According to modern progressive Christianity the Bible would never call
on us to fight. Never mind that it literally says fight the good fight of
faith in 1st Timothy 6 or that we ought to contend for the faith in Jude verse
3, but regardless we're all supposed to resemble rainbows and unicorns and
exhibit a sweet spirit. That's Bible somewhere, right? We wouldn't want to hurt
anyone's feelings after all. We wouldn't want to be plastered with left-wing
buzzwords and smeared and besmirched for the cause of Christ, and we for sure
would never want to be accused of being a fundamentalist, now would we? Now one
would think that as this world descends further into degeneracy, Christians would
understand the need to contend, the need to fight for good doctrine, the Trinity,
salvation by faith, the King James Bible, but of course doing so has its
consequences. You'll be labeled radical or extreme, and your old friends will
start to wonder, "But take heed to this warning. If you choose to go out
soul-winning, combat the false prophets of our day, and take the things of God
seriously, it'll be made obvious that you're a fighter. It'll be made obvious
that you have the most dangerous predisposition known to mankind, one that
is incompatible with the New World Order, an incitement to violence, a call
to arms, a domestic terrorist threat the likes of which America has never seen. So
sit back, play your video games, sip your tea, eat your chips off your chest and go
back to being an apathetic sleepy soy boy without a care in the world.
Otherwise you'll be accused of hate speech. You might actually get persecuted
and it'll be made obvious that you've got the Baptist bias. Thanks everybody for
joining us for the Baptist bias. Boyd has been have a sweet spirit. I really
enjoyed that. Well thank you. You're the first person to
ever give me that compliment but I'm working on it and hopefully by the end
of tonight's broadcast my spirit will be even
sweeter. Well we've got a great show for you this evening and we've got a guest
in studio. We have Jornel Lugo. How's it going?
What's going on guys? Thanks for having me. Yeah we're glad that you're here.
Pound for pound. Yeah of course. I wanted to make sure
that before y'all fight Ben and
Jornel that we get a few last words from you Ben.
So what are you thinking about saying? Well I've made it 30 years
on this earth and have been able to father two children and have lived I
think a pretty good life and so if this is it I'm ready to go.
Do you think you'll last 10 seconds? 20? Like what is the?
I mean 10 would be generous. I'd probably give myself about three or four seconds.
Are you gonna yell aluakbar right before it's over or what?
Probably just as like a self-preservation mechanism. That's what I
do being from the middle east. That's what we do.
Is this kind of instinctual? It's instinctual. If you fear
like you're about to die. Well you have to understand where I come from whenever
you need to shout for help. Whenever you're in
a situation where you need help that's what you do. I mean how do you
how do you overcome that with such a sweet spirit though? I mean I guess that
you know. That might be my demise. Spirit's too sweet to fight. See with
with Jornel how do you you know combat that sweet spirit when
you have to go in the ring and you have to throw down?
Talking to me? Yeah. Wait what do you mean? You say what?
I'm just messing with you. Well hey I have a desire to depart and to be with
Christ which is far better and so I'll see y'all on the other
side. Yeah obviously it's kind of silly to
think that we're never supposed to fight in any context in any situation
um of course you know it's funny to me that Jornel is a fighter
because I feel like every time I hang out with him he's like one of the
nicest guys and he's just like kind of fun energetic.
How do you get into like fight mode when you have to go under the ring?
Yeah that's a tough thing for me a lot of time. I have a lot of people tell me
the same thing. They feel like they would never have
known that I'm a fighter and when it comes to fighting for me I
just get myself more in a mode of like execution
thinking about what it is that I want to do but as far as having like
uh like animosity or like built up I know we talked about this before you
said you kind of want to build up like some anger
I'm just not an angry person in general so like that that's not my motivation
when I fight and never has been and some people struggle with that but
anger is not something I struggle from I'm like I have the opposite problem I'm
like almost never angry what about when
someone socks you right in the face while you're fighting them does that
does that ever arouse some kind of primal anger or some kind of like
irritation I mean like what's going on through your mind well you you can't
you can't let that get to you just because in a fight if somebody can
control your actions by hitting you hard now they're the ones in control of the
fight okay so in fighting I have this like little saying I said you have to
have forgiveness just let it go just because he hit you hard
keep doing what you were supposed to do you don't want to let somebody knock you
off your game plan if you had a game plan
you want to stick to that you don't want to like oh he hit me hard
throw throw everything out the window I've been training for I gotta get him
back now because then he's kind of controlling the fight so
and if I you gotta you gotta kind of almost just ignore things like put your
windshield wipers on and everything that happens just keep
going don't don't worry about the fact that he just hit you hard just
you're gonna get him back but stick to your game plan so you can win did you
get in any fights growing up or how how does this how does this work
well surprisingly no I never really got into any like I got into street fights
that were always organized so my brother Marcel he would get into
like actual street fights where like he'd get angry they'd fight but me I was
always in organized street fights so basically like there would be older kids
about my brother's age and they would come get me when it for whatever reason
I don't know why why me I have no idea but they would come and get me if there
was a problem they're like oh we got this kid who wants to go fight him and
I'm just like sure I'll go fight him and we'd go be a bunch of like older kids around us and I
would just this happened multiple times I remember I remember walking like 30
minute walk this happened at least I could think of three times I can think
of oh man where they gathered they brought me for I was minding my business
took me a whole bunch of people watching and I just started fighting another kid
so how do you go from street fights to you know actually thinking like I want
to do this professionally like how does that even how does that even work well
you know when I was a 14 my mom had a boyfriend at the time and he was a he
was a fan of us of the UFC and at this point I never heard of the UFC my life
and he would always talk about it and I wouldn't know what he was talking about
but then I seen this movie called Never Back Down and when I watched that movie
that movie like kind of like opened my eyes to the sport and I just thought it
was so cool and at that point I started wrestling my friends in a neighborhood
and getting the better of all my friends and one day I seen a commercial in my in
my city for MMA MMA gym and my mom and her boyfriend at the time they brought me
over there and I started training when I was 14 and my first fight my first
grappling tournament like three months later when I was 15 my first competition
I was like this is what I want to do I want to compete I just thought it was I
could do this I just thought it was easy you know and I guess I just had a
natural I'll kind of get it a little bit there too how does how does this work in
the Islamic world Ben I mean you know I would think like after you blow yourself
up there's not a lot fight left in you how do they even practice over there they
they are very primitive okay in my region of the world that's all I could
tell you very primitive it involves ak-47s bombs and then you're pretty much
done okay well I mean did you get any fights when you were a kid Ben no not
really I mean maybe when I was a the closest that I ever got is I like
threw a chair at somebody who was bullying me or something like that but
I've never got into like an actual fight no ever you've never fought no never
my one time there was like a like a fight club at my high school and it was
this thing where guys would go around and like challenge you would like
challenge somebody or something you had to go so one time someone challenged me
so I went out there but and you was it was kind of lame I I mean it wasn't it's
kind of unfair to say that I won just because it didn't seem like they really
even declared winners too much but yeah I was like I think it was just two
rounds of 30 seconds we had gloves it was just a boxing match basically and I
didn't even I've never boxed like in that kind of a setting or anything like
that or fought so basically we just kind of sparred for a few minutes I think he
hit me once and then basically I just hit him really hard in the nose he just
started bleeding and it was over so it was just like is that winning I don't
know but like it wasn't you know then somebody else was like now I want to
fight you and I was just like no I'm just gonna retire want to know on
blemish record yeah there you go so is that does that make me a striker now
Ben or how does that work exactly yeah okay I have to be like you just zero
five zero for zero only throwing chairs yes is that like a WWE thing yes I feel
like that's you know and it was in like fourth grade or something like I live
great I literally have not gotten into any physical altercations as an adult
with anyone it's just not something in my family it's never happened we've
always just kind of been white-collar we we were not athletic I'm not an
athletic person by any stretch of the imagination so you know I'm just
thankful that guns were invented because that would be my go-to method of
self-defense if necessary I mean it seems like when your family gets in a
fight people just kind of blow up at each other right now and so it's just so
there's never been a need to learn hand-to-hand combat because we have our
own ways of taking care of business we have our own contacts and people we
lean on yeah for things good thing 9/11 doesn't happen every day you'd lose a
lot of family members that's exactly yeah so like I said we have contacts and I'm
sure the CIA will be at my doorstep tomorrow but well now brother journey
you've been like doing some training too right how's that going training clients
yeah I've been I started training clients full-time when I got here and
full-time as in like 15 hours a week okay it's good you know I get to do what
I've been doing since I was 14 just I'm just having other people with that I
kind of feel like you remember like when you were a kid well I don't know if you
guys live this way but where I'm from up north in Connecticut we just play
outside all day and then you come home after being with your friends all day I
kind of feel like that I don't really feel like I'm going to work I just feel
like I'm just like yeah you know I feel like I'm hanging out with people that I
like so it doesn't even feel like work for me because this is what I would be
doing anyway but a lot of my clients I work out with them and I train with them
and I box with them so I'm kind of just getting paid to do what I've already
been doing do you are you like training yourself while you're doing this or do
you just train separately or how does that work so I do train with them but I
also train of my own too I have a boxing gym that's like right across the street
from where I live and I go to the boxing gym and I do my boxing there and then I
also go to a gym for MMA gym for jiu-jitsu and so I got a couple of gyms
that I go to that I do I do like my specific training but I do jump in the
training with my clients as well and train with them as well when it comes to
like MMA I think you know not everybody knows everything about it but do you
have experience in like Brazilian jiu-jitsu and Muay Thai and boxing like
what obviously makes martial arts how do you blend all of that like how do you
decide what's important or how do you work on that well you know when you when
I started I started with Muay Thai and jiu-jitsu so jiu-jitsu and Muay Thai were
like my basis starting no knees elbows kicks punches grappling jiu-jitsu but in
MMA the dominant bases are boxing and wrestling so you really as long if you
just watch MMA now you'll kind of see what dominates on the feats boxing and
then wrestling for the ground like wrestlers pretty much dominate because
jiu-jitsu the thing about jiu-jitsu in Muay Thai is jiu-jitsu is a very it's a
more laid-back kind of style it's a more defensive it's a defensive martial
arts what it is it's supposed to teach small people how to beat bigger people
and same thing with Muay Thai, Muay Thai is kind of like a slow paced style but
MMA is really close to a street fight really close to a street fight so boxing
is more especially amateur boxing very fast pace wrestling is gritty you know
gung-ho you know balls to the wall the whole time so boxing and wrestling mesh
more with MMA because it's closer to street fighting so I had to learn those
you know later I got more into boxing as I got older and wrestling as a more
recent a lot more wrestling those are really dominant arts so let's say
someone picks a fight with you out in the middle of nowhere and you kind of
have feel you feel forced to fight like what are the likelihood of a of a just
random Joe going against you know a professional fighter like what's gonna
happen well like if it actually what like if I actually got into an
altercation yeah and I'm not saying you would do that but I'm just saying like
basically someone's picking a fight with you or you feel like compelled that you
have to defend yourself or something like how likely is just your average Joe
gonna be able to compete against someone that's professionally trained well well
he's a thing a lot of people know some stuff now you don't know who knows what
yeah who know who can wrestle who can box who could do you know jujitsu a lot
of people know a lot of things but if it's just like a random guy who knows
nothing it's taking candy from my baby I mean so I mean I feel like Ben could
you know fair a pretty good fight here even though he doesn't know much
adrenaline adrenaline can kick in tendencies right you know I think about
like a if you think about like um if you've never have you ever played
basketball are you good at basketball I'm I'm average have you ever played
basketball man yes I'm one of the top players in the country here's a better
example you say you play golf sure I never played golf in my life right how
do I fear against you I go yeah but I don't think that that's a really good
comparison because if someone's never really played golf like there's a zero
percent chance whereas I feel like in any fight there's probably least a one
percent chance just because you get lucky I think if we played mini golf it
would be competitive between us well obviously if we play a completely
different game then sure you know similarities mini golf isn't golf though
that's so that doesn't even count you have to have good putting skills I think
there's a zero percent chance you could beat me in mini golf but it is a
different sport okay I might have to take you up on that sometime no you're
right about that though like as far as like I guess golf if you knew nothing
you probably in a fight if somebody just swings for the fences they could get you
but in general say if I had like a month of training in golf yes right then at
that point it's still zero percent but I mean what about like size differences
I'm just kind of curious like if someone is a lot bigger does that give them a
pretty big advantage even if they're not very trained yep yeah I mean it also
still depends do they know anything or do they completely know nothing if he's
just really big and really strong but he knows absolutely nothing obviously he's
still gonna do better than someone who never trained in their life but if he
has even 10% of the skill that I have or just he's gonna do pretty damn well
yeah strength comes in strength is important are you familiar because you
brought up a size difference and by the way for those of you who are just
tuning in we've got MMA fighter Jornel Lugo in studio with us he's fought with
Bellator the number two promotion in the world you brought up size difference
pastor Shelley have you ever seen the freak show fight over in Japan pride you
know what pride you've heard of pride obviously so they put on this freak show
fight with this guy who was like morbidly obese like this giant must have
been like 400 pounds or something and then just a regular probably middleweight
or something like that and the smaller guy had the advantage the entire time
because the giant was like really slow and things like that so I think there's
there are some instances where you know actually being smaller gives you an
advantage sounds like Street Fighter the Giants didn't know how to fight if the
Giants do not fight at all man yeah strength is a big deal somebody grabs a
hold of you and they know anything yeah well it's just if they can basically lay
down and use their strength but think about think about a woman if a woman you
know it was well trained and there was a guy who like trained for like a week or
two but he was big and strong right unless she was you know unless she has a
lot of jiu-jitsu training or something probably she wouldn't depend on small
it but it depends how big she is yeah she's really small I mean you're not
strong enough to arm bar him your whole body couldn't arm bar his arm she
doesn't have enough weight behind her one thing I want to bring up since
we're talking about this is just as a casual MMA fan I much prefer fighters
who are willing to stay on their feet a little bit at least and not spend the
entire fight on the ground lay and pray right and it's like I get it that's
what's gonna get you a judge's decision but the most entertaining fights for me
are the ones where the guys are willing to stay on their feet and are willing to
you know strike rather than just lay and pray on their opponent the entire time
which I think is kind of a common strategy is that is that basically like
something you've had to deal with a lot in your career brother Jornel guys that
just sort of want to lay on you and win by judges decision yes I got my first
loss yeah that's I agree I think that's how you got your first loss as well I
think that guy that guy was just laying there and waiting for the judges to give
them a victory a wrestler is really hard to do if they're a really good wrestler
even doing this is like three years old there's in camp three years old
wrestling wrestling and and they go in there and they're just bloodthirsty
relentless score takedowns relentless they want to score takedowns and lay on
you and they don't care if they put on a show or not but it's still our job to be
you know well-trained and good enough to get out of that situation that's that's
what I get paid for I'm supposed to be able to stop that so there's still my
fault for not being able to get out of it I want to read just something from
the chat here this person bearded baptist 1611 says I haven't watched UFC in a
long time I think the last fight I watched was Anderson Silva versus Chris
Weidman or the last one I remember and then this one here
why moose says UFC is fake fags with pink hair slapping each other in
scripted fights for organized crime so this guy thinks that organized crime
this guy thinks makes marginal arts fights or something is a work I would
completely disagree with that has anybody ever told you all right
Jornel you're gonna have to do the job for this fight you're gonna have to lose
this one here I think that there's definitely been a history of at least
boxing matches and probably even UFC where it's rumored that a particular
fighter may have been paid to throw a fight here and there I'm kind of curious
do you think that there's any faking going on in the UFC? I don't think the
UFC man I just I can't see it that I don't think Dana would you know be
behind anything like that Dana is the president of the UFC, I don't think he would be behind anything
now could have happened some could somebody have been paid to like take a
dive yeah I mean sure but it had to been very like really personal like it had
nothing to do with the organization itself well what about okay there was a
pretty famous fight recently it was like Floyd Mayweather I think against Jake
Paul or Logan Paul brothers you know a lot of people speculated that was fake
what is what is your opinion on that fight I think how well I guess they they
suggest that Floyd just kind of took it easy just kind of let him last for a lot
longer than he should have or something and they have some shots I think of the
fight where it looks like maybe they were saying that he looked like he may
have knocked him out or was like close to and then they just kind of he kind of
like went easy on him but I don't know I'm just kind of curious it could be
possible but number one that's an exhibition it's not a real fight in the
first place yeah and also that guy has like 70 pounds on Floyd oh so like he
doesn't have to really hold back he's so big like it makes a big difference we
have that big of a neck like it we can't even generate we could not you
could knock somebody out bigger but my hardest punch is somebody that size is
not gonna hurt him as much as somebody his own size right so I don't think he
would even have to hold back and plus boys before they retired for years so I
feel like he's not as good as what he once was anyway yeah that was I think
from what I could see it just like Floyd imagine fighting someone with a foot
longer reached in you yeah that's rough to think that you're gonna be so good
that you can just maneuver around that big guy and you could just knock him out
any second the guy trains too what about I think isn't there supposed to be
another fight like this it's a Mike Tyson said a Jake Paul here Paul do you
think that that's in real do you think that they're gonna really like go hard
at it it's happening that when I that one I don't know if it's gonna be an
exit but I don't understand that my cousin almost six years old 60 yeah you
can't be taking I saw so well I saw some like you know clips of him training he
looked he looked fierce still I don't know how many hits he can take
necessarily but I'm sure he can still throw a punch yeah but for how long 45
seconds a minute - it's a freak show fight well what would like your ideal
fight if you have to pick between one or two options one option is essentially
that it's gonna be in just an epic TKO in the first like 15 seconds or like
something that goes all the rounds and and one guy just kind of ekes it out
like what would you rather see if you paid you're gonna watch a show like you
want to see all the rounds and see them duke it out for a long time or do you
would you just want to see like a 15-second I want to see all the rounds
yeah I want to be I want to get my money's worth third round knockout
because I've seen some of these shows it's like these highly anticipated
fights and everybody's excited they paid all their money and they they go to the
bar and they're all ready to watch it and it's like over in 20 seconds
to be back in the day I will I don't know would you remember that no I've
never really watched that much of fighting so I just remember a handful of
like UFC fights where there's all this this like amped up you know energy and
excitement it's been promoted and then just over and over and Mike Tyson's time
my mom told me that Mike Tyson used to fight everyone used to go at all the
parties and the bars he said it'd be before he even got there was over oh man
so like that was a common thing that's why he was so popular I don't I don't
think that MMA is staged but I do think that what about WWE well that there's a
conspiracy that WWE is fake that's a crazy conspiracy it's obviously not true
but anyway when it comes to the mixed martial arts it's not that they're
scripting these fights or anything but I do think what does happen is that
fights are booked sometimes not necessarily based only on skill level
but rather on what's gonna draw money and I think this Mike Tyson Jake Paul is
a freak show example of that where you have an influencer fighting a retired
super famous boxer simply because it'll draw money and the UFC I think does that
where they look at a pay-per-view they realize we got to sell this thing we
need some buys who can we book on the card to be on there and so that's why it
actually and join oh this leads into a question for you from the outside
looking in I'm over a casual fan but having Mike skills seems to actually be
a very important asset in this business can you talk a little about that side of
the fight game and being able to you know so to steal to steal a term from
pro wrestling you have to be able to cut a promo right I mean talk about the
importance of charisma in mixed martial arts at the end of the day it's a it's
an entertainment business it's an entertainment so we'll bring what brings
in money storylines people good talk characters those people love so like it
even if you have like two of the best fighters if they're completely dry and
boring personality wise it's not gonna sell we have a guy named Colby
Covington enough you ever heard of him in the UFC he was doing really good he
was undefeated and he was gonna get cut you know I was gonna cut him because he
was he was a he was a wrestler yeah he was a wrestler he was just wrestling
people the fights weren't exciting and he had no personality so he went and he
like switched his whole personality and came up with this you know pro Trump
gimmick he went to Brazil and in Brazil he's like Brazil's a dump you guys suck
and he's like talking all this junk he got so that one right there made him
famous oh man they were throwing cans at him they were gonna kill this guy but
that he cut that promo he went he got famous after that and he and the UFC
kept him he's gonna get cut that fight right even though he won so you got to
develop a character you got to be able to draw money to like been the baddest
like that's my character yeah exactly well I want to play a clip and I think
not only is it the character but even some of the fights I think we have a
clip that we want to show and this one got a little bit of traction I saw
someone say online that there's a secret that Jornel can eat for free or
discount at any Atlanta restaurant he wants but let's play this clip real
quick and let's get some let's see what happened the commentary here it starts
off with the submission
this is a submission to Keith Lee
he is out at that moment
and even if that bell sounded a ringside position is not going to let Keith Lee go on because he went
unconscious
this is Bellator here
Moro Moro on the phone
he's attacking the net but there's no way
his legs in place but would get this to work
right now turning that position is
good for him will the clock
run out talk us through that
what was that bell right
it looked like the bell was rung before the ref
came in is that another ref the round was
over oh the round was over what was that
bell yeah that was
bing bing bing that was the round over
so does that mean you still did you win
the fight at that moment yeah I won I thought
the fight was going to keep going but he fell asleep
for a moment yeah and because he fell asleep
for a moment they had to stop the fight
was that a submission basically
yeah yeah yeah okay he went unconscious
if he would have just stood awake
the fight would have kept going boy like
almost saved by the bell but not
but he went to sleep he didn't tap
I don't think he had because he kind of
it looked like he kind of like threw like he tried
to kind of throw one last punch but like
he almost like couldn't even throw it it just kind of
like he just went to sleep yeah he kind of went
limp and then when I let go he kind of like
woke back up and then he just ran off
so it's a big deal
that you fought in Bellator
he's a humble guy he's not going to make
it is a big deal that is
the number two promotion in North
America what was it like to be
a part of that promotion? It was a dream come true man
something I wanted I wanted
to fight up there I was calling
for that and I wanted to be in there
as an amateur because I had a friend
who fought there and I went and I seen him
fight and I thought it was a good
promotion I was like this is a good
place and I know you can make good money there
so I wanted to be in that promotion as an amateur
and then when I went pro
lowered open the doors and I was able to
get in there so I was definitely I was happy I was excited
to be there and you know things like that
I'm still going for this for even to this day
you know like I was able to go to and fight in
an organization that I wanted to fight for
so many people are never able to
get to the highest level
in anything that they do so to be able
to get to that level and
do that I've watched when I started training I've seen
people train forever and never pretty much
did anything and so
the fact that I was able to do that I was
I was definitely grateful for that man. Did they
call you? Is that how it worked? No we bothered
them. Okay. Yeah we bothered
them a lot. My management
just kept asking and asking and asking and asking
and eventually they gave me a fight against
another guy who was undefeated like me
I was a 4-0 he was 4-0 at the time
and then they put us against each other whoever one would get
a spot? Yeah exactly.
How many people do they decide to be in like
a promotion like how does that even work?
Do they have an unlimited number of spots?
Or do they have a specific number they want to keep?
Well the UFC has like over 500 people on their roster
so they have a whole bunch of people
they have a show every single weekend
so they have to pretty much have enough
fighters to put on events
every single weekend, every single weekend
whereas Bellator is a lot smaller promotion
and Bellator just got sold actually to PFL
so they're no longer their own thing
it's called Bellator fighter
series or something like that
and they're owned by PFL now
so PFL is actually, they own both
professional fighting league
professional fighting league and Bellator
they own both and they run them both
how do you, can you make the transition
from a promotion like
you're in Bellator but
can you get snagged by UFC
or do you have to kind of stay within that promotion for a while
or how does that work? If you're in contract
you can't go to the UFC
or vice versa, you would have to get out
and then you could go to the UFC, you have to be out of contract
so I was on contract and I'm not on contract anymore
and now I could
once I fight a couple more times
I can go to the UFC or go somewhere else
basically like a free agent
yeah exactly
how do you get a fight set up?
so right now I could go through my management
I don't have any management, I'm not signed to any management
but I do have people that I talk to
and they could get me a fight
or I could just reach out to people on my own
so right now that's what I'm kind of doing
I just moved to Texas
so I can kind of focus on just
making sure my finances are in order
because I didn't have any money coming in
so I had to make sure everything was situated
before I could be fully focused on fighting again
so I'm just now like
I'm able to be focused on training and stuff like that
while at the same time focus on training other people
and helping my brother and his business and things like that
so now I'm going to get that ball rolling again
It seems like you need your brother's friends
to start organizing some fights for you
You know what I mean?
They're like, "Hey, we want this guy to come fight"
I was trying to get Ben
I'm trying to get you scheduled for a fight
with Ben here, but he just...
He doesn't need to be fighting tomato cans
This guy's a professional
I'm just trying to help build his confidence
I'm cherry picking
He's got the look, he's got the charisma
the speaking ability as well
I feel like the potential is there
for Jornel
I'm excited to see what
next fights may come along
When it comes to the fight that we kind of looked at
in that clip, you know it seems like
you didn't have a lot of time there
since the round was about over
Do you kind of have a sense of like
when a round is about to be over and maybe like
try to make like a final move at the end
or were you just, you're just in the moment
and you're just kind of just living in the moment
or how does that work? Well the bell goes tick tick tick
so you know you have 10 seconds left
but that, in that particular clip right there
I didn't, I didn't know, like I wasn't paying attention
to how long the round was
but before I went into the match I was thinking
if this guy tries to wrestle me I'm gonna choke him
that was my mindset, like that's what I thought to myself
before I fought and that's what he did. Well you did it
and I did exactly what I was thinking to do
and it worked out that way. Cast a vision and you just
I mean the guy looked tore up too, I'm just gonna be honest
like his face looked a little bit messed up
but it looked like he had already put a little bit of bounding in there
Yeah I was jabbing him, the thing is what happened was
I jabbed him and he fell to the ground
and he was angry because of that
so when we talked about hitting somebody hard
he lost his cool, he came back, he was swinging
and he went to take me down, he was just kind of being reckless
Losing technique
and then he got caught because of that
so you gotta keep your mind sharp
Which fight was that?
In the sequence of fights you've had, do you remember?
Yeah that was my 7th pro fight
7th pro fight?
No, yeah I think so
Yeah it was my 7th pro fight
Have you fought just in the United States?
Have you had to fight out of the country?
I fought in Ireland
and I fought in Hawaii
That's in the country still
It's definitely not continental
What is it like traveling to
one of these places and
going to the arena? Is it intimidating
a little bit or is it fun?
What are your emotions on these days?
It's cool, you gotta remember these are some of the things
that you prayed for at one time
and you get to live those things
You wanted to do that at one point so for me it was definitely a dream come true
to be able to travel and fight
and go see different places in the world is fun
and you get to see different cultures
I think it was fun
I don't particularly get nervous
like I said I've been doing this since I was a kid
I just think to myself
I was like five years old
looking around a bunch of people watching me fight
so to me I've been doing this my whole life
so I don't really get nervous
and I also feel like the environment that I'm in
my opponent is also in the same environment
whether they're booing or cheering him or me
it doesn't really matter because you think about it
he still hears the boos like I hear him
he still hears the cheers like I hear him
there's no difference between the environment for me and him
it's the same exact environment so I don't get nervous
or scared or anything just because
we're in the same environment it's fair basically
and the crowd can't come in and fight
for my opponent they can't come in and fight for me
so it doesn't make a difference
so for me I just have a good time going over there
the only thing that I don't like though
is the time change because
you have to cut weight as a fighter
you gotta cut the water off
you have to rehydrate all these things
and then on top of that now because you went
the time difference you can't sleep
can't sleep and you don't adjust
because if you get done on Monday and your fight is on Saturday
you're not going to adjust in 4 days
well I'm not at least especially when you're starving
it's funny in one of your press conferences
you brought donuts to the media
and then
they asked you if you were going to indulge in some
and you said if I have even one
I won't make weight so I'm going to go ahead
and avoid that
I would imagine that there's a struggle there
and a big time struggle when it comes to
trying to stay in shape and is it true?
I mean even just one donut or are you just kidding?
Well it's not about staying in shape
you have to make weight, like it's water weight
you can't add any
weight, like literal weight, not like
gain fat, we're talking about actual pounds
or like you know
if you add any water you're going to gain weight
and that's why you have guys that are
trying to cram for fights and
they'll literally be on a
the bicycle machine for hours
on end to get rid of some of that water weight, correct?
That's exactly what it is.
On Monday I'm 155,
on Friday I'm 135.
So you got to get that 20.
That's just me though.
People do a lot more.
I'm just curious how that even works.
How do you just know
you're going to meet weight?
How does that even work?
What time is weigh in
from when you actually fight?
You get 36 hours.
Let's say someone meets weight
for 36 hours.
Can they binge eat?
Do they have to meet weight again before they fight?
How does that work?
Once you make weight, you're good to go.
Here's the thing though.
Rehydrating,
you have to be as disciplined as you were to cut the weight.
You have to be on point
cutting the weight and being very disciplined in the way you cut it.
When you rehydrate, you have to do the same thing.
When I first started cutting weight,
I would go straight to Chipotle
and just down a bowl of Chipotle.
You can't do that.
You can't introduce all kinds of food into your body
when you're in a really dehydrated,
starving state like that.
You have to sip fluids slowly
for three or four hours.
Just introduce water.
Wean yourself back to food or something like that.
Once you get hydrated,
get some fluids in your system,
then your body is ready to accept food.
Then the party starts.
That's crazy.
I always wondered about that,
how the weight thing works.
The discipline that's necessary,
I'm sure is immense.
What about the wear and tear on the body?
Someone asked that in the question.
They said,
"What about the lifestyle recovery from injuries?"
Talk a little about that
in terms of the wear and tear
that this career can
have on your body
and the toll that it takes on you.
It's just like anything else.
Anything else that you do athletically.
If you're using your body, it doesn't matter what you're doing.
Things are going to go wrong. You're going to pull things.
You're going to get little injuries.
I've torn my PCL.
I have a completely torn PCL.
Not partially, but completely torn.
That just comes with it.
That's just part of the sport.
I still deal with it to this day.
Some people have worse injuries.
Some people are dealing with all kinds of problems.
They go in the ring and they still fight at the highest level.
Usually, most people who are going to get into a fight,
no one's ever really 100% healthy.
Everyone's banged up.
Everyone has little injuries.
For the most part that I'm good. I feel great for the most part.
But when you're training hard, that's one of the biggest,
the toughest balances.
Because you've got to think about it. You want to train really hard.
You want to grapple every day. You want to spar all the time.
Every single session that you walk out of without getting injured,
it's like you just dodged a bullet.
Every single session.
In every single session you can get injured.
And that's even just training, right?
Well, it's really like wrestling and grappling.
Wrestling, like if you get out of wrestling without getting injured,
you dodged a bullet for real.
Well, everybody's got that cauliflower here, it seems like, that is even in that sport.
It's like obviously someone's getting hurt.
Yeah.
We've got over 150 people in the live stream.
I noticed that we were actually on the front page of Rumble, so that's good.
And we actually are going to take some call-ins.
If somebody wants to call in and ask a question about fighting
or wants to ask Brother Jordanel a question,
you can call 231-BABDIS and we'll be taking some calls.
Of course, you can also put some comments in the live chat
and we'll maybe ask some questions.
Someone wanted to ask you, Brother Jordanel, who's a better trash talker?
Shonen or McGregor?
Chael Sonnen.
Chael Sonnen or Conor McGregor?
Conor.
Chael Sonnen is more like scripted trash talk, kind of.
Conor is just off the hip.
He seems like the guy is just like me.
He just says whatever comes to his head.
Conor is just funny.
He's a little bit funnier with it, whereas Chael Sonnen is more witty.
Chael is a troll.
It seems like McGregor is kind of like a villain.
Yeah, that's true.
Conor McGregor is just a complete jerk, though.
Do some of these guys try to be a villain, kind of?
Is that how it works?
I don't think they try.
I think he is just a bad guy in general.
I think he just exacerbates it a bit and just puts it out there and just gives people what
they want to see, but it is him.
If you are generally not a bad guy, it is going to be pretty difficult to fake that.
I don't think he is faking it.
What about Sean Strickland?
He seems like he just does not care what other people think about him.
He is giving some spicy interviews.
What do you think about Sean Strickland?
I like that he speaks his mind and he is not scared.
He says some pretty bold things about different topics.
What about Ryan Garcia?
What weight class is he in?
He seems like kind of a...
140.
140?
Yeah.
He's like at the top of the food chain, right?
Isn't he pretty much the best in his weight class?
Yeah, in boxing.
Well, he's not a champion.
He doesn't have a belt.
He doesn't have a belt?
In boxing, each weight class has four champs.
He doesn't have any of the belts.
But he just beat a champion, but he missed weight.
So because he missed weight, he didn't get the belt.
So that means he just didn't get to fight?
No, he fought.
Oh.
And he won.
But because he didn't meet weight, he just doesn't get the belt?
Yeah.
What's the point?
But because he's a superstar, it doesn't matter.
The belts are supposed to be there to promote you and build you up. Hey, this guy's the champion. He's already a superstar. He doesn't need the belt. He's more famous than all those people who have belts. It doesn't really matter.
Here's someone from the chat asking, "Jornel, from your perspective, what do you think about Ryan Garcia acting like a maniac and claiming the name of Jesus at the same time?"
I think he needs help. I think he needs a big brother. I think he needs somebody to help guide him. I think he just doesn't have any guidance.
He's somebody who's on the verge of religious psychosis. If he doesn't get somebody to give him the real gospel and get him saved, I think he's going to snap.
Obviously, he has some kind of zeal just not according to knowledge, and he says anything that comes to his mind.
In one interview, he's saying, "Thank you, Jesus." In the same interview, he's saying the most profane things at the same time.
So he has some kind of zeal there, but at the same time, he's just really wicked and he's not saved.
I've seen an interview where he talked about how he says that hell is just separation from God, and that if you reject God, then that's what...
He basically didn't believe that hell was like fire and brimstone. He didn't say that, but he just described hell in a different way.
He just figured it.
Yeah, he described it in a different way, so he's not saved, but I do believe he would get saved easily if somebody could just give him the gospel.
Again, he trains here in Dallas, so we've got to knock his door.
Bearded Baptist in the chat room is asking if you've actually been able to get anyone saved in the mixed martial arts business.
My friends and family and stuff, like all my friends, people who are around me, I've gotten a lot of my friends saved, but anyone famous that I could think of, no. No one that I could think of that's famous.
What about, do you even get an opportunity to interact with these people, like on a one-on-one basis?
Some of them, some of them, but I just didn't take advantage of the opportunities that I did get.
You know, Michael Venom Page, he just got signed to the UFC, and he's my friend Mike Kimball's good friend,
so I've been around him a lot, but I just never gave him the golfer. We're always in settings where there's a bunch of people around and stuff like that.
So when it comes to religious beliefs, obviously some of these fighters bring in the religious beliefs.
I think that Andrew Tate, he talks about Islam, and there's definitely Muslim fighters, there's some Christian fighters.
Do you find that there's any kind of animosity between fighters based on religious differences?
I mean, we just had that with Ryan Garcia and Devin Haney, and Devin Haney is like an avid Muslim, and Ryan Garcia is a supposed Christian,
and they kind of like had differences because of that, and what sucks to me, what's annoying to me is that the guy who's the Muslim, he was caring himself so well,
he's so like well-spoken, and like just he was disciplined, he made weight, and then the guy who's like a supposed Christian,
who was just acting a complete fool, and it just makes people, you know, blaspheme God because you got this moron who's claiming Christ,
and it just sucks that even everyone who claims Christ is, you know, people believe that that's a Christian because he mentions the name of Jesus.
I want to play another clip from some of your fights here and just get some more perspective on what's going on through your mind.
There was a, maybe we can play clip two from Romulus, is that how you guys say this guy's name's fight?
-Cortavius. -Cortavius Romulus.
-Romeus, something like that. -Yeah.
-Cortavius is first name now. -Let's see if we can play this clip from about the nine minute mark.
Go ahead and play it.
-Avius definitely came out swinging, came out strong, you know?
Jornel felt his power, he was able to survive it, so, you know, we'll see if he gets a second burst right here and can, you know,
and bring that explosion back from round one.
-All right, Jornel was in the blue trunks.
-I should have told you guys how to get access to all my other fights too, I know.
-That would have been nice. -Yeah.
-The amount of muscle he's packed onto that 135-pound frame.
-Yeah, he's a specimen for sure. -Oh, my gosh.
Just 5'3".
-Do you have vivid memories of this fight, Jornel?
-Yeah, I remember it.
He was a very strong guy.
He had so much muscle that he would get really tired.
-That's what I was saying. He's got a ton of muscle mass.
-So what's your strategy when you're fighting someone like Chris?
-For him, I wanted to use feints to draw out his counters
because every time I would throw a punch, that's what he would throw.
So for him in particular, I wanted to draw his counters out.
So that way he would get himself tired using all those big muscles,
and that would open up my chance to get him.
-Yeah, he definitely has muscle mass on him for sure.
But he gassed out, you're saying?
-Yeah, like in the next round I took him down and he just wasn't able to get up.
He was just too tired. -Right.
So that puts you at a huge advantage when you have that endurance,
when you have that ability, the longevity.
-At what point do most fighters start getting tired, do you think?
-It depends how hard you're fighting.
You can fight at a pace that you can go forever, like all night.
Then you can fight hard enough to get yourself gassed on the first round.
-Isn't it exhausting when you're on the ground, Jordanel?
-All of it is. -All of it is, okay.
-Yeah, but especially on the ground.
You're using your muscle, you're using a lot of strength,
and everything's on the line, your adrenaline is up, so it's all tiring.
-My foot got stuck there. -Damn it.
-Got stuck in the cage? -No, it got stuck on his leg.
I tried to get up right there and it was like under his butt.
-So that's, yeah, that was round one there.
I felt like that was a fairly exciting round.
A lot of strikes, you get a knee in there.
-I hate watching old fights of mine where I'm a lot better than that.
That's not me anymore. -Because of the improvement.
-Yeah, like, I don't fight that way anymore.
-Yeah, but it's probably still good to kind of see, you know, maybe your evolution
and kind of think, like, have I made good changes or not.
-Yeah, yeah, for sure.
-And you listen to some of your old preaching, right, Pastor Shelley?
-No. -Yeah, me too, man.
-You don't listen to any of your old preaching?
Do you ever listen to any of your preaching? -My point goes down the drain.
-I usually kind of listen to recent sermons just to get an idea of how things are going,
especially just audio and video issues, because you never know how it actually came across on the show.
So that's helped me. I do that just to kind of check and see what things look like.
But I don't really want to watch myself preach or anything like that,
but I think that just watching it helps me to improve overall,
because I'll remember what I was thinking in the moment,
and there's sometimes where I wanted to bring up a verse or there was something I wanted to say,
and I ended up not saying it, but then afterwards what I can do is I can be reminded to go look that up,
so then maybe I'll do better in the future.
I definitely feel like I need to...
I need sometimes that reminder of looking things up, and I need to slowly improve.
This is a pretty interesting fight that we have.
Someone wanted to... I think it was you, Ben. You wanted to look at an article, too.
There's an article that we can pull up.
It's a little older, but I think it was relevant to what you were talking about.
How old is the article?
From 2015.
Oh, okay. So that is a while ago.
This article from Dana White about the UFC?
Yeah. So you were talking about whether or not there's been conflict
between fighters based on religious views, and this doesn't necessarily cover that,
it does cover conflict, not between fighter and fighter, but fighter and promoter.
So what's the article about?
And in 2015, Dana White actually told Yola Romero,
"America doesn't want to hear your thoughts on Jesus."
And basically after a fight that he won, he thanks...
Is that even true?
He thanks the Lord Jesus Christ. Yeah, it is true.
He thanks the Lord Jesus Christ.
I meant, is it true that America doesn't really want to hear thoughts on Jesus?
I apologize. Sorry. Misunderstood you.
My point is that this guy, he thanks Jesus, and then Dana White's like, "Why don't you thank your trainers?
Why don't you thank people in your orbit, your friends, your family, whatever?
Just keep the Jesus stuff at home." What do you think about that?
What about this quote? This is a quote from the article.
It says, "Wake up USA. Go, go back for you. Go, go for Jesus, not for gay Jesus people."
That's not what he said, but yeah.
But then it says that's what he appeared to say, but he said, "Don't forget Jesus," is what he was trying to say maybe.
Yeah.
Or?
He has an accent, yeah.
Oh, okay. Where is he from?
He's Cuban.
Yeah.
So do you remember this event, or what happened?
I don't remember watching that exact event, but yeah, he said, "No for gay Jesus," but he meant to say, "Don't forget Jesus."
Yeah.
He said, "No for gay Jesus," something like that.
Yeah, yeah, that sounds right.
But I think the reason I wanted to--
But if they get mad about something, then they're just going to get mad about it, right?
The reason I wanted to bring this up is just for the fact that if you're going to be open about your faith
and somebody who's zealous for the things of God and it comes out in your professional fighting career,
it could potentially lead to some issues.
And even with the promoter saying things like, "Hey, just keep that at home,"
and maybe even critiquing you for openly discussing the fact that you're a Christian,
do you kind of think that that might be a problem?
I think it's hypocritical because, like we said before, they're looking for characters,
they're looking for people who have personality, and if that's really who you are,
then you should be whoever you really are.
And if they say, "Oh, don't do that," then they're basically saying, like, "Cut your personality down,"
or "Cut who you are down," and then you have less to offer.
But that's what makes you—everybody has things that they believe in,
things they don't believe in, things that they like, and those are what makes you your character, right?
If it was a WWE, you would have your own character based on the things that you believe in, don't believe in, right?
So everyone should be able to believe what they want to believe, but you have to limit it.
But I think there's a lot more freedom than you would think there is.
I think you could go pretty far as far as what you believed.
Well, on this article, it kind of is quoting Dana White here, and at the end it says, "Love Jesus all you want. You just don't have to do it publicly."
Is that really compatible with the idea of loving Jesus all you want, but you can't do it publicly? How does that work?
That's weird. I think he was like feeling some type of way at that point. I feel like he changed his tune since then.
Is Dana White religious at all?
He changed his tune since then, though.
Yeah, I mean, I feel like he doesn't even care about anything. He seems to be pretty agnostic and just wants his fighters to be able to say anything they want, right?
He's politically right-leaning at the very least.
He likes Trump, right?
Yeah, he likes Trump.
Trump likes him a mage, right?
During the whole COVID, he went out of his way to make sure they still were doing everything, they were fighting.
Right, so maybe he's mellowed out on this.
I think at that point, he changed his mind.
He has changed. That's good. That's good to hear.
At the time, he was saying something like this, and it does bring up the question of whether or not the promoter might have a problem.
But you're right, Jonel. It would be hypocritical if that's the case just because of the fact that they want you to have individuality to show who you actually are as a person.
And if that's who you are, if your identity is found in Christ, there should be no problem with you demonstrating that publicly.
I remember working for a company and they had this rule like no religion while we were working.
And then they would just sit there and talk about the Big Bang Theory and how there's no God.
And it was just like, how is this not religious?
Like, you know, I guess just dissing Jesus is all of a sudden not religious.
But you can't be like pro-Jesus because that's now all of a sudden religious or something like that.
It's just code for "I don't like God."
Yeah, it's just code for like don't bring up anything about Jesus is kind of the no religious specifically.
Because I mean, again, can you imagine what the article would be like?
Don't bring your Islam beliefs here. Don't talk about Allah or something like that.
I mean, I don't think that they would ever risk hurting their Islamic or Muslim or Jewish leadership.
Well, yeah, don't bring your Jewish God here.
Yeah, don't bring your Talmud or your Kabbalah or whatever to that.
But again, is there an even Jewish fighter? Is there like a is this like really big Jewish fighter?
I'm sure there's a few fighters. I know there was an Israeli fighter, but being Israeli doesn't mean you're Jewish.
He was an Israeli fighter though in Bellator and he was pretty popular and but not in the UFC that I can think of.
I don't think he was Jewish though.
Just kind of interesting. I want to play let's play another one of his clips. I want to go to one of your press conferences.
Now you have to go and talk to people. You probably have to do this but before fights and after fights.
Do you have to do press conferences?
Yeah, if you win after.
Okay. Yeah.
Do you even have to do press conferences if you lose? Do they ever want to like just ask you about it?
If you're like very, very popular.
Yeah.
So we have a press conference. Let's see if we can play a little clip here from the press conference.
I don't think we can hear it.
You should probably let everybody know behind the scenes that you just passed out a box of donuts to everybody in the media.
Was that just a well-placed strategic decision to maybe get some kindness from the media today?
Well, I got it for the Bellator staff because they always treat me so nice and stuff like that and they pay my bills.
So really you weren't thinking about this at all?
You know, you guys helped the situation so I got something for you too.
Now, it begs the question because you've got to make weight here soon.
Were you able to indulge at all and enjoy it?
If I eat one of those, I'm missing weight. One, I'm missing weight.
Well, talk about this. I mean, obviously, kind of this matchup has been pretty exciting since it first announced
because it's kind of two prospects that have some momentum, I guess.
What did you think when they paired you guys up?
I thought it was a good matchup. You know, he's a 6-0, he's undefeated. I'm 8-1, I'm coming off my first loss.
I thought it was a fair matchup so I can't complain about it. I like it.
When there was a need to reschedule it, I mean, were you aiming to let's keep it together or were you saying just give me whoever I don't care, I'd like to stay busy?
Um, I mean I didn't really care either way but it was good that we, you know, because either way we're going to have to fight each other.
All of us are going to have to fight each other at some point so we may as well just get it, let's get it out the way, let's just get it done.
Have you been watching his rise up as well? It's kind of similar to yours and what do you think about him as an opponent?
Yeah, I've seen his debut. I remember I watched his debut when he first fought on Bellator and stuff like that and yeah, I watched all his fights.
So I think he's a good fighter. Does he present any challenges that you haven't seen before or anything that you're concerned with?
After that Danny fight, no. I don't think anyone's going to bring anything I haven't seen yet.
He thinks you guys are going to end up facing each other maybe a couple times down the road as well. Do you kind of see that as well?
Yeah, it's possible because we're young. I'm 27 and he's 25, something like that. So yeah, we have a lot more room to grow so it's only a matter of time. We might fight again.
Last thing for me, I guess the goal here, just a victory or is it something about putting the past behind and getting back in that winning column?
Definitely want to get back in the winning column but I just want to prosper in my sport, man. I work so hard so I don't want to come out here and not be able to dominate. So I definitely want to come out here and show that I'm here to stay.
Hey Jordan, what's up man? Almost a nine month layoff between your last fight and now. Do you think that this might be the most you've ever improved between two fights?
Oh yeah, I'm going to show you guys on Saturday for sure.
Now we can cut the audio for a second or pause it, but what was your mindset going into this fight?
I just wanted to like win. I just wanted to win and just like get back in the win column like that guy said.
Yeah. Well it was funny. He's like, so is it just about winning or getting back in the win column?
Same thing.
Same thing, but the media can be funny.
I was just so focused on like just winning in general and I wind up losing that fight because of decisions that I made in the fight that I didn't have to make.
Like I could have, if I would just fought more so like to beat him up and to finish him as opposed to just like getting a judge's decision,
I think I would have been able to beat him and probably even stop him.
But I kind of made decisions just based on like I got to make sure I win. It wasn't really about like hurting him or it wasn't even kind of like a fight.
It was just kind of like I wanted to just do whatever I had to do so the judges could give me the decision.
And like just for example, so this guy wanted to take me to the ground and he couldn't and I was better than him on the feet.
And when he went to take me down, I would stop him. I would stop his takedowns.
But then in the second round, he fell on his own. And in my mind, I had a choice.
I was like, I know I'm better on the feet, but if I just get on top of him because the way MMA used to work, it doesn't work like this anymore.
But when I was growing up, this is how it always was. If you were on top of someone, you were pretty much winning.
It didn't matter what was going on, you were winning because you were on top.
So I just kind of thought to myself, well, the easiest path to victory, because there's no way he's that much better than me, I could just ride it out on top and win the round.
And so I was like, okay, I'm just going to jump on top of him and take the easy path as opposed to like, no, let me just bring him to a position to where I know I could dominate him.
I just wanted to make sure I got that easy one. It wasn't really like a fighter mentality.
So I kind of jumped on top of him and I was getting most of the round, the second round,
and then he reversed it in like the last 30 seconds and one or two of the judges gave him the round because of that.
And then the same thing in the next round. He comes out, he goes take me down. I went up on top of him.
I stopped the take down. I got on top of him. Instead of just standing up, I just think, you know,
what are the chances he's not going to be able to get me over again? And I think I won that last round anyway.
I could just do this again. And then he reversed it again and the judge gave him that round.
Is there ability like when you're fighting, let's say you feel like you kind of have the win in the round
to like just kind of back off and just like let go of them and just kind of like force them to make their move?
You could.
How does that work?
You could if you wanted, yeah, for sure. But that was kind of like not my mindset.
And because of that fight, that's what motivated me to kind of like start training people and separate the career from my money.
Because I just felt like when you rely on them solely for money, it's really important that you just get the W.
But then when it's just about getting the W, you kind of lose a lot of the perspectives of the sport that are important.
For example, it's an entertainment sport.
So if I'm just trying to get the W and I'm like, I don't care what they think, I'm just going to make sure I win, then you're not entertaining the fans.
And then you're not really doing your job. And my job is to entertain the fans.
Also, if my mindset is not on I want to hurt this guy or knock him out because all I want to do is just get the W, then I'm going to fight a lot differently too.
So now that I train people and I make money outside of fighting, I feel like my mindset going in the future is going to be a lot better because I don't really care about the win or lose per se.
I'm just going in there to hurt someone, to try to knock someone out.
I think I saw a little bit of this fight on your shorts. It looks like you have them kind of embroidered or plastered on their KJV only. What gave you that idea?
Because we believe in King James Version only. So I got it on the back of this t-shirt that I'm wearing right now, had it on my shorts, Bible verse on it, my mouthpiece says "saved" on it.
Nice. So little messages like that, so people who are watching who've never heard of KJV only, who've never heard of some of these spiritual topics, maybe that catches their eye.
Maybe they end up doing some more research as a result and who knows, years down the line they become King James only because they saw your trunks or they saw something on your shirt. I like that.
That's all we can ask too. People are not just going to get directly saved because of these little things, but there's just so much negative influence in the world that just any little positive influence of truth, try to add it in there. But it's still not a substitute for just going soul winning and stuff like that.
Well, obviously when it comes to this sport, it seems like the kind of idea is that there's a time to fight. These are strategic moments of battle. How does that translate into the spiritual you think, Ben? Is there a time to fight?
Absolutely, there is. There's a time to fight. There's a time for war. There's a time for peace. I think that when it comes to the spiritual world and the Christian life as a whole, yeah, you have to make that determination. Is there a time to fight?
The answer is yes. And I think that time comes when we're dealing with false doctrine, when we're dealing with false prophets, when we're dealing with which Bible we're going to read, when we're dealing with how to get to heaven. Is it salvation by faith? Is it salvation by works? When we're dealing with the Godhead, the Trinity, who Jesus Christ is, all these different subjects that are under attack right now, all these different subjects where there are lies all over the internet about those topics. Yes, there is a time to fight.
How does that translate into the spiritual for you, Jornel? Do you feel like some of the mindset or techniques you have in real fighting actually relate to the spiritual for you?
Yeah, well, I feel like a lot of the discipline that I've learned from fighting, like how to not be a quitter, always showing up, never quitting, I just feel like as a Christian, if you are so disciplined to make sure you always show up to training and you make sure you're always there and you're studying and you're doing all these things, I feel like the least you can do is have that same energy towards God.
Make sure you also show up at church and you're disciplined to go to church, you're disciplined to go soul-winning, because everything good comes from God.
So my mindset is always kind of like, if you're going to give fighting that kind of energy, then you better make sure you're giving God the same kind of energy.
So fighting is actually what really got me back on the right track when it comes to my walk with God, because before I was backslidden and stuff like that, and I felt like I wanted to win so bad.
And it's like, God says, like, if you keep my commandments, you're going to be blessed. So I kind of took that as like, okay, if I want to prosper in life, I better start doing things the right way. And that's kind of what got me back on the right track.
Well, talking about your spiritual journey, how did you even get saved? Like, give us a little quick testimonial here. Like, what happened?
So I'm not sure if I got saved when I was five or I got saved when I was about 15 or 16. When I was five years old, I heard the gospel for the first time when some other children, they had just gotten saved.
And when one of the pastors announced that they got saved, I heard that, and I was like, "What do you mean they got saved? Where did they get saved from?" And he's like, "From going to hell." I'm just like, "What? How do you get saved from going to hell? I don't want to go to hell."
Yeah.
Like, literally, that's how I got it. He wanted to give me the gospel, and he told me that Jesus died for me and things like that. And he told me if I accepted him in my heart, I would be saved. So I just had to ask God to come in my heart and save me. That's like the words that they used.
So I just remember being, like, young and praying that as hard as I could. "I believe you died for me. Please save me."
So at that point, that's all I knew. And growing up, I just always thought to myself, "I'm not religious, but I believe in Jesus. I believe in Jesus."
I always thought that to myself. And then one day my brother meets a guy. My brother Marcel, he meets a guy named, we call him Pastor Cam.
Turns out he's not a pastor. He's like a false prophet. But this guy, he pretty much took me under his wing.
And in some pretty weird circumstances, because I'm like 14 or 15 years old at the time, and I would sleep over his house and his bed.
Yeah, I don't know if I told you guys this, but yeah. I would sleep in his house, in his bed.
And my mom used to say, "That's kind of weird. I don't know about that." That's it. Like that's all she would say.
And you know the crazy part is I'm 14 or 15. I'm like a grown man. But now looking back at that, I'm like, "What was I thinking?"
I'm sleeping in this man's bed. And there would be times this guy, this is a side story.
But there would be times like I was sleeping and he'd be like rubbing my belly.
And then I'd wake up and I'm like, "What are you doing?" Well, I didn't say that. I was kind of like startled a little bit.
He'd be like, "I'm rubbing the anointing into you." I'd be like, "Oh, okay. Yeah, I need that. Okay."
And I'd go back to sleep. He'd be like, "Yeah." Whoa.
Yeah, he'd even sometimes start almost getting under my underwear.
And I'd scoot down. I'm like, "What the heck?" What the world?
Yeah, this guy is a creep, man. So anyways, this does add into it.
This got weird. Yeah, it's very... Oh man, that guy's a freak.
Yeah, he was. And this happened regularly. He had a children's ministry.
So I would get all my friends from school and bring them.
I had his house packed, like 15 kids from my school. I would bring them.
And he'd just be there, I don't know, doing his little creeper thing.
But anyways, one night... It sounds like Michael Jackson or something.
I don't even know. Yeah, this guy is a creeper.
But one night he had the TV playing. It was like TBN.
And Joseph Prince was on the TV. Yeah.
And he had a book called "Destined to Reign."
And in that book he pretty much goes over like eternal security.
So I wind up being very intrigued by the message in that sermon he was preaching.
And I wind up getting that book. It's called "Destined to Reign."
And that pretty much begun my journey in trying to figure out about one saved always saved.
So I started looking on the internet, reading my Bible, reading that book.
And then I kind of just came to the conclusion, I'm like, "You can't lose your salvation."
You know, once you're saved you're always saved.
And then I kind of read John 3.16 and it's like, "Whosoever believes in him shall not perish."
But everlasting life, and that kind of just, it just clicked. I'm like, "You can't lose your salvation."
And then that guy came over and I'm like, "You lied to me."
Because one day there was a Baptist church and I asked him, I said, "What do those people believe?"
And he said, "They believe in one saved that always saved."
He said, "They believe you can never lose your salvation no matter what you do."
And I was just like, "Hmm, interesting." I didn't think anything about it.
I was just like, "Okay, that's what they believe. Okay."
And so when he came that day at that point, I'm like, "Those people were right."
And I'm like, "You're the one that, you said that you have to do all these things."
So it's just about believing, and we got into like an argument pretty much.
And then we broke up at that point.
- Oh, man. - After that, that was it.
- That sounds like a good thing that happened.
- That guy still calls me to this day, though. - Oh, man.
- He still calls my phone and leaves messages. - What a freak.
- This guy's a creep. - Tell him to go to hell.
- So I don't know if I was saved when I was five, though,
or if I was saved when I learned about eternal security.
I'm just not sure because-- - Sounds like five.
- Yeah, I would lean towards that, too. - You got saved at five.
- It sounds like you probably just got saved and you got better understanding.
- Pastor Thompson in the chat room is asking if Bellator would allow you to put a church as your sponsor.
- I don't see why not.
- I don't know that it's about him as a person, just the promotion itself, right?
- Oh, okay, never mind. Yeah, would Bellator allow a church to be a sponsor?
I don't know about that, but I think you could at least probably put it on your trunks potentially.
- I don't see why they wouldn't. When it comes to things that are prohibited, they tell you like no profanity,
no drugs or competing sponsor companies. So let's say if they're already sponsored by some kind of CBD company,
you can have a competing CBD company on there. So if it's not profanity or anything that's pretty much
a competitor of theirs, you can pretty much put whatever you want. That's why I had KJV on mine instead.
- I think that's testing the limits a little bit. - Yeah, they probably wouldn't let that.
Well, maybe if they didn't know what that even meant and they just didn't look into it.
But once they found out what that was, if it got back, they'd probably be like, "What the hell?"
Yeah. I think that when it comes to advertising, you have to be pretty generic.
Sodom and Inception did have a billboard, but it was for a week.
That might be our one time to have a promotion for the film like that.
- I mean, unless we could buy a billboard. - That's true.
That's interesting. It would be an interesting proposition to see, you know, can we get Steadfast Baptist Church on the Octagon or something like that?
- I don't know how much money. - Not in the UFC though.
I think that, didn't Bud Light pay like something insane, like $100 million or something like that to be a part of the UFC promotion?
Or is it like their main sponsor? What is the number? I think that's out there. We can look it up.
We should look it up and see. I think that Bud Light paid just like an insane amount of money.
Maybe they didn't actually say and everybody was just speculating.
That was a controversy though, wasn't it?
I think so.
Because Bud Light loves trainees and everybody hates trainees who's normal and has a functioning brain.
So it ended up being a controversy as I try to fill the dead air.
It's a multi-year marketing partnership. I don't think that they want to say how much money it was.
Oh, well into nine figures.
$100 million is what someone texted me. Richard says, "The UFC recently signed a multi-year sponsorship deal reportedly worth over $100 million with American beer giant Bud Light."
So, you know, we could do that. We're just about $100 million light.
So if we can get $100 million, then we could be the primary sponsor of UFC. What do you think?
All you need is just to ask for some donations.
Yeah, I mean, we got 174 people in the live chat. So, you know, each one gives $1 million.
Yes.
We're calling on our audience right now.
Come on, folks. Dig deep.
We're taking calls. You've got to pledge in $1 million.
$1 million each.
And we'll get a meter here to see how far we're going.
We're still waiting on our first. You could be the first.
You know how people want to be the first on comments? Like, first?
Yes.
You're the first person to donate a million and you could really inspire a lot of people.
We'll give them a t-shirt.
We'll give you a t-shirt for your million dollar donation.
Yeah, yeah.
A t-shirt.
You do have to pay the shipping though.
And you have to pay the shipping.
It is a free t-shirt.
This is getting more enticing by the second.
A t-shirt for a million dollars.
You will be entertained.
I need to sneeze if you guys want to be my buddy.
Yeah, they would never let that happen.
Well, we have several clips of your fighting.
But at the same time, I think it's important to talk about the spiritual fight.
Yes, let's transition.
Because you want to be dominant in the octagon is what you said.
What about being dominant spiritually?
Do you feel like this is also an important concept?
It's more important than damn fighting.
Fighting doesn't really matter.
Yeah, your spiritual walk is everything and it's a battle that never ends.
Fighting is a lot easier.
I would ask you guys, what do you think is harder, to be a martyr, to die for Christ,
but only have been living for God for maybe two or three years?
Or living a life, 80 years, serving God without backsliding?
Or if you did backslide, getting back on track?
Well, I think personally when it comes to martyrdom, the more I've thought about it,
I think that the biggest sacrifice related to martyrdom is actually your age.
So you have like Jephthah's daughter who ends up being a martyr in a sense,
where she has to be a sacrifice for her father and she bewails her virginity.
So I almost would think like, you know, if you're like 80 or 90 years old
and you've lived a full life and you're kind of, you're already hurting physically,
like being a martyr at that point in your age or at that point in life
would not be the same sacrifice as a young person,
especially that's maybe not had any children, not been married,
or if you were newly married or had children.
I feel like the sacrifice there is actually a lot greater in my kind of perspective.
And Jesus Christ even kind of died at prime of life.
So you could kind of think, in my mind at least,
that to die at the prime of your life would be a bigger sacrifice than towards the end.
I think being a martyr is always going to be difficult.
Again, in my mind, I would think that the older you get, the easier it may be to be willing to die for Christ.
I don't know what you think about that, Ben.
What do you think about this idea of the age kind of having some impact on your desire or willingness to be a martyr?
Yeah, if you've lived a longer life and you've accomplished more things,
it's probable that you may be more at peace with it all ending through martyrdom.
But regardless of whether it's easier or harder the longer you lived,
I think us in the New Testament don't have to deal with the prospect of this happening anytime soon.
When you look at the New Testament, you've got John the Baptist, you've got the implication of Peter, you've got Antipas.
There aren't that many martyrs, is my point.
Obviously, if Daniel's 70th week commences tomorrow, that may change.
But I think that when it comes to martyrdom, it's just not something I personally think about very much,
because I think the prospect of that happening is so low.
I do want to mention in the chat room here, we are now officially at one dollar.
We're one dollar closer to a hundred million.
One hundred million dollar drive to get Steadfast Baptist Church on the mat.
We will not let Ben leave until we've collected the hundred million, okay?
I'm willing to allow him to stay on air until we raise the funds, folks.
Okay, so we can change it to just send Ben home.
Send Ben home fund, right.
But yeah, in general with that, what I was saying though is like,
just the difficulty of staying on the right path your whole life in general is not an easy thing to do.
It is not an easy thing because there are so many Bible characters, Brother Jordanel, that failed in that area.
Look at the end of Solomon's life. Didn't exactly end the way he would have liked,
and he's one of the greatest Bible characters we can point to.
There's a lot of guys who didn't finish the way I'm sure they would have liked to finish their life.
So to have that longevity, Pastor Anderson said on the last livestream that we did,
the Q&A, I believe it was, that the Christian life is measured in decades, not in mere years.
Well, and of course you do see in the Bible a lot of the older people actually getting into big sins.
So I think that there's a likelihood, too, of just as you get older, getting backslidden,
maybe losing energy, losing steam, and of course when we think about fighting or sports,
there's kind of a timetable for a lot of people.
I know at least I play a lot of golf and a lot of people can play golf for a long time,
but even at the highest level, once you reach about the age of 50 in golf,
it's kind of like you don't really have much of a chance to really compete at the highest level.
When it comes to fighting, what kind of age does it seem like people are kind of maxed out?
Probably around 38, 39.
So they still in their 30s still have a lot left in the tank potentially?
Yeah, you could be at the highest level, 38, 39, maybe 40.
You can still fight in the UFC and still be a fight against world-class opponents,
but you're not going to be at your prime anymore. You're going to be on the downside of that.
So you probably want to get out of there at least by 41 or 42. So it's a short-lived game.
What about, do some of the fighters that have fought for that long,
suffer from things like concussion injuries or other kinds of injuries for having been in that industry for so long?
Well, MMA hasn't been around that long. The UFC came out in 1993, so we really haven't seen so much of the results of that yet.
But we know in boxing, a lot of them can't speak. They lose a lot of their speaking ability.
And CTE, and a lot of them have died in the ring. Most people die in the ring a year, every single year, not in MMA.
In boxing specifically?
Yeah, because there's so many punches to the head. Think about in boxing, like in MMA, if you get dropped, the fight's probably going to be over. They're going to stop the fight.
In boxing, you can get rocked and be like on your back, dizzy, and get up in 10 seconds. Really, it's like 20 seconds.
Yeah, it is a long time. It is a long time.
And then you can keep fighting, and you can get knocked down three more times in one fight. It's not good for your brain.
Yeah, and I mean, again, like we don't even know the status of what's going on in that guy's head if he's just, you know, just kind of a drone just getting back up and getting back up.
I mean, like the guy that you just choked in the clip we had, he got back up in less than 10 seconds.
He went and kept fighting.
So in boxing, he's just, you know, round three or whatever it is.
Let's go. Keep going.
Oh, man.
Yeah, so a lot of head trauma is going on.
A lot of people are excited about the Benathon.
You can call in 231-Baptist.
You can pledge because Ben's not going home, folks.
Apparently not.
We've got a lot of money to pledge here for the UFC promotion.
Yes. Well, we could shoot for the stars.
We'll see what happens.
Or maybe perhaps you could do like some WWE promotion for us, Ben.
Hey, I'd like that for sure.
What would be your name if you were in WWE?
Have we thought about it?
Probably something Middle Eastern.
Yeah.
Sheik Abdul.
How about that?
The guy that goes boom.
Yes.
Something like that.
There we go.
I'd be the foreign heel coming in and talking about how America sucks and Middle East is
the way to go.
Well, when it comes to fighting though, and this is what I think is interesting.
He's obviously scheduling fights physically.
Is there a time to schedule fights spiritually, Ben?
What do you think about this?
Well, I think maybe we did that this past Thursday night with our debate.
What debate?
The Red Heifer.
Oh, okay.
Yeah, someone said in here, "Are you going to do any more debates?"
Do people like this as well?
Do they like the spiritual smackdown, the spiritual octagon?
Because that's what it felt like to me.
It felt like we scheduled a fight, a spiritual battle against enemies, including I would
say both of them actually, who hate the Lord Jesus Christ.
And what happened is you had, it was like a tag team match where you go in there and
you spiritually do battle over the idea of this red heifer and Judaism and what the Bible
actually says.
So yeah, there is for sure a time to schedule something.
The Apostle Paul went, he contended for the faith in the face of the Jews, the Pharisees
and the Sadducees as well.
So there's a time and a place to schedule something, there's a time and a place to
fight the good fight of faith.
And here's my question for you, Pastor Shelley, because we're talking about a time to actually
fight, what about is there a time to actually not fight, a time to hold back?
We saw Elisha in Second Kings, he didn't wipe out the Syrian army when he had an opportunity
to do so.
The Bible talks about love your enemies.
Talk about some occasions maybe where we need to hold back and not contend.
Well, I do want to ask the audience, if you guys like the debates, you like them, you
want more, why don't you put a W in the chat?
If you think that they're just not worth it, put an L in the chat, let's see what our audience
kind of thinks about this.
Someone like this.
Miss King loves Sheik.
If they want to see more debates.
Loves that wrestling name I came up with.
I think debates are good.
Someone says your name could have been the Tally Bum, so there you go.
That's good too.
I see W's.
I got some W's in the chat.
Oh nice.
Look at the W's right there.
The W's are flowing.
They're just, you know, I guess they like the Smackdowns.
After the other.
You know, I'm actually, there's a couple that have been floated out there for me to maybe
do a round two with Adam or there's a guy named Brother Nathaniel, who's like a famous
Orthodox guy that maybe wants to do one on eternal security.
So I think we might, we might just do some more.
I actually did one on standing for truth as well with Donnie Budinski.
He was the moderator and the chip.
We put it, we put it on our channel as well against a guy named Turreton fan.
And really again, you know, I don't know that I'm necessarily going to always change the
mind of the people that we're debating with, but I think what's good is it just kind of
shows their skills versus the skills of the Bible, because it's not like I'm skilled
or anything, but I just think that the Bible is so right, no matter how good you are at
debating or bringing these topics to light, you know, you're going to do a good job.
Yeah.
And just to go back to what I was saying, I think that the time to hold back is when
it comes to our personal enemies, people who are wronging us.
But when it comes to the enemies of God, when it comes to false prophets, people who are
attacking the doctrines of the Bible, especially core issues, you better believe we're going
to be guns blazing on that.
And we have in the past had had no problem calling people out, especially you Pastor
Shelley from behind the pulpit, letting it be known this person's within range, beware,
beware of this enemy.
Well, and again, the Bible says earnestly contend with the faith.
I mean, what does that mean?
It's got to mean something, right?
Like, if I'm going to take that verse and apply it in my life, I feel like I have to
do something.
I think soul winning is an aspect of that.
What is your opinion on that verse, Dornell, when it comes to the Bible and says like earnestly
contend with the faith?
What comes to your mind when you're kind of hearing that language in the scripture?
Well, I mean, it has to be like soul winning is obviously a big point of it.
Soul winning for sure.
I think sometimes though, at one point in my life, I would think that that would be
talking about like if somebody said something that was contrary to the Bible in public
or like on social media, you should like say, "Hey, that's wrong."
But ultimately, it doesn't really matter what you say is right or wrong because if somebody's
not saved, it's going to go over their head anyway.
It's like all we have to preach is just preach the gospel and get people saved and get them
in church and get their mind right in church.
But like if you went out there and just kind of combated every false belief and false narrative
out there, it wouldn't really matter anyway because they're not saved.
It's going to go over everyone's head.
The Bible says in 1 Timothy 1, 18, "This charge I commit unto thee, son Timothy, according
to the prophecies which went before on thee, that thou by them mightest war a good warfare,
holding faith in a good conscience which some, having put away concerning faith, have made
shipwreck."
And then it calls out Hymenes and Alexander.
War a good warfare in the scriptures is what it says.
And Jonel, you bring up soul winning.
People may not know this about you, but you are a zealous soul winner.
You are for sure a zealous soul winner, and I know for a fact that you really do care
about giving people the gospel.
I could see it in your eyes when you're out there soul winning.
And to me, every time we go out and we knock doors, we're faced with the opportunity to
wage a good warfare, to fight the spiritual fight, the good fight of faith, because here
we have a soul hanging in the balance.
Are they going to accept the gospel or reject it?
Do they have false doctrine that we have to cut through using the sword of the spirit,
which is the word of God?
In some cases they have a lot of false doctrine that we have to debunk.
Talk about that zeal that you have for soul winning, Jornel, because I can tell that you
really enjoy going out there and doing it.
Yeah, for sure.
I like getting people saved and I think it's something that, for me, what makes soul winning
so important is because if you look at the population of the world, the people who are
saved, I believe, I don't know if people believe otherwise, but I believe it's like probably
less than 1% because 1% of the population, if it's 8 billion, what does that mean?
That's 80 million people, am I right, 80 million?
And what?
I suck at math more.
1% of 8 billion.
Yeah, that sounds about right.
That's 80 million people.
Well, I don't know if it's 80, it might just be 8.
No, no, no, because 800 million would be 10%.
I think that...
Maybe the chat can help us here.
Yeah, yeah, 800 million for...
10%.
And you're saying out of 8 billion?
Yeah, yeah, so...
I think it's less than 1.
I don't think 80 million people in the whole world are safe.
I kind of think it's like maybe 5% is what I thought.
Of the whole world?
Yeah.
400 million people?
Yeah, I think it's...
Well, you know, I would say it's 5% of the people that I talk to for sure.
Like that's kind of my...
It's America.
Yeah, and that's within the context of America.
But there's going to be other places in the world too where you find a lot of safe people
in pockets.
So you know, again, I don't know what the right number is.
Maybe it is right that it's 1%.
And obviously the Bible says that it's broad as the way as far as those who are not saved.
But again, when it comes to these numbers, it is speculation.
I think it's probably safe to say it's under 5% of the whole world population.
So I think 1%, I mean, you may be right.
I think it's under 1%, but I think it's probably like more like 50 million.
Because America, it's only 300 million people in America.
And if it's 5% of people that you talk to, it's 300 million people in America, 5% of
that is a lot smaller.
But whatever, say 50 million people in the world are saved, or let's just be nice, let's
be nice.
Let's say 100 million people in the world are saved.
Out of that 100 million people, how many of those soul win?
A very small percentage.
Out of that 100 million, is it even-
That's 1% again, probably at least, it's way under.
So is there a million faithful soul winners in this world?
Probably not.
A million?
Yeah.
People soul winning?
Knocking doors?
Probably not.
That's what gives me like a real drive to do it because it's not many of us doing it.
So like if you're, if you, if God's gifted, if God has put good pastors and good preaching
in your life that taught you how to preach the gospel and you're a pretty social person,
you better use that.
Yeah.
I mean, again, I think that when it comes to the number of soul winners, it's definitely
going to be small just because Jesus said that the laborers are few.
I mean, so there's no way really around that.
It's definitely important.
And I think that soul winning is one way that everyone can participate.
So when it comes to man, woman, boy, child, girl, we can all get in the fight.
And of course, you brought up this idea of when to fight.
I'm not really feeling like when I go soul winning though, I'm really fighting so much
as much as I'm just trying to earnestly get them saved and I'm trying to give them a positive
message.
I'm not really contending with people in my opinion because if I go to the door and someone's
contentious, I usually walk away or leave.
In my mind, when it comes to contending, I kind of look at it a little bit different
way.
Again, you kind of said, when is it time to fight, when is it not?
I think if someone could get saved, I don't really want to fight them.
I might fight for them or I might want to win them over.
To me, there is a time to literally fight and I want to bring up another verse.
It's Titus chapter number one.
I think we can even put it on the screen.
I think that this verse maybe brings a little bit of light to this issue.
In Titus chapter one verse 10, the Bible says, "For there are many unruly and vain talkers
and deceivers, especially they of the circumcision, whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert
whole houses teaching things which they ought not for filthy lucre's sake."
Here's the thing.
The Bible is saying in Titus chapter 1 that somebody's mouth needs to be stopped.
I almost get with these promotions and these fights, that idea of this guy's just trash
talking and saying, "No one can beat me," or whatever, so someone needs to beat him
to just shut him up.
Get that guy to stop talking so much, smack and everything.
I get the same sense that there's all these false prophets, false teachers saying all
of this nonsense, and someone needs to go out there and shut their mouth, to basically
shut them up.
To me, that's more the idea of earnestly contending the idea of going out there and
really showing them that what they're saying is false.
The apostle Paul would go into the synagogues and contend with the Jews on who Jesus is.
Jesus contended with the Jews, Elijah contended with the prophets of Baal.
To me there's precedent in scripture of great men doing this and then there's even clear
commandments talking about earnestly contending.
There's commandments that's saying by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the
gainsayers and specifically it's saying the goal should be to cause people's mouths to
stop.
What do you think about this verse, Ben?
I want to get your thoughts on this idea, is this idea not a proactive fighting?
It is because there are false prophets out there and false teachers who have a smug attitude
about their heresy and they spread it all over the internet.
So in my mind to be able to confront them on that whether it's from behind the pulpit
or even in a one-on-one setting in a debate, that is your opportunity to as you said shut
them up and spiritually punch them in the jaw to let them know, hey, we will stand up
against you.
We will not stand for your lies and your deceit that you're spreading, that you're
disseminating online and to your congregations.
And one guy that comes to mind, I'll just name the name since the Bible names names
all the time, is a guy named Jonathan Burris.
Hey Jonathan, I know you're watching.
And the thing about him is this guy makes video after video attacking the King James
Bible to set out his mission to try to dismantle King James onlyism.
That's somebody who I think his mouth ought to be stopped and it would be if he had the
intestinal fortitude to stop making tons of demands and actually debate you, Pastor Shelley,
like you would want to do.
But here's my point.
Yes.
Well, just to make it clear, this Jonathan Burris guy has been talking so much smack
on the King James Bible.
He's kind of like a deconstructionist when it comes to the King James Bible issue.
And I basically just said, why don't we just go on a moderated channel?
Let's just have an online discussion.
Let's have an online debate about it.
And since you think you know what you're talking about, let's put you to the test.
But unfortunately, he just has not been willing to have any kind of an online discussion.
He's afraid of coming on the camera and talking about these issues.
He's like trying to make it like it has to be the specific, formal, in-person debate.
And he's claiming he can't find someone to host this or something, which I don't know
if that's true or not.
But at the end of the day, like why can't you just do it online?
It would be easier, more practical.
We don't have to necessarily waste a bunch of money on this particular endeavor.
I'm not against it.
I'm saying that I would consider it still.
But at the end of the day, I'm ready right now to do it online.
And he keeps acting like he can't do it.
The guy is just so irritating to listen to.
Someone needs to shut his mouth on the King James Bible issue for sure.
And there are people out there like him who need their mouth stopped.
Like Brother Jornel, not everybody can get into the octagon.
Not everybody has the strength, the training, the ability to actually go in there.
And so we all get excited for him to go in and be the one contending and fighting.
I kind of feel like maybe the same should be spiritually too though, in the sense that
you know, women can go out there and preach the gospel.
Women can teach their children the Bible and they have their place.
But we're not going to really see women going out there and doing a smack down.
I'm sorry, the Ali Beth Stuckeys and the Candice Owens of this world are not really earnestly
contending for the faith.
They're not really the ones doing the smack down.
We need pastors and leaders to be the ones getting out there and contending, getting
their hands dirty, so to speak.
I think that it makes sense that not everybody can do this, but those who are leaders, those
who have the training, those who are the pastors of our world, the prophets, they should be
the ones going out there and contending.
Does it make sense, Brother Jornel, to have a bunch of just scrubs going out there and
fighting when there's all this money and promotion?
Don't they want the best fighters?
Yeah, the best of the best.
As for you, if you're a pastor, that's what you do.
You study.
You're always in the scriptures.
You probably have a whole bunch of scriptures memorized, ready for these kinds of battles.
Is there any topics in particular or people, groups or anything that you would love to
debate?
I mean, I would like to earnestly contend for anything, so I really ... Honestly, everything's
on the table.
I think that it's important talking about salvation.
One thing that I think would be important is to really contend with a lot of Catholics
because I feel like when we talk about the general populace, there's a lot of Catholics
who are not saved, who would get saved, I think if they were confronted with the gospel
and what the Bible really says on salvation.
I think that a lot of other denominations, a lot of other religions, they're not necessarily
as receptive, but it seems like Catholics really are.
It seems like Catholics do not want to debate.
They don't want to contend with people who believe the Bible because they're going to
be shown to be the liars that they are because they don't have the Bible on their side.
To me, people like a Nick Flentes or a Matt Walsh or some of these individuals, I think
that would be a really interesting discussion because I think that it's really clear what
the Bible says on these issues and I don't think that they have any way to really contend
for their faith.
The Catholics always have to pick on someone else.
They can never really defend their own position.
I think they're kind of weak.
What do you think about Catholicism as like a main contender or do you have like a better
one?
No, I think that's a great one.
Obviously, billions of people are deceived by it.
I believe Candace Owens recently put up something on her ex page about going to Catholicism
now and...
She just got baptized, sprinkled.
There you go.
I think we can...
Maybe we can pull it up.
There are so many people deceived by it.
It's affected my family.
It's affected people I know and love.
Candace Owens?
Candace Owens, yeah.
No, Catholic.
Yeah.
Let's back into Catholicism.
Okay.
Catholicism has affected your family.
Yes.
I just wanted to make it clear what we're talking about.
Yes.
Yes, sir.
Yeah.
So Catholicism has really negatively impacted me and my family.
It's something I came out of, actually.
So personally, I would love to have you debate somebody over that.
Some people may wonder about debating as a whole.
I've evolved on the issue.
I think that there's a place for it.
I personally wouldn't be interested in some sort of God-hating atheist.
I don't think there's any profit there, but I really like the topics that you've brought
up and want to debate, Pastor Shelley.
And you brought up people on the sidelines.
I'm not a good debater.
I don't know that I ever will be, but I cheer you on from the sidelines.
I think you would do well, honestly, but when it comes to these situations, I think just
like the same.
If Jornel's out there literally fighting someone every single day, that's not going to really
go well.
Oh, here's Candice turning into a Catholic, what kind of weird retarded outfits do these
people wear?
Like, I just-
Why are they matching?
Like-
They're both wearing-
What?
They're both wearing, well, no, no, no.
He's wearing like what looks like a long dress and she's wearing pants.
Scroll down on the picture if you can.
Yeah, she's wearing pants, he's wearing, you know, some robe or some weird dress or
skirt.
I mean, it's weird how the Catholic men, to prove how godly they are, they have to wear
this long flowing robe when Jesus literally said to beware of people which go in long
robes.
And they have all this like pagan idolatry in these Catholic churches.
You know, people like that, those are the ones that are famous though, like people like
Candace Owens, so much popularity, so many people following her.
Well, I think that this post said that she got baptized, but I don't think that she did.
I think she got sprinkled because I don't think, I don't think Catholics believe in
baptism whatsoever.
They believe in just some kind of weird sprinkling.
So I guess this is her sprinkling outfit.
You know, you go to a lot of these baby stores and they have these like christening outfits.
Have you seen that?
You ever seen a christening outfit?
What is that?
They have like these special, like it's just clothes, but it's just like, they're like,
oh, this is a christening outfits, like this special dress or some kind of outfit that
they put their baby in when they go and they sprinkle the forehead of their babies or something
like that.
It's just like a gimmick to just make a hundred bucks on, you know, this, this christening
outfit or something like that.
Have you seen that Ben?
Yes.
I haven't.
That's not anything.
Do you have a christening outfit?
I was baptized as a baby.
So they put me in one of those.
So you're definitely going to heaven.
Evidently.
Yes.
That's impressive.
I have double, a double portion of salvation, if you want to call it that.
Why did you get baptized again?
Your baptism record's pretty good.
Who all baptized you?
A Catholic priest and Adam Fannin.
I think, I think, thank you for reminding me, Pastor Shelley.
In front of the world.
I really appreciate that.
Go ahead, Jordan.
I think we should, we should, I think...
Someone said she had her pajamas on.
We need to debate Muslims, I feel like.
I feel like they're taking the world by storm right now as far as popularity and like the
mainstream media.
A lot of people who have very big, big pool, big influence are turning Islam, going Islam
pretty much.
Yeah, it's getting big.
They think it's like a red pill religion or something because they put women in garbage
bags.
No, it's not.
They need to be debated though because they love to debate.
They love to debate.
They debate all the time and everyone who debates them are usually - keep in mind they
are good at what they talk about when it comes to like pointing out the error inside the
Koran and things like that but most of the time they're unsaved.
But wait a minute, Andrew Tate subscribes to Islam to some degree, does he?
Yeah, he says he's a Muslim, yeah.
He says he's now like an adherent of Islam?
Yeah, he's not like super practicing or anything but like he's a Muslim.
Because I want to know how this works because again I know there's variations of Islam like
they're Shiite, they're Sunni but and they want to hide their women in these tents essentially.
But how does that work if Andrew Tate literally goes on the internet and goes on all these
podcasts surrounding himself with whores but then they have to act like they're so awesome
because they hide their women in tents and again isn't he like this big playboy?
I mean Andrew Tate's not married, are we supposed to assume that he's being celibate?
Like how does that reconcile with the religion of Islam?
They try to say like he's new and he's not like, he's just new.
Because doesn't Islam also not drink?
No, they don't drink.
They don't drink.
So I'm supposed to believe that Andrew Tate isn't going out and partying and drinking
and sleeping with whores, he's now a Muslim?
Evidently.
But he's new, that's what they say.
Yeah, oh he's new.
They say he's new.
He's new, yeah.
They're the ones that need to be debated man, big time.
He's a babe in Muhammad.
Well he can read, so he's probably, he needs to forget how to read or something like that.
Barely probably.
The guy's a complete loser and idiot.
Andrew Tate.
Well, is he ever going to fight again?
No, he's going to just do his influencer.
How old is he?
Mid 30s?
Yeah, mid 30s.
He's probably past, is he past kind of that age anyways?
Yeah, he's rich.
I don't know.
He's not worried about fighting.
I don't think he's going to ever do anything, but you know, he seems to be fighting the
quote spiritual battle, but every single one of his takes is just complete trash.
And why would I want to hear from a guy who made all of his money from prostitution literally
as why he's such an alpha male?
Like all these people want to act like he's just such an alpha male because he fought,
but he made all this money in catfishing dudes as well, pretending to be women.
It's disgusting.
It's filth.
It's smut.
It's gross.
It's everything that's wrong with our culture.
Don't claim you're fighting the good fight in the culture war when you are actively
denigrating it, making it even more perverted than it already is, hypocrite.
I think that, Ben, you should fight Andrew Tate.
I think you should pull him out of retirement just for you guys to square off.
Actually, I will talk crap and I have a surrogate who will go in there sitting to my right and
beat his ass.
Well, just for fun though, would you fight Andrew Tate, no cap, just like no limit for
a half a million dollars?
Sure.
You can't fake like a submission or something, it has to be a genuine submission or knockout.
Why not?
And then I'll donate it to Steadfast Baptist Church.
You don't have to do that.
I would be willing to risk your life for that if it was coming to the church for sure.
Why not?
That'd be a great promotion.
For the purpose of this podcast, why the hell not?
What would be like, would you do it for $10,000?
What is your...
Sure.
Okay.
What about you, Jordan?
Would you fight someone that's out of your weight class just for like a big promotion,
like an exhibition match or something like that?
For money, yeah.
Why not?
So again, like when it comes to these Jake, you know, and Logan fights and stuff like
that, they've never really even been professional fighters.
Is that correct?
Jake Paul?
Yeah.
He's a professional fighter.
Oh, he is a professional fighter?
Yeah, he's a boxer.
A real boxer, yeah.
Logan's a pro wrestler.
What, WWE wrestler or what?
He's the United States champion in WWE.
He's the United States champion.
Is he really?
Yeah.
WWE?
Yes.
Okay, I didn't know he fought for WWE.
What was it, did he have like a name?
Logan Paul.
Yes.
Yeah.
Okay.
He's already famous, yeah.
Currently.
Present tense.
He's currently the world champion.
Well, United States champion.
It's a midterm though.
Oh, okay.
In WWE.
Is WWE international?
Mm-hmm.
Really?
I didn't even know anybody cared outside of our country.
I found out that it existed in Lebanon.
I didn't even know it still was going on.
It was, it's big in Lebanon.
In like recess, kids are talking about it.
Kids?
Yeah.
Like, "Oh, did you see?
Was this Undertaker?
He came back."
All this stuff.
Oh, man.
I didn't know you had it out there, yeah.
I didn't even know you all had TV's or anything.
School.
We do.
Yep.
I would watch it on ART.
That's impressive.
How are you all allowed to watch that?
Don't they have like round girls walking around or something they don't have tents on?
No.
That's boxing.
Oh, that's boxing.
There's a video of like this Muslim guy kicking a ring girl.
I've seen it today.
Yeah.
She's like walking on the ring.
He kicks her.
Oh, man.
Or something.
Let's not show that.
Well, doesn't WWE even have women get into the fight sometimes?
Yes.
Yep.
Yeah.
Because that's totally real and legit, right?
Mm-hmm.
Perfectly real.
Yep.
How about this?
If you got to fight in a WWE match, who would you want to fight if you get to pick your
opponent?
I would pick The Rock.
The Rock, huh?
Mm-hmm.
Because he's the top guy.
He's the most popular human on earth, you could argue, so why not?
In WWE?
Yeah.
Do you think that these guys, Jornel, could these people make a transfer?
Like, a WWE guy, do you think he could compete in MMA or, like, in the UFC?
They've done it.
Brock Lesnar.
So there's a guy...
He was in WWE?
Brock Lesnar started out as an amateur wrestler.
He was a collegiate athlete, collegiate wrestler, one of the greatest amateur wrestlers out
there in my opinion.
He becomes a pro wrestler, then he moves into the UFC in 2010, I think was his peak, and
he was a badass in the UFC.
He was the world champion, wasn't he?
He won the UFC heavyweight title.
So Lesnar is a guy...
He was a big name in UFC for sure.
I didn't know he was in the UFC before.
He transitioned.
But there's another guy who transitioned who failed horribly, named CM Punk, who went from
WWE to the UFC and lost both of his fights handedly and had no business being in an
MMA ring.
I want to say what was interesting, and I think it was UFC.
Didn't Kimbo Slice get into the UFC, or do you even know?
I don't know if it was the UFC, or he might have went to like the Ultimate Fighter or
something like that.
Oh, Ultimate Fighter?
It's like a show?
Yeah, I do think he did Ultimate Fighter if I remember correctly.
Yeah, I'm not sure he fought in the UFC though.
He's already died, correct?
Yes.
How did he die?
Theroids?
Heart attack or something?
I'm not sure.
Yeah, I don't know.
Maybe he went to…
I just remember he was so popular on YouTube.
He was a YouTube sensation.
I remember watching his fights.
Nobody could fight this guy.
It's true, right?
It's boxing.
Okay, it looks like he did at least contend with some UFC people at some point.
And he signed a contract with Bellator in 2015.
And then he suddenly died in 2016.
So that's kind of crazy.
Someone's got a Trump video we can play.
I guess Trump wants to make an appearance on the show.
And so we might end up bringing him on here.
He's a big fan of fighting.
And I think that he's, I think he likes all of it, right?
He kind of likes WWE.
He likes UFC.
He's done a lot of UFC fights now, but he goes to mostly, uh, he shows up at UFC fights.
Let's see if we can hear the Donald give us an opinion here.
And he actually gets a big pop from the crowd.
Here's competitor, but you've never seen Donald Trump fight like this.
Oh, oh, look at these horrible punches.
You know what I want to see?
I want to see this and Joe Biden, like instead of debates, like this is how we should choose
our president because we all know it's scripted versus Biden.
I wasn't saying WB, the election, the election, WWE is more real than the election than the
election.
Yeah.
Shouldn't we get these guys to square off?
Are they all chicks is the real question.
The crowd went insane.
He says it was Trump's idea to take down McMahon.
He just wanted to play more of an active role in it.
And I think that part where he took down Vince and gave him a couple knuckles was just him
having a little fun with it.
Trump won the match.
Oh, he got to shave his head, didn't he?
And to the victor goes the clipper.
Anything for money, huh?
He got to shave Vince McMahon bald.
You ordered this pay-per-view, Pastor Shelley.
It's okay to admit it.
I guess Vince McMahon is a good marketer, right?
Oh, yeah.
And reeling from his first electoral loss.
What kind of people do we have running for office?
No.
Yeah.
What kind of people?
Really, really dishonest.
He's now calling for a do-over in Iowa, tweeting during Iowa…
Is he running for the next presidency?
Yeah.
I would love to see him fight Ted Cruz, too.
Ted Cruz is just a piece of dumb.
The thing with Trump is I think he used…
All right, you can kill this clip.
That was a good…
Because that wasn't the only time he appeared on WWE television.
He did multiple things there.
Didn't he fight?
I thought they were actually supposed to like specifically fight.
He's never had a match, but he's done different storylines on television and I think he used
some of that in his political campaigning, his ability to talk and things like that,
because his political campaigns sound a lot like, you know, what you would expect from
pro wrestling.
Talking some smack.
Yeah.
He said he was going to put Hillary in prison.
Unfortunately, he reneged on that.
He should have put her in a headlock first.
You're right.
That would have been making the debate, that would have made the debate a lot more watchable.
If you just started fighting her up.
Yeah.
After, you know, do a smack down at the end.
I agree with that.
I think again, you know, when it comes to these fights, obviously people like the carnal
fights, but why not the spiritual fights?
And I think that, you know, we had one, it kind of reminds me of this fight where Trump
just comes out of nowhere and just knocks Vince McMahon down is when we had the Kent
Hoeven and Pastor Anderson discussion.
I don't think that Kent Hoeven was ready to actually debate.
Yeah.
Well, again, I think that when it comes to that, he expected something friendly maybe,
or I don't know what it is he was expecting, even though we did warn him, "Hey, there's
going to be disagreements.
Be ready for a fight."
But he expected something different, I guess, and what he got was a knock down, drag out
brawl, and he wasn't prepared for that, or maybe he didn't want to engage, whatever
the case may be.
But that was, I think, a real spicy episode of our podcast, and it got a lot of people
talking.
Oh yeah.
Jornel, did you get a chance to listen to that one?
Yeah, yeah.
What did you think about it?
How that was?
How the innocent is stone cold, man.
Oh man.
And he cooked them.
Well, I didn't know what to expect, and again, people want to accuse me of setting up Dr.
Hoeven or something.
I just feel like he just didn't want to believe us.
We kept saying like, look, he doesn't really agree there's going to be some contention
here.
Yeah, there's going to be some contention.
And I don't even know that, you know, it's not fair.
It's not like I was thinking like, I really like Pastor Anderson's position, and I really
hate Dr. Hoeven's position, let's just try to like proxy fight each other or something
like that.
Because in honesty, I think that I was definitely in the middle, you know, on that particular
issue.
Oh, for sure.
There are accusations because I know you very well, and I know you didn't do that.
I know that you were down the middle, calling it down the middle on that.
And so it's just ridiculous.
People are going to talk, they're going to lie, they're going to do these things.
But the analogy I was giving earlier when it comes to how you mentioned not everyone
can fight in the same way, and I brought up that I personally don't have a lot of confidence
in my ability to debate, but I can still cheer on the men of God as they go to battle and
Jonel.
I don't know if you have this opinion as well, but I think for us as church members, when
we see our pastor getting into a big fight like he did with this red heifer debate against
the two Jews, but I'm cheering you on, you know what I mean?
So now Byron's just a Jew.
I just have designated him a Jew.
But I am.
I think he's a Judaizer.
Sure.
We can call him a Judaizer.
That might be more accurate, but I'm cheering you on in those fights, Pastor Shelley, from
the sidelines, I'm chanting your name, figuratively.
This is weird.
Let's go, Pastor Shelley.
Figuratively.
Did you have the foam thumb?
That's all I want to know.
The foam thumb.
Yeah.
All figuratively here.
Alright, I'm not literally doing this.
But I'm cheering you on, and the reality is, we might not, Jornel, be able to participate
in everything, but that is one thing we can do, is to support the man of God.
Yeah, these are important.
I'm definitely, I'm glad that you guys kind of got into this, like, starting to do debates
and stuff like that, because I have online, on Instagram and TikTok, works based salvation
preachers are rampant, they're all over the place, as far as just being false Christians.
Yeah.
So those, there's so many of them, and there's a lot, there's a few of them I would love
for you to debate.
Like in your opinion, is that the most important issue to you?
Like you kind of brought up to me what you think I should go and contend with, but like
in your opinion, what would you like to see the most?
I think for the world to be tuned in, I feel like for the world, I feel like Islam, because
I think a lot of people are, there's a lot of Muslims in the world.
There's a big population of Muslims.
Because if you think about it, we have Catholic and then the Muslims right after that, right?
Yeah, I think it's basically a billion Catholics and a billion Muslims, so they're pretty evenly
matched as far as total population is concerned.
But the thing is, Catholicism is very, they're not in the limelight at all.
No one's thinking about Catholics, you don't hear people talk about Catholicism often,
but Islam is like more of the popular ones, I feel like that'll bring in more of the casuals
and get a lot of the Muslim fan base or people that will practice Islam.
No one contends with Islam that's saved.
I do see sometimes Catholics engaging with them and some James White types and things
like that.
False Christians.
But it doesn't seem like people that are really bringing the right gospel are really trying
to win a lot of Muslims over, because I think that Zionism has almost convinced a lot of
Christians that they should just all be nuked and just destroyed, and they're so pro-Israel,
it's almost like they can't stand the idea of Muslims getting saved.
It's almost like they're Nineveh or something like that.
What do you think about an opinion like that?
Do you think that Christians have an extra special dislike towards Islam or that group
of unsaved people?
Of course.
Let's bomb them, and God will sort them out later.
That's their attitude.
Rather than, let's get them the gospel.
Let's see if we can get them saved.
Let's see if we can turn them away from that false satanic religion they find themselves
in right now.
And the reason why they hold that position, you mentioned it, Zionism, because they're
married to the state of Israel.
I just don't know how, you know, again, since they can't read, I don't know how many of
them want to debate, but the Qur'an literally is the dumbest book in the planet.
It is complete trash.
Terrible literature, yeah.
And of course, I would certainly contend with them.
I don't want to be jihaded, but at the same time, we might as well contend with that particular
religion and that ideology.
I think that there's a lot of nice Muslims out there and there's a lot of people that
are very sincere.
Honestly, when I go out soul winning and I run into Islamic people, they're very nice.
They're usually offering me water.
It's so funny.
These fake Christians are slamming the door and getting mad at me, and then Muslims are
offering me water and are actually nice, and it's kind of sad that Christians are so much
more hateful and more offended when you ask them if they're saved.
Christians.
Yeah, of course, then Islam or Muslims or something like that.
When you approach people about Christianity or the Bible, who seems to give you the most
negative reactions?
A lot of so-called Christians, like you said, a lot of them, they claim to be Christians
and they're upset that you're at their door.
If you're a Christian, why are you upset that I'm at your door right now?
I don't get it.
I don't even knock on any Muslim's door though.
I don't even recall.
Have you run into a lot of Muslims Ben?
I have run into a few, not a lot, a few.
They were always very friendly.
But I want to answer the question that you posed to Jornel about who've been the rudest
people.
Yeah.
Without a doubt.
Oh, I know who you're going to say.
Who do you think?
Black Hebrew Israelites.
That's what I was going to say.
Black Hebrew Israelites.
Yes.
These are some of the scummiest, nastiest, most psychopathic demons you will ever encounter
out-soul-winning.
They are deranged.
They are deviant.
They are grotesque.
They are evil.
Yes.
Second place.
Jews.
Well, I haven't encountered any Jews practically.
Really?
Yeah.
Very, very few.
I have one.
Liberal Christians.
I'm talking about the progressive.
I go to the United Methodist Church and fly a faggot flag.
Those style of fake Christians have this smug, arrogant, prideful look on their face when
you knock on their door and they approach you with this fake kindness and this fake
love when you know deep down inside they hate your guts.
Well, I want to ask another question though quickly because Brother Jornel kind of mentioned
that he thinks maybe Islam would be a good fight.
I kind of brought up Catholicism.
What is your opinion in this kind of idea of going out there and contending like what
would be the most exciting or something you'd really want to see from a contending perspective?
Jonathan Burris.
Oh, that's right.
Okay.
I forgot.
I think you should go.
Why?
Just a nobody.
It's because he just pisses me off.
He is irritating.
Because I can sense just watching his videos that this guy thinks he's so smart.
Okay.
I hear the Jonathan Burris.
Do you have anything else?
I would also like, I mean, I think somebody who's a hardcore work salvation, I would
love to see you wipe the floor with a debate on One Saved, Always Saved, a debate on salvation
by faith against somebody like, I don't know, I don't want to say young Don.
He's just so out there and crazy.
Do you remember?
I'm not sure that that would even be profitable.
But just somebody like that.
Remember the person I interviewed with, pastor Anderson, his name was Bryce?
Bryce and Gray.
The rapper.
That guy.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
He asked me to debate him and at this particular point I was like, I thought it was kind of
wrong.
I watched a sermon on debating and it kind of changed my mind after that.
But I remember I just kind of said no, but I wanted to.
But that guy, man.
He is the-
That's a good guy to go against.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Oh my.
He thinks he doesn't sin.
So annoying.
Oh my goodness.
He thinks he doesn't sin.
Just to expose these people's manifest folly.
I mean, that would just be great.
What about the chat?
Somebody said Nick Flentes in the chat.
What else?
Hesidor316 says, "Debate Brian Sands, who used to be KJV only."
Is he talking about Sam's?
Oh yeah.
He's talking about your old pastor.
Oh, this is my old pastor.
That would be a clash of two civilizations.
I would love to see that.
Ben, go ahead and get that set up, and I'll go for it.
I'll text him.
See if he responds to me.
I don't know that he is my biggest fan anymore, though.
He's like a deconstructionist of KJV only.
He used to be a KJV only Baptist pastor and now he's like modern versions or something
like that.
I think that would be a great point to bring out even though he's not necessarily super
popular.
I think that would be a good one.
What about the sodomite issue?
Is that a debate that's worth engaging in if a pastor believes maybe that we should
love them again?
I of course think it's really important, but at the same time, I think nobody wants
to talk about it and I think nobody wants to talk about it with me.
So it's probably one of those things.
I think because the Bible is really clear on that issue and if someone's willing to
actually talk about the text, they're going to look really dumb really fast.
So I think they just want to avoid it completely.
I don't think that they want to talk about it or bring it up.
They don't want none, in other words.
I think that they just know that their position's weak and they're not going to necessarily
contend with somebody.
It's not like just me even, I think just on that issue specifically, they know they're
going to look stupid so they don't want to do it.
Yeah, could be.
Well, I want to kind of get to an ending point here.
When's the next fight, Brother Jornel?
When are we looking?
What's the idea?
So we have some kind of expectation here.
I'm talking to somebody for June 8th, maybe, in Brazil.
Oh, really?
So this summer it could be.
Maybe.
Yeah, let's see.
I just started talking to him so hopefully that works out.
But anytime, hopefully in the middle of this year, I'm thinking about fighting.
Okay.
So how often would you have fights?
Like let's say you do one in the summer, how often would you schedule another one?
I'd do like three a year.
Three a year, okay.
Three, maybe four, but about three a year is good because those weight cuts are not
fun.
Dude, that sounds intense.
How early do you have to start working on that before?
At least one month.
A month, oh man.
About a month.
It's one meal a day.
I'll eat a meal a day and exercise before and after.
And the meal is small.
For like about a month.
He's making me sad already.
Yeah, I got to get the weight.
I don't think I could be a physical contender.
God bless the fact that I'm a Baptist, I can eat.
Although there is a spiritual cut down in the sense that I think you got to pram your
head full of scripture and think about it before you enter into these conversations
because you want to be sharp.
I don't know that I'm always the most sharp.
I think that this season of my life is like the worst for me to do debates because I have
such bad allergies that I'm always on Benadryl.
It just makes me so tired mentally.
Especially in Texas, Dallas, it's terrible allergies.
The allergies can be pretty rough here in the spring specifically.
If you could eliminate that, it really would be a paradise.
I just love this place so much.
That's kind of like my only issue is just the allergies.
Do you experience that?
No.
Bad.
Maybe it's just like a Muslim thing.
I do think that you're not giving yourself enough credit, which I understand, you know,
let another man praise thee and not thine own mouth.
I do think that you're sharp and I think that you have the ability to think on your feet
quickly and that's what lends itself well to debating.
I'm just saying I would prefer to do it when I'm not on drugs is all I'm trying to say.
Maybe the drugs help you.
I don't think so.
But I even listened back a little bit to our debate with the Red Heifer and I misspoke
a few times and it was just a little bit frustrating.
I didn't actually have a written out opening statement and I didn't expect to go first
either.
I honestly thought I was going to do something like Adam.
I thought they were going to kind of talk and I was going to be like, "I don't even
need to say anything.
Let's just go into it."
Because frankly speaking, it's just like, it's so anti-biblical, I didn't need to even
spend five minutes.
It's literally not in the Bible at all.
It's based on the Talmud.
I mean it is in the Bible.
No, I'm saying the idea that it's some special, mystical, fantastical sacrifice that's going
to bring in, that's going to heal people and bring in a third temple.
I'm just saying that...
That's from the Talmud.
If you're New Testament at all, it's just like, "Wow, come on."
Obviously Jesus was our sacrifice, we don't need animal sacrifices anymore, it doesn't
matter what animal sacrifice it was.
Some people say I should use bee bread for allergies.
I do actually do local honey.
Does that work?
I don't know.
It's hard to know because technically I think the science behind it is you have to do it
for a long, you have to do it for several weeks and it's supposed to slowly lessen
the symptoms.
By the time it goes away, allergies are over.
Like did it work or is it placebo or like I don't know.
I mean I do do the honey because even if it doesn't actually have that benefit, it actually
just helps the throat generally and like you feel a little bit better drinking like honey
water or something like that because I don't drink coffee.
I was just going to say if you load it up on caffeine it would overtake, it would supersede
your medicine.
I just don't think that caffeine works for me that much.
You got to have more than just one cup of coffee.
It seems.
Let's go fast.
What was that guy's viewpoint on, if he was a Christian, what was his viewpoint on why
they should be sacrificing red heifers?
Some people hold to what's called dual covenant theology, and it's this idea that the Old
Testament is still in effect, and the Jews are still in the Old Testament.
The Old Testament will never end, it's basically just always there.
The New Testament didn't replace it.
It's an alternate?
Yeah, it's like a sub-plan or something, just like an alternative plan.
Obviously, a lot of them would still say you need to get into the new plan, but you're
kind of grandfathered in, you can just keep going on the old plan as long as you need.
It's obviously a false doctrine, but the guy's filled with all kinds of inconsistencies.
He doesn't believe Jesus is God, so he denies John 1.
Pastor Mena's brought up passages in Galatians 3, and it was basically just reading the verse,
and then as soon as he's done reading the verse, he's just like, "That's wrong."
He's just denying clear scripture.
He denies who the synagogue of Satan is, and of course, these people would never believe
anything in the book of Hebrews or Galatians because it just rebukes their false doctrine
so clearly.
So, you know, his position is a lot more, in my opinion, unrespectable than someone
that's just not saved or like a Jew because they're not even claiming to believe in Jesus.
Just for the benefit of the audience, this is Byron Stinson that you're talking about.
Of course.
So, you know, I want to give you one last plug here.
Is there anything you want to plug, Brother Jordan while you're on the show?
You guys can follow me on TikTok, @aunolugo, A-U-N-O-L-U-G-O.
I've been inconsistent with making, you know, Christian videos up there, but I have a lot
of videos on there that you can check out and that might be of some value to Christians
who need footage to send people if they disagree with one saved always saved.
I feel like I've seen a lot of your videos and they're almost always related to salvation
and the gospel and you lay down a pretty hard smack down.
I mean I really like a lot of the videos I've seen.
You do a really good job of coming up with some clever new things to say so I hope that
you keep going on making some of those videos.
Yeah, it's just the topic, you know, how many ways can you say the same thing?
But it's good though.
The people in the comments section, they just really engage.
There's, I have like, usually I have a lot more comments than I have likes.
So if I have like a hundred likes, I'm gonna have like three hundred comments.
People are, if I check my phone right now, in the comments section, arguing, arguing,
arguing.
So it's a very hot topic.
But for me, it's kind of like, I'm just saying the same thing over and over and over.
Right.
Well, we're gonna be a broken record to some degree.
It's the everlasting gospel.
But I really appreciate you coming on the show, sharing with us, you know, some of your
life's journey, some of your fighting.
We really look forward to seeing you back in the octagon, physically and spiritually.
I really like those videos you're making.
Is there anything else that you wanted to plug or mention here before we kind of wrap
up, Ben?
I just want to invite the audience to subscribe to our podcast on Spotify or Apple Podcasts
or Google Podcasts and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts as well or just any of those
different platforms so that we can get your feedback.
Make sure you share this podcast with all your friends, with your family, the Rumble
link.
Get it out there on your Facebook, on your X, on whatever other social media platforms
are out there, and let's see if we can spread the word that way and circumvent the censorship.
But other than that, I don't really have anything else to say other than thanks for having me
here as the co-host of another show.
Yeah, I want to mention a couple things.
I want to plug a few things.
In May 25th, Sure Foundation Baptist Church is hosting a Chicago Soul Winning event,
and I'm actually going to be going out there and preaching the day before, it's the 24th.
May 24th is a Friday night.
I'm going to be out there preaching.
Pastor Thompson's also going to be preaching that evening, and then I know the following
Saturday, the 25th, there's going to be a big Soul Winning event.
A lot of people are traveling over there.
If you have questions, you should email Sure Foundation Baptist Church.
You can find their website.
You could just type it in, Sure Foundation Baptist Church.
I'm sure you could find their website, email them, ask them about the details of that.
I just really want to plug that specific event.
Additionally, you can join us on baptisbias.com/join.
You can join our email list.
Of course, the website is also up, baptisbias.com.
You can check us out.
You can check me out on Twitter @BandPastor.
I am ShadowBand, so unless you follow me and check my post daily, you probably won't see
anything.
But I am still trying to build a small audience over there.
Definitely check us out on Rumble.
We're going to have a lot of other shows.
We still have a few episodes coming up.
We have Pastor Mejia is going to be joining us next week, Tuesday nights, 8 p.m.
You want to check it live.
I'm excited to have Pastor Mejia on here.
It's going to be pretty explosive with you and him on the show, and so you never know
where it may go.
But honestly, you know, you've got to check out the Baptist Bias.
You've got to share.
One thing I would say for our audience would be helpful.
Take the snippets of the show that you liked, clip them out, and share them on your social
media.
Most of the show usually has some of our logos in there, and that's just a great way for
new people to find that content.
I, in fact, actually talked to a lot of people that randomly will say, "Hey, I found some
random video of you guys or a clip."
And so, you know, it definitely makes a difference, but that's pretty much going to do it for
us this evening.
Look, folks, everybody's got a perspective out there, but you need to get the Baptist
Bias.