Thanks so much for joining us for another episode of The Baptist Bias.
We're going to be talking about Christian nationalism, and of course, we're going to
get started, first of all, with the Benelog.
I'm sad to announce this evening that our democracy is near almost complete extinction.
There's a small group of insignificant terrorists who wish to throttle our freedoms and bring
us back to the Stone Age with laws and rules that have never been heard of before.
If you think the Handmaid's Tale is a nightmare, well this cult of fascists will make you wish
you lived in 1930s Germany.
I can't even believe what I'm about to tell you and the reason why is because it's 2023
and this ideology has no place in a modern society.
Nevertheless, there's been a sharp rise in the most horrific worldview that has ever
existed.
Of course, I'm talking about Christian nationalism, the horror, I know.
In fact, these extremists claim that our nation, the United States of America, was founded
by Christians who used the Bible as their basis for laws.
What revisionist history.
Can you imagine how awful America would be right now if that was true?
A country based on the Bible would devolve into utter chaos.
I mean, think about this.
What if our founders had allowed its citizens to go to church freely?
If they had the right to defend themselves with guns, if criminals were punished according
to books like Leviticus, if the national currency wasn't held by a private organization who
could print more money whenever they want.
What a barbaric, patriarchal, homophobic purgatory that would be.
But these radicals are serious.
They not only want to rewrite the history books, they want to bring this hellish dream
to a reality.
They even want to limit and restrict men from being able to turn into a woman.
What a bunch of closed-minded bigots.
They deny the most obvious scientific truths that the world, for example, the world exploded
from nothing, and our great ancestors are rocks, bacteria, and monkeys.
We have video evidence that all scientists agree that evolution is an observable fact
if given enough time to observe it.
Google it.
Google never lies to you.
Facebook fact check it if you don't believe me.
They have the answers.
Snopes will even tell you that science is science.
I'm afraid, though, that most of you watching this right now have fallen victim to their
brainwashing, and you might be skeptical, but I warn you, don't deny believing your
lying eyes when you see something you don't know if you're seeing because you're not
allowed to see it.
Just trust us, these people are bad.
The worst kind of awful.
I can't even describe how bad they are.
It's that bad.
But ultimately, no matter what you want to call them, those who want God back in government
are the most dangerous, hostile traitors and domestic terrorists of them all.
The worst in all of human history because they have the Baptist bias.
Thanks again for joining us this evening.
I'm your host, Pastor Jonathan Shelley for The Baptist Bias and our co-host, Ben the
Baptist, why don't you say hello to everyone.
Great to be riding shotgun this evening for another edition of The Baptist Bias and we'll
be looking at this book written by Andrew Torba, Christian Nationalism, a biblical guide
for taking dominion and discipling nations, but we'll be looking at it through the lenses
of The Baptist Bias.
Now I actually have a copy with me here in the studio, I've read the entire thing, it's
actually courtesy of Ben, did you, where did you get the book?
My wife purchased it for me and so I decided to read it and this was a long time ago now
but I figured I would share it with you.
Do you purchase this on Gab or how do you buy one of these things?
I believe she got it off of Amazon and at one point it was on the Amazon bestsellers
list when it first came out.
And that triggered a lot of lefties, a lot of the basket cases who can barely tie their
own shoelaces.
They were very upset about that.
Well, it's interesting cover.
It doesn't even tell you what the name of the book is.
It just kind of has a cross on it.
And it's not really a long read.
It's pretty short.
I think I read it maybe an hour or two so it's definitely not necessarily very deep.
It's kind of just a cursory glance at Andrew Torba and I believe maybe his pastor or a
pastor he's associated with, their kind of viewpoint on defining Christian nationalism.
Now is this kind of your first rendezvous, not rendezvous, is this your first experience
with you know Christian nationalism or these concepts, these ideas?
You have any kind of prior experience of that?
What is?
Yeah, I mean I've heard a lot of the talking points in the political world right now.
The left is using this as a boogeyman for their voters to galvanize their base and scare
them about Christian nationalism.
When you see some figures on the right, some personalities in right-wing politics that
are starting to use this term, I noticed also that Andrew Torba was a huge advocate for
it.
So I figured, let me read his work, let me see what this is all about because I want
to know how Christian nationalism is actually defined by someone who champions it hard,
like Andrew Torba does.
Well, and of course, the founder of Gap.
Yeah, I was going to say that.
Andrew Torba is kind of the CEO and founder of Gap, which is a online social media platform.
It's similar to Facebook is kind of how I would describe it, but they're not allowed
to have an app.
I think they've been banned from both app stores.
They've been banned from a lot of banks.
They've been banned from kind of just anything and everything.
Definitely harassed because they have a pretty liberal interpretation of free speech.
They try to keep it to where anything that's illegal or just kind of smut.
Those are the few categories that they remove.
But other than that, they're pretty much wide open and I appreciate that.
I wish that all media platforms would allow such speech to be out there.
And I think it used to be for the most part, it's just kind of whittled down to the point
where no one else is like that.
From your experience, do you know of any other social media platforms that really kind of
let you just say anything and everything?
Not since YouTube first started, I think in 2006 where it was kind of the free for all.
But other than that, no.
And obviously, when you have an environment like that, when you have a digital playground,
if you will, like that, or public square, then the best ideas are going to rise to the
top.
And that's what the establishment is very afraid of.
Well, and because of their willingness to have free speech as a primary tenet of their
particular business, I wanted to give them the benefit of the doubt.
I tried their platform a long time ago.
It was very clunky.
I think they had a lot of problems because they were adding so many users and it's self-hosted
but over time, it's gotten a little bit better.
I know they came out with a Gab TV and we also signed up for that right away and I've
tried to use that and we uploaded videos but the problem is it's difficult to search.
It doesn't seem like there's a lot of organic traffic over there and so I'm not opposed
to using that but not really something that very many people are using.
Not having the app definitely, it's not his fault but it definitely deters viewers, people
that wouldn't want to do it.
So we're trying rumble for now and of course I don't think that's a permanent solution
but we also have a platform, GodResource.com, you can check that out as well.
But I want to get into this book, now give me a little bit, just give me just a quick
sentence or two, how would you rate this book or what was your thoughts about the book?
Well I think there's a lot in the book that I really appreciated in terms of rhetoric.
I think that Andrew Torba you could tell has a reverence for the law of God, he wants a
Christian society, that's obvious.
He'd like to see America be restored to its Christian roots and what this country was
based on, which is the word of God.
I think if I were to critique it I would say that it's a little light on facts and what
I mean by that is it's a little light on verifiable, here's some citations, here are some verifiable
facts that you can go and do your own research on.
And it's very much, it's mostly like I would say a pamphlet of really good rhetoric about
why America ought to be restored to its Christian roots.
And so if you're looking for something like that, it reads almost like a speech.
If you're looking for something like that, that'll pump you up and be inspirational,
then you'll get what you're looking for.
But I think it's a little light on actual research, in my opinion.
Well, I think that's a fair analysis of the book.
To me, the biggest problem I have with the book is it doesn't focus on, in my opinion,
the most important aspect to actually having a Christian nation, and that is preaching
the gospel and getting people saved.
It leaves me wondering if Torba or this other pastor or the individuals that kind of have
this ideology, if they're even saved, because a lot of them are talking about repenting
of their sins.
They kind of talk about making disciples or discipling people.
They emphasize works a lot.
A lot of that they talk about, I still agree with, but given the context, it almost seems
like they're ignoring the fact that people need to be saved first or that we need to
be focusing on the gospel specifically before we're going to have major cultural change.
It almost seems like for them, it's about building businesses that would change the
culture as opposed to getting people saved.
They don't really have a method for getting people saved that they bring up.
I think it's got a lot of stuff that I think you could extract from it and still benefit,
but by and large, I feel like I just disagree with the book.
I think there's some doctrinal issues there.
For me, the biggest one, you brought up salvation.
That's obviously an enormous deal, but also his views on end times Bible prophecy are
wrong, because in his rejection of the pre-tribulation rapture, he essentially throws the baby out
with the bathwater and just goes full-preterist, seemingly, and tries to teach that all of
the prophetic books of the Bible, or rather, Bible prophecy that is clearly dealing with
future end times prophecy and things that are yet to be fulfilled, that all of that
has already been fulfilled in his zeal for wanting to debunk the pre-tribulation rapture,
because he recognizes to his credit, Pastor Shelley, that the pre-tribulation rapture
breeds laziness. Apathy. That's the words that slipped my mind. It breeds apathy, Pastor
Shelley, so he recognizes that, but the problem is he then goes to the other extreme to say,
"Well, everything dealing with Bible prophecy has already been fulfilled, and I would disagree
with that conclusion 100 percent." Yeah, he kind of rejects the idea that an
Antichrist will come. He rejects the idea that the devil has any kind of authority even
in this world, or that his minions are going to rise to positions of power, and it's kind
of like a conquer the world. It almost reminds me of like what you would
anticipate the Holy Crusades is kind of starting out to be like, and he doesn't say that you
need to force people to believe, but at the same time, that's kind of maybe the mentality
that they have and I think it's good to still talk about some of the excerpts here and also
just to understand, I mean, I like Andrew Torba a lot honestly and I would wish for
him to be saved if he's not. I kind of genuinely don't think that he is, but he does seem to
be right about a lot of things and that's good. That's a good basis, but he's definitely
yoked up with a lot of people that are not safe for sure. It seems like he's very sympathetic
towards Catholics, towards a lot of other fake religions. In fact, in this book, it
kind of starts out with a section dedicated to a guy named Shane Schatzel. I don't know
if you can see that on the screen or not. The Christian Nationalist Declaration. I want
to read an excerpt here because he's going to define Christian nationalism by a man named
Shane Schatzel. It says, "Therefore, Christian nationalism cannot be limited to any race,
ethnicity, or culture." And so he wants to make it clear that Christian nationalism is
simply just being Christian and making your nation Christian, but it's not limited to
a particular race, ethnicity, or culture. But I want to have some skepticism to that
statement because I do agree that it's not limited to a race or an ethnicity because
first of all, I don't believe race exists. That's a man-made construct. Ethnicity is
a pretty broad category as well. Very difficult to probably identify. But when it comes to
culture, there are some cultures that I believe are just sinful, very anti-Christian. So there's
no way to reconcile every culture with Christianity or with a Christian nation. That doesn't mean
that you couldn't necessarily import some aspects of various cultures, but there's going
to be some cultures that are just need to be wholesale rejected because they just by
and large are just antithetical to the Bible, to Christianity, and to truth. And so, you
know, I don't really like this statement and it seems like it's one of those just, please
don't sue me or please, please don't give me a hard time type statements.
I'm going to slightly disagree. And here's why I feel like it's important to make that
point because we're constantly smeared, right? As Bible believing Christians, they think
that we're racist. They think, I mean, CNN defines Christian nationalism this way. They
say that it uses Christian language to cloak sexism and hostility to black people and non-white
immigrants in its quest to create a white Christian America. That's not the point of
the book.
Torben never says that he wants to create a white America. He's not concerned with
skin color. So when he puts a statement out like that to me, he's clearly defining this
isn't about race. This isn't about skin color. And so he's repudiating this, this railing
accusation that left this levy toward him 24 hours a day.
Again, I'm not saying that I disagree with the race or the ethnicity aspect. I'm saying
that I disagree with the culture aspect that I would agree. So yeah, I would agree with
you on that.
And he even takes it. And again, this is not Andrew Torba. This is this is Shane. The preface
to the to the book itself, but obviously he wouldn't put in his book if he didn't agree
with it in general. And another statement here is it's talking about the practicalities
of implementing Christian nationalism from this person's perspective. And he says that
he doesn't want to force anybody to be Christian in the nation. And then he makes this statement.
This is why non-Christians can freely live in a Christian state. They can operate their
own places of worship, synagogues, mosques, or temples without fear of government persecution
or harassment. So Shane Schatzel's perspective of having this Christian nationalist state
would be allowing Jews, those who practice Islam or, I mean, I guess, is there a difference
between temples and synagogues? I mean, that's kind of the same.
It seems the same to me. Jews, Muslims and Jews. But, you know, I want
to contrast that with something for a second because they do bring up a lot of history
in this book. And I have with me a exact reprint. It's the laws of Connecticut, an exact reprint
of the original edition of 1673. So whenever America was first being colonized, they were
able to pass their own laws. And it's kind of broken up alphabetically, but they have
a particular quote here and, or they have a particular section called capital laws.
And this isn't something that I necessarily have a screenshot of. I wish I did, but I
just want to read for you just their first capital law, Connecticut colony. If any man
or woman after legal conviction shall have or worship any other God, but the Lord God,
he shall be put to death. And then they quote Deuteronomy 13, 6, 17, 21 in Exodus 22, 2.
So according to the laws of Connecticut in 1673, if you were a Jew or a Muslim, you
would have been put to death. Yet he's saying I want to create a Christian state in which
Jews and Muslims can live without fear of government persecution in their little temple
or synagogue. That's just not the same as how our nation was actually founded.
Needs to be incompatible, and I'm on board with you there. What was the reference? Was
it Deuteronomy 13? 6, 17, 21, and then also Exodus 22? I'll just read from Deuteronomy
13 just for the viewer so that they can know exactly what we're talking about here. The
Bible says, "If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the
wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying,
Let us go and serve other gods which thou hast not known, thou nor thy fathers, namely
of the gods of the people which are round about, unite thee, or far off from thee, from
the one end of the earth, even to the other end of the earth, thou shalt not consent unto
him, nor hearken unto him, neither shalt thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither
shalt thou conceal him, but thou shalt surely kill him, thine hand shall be first upon
him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people." That's what God
thinks about ecumenicalism. Well, and of course, you know, if you have any questions about
Christian nationalism, we'd love for you to call in 231-Baptist. We'll take some calls
tonight. And again, it's mostly just if you have a question for us, we'd like to talk
about it. But here's what I like about our show, and this is what I want to do with our
show is simply put forth what we believe Christian nationalism should be. Because I don't want
it to get defined by people like Andrew Torba or these other individuals when I don't even
agree with their viewpoint of what Christian nationalism should actually be. Someone should
get up there and say what it should be and lay out a really clear game plan so as to
actually positively influence the culture.
Maybe preach a sermon about it.
Yeah, but I mean, their view is really ecumenical and they even say that. I mean, they make
the statement really plainly in one of the portions of the book where they simply just
say that they want to join hands with Catholics and other groups. If you look up the definition
of ecumenical, if you just Google it, it says representing a number of different Christian
churches is one option. And it also says promoting or relating to unity among the world's Christian
churches. But, you know, in that context, they're going to be talking about Catholic,
they're going to be Episcopalian, Lutheran, Orthodox. I mean, just all of the different
options that are out there. And, and here's the reality. America was not set up to be
this ecumenical, anything goes style nation, but rather the colonists were fleeing from
religious persecution. They had a state church, which was the Catholic church from many of
the areas of Europe and England, or perhaps Anglican, depending on what part of the country
they're from. And they were sick and tired of being told that they have to be a particular
religion when it didn't line up with the Bible. And so they were fleeing religious persecution,
taking the Bible with them, trying to establish churches that they believe were in accordance
to the scripture. And, you know, later in time, we ended up forming governments that
had, you know, a distinction from the church and from the government where it's not the
same person. It's not like the pastors, the president of the or the king of the particular
country, but rather, there's a little bit of a distinction there. So as to prevent as
much corruption, because if you only have one unit, it's easier to corrupt that the
more you kind of have this diverse system, it takes longer to corrupt or it's more difficult
and they can kind of do their duties differently. And I think that that's a good system. I
think that what some people don't realize is how America was established, in my opinion,
is about as close as you're going to get to a perfect system apart from Christ himself.
Because it is based on biblical ideals. Of course, what system did God implement? A system
of judges with the law being the supreme law of the land. And if you look at America, that's
how we were set up. You know, we have the highest law of the land is supposed to be
the Bible and it used to be, you'd put your hand on a Bible to get sworn into the presidency.
Whenever they would have a court decisions, the Bible was a piece of literature that would
be used in reference to court cases specifically. And even the laws in these colonies in these
states were based on the Bible. And we have the Supreme Court, which is supposed to be
the highest authority in the land, interpreting the law, giving guidance, giving precedent
so as to help with the practicalities. But really the problem with America is not so
much the system in place, but rather the people in the system. If we had a righteous culture,
if we had righteous judges, if we had righteous leadership, then there's nothing wrong with
the system. It obviously worked for several hundred years. It's in my estimation, it's
not necessarily so much a flawed system. It is that our nation is flawed, humanly speaking,
culturally speaking, and that Christianity has become very apostate. And so to fix this,
we need to revive Christianity. We need to get people saved and we need to thunder forth
the right ideals and be based. You know, I don't want to join hands with the Catholics.
I mean, the Catholics killed Christians, the Catholics killed William Tyndale for believing
in faith alone. How is that guy less of an enemy than the left woke is the wokesters
or the Democrats? You know, do I really want to let them get into power and control again,
where they're killing people who believe in faith alone? I mean, what is, you know, from
your perspective in reading this book, does it seem like there's any hesitation to be
friend Catholics? No, not at all. I think that it's much less inclined to point people
toward a spiritual solution. It seems more inclined to point people toward a carnal or
political solution. And I even get some bringing in the kingdom vibes. Like if we can make
our planet righteous enough, Jesus will come back and sort of, just again, a denial of
quote unquote "futurism" or the idea that there is a seven year, Daniel 70th week coming
in the future consisting of three and a half years of tribulation, three and a half years
of God's wrath, etc. But one thing I wanted to mention there is really when you talk about
our system and you talk about the fact it really does not need to be completely torn
down and built back up from the ashes again, I think in reality it's a cultural problem
and what's going to fix that cultural problem? Christianity. And if Christianity would stop
being so dead, if Christianity would actually care about the things of God again and care
about soul winning and doctrine and church and things of that nature, you will see a
cultural change and politics is downstream from culture if you truly want political change,
if you truly want a change in leadership, it has to start from the culture. And if the
culture would be Christian again, then I think you would see radical change, real change
from the top down.
Well, and of course, you know, if you're not saved, you're going to have a skewed
view on life. Additionally, if you have eschatology off, that's going to alter your reality as
well. And of course, he brings this up at the pre-trib rapture is causing a lot of
apathy in America, and I wholeheartedly agree. I despise the pre-trib rapture. It's certainly
not true. I mean, the Bible tells us in Matthew 24, immediately after the tribulation is when
Christ is going to return. So to claim that it's pre-trib is really just deny clear scripture.
If you read 1 Thessalonians 4, which is a very clear passage on the rapture, the whole
book is dedicated to tribulation. So it's kind of bizarre to think that that particular
book is going to preach pre-trib when the whole book is dedicated to tribulation.
And the attributes of the rapture in 1 Thessalonians 4 match what is going on in Matthew 24, Mark
13, and Luke 21.
Absolutely. Yeah, and of course you have Revelation chapter
number 6 at the end, giving the same kind of events about the sun being darkened and
the moon's not giving its light. And so, you know, it's going to be very obvious to someone
that looks at all these passages together. They're talking about the same event and that
the rapture is not going to happen just randomly. It's not this pre-trib rapture. But you know,
when you talk about Torba's view, they kind of have a preterist view. And for those that
don't know what preterism is, preterism suggests that everything that we read in our Bible
has already happened. So that's probably the easiest way to explain that. And of course,
a large section, if not almost all of the Bible has already been accomplished. And I
agree that a lot of these things that the Bible talks about have happened. When we look
at in Matthew 24, it talks about the destruction of Jerusalem. And of course that happened
in 70 AD. No one's going to really deny that that happened that has any basis in reality.
Parts of revelation have happened. Of course, the first few chapters are talking about events
that are going to happen in the relative future, soon future to John writing that epistle.
It's talking about seven churches, which are in Asia. They're no longer here anymore. So
of course that already happened. But what's bizarre to me is how people are going to suggest
that Christ has already returned. There's been a battle of Armageddon. There's been
a battle of God can make God. I mean, like the great white throne judgment. I mean, how
far are we taking this? And how are they even pointing to any kind of event in history
or timeline where that's coherent? Do you have any idea of how they argue some of these
events like the great white throne judgment or the battle of God and may God? I mean,
do you know? I've heard some people argue and I've only seen this online, but they've
even argued with me saying that Jesus actually did come back in 70 AD. Like they'll go that
far and say that already happened. All of that. And of course, what they could do with
God and may God and Armageddon and some of these other events is just allegorize them.
Well, those are just allegories. They're not made to be taken literally. This is where
you get your amillennialists who deny that Jesus will rule and reign for a thousand years.
Oh, that's just supposed to be symbolic. When in reality, when you read, you brought up
some aspects of Matthew 24 have been fulfilled. You can read Daniel chapter 9 verse 27, which
talks about how 70 weeks are determined and how in the midst of the week, the sacrifices
will cease, etc. And you have to interpret those scriptures with the principle of dual
fulfillment. And that's what a lot of preterists do not understand, is the principle of dual
fulfillment, that there are going to be certain eschatological passages or passages dealing
with end times prophecy that have a shadow fulfillment and that also have an end times
fulfillment as well. And I think that the Roman siege of Jerusalem is a perfect example
of this, a shadow fulfillment of what is going to happen during Daniel's 70th week, I should
say when the Antichrist rises to power. Well, and if we look at his book, the latter section
is saying that he kind of despises those who have this apathetic view that anything we
do is just in vain and that essentially Christ is going to come any minute. So there's no
point in actually looking towards the future. And I agree with the viewpoint that that's
a bad attitude. I don't think even if Christ were to come soon, we should still live our
lives to the fullest. We should still care about our children, our grandchildren and
making decisions for the long term. But that doesn't mean that you can't also be anticipating
the coming Antichrist. The Bible very clearly tells us to watch and I don't know when that's
going to happen. So even though I do believe the Antichrist is going to come first and
I do believe there's going to be a great falling away and I believe that inevitably
the Antichrist is going to come to power no matter how much I try to influence my nation
or state, that doesn't stop me from wanting to influence my nation or state. In fact,
our whole church, you know, at least a large section of the men of our church went to city
council meetings. We're trying to make positive change. We celebrated the idea that Roe v
Wade was given back to the states so that states could potentially enact better laws
and reduce the amount of abortion. I still don't even think they took it far enough.
So I would hope that we go even closer to what the Bible actually says on this subject.
Those who would murder children would get the death penalty as the Bible clearly teaches.
We're going to be going to rumble only here in a little bit so we can actually talk about
a lot of these laws. But the Bible is very based. The founders of America were very based.
They didn't care what other people thought. They believe the Bible. What's crazy is that
many people don't realize that in Europe, a lot of the countries and areas had dozens
if not hundreds of capital punishment laws. So when the American settlers came to America,
they reduced it greatly down to around a dozen or so, which is what the Bible actually has.
So it was actually reduction of capital punishment and that was a good thing. But at the same
time, they still believed in those few dozen. Our country has gotten to the point where
it's almost impossible to get the death penalty anymore. What that creates is a lot of people
walking around that have no fear to commit the most heinous crimes and evil in our civilization
and society. And so we have so many people that should have been put to death, rapists
and murderers and all kinds of crazy things that are able to just continue walking the
streets and continuing to hurt and harm our society. And through the prison industrial
complex, not what we're talking about tonight, but another subject, I mean, of course they
don't want to put these people to death because then they're still profiting on them like
slaves. Um, but you know, I know that you've read this and you've got a couple of quotes.
Is there, is there something you wanted to point out from the book that kind of stuck
out to you? Just maybe another excerpt that you had? Yeah, there's several portions I
agree with. And like I said, there's some good talking points here. The Bible obviously
teaches that God's law should have dominion over the land. And that appears to be what
Korba is advocating for in the book. And to that extent, insomuch as Christian nationalism
is going to promote the idea of bringing God's law back into government, then I'm all for
it if that's how you want to define it. And something interesting that he said in the
book, which seems to contradict what he said towards the beginning of the book, in the
sense that we were kind of critiquing him for being a little ecumenical there with Catholics
and things like that. But he goes on to say in his book, if we're going to build a Christian
movement, it must be exclusively Christian, and we can't be afraid to say that out loud.
We are all sinners saved by grace, but if you do not repent and believe in Jesus Christ,
which again, I'm not quite sure what he means by repentance there. Just because someone
uses the word repent doesn't always mean that they're a horrible heretic. They could
mean, they could define that as turning from unbelief to belief. I don't know. But regardless,
it says, but if you do not repent and believe in Jesus Christ, then you do not share our
biblical worldview and cannot participate in any meaningful position of authority in
the movement. It's just that simple. We recognize that many non-believers will be sympathetic
to our movement and support our efforts to preserve and grow a Christian culture in a
Christian country. That's great. We welcome their support. But leadership and influential
positions must be reserved exclusively for those who call Jesus Christ King. I like that.
What he's saying here is those who are in authority should be Christians, should be
those who believe in Christ. And that would go a long way in fixing the current state
of America and our trajectory to the depths of hell that we find ourselves in as a nation
right now. And I appreciated that. He later goes on to talk about how we need to reclaim
every area of life as Christians, including politics, but he talks about how every individual
man "must take dominion over his home, over his wife and children, over himself, victory
with this approach is inevitable." He talks about, he says, "Our children will be homeschooled.
Our children will not be attending drag shows, which is pedophile filth. Our children will
not be watching Netflix, filth. They will not be tuning into Fox News or CNN. They'll
not be on Facebook. Our children's children must be our focus." So I appreciate his focus
on the family. I like that. He's talking about homeschooling. He's talking about protecting
our children from degeneracy. So there are a lot of different things that he says that
I agree with and really you kind of have to chew the meat and spit out the bones, I guess.
But there's a lot of good stuff here. Yeah. And you know, I'm glad you, one of the quotes
you had, you brought up the repent. And some people are skeptical of why I would even say
Andrew Torba is not saved. But when you read through these books and similar just messaging
from people that are like him, they always mention repent and sometimes even turn from
sin or repent of your sin and it makes it seem like they don't actually believe in faith
alone. Now, of course, if Andrew Torba believes in faith alone, then he saved. I just don't,
I don't know that I've heard a clear testimony of what he believes and it seems like he's
maybe yoked up with people that believe in the fact that you could lose your salvation,
repenting of sins, kind of a workspace salvation. And so, you know, there's a lot of fake Christians
out there that would suck very genuine people out there into their trap and that they just
still wouldn't be saved. And I think that Andrew Torber is genuine, a sincere person.
He seems like a good guy. I like him. But I just, I'm skeptical that he actually believes
in faith alone and once saved, always saved. And of course, you have to if you want to
be saved.
This person in the chat room says, "When most people say repent, they mean repent of sins,
which is heresy."
Yeah.
Do you agree with that?
Well, again, obviously repenting of sin is a biblical concept, but not in context of
salvation. So, you know, if we're bringing it up in context of salvation, usually people
say that to mean something different. And so, or they're kind of giving lip service
to that crowd, maybe in best case scenario. Obviously, Christ did say repent and believe
the gospel. So even Christ brought that up in, in context of salvation. It's just, let's
define what repent means. It means to change your mind, stop trusting in yourself and
believe only in Jesus Christ to be saved. Whereas the Jews, they were, as the Bible
describes them, willing to justify themselves. They thought they were righteous because they
kept the law, but no one's righteous by keeping the law. Even the apostle Paul, who said he
was in considering the, in consideration of the law blameless, but yet he had to count
that all but dung and put 100% faith in Christ and that's what saved him. It's not by works
of righteousness, which we have done, but by his mercy, he saved us. So, you know, you
know, the book for me, I didn't have a lot of good things to say in general, but there's
a couple of quotes in here that I really liked and I wanted to read one that I thought was
kind of funny. Can we talk about Jews a little bit? Yeah, he does, but it's pretty soft.
It's soft. Yeah. But he has one that says total victory is inevitable. It's chapter
10. And, you know, it was kind of funny to me is what he's talking about liberal churches
a little bit, but I want to read an excerpt here. And it made me laugh out loud when I
was reading it, but it says our victory is inevitable if we plan, build and play the
long game. Our victory is inevitable because the war was already won on the cross. We must
accept that this is simply another battle, the great battle of our age, and we will be
victorious as so many of our brothers and sisters that came before us were in their
own respective battles. It is our sacred duty to rise to the great challenge of our age
as so many have done before us. We stand on the shoulders of giants who stand on the shoulders
of Christ our King. Now that's just kind of give you a little bit of context of the quote
that I wanted to read here, but he brings up something funny I think about music and
it says, let me start here, "When was the last time you heard this sung in church or
worship music even remotely like this?" And he's talking about Jesus of Psalms and he's
talking about Psalms are really powerful and he says, "But this is the worship music that
Jesus sang," talking about the Psalms, "if you want to know what the Jesus of the Gospels
was like, sing his music. There is a direct correlation between the church refusing to
include all 150 of God's war songs in its worship music and the sad, wimpy, ineffectual
state of evangelical cultural engagement." And I just, I kind of laugh because I was
just thinking like, yes, the songs of God and the Psalms are war songs. I love that.
And the music that you hear, these effeminate, queer-like, you know, non-evangelical church
is what I call them. It just, it's pathetic. It's pathetic that you have these queer, effeminate
guys getting up there and whining on stage and just like, "I surrender." You know, "Your
love never fails, never gives up, never runs out of me. Our God is an awesome God." It's
like, that's not the Bible. You know, they need some Psalm 139. They need some war songs
like that. That would make their heads explode. "Do not I hate them, O Lord, that hate thee.
Do not I hate them, O Lord, that hate thee." Now to finish that, we've got to be on Rumble
Only. But hey, Psalm 139. Check it out. It's a great one. I mean, that's the kind of music
that is Jesus. You know, Jesus is the Bible. And so I really liked that point. It made
me laugh kind of out loud when I was thinking about how terrible the music is that's out
there. There's good stuff in the book. I mean, I'm probably a little more positive on it
than you. I do disagree, don't get me wrong, on a number of points that he makes. But I
think there's some good talking points in there. And you can tell that he genuinely
does really badly want to see America restored to its Christian foundation, which we'll be
talking about a little bit later on. But something he says, and I wanted to get your thoughts
on this, Pastor, and see if you agree or disagree. He says that, let's see, one second here,
I apologize. Here we go. He says, "The Great Commission means that if you're a Christian,
you are axiomatically a Christian nationalist. If you say you're a Christian and you reject
Christian nationalism, you are just a disobedient Christian. Agree? Disagree? Do you consider
yourself a Christian nationalist?" Well, at the end of the day, I don't think
that that's a fair statement, just because depending on what part of the world you live
in and what timing and situation, nationalism is kind of not necessarily something that
you have to believe in. I think that in Hebrews chapter 11, it's clear that those individuals
plainly declare that they're seeking a heavenly nation. So they're not really concerned with
the politics of their particular area. In fact, sometimes you need to leave your area.
So I think you could be in a nation where you just look at it and you say, "This place
is wicked. I'm not going to have an influence on this particular nation. I'm going to leave
and go somewhere else." So I don't think that you have to just dominate every nation
with Christianity. In some cases, if people won't receive you, as Jesus said, you know,
shake the dust off your feet or flee into another one. I don't think that Christian
nationalism is always just an automatic given depending on the circumstance. Now, of course,
if you live in a nation where you have the opportunity to influence the culture, politics
or create a new nation, sure, it should be a Christian nation. And I think that's what
America was founded as. And that's one thing I like about the book is the book shows a
lot of quotes from previous charters, laws, what the colonies, why the colonies were set
up, what their beliefs were. And I learned some things from from that. But at the end
of the day, you know, we fight a spiritual battle. So we don't want to lose sight of
that. You know, I think that he's getting a little too carnal. I agree. And again, that's
going to come from if someone's not saved, they're going to be carnal. That's right.
If someone has the wrong eschatology, they may also look at things in a more carnal lens.
And I think that's one thing that I don't appreciate. Like he makes it seem as if pretribbers
are just these terrible people. But you know, a lot of pretribbers are working really hard
to get people saved and preach the gospel and doing spiritual works. And they're just
saying, yeah, this nation is doomed. So, but I know pretribbers that are very adamant
in trying to make influence in our particular government and in our culture, even though
they're a pretribber. So I don't think that that's even fair to just broad brush. And
I'll give you an example. And this is someone that I don't even like necessarily anymore.
I did at one point, but Stacey Shifflett is someone who definitely has put a lot of pressure
on his local government and in the government to make certain changes, has stood up to them,
has made his intentions clear, has tried to influence the culture as being more Christian.
But you know, at the same time, he is still a pre-tribber. He's not, I mean, he's not
like having a different eschatology. He believes that Christ could come at any minute, but
then he's still trying to influence the culture to the best of his ability. So I think it's
not fair to just broad brush, say every pre-tribber doesn't even care about our country, our state
or having biblical laws. I think that plenty of them care very much about their culture
vote. I mean, in fact, I would argue the pre-tribbers are, are strong voters. They probably might
be more politically involved. We think, oh yeah, I think that they vote a lot. And so,
you know, I don't really think that that's fair. I think that Torba, you know, since
he's kind of new to Christianity, I think he's only been a Christian for five to six
years or something like that. I can be wrong on the date, but I don't think he's been
a Christian for very long. I think that he has a warp view of Christianity as a whole
because he's only been kind of fed a particular diet and worldview. And so then he kind of
has the wrong perspective. That's also caught in a few other areas because he says that
pre-trib, or no I'm not sorry pre-trib, pre-millennialism. Pre-millennialism is kind of like only through
John Nelson Darby and through Schofield and that's where it originated. But that's not
true because there are early church fathers, Irenaeus of Leon and others from the second
century and around that time that did believe in a pre-millennialist view. So he kind of
pretends like oh there's everybody was preterist all the way up until the late 1800s and then
all this false doctrine came in with the pre-trib which I agree a lot of false doctrine came
with pre-trib but it's false to then also say anybody that's pre-millennialist and
what a pre-millennialist is is someone who believes that Christ is going to return before
the thousand year reign and that that hasn't happened yet. It's kind of what a futurist
view and to my knowledge most Christians at least of the evangelical genre are all pre-millennialist.
I mean is that not you know from your perspective kind of what you it seems to be the majority
position yeah I haven't really seen too many churches that would deny and I'm Catholics
are different I'm just saying like of Christian and evangelicals pre-millennialist is is the
broad view but you know we're pre-millennialist but we're post-trib pre-wrath and you know
I haven't changed on that I know some people have come to our position and then gone back
to preterism or partial preterism and I would love to talk about that at some point but
probably not this broadcast but I mean we could do it if you want to go six hours yeah
six hours you me and one other person will be watching so I might even fall asleep but
you know I like I said I don't I don't like Stacy Schifflett because I think he he preaches
repent of your sins and I don't even think he saved or if even he is he's very mixed
up and I wouldn't want anything to do with that but at the same time easy least an example
of someone who's very active in the government and is a pre-tribber and I think they just
kind of debunked some of the narrative that Torber brings up in his book pastor Aaron
Thompson says in the chat room pre-tribbers just want to leave us with the right Republican
before they are whisked away on their feathered pillows well they they can't suffer any tribulation
so of course they're gonna also have their 401k still and uh you know make sure that it's really
comfortable maybe some grapes to eat while they're floating up carried up to heaven or how does that
work exactly i'm not quite sure we'd have to ask one of them he asks if gab allows live streaming
do you know if that's true i don't know gab tv we could look into it again the my biggest complaint
with gab tv though is it's like you can't search it seems like or when i've tried to go on there
it's i've had a hard time looking information up and so i don't really i'll do it because we
stream anywhere and everywhere you know pastor thompson should call in why don't you call
in and join us for the the chat i see we have someone in the queue i think he likes uh torba
too but um also we i want to go to rumble here exclusively so we can talk about some of these
other things so if you're in youtube land only you're gonna have to switch over i want to i've
tried to share the uh link before in the chat but sometimes it like blocks it i guess i want to
follow up on something you said though which is with regard to whether you consider yourself to
be a christian nationalist sure and i think it really just all hinges on how you define the term
and you know some people when they call themselves this what they mean is they want to be super
involved in the political fight and you know apparently if you're andrew torba you don't
believe that bible prophecy is really going to actually come to pass in the future and things
like that but the way i look at it and this is how i would define it is you just wish that the
government would adopt the biblical laws and we believe that leviticus 2013 we would like to see
enacted into law and so if that makes us christian nationalists then i would say that
unashamedly yeah and i mean i would consider myself a christian nationalist but probably by
my own definition not necessarily yeah not the exactly right and i think you know when we we're
going to go off youtube here you got less than 60 seconds i'm going to describe that a lot better
so if you're on youtube go join us on rumble i tried to share it in the chat i don't know if
you can see it or not um you can just go to rumble.com type in bab this bias in the search it
should pop up really quickly and you can also call in if you'd like 231-227-8478
and um also uh we will be potentially taking a few calls so if you have a question for us
related to christian nationalism we'd like to hear a question but i think we should define it
ourselves so this is going to be this is going to be in the road for you youtube you know youtube
it got aids and you know it's an incurable disease and so the only option for youtube is just to go
to hell so go to hell youtube all right that's going to get us on rumble how do you really feel
about that is exactly how i feel anything that has aids should be thrown in the fire two three one
two two seven eighty four seventy eight is the number now in this book he brings up the mayflower
compact of 1620 and he puts in just a small uh segment here but one of the aspects is to show
how christian our government was and how these colonists were it starts out it says in the name
of god amen that's how it starts just in the name of god and then it also brings up uh the grace of
god it brings up king james the defender of the faith um it also talks about how we're in the
presence of god and so it's just over and over talking about god and i like that also it has
kind of a list of colonies here and then talks about how they had an official state church
which is something i didn't really understand i didn't know about i don't think before reading
the book i didn't either i knew that a lot of them were very christian but you know they also had a
lot of laws and i do have a few snippets that we can put up on the screen and i want to pull up
something from the statutes at large of pennsylvania and we went to a bible museum in houston you and i
when we were filming the uh preserved bible film and while we were there we were with the tour and
one of the tour guides was showing us quotes from different uh founding fathers and just american
history well one of the things they brought up was uh something that was written in the pennsylvania
law now i believe this is on page two of what you have there see if you can put that on the screen
uh real quick but that looks like he's got it this is a quote by william penn and i want to put it on
the screen so you guys can read it with me but it's on it's on the second page of the pdf that
you have there um it's it's labeled page four but you can go ahead and just put it on the screen
it starts there with the sentence but to the end to the end so you have it right there just put it
on the screen there you go so thanks if you look at this is the laws of pennsylvania i mean these
are the statutes and the laws written by william penn enacted by william penn look what it says
and of course they're talking about uh freedom of religion in this context but it says but to the
end that "looseless irreligion and atheism may not creep in under pretense of conscience
in this province and territories thereof" so when they talk about freedom of religion
when they talk about christian liberty he makes a really clear distinction and says
this is not to allow looseness irreligion or atheism whatsoever this is not saying you can
be a muslim a jew an atheist no no no your freedom of religion is to limit is limited within the
scope of christianity itself and evangelical christianity not even catholicism um in andrew
torba's book he talks about georgia and and i want to read this it says georgia was founded
by general james ogenthorpe or oglethorpe as a refuge for persecuted protestants of europe in
1732 and was officially a mere protestant state granting freedom to worship for all christians
but roman catholics so it you know he's saying in their book and and i you know we can fact check
that but i believe it they're saying look we have christian liberty but not being a catholic because
the catholics are the ones killing christians they're the ones murdering people for believing
in faith alone believing the bible having a bible reading the bible believing any of god's word of
course they don't want to grant freedom to catholics to come back in and put them in this oppressed
state where they're not allowing them to be saved and of course it's always the fake religion that
persecutes the true religion look at the jews the jews killed jesus and they do the same thing
throughout history where the jews hate christianity that's why it's so stupid for us to say that we're
judeo-christian and you know i do like that in the book he does they mock the idea of judeo-christian
he repudiates the term yeah they don't they don't like that term he has a section on jews he has a
section on biblical laws i know that you look some up what's what's something that kind of stood out
to you in this context of biblical laws did you feel like you learned anything um what is your
kind of perspective here well i had no idea that states had their own sort of sanctioned
church or doctrine now i think that when it comes to some of these laws it's important again to
look at this through the lenses of the baptist bias and i think that uh there's a good question
in the chat room i wanted to pose to you in that vein in the rumble chat room of course since we're
now there galatians 216 asks in a christian nationalist society only people who are christian
would be allowed right well i let's clarify that because in the bible sojourners or strangers could
come to the land of israel and live so there's nothing wrong with someone coming to our country
or living in a country that's not a christian what we would need is biblical laws so if we
have the capital punishment laws that exist in the bible then we don't have to worry about
you know other individuals coming and visiting so you know when it comes to the first statute
that i'd read from the laws of connecticut if you worship another god you would be put to death
so i believe that the way this would be interpreted though it's not that a muslim couldn't
necessarily come to america but they couldn't practice their religion in america and they
couldn't set up a synagogue in america and if they tried to draw people away into their false
religion then that could be a potential you know capital offense um i think it'd probably be best
to just deport individuals that were caught proselytizing but obviously if someone had set
up a false religion in your in your country and we're trying to get people to worship a false god
you know that's what the bible says to put that individual to death and that would make our country
great you know we talk about magga but you know i like i like massa you know make america straight
again that's right and you know how you make america straight again is leviticus 2013 which
was a law in connecticut in 2013 in fact let me just read for you it says in um statute seven
if any man lieth with mankind as he lieth with a woman both of them have committed abomination
they should they both shall surely be put to death except it appear that one of the parties
were forced or under 15 years of age and then they put leviticus 2013 and hey i agree with that
wholeheartedly that should be the law of the land we have other statutes i think we can put
one on the screen that talks about man stealing yeah this is from the blue laws of connecticut
in 1712 if any man stealeth a man or mankind he shall be put to death which can be used
to prohibit the act of slavery or what people believe slavery was you know what it was in the
united states at least allegedly and so the idea is you can't steal someone and enslave them
and so the bible prohibits that there in exodus 21 16 amen and of course you know a lot of people
don't realize a lot of the slave owners were jews right and and jews are bringing in a lot
of slaves people don't understand that the first slave owner was actually a black man
and it's not to say that black people are worse than white people because i don't care about skin
color but there's this narrative out there that just white men are just evil and wicked and want
to enslave everybody it's not even true and christians in the northern parts of america
didn't want slavery and wanted slaves to be freed so it's it's a total false narrative that america
has this all this baggage of slavery because when the early settlers came the pilgrims came they
didn't come with slaves or wanting slaves i mean these are christians slavery is a is a it was a
decay of society brought in not adhering to these biblical laws if we had these biblical laws we
wouldn't have slavery and you know okay that's something that as a as a society we've progressed
on and gotten better and we got rid of slavery slavery praise the lord i'm not against that but
you know some people want to equate sodomy to slavery and say like oh we freed the black people
now let's free the fags and it's like no no the fags it's not the same situation and it's offensive
to black people that skin color is the same as being a pervert or a deviant you know the bible
has the death penalty for these individuals the bible doesn't have the death penalty for being
black it doesn't have the death penalty for being a particular skin color um you know i love black
people that love jesus christ and those who are fags that are black should be put to death those
that are white that are fags should be put to death it's not about skin color and i have more
in common with someone who's black and saved than someone who looks exactly like me and is not
saved so it's not about skin color you know why they make it about skin color because the predominant
number of people who are saved in christian are white in america so they their thinly veiled
attack on white people is really just an attack on christianity and truth yeah it's a false veneer
of attacking whites really to attack biblical christianity because like you said that happens
to be the demographic that is mostly christian the colony of rhode island in 1647 says this
and they had actually a few laws that we've kind of already discussed but i thought it would be
worth quoting it says it is enacted by this court and the authority thereof that if any person
having had the knowledge of the true god openly and manifestly have or worship any other god but
the lord god he shall be put to death it then goes on and says if any person within this
jurisdiction professing the true god shall willingly and willingly presume to blaspheme
the holy name of god father son or holy ghost with direct express presumptuous or high-handed
blasphemy either by willful or obstinate denying of the true god or his creation or government of
the world or shall curse god father son or holy ghost such person shall be put to death and law
number one there deuteronomy leviticus also is cited pastor shelly it appears that america
did truly love the law of god love the law of the lord and here we see that those who would blaspheme
god well that is a capital crime in the colony of rhod island what's your reaction amen i mean
what people don't realize is law itself comes from god you know without god we wouldn't have
law the bible tells us the law of god is written on our hearts and so we all inherently know these
things we all inherently know that rape and murder and sodomy and these type of crimes
witchcraft and these things are worthy of death we just inherently know that and it's really just
the bible just puts into words exactly what god has already written on our heart we know these
things to be self-evident self-truths everyone hates someone lying to them stealing murder these
type of sins but even when it comes to capital punishments they're very clear i mean anybody
that doesn't think a rapist should be put to death has just a total wicked heart has been detached
from reality doesn't it probably would commit that crime and so you know we need capital punishment
laws and you know when you look at the laws of connecticut it's not like a big list you know i
have this book here i'll just give you it just kind of even has like one word summaries but it
says idolatry blasphemy witchcraft murder bestiality sodomy incest rape man stealing which would be like
slavery false witness and that false witness is in the context of lying about someone to put them
to death not just lying and then conspiracy like a just pure treachery kind of like what happened
with the elections in 2020 also willful firing of someone dwelling a house so like trying to burn
someone to death so basically like arson an attempt to kill someone a children cursing or smiting their
parents or rebellious child so that's it it's not like a ton but if we just implemented this
antifa would certainly not be able to survive this list in fact very few people in our government
would probably be able to survive this list if any of them and so you know people want to save
america it's just implement god's laws again you know that's all we really need is god's law you
know even people talk about our border issues and i i'm not against a wall and i'm not against
having strict border immigration policies but i'll tell you what if you have these capital laws and
you execute them properly you don't have to worry so much about immigration it removes the incentive
yeah wicked people aren't going to want to come because they're going to get punished immediately
right you know the bible tells us in john chapter number three that the wicked hate the light
you know that's right it says and this is the condemnation that that light has come in the
world and men love darkness rather than light because their deeds were evil and so you know
it tells us how they they neither come to the light so lest their deeds be reproved so they don't
want to come to the light they hate the light the reason why people are flooding in america is very
dark right now not a lot of light is being shown on criminals and evil people and so that's why
it's important to have good laws have the light shining bright and the same with the church you
know church where the pastor is not strict on church discipline isn't strict on doctrine isn't
strict on these things it can allow more predators more evil to come in that's why the catholic
church is flooded with pedophiles flooded with predators you know frankly speaking how can
catholic churches survive if you put pedophiles and rapists to death because that would take out
their entire priesthood i mean yeah just that alone it would collapse in on itself very quickly
absolutely in that scenario so you know really everything rises and falls on biblical laws but
i'll say this i don't think that we're just going to be able to implement biblical laws what we have
to do for christian nationalism to actually happen is we have to get a large percentage
of our population saved we have to go out there and preach the gospel and get a bunch of people
saved get them reading the king james bible and get them plugged into church and if we have them
plugged in the church reading the bible a large voice in our culture that salt can preserve the
nation that can then turn the tide that could cause then men to get into positions of leadership
have representatives that are willing to be the voice for this group of people and then start
changing the laws but it's it's very difficult to start getting biblical laws when the vast majority
of the voices are people speaking our country aren't even saved you know we need louder voices
we need more people to get out there and talk to them uh you know talk to the population about
true biblical Christianity and then in that scenario we would actually get the leadership
we deserve because right now we're getting the leadership that we deserve which is a bunch of
wicked soulless politicians who play ball for whichever donor is willing to give them the most
money and if we had a population that cared about the bible that was saved that had the king james
bible that adhered the word of god then you would get the leadership you deserve in that situation
but people want to talk about let's make america great again arguably the most popular political
slogan since ronald reagan's make america great deuteronomy chapter four says behold i have taught
you statutes and judgments even as the lord my god commanded me that you should do so in the land
whether you go to possess it keep therefore and do them for this is your wisdom and your understanding
in the sight of the nations which shall hear all these statutes and say surely this great nation is
a wise and understanding people for what nation is there so great who hath god so nigh unto them as
the lord our god is and all things that we call upon him for and what nation is there so great
that hath statutes and judgments so righteous as all this law which i set before you this day what
nation is so great as the nation that says we are going to follow the laws of god and if that's how
you want to define christian nationalism as people who advocate for bringing back leviticus 2013
putting these bunch of filthy disgusting dogs these pedophiles to death then you know what
praise god for christian nationalism amen and again you know the emphasis has to be on salvation
getting people saved getting them discipled after they're saved because if you think about it the
apostle paul didn't really involve himself in politics that much apart from being arrested
and dealing through that but when he's going to these areas he's he's just trying to get as many
people saved as possible then they start forming churches and their churches have tons of problems
and then he's trying to get the churches you know more disciplined and and better institutions
but through that process we see christian nations develop throughout history why because people got
saved because people got discipled because churches were actually being a big voice in their area
and so that's why we need people to get into church you need to get into steadfast baptist
church you need to get into pure words baptist church you need to get in a faith word baptist
church you need to get in a verity baptist church you need to get into first works baptist church
you need to get into shield of faith baptist church you need to get into whole fast baptist
church you need to get into stronghold baptist church let me tell you something baptist church
amen and you know what you need to get into a church that's going to make a difference
getting people saved soul winning um we got a church plan in oklahoma steadfast baptist church
oklahoma city you need to get in there get plugged in start going to church getting people saved
if you want to change the culture you have to do that absolutely right now some people would say
are you claiming that in your christian nationalist nation that you're going to just like force people
to be saved and the answer to that is no and in fact even if you don't believe in god as long as
you're not actively blaspheming him or cursing him like the god haters do openly with no consequences
from a legal perspective then you'll be fine right so there still have to be people that we can reach
that are not saved they're still going to be soul winning in this type of society what we're
explaining though is that government will actually punish evildoers like it says that it should in
the bible in first peter chapter 2 and elsewhere well and again i just think that we need as many
voices we can get out there championing the gospel being loud about it you know jesus is telling us
what we hear in the ear preach that upon the housetops so we shouldn't be afraid of what we
believe and you know we've received a lot of persecution for preaching what we believe making
documentary films like the sodomite deception you need to go watch at sodomite deception.com
preaching hot sermons on these issues but we need to get people engaged in salvation by faith and
there's a lot of false prophets online on youtube going out there and they need to be confronted
called out you know the bible tells us that their mouths must be stopped and they're subverting
whole houses teaching things which they ought not and we see the apostle paul going into
synagogue confronting people and you know one of our friends has a pretty popular youtube
channel has a lot of listeners Cassidy Campbell and he's you know currently doing a debate against
a guy who doesn't believe in salvation by faith and you know i think it's great that we have
people engaged in preaching the gospel contending for the faith which was once delivered on the
saints trying to make it clear that salvation is by faith alone and i think that they're actually
debating right now it might be possible for us to watch a little bit of this live stream maybe
comment ourselves what do you think would you want to do it would you want to listen a little
bit absolutely well i don't know if we can get it in there or not i know our production staff
is pretty impressive let's see if we can pull it in and start watching a little bit of this
and uh we might comment ourselves is he talking to believers though yes yeah i believe so okay
all right and so so he's saying that you can fall in you can have an evil heart of unbelief
and depart from the living god true stop losing your salvation okay all right now we're getting
some good stuff you know what i think that youtube has like purposely made their ui so easy to just
go to some other video just to get you're not talking about salvation right i'm talking about
believe like we're back though i hear the audience yeah let's let's see if we can stay on this guy's
trying to twist heber's three is that if you fall in the sand you're not going to believe those
things are good anymore you're not going to we're not talking about that brother we're not talking
about that you're not you're getting off like look right lest there be any of you that fall into a
heart of unbelief is this now somebody a brother right paul this is a warning this is a warning
paul is given to his fellow believers right yeah yes yeah he said yeah guys that that audio didn't
come through talking of course okay all right so no your audio your audio chipped out trying to
explain something wait no no no hold on because you won't allow me to finish answering asking you
this question you keep jumping to other topics all right let's let's pause it or just read it
for a second let's let's talk about this because hebrews 3 and you know again if we're going to
make our nation christian we got to get people saved first so i think this is important to talk
about he's bringing up hebrews 3 verse 12 which says take heed brethren lest there be in any of
you an evil heart of unbelief and departing from the living god and you know in hebrews chapter 3
it is clear it's talking about saved believers but you know just because salvation is by faith
alone we have to define that because what is what is our faith in our faith is in the death burial
and resurrection of jesus christ to be saved but the bible has other subjects and other topics of
our life that we're supposed to put faith in you know we're supposed to trust the lord with our
finances we're supposed to trust the lord with our marriage we're supposed to trust the lord in
which career we pick we're supposed to trust the lord in where we live you know we're supposed to
trust the lord in what church we go to there's a lot of areas where you're supposed to put faith
in the lord and that's not talking about the salvation experience that's not talking about
becoming a child of god and of course the children of israel their picture of salvation
and you know their story is kind of a symbol but their picture of salvation was when they put the
blood on the door post of the lamb that they were trusting in the blood of the lamb to save them
and all they had to do is just put it on the door post and they're saved then you have them going
out and being confronted with the red sea they walk through the red sea which is a picture of
baptism and then they have this journey through the wilderness where they're supposed to go to
the promised land and that's kind of picturing the christian life. You're going to go through
trials tribulations and temptations so what could happen though is someone believes in christ gets
saved gets baptized but then they get easily offended or they decide not to trust the lord
for the rest of their life and they want to go back to egypt you know the bible talks about this
i think in a parable of the sower in a good way where it talks about and i'm surprised that
somebody wouldn't even use this as a privilege to lose your salvation but it says which believe
some believe for a while yes you know what i'm talking yeah i know exactly what you're referring
to maybe i can look that up but it's talking about in the parable of the sower where individuals are
basically they're offended by the preaching they're offended by god's word and of course
when it uses the word believe faith these type of things it's not always in the context of
salvation you know there's other hebrews 11 yeah what bring that up real quick i want to look this
verse up well in hebrews chapter 11 it talks about how all these great men you look at able
you look at enoch you look at noah it brings him up as well abraham talks about by faith when he
was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance obeyed and he
went out not knowing whether he went by faith he sojourned in the land of promise etc my point is
is you can do things by faith as a christian and there's a difference between being faithful and
having faith in the lord jesus christ for salvation but you can have faith in other areas of the
christian walk of the christian life that then lead to action and i think that's the kind of
faith that it's describing in hebrews chapter 11 and unfortunately though hebrews 3 is twisted
by those who think you could lose your salvation because it does say that the it talks about here
not having an evil heart of unbelief and departing from the living god well again luke 8 verse 13 is
the verse i was thinking of it just talks about the parable so it says they on the rock are they
which when they hear receive the word of joy and these have no root which for a while believe and
in time of temptation fall away so it's kind of talking about how someone gets saved and they're
trusting in the lord or having faith in the lord for a short duration and then they fall away which
is the same concept here in hebrews chapter number three with having an evil heart of unbelief and
falling away meaning that essentially excuses fall away by the way that's a good example
but if they fall away it's impossible to renew them again under repentance seeing that they
crucify christ afresh and put them to an open shame so it's impossible to get saved again
once you're saved you're always saved but what you could do is depart from god in the sense
that you're like the prodigal son or demis hath forsaken me having loved this present world
and so you can you can have people decide to stop serving god essentially but you know to a calvinist
or some of these other individuals that's impossible they think oh you can't depart
because if you're saved you're just going to be perfect and only get better better better and
better but that's not what we see in the bible ever we see constantly good men going bad we see
Solomon starting good ending bad we see other men in the bible David starting really solid kind of
ending on kind of a negative note and having some of his worst sins later in life Saul starting
really good ending bad Samson starting really good ending bad so it's a common theme in the
bible where good people I mean even Noah Noah does great but then he gets off the ark gets drunk
and has all the you know basically I don't want to talk about it's gross but you see a constant
pattern of people having problems at the end of their life it would be silly to suggest even
Moses even Moses towards the end of his ministry doesn't trust the Lord fully and because of that
he's unable to enter into the promised land so to suggest is Moses not saved now salvation now I
want to go back to our listening and and again to give you context Cassie Campbell's our friend
and this other this other young man was a young young dong reborn young dong he used to believe
in salvation by faith I think but then he's heretic now he believes in work salvation
he's a but I saw someone put a question here and I'll answer it for them it's going back to our
national christian nationalism they said weren't the laws of Connecticut enacted before the
constitution essentially that was a good question yeah and yes of course obviously 1673 is before
1776 not only that but specifically you know not every colony accepted the constitution immediately
I think some states took a few years to ratify and adopt that however what people don't realize
is that these laws and laws similar carried forward all the way into the 1800s and so those
states still had these laws still had this type of a framework even well beyond the declaration
of independence because what the declaration of independence did is it transferred as a nation
who was in control instead of it being a king in England it's now just loosely all of the states
have their own you know federal government they have their own system of government that didn't
have very much power the states were still very much in power it did not change anything in regards
to how states could run and operate what laws they were going to pass in fact that's why they
really tried to stay away from putting two greater restrictions on there you know the first amendment
giving you all this liberty was so that the states could do whatever they want but it wasn't so that
they would be atheist or jews or muslims that's just a bizarre ideology but let's go back listen
to don uh continue to debate here cassidy so that way you know on some of these more difficult
questions we can pause and give our thoughts too every verse says he that believeth has eternal
life right just like he that you know you are saved by grace through faith has right saved by
grace through faith you believe that someone can remove belief from the equation and still have
eternal life or you can remove faith from the equation and still access grace at least that's
what i'm understanding right um but if you don't believe that you you believe that if someone stops
believing that they do what happens at that point anymore you said you said they don't care in the
flesh sure sure but i'm saying they still have access to the grace even though they no longer
have faith absolutely absolutely because you're you're sealed into the day of redemption so if
you're sealed into the day of redemption like uh aphesians chapter 4 verse 30 says and grieve not
the holy spirit of god whereby ye are sealed into the day of redemption it doesn't say well don't
grieve the holy spirit of god otherwise you're gonna lose your salvation no it says don't grieve
the holy spirit of god whereby ye are sealed what verse what verse are you quoting what verse are
you quoting uh the aphesians 4 uh 4 30 okay all right okay so then you know you're saying then
that here's a contradiction in the bible because the aphesians 2 8 makes it very there's no
contradictions i mean aphesians through 2 8 says you're saved by grace through faith you believe
that if someone can stop having faith they still receive grace well it does say this um also if
you want to look at this it says uh it says here in second hey let's pause this for a second so
this this would be you know this is he's trying to use word games here number one when you believe
on the lord jesus christ you become a new creature inside you have the new man and the new spirit
and the new man is incapable of sinning so that new man is never going to lose faith in god
so it's kind of a it's kind of a a tricky argument here that he's trying to put forward
and saying like oh you're saved by fate but this person has no faith well maybe the old man has
lost faith or has some level of unbelief but in the new man someone who's trusted in christ will
never stop believing in jesus christ i believe that is impossible just like if i were to tell you
you know what on december 25th a fat guy from you know the north pole comes down the chimney and
gives me gifts his name's santa claus you know that's who gives me presents i you know the
presents just show up but it's obviously some guy named santa claus that gives them to me
now if i told you that i believe that you would never believe that i had understood the truth
about santa claus you would be like you're still deceived you're still confused on that
particular issue someone that actually believes santa claus is real has never learned the truth
about santa claus because you're never going to go back to believing in santa claus after realizing
that fairy tale and really only children can usually be deceived by something so uh crazy
of the idea of santa claus but if someone were to say i truly believe in santa claus you would never
think oh they've reverted back and the same is with jesus christ someone who's believed on the lord
jesus christ is never going to go back to a state where they just don't believe in his existence or
that he's the savior whatsoever and if someone did claim oh i used to believe in jesus but now
i'm an atheist or a mormon that'd be the same as someone saying like yeah i someone told me that
santa's not real but i don't believe santa and i used to think that santa might not be real but i
believe santa's real it's like they never understood the truth about santa they never understood you
know the the real thing that's going on here and of course even if someone loses faith in their
flesh or in a certain area of life they're not going to reject the lord jesus christ you know
that that doesn't mean that um you can't have levels of unbelief or losing a faith someone
brought this idea up to me they said what have you got hit in the head and you forgot who you were
but but here's the thing okay but what if i get hit in the head and i forget who my parents were
which i i don't even know if that's possible but even if i did it wouldn't change who my parents
were yeah that's so it's a silly argument that's being made by don reborn here uh it's just a word
game yeah because you cannot lose your salvation for any reason and it it's just it only comes
from someone that just doesn't believe the bible and you know what young don is an example of
someone who never truly believed because this is a youtuber who went from preaching one saved always
saved to now vehemently opposing it and producing content designed to debunk it and he preaches a
hardcore work salvation now teaches you have to keep the law to be saved the bible says in john
chapter number three he that believeth on him is not condemned but he that believeth not is condemned
already because he hath not hath not believed the name of the only begotten son of god so you either
believed or you never did i mean it's not it's not like you could it's people don't stop believing
nobody become atheist after getting saved they just never believed to begin with they went out
from us but they were not of us the bible is very clear on this if you become an atheist later on
or muslim or whatever you were never saved to begin with these damnable heretics love to throw
this in our face thinking that they got us but in reality it's very easy to explain yeah i mean if i
said two plus two equals five then you would you would never believe that i i truly understood
math i would no of course not you would never i truly believe two plus two equals five then you
would just say like this person just doesn't understand basic math and so the same as with
someone that's like i just don't even think jesus is real or i'm now a muslim or something they
never understood anything about jesus it was fake even if they gave lip service to it it wasn't real
someone that believes on jesus christ is saved they're never going to stop believing in him
for salvation but that doesn't mean they couldn't lose faith in other areas absolutely right hebrews
3 6 says this just want to go back to that but christ as a son over his own house whose house
are we if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end young
don uses that also out of context to teach his damnable heresy that you can lose your salvation
but the way i explain this and feel free to chime in after if you have a different view or disagree
or whatever but it says christ as a son over his own whose house are we now remember what the bible
teaches we are the temple of god and the reality is first corinthians chapter 3 says that he that
defileth the temple of god if any man defile the temple of god him shall god destroy so yeah whose
house are we if we continue right if we hold fast to confidence meaning that if you depart from god
just like the children of israel did in the wilderness which hebers 3 brings up as an allegory
of a backslidden christian if you depart from the lord and you decide to live a wicked life
and you defile your temple you're not going to be god's house anymore because god will destroy you
and when your soul leaves your body guess what it's not your body is no longer the house of
god anymore so i think that's what it's describing there well let's go back and listen to more of
this uh debate otherwise grace is no more grace but if it be of works then it is no more of grace
otherwise work is no more work what then israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for but
the election hath obtained it and the rest were blinded let's continue going down here according
as it is written god has given them the spirit of slumber eyes that they should not see and ears
that they should not hear on to this day and if you don't mind just for the viewers here because
the kjb gets a little tricky for some people i'll go to the csv right here right gross okay
continue what i asked then have they stumbled so he's departing from the lord absolutely not on
the contrary by their transgression salvation has come to the gentiles to make israel jealous now if
their transgression brings riches for the world and their failure riches for gentiles how much
more will their fullness bring now i am speaking to you gentiles in so far as i am an apostle to
the gentiles i magnify my ministry i'm if i might somehow make my own people jealous and save some
of them for if their rejection brings reconciliation to the world what will their acceptance mean but
life from the dead what does this have to do about losing personal salvation so is the whole batch
and if the root is holy so are the branches he's gonna go down now if some of the branches were
broken off there's a verse and you the gentiles through a wild olive branch were grafted in among
and have come to share in the rich root of the cultivated olive tree do not boast that you are
better than those branches but if you do boast you do not sustain the root but the root sustains you
then you will say branches were broke are we back i can't even read we back read okay here let me
share my screen uh i think after this next point that you make don i feel like we should let the
people talk so sure let me can let me finish because i would just want it to give the context
he's like your point's not even making sense do we have to make his argument for him because i know
where he's going yeah we can go to romans 11 here and debunk this in a second the discord link what
discord link uh i was gonna give them a link to my discord so i can be able to join yeah let's just
you want to show well you know what what i notice about these people and i don't i haven't watched
very blurry what i notice is yeah just you can you can pause it for a moment well we'll come back
but what i find what's interesting about these people is they'll ignore the mountain of verses
and i saw cassidy initially was given a lot of good verses i think before our show he's he's saying
you know not by works of rites this is what we have done by his mercy you can't lose i mean just
everlasting life eternal life all these different verses it's like they just ignore all that and
then they just go to the obscure passages of the bible talking about the nation of israel as a
whole what does that have to do with individual salvation nothing why wouldn't you go to the
previous verse or chapter romans chapter 10 actually talks about personal salvation and it
it doesn't even say like you might be safe think about this if you could lose your salvation
wouldn't the bible have to say for whose servers are called upon the name of the lord
might be saved if they continue in faith i mean or they might be saved if they don't screw up
later or it just says you shall be saved it doesn't say like maybe hope so could be we're
not sure it's just always in definitive terms and it's always in a past tense term saved with a d
with a d it's not like well because here's a question if you believed on jesus christ it
says in that moment you have eternal life and in that moment you're saved but let's say then later
you lose it or go to hell what were you saved from because that individual never even went to
hell yet so they were never saved from that hell it never even happened it's self-refuting right if
it's saved with a d at the end that means you could never go to hell otherwise it would be a
lie which of course we know god cannot lie and the bible is crystal clear on this particular issue
you know of course we're talking about step number one of understanding when it comes to the bible
but when you're not saved it just shows how everything just goes over your head you can't
understand anything and when you're that screwed up you know you're gonna have you're gonna have a
lot of problems that's why it's important that if we were going to set up christian nationalism
it's based on salvation by faith and we're not bringing in the catholics we're not bringing in
the false prophets and the jews and all this stuff because these individuals look he's already
ready to get rid of the king jane's bible yeah he's going to the whole what is that the holman
yeah i think christian standard they change their name let's go to the christian standard but let's
go to the aids version or something yeah it's like what version are you going to take next
i mean this is why if you're going to have true christian nationalism you have to be based
to just say look it's salvation by faith alone we're not tolerating work salvation we're not
talking we're not tolerating false religion we're certainly not bringing in atheism muslims and jews
and all this other stuff no no no it needs to be crystal clear and of course those that are going
to blaspheme god would be put to death we're not going to tolerate this nonsense now i do i do
believe though the catholic church and john calvin some of these individuals they were putting
people to death for heresy i don't want to put people to death for heresy nor would i think
that would be the proper way to create a nation but you shouldn't allow them to be in your area
you know and and the laws of connecticut they would find people uh according to the bible
you would just you would exile people or you would get them without the camp or you would have them
leave you know but you can't have work salvationists and faith alone people living together having
community together i mean these people are just as bad as the left it's just they haven't gone
down that rabbit they haven't gone down the reprobate toilet bowl as long but boy they can
get there and so spiritual democrats yeah we can't just allow and tolerate anything under the guise
of christianity you know that's going to destroy the nation i'm with you just as much as anything
else will well let's make his argument for him roman's 11 because he can't read verse 21 says
for if god spared not the natural branches take heed lest he also spare not thee behold therefore
the goodness and severity of god on them which fell severity but toward the goodness if thou
continue in his goodness otherwise thou also shall be cut off roman's 11 is dealing with nations
that's why it uses this allegory of branches plural it's dealing with nations and it's saying
that hey the nation of israel was cut off because of their wickedness because well really because
of their unbelief it says in roman's chapter 11 they're cut off because of their unbelief
and you gentile nations can also be cut off from the blessings of god if you turn on him
in the same way that's it it's about nations and the united states we're talking about
christian nationalism the united states has been cut off from the blessings of the lord
as a nation because we as a nation have spit in the face of god because as a nation we've turned
to filth and abomination and deviancy and degeneracy and satanism but that's what this
is describing that's what it's talking about i thought that biden was like a blessing and
kamala harris i mean aren't these just wonderful gifts from god i stand corrected i mean you know
the powers that be or ordained of god therefore god wanted us you know to have such a wonderful
christian leader i mean right isn't um he a beloved catholic yeah joe biden joe biden well
he could be part of the you know catholic nationalism i guess bill and hillary clinton
are baptists so there we go you know what we just need some more baptists like hillary clinton
you know what a wonderful baptist obama claimed to be christian too we already had christian
nationalism what's the point of the show yeah everyone's christian you know trump loves two
corinthians and you know we basically ron de santis the catholic why would we not want him
to be our president well you see when trump said that he never asks for forgiveness what he meant
is you don't have to ask for forgiveness to be saved he's actually teaching salvation by faith
there well i think we've got to wrap up we can listen to this all all day long you know some
people would be critical of even debating someone on salvation and i can understand that argument
you know the bible is clear that a man that was inherited after the first and second ammunition
reject but i i do think that in some context you know in contending for the faith we see
men like the apostle paul we see the lord jesus christ we see a lot of these individuals
engaging in public discourse and essentially preaching what the bible says and contending
with people over and over not so much for their benefit but rather for the audience rather for
the people and so i think that you could argue there's a some profit and contending for the faith
publicly if if i were having a discussion with someone that's unsaved like this privately you'd
want to just shut it down pretty quickly because there's not really any benefit but you know when
we talk about the subject of salvation specifically being the you know the most important doctrine i
think that there's some room there for people to try to explain their faith go out there champion
the right gospel and and maybe went over some audience members went over some people you know
people got saved i think from listening to Jesus rebuking the Pharisees and the Gentiles got saved
when Paul is rebuking the Jews in the synagogue and in fact that's what made them so mad is that
when they came back the next the next week there were so many Gentiles like the whole town came
to hear Paul preach that they were filled with envy that he had this great audience coming and
finally listening to the Bible being preached but you know of course it didn't end well for
him in every case but i'm just saying like don't you think that there's some room for contending
publicly on the gospel otherwise i mean how are you gonna have any kind of public discourse or we
just we're we got a shout out from the rooftops in my opinion my hope is JD on who's a popular
youtuber will get saved as a result of that because he's moderating the debate and you're
right there could be as a side effect people who tune in and they hear cassidy give clear scriptures
about eternal life and not losing your salvation while the other guys go into all these parables
and dark sayings and go hey you know what seems like the bible teaches you can't lose it and then
they end up getting saved so hopefully that's what happens in reality if you were to engage in that
discussion it's not to try to change the mind of young judas twice dead it's to try to change the
mind of the viewer out there who has not yet made a decision and i think that goes for several
different topics pastor if james white wanted to have a public debate with you about king james
onlyism i'm sure you wouldn't go into it thinking you could change his mind but rather those who are
in the middle who have not yet made a decision yeah i think that some of these these bigger more
important topics that we should be willing to get out there and have public discussion and usually
my test is just does this person have an audience or is there someone that i can reach if it's really
i mean i've even given the gospel to people where i didn't even think they were gonna get saved but
their kids were listening and i'm just kind of still giving them the gospel just so maybe their
kids will listen or the kids could get something out of it and so you know i think that there is
some room to go out there and engage the world with the gospel and be willing to contend for
the faith and i think that we should consider you know erring on the side of giving too much gospel
than trying to hide our light or not being willing to put it out there. I've benefited from people
contending over the gospel or other topics i've learned a lot i like those type of things i think
it engages people and so i think that you know it makes sense in some in some contexts obviously
not every situation we don't want to just spend our whole lives debating people that aren't going
to listen that doesn't make much sense and that's why i really against apologetics is they're trying
to go to an audience that's all atheist who are like willingly ignorant and try to convince them
that god exists well even if you win the argument you don't even get anybody saved at least if you
win an argument on salvation by faith people are going to get saved if you win the argument to them
right there's no like changing or if you convince people to use the king james bible that's a great
change that they've made so if you're not even advocating for a change that's really important
you kind of kind of ask yourself what what am i doing here but i do want to plug our next week
is our final episode of the baptist bias season two we will have another season god willing
and i'm also planning on doing a different podcast following that particular episode so you can still
check in for the next couple weeks but i do want you to to plug in next week we're going to be
doing something really fun it's going to be really different you don't want to miss next week it's
going to be pretty exciting we're going to try and call some people and it's you don't want to
miss the show i don't want to give too much away yet good teaser i'm excited about it and you can
always check us on rumble you can check us on god resource we'll put some of the show on youtube as
long as they keep it up but you never know also there's other ways that you can listen to our
podcast ben why don't you give us some of those other alternatives we're on google podcasts apple
podcast the stitcher radio app spotify pod bean and by the way i received an email from amazon
now it was automated they have no idea who i am they have no idea who pastor shelly is if they
did they would have never sent me the email but they said in this automated email they have
heard that i am hosting a podcast and they would like me to put it on amazon so stay tuned because
that might happen amazon music might be carrying our show as well if i can get that to work but
that's where you can find us and you can listen to this thing on the go there well thanks so much
for joining us from the baptist bias studio i'm pastor shelly signing off bins finish it off all
right we appreciate you tuning in this evening we'll be back again next week god bless you all and
for pastor shelly this is benjamin naeem signing off talk to you guys again after a while