7.17 is your time. Very good morning to you and thank you so much for being with us on
Breakfast with Reg. Welcome to The Point. You heard me speak to him briefly just before
we went to the news. Pastor Steve Anderson is in Botswana, arrived last Thursday. He's
already heard he had his first church service right here in Botswana and he's
already seen what at least what some of the problems that we have are. One of
that alcoholism. He says that we drink too much alcohol in this country and he says
that you know what I'm going to continue preaching up against homosexuals. You
remember that he's the that pastor who was is the controversial pastor who
South Africa said you know what we are not going to be to allow you to come
into the country because what we think you're preaching is nothing but
hate speech and he said you know it's okay I feel it's a disappointment that
I'm not able to go to South Africa but you know what I'm gonna go to
Botswana and I'm gonna spread the Word of God. Well he's agreed to speak to us
this morning. He's in the studio and he's not alone. He's by the way the
founder and pastor at the Faithful Word Baptist Church in the United
States. They've set a branch up here in Klukwing and I'm also with
Reverend Thabo Mampani, second vice president of the Botswana Council of
Churches and pastor at the Evangelical Lutheran Church in Botswana.
Ken Youngman of the Lesbians, Gays and Bisexuals of Botswana, Lechabiwa,
the Advocacy Officer is going to be joining us a little bit later.
Gentlemen, very good morning to you. Thank you so much for being with us
this morning. Let me start off with you, Pastor Anderson. Controversial you are,
that you cannot deny that. First, how has been your your your your
reception? How has been the reception in Botswana? Oh the reception has been
great. In fact the reception here is better than the reception in the United
States. Yeah and why do you think that is? Well I think that people here are
more friendly and willing to talk whereas in the United States sometimes
people are just too busy, life is more fast-paced and people are less
religious in the United States so a lot of them just don't have an
interest in spiritual things. Right. So here we can walk up and down the
street and people love to talk and when I preach the gospel to them
they're happy to listen and they like it and we get along great. I love this
country. Right. Why then do you come here and
minister here when more you say more people in the United States are less
likely inclined to to you know talk about the Word of God?
Well we want to do both. You know we want to be here and there.
The reason that we chose Botswana is because you know one of our main church
members who's a great preacher at our church
he is marrying a girl from Molle Polle that he met in the United States while
she was studying abroad. Right. And so we decided that this was a
great opportunity to send him here to preach the Word
of God for the rest of his life to the Botswana people and so you
know we want to preach the gospel to
to all nations United States and Botswana. You don't preach the gospel
you spew hate speech that's what some people have been saying.
Well they said the same thing about Jesus they called Jesus the devil they
called him Beelzebub and you know they killed him for a
reason because they did not like him and Jesus said if they hated me
you know that they will hate you also. And
just to quote some of the the the utterances that you've made you
you've actually been you have been quoted as having
you know been against the Orlando massacre where around about 50 people
were killed and well you have said that you would not
you just tell us that what it is that you said.
Well I made it very clear that I do not condone a violence
I'm a totally non-violent person and I did not approve of a guy going in
there and just shooting up the place. Right. But I said I will not be sad
about it or mourn about it because the people that were victims were
disgusting homosexuals who the Bible says are worthy of death
the Bible says that the government should put them to death so why would I
be sad if these horrible people died that the
Bible said should die anyway. So you believe that the government
should be killing homosexuals? Yes I do absolutely. One of the other
quotes if the Bible condones slavery then I condone slavery because the
Bible's always right about every subject. Yes and I do not
believe that the Bible condones slavery
but it was asked the question if it did yes I would condone it because the
Bible is always right and I am not smarter than God
so if I have a different opinion than what the Bible says I'm going to go
with what the Bible says. Right even if slavery from a
humanity perspective is wrong? Well the Bible says that we should trust
in the Lord with all our heart and not lean upon our own understanding
so God is smarter than me so I get all my opinions from the Bible I don't
just make things up on my own I get it from the Bible so whatever the
Bible says is always right about every subject. You believe that too
many Botswana are alcoholics what else do you think is a problem here?
Well you know I've only been here for a few days and most of the things in
Botswana I like better than the United States
most things I love it here that's the big thing that has sort of stood out
to me it seems like drunkenness and and alcoholism is a big problem here
I've noticed it a lot of drinking everywhere I look. What can be done
about it? Well I think the preaching of God's
word is the only answer I don't think it's the government's job to fix it
I think we need the preachers in Botswana to start preaching harder
sermons against alcohol and preach hard from the Bible preach
all the scriptures that are against alcohol
that's the answer. Right let's see what the what the preachers here are
doing um reverend reverend
we we we had a discussion last week
about um the the visit you have pastor Anderson
that firstly against it you still are against it but he's here
what what what do you say in response to what he's just been saying
uh I I wonder if this man is a Christian and
the way he says the things I doubt his Christianity because Christians
Christianity is all about love love God with all your soul and mind with
you all your strength and love your neighbor as much as you love yourself
so if somebody say he hates people I doubt if
we're in the right path we are in the same track me and him well he doesn't
he didn't say he hates people he says yeah
no I did say that I hate people oh yeah I do hate homosexuals
hate homosexuals I only hate homosexuals though I do not hate other
people yeah only homosexuals are people you
know they're part of the society why do we hate them
that's why the reason why Jesus Christ died for us is for us to repent
each and everyone and one one makes us to think that God is only for
those who are not homosexuals God is God for all of us either you're a gay or
gay we all belong to God that's why he gave the sun to
those who don't even believe in him either you're a Muslim or Islamic
whatever religion you are he is still our God
and I know I can't take it when I hear
a God-fearing person someone who claims to be a preacher of the word to say
that he hates homosexuals what makes him to be special than
other people what makes him to think that he is better than other people
even all himself he's we are all sinners that's why he just came here
and we have to preach the gospel of we have to preach the gospel of love
me and him well you know what God showed what he
thought about homosexuals when he destroyed
Sodom and Gomorrah and in the New Testament he refers back to that
and he says even as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities about them in like
manner giving themselves over to fornication
and going after strange flesh or queer flesh
are set forth for an example suffering the vengeance of eternal
fire so if you want an example of what God thinks about homosexual
it's fire and brimstone being rained on Sodom and Gomorrah I don't know
what Bible this guy's reading but open the Bible to Genesis 19 and it's
crystal clear I guess we have to know the Bible and
the context of the Bible why was the Bible written in that way
and the context of the people they were writing about that time we have
to contextualize the Bible make the Bible talk to us
like now not to talk to the people like if you used to talk to them
some years ago like right now when the Bible says if you sin if your eye
make you sin you should poke your eye I've seen a lot
of us we are sinning because we are seeing beautiful girls
but we are all all of us we have all our eyes why do we take part of the Bible
and make it a and just take on part of the Bible
never say if you are an adult you must go to death the woman was
supposed to be told to death by the time of Jesus
but we have people seeing people in church doing all this thing people
everywhere are doing that but we never say because people are
doing that even prostitution we are not killing them they are part of the
society we talk to them I do believe that
adulterers should be stoned to death right I believe the death penalty
should be on adultery and when our country was founded in America
the Massachusetts bay colony and in the first few hundred years of America
adultery and homosexuality were both punished by the death penalty
in America in the 1700s 1800s it's the Bible it's the word of God so
what's changed well I did they start reading a
different Bible well part of it is that no no no no
this is a different Bible no no they're not reading a different Bible you know
they contextualize the Bible they make the Bible to talk to them and this
present situation that's why we say the Bible should come every time we
cannot talk to the make the Bible to pray the same gospel that we are
preaching to two thousand years ago by the time of Jesus we make the
Bible to talk to us in a any situation that that's why we say we
are contextualizing in our context in our situation in our
area how do we understand God that way
that's why you see when we baptize we baptize in a different way because
people say we have to take somebody to a demo to a river but in people
in a country where there is no rivers what do you do we use a small cup
as long as the importance of it would be water and the word of God
right that is wrong we still don't people underwater
they need to be baptized underwater and Jesus Christ is the same
yesterday let me talk no it's not wrong let me explain to you
we as the most important thing is the word of God is water in the word of
God if there's no if there's a in a
desert how are you going to baptize people in the desert where there's no
you think that the word of God changes the Bible says Jesus Christ is the same
yesterday and today and forever and you think you're smarter than the Bible
with your little cup of water you need to dunk somebody in a bathtub if
you can't find a river you find a swimming pool and if
there's no water and if there's no water you do what i do if there's no
water then human beings would be dead because human beings can't live
without water everywhere human beings live i mean
you know water to deep inside can i can i jump in there
i'm still here guys pastor anderson reverend manpan has brought in an
interesting an interesting point with regards to
the cup of water in the river and whatnot
and i think it goes back to his um his point of
contextualizing everything that we read in the bible
uh you know contemporary world now this issue about the the you're
saying a tub and yet he's saying that in the
past they were using rivers so wouldn't you be then deviating from
what no okay the bible does not say you have to
use a river okay but it says that we are
buried with him by baptism okay buried under the water it pictures the
death burial and resurrection of jesus christ
and when jesus was baptized he went down into the water
he came up out of the water this guy thinks that he's better than jesus
christ time there were enough rivers at that time
what about even in a dozen like busan what are you going to do if deep in
khalakad whether it's not even a stream what
are you going to use yeah okay so you you you do not agree
with his position not at all i even doubt
his position as a pastor yes yeah yeah he thinks he can just ignore the bible
and do whatever he wants and baptize people with a little
sprinkle what if you are wrong pastor anderson
have you ever thought about it i know for a fact have you ever thought about
it that absolutely a minute i'm only human
what if my position and in fact in fact i've thought about it often but
one thing i know is never wrong is the bible
the word of god i may be wrong the bible is never wrong
and you'll never find this little cup of water sprinkling nonsense in the
bible they go under the water they come
out of the water it pictures the death
burial and resurrection of jesus christ and if you can't find water you
better go look for some water and dunk them
so so um what all these other churches are doing the catholics are
doing it so you got all these
billions of people in the world who are doing that
yeah actually doing the wrong thing oh they're ignoring lots of the bible
they ignored the part about homosexuality right they ignore the
part about baptism so they're going to hell basically
but but may i may ask you because i don't know the bible says the woman
doesn't have to say anything in a church they have to come and sing and
go back home but we see people women a lot of
churches here the ministers are the women and we still
i don't respect that no minister should be a woman the bible says that women
should keep silent in the church and that men are to preach in church
and any female pastor is in disobedience to god's word
men are the preachers according to the bible let me bring in quickly because
i've got to go to the news headlines let me bring in um kane youngman here
kane you are you're you're a homosexual
and uh listening to pastor anderson saying
the government actually should kill you what do you say
well i have all sorts of issues with that and i'm
i'm glad that we live in botwana where the constitution actually protects
people from the freedom of conscience for me to be able to be
who i am for me to be able to practice whatever religion i choose
i have issues with pastor anderson is sitting here
saved and the real bible he's talking about is against him shaving
he's saving yeah he's well kept you're saying the bible never says
that shaving is wrong don't open that piece of junk this bible that the pastor
to my left has is not a real bible okay it's a new translation that takes out
entire verses hell god i have the king james bible
the original no wait wait wait wait let's not mislead the people here
even take off the bible now you have to talk to the some of us
uh because scholars i will tell you how did you create the bible
and what makes us to understand the bible you know that the first bible
in english absolutely i have a greek new testament i read the greek new testament
i'm familiar with that of course yeah but that bible that you have there
is a corrupted piece of junk piece of junk because they have taken out
entire verses you need a king james bible that
versus that bible takes out verses that are controversial it takes out the
word hell takes out bastard piss damn it takes out everything and softens it
up and that's why we have a bunch of soft preaching behind the pulpit
because they have this watered down fake bible instead of the real bible
the king james bible reggie that isn't what i wanted to say
was that my concern is that the way the approach that the pastor is using
is that right now almost every year we have
close to 400 dropouts school girls they drop out because of teenage
pregnancy and the bible said there must be
storms death with pastor anderson here
we're going to have no nobody nobody remaining in the world
so we nobody remaining in the world and from our setup in the family structure
in bojana most of us come from household where
we practice um where we practice
it's
no i'm trying to remember i don't need to
okay okay it's our cohabitation
cohabitation not only even back in america yeah no but he's saying it's
wrong because i've never i've never lived all over the world yes but
but that's what he's saying it's wrong what we are doing is wrong
yeah so exactly how many people are we going to
kill in bojana when is it enough yeah um pastor anderson where do you where
do you think homosexuals come from do you think they
they do it themselves they want to they want to be like that
i i think that they're evil haters of god and the bible says that he
gives them over to a reprobate mind in romans one
and he gives them the heart of a beast to do what an animal would do
first of all i'm not going to listen to somebody interpret the bible
or tell me what right and wrong is this guy doesn't even know
the proper place to put his his reproductive organ all right
this guy this guy absolutely he should be killed that's what the bible says
guys i know i'm sure he loves i'm sure he loves little boys too
homosexuals are pedophiles okay um can i can i say this
can i can i can i say this can can please just hold the thought because
i'm very late for the news headlines i'm gonna go to the news headlines
when we come back we'll continue with this discussion
like us on facebook at breakfast with reg the views and opinions expressed on
this show are not necessarily those of the
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dial three nine five six nine six two and have your say
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742 is your time a very good morning to you thank you so much for being
with us on breakfast with reg welcome to the second part
of the point and uh you for those of you who've been
listening um uh just before the news headlines you know what what it is that
we are talking about i can see this so many of you want to
to jump in and start talking about this but i'm gonna have to
ask you to hold off for a little while controversial anti-pasta
uh anti-gay pastor steve anderson uh arrived in butswana last thursday
held his first church service in butswana on sunday
he says he has already diagnosed that butswana
are our colleagues and has attacked local pastors
for being toothless because they are not preaching against the huge
immorality in this country he also says that the government
he believes that the government must kill homosexuals and pedophiles
pregnant school girls and that if slavery
you you you'll correct yourself sir if slavery
we are allowed in the bible he would support it and that
women must never be allowed to preach in churches
he has rubbished the good news bible as a piece of junk and that the king
james bible is the only bible that should be read now anderson is here
with us in the studio and he's going head to head with
reverend tabo mampani and kane youngman kane youngman is from
nihabibo reverend mampani is the second vice president of the butswana
council of churches and pastor at the evangelical lutheran church
in butswana pasta anderson is the founder and pasta at
faithful word baptist church in the united states well the
bcc the butswana council of uh churches
released a statement denouncing um the utterances
by uh pasta anderson and uh they were saying that
this is not what the bible preaches the bible preaches love and
and and all those uh things um but let's continue with the discussion i'm
going to be taking your calls on three nine five six nine six two one four nine
six three is the sms line and breakfast with rich
is our facebook page plus i understand you were saying that no you didn't say
that yes i i never said that pregnant
school girls should be killed that is not true that's what this
homosexual to my right accused the bible of saying but
obviously a homosexual is not qualified to teach us what the bible says
he doesn't even know the difference between man and woman okay what
what what was the the statement that you you made the point that you made
with regards to the bible and um
getting pregnant out of wedlock exactly the bible is saying pregnancy out
of wedlock it says so in um leviticus 2010-12
i was saying the reverend the pastor should explain and what does it say
what does it say about getting pregnant out of wedlock
if you get pregnant or if you lie about your virginity before you get
married you should be taken to the city center
and be stoned to death so if you can explain how is that different from
what i was saying he's making things up
and he said oh it's it's leviticus 20 verse 10 leviticus 20 verse 10 says no
such thing yes you did well everybody heard that's
fine we cannot go about which which recipes
is that what the bible says that is not what it says okay what does it
say the bible says that if if a girl
you know gets pregnant out of wedlock if a man and a woman have intercourse
okay and they're not married that the man has to marry the girl
if she and her father are willing to give her to him in marriage
and if they're not willing to give her to him in marriage he has to pay
the family money for taking away her virginity 50 shekels of silver all
right that's what it says so it's not it's not a it's not a big issue
then no no god does not punish people
with death for having sex outside of marriage
he punishes adultery with that that's when married people also people can
have uh sex no they cannot it is a sin
but it is not the government's job to punish because
there's a difference between crime and sin right okay
so it's a sin but it should not be a crime adultery should be a crime
murder is a crime but if we were if every sin were a crime we would all go
to jail every day because we all sin you know nobody's perfect
right but these huge things like murder adultery rape
those are crimes right okay those should be punished by the government it's
not the government's job to punish drunkenness or fornication their sins
what is okay but but they're sins but it's it's not
the government job to fix the alcohol problem it's the
preachers need to get some you know get more
manly and preach harder against sin instead of being a bunch of sissies
okay help us help us understand this um
crime and sin help help us understand the difference
yes well sin is anytime we disobey anything
that the bible tells us anytime we disobey the commandments so lying is a
sin disobeying our parents is a sin stealing is a sin drinking alcohol is a
sin but those should not be against the
law right so bible is lying should not be punished
by the government exactly right so even if you were to lie to the courts
you should not be punished well if you lie under oath in a courtroom that
is punished what is this what is the difference
well because the bible says that thou shalt not bear false witness against
thy neighbor so if you go into court so it's a sin you bear false
witness that is a crime in court it's a crime how do you
justify that it's a crime if it goes to court
and it should be punished as opposed to
just lying in general this is why because in the law of god which is
found in exodus leviticus numbers in
deuteronomy the bible says that if you go to court and you testify
against someone falsely you are to be punished by the
government whatever the punishment was for the person you are accusing you
receive that punishment okay that's a crime whereas drinking i
believe drinking is a sin but i do not believe that it should be
against the law because the bible does not ever give the authority to the
government to punish drinking or or to punish
fornication you know people who have sex outside of marriage
so there's a difference between crime and sin
all right okay um you i i wanted you to to
to finish off what you were saying and pastor anderson is not missing his
words he's saying that um the way he's making references
to you uh he says that you should be you should
be you should be killed that's homo he calls you that's
homosexual to my right what do you think of all of this
that he's saying oh for me it's simple the pastor needs
help yeah he's a very sick man the way he
says he really needs help how what do you mean he's sick in
terms of what because it it would seem like
he dictates terms of what to use in the bible and what not
listen to him justifying certain things things that are there in black and white
he's justifying things to suit himself
you see this is what i find disturbing this is why
there is a constitution to say okay we as human beings
we always have different opinions but for us to at least
live peacefully and civilly amongst each other this is why we have a
constitution it's because of people like
pastor here are you i i uh pastor are you
are you sorry and i think it will be pro it's unproper to call this guy a
pastor he just said the gentleman next to me because
i doubt him being a pastor a pastor cannot at all with kind those kind of
ways give us our beg of your
breadcrumb
as a pastor so i'll give him that respect and call him a pastor
i don't care whether he calls me this homosexual in my right he can
disrespect me all the way it's kind of funny that this man
it's kind of funny when somebody who likes to eat dung who likes to eat feces
calls you that you need help i need help this guy
has sex with other men right i mean any normal person even if they're not
even a christian knows that that's disgusting and filthy
okay now let me give you my background okay my background is that i
was born and raised in a christian home in the united states
i've gone to a baptist church my entire life my dad was an electrician
his dad was an electrician and before that electricity had not been invented
yet okay and so i grew up in church i love
the bible i love the word of god and i preach the bible i don't care
what some council of churches says somewhere i'm gonna go with what the
bible says yes there are false prophets in the
bible hundreds of false prophets and when elijah stood up
and elijah was the only one preaching the truth there were 850 phony
preachers who were lying to the people you
have nine kids just this guy is like a prop just to bail
just a sec just a sec uh ref please um pastor understand
you've got nine kids yes i'm married and with nine children right
you you you are 35 years old 35 years old
and you started when you started your own church at 24
when i was 24 you believe that you're destined to be
yes i do absolutely i believe that god has chosen me to be a prophet to the
nations to preach the word of god and to sound it out with no fear with
boldness not like these preachers who are only interested in people's money
so they tell them what they want to hear for money i don't i don't want
your money i want to preach the truth and you
can like it or love it do you do you believe that you you spew
hate speech do you believe that um you
the way your approach is it may be uncomfortable for some people
do you believe that it could be wrong my approach is not wrong because
if you read isaiah jeremiah ezekiel and then you read about jesus and
the apostle paul they preached our jesus the bible tells
jesus yelled when he preached he called pastors like this guy to my
left who wear long robes he said the sadducees and the
pharisees were serpents and vipers and he said they were of the devil and
he said beware of the scribes that like to go in
long robes he said watch out for those guys so you you you believe that
he's false absolutely you believe that all of those that
uh weigh the same kind of well i think that some
some might just wear the long robes through ignorance because they have not
read that verse in mark chapter 12 where jesus said
beware of the preachers who go in long robes
they might be ignorant this guy to my left is for sure false
because he thinks homosexuality is fine you know
that is just so contrary to the bible why did god destroy sodom and gomorrah
because they were filthy homosexuals are you the judge
god is the judge god is the judge okay leave this guy this guy is a fake
and we cannot come and entertain our feet we are not there to see who we are
not here for a debate we are here for a for for talking for discussing for
dialoguing to know what is the way forward
what are we saying about about the gays about the lesbians in the society
and if somebody a fake person like this who claims to be a pastor
say it talks like this except expect us the less not to listen to this
kind of rubbish and we said this is a good feeling
person i doubt his christianity i doubt himself
i doubt his love because christianity is all about love and christianity is all
is all about compassion you've got love for your neighbor love for your
god love for your every person and this guy next to me claims to be a
christian anyway want us to listen to this well he's a
waste of time that's what he's saying you're false he's himself is a
force the way he uttered these speeches he's not even preaching he's not he's
quoting he's quoting out of context the quote that he's doing is out of
context but reverend have you ever but reverend have you ever
i was asking him the same thing have you ever maybe
at one point in your life said to yourself
maybe i'm doing things things the wrong with maybe this is not what god is
saying i should do maybe that what i'm preaching is is
is wrong my brother i went for theological studies okay
don't take me like any other person you see around my lectures in the
university will tell you that i was one of the best students in my time i
did my i did my diploma in personal theology i've got my degree in
theology i've got masters in theology i've studied theology
that doesn't make you right that doesn't make you right listen listen
listen listen rich i will stand and i will stay and go for
counseling to know to want to know my questions
and to feel what is my question saying to me and i'll ask people
elderly persons other elderly persons to preach for me if at all i think i
am out of the context i always want people to come and
correct me those who understand the scripture better than myself
i'll go to the bishop i'll go to either the catholic bishop
and we discuss things and to ask him if god is still in control am i
am i still relevant for now if i'm not relevant i will leave the ministry
right yes right pastandes and what do you say to that
well i think that the listeners at home are smart enough to figure out
who's fake and who's not let them decide and this guy can brag about all
his theological degrees and brag about all these accolades
you know what i got i got the holy spirit and the word of god
and the bible says in leviticus 2013 that if a man
no listen don't think any spirit is the spirit from god what makes you that the
spirit that tells you that is the spirit of god you should know spirit
maybe i fall in the spirit of because the spirit that tells me that
agrees with the bible in leviticus 2013
when it says that if a man lie with mankind as he lies with a woman
both of them have committed an abomination they shall surely be put
to death their blood shall be upon them if the
bible agrees with my spirit then i got the holy spirit you have an
unclean spirit right that spirit is yours my brother
that's why i say you're against people well you know what i love people too
i love children which is why i hate pedophiles and you can't love the
flowers without hating the weeds you can't love the flowers without
hating the weeds uh three nine five six nine six two three nine five six
nine six two that's the number that i would like you to call me on right
now um one four nine six is the sms line
and um breakfast with ranch is our facebook page i'm so exhausted right
now from hearing you guys not even me speaking but hearing
you guys ranch the mochana pastor should cool down please advise him
another one says pastor anderson is absolutely right in everything
please ask directions to the church uh wanna go visit
this from bse another one said reverend manpani anger is a sin come down
ra kroha holowa huh kroha holowa full of food
bitter must read in actual fact um i'll tell you
just one thing that is that is actually happening as we speak
uh pastor anderson is arrogant wasn't he briefed about sejuana culture
kantia ahahona a reformed homosexual limite
reworking both sides and uh another one says
another one says um i like anderson being straight but i disagree with death
penalty for gays we are under grace so we preach to
them to repent but lampani is such if um
i get it before i take one or two calls before i go to the news
directions to the church okay directions so the church let me give
the directions yes okay so hey hey be quiet i'm giving the
directions hey he said they want it we're giving
it to him you go down the tlok wang road
if riverwalk is on your right you're heading toward the tlok wang road
and you get to a service station on the right that is called one
filling station you turn right at the filling station
and you curve around the filling station second dirt road on the right
it is plot 5856 and so uh that's how people get to the church we have
services sunday mornings at 10 30 a.m sunday evenings at 6 p.m
wednesday evenings at 6 p.m and tlok wang it's very close to the one
filling station just right behind it you curve around take the second dirt
road on the right there's a lot happening in the studio
this morning i see immigration officials
uh just outside the studio we are trying to find out what they are doing
here because i know i don't have an interview with them i don't
know whether they are here for you pastor anderson
um talking about immigration they they um we
we understand the way you had to to get to buzwana
is um through uganda is that it? Ethiopia
you can't go through the uk? no i cannot go through the uk cannot go
through johannesburg or cape town because of your sentiments
well because i've been banned from south africa and the united kingdom
because they're afraid of what i have to say they're afraid of the
truth yes so they want to silence me because they know that the words that
i'm preaching from the bible have power and they're scared
right of the truth all right three nine five six nine six two gabes
affirm your life
the bible says satan he must create
like the angel of light right i i hear that i hear that most people work out
on the church should preach love should
preach love should preach love but remember that satan went and talked
through peter
what's your point what's your point is it like
they they are the bible is straight and forward
there is no there is no like eggy all the things that he gave
okay thank you so much gabs you're live
hey my name is just a quick one um you know what
what the pastor anderson is preaching is definitely hate
not being a christian i'm against the homosexuality not the homosexuals love
the people hate the scene we should differentiate the two that's
what i can say okay thank you sir gives up from your
life hello yes go on please how are you
you know what i i i for me i just want to to say i don't have to
listen to any of the past is there right talking there are certain things
that when we were created as human beings
you're literally given brains to think there are certain things that
gives you the shrink or the that that feeling when something that you're doing
is wrong like a quotient thing so certain things like maybe
homosexuals it still gives you that feeling that
is not right but you still go back to your
testament your your ten commandments as a as a christian to read the bible says
love thy neighbor so and for pastor anderson to say kill
homosexual for me it's a bit i don't know who's
supposed to do the killing okay like is it him or whoever because
the bible says do not kill at the same time
thank you so much mister anderson are you eating yes the is
is the judge i'm sorry what was are you judging
isn't that what the bible yeah but no the bible says that we should
this is what jesus said judge not after the appearance
but judge righteous judgment the bible says
do you not know that the saints shall judge the world
and if the world shall be judged by us he said we're going to judge
angels how much more things that pertain to this life
so they take that verse judge not that's not the whole verse they need
to read the whole passage matthew seven verses one through five
because he tells you just don't be a hypocrite when you judge once you
get the beam out of your own eye then you can take the speck out of
your brother's eye because you're not being a hypocrite okay
have you taken the speck out of your eye well absolutely because i i am faithful
to my wife i don't just you know have sex with everything that
moves okay pastor stephen stephen hansen founder and pastor at faithful
world uh word baptist church in the united states
uh reverend tom oman panasek and vice president of the buzzwana council of
churches and pastor at the evangelical lutheran church in in buzzwana king
young man from lehabibo he's the advocacy officer there i'm gonna go to the
news bulletin we are going to continue this discussion on the other side
because i haven't been able to take your calls i can see
lili di toronto niana but like i was saying immigration officials for
for the first time ever they're here and i believe that they want to have a
word with uh pastor anderson we'll try to find
out what the whole issue is about
8 12 is your time very good morning to you thank you so much for being with
us on breakfast with reg and uh welcome we're still
continuing with this discussion that we are having with regards to
um the presence of pasta anderson in the country
controversial anti-gay pasta arrived thursday
at the service on sunday and uh he's already identified
what he sees as problematic in in in our society in buzzwana and he says
you know alcoholism is a problem and he's also attacked pastas for
being um for being toothless saying that he
says that they are sissies because they are not preaching against the huge
immorality in the country he says the government must kill
homosexuals pedophiles and um that if silly slavery were allowed in the
bible he would support it and he doesn't
think that women should should be allowed to preach in
churches is rubbish the new good news
bible uh version as a piece of junk and that the king james bible is the
only bible that should be read anderson is here in the studio by
the way he's the founder and pastor at the faithful word baptist church in
the united states reverend tama bambani is also here second vice
president of the buzzwana council of churches and pasta at the evangelical
Lutheran church in in buzzwana kane youngman is an
advocacy at the habibo i'm going to
go straight to the calls and then i'm going to ask you to make them very
brief because obviously there are so many of you who still want to
have a say and uh have to read your sms and your comments on our facebook
page gives up from your life hello make it we are among yes
ma'am
in the bible there's no way you cannot annoy people
who are preaching the compromised gospels because
apostle paul in the book of such that in galatian chapter one verse
eight early whoever preaches the gospel that they do not preach
is cursed so whoever is compromising what the bible says is cursed so
we are not going to compromise and brag about
things that are social illness like kore kohadi place in the mobile phone
water we should be praying that god should bless us with marriages
that god should heal our nation from uh homosexuality
so that our children can be freed from that evil spirit
right so basically you are agreeing with what has to understand is uh
this position all right thank you so much make ebsa from your life
i agree with your america plus tunderson yes
plus tunderson is on the right track i agree you know you cannot amend the
bible if god said uh homosexual should be
stoned to death not a thing i mean you cannot say no
because of the new testament god cannot change his mind
so what why are you not doing it no i agree with your government
amen it should be the government yes amen i agree with the caller it should
be a government okay so the pastor is on the right track thank you thank you
thank you from your life please go ahead sir yes
rajee pastor anderson is on point okay
the thing is we have people who are covering the truth with a lot of lies
god has never condoned the homosexuality from the onset
it is actually even repeatedly covered in most scriptures
hoorah is this thing but the problem is that
we are trying to use our human feelings to at least recover
and to cater for these people amongst us
you know having something that is sinful doesn't mean
hooray or we accept it it's kind of like we are living with those people
accept we need to have somebody who comes and wakens us
apart but this is not the right thing
we need to accept the truth homosexuality is not really what god is
condoning thank you i agree with gives us from
your life hello
yeah i wanted to comment about one scripture
yes
uh mentioned the scripture leviticus 20 verse 13
talking about the fact that if a man lies with mankind
as though it's a woman then they must be put to death
in leviticus 20 that's number 10
it says and the woman and the men that committed adultery
with another man's wife even he that committed adultery with his neighbor's
wife the adulterer and the adulterous shall
surely be put to death this is the same
vertical so i don't understand how pastor
anderson can choose i agree with both scriptures
i believe that adulterous should be put to death you have previously said
that that adultery is not a sin it i did not say that no no no
did you say it's also a crime or do you say you said it's a sin
not a crime no no i said it is a sin and a crime and i believe
both verse 10 and verse 13 they're both right
should also be put yes yes i do but previously you didn't
okay no that's okay it was a misunderstanding i've always
okay so he says all of them should both of them should be put to death
yes now even if it was to say that i was just pointing out that
previously he did not say that no that no it was a misunderstanding it's okay
the the the jesus that came to die for us
came for the reason that we should be loving
not to condemn other people i understand
another caller said that we should hate the thing
and love people i don't know why and where the bible says we should hate
people it says that we should hate him and
love people so there's nothing wrong with loving people and hating
sin okay this is what you should be preaching thank you so much me
gibbs up from your live
gibbs up from your live um hello who am i speaking to where you're
calling us from uh you're speaking to fraud um in
cabroni right um the the issue that
anderson is actually presenting yeah part of it is quite true
but the rest of the portion really is not what are you not in agreement with
yeah because um the issue of of a man sleeping with
another man this is a woman
sorry hello scripture in terms of the old testament and new tests
the old testament was subject to the earthly sanctuary
but currently we are dealing with a situation of the heavenly sanctuary
where in that way i'm gonna have to let you go your line is not clear i'm
sorry gibbs of him you're live hello good morning
really cleaning please go ahead um i'm so disappointed to see two gosh
generous in the studio who are contradicting one another
in the sense that they're supposed to be saying the same things because
they're preaching from the same gospel i agree with past i understand that god
is against um gays but the words that come from his
mouth some of them they're not fit because
the bible says that whatever comes from your mouth must be seasoned
so there is a way that he can portray this and tell the truth that
is from the gospel as for the other pastor i don't know
where he's getting this from as a man of god
what you know for you to have you have to have the inspiration of the
holy spirit to preach the cross path right
you can go you can have as many muscles as you want
but if god is not using you forget it right thank you so much so we are
told about love what is talking about love and if you
kill a person because they are gay you have not solved the problem because
you are killing the flesh but that spirit that was at work with them
they're going abroad elsewhere so we need to pray for such people
and we don't need to judge them but to preach the gospel and tell them from the
scripture that god does not like this right because we understand that gays
thieves you know people who phone a case people who lie
it's not they're not responsible for that there's a spirit behind that
okay thank you so much gives a from your life
my point um to pastor anderson i agree with everything you say except the
fact that you're saying people should be killed
you know when we come to god as soon as he has given us
another chance to repent i believe that homosexuals
they can come to their senses and begin to repent god can
gear them from heaven can i ask you something can i ask you something
because we we need to be very brief um if you're agreeing with everything
that past anderson has said and you do not agree with what he's saying
with regards to stoning of homosexuals how then
do you do you um justify that because he's saying
that the reason why he's saying that about homosexuals
is because the bible says that that is why i'm saying
with what he is saying i don't agree with the point that people should be
true because everyone goes wait wait wait if he says that's what
the bible says how can you not agree with that if you agree with
everything else that he says what listen to what i'm saying in old
god that was he's quoting from the big of the
book of lakita but we are coming to a there's a there's a room
for repentance nobody is being killed the only person who can kill somebody
nobody has been given the authority to be to kill god came down because he
jesus came down because every buddha was a sinner but my point
is that when we repent god has given us a second chance to repent from
every whether for me caters when adult truck almost
homosexuals that is why he's saying whoever is doing this thing this thing
homosexual for negated will not inherit the kingdom of god
but he is giving us another chance to repent and when you repent and leave
according to his word which says we should
do this and that we then can inherit the kingdom of god thank you so
much no one is allowed to kill anyone thank you gabs
fm you're live hello
uh yes i wanted to just uh ask a pastor understand one question
um do you believe that uh everybody has the right
uh to to to i mean do you does he believe that he was given the right to
be a child of god or does he believe that he believes that
everybody has the right to be a child of god
okay gabs up from your live what are you reading that the human
minimum we're andrew jabor in
um i'd like to address uh that guy please go ahead we don't have time for
that uh morning uh just say what you
want to say sir okay i'd like to i'd like to find
out from him what he thinks should happen to people with aids
what should happen to two children born out of wedlock
that is not their fault why why aids in particular
because he has he has acted about what should happen to people with aids i'd
like to know his thoughts on what should happen with people with aids
and if he's saying he's saying that he's not violent
what did he do to an old man at his church on sunday what did him and
his people do to an old man at his church on sunday no you tell us
we don't know what the man handled the man handled an old
an old man pushed him out of the church and physically handled him
why what happened he he he is saying he doesn't believe no
no what had happened you are giving us parts of his
story what happened okay did he handle the man
the man or not what happened i don't what what
what led to that happening he thought that
the old man was a homosexual so they started pushing him and handling
and pushing him out of the church oh the man was not a homosexual
okay and they thought he was and they started man handling and pushing him out
of they just looked at him and they they they they vetted him as
homosexual no okay i think it was because of the
utterances of what he was trying to say thank you so much say gives a
family of the last caller hello you're the last caller be
brief please thank you hello okay gives a
the last color
right
thank you sir you want to respond to the church incident
yeah absolutely uh when we had the church service on sunday morning
there were four foreigners who came to the church none of them were
batswana they were all foreigners who came to the church there were about
six of them holding up signs protesting us
and there was an old man who told me that he was a homosexual
right and i told him that he must leave and after asking him to leave
two times politely i took him and i dragged him out and bouncers do it in
bars every day because it's our private property
you're not a bar yes but but we have the right to
not allow homosexuals into the church the bible says
aren't you there to to help them you cannot help the homosexual in
romans chapter one how can you not help them because in romans chapter one
it says god gave them up god gave them over god gave them up it's too
late for them okay so the all the homosexuals through
there's nothing there's nothing we can do for them it's too late for them
we have to re-educate ourselves here we have to re-educate the reason that
just christ that for us is for us to repent and to have internal life
so whoever is a sinner is a sinner is purified by jesus christ
either a gay either a lesbian whatever sinner that he's doing
god is purifying us through jesus christ and through the blood of jesus
christ what do you say to that past understand
i say that in the new testament of the bible romans chapter one
it says that these people have been given up by god
given over by god and in verse 32 it says that homosexuals are worthy of
death romans 1 32 new testament so who else has
been given up by god the bible teaches it only mentions the
fact that people who have rejected the lord
over and over again right have been given over by god and that because of
that pain have you rejected the the lord
have you rejected the lord no no he's a liar
okay why because the bible says that the
that the reason why a man would lust with a man
burn and lust toward a man is because he's been rejected by god no normal man
lusts after another you haven't rejected god because these that's who
you want that's what you know you know you don't know anything else
yep that's how i was born that's how
always felt as a kid growing up and everything
and like him we're also raised in a christian family i went to a catholic
kindergarten catholic junior school catholic high school
so i honestly don't understand who appointed pastor anderson the messiah
to judge to point out who is right and who is wrong and i
thought for me i thought church was a place of god
church was a haven where people can come and ask for
souls pastor yes how do you then um get rid of somebody who
maybe maybe there to say to you please save me
he's not there for that he was there to know i'm asking i'm asking
yeah what if he's there and he needs to be safe he may be there to
start trouble but he may be needing a lot of
save yeah if anybody needs to be saved i would love to get them saved
but the bible says that if they're a homosexual they've already been
given up they've already been given over
it's too late reverend but we have to wrap this up
with with the position that pastor anderson is taking and i must apologize
because i haven't read a lot of the SMS that have come through
with the position that pastor anderson is is taking you still
believe that he is lost very lost very lost but there are some people who
are saying and and i think this this this issue of homosexuality is the one
that everybody is centering on and they
are saying which bible are you reading the only thing is that people that
they quote the bible out of context they just take one chart one verse and
they quote it and they don't even know the origin of the text or the origin of
the bible why was that happening to that to the
people we have to re-educate this nation
and i always tell the pastor that it is our task as the minister's word and
sacrament that we have to re-educate our own people so that
not every every jacob comes like this this gentleman next to me here comes
they follow him because he can quote and he can say whatever you want to
say and he thinks they think he's right we have to know the bible and
understand it why was it to whom was he addressing what's what was
he addressed what situation was he facing
what part wrote this to the to the romeans right yeah
um um kane would what would you say to pastor
anderson in conclusion for me that
i'm
my brother's guys want a pastor don't let's use the word past ourselves
i have to give him respect because he identifies himself he might not
despite the fact that he doesn't just respect me that's fine
hannah
you spew so much hate and you're saying that people cannot come to church even
though they need to be saved basically like i
was saying here's the problem here's the problem
okay i have nine children at my church how can i let homosexuals into
my church when i know that they're child molesters
it's too dangerous why do you say that child molesters because
if you study the history of homosexuality even back to ancient
talking about history okay why would you say why would you say
kane for instance is a child molester because
every single story in the bible that involves homosexuals they are raping
someone they are violating someone okay they are
not children oh yes children absolutely and look at
the statistics of how many little boys are molested by
grown men let's talk about kate for instance kate have you had
molested a little boy no he's a liar okay he's a liar you
know that he has sex with strangers no that's what homosexuals do but
that's not the point you i think you're sketching the
issue i'm asking have you had sex with children he says no
and you're saying he's lying there's no skirting the issue he's lying if i
have to choose between believing what the bible says about homosexuals
about the bible we are talking about you i'm talking about maybe
but at this point in time we are talking about you accusing him
of having slept with small boys i am accusing him
of being a pedophile if he's not done it yet he will do it later
because the history shows us that the news reports tell us that
the bible demonstrates homosexuals not to be reproducers would you hug your
recruiters no i don't want to touch him he's you know he's dirty you don't
want to touch him i know where he's i know where he's been
right where he's been digging around and it's disgusting okay
it's unsanitary this is so much for the pasta it's unsanitary
we're gonna have to leave it there thank you so much guys for coming
through pasta anderson is uh founder and pasta at the faithful
word baptist church in the united states reverend tabo mampati
second vice president of the botwana council of churches and pasta at the
evangelical Lutheran church in botwana kane youngman is from lehabibo and his
advocacy officer there pastor anderson i i i i pray to
the almighty that before you go if uh immigration officials are not going to
be whisking you out of the country anytime soon or we are understanding
that even intelligence officials now intelligence agents may be around if you
are not being whisked out of the country anytime soon
i hope you before you leave you'll come and speak to us again thank you
i'd be glad to thank you so much gentlemen