Just go back to the live stream real quick.
Okay, so...
So when you're on this one...
Oh yeah, I got a pastor's audio.
Is it supposed to be coming through here?
Yeah, it was, but I can't hear it in here.
So I wasn't sure if they could hear it or not.
Alright, I'm just gonna cut just to make sure.
Okay.
This we don't know.
Okay.
This one?
Yeah, I can hear you guys talking.
It's because it's not using...
There were.
Testing, testing, let me know if you can hear me.
Testing, testing, testing.
The atheists seem to, at least some of them seem to be obsessed with Christianity and
just kind of like paying attention to that.
And since we're a pretty vocal group of Christians that are really pushing our narrative, and
I think that we sincerely believe the Bible, and atheists don't like the Bible in many
cases, we would kind of be attracted, or attractive to someone that maybe doesn't like the Bible.
Is that fair?
I don't know, do you have a different idea?
Yeah, and I also think that it probably has something to do with the fact that what we
preach is not popular anymore, but it is normal and biblical Christianity that's actually
from the Bible, but in modern day society, what we preach seems radical because there's
not a lot of people preaching like we preach.
Which thing do you think is radical though?
It's not the biblical preaching because there's, even if they're not all like your churches,
there's no shortage of churches that are preaching conservative Christianity, whatever you think
the correct version of Christianity should be, and most of those I would not pay much
attention to at all.
Well I think that, I'm not saying it's radical, but I think that people like you or other
people perceive it as radical because it's not preached by a lot of different people.
So it looks like we're a microcosm of people that preach the way that we do.
So it's not that people aren't preaching conservative things, but what we're preaching are things
that people were afraid to touch on.
They're afraid they're going to lose their tithers, they're afraid that they're going
to lose, that people are going to be mad at them and rage against them.
They're afraid that they won't even put their sermons online.
A lot of these people, if they are preaching what we preach, then they're hiding those
sermons so that they don't get any persecution for what they're saying because the Bible
says what it says.
I mean, you're kind of doing your own little Bible study right now where you're basically
bashing everything that it says, and then you haven't gotten to Leviticus 20 yet, I
don't think, but-
No, I did.
I covered it.
You did?
Yeah.
It was a while back, but I did.
Okay.
Well, I guess I didn't catch that one, but I mean, you're not using the King James when
you go through it.
You're talking about the NIV or something, but the King James, you know, that Leviticus
2013, it says what it says.
So like-
You're talking about the death.
If a man lies with mankind as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination,
they shall surely be put to death.
That's a capital crime according to God's law in the Bible.
So when we preach that, we're not preaching it as in we think that Christians should go
out and carry out those and we never say that Christians should do those things, but we
preach that if God was in charge of the government right now, if his laws are being enforced,
or if man was doing what they're supposed to be doing as far as God's concerned, then
they would be enforcing those laws and in fact in America, those laws were enforced
at one time.
I want to go back to that in a second.
Let me correct, I think something Pastor Shelley said, which is it's not just for me.
It's not that it's preaching a certain type of Christianity or anything like that.
What fascinates me to the point where I'm like, I've probably seen more of your sermons
than I think a lot of other people have, is because it seems like you are so obsessed
with something like Leviticus 2013 at the expense of other supposed sins, and the way
you go about doing it makes me fear for what may happen, because I know that neither of
you are suggesting people should go out and take the law into their own hands.
I know you don't say that.
I don't know that everyone who listens to you gets the same takeaway, and I genuinely
worry that someone's going to hear that and hear other things you have said, and take
the law into their own hands, despite what you say, because they know that if they did
that, even though you wouldn't necessarily say, "Yep, that was the right thing to do,"
you would treat that person as basically someone who did something right for the cause or something.
Well, let me ask a question, because I feel like when someone listens to our sermons as
a whole, like they listen to the whole sermon, and not a one-minute soundbite, they're not
getting that message, like it's very clearly caveated or maybe explained or put in its
proper context, whereas a lot of clips that are taken, especially you've made certain
clips, and I always like your clips, so I just have to be honest.
Can I say, sorry to interrupt you, I've gotten plenty of pushback from my own side saying
you're giving these people a platform.
Doing this right now is giving guys like you a platform, and I shouldn't be doing it for
that reason, so I know you probably like some of those clips, but sorry, go on.
I'm just saying I like them objectively.
Even if they didn't get attention, I just liked, usually you clip out some of the funnest
parts to listen to of a sermon in my opinion, but if you're worried about people taking
our words out of context, it almost seems like maybe you're exacerbating that issue.
You're almost-
By only focusing on those things.
Right, by kind of cherry picking maybe some really extreme statements, that might actually
be what you're kind of worried about is someone taking those words too literally.
Have you ever thought about that or is there even possibly retribution in the sense that
we've had protests, we've had people that are mad at us?
There's been times where our voicemail is getting a new voicemail every 30 seconds and
people saying that they literally want to rape my family, murder me, hurt every single
person in our congregation.
If you put a clip out and someone drove by and shot a lot of the women and children of
our churches, would that make you feel bad?
Yeah, of course.
But the reason I'm concerned, talk about the Pulse nightclub shooting.
That was, I think, 49 people massacred.
Feel free, in your words, what was your reaction to that?
I didn't really have much of a reaction, to be honest, because I think in the news, people
are constantly dying.
I think that most people are pretty just dead to that, and I'm not saying that ...
They're numb to that.
They're just numb to the fact that people are dying constantly, especially ... It's
in Florida.
I don't even live in Florida, and here's the thing.
Because I have a prejudice against homosexuals, I believe that they are reprobate and that
they hate God and they have no chance of being saved.
If one of them died, it doesn't really make me feel sad.
So if I read in the news in Arizona, there was a cop killer that was on the loose and
he was running and the cops found him, but they couldn't quite get to him and some regular
citizens just ended up having a confrontation.
They shot and they killed him.
I didn't feel sad that cop killer was killed because to me, he deserves death anyways
for the crimes that he's committed.
So it didn't really cause me any sadness.
So when I hear about that, I just think oh well, that's not a bad thing necessarily.
I'm not pro people going into businesses and shooting people up.
I think that that's wrong.
I would never encourage someone to do something like that.
But at the same time, I wouldn't encourage someone to just shoot someone randomly in
a parking lot.
But if someone's confronting you trying to kill you and there's an issue and they defend
themselves and it happens to be a cop killer, it's just kind of like, well, it seems like
justice was served.
So from my perspective, it just seems like it's maybe God's way of intervening.
When man won't execute his death penalty, sometimes God may intervene, albeit it's not
conventional.
And if that person happens to die, well, then I'm not sad about it.
I tried to take some notes of things you had said, because I think it goes beyond that.
I mean, there was a guy in 2021, he was killed at a pride parade, one guy, and I think it
was someone drove a car through the parade or something.
You personally said, "It's great when trucks accidentally go through those parades.
We can hope for more in the future.
I think it's great.
I hope they all die."
That's what I'm worried about, because you're not saying, "Hey, everyone in church, go get
in your truck and do that."
But if someone did that, you're going to praise that action, because you're like, because
you're not...
Well, it was an accident.
That one was an accident.
If you read the article...
But Pulse was not an accident.
It was a homosexual accidentally ran over another homosexual and killed them.
So from my perspective, that to me is a good outcome, because it's not someone doing this
in anger or hatred.
It's not someone going and putting the law into their own hands.
It's just someone dying that deserves death that wasn't a victim in my opinion.
Forget the accident side of it.
Pulse Nightclub, not an accident.
Not an accident.
But when that happened, you're happy with that outcome.
I wouldn't say I was necessarily happy.
To me, these people deserve death and the fact that they are put to death doesn't make
me sad.
But if people are hearing that, even in context, I mean, if they're hearing that message,
their takeaway, my fear, is that they're going to say, "Okay, if I did something like that,
they're going to treat me as a hero in this place."
But do you have any proof that we treated this guy as a hero?
I don't even know the guy's name.
The guy that went in that club, he's a Muslim, so I would actually preach against him and
say like, "He's going to go to hell and he's just as evil as those people," because he
committed murder.
While at the same time celebrating the fact that the victims are no longer here.
Well sometimes God uses bad people to take other bad people out.
But again, what's the takeaway message from that to your congregation?
Because this is what I'm worried about.
This is why I pay attention to things you guys say.
It's not because you think homosexuality is a sin, which plenty of churches believe.
It's the idea that hey, it's not just that someone who is gay died or was murdered.
It's that that's a good thing.
And when you're saying in any context, that's a good thing, you're sending a message that
if something bad happens to them, hey, if it's an accident even, like whatever, it's
fine because the outcome was what we wanted.
That to me is concerning because I don't think either of you two would ever do that.
I can't say the same for the people who go to your churches.
I don't know them.
I don't know what type of people are coming to the churches.
Well, but think about it.
My church has been in existence since 2014.
His church has been in existence for several years.
We've had hundreds of people come to our churches.
No one's ever done that.
So if our message was really communicating that, wouldn't you think there would be at
least some incidents to like reference, like, hey, these people did-
I've got one for you, but-
Well, let's wait for a second, but I'm just saying from my church perspective, I don't
know of a single member of my church that's even harassed, like, physically harassed a
homosexual.
Again, I always tell them to just stay away from them because, you know, from our perspective,
from my viewpoint, homosexuals are very likely to commit pedophile acts and to hurt children
and to rape them and molest them, and that's happening in our country regularly.
There's a lot of children that are being taken advantage of.
And so from my perspective, you can't have it both ways.
You can't say like I'm against pedophilia and rape and child trafficking and then not
be also potentially happy when those individuals are brought to justice or potentially taken
out of society because if I truly love children and I don't want those things to happen,
then I should desire to put into place measures like Leviticus 2013 or other things that
would stop that.
Our government's not doing that, of course, and if that was on the ballot, I would vote
for it.
But at the same time, if someone dies that is, in my view, worthy of death, yeah, I'm
not going to be disappointed or saddened by that.
I think that people celebrate when Osama bin Laden died.
I think people celebrate when Nazis died.
I think people celebrate when their perceived enemies or people that are committing horrible
acts are put to death or killed, albeit no matter what means.
And so that's the same viewpoint that I have.
The difference though, one, to compare those guys you just mentioned to not not pedophiles
who have done horrible things, but to people who are gay and have not done those things.
That's a leap that scares me because you're not saying like, let's go after people who
have molested children or something because they've done something horrible.
You're saying, "No, it's those people in Pulse Nightclub or something or any place.
What did they do?
What did they do to kids?
Nothing."
We don't know.
That's the thing.
You don't know.
That's the point.
They probably didn't do anything.
Yeah.
Let's just assume that none of them ever did anything like that.
Yeah.
But you were still celebrating it.
I still think they should be put to death because I believe if they're given the opportunity,
they would act on that.
Based on what?
It's similar to the same idea of murder, right?
Once someone commits murder, it's an evidence of the fact that they're more likely to commit
murder again in the future.
And so the reason why the death penalty was, I believe, brought into the Bible in Genesis
chapter 9 is to continue society.
We need to put murders to death so they're not incentivized to keep murdering or keep
hurting people.
And the Bible teaches…
Then we have the justice system.
Like, that's the thing.
If you want a stronger penalty for a crime, okay, fine.
We can have that discussion.
Homosexuality is a crime, though.
That is not a crime.
According to the Bible.
According to the Bible, fine, but it's in our justice system.
If you want to say we should make the laws stronger on certain things, that's a different
argument to be having to say that people who are gay, who have not been convicted, who
have not, as far as you know, done anything, deserve that same penalty as a Nazi, as someone
like Osama bin Laden.
That is a leap that, again, I am afraid of what message that sends to people who hear
that.
You're not, first, the vigilante justice is scary, but the idea that that person deserves
some sort of punishment, not because they did something, in which case we have ways
of dealing with that, but on the hypothetical theory that they might do something, like,
where is that?
Anyone is a hypothetical, anything horrible.
Sure, obviously, even straight people could be a child molester.
And again, it's not-
Who could have thunk?
Yeah, of course.
Obviously, the Catholic Church is filled with child molesters, and there's a lot of preachers,
there's a lot of pastors all over this country.
Because the Bible teaches that it's kind of a result of being a reprobate.
It's someone that hates God, doesn't want to get saved, doesn't believe the gospel.
You don't think any Christian-
That they're given a lot of vile affections.
Has ever done anything like that.
No, we just, you just said that.
No, I don't think any-
I don't think any-
They're not real Christians.
I don't think someone who's saved is capable of molesting a child.
But I-
You're just defining it that way.
As soon as they do something wrong, you're like, "Well, that person wasn't a real Christian."
Yeah.
I mean, you would have to show me an example for me to even be challenged on that worldview.
But that is my worldview because I think, like, there's certain sin-
I'm tempted with all kinds of sin.
I could be tempted with virtually anything except for things that the Bible describes
as being vile affections.
Things like being a homosexual or molesting a child.
Those are just repulsive to me.
So I don't see how that's possible for a normal saved person to desire that.
To me the Bible teaches in Romans 1 that that's a punishment that they've been given over
to have those desires which are unnatural and to go against nature as the Bible describes.
And so therefore it's a result of someone having already rejected God in their heart,
have no desire to be saved and will not be saved.
I feel like you are just saying as soon as someone crosses the line to do something indefensible
in your view, that person is no longer in your club.
Like it's very convenient.
Well, Pete, there's plenty of people that aren't in my club or go to my church that
aren't a reprobate.
Like, right?
I mean, we're talking about defining- But they're only a reprobate when they've crossed
the line.
Like it's very easy to say, "Look, if y'all just followed what I said, everything would
be great.
But the second you do something that has crossed the line, well, you weren't listening to
me clearly."
Like that's everybody.
What doesn't matter about me?
Because Romans 1 tells us that being a reprobate is a manifestation through being homosexual.
So like being homosexual is, according to the Bible, something that's against nature.
Something that no one would normally do or naturally do.
The only reason they do it is because they're being punished for being a reprobate.
So it's an obvious sign.
Is there any homosexuality in the animal kingdom?
Yeah, because the Bible compares homosexuals to animals specifically, calls them brute
beasts.
Dogs.
And dogs is the number one...
Size.
But I'm saying animals did not reject God.
Well, it's just showing like an animal style of behavior where they have no conscience.
So that's what a reprobate is, is someone that has no conscience basically.
So they don't have any, they have no idea what's right and wrong anymore.
And so they do things that a normal person without a seared conscience could never do.
Someone that's normal, there's certain things that just are gross to them.
They're like eating vomit or eating things that smell bad.
Like I don't believe a normal person can want to do that.
But someone has a seared conscience.
I think that they could even literally do that.
You see this on like Fear Factor and you see different shows where people are doing just
incredibly gross things that are unimaginable.
And I believe those people are probably a reprobate.
I can't prove that.
But also when you look at the homosexuality, because that's an unnatural affection and
because of history, science, everything else, it proves the fact that these people don't
love God.
I mean, I've knocked on a lot of doors.
I've talked to a lot of people.
I've talked to a lot of homosexuals.
I've given the gospel to a lot of homosexuals and they've never wanted to get saved.
And that's not because I had some prejudice.
In many cases, I didn't know.
I'm just giving them benefit of the doubt.
They even manifest to myself, they tell me that they don't want that or they don't want
to be saved or they mock God.
And so, you know, it's anecdotal, but at the same time, if homosexuals are wanting to get
saved like every other person and didn't have this unnatural affection, I would assume that
handfuls of them would get saved or would have a desire to.
All the Christians who would say, "I accept the divinity of Christ and all that," who
are gay, who are lesbians, who are trans, none of them are, are they lying to themselves,
all of them?
Are they just bad Christians?
What's the deal with them?
They're just making God up in their own image.
So it's not that they, and in fact, here's the thing, plenty of people can acknowledge
the divinity of Jesus Christ and still not be saved.
I mean, the Catholic Church acknowledges that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
They acknowledge that Jesus was God manifest in the flesh.
They have a lot of doctrines that I agree with as far as the virgin birth, but they
take a lot of these doctrines to an extreme that I don't agree with, of course, but the
Catholic Church believes in work salvation.
And when I run into people that are homosexual that say they believe in Jesus or love God,
they all point to a works based salvation.
I've never heard one explain salvation is by faith alone or by grace alone.
And even if there was maybe that one rare duck, I would think that they're probably
just, they're probably lying.
I want to go back to the, you said, give me an example of someone who into the churches.
So this is something that we've talked about a little bit.
There was a guy last year who Tyler Dinsmore, who was arrested because he threatened to
kill people at a pride parade.
There were, he described you, Pastor Thompson, as his pastor.
I think, correct me if I'm wrong, you basically said, I don't know this guy, something more
or less along those lines, but how much responsibility then do you have for what someone like that
does?
Well, I mean, you said that he threatened, I mean, what I saw was that he was arrested
for threatening.
He had guns.
What I saw, I don't really know a lot about all the evidence that they have.
I've looked into the case lately to see if there's any progress in it.
I haven't seen any progress in it.
But from what I saw, he just said, "Talk me out of it."
He didn't say, "I'm going to kill everybody," or anything like that.
And I think that someone's innocent until proven guilty.
So he still has-
Except for gay people.
No, no, no, no.
Hold on.
So, and I'll just tell you this, that he, you know, I actually kicked him out of my
church.
So he's no longer-
Because why?
For other reasons, but-
Not connected to that event.
Well, yeah, because I'm not going to, I'm not going to judge somebody before they're
found guilty, you know?
But you guys judge gay people before they have done-
But here's the thing, if they say I'm a homosexual, then they're saying it to them.
They're already telling themselves, they're telling us that they're guilty.
So if it's-
The guilty of being a homosexual.
And the Bible says that we're not supposed to allow them to, I mean, the kings of old
just broke their houses down and drove them away and told them they're not allowed to
come to the house of the Lord.
So we're not going to let them come to the house of the Lord.
We're not going to allow them to come and be around our children.
They are, you know, if they haven't committed pedophilia yet, they're going to.
They're going to.
If given an opportunity.
And if they don't, they still would want to.
Let me return to that question in a second.
The opportunity is adopting a kid like these guys that are adopting children and holding
them on their chests like they're going to breastfeed them or something.
Hold that thought for a second.
I do want to come back to this.
I want to come back to that point.
But going back to this guy, it sounds to me like you're saying, "Well, he didn't kill
anyone."
He didn't.
Yeah, he didn't because he was stopped.
But what's the alternative then?
Wait for him to kill some people and then we'll take action?
When I said I didn't know him, I really meant that.
He had visited our church a couple times and he did exhibit some strange behaviors.
But I can't just not let people come to my church because of strange behaviors.
So there was already things that I just red flagged him for anyway.
So it's not like I didn't.
And look, I never preach for someone to do those things.
So if someone's getting that from me, then they didn't get that from me.
They're making these things up in their own mind.
I accept that, look, you can, you should take everyone in.
I don't say to do that.
I've never said to do that.
I'm not accusing you to tell people to do that.
But like if he gets that idea, he didn't get that idea from me.
How come you can dismiss that so easily though?
Because I don't teach that.
I mean, Pastor Anderson's been a pastor for 18 years, okay.
Has anybody of his congregation ever committed any crimes like these?
But are we just waiting for someone to do it then?
But you're assuming this is going to happen, so you like put these clips on and you say,
"All gays should be killed," which we never say gays, we say faggots.
He probably doesn't want to get censored, to say no fairness, or use an offensive word.
With all due respect, you're saying, I'm just quoting you, but we don't say that.
You say all gays should be murdered, or you'll say things like that, and that's not what
we're saying.
Now, do you know the difference between capital punishment and murder?
Do you know the difference?
I want to go back to that, too.
Sorry, I'm not done with the previous point yet.
No, it's okay.
It's okay.
We'll get to that.
I want you to come back and answer that, though.
Sure.
Yes.
In that same year that that guy was arrested before he did anything, there was a shooting
in Colorado at Club Q, a gay bar.
I have that quote, too.
Am I sad that five homos got shot?
No, I'm not sad at all.
I think it's a good thing they're not here anymore to molest kids.
That was your exact quote, but again, first of all, those victims, the victims there,
they were not drag performers.
Not that I think there was anything wrong with that.
The event was for adults specifically.
There was no evidence those victims did anything wrong, but again, the thing I'm quoting here
is that you're happy to see that they're dead.
Who committed the crime?
I don't remember in that one.
It was a fag.
Who cares?
Then that person should be sentenced punish if he hadn't killed himself already, but
that's what I'm saying.
Go after the criminals who have done stuff, but the victims...
Those criminals should have taken out the criminals.
There's no empathy.
Yeah, but you're using the example of someone...
Did that fag really listen to Pastor Thompson and get that idea?
That seems kind of absurd to suggest.
Here's a guy who got arrested before he did something and you're basically saying, "I'm
wiping my hands clean of that guy."
Well, it's because I really didn't know him.
So I had Oregon Public Broadcasting, which is like an NPR or maybe some...
Well, I think it's connected to, you know, it's a government, basically, type broadcasting
group.
They get federal funding, probably.
Yeah.
So, I mean, he was fairly fair with the interview that he interviewed me about, Tyra Dinsmore,
but they...
Well, here's what I think, that they're directly trying to connect my preaching to him.
They've been trying to do this for a long time.
It's not hard to connect the dots.
But here's the thing, that he...
So he drove to my church from four and a half hours away, twice, and I literally didn't...
So the day that he went soul hunting with me, I rarely talked to him because I was giving
the gospel to other people.
It was just like I didn't know him.
Does it bother you that a guy like that...
That I didn't know him?
Yeah, it's true.
I didn't know him.
He came to my church a couple of times.
Does that mean he's my church member?
But that's what...
I mean, you directly tried to connect me in your article about it.
He said you're his pastor.
Yeah, but does that make it true?
I mean, is it not true?
Is it true?
Was I his pastor if he visited my church twice?
Does that make me...
Does it bother you that...
You said this guy had a bunch of red flags that you saw separate from all this stuff.
Does it bother you?
Well, as he came later, yes, I did see those things.
Does it bother you that he was attracted to your church?
Well, it bothers me that he's connected to my church and it's directly trying to connect
me to him when I don't agree if he did do that crime, which just saying, "Talk me out
of it," to me isn't a crime, and apparently...
They had reason to believe he was going to go through with it, which is why he was arrested.
Well, but people get arrested for...
There was a guy that got arrested in Pennsylvania for just saying his First Amendment rights
by a police officer, and they locked him up and threw him in jail because he was on a
crime parade.
What does it say about those people?
This goes back to the point I was making earlier, which is if someone like that, if he drove
four hours to come to your church or something, why do you think he was attracted to your
church?
Well, lots of weirdos are attracted to churches and people that are distressed and having
problems come into churches.
People that are bad come into churches.
But there are churches everywhere.
And you know, like yours specifically.
What if I said someone listens to your podcast and regularly and they maybe even subscribe
to you.
I don't know if that's possible, but they say they subscribe to you or something and
they look at one of our articles and they drive into a church and shoot and kill people.
Is that really your fault?
I'll answer that for you because I think that has happened once where someone who did some
sort of crime, if you look at his likes on Facebook or something, and there were many,
I was in that list.
And then what I would do in that situation is one, let me see if I've ever had any conversations
with this person.
The answer was no.
And then the question is, is there anything I may have written or said that could have
pointed this guy in the direction to think that what he did was okay?
And when I did that, it's like I cannot find anything that I've said, I can't find anything
I've ever written that would have pointed anyone in that direction.
And I think if you look at the broader scope of everything I've done, I think that holds
true.
So I am able to live with that.
Like I didn't do anything that this guy would have found okay.
In fact, I will go out of my way to condemn it repeatedly so that anyone listening knows
I would never support anything like that.
I don't hear that though.
But that seems like the same viewpoint we have because if one of my church members committed
a crime like that, I would say that they shouldn't commit that crime and that that was wrong.
So I think that that's the same thing and I don't think it's fair to hold public figures
responsible for what some potential crazy individual may do just because they happen
to listen to some of their preaching or visit their blog or read their articles or watch
their videos.
Everyone has to take personal responsibility for their actions and I don't think that it's
fair to assume that any one individual is directly responsible because there's multiple
factors here.
I mean what they're reading online, there's a lot of websites that are very radicalized
online, there's other individuals in this person's life.
And what's your fear from them seeing something radical online because they're getting the
idea from someone?
I just don't believe in thought crimes.
So like if someone commits a crime, they're held responsible but you know I don't think
that the individuals unless they're having direct calls of violence like if they're calling
for violence directly and you can prove that or they maybe assisted that person in some
way financially verbally or any or counseled them and you can prove that then that person
should also be held responsible.
But just listening to general preaching or taking out of context or taking your post
out of context like people shouldn't be held responsible for that.
And when he was arrested they wanted me to do like some funding to help pay for his attorneys
and lawyer fees and since I didn't know what happened I didn't do that.
I didn't just jump to his side and say yeah just do whatever you want like I didn't know.
I didn't know that when it happened I didn't know what the truth was about the matter and
so here's the thing that I do I don't judge the matter before I hear it and so I don't
know exactly all the details even of the case I actually thought about you know just buying
the you have to pay for the case online or whatever and then I just didn't do it so I
mean sometimes church members do things that we don't like and it makes us look bad or
it makes Christ look bad and you know that's unfortunate and we don't want that to be the
case and I think that it's pretty clear from most of the sermons we preach on these topics
that there are clear statements in those sermons that say look we're not saying do this we
just want the government to change we want them to go back to older laws they used to
enforce and so you know I'm not going to feel bad I'm not going to feel personally responsible
if someone does something that I totally disagree with and have preached against verbally.
But if someone breaks the law if someone does something that you say I wasn't telling you
to do that it would be a lot easier to legitimately wipe your hands clean of it if it wasn't
so damn easy to make that connection between their actions and what you celebrate.
Like the reason they're making those connections is because we know what you have said in the
past.
Like had the guy gone through and killed people but I didn't say to do that though no you
didn't say to do that but you would have been like yeah but it's a good thing that happened.
Well I but I'm saying it's a good thing that they're not around to molest children that's
what I said.
And that's my point like they didn't molest children you're just like making up a thing
but you don't know that.
Going back to the adoptive parents and stuff I'm trying to figure out you want to go back
to some old school code of some old school law.
Well in 2003 it was illegal to be a homosexual in the state of Texas.
So until.
Sodomy was illegal.
Yes.
Homosexuality was.
Being gay is not.
Was a crime.
Being gay is not a crime.
Acting on it was in Texas.
Sure.
Yes.
Committing the act of homosexuality was a crime.
You're right.
Being gay wouldn't be a crime by itself.
Right.
That in, if you go further back, even into the 1800s, there were still states that had
statutes of the death penalty specifically for sodomy and that just slowly weaned itself.
It was like 20 year prison sentence.
I'm not arguing that that didn't happen.
So I'm just saying I would believe that our government should go back to...
Tell me how that works.
Hypothetically.
Let's say there's, you're in Texas, if their legislature wanted to pass a law that they
could get around Supreme Court precedents or whatever.
How would that even work in practice?
You just, I think you said earlier, you would vote for it if it was on the ballot or something.
On the ballot, yes.
How would that work in practice?
Are we, what would you like to see the government do?
So I think we'd have to first overturn the Lawrence versus Texas ruling.
That's the sodomy ruling.
Which would be a trigger law for Texas because they still have on the books, I think it's
Texas Penal Code 21.06 is the crime for committing homosexuality.
I would want them to then pass new legislation changing the punishment to the death penalty
specifically.
For people who have committed the act of sodomy.
So not being homosexual, but if someone commits the act of sodomy with male with male or female
with female, then they would be put to death.
Of course, I believe in a fair trial.
They should be given opportunity.
Well, let's say they did it.
I won't argue that.
Let's say they did it.
Yes.
There's no question of guilt.
Let's say they have kids that they adopted or something.
Yes.
How do they play out?
How do we kill them?
What happens to their kids?
I want to go down.
What happens to anybody's kids after they get killed?
If they're a murderer, what happens to their kids?
What happened to O.J.'s kids when he had to go to jail?
Governor Perry put over 300, I think over 300 people to death.
Didn't kill his wife, but then didn't he end up going to jail for something else, right?
What happens to anybody's kids that go to jail?
Obviously, it's sad for kids to lose their parent for any reason.
If your parent's a murderer, though, that is very different from two people having sex.
No, it's not.
Well, I agree that they're different, but according to the Bible, the death penalty
is applied to about—and I preach a sermon on this, and I can't remember the exact number,
maybe like 16, depending on how you define them, like 16 different crimes are worthy
of the death penalty in the Old Testament, and I believe they should still be enforced
today.
In fact, in the early colonies, they did have all of them except for adultery, usually,
which I still believe adultery should be put to death, too, but you know, you said how?
Well, the Bible uses stoning.
A modern version of that to me is a gun.
It's essentially a similar form of stoning in the sense that it's probably less painful.
So in that regard, it may be more efficient.
So you know, the firing squad is a reasonable method.
I don't think that it should be necessary, like any more painful than it has to be.
Death obviously can be painful.
But yeah, I think Texas should use the firing squad and it should be immediate.
It shouldn't be like 15 years down the road.
We shouldn't as taxpayers have to wait for justice to be served.
So you know, we don't need prisons the way that we have in the day.
I think there's a lot of things broken there.
But yes, I believe that that's what should happen.
And of course, I don't believe anybody should take the law in their own hands.
Nobody should execute anyone without going through the proper channels, having a fair
process, getting a chance for defense.
There should be at least two or three witnesses.
No one should ever be condemned based on one witness testimony.
And so that's God's system.
And I think that it still works today.
Cliche question.
If one of your kids came out as gay, what do you do at that point?
I would do the same thing.
I don't believe my kids ever will be because I'm going to get them saved at a young age.
And so I don't think it's possible.
But even if it was, if my child committed murder or rape or was a serial killer or homosexual,
I would wish the law was equally enforced.
You would rather see if your child was gay and acted on it.
Alright, death penalty for them too in an ideal world.
Yeah, I mean the Bible even says a stubborn rebellious child would be taken to the government
and would be put to death, which to some, to many people, things even more extreme.
Which by the way, you're both parents, I'm a parent, like kids rebel, kids are stubborn.
That's how kids work.
But it's talking about more, like when it uses the example, it's like, you know, he's
a drunkard and a glutton and like he's an adult child adult that refuses to work and
is just a menace to society will not harken to anyone refuses to anybody's instruction
for a second.
They're refusing.
I mean, it's not like a three year old that like refuses to clean their room.
Okay.
But if a parent has a has a 25 year old kid or something, this happens all the time, has
a hard time getting a job, isn't getting a job or something.
They're going through a rough time right now.
That is a very real thing that happens all the time.
That too, that also deserves no, I think, I think the way you frame that, that doesn't
sound right.
I mean, this is, this is someone that's like strike often either.
Yeah.
I mean, this is someone that's striking their parents, cursing their parents, refusing to
do anything productive.
It's not like they're not even trying to get a job.
It's not like they can't find a job because economy is tough.
It's like they're refusing to work.
They're a glut.
They're just drinking, causing problems.
And so that person's dangerous to society.
Think about it.
No, no, no.
That person has issues.
Probably, if they were my kids, it's like, "No, I want you to do more."
I do not see how that...
I don't care what the Bible says.
How does that rise to the level of death penalty?
Well, I mean, again, if someone is not willing to obey any authority in their life, that's
going to cause serious problems in society.
And if the death penalty itself would not inspire someone to act appropriately, that's
an extremely dangerous person.
So according to God's law, they would be put to death.
And again, that's probably the most extreme case that probably didn't happen very often.
How do you know if someone is gay?
If they're not confessing it to you?
Because the laws in your ideal world are so stark.
It's pretty simple.
They commit a homosexual act.
I mean, that's-
Well, they look like a queer.
No, but that's-
Yeah, like a queer.
They dress like a queer.
Probably a queer.
This is what you have said in your sermons, some variation of that.
But that's the whole point, like not everyone is a stereotype.
That's true.
So what happens at that point?
Because there are plenty of gay people you would not know standing next to you at a stall
in the bathroom.
Some gay people don't look gay, sound gay, act gay.
So again, to me, it's someone that commits the act.
If someone commits the act, then that's the line.
Just like a murderer.
How does someone a murderer?
They killed someone.
How's someone a liar?
They lied.
How's someone a homosexual?
They committed a homosexual act.
I think that that's pretty much the clear line.
The only exception I would give is if someone was kind of doing it by force or perhaps they're
drunk or taken advantage of.
There's sometimes people do things that they ...
If they have gay sex because they got drunk at a bar, you weren't of sound mind to let
that one fly.
I'm going to say that some people will sometimes do things they're not aware of because you
can be blacked out.
People, when they drink alcohol, can become so intoxicated they don't even know where
they're at.
I find it funny that if they're drunk, which is a sin in your mind, and if they're having
gay sex, which is a sin in your mind, but they do both at the same time, they're spared.
No, that doesn't mean that they're spared.
It just means that maybe perhaps they don't actually believe that, or they're not like
that.
They would be disgusted by their behavior when they became sober.
The Bible says that when they burn in their lust one toward another in Romans chapter
one, that that's kind of the telltale sign.
It's like when you have a cold, how do you know you have a cold?
Your nose starts to run, your throat gets sore, or you start developing a cough, then
you know you got a cold.
The symptoms are telling you you got a cough.
Well, when you're a reprobate, the symptom is that you're burning in your lust towards
the same gender.
If you're a man, you're burning in your lust, and that's what you want is a dude.
That's the symptom that you're a reprobate, because you don't like women anymore.
You want men.
That is not something that you're born wanting.
Studies and science even show that that's true, because they do studies of twins.
One's a queer and one's not, then if they're exactly identical, science, it would seem
to say that if they're exactly identical, then they would have this gay gene, supposedly,
but that's been proven wrong.
That's not how it works.
How do you know?
How does it work?
Are you gay?
I am not.
If you ask gay people, "When did you turn on the switch to become gay?"
That's not how it happened.
They will say, "I was always this way.
It's not something that turned on.
Maybe I didn't realize it for a while, but all the signs add up."
Different question, but I'm not trying to change the subject, which is how many gay
people do you know?
I wonder, I'm guessing it's low.
If you don't know people like that, if you don't talk to them because, literally, of
all the stuff you're saying, maybe it's possible you're missing out on a lot of the assumptions
you have.
When you say no, that's kind of a relative term.
Are you close to people who are gay?
I would say I've ran into a lot of homosexuals from just soul-winning.
At the bar?
That's a very—no.
So that's like just a—you met this person.
Sure.
You knocked on their door.
You talked to them.
You found out they were gay.
There's people that I grew up with, so I went to school with, and maybe you had a suspicion,
and now you know they've come out and they're officially homosexual.
I also have worked with people that are homosexual before.
And do you talk to them?
I mean, okay, so if you work with them, not the old acquaintance from school, who you
probably don't talk to much, but someone you work with.
I don't currently work with anybody like that, but like in times past I worked at Chili's
as a waiter, and one of the other waiters was a homosexual, open, you know, very open
about it, and I was very nice to him.
Sure, it's a work environment.
He was nice to me, we would be considered friendly, and at that time I didn't think
that every homosexual was a reprobate, so I did have a little bit different viewpoint
on that particular sin.
I still thought it was gross.
I guess my question like if that happened, but the fact that you're saying you don't
know it, you don't know people like that today who are actually part of your life.
I don't have anybody that's part of my life that's a homosexual.
And I'm wondering, I mean, the fact that you don't know anyone there, who is correcting
you on errors you are making in judgment or something like that?
I don't hang out with serial killers, rapists, there's a lot of people that don't hang out
with Muslims, I don't have any like active Muslim friends or anything like that.
And I'm not asking Muslims to correct me on my Christian theology because that's just
kind of bizarre.
Like I think that that would be a strange worldview, plus even Christians that are in
violation of 1 Corinthians 5, the Bible says not to have any fellowship with those people.
So that would be people that are committing fornication, people that are drunkards, people
that are committing idolatry or extortion or railing, those people you're supposed
to separate from your company as well.
So I will be a hypocrite if I'm even hanging out with Christians who fall in those specific
categories.
But every Christian falls short.
Everybody's a sinner, absolutely.
But not everybody's committing the act of fornication, not everybody's a drunkard.
And people can abstain from those activities.
And I believe our church is filled with people that are abstaining from those activities
on a regular basis.
I forgot who said it about the disobedient kids who are not working, whatever.
We said, "Of course we're not talking about children, we are talking about adults who
are being rebellious."
Yes.
Right?
Okay, here's a direct quote for you about disobedient children.
"You know you could squash rebellion in a—how to squash rebellion in a public school today?
Take the rebellious one out and stone him.
I bet they'd shape him up pretty quick."
That's about children who are acting up, which is a thing kids do.
Yeah, in the laws of Connecticut of 1673, they put the age for that statue in the Bible
at 15 years old, okay?
I think that's probably pretty close to where I would agree with, maybe 16, 17, 18.
I think that an 18-year-old young man in high school is still an adult in a sense.
They're still an adult child.
So in a righteous government, that kid could be executed for being disobedient.
If – here's the thing, both parents have to want this.
So according to the Bible, it's basically both – and here's the thing, parents have
a natural affection towards their children.
I believe that parents love their children more than anybody else.
So if a parent themselves has recognized in their own child some kind of a devious nature,
some sinister nature in this individual that's going to literally hurt and harm society,
and it probably has already done that, probably already hurt their siblings or hurt animals
or has done all kinds of misdemeanors and crimes and is getting drunk and just smiting
his parents and cursing them and wishing that they would die, like this person has gotten
to a point to me is way more extreme than what you were getting mad about what Tyler
Dinsmore said about other individuals, where you said it seems like this guy is likely
to commit a crime and they arrested him.
That's not an opinion though.
That is why they arrested him.
I know.
I'm just saying that would be similar to this in the sense that you're noticing a pattern
with this individual and sensing the extreme danger and so that person is brought into
custody.
And again, if they choose at any point to obey their parents, then it's off the table.
It's just that they're even put in the position of, "Hey, if you're just not going to listen
to your parents, you're going to do these things, then we would put you to death."
And they still do it.
It just shows that they're so broken that the death penalty is appropriate in that rare
situation.
The judge would still have to make the decision.
They bring them to judges who would make that decision.
So it's not like the parents could just willy-nilly go up and go, "Yeah, this little brat won't
listen to us."
So kill him.
It sounds like there is no room in that worldview for any sense of rehabilitation or anything
like that.
Most people, again, they're not rehabilitating.
They are offering rehabilitation, and they're not harkening.
They're not receiving the treatment in a sense.
This is true of, I mean, alcoholics too.
In the moment, yeah, they're not going to listen to you, but give them time.
This is true of prisoners today.
Well, it's not saying an alcoholic.
It's saying a stubborn and rebellious child that's smiting and cursing his parents.
That's a different context than just being drunk.
Drunkenness is a symptom of his particular issue.
It's not the direct cause.
It doesn't say put drunkards to death, because I don't believe that.
It says that this kid is doing these activities.
He's participating in that activity.
So, again, rehabilitation is great.
And I think that a lot of people, the prodigal son--
But you can't rehab if you've murdered them.
You've executed them.
Obviously, at that point, it's the last straw, though.
It's a serious process that people are going to take seriously and consider.
And again, these are coming from their own parents.
It's not coming from an outsider.
And I believe that if every once in a while there was a child that was that extreme, if
they were publicly executed, it may cause, generally speaking, children to fear their
parents more and to fear the fact that, hey, I need to be a productive member of society.
I need to obey my parents.
And so I believe that would be beneficial.
Is there any situation when the parents are wrong and the kids know better what they're
doing?
Yes.
But that would be rebellion against the parents.
Yes.
The Bible's not saying just only like any level of rebellion.
Every kid disobeys their parents.
The Bible says foolishness is bound on the heart of a child.
So according to the Bible, children are of course going to disobey.
My children disobey me all the time.
But they're not stubborn or rebellious.
They do end up listening.
They do hearken to my rules and I think 99.9% of children are all in that category.
This is a rare less than 0.1% that we're talking about.
But that example is important.
But even like non-Christian families, have you ever heard someone say, "Well that kid
was just a bad seed."
I mean you've heard that in society, I'm sure.
Sometimes there's just kids that are just rotten and bad and they grow up to be serial
killers and like he was saying, people that torture animals.
Or they turn out to be okay, they had a rough childhood or something.
But if you could prevent Jeffrey Dahmer, or if you could prevent some of these major serial
killers, if they had been put to death at a young age and they hadn't committed the
atrocities that they did, wouldn't you have said that would have been a net good?
No, because you can't predict what they're going to do in the future.
I'm saying, I'll give you perfect hindsight.
Would you agree that if a serial killer was put to death earlier...
Yeah, could I go back in time and kill baby Hitler?
No, but Gacy, he was given multiple chances.
He was caught being a sodomite first and then he was like the exemplary charmer in prison
and they let him out and he just kept doing it and doing it and then he's just like burying
bodies underneath his house in Chicago or whatever.
It's like men.
So what was he?
I've lost the thread on this one.
Well just that he was a sodomite.
I mean, it's obvious.
His problem wasn't that he was gay, his problem was that he was a murderer.
Well, it was both.
You've said – I want to know where you guys get your news from in general.
You've said – and I don't know if you're joking or if you're telling the truth.
You mean this?
You've said Hillary Clinton's a lesbian, Sandy Hook was a hoax.
You've said they put litter boxes in classrooms because kids think they're cats.
You also said that's been fact-checked.
I heard that from multiple sources.
All of those things are lies.
Where are you getting this information from?
What is your media diet?
I think everybody can have a personal opinion.
When it comes to ...
You didn't say it was an opinion.
You said, "No, no, no."
You implied it was a fact to your congregation.
There is a lot of rumors about Hillary Clinton and Uma Abedin, which is ...
Who was her assistant for several years.
To me, it seems likely.
I can't say it's a fact because I would be lying if I said it's a fact because I don't
know for sure, but I would say I believe it's very likely.
When it comes to the Sandy Hook thing that you brought up, again, there's a lot of strange
things with that specific incident that caused me to doubt the veracity of the official story.
I can't tell you exactly what happened.
I don't know what happened.
I don't know if children died or not for sure, but it's very likely that some did.
It's likely that there's some strange stuff going on.
When you see a parent laughing on camera and then pretending to be sad, that's a strange
thing to see.
I don't want to re-litigate all of Sandy Hook right now.
You brought it up.
No, I know.
I just want to clarify.
I'm saying people grieve in different ways, and there are people who hear the worst news
of their life and their first reaction might be laughter, and it seems weird, and it's
just them processing stuff differently.
It is possible.
But my point is that's a very Alex Jones conspiracy theory sort of thing.
I'm trying to figure out, "Okay, you don't know what happened you're saying.
Well, where are you going to learn stuff?"
I think it's best to always use primary sources for anything that you learn or read about.
Get the actual quotes, watch the original video, try to find the original sources.
Of course, when it comes to anything with information, there can always be bias, slant,
things taken out of context.
I don't say there's any one singular source of truth as far as news.
I don't trust any news.
I think that all news has bias.
I think that all news has problems.
We can't all find primary sources for everything.
I can't.
Sure.
It's impossible to watch C-SPAN for 24 hours a day.
I'm saying, so where are you getting the filtered information from because it's got to be somewhere.
I use everything.
What's everything?
I would say I use mainstream media sources.
I use online sources like Twitter or Gab or other blog places, YouTube.
Okay, but any of those places, no one just watches YouTube, reads Twitter.
You've already selected whose voices you want to listen to on those outlets.
I wish.
The news feed is filled with people I've never even heard of in my life, and it's constantly
being retweeted by all kinds of people.
There's independent journalists that are being retweeted by all kinds of people, and there's
people like you that come on my feed.
I don't follow you personally, and I wouldn't choose to follow your news sources, but they
might come up.
There's going to be liberals that come up, AOC.
I don't care to follow AOC.
But this is the algorithm.
You follow certain things, and it's going to feed you more of what you tend to like.
I think that they feed everybody what they want, personally.
But I haven't heard any specifics, though.
Twitter is not a news source.
Twitter depends on who you follow and what they feed you, but that's not a news source.
I don't think there's any singular person that I follow, though.
So I would say I look at all of them and just kind of judge them independently.
And how about-
Is there any different-
It's not naturalnews.com.
Like, do you have any specific sources you go to?
I mean, I would just say the same thing.
Like, I just kind of just check out multiple different things.
But using the same like social media, stuff like that, but yeah, I mean-
I mean, my concern about that is, and you're not alone, a lot of people do that.
If you ask people right now, where do they get their news from, I'm sure most people
are like TikTok, YouTube, but again, it's filtered.
There's an algorithm.
It feeds you what it thinks you want to see.
And that means you're just going to get confirmation bias over and over.
It can be an echo chamber for sure.
But you probably get the same thing.
No, because on Twitter, I'm not doubting it.
I follow certain people, but not because they agree with what I already believe.
It's because I know they've done their homework.
I know how they do their homework.
Like this is a frustrating thing when I see conservative people say, "Oh yeah, I followed
this right-wing news source."
It's like, they don't do news.
They do commentary.
I do commentary.
I know what that means.
I'm not collecting the primary sources.
I don't have an editor.
I mean, you do on us.
Sure.
You're right.
I just did a story.
I just did something about how the House passed House Bill 1690, and I went right to the actual
bill itself and read the bill and I read where they got their definitions from, which was,
you know, the
I don't know which bill you're talking about, but okay.
It's basically just an anti-Semitic bill where they get their definition from an outside
source and basically you have to go to this outside website, which is the, what is it,
the Holocaust Memorial?
I think it's the International Holocaust Research Council.
Okay.
That's what it's defined as.
If you say the Jews killed Jesus, then that is considered an anti-Semitic.
That is not anti-Semitic.
But that's what the definition is if you go to the website.
That's the Marjorie Taylor Greene conspiracy theory.
No, no, no.
She's the one that emphasized that.
Go read the bill and show me where you can see the content of it.
Yeah, they're not going to arrest anybody who says the Jews killed Jesus.
Well, here's the thing.
They didn't say what the punishments were.
Basically, the punishments were in relation to certain, I think Title VI funds that the
government is issuing, then they may be able to restrict those funds if found guilty of
those specific anti-Semitic definitions.
And if I wanted to know, is that what they're planning to do?
Is that what the letter of the law is?
There are people who study this stuff repeatedly, who I trust that they know how to research
it.
I guess, let me rephrase the question I was asking.
Let me say that I went to the primary source, the actual thing, the actual bill, and I looked
at who voted for it, and Marjorie Taylor Greene actually voted for that, so it wasn't her.
The problem with some of those things is I could read a Supreme Court decision firsthand
but I'm not a lawyer, and so if I'm trying to figure out how to interpret that sort of document,
I want to go to lawyers who I know study this stuff, have the proper context. So going back
to the where do you get your use from? But it tells you right there in the bill where they get the definition,
and so you go to the website, and then they tell you the definition of anti-semitism, and it gives
all these different things. And good for you for doing that. I'm saying most people are never going to do that.
So I'm just telling you that I do go to the source documents, or if I'm watching a video about, you know,
something that happened in government, I just watch I mean, because it's all on video, what they say.
Let's go back to like, I mean, I understand your point. Yeah, because because here's the thing, I listen to both sides, I try to
listen to what the Democrat or the left, if you can use that term, will say about a particular bill, and I'll listen to the
right and I'll kind of just see like, what both sides are saying about a particular bill, because there is interpretation, right?
There is how's the supply? What's the spirit? And so I think you always should evaluate both sides, the more extreme views and
try to figure out like what's actually true. But you do have to independently fact check people. I don't believe you can trust
the verified fact checkers or the community notes or any of those kind of things. I think they're pretty biased as well. So, you
know, we all have to make decisions for ourselves, use our own discernment. And the best is to look at primary sources, I think
listen to both sides, and then you have to make your own judgment.
So let's talk about vaccines then during COVID and stuff, because I think both of you have said people should not get vaccinated
for various reasons. You've done sermons about it. So I don't know if this is a fair question. But I think it is. How do you
think I'm not looking for a scientific answer? How do you think that vaccines work?
Well, the COVID vaccines a little bit different than other methodologies because it's using mRNA technology. So they're
trying to create in your body a spike protein that then will trigger response in your body to identify that spike
protein, think that it's COVID and eliminate it. And then by the process, your body would see that and if it ever
came into the system, then you actually got the real COVID, you already have those spike or you already have those
antibodies. And then generally, yes, if we talk about previous vaccines, though, they would actually give you a
weakened form of a particular illness and hope that it would generally create the same response. Sure. So that's the
logic behind. Okay, so why were the vat? Why would you tell people not to get vaccinated? Well, number number one, I
think that that logic seems sound like if that was true, I don't know that I could say there's anything wrong with
that. I doubt the veracity of those claims. I don't think that they've done that. That's how that I don't think it
triggers the proper immune response. I think people are experiencing autoimmune disorders and issues as a result of
these mRNA vaccines. Additionally, there are other chemicals that are usually used in these injections and can cause
problems for individuals. So to me, I don't personally believe the narrative. I don't think that it's working the way
that they claim. I don't think it works. And then I think you're exposing yourself to potential health risks associated
from it not working properly.
So going back then, like, where are you getting that from? Because if we say, who would know the veracity of if these
things work, you could say, well, the scientific bodies that put it together, the experts who decide whether a vaccine
should be divvied out to as many people as possible. They're the ones who have spent their lives studying this. I do not
get the, it's not you guys personally, I do not get the animosity against someone like Anthony Fauci, who spent
a career studying infectious diseases and knows more about them, and people in his office probably know more about
them than any of us do, because we don't deal with them all the time. But if they're saying, no, we saw the methodology,
we see what the scientists are doing, we looked at their process, we trust that this is sound, and that's the only
reason we're recommending it, if that's what those experts are saying, and listen, I have a bio background, I am not
qualified to make that call. But if that makes sense to me to say, these are people who studied this their entire lives,
let's hear them out, as opposed to what someone who's like, well, I can poke a hole in this logic somewhere, or it
happened, they made a vaccine really, I can't poke a hole in the logic, what I'm saying is that I don't, I don't trust
it. And if they did have, if they did have double blind studies, and in we've gone through the test of time, and we
actually see the results of everyone that got the vaccine didn't get the Z's, they all and all the people that didn't
get the vaccine are getting the Z's. I don't believe that those have been done.
They were done. Okay, like, I don't believe I don't believe that.
Yeah. And the reason is so many people got infected with COVID that it was if it was a very rare disease or something, and
there was a vaccine to potentially stop it, it'd be really hard to try to believe that there's a motive financially for
these things. And so vaccines are a big business. I was against vaccines way before COVID. So like, I personally
researched a lot of the vaccine information. And I find that it's not reliable information. It doesn't work the way
they claim. I believe it's been it's correlated to autism increases in our society. And our government has literally
paid money to individuals saying that this vaccine did cause autism in the child. But this is this is what they
said money by the by the those companies. They said it wasn't the cause it was just related. So whatever the
difference is, but I'm saying, you're saying you did the research and my argument to you is that the people who study
this for their entire career get paid by the same people. I don't know what that like they're not getting a bonus per
vaccine or something like their job is studying this. Your job is a pastor. Like I know you guys get paid for
being pastors. You know what lobbying is right? Yeah. Political lobbying. They're not like saying, well, we'll make up
science because someone paid us money to do it. I don't think they're making up science. Pfizer invested 11 million
dollars and made 10 billion dollars off the vaccine. There's the motivation right there. Right. No, that's not
motivation to put out crap. And then they force people. Why? You don't think they will do bad things for billions of
dollars? But you're missing my point, which is, yeah, we gave money to companies to say we have, if I have this
correct, they were like, we don't know what the right vaccine is going to be. Like, we're going to give money to
various companies to try to make their products, we're going to test them, we could do it quickly, because a lot of
people are getting COVID. So we could do these studies in a lot faster time than we would. We're putting all of our
focus on this because it's such an emergency. What I'm trying to figure out is, okay, if the people whose job it is
to do this are saying, we trust it, we're getting it, it's solid, the science stands behind it. I don't get who are
you to now come here and say, well, I did my own research, and I don't think it works. So I just think they're
lying. I mean, I think the government lies about a lot of things. I think that they're financially, they have
financial incentives to lie. I think a lot of them are being bribed, a lot of being being threatened. In fact, I'm
going to see a movie called protocol seven coming up by Dr. Andrew Wakefield, specifically on issues related to
vaccines, and a litigation that is currently still in it's still going on about Wakefield study connecting
vaccines and autism was discredited by the journal he published it in.
Sure, I'm not I'm not going to dispute that fact. But at the same time, that doesn't mean that it's
false. People will. There's a major, there's a major financial incentive to there's a financial
incentive to cover these things done properly. Well, maybe there's a technicality that's a little
bit off. But I think there is a relation to the vaccines and a lot of this increase in SIDS,
autism and other auto diseases.
You're saying okay, Wakefield says this stuff, I go back to I don't know what he said specifically,
but you're saying like this one scientist who has a different point of view, I'm taking very
seriously. But the 1000s and 1000s of scientists who study this regularly for a living said
something else. They're forgettable.
But think about my worldview, how many people believe the same way I do about the Bible. I'm
in I'm in a minority when it comes to being King James only being a Baptist. I'm in minority on
vaccines. That's okay. But I'm going to be a minority on things. If I believe they're true,
just like wouldn't you say you're in a minority group of being an atheist in America? But so are
you just you just don't trust all of us pastors and just all of us Christian teachers? I mean,
obviously, you have your own level of skepticism. And you've done your research and you believe the
way you do for a certain reason, right? Right. Those other Christians are obviously not all on
the same page about everything. And all doctors, they're not on the same page either. On vaccines
being effective? Yes, they are. I know many doctors that are skeptical of vaccination. To
say that they all agree is not true. If they didn't agree, they lost their license because
they didn't go along with the machine. That's not how that works. Here's ultimately the reason why
we don't promote vaccines or don't believe that people should take them is that Jesus said,
"He that is whole needeth not a physician." If you're not sick, don't put things inside your body
to make you sick. Do you take Tylenol? Well, if I'm sick. Did you get the COVID-19 vaccine? Yes.
Have you gotten the boosters? Yeah. How many? I think I've had four altogether. Did you ever
have any negative side effects? For the day after I got the shots, fever spikes up a little bit,
and it was intense. I couldn't do anything for a day, and then I was fine. If the government
tells you to do something, will you do it? No, I want to know who's saying it. It depends
on who's doing the stuff. So if Trump or his administration says stuff, would you find it
more skeptical? Fauci works under Trump. Yeah, but I'm just saying, in general. He also said
not to wear masks. Yeah, but Fauci. Fauci. When? At the beginning, and then he's like,
"Oh, never mind." Let's be fair. Did Trump hire Fauci? He worked in the government way before
Trump. Your question is, do you listen to what the government says? It's like, if Trump says
something, I'm not going to believe it. If the scientists ... What about Joe Biden? No, about
what? About anything. Are you skeptical of what Joe Biden says? If you think I'm a fan of Biden,
I am not. Okay. I just want to know. I'm just curious. Like a lot of Democrats. Do you think
that the left or Democrats are always right? No. Dude, no one hates Democrats more than other
Democrats. Well, I mean, to me, it almost seems like the Republican platform is very similar to
what Democrats used to be. I don't know if that's here. Well, on social issues, maybe. Maybe not
necessarily like foreign policy or some of those things. But on certain social issues, it seems
like the shift has come to where Republicans are very similar to what Democrats used to be in the
90s or early 2000s. I fully agree with kind of like what I was talking to you about before the
show about how my grandpa was like a Jack, you know, John Kennedy type of, you know, Democrat
or whatever. So since we're talking about politics, I this is a real question I have because I don't
think I've heard you both say things like you are not, I know you're not getting into politics in
your churches, but neither of you are fans of Trump. I know you're not fans of Democrats in
general, but you're also you don't seem like fans of Trump or the Republican Party in general.
Even if there's some overlap there, I am genuinely wondering, I don't know how you guys vote,
because it sounds to me from what I hear from your sermons, like, you have plenty of criticism
of Trump as well, but I would guess if you had to pick between the two that's where you're gonna go.
But I'm genuinely curious if... I don't know the answer to this. Like, am I right to just assume,
yeah, you're probably gonna vote for Trump or whoever the Republican is on the ballot,
or do you ever say, like, no, the Republican's just as bad, so I'm gonna say no, I'm not gonna
vote, or something like that? I don't vote. You don't vote? No. I didn't vote in the previous
election. Really? I have voted in the past, and it was usually Republican, mostly out of just
a lot of ignorance, just thinking like, well, if they're Republican, they're probably better
than the Democrats, so I'm just gonna vote Republican. Today, I'm not against voting,
in a sense. I think if there was a really good candidate that I liked, then I probably would
vote for them. Is there any candidate you would like? I find it very hard to believe. Like Ron
Paul seemed like a good candidate in times past. And so I think that he's a very libertarian. I
mean, I'm not like libertarian in general, I think that he had some good policies. So like,
I don't necessarily, I don't really care about the labels as much as I care about what they
actually believe or stand for. So someone that wants to shrink the government in general,
would be a positive for me. That would be, you know, something I would be interested in.
A couple other questions just to see if there's, I didn't get to all these, but we talk about like
primary sources and stuff. I think you have said, I'm quoting you here of the Holocaust,
"Did they kill six million? I doubt it, only if we were lucky."
Yeah, that's like one of your most popular articles about me or something.
It's a horrible thing to say, but I want to focus on the "I doubt it." I want to focus on the "I
doubt it." I will answer that, but can I first say that the context of that specific statement
was about people that are antichrists? Because I said that they're antichrists and Hitler was
an antichrist and I said if one antichrist kills another, then I'm not sad. So I'm not lumping
women and children and people that are just innocently just happen to be of a Jewish descent
as being killed that that would be lucky, okay? The context was about the idea of people that
worship Satan through the practice of Judaism and they're a literal antichrist because they
deny Jesus as the Christ. If an antichrist killed another antichrist, I wouldn't be sad.
I brought up that number just because it's just kind of in my mind like kind of a half joke,
kind of like funny, but obviously hilarious. Obviously not everybody gets my humor.
But the I doubt it is the thing that I want to focus on because it's like the you're clearly
saying it wasn't that many, whether that's a joke to you or not. But again, going back to where are
you getting this information from? There are primary sources who could tell you who are still
living today. This is what happened at Auschwitz. I lived through it. This is the extent you have
people historians who have studied that, like, I don't know where you get off saying I doubt the
numbers, because who are you going to rely on to give you those numbers then? That's my concern.
Yeah, I think it's unknowable. And like from my worldview, I would think probably millions
of Jews did die in World War Two. I just, I think they probably rounded up gratuitously to
the six million number because they like that number. Round up from what? I don't know. Like
I said, 1.3 rounded up to six. That sounds reasonable. That sounds reasonable. But again,
you know, I'm not, I'm not going to sit here and say that I know because I don't. I just make this
joke with people. I say, if I believe 5,999,999 Jews were killed, does that make me a Holocaust
denier? Because, because it seems like it does to people. And I just find that that level of,
of over the top bombastic attitude makes me suspicious a little bit of like, why, why can't
I, I be curious about this? Or why can't I ask questions? Or why can't I see the math on this,
and how you got there? And it seems like no, there are sources, there are sources that will
appeal to a 6 million number. But if you go historically, there are other sources that
didn't come to that number, and they kind of trickled up. What sources are you talking? I'm
not going to point to anything right this minute, because I'm just saying like, I think that there
are potentially other sources and other pieces of information that put suspicion to that specific
number. But again, I just think it's funny that you can't even balk at the number. You can't even
be suspicious of the number. To me, that raises alarm bells in my head. If you said, "It wasn't
6 million, it was 5.9 million, and I'm getting that for this reason," that's one thing. If you're
saying, "It's not 6 million," and then pretty much that's the end of the story. That's when
people go to the Holocaust denial route, where you're just saying, "I don't believe it. It wasn't
that many." That's too many. There's no way it was that many. Yeah, but why does it matter? Because
to me, let's say 3 million Jews were exterminated in World War II. Does that really undermine the
atrocity? To me, it doesn't really matter what the number is specifically. To me, the fact that I
can't even question anything about it underlies the idea that there could be something fallacious
about this particular people. But this is the same problem as the Sandy Hook thing where it's like
where if you don't trust the numbers that were given by people who study this stuff, they didn't
pull 6 million out of thin air. They didn't pull the number of Sandy Hook victims out of thin air.
They like number 6 though. What is that? They do like the number 6 and 6 million. Oh my god.
They're not pulling it out of their ass though. So like they're getting it from somewhere and I
don't get where you are like I'm pretty sure those experts don't know what they're talking about.
But why does it matter? Why would it matter to you? Because you're undermining expertise.
You're undermining expertise. This goes back to the vaccine thing. This goes to
the historian thing with the Holocaust which is there are people who dedicate their lives
to studying this stuff and I think the message you are sending your congregations is it doesn't
matter. They don't know anything. I don't really preach about the Holocaust very often. If I have
mentioned it I just say do your study for yourself because I don't really think that necessary but I
don't think that that's necessarily something that I should be preaching about as far as like
doctrine because it's not doctrine but if it's if they're interested in that then that's up to
them to study that. I just I recommend you know that they just try to find a book if you can but
it's against the law in most countries to even question the Holocaust. That's pretty weird that
it happened. Yeah no if you doubt the numbers you can go to prison for them if you say it yeah if
you say it didn't happen it's a that that that you can think it but if you say it out loud you go to
prison for that like it's pretty weird that you have to make a law you know to say that something
happened like what other what other yeah I mean what if it was six what if it was 6.5 million
like why can't we just investigate it and see all the information because the people who study it
for their lives have studied it i think that there's a clear ulterior motive there and so
like germany has a different set i'm not defending we're not defending i don't know it but like
do you believe in free speech like do you do you think that we should be silenced for our
viewpoints you're not silenced but do you believe we should be no you could say what you want but
i do think but are you excited like when youtube cancels us or deletes our channels or nukes us
that's not free speech first of all the youtube thing i did have this by the way to talk about
but the youtube thing they had their private company they have their rules in place you guys
have broken those rules not just you two other new ifb preachers as well they've broken those
rules on purpose like sometimes flaunting it then setting up sock puppet accounts to post other
videos of your sermons as well so the fact that youtube says okay you can't be on here anymore
that's not suppressing your free speech the fact that we're doing this live stream right now
on a site that has no policies about hate speech or anything like that they do they're just not
having arbitrary definitions there's a couple but i'm saying like if you were in charge of youtube
though yeah would you agree with that like would you want us to be off of the platform is kind of
my question yeah well then no silencing free speech no you have free speech no one's arresting you
for the things you are saying so the so the woman in oregon they got her business taken away and
fined a hundred and fifty thousand dollars sweet cakes by melissa because she wouldn't you know make
some queers a wedding cake or whatever do you think that i believe to do that i need to remember
which specific case that was my understanding a wedding cake my understanding is if you are selling
a cake and you're saying i'm selling this cake let's say it's 20 bucks or whatever you cannot
according to oregon law say well if someone comes in for example who's black and says i want to buy
that cake and you say i'm not going to sell it to you well that's obviously racial discrimination
and if a gay person comes in and says i want to buy this wedding cake that you are selling
and i'm going to pay you for it and stuff yeah saying that no i'm not going to sell it to you
specifically because i know what you're going to use it for yeah that's uh discrimination on
sexual orientation i believe that's the thing she did that they yeah but don't can't somebody
that sells guns think that someone's being suspicious and refuse to sell them the gun
because they're worried what they're going to do with that i'm not dodging the question i don't
know what the law is well if their religion you know prohibits that practice or they don't believe
that that's right don't they have the right to refuse service just like youtube has the right
you're saying youtube has the right to refuse service youtube to the speech that they don't
like if you're selling that lady was a private company so like youtube selling ads and they're
selling views so in a sense like why can't i have my viewpoint on youtube you're not owed
youtube space but is that the person owed a cake from this particular bakery if the company is
selling the product and you go youtube selling the product of ads they sell ads on videos and in
fact right now it's on all videos virtually i don't think unless you have a subscription ads
are being put on every single video i don't get the idea that if a private company says you can't
you violated our rules by the way if you weren't violating their rules you could be on their
platform like that you know well they're they change the rules every single week obviously
and everyone on youtube knows it and believe me everyone's frustrated because we never know what
the lines are but very clearly if they're saying you can't say the following things and they put
it out there and you violate they're just taking quotes from pastor minnis sermon and then putting
them as their community guidelines specifically that seems pretty targeted yeah it's a general
rule that applies but again if they say you can't have the things because you're violating our
guidelines that is not free speech they didn't violate their guidelines they made up new guidelines
after the fact and then they retroactively enforce them so that's that's targeting that's
targeting specific speech speech was still and for viewpoint what is what is hate speech oh my god
hate speech you are specifically saying you are specifically saying something awful because of
someone's what's something that's awful oh my god i'm not a lawyer here you're asking me something
that's not my expertise but i'm saying like if you're but you can't even define hate speech
and then we think we should throw people off of a platform because of it no the the company can set
the agenda for what their rules are i'm not necessarily defending youtube because i think
they go too far in certain areas you think that youtube has become a public utility because what
if not though i mean we can argue we can make the case the internet's public utility all kinds of
filth on youtube and that's allowed to be on there but and and that's a fair but then they just but
ours is hate speech when they're just like blast but google's pretty much the main search engine i
know but and youtube and google are hand in hand it's a monopoly and it's almost like saying it's
different conversation though yeah but is what about a phone what if i what if i said something
on my a phone conversation and they at and t says you can't have cell phone service or sprint or t
mobile because phones are public utilities yeah but again why are they public utilities because
there's a handful of people that have control all the power it's not one company it's it's a
handful of companies but they control the entire marketplace we're confused is not you to control
the marketplace if we want to criticize youtube there's no shortage of things we could talk about
because i have criticisms of youtube as well but it's not a free speech issue if they say these
people have violated our guidelines even though they are always changing so they can't be on our
plan and by the way they don't just say like they don't go from zero to your band they have their
strike policies i never got that i never went through that policy you definitely know they
they gave me no strikes and would just delete my channel yep which one the sock puppet accounts
are like the new ones the original ones all of them virtually every single account that i have
from us and pastor uh mihiya they i never went through the official three strike policy strikes
i don't want to take up too much more of your time but i do have a couple other things i went
can we ask a few questions too yeah absolutely you absolutely can um the have any of the pastors
in the new ifb said stuff where you felt went too far and and any issue or yeah i guess i mean of
course we don't agree with each other on things because we're independent so like there's going
to be times when we disagree on on minor doctrines or certain statements and and of course sometimes
we wish that maybe we worded things differently there's times where i listen to my own sermon
and i wish that i had worded things differently or maybe express myself better so i think that's
inevitable but generally speaking like i don't have a problem with any of my friends and i think that
they're doing a great job generally speaking but you know when him as for example uh said what he
said what what was his comment was i said that you know 49 that was almost got yeah so he made a
comment about he was celebrating the pulse mass we didn't celebrate it but he said am i sad no i'm
not sad i mean here's the thing i literally put it in a documentary so you know it's gonna be hard
for you to say that i didn't agree with it no so i know you agreed with that one but i'm saying in
general if they say something like that do you ever feel like those types of comments that your
colleagues might say ever go too far it's possible i don't i don't know of one if it if they went a
little like let's say they're in a kind of a gray area i'm just gonna side with them because i think
they're doing the lord's work and i want to be supportive of them generally speaking if they
genuinely crossed a real clear boundary line and it's inappropriate then if personally asked i'd
probably just give the right answer but i don't want to necessarily attack them like i wouldn't
necessarily criticize each other well we could i mean sometimes we call each other and talk
sometimes we criticize each other in a sense like we preach differently but maybe not call each
other out to like draw direct attention if we disagree like maybe on the interpretation of
a passage or something like when we get to that passage it's not like we go after each other on
purpose or something but like if we get to that passage then you know we'll just preach it how
we preach it and we know maybe how other people interpret that passage but usually it's just a
minor thing it's not some major doctrinal difference it's maybe just an interpretation
of a different that makes sense uh is divorce okay in your view i believe that people should
never divorce so then my question is if someone is in a bad marriage yes victim of abuse or
emotional abuse if not physical abuse like under what grounds would it be okay for someone to
leave a marriage well like i said i don't ever believe in divorce so it wouldn't matter what
scenario you dream up but at the same time if someone were genuinely like uh afraid of
their physical safety or there was some kind of a severe issue like it may there may be a reason
to separate temporarily just to try and get away from that particular issue like if someone says
like hey my i'm worried that my husband is going to literally kill me or kill my children or hurt
them and so we went to my mom's house just to like you know be away from them like i'm not going to
condemn that person for trying to potentially like stay away from abusive behavior but then go back
well again i do believe that wives should be subject to their husbands so you know here's here's the
thing i totally condemn spousal abuse i think it's wicked i wasn't suggesting husbands don't
never do it but here's the thing i wouldn't i would encourage that wife to stay with her husband
yes let's take it down a notch what if they just don't love each other is it ever okay for some
those two people to separate or are they doomed like well i made a mistake when i was 19
got married to someone i thought i loved guess what i was wrong is that okay because i think
you said this recently like men have it rough because women can just divorce you for any reason
no fault divorce um i it would be horrible if two people who loved each other got divorced that's
not what's happening there are reasons i don't have to know everyone's reasons but if people
get divorced it's probably there's probably a reason behind it and the fact that it's legal
for people to get divorced without citing abuse or something like that i see that as a step forward
um let people live their lives do what makes them happy because that's i mean it's yeah but i don't i
don't believe that divorce makes people happy i think that it's a it's a misnomer and a lie um
additionally like it causes destruction for many people there's a lot of victims of divorce in my
opinion but you know i've known people that had a really bad marriage and they even said audibly
like i don't love you anymore and i think they were being sincere it wasn't just like having a
random fight or something this was like a year period of time and then i know now they've
restored their marriage and they're and they're back together so so just because people may be
having a bad spot in their marriage and think that divorce is the right um door to take you know if
that door was out of the equation like it's not even an option i think it would cause many more
people to work on their marriage and resolve their issues and fix them because marriage is two centers
people are imperfect love is a thing that you have to work at and so you know if people have
that mentality i think you'll be more careful who they choose to marry they would treat it more
carefully and that marriages would generally be better overall because they wouldn't have this
escape door and i think it's probably more people are prolonging when they get married these days
right like they're they're afraid of divorce i don't even know it's that but it's i'm going
to figure out what i want first then get married as opposed to marrying young when i'm still not
settled in my own life and i don't necessarily know what i want but i'm saying like if if they're
going into marriage later in life because they have a better sense of what they're looking for
that probably leads to a stronger marriage but going back to your point of if they are getting
divorced they've probably decided there is no path forward to make this work i see that then
that's a good reason to separate and it's probably if you know people whose parents have gotten
divorced like i've know plenty of people who said yeah my parents constantly at each other's throats
they did not love each other and after they got divorced everything was better for us as kids
because guess what having those two people in the household was not better for us it made our life
hell and so going back to my question of like is divorce okay i think there are plenty of cases
when it is i don't think you guys believe that it's ever okay and i'm trying to figure out like
there are some cases when things are really bad you're living in a bad yeah but if divorce
wasn't on the table i think those people could have still reconciled and the family life could
have been better but you know as well as i do that doesn't always happen oh sure and i'm not saying
that it does but at the end of the day divorce is devastating to both parties it hurts both parties
it hurts children if there are children in the situation i think it does just just period now
whether or not it dramatically affects them is you know not always going to be the case people can
be strong people can get over things and obviously if children are older it's maybe less likely that
it'll have a major impact but at the same time i think it's it's damaging to society it's damaging
to the institution of marriage and i think that people should not be waiting to get married
because they're usually committing a lot of sin in that waiting period and they're bringing all
this baggage into the relationships they have and i think it's probably going to cause them to be
more likely to even get divorced that sounds like you're saying jump into it before you know what
you're jumping into no i think you should totally know the person and and have confidence in who
they are and have sincere feelings of love towards that individual when you're young and you i got
married at 21 which is young and we're about to celebrate 15 years here in just a few days yeah
and we're we're great we have a great marriage and that's wonderful that's not the case for
everybody sure but i think the reason why people struggle in their marriage is not putting god
first they're not being uh selfless in their relationship they're being very selfish and i
think unfortunately selfish people think getting divorced will fix it when many times it's not
the case we see the divorce rate increase actually if someone commits i'm sorry if someone gets
divorced they're actually more likely to get divorced again when they get married they have
a higher chance of getting divorced so if divorce was a positive decision i would think we would see
the inverse i think we would see people getting divorced and then the next time around they're
like oh now i know what i want now i have a better sense of who i should be married to and what i gel
with but we actually see an opposite effect of individuals who get divorced statistically
generally speaking have that happen and i don't know why that's worse than like a couple that
doesn't love each other or fights constantly who stay married for 50 i don't for 50 years or
something i don't get why longevity is like the pinnacle of success there as opposed to
all right you got divorced three times but yeah but they're probably going to argue with anybody
people argue marriage is ugly marriage has low spots it has high spots and marriage is you know
an institution where you choose to love someone regardless of their faults that's what true love
is and so the picture of marriage is saying i will unconditionally love you till death do us part
and that's a beautiful thing it's a beautiful thing to see someone that will be willing to love
you even with all your faults even no matter what sins or what problems you have that's a beautiful
thing and it's being destroyed by this ejection seat called divorce today where someone says i
don't think you're treating me well enough or i don't like you enough and it shows they don't
genuinely have love in their heart towards an individual jose in the bible was commanded to
stay married to an adulterous woman which for most men that's probably the worst thing that
the wife could do and i personally think that as well but jose stayed with her and was a faithful
husband and loved her and so that's a beautiful picture of how christ loves us even though we are
very sinful and transgress against him continually that he loves us and you could never lose your
salvation that sounds very nice my concern is if someone in your church or your kids or something
like that came to you and said this is a bad marriage for whatever the reason is the option is
yeah but leaving that bad marriage is not an option in your view for those people and that to
me contributes to down the road i think most of you if not all kids want their parents to stay
together and most people that i know that their parents did get divorced they've told me that
they wish their parents had stayed together i'm not saying there couldn't be an exception of that
i'm not saying i could tell you the exact opposite sure i'm not saying that that doesn't exist
but most of the time from my experience it's that kids wish their parents were together
i've seen the devastation of a lot of children and their their attitudes changing having behavioral
issues after their parents get divorced my mother was a child psych uh psychologist and therapist
and she dealt with a lot of children that had unfortunately very rough home lives and divorce
was often in that scenario so i think it's it's very if you just if we could get all the statistics
and all the the proper data i think we would show that even carnally speaking there's a negative
impact but even if that wasn't true the bible's clear jesus said what god what what god has joined
together let not man put asunder and and that's what i believe so i think that there's carnal
reasons but ultimately i i appeal to scripture and i think that jesus wants marriage to be
till death do us part he hated the putting away yeah he hates it and i'm saying that he wants
to bad results i'm sure he wants it well i'm sure you want the quote that you're you were talking
about is where i'm upset about no fault divorces yeah here's what happens the women or whoever can
just say i want to divorce you because you're ugly or i don't like you your breast stinks or
whatever yeah no fault but what happens is the woman always gets custody or split custody but
in general the woman gets the custody or alimony or child support in most cases 92 you know it's a
huge percentage of the of the wife the former wife getting custody and so then the the husband's
screwed he's got child support he has to pay for the rest until they're all 18 years old or even
into college if they go to college and then it's just it just destroys them if it destroys their
lives okay i don't know the stats off the top of my head if there was more parity in the child
support alimony stuff like so it wasn't screwing over one side but you would still be against it
though like well because jesus is against it and so we have to appeal to scripture like you've heard
you've heard and i i respect the fact world yeah i mean the southern baptist right now going through
a huge thing because there's so many pastors who have said over and over no stay with your abusive
husband it'll get better he's coming to church now like and they just end up staying in these
bad bad marriages when it's like there's violence or sexual abuse i think that they should leave
and not get divorced but that's i don't know i personally better well i mean what's divorcing
gonna help i mean divorcing is not going to help the situation is it it a hundred percent will help
how what's the wait what's the alternative separating but not just separate and not i mean
again teaches in first corinthians chapter i've heard of i've heard advice and i agree with this
that pastors would say you know try to try to work on treating your husband better and there's
been cases where the women did try to be a better wife despite the horrible circumstances they're
under and it did change their marriage and it did get better so i would encourage them to continue
doing so until until death do us part i mean there was some southern baptist you make vows i don't i
don't think that men out there are just beating up a proverse 31 woman i mean according to the bible
the proverse 31 woman is just like going out of her way to make all the meals be so polite never
nagging just like always at the house just taking care of everything like i just don't think that's
happening so i think that women could prevent themselves from a lot of physical abuse in that
scenario no there are plenty of women who are like i've done everything that's not why abuse
happens because she's obedient like and that's the wrong way to think about it disobedient you mean
yeah because she's disobedient so that's not why it happens but again what would it take to change
your mind on that like do you need to hear from a woman who has been beaten up even though she was
case submissive obedient you know sometimes we talk about these things in a vacuum obviously if a man
was being abusive to his family like there should probably be some crime or punishment for that
individual and that person should be held accountable for their actions right like we
can't just doing something illegal per se yeah that man that's how it happens most of the time
like they're not physically abusing them to the point that you've committed a crime or anything
but let's just stick with like emotionally abusive i don't love you we're not happy together to me
that's like okay well go be happy your kids are better off when you're both happy so go separate
well hey abigail in the bible had a bad marriage and you know what she literally prayed that her
husband would die and she like cursed him and god killed him so does it always come back to death
with you people well but we're talking about such an extreme scenario so death is usually in the
context no but he was no not everybody's he actually was if you have questions feel free
yeah i want to ask a few questions too um first of all i wanted to ask do you watch the sermons
or do you have other people watch them for you i wish i had a staff of people i do not it's me
always you how how many sermons do you think you've watched too many i i don't have a number for you
okay now you watch a lot of people because because i've seen clips you have um uh greg lock john
mcarthur i've seen other charismatic preachers a lot of new iv preachers who's your favorite
preacher define favorite well i'll i'll weigh it into the one you listen to the most and then the
one you want to listen to the most um i don't want to listen to any of you is it like a moth of flame
or what's the deal sometimes um depends on the subject if something bad happened uh pulse night
club massacre something like that happens then i'm definitely curious because i figure you're
gonna say something about it um if the sermon is about some bible chapter that is pretty random
yeah i probably don't care um with someone like greg lock uh who i don't think you guys are fans
of either no uh he has a lot of people who watch his stuff because he talks about politics all the
time i don't feel the need to watch a lot of his stuff because other people will flag if anything
comes up um i don't think uh so that's it it's there's i kind of have a sense of i know there
are certain people who watch these people uh and so so you have no favorite their favorite's the
wrong word it what about least favorite is that does that apply all of you are my least favorite
equally equally like you are like my bad like what about catholic priests do you think that
they're better than us in general they're boring okay it's it's just very because you don't really
listen to i guess a lot of other denominations from my viewpoint you kind of care is charismatics
maybe you know what it is catholics are well known i know how they preach most people who have been
involved in the catholic church know what to expect from them so there's no surprises coming
from them that's why really the only time if the catholic church makes any news it's if the pope
did an interview on 60 minutes or some bishop said something egregious or there's a sex abuse
scandal or a lawsuit something like that um those are newsworthy most of the stuff they do is not
generally that interesting or newsworthy right i don't think people are paying attention to what
the new ifb does as much i believe as you probably know it is growing uh to some degree and the thing
i think it serves a couple purposes to point out the things you guys say because i genuinely
believe you believe you are following the bible and saying hey look these people follow the bible
and this is what ensues from that and these are the things they say i think it's interesting to
point that out and it doesn't mean you represent the vast majority of christianity you don't
but it's like you're you're almost making my point for me which is that if you're blind is your
problem really with our version of christianity or is your problem with the fact that the bible
says these things and we're really we're really doing those things like is your problem really
with the bible or is it with us how we approach the bible it's your focus on certain scriptures
as opposed to the rest of the i like i don't remember hearing you guys give a big sermon
of the on the sermon of on the mount like you don't spend a ton of time talking about
jesus has helped the poor let's do that because that doesn't come up very often not nearly as
much as the anti-gay stuff does or things like when it when it comes to your upbringing i'm
curious were you raised a calvinist no were you raised christian no were you raised j-a-i-n it's
a smaller small religion okay yeah is it a form of hinduism it's there's a little bit of overlap
it's it's relatively minor uh in terms of numbers uh but it they believe in heaven and hell and
karma and reincarnation and some things like that when so i preached a sermon and a lot of it had
to do with you you you know you know the sermon i'm bringing up kind of right there's been a couple
well there was there was one it was like i i mentioned like himet med is a fool or something
like that okay you made a comment where you said it's like my parents are are writing this guy's
sermon or something what was that what did that mean oh i mean if you're one of asian parents are
super critical of their kids always so just like me calling you fool is similar to how your parents
would call you a fool or something oh yeah but it didn't have anything with christianity no more
just like mocking you as being dumb or something yeah so do you feel like your parents made fun
of you a lot critical it's not making fun it's like it's never good enough you know what i mean
like do do they look at you as like a success no they don't know what i do okay they just confused
about being a political commentator they don't know what a commentator or whatever i genuinely
think if you ask them what does hemmen do for a living they don't know the answer he watches
new ip sermons i know i don't think i don't think they could tell you i write about stuff what i
write about what i talk about i'm sure they have a general sense that i do something to do with
religion uh which isn't what they intended for me to be doing uh so that's it we don't really talk
about it we don't have arguments about it it's just uh yeah whatever you do your thing i don't
think they know what i do but i'm not a doctor i'm not a lawyer yeah you i understand that's where
the the oh you're calling me a fool yeah well guess what i hear that all the time so what does
in your opinion the bible say someone has to do to be saved except jesus and what does that mean
uh believe in his divinity uh i mean if you what do you think salvation according
to the bible is by works or by faith depends on your interpretation i think it's by faith
yeah it's not by works i i think that is how most evangelicals and christians southern baptists
protestants that's how they see it and again there's a lot of difference on the specific
theologies and stuff sure so the question of what is it that binds all of you together i mean the
list has to be short because everyone has different opinions on that but yeah that's
the fundamental thing it's like yeah you accept the divinity of jesus salvation through him alone
stuff like that do you have a favorite sermon uh no okay you you label us hate preachers pretty
often what makes me a hate preacher it's not that you say homosexuality is a sin because
that's almost standard for probably everyone yeah that's pretty much most christian other than like
united methodists or something yeah pretty much uh-huh some um only some it's that next step to say
because they're gay they deserve the death penalty because they act on it they deserve
the death penalty that the government should execute them that crosses the line into no you
don't you're not just saying it's a sin and just like gluttony is a sin just like these other things
are a sin because that is what some preachers will say right yeah it's a sin but we believe all these
things are sins and they're all equally sinful it's that special focus on certain sins above other
ones that i think you give to it and the way you think it ought to be dispensed when it comes to
the punishments that to me is that's so so if i believe in the death penalty for murders and
adulterers but i didn't believe it for homosexuals would i still be a hate preacher for people who
took someone else's life and sorry you said murderers and for murders and adulterers let's
say i believe in the death penalty for murders and adulterers but i didn't believe it in hope
for homosexuals would i still be a hate preacher if you said people who commit adultery should be
executed yeah i think when you say people should have i haven't i said that haven't i said that
what that home that adultery should be punished with the death penalty not with the same oomph
not with the same probably not as many sermons that are talking about it but i've said it right
i'm i believe you've said it so does that here's a question is hate ever okay depends how you want
to define it against who for what again do you hate anybody i hate plenty of people okay it's
the thing where does that make you a hate podcaster because i don't spend my day saying if i if all i
did every day is like posted about people that you don't like why why do you do you post like
how many positive posts do you have on your twitter or are they all negative they're all
negative okay so does that make you a hate podcaster no no here's why i'm saying i'm just
trying to play your logic you're not saying this gay person is bad because they did this bad thing
you jumped i did this because they were gay you're jumping to the assumption that this person is gay
that makes them more likely to be a pedophile that sort of leap you don't know that person that
person didn't do anything wrong but you're assuming the worst possible outcome even if they didn't i
still want them to be with the death i know and that's to me that's that line i don't cross that
line i don't like a lot of people i would never say let's execute so you might hate people or
hate me or hate i don't think about people that much do you think the death penalty should be
applied to anyone for any reason no so like if we found a serial killer that killed 30 people
put them in jail for life if that person is guilty you think that's better than executing
yes why i don't think the death penalty is correctly applied i think there's a lot of
people who can and have slipped through the cracks because someone wanted a guilty verdict for you're
just saying like because of innocent people you don't want it but if it was perfectly implemented
would you yeah but that's not the world yeah but wait a minute if if it's someone innocent
why would rotting in prison be better than being executed because because because the insane cases
they're wrongfully yeah justice did not work in that case you're right like that's why the
opportunity for the appeals process and all that stuff but there are people who as far as we know
did not do the crime they were found guilty of like i can show you those cases and the proof
behind it i find the death penalty to be immoral in general um but for the people who are who
there's no doubt about their guilt they did it they commit they i just think your punishment's
worse personally but let me ask this if jesus christ came down from heaven and showed himself
to you if there was proof like he was saying he's in person he's talking to you and he he shows
himself to you would you choose to believe in him and believe the bible yeah i mean you're going
back to if there was actual proof in front of your face would you believe it i think pretty
much every atheist i've ever met has said yeah okay i feel like i've met people or heard people say
even if he did i still wouldn't want to believe in him because they just kind of hate the bible
and they say that like openly the hate of the bible like that's not it's never do you feel like
you hate the bible no i don't think about the bible it's like it's a book you disagree with it
obviously but i'm just saying you don't necessarily hate the bible i don't think about the bible right
so you do commentary on it though i do commentary it's a job at this point like i talk about it i
write about but i'm you know this if you followed anything i do i really don't spend time debating
this stuff i don't spend time talking about this verse is wrong or anything like that my interest
is making videos proving every single verse wrong that was almost a joke i mean the the the videos
i made that you're talking about it started as kind of a i think i can point out the contradictions
in genesis one and two and that might be amusing to some people and then it just kept going but
by and large most of the stuff i do that i write about that i actually spend a lot of time on
it's what are people doing with their beliefs and like if someone said i'm inspired by jesus to help
the poor that's great i don't spend a lot of time on it do i think they're wrong about the belief
stuff i do but i don't really care enough to write about that that's not that interesting to me
on the other hand if you guys say you believe in the bible and that's leading you to say the
things you have said that i have shared with people that to me is like okay well that's a
problem in my view let's share that let's talk i want christians to have to defend you guys
i wish i'm i'm almost mad that i'm the guy that pays attention to what you all say and other
christians are not i want more and it's not just you there's if john macarthur that you brought
up or greg glock says something i wish more christians would call it out um because stuff
they say is harmful not just i disagree with it and it's wrong it's like no you are saying
something that is harmful where are christians on that i've said that many times like why is it that
there are right wing watch dog groups right wing watch being one of them or media matters or
whatever that are following what people on the right say about things why aren't they
policed by their own people in any way um if someone in your congregations disagreed or had
a problem with things you said i can't count on any of them to call you out on it you know what i
mean they do maybe they do i mean privately but they're not going to do it in a way that anyone
else will hear about and that to me is like okay well then have you seen our trolls i mean
we preach a lot of sermons and and inevitably like i think that most of them are pretty boring to
the general populace it seems like you're focused on identifying homosexuality as a regular course
of action of like pointing out these clips so like why are you gay say that again why are you gay
based on what because i focus on like you just like why would a straight guy care so much about
homosexuals why do you think i care so much because you're gay no i do i'm married i have kids to a
girl yes was she born a girl she was okay she's still identify as a girl this is where i don't
think you guys have empathy what do you mean what i take away from your sermons but wait a minute
how how can i have no empathy i i am interested in this there's no way you think that we're that
dangerous because i don't think you would ever be willing to come into this room and have a
conversation with us which is an arguably hostile environment to you and if we were really dangerous
or something like that i don't think you're dangerous i think if i were gay i don't think
you would be dangerous to me in the flesh like this either my concern is less about you guys
and the other preachers my concern is as you grow as the new ifb grows and as more people are drawn
to this and again one thing you do very well is that you know how to use online stuff like that
is how your church has grown it's through like some of it for sure a lot of it like has grown
through online rumble youtube whatever it is um steven anderson knows that like that's how he's
grown too as that stuff grows and i've seen what happens when people fall down those rabbit holes
online and they fall into these areas where again this is not i'm not criticizing like the
fact that you're white or something but when men who especially white men speak with confidence
about anything there are people who are drawn to that and take it as gospel and like but i just
think people are drawn to the truth you're drawn to the truth because you listen to our preaching
of course i want to ask this question though they are drawn to you i can't control what those people
do and my fear is when they hear what you are saying not the boring stuff because i'm guessing
a lot of them aren't listening to the boring stuff but they are listening when you were talking
and you know this too because you get excited when you talk about this stuff when you were
preaching about i got really excited about zechariah chapter 4 last night and when you
preach about gay people on wednesday at least you know that gets attention and people see it and
the comments uh on the live chat i wish i didn't have to preach about it and here's the thing if
the laws were the the way they were the way that i wish they were they were in the past i don't
think we would be preaching about it very much but can't you admit at least in the culture that's a
major issue that are being brought up i mean there's a whole month celebrating lgbtq in june i mean
it's not like this is a minor thing it's it's obviously a big culture issue a lot of people
are directly impacted by it black history month okay i mean but again like i'm not black history
month is not something that i have to worry about because i don't go to work and they
worry about that they don't care yeah but i have people protesting my church literally
because of it i have people damaging my property because of it literally don't damage your property
i fully on board yeah but i'm just saying like it's hard to say that i protest you can ignore
yeah but you have women and children coming into your building and you have people screaming at
them threatening them and all this it's it's hard to say that i'm not going to touch on those issues
or preach about it because it's going to be a little bit more prevalent when you're dealing
with it literally why do you think they're protesting your church and not the southern
baptist church down the street because they didn't preach the things that i preached of course right
but they do believe the same stuff about no most well that's true but they don't believe in the
death penalty for them right and those comments are what caused a lot of uh controversy caused
us to get public attention yeah and and draw a lot of people out but i think that it's also because
they're they're reprobates and they does they still are attracted to the truth and i'm just kind of
curious like do you think that you're a reprobate about what like according to the bible roman's
chapter one according to the bible but why i'm sure if you want to list whatever sins that you
say the bible says are sins yeah but do you think it's possible for you to believe in jesus christ
yeah show me the proof right like this is the part we're listening the bible said it was by
faith right you even admitted that so that's not that's not physical evidence yeah i mean so
would do you think it's possible for you to believe in jesus by faith it's possible it's
possible it's probably not going to happen at this point well i mean as much preaching as you've
heard it would it would definitely surprise me to say the least but of course that would be great
i would want sure i would want anybody to be saved even someone like you because i don't personally
hate you i actually like the clips that you make because because you always pull out like honestly
you pull out the best parts of all my friend's sermons so i don't have to wade through all of
the other stuff that i didn't want to listen to i can just hear the cool cut out and you you usually
get really good sound bites and you put them together so honestly i enjoy the clips i've even
retweeted several of your clips because i thought they were good the flip side of that though is
there anything that would change your mind about being christian at this point no but i mean that's
that's the same as like many things like i would never believe santa claus is real i would never
believe two plus two is five i would never deny who my parents are i mean i look exactly like my
dad like you could never convince me my dad's not my dad and the bible teaches when you get saved
it's like your eyes are opened so here's the thing after my eyes have been opened i could never be
convinced that i never saw before yeah but if i told you yeah there's no chance i'm gonna become
a christian ever i'm never gonna find i will maybe i'm never gonna find god at this point like if i
said that you would say oh you're close-minded it could happen whatever why is that not the same the
other way around well i could say i'm i'm fine with saying i'm close-minded because i've already
found the the truth like once i've found the truth like i said i'm close-minded as santa claus being
real i'm never gonna believe the earth is flat i'm never gonna believe i heard you know i'm never
gonna believe certain things so that doesn't make me a close-minded person just because
i have certain dogmas in my life i'm sure you have certain dogmas in your life and there's
certain things that you already know are true or you hold too dearly that you would never change
your mind on and that doesn't mean that we can't still have other conversations and be open-minded
in certain dialogues most atheists that i have talked to worked with in the past every single
one of them would say what i'm saying to you which is yeah fine show me the proof or show me
i'm i'm it's possible i think dockins who i'm not a fan of but richard dockins said in his book
too he's not a fan of you he is very much not but even i didn't know that oh yeah what's the deal
he even said like if you want to say like you are saying i'm fully convinced god exists and let's
put you on one end of a spectrum and if i'm saying i don't believe in god and i'm on opposite side
sure he's like i'm not there i'm a little before that like i'm pretty convinced but like i'm sure
there's something that could open my mind to most atheists i know would be in that same position
um not to change subject i did have one question i did want to ask this is more for uh pastor
thompson that's fine which is that you said teachers who teach sodomy should be shot in the
back of the head that is a quote my question is what do you think they are teaching in school
well if they're teaching sodomy in school what does that mean that they're teaching that that you
might be a boy or or you might be a woman trapped in a man's body and all this other stuff
look they're hanging pride flags in their classrooms what is that wait wait wait go one at a time here
for a second when are teachers teaching kids yeah you could be wherever the laws are in place that
they've that they've changed the laws where you can teach it pride flag let's say there is a pride
flag in the classroom or something they're saying i'm a queer that's what they're saying and you
could be one too no they're not saying they're they're actively promoting sodomy in schools
whether it's the law or not it's a fact the furry thing is real it's not do you know why they have a
kitty litter box in that one classroom that you mentioned which you said you looked up sources do
you know why they have a kitty litter box in the classroom because in the act of a school shooting
if kids are locked down in their classroom for an extended period of time and someone has to go to
the bathroom that's why they have a kitty litter box in there it's not regardless of that no no
there are there are furries that are at school and they're kids that are pretending to be dogs
and cats and they're allowed to do this they're not doing that okay but again this is going back to
i have taught in a public school isn't there isn't there some schools though you attended a
long time ago they weren't allowed to do that back but i also taught in them relatively recently and
i work with kids in a public school now and i'm trying to figure out like even in a sex ed class
or something they're not teaching that what class do you have but wait a minute because because
everything i understand there could be an ally like someone could put up the flag and they're
not necessarily teaching it or promoting it but they're they're just saying we we want to be
tolerant sure we want to help kids feel safe or something and that's why they do it yes but isn't
there some school districts where they have demonstrated certain books that literally have
what seems like pornographic type material or children committing sodomite type acts albeit
maybe it's characters drawn it's not necessarily physical photos or something i mean is that
teaching sodomy if you literally have sodomite acts in books and they're handing them out to
children is that not teaching them sodomy this is where context matters and i think it's a fair
point if you want to have a conversation like what i would want to have is you tell me the book you
tell me what passage you have because there are classic books that might have a sex scene in it
and in that case let's discuss like what is it that we have a problem with is it the description
because i i don't think it should be in like taught to kids if it's just a sex scene for the
sake of that i'm making this up like if it's romeo and juliet or if it's a young adult novel
where some kid masturbates or something and whatever i don't know what the scene would be
and i don't know what the purpose of that would be but the question is what is the point of why
we're trying to teach a particular book um heather has two mommies is that one heather has two mommies
but that's not taught in school that's not taught in school but if it's in a library
and a kid well they have drag queens coming into schools and reading them books like that is that
not true in public schools yes yes very few have virtually none have drag queens coming in it that's
probably where's your news source man i mean it's no it's if you want to do it at public libraries
too yeah library is different from like a school bringing someone into schools are doing it but
the point is like okay so a drag queen comes in they're not doing a strip show they're not reading
a book saying anything it's someone coming in very colorful wearing stuff like well here's the thing
i don't care what excuse somebody wants to give about their behavior they're obviously a homosexual
and they should be put to death are we talking about a drag queen if a drag queen's coming into
schools teaching well if it looks like a duck quacks like a duck what purpose would a would
that sexual dance have to do with children who's doing a sexual dance where drag queens are dressed
like a stripper but they're a dude they're not dressed like all drag queens are doing that there
are drag shows that are adult themed i will grant you that the ones who are doing readings at public
libraries sometimes in some places all the dragons on their heads it looks like the serpent from
revelation show for kids and they're not reading sex scenes to kids that is well i wouldn't put
anybody i wouldn't be a palestinian what are you talking about i wouldn't put anybody to death for
that but i would put them to death again for being a sodomite and if they commit a sodomite act which
i'm sure that individual is guilty of i'm sure if a man's dressed up like a literal drag queen
you're literally sure committed sodomy you're literally skipping the whole let's go through
the court of justice no no i'm not skipping anything i'm saying we wouldn't i wouldn't bring
up in court this person read books to children i wouldn't bring that it'd be like this person
committed this act and they have these are the witnesses the evidence is the proof witnesses
no but there could be witnesses this is the where do you i taught at a public school i work with
public school children i know what they teach i have friends because i was there yeah but schools
change all the time they do and it's based on an individual it's not based on every teacher teaches
this exact same thing but i'm saying like where in the curriculum what do you think they're
teaching about sodomy where does that happen i don't think there's any state-sponsored curriculum
that there is of course there's not there's individuals pass the law or allowing it in
schools allowing what the the teaching of sodomy no they're pretty sure just a way that's the law
like i want to know what that law would be that you were referring to that yeah i don't have it
off the top i mean there's plenty of teachers that have just been self-admitting saying they're
teaching it you read that quote i said if they are teaching that though in their two children
in classrooms that they should be shot in the back of the head which would make them their
teachings their teeth they're corrupting children but you're making up something that doesn't exist
and again my fear is i don't think that's i think there's plenty of examples there are people who
are going to hear that and they say well i have a teacher that has a pride flag in the classroom
and my fear is they're going to jump to that conclusion i think that's that's a big leap
and it is a big leap and we're not should have it in the classroom though what what why should
they have that in the classroom what the pride flag why why let kids who are gay because that is the
age when they but is there a straight flag why don't we put a straight flag same reason is
there a black flag or hispanic flag we need white history month we need jan you're jane what have
white history month what's wrong with white people majority you don't need it for minorities we don't
need it do everybody else is special except for us no i'm just saying that like there's definitely
a bias against white people now no you're in the majority so you're doing right now but it's not
gonna happen if you become 40 percent of the population nothing well what do you see happening
now white people are being you know well our country is becoming a lot more or less christian
yes it's it's definitely declining in some industries in some areas do you think christians
are persecuted yeah who do you mean who would you who would you rather be if you're if you're the
i would never be a fag because that's disgusting if you're i'm you're missing my point you're saying
if christians are persecuted someone's got to be doing the persecuting like which group do you
think has it better than you guys do as well well here's the things have it better because they got
the red carpet rolled out for them over everything i don't have to look for there i don't i don't i
will agree with you that i think that being a homosexual in america they're treated worse than
i am yes because here's the thing the vast majority of people like me like the vast majority of people
inter have i positive interactions with they're excited to see me or my kids or my family i have
really good interactions whereas i think most homosexuals people are disgusted by them they
treat them poorly they treat them badly they're discriminated against you will never hear gay
people maybe some stupid off chance person but like gay people are not saying let's execute these
preachers or that's what it is i have about five thousand emails i have five thousand emails and
voicemails that disagree with you not trolls online i'm saying like there's no if there was a
collective is every homo a troll well here's the thing i agree with you i think homosexuals are
probably treated worse but that's because they're gross they're disgusting and so there's just
assumptions you know it's a natural reaction to be repulsed by those individuals so you know men
men find effeminacy gross and repulsive men find men having a desire towards another man gross
this is another thing i find annoying about you guys which is that you think something objective
and then you jump to no no no wasn't there wasn't there an article that literally said that they did
a brain scan study and they said when men see maggots they have the same reaction to faggots
like when they're seeing like homosexual and they said you that's not a study you show me that i
want to i want to pull up the article because there's a literal article that said that men
someone maybe someone can find it someone can find it and text it to me there's an article that
literally says that straight men have the same reaction to seeing maggots and dead flesh as to
seeing two men kiss or seeing if they're not interested in it i'm sure stuff they don't want
to do that's not like who cares that's they're just natural inclination in it right right what
do you feel when you see those types of things where am i seeing these types of things in any
film on hollywood or anything i don't think it's like all right two guys whatever it's not my thing
but like when you see it does i mean obviously most men that don't have those feelings at all
they're gonna find it repulsive i don't think about it it doesn't come up oh man okay straight
let's see if we can read the article straight men's physiological stress response to seeing two men
kissing is the same as seeing maggots straight men's yeah that was again but i'm just that's the
vast majority okay so it's saying so i'm just saying this is a literal article you said men
well you're but my point is if obviously fags wouldn't feel that way that was my point is if
you're saying like they might even actually if two guys if two guys don't want to see maggots and two
guys and guys who are straight don't want to see gay men kissing it's like yeah okay they're they
don't like it fine but i'm just saying by our natural read that i don't know what it says the
context of this this commentary was based on how homosexuals are probably treated worse in society
yeah and it's it that's one of the evidences because people go to see movies all the time
they see chick flicks they see men and women kissing and they they don't find that gross
whereas when men see other men being affectionate towards each other it's gross they feel awkward
it's not it's like it's disgusting that's why the bible said it's vile affections
adultery you said is the same type of sin but i'm sure you've seen movies tv shows where other men
and women are doing something together are you repulsed by that it's not well it does it is it
is it is there's a certain level of disgust with it but it's not the same i would agree that it's
not necessarily the same level of disgust but yeah if i found out okay look i found out people
personally like close to me were committing adultery and it made me feel sick to my stomach i felt
horrible about it i was upset about it i was disgusted by it and it does make me feel really
bad about that person but it's not as bad as them being a homosexual that's worse objectively for
me at least for you but again i'm just saying you guys extrapolate then i would way rather be a
christian because christians are treated better generally speaking but from a government perspective
we just identify to the government i think the government is not treating christians as fairly
as they do homosexuals i think generally the populace treats me way better the people like us
what is the government do as a christian under the well his thing i can't use youtube and not a
government yeah but the government has been involved in dealing with the twitter files and
with other social medias trying twitter i guess the government went to these companies and told
them specifically to censor content no it didn't i got banned from twitter specifically and twitter
files released that they had communications with the fbi in relation to censoring certain
conservative accounts not only that i have a lot of i'm not even to say it all but there's a lot
of things that have happened to me and i guarantee that the government's been involved in it i have
people that have told me specifically that the government has been dealing with some of these
situations so yes i do believe that the government is not treating christians as fairly as they are
homosexuals because i think there's a homosexual agenda being pushed by certain individuals in
there though so yeah from a government perspective we're being persecuted from a people perspective
no i don't think so people love christians i visit all kinds of countries people love us
people treat us really great i'm trying to figure out like which which state has laws that make it
harder to be a christian versus being anything else um well there's muslim countries and there's
other countries not other countries christians no no no and i'm not defending like theocracies
in other countries or anything like that that's not okay either um i will grant you there are
christians literally persecuted in other countries in here in the u.s though like it's it's uh it's
coming out i mean it's not though well i think in the bible it alludes to it and it will happen
something i have found right now i write about this stuff it's not physical violence sure but
it's it's going to get to that level and would you call people out that were saying i think
christians should be put to death by the government yes yeah why wouldn't i call that out i'm just
i'm just curious that's horrible okay well and here's the thing we've we've had a long
conversation and i appreciate you being willing to even talk with us i am kind of curious though
like why why why do you want to have this conversation like from your perspective like
me thinking you i'm thinking he wants to get us to say something really awful in his mind that
he can post on twitter and get more views i'm just kind of genuinely curious like why would
you want to have a conversation with us i'm fascinated by you guys i i think i'm just very
intrigued by the way you preach why you preach it um you strike me as people who i don't doubt
your sincerity with the beliefs i find them repulsive have we preached anything that's
loving yes have you preached have we preached anything that you agreed with i mean general
stuff sure but when you say there's things that we preach that are repulsive is this the vast
majority of our preaching in your opinion no it's not it's just a handful of things but it's a lot
of handfuls of things and it's the stuff you get more excited about than other stuff and again
there's a reason i think you do it more i if you spend more time on the caveats to all your
horrible things and less time on the they deserve the death penalty um i it wouldn't be that
interesting but it's the gleefulness after like a tragedy it's just a fascinating horrible thing
drawn to like a car accident in a sense um and after years of watching those sermons and hearing
this stuff and it's like trying to sound the alarm i'm i want to talk to you now because i
don't want to have to talk to you after someone in one of your congregations takes the wrong message
and goes off and plays if someone commits murder i'll condemn murder you know i'm not going to be
i'm not going to be happy about that and i don't want someone to do that and i feel like in the
same i hope that i hope that no but they kind of know i hope that no one in my church are affiliated
with any of our movement ever kills anybody for any reason i don't even want to be self-defense
because i'm afraid that if someone defended themselves properly that it would be twisted
and it would almost be like oh these guys are are quick triggered or they want to hurt people
i believe you when you say that i don't want to hurt the message that we have right i i want
genuinely for our government to change and to get back to biblical laws and i think it's a far
stretch i don't think it's very likely it's probably very unrealistic that it'll ever happen
but i think by us at least preaching what is right what the bible says even though it's extreme
people hear that message and then they hear the gospel and they end up getting saved and so i
think there's a net positive from even preaching some of the extreme things because people hear
about us and of course we've gotten some attention you know you've helped us get some attention
for better or for worse and i've gotten push back on that and i'm sure a lot of people will
be mad at that but at the end of the day like i think it's just all things work together for good
to them that love god to them that are called according to his purpose so you're helping us
my gospel to many people that's the criticism i've gotten but my fear is the next time i talk to you
guys it'll be because someone in your congregation took the law into their own hands because they
know even if you condemn what they are doing or what they did you're still going to celebrate the
fact that it happened are you afraid of hell no i don't think about hell like i that's my fear
though do you understand that's my fear like that's my concern that someone's going to take
a message that you tell me right now you do not intend for that message to go through to them
that's because that's not the message right but that is what they are going to hear because they
do it all the time and they're going to do it and i want you guys to take that concern seriously
so let me flip that concern back to you yeah now you've put multiple things out there and
then some some things get traction that you put on there and then some things don't but of course
what i said what i don't know two november's ago about the colorado shooting when you posted that
that went mega viral and i'm not sure if it's the exact same time as you went on your excursion out
to the woods and you said oh you came back and you're like oh yeah i had such a great time out in
the mountains and i'm like well i pray that you get eaten by mountain lions and bears or something
like that and then your followers got a little upset about it but here's the thing let me just
put this i didn't even know that let me put this in a little comp do you remember that i vaguely
okay so let me put this in a little context for you so when that went viral all your people that
listened to that and all the millions of people that that viewed those things you know they're
they're not getting you you don't you only paint one picture that were these evil hate preachers
that are wishing that are that are wanting death to be uh taking out on people which you are by
the way no no no but you the way you frame it a lot of times is that we're um that we're advocating
murder on gays that's not what we say so hold on but hold on so you are just you are just let me
finish here okay so you come home from a great weekend you saw nature it was all great but you
know what was happening to me that weekend i was getting non-stop phone calls people harassing me
night and day i had to turn my phone off and i'm getting all these queer pictures from all these
queers that are that are saying how they're going to kill me and my family naming my children naming
my my in-laws and my and my daughter-in-laws and my son-in-laws and they're telling me all these
different ways how they're going to torture them and and kill them and and you know i'm watching
my back never going through something as bad as i've ever gone through with that weekend and then
i look on twitter and you're like oh great greatest weekend ever i'm like well i hope your
weekend goes really bad you know so that's what i went through and so think about the responsibility
that you have when you sit when you clip those things together the way you do what what if
you're responsible for one of us getting killed and our family members how are you going to feel
about that because in reality i don't think anything that we've ever said that these people
are getting protested the way we are we're not having people people with ar-15s are not showing
up at people's doorsteps or showing up at people's church buildings and surrounding them but what i'm
saying to you yeah but we don't have christians mobbing you at your residence do it has happened
not because of you guys right as a public figure what i'm making is that you've made our life more
dangerous than we've made to anybody by quoting you're saying that you're quoting us but that's
not always a direct quote you're saying you're saying hate preacher says all teachers should be
shot and then i show the clip but you don't ever you don't ever include our carefully edited it's
not edited it's the short it's not always exact quotes and sometimes you say all that gays should
be killed or murdered let's correct this if you said gays should not be executed and i clipped
out the word not that's selective editing when i say this is the thing you said which i've actually
copied and pasted things that you said and said this is the actual this is what i actually said
and it was i think there's a little bit of editorializing to some of your only to shorten
the clip if it's too long but you're sensationalizing it what you said you you never you never tell the
other side like you said he said do we ever preach anything that's good it's everything with you is
always ultra negative but we don't only preach negative sermons i preach a sermon there last
week this was 50 things that happen when you get saved it was a positive sermon it was i saw that
one yeah there was nothing negative about it i mean how's that negative it's not that's not
but like that never gets told it's just we're hate preachers and then you know my phone's getting
blown up my i'm playing security cameras around my house do you feel bad about that no if there's
a swimming pool and someone shits in a corner of the swimming pool and you here's me saying look
over here i think that's a valid thing to point out and you're trying to but do you see the
hypocrisy in what you're doing though no because what you're saying is look at the rest of the
pool and i'm saying i don't care about the rest of the pool that's fine if that's all you did we
would never have this discussion but look over here because this is a problem if i was taking
you out of context yeah but i've been preaching the bible for years and nobody's ever committed
a crime like you're saying might happen could happen i literally got arrested yeah but let's
say a guy eats indian food and he accidentally he has an accident okay and then the pool and then
there's another guy that's literally just taking feces and just dumping it in there
and you're just like this evil person is trying to ruin the pool well one context is a lot different
than the other and what he's trying to point out is that our context is never being added to some
of your statements to make them less traumatic so if it makes i think i think that you're personally
trying to make them as dramatic as possible for attention and followers not caring about the
consequence of what would happen to us particularly specifically i personally don't think you'd feel
bad if we got killed and i think that because to me i'm like you're trying to get me killed
that's kind of how i feel and so when you're when i'm lashing out at you that's why because i feel
like well if i'm getting all these death threats are you did you get death threats that weekend
because i sure as hell didn't i think so it pisses me off i think and fine but i think it's fair to
quote you directly and say this is what someone is preaching at a church this is what they said
based on this conversation that i haven't taken you out of context i haven't do you ever put the
caveat in there yes yes i do yes i do i've seen you do it a couple times i don't do it every time
the caveat being they believe the government should execute xyz people yeah that caveat is
in there well that's why i asked you if you know the difference between you know execute an execution
or capital punishment and murder because sometimes you'll say murder but we're not saying for people
to murder people so but that's how people are taking it i'm saying because if people are blowing
up my phone saying well you should be murdered i think you're not taking responsibility for the
people that are messaging me i think you're making a big distinction between the government
sanctioned murder that you you wish not murdered in place it's the same thing death penalty is
government sanctioned murder no versus people killing into their own lawful killing it's lawful
for capital crime call it whatever you want do you think people should be put to death for rape
rape no i want them locked away if they are guilty of it but what are they doing what letting them
out letting them out to do it again right after they do it if you want to have an argument about
like the justice system as it applies to those people we could have that conversation it's a
different conversation i think they should be killed and lawfully after they get found guilty
for it that's a different conversation different conversation but to your point i don't think i'm
taking you guys out of context i do include the caveats which i think you do a good job for the
most part i think you do a good job for the most part but there are times when you're
you're putting your own spin to it and i think you're responsible for how you spin it if you're so
bothered by your own words then i'm not bothered by my own words i'm bothered by how you spin it
and the context and what you're giving it you're saying the spin is me clipping your own videos
and sharing no i'm not ashamed of anything i preach right but unless i say something wrong
of course then i'd be ashamed of that and i'll want to take it back i mean does the news does
the news media ever take trump out of context like when he he brings up things like it's going to be
a blood bath but yeah doesn't doesn't context matter to that statement sure it does and when
he says that sort of thing over and over in repeated ways like what do you think he's doing
it but if he says he says hey if if we print more money our economy is going to be bad it's going
to be a blood bath that sounds different than if i say like hey we need to we need to take these
people out and kill them it's going to be a blood bath doesn't change things i get your point it's
a fair point with trump a lot of times it's you guys it's not one time out of context because
believe me if if the example you just gave of the economy inflation blood bath that's one thing if
that's all they did believe me plenty of people would be like stop making a big deal out of that
that's not the thing to focus on when he starts using certain language uh let's take out these
people that sort of language in different contexts over and over it's like this is part of a pattern
this is who he is i think that's fair to call out this is the same thing with the certain yeah but
aren't you addressing or believing that we don't have a pattern of suggesting murder say that
again do we have a pattern of suggesting murder you do it all the time or or are we suggesting
capital punishment though wouldn't you murder i mean we're going sanction we're using yeah but
isn't murder your same isn't murder the unlawful killing of someone that's premeditated i said
here's pastor thompson calling for government sanction i would just say executed yeah that's
all great penalty for capital crime we just want us to be quoted directly i know and i'm saying i
don't think that makes as big of a difference but if you say murder that changes the definition
that's what i'm saying i don't think i'll use execution if it makes you feel that would
actually these freaks that you think are such great people i mean i could show you thousands
of texts that i got saying and i've posted some of them on your twitter page unless you have me
blocked or something but i mean where i'm showing you know them saying i'm going to kill you or i'm
going to kill you and your wife or awful yeah but that's okay and that completely what if someone
actually does it because you know i've gone through it but what i'm trying to say is that
it's the same thing you're you're actually you're saying that you're afraid that one day maybe
possibly that this might happen which it never has yet right it never has but you actually have
people literally threatening us literally showing up at our churches with ar-15s screaming at our
children we should ban which is which is actually no no no we shouldn't but which is actually no
we should ban freaks from being able to intimidate people from walking into your church i agree you
know in the in the civil rights you know why they they they passed laws about that because they were
burning crosses in their in their church yards and bombing their churches oh guess what you know what
that's happened to us too not crosses but you know bombing our churches you have a right to meet you
have a right to all right so so we're talking in circles i want to kind of wrap up but here's the
thing i want to give our audience one opportunity if you want to put a question in here it's got to
be a fair question i'm not just going to ask anything that you put in there but if you want
to ask a question to any of the parties here we might address them so if you have a question
and we'll give them just a second here sure to put something in there but um i i do we have a
heart out in 10 minutes just no problem we need to wrap up anyways so if somebody has a quick
question and and you this is your opportunity to put it in the chat i'm going to look here for the
next few minutes but i do want to say thank you to at least having the conversation and it seems
like you are sincere as far as just uh your intentions i mean i i think that it's incredible
that you watch as many sermons as you do because i personally thought you had a team like i i'm
just saying like for sure i thought like people were sending you clips at least or or something
because that's just a lot like i feel like you literally watch everything you have so many why
do you do so many sermons you could do like one a week you'll be fine i mean you were you were
watching sermons that i'm thinking like i can't believe he watched that sermon all the way through
because i was even boring for the first half of it and i'm thinking like how did you do you watch
on fast speed i've watched everything on fast speed not not sermons i watch movies on fast speed
all right someone someone has this question do you have a recommended list of books or a recommended
book i assume that means for atheism or something this is just general if it's about religion i
would say uh breaking the spell by daniel vennett is a good primer for like how to think about
things that's a good one um if you're curious about evolution i don't love dockins but the
ancestor's tale was a good non-atheism related but it's about evolution i like that one um
any books outside of religious yeah uh i don't know i'm reading the robert carroll linden johnson
books they're really good have you ever read the bridge at andau i think you would like it you
should that's a recommendation i always give to people that's what's it called the bridge at andau
okay it's like a andau it's it's about the hungarian revolution in the 50s in regards
to communism so interesting i think it's a great read um someone also wants to ask why you got
married i don't know if that's like a trick question it's not a trick question why did you
get married and have kids because i love my wife hey that's a good answer um do you believe in
object reality objective i don't know what that means i don't do philosophy not my thing i don't
have a good answer for whoever asked that question yeah i don't uh it's pretty it would be a big i'm
not even knocking the question it's there's people if i go on like an atheist show where they ask
those types of questions like i'm not the guy to answer them because it's not something i spend
time thinking about you know this i spend time on politics and what people do with their beliefs and
not so much the philosophy theology behind all that someone wants to know if you listen to the
hymns too and the announcements no no you just skip straight to the sermon okay do you sing
any of the hymns no do you like any of the hymns no okay all right i was just curious um a lot of
a lot of questions i'm not going to ask but uh i can imagine um now we've had over 300 people in
the chats uh so watching just on rumble alone so i'm sure this is going to be a pretty uh
highly anticipated show a lot of people were um really shocked that we were going to have this
conversation myself included but uh i think it's gone well honestly so i appreciate the conversation
this person says if you're an atheist do you uh why do you not devote your life to pleasure
what do you here's a general question i'm not knocking the question what do you think i would
do what do i what does that person think atheists do when they don't believe in god because i've
heard a lot of christian apologists say something like you just want to sin you just i don't i don't
know that i would do it necessarily anything different from a pleasure perspective yeah i
think if i was an atheist though i wouldn't waste my time listening to my sermons hey you're not
the only one so i'm just so like that to me so yeah like why i feel like i can provide something
useful when i'm saying this is what some people are doing with their beliefs i do it with politics
too at the state level sometimes it's here's a person you've never heard of it's a state
representative in a state you probably don't pay attention to this is a bill they sponsored
because of their religion and i find it really harmful i find that useful in the same way it's
i don't think a lot of people are necessarily who are outside your circles are watching those
sermons but if that's a service i can provide to people that this is being said in the name of god
and it's harmful and i can show that to people then maybe i can offer them something they can't
find anywhere else and by the way they can always go see it for themselves i mean why and when did
you become an atheist high school is when i started doubting my faith and it kind of just solidified
slowly after that is your are your parents still practices of jane religious or jane how do you
say it jane jane they're still religious yeah do you have siblings i do how many i have one sister
okay um do you believe life has intrinsic value depends on what intrinsic value means like no
it's life i mean glad i'm here someone wants to ask about zionism but i think it'd be a better
question to just say do you think that there's a problem with how much apac or potentially like
israeli dual citizens have control in our government do you think that's a problem at all
i don't like the lobby that is the apac is problematic i mean if you're a progressive
democrat then apac has not been on your side on a lot of things so like i have a lot of
problem with the israeli government what about the adl they've been horrible okay what about
this someone asked someone asked what do you think about the flat earth but i would want to
change that a little bit what about people who believe in flat earth like why how would you
explain someone having that be from your perspective how would i explain that they
shouldn't be flat earthers no like why do they even exist like how does someone come to that
conclusion it's the same reason people fall for different conspiracy theories i think when you
can latch on to something that is that everyone else knows is wrong but in your subculture in
in the circles you can run in because flat earth being one of them there are some people who buy
into that and they all know each other because they all follow each other it's like a cool
rebellion club or something and they feel really smart because in that circle of people they know
stuff and they're confident and like people want a sense of belonging i would argue that's why a
lot of people join churches too like it's you feel like you're part of something that matters
to a lot of people and if maybe if it's not church but they're part of some flat earth group of
people in some forum somewhere or a subreddit somewhere they feel like they are part of
something where we all agree on this and it's really hard to find that sort of community so
pick your conspiracy theory you'll find people for that reason.
Well I'm gonna end on this last question and I think it's pretty interesting question. It said
what would you do if your kids got saved and I would kind of reword this. What if your kids
listened to our sermons and actually liked them and agreed with them?
I would be disturbed. Talking out of it is the wrong thing but it's like assuming they're
old enough to make their own decision. Like I don't have control over that. I hope they're
doing good things with their lives, whatever it is they're doing. At that point, I don't own them.
It's their life. Be good. I hope whatever values I taught you, you are still carrying forth.
It's entirely possible. My kids are young. They are soon going to be at the point where
I'm wrong about everything so I know it's going to happen. And if they believe I'm wrong about
the atheism thing, that's not surprising either. It happens a lot. What do you hope? You hope you
taught them the right values and they're using those. It's not something I would spend much time
thinking about. Do they watch the sermons with you? They do not. Okay. Well, so... I just let them.
Yeah, I think so too. Not on my worst enemies. Just at least let them watch the salvation. No.
Okay. Just the gospel message, if anything. Would you be afraid that they would believe it?
No, I try not to have them watch any of it. Okay. They don't know what I do. Or watch the
preserved Bible. All right. Well, is there anything you want to plug before we end? Hey,
friendlyatheist.com is my site if you want to read what I write. That's it. What about the only sky
thing or something? That was the site I used to write for. It's no longer in business. I just do
my own thing now. So friendlyatheist.com is me if you're interested. All right. Pastor Thompson,
thanks for joining us for the conversation. I appreciate you being here. Can I plug something?
Plug your church. Plug whatever. Well, we're having some preaching tonight at six o'clock,
and I'll be preaching at the place. Are you going to be listening? No. I'm taking a break for days.
I'm not saying it publicly, but yeah, we're going to be streaming. Hopefully,
you'll be streaming on the Steadfast channel. Yeah, Rumble Steadfast channel. And we're going
to try to stream also on YouTube. I'm not sure what channel. Probably Sure Foundation Seattle
or something. But anyway, also there's so many tomorrow in Cicero, and we have all the location
times and all that. If you need to know where it's at, just email the church Sure Foundation,
sfbcindy@gmail.com. But tonight, me and Pastor Shelley will be preaching six o'clock. So tune
in if you can. And thanks for having me on the show. Appreciate it. Yeah, thanks so much. And
you find your Sure Foundation Baptist.com. Oh, sure. Oh, yeah. Sure Foundation Baptist Church.com.
Yeah. Thanks for watching us on the Baptist bias. Make sure to share it. You can follow me on
Twitter @BandPastor. I'm ghost banded, so you have to go directly to it. You got to check it out
because I put some good info, although I don't have many followers. It's hard to get a lot of
followers on there. But thanks so much for joining us. Look, everyone's got a perspective out there,
but you need to get the Baptist bias.