Hey everybody, thanks for joining us on the Baptist bias. I'm your host pastor Shelly
We're here day three at the Fire Breathing Baptist Fellowship conference
I'm joined here with my co-host been the Baptist and
Fellow guest pastor Stephen Anderson. He's gonna be preaching this evening for us. How's it going brother Ben?
Great. It's great to be here. Really excited about the conference. It's been an awesome conference so far and
One thing I love so much about the fbbf is it really lives up to the name because you're getting the fire breathing preaching obviously
But there's so many events. There's so much going on
And so if you like a conference that has tons of things to do, this is it
I mean, after skipping a couple episodes,
everybody was thinking you were ex-New I.B. now,
so it's good to see.
Yeah, I was either fired or I quit, right?
So that's probably what some people were thinking,
but no, if that's what you were hoping for,
you're disappointed, because here I am, yeah.
Pastor Anderson, thanks for coming.
How's it going?
Yeah, it's awesome to be here. I was thinking the exact same thing.
It's definitely the Fire Breathing Baptist Fellowship
because there's just a lot of time to, oh, maybe I should turn this on.
There's a lot of time to just hang out with people and spend time talking, fellowshiping.
There's a lot of games and sports and activities.
So it's definitely the Fire Breathing Baptist Fellowship.
So I think I think it's great. I'm having a great time
I got up at 3 a.m. This morning just to make sure that I made the ice skating
And I barely made it like I just got to the airport ran in the car rushed over and
Got out on the ice man for was it worth it. It was awesome. It was definitely worth it
So that's only like what an hour before you usually get up
Well, I've been lately. I've been staying up late and and sleeping in late. I've just become a little bit of a night out
Everybody's your phases these night people have rubbed off on you apparently. Yeah, it's it's finally. I just like I just gave into it
You know
So I love going to bed early and getting up early, but like the rest of society doesn't agree with me
So
It's a challenge.
That's what happens.
I don't know if I love it or not, but I definitely am in that kind of same pattern of just kind
of staying up late.
Mostly because, you know, when the kids are finally asleep, it seems like I can kind of
get peace and quiet to kind of actually like think and accomplish things.
So usually I just, it helps me kind of do a lot of things.
Obviously, they've got up in the morning. It probably worked the same way, but it does so we we want to do a
Another controversial topic. We're not afraid of controversial topics here
We want to talk about the X new IFB and where are they now now really there's nothing off the table when it comes to this topic and
Really, there's there's almost like a decade or two to really, you know, go back from and draw from but I
just kind of want to you know
talk about this particular subject because, you know, if we're so bad, if we're just these horrible, awful people and finally when people leave, they have some relief and everything's great and roses and they've left the, quote, cult, you'd kind of assume that they would go out and do even better things or greater things or their lives would be more successful or they would say, oh, you know what, after
leaving, now I realize there's all these other preachers that are just so amazing. Listen to
these sermons. These sermons are so awesome. These are so great. But it seems like they just
stay obsessed with us even when they leave. It seems like they become a psycho ex-girlfriend,
which is a sermon I preached. What did you think about that analogy, brother Ben?
Well, I think it's apropos because you see this in relationships a lot of the time where one party just cannot get over the other and they're
Just stalking them on social media. They won't leave them alone. They're obsessed with them
And that's what's happening here, and I've actually never seen this phenomenon before I've been at this eight years in any other medium
Other than relationships where you have people who move on to something else supposedly on paper, but then they're watching everything you do
They're probably watching this stream right now. They'll be watching Pastor Anderson sermon. They're watching our conference. They look at every
every post we make, they'll get every move we make,
they are just completely deranged.
Well, and again, it's almost,
you kind of wonder some of these people have a shrine
with like hair and like dolls
and they're doing these weird things,
but then you see them actually having an entire board game
dedicated to the new IFB.
Like that's a serious level of commitment.
Not only to play a board game, but to make it's like someone made an actual board game
Does that kind of make you what is your thoughts about a board game with your face on it best?
Well, you know before I get into that I had you print out my sermon. I think I lost it
Does anybody know where it is because I don't know wait is that hang on it's right there. It's right there. Sorry
It's just in the corner
Never put the I just wanted to have it out because you know
I figure that I might get some ideas like during this broadcast
I might need to kind of jot some things down
You know, I like we're full of ideas. I like my sermons to be really fresh
but you know the board game thing I only found out about recently and
Somehow I missed that at the time and I'd heard somebody say something about it, but I thought I must have misunderstood
but it turned out it was real and it's real yeah it it it was it's pretty bizarre to put
that much effort into making something and especially if you're not even going to market it
Yeah, you're gonna if you're gonna make it then own it
I guess it was like the cracker barrel logo where like came out with it
It was a flop. So you just kind of put it away real like a city lost
It's like it didn't really pan out
But you know what you were saying a minute ago. Here's the thought that came into my mind
I'm thinking about all the people that jumped ship that quit our church that quit the new IFP movement
I wonder if any of them are
reading their Bible more
soul winning more, praying more, like doing more for God,
because I don't think so.
And I'm looking at the churches that have just bailed on us,
stabbed us, and here's the way I see it.
It's not even about supporting me or backing me up.
Really, it's just about backing up authority, backing up parents, backing up husbands.
It's really about biblical principle.
And whenever we make decisions, they should always be based upon principle.
And when the Bible talks about not being a respecter of persons,
I think that a lot of people misunderstand what that means because when you think about when the Bible
talks about not respecting persons, it's saying don't respect the persons of the rich or the powerful
or the people that can give you advantage. Don't be like, oh well, I'm going to rule in this guy's favor
because he can help me or because he's got money or whatever.
respecting Christians, respecting men of God, respecting our parents, you know, because some
people are like, well, I don't respect anybody because I'm not a respecter of persons. I mean,
that's just stupid, right? They don't understand what it means. What it's saying is like,
you're not going to be unjust on behalf of someone because they can give you advantage,
whether that be money, power, influence, whatever. Okay, so what you're saying is Jude too, right?
Excuse me having men's persons an aberration because of advantage. Yeah, I mean well, there's lots of there's lots of verses
That's one of them
But then there's also a lot of other verses where just you know
God's not a respecter person thou shalt not respect persons in judgment
so at the end of the day, you know, it's about doing what's right and
Siding with whoever is biblically right
Not based on our feelings or our emotions or our heartstrings.
No.
What is Biblically Right?
Who is Biblically Right?
And we take that side.
And here's the thing.
Is that a lot of people bailed out on us because they thought that we were bad for them.
They thought, oh, if I stay with Pastor Anderson, I'm going to lose people.
My church is going to shrink or, you know, people are going to do this to me or that to me or whatever.
And what's funny is that the people that stayed with me ended up thriving.
Churches or breaking records and whatever and then the church that bailed have gotten smaller and it's not like oh
They should have stayed with Pastor Anderson because then they would have done better
No, no, it's that we did better because we're on the Lord's side because the Bible's on our side
And what those people should have done is made a decision based on principle
and not, and just let the chips fall where they may, you know, instead of sitting there saying,
huh, I wonder which way the wind's blowing, I wonder who's winning because I just want to be on the
right side of history, I just want to get on the winning side. That is a wicked attitude to say,
oh, I'm going to bail on my friend because I don't think he's going to win. And then when it turned
out we did win, well, guess what?
Where does that leave them? On the losing side. But you know what? We're not, we're not right because we're winning. We're winning because we're right.
I agree with everything you're saying, but I also think that there is some room in the Bible for the idea of
forsaking somebody also being wrong. I mean, the Apostle Paul brings up Deimos specifically having forsaken him, having loved this present world.
You have John Mark kind of bailing on.
His companions there Paul and Barnabas and so I think that you know while while it's not about us
The gospel is not about us. You know Christianity is not about us. We are still vessels
That are that are used for Christianity to go forth and as long as we are being used
Going against us in a sense is going against the gospel and is going against Christ because of what we're producing the works that are being done
Jesus Christ is telling people like don't forbid him because no one that's doing you know like works
for me can say anything against me lightly or something you know they're like trying to
forbid somebody doing works in Jesus Christ's name it's like you know that should be something
that we should avoid like attacking going against forsaking or harming anybody that's
doing the work of God even though it's not about the individual it still is about the individual
and to me you know the thing that I think is important to think about the people that leave
They, they love our preaching when they're here and then as soon as they leave we're
so bad and awful or whatever.
But if their preaching was so bad, here would be my question.
Why don't they just share and show all the great preaching from somebody else then?
Yeah, like they all, they all, you know, either quit going to church altogether or they just
They're going to some, you know, good old IFB church where they're still soul-winning,
still serving God. Amen. I mean, that's the best-case scenario if you're going to leave the...
That's not really X and Y B to me.
Well, some of these people are definitely in the XNIFB category, okay?
They're still, you know, watching every sermon and obsessing, and they're bitter and slandering
and talking crap about us, but your point is a great point, though.
If you're going to this awesome old IFB church and the old IFB is so awesome, like why aren't
podcast, the soul-winning marathons, the events, the exploits of your new crowd.
You know, of anybody. Of anybody. Yeah. You know, I mean, again,
you've said something in the past, and I kind of try to think about a lot. You said this idea,
like, there's probably these people out there just maybe have a small church, no one knows them,
and they're just doing these great things for God. And to me, I'm like, well, wait a minute,
you were this small church at one point, preaching great sermons, doing great things for God,
everybody ended up realizing who you are.
And to me, it's like, if someone's out there
doing great things for the God
and preaching these epic sermons,
like I don't think you could hide that under a bushel.
And so to me, it's like, yeah, you can hate us
and not like us, but okay, but show us the alternative.
Show us the right way.
Show us the sermons that are going to be even better
because I don't think anybody in our crowd
dislikes hard preaching, dislikes fire preaching,
life-changing sermons. To me, if I heard a sermon from somebody I've never met before,
and it was an awesome sermon, I would like that. I would enjoy that. So it's like, I'm not over
here just like, oh, it has to come from the new IB to be great or something like that. It's just
like, show me the alternative. I'd be super excited to hear from
Anybody that's just preaching a great sermon like I love steak. I love brisket and it's like I love Texas brisket
I think it's fantastic
But if someone could actually bring me something that was better and they're like well
This is you know, Arizona brisket or this is California brisket whatever and it was better
I would just be like amen. Let's bring it on. It doesn't have to be from Texas, but I'm saying hey, Texas brisket's great
because I believe it is. You're losing me with this illustration. Ben, give me some give me some
I do like Texas brisket a lot. Yeah, give me an admission here. Is it Texas brisket legit?
I do love Texas brisket. I have to admit that. So if there's a conflict here between you two,
I'm going to have to take Pastor Shelly's side on that one. But I will say this,
what you're both describing is I think the major distinction between our side and their side,
meaning we're a fan yes there's there's things you like and you talk about them
whereas on the other side all they obsess about is who they hate and what
they hate all they could do is tear down they have an inability to build up
they have an inability to support something seemingly and I think that's
the big difference between our side and there's any look at us what are we
characterized by our love for Christ and our love for his people
And I don't think you see that on the other side as all because what are they rallied around hating you
Hating my pastor and and hating us
Yeah, it's better to be a fan than it is to be a foe or a hater
That's their identity, but at the end of the day like
This is a this is a verse that just kind of like hit me this week and I was thinking about it
It's in James too and and typically in James too. We're almost reading it defensively
rather than like using the text. We're trying to defend against salvation. I think there's something.
But like, this is the passage that just kind of hit me differently. It says,
Yeah, man, may say thou hast faith and I have works, show me thy faith without thy works,
and I will show thee my faith by my works. And this is what I was thinking about.
I'm like, oh, you hate the new IFB, and you act like you guys are better Christians or more faithful.
But it's like we're showing you our faith with our works.
We're bringing in new people into church, we're going soul winning, we're having souling marathons,
we're preaching these sermons.
Both of our churches have smashed people.
Every record this year, am I right?
I've broken every record this year.
Yeah.
Every way you could think.
We haven't broken every record, but we've broken several records already.
It's only August.
I mean, we've broken every record that we can up to this point.
And we're on track to basically just smash every single record.
But even if we didn't, here's the thing.
Show me your faith with your works.
If there's this amazing church
Then won't we see it through their works? Wouldn't we see like okay, they're having this epic preaching
They're having these epic soul-winning marathons. They're having revival. They're reaching all these people like I'm saying someone
That has great faith is not going to be hid under a bushel
Everybody heard about Moses and the children of Israel
It's Exodus out of out of Egypt because it was this great work that was being done and we see the great faith of Moses
We talk about the members of the Hall of Faith. They have these epic works everybody seeing it
Everybody knows what's going on. It's like show me the movement of people that are preaching these sermons challenging culture
challenging the world and
I'm gonna be on board with it
But it's like that's what we are trying to do. That's what we are doing and accomplishing and so when people are hating us
They're really just hating. I think the work of the Lord
But back to my original point though is still stands that like you know Esther chapter 1
Where Vashti just outright just rebels against her husband and just refuses to obey and then the king
He doesn't really know what to do
He doesn't really feel like he has a good recourse and he asks like seven different counselors
What do I do and they say look you can't just let this go
Because if you do you're sending a message to everyone in the entire kingdom
127 provinces from India to Ethiopia
All of these wives are going to despise their husbands in their hearts
and they're like, we cannot let this happen.
Now, obviously, the way that they remedied it is not necessarily biblical or righteous or correct.
But here's the thing, it's a lot easier to identify the problem than to come up with a good solution.
They did correctly identify the problem.
I mean, probably domestic discipline.
Hahahaha!
Wait, wrong episode.
My favorite topic.
Go ahead.
But anyway, but the point is that, you know, if people are going to sit there and say,
you know, oh, I side with the children, what are they basically saying?
They're basically saying, I side against authority.
I'm for rebellion.
I'm for being backslidden.
I'm for disobeying the word of God.
The Bible is not on their side.
Because here's the thing, I can't find this verse in the Bible.
But I can't find the verse that says honor thy father and mother I can't find anywhere where the Bible says
You know that oh if you curse your child you'll be put to death, but I can see where if you curse your parents you're put to death
I say, I mean, Noah's person is grandkid for crying out loud.
There's no law that says if a parent smites his child, he should be put to death.
But there is one that says if a child rises up and smites his parents, he is put to death.
And that's what Jesus quotes in the New Testament specifically.
So the Bible is not on their side.
And so my point is, it's not about the personality in the sense that we could be anybody.
We represent something, and here's the thing, sometimes difficult controversies come along,
and, you know, I'm not even saying that this is difficult, but I'm saying, if people see it as difficult or whatever,
at the end of the day, you know, what does the Bible say?
If you've ever been to court, and I don't know, have you ever been to court?
Uh, I've heard about it.
Here's what I've noticed about being in court.
is that a lot of times lawyers, witnesses, defendants, plaintiffs, they'll sometimes
try to hit the judge with something emotional or just try to just explain their point of view
or whatever. And at the end of the day, a good judge is just like, cut the crap. What does the law say?
And those, they don't care about people's feelings, they don't care about emotions, they don't care about like, oh, you're nice, and he's mean.
Well, I'm just gonna side with the nice person. They're just like, nope, this is what the law says, this is what the statute says.
And a lot of times they'll just say, oh, this is hearsay.
This isn't, you know, this isn't even admissible stuff.
And so they cut straight to the chase, and here's the thing.
We as leaders, and even just every human being in a sense,
needs to be able to kind of cut through the fluff of this world
and just get to, okay, but what does the Bible say?
what are the facts, what are we talking about, you know?
And I'm gonna preach on some of this in my sermon tonight
because, you know, it's just, it's hilarious
how there's this big controversy
about my marriage or something,
when in reality, I actually have a great marriage.
And my wife and I get along great and I would venture to guess that our marriage is probably better than most people's marriage and like I was I was sitting on the airplane today and there was a couple right in front of me on the airplane and I was just kind of impressed by the fact that this was a married couple
enjoying each other's company, they're being physically affectionate with each other,
having a good time.
You can just tell that they just really liked each other and they've been married for a really long time.
And I was thinking to myself, you know, you don't necessarily really see that a lot.
People have been married for a long time, really loving each other, having a good time, really showing their affection.
You don't really see that every day.
you know a lot of times people have been married a long time or a little cold and whatever you know
and I was just thinking to myself wow this is really beautiful this is really great
but then I was thinking to myself you know I was just on vacation with my wife a couple weeks ago
and this is how we were you know I feel like we were having fun we're getting along great
we have a great relationship but there's just this fiction
That somehow there's something wrong with my marriage or that my wife is rebellious or something
It's not true. You know and sometimes you see this coming from
One guy in particular
I'm thinking of who like got divorced a couple of months after calling you out and saying
That your marriage is bad based on lies. It's just amazing who this is coming from is my point
Where this criticism is coming from people who themselves oftentimes
have totally screwed up marriages and then they want to attack the man of God
for his marriage when they have absolutely no idea what it's actually like
because it's your private life
and one other thing too that I wanted to mention is this
I thought that this movement
was based on
or was predicated on we're going to preach the truth no matter what we saw
with the post-trib
Preaching that no matter what the opposition told us you think about the sodomite issue you think about replacement theology
But then all of a sudden when it comes to issues of the family and authority
Now, it's time to compromise and it causes this big problem.
It seems like, I guess, when certain loudmouth women get involved, that's when the temptation
becomes even greater to back off.
I think there's a big role to play.
These women play a big role, is all I'm saying.
These loudmouth women, some of them wives, play a big role in the compromise that you
see going on.
Yeah, and the other thing is that you know the Bible says judge not that you be not judged for with what judgment you judge
You shall be judged and I'm thinking to myself
Wow
You're gonna get up as a pastor with a bunch of little kids in your family and get up and come down on somebody like a ton of bricks
For having issues with adult children who've already left house now. You're gonna be held by that standard for the rest of your life
So now yeah, because it's like if you think about it
That's a scary place to be because it's like oh now if any of your kids as
Adults when they're totally out of your control and you have no power over what they do because they're adults making their own decisions
Now you're gonna be held responsible for everything they do as adults because you're holding someone else responsible for everything
that their adult children do after they're out of the home and gone.
You know, that's really setting yourself up for and also not only that,
but, you know, back to the Esther one story.
You're sending a message to every woman and teenager.
And because even though my wife and I are on the same page,
get along and have an awesome relationship, you know, the narrative is
supposedly that my wife is just abused, even though she
will tell you, no, I've never been abused, I love my husband,
everything's great. You know, that's the narrative though. And
so now you're basically just weaponizing all kinds of
teenagers.
and rebellious wives and just whoever by setting this precedent of oh well as long as you're right
quote unquote or as long as you're you know being treated mean supposedly we're all gonna back you
up and side with you and if your parents you know spank you as a teenager they're bad and they're
the problem and all this stuff you know it's just it's a horrible precedent it sends a horrible
uh, taking a gamble here because if they think that they're just guaranteed an outcome with that
average, because, you know, if you look at the Bible, you got all kinds of people's children that
didn't pan out or even that did pan out and then later as adults. There's virtually no good examples
if, if you have their doctrine. Like you, you'd almost have to believe everybody in the Bible is
just a bad parent, virtually speaking, which is kind of just an insane idea because
If that's true, then why even putting the effort in? Why putting the energy in? And to me,
I think a lot of people are discouraged about being parents, because maybe they have the wrong viewpoint,
or they have the wrong idea, they think like that everything's guaranteed,
or maybe they kind of beat themselves up for every little minor mistake.
And to me, you know, obviously God commands us to be fruitful, multiply,
The Bible says happy is the man that had this quiver full of them
I think that children are a blessing and I think that if you do what the Bible says
You're gonna have the best results, but nothing is guaranteed. There'll always be exceptions
But at the same time, you know, I kind of preached a whole sermon about it
I think that obviously by doing nothing you're almost guaranteeing their failure
By doing all the things right, you're giving them a high likelihood, a high chance of success.
And I heard those sermons, and I think that they were really good sermons,
and I think that that was a really insightful point that you made.
And it's sort of like life, you know?
Obviously, we're not into Greek philosophy, but one thing that is common in Greek philosophy
is the idea that like, you know, everybody in life is going to have a mix of good and
bad in their life.
And obviously, that's a biblical concept too, you know, that the good day and the bad day,
the Lord has set the one against the other.
And so, if you read ancient Greek literature, they kind of say, hey, if your life is a mix
of good and bad, then you should be real happy because that's the best you can hope for because
you know but nobody's life is all good right and that's true and and and so
obviously you can't just have this pie in the sky
attitude that everything's going to be great everything's going to be good
unfortunately every area of life kind of tends to be a mixed bag
The good day, the evil day, you're gonna have, you know, great times with your kids,
you're gonna have problems with your kids, you're gonna have great times in marriage,
you're gonna have problems in marriage. But I believe that this episode was called
XNIFB, Where Are They Now? Yeah, I feel like we've ventured a little away from that, but
can we bring up some characters or something? Yeah, I want to bring up the examples,
because, you know, that was a good preface, though. Yeah. Let's talk about
Some of the pastors, let's start with the pastors that have broken with us over the years and look,
obviously, nobody's forcing anybody to be our friend, but these are people who attached themselves
to us, wanted to be our friends. They're the ones who reached out and started the relationship
and wanted to be our friend and wanted to work with us. And then they just do this like dramatic
The first group I want to talk about is Joe Major, Manly Perry, and Michael Johnson.
So these people broke fellowship with us because they were horrified by the fact that
I had a Calvinist friend in my personal life.
Okay, like, this guy's not preaching for me.
I'm not preaching for him.
Like, we know that we don't agree on a lot of doctrine
and everything.
He's a reformed Baptist.
I'm an independent Baptist.
He's just my Greek buddy because we're studying Greek together.
It's kind of hard to find people that want to sit around
and read ancient Greek with you in Phoenix, Arizona.
So, you know, this guy and I became friends.
And then I made a documentary.
About the whole going back to the Greek and promoting the King James and the received text and and I included this guy in the
Documentary because we were basically showing hey
It's not just independent Baptist that believe this it's even the reform Baptist
And so we're trying to like draw a big net of just and it worked tons of reform
Baptists like came over to our side on this as a result even press peterians, but here's what's funny
You know Manly Perry said
I don't want to rub shoulders with someone who rub shoulders with a Calvinist.
So they were basically practicing a secondary separation, saying like, well...
I have to separate from Pastor Anderson because Pastor Anderson is hanging out with these
reform guys or whatever.
And I rip face against Calvinism and they know that and, you know, but, but, but here's
what-
But is that real?
It's not real.
This guy just wants to separate.
But I want to point out that-
I think it's garbage.
Of course it's garbage.
That's what I'm about to say, is that these same guys, where are they now is the title
of the episode.
I'll tell you where they are now.
For a summer camp, they're preaching with Ken Hoven, they're praising Ken Hoven.
I mean, you think Ken Hoven is separated from Calvinist?
Ken Hoven's not separated from anybody.
Ken Hoven's with Pentecostals, super ecumenical, every denomination, Pentecostals.
And he'll say this, well, I'll preach, I'll preach right.
He'll preach against their false doctrines, but he will hang out with anybody.
That is a fact.
He will go anywhere he'll preach, and he said that repeatedly.
Okay, so imagine the irony of saying, well, I got to break fellowship with Pastor Anderson,
because he has a Calvinist friend. When Kent Hovind has like every kind of heretic friend
that you can imagine, every heresy, even the heresy that Christians can go burn in hell for
a thousand years if they don't live right by the cult leader Joey Faust. It's like a Baptist
purgatory, except worse, because it's actually the lake of fire and it goes on for a thousand years.
That's worse than freaking purgatory.
And so, so it just shows the hypocrisy of weird church at his camp. That's not even like a legit church
I mean like how is that good and then and then here's what's funny, and then you got Matt Powell
You know calling me out. Oh because of my family issues supposedly, right?
And then he goes and moves he lived in Hovins compound and lives on Ken Hovins compounds for years Kent Hovins who is on his
I he's either he's the I know he's finished with the word no he's done with four for okay
So he's either he's either between concubines or he's on concubine number five
You know, it's a there's an nifb parody song about it called Kent's concubine quest where he's he's looking for
I'm trying to collect them all yeah
So so the point is like imagine the irony of saying oh Pastor Anderson needs to get his house in order
That's why I'm over at Ken Opens place
He's always fifth wife in the last ten years. Let's make something clear
It's not like he went there and then Ken Hoven kind of jumped ship
He was already on wife number three or four when he moved over there Ken Hoven had jumped the shark
Long before he moved over there and so it's just the irony is insane palpable
Yeah, it's just it's just lies. You know what I mean like oh we have to break fellas
Yeah, because it's like the reason that people it's sort of like you're a pastor. I'm a pastor, you know this
The reason that people saying they're leaving the church is rarely why they're actually leaving.
It's almost never. I would almost I would almost venture that it's never but I would say just
almost just because maybe there's occasionally people are just moving for a job or something
and it's real but but like for the most part whatever they say is an excuse it's not real
it's not legitimate.
Obviously, mainly Perry specifically, I think, was just trying to draw away his church away
from you.
He's envious of you.
He wants full control over his members.
That's why we went into a YouTube battle and he just nuked his entire channel because
I think he's afraid of people actually hearing his nonsense being criticized by someone that's
willing to criticize it.
And you know...
He prayed in the comments, too.
Don't forget that.
Well, yeah.
That was crazy, but like Adam Fannin seems like just shortly kind of after this
He also did kind of the same thing like he made this video like why I'm leaving the new IFB
Even though like the day before he had uploaded the video saying people that hate us call us a cult or something called the new
I be a cult and then the next day. He's like calling it a cult. I believe you know I feel like pointing that out or something
Like that and again now what's funny is mainly Perry hated
Adam fan and preach against him. Now they're buddies. Now we got to get them. We got to get to more examples because
We can fast forward because otherwise well, you know, we're gonna run out of time
We yeah, we could get bogged down on just one example for too long because there's just so you know
But again, just like we said like church members rarely leave for the reason that they said
Pastors who break fellowship with us. It's not usually why they said they had some other problem
Yeah, they had some other issue some other problem, you know, so let's talk about Jared Pozarski
Did he, did he like officially leave?
I guess he made his public statement against me.
He was, he was literally, I think he was the first pastor
to put out a public statement.
To come out against me and make a public statement.
Like he was Johnny on the spot, and I'll tell you why.
Because I called out his geocentricity bull crap.
Yeah.
1500s science, like literally debunked.
400 years ago, okay, and I had canceled him. He was supposed to preach at my church
As soon as I found out he believed geocentricity
I canceled him because I'm like I can't bring people like this to preach for I respect my people too much
So you were at a conference right and then you were hanging out together and that's where the conversation came up
And it actually turned into a bit of an argument, right?
there were four of us pastors at the table and it became a really heated and it was an argument
it was a heated argument that lasted for like over 20 minutes so to claim he doesn't believe
that is absurd if he's sitting there arguing for it I heard fourth hand that that conversation
yeah that's my point that's what I'm bringing up but there were also like 15 people around like
overhearing it like a bunch of my kids overheard a bunch of people overheard it and so and I I put
We're basically...
They said, oh, he doesn't actually believe that.
They're like, oh, he doesn't believe that.
You know, I heard first hand, even though it was third hand.
But the bottom line is that he does believe that, which is why I put out a challenge for
him to put out just a single sentence or a single video, just put out any way to just
state that he believes that the Earth is spinning and that geocentricity is false.
And yet, he can't do that because I was telling the truth.
And everybody at that table knows I'm telling the truth.
I don't remember the exact timing, but it seems like Pastor Joe Jones and Pastor David Bursons also kind of made public statements almost about the same time.
Yeah, they were maybe a week later or something.
Or, or, or, and Jason Robinson.
Yeah, and I mean, Joe, Joe Jones, wow.
Okay.
Well, he didn't just make a statement.
Based on a faulty interpretation of 1st Peter 2 that you can't rule by 5 or excuse me 1st Peter 5. Thank you
You know, you don't rule by constraint
Yeah, just totally made up. I put out another challenge for anyone to either find any Bible teacher who believes that
Or even, even if Jared Pizarski even believes that anymore, now that it's been pointed out to him.
I just wanted one person to defend that view that he based an entire series on.
So again, what you'll find a common denominator with a lot of these guys,
these guys that rage leave are mo- you know, they attach themselves to us and then leave,
they end up preaching heresy. Or stupid doctrine.
Why don't they preach better?
Okay, because almost all of them have preached something super weird in the last 12 months like really how does that?
So are they hiding this and then they feel like as soon as they cut fellowship they can unclog or how does it work?
I thought you guys say are they high?
They could be hiding hiding. They could be high. They could be high. I don't know. But here's the thing
It's crazy that you know, you got all that bad teaching coming out of that guy
Then you have Joe Jones, right? Joe Jones who just absolutely
Went insane as soon as he left the movement
Just absolutely said to where he's literally holding up a picture of a woman in short shorts
Saying to his church, this is modest apparel
And this is a guy in full deconstruction mode, and this is a guy who's trained and sent out
by Pastor Roger Jimenez, who's probably like the strictest, most straight lays, like super into rules
and stuff. And then he's just getting up and holding up a woman with shirts saying,
and it's like you said, he's in full deconstructive, recovering fundamentalist, like,
Yeah, exactly.
He's all the way off the deep end.
I'm not, I don't think there's any doctrine that's off the table for him to change on now.
King James only, reprobate doctrine, all this stuff.
I mean, everything's, everything's on the table, I think.
Yeah, I mean, that's a, it's a wild ride with him.
We don't know where it's going.
I mean, again, no one got as wild as Tyler Doca and I'm not saying he's
going to get that.
Wow.
I mean, he's pretty much as wild as you could get.
He was never really in the movement though.
I mean, no one, no one accepted his ordination.
I don't think because he, he, I, he reached out to me and I said, Hey.
I said, I love you're making a documentary with him. Yeah, but I said you're right. That is true
I said do him. I said hey, you're technically not scripturally qualified. I was trying to be nice
So I'm just like hey, you know
Once you're qualified, then you know
Maybe we can work together, but you know, I just said I can't recommend your church because you're not scriptually called
But I was real nice about it and whatever. So the only person who really embraced him
I think was Tommy Merchant. I think the rest of us realized like hey, this guy isn't qualified
We we can't really like throw our support. Well, he likes unqualified people
I mean he ordained a guy that was like a Pentecostal pastor
And when he asked him, is there anything weird that he believed before he ordained you?
I did not believe in his son.
No, no, no, we need Ben to do it.
Ben.
Oh, yeah, he's like,
I believe in the flat earth, but not the stupid one.
The one where the sun is small, and it goes around like this.
Oh, man. But obviously, you know, it would be nice if McMurtry could actually make a
good documentary. You know, he has one with Tyler Doka, the Antichrist, literally. Then
he's making this city loss, then Golgotha. Like, can this guy even make a good documentary?
Is that even possible?
But he seems to be a ringleader for a lot of these people, you know, encouraging them to kind of leave, jump ship.
But it seems like they're never actually successful. It's not actually helping them, helping their church, better sermons, better soul winning, better anything, really.
I mean if you're so bad and you're so toxic and you're dragging people down
You know you would think once they lift they let go of that burden of pastor Anderson apparently like wouldn't they're just their ship
Start to sail here's the thing and back back to my original point from the very beginning of the broadcast is that you know you guys
sided with me
Because it was the right thing to do
Not because you thought like that I was necessarily gonna win or that it was gonna be good for you
You know, I think that I think that you and Pastor Mejia and Pastor Thompson Pastor Russell
You know, you guys sided with me ultimately because it was the right thing to do and
And I think that and you know, I remember Pastor Mejia even telling me and saying, you know, hey
You know, I'm probably gonna lose some people and whatever but he said, you know
I'm supporting you because it's the right thing to do and and that's the way we should think just do what's right
You just do right and let the chips fall where they may but here's what's funny is that like if I'm so toxic
Then why are all the churches in the movement setting attendance records?
You know, if I'm just so toxic, you know, and and yeah, it's good
And and the thing is that you know like Pastor Jimenez let's bring up Pastor Jimenez wait
I before I get there
I want to get there because here's the thing we're bringing up excuses right yeah Zarnski said like I'm leaving cuz I'm taking a
Stand for women cuz women
It's like Pastor Burson says,
"'Cause first hand, second hand,
I heard this weird thing," or whatever.
Jason Robinson, I can't remember exactly what he had said,
but he cried a lot during the Miriam video.
Miriam made him cry.
He's never cried harder in his life.
Obviously, McMurtry says, like,
oh, man, I left, because we thought like it was, you know,
harmful to families.
It was like, no, you kind of got kicked out or whatever.
But it's like, here's the thing.
Of all these people, they kind of did give an excuse.
I feel like, or at least said why.
I want to ask this question. Why did Pastor Aminus leave the new IFB?
I don't know.
Doesn't everybody have a different answer to that stinking question?
Yeah, because here's the thing. When we talk about these other people,
we're talking about like the stated reason versus the real reason.
Well, I'm just saying, with Pastry Menace, there is no stated reason.
That's why I have no idea how to answer the question.
Everybody has a different viewpoint.
And I mean, people ask me this all the time.
Well, I gave you like 10 different possibilities.
They're like, hey, is this why it happened, or this is why I think it's happening.
You keep telling me no, that's not it.
And I always try to say like, well, you know, there's no reason to speculate,
because the reason why you don't know is because it just hasn't been said.
And I don't know. There's no secret knowledge.
No one knows.
I'm not over here like, I know exactly what happened.
Well, every time I think I figure it out, you're like, no, that's not it.
Well, I've tried I've gave him like five possibilities. Oh my god, I think it's definitely this yeah, he's like no
He did come in again. The only thing is just kind of loosely
It's just you can't be friends with pastor Anderson, which is like all the way back to Manly Perry
Yeah, cuz yeah, I don't know a lot of people realize no because that here's the thing in order for me to know
There'd have to be a reason
Or at least stated there is no reason. This is there. This is the reason
That's the reason it's just
Who he thought was winning at the time. I mean honestly between me and pastor Anderson
There was multiple times throughout you know kind of this
Controversy the last year where it's like I kind of thought like oh, he's kind of done with us and
Pastor Anderson is actually kind of positive. He was more like no, he's gonna come our way
Yeah, he's gonna be our friend and I was I was kind of like skeptical
I thought like maybe not but then when the Joe Jones thing happened and then he actually preached kind of against him
I actually agreed with that. I started thinking like, no, I think he is going to come on our side.
Well, I've been super positive about Pastor Jimenez all along, like for the last year or whatever.
Absolutely.
Until he finally got up and just said, I will never change my mind. I will never go back on this.
That was when I got the message loud and clear. Okay.
I still didn't believe it.
But here's the thing. You know, obviously, Pastor Jimenez,
and I don't know if a lot of people realize that he didn't just break fellowship with me.
He broke fellowship with all of us.
he will not preach for any of us, or have any of us preach for him.
And I'm talking Pastor Thompson, Pastor Shelley, Pastor Russ, anybody.
That's crazy.
Because of secondary separation, apparently.
And here's the funny thing about that, though.
You know, so he basically, apparently, because he doesn't want to be associated with, you know, this scandal or whatever.
You know, my family drama.
Then he goes and runs into the arms of
Treber who's got real drama. I mean we're talking a guy who has covered up horrible
sexual abuse and all kinds of horrible things going on and he goes and he's
taking pictures with you know he's having his kids sit on Treber's lap or
whatever for a photo opportunity. He specifically said negative things about
Treber himself like whether whether we don't like him or other people don't
like him like he specifically said negative things about Treber. So I get
but but here's what I want I guess I guess now that Pastor Jimenez though has
broken fellowship with all of his pastor friends.
Then I'm sure that his church is doing better than ever and I'm sure that it's just growing and booming and thriving now that he now
That we now that he threw Jonah
Overboard, you know and the storm has ceased. Yeah, but anyway, you know
Obviously we could go on and on about any of these situations, but I think that everybody's heart was broken a little bit because red hot
Was no longer a thing because there's just so many people love red hot. It's just another conference all the conferences
Yeah, but I think I think it was special. I loved red hot. I don't think it was special. I like all the conferences
I'm not saying that the other conferences weren't great. I'm just saying that it's not to diss the others
I'm just simply saying that red hot was never even went for the whole thing. I would just go preach and leave
I really liked it. I really like I like the Verity and Pastor Menace
And so it was disappointing to me that it wasn't gonna happen. Some people viewed it as like the Super Bowl of the new
I have yeah, I mean, but here's the Pastry Menace was my best friend for like 23 years
But to me, I just I'm not saying I obviously I loved the church and and you know
And and I loved getting together with him and spending time with him and his family
But what I'm saying is
I never felt like that I always felt like that conference was a little bit overrated
It wasn't a bad conference
But I just feel like every conference in this movement is equally good like I feel like I go to the King James conference up in
Portland, it's as good and I'm not just saying that it just is that was a really I think the missions
I think the missions conference is as good
Fire breathing Baptist fellowship is as good. I mean I enjoyed going to those camping trips out in Georgia like
Honestly, I probably had more fun at those camping trips in Georgia than at the Red Hot
Preaching Conference.
And again, I liked the Red Hot Preaching Conference.
I just never understood the obsession or fascination with it, because the whole year
I'd be preaching across the country, and everybody's just talking about the Red Hot
Preaching, like six, seven, eight months, you going to Red Hot, you going to be Red Hot.
Everybody talked about it.
people just really I don't know if it's just the name branding is it the branding or is it just
the marketing maybe people of California yeah I think it was well I think it was well organized
pastor minutes is obviously a professional a lot of those ways it was a lot of fun you preach some
really great sermons in the early years that kind of gave it a lot of nostalgia it had a lot of
momentum and it was doing great I mean obviously COVID put a damper on everything but in general
it kind of showed the strength of the new IFB in some ways, I think, and so it's
kind of a showcase of the new IFB and some of its preaching. And to me, you know, I
think it's important that conferences like this and others continue the
King James Bible or the missions conference or other because we have a
lot of people that want to come out, want to get, you know, zealous, fired up,
for preaching, soul winning,
and just being around other like-minded people.
You said fellowship, that's like so much fun
to be around like-minded people.
I just feel like every conference does that.
You know, I feel like Pastor Thompson's conferences do that.
I feel like all the conferences have done that.
That's why I didn't understand like the fascination with that particular conference.
That's all I'm saying.
It was a great conference.
National sword of the Lord.
It was a great conference, but so were all the other conferences.
To me, it was just another conference, you know.
I'm just saying that that was obviously disappointing.
But while we're kind of doing a who's who of where are they now?
You probably weren't going to bring this one up, but I will.
You know, here we go. We got to bring up the best one of all my my personal favorite
Know what this is going. Okay, Salvador
I mean, I mean
The guy was handed like I I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I gotta go off on this for a second
That's okay. Listen starting a church from scratch is so hard. I've done it other people have done it very hard
It's really hard. Okay. Now. Here's the thing getting from zero. It's you know what I'd liken it to it's like pushing a car
Pushing a car that's already rolling isn't that hard
But getting a car from a dead stop getting it moving. It's very that's the really hard part
Okay, and so here's the thing when you have a church and he was handed church with about, you know
40 some active members in it
Attendances around higher. Yeah, okay, but whatever roughly attendance is in the 30s or whatever
And it's like 30 grand in the bank, but not only that you got social media accounts with the thousand followers each
You got the building, you got the sign, you got the branding, you got the name recognition,
you got the history, you got a core of 30-some, 40-some people that are real faithful.
Supporting churches.
Yeah.
Whatever.
The network, everything.
Okay.
And he ran it into the ground to he literally ran it on to zero members
Okay, and then what's funny is that the enemies were lamenting like this is a sad day the death of a soul-winning church
But here's what's funny all those same people
are over at Springcrest anyway.
So like, so what's funny is like,
I preached at Pure Words when Salvador was at the helm.
It was right before he got ordained,
but he'd already been running it into the ground
for a little while.
So he was at the helm when I went there,
and I don't remember the exact number,
but it was a low attendance when I preached.
Maybe like 30 people showed up or something.
It was like 35.
Yeah, it was like 35.
Well, here's the thing.
I just preached in Houston a week ago.
And there was like, I don't know the exact number, but I feel like it was at least like more than double.
Did you ever get a number on that?
I think it was like 65 to 70. I talked to James Perry and he said about 65 to 70 people.
There were like twice as many people when I preached there.
So it's funny like, how is that the death of a soul-winning church when you have one guy,
literally every member has quit and it's just him by himself and then he just says, I'm closing down.
Of course we celebrated because we're like well good riddance. This guy has no one following him
And and then but the coup de grace was when he said I still would like to pastor someday
And I'm thinking I said you will never get a better opportunity than this because starting with 30 people is way
Easier than starting with zero. I started with zero. Okay. It took me like a year to get to the point where I was averaging 10
It took me two years to average 20, three years of like pushing myself, blood, sweat, tears, working hard.
After three years of hard work, averaging 30, certainly didn't have 30,000 in the bank, you know, branding, and everything, you know.
It took time to get all that, took years of hard work to do that, okay.
And here's the thing, yeah, you don't have to start a church, you can take over an existing church.
But here's the thing about that, is typically whenever you take over an existing church,
It's because there's a problem.
If they need a pastor, it's because there's a problem.
So nine times out of ten, if you take over an existing church,
there's going to be some horrible scandal.
You don't know anything about that.
What's that like?
Yeah.
You're taking over a church that had a horrible scandal,
or they have like horrible financial problems.
Or they have a lot of deferred maintenance spiritually. Yeah, or they'll they'll they'll they'll just be like
Hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt credit cards or what you know all these like upside-down
behind on bills like any time you take over a church
If they were a healthy church, they'd probably already have a pastor,
and then they'd probably already have another guy who's already being, like,
groomed for the position of being the next pastor and whatever.
Churches that need a pastor are usually struggling in some way, shape, or form.
It's going to be hard, okay?
This was a unique situation, because you weren't passing off the church because there was a problem,
it was just that you're pastoring two churches.
So you just needed to pass one of them off. You're pastoring two churches, so you handed them the keys to a healthy church.
You know?
It's like, you're never gonna get a better game than that.
It's a pretty ideal situation.
Obviously you could always have more people,
but at the end of the day,
Springcrest was actually running like 15, 18 people
for their services at this time.
He's running 30 or whatever on a Sunday morning
or something like that.
Now Springcrest has double the attendance
at a Pastor Anderson game.
Sure, but I'm just like, why, it's not like.
Uh, pure words is some, this deficient church, when there's plenty of churches that are even a little bit worse situation or whatever prior to
Would you rather take over a pure words or come in and clean up some horrible financial mess, some horrible scandal, adultery, or just what?
I mean, look, I, there
Well, wait a minute. He told me that I left to come here for wealth and fame.
So, you know, obviously steadfast had a lot of wealth and fame.
Like this one pastor took over a church.
And the reason that the church needed a pastor was because the pastor's wife had been, like, producing pornography.
I mean, like, can you... I mean, that's horrific.
What a great way to end the bar.
I'm saying, like, I'm saying, that's like the worst situation you can imagine.
And yet this man of God came in, took over the church, that's just horrific scandal, and turned it into a soul-winning powerhouse.
Well...
He preached good sermons.
took him soul-winning, and he then built up the church, it thrived, it did great works.
It did great works.
My point is that he's never going to get a sweeter gig than that.
If you can't make that work, you can't make anything work.
Obviously Jack Scott kind of comes in on the heels of Hiles and so you can always have cockroaches coming in and
Squandering a work and and really diminishing the work well, that's what happened
and so, you know, that's
It's reality. That's I think what's solemn song and Solomon is
Mealamenting in Ecclesiastes that you can sometimes build these great empires and wealth and someone squanders it. Well
XNFB where are they now? They're at home in their mom's basement watching online. They are
Fighting their tongue. They're gnashing their teeth. They're playing board games, and they're very sad
But we're having a lot of fun here. We're new IP fans. We've got the shirts. We've got an awesome welcome crew here
We've got a cool backdrop. We're taking pictures. We're about to hear some great preaching and hey, you know what?
We have the Baptist bias. Thanks for joining us
Thank you, appreciate the opportunity.
Brother Ben, thanks for coming on, making it clear that you don't hate us anymore.
Yeah, I repented.
Thanks, patrons, for being here.
Everybody's got a perspective, guys, but you know what?
You need to get the Baptist bias.