Hey guys, this is Matt Powell with Way of Truth.
I'm joined today by a very special guest, Sanya Azzam, right?
Right.
Yep.
Okay.
Wanted to make sure I pronounced her name all right.
She is a former Hebrew rooter and I think she spent about a year in that movement.
And so we're going to take today and just interview her and ask her some questions about
what it was like to be in the Hebrew roots movement.
She's going to tell us some of the stories that happened during her time in the Hebrew
roots movement.
But I also wanted to give you viewers a special announcement.
I know it's kind of a letdown for some, at least it is for me.
And I know there's some people that were expecting the movie to come out on June 11th.
And unfortunately, due to all the wedding plans that I had to do, and that I'm still
doing with my future wife, we are still really booked with a lot of stuff.
So I've been working on this film for quite a while and still working on it, even while
planning the wedding.
And so we've decided to just set the release date to the fall of this year.
So the fall of 2019, at some point the film is going to come out, I would say probably
roughly about three or four more months.
So in three or four months, you guys should be seeing the complete film and it's going
to be a great movie.
And we're going to go ahead and interview Sanya here for this movie.
And so, Sanya, I want to take a moment and just thank you for coming on to the broadcast.
And yeah, Sanya, just feel free to introduce yourself and tell us about your channel.
Hello, everybody.
Yes, I'm Sanya and I'm just a nobody to be honest, I just started to make videos on Facebook
about a year ago.
And only recently I've been uploading them on YouTube.
And yeah, I just like to study the Bible, read the word.
I like to do a little research now and again.
And I just present my ideas, share my views and perspectives.
And yeah, that's it, really.
Awesome, awesome.
And so, Sanya, tell us a little bit about your experience, because obviously you and
I both have a root in the Hebrew Roots movement.
But you and I have both come out of it today.
We're not going to be focusing on my story behind the Hebrew Roots movement.
We're actually going to be focusing on Sanya's story behind the movement.
So, Sanya, would you mind just giving us a little bit of an overview of how they got
you involved and kind of just an overview of how you got out of it and just kind of
an overview of your story?
Right.
So basically I was, it's really odd, because at the time I wouldn't have sort of
considered it the Hebrew Roots movement.
It was the terminology I later sort of came across.
At the time it was more like, oh, Torah, observant, Christianity sort of thing.
And I think the time that I was in there would have been just a little over a year as
a Christian.
And it was something that I was just very interested in, very keen to know more about.
And it was only till about a year into it, I began actually probably a little earlier
than that.
I was beginning to notice a few things that were cause for concern.
And I just started to research, pray with a lot of prayer involved and really just talking
to the Lord and asking him for direction.
So I was very careful, but obviously prior to that, not careful enough.
And then, yeah, eventually I kind of stepped away from the whole movement and I began to
express myself on my Facebook page.
And again, most of the involvement within the Torah communities online, social media.
So it was, yeah, I really kind of put it out there and I was asking questions and that's
when things got a little heated.
Right.
And one of the things that I've noticed personally about the Hebrew Roots Movement, Sanya, is
the fact that they will not on the surface tell you what they believe.
And I don't know if you've noticed this or not, but a lot of times, at least it was this
way for me, they would use the name of Christ Jesus to reel you in.
And then once they had you in, then they would do a bait and switch and say, oh, well, the
real name of the Messiah is Yeshua.
And Sanya, was that ever a situation that you would come across in the Hebrew Roots
Movement?
Yeah.
And I think it's really good when I reflect back and I'm trying to think on like, what
was it exactly that initially hooked me in?
And I think it's like, it's like a mantra that goes around within that community, the
Torah Reserve and Hebrew Roots, is that Jesus is the Torah, Yeshua is the Torah.
And it is like a mantra.
It goes around so, so often now that you just think, oh, yeah, you know, of course, yeah,
you know, he's the law fulfillment of the law.
But another thing that I think is the beginning of the slippery slope is that Jesus was a
Jew.
He would have spoken Hebrew.
He did wear tassels.
He kept Sabbath.
Now, if we really want to walk like Jesus, we should follow him in his ways.
And I think most people and Christians, well, Christians generally think, well, yeah, yeah,
we know historically.
Yeah, of course, he's a Jew.
He would have behaved like a Jew.
And so I think that's the entrance where you get into looking at the feasts, the holy days.
And then you start to take a sort of an unhealthy interest in just that one thing.
And suddenly you realize you're spending less and less time in the New Testament and more
and more time in the Old Testament.
And before you know it, I mean, it's a long story and trying to cut it short to extend
to just express what it is that hooks you in.
And suddenly it's all about Torah, this Torah, that the law, how if you don't keep the law,
you are lawless because sin is transgression of the law, thus lawlessness.
But this eventually took place, and that's when I was like a little like, have I exchanged
the grace of God to go back under the law?
And then I knew already that that means I go under the curse again.
It was very confusing, very confusing time.
Right, right.
And God is not the author of confusion.
And I remember being confused myself as a 17-year-old boy, just wondering what to believe.
And I remember just, and this brings back just a lot of memories for me personally,
just as you speak of this, of things that I had gone through in that movement.
And Tanya, if you wouldn't mind telling us, how did you, what was that step that made
it so you were able to come out of the Hebrew Roots movement?
What does that step, what is that, what was that moment that God really just broke through
and showed you that it was a fake?
It was, because it was quite a confusing time, and now in hindsight, I understand it's because
of the effects of spiritual abuse, you're not sure what exactly is going on.
I began to notice a lot of similarities within the movement with Islam.
I'm a former Muslim, and there were certain elements with what I was doing that really
reminded me uncomfortably, scarily, a lot to do with Islam.
The exterior, the external things, everything was very outward, and it was very ritualistic,
shipping Sabbath at the right time, sundown to sundown, wearing the tassels.
I mean, I was wearing the tassels because it was considered, well, you know, it's there
for a reminder, you know, we are, we have crossed over, you know, Christianity's really
Greco-Roman paganized version of the true faith of Yeshua.
And so it was just gradually, I was becoming Hebrew, literally.
The one thing I didn't do was pick up the Hebraic kind of lingo that goes around within
the circles, because I thought, well, that's silly, I don't understand it.
But I was picking up certain words that they would use.
And again, it all just reminded me of Islam, and I'm thinking, I just left a type of bondage,
the Lord delivered me, and I feel like I've been plonked into another one, something isn't
right, doesn't, I feel like my peace is gone, and I was really, like, disturbed.
I was doing Sabbath, so why would I not have peace?
It was really odd.
I was like, I have Him already.
He's my Sabbath on a daily basis.
And I think the danger was, for me, because I love the Word of God, I always have, I was
beginning to listen to way too many teachers, the Torah teachers, and letting them teach
me, because, let's face it now, I mean, they're popping up all over the place.
I mean, they're literally spoiled for teachers.
There are so many now.
And so you begin to, you know, listen, and some of the teaching was, I would say, it
was nice, it was good, you know, they have a way of hooking you in.
But again, there was so much that I was just, I mean, one of the main things that really
upset me, I think, was the attack against Christians.
I would see, again, on social media, on Facebook, I would see just these horrendous sort of,
you know, like memes that are posted on Facebook.
And most of them were very, very anti Christian attacking Christians for keeping Christmas,
Easter, going church on Sundays, and it was just the language.
I just thought it was very hostile.
And it wasn't just one or two people that I could just say, Oh, you know, they're rather
extreme, ignore it.
It was actually becoming quite a problem.
And I was like, as soon as I saw the name Jesus being sort of slandered, if you like,
I that's when I really took a step back, and I thought, No, I don't like this.
I don't like it.
There's something about that name that is very precious to me.
Yeah, fine, if they want to call him Yeshua, whatever, but later on, I had to do my research
and find out what is the deal with these?
Why names?
You know, for over 2000 years, you're telling me we now have to call him a certain name.
It just sounded way too mystical, kabbalistic.
Again, the association with Islam, because you can only call Allah Allah, you can't just
say God.
It was just Yeah, I just, I was very keen to really find out from the Lord to help me
to help me make sense of it all.
And he's so gracious, he did.
And not only myself, my friends also started to take a look a little deeper into Well,
let's take a look at the names.
You know, what's the what's the meaning behind the tetragram?
The Yahweh Yahweh name Yahweh Yeah, it was a mess.
I mean, I have it all on Facebook.
If I had to look back and just look at the thread, the posts that I made, it was crazy
to have people attacking me from the Torah observant community, saying that I'm confused.
I've been I'm deluded.
I'm going back into lawlessness.
In fact, there's one particular person Am I allowed to mention names not mention names,
Rob skeever on his page, he actually, it was interesting, because he was one of the people
that I would watch on now you see TV, to be honest, it started with now you see TV.
I went on then I put a post just to say, you know, I was in this movement, I returned to
my first love.
And I just thank God that he he's opened my eyes and he went and commented and said, Oh,
so you're returning back to lawlessness.
Let me know how that works for you.
And I think people know when you say I'm returning to my first love, we all know we're talking
about Jesus Christ.
You know, and to associate my faith with Jesus and say that is lawlessness.
I really thought thank God he's taken me out of this thing, the spirit behind this movement.
It's not right.
It's not right, you know.
Right.
And I love what you said about the name of Christ, the name of Jesus versus the name
of Yeshua.
And folks, one of the most important things, and if you're a Hebrew rooter and you're listening
to this, I would really encourage you to consider this fact.
The name Yeshua was not invented until the 1800s.
And so the Hebrew rooter is what they say is that, you know, the name of Jesus is a
pagan name.
Now, not all of them say that it is.
A lot of them say, well, it's an inferior name, which is still very blasphemous and
wrong.
You know, the Bible says in Acts 4, 12, it says, neither is there salvation in any other
where there is none other name given under heaven among men, whereby we must be saved.
And so that's the name of Jesus Christ.
And one of the things that's important to realize and to understand is that the name
of Yeshua did not come about until the 1800s.
Why?
Because the actual Hebrew language that we use today, not the same Hebrew in the time
of Christ, was invented in the 1800s.
And so, you know, when people say, oh, well, Yeshua is the original name.
No, it's a name that was made up in the 1800s with a language that was made up in the 1800s
that they just slapped the tag Hebrew on it and said, well, this is the original.
And then they say that we're pagans for actually using the original.
The original name for Christ Jesus in the Greek is spelled I-E-S-O-U-S, and it's pronounced
Jesus or Jesus in our language.
In an Arabic tongue, it would be pronounced Jesus or in a Spanish tongue.
So, you know, a lot of these people, they don't realize, and you're right, Sonya, I
mean, a lot of these people just get into it by watching YouTube.
Now, for me personally, I got into that movement just because of my friends, you know, it was
the trendy thing, you know, Shabbat Shalom, everybody sort of a thing.
And that's how I had gotten involved with it.
But whenever I would talk to the other people in that movement, they would always say, yeah,
I came through, I came to Torah, you ever heard that phrase, come to Torah?
You know, through like YouTube and, you know, the dads of the families would just tell me
how they didn't know any scripture until they went into the Hebrew roots.
And that's the only reason that somebody will go in the Hebrew roots is not studying enough
and not being close enough to the Lord.
You know what?
We shouldn't be down on anybody who's been through, look, I've been through it.
You know, there was a time in my life where, you know, I was slipping and sliding back
when I was 17 years old and I got messed up.
You know, I was a saved young man.
Sonja was a saved lady when she went into that.
And, but Sonja, you know, I find it interesting, these people, they'll say that you have to
go back to the Hebrew to understand the name of Christ, to understand the true biblical
message, even though there's no evidence for the Hebrew New Testament, none, I mean, there's
over 5,000 manuscripts for a great New Testament, number one.
And then number two, sometimes you'll talk like the most easy Hebraic terms, you know,
because they'll say, well, you can't understand the Bible unless you understand the Hebrew.
And you'll say, okay, well, Baruch atah Adonai, Eloheinu Melekala, you know, just real basic
Hebrew stuff.
And they look at you like you're in the headlights.
They don't even know what you're talking about.
And so I kind of find that to be interesting, but Sonja, would you talk a little bit about
the, let me pull it up here.
I had all my questions here.
Was any of the people in the movement, like afraid that they were going to like lose their
salvation if they gave up keeping the Torah?
I mean, did you ever run into that?
Cause that's something I ran into just before I left.
Yeah, a lot.
It was a lot.
It was that was the catch 22 you see, they, I don't know how they do it, but they somehow
say, no, we understand grace, you know, but it doesn't mean we're become lawless.
It's almost, they take it from one extreme hyper grace, which is, you know, clearly around
in our churches and they take it to the next extreme, which is complete legalism.
And there isn't that middle ground and people, I mean, I could see, and I could sense that
there were people within, because again, our fellowship was mostly online and there was
this thing that would happen every Friday night called Torah talk time.
And it was a, one of the Torah movement groups online, it's mostly an online ministry.
It's another thing to have a very small congregation, very small, but online is quite big now.
And so we would all get together online every Friday night, Shabbat Shalom, everybody.
And then we would have this two way sort of texting.
It's very odd, very peculiar, but it would gradually, as we would listen to the comments
and the messages that were coming across, it was really about, you are lawless if you
don't honor, respect the laws of God, their, their eternal, you know, Jesus was never a
law breaker.
He was perfect.
He kept Torah.
And it was just, you know, the more you repeat it, the more you think, yeah, you know, I'm
fine.
I'm doing, you know, this is okay.
It was very intimidating actually.
You never hear about the fruits of the spirit walking by faith, not by sight.
That was like, you know, it was very clear that you, you're talking Christian ease if
you say those things, you know, I mean, so I'm having flashbacks, I'm remembering different
things right now.
Yeah.
So Sonia, when you left the Hebrew roots movement, did anybody shun you?
Yes.
I had several people who were my friends at the time.
I lost loads of friends on Facebook.
Majority was that they blocked me, unfriended me, what have you.
And then eventually I was, I just had to go through my friends list and said, this is
wrong.
They're bashing Christians.
This is not from the Lord.
It started when I put a post up looking at the, the Y H V H name, and I was just, you
know, exploring it.
And I saw that name plastered all over Kabbalah, mysticism.
I saw it in some really peculiar old sort of chapels.
And I thought, what is it doing in the, in the pyramid?
You know, there was a lot of symbolism associated with that name and that freaked me out.
I got so terrified.
That was when I began repenting, saying, Lord Jesus, I'm so sorry to come back to you.
And I did the repentance all over again.
I was sharing this information with friends and there was another particular friend and
he was saying, I'm looking into the very same things.
There's something wrong with this.
And so at the time there must've been two or three of us were doing our own study, our
own research.
But as I was putting it on Facebook, that's when these people you see in the Torah community
would come on and just really hound me and harass me.
I was shocked.
But then I stood back and I saw, you know, it's really showing the fruits that Jesus
said, you will know them by their fruits.
And again, when I'm, when I'm saying this, I'm not painting the whole movement with the
same brush.
There's some really wonderful people within the group.
The movement I've made some lovely friends who have now, thank God, praise the Lord,
have left the movement.
So when I went and did this video, why I left the Hebrew roots movement, it helped.
I just, I thank God for him using me in that manner.
I was very upset at the time.
I don't know if you've seen that video.
I was very upset.
I was angry.
I was upset.
And, but that video, the Lord used it and people have said, that's a confirmation.
I knew there was something wrong.
And then gradually more and more people were coming, sending me messages, saying that I
knew there was something wrong with it.
I would, that was a confirmation to me and they went back to Jesus and they felt peace.
It was like, Oh, thank God.
You know, we felt safe once again, because it was very unsafe at that time.
But now, yeah, I mean, I think I have probably four, five people that were still in that
movement who have since just broken away from the whole thing and just really gone back
to their first love.
Hey Matt, and that's what we're in this for.
And that's what this movie is about, folks.
We want to see people, you know, return to Christ.
And I'm going to be honest, Sonja, most of the people that I met, pretty much all of
the people that I met in the Hebrew roots movement were just unsaved people.
People that didn't believe the gospel, a lot of them didn't even believe in the deity of
Christ.
You know, a lot of them would reject eternal salvation.
And so, Sonja, what's your message to the Hebrew roots movement?
If you have, you know, one solid thing that you can say to the people in the Hebrew roots
movement to just encourage them to come to Christ, what would be that thing that you
would tell them?
The thing is, I understand, you know, where they're coming from.
I was there, you know, I know in their heart of hearts, they really want to please God.
This is how it is.
You start off, you really, you really genuinely really want to serve the Lord in the best
way that you know how.
And when you come across preachers and teachers who are saying, yeah, but he Jesus was a Jew,
he did certain things as a Jew, we really need to respect that and honor that, the feast,
the high holy days, the people would have that, you know, that sensitivity to things
of the Spirit, the Holy Spirit, they will be drawn to that because they want to please
him.
You know, at the end of the day, that's why people want to obey and not be lawless, right.
But you know, at the end of the day, we need to understand what is the gospel, you know,
the gospel is missing in this movement if they don't talk about it.
And that should cause red flags.
It's usually just about the two houses.
And that's another thing that pulls people in.
They believe the two houses the divorce, the house of Israel scattered around the world.
Now what's happening now is the awakening, you know, we're all awakening, which is a
false is a heresy is the deception, because the real awakening is when Jesus Christ calls
us and we are born again.
Everyone without Christ is dead with dead, but he gives us life.
That's the awakening, the moment you are dead to your sins, you baptize, you receive the
Holy Spirit, that that's the real awakening.
There is no other revelation since the time of Jesus Christ, there is no new mystical
thing that has now been revealed.
You know, people were to think and remember, we are ending, approaching the end times.
And deception is going to be rife in the end times.
So what is this movement, if it's not a deception in the end times?
Another thing is just go back to the Bible, I really urge people to read the word.
And to just turn off the tele, turn off YouTube, give yourself good one week, just soak yourself
in the New Testament, and then compare it.
For example, in Deuteronomy, God told Moses in chapter 18, about the prophet, the prophet
who was to come.
And it was very clear that this prophet is Jesus Christ, but God said, when he comes,
you must obey him.
Now when Jesus came, the father's voice was heard audibly.
How many occasions?
I believe two occasions at his baptism, and on the Mount of Transfiguration.
He said clearly, and his voice was heard, God the father's voice was clearly heard,
and he said, this is my son, obey him, listen to him, whatever he, even his earthly mother
said, this is my son, listen to him, whatever he says, do it, that is the prophet.
Now he didn't say go back and listen to Moses.
We must obey the words of Jesus Christ, and it's a new commandment he gives us, it's very
clear, it's very clear, and I just urge people to reconsider, to realize that this could
technically be spiritual adultery again.
The very sin that Israel was guilty of, you know, they were betrothed or married to the
husband, but yet they were committing adultery with the idols, pagan idols of the world.
So now people come to Jesus as the husband, because we are dead in baptism, right, it
says in Romans 7, we are raised in new life, but we are joined to Jesus.
Either Jesus is our husband or Moses, you know, you've got to, you've got to differentiate
between the old covenant and the new, it is a new covenant, it's not renewed, God does
a new thing with us, we are new creations now in Christ Jesus.
Yeah, absolutely.
So when you were in the Hebrew Roots movement, was there anything that they would tell you
like beforehand, and then they would like switch it after you were in the movement?
Was there anything that they would say, hey, we believe this doctrine, and then that they
turn around and switch it?
Like one I know of is the idea, one of the guys said that, you know, keeping the Torah
was not a salvation issue, you know, and he told me this like several times, and I'm
like, okay, yeah, no problem, and then he sat down with me, and he goes, you know what,
and he sat down with the whole assembly, and he goes, you know what, who are we kidding?
You know, you know, I know we say that salvation, you know, that this isn't about salvation,
but who are we kidding, guys, I mean, of course, this is the salvation issue, and that's when
I personally knew like, whoa, something is wrong here, just the Holy Spirit inside of
me.
Yeah.
And so, Sonia, like, was there anything that they had said to you before they got you into
the movement to kind of deceive you to get you in and then switch it up?
Well, that was one of the things actually, it's this very thing that you mentioned was
that we want to obey him by doing that we are walking by faith because faith produces
works.
And therefore, if we say we believe in but we don't do the works, then our faith is just
it's just, you know, wind is just air.
But when I read in James, he actually talked about the Ten Commandments being Yeah, you
know, if you if you do one, but you're guilty in another, you're a transgressor.
But I realized that the love that we have for one another is the fulfillment.
So it's contradicting what they were saying, that hold on, we're not meant to disobey the
Torah.
But because we lose our salvation, but it's salvation related at the same time.
Because they keep this again, as another mantra, he who is sinful, or practices sin is lawless
and lawlessness is Torah lessness, they just, they twist the Word of God so much.
It really does the help of the Holy Spirit to discern it where, you know, where the lines
get blurry.
Yeah, yeah, that's wrong.
You know, we're not saved by our works.
But having faith in Jesus causes us to want to obey him, of course, that's why he come
to live in us.
Right?
Well, we should.
Yeah.
I mean, we should do good works.
The Bible says, you know, for by grace, who do you save your faith and that not of yourselves
it is a gift of God, not of works, lest any man should boast.
And the Bible also goes on to say that we are his workmanship created in Christ Jesus
on to good works, which God affording that we should walk in them.
So as Christians, we should do good works.
Now obviously, in the scriptures, there's instances where people did a lot of bad works
and you know, Saul himself, King Saul, the first king of Israel, ended up falling on
his own sword and a lot of Hebrew readers will say, well, King Saul is in hell, he lost
his salvation, the Spirit departed from him.
But before that happened, Samuel looked at Saul when Samuel was risen from the dead and
he said, Saul, tomorrow at this time, you're going to be with me.
So Samuel, the Bible says to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.
Samuel was with the Lord.
And Samuel said, Saul, look, you messed up, you did some wrong things.
And so because of this, God's going to have to take you home.
And so that's one of the common themes of the Hebrew roots movement that I've seen is
this idea that you can just lose your salvation.
But anyways, moving on from that, Sonia, I think we're about at the 30 minute mark, so
we'll go for about 15 more minutes.
Do you have any stories of like your experience within the Hebrew roots movement that you'd
like to share just with people?
What I'm thinking about is that when I'm remembering, I don't know if I got a particular story as
such, I'm just thinking of the whole scenario.
There was an occasion where I went to Colorado to see this particular ministry that was celebrating
Sukkot.
And I just wanted to see how they actually did it.
You know, it was all about camping and outdoors.
And but the weather was really bad.
So they had to cancel the outdoor camping, but actually being with them in those few
days was really it felt like I was in Jerusalem, to be honest.
It was everyone just looked Hebrew, the way they the clothes they wore, the way they
spoke, the way they worshiped, how they blew the shofars.
It was like when I look back now, I'm like, oh, my goodness, what was I in?
I was what is this?
This is Gentiles thinking they're Jews.
It's, you know, the Torah was never meant to be for the Gentiles.
That's the whole point of it could be going out into all the world.
You know, it was I mean, there were interesting conversations that we would have this the
worship songs were all in Hebrew.
I felt like I just don't know enough, I need to really learn this stuff, you know, is I
need to know the lingo, I need to get the right sort of tassels.
Where do I hang these things?
It was like everything was exterior, external, outward.
Right. Yeah, and that's one of the things that I had done as well, I had some like really
long zit zits, they call them zit zits, folks.
And I remember having these ones in my one friend, he had these zit zits that just went
all the way to the ground, drug on the ground.
I'm like, man, what in the world?
I mean, but the Bible says, you know, Jesus said, you've done these things to be seen
of man. And the Bible says, Jesus said, when you pray, enter into your closet, you know,
and speak to the Father alone.
You know, I'm paraphrasing that verse, but the Bible says, do not pray as the heathen
do. And, you know, the Jewish people, you know, from a biblical standpoint, from what
the Bible says about them, you know, they're really no different than the heathen.
And a lot of the stuff that they practice is based in heathenism, you know, even when
they left Egypt, they had adapted a lot of Egyptian practices.
Obviously, the Egyptians had false gods.
Well, obviously, Aaron and the guys from Israel decided, well, you know what, let's
make, you know, these calves and let's make a golden calf and let's worship it, you
know, instead of the Lord God.
And so, you know, the Jews are doing the same thing today.
They're taking things out of Egypt and applying them themselves.
It's amazing how many of them believe in like evolution and all the false science.
But the reason being, you know, and the reason that they don't believe the gospel is
because the Bible says their foolish heart was darkened and the Bible says a lot of
these people, you know, they didn't want to retain God in their knowledge.
And the Bible says God gave them over to a reprobate mind.
But that's another subject.
So, Sonia, with these last few minutes here, was there anything that you wanted to say,
just on the fly, anything that's come to your mind during the interview?
I'm just thinking on the words of Jesus Christ, you know, from Matthew Chapter five
onwards, we know that, you know, the Sermon on the Mount that he gave, it's when we
read and just just listen to what he's saying, we know that what he was speaking was
not Torah. It was very different, it was a very radical thought.
And I think that's the reason why many of the scribes and the Pharisees were.
They're always poking at him, poking, trying to catch fault with him, which shows me
that actually what he brought was a new covenant, it was a new way of doing things.
And I think that the uniqueness in Christ Jesus really I mean, it says everything to
me. And I would just urge people to really stop and think and just go back to the word
of God, like I said earlier, and not be persuaded or sort of enticed into listening
to man's opinion.
There's one particular teaching out there that for me was crucial.
It was monumental in getting me deceived.
And it was Jim Staley's teaching the identity crisis, which is an oxymoron, because
this, in fact, is the real identity crisis where Gentiles are now thinking they are
obliged to keep the law of Moses.
And and I don't mean to be mocking, it's just it's very ironic.
Just let's go back to the word of God is the simplicity in Christ, you know, is.
Right, I mean, the Bible says in Corinthians chapter 11, the Bible says in verse three,
it says, But I fear less by any means, as the serpent beguile thee through his
subtlety. So your mind should be corrupted from the simplicity that's in Christ.
So there is simplicity in Christ.
And one of the things that I don't know if you notice this or not, Sonia, but since
we're on the topic, one of the things that I noticed about the Hebrew movement is a lot
of times they would use completely different calendars and nobody could agree on which
day was the Sabbath in many cases or which day was the new moon, which calendar to use.
Some thought certain calendars were pagan.
Did you ever run into that in your experience with the Hebrew roots?
Absolutely. And in fact, that was another one of the things that reminded me so much of
Islam, because that's the lunar religion.
You know, there's the lunar they follow the pattern of the moon and they keep their holy
days according to the moon.
And it was it was I'm like, so how people do in Sabbath in Australia, you know, what's
and that got me looking into other aspect of the Sabbath.
I went to the book in Nehemiah and I saw that actually the Sabbath seems to be only
kept in the land of Israel.
You can't be kept outside of it.
It's just just it's nice that people want to respect that day if they want to highly
esteem one day above another.
That's fine. That's your own personal thing.
But don't be enforcing that thing on other people, especially on the Gentiles.
It's very clear in the Book of Acts.
But yeah, the calendar thing.
Yeah, it was and not even that it was there's a teacher at this come up with his own
Bible, isn't he?
The Sefer. But it's crazy.
The language was lost.
It was more Syrian.
If we look at most of us who might love the Bible, we have a strong concordance.
In there, it clearly says it's Chaldean Assyrian.
It's not it's not Hebrew.
What the Hebrew they think they know.
It's not. It's Assyrian.
This is Syrian, Chaldean type of Hebrew.
It's it's it's just like evolution of language.
It's no big deal. It happens.
But to them for them to say, no, this is the Hebrew.
It's a delusion, you know, one one nine ministries again is another one that keeps
distorting the word of God.
Did Paul really say that?
But did Jesus really mean that, you know, it's what Satan did with Eve in the garden.
Have God really said?
It's very dangerous and it's not a joke, it's really, really people are turning their
back on the Lord Jesus without realizing it, you know, and I'm just praying that more
people would wake up.
The Lord is coming soon.
We can't be caught up in deception, not now.
The hour is late. It's very late.
Yeah, absolutely. Wow.
Yeah, it reminds me of a lot of false teachers that I used to hear about, and sometimes I
occasionally listen to them.
One was Lex Meyer.
I don't know. Are you familiar with Lex Meyer?
Yeah. So he was he did a series recently on like the idea that you could lose your
salvation or just really perverted stuff that he was preaching.
And also there's Zach Bauer.
I know that you're probably familiar with him.
And so, you know, there's a lot of deception out there and it's these guys that are
leading this movement. You know, Jesus said, hey, it's been better than a millstone
were hung about their neck and they were drowning deep to see, you know, so Jesus was
very serious about, you know, dealing with these guys appropriately.
And and so I think we're going to go ahead and start closing this thing out.
You've been a great guest.
It's been really good being able to interview you.
Sonia, did you have any closing remarks or even another story that you'd like to share?
Anything that happened to you while in the movement?
Just anything in the closing moments here?
There was something that came to mind was another thing that I think is very important
to remember is that all the the passage in Romans 11 about being grafted in.
And I believe that that has also been misinterpreted.
I believe it's actually Jesus is the vine abiding him.
We're grafted in him, not in the people, not grafted into Israel.
He's Jesus and he's our vine.
We are grafted into him, Jew and Gentile, male and female, slave and bond.
You know, we're all one in him.
And I love that whole parable gives on 15.
I think that he is divine.
It's him. We get our nutrients from him, not from Israel.
It's ridiculous to think how can a nation supply life?
We have Jesus is beautiful.
He's bringing people in from every tribe, tongue, nation, people group into the kingdom.
You know, it's a very multicultural kingdom, you know, in a way.
So Jesus is the vine.
We're grafted into him, not into Israel.
And I think that's the Holy Spirit will reveal these truths eventually.
In Jesus name, Amen.
All right, awesome.
Well, Sonia, thank you so much for coming on.
It's been great.
And if you guys have any questions for Sonia, feel free not to put them in the chat today,
because this was just an interview for the movie coming out.
But if you want to put them in the comments below, I'm sure she'd be more than happy to answer those.
With that being said, we'll go ahead and close out this live stream, guys.
Thanks for tuning in. God bless.