I'm going to talk to Pastor Steven Anderson. Pastor Anderson, how are you?
Great, how are you?
Good, long time, no talk. And it's good to talk to you again.
Okay, Steven, I mean, look, it's a very controversial thing to say in the year 2014 that a woman should be chained to the kitchen sink and that a man should be doing out all the work, you know, and when he comes home his wife obeys. Is that really the way it should be?
That, you know, besides the chain, that's absolutely how it should be. And, you know, whether that's controversial or not, that's what the Bible teaches. So, if anybody's going to claim to be a Bible-believing Christian, then they would have to have that type of philosophy.
For example, the Bible says in Titus 2, it says that they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children, to be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.
So, right there in Scripture, it says that women should be obedient to their husband, they should be keepers at home, you know, they should be the housekeeper, they should take care of the house, guide the house, the Bible says.
Okay, well, let's get your background, by the way. You work, you're also a pastor as well, part-time, but you do work and you've got an army of children. How many children have you got?
My eighth child is due any day now. Actually, I'm pastoring full-time now. I was working and pastoring, I was juggling both, but now the church has grown a lot, so now I'm just pastoring full-time.
Okay, do me a favour and just move your head slightly, Stephen, where you're kind of losing you in and out there a little bit, okay?
And your wife is a full-time mum, so to speak, and always has been a full-time mother.
Exactly, ever since we've been married, she's never had a job.
Okay, and would you be horrified if she decided she wanted a career or that's something she chose to do? For example, I'm sure she's a very educated woman because I know she homeschools your children. Would you be horrified if she said, I want to go into a teaching career or something like that?
I would be absolutely horrified, but thank God that would never happen.
You seem very sure about that, Pastor. I hope it doesn't knock at your door someday. Alright, so, and the reason, I mean, would it give her a little bit of freedom, because some people would say that you're personally controlling your wife. Do you believe you're controlling her?
Absolutely not, because women don't have more freedom in the workforce, they have less freedom in the workforce. For example, my wife doesn't have to clock in and clock out every day for me. I don't have CCTV cameras pointed at her, she doesn't have to wear a hairnet and a name tag, and I don't have her sign all kinds of documents about all the rules she's going to follow.
But any woman who goes out into the workforce is going to have a boss telling her what to do, and really, women have less freedom in the workforce than my wife does. I mean, my wife has jobs and things that she needs to get done each day. She has to care for the children, homeschool, clean the house, and cook, but she can really do it on her own terms. I'm not standing over her, you know, making sure she does it a certain way. I'm not micromanaging her.
But you'd be disappointed if she didn't do it properly, wouldn't you?
Well, sure, but thank God she's an excellent homemaker, she's a wonderful cook. I've never tasted food better than what my wife cooks, so she really is an exemplary homemaker, she does a good job with the children, cleaning the house, and it's very fulfilling work.
Okay, I mean, what do you say to the modern woman? I don't want to go as extreme as the feminist, but the modern woman who has a career, who has everything, who basically says, you're not allowing your wife equal rights. Your wife is not equal in society because she's not allowed to make those choices anymore. The day you married her, you basically took those choices away from her.
Exactly, and I would say, yes, I agree with that, because no, my wife does not have equal rights, she does not have an equal place in society, and when she married me, she, you know, part of the vows, when you get married in America, I don't know if it's like this over there, is to love, cherish, and obey. I know a lot of, you know, marriage ceremonies are cutting that out of the vows.
But they do it over here, yeah. Obey?
Yeah, to love, cherish, and obey, till death do us part, and so, you know, she doesn't have the right to do whatever she wants. I mean, the Bible teaches that wives are supposed to obey their husbands, and that husbands are supposed to love and care for and be good to their wives.
And your wife obeys, basically, as far as you're concerned. I know many people over here, when they take the vows, they do take the word obey out. It's a bit old school now, but obviously not in your terms. But if your wife, your wife basically has to obey you when it comes to, and I don't want to get, you know, too risky about this, but when it comes to, say, having sex, do you expect your wife to have sex with you? Is that expected?
Absolutely. And, you know, the Bible makes it crystal clear in 1 Corinthians, chapter 7, that neither the husband nor the wife has the right to deny their spouse, you know, sex. That both, basically, you know, whoever wants to, you know, the other one has to go along with it.
That's what the Bible teaches, that when you're married, that's part of getting married.
Well, I must go back to Christianity and introduce the Bible to my wife every now and again. All right. And so what happens if she's not in the humor, if she's got a headache?
Well, tough, you know, and sometimes I might not be in the mood, but, you know, that's life, you know. It's not about just pleasing yourself. I mean, life is about, you know, also doing things for other people.
And so, obviously, if you're going to have a good marriage, you can't just be selfish. And if, you know, if your wife has a need in that area, you have to fulfill it. And if the husband has a need in that area, then it should be fulfilled.
And then there'd be a lot less adultery and, you know, people looking at pornography if they could actually have a normal relationship with their spouse.
I know a lot of people listening tonight are going to say, you know, you're living in the Stone Age. And I'm pretty sure, Pastor Anderson, you're quite used to being told that you're living in the 1950s.
And certainly that was the way in this country maybe 50, 60 years ago. But there's very few people live with those ideals now. Why do you think that is? Is it because just time has moved on? Because we're becoming more secular, I suppose.
But have people, you know, is your opinion on a little bit of Neanderthal?
Well, no. I mean, my opinion on this is timeless. It has nothing to do with the 1950s. It's eternal. It's God's word. And the reason why you're seeing less and less people living this way is just because our society is getting more godless and wicked and we're getting away from the Bible.
And not only that, but even in Bible-believing churches, even Baptist churches like I myself am a Baptist, you don't hear these scriptures preached very often because the pastors are afraid to preach what the Bible actually says. So a lot of people have never even heard these verses.
Well, that's because what they're saying doesn't fit in with what most people do and it wouldn't be a very popular thing to say. And a lot of people sit there and go, well, look, this guy is telling us that the wife should stay at home, do all the work at home, I go to work. It's very traditional and it sounds a bit nutty in this day and age and that's probably why maybe they don't preach it anymore.
Well, then maybe these pastors need to sit down and shut up and get an honest job and let somebody get behind the pulpit who actually believes the Bible. I mean, what kind of a preacher is going to get up behind the pulpit and then censor parts of the Bible that they don't agree with?
I mean, you know, if he signed up for the job of being a Bible-believing Christian pastor, then it's his responsibility to preach the Bible and to preach all of the Bible. And he needs to go get a different job then if he's not willing to do that.
Not a popularity contest.
Well, we have four boys and three girls and the one that's on the way is another boy.
Okay, so the girls are going to be outnumbered here, certainly. Are you going to be teaching your girls and instilling that in your young girls that their role in life is to please their future husband? Is that something you'll be instilling in them as well?
Absolutely, and that's something that my wife would be instilling in them and that's something that God's Word teaches. So, yeah, they definitely learn that.
Alright, look, if you want to give us a call, you can. The number is 1850 410 494, 1850 410 494 or you can text us at 53544. Now, I want to hear from people who actually agree with Stephen Anderson as well, by the way.
If there's anybody out there who agrees that a woman's place is in the home, I'd like to hear from you too. You can text us as well at 53544 here at Classic Hits. I want to go to Ralph, you're in Dublin. Ralph, you're on Classic Hits. How are you?
How are you, Niall? How are you this evening?
Good, I'm good, Ralph. What do you think of what Pastor Anderson says? A woman's place is in the home.
I think the pastor's a very lucky man that he's got me on here and not one of your regular ladies like Tara.
Right, okay. He's lucky we're starting with you, in other words. Is that what you're saying?
He's very lucky to start with me. I'll go very easy on him. Now, the Americans have a saying, and the saying is you live your life like you're in a Norman Rockwell picture. Norman Rockwell is a pastor who knows as an artist.
He painted pictures of American life in the 50s, where the mum stayed in the home and baked the apple pie and the dad went out to work.
What was that music? Do you remember that music?
Am I right? That's the way it is. That's the way they all think. Fortunately, now things have changed now. I come from a generation where we left school at 14, we got married at 18, we had a child by the 19th.
Thankfully, things have changed. Women want a career, they want to start their children later in life.
But have they changed for the better or the worse? Well, the worse according to the pastor, but in your eyes, has it changed for the better?
No, I honestly think it's changed for the better. Women can get a career, women can be educated. I thought it was very sad the other evening when I was watching Michael D there in London with all those educated doctors and lady nurses.
I mean, this country is now educating these women and we're drip-feeding them abroad, you know. I just think it's very sad. It's a wonderful thing to see women educated.
But I can't agree with the pastor there and also his views on the Bible and that, you know, a woman has to obey her husband. It's a man's right to take her if he wants sex.
I really find that a very strange attitude coming from the pastor.
You can respond to that, David, if you want to. I mean, the fact that you can, whatever he says he takes her.
Well, you know, I find it pretty strange that men are married to women that refuse to go to bed with them, you know, for weeks or months on end.
I mean, that seems like a pretty weird lifestyle to me and it seems like the lifestyle that I'm getting from the Bible seems pretty normal and natural.
And I say things have dramatically changed for the worse. Look around our society, you know, sexually transmitted diseases are at an all-time high.
There are all these school shootings. There's more violent crime than there was in the 50s.
Our whole society has gone down the toilets morally. How is that an improvement?
And by the way, people used to live better financially on one income back in the 50s in the United States than they do now on two incomes.
Well, there's many reasons for that. It's not just because women are going out to work. The cost of living has just generally increased.
It hasn't been helping the economy because the economy is worse now than it was in the 1950s.
Yeah, but it's not a good analogy, Stephen. What you're doing there is you have to understand that lifestyles have changed.
People have two cars. People have larger television sets. People have more, you know, commodities to choose from. They buy more products.
That's why life has become more expensive because lifestyles have changed. People live simpler lives 50 years ago.
I mean, we don't need two cars and a flat screen TV and an iPad, iPod. You know, a lot of that stuff is unnecessary.
And it's not really making our quality of life any better, you know, to have the newest video game console.
And, you know, my wife and I don't have two cars. We share one vehicle. And I ride a bike.
Judging by the lifestyle that your wife has, she doesn't need a car because you don't let her out of the house.
Well, no, she goes out of the house all the time. In fact, she uses the car, you know, as much or more than I do because I actually, I like to ride a bike different places.
It's a good, healthy way to get around. And, you know, there are other ways to live your life than to just buy, you know, three vehicles and a $6,000 TV and all this stuff.
I mean, you know, I'd rather make the sacrifices to have one income, have a stay-at-home wife and mother that cares for the children.
I'd rather do without some of the bells and whistles and without some of the electronic gadgets and, you know, be able to live a happier, more balanced, normal life.
And in relation to, say, for example, what your wife does, how she behaves, how she dresses, do you have an input or a good input into that as well?
Absolutely. I mean, you know, thankfully my wife and I are pretty much on the same page. We both have the same beliefs about how she should dress.
But there have been times when, you know, there was an outfit that I didn't approve of. I told her, you can't wear that out of the house because it's too revealing.
And so I definitely reserve that right.
And that's your right as the husband to be able to tell her that there's too much cleavage there or, you know, that shows off your figure a little bit too much, sure. Yeah.
Exactly. Because, you know, the Bible says the wives are supposed to obey their husbands. So that, you know, that would definitely fall into that category.
How does that sound to you, Ralph? Would you like a wife like that?
Oh, I was married for 35 years now and I'm going to tell you, if I told my wife at the time she had to obey me, I'd be picking myself up off the floor now.
Hold on, why don't we go to Caroline? If you want to give us a call, you can. The number is 18-50-410-494. Caroline, you're in Galway.
How are you doing? How are things?
Caroline, are you losing the plot listening there? Yeah.
Oh, well, you know, can I just challenge you on something, Niall, there? Can I?
Yeah, go ahead.
You know, you open the show there and you're talking about feminism. I just want to ask you, what do you think feminism means?
Do you think it's women pushing for a better, I guess, more of a biased kind of favour in terms of society?
Or do you think it's women that struggle for equal rights?
You know, Caroline, I could have a long discussion about it, but I would love to say that I am a feminist because I'm all in favour of equal rights.
I sure am too.
But the problem is the word feminism has been tarnished by head cases.
Right, but possibly there are a few people out there that will be, let's say, fanatical and we're talking to one guy there that seems to be a little bit Stephen Anderson.
So, hello Stephen there. We're talking to you. You seem to be out there, I guess, on an edge there.
So, I think in every group of people in society that are labelled, we do have people that are maybe slightly more fanatical about things, about ideas.
But I just want to say there, if I can just correct one thing, Niall, feminism is the advocacy of women's rights on the ground of equality of the sexes.
It's not women pushing for dominance or pushing for favour.
Okay, well then you need to say that to the head cases that are out there pushing the agenda too far.
We do, I know.
And many of those discriminate against men.
Basically, and I talked earlier on about this, you know, gender quotas in the workplace, which is a completely ridiculous idea.
It should be the best person for the job. It doesn't matter what sex they are.
Yeah, I agree.
Let me go back to Stephen Anderson. So, Stephen Anderson, he has very traditional views on life.
Is there anything wrong with his views on life, Caroline?
No, there's nothing wrong with his views on life as long as he's not harming anybody.
And I think if you are going to adopt a philosophy for yourself and your family that's holistic,
that's based on people living in a harmonious relationship where you listen to each other and you kind of put ideas forward
and you go with different people's ideas and not just one person's all the time, then it's a good thing.
But I think what happens, and if I may say, Stephen, you just sound like you're repeating yourself all over again from last time, if I may say so.
And after reading a little bit about you as well, you seem to be so opinionated against people of different denominations,
be it women who are dressing, as you would say, like whores or inappropriately.
It may be gays. It may be, in this case, women who go out to work.
Now, I just don't think you have an awful lot of love in you if you're going to point hate at those kind of people.
And that would really – it doesn't strike me like you have a lot of balance in your own home.
So I think you do, although you have denied it, you definitely have control over your house, over your home, and over your wife and over your children.
So it's okay coming in and saying this is how you think it should be.
But, you know, if you scratch the surface, I mean, you can't answer for your wife and say how happy she is.
You can't answer for how your children are going to grow up and what choices they will make.
But the most important thing, surely, would be to have an all-loving approach to people, their differences, everything,
and not say because you're not wearing these shoes, because you're not walking this way, because you're not doing it the way I would like you to do it,
I don't have any time for you or I don't have any love for you, because I think you're just building yourself a very dangerous position there, I have to say to you.
Okay, Stephen, let Stephen respond to what you're saying.
Okay, so Stephen, I think we all agree that we should have control over our children to a certain extent and we have to obviously guide our children.
But when it comes to your wife, she is an adult.
Absolutely, it's a to and fro thing.
Okay, let him answer that, go ahead, sorry Stephen.
You know, I think that the caller completely misunderstands me because I definitely do not hate people of other denominations or hate women who work.
I definitely love people of other denominations and love women who go to work.
In fact, we even have women in our church that work a job outside the home for whatever reason.
So I'm not talking about hating anybody here, I'm just talking about what the Bible commands us to do and how to live our lives.
And obviously no one's perfect, but this is what the Bible tells us to do and our society would be a lot better if we obeyed it, it has nothing to do with hating people.
But you did refer to it, the last time I think you were on, we had a woman called in whose daughter was coming back from some concert she was at and she was 16 or 17 and she was in a short skirt and you referred to her as a prostitute or a whore.
No, I said that she was dressed like a whore, that's just a fact. I mean, a woman wearing a miniskirt is dressed like a whore.
That's just a statement of fact, that's not even my opinion. If you go to the street corner and find whores...
Well no, it's not my opinion. Go look at whores on the street corner, they will be wearing party dresses, miniskirts, and you know, that's the uniform.
So it's not my opinion. I mean, what if a guy showed up in coveralls and I said he's dressed like a mechanic?
You know, what if a guy showed up in a firefighter suit and I said he's dressed like a fireman?
I mean, when women are dressing exactly like prostitutes on the street corner, that's not my opinion, that's just a fact.
Well, it is your opinion actually. A lot of men would find that offensive, let alone women.
It's outrageous that you think that that's an equal comparison, to say a man is dressed like a fireman is on the equal basis of saying a woman is dressed like a prostitute.
I mean, how dare you? At the end of the day, women are prostitutes because men pay for sex and half the time they're men that may be going to church or may be living a very respectable lifestyle and having a flip side of that and living a double life.
I didn't realise there was a uniform actually, Stephen, because from what I'm aware, the last time I interviewed a prostitute in the studio here, she wasn't wearing a miniskirt and she certainly wasn't wearing the long stockings and the boots.
She was wearing a pair of jeans.
Well, she was off work. She was obviously off work at that time.
You have this idea of a prostitute in your head of the girl that stands on the street corner waving down the car. That's not really the way prostitution works nowadays. I think most of them work from websites.
Okay, but here's the thing. You even mentioned the stockings and the boots because you know and I know that that's the attire of a prostitute.
But you're painting a stereotypical picture. Just because another girl wears stockings and boots in a miniskirt doesn't necessarily mean she's a prostitute.
I didn't say she was a prostitute. I just said that she was dressed like a prostitute.
I mean, I could put on a firefighter suit. It wouldn't make me a firefighter, but I'd be dressed like one.
And here's the thing. The Bible says in Proverbs 7 verse 10, Behold there met him a woman with the attire of a harlot and settled apart.
So the Bible says that women can be dressed like harlots. It doesn't necessarily mean that they are one, but that they're dressed like that.
But you wouldn't let your wife dress like a harlot?
Absolutely not. You know, my wife has respect for herself and I have respect for my wife.
So what are you saying? If a woman goes out on a night out with the girls, you know, in the center of the city and she has a short, you know, sexy dress on and she's got a bit of cleavage showing and she looks sexy and she looks good.
She's no respect for herself?
Well, what is she doing? Going out to a bar to get drunk and go to bed with some guy that she's not married to?
You're making a lot of assumptions there. Maybe she's just going out for a good night out and she wants to feel attractive.
Well, she doesn't have to dress like a complete slut just to go out and, you know, spend time with her friends.
I mean, if a woman's dressing that way, you know, she's obviously trying to get attention from other men.
And it's the wrong kind of men that she's trying to attract and, you know, it's going to end up the wrong way after alcohol is involved in everything else.
I mean, it doesn't make any sense to say that you're going to dress like that and you're going to go out and you're going to go to bars but that you're not going to go out and commit sin.
Does your wife actually get to go out? I mean, do you ever, yourself and your wife, ever go out for a meal or go out on a night out and get a babysitter in?
Well, my wife and I go out to dinner together all the time and we go places together and sometimes my wife will even go to dinner with, you know, one of the other ladies at church
and then they'll go out and have a steak dinner somewhere or something like that.
You've got to say that like it's a big deal.
They don't dress up like, they don't dress like hookers and go to a bar though and they don't drink any alcohol.
Okay, well hang on for a second. I want to go to Ellie. Ellie, how are you doing? You're on Classic Kids.
Hiya. How are you doing Ellie?
Ellie, what do you think of this notion that a woman's place is in the home?
I think a woman's place is exactly where a woman wants her place to be.
So if a woman is happy to stay home and have kids, that's fine.
If a woman wants to go out and have a career, that's fine because we have these things called brains and we can think for ourselves.
Do you know what I mean? We don't need to be told by some man where our place is in society, you know?
Yeah, well I mean, well the pastor believes that because she married him, she signed a document saying she would obey him, she is a Christian just like him, that she should go by those rules and they're the rules that their family live by.
I feel very sorry for her. I really do, do you know? I'm actually gobsmacked by some of the stuff he's saying and I'm trying not to laugh but I just wonder like, is he for real?
I mean, I have a dog that can bark. I can bring him on tomorrow night if you want to. He'll probably make more sense than what that man is.
And I mean, as for wearing short skirts, you're a prostitute, you wear a short skirt. I dress to the seasons and in the summer when it's warm, I wear a short skirt if it's hot. Do you know what I mean?
That doesn't make me a prostitute or a sloth.
Well it does. According to Stephen Anderson, it is. You are a sloth.
It just makes you look like one. It doesn't make you one but you look like one when you dress that way.
So you're saying I look like a sloth in the summertime when I wear clothes that are suitable for the weather. Should I go round in like long dresses all summer long, you know, really hot and uncomfortable because you think I look like a sloth?
Well, maybe your dresses are just made out of the wrong fabric because, you know, a long skirt can be just as cool as a short skirt.
But, you know, feeling sorry for my wife is ridiculous because my wife actually lives a good life. She has a nice house, a nice vehicle. She eats good food every day.
And in fact, you know, if she wants to sleep in, she can because, you know, I'm out at work paying the bills. She doesn't have to go to work. She doesn't have to try to juggle kids and work and juggle everything.
You know, go to her blog. She has a blog. It's called Are They All Yours? You know, because that's what everybody asks her when they see her out with all the children. They ask her, you know, are they all yours?
So look up her blog and see how happy she is and see all the fun things. She does a lot of fun things and lives a really good life. You can check it out on her blog.
I actually don't go on the internet. So no, I'm not going to check out her blog. I mean, I hope she's as happy as you think that she is.
I'd hate to think that, you know, maybe underneath it all she isn't as happy and she's just doing everything to please you and your standards to life.
Can I ask you a question? Because you'd be an expert on this and you're going to have to forgive me for being a bit of a pagan. When was the Bible written again? Can you remind me, please?
Yeah, I'll remind you. It was written before the world was even created because the Bible says in the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God.
All right. So this Bible was written way back then and it still actually fits into today's society and life?
Still relevant as a pastor.
Is this?
It's more relevant than today's newspaper.
There were no things ten years ago that were relevant today and these were just minor things, but you want everyone's life to follow this book that was written, when did you say, before?
Two thousand years ago.
Before the world was even created, that's when it was written.
Pastor, where did you get that from? Two thousand years ago, I thought, but whatever, yeah.
Well, I got it from the Bible. The Bible says in the beginning was the Word.
How can the Bible say when it was written? Because that wouldn't make any sense. The Bible was written two thousand years ago, but according to you, because you're a creationist, obviously, the world started six thousand years ago, yeah?
Actually about six thousand three hundred years ago, but yeah, sixty three hundred years ago, right.
Just in case you didn't notice that, the scientists are all wrong.
Okay.
Of course they are. They're also wrong about vaccines and they're also wrong about cancer treatments and they're also wrong about a lot of other things, just like they've been wrong throughout history, like when they were putting leeches on people, you know, like they put leeches on George Washington only, what, two hundred and some years ago to drain the blood out of his body.
A lot of doctors and scientists have always believed a lot of stupid things.
Yeah, we've got a lot of priests believe a lot of stupid things when they put their hands on people's heads and exercise the devil out of them as well.
Yeah, they used to drill holes in people's heads. Exactly.
Sorry, Ali, what did you say?
I mean, what about, I think, lobotomies? You know, that wasn't very good science, was it?
Well, I think we were less intelligent, Stephen, is probably the answer to that, isn't it? We were less intelligent.
During the war, we had people peeing on each other's legs while they were amputating them with saws. You know what I mean? We were less intelligent and educated. We're a little bit more intelligent, a little bit more educated now.
Well, you know what? We think we're more intelligent, but in a lot of ways, we're not. And a lot of the things that scientists and doctors teach now are still wrong.
I'm not even going to get into the vaccine argument and I'll do it another night with you, right?
You know what? All scientists have been wrong about a lot of things throughout history and then later they're proven wrong.
Okay, well, I won't get into the vaccine argument. But, Ali, in relation to what he's saying, okay, there was research done recently, okay, there was numerous studies done, by the way, to reveal that a traditional woman in the West is dying out.
This is the traditional, I suppose, in relation to family values, where, you know, the husband goes out, he's the breadwinner, the woman looks after the home.
And they believe, according to this research, that the one thing that is suffering is family values and children. Would you agree with that?
Well...
Oh, absolutely.
Sorry, Ali. Would you agree?
I don't know. I think that's a very... I suppose in a way it is, the traditional way of life is going, but that's progress as well, to some extent.
You know what I mean? We're not the same as our kids.
Progress is always...
Every generation is different.
Progress is not always a good thing, by the way.
Pardon?
Progress is not always a good thing.
I mean, for example, I'm not going to be sexist here and I don't care who goes to work. It could be the man or it could be the woman. I don't really care, right?
But the point is that, you know, having, say, three children, and I know somebody who does this, or four children or whatever, dumping them in a crèche at, you know, seven o'clock in the morning, collecting them in their pajamas at seven o'clock in the evening, and not seeing them, and not raising them up to the age of five or six when they actually eventually have to go to school, I mean, really isn't being a parent, is it?
Well, I think each their own. I mean, what I personally did was, when mine was small, I didn't go working until they were at school.
Good, yeah.
And, like, I was just discussing this with my partner and, like, I was saying, you know, I have two daughters, I mean, they're teenagers now, but when they were young, I couldn't justify not going to work because, you know, I dropped them to school, I'd be home, everything was done by half ten in the morning.
Yeah, but that's fine. But I think the first three or four years of their lives are their formative years.
I never, they never went to child minders or crèches when they were small. That was my personal choice and I was lucky enough to be able to do that. I worked around them so that they didn't have to be left with child minders. That was my choice.
Well, hang on a second, I've got lots of people who want to come on. Stay there, by the way, Caroline and Ellie, if you can. Lots and lots of texts coming in. Somebody says, dear, oh dear, oh dear, the pastor should really get real. The Bible was written before the world was created. Seriously, he's doing my head in.
And a person says, will you ask him, does he think the world is still flat? And a person says, and another nut job comes on the show. Okay. Somebody says, no, bring the pastor's wife on. Well, she's not there, I don't know. I don't know where she is. I'm not going to ask my dad because I didn't prepare him to do that, so I'm not going to ask him to do that.
Another person said, is this pastor, is it the pastor who believes and promotes the development of Cain, whatever it is, with the government by Bible principles? That comes in from Siobhan in Cork.
Another person says, a level-headed, smart, intellectual woman in Tuman society in 2014. What radio station am I listening to? Am I in Ireland? Well done to her. True feminist, wasting your time. She won't get anywhere on this radio show.
Well, I don't know what you're talking about. And somebody else, I think this is the same person who texted a few minutes ago, oh, somebody actually challenged the definition of the word feminism. There's no point. He doesn't know anything about it. I know a lot more about it than you do about it, texter.
And maybe if you want to come on the air and talk about it some nights, you can. The number is 1850, 410, 494. And I'll challenge you to do that because most of these extreme feminists are actually nut cases.
I want to go to Musan, I think it is. Musan, you're in Dublin, you're on Classic Kids. How are you, Musan? Musan, is it?
Musan.
Musan. Hello. How are you, Musan? You're welcome on the air. How are you?
I'm fine, yeah.
What do you want to say?
Actually, I'll just say that the pastor is 100% right regarding to the Muslim as well, that the Muslim has the same belief for the, like, woman as the pastor say, you know?
Because it says in Islam, too. Because the Quran says the same thing.
Yeah, Islam is the same. Because God, you know, God is our creator. And he know how people can live and live their life. If someone like, someone manufactured a car and he come out with the car and he say you have to do this thing with the car, you have to do this thing.
A woman is not a car. Let's be clear about this.
No, no. I'm just giving a simple little bit example.
No, no, no. Don't give me an example comparing a woman to a car. I don't walk into a showroom and buy a woman. So, it's not a fair analogy.
No, no, no. Like, I'm just manufacturing the same for the man as well, not only for the woman. If I'm giving for the man as well, then we all should follow the God. And as far as we going out with the rules of God, so we are filling in different problems.
You know, you are talking about the dresses. Like, in many countries nowadays, they say that, like in France, I have seen on newspaper that they say that you have to not wear such clothes in universities because, or in some place, because it's go to sexual harassment, you know, increase the sexual harassment.
You're saying that a woman shouldn't wear short clothing in case she gets raped?
No, such like dresses which can promote sexual harassment, you know.
Well, surely we should be challenging the rapist first before we challenge the woman, should we not?
Yeah, and the third one is that, I have some poor points that I've done. The third is that many people, many women who are working outside, so there is a lot of problem with their children on the, the, the psychological, you know.
Yeah, but what about, okay, I would agree with you if a parent is not looking after the children, yes, you can have problems. But why can't the husband stay at home?
The husband, like it's, it's a better choice for the woman to stay.
Why?
Because she is physically weak and she is a better thing to do, like.
Oh, gosh, I think it's fair enough now.
Listen to me, just, listen to me, just, she's like, she's betterly cook food or she betterly, like, why a woman is going for nothing because she know how to take care of the people.
She cooks food better?
Oh, okay, alright, yeah.
So she, so the woman, it's better, let me clarify, okay, let me clarify what you're saying was that, okay. It's better for the woman to stay home because she's a better cook, but she's physically weaker and.
Yeah.
Anything else? The chain will fit better around the bottom of her legs to attach to the kitchen sink.
I think the women are interested in jobs on this side, so the government should implement something which can, women can do at their home. In our country, Pakistan, the women can make clothes in home. There's a different type of thing you can do in home.
Yeah, why not? Well, look, we leave Ellie and Caroline at home, baskets weaving all day, so that'd be great, wouldn't it? We get them weaving a few baskets.
Yeah, basket weaving or something like that, something that wouldn't be too strenuous in your brain.
And in some, in many ways, it's better for the women to, like, you know, it's difficult to do work every time morning, go, just stay home and enjoy your life and spend the money of the husband, you know.
So, I want to just go back to Stephen. Stephen, what Muslim is saying is more or less, you know, and I know you're a pastor and you're, you're born, or a Baptist, what you're saying is more or less the same as what it says in the Quran. Would you agree? I mean, would it be similar to Islam?
You know, I'm not an expert on the Quran or Islam, but based on what the caller is saying, it sounds like he's agreeing with the views that I gave from the Bible. You know, these are the views that most people on this planet have had for thousands of years. It's not even just Christians that have lived this type of lifestyle.
Had, but pastor, the key word is had, had, past tense.
But that, but that's because there is an agenda to brainwash and to socially engineer people all over the world to forsake these traditional roles. I mean, you know, multi-billionaires own these big media outlets and the TV and the movies, and all of the media is geared to teach a feminist agenda and to tear down the traditional values of family.
Yeah, but forget about feminism because I don't agree in total with extreme feminism, but what about just equality? That's what I agree with.
But that is feminine, that is feminine.
It used to be when the word came out first, but unfortunately the word has been hijacked by Loonies. But okay, if we take the word feminism as being equality, what's wrong with equality? What's wrong with allowing a woman equal rights and allowing a woman to go out and have a career if that's what she chooses to do?
Here's the thing. Women are of equal value to men. It's not that men are better than women.
To men? Are you listening to yourself? Women are of equal value to men. Would you not say women are of equal value in society?
Yes, they're of equal value in society, but they have different roles, okay? For example, my dishwasher and my washing machine are of equal value.
But one is better at washing clothes, and one is better at washing dishes. It's not that one is better than the other, it's that they have a different function.
And if I put clothes in the dishwasher, and if I put dishes in the washing machine, you know, they'll probably get clean, but it's not going to work very well.
And that's what we're doing today. We're trying to jam a square peg in a round hole.
Sorry Caroline.
Can I come in there, Stephen? I just think maybe you could do with studying people in a bit more depth. I mean, just studying, taking a course in sociology or something.
Because I think you look at people as just one type. Women as one role in life. This is what you need to do. This is your role.
And it's almost like, you mentioned the word brainwashing there. The only thing I'm hearing today that sounds anything remotely like brainwashing is you talking about what a woman's role should be in your own eyes.
Now, I wanted to ask you there a minute ago, do you actually have any daughters, Stephen?
Three daughters, four sons, yeah.
You see, the danger is, and I'll ask you at the very beginning, will you be instilling your views into your children?
By just practicing this and preaching this, you are. And you're setting those girls up for a life that is defining them through what you think they should be, not through what they feel that they need to be themselves.
And that's going to create so much unhappiness in their life. And I don't know if you're aware of that, but it will.
A person has to search for their own identity, what makes them happy. And like Eddie said earlier, the best place for a woman is where she chooses to be.
I couldn't have put it better myself. That's exactly where a woman needs to find herself, where she needs to be.
We need to strip away the layers of what people think we should be and find what we need to be ourselves.
And that goes for men and women alike, and anybody. And I think if anyone sits there and stands there or comes on the phone and says, you need to be this, that and the other.
And we are not machines. People are not machines. We can function, we can do a job, but we are more than that. We are so multidimensional on so many levels.
Well, Musam believes that you're good cooks, but you are a little bit weak, mind you.
Well, do you know something? I'd like to challenge him to a course or something.
Well, is anyone actually disputing that women are physically weaker than men?
I've spoken at the secular college near my house about 25 to 30 times, and often I've spoken on women's roles and men's roles.
And I've issued the challenge that any woman in the audience can come and arm wrestle me, and I will arm wrestle any woman in the audience.
I've had about six or seven take me up on it, and it wasn't even close. And it's not because I'm some kind of a bodybuilder.
It's just that men are stronger than women. Anybody who would dispute that is ridiculous.
That's why in sports they always have to have a separate league for the men and the women. It's just a physical difference.
It's a physical difference. In general, that's true.
I think in general, but there's always going to be exceptions to the rule.
Listen, I have to take a break, but I want you to stay with me. The number is 185410494. Pastor Stephen Anderson is going to stay with me for a little while.
If you want to give us a call and talk to him, you can. The number is 185410494.
The question I'm asking you, is he right? Have we lost family values? Is a woman's place really in the home?
Is this a ridiculous question to be asked in 1914? 2014, it sounds like 1914.
Let's get the bodice out and tie the laces. Text 53544. Does anybody actually agree?
If you agree with Stephen Anderson, and Musan by the way, who is a Muslim and obviously agrees a woman's place is in the home because she's like a car?
You know, you go out and you purchase one and you pick the one you want because they're weaker or they're good cooks and they should stay at home.
Text 53544. Do you believe a woman's place is in the home? Yes or no to 53544.
So with the text coming in, how dare you come out with so much a comment that parents who leave their children, I didn't say leave by the way, I said dump.
Their children in crashes all day isn't proper parenting. Well, explain to me what is parenting about having a child.
Both people are working. I'm not being sexist here. I don't care who stays at home for the formative years of the child's life.
And by the way, there's been so much research done on this. I'm putting a child, if you're working full time, putting a child full time care into childcare from 8 o'clock in the morning in his pajamas and collecting him at 6 or 7 o'clock in the evening before he goes to bed, bringing him home and putting him to bed.
Where's the parenting in that? That's not parenting. That's being a child's taxi service. Now, you want a parent on a Saturday? That's fine.
But I don't think that's parenting. And I think anybody who does that should rethink about having children.
There should be some plan there whereby either one parent can go part time, it doesn't matter, male or female, I don't mind, one parent can go part time and enjoy your life with your children.
You only have them once, they grow very quickly. So I will not, as you suggest, grow up. That's my opinion. If you don't like it, tough shit.
I want to go to Gráinne who wants to talk to him. Gráinne, you're on Classic Kids. How are you? Hello, Gráinne. Go ahead.
Well, it's an absolute mindfield, all of this, because my head is actually spinning with different opinions.
Well, start at the start somewhere. Go on.
Right. Well, I'll start with what I heard first was his relationship with his wife. I do believe that everybody's business is to have the relationship how they see fit.
First of all, whatever makes a couple happy, that's fine by them.
As long as they're both happy, yeah.
As long as they're both happy and as long as it works, fine. That's their own business, you know.
There were so many other points. I'm always really, really scared to listen to people who are religious fanatics of any sort.
The fact that the world was created after the Bible was written, I feel so annoyed by that because of the fact that, yes, science is theoretical and, yes, you can go back 30 years and you can find that what they said was right then is now obsolete, fair enough.
But at the same time, the world was not created by the Bible. The Bible was written by people after the fact, hundreds of years after the fact that Jesus and God and all this came about.
It's a patriarchal system, but it does definitely deal purely with men and their views and find the Bible can be used by anybody in any circumstance and can be translated diversely to soothe anybody and their opinion.
It was written at a time where it was appropriate to behave and do certain things and those kind of things don't really apply to 2014, but I'm sure you can make them apply if you want to.
You can make them apply and you can also, sorry, I don't know if it's a bit crunchy there, you can make them apply to any situation.
I went into a Presbyterian church recently for a piano recital and I read the good news.
Every single page that myself and my kids read was absolutely miserable and it was all about catastrophic events.
You know, so you're talking about the good news, you know, you'd be wondering, you know, but at the same time...
OK, but do you think there's anything wrong with how he lives his life and how he's promoting his life and how he promotes it to others by suggesting, for example, that if you dress in revealing clothes or unmodest clothes, that you're dressing like a slut, that he would obviously instil that in his children.
He doesn't allow his children to watch, and Pastor, correct me on any stage if I'm wrong here, but he doesn't allow his children to watch modern television.
He doesn't allow his children to go to schools with other children. He homeschools them. He doesn't agree with homosexuality.
He would be horrified, I think, if one of his children said they were gay.
Well, that would be a terrible loss to him to actually lose his child because of a viewpoint.
Pastor, am I right in everything I'm saying there, by the way?
Yeah, I mean, look...
Yeah, pretty much. You pretty much nailed it. I don't even own a TV.
Look, I don't have TV myself in my house. I gave it up when September 11 happened because of the fact that I just basically couldn't watch anymore.
But at the same time, that's because we're all musicians in my house, and to be honest, we wouldn't get anything done if the TV was on in front of us. That's our own choice.
Yeah, of course. It's about different reasons.
That's a completely different situation, right? But at the same time, I think when women are demure, it's very attractive.
But at the same time, turning then and saying that somebody is a prostitute because they choose to dress the way they choose to dress is a disgusting tearing of people.
I mean, there's seven billion plus of us in the world, and everybody has their own opinion.
And our opinions are like assholes. Everybody's got one. But it doesn't mean that they're right.
Well, do you not agree with that, Pastor, that at the end of the day, your views on life...
I mean, okay, you said they're based on a book, but you have to understand not everybody believes in that book, okay?
You do, and that's fair enough, and you're entitled to do that, and I respect that, but it is just an opinion.
So why do you believe your opinion is the right one?
Well, it's not just an opinion, and I'm not the only one who believes this book. This book is believed by millions of people all over the world.
Well, not quite as literally as the way you believe it.
Well, how else can you believe it? You either believe it or you don't.
Well, hold on. We don't agree with everything. We don't take the Bible literally.
There's many verses in the Bible, and I'm not going to start quoting them because I don't know them, but I'm pretty sure you know them better than I do.
But there's chapters in the Bible that talk about bringing your brother up to a mountain and throwing him off and sacrificing him.
Man should not lie with man where we live in a world where at least probably 6% of the population are gay, and we should maybe have stoned them to death.
I mean, we don't do those things. You know, this is the real world.
That's because you're just making stuff up. You're just making stuff up about throwing somebody off a cliff.
I mean, that's all just something that you came up with. There's nothing in the Bible that's not true.
Everything in the Bible is right.
Should we stone homosexuals?
And I am not the only one.
Should we stone homosexuals to death?
All of... what?
Should we stone a homosexual to death?
Absolutely. Of course homosexuals should be put to death. That's what the Bible says in Leviticus 2013.
And by the way, throughout history, homosexuals have always been executed in almost all cultures.
In the United States, homosexuals have been executed in the 1600s and 1700s.
In the 1600s and 1700s when we were all stupid and ignorant.
Okay, but even 50 years ago they would put them in a mental institution in the 1950s.
That was because it was considered to be a mental illness because we didn't know any better.
It was only taken out of the DSM in the United States in 1965, I think.
Hold on a second. Homosexuality was not legal in all the United States until 2003.
Or Ireland. Or Ireland, by the way, only in the last 20 years.
That was because we were ignorant and we didn't understand people.
So you act like I'm crazy because I believe how pretty much 90-some percent of the world has believed
for 90-some percent of human history that homosexuality should be a crime.
And even in America it used to be a crime until 10, 15 years ago did they finally repeal all those laws.
But look what religion is doing to the world.
As we speak in Afghanistan, they're trying to push through a bill to keep a religious party happy.
And that bill will allow people to marry children as young as the age of 9 and have sex with them.
Well, that's perverted and disgusting.
And the Bible condemns marrying any woman that is pre-pubescent.
I mean, the Bible clearly states...
Pre-pubescent?
Pardon. Can I say something here?
Yeah, sorry. Go ahead, Rania.
What isn't absolutely perverted and disgusting in the fact that somebody would stand by murder because something doesn't suit them?
I think that is absolutely disgusting. It's abhorrent.
How many religious people out there in the world who stand by murder...
Who can ever say that murder because of opinion is correct?
I don't stand by murder. I've never stood by murder.
But you just said that people should be sold.
Executing criminals is not murder.
Yeah, but again, personally, I'm a criminal.
No, executing criminals is not murder.
And you know what? The Bible says in Leviticus 2013 that if a man lie with mankind,
as he lieth with a woman, even both of them have committed an abomination.
They shall surely be put to death. Their blood be upon them.
By the way, do you know anything, Pastor, about what they call the missing books?
As you know, the Bible was made up of individual books.
But there were many other books, by the way, that weren't included.
Or many other verses that weren't included.
They basically decided which ones they wanted to put in.
And I wanted to watch this documentary about it one night.
And there's a lot more has been written about this man called Jesus, apart from what's actually in the Bible.
And some of the stuff that was left out purposely, because it didn't paint him in a very good light.
And there was one suggestion that he went to bed naked with a boy.
Well, there you go.
Well, you know what? That kind of blasphemous garbage shouldn't even be brought up.
It's not blasphemous garbage. It's a fact.
This was written also in a book that was written at the same time.
Good night! Look, read the Gospel of Thomas. It's the stupidest book ever written.
If anyone reads the Gospel of Thomas, these books are left out of the Bible because they're worthless pieces of garbage.
But hold on. With respect, what makes it more valuable than the Gospel of Paul or John or anybody else?
What makes it more valuable?
Because anybody who reads Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, even secular literature people will tell you that it's the greatest literature that's ever been written.
Because it paints him in a good light? Because it paints him in a good light?
No, because it's the most marvelous book ever written, because it's great literature.
The Gospel of Thomas sounds like it's written by somebody who is stoned out of their mind. It's the dumbest thing I've ever read.
Okay, well hold on for a second. Stay there, please, if you want.
Who do I go to next? Karen, is it? Karen, how are you doing? You're in Cork. You're in Classic.
Thanks, Karen.
Go ahead. What do you want to say?
Is he completely backwards or what? I mean, a while ago he was on a boat. A young one suggested to me that he was a prostitute.
Did he not realize that Mary Magdalene was a prostitute?
That Mary Magdalene, does he not realize that Mary Magdalene was a prostitute?
Well, it was suggested that she was a prostitute.
Well, of course I do, but that's not the point. That doesn't make it right. I could lift all kinds of people in the Bible who did all kinds of sin.
You are talking out of your rare hind.
That's an Irish term, Pastor. You're talking out of your rare hind. It means you're talking out of your ass.
Yeah, well I figured it out.
Okay, sorry. I thought I'd translate for you. Sorry. Karen, what do you think of his notions that a woman's place is in the home?
I had my first son in 1984 as a single parent. I worked, I supported my child. I didn't even meant to support my child.
I am quite a strong, weird woman.
You didn't need a man to support your child?
I didn't need a man. I always worked to support my own child.
And it did, were you with a man? Well, obviously you were when you had sex in the first place.
I actually went on to marry his father.
Yes?
When I got married, his father supported his child, but up until the day I got married, I was the sole breadwinner in my family.
Right, okay. So when you, I'm a bit confused now. So when you met your boyfriend at the time and you obviously conceived the child and had a baby, where was he then?
He walked abroad.
Oh, okay. So he wasn't around, so you were kind of left holding the baby, so to speak?
Well, he was, he came all winter, he walked his job, took him overseas.
Okay. And how long were you on your own then with the child?
Four years.
Okay. Well then you still had a partner, yes, at the time, but it's just that he was working away.
Yes, but I actually...
So you weren't, well then you weren't a single parent.
I, well I worked for, I took money off my partner for the child. I worked, I supported my own child.
Okay.
I made, I made, I made this.
And did he support the child as well?
No.
So you weren't partners then, obviously. He basically done a runner, is that what you're trying to say?
No, I haven't gone to marry him.
No, but at the time, jeepers creepers, I'm getting very confused.
He, after the child was born, you said he went away to work.
He wasn't supporting the child when he went away to work, so he done a runner?
No, I was half with him.
Oh, God almighty.
I was very, very young when I had my child.
Sorry, just banging my head off a wall there, sorry.
Okay, so in relation to what the pastor's saying, so you should, you believe he's wrong.
A woman's place is not in the home.
I think to everyone their own, if a woman is put in a predicament, maybe she needs to support a child.
You know what I mean? It's every situation is different.
Okay, I want to ask the pastor that question.
Here in Ireland, pastor, we have the highest rate of single parents.
We have, I think now at this stage, it's up around the 30% mark of children who are born to single mums, you know, with no father in sight.
What do you think of that?
Well, I think that they should keep their legs closed until they get married.
You know, they need to be a virgin when they get married, like the Bible commands.
So if they're going to go out and get in the stuff, well, then I guess they're going to have to, you know, live with the consequences and have to work and stick their kid in daycare.
But, you know, they should have not gotten in that situation by remaining pure and virgin until they get married.