Alright guys, so today I'm here at Grace Avenue United Methodist Church. Look at
that. This is their main sign. All means all, without exception, you belong. If you
actually go on the Grace Avenue United Methodist Church, their about
section, like their their core beliefs, I'll read it to you right now.
Humanity. We believe that God created all human beings in God's image.
Therefore, we love and accept all people as children of God and embrace the
diversity of God's creation. We welcome and affirm our
LGBTQ plus siblings into the life of the church, including leadership, sacrament,
and service. We believe in the value of every life, but understand that our
world and local community are diminished by radical justice and the
sin of white supremacy. I'm sorry, I almost laughed. So it is important to acknowledge that
black lives matter and that no human being is illegal. Our Bible affirms
that a woman was the first to bring the message of the resurrection to the
world, and we condemn the misogyny that denies women a prophetic voice in the
church. To love our fellow human beings and to honor their gifts is to
love God.
Okay, so right now I'm going to be interviewing one of the pastors. They
actually have two pastors. They have a female pastor and they have a male
pastor. So I'm here right now at Grace Avenue United Methodist Church here in
Frisco, Texas, and I'm here with? Laura Eckles-Richter. And you are the pastor?
One of the pastors. One of the pastors. And how long have you been
pastoring the church for? My husband and I started the church 24 years ago.
24 years ago. And what made you want to be a pastor and start the church?
So as United Methodist, we are sent by the bishop to go and start new churches,
and this was a new church in the community. It's a growing community, and my
calling specifically is that I want all people to know that they are
beloved by God. What do you personally believe a person needs to do to go to
heaven? So we always start with grace, and that it's God's grace. And so we
don't talk a lot about who's going to heaven or a judgment. We really
believe that God's prevenient grace goes before us, and that God has
already claimed us as God's own. As we open ourselves to God's grace, then
we can fully know God better. But it's really about the fact that God has
already reached out to us. God's already loved us. And as Christ says,
I'm the way, the truth, and the life. God continues to make a way through
Christ in amazing ways that we cannot try to quantify or specify. We just
have to continue to open ourselves to grace with God and with one another.
Okay. And do you think that a born-again Christian can lose their
salvation? So we don't really talk about in terms of born-again Christians.
It's a different kind of theology. We believe we are all born again on a
regular basis. But what we believe is that salvation is ongoing, that it's a
daily walk with Jesus, and that we're being saved each and every day.
So salvation is a process you guys would say? We believe it's very much a
journey. It's a journey of opening ourselves to God's grace. And
prevenient grace goes before we believe in that grace that will reclaim
our faith for ourselves. We call that justifying grace, and that is that
moment where we understand that Jesus died not just for everyone but for me
personally. And so that's a personal type of receiving. But then we also move
into that and that understanding that God continues to walk with us.
But we don't believe it. So one time, it's a being saved every day.
Every day we accept God's grace. Every day we live into God's fullness.
Each and every day it's a process. And do you think that if somebody does
not believe on Jesus Christ, if they reject him, that they would go to hell?
I don't ever feel like I am any person to make a definition about who
goes to heaven or who goes to hell. My belief is that that is all about
God and that God's grace is greater than I could ever understand.
And so it is not up to me to ever make that determination. Okay. And do you
think that everybody is born, like the moment they're born, that they're a
child of God? Yes, I believe God claims each and every one of us as we are
born. Some people talk about original sin. I talk a little more about original
blessing. Would it not really be an original sin, but would you say it's a
sinful nature that we're born with though? Not like you're born in sin, but
you have a sinful nature. I would say that there's a brokenness in the world
that we all carry with us. Okay. How would you personally interpret the verse
in John chapter 1 verse 12 that it says, but as many as received him to
them he gave the power to become the sons of God even to them that believe
on his name. So what I would say is that it's always about God's free will. God
doesn't ever force us into anything or force us in a relationship, but God
greatly desires a relationship with us. Right now I'm here with? Dathan. Dathan.
And how long have you been going to Grace Avenue Methodist Church? Just
about since I was three. My parents moved here. My dad found good work and
I've been here ever since. So what do you personally believe it takes for a
person to go to heaven? I'd say that if you are objectively a moral person in
your life and you end your life as a moral person then you can get into
heaven. Okay. Now do you think that everybody is born a child of God? Yeah.
Yeah I believe everyone's born a child of God because if you take the if you
take the creation story semi literally then everybody is born and made in the
image of God. Okay. And it's created by God so therefore a child of God. Now
do you think that the man should only be the head of the wife? I think it's
relationship wise? Yes. Like if I'm married. Right. Do you think I should
always be the head of my wife? Any man in general?
I think how do I put this? I think that on a wider
to a wider degree or to a more general degree it's going to be more
common and it's going to be more helpful if it's more common. But of
course with everything there's a case-by-case basis. Okay. And I don't
think I don't know if that reflects the beliefs of the congregation. It's your personal
beliefs I'm asking you know here to ask you what you think. Now do you
think that women should be pastors? Yeah yeah I think they can be pastors.
Okay so you know the church is affirming to LGBTQ. What are your
thoughts on that? My my sister is a part of that community so I've got a personal
stake in it. I have a brother who is. Yeah. I agree with a lot of what
they say. I disagree with a lot of what they say. Okay. Case-by-case basis
obviously but I I do believe that it's it's good that our church is welcoming
to all people of all walks of life. Okay and do you think that anybody is
past the point of being saved where there's a point where somebody just
can't be saved? They're too far gone. Morally or just in general? Just in
general. I'm gonna say tentatively and very softly no. You don't think there's
anybody past the point of that? Yeah of course that comes down to you can take
extreme cases and I can look like a moron for saying that but I I'm going
to say very tentatively a soft no on that and okay yeah I think
and also to the extent of who am I to say yes I have I'd love to have
do you mind if I recite this to you and you can tell me what you think here
Romans chapter 1 it says for the invisible things of him from the
creation of the world are clearly seen being understood by the things
that are made even his eternal power and Godhead so that they are without
excuse because that when they knew God they glorified him not as God neither
were thankful but became vain in their imaginations and their foolish heart
was darkened professing themselves to be wise they became fools and changed the
glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made alike to corruptible man
into birds and four-footed beasts and creeping things wherefore God also
gave them up see you notice that it says God gave them up right to
uncleanliness through the lusts of their own hearts to dishonor their own
bodies between themselves who changed the truth of God into a lie and
worshipped and serve the creature more than the creator who was blessed
forever amen for this cause God gave them up unto vile affections
notice it says he gave them up again for even their women did change
the natural use into that which is against nature and likewise also the
men leaving the natural use of the woman burned in their lusts one toward
another man with men working that which is unseemly and receiving in
themselves that recompense of their air which was meet and even as they did
not like to retain God in their knowledge God gave them over to a
reprobate mind notice it says God gave them up and God gave them over
three times he gave those people over because why they rejected him they
didn't even want to retain God in their knowledge but I think that comes
down to free will and how God gave us free will and the ability to choose
and if we choose to turn away from him then you can essentially say that
he gave you up even though it's more so he gave you the ability to choose
to turn away like if so for example if say I was God and I keep trying to
reach out to you hey come on come on but you know no no no I think God's
finally like okay bye I've rejected you now now you're reprobate do those
nasty filthy things you want to do right that's what it's saying
understood and then it says so he gave him over to a reprobate mind to do
those things which are not convenient being filled with all and
righteousness fornication wickedness covetousness maliciousness full of
envy murder debate deceit malignity whispers backbiters haters of God
despiteful proud boasters inventors of evil things disobedient to parents
without understanding covenant breakers without natural affection
implacable unmerciful who knowing the judgment of God that they which
commit such things are worthy of death and not only to the same but have
pleasure in them that do them would you say that God approves of LGBTQ after
hearing this yeah he calls it vile right I can file that's pretty bad if
he just called them vile and he says he gave them up gave them over three
times to do those things you think God likes that I I believe this is written
for the purposes of like how about this I believe that it's written and tries
to harken away from any homosexuality or how about this or atypical sexual
behavior that's a weird way of putting that but in order for for an express
purpose that the life was hard if you have a community that has like
however many people whose sexual preference is not gonna make more people
then you're gonna have a society that's gonna be able to stand for
itself for very long and I understand the the the terms that use which are
vile and and he gives them up which are very very strict and very not strict
very good Lord oh you're good man apologies you're good
very severe rather but if I were to follow a God that does not approve of
people based on something as superficial as that then I would think
that's the wrong one okay so would you just say I mean do you do you
believe the Bible is the Word of God I believe it's God inspired so what do
you would you accept this passage or would you reject this passage here
wouldn't reject any of the Bible in terms of hell I need to do more
research yeah so I appreciate you I was gonna ask you one so did you
notice also that okay so do you think people are born gay I don't know did
you I was gonna say did you notice it says is that they left the natural
cause so they were in the natural cause at one point and if you actually read
Leviticus 2013 it said if a man shall also lie with man so they were
obviously with women before so they also are lying with man they left the
natural cause so they had to be in the natural cause at one point right
you know what I mean yeah I understand does that make sense yeah yeah so if
you think God would approve of you know that kind of lifestyle I mean what
are your thoughts on Sodom and Gomorrah little embarrassed I haven't kept up
with news when he