of what's going on on earth
and they kind of know what the deal is and how christianity is doing and how churches are doing
i don't think that i'm necessarily you know in the bathtub and and i got these people watching me
like i think that i don't think that's what's going on i think that's so funny because i
literally even thought about that one time but but obviously like in some sense god being able to see
us from heaven is is definitely a unique experience because obviously like god's looking
through clouds and buildings and whatever and somehow god can literally see everything and
experience everything i believe that's limited to god himself so but at the same time you know when
the bible talks about you know jesus is kind of referencing how abraham saw jesus's day and rejoiced
so i think that that might be another verse that could kind of indicate like what pastor
is saying that they're they're kind of aware plus in the book of revelation it does seem like they
kind of are aware of at least the timeline like how long is this going to take and you know how
long is going to take to judge and then when certain judgments are doled out like everyone's
rejoicing specifically because babalon was destroyed and stuff like that so there has to be some
semblance of awareness but maybe it's like a macro version I don't know how micro it really is or
if it is even micro I kind of would think it's maybe like what Pastor Anderson's saying where
they're kind of getting the highlights of the best people doing the best things it's probably not
you know they're not necessarily aware of every single they may not be watching the
baptist bias but who knows you know I don't know what they're doing up there in heaven but uh it
there's like five random guys from like the 14th century AD or something that just hey have you
guys heard about this and they're just kind of hanging out watching it like I wish we could
call in bro I'm ready for that red heifer debate on Thursday man I can't wait to watch
the red heifer debate all these like there's these Levites from back then who actually
like handled the red heifer yeah they're like we're so excited yeah he's gonna talk about us
or or just like some of the bad characters they're just like you know they mentioned
lot or something like that and he's like oh man me again you know it's like I don't know
who knows how that it was just watching every sermon about him he's like yeah he just you know
never gets a break man who knows who knows how that's I mean it's a good question it's not a bad
question because like you know you hear preachers talk about this the cloud of witnesses I grew up
hearing about it and you do kind of wonder like well how does that work I think in my page it's
kind of one of those unknowable things and I and but I would I have a hunch it's more of a macro
like they just kind of know what's going on in general not like let's pull up Pastor Anderson
see what he's up to or you know like something like that yeah I don't think I don't think that
they're necessarily tuned in on us like sinning and doing horrible things but at the same time
I think that the context of Hebrews 12 is trying to motivate us to finish the race like not to quit
and to keep serving God and and I think that they're excited when Christians get someone
saved I mean the Bible talks about one sinner you know repenting and and heaven's excited about that
and rejoicing and I think that so I think that heaven is excited when we're getting someone saved
and when people are taking bold stands for Christ and when the word of God is being preached and so
you know I think it's supposed to try and motivate us to recognize like hey it's not just it's not
like only God's paying attention we even have a great cloud of witnesses that care and are
excited and and it's kind of like of course in a football game people are motivated by the crowd
the crowd's you know loud and ecstatic and it's like go team and and i kind of just that's what i
preached about in a sermon not that long ago just about if we could recognize all the people that
are cheering us on it would probably help us and motivate us to cover to serve god better yeah so
i think that it's a great thing to think about because obviously the bible brings it up but
i don't know how creepy i don't think we should get creepy on it it's just kind of like a
hey be motivated to do good because a lot of people are cheering you on and that luke 15
that you reference there that's not about what it talks about a sinner repenting that's not
salvation right according to your view or or is it i don't know i think it could be interpreted
both ways i do think it could be interpreted as salvation but you know who knows exactly what the
reference is there yeah again you know i i think one of the keys to bible interpretation is to
realize that a lot of scriptures can be understand can be understood on more than one level and i
think that a lot of times you make the mistake of saying well this interpretation is right and
this one's wrong a lot of time they can both be right because the bible you know can be applied
in various ways because the bible is so deep and so you know you could have a bunch of preachers
preaching totally different sermons out of the same passage and all the the sermons are legitimate
even though they're preaching totally different interpretations because they're not necessarily
mutually exclusive and and a lot of times we could argue that maybe one interpretation is the primary
interpretation or the main way of understanding it but it doesn't mean that there aren't secondary
and tertiary interpretations that are totally different you know you know one example that
i like to bring up is like in the book of daniel you've got uh you know this thing of like if you
don't bow down to this image you're going to be thrown in the fiery furnace right obviously
that's a foreshadowing of like the anti-christ you know the image to the beast and you know if
you don't worship the image of the beast you could be killed but you could also just vaguely have like
an image of hey it doesn't matter how good you are if you don't believe in christ if you don't you
know recognize him as the true god you're going to be thrown into hell that's not the best primary
interpretation of that passage but yet there could be some symbolism there because right you know
they're 10 times better than everybody else in Daniel chapter 1 but they're still going to the
fiery furnace if they won't worship you could come up with another like you know maybe obscure or
strange interpretation of that story but it doesn't mean that it's necessarily wrong or that there
isn't something to that you know for example text mars had you know a strange interpretation of the
book of ester and people just totally freaked out but at the same time even though i don't agree with
uh you know everything that he was teaching like some of what he taught actually was there i think
and and so you know you know i believe that he's in heaven you know but we got a couple more colors
and he's not shaved and whatever i think they're overreacting a little bit to that not trying to
open that can of worms i don't agree with his interpretation but at the same time some of the
symbolism he brought out could be valid you know because of the fact that there's a primary
interpretation but then you know you could literally have the same character in the bible
at one point representing jesus you know and at another point representing you know something
negative because you know david is a type of christ but yet we have david committing adultery
committing murder you know you have samson doing this you have you know jeffa's daughter is a
picture of jesus but she's a woman you know what's that like obviously the bible has all kinds of
symbolism going on and layers upon layers of interpretation we can spend our whole life
studying it we're never going to understand everything we're never going to mine its depths
so i think luke 15 is such a rich passage that there are multiple legitimate interpretations
that you could pull from that sermons that you could preach about salvation sermons that you
could preach about people getting right with god and they could both be right well we have two more
callers and i want to try and get to them thanks so much andrew for calling in i i don't know how
all those witnesses are making that happen but definitely an interesting thought and i think
there was other verses i kind of just on the fly thought of a few other verses i think kind of
corroborate the idea of heaven paying attention but we have a brendan in the cali let's see if
we can go to brendan first from texas that the or the promised land sorry brendan how's it going
how you doing good uh good evening hell good to hear from where you what part of texas you from
uh i'm in abilene trekkers i know where that's at so what's the question you got for us tonight
all right so well first of all i just want to say i never got the chance to to thank pastor
erinerson personally i got saved as many other people from the once they've always saved sermon
i just wanted to thank him for that um but my question uh is is there a way to tell the
difference between somebody who is demon possessed versus somebody who is reprimanded um and i guess
the reason why i had that question in my mind is because you know in the bible you see people who
are demon possessed who you know jesus has pity on and he you know relieves them of that evil spirit
and so you know there's a possibility for someone who's demon possessed to be saved but you know
obviously someone who's reprimanded can't be saved and so and then i also thought about well
you know i could see someone maybe using uh passages about people who are demon possessing
using that maybe like a backdoor way to discredit the reparate doctrine which i i believe in the
reparate doctrine just for transparency but i could see someone maybe trying to attack the
reparate doctrine in that way so i had that question in mind and was wondering if you
guys ever thought about that or if you have sermons uh that address that topic or can you
switch your thoughts well i i definitely talked about demon possession a lot when i preached
through the gospel of mark because it feels like the gospel of mark really just has a lot of
scripture about people being demon possessed and you know when it comes to the reprobate uh
obviously one of the major marks of a reprobate according to roman chapter one is that they're
burning in lust toward other men homosexuality is a sign that they've been given over to that
reprobate mind and i don't see that anywhere in scripture associated with being demon possessed
you know the demons aren't even that weird you know to do that that's the thought that came to
my mind too it's too gross for demons no i'm just kidding but honestly the bottom line is you know
we have a ton of scripture on people that are demon possessed people that are demon possessed
you see them you know cutting themselves throwing themselves in the fire throwing themselves in the
water writhing on the ground speaking with other voices that are not theirs and so forth but you
don't tend to see any kind of a sexual perversion being brought up with respect to demon possession
that that doesn't seem to be a motif you know as you read about this in places like the gospel of
mark so you know i think it's just two totally different subjects you know on the one hand you
have people who are possessed by demons and like you said they can be saved we have lots of examples
in the bible of people who are demon possessed and then they get saved you know i can't tell the
difference between someone who's demon possessed or just someone who's mentally ill sometimes
because obviously mental illness is out there it's real i mean there are people who just have
something broken in their brain chemical imbalance you know those type of things and you know they
act super weird and then other people are acting super weird because they're demon possessed and so
whenever i tell stories about when i you know think i handled someone who was demon possessed or
you know i will typically tell the story as you know hey i think this person may have been demon
possessed you know it's possible this person was demon possessed or they were probably demon possessed
because sometimes it can be difficult to differentiate between someone who's just
mentally ill you know and someone who's demon possessed but not only that you know when it
comes to the reprobate okay you know they could act totally normal they're not necessarily
cutting themselves throwing themselves on the ground foaming at the mouth you know doing all
these things they could act completely normal publicly but inside they're a rotten person who
hates God hates the Lord they're burning in lust toward all kinds of perverted things that no normal
man or woman would be attracted to their pedophiles or whatever on their in their heart
but you know a lot of times the reason why these people are so dangerous is because they are
fooling people into thinking that they're okay you know and a lot of these singers and actresses and
actors that are open reprobates but yet if we ran into them they don't seem like some demoniac
foaming at the mouth you know on the other hand we run into some people that are foaming at the
mouth like a demoniac you know and it's just two totally different subjects and so there are
sermons about reprobates there are sermons about demon possess and i could see how some people
could conflate these two or mix these two but you had a guy in the old testament you know as you
brought up people that are demon possessed god save you even have somebody who's straight
worshiping satan in the old testament who gets saved manasseh and you know he's doing human
sacrifice he's worshiping the devil and so you know even somebody who's literally you know oh
i'm a witch or whatever they may not necessarily be a reprobate as hard as that is to believe
it's you know it's out there so we don't always know who's a reprobate but you know when i see a
dude burning lust toward other dudes you know the reason that i would say that that's a sure sign
of a reprobate is because that there's no other explanation for why they would have such a strange
behavior because uh normal men are so repulsed by that yeah i i think those are great points
obviously some weirdo out there is going to be like well the book of enox is the angels made it
with you know the daughters of men but obviously that's you know stupid there's nothing in the
bible that indicates well even even but even even if they did say that even if they did say
that they were straight male it's still hetero because remember oh man the sodomites even make
the demons blush yeah i think so i think so yeah and i mean you know one thing that seems to be
common theme from a demon possession is they they're kind of trying to kill the host it seems like
it's like they're trying to destroy them so they're throwing themselves in the fire or
as soon as they go into the host of pigs they're just like violently going off of a cliff and trying
to kill themselves and so you know i think that a lot of the demon possession kind of evolves around
like destruction of the individual or maybe even supernatural ability like perhaps the guy with
legion has superhuman strength or something because it's like no man can bind him or
something like that whereas the evidence of a reprobate is someone that's like blaspheming
the holy spirit and being a fag which what's interesting is the people that had demon
possession whenever you ran across them like with jesus they're actually recognizing him as the
messiah they're like i know who thou art thou art the holy one of israel they're not even like
blasphemy and they're just like hey that's god right there or like the woman that was giving them
um you know gain in the book of acts i mean she's like saying positive things about them she's not
saying like which happened in the bahamas by the way well that's a weird story but yeah i mean again
i think when it comes to the reverberate doctrine it's pretty much kind of limited to you know
sodomites that are just open sodomites and people that are just the obvious like blasphemers and
teaching false doctrine but you know like even judas in the bible is under demon possession he
doesn't even appear different like they didn't just like they didn't see satan come into him
and all of a sudden he's like foaming at the mouth or doing something weird to the table like
he just leaves and then comes back and so i think it's even possible that someone's under the power
and influence of demons and you can't even tell like you don't even know like the anti-christ
himself is going to be under the power and influence of the devil but he's going to appear
like a superhuman man or a normal man like i don't think he's going to be foaming at the mouth and
doing weird stuff necessarily he's going to he's going to appear like he's in control in the
driver's seat when he's not even there so i agree with pastor Anderson it's really just kind of
completely different um symptoms of course these things could these things could overlap yeah the
reprobate could become demon possessed or whatever but there's still two totally separate issues
right what about schizophrenia is that always demon possession or is it always just a carnal
mental illness or a mix of both i think it's dangerous for us to make really like dogmatic
pronouncements about stuff like that just because we probably don't have enough experience with it
you know to really make those kind of judgments but i will tell you this that you know in the
time that i've been a pastor i've definitely dealt with people that that i firmly believe are saved
godly christians before they had these breakdowns they were afterward they were and and sometimes
there were even explanations for it like a family history you know well i've known two people
specifically who when they got their amalgam fillings taken out they had a nervous breakdown
and i mean we're talking about people that are totally normal but when they had their amalgam
fillings removed it was done in a wrong way because you know there's a way to take out the
amalgam fillings that's a safe way to do it and that's a really careful way to do it but if it's
not done properly they can get exposed to heavy metals and they can get poisoned and it's that
toxicity that makes them go crazy and so i mean we're talking about people that i that i knew
and had spoken to and had known for years and they're totally normal and then they just call
you on the phone and they're just completely out of their mind and i've known two people
that this happened to and then give it a few weeks and the stuff was out of their system
and they were totally normal that has nothing to do with demon possession you got poisoned
you know or for example if someone gets rabies or something right and they're going to be saying
all kinds of crazy things there are chemical imbalances out there you know as far as uh you
know these specific diagnoses and you know sometimes there's kind of a popular definition
of schizophrenia but then there's like what schizophrenia actually is because you know when
when i grew up hearing the word schizophrenia i just thought oh it's multiple personalities or
something you know and obviously on its face you know multiple personality disorder seems like
just a textbook demon possession because they're basically talking as a different character you
know but then other people other people could be labeled as a schizophrenic that are not
necessarily saying you know we are legion you know and you know you know steven isn't here right now
you know hey i want to talk to steven yeah steven's not here you know obviously in those kind of
situations you're like yeah okay this is demonic whatever so i i don't think we should necessarily
jump to that conclusion i think that unfortunately people who who literally have a physical problem
can sometimes just get labeled as demon possessed when it isn't true but let's face it demon
possession is real and so we don't want to label everyone who's acting crazy and acting weird as
demon possessed but at the same time we don't want to just say oh none of these people are demon
possessed how dare you say that anyone's demon possessed this is all mental illness because
let's face it a lot of these mental illnesses don't have any physical signs or manifestation
that they can point to and doctors can't explain what the problem is you know and again I would
look at it on a case-by-case basis and as a pastor you know I've had lots of examples not
just the amalgam fillings situations that I mentioned but lots of other situations
postpartum depression can get really radical and women can have a hormonal upheaval after giving
birth and I mean to the point where they are just there's no other word for it than that they just
go crazy literally crazy and again it's temporary other people have other chemical imbalances that
they deal with for the rest of their lives unfortunately yeah just being hungry you know
can really affect them too there comes a time when sometimes you know I point people to getting
professional help because it's beyond my knowledge or ability to help them and so you know we we
shouldn't have this all or nothing view that says this is all demon possession or no this is all a
chemical imbalance it's you know sometimes it is sometimes isn't because let's face it some people
in the bible were you know mute or something because they had a demon like they they were
deaf and dumb because it does that mean that deaf and dumb people are demon possessed no no you
know obviously those things could be but a lot of times there's just something physically wrong
with their mouth or physically wrong with their ears or something you know and so it you know we
don't want to just start labeling everyone who's damaged you know who has neurological damage or
mental illness as some kind of a demoniac you know but i think that the proof is in the pudding you
know if they're saying a bunch of weird demonic things then you know you could say okay this
person seems like they're demon possessed versus just normal person godly christian and then you
know they snap or whatever have a nervous breakdown you deal with it and then they're
back to normal or you get them on the right medication or whatever and look i'm not i'm not
necessarily condoning or condemning different medications that are out there because obviously
it's a huge subject and obviously big pharma has a lot of harmful drugs that they're putting on
people that are making them worse but then other people like if they don't get the drugs they're
going to like be murderous or suicidal or you know whatever and so again I think that in many ways
sometimes we should defer to other people that are more knowledgeable than us as pastors about
these things like we deal with the spiritual component but I think when things get certain
to certain radical levels we have to sometimes you know get medical help for people you know
people that are experts in things like postpartum depression you know you know poisoning and things
like that. Yeah just for clarity's sake because there are weirdos like salad bar out there that
think Christians can get demon possessed you know not none of us here believe in demon possession
after salvation so in Pastor Anderson's explanation here he's kind of pointing out how he believes
people that were saved experienced symptoms that sometimes people may label as demon possession as
an evidence of the fact that a safe person could go through these experience and they're clearly not
demon possessed so of course you know I've had grandparents that experienced Alzheimer's which
wow it's it's a really different person you know unfortunately it's sad to watch it's not because
of demon possession it's just general it's just their their mind is you know deteriorating and
and they're going through all kinds of issues obviously when it comes to even schizophrenia
specifically i think that the imagination is wild and it can really go to some crazy places
especially as pastor anderson point out if they're on drugs or alcohol you know the bible talks
about it being a spirit in a sense or you said in modern culture it talks about it being a spirit
and we talk about demons it's a spirit and it's kind of funny after the same word because if you
drive by it says like spirits you know and that's where you get liquor but it if you drink a lot of
alcohol you can sometimes exhibit characteristics like if you were demon possessed or if you're
taking drugs or these kind of illicit things that are offered they can cause you to do crazy things.
I know people take Xanax and some of these other things have like just woken up in the middle of
their sleep and just like killed people or said and done weird things and I don't believe that
was necessarily a result of demon possession could be but again I agree that we need to just be
careful how we label these things. We have one more caller and then we'll kind of wrap up here.
We have Callie from Spokane. It's going to be our last caller of the evening. Thanks so much
for being patient with us. Can you hear us Callie? Yeah, I can hear you. Where are you from? I'm from
Spokane, Washington. And I had a question. And I had a question about Corinthians chapter 11. And
10 verse 10 for this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because the angels can you like
shed some some light on it about the woman to have power on her head because of the angels.
It's a classic final question for the q&a. Such a class because we have no idea or at least I have
no idea what that means. And you know, of course, there are all kinds of wild explanations that
people have. Folks just don't believe in the weird like, you know, Nephilim space demons coming down
and you know, you know, sleeping with people and so forth. But you know, there are a lot of weird
explanations out there. I know that those weird explanations are false. But as far as what this
scripture actually means, you know, I don't know for sure. You know, obviously, I could guess and
say, you know, she's supposed to have power on her head, meaning that she's supposed to have authority
or someone over her in that sense. But what does that have to do with the angels because of the
angels? You know what, this is kind of like the proverbial verse that you'll bring up like, yeah,
there's just some things in the Bible that we'll just never understand. Like 1 Corinthians 11, 10.
I mean, that's my take on it. I don't know if Pastor Shelley has solved the mysteries of the
universe here or what. Well, here's the thing, even if I just got up and said, like, I know
the exact answer to this question, there's no way to prove that I'm right. So it's kind of like a,
it's kind of like a vain jangling to be dogmatic about it. I think obviously the context, it's,
it's clear women should have long hair and they're supposed to have a husband ruling over them.
And so I think as long as you're, if you have an interpretation that fits within that context,
and it doesn't contradict any other part of the Bible, then might as well embrace it.
You know, I mean, obviously I've heard some people try to say it just means that the woman
needs to be subject to the man because Eve was tempted by the devil. And so that's the reason why
women are, they're more easily tricked by the devil. But if she covers her head with a tinfoil
hat, then demons can't get in. Right. I think that's the right interpretation.
You know, so the head covering, that's why every good head covering should be foil lined.
This is some good Alex Jones doctrine here. This show gets really entertaining once we hit
11 o'clock. It's been a late show, but you know, and honestly, I appreciate all of our viewers
because we actually had a lot of good questions even from the chat and even people that emailed
in. So maybe we'll keep, we'll hang on to them if we do another call in show, or maybe we can
address some of the better questions later. But I did want to prioritize call ins. So I,
and we had a lot of people, we had over 400 people on the show watching live. We should
have been on the front page of Rumble, but I guess they want to elevate podcasts with seven viewers,
as opposed to us having almost 500. I don't know. I don't know if there's a non-Baptist bias going
on there or something like that. But we really had a lot of people tuning in. I say not unto
you seven viewers, but 70 times seven viewers. That's what we had. We were still almost going
to eclipse that, but okay, sure. You're 490, but whatever. No, this is a great show. Again,
it's kind of fun to just bring in lots of crazy questions and people. I really appreciate all the
people that called in and we're thankful of Pastor Anderson and they got saved through his ministry.
It's cool to hear those stories and those testimonials. I appreciate people watching
the show. You can support the show. You can even join us on Locals. There's a join button.
You can subscribe. You need to check out our podcast on Thursday night when we have a new
debate with Pastor Jimenez and myself against Adam King and Brian Stinson on the Red Heifer.
We didn't answer the show tonight on what the Red Heifer is or all the deal. You got to come
two days from now. You got to come Thursday and then you'll learn all the secrets about the
Red Heifer and the color from Australia. Yeah, there you go. You got to check it out. But for
Pastor Anderson, I know you could plug The Preaching. Is there any other things you want
to plug while we're wrapping up on the show? No, just the preaching.com, Faithful Word Baptist
Church, Tempe, Arizona. That's it. That's great. Revelation series. You got to get the Daniel 70th
week chart. Was there any other plugs for him? Speaking of Daniel, the next time we'll have
Pastor Anderson on, we'll be previewing the Daniel series. Yep, episode one. Which is coming out
as soon as the Baptist bias season three is over. We'll be rolling into the Daniel series. Yeah,
our 10th episode, we're going to have Pastor Anderson back on as a guest. We're just going
to do the show for one hour, and then immediately after the show, we're going to be on the same
stream airing the Daniel series, episode one. This is a long time coming. I mean, this might
be the actual 70th week. This might be the seven year project from when Pastor Anderson preached to
when we actually aired this. I mean, we're in the sixth year, right? Because you preached this in
2018, I believe. You know, I'd have to look it up to see when I actually preached it because it was,
let me look it up right now. Yeah, so it looks like it was in 2018. So, and it was actually like
March and April of 2018. So, so we're in the sixth hour over. It's over six years. So we're
actually in the seventh year. Oh man. So it's, it's, it's been over six years ago. So thankfully,
you know, I, I wasn't like tying things into current events that don't matter anymore.
You know, I, I think the sermon is timeless enough. Oh, it's very relevant. It's all relevant. Yeah.
Yeah. I don't think it's going to be that different. I mean, I was able to basically,
as you're preaching and making practical application in 2018, I was able to put B roll
up of articles from 2023 and it fits seamlessly. So no problem. Well, that's what I was talking
about. You know, I foresaw those things. Oh, that's what it was. Okay.
I was talking about those articles. Yeah. I saw those things in a vision. Oh man.
You saw the writing from 2023. That's, that's cool. Even if it's anachronistic, that's,
it's better to, you know, bring it up to date like that. That's cool. Yeah. We're excited to
release the project. We've been working on it for a little while. And obviously, you know,
we don't always have the same platform we've had before, but we're trying to build here on rumble
for now. And that's where you want to, you want to tune in to the Baptist bias, Tuesday nights,
8 p.m. Because we're going to actually release every single episode here on the Baptist bias,
8 p.m. on Tuesdays. We're going to do one episode a week while we're kind of in between seasons. And
then God willing, we'll come back. But you want to tune in. We also have other streams and other
shows that we do from time to time. But you also want to check out the Baptist bias Tuesdays
at 8 p.m. Thanks so much for joining us this evening. Again, you can find us on rumble. You
can find me on Twitter at band pastor. I think you can also find that Ben had been the Baptist
on Twitter now. He finally came out already. Ben 316. Oh, Baptist Ben 316. Perfect. And also
we've got a lot of other ways you can find us on podcasts, Spotify, Apple. Check out just
Baptist bias dot com. That's where you can check us out. If you want to join our locals,
you can support us. I'm not necessarily planning on putting any paid only content out there. I
don't really necessarily envision doing that at any time, but it's just a way to help the show.
There's some perks I think that come with it. Also, you can join our email list at
baptisbias.com/join. This is you can join our mailing list so we can reach you no matter what
happens. And I think that's, that's pretty, I'm trying to remember all of our plugs. Thursday
night, you want to watch the, the debate. What else do we have been? I think that's pretty much
the gist of it. You left no plug unturned. No, I wanted to make sure because next, next week we,
we have guests for all of our shows. Next week, we're going to have brother Jordan now on. Oh,
I didn't realize we were talking about fighting. He's actually a professional fighter. He was
involved in the Bellator promotion Bellator league. I don't know what the right word is,
I guess, for boxing, but promotion, promotion. There you go. It's the promotion. His league,
the wrong word. It's not the right term. I don't think. Okay. Yeah. This is like you talking about
golf or something. So, but no, we're excited to have brother Jordan on. He's going to be in studio
third chair. You don't want to miss it. I'm excited. Check out the debate this Thursday.
Make sure you tune in Tuesday next week, 8 p.m. And we've got some other great guests coming down
the pike for this season. Again, everybody's got a perspective out there, but you know what?
You need to get the Baptist bias.