Hey, everybody, this is Matt Powell from Matt Powell Official.
Wanted to let you know that we are doing a surprise live stream for all of my viewers.
We're covering a topic that doesn't often get covered on this channel,
but I'd like to cover it more.
And that's the topic of soul winning, as well as I wanted
to introduce a friend of mine, Brother Shane Jantz.
He actually was featured in the movie Deported.
Now, if you haven't seen the movie Deported, I highly recommend that you check it out.
I loved the movie from start to finish.
I got to see it about a year and a half ago in the theaters, and it was a incredible film.
Shane played a very key role in the movie.
And so it's definitely a film that I recommend.
It shows us that people that undergo preaching the gospel will undergo persecution.
And Shane underwent a lot of persecution, as well as my friend Paul Wittenberger,
Pastor Steven Anderson, a lot of those men were really, really persecuted in Botswana.
But before we do that, Shane, why don't you tell us just a little bit
about yourself and what you're up to at your channel?
OK, so obviously, thanks for the introduction.
So I got saved about six years ago by Brother Rob, which a lot of you probably
if you're watching this, you probably know who Brother Rob is.
And very early on, he introduced me to this thing called soul winning.
I was probably only a couple of weeks into being saved
when he said, hey, you want to go to a soul winning marathon?
And I'm like, what is that? And he explained to me, he goes,
you know, we get our Bibles and we go and we knock on doors
and we just ask people if they know if they're going to heaven.
And I was all gung ho.
So we jumped in the car and we went down to Dearborn for the first marathon.
And he was my partner. I was a silent partner.
And we knocked a few doors.
And within, you know, you know, a couple of hours, we had a few people saved.
And after that, I was hooked.
So since then, you know, I've kind of made it my mission
to just go out and soul win all the time.
Amen. Amen. So that's really neat.
I didn't know that Brother Rob actually led you to Christ.
Yes, that was pretty powerful because I know Brother Rob personally.
And I've seen him give the gospel many times and get many people saved.
And so that is phenomenal how, you know, as we reach people with the gospel,
we create more soul winners and then those soul winners create more soul winners.
And it just seems like there's a revival going on.
And that's what I wanted to make my viewers aware of,
is that there's revival going on in the soul winning movement.
And Shane, whenever you're trying to witness to somebody,
what are some key tactics when you go and first introduce yourself?
What are some good tactics to use to be able to witness to somebody successfully
and get them saved? Okay.
Well, there's a lot of things that you can do.
And the thing that I find that works the best for myself personally is we use these YouTube cards.
They've been around for a few years.
We've kind of customized, in Toronto here,
we've got a group of soul winners and we've kind of customized our card with some of the documentaries
and the Bible Way to Heaven and One Save,
The Last Save. And basically what we do is,
or what I do, is I go up to people and I just ask them if they watch YouTube videos.
And it's pretty, it's a pretty easy segue into asking
or introducing yourself because pretty much everybody nowadays watches YouTube.
So, you know, I say, hey, do you watch YouTube videos? And they'll be like,
yeah, I do. And I say, well, here, can I hand you this?
And I just hand them the card and then they take it and then I say,
hey, it's a friend of mine who made some documentaries based on the Bible.
And so on this card is on the back of it,
it has the Bible Way to Heaven. So I say there's some documentaries on the front
and then on the back, there's a Bible Way to Heaven.
And I say, do you know if you're going to heaven when you die?
And that is pretty much the intro.
So based on their answer is how I move forward.
So, you know, most times, you know, a lot of people say,
I don't know, I'm not sure, I'm, you know, whatever, insert answer.
And then I basically tell them, well, if I could tell you in two minutes,
would you be willing to listen? And I find that two minutes is,
works great for me in terms of getting people to actually stop up and listen.
Now, the gospel isn't two minutes that I present,
but I think that by telling them two minutes,
everybody's got two minutes to spare.
And if they're kind of humming and hawing, I'm like, hey man,
two minutes to eternity. And that seems to get people sometimes.
And the other thing is, within two minutes, if they're receptive,
they'll let you keep going. If they're not receptive,
they're going to shut you down. So it's not that we're lying about its two minute gospel.
It's that it's two minutes that sparks their interest to hear the gospel.
And then you take it from there.
Amen. Amen. And so let's talk a little bit about the crowd that says
that you have to get people to turn over a new leaf to be saved.
How do you refute that? See, whenever I go out to give the gospel to people,
that's a common thing. Whenever you ask somebody,
hey, have you been saved? Have you been born again?
Are you sure you're going to heaven? They'll say, well,
I repented of all my sins. I cleaned up my life.
I did this. I did that.
What are some scriptures that you might take them to?
Or what are some things that you might say to them, brother Shane,
to get them to doubt that position?
Well, when they start telling me all about their works,
I, you know, I'm a good person. I live a good life.
I switch. I change my life, all that stuff.
I usually like to tell them that it's easier than that.
And that the Bible says that is very, very easy.
And so then the other thing that I will do is if they start listening,
well, you know, I turned over a new leaf.
I actually, instead of taking them right away to scripture,
I take the, I asked them, I said, well, what does that mean?
And a lot of times people throw out these,
like they throw out these, these things at you.
And like they throw these one liners or whatever.
And they are just in my, in my, in my time soul winning.
I kind of figured out that sometimes they're just telling you things because they're just,
you're just trying to throw a bunch of things at the wall to see what sticks.
And in the hopes that you go away.
So when they say, you know, I turned over a new leaf or,
you know, I got a relationship with Christ or whatever.
I turned that around and I said, well, what does that mean?
And then based on their answer that then I listened to the answer very carefully.
And then from there I take them in the direction that they took me, right?
So if they say, you know, oh, you know, I live a good life and all that stuff.
I'll say, well, the Bible doesn't say you have to live a good life in order to be saved.
And then I'll take them to, you know, Ephesians 2 8 9 or, you know,
Acts 16 30 31, you know, believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, stuff like that.
So, so the trick that I use is I rebut that with a question in terms of what does that mean?
That is awesome. Yeah, I find myself doing similar things and I think that the positivity,
because I know my brothers have gone out soul winning with you.
My dad has gone out soul winning with you.
And they say that the way that you reach a lot of people is by being really positive with them.
And, you know, my grandma always used to say that if you use honey, it attracts more bees.
Yeah. So true.
I find that back in the early days of my soul winning
and stuff like that when I would go out with,
you know, different people and stuff like that when I was kind of learning.
Sometimes the odd soul winner would be very,
very judgmental or just be looking for the problems.
So if somebody says I'm a Catholic, they would say, oh, you know, you're that's wrong or whatever, right?
I'm not saying that that happens today, but I'm just saying when I was learning,
a lot of people that over the years I've seen try to prove to that person that standing in front of them,
why they're so wrong and what they believe instead of just kind of trying to find a common ground
to work with and then, you know, through the scriptures and through the soul winning
and through your technique, showing them how they're wrong, but not flat out saying,
oh, Catholic, oh, wow, you're going straight to hell, you know, like stuff like that.
So that's what that's why I took that that kind of approach.
So when Rob was leading you to Christ, was that kind of the approach that he took?
Rob, Rob was very, very, very thorough, right?
And that's back when I got saved.
That was what, six years ago. I think he was new to soul winning, too.
I'm sure he had done it a few times, but I think my soul winning presentation was 45 minutes to an hour.
I remember hearing Acts 16 31 saying, believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved.
And he's saying, that's all you need to be saved, bro.
You just you just need to believe and, you know, put your follow your faith in Jesus Christ.
And I remember in that moment, looking out the window and going, oh,
I've been deceived and and I've been so wrong and I want to be saved.
And I was like, ready. I was ready in that moment, like just.
And then when I found out it was eternal and a couple verses later that you can't lose it.
I was like, OK, that's it. Sign me up. But unfortunately, fortunately,
unfortunately, I don't know how you want to put it.
The presentation went off for about another half an hour after that because he made sure I got I got it.
So which which leads us to, you know, over the years, him and I, we've we've kind of trimmed it down a lot.
We trimmed down the fat a lot. And, you know, now we are, you know, five to seven minutes.
If somebody's giving the gospel of some, that's if somebody is receptive, you know, it could take however long.
But, you know, we've really trimmed it down from that hour plus down to, you know, five to seven minutes.
Right on, right on. Yeah, that's pretty much that's kind of how long my presentation is, is probably about seven minutes.
Sometimes I'll go to 10 minutes, depending on how slow the person is.
Sometimes you meet people that are just a little slower and you want to take time to explain it and,
you know, make sure that they understand what you're saying. And but what do you do?
This is one of the questions I wanted to ask you is what do you do when you deal with people that are afraid that they can lose their salvation?
Maybe they'll say, well, Jesus is my savior, but I'm afraid that if I don't persevere to the end or if I don't do all these good works to stay saved, I'm going to lose my salvation.
What are your thoughts on that crowding? How do you reach them? How do you convince them that the gift of God is eternal life?
Well, I use some scriptures. I use like, obviously, like Act 623, right? The gift of God.
I use First John five, where, you know, these things that I ran to you that believe in the name of the Son of God,
that you may know that you have eternal life. Right. John three, 16.
Obviously, well, the verses that a lot of people know, I use those verses,
but then I try to use a lot of examples when it comes to that because I use the scripture
and then I break it down into an example that that based on that person,
like I use whatever that person has told me along the way, I use what they say in the example.
So I try to find an example that fits to them.
So one of the keys to that I found with with soul winning and, you know,
what I try to teach people is is we're very, very quick to get to the scriptures,
which is nothing wrong with getting to the scriptures.
But the fact that we're very quick to get to the scriptures is we miss out on what the person's saying.
And a lot of times if you listen to what the person is saying to you in the beginning during along the way,
you can actually, you know, get to them, debunk some of their problems,
some of the things that they're hung up on, you can actually address that in your soloing presentation.
So, you know, you get the crowd that, you know, I'm going to lose my salvation and stuff like that.
If they tell you that in the beginning, then you got to tailor your your your presentation to eternal security,
right, because they've kind of got the fact that Jesus is their Lord and Savior.
If they tell you I'm going to lose my salvation, they think they're saved, but they're gonna lose their salvation.
They kind of already know that that that Jesus did the work.
But what they're mixing up is the walk with the actual salvation.
So you've got to you've got to emphasize that more.
And the other thing I just want to say in response to what my earlier comments is,
even though the gospel that I, you know, I present to you, like I said to somebody who's receptive is five to seven minutes.
My gospel is not just five to seven minutes. My gospel is however long it takes for that person to get saved.
So if that person can get saved in five to seven minutes,
great, that person needs 10, 15, 20 minutes an hour, then no problem.
Now, I say that, you know, an hour is extreme, but it's only if the person's receptive.
It's not if the person's turned off or, you know, they're looking in another direction or something like that.
I'm talking about somebody who's just got a lot of questions and they're asking a lot of questions
and they're learning and they're understanding that I'll spend as much time as as I need with that person.
So it's not five to seven minutes. It's it's two minutes to figure out for both of us
whether we need to proceed anymore. And then as long as it takes for them to get what they need.
Amen. So actually, we had a question that came in from the chat.
This guy says, BM Blake says, I have a question.
I have a friend whose mom is a Muslim
and wanted to know if you guys had any advice on how to deal with an older Muslim lady with the gospel.
Did you want to answer that one, Shane?
Yeah, so with with with Muslims,
anytime I've had any success getting a Muslim saved,
usually I start in 1 John 5 10.
These things that I've written into you that believe on the name of the Son of God that you may know.
I'm sorry. That's 513. He that believeth on the Son of God had to witness himself.
He that believeth not God made him a liar because he believes not the record that God gave of his Son.
And this is the record, right?
So I use those verses in actually 5 and 5 9.
If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater for this witness which is testified of his Son.
So I use those verses with the Muslim in the beginning
because I want to show them that it's that there's a record through Jesus Christ
and that I always ask them said if God tells you something
and men tells you something you're going to listen to.
So the you know, even a Muslim person will say I'm going to listen to God, right?
So the minute you get them to say they're going to listen to God,
then you can you can start with the with the Gospel presentation.
The other thing is I tell them along the way that I asked them.
I said I asked them before I present.
I always ask them if they know a Christian's perspective on what it takes to get to heaven.
Do they know what the Bible says?
And I tell them that the Quran says that you they need to respect the Bible to in addition to the Quran.
And and then they're like no a lot of them will say no they don't know
or they have an idea or they think it's a workspace, right?
So I say well if I can can I give you what the Bible says from my point of view like from what I believe
and and I and I also give them like a disclaimer that says that somewhere along the line.
You're not going to agree with what I'm saying,
but you but just don't forget that I'm giving you my perspective.
Like I'm giving you what I believe through the Bible
and then I go through you know sin, death, second death.
You know, you know the fact that we all deserve the second death, right?
And then before I get to you know,
like Romans 5-8 and I start talking about Jesus before I go there I stop them and I say listen,
okay, here is where we are probably going to differ.
I said you may not agree with what I'm about to say right now,
and you probably don't believe with what I'm about to say right now,
but I'm just remember I'm giving you what I believe through the Bible and a biblical perspective.
So I kind of let them know because I find that if you don't,
if you don't put that little thing in before you start talking about Jesus,
the minute that you start talking about Jesus is Lord Jesus is God,
they will stop you and start telling you that Jesus is a prophet
and then what happens is with with a lot of soul winners
is the minute that they start talking to you that Jesus is a prophet, Jesus is not God.
They take you down a completely different rabbit hole
and when they take you down that rabbit hole you can't,
it's hard to bring them back to the gospel
and sometimes people just get caught up in that whole thing and then they give up, right?
So I just tell them that that you know,
here's where we're going to differ. Then I start talking about Jesus,
believing on Jesus and any time that they start to Jesus is a prophet,
Jesus is a is not is not God in the flesh.
I bring them back to the gospel and say remember I told you that,
you know, I'm giving you the biblical perspective,
I'm showing you what I believe
and and then usually I've been able to get through the gospel with them.
Now, you know, sometimes they believe and they get saved most times they don't
but you know, there's the odd time. I find that Muslims that are not practicing,
you have a lot better success with Muslims that are practicing that go to Moscow all the time.
You know, it's a tough nut. It's not impossible, but it's a tough nut to crack.
For sure, for sure. So let's jump onto this subject real quick.
First I wanted to point out, I guess, you know, there are people that are recording.
You know, they leave comments on my channel.
It turns out that a lot of them get censored. Now, I don't censor comments typically.
I will remove atheist comments if they say A, even if I'm really, really,
really stupid or B, they can't be square.
But some of my old viewers were having comments that were just disappearing
and I just wanted to say guys, YouTube censors comments.
It's not even censoring random comments.
So if I don't see your comments or if you're leaving me comments,
I apologize in advance if I don't get back to those.
So let's jump on to Deported.
The way that I actually came across you was because I saw the film Deported.
And the film Deported was probably my,
it's probably still my all time favorite movie on YouTube.
And you were featured in it. Some really great people that I think were featured in it.
What was it like going to Botswana and having people come up to you guys
and literally take you guys and deport you guys, throw you guys in jail?
I mean, probably literally got thrown in jail over there.
What was it like in Botswana?
So do you want me to start with traveling there or what was it like?
There was a bunch of questions in there. So what was it like in Botswana?
Yeah, what was it like when you guys were getting deported?
How did that, what was the feeling that was going through you?
Okay, so when we got deported, it was kind of like in stages.
So Pastor Anderson, he was the first one to obviously get deported as you see in the movie.
One of the things that wasn't covered in the movie and what kind of start,
well, it was covered a little bit,
but what kind of sparked us kind of just all scattering and going,
getting like just being on the run was once Pastor Anderson was deported,
Garrett had no best man for his wedding.
So he had asked brother Rob to become the best man.
And so we had gone to the, so Rob said,
okay, so the next day we went to this to a school which is shown in the movie
and we preached to a bunch of the kids and a bunch of people got saved.
And then after that we went to, Rob and I went out for lunch,
actually the group went out for lunch, but Rob and I seen a KFC.
So we booked over to the KFC and we were having lunch.
And so Paul and Garrett came into the KFC and Garrett said,
hey Rob, we have to go fill out some forms
because you were now the best man for the wedding.
And Rob said, sure, no problem.
And then Paul said, take my car.
So that's where the whole car thing comes into play in the movie.
So Rob said, sorry, Paul said, take my car.
And so Garrett, Gnar, Nail and Rob,
they all went to the courthouse or whatever to fill out the forms.
And then Paul, myself and the other guy, Logan,
we all ended up in another car and Rob went one direction
and we went the other direction towards Gaborone,
which is downtown Botswana.
So while we're driving to Botswana or Gaborone,
sorry, we get a, I get a phone call from Rob
and when we're traveling in places like that,
Rob and I, we don't usually call each other unless there's a problem.
So for him to call me in Botswana on his personal line there,
you know, that's something's up.
So he called me and I'm like, hey man, what's going on?
And he's like, we went to, so he tells me, he goes,
we went to the courthouse to sign the forms
and the police showed up and they arrested us.
And I'm like, okay, so where are you?
And he's like, I don't know.
And then all I heard was some arguing on the phone,
some like, you could hear like a scuffle
and then the phone hung up.
And that was kind of the call.
We've been arrested and the phone hung up, like where are you?
I don't know.
And so that called him back a bunch of times.
There was no, there was no call.
So that kind of what started us getting scared
because we're like, okay, now they've arrested Garrett and Rob
for no reason and now and are so, you know, we must be next.
So then that's kind of when we scattered.
Once we scattered, they started really looking for us
as it was shown in the movie.
One of the things that wasn't shown in the movies was the military.
Well, you see the military looking for us,
but they didn't say that the military was forming all the hotels looking for us.
So they would come in just, you know,
guns blazing into these hotels trying to find us.
So that was kind of scary.
So basically Pastor Anderson got deported,
Garrett got deported, Rob Minar got deported.
But Pastor Anderson was by himself,
but he was the first to go and we'd spoken to him
and he said that, you know, it wasn't too bad.
They asked him a bunch of questions,
you know, they searched him and basically sent him on his way.
He said it was no, actually he didn't even say it searched him,
he just said that they asked him a bunch of questions and away he went.
And then we spoke to, I spoke to Rob and Garrett after their arrest.
Garrett was in the airport when he was leaving
and he told us that, you know, they asked him a bunch of questions
and he was more upset about the wedding than he was about
and not being able obviously to attend his own wedding
than what had happened to him with the government.
Rob said it was pretty uneventful in terms of, you know, threats.
They asked him a bunch of questions.
Obviously, he was, you know, I'm sure he was nervous.
I can't speak for him, but you know, just based on my conversation, my opinion.
And he, you know, he's a little nervous,
but they were so many in the government office and stuff like that
and eventually they let them go without much complication.
So when it came to me, I thought that I was going to be able to just,
you know, waltz into the airport,
maybe get questioned a little bit in the way I went.
But unfortunately that didn't happen for me.
What prompted me to go to the airport was it was the Friday,
I believe it was Friday, and we were leaving on Monday morning
on a flight out of Botswana, obviously back home.
And I was the last Canadian in the group.
And I figured, well, because I'm Canadian,
I probably should be able to get out.
Now, we were going to go soul winning in the city.
We were in the country somewhere.
We were going to go soul winning in a little village.
And we only had one car, so we had to take a couple of turns to get out there.
So the first car went, I think it was Paul and Logan that were in the car.
And, you know, the rest of us were waiting for the next run.
And then Paul and Logan came back.
Paul's eyes were like golf balls.
They were baseball. They were so huge.
He's like, oh man, he goes, we got a call to turn around.
And when we turned around, we seen the military trucks.
There's, I think he said three military trucks coming to go get us
because they knew we were going there.
And that's kind of when I decided that it's time to go home.
I'm the last Canadian.
I'm going to get a flight to South Africa.
And so I called Rob. He said he had a place for me.
So I said, okay, I'm out of here.
So you see me packing up in the movie and I head to the airport.
When I got to the airport, I bought myself a plane ticket while I was there.
I cleared customs, not customs,
security checks with the way they check all your luggage and stuff like that.
And I got to the final checkpoint. My flight was leaving in 40 minutes.
I could see the plane. There's one last checkpoint before you get to the plane.
And that's where they scan and they scan my passport.
And actually, they had scanned my passport before,
but it never flagged anything in the other checkpoints.
But this checkpoint when they scanned it,
they something came up and the lady at the desk said,
you just got to wait a second.
So then the next thing I know, there's this huge military guy,
like, you know, just makes me look like a midget.
He comes out of nowhere. He says, come with me.
And then they put me in the holding room. He says, you're not under arrest.
And then the police showed up and they said I was still wasn't under arrest,
but they were starting to be, oh, you're with that group.
And, you know, starting to question me. Then they took me to a police station,
which was in the airport parking lot.
And then I met with the chief of police and he questioned me a little bit,
but nothing major. And to this point,
I was kind of just like kind of nonchalant
because I figured they were just going to let me hop on a flight.
And so he questioned me and then had me sit in a holding room.
And you've all heard that story with the guy getting mopped.
And then the head of immigration came. There was three of them.
And then they proceeded to question me, which wasn't too bad.
But then the questions started getting more and more intense.
And then they started searching my bags and they weren't like just searching it.
Like, like, you know, just open the bag and look around, you know,
they were like taking each each piece of my items out
and they were like shaking it, looking for things.
They went through everything and they just basically lined it up like a drug bus.
You see on like cops or something like that.
And and then they got to my laptop.
So in my laptop, there was some of the footage that was for Deported.
And they had they pulled out my laptop
and they said that I had a sticker on the laptop that said,
I'm not ashamed of the gospel. This message is banned in 13 countries or something like that.
Well, they didn't like that. They thought that was like, I don't know, something really bad.
And so they're like, why do you have this on your laptop? And I'm like, I don't know.
Because it's true, right? And so then they they said,
we're going to go through this laptop. And it was at that point
when they said they were going to go through the laptop is kind of when I got nervous
and I said, well, why are you going to go through my laptop?
I said, am I under arrest? And they say, yes, you're under arrest.
And I said, well, if I'm under arrest, don't I don't I have rights?
Like don't shouldn't I be able to see somebody like a legal representative or something?
And they said, hey, bro, you're in Africa. You have no rights.
And so that's in that in that moment is when it got real to me
because I thought I was heading right to jail.
And of course I was by myself. So then they proceeded to check some more things.
And and then the main question was, where's Paul Wittenberger?
Where's Paul Wittenberger? And I didn't I honestly didn't know where Paul Wittenberger was.
Actually, I didn't know where the group was
because we were in like a backpackers haven and in the middle of the country,
like, you know, I probably still couldn't tell you where he was like,
you know, I didn't know the name of the place at that time
because we'd only been there a day or day and a half.
So. We they kept questioning question.
Where's Paul? Where's Paul? Where's Paul? At some point.
They asked me to give him the gossip. They asked like,
what was I doing? And do I, you know, was I here to push,
you know, the agenda? And I was like, I'm just here to preach the gospel.
And they they kind of test me to see if I knew if I if I knew how to preach the gospel.
So they asked me, well, what are you what were you preaching?
And I said, well, if you give me a Bible, I said that I can,
you know, I can show you how to get to heaven.
No, like we know you can't have your Bible. And I said,
well, I said, it's okay. I've got it memorized. I can I can tell you off by heart.
And I, you know, I gave Romans, you know,
323 for all the sin to come in short of the glory of God.
And I said, the Bible says we're all sinners and they're like, we've had enough.
And then the guy starts going and started laughing at me goes.
Yeah, some some man of God you are.
So they kept questioning me, kept questioning me, kept asking me about where's Paul?
Where's Paul? And I kept telling him, I don't know.
And then and then they said, listen, at one point,
he just leaned over a table and he's all serious. And he just says, listen,
Shane, you're in Africa. And he goes,
you're under arrest. And he goes,
we have ways to get information out of people.
And he goes, we can take you somewhere
and we get this information out of you because you're lying to us.
And he's like, do you want us to take you there? And I was like, no.
And he's like, well, then you better start talking.
And then in that moment is when somebody came from another room
and whispered something in his ear.
And then that's when he asked me to step outside of the room.
And I stepped outside of the room. They searched all my stuff.
I could see through a window what they were doing.
And they were searching all my things again, like like going through it.
They were opening up my laptop and I use Macs.
So Macs are I don't even know if there's a Mac in Botswana
or very few people are familiar with them.
And they were trying to figure out how to turn it on and stuff like that.
And then they call me back into the room. And when they call me back into the room,
I thought, OK, well, here we go. Like this is it.
I'm going to end up somewhere.
And they photographed me like a mugshot style, you know, front side.
And they took photos of everything.
And then they told me that there's a flight leaving in 40 minutes.
Yeah, it was 40 minutes. Roughly that they told me that there was a flight leaving.
And if I was willing to buy my ticket, they let me go.
And if I didn't want to buy my ticket, that I would have to go to a jail until
my flight on the Monday morning.
So I obviously I bought the ticket.
I said I'd buy the ticket and and they said, OK.
So they basically shoved everything in the bag.
So there was no rhyme or reason. It took me forever to find everything
because cables and computers ended up in other parts of bags and,
you know, adapters and all that stuff. But they just threw everything in the bags.
They got me one of those buggies that you use at the airport,
threw all my bags on the thing and said, we're going to escort you to the customs.
And then they said to me, they said, don't say a word.
Don't make a scene in the airport.
So I went to the airport, bought my ticket.
They were standing with me the whole time, these three guys.
And then I went through the security check.
When I went through the security check at that point,
once I crossed in there, they they they said, OK, you're on your own.
So and then they backed off.
And then I went through I went through the final check point where they scan your passport.
They scanned my passport. They stamped it.
And then I was in the airport waiting for my plane.
So at that point, I went to the to the bathroom and and not because I had to go,
but just because I wanted somewhere to go where I could just like just like
just put some water on my face and be like, wow, what happened here?
So I went to the bathroom and I was there about five minutes.
And then when I opened the door, the immigration guys were standing outside the door.
So what I think they were doing is they they let me go to see if I was going to make a phone call to the group to see where to to see where they were or whatever,
which I didn't make any phone calls, but they they were I guess they were watching me just to see what what I was going to do.
And then they told me when I when I came out, I was kind of stumped, like, wait, what are you guys doing here?
And they were like, oh, your flight's delayed and we have to wait with you until you leave.
So the flight was delayed, I think three hours. So I ended up sitting in the airport with them for three hours.
And then my time came up to leave and they see me on the plane and that was the first trip to Botswana.
Wow, that is unbelievable. I mean, all this just because you guys were preaching the gospel of all of this,
just because you guys were hearing the good news. Shane, I've met you personally.
I have met Paul Wittenberger. I am good friends with Paul Wittenberger.
And I cannot believe that they were they were basically calling where is Paul Wittenberger?
You know, Paul Wittenberger had become public enemy number one in Botswana at that time.
He was on the front page of the newspaper at one point.
I don't know if it made it into the movie, but we were in a restaurant and Paul was on the front page of the paper with Pastor Anderson,
that infamous photo that it's all over the Internet. And we were just sitting there having breakfast.
And the lady came up to Paul and like, is this you? And he's like, no, it's not because, yeah, I think it's you.
He's like, no, it's not. And then we had to we had to duck out of that hotel real fast.
And that's why he ended up shaving in the movie. Yeah,
and the movie itself is just so it's amazing that this is based off of a true story.
You know, folks, if you guys haven't seen the movie, please take the time to check it out.
I'm going to put it in the description below. Deported the movie.
I mean, in the first five minutes, you will be hooked because you've got Pastor Stephen Anderson in a room with these guys and they're just trying to nail him.
It's a fake pastor, two news reporters and got the entire media that shows up against him.
And he held his own against the Soviets and against the perverts.
I was just so impressed with that, how he handled it professionally and a little side note to that opening scene of Deported.
Some people watch it and they they think that, you know, Pastor Anderson went in there,
guns blazing, you know, just, you know, talking all kinds of smack.
But it was actually the opposite. The way the scene sometimes comes across is that,
you know, he was calling the sodomites and stuff like that, but it wasn't it.
That's not how it went. What had happened was we had had the first church service and on the Sunday.
And you see the guy later in the movie, this this guy had come into the service and he was just walking around talking to everybody.
And and, you know, everybody was kind of everybody was kind of standoff.
Like, who is this guy? Because he was acting kind of strange.
And then what happened was he ended up pulling out his his his camera and he started filming us.
And he wasn't like, just like filming, like, you know, just panning shots of the of the church and stuff.
He was actually coming up and like getting in your face with the camera and like, like just like right there.
Right. And so somebody had turned to Pastor Anderson, actually, somebody actually talked to him and said,
what are you doing? And then somehow they got on the question on whether or not he was gay or not.
And he he gave some weird answer, like, I don't know what I am. And then somebody went to Pastor Anderson and said,
hey, there's a guy in here. We don't know what he's doing. Right.
So when you see Pastor Anderson coming at him in the movie, you think that it's just Pastor Anderson just being,
you know, angry and upset and just coming after this guy, which really it was the opposite.
It was like he was questioning, like, hey, what are you doing here? Who are you?
Right. And then he started asking them questions like, are you gay?
And then the guy was given like all these weird answers. I identify as some weird,
like not even like even if you're gay, he wasn't even given like normal gay answers.
He was just giving weird answers. Right. And then that's when Pastor Anderson said, you need to leave.
Right. You're not welcome here. And then the guy kind of, I'm not leaving, I'm not leaving.
And then and then we get him out of the church and and then he comes back and then we get him out.
Like we didn't we weren't physical with him. We just kind of like you got to go like people,
you know, I can't remember who somebody escorted him out, but they weren't physical.
And then the guy ends up calling the media.
And then that's where you see the movie and the footage in the movie where the guy comes back
and you see Pastor Anderson like pushing them. But there was a lot of build up to that.
It wasn't like Pastor Anderson just attacked this guy right away.
Right. There was there was a lot of things that happened.
And then obviously they just caught what they wanted. Even even in Botswana news,
you see like Pastor Anderson kind of shoving the guy. And that's not what happened.
That's that's not that's not how it played out. Right.
And I say all that to say this. The reason for that that that interview is we had the evening service after the news
and everybody showed up in the morning service and the radio.
Somebody from the radio station came and asked Pastor Anderson to go on the radio the next the next morning.
And it was only supposed to be Pastor Anderson and the radio host as far as he knew.
At least that's what I was told. And and so Pastor Anderson went on the next morning.
And when he showed up the next morning, he ends up with those two guys that you see in the opening scene.
Now, the one guy in the opening scene, it's very, very subtle. It's in the movie.
But the one guy in the opening scene tells him or the one of the guy that the guy
that's dressed up like the priest in the opening scene later in the movie tells Pastor Anderson that,
you know, he had to try and get him kicked out and that he'd gone to the government to get him kicked out.
So, you know, Pastor Anderson, you know, put yourself in his shoes and shows up to this interview.
It's just supposed to be him in a radio host. He's just supposed to talk about school winning.
And then, you know, you've got two guys that, you know, agree, agree with the LGBT movement.
And then and then you got this guy telling Pastor Anderson before they even get on the radio,
that that he tried to have him banned and he's surprised that he's there and he's going to work to get him out.
And then the lights go on and, you know, it's showtime. And then even in the even in the interview there,
you know, they're they're egging him on trying to get him to, you know, just to spew off.
So, you know, I think and this is just my opinion, just having been there.
I think that I think it's pretty obvious that he was set up and it wasn't just,
you know, him just being a jerk and coming out there and just, you know, I'm going to whatever.
I think that he was set up. Yeah, no doubt.
You know, it's amazing how the news media, they paint things totally inaccurately.
And even the conservative media often has their own twist and their own narrative that they want to use.
And what's really amazing is they tried to set up Pastor Anderson.
But Pastor Anderson ended up utterly annihilating all of them.
I mean, I know Pastor Anderson doesn't want to do debates and I do quite a few debates here and there.
And, you know, I thoroughly enjoy dismantling bad arguments per se.
But Pastor Anderson really, really put the plumb line down on those guys.
He didn't know how to handle it. He actually, yeah, he handled it.
He handled it quite well. Right. And, you know, which is no surprise to I think anybody that follows him.
But but given the circumstance, given that I think that he, you know, in the beginning again,
this is just my opinion, maybe it wasn't, he might say different.
But I think that he's trying to be a little reserved in the beginning.
And I think because the goal of this whole thing for this mission to deport was not to talk about sodomites.
It was to preach the gospel and for Garrett to get married.
And I think when he went into that radio show, and again, this is just my opinion.
I believe that he just wanted to talk about soul and he didn't want to talk about,
you know, Romans one or, you know, you know, the biggest 2013 and he didn't want to talk about.
I don't think he want to talk about now. If you asked him, he would talk about it.
But I don't think that was on the first thing to come out of his mouth.
He wanted to talk about the soul winning and the people that are getting saved.
And that bus one is a receptive place and that, you know, we can do great work here.
I think that was his goal to take that radio interview.
And obviously, they goaded him into something completely different to make them look bad,
which he didn't come out looking bad in the long run anyways.
Right. Shane, if you ever had the chance to go back to Botswana, would you go?
I did go back to Botswana for the filming.
Yeah, so we had to do so when we filmed, but when we filmed deported,
well, we didn't know we were filming deported when we filmed deported.
And that's that's why a lot of the shots, you know, their cell phone shots and stuff like that.
When we when we started filming this thing,
like Paul had taken all high quality footage and and everything as Paul normally does.
And he was doing it with with a movie in mind of how we started the church in Botswana,
ending with Garrett's marriage. And what happened was obviously the movie Deported,
which you now see and and he he was we didn't film a lot of things
while we were there because we didn't think we were going to make a movie based on the fact
that we all got arrested and thrown in, you know,
Paul got thrown in jail and all the other things.
So what happened was when I left deported when I when I left,
when I left Botswana the first time when the guys escorted me to the plane,
within an hour before I left, they started to kind of mellow out.
I think they realized that I wasn't I wasn't really any harm to anybody.
And they start asking questions about Canada and and they weren't really asking.
They're just asking more like just generalized questions.
And so we started, I wouldn't say joking around, but the feelings got a lot more calmer.
And when I left, I said, so that's it.
And they're like, yeah, and they said to me, we will see you next time.
And I said, next time. And they're like, yeah, next time.
I'm like, I thought I'm banned from Botswana.
And they said, no, no, you're not banned from Botswana.
You just have to leave because this time you're not allowed in, but you can come back.
And I said to him, I said, I'm never coming back here.
I jumped on that plane and I took off, right?
And then, you know, fast forward, Paul gets arrested.
Paul goes to jail. All those things that happened to Paul, as we already know,
or, you know, or you will know if you watch the movie.
And Paul gets back to the States and he wants to,
you know, we started talking about we should make a movie about this.
And he was like, yeah, we got to make a movie about this.
And then when he looked at the footage,
he realized that he didn't have all the footage that he needed.
So the movie kind of went to the cutting room floor.
It just kind of just just went there and he worked on some other things.
And about two years later,
I get a phone call from Paul, I think it was January or something or February.
And he says, hey, you want to go back to Botswana?
I'm like, are you serious? And he's like, yeah, let's go on.
I said, we're not going to get back in there. He goes, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, we'll get back in there. We'll get back in there.
So basically he persuaded me to go back to Botswana.
And we were going to, it was him, Pastor Anderson,
and I, and in a cameraman,
we were going to go in and try and do all the shots
for the movie that we missed to make up the movie that we now have.
And so Pastor Anderson got denied,
I think it was in Germany, so he didn't make it in.
Paul got in before I did. He got held,
going in, he got held for three or four hours and then they let him in.
And then I arrived later that day,
I think around six o'clock at night, and I got arrested immediately.
So that's not in the movie, but I got arrested immediately.
And they took the, do you want me to tell this story or?
Please. Okay. So they ended up, as soon as I pulled,
I got to the immigration. I hadn't even got my bags or anything.
They scan my passport. They see that there's a problem.
And the lady's like, hang on a second.
So she goes and gets, there's the head of security
or the head of the airport security for that night,
for that, for the night shift or the afternoon shift as I now know, right?
And so he came out and he's like, there's a problem with your passport.
You're going to have to come with us, grab your bags.
So I went and grabbed my bags and then they ended up taking me into this office room.
And I put all my bags there and I sat there
and then they said, there's some people here that want to talk to you.
So they took me to another room and I got interrogated by two ladies.
Where are you going? What you doing? Why are you here?
Why are you back? Was one of the questions, right?
Because they were actually surprised to see that I came back
and asked me a bunch of questions and they said,
okay, we're going to report this to our supervisor.
So I went back into the room.
I sat with the head supervisor for the airport
and he went out, talked to them and he came back and he says,
okay, head of immigration for Botswana is coming to talk to you.
He needs to talk to you. And I was like, okay.
All right. So when is he coming? And they're like,
we don't know. Could it be tonight or tomorrow?
And I said, well, if he comes tomorrow, I'm like, where am I going to go?
And he was like, we don't know. We'll figure that out.
So he leaves and when he leaves, I'm in the room with the customs guards.
There's three ladies in there and they have a K,
the one lady in front of her has a KJV.
And so I said to her, hey, is that a Bible?
She's like, yeah. Is that a KJV? And she's like, yeah.
I'm like, why do you have that in there?
And she goes, oh, you know, sometimes I read it and stuff like that.
I'm like, so you must be a Christian. And she's like, yeah.
I'm like, so, you know, if you're going to heaven when you die.
And she's like, no, I don't know. Right.
And I said, well, if you allow me to get my Bible out of my bag,
I said, I could, you know, I could sit here and show you guys.
They're like, sure, we'd love that. So I ended up grabbing my Bible.
I opened it up and I started preaching to the three customs officers that were there.
And while I'm preaching to them, the head security guy comes in and he's like,
what's going on here? Like he's like looking around
because he sees me with the Bible preaching to these people.
He's like, what's going on here? And they're like,
he's showing us how to get to heaven. And this guy like stands up like a soldier.
And he just like straightens up and he's like,
you need to repent of your sins to get to go to heaven.
And I'm like, no, you don't. He's like, yes, you do.
And so him and I actually got into a debate on how you don't have to repent of your sins to go to heaven.
And I was just like, you know, throwing verses at him and stuff like that.
And and then he just finally he just got up from his desk and he turned around.
He walked was fine. He walked away and left.
So what happens when you're when you're in a situation like this with in the in the in Botswana is these guards,
when the planes come in, they go out, they let the people come into the airport,
and then they come back and they sit in the room. They do like stuff on the computers and stuff.
So when he had walked out, I gave them a couple more scriptures.
He kind of interrupted the my, you know, my presentation.
And then a plane came in and they had gone out to service the plane.
So then they all came back with the supervisor and then they sat down
and the supervisor says to me, those you the immigration is not coming till the morning and you can't stay here.
And I said, OK, I'm like, is there another flight because I can hop on a flight to South Africa
because it's only 40 minute flight and I'll buy my ticket and I'll head over there.
I'll come back in the morning. And he's like, nope, you can't leave.
You're here now. I'm like, OK, so what am I staying here? And he's like, nope, you can't stay here.
I'm like, OK, so what am I doing? Are you going to put me in jail?
And he's like, yep. He goes, they're going to come get you. And I'm like,
what are you gonna put me in jail for? I didn't do anything wrong.
I said, if you don't want me here, I said, just let me go.
He's like, nope. He goes, you're here. You're going to jail till immigration talks to you.
And then the customs ladies, they all just went nuts.
They just started yelling at him. They started talking to him in their language.
And they're like, he's a pastor. You can't let him go because he's a pastor.
So in that moment, I became a pastor, even though I'm not a pastor.
I became a pastor and I'm like, OK, I'll be a pastor for this moment, right?
Like, he's a pastor. You can't, you can't do that. You can't do that.
He's a man of God. You can't do that.
And he started arguing with them and they're going back and forth, back and forth.
And he's like, fine. And then he gets up and he walks away.
And then he comes back about 10 minutes later. Now it's like 1030 at night.
And he's like, he's like, fine. So he comes back about 1030 and he's like,
you know what? He goes, I don't care what happens to you.
I'm going to get the night shift guy can deal with.
He can figure out what to do with you. He goes, I'm done.
Right? Like, OK, no problem. So 11 o'clock rolls around.
The night shift supervisor comes in.
They, those two talking like, yeah, that guy's a man of God.
And you just kind of like saying all this derogatory, not derogatory,
but just kind of like basically impending that I'm a nobody.
Right. And then he's like, good luck.
And he walks out. And the ladies walk out.
Three new ladies walk in. And then the security,
the head of security, his name is offensive. So,
so that the ladies go out, they got a flight or something.
They weren't in there. And it's just me and this head, the security guard,
or not security, not security guard, the head of security.
And I started talking to him. We start talking about Canada,
you know, kind of break the ice with them.
And and then he leaves.
And then the ladies come in and I go right into it.
I don't waste a second. I'm like, hey, ladies, if you died today,
you know, if you're going to have like, no, we don't know.
So I whip out my Bible and I give him the gospel.
All three of them get saved. And then they're like,
you need to tell that you need his name's offensive.
You need to tell offense. You need to tell offense.
I'm like, yeah, as soon as he comes in, I'm going to tell him.
So by now, it's like one o'clock in the morning and offense.
He comes in and they kept telling him, you got to talk to this guy.
You got to talk to this guy. You got to hear what he has to say.
And he kept like, yeah, yeah, yeah, whatever.
And he go out and come back and come back.
So around one o'clock in the morning.
So I went in the beginning, I was sitting in the front of the of the office.
And by now, one o'clock, the three ladies are saved.
They moved me to a desk a little closer to the end.
They had a more comfortable chair.
And so I'm sitting at this desk and offense.
He comes rolling over to me from his thing.
He's like, okay, tell me what you tell me what these ladies tell me I have to hear.
So I end up giving the giving him the gospel and he gets saved.
He's like, yeah, that's awesome. So so now everybody on shift at the airport for immigration is now saved,
right? And so about two o'clock in the morning now it,
you know, it's kind of like dark in the airport.
No flights are coming in and there's everybody's just sitting there kind of working on the computers.
And these two big military guys show up again.
I don't really find these huge guys,
but these two huge guys show up dressed in military gear and they open the door and they're staring right at me.
And we're like, oh boy, here we go. Right? Bots want to jail.
I've heard all about it from Paul. Right?
And offense, he gets up right away.
He goes outside and he starts talking to him and you could see them kind of like in a,
I wouldn't say they were yelling at each other, but they were in a heated argument.
He was like basically pointing. I'm like, get out of here,
get out of here, right? And they ended up leaving.
And so he comes back, sits beside me,
went on his chair and he's like, this pastor, he goes,
they were coming to take you to jail. He goes,
but we're not letting you go. He was, you're staying here with us tonight until immigration comes.
So he saved my butt, right?
So the next morning, go see the immigration.
They questioned me. They called all these agencies,
you know, calling me by name. They asked me why I was there.
I said I was there for Safari, which technically I was,
because I did do a lot of Safari while I was in Africa with Paul to get shots for the movie.
And he said, are you going to preach? I'm like, nope, not going to preach.
And he's like, all right, we'll let you in. So they ended up letting me into Botswana.
So the gospel saved me to get in, preaching the gospel.
So fast forward, now we go through all this stuff. It's time to leave the airport.
Everybody's leaving and everybody's left now and I'm the last guy.
Sorry, it's me and Paul at the airport and Paul's leaving before me.
And we come into the airport into the main thing before security.
And who's there? The head of immigration. And he remembered both of us by name.
And he's like, how was your trip? And we're like, it was good.
He was like, you going Safari? And we're like, yeah.
And then he says, Paul says to him, he goes, is there going to be any problems with our passport?
He goes, I don't know. It depends on what you did. I don't know.
We'll see when we check, right? And then he walked away.
So Paul goes into, because this flight's before me and we can't go into the security together
because we're three hours, excuse me, three hours apart.
So Paul goes into the security, clears the scanners where they go through all your luggage and all that,
gets to that final checkpoint that I mentioned earlier.
They scan his passport and then next thing I know,
I see Paul talking to the lady because I'm looking through a little piece of glass.
There's a little opening in the glass. I'm just looking through it, right?
And then Paul takes off his gym bag and then my heart sank. I'm like, oh boy,
here we go again, right? Like we're all, we're all arrested.
And then some guy comes out, he's dressed in military gear and way Paul goes and my heart sunk.
So I started calling, I started calling him and his phone's not, he's not answering his phone.
So I started calling back home because by now, now I know my rights and I know what I'm entitled to.
I know that they broke all kinds of, you know, Geneva Convention, all that stuff.
They broke a bunch of laws in my arrest. So I'm a little bit more educated.
So I call some people, tell them, hey, if you don't hear from me in the next few hours,
you know, start calling the consulates and stuff like that because I've been arrested, right?
So I'm sitting there and I go to the restaurant, I get my last meal,
figuring well I might as well eat something good before I go to jail
because Paul told me the food sucks there. And then Paul calls me and he says,
it's okay, I'm clear. They had, our passports are still flagged,
but they let me go and he goes, yours is probably still flagged.
So I know, I don't know what's going to happen.
And but you're going to, he goes, I'm on, I'm in line to get on the plane.
So he goes, call me when you get out. So he gets on the plane, away he goes.
So then it's my turn. I wait an hour and then I go through security
and as I'm going through the scans, all I feel is a jab in my back and I turn around
and there's a guy dressed in military gear and I'm like, oh, here we go.
I just see like the military stuff. I'm like, oh man, it's over, right?
I'm shaking my head, right? Because you got to remember this whole time,
this hour, I've been sitting in a panic thinking that they're just going to come arrest me
and throw me into jail. And now I'm Paul, I'm the last guy in Botswana, right?
So they, the guy jabs me, I turn around,
I look at the military gear and when I look and it's O'Fancy, the guy,
the supervisor from the night when I arrived. He's like, O'Fancy,
how are you? And he's like, oh, I'm great. He goes, how are you?
I'm like, I'm good. He goes, did you go for a safari?
I'm like, yes, I did. And he goes, okay, come with me.
And he's like, he goes, yep, there was a problem with Paul's passport.
It's still flagged. He goes, but he goes, let's scan your passport.
And he scans the passport and he was like, yeah, he goes,
your passport's still flagged. He goes, but I can let you through.
He goes, and he just stamps. He goes, I'm going to let you through.
So he goes, and then I had like two and a half hour wait.
He goes, and you know what? I'm going to sit with you
and make sure you get on that plane so everything's okay.
If anybody has a problem, I'm going to, I'm going to, I'm going to,
you know, just talk to them. So I had like an escort.
So he ends up sitting with me and then the ladies from that night,
they end up hearing that I'm in the, I'm in the building.
So they come out and they're like, oh pastor, we were so worried.
We were hoping you were okay. And we were praying for you
that everything went smoothly. And I'm like, oh, thank you and everything.
So we're, we're all talking to each other.
And then while we're sitting there for the next two hours,
anybody that worked in the airport, they would like grab them and say,
hey, you come here, come here.
And they had a chair sitting in front of me and they'd sit them down in front of me.
And they were like, okay, tell them. And then I would just preach to them.
So all they did, they were like, just find people for me to save until my flight came.
And then right at the very end, the head of immigration came.
And all four of them told him, you need to sit and listen to what this guy has to say.
And he's like, no, no, I'm good. He's like, no, no, seriously, sit down, sit down.
And they almost had him sit, to sit down. I'm like, really?
I said, you know, I'd love to share this before I leave. And he goes,
maybe I'll get you next time. And I said, yeah, I guess it'll be next time.
And then it was my time to get on the flight and in a way I went.
So I didn't get to preach the gospel,
but I almost got to preach the gospel to the head of immigration that caused all these problems.
So that was the second trip to Botswana.
And no, there will not be a third trip. I'm done with Botswana.
Right. Wow, what an incredible story. Ladies and gentlemen, that was Jane Jams.
That was a good friend of mine. I think this has been a great interview,
Shane. I wish we could go all night. We're already at the hour mark,
so we'd better start wrapping it up, I suppose. But did you have any closing remarks that you wanted to give to the viewers?
Just check out my channel. I've created a YouTube channel that it's going to cover.
You know, I've been blessed with a lot of opportunities to soul win all over the world and,
you know, all over the place and do a lot of things.
And I've gained a lot of experience soul winning.
And I'd like to, you know,
just share some of my knowledge and just, you know,
just have if the channel is just going to be all about soul winning and some stories like this,
like I'm telling now, just tell some more stories that I have from my travels and check it out.
It's act 1631, which is the verse that basically changed everything for me.
And so, yeah, my YouTube channel.
Amen and amen. Well, thank you all for tuning in.
And I'm glad that a lot of you.
Make sure to leave some comments on this channel,
leave some positive feedback so that the videos get seen in the YouTube algorithm
and we can get get more videos out there reaching people.
And so somebody commented and I think this is a great comment to end the night.
He said those two trips were definitely worth the souls saved.
Amen to that. Absolutely. After all of this, it was, you know, Botswana was scary.
It wasn't wasn't always fun and you create a lot of stress,
but a lot of people got saved and that's all that matters.
Amen. Amen. All right, folks.
Y'all have a good night and thank you again, Shane, for coming on.
All right. Thank you for having me, Matt. My pleasure.
God bless.