As I moved from my...
Good morning from the West Coast. We're starting our show of the Baptist bias. We've got a couple special guests this morning
We've got pastor Steven Anderson
Pastor Aaron Thompson and I know you've already heard pastor Anderson from this conference, but it's a repeat
We got him on double speed or something like that
And of course I'm here with my co-host been the Baptist. How's it going been great?
This has been an epic conference, and I'm looking forward to a high-energy podcast this morning
Super high energy. Of course, we've got Pastor Steven Anderson. How's it going?
You stuck around for more than like 24 hours for a conference. Yeah, how's it going?
The only reason I did that is because my wife is out of town anyway.
So I figured if my wife's traveling, there's not going to be any like special meals or anything that I'm going to miss.
Because usually, these conferences, I just kind of get in, preach, get out.
But this time, I stayed for the pretty much the whole thing.
Yeah.
You don't have to rush home and get things back in order.
Yeah.
I might as well eat at restaurants here than to just eat, like, cereal three meals a day at home.
What cereal are we on now?
I mean, probably Frosted Mini Wheats is my favorite right now.
Are we talking about, like, name, brand?
No, usually we get, like, the Sprouts version,
Trader Joe's version, actually.
Trader Joe's version of Frosted Mini Wheats.
This is the King James?
Yeah.
I mean, the King James Bible Conference,
we got to get the legit Frosted Mini Wheats out here.
It's kind of the New King James, but, yeah.
It's kind of the New King. Okay.
And we've also got, of course, the host of this special conference,
Pastor Aaron Thompson himself.
He's such a giant.
You know, we have to get a special camera
just to put him on the show.
But no, I mean, the vault here is epic.
This has been an epic conference.
Sher Foundation Church, Sher Foundation Baptist Church
is such a great church.
You were moving Baptist from the name of the church.
Sorry, sorry, no.
To be more like great,
secret sensitive. Great spirit, great people.
Thanks for hosting this conference.
Thanks for coming on the show.
What have you thought of the conference so far?
Oh, it's not even on.
We didn't even want him to be on the show, folks.
We're trying to be unimped.
Well, it's sort of like when you give your younger sibling
a game controller that's not plugged in,
and tell them that they're playing along with you.
Round one, fight!
All right
What do you think of the conference so far? It's been great so far. I really appreciate you guys coming and you know
I'll bring in the Baptist bias roadshow here and
Pastor answering preach a great sermon on Friday night and Thursday night
I'm here tonight. Yeah, he was a pastor. He was last night. That was a great sermon, too
I asked him specifically to preach a sermon on that topic. So I was really glad. Why did you do that?
Like why would you pick him over other people? I don't know
My mic's still not working
The mic's broken. You know, you know, here's the thing like I I felt like past media had kind of a difficult assignment
He did because you know, you're preaching to an English-speaking crowd about the Spanish Bible issue
And I feel like maybe it could be a tendency for people to tune out and think like oh, this doesn't really apply to me
I don't really know anything about this. I'm not interested
But I felt like he executed really well because I told him before and I was like yeah
It's gonna be a tough one, but you know, I think you could pull it off, but
I thought it was even very entertaining,
even just for an English speaker.
Like, he didn't lose people by getting too deep
into the Spanish or anything, so.
Yeah, it was really good, actually.
And it was a tough assignment.
I was thinking that while he was preaching,
I was like, man, I really gave him a hard assignment.
But I thought it was an important issue,
because, I mean, we live in North America,
there's a lot of Spanish-speaking people here,
and we're closest to Spanish-speaking nations.
Yeah, and that issue has been something
that I've been passionate about, like,
all the way back to when I first learned about the King James, because when I actually became King
James only at around age 16, 17, then at that same time is when I started getting passionate
about foreign languages. So I was learning Spanish at that time, and I started reading a 1960 version
because that was literally the only Spanish Bible that you could buy at the Christian bookstore.
the internet wasn't you didn't buy things on the internet in those days like you actually
physically went to a store and bought things and so the christian bookstore had like a you know
a nueva version international or whatever and then they had the reign of law in 1960
so i was reading that thing and just right away it was obvious to me that it had serious problems so
that's why like i don't buy this thing of like
Oh, you know, I thought it was the King James equivalent, man, you know, I didn't really notice that it was that different or whatever.
Anybody who says that is just lying in my opinion because, like, I wasn't even that good at Spanish.
I'm, like, learning Spanish, and it was, and I'm not talking about little pedantic things, splitting hairs.
Like, one thing I like to bring up...
to these people that try to claim it's identical is like Revelation 22 14, King James says,
blessed are they that do his commandments. And then the reign of Lara basically says,
blessed are they that wash their robes. Like there's no way you can say that that's the same text.
You know, it's just different. And you know, there are other differences, obviously, that
dramatically affect doctrine like 1 Peter 2 2. And obviously, I noticed hell being taken out and
all these different things. So I noticed right away, there was something wrong with it.
But then one day I was at the thrift store, and I saw just this really ancient Spanish New Testament
And I grabbed it and started looking up like every problem that I knew about in the modern versions and
You know, and it was just right every time
And I was just like whoa this Spanish Bible is right on and it was a 1602
Rain of Valera. It was the what what someone's called the Rain of Valera Antigua
the old reign of Lara and it was just dead on and I was super excited like wow
I finally have a Spanish Bible that's it but you could not buy it anywhere
I went to the Christian bookstore and they could not even order a 1602 they
could not even get you one they could get you a 1909
and it was literally it took over a month to be delivered because it was like
you remember the days of like four to six weeks for delivery
I do.
Maybe you guys don't, but you do.
These young boys don't know, yeah.
Like, you'd buy a Lego set, and it would show up, like,
a month and a half later.
You don't have to mail order stuff a lot out of magazines that you'd get sent and things like that.
Yeah, so actually the first time, and I know I've already told the story before, but I'm going to tell it again,
the first time I ever met Pastor Jimenez was, you know, Pastor Jimenez's family started going to my church,
Regency Baptist Church, and he was just a teenager. I was like 20, he was 16, and it was King James Bible month,
on the Spanish Bibles and I saw that in 1960 and this is like something I was really into at the
time and so Pastor Nichols is up there preaching and he's going through differences in the versions
and he got to one that I personally knew was wrong in the 1960 and Pastor Jimenez was sitting behind
And I'd never even said hi to him,
never even talked to him, never even met him.
I leaned back in my chair and said,
like, that's not what your Bible says, is it?
Because I saw he had a parallel Spanish Bible
and he was frowning at it.
Because he was seeing that it was wrong.
He was frowning at it.
And I just leaned back and said, not what your says, is it?
So then he just didn't say anything
because it was like in the middle of church that I said this.
And then he came up to me a week later and he's like, hey.
I just wanted to say what you said to me last week.
He's like, you're right, you know, like I agree with you.
There's something wrong with the Spanish Bible and stuff.
And then we got to talking and yeah, the rest is history,
but this is kind of funny.
You know, your story kind of reminds me of Josiah's timeline
because they're like going and just finding this book.
And it's like, what's going on in this book?
It's like kind of been lost.
It's like buried.
It's like, you got to get the dust off of it
or something like that.
And kind of revitalize it.
2010, Raina Valera Gomez is kind of an attempt to revitalize this Antigua.
translation, is that kind of a good way to articulate it?
Yeah, and here's the thing, like, and this is where there was a little bit of confusion
last night with one of the questions in the Q&A, because somebody was saying,
oh, 1602, isn't that a Ruckmanite translation? And what's happening is people are conflating
two things. There's the 1602 that came out in the year 1602. How could that be a Ruckmanite
translation when Ruckman wasn't even a gleam in his father's eye at that time?
Obviously this was hundreds of years ago translated from the original Hebrew and Greek, okay, but what it is is there's a modern
thing called the 1602 Puertificada, the purified 1602, and that is a Ruckmanite-produced version.
I'm not saying it's terrible or bad. The criticisms that I've mainly heard about it are just the
style because it tries so hard to like slavishly follow the King James version English translation
that it ends up like, you know, sacrificing the quality of the Spanish.
to do that when it comes to style.
Sounds like gringo Spanish, or Google Translate,
or things like this.
And again, it's hard for me to really discern that,
because even though I speak Spanish,
and I can fluently discuss the Bible,
or give the gospel, or whatever.
It's not as natural.
I'm not going to be able to judge the style of Spanish,
because I'm not an expert at all in Spanish.
And so the thing is that when I say I like the 1602,
I'm talking about the 1602.
Right. The real one, the original one. And then I like the Gomez.
And here's that really one of the big differences between the two
is that the reign of Lara Gomez is written in modern Spanish.
So it's a more modern Spanish, whereas the 1602 is a more archaic Spanish.
But it's really, I would say that the difference between the way you speak
Spanish today and the 1602, it's just like the King James.
You know, it's it's not like it's not to our cake, right? And in fact, I would say the 1602 is probably even less
Archaic than the King James if anything well
I think I think of course, you know at the Q&A people were just really confused about this and we're hanging on every word
And you was so thankful that you stepped in and really made that I'm pretty sure you're making fun of me right now
But I do think people were confused. No, of course you're right and
It's good to be right.
So of course, Pastor Mehear really appreciated you
correcting that.
And so we appreciate that too.
Obviously, we all have different journeys
to how we got to the King James Bible.
Pastor Thompson, you didn't really grow up on this,
I don't believe.
Can you kind of give us an idea of like,
how did you even come across this issue
on the King James Bible?
Why did it become important to you?
When did you kind of, I guess, switch mentally
to just saying, not only is this a good translation,
I think this is it.
well my story is a little bit different I became King James only before I was
even saved so I actually read one of those chick
comic books, which I'm not promoting chick at all, but they do tell the story of you know
The Alexandria and text in this comic book called sabotage
I'm definitely not you know the the message at the end is retarded. Of course, it's lordship salvation all that
So I didn't even read that part of it
I didn't care about that part of it
But the part that tells how the modern text Alexandria and all that stuff
I read that comic and I wasn't saved actually at the time was working for all Jehovah's Witness roofing company
And I was into, like, astrology and all this other stuff.
Are you sure that you're saved?
Yeah, I'm sure.
But I was also being given can't-hoven tapes at the time.
So, and this is, like, my wife's family was in an independent Baptist church
and they were giving me all this stuff because I was, like, you know...
Just trying to learn.
...totally lost, you know.
So...
So they were just trying to bring you over to be in a Baptist, hopefully get you saved.
Yes.
Yeah, and so like they were giving me this kind of stuff.
And I was kind of just, I was just, you know.
When was your life?
This is in 1999, 2000.
So right before I got saved, it was really close.
Is this like your mid 30s or something?
I was 25.
You're 25, I'm sorry.
Yeah.
So I only know that because, you know, 25 at 2000.
So anyway, so yeah, I end up, so I remember praying in my room.
You know after I read that it was some right at that time
I just said Lord if you're or I just said God if you're real
Then just reveal the truth to me because I was just really confused about everything
I knew the Jehovah's Witnesses were wack and they were trying to get me to go to their Bible studies and stuff
And I was just but when I read that comic
I became King James only.
I mean, that's the only way I can explain it.
And then I had watched some of the Kent Hoven stuff,
and he's really super into King James and all that.
And he was Baptist at the time.
He wasn't as weird as he is now, obviously.
But there was still rabbit trail stuff that I didn't,
you know, I didn't understand and whatever.
But some of the evolution things,
you know, really resonated with me.
I think a lot of people have your same testimony
because I've had tons of people come through my church
over the years where they...
Kent Hoven was sort of a gateway drug that got them on the King James, got them being Baptist,
but they didn't get salvation from Kent Hoven. Like they didn't understand the
gospel from his little like super short gospel presentation at the end of his videos,
and then they talk about getting saved later after either, you know, some soul winner preached to them
I was kind of a truther before truthers existed because I was already against the New World Order and vaccines and all that kind of stuff, circumcision.
You were a truther before it was cool.
I was a truther before the truth, you know, so I hated George Bush. I actually voted for Al Gore just because I hated George Bush.
So I just didn't understand politics at the time.
I wasn't saved, of course, when I voted for him,
because that was earlier than your list.
Well, you lost, so.
Yeah, I did.
So by a few votes or whatever.
A few hanging chads or whatever.
A few battles I got eaten or something.
So at that time, I met this guy at this Chinese food
restaurant on my birthday during that time period.
And then I went to four funerals.
And between the time I got saved.
So I feel like all that stuff and me
going to those funerals and seeing, like, hey, what have you
I was just thinking, like, where am I going to go when I die?
And the last one I went to is one of my really close friends
died fighting my brother in the street.
They were both drunk.
And a car came by and hit him and killed him.
Oh, man.
You're listening to your brother?
Well, it didn't kill my brother.
They were fighting in the street.
Seeing someone's fighting your brother.
Well, my brother was fighting my friend in the street.
So the friend died.
The friend died.
A car came by and hit him.
Killed him. He died in my cousin's arms and we went to this. It was a huge funeral and
Huge entourage of people cops. I mean it was it was like we had a you know big
It was just a big funeral, but he was a tribal member of the Grand Ron Indian tribe
Which is a coastal tribe over here in Oregon, but
When that happened the
The funeral the guy was doing the funeral the shaman or whatever. He was just like he was preaching Jesus
But at the same time he was also preaching like
Grandpa he's with grandpa moon fishing in the in the moon or what I don't know some weird
I was just like really confused. He's cursing everybody that drank alcohol or did drugs for the next seven days
And I was just like I talked to him afterwards. I said well, you know, what what do I have to do to be saved?
He was just telling me all this mumbo jumbo, and I just didn't get it.
So I did believe in King James only.
I went to a Jehovah's Witness Bible study one time,
and I was just trying to crush him.
And I was like, your Bible's whack, you know?
So I was just without knowledge.
I had this giant family King James Bible
that was carrying around on the trunk of my car,
and I was reading it, and I didn't understand it.
And uh.
I the guy that I've met at the Chinese restaurant on my birthday
He tried to just witness to me and I shut him down immediately and I said I don't want to hear this
But he took I took his card and he said well if you ever have any questions, just call and
I lost his card in between that time and then six months later like a month after my friend died
I saw him at another Chinese food restaurant, I like Chinese food
But I mean I've met a minute
I saw him in another Chinese food restaurant and I had all these questions and I and I was really close to being saved and
I walked in I saw him I said dude. I've been looking for you everywhere and it's like I got all these questions
There's like a whole restaurant full of people and he's like do you believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God?
And I just you know, I just didn't care like who was around. I just said yes, I do and so let's go outside
We went outside and I said, he said, do you have a Bible?
I said, yeah, I have a King James Bible.
And so I walked to my car, grabbed out a big giant family
Bible, had a picture of Jesus with long hair on the front of it.
I remember that.
He just took me through the Romans road.
And he said, it's time to call upon the name of the Lord.
And then he said, bow down with me
and let's call upon the name of the Lord.
And he just led me in the sinner's prayer.
That's an awesome story.
Yeah.
I don't know if this is the first or the second, but he says Pastor in Thompson has a really interesting testimony. So
Yeah, so that I mean
It's like maybe God knew that if this is the way I'm interpreting your testimony,
is like maybe God knew that if you would have had the card and not lost it,
and then you would have contacted him,
maybe the timing wasn't right, you wouldn't have been as open or receptive.
It was like first your friend had died,
and you had to like build up the craving or the hunger so that when you found him,
you're like, I've been looking everywhere for you.
Then you're just like mega receptive.
Yeah.
to what he had to say.
Yeah, he built up the hunger for Chinese food.
Well, you're hungry an hour later after you eat Chinese food.
Yeah, that's true.
I didn't even get Chinese food afterwards I left, but I mean.
Well, you got saved.
Yeah, I did.
So you got to fill that hunger, that real hunger that I needed.
That's a really cool story.
I was King James only already before.
So like, and I was just carrying that Bible around
with me everywhere, reading it.
And then I started to be able to understand it.
So it was like seeds being planted,
and then you needed, you're like the Ethiopian eunuch.
I was a hard case, though.
And then you needed Philip to come along and guide you.
Yeah, he definitely did.
How weird is that, though, like a different place?
You know, and then, yeah, that's funny.
I mean, I just, that's a divine appointment of my best.
What about you, Ben?
Let's give an idea, like, how did you become King James only?
What does this journey look like?
First of all, you've burned with one in the Middle East,
or how does that work?
It didn't happen in the Middle East.
OK.
I appreciate having to follow that so thank you very much
That's like something out of I don't want to talk next
It's like it's like mine's like I'm eating chips off my chest in my bedroom watching YouTube
But I'll try to make it interesting and it won't be it won't be long-winded the gist of it is I do think I was the exact target
audience of New World Order Bible versions and
You know, obviously, I'm going to be a really in the 9-11
Not specifically, but obviously I'm a newer Christian compared to everyone on the room,
so this happened maybe in the room I should say.
This happened maybe eight or nine years ago, but I wanted to find a documentary about the New World Order
and what the Bible has to say about it.
And so I stumble on New World Order Bible versions thinking that was the subject matter of the film,
not that it was about the Bible, but I end up watching it.
And as I go through the thing, and I get to the end, I'm thinking like, I had no idea that this was even an issue.
I had no idea that the modern Bible versions changed doctrine, removed verses, etc.
Were you already saved?
I was already saved at the time.
But the thing is, is that, you know, I knew that there were different versions.
I liked the King James and had respect for it.
It's just that I had no clue that there were all these other problems.
So, after watching that film,
That's all I really needed to hear is watching so new world
I will say new world order Bible versions is what converted me over to King James only is
Initially because I had an interest in conspiracy theories. So I like that testimony, too
So you're basically you're basically like searching for
Home movies family movies. You're looking for 9-11 footage
And we ended up finding.
Because his relatives were behind 9-11?
Is that what you're applying?
I mean, they're all cousins or something like that, I think.
There were allegedly Lebanese on the aircraft, so, you know.
I mean, that's what he's latching on to.
But of course, I had nothing to do with it.
I was trying to find the photo album of the passport
that survived, and so.
Yeah, I was a little suspicious that the photo album
of your fifth birthday survived the plane crash.
When everything else went up in a ball of fire,
except just the passport and the black box.
I mean, that's just you drawing conclusions.
No, I really don't.
Well, it's better than having your family members be the ones
that were dancing on that day.
Absolutely.
Celebrating.
I'd rather than be on the winning side.
I agree with that.
So how did you get saved, Ben?
Again, it's not really a dramatic story.
I'm flipping through YouTube, eating chips on my chest,
and I happen to stumble on one saved, always saved
by Pastor Anderson.
The thing is, is that.
I'd never heard it explained to me that clearly and specifically the way you explained John 647 the
present tense possession of everlasting life that is all I needed to hear and once I once I heard that I
realized that I wasn't saved that I was believing in a work salvation and and
You know, I called on the name of the Lord right then and there and then I had my I called my wife
Which was my girlfriend at the time and I said you need to listen to this sermon because for months
I had been wondering how works come into play
Yeah, and and so I had her listen to that sermon
She prayed and got saved as well, and then as they say the rest was she at spiritually before that are like
What was her background? She was pretty much what when I met her
Actually, she wasn't she didn't even believe in God at all. She was more agnostic and she was sort of into
this like she was really into yoga and kind of this new age stuff yeah but she was open to
Christianity it's like she was against it and actually what's interesting about her is I kind
of feel like she was she had adopted a bunch of new we would call like new IFB lifestyle
practical living before even understanding the Bible at all well just because they're kind of
like common sense things about just how to live your life the law of God kind of written in our
a lot of the thing about I mean I even had a friend who's just total agnostic
wife's a total agnostic they don't even believe in God at all
and they're just like yeah the way we run our home like the husband's in total
authority and and like and I'm the head of the
house and everything and there is nothing to do with religion
they just found that to work because it's just the natural order of
humans that's exactly what I'm describing law basically
yeah yeah my only question is the you actually believe you have to call upon
Yes, I do. Yes, I do. Yep. Absolutely. Absolutely. Well, and that's my testimony. I called on the name of the Lord
You're not gonna hear some weird garbage on the podcast today where somebody's like, well, you know, I never called I never prayed
Like what's that? That's kind of a red flag. Maybe you're never saved. Yeah
I don't know that my testimony is is super exciting. It's definitely not as cool as Pastor Thompson's
I went to a non-denom church rock. It was called rock
a church on the rock, it was in the Dallas, Fort Worth area.
So I lived in Keller for a little bit
and just every single week, every single Sunday,
after basically the kid sermon,
they would give you an invitation to basically come down
and call upon the name of the Lord to be saved.
And they would give the whole gospel of Jesus
every single time, probably give a few different verses.
And I just remember a couple of weeks thinking like,
yeah,
I think this stuff is true, but I was kind of nervous about wanting to just make that decision.
And then I just remember like a few weeks in a row and then deciding, you know what,
I want to have the courage to kind of walk down, pray, and just decide to trust in Jesus Christ
to get saved. And I just remember that exact same day though, I went home and I tried to get my
And we didn't have an alley or anything, so our fence was just sharing the basically property line.
Went over there, and I tried to explain to both of them how to be saved the best I could at five years old,
not even a Bible in my hand, and one of them kind of scoffed and like went inside, and the other one was like,
I want to be saved, please help me."
And I tried to pray with him and tried to get him saved.
Of course, I don't know how effective that is,
but just a five-year-old mind,
I was just trying to do the best that I can.
When the other one came back out,
because they were Casey and Stacey,
that was the names of the twins,
and we just started making fun of the other guy.
We were just like, you're going to hell and whatever.
And then here's the thing,
by making fun of him relentlessly,
he ended up saying, okay, I want to get saved too.
And so it was like others saved with fear,
so we were just making fun of him
that he was gonna die and go to hell.
And yeah, and so like he basically ended up wanting
to get saved, and again, I don't,
these kids were raised in just a very like agnostic
at best home, like they weren't Christian at all,
they didn't go to church, they didn't know anything,
but I remember looking them up like decades later
and both of them go to a Christian church
and they're like involved in Christianity,
so like to me, maybe at worst case scenario,
a seed was planted with these petipi.
Now, as far as which Bible to use, I grew up on the New King James Bible, and the church that I went to was New King James only, if you can even believe that.
It was really kind of a unique position, but basically our pastor would always explain it, he would always bring it up, he'd say the other versions aren't as reliable for doctrine, and he's like the King James is what's reliable for doctrine.
But because of the new King James being just a little bit easier to understand, we want to use the new King James.
So he was trying to make it seem like they were bridging this gap between the respectability, tradition, authenticity and integrity actually of King James,
but then just saying it's a little bit, you know, cleaned up and he was acting like it's the same.
And so that's just kind of what I use.
That's what I read probably primarily.
Our church, all our church had to use New King James.
Every version of the screen was New King James.
Like it was just locked in.
And so that's the environment I grew up in.
But I just remember certain moments in my life
kind of wondering like what's going on.
Because I remember an ad on television one time
and it said, for the love of money is the root of all evil.
And I remember thinking like,
that's not what the Bible says.
Because I'm reading my Bible like all the time.
But I'm reading the New King James.
And the New King James says,
and it's like a root of many kinds.
It's a root of all kinds of evil.
And so like I look it up and I'm like,
oh man, they messed up the Bible.
Of course they would do this,
but it's actually that was the legit one.
But again, I think why that's just that it's a it's an ad on the television screen. Yeah
But I think why it just like stuck with me is because it was right and it just kind of like it just like stuck in my mind
And it bothered you like maybe mind-boggling me and and again, I didn't have this resolve
I didn't resolve this but then just of course later, you know in my life
I I was in church and I kind of had this attitude that I'm like
I know a lot, and I'm a Christian, and I have a lot of knowledge, but then I started, like,
just being honest with myself and saying, you know, I don't think I really understand anything.
So I started researching a lot. I found all kinds of different preachers.
And actually the one that kind of inspired me to learn a lot was Ken Ham.
So Ken Ham was doing a debate against Bill Nye on creationism, and I'd never heard about this.
I remember that debate. And like, they advertised it a year before it even happened.
It was a big deal. And I was just really into it. And then the debate was just like,
to me, it was just like a total flop. I hated it. I felt like all of the opening statements,
the opening statements on both sides were pretty good.
And then the entire rest of the time,
they just didn't respond to each other
and just talk past each other.
They just had their prepared talking point.
They just had their little, so like the first 20 minutes
from each side made sense, and then there's just like,
they didn't respond, they didn't address anything,
and the debate just went nowhere.
That was my take on it.
And I think that Bill Nye gave him plenty
of opportunity to just get smashed.
Like he should have been smashing Bill Nye
on so many things that he said,
but before this even happened,
I kind of like watched a lot of Ken Ham videos
and I saw people saying, Ken Hovind's better.
And so I just started watching a lot of Kent Hoven debates, and I agreed, I thought he was a lot better communicator, better debating at least.
And he made a lot of sense, but he would always advocate the King James Bible, and finally, I watched a video he made, it was like 17 minutes, and he just showed a lot of comparisons.
And, you know, a lot of the comparisons stuck out to me. One that stuck out to me was just that it says,
Or, I'm sorry, that's what the King James says, but then the modern versions just don't have that.
And that just kind of triggered me to think like,
wow, I just think the King James is right.
Because I always believed the Bible was right.
I always believed it's God's Word.
Two that are different can't be the same in this, you know, this many erred places.
And so I just immediately became King James only.
But I had a hard time, like, understanding how to articulate this, explain to my family.
I thought everyone was going to be excited about King James' onlyism when I...
like learned this truth and I found so much resistance. So many people were like angry about
me having this viewpoint and they had an attitude about it and I so as researching try to figure
this out and there's this video is like in response to James White in response to Sam Gipp.
And it was like the worst video quality I've ever seen.
This guy that's like standing behind this pale wall
with like a drawing on the back and it was like ghetto
and I was thinking like, what in the world is this?
But the video content was epic.
It was an amazing video.
And this guy's like explaining how James White
is mispronouncing several words in the King James
to try and make it seem like the King James is archaic.
Like instead of saying a do, he says a do.
And there's there's several other examples, but and this other this person also quoted Beowulf
Just kind of show how old English is actually or say this is Middle English, right?
Beowulf is Middle English. No, Beowulf's Old English. It is a lot way garden
He guard dog home field cutting a through me a fruit on who the afterling is Ellen from it on off
Shield she fakes she's in a thread to morning. Oh my all right. I'm not gonna. That was the exact
You just got the video folks
It looks a lot better though, and so this was the guy in the video and that was just an eye-opening experience
because you hear old English, old English, and this is what people think.
They think of a Mexican truck with the name on the back, and so they don't understand that old English
is like actually a completely different sounding language.
It is a dramatically different language.
It's like virtually almost a different language.
Yeah, and what's funny is that at university
a lot of graduate students would sign up for Old English to fulfill their foreign language requirement
because they're like oh I'm so scared of any foreign language oh Old English fulfills it
let's go and then they get there and realize like it's actually pretty hard like it's probably
harder than it would have been to do some Spanish or something yeah for sure and and so um what's
video, I had memorized the prologue of Beowulf, but I didn't understand it at the time because
I hadn't really studied and delved into old English.
Since then, I've actually studied, delved into old English, and read the whole Beowulf
cover to cover in old English.
But what's interesting is that a lot of people don't realize, old English is basically modern
Icelandic.
Or I'm sorry. Good night. I just screwed that up. Now. I sound like an idiot old Norse is modern Icelandic
So I studied old Norse and old English old Norse is identical almost a modern Icelandic like 90% and then old Norse and
Old English are real similar
So like yeah, I screwed that up. I'm sorry. That was a stupid thing just delete that whole part
But anyway, I studied both and I'm I conflated them for a second in my mind
But old English is more like a Scandinavian language,
is what I'm trying to say, than it is like modern English.
And it's like, like Scandinavians would probably
have an easier time understanding it,
because it's totally Germanic.
And then what happened is in 1066,
you have William the Conqueror, who's from France,
conquered England.
And so that old English, which was totally like Germanic,
basically
He conquered it and then so they're ruled over by French people for like a hundred years and they developed like this hybrid
almost where like the French and the Old English mixed and then that became Middle English and
Then so Middle English is like Chaucer
Right like Canterbury tails and stuff like that. That's called and it's kind of like it really is kind of in between them a
Middle ground because you kind of can pick out words that are pretty familiar
You're gonna be able to easily understand and then some are a little bit harder
But if you kind of study it sometimes you can kind of eek it out, but again middle English is still
Yeah
So like if you're if you're like leap from you're really if you're like really good at English and really good with
Languages and kind of have an ear for language if somebody
hands you middle English, like for example, the Canterbury Tales, you can figure out like
90 some percent of it, but it's hard though, it's challenging, like it's pretty different.
Whereas old English, if you hand old English to somebody who hasn't studied old English,
then they're not going to understand a single.
Word of it virtually like like in that whole prologue usually the only one about like what isn't that less like the only
Yeah, what yeah, but it's it but do you start it?
Do you you don't start out by saying what and then start talking?
It is the word what but it means something different in that yeah
I understand the only part of the prologue that people can typically understand is the part where you get to
Fat was good cunning
Which means like that was a good king
So that was good Kenning is like the only part of the prologue that even sounds like English at all
Yeah, the rest is just a completely
Foreign language, and so it's like a Louisiana speak so people would people would sign up for it thinking like oh old English
You know this way I don't have to learn a foreign language, and it's
dramatically different and so it's just
when somebody gets up as an academic or a scholar, I mean, you could expect just a layman to just
think, oh, the King James written in old English. But when somebody's claiming to be doctor or so
and so, and they're getting up as an academic or a scholar saying, well, you know, in order to
understand the King James, I don't want to have to carry around a dictionary of old English or middle
Like it even the fact he's bringing up Middle English
Should show that like what the heck like this guy doesn't understand the King James is not old English
Nor is it Middle English the King James has written in modern English and that might surprise people to hear that
That 1600s English is modern English, but it is right. It's what we speak today
You could call contemporary English, but Middle English goes from around like 1150
to 1450 is usually how that's delineated.
And again, middle English is kind of the hybrid of old English
and then bringing in just tons of French
because they got conquered by France,
or, you know, Norm and conquest, Normandy.
And so basically, you know, that's this amalgamated language.
And then how did that evolve into modern English?
Just kind of just over time, it just kind of evolved.
And so, you know, that's why the leap between middle English and modern English is not as big as the leap from old to middle.
Like that's a giant leap because like, I think in English, like 40% of our vocabulary or something comes from French or something, like some huge amount, you know, don't hold me on that.
But like huge amount.
Yeah, well, we think of a lot of our languages a little bit.
What's like
Old English is pretty much like a hundred percent Germanic, right? Yeah, and then when you get to Middle English
It becomes about like, you know 60 40
It's like 60% is still Germanic and then 40% and you'll hear a lot of people talk about like the Latin influence on
English, but it's not as much Latin that's influencing it as French
So French comes from Latin so English kind of like a grandchild of
Latin in that sense because it's coming through Norman French
is where we're getting it.
So a lot of English words are identical to French words.
They're just pronounced totally differently.
Well, and again, this video that you had made.
Even though the video quality was very poor it just it just smashed and it just it just debunked James White so hard
It was just such a major dunk on it on him that I I really liked it and I started listening to your preaching and
Again, I was already King James only I was looking for people to explain this in really good ways and just basically
Confirming and you are way better than Sam Gipp and I didn't know a lot of problems with Sam Gipp at the time
I just thought he was kind of just a proponent
of the King James only movement.
And yet he's not really someone I would even
recommend at this point.
So what are the problems with,
let's talk about the problems with Sam Gipp,
because a lot of people look to him as,
oh, this is a great King James guy or whatever.
I have to say that Sam Gipp has materials
that I think are good, but I think in talking with you,
it's like he kind of borrowed them
from other people that were good.
Cause like one of the things I do like about him,
is that he has this Agape Filet-O-Test.
Yeah, but that's what everybody brings up.
Like, he turns out just hundreds of pieces of crap
and then has, like, one good piece of paper.
Like, because, yeah, that Agape Filet-O-Test is good.
I like it.
But it's like, I don't know if that's enough
to outweigh the damage that bro has caused.
Because let's face it, I don't know if you know about this,
but, like...
I mean, would you put him in the ruck when I camp?
Are you insane?
He's obsessed with Ruckman.
Yeah, but I'm saying, is he more Ruckman?
Is he more than Ruckman?
Or is he kind of like at Ruckman?
This is what Sam Gipp is.
He's Ruckman without the brain.
Yeah.
Because Ruckman, here's the thing.
Peter Ruckman is a weirdo and a heretic.
but he was a genius just as far as like his IQ.
So that's why people like to listen to him
because he's super smart, super talented.
He's drawing the chalk drawings.
And so he's a really engaging, interesting speaker.
And then you have his disciple, Sam Gipp,
which is basically just everything
that you hate about Peter Ruckman and also an imbecile.
Without any of the good.
Yeah, without the brains.
Because at least Peter Ruckman is a genius.
Sam Gipp's kind of a functioning idiot, in my opinion.
OK.
Do you like him?
But the thing about Sam Gipp is that there's this really famous debate, and this is kind
of what put-
James White on the map.
The John Ankerberg show.
John Ankerberg show.
And so you have this video of the John Ankerberg show.
And you have Sam Gipp on there representing
King James onlyism, just making a complete ass of himself.
And just saying these absurd things,
how like someone in Russia, if the Russian wants
the word of God, he's got to use the King James or whatever,
like it was just all these stupid, absurd things.
So then of course, James White is just able to defeat him.
because he's just an idiot and then James White is wrong for other reasons
and so it's just like it's like this kind of uh you know false left right paradigm or something
where you have to choose between just this anti-intellectual just doofus because here's
the you know James White's an intelligent guy James White's a high IQ guy you know I don't
think James is a good speaker he's well he well James White is is articulate and he's an intelligent
you know, he's teaching lies, he's wrong, he's full of garbage, you know, but it's like obviously
he's gonna come off looking a lot smarter than Sam Gipp, you know what I mean? Because Sam Gipp is
the same. Well he just didn't understand the temple language that he was using. But the thing is,
the thing, the sad thing is that, you know, Peter Ruckman
Gail Ripplinger, Sam Gipp, have made these outrageous claims and taken King James only
as into these weird extremes where they're saying that basically it's superior to the
original Greek and Hebrew.
and and these wild things and also just being really pedantic and splitting hairs about things
instead of understanding that like okay when you translate from Greek and Hebrew into English
things are going to get worded a little bit differently that's just how language works and you know
I was kind of fed this this thing growing up and a lot of people still says and even good people say this and even people
Have the right position on the King James sometimes still believe this myth that the King James a very literal translation
And you'll hear that a lot and they'll say well the problem with the modern versions is that they're not literal
And that the King James is really literal and that just unfortunately, it just isn't true
It's not a good talking point. It's not a good talking point, but it's a huge talking point among King James only is
Unfortunately, I've tried to kind of educate King James only is on this a little bit and say look, you know
The King James is not a super literal translation. I would say the ESV is way more literal
than the King James, which is part of the reason why it's so spectacularly bad is because
when you translate things literally, they sound terrible and it doesn't make it more
accurate.
And, you know, I like to use this illustration because everybody understands it.
Mayamo Esteban.
You know, it means my name is Stephen.
You can say, well, no, actually, it means I call myself Steven,
because that's what, because Yamar means to call.
So Meijamo estheban literally means I call myself Steven.
But if I translated that as I call myself Steven,
it's less accurate.
It's not more accurate.
Because if I said, well, I call myself Steven,
you'd think that it's like a pseudonym.
If I told you what, you know, it doesn't sound like your name. It doesn't sound like it's my name if I said why I just call
Myself I said well, I call myself Steven and be like, oh you call yourself see what's your name though?
You know, so so that's an example of how
More literal is less accurate a more accurate translation of Mejamo Esteban would be my name is Steven
It's less literal, but it's more accurate, right and it's and it sounds more authentic
and it's giving a clearer view of what's being said.
Because if I said I call myself Stephen,
that sounds like it is not my name in English.
I want to address something you brought up in this debate with Sam Gipp
because he has asked this question from John Ankerberg
about if I'm a Russian and he makes a big deal about being a Russian,
if I'm a Russian and I want to get the word of God,
do I have to learn English?
And he's just like, yes.
And it's kind of like the he-could-of-left moment of the debate.
But here's the thing that I think's interesting is Russians are...
Orthodox primarily like that's kind of their big thing and it's stemming from a shared
Ancestry of the Greek Orthodox religion their Bibles from the Texas receptives
This is where I'm going is what's interesting is they kind of have in a lot of these Russian Orthodox monasteries all these Greek
Manuscripts and so if you're Russian you don't speak another language
Yeah, you could actually learn Greek and actually have the word of God
In the same way, if you're going to learn another language, he's acting like you have to learn English to get the Word of God one.
Technically, they could also have learned Greek and gotten the Word of God in Greek just as well.
Yeah, full disclosure, I don't speak any Russian whatsoever, but they do have the Russian sonatal version.
You know, the New Testament is from the Greek Textus Receptus, and so it's going to be...
You know, I can't really speak to the exact quality or how perfect it is,
but it's going to be 99.9% at worst, probably, and at best,
maybe it's even just right on all the time.
I know I've had Russians give me mixed messages on it.
A lot of Russians are, oh, we don't like it.
But even so, there are other Russian versions that have come out more recently
that are dead on with the King James supposedly or whatever.
You know, I don't really know because I don't speak Russian,
Virtually every European language has a Bible that is an extremely accurate, like, Texas
Receptice-based version.
I mean, there's, you know, the big languages have it.
They just do.
I mean, Spanish, you've got the Old Reinovalera or the Reinovalera Gomez, you know, in French.
in, I think, 1744, I read it cover to cover.
I thought it was awesome.
Like, I thought it was great.
You know, in Dutch, you have the Statenvertauling,
which is one of the most respected Bible translations,
1637, Dutch, Statenvertauling, great translation.
They have the word of God in Dutch.
They have the Statenvertauling.
Then you have Pastor Bogard, our friend in South Africa.
And, you know, he is an Afrikaans speaker.
Afrikaans is basically a spin-off of Dutch.
It's almost like a dialect of Dutch.
They're mutually intelligible.
And so therefore, you have the Afrikaans Bible,
which is translated not from the original Greek in Hebrew.
It's translated from the Statenphotolong.
into, just from Dutch to Afrikaans, which in most cases you'd say, hey, you got to go back to the original languages,
but because Afrikaans and Dutch are so similar,
it just made more sense to just take the awesome Dutch Bible
and just tweak it a little to make it Afrikaans.
And so Pastor Bogart has these awesome parallel New Testaments
where it's the King James on one side of the page
and it's the Afrikaans Bible on the other side of the page.
And I also read that Afrikaans New Testament cover to cover.
And it's awesome.
It's great.
It's right on.
I didn't see any issues in it.
I didn't see any problems.
And again, obviously, I'm not an expert in these languages.
I'm not even claiming to be great at these languages.
But I would notice, obviously, any glaring problems
and big problems, even like I did as a 17-year-old with the 1960s.
You're going to see problems on every page.
In the 1960s, there's literally a problem on every page.
That Afrikaans Bible that Pastor Bogart's publishing, you know, and it's it's a mainstream Afrikaans version. That's awesome.
French, you've got, you know, David Martin, and you've got other languages in German.
You know, you have the old Martin Luther Bible, which I don't care for, but you also have
the Schlachter, which is out of Switzerland, a German Bible that's good.
And that's what, like Anselm would use, you know, our German guy at Faithful Word that
puts out a lot of content.
When it's great to see a lot of these parallels, no matter what languages we're talking about,
It's the King James.
It's the King James in the Greek,
or the King James in some other...
It's just in the Reformation.
In the Reformation.
Because it's the standard.
Let's just be honest.
It's the standard.
It got dialed in,
and the other languages,
it's not that they don't have the Word of God.
So the Russian doesn't have to learn English
in order to get the Word of God like Sam did.
Of course, said.
But obviously, we think that the King James is the standard,
and we would want to use that to compare
with the Greek, with the Hebrew,
with other languages,
and making sure that it's dialed in.
Yeah, but in the Reformation era, in the 17th century, like all the languages of Europe pretty much got a Bible.
Right.
And they're all translating from the TR because that's all there was.
From Erasmus' of work, uh, in the Greek.
Yeah, if you're translating from the Greek in the 16th or 17th century, you're using Erasmus, Stefanus, and Beza.
That's all there is.
Right.
There is nothing else, okay?
This modern Greek text came out in 1881 or whatever.
All these Reformation-era Bibles are all going to be pretty much right on, whether it's Spanish,
French, Hungarian, right? The Hungarians have a great Bible. My wife is Hungarian,
she's a native speaker of Hungarian, and the Hungarian Bible is great.
So the Greek and the Hebrew are the two fountains,
the source fountains upon which the word of God is coming.
And it's important to have an intellectual view
of King James' onlyism to combat people like Sam Gipp.
I know your son-in-law, Pastor Oz,
he actually had to go to Sam Gipp's church.
I know you've had your run-ins.
Don't you think it's important
that we have a conference of our own?
Obviously you do, we're having it,
to combat some of this foolishness
and nonsense of people like Sam Gipp.
Absolutely. Yeah, and I don't I don't really actually know a lot about Sam Gipp. I actually did read Gail Ripplinger's horrible
Book and this is many years ago. She's kind of worse. She damaged the King James only movement
I think worse than Sam Gipp. You say her horrible book. Which one are you talking about? The New World War?
New Age Bible Versions? New Age Bible Versions? New Age Bible Versions?
Was was I think even though it's got some weird stuff in it and got problems in it
That was extremely influential book in the 90s and it probably did help a lot of people who were able to chew the meat and spit
Out the bones
It's her book hazardous materials though where she really like the train goes all the way off the track
I heard that in all of thy word is actually just like really bad, but James white crushed her
Books and when that book came out that damaged
Yeah, he knew his rebuttal to New Age Bible versions, yeah.
Well, when I was a teenager, every single AFP pastor
that I ever saw had New Age Bible verses on the shelf.
Everybody was talking about it.
And I will say, just to be fair, that I
think that it actually probably did more good than bad
in the 90s, because in the 90s, everybody
was so on the dark about this issue.
and it was just so off everybody's radar that I feel like at least that book New Age Bible Versions
being such a bestseller and being on every shelf in America it felt like, I felt like it at least like
exposed people to the issue.
It was kind of incoherent though.
Yeah, but it's like, doesn't read very well.
Yeah, but here's the thing.
It was a brutal attempt.
I don't think people were really reading it as much as,
because I never read it.
Looking it up, just referencing.
I didn't read it cover to cover.
It was like a reference book.
But I didn't read it cover to cover.
People were using it more just like the charts,
where it was just like showing the differences and stuff.
The charts were good.
And here's the thing.
people like she kind of borrowing other people. She also lied about her academic credentials,
but people thought that they were real. So people are like, wow, this is like a real scholar
saying these things. So basically, like, like her fake academic credentials made people like
pay attention to the book or whatever. And it was like, they didn't even know she was a woman.
Nobody even knew it was a woman because it was just GA Ripplinger and they all thought it was a dude, right?
And so I think that God can even use the foolish things of this world to confound the wise and at least even all
All things work together for good to those that love God
And so I think that like Ripplinger,
sort of like Ken Hovind was like a gateway drug
for people to like being a Baptist or King James.
I feel like Gail Ripplinger could be a gateway drug
to King James onlyism.
But it's like, you gotta get off it folks
because we gotta get you on the barred stuff, right?
Hey, you know.
Yeah, yeah.
I do think that-
Get a man preacher instead of a woman preacher basically.
And her, so she had that book come out in the 90s.
I believe, or somewhere around that timeline.
And then you have in 2004, in awe of thy word as a book by her,
then 2008 is the book that you're referencing
of the hazardous materials.
That's the one that I feel like where the train went all the way off the track
where she's criticizing the Texas Receptice Creek New Testament that we have.
I think that, you know, it's kind of, it's sort of like Aristotle, right?
You know, Aristotle, like, just founded so many sciences.
And any time you're learning the history of science,
it always, like, starts with Aristotle.
But then, like, looking back, Aristotle
was wrong about, like, literally everything.
But at the same time, though,
You know Aristotle did a great service by at least like starting starting the conversation
He started the conversation about science and kind of like got people thinking about these things
And then everything gets replaced
But he's still kind of you know when you're learning the history of science, you know you talk about Aristotle
I think this conference is so important because of the fact that there are actual
Intellectuals out there scholars who I kind of label them as
functionally king james only in the sense that
they hold to very good doctrines on the bible
and that issue
but i don't know jeff riddle exactly doctor jeff riddle is exactly who i was
thinking of honestly
and the thing is is that
uh... very sound on this the problem is he would shy away from and people i can
would shy though shy away from the label of king james only
because of the fact that they don't want to be associated
with the re-tards right in the ruckman camp hard
So it's up to us, I think, to snatch that label away from the Rucktards and say,
this does not belong to you.
We're going to decontaminate it from your idiocy.
And we have to label them.
We have two choices, we can either take like Dr. Jeff Riddell's route and say, let's shy away from that term, let's come up with our own term, so he goes by, I believe, you know, confessional bibliology.
But confessional bibliology is an awesome movement and, you know, the teachings are great.
I love it.
There's a lot of great material there.
You do a great job.
You know, we actually have enough clout to where we can like rehabilitate King James only ism and take it back
And you know what? I just want to say one more thing
I know we're almost out of time
But I think it's important to be said because a lot of people think we're not King James only enough or that like
Because we're not just these radical weirdo
Rucktards, but here but listen to me
Let me tell you my statement on the King James is I believe that the King James Bible is the word of God without error
If that's not radical enough I give up
You know what I mean?
But I also believe that the original Greek, as found in the Scrivner Textus Receptus,
is the Word of God without error.
And I also believe that the continental text found in the Masoretic Hebrew, you know, is
the Word of God without error.
And so these three are one.
These three agree in one.
I'm not going to go to these weird, unbiblical extremes.
And there's so much to say.
I want to say one other thing.
All right, I got one more thing to say.
Is that, you know, a lot of people will be...
I got one more.
When we say that the King James is perfect and without error,
a lot of people think that we're saying that that's the only way
that something can be translated.
That there can only be one way that something can be perfect.
But there's the thing.
If the King James in John 3.16 said eternal life
instead of everlasting life, it would still be perfect.
Amen.
Okay, because so we're not into this weird hair splitting pedantry
Obviously, the Bible interchanges words like just and righteous.
You could flip those around.
If the King James said Passover in Acts 12.4, it would still be perfect.
Well, actually, there's a difference between everlasting and eternal.
What the heck?
No, I mean, you know, I'm preaching a sermon on Sunday morning and my title is going to
be the King James Bible is Jesus.
translation or language you have it, as long as it's accurate,
this is Jesus. This is, you know, the Word of God.
When I read the Word of God, I'm fellowshiping with Jesus.
And I believe that the Bishops Bible,
when we're reading the Bishops Bible and it doesn't have the few blemishes,
it's still Jesus Christ.
And when we're reading in Greek or we're reading it in another foreign language,
Obviously, when it's accurately translated
and it's coming from that source text,
this is Jesus Christ,
and we have Jesus Christ with us in our hands.
It's the only way to know Jesus.
It's the only way to really know who Jesus is.
And so we should take this issue very seriously
because these other Bibles are another Jesus.
And I don't like the Jesus of the NIV.
I don't like the Jesus of the message.
I don't like the Jesus of these modern versions, the ESV.
read the King James Bible, and I feel like I am communing with God, and we need to make sure that
people realize, hey, just because we believe that, and that seems extreme to some people,
we're not saying that the Word of God didn't exist until 1611.
And I think if you read the translators to the reader,
they make a really important point that, hey,
we believe that as long as the Word of God
is translated accurately,
even the meanest translation, the most average,
is still the Word of God.
And so, hey.
Yeah, and people twist that.
Like, they're not talking about the Jehovah's Witness Bible
because it didn't exist.
They're not saying that they didn't exist.
Because it didn't exist. They're just saying,
you know, it doesn't have to be the most awesome version
to be the Word of God. It can just roughly...
as long as it's saying the same thing.
Amen, and I agree with that or stylish. Thanks for tuning in. We ran out of time. This is such an
epic conversation. You got to check out Sure Foundation Baptist Church. You got to check
out the King James Bible Conference. Pastor Anderson is going to keep going here in a little
bit. So you want to tune in. Thanks, Pastor Thompson for hosting this epic conference.
You need to get a King James Bible and then you need to get the Baptist bias.