🎵Dramatic Music🎵
🎵Dramatic Music Intensifies🎵
Good morning everyone, welcome to Steadfast Baptist Church.
If you could please find your seats and grab your song books.
We're going to turn to 413, Stand Up, Stand Up for Jesus.
Song 413, Stand Up, Stand Up for Jesus.
🎵Dramatic Music Intensifies🎵
Alright now, we just got back, some of us from the Red Hot Preaching Conference.
The music's really loud, and everyone loved it.
If you want to make the music better here, it's you.
You gotta sing, you gotta sing out nice and loud just like you would at a conference.
Let's sing it out to the Lord this morning, on the second, ready?
🎵Dramatic Music Intensifies🎵
Alright, let's open up in a word of prayer.
Heavenly Father, thank you for this day, this opportunity to serve you, to worship you.
I just pray that we would never take it for granted, that you fill our hearts with love for you this morning,
and that you just bless this service, every aspect of it.
We love you, in Jesus' name we pray, Amen.
Alright, for our second song, we're going to flip over to 205.
He keeps me singing.
Song 205.
He keeps me singing.
205, he keeps me singing.
🎵Dramatic Music Intensifies🎵
🎵There's within my heart a melody🎵
🎵Jesus whispers sweet and low🎵
🎵Fear not, I am with thee, please be still🎵
🎵In all of life's ebb and flow🎵
🎵Jesus, Jesus, Jesus🎵
🎵Sweetest name I know🎵
🎵Fills my every longing🎵
🎵Keeps me singing as I go🎵
🎵All my life was wrecked by sin and strife🎵
🎵This chord filled my heart with faith🎵
🎵Jesus slept across the broken streets🎵
🎵Stirred the slumbering chords again🎵
🎵Jesus, Jesus, Jesus🎵
🎵Sweetest name I know🎵
🎵Fills my every longing🎵
🎵Keeps me singing as I go🎵
🎵Feasting on the riches of His grace🎵
🎵Resting beneath His sheltering wing🎵
🎵Always looking on His smiling face🎵
🎵That is why I shout and sing🎵
🎵Jesus, Jesus, Jesus🎵
🎵Sweetest name I know🎵
🎵Feels my every longing🎵
🎵Keeps me singing as I go🎵
🎵Though sometimes He leads through waters deep🎵
🎵Dry His fall across the rain🎵
🎵Though sometimes the path seems rough and steep🎵
🎵See His footprints all the way🎵
🎵Jesus, Jesus, Jesus🎵
🎵Sweetest name I know🎵
🎵Fills my every longing🎵
🎵Keeps me singing as I go🎵
🎵Soon He's coming back to welcome me🎵
🎵Far beyond the starry sky🎵
🎵I shall wing my flight to worlds unknown🎵
🎵I shall reign with Him on high🎵
🎵Jesus, Jesus, Jesus🎵
🎵Sweetest name I know🎵
🎵Fills my every longing🎵
🎵Keeps me singing as I go🎵
Good morning. Thank you so much for coming to Steadfast Baptist Church.
If you didn't already get a bulletin and you would like one,
you can just lift up your hand nice and high,
and one of our ushers will be able to come by.
Just keep that hand up for just a second.
On the front, we have our Bible memory passage.
We're working on Psalm 58, and we're specifically on verse 5,
so any kiddos that can give this or quote this verse at our midweek service
can receive an ice cream treat immediately following the service.
On the inside, we have our service times and soul winning times.
The churchwide meets here at 2 on Sundays and 515 on Wednesdays,
and we get organized and then head out.
Also, there's several regional times throughout the DFW area,
and they kind of meet in different parts of the DFW, of course, all this area.
If you would like to go to any of these regional soul winning times,
we would love for you to join us just so we have an idea.
Brother Jeff, what part of town have you been going in?
Okay, Southwest Fort Worth, Mondays.
Is Brother Malton here this morning? I didn't know if I saw him or not.
I think he goes in all kinds of different areas, a lot of even the central parts.
Also, the ladies, they've been kind of going in the central DFW area.
Brother Suhail, where are you going on Thursdays?
Carrollton, so if you're anywhere near the Carrollton area, Thursday.
Again, Friday, Brother Malton's been kind of going all over different areas.
Saturdays, are we still doing Arlington? Is that kind of generally?
Yes, South Arlington right now.
Okay, South Arlington area on Saturdays.
Brother Illy, are you doing on this area?
Yes.
Okay, so there's also, if you're kind of closer to this area on Saturdays,
and then sometimes we have some special, bigger soul winning pushes
that we kind of replace our Saturday times on.
So that's just to give you an idea if you're anywhere in any of these different areas,
that gives you kind of an idea.
Talk to those leaders and they'll be able to help you.
Also, you can always just ask your soul winning captains or lieutenants about soul winning.
We have four tribes currently, and so you can always ask them,
Brother West, Brother Oz, Brother Banik, or Brother Milstead.
There are captains and stuff like that.
So if you want to go soul winning and you're not sure how or when,
or you just, maybe there's not a time on here that works best for you,
and there's another opportunity, reach out and maybe we could hook you up
or find other people that want to go soul winning around that time.
So we just really want to facilitate soul winning, make it as easy on you as possible.
I mean, honestly, you have every single day of the week, you have an option here,
already as a scheduled time, plus I know people go out soul winning that's not even on the bulletin.
And so we would just love to help people do this as much as possible.
Also, church stats are down below.
On the right, we have our expecting ladies list, several ladies there.
Please be praying for all of them. We also have a prayer list.
If you'd like to be added to our prayer list, we try to update it weekly,
and you can just email that in, or you can fill out on the communication card
any prayer requests that you have.
On the back, we have some church reminders.
Please make sure to keep your children off of the stage.
They shouldn't be going into the kitchen unattended,
and they shouldn't be going even in the mother baby rooms unattended.
That's mostly for like before and after services.
I know it's tempting for children to want to go in there,
but try to make sure that they're not going in there just for safety reasons.
Also, we do have a couple mother baby room areas,
and we've been working on making them a little bit better,
and hopefully we'll kind of be finished with those projects pretty soon.
But the mother baby rooms are just for mothers and their children.
Children should always be accompanied with their mother,
and also if you have children above the age of two
that you need to take into the mother baby room,
please make them sit with you while you're in the mother baby room.
If possible, just leave them with dad.
He can scare them into submission. I know it.
And if you are in that room, it is still to pay attention to the service,
so please be respectful of other people.
Please be quiet and try to pay attention to the sermon.
You can still take a Bible in there.
It won't vanish or anything if you take it in there with you.
Also, if you do choose to bring toys or your children bring toys,
please try not to have those out before or right after the service
because we don't want to cause any kind of issue or get something broken.
Or even probably the biggest reason is there's just so many little kids
and we don't want them to chew on it or be a choking hazard
or them to break your nice toy or something
because sometimes people even bring really nice things
with an electronic device or something like that,
and it's very likely a toddler could just pick that up, throw it on the ground,
and you know what? It'll be destroyed.
And if you say, hey, Pastor Shelley, some kid destroyed my toy,
I'll say you shouldn't have brought it.
You're like, what are you going to do about it?
Nothing. I already told you, so that was your fault.
Also, we have on Sunday afternoons, we kind of have a quiet time.
Basically what that is is we just dim half the lights in the sanctuary,
and it's just to accommodate mothers who bring little children.
I mean, they're going to take a nap no matter what,
and so we're just trying to make it a little more accommodating for them
if they want to kind of stay here.
Also, we're trying to be quiet, kind of like library time.
Obviously, it's not something where if you accidentally whisper something,
we're going to crucify you or anything,
but at the same time, you shouldn't be just talking overtly,
letting your kids be rowdy, running around.
There is a fellowship room, and so if you did want to have polite
or small conversation, you could go to that area,
but please just allow kind of the sanctuaries and stuff
to just be observed as kind of a quiet time.
You could read a book or just kind of relax or whatever.
So we just want to make sure that that's accommodating.
You say, well, I don't like that.
You can go anywhere else.
There's a park or restaurants or whatever.
Obviously, you can't appease everyone.
Not everyone is going to be happy or satisfied.
We're just trying to accommodate the most people that we can
and make it easy for people that have a sleeping child.
Down below, Upcoming Events, Mighty Men's Conference, August 17th to 19th.
There should be a sign-up sheet out there.
Is there definitely? Okay.
I know somebody was asking about that the other day.
Also, the Fire Breathing Baptist Fellowship, October 12th through the 15th,
and that is going to be something you want to mark down on your calendar.
That's pretty much all I have as far as announcements.
One other thing, we did make a film kind of just last minute.
We just kind of put it together.
It's not something that we necessarily put a ton of energy and effort into,
but honestly, it still came out pretty well.
We liked it, and we shared it with some of our church family on this past week.
We had an airing of it, but it's going to go live tomorrow night, 8 p.m.
If you didn't catch it and you still want to see our production,
it's going to go out on Rumble only on Monday at 8 p.m.
If you want to catch it, it's there.
We are going to have a little live stream during the thing
so you can chat with people and say, man, this is the best movie ever,
or whatever the spirit leads you to say, and everything like that.
We're not going to put it on a platform.
This is going to immediately take it down or anything like that
because it's just kind of wasted effort.
We'll put it out there.
If you want to share it, do so, and we'll just kind of see how things go.
It gives us an opportunity to kind of tell our story in a creative way,
things that have happened to us,
and even a little bit of what's happened to some of our friends.
Who already has seen the movie?
Oh, yeah, and everybody liked it, so okay, good.
No, I'm just kidding.
But I'm glad a lot of people have already gotten to see it,
and thank you so much for everybody who helps our church
and keeps showing up so we can even make projects like that.
It's a lot of fun to be able to release things like this.
It's not necessarily fun to make them,
but it's fun to be able to release them and to kind of enjoy them afterwards,
and so we look forward to continuing to make productions like this.
That's really all I have.
Let's go to Psalm 15 in our special handouts.
We'll sing it this morning.
Psalm 15 in your special Psalm handouts.
You could use a Bible if you have to, but it's easier with the music sheet.
All right, Psalm chapter number 15.
Let's sing it out nice and loud.
Psalm 15.
Shall abide in thy tabernacle,
who shall dwell in thy holy hill.
He that walketh up brightly and worketh righteousness,
and speaketh the truth in his heart.
He that backbiteth not with his tongue,
nor doeth evil to his neighbor,
nor taketh up on reproach again.
He that walketh up brightly and worketh righteousness,
nor taketh up on reproach against his neighbor.
He that backbiteth not with his tongue,
in whose eyes a vile person is content,
but he honoreth them that fear the Lord.
In whose eyes a vile person is content,
but he honoreth them that fear the Lord.
To his own hurt and changeth not,
he that putteth not out his money to use rate,
he that swearth to his own hurt and changeth not,
he that putteth not out his money to use rate,
nor taketh reward against the innocent,
he that doeth these things shall never be loomed,
nor taketh reward against the innocent,
he that doeth these things shall never be moved.
Lord, who shall abide in thy tabernacle?
Who shall dwell in thy holy hill?
All right, as the offering plates are being passed around,
please turn in your Bibles to Proverbs chapter 19,
Proverbs chapter number 19.
Proverbs chapter 19, the Bible reads,
Better is the poor that walketh in his integrity
than he that is perverse in his lips and is a fool.
Also that the soul be without knowledge, it is not good,
and he that hasteth with his feet sinneth.
The foolishness of man perverteth his way,
and his heart freteth against the Lord.
Wealth maketh many friends,
but the poor is separated from his neighbor.
A false witness shall not be unpunished,
and he that speaketh lies shall not escape.
Many will entreat the favor of the prince,
and every man is a friend to him that giveth gifts.
All the brethren of the poor do hate him.
How much more do his friends go far from him?
He pursueth them with words, yet they are wanting to him.
He that getteth wisdom loveth his own soul.
He that keepeth understanding shall find good.
A false witness shall not be unpunished,
and he that speaketh lies shall perish.
The light is not seemly for a fool,
much less for a servant to have rule over princes.
The discretion of a man defereth his anger,
and it is his glory to pass over a transgression.
The king's wrath is as the roaring of a lion,
but his favor is as dew upon the grass.
A foolish son is the calamity of his father,
and the contentions of a wife are a continual dropping.
House and riches are the inheritance of fathers
and a prudent wife is from the Lord.
Slothfulness casteth into a deep sleep,
and an idle soul shall suffer hunger.
He that keepeth the commandment keepeth his own soul,
but he that despiseth his way shall die.
He that hath pity upon the poor lendeth unto the Lord,
and that which he hath given will he pay him again.
Chasten thy son while there is hope,
and let not thy soul spare for his crying.
A man of great wrath shall suffer punishment,
for if thou deliver him, yet thou must do it again.
Hear counsel and receive instruction
that thou mayest be wise in thy latter end.
There are many devices in a man's heart,
nevertheless the counsel of the Lord that shall stand.
The desire of a man is his kindness,
and a poor man is better than a liar.
The fear of the Lord tendeth to life,
and he that hath it shall abide satisfied.
He shall not be visited with evil.
A slothful man hideth his hand in his bosom,
and will not so much as bring it to his mouth again.
Smite a scorner, and the simple will beware,
and reprove one that hath understanding,
and he will understand knowledge.
He that wasteth his father and chaseth away his mother
is a son that causeth shame and bringeth reproach.
Cease, my son, to hear the instruction
that causeth to err from the words of knowledge.
An ungodly witness scorneth judgment,
and the mouth of the wicked devoureth iniquity.
Judgments are prepared for scorners
and stripes for the back of fools.
Let's bow our heads for a word of prayer.
Father in heaven, we thank you for our services this morning
and also later this evening,
and I just pray that you would help us, Lord,
to take heed to the message,
to pay attention to what you've laid on our pastor's heart,
and also, Lord, to apply it to our lives
so that we can better glorify you in everything that we do.
We thank you for our pastor and his family for salvation
and all the blessings you've bestowed on us,
and in Jesus' name I pray, amen.
Amen.
So I'm continuing my series in what's called
The Shiny Happy People,
and this is a documentary that was released
by a bunch of God-hating atheists and freaks,
but specifically it's to call out fundamentalism
and the Duggars and a group called the IBLP,
which is the Institute of Basic Life Principles,
and this was pretty popular amongst a lot of fundamentalists,
you know, even people that are considered, quote, Baptists.
I think a lot of Baptists were in this group,
and in this documentary,
they definitely exposed some things
that I certainly disagree with Bill Gothard,
who was the main leader and founder of the IBLP,
and specifically the Duggars,
but even though I may strongly disagree with them
on a lot of issues, and I've already covered several of those,
they also, in this documentary,
try to just put shame on the Bible,
and they try to falsely accuse fundamentalists
of having bad practices or doing strange behavior,
and one of those specifically is in the area of discipline
or disciplining your children,
and so this morning I'm going to be focusing on
biblical discipline,
and really you could just title the sermon Discipline,
and when it comes to discipline,
we want to make sure that our views
are lining up with Scripture.
Now, that does not mean that everything that I have seen
from some of these other groups I agree with,
and I'm going to kind of address some of the things
that I strongly disagree with,
but the Bible's very clear that discipline
is a necessary thing for parents to do with their children.
If you truly love your children, you will discipline them,
and you're not going to discipline them the way that the world tells you.
You're going to discipline them the way that God tells you
and the way the Bible instructs us to discipline our children.
Now, again, on topics like this,
the Bible gives us a lot of really clear commandments
and a lot of clear instruction,
but then we have to use our own discernment
and our own kind of understanding
to then apply these things directly.
So this morning, I'm going to give you
a lot of just clear commandments from the Bible,
and then I'm going to give you my personal interpretation
and my personal application of a lot of these verses,
and I'm going to try and make the sermon
as practical as possible this morning
so that people aren't uncertain as to what I believe
or what I think is the best way for disciplining your children.
Now, here in Proverbs chapter 19,
we have a pretty interesting verse here,
and it says in verse 18,
Chasing thy son while there is hope,
and let not thy soul spare for his crying.
Notice that proper discipline provokes a certain response.
What is that response? Crying.
And if your child is not crying
as a result of the chastening or the discipline,
you're not doing it right.
It's not correct.
And look, I'll be honest with you.
This happens a lot,
where parents are, quote, disciplining their children,
but then the children are not crying or not upset
or it didn't affect them.
That was not discipline, okay?
Proper discipline is not something that's good
or you're going to enjoy it.
I mean, the Bible talks about us being chastening by the Lord
or being chastened by God,
and it says no chastening for the present
seemeth to be joyous but grievous.
So the only way for it to be chastening
is for it to be grievous and for the child to cry.
If the child is...
Obviously, you could have a really rare situation
where they just kind of take the punishment.
It did hurt, and they just kind of, like, take it.
But that's very rare.
You know, it's going to provoke crying 99% of the time,
and that's how you know that you're doing it correctly
because if it's not, well,
then it's not really doing what the Bible is instructing.
Also notice that there's only a certain amount of time
that you have to discipline your children.
There is going to come a day and an age
where they will no longer respond to discipline.
And so it's important to discipline your children
while you have the opportunity to discipline them
because many parents wish they could go back,
and they realize the repercussions
of not having disciplined their children,
but you can't fix what you have already broken.
You can't go back in time.
You can't, you know, retrofit all of your discipline
back to what you should have done in the past.
And so for a lot of you, you have young children.
A lot of people here are getting pregnant,
and you're starting out for the first time,
and it's good to get started on the right foot
and to chasing your children according to the Scripture.
Now, I'm going to look at a lot of Proverbs real quick.
Go to chapter 22 for a moment.
Go to chapter 22.
Let's look at what the Bible says on this topic.
Proverbs 22, verse 6.
The Bible says,
Train up a child in the way he should go,
and when he is old, he will not depart from it.
Now, there's something in this verse
that I don't know that I always really thought about as much,
but notice what it says.
It says, in the way he should go.
So notice that the training being mentioned here
is a moral training.
It's a righteousness training.
It's not just, it's not like just saying,
like, train him to be a plumber,
train him to be a baseball player.
No, no, no.
What is the training specifically mentioned here
in the Scripture in the way he should go?
Meaning, it's talking about righteousness,
it's talking about morality,
it's talking about doing the right thing,
and it's saying you need to train your children to do the right thing.
Why?
Because children are not going to do the right thing automatically.
You know what children do automatically?
Sin.
Okay?
They lie, they steal, they cheat,
they're rebellious, they're stubborn, they're selfish.
I mean, it's,
the Bible makes it clear,
and we'll look at this verse in a second,
but it says foolishness is bound in the heart of a child.
So, children are not coming out of the womb just ready to obey,
ready to follow God's commandments.
That was one child, and it was Jesus,
and you're not Mary, okay?
Even if your name's Mary, you're not that Mary, alright?
Okay?
And so, we have to realize our children need discipline,
and we are the ones that are supposed to do it.
You know, we as parents are supposed to be the ones
that should be training our children
and instructing them and telling them what's right
and teaching them what's right,
and notice if you do it to the child,
if you're teaching your children diligently
how to be a good person, how to be righteous,
they'll be righteous for the rest of their life.
Isn't that kind of a great promise to know,
hey, I have an opportunity to really impact my children
for their life?
And, you know, it's kind of sad
because I think also the flip side of this verse is true,
that if you train a child to do wicked,
oftentimes he's going to be wicked,
and you can even see this in statistics.
It's going to be in our film,
but there was a study done on identical twins,
so they did a study on identical twins
that have the exact same DNA,
so identical twins are a result from an egg splitting
at the very early stages of pregnancy or after conception,
and so they have the exact same genes,
and they've done these studies to determine,
okay, well, let's see if there's a gay gene, okay?
And they ended up studying it and said,
well, when one twin ends up becoming a sodomite or homosexual,
then the other twin ends up becoming homosexual 11 or 14%.
Now, that's very statistically important, okay,
for a couple reasons, at least two.
Number one, it proves beyond a shadow of a doubt
that there's no such thing as a gay gene.
There's no such thing as a gay gene, okay,
because if it was that there was a gay gene,
both of them would have it,
and that would mean that they would always 100% of the time
both be homosexual.
So just like if you have identical twins
and they have one hair gene, one of them's blonde,
the other one's going to be blonde 100% of the time.
One of them's white,
the other one's going to be white 100% of the time.
One of them's black,
the other one's going to be black 100% of the time.
That's the whole point of genes, okay?
That's the point of genetics,
and that's the point of being identical.
So if there was such a thing as a gay gene, quote, unquote,
then it would be there 100% of the time.
So it's just fact.
There is no one born homosexual.
It does not happen that way.
The only reason someone becomes a homosexual,
according to the scripture,
is that they hate God so much
and they hate the truth that's been given to them,
and they rejected it over and over and over,
and they hate God so much in their hearts
and they've hardened their own heart,
and they'll never believe in God
that God will end up giving them over,
hardening their heart just like he did to Pharaoh,
and then they have a desire that's unnatural, okay?
That's the only reason it happens.
But here's another thing that's interesting
about this particular study, though,
is if your environment had no impact
on you becoming a reprobate
or going down that road or hating God,
then when they looked at the other twin,
he would have been about 3 to 5%,
because that's the proportion of homosexuals in our society.
So if it was unrelated to environment,
it would have been 3 to 5%,
but because it's 11 to 14%,
that makes it clear that their environment
has an impact on someone becoming a reprobate,
meaning that children that are molested
have a higher likelihood of becoming a reprobate.
Children that are raised going to a Catholic church
are more likely to become a reprobate.
People that are going to a Mormon church
are more likely to be a reprobate.
And let me tell you something.
Someone that's raised a fundamental Baptist
is more likely to be godly and love God
and get saved than someone else.
Just like the Bible says,
what advantage hath the Jew?
Much every way, chiefly.
I mean, just like you being raised a fundamental Baptist,
you have every advantage,
everything offered to you that you could possibly want.
That's why it's important for you guys
to take your kids to a good church
and to raise them to serve God,
because it will affect them.
Your upbringing, your environment
will have an impact on your life,
whether you like it or not.
Now, of course, all of us,
we can't change the environment that we're brought into.
You can't change who your parents are.
You can't change the upbringing that you had.
We have to just do the best
with what God has given us.
And we all have different parents.
We all have different starting points in life.
And you know what?
Some of us had good situations.
Some of us had bad situations.
Some of us, most of us are kind of in the middle.
And we have to choose to serve God and love God
despite our upbringing.
And, you know, there are children that are molested
and choose not to become a reprobate.
They choose to just believe in Jesus still
and get saved and live a normal life
as best that they possibly can.
But at the same time, let's not downplay the fact that
people that are being abused as children
are more likely to go down a dark road.
And we don't want to foster that environment
or encourage that environment.
In fact, we don't let those people even come to our church, okay,
as evidenced by the protest outside.
You know, you could have protests outside
or you could just let all those people inside.
I would way rather just have the protest outside.
I'll just tell you that right now.
Go to Proverbs chapter 13. Go to Proverbs chapter 13.
I'm not going to facilitate such wickedness.
And look, I guarantee, I guarantee that many, many
of the protesters that are protesting our church
are literal child molesters.
I mean, there is one that's like a dude with a mustache
wearing a dress and it's like picking up little black kids
that look nothing like it and just like running around saying,
this is my minor.
Like that thing needs to be investigated.
There is no way that person is innocent.
That person is a sick psychopath.
And you know what, many of these people are.
Many of these people are transitioning their children,
transitioning little kids, and you know what, they're wicked.
And let me tell you, a common denominator
with all these protesters, they weren't disciplined as children.
Ninety-some percent of the time,
these type of people were never disciplined.
They were never properly and biblically instructed
in the way of righteousness.
And you know what, they've gone the way of the devil.
And let me tell you something.
Those who love their children will do what the Bible says.
Look at Proverbs chapter 13 verse 24.
He that spareth his rod, hateth his son.
You know, a lot of people say like,
spare the rod, spoil the child.
That's not biblical.
You know what's biblical?
If you don't spank your children, you hate them.
That is what the Bible is saying.
It's saying, and not only this, let me explain something to you.
It's not saying only the parents that never spanked,
it's the one that's just sparing it.
Meaning when your child needs proper discipline
and you decide not to do it, you hate them.
You must, you must deliver the rod when it's necessary
if you truly love your children.
You cannot spare the rod.
And you know what?
It helps children realize there's a punishment for my actions.
And the world you live in, there is a punishment for your actions.
Be not deceived, God is not mocked.
Whatsoever man soweth, that shall he also reap.
And let me tell you something.
There is a consequence to every action that you take.
When you lie, when you steal, when you cheat,
when you do wickedness, when you commit adultery,
when you commit fornication, God will punish.
I mean the Bible says marriage is honorable in all and the bed undefiled,
but whoremongers and adulterers, God will judge.
We live in a society that thinks they can get away with fornication
and adultery and all kinds of sin and smut.
And let me tell you something.
Those people are not getting punished by loving parents
and so they just go and do whatever they want thinking there's no punishment.
And you will destroy your children's lives
when you decide not to discipline them appropriately.
You sound upset, Pastor Shelley.
Well, let me tell you something.
You can't fix your children later.
When your daughter is a whore at 16,
you're going to wish that I was meaner in my sermon.
Because you're going to say, how do I fix this?
Many times you can't.
I mean, when you let your kids get to that age,
when they go off to college and you haven't disciplined them appropriately,
good luck.
Now, I'm not saying don't try. Try.
But I'm just telling you, in many cases, you may not even have much hope.
It's important to discipline your children now.
It's important to keep them safe now.
It's important to teach them that there is a punishment.
And of course, the worst punishment of all is hell.
And most people that don't fear hell,
it's probably because they just weren't really punished much in their life.
So they just think that they're somehow going to get away with everything.
Whereas children that were always disciplined by their parents,
and they saw also that they're being disciplined by the person that loves them the most,
that's really important.
It's really important that the person that loved them the most
and was feeding them and bathing them and giving them hugs
and getting them ice cream and taking them out to a ball game
and doing all these fun things for them is the one that's disciplining them,
it helps them balance all the things of life.
It helps them get a better perspective of who God really is
because God's not just this mean, evil person upstairs that just wants to attack us or something.
No, he's a loving father.
He's the most loving father.
And he's got the best example.
And you know what a loving father does?
He disciplines his children.
And you know what? God disciplines us.
And so we need to discipline our children.
And if you're sparing the rod, you hate your children.
I didn't say that. God said that.
Okay, if you're mad at me this morning, you're really just mad at this.
And the person that loveth him, notice this what the Bible says,
he chases them with him betimes.
Betimes means early.
So you need to discipline your children very early in life if you truly love them.
Go if you would to Proverbs 22 again.
Go back to chapter 22.
And look at verse number 15, the Bible says,
Foolishness is bound in the heart of a child,
but the rod of correction shall drive it far from him.
Notice the only way to get foolishness out of your child is the rod.
Notice what it does not say.
And I want to be really clear this morning, okay?
Let's just read this again.
Foolishness is bound in the heart of the child.
Time out will get it away from him.
Counting to three will get it away from him.
One.
Two.
One.
Two.
Three.
Come on, just do it.
That doesn't get the foolishness out of your child, folks.
Counting doesn't work.
It doesn't say time out.
Taking away the toy.
Now look, I'm not saying there isn't multiple forms of discipline.
I'm not saying that you can't give your children warnings.
I'm not saying that you can't put them at time out or separate them
or take away things from them as forms of punishment.
I'm not saying that, but I'm saying this.
You know what drives the foolishness out of him?
The rod.
So, hey, do some of those other things when you feel is discretionary and appropriate,
go for it.
But let me tell you something.
You're not going to get the foolishness out,
you're not going to talk it out of them.
Have you ever met one of our protesters?
Try to talk sense and reasoning into them.
Why does a leftist, why can you never reason with a leftist?
Because they haven't had the foolishness knocked out of them yet.
That's why.
And so they're unreasonable and they're wicked.
People need to get the foolishness out of their heart
so that they can actually have reason and logic
and they can be communicated with.
And of course, God willing, children will get to a point where
using logic, reasoning and verbal instruction is enough for them to obey.
But let me tell you something.
They don't start that way.
That's not how the package came out.
The package did not come out that way.
You have to put some work, effort, energy into that particular gift that God has given you
and that is how you are going to get the foolishness out.
It's through the rod and the rod of correction.
Here's another thing that's important about this, though.
And I want to make it clear that we're not disciplining, spanking or chastening our sons for no reason.
It's for correction.
So whenever you discipline your child, it should never be spanked for anything other than correction.
If there's a clear action that they did that's not right, clearly wrong,
you're telling them, hey, don't do this, don't go here, don't say that.
You're telling them this is wrong and you're correcting them.
You're not just going to discipline them just because you're mad or you don't like something or whatever.
It's for correction specifically.
And every time you discipline your children, obviously when they're very young,
you should still do it but it may not resonate yet,
but you should explain to your child why they're being disciplined.
Say, look, you did this, this is why, this is the result of your actions.
You're being corrected in this particular way.
You need to modify and train your behavior.
We're trying to instruct them in the way they should go.
Here's what you should do in the future.
Don't hit your brother in the face.
Don't eat cookies before dinner when I told you not to eat the cookies before dinner.
So it's like you're giving them the clear instruction of why they're receiving some kind of chastisement.
If someone were to just hit their child indiscriminately, that's more like abuse.
And of course there's people that do that.
There are people that go home and they just hit their children
or they just hurt their wives or they kick the dog or whatever.
And you know what, that's not right.
You can discipline the dog when it does something wrong.
You can discipline your children when they do something wrong.
I'm not instructing you to discipline your wives physically.
But of course you could tell your wife that you're upset with something that she did
and you could give her verbal instruction there.
Go if you would to Proverbs 23 verse 13.
Proverbs 23 verse 13.
Withhold not correction from the child.
Now notice it's going to tell you what correction is.
For if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die.
So notice it's saying a form of correction is not just verbal.
It's actually a physical correction and that correction is with the rod.
Of course if you were ever to discipline your child in a way
that could cause serious bodily harm, permanent injury or even likely death,
then you're doing it wrong again.
If they don't cry, wrong.
Permanent injury over here, wrong.
Neither of those are the way to discipline your children.
Now here's the thing.
God blessed your children with the seat of learning, okay?
And the seat of learning can take the rod and they're not going to die.
You know, I don't know if it's ever happened, but I've never seen the headline,
child perished from bottom spanking.
You know, it just doesn't really happen.
God gave a lot of cushion and you know what?
That is there so they can get a lot of instruction, okay?
Now there are other parts of the body that are very sensitive.
You would never want to discipline your child in a sensitive part of the body,
like their neck or their face.
You don't want to just necessarily strike them in the eye or their neck.
You want to punish them in a place that God has given us.
And you know, God's punishment areas are basically the back parts of the person.
The Bible instructs even men to be physically disciplined
and their back often is what is described.
Now of course, that's still your backside
and I believe that the best place is the seat of learning.
That's where the punishment should be for the children.
I can show you a few more verses on this in a minute,
but that's what the Bible keeps on saying.
Matthew verse 14,
Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell.
That's important, isn't it?
Isn't it important that your children don't go to hell?
I don't want my children to go to hell.
And one of the best ways to help keep them from going to hell
is to give them physical punishment so that they will believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.
Because they're going to realize, wow, there's a punishment.
I don't like punishment.
You know, I don't want punishment.
And then when they hear about, hey, if you don't believe in Jesus,
you're going to have to be punished for your sins.
And you're like, okay, well, what's the punishment?
It's not a spanking, it's hell.
And they're like, well, I don't even like spankings.
And you know what they're going to do?
They're going to say, hey, I want to believe on Jesus Christ
and I want to be saved from the punishment of my sin.
And then people say, oh, you're selling fire insurance.
No, I'm giving away for free.
I'm not selling anything.
They say, hey, you're soliciting. I'm not soliciting.
I'm giving free invites out, right?
And I'm giving the gospel out for free.
And let me tell you something.
You know what, there's nothing wrong with going to heaven
because you didn't want to go to hell.
It's not like you're going to be a lower class citizen in heaven
because you said, you know what, I was kind of just motivated to not go to hell.
It's like, you're in.
You made it in.
It's not like, well, I just really loved Jesus.
That's why I got saved.
Well, good job. Way to go.
But you know what?
You and I are both going to heaven, OK?
And I'll tell you why I, as a young boy, believed on Jesus Christ.
It was because I didn't want to go to hell.
That was it.
I mean, that was it.
I mean, I was just like, yeah, I don't want to go to hell.
And I believed that God was real.
I believed in Jesus Christ.
I knew he died on the cross for me.
I knew his blood was shed.
And I knew my only opportunity to not go to hell was to put my faith in Jesus.
And that's what I did as a little boy.
It's not like I just was sitting here thinking, like, I just really love Jesus.
That comes later.
You know, we love him because he first loved us.
OK.
And, you know, a love of Jesus is following the commandments.
And that takes a lifetime of learning and being filled with the Spirit and maturing and growing.
You know, I don't know that I really loved Jesus that much growing up,
because as a teenager and a young adult, I wasn't really following God's commandments that great.
And I wasn't really as into church and I wasn't really as into my Bible.
And so I don't know that I can honestly tell you, I just love Jesus so much.
But you know what?
I didn't want to go to hell.
And you know what?
That's a good reason for people to get saved.
But let me tell you something.
A lot of people don't get saved because their parents never physically discipline them.
They never punish them.
They never use the rod.
Now, of course, the word beat in our Bible.
A lot of people in 2023 America get offended by that word.
But we're not talking about abusing your children.
It's just talking about the physical action of using the rod, using some kind of instrument to apply a spanking.
OK, is what's kind of our more modern vernacular word.
But you know what?
The Bible is saying that you need to use some force, obviously.
I mean, beating him doesn't sound like it's no, no, no.
That's knocking.
OK, it's not saying knock.
It's not saying just like touch them.
You know, it's saying beat.
OK, so it should use some force.
And of course, what was the they better cry because it's not crying.
It didn't work.
And if it was going to cause some kind of a permanent injury.
Well, that's way too hard.
OK, so obviously we have to have some kind of a balance here.
Go to view it to Proverbs 29.
I don't think that anybody's really in danger of the latter.
In my experience, people are almost never in danger of permanently injuring their child.
Most people are in the other category where they're not actually making their children feel any kind of uncomfortable pain or they're not really doing it right.
And look, some children are just harder than others.
Let's just be honest.
OK, not every child the same.
And I'll say this also.
Boys are way different than girls.
And those who've had both know what I'm talking about.
But if you've only had girls often, especially the younger ones, some of them can just be like perfect for a while.
And you're just there.
There's like little angels for some reason.
Some of them are not.
OK, and I'm not saying every little girl is like that.
Some little girls can be tyrants even at one.
OK, but I'm just saying not every child is the same.
And objectively speaking, boys are typically harder.
I mean, boys usually need more instruction.
OK, we have more foolishness and they need more help in that particular area often.
And so it's important to discipline them.
Sometimes it can even be where your children may not respond correctly to the punishment right away.
OK, and that's OK.
But at the same time, you know, you need to be consistent.
You don't want to just say, well, it didn't work the first time.
OK, yeah, well, you sometimes have to keep going.
And also I'll say this.
You can't fix a child's attitude in one day.
So let's say you've not been disciplining your children appropriately.
And you're like, well, I spanked them and they've messed up five minutes later.
I'm not saying going on this pattern every five minutes until it fixes itself.
OK, obviously you might have to give them a little space, a little bit of grace.
You know, I don't want to just necessarily discipline my children all day, every day.
Right, but it should, if you're not doing it, if they have bad behavior
and you're not doing it multiple times a day, you're probably doing something wrong.
OK, but I'm not going to just if they just can't get it.
Well, you know, I'm not going to necessarily just keep disciplining them over and over and over.
Give them a little bit of space.
Give them a new day.
Give them a little bit of time.
Obviously, some children are more stubborn than others.
But generally speaking, if you have a child who's misbehaving
and you discipline them appropriately, most of the time they're going to fix it.
Most of the time, you're not going to have to deal with that issue anymore.
So if you're constantly dealing with that issue over and over and over,
it sounds like you're just not disciplining appropriately.
You're just not doing it correct.
Again, I'm not saying that you couldn't have that stubborn child or that more difficult one
or they're going through a harder phase, but just generally speaking, the behavior should change.
That's the whole point.
Behavior modification.
And that is the whole purpose of what the Bible is instructing us to do.
Now look at Proverbs 29, verse 15.
The Bible says,
That's a spicy verse, honestly.
I mean, because it's basically saying children that are not well behaved
are a direct reflection of their mother.
It's saying that it's the mother's fault.
And I'm not saying that.
Proverbs is saying that.
I'm not saying that.
God is saying that your children, just being left to themself,
will end up being a bad child, and then who is the Bible blaming?
Who is the Bible saying that the shame will be on?
It's saying the shame will be on the mother.
I didn't write the Bible, so please realize who you dislike if you don't like this verse.
But at the same time, the Bible is very clear that we shouldn't just leave our children to raise themselves.
Most parents, and this is going to be my opinion,
most parents are leaving their children to themselves.
I'm not saying in this room. I'm just saying in America.
In America, most parents are allowing the teachers or daycare or someone else to raise their children.
They will not do it.
And let me say something that's bringing all those mothers to shame.
The poor generations being risen today are a reflection of the mothers.
You want to know why there's a problem with the boomers?
The millennials and Gen X.
Look, when you have a really wicked generation or you have a generation that's very evil or very rebellious,
you know what the problem was? It was the previous generation that raised them.
That was the problem.
And many, many parents have just decided to just outsource parenting, outsource instruction,
and they don't want to teach and train their own children.
And you know what? It's their fault when their child is a bad child.
And of course, we need to take responsibility for our children and make sure that we're disciplining them appropriately.
I want to go to another place. Let's go to Titus Chapter 1 for a moment.
I'm not saying dads are off the hook here, okay?
Don't hear what I'm saying wrong.
But I'm saying that who gets the first blame? It's mom.
Because why? Well, moms spend more time with their kids.
And I'll say this. I believe that even if you have a crappy husband,
even if your husband is bad, you can still have well-behaved children.
Because you can actually discipline them, you're with them the most,
and so you can actually have perfect children and the husband actually be a bad husband or bad father.
And it's going to be harder if you have a bad wife or a bad mother to have well-behaved children,
in the sense that I can teach and train my children sometimes at home,
but if they're only behaving when dad's home, that's only going to go so far.
But here's the thing. My children are around my wife like 99% of the time.
And that 1% is usually if it's just me and I'm letting her run errands or go out or whatever.
But here's the thing. I'm only around my children like, I don't even want to put a percentage on it,
but it's not anywhere near 99%.
So I don't have as much opportunity, and I know the men in this room don't have as much opportunity to discipline their children.
So you know what? Children are often a direct reflection of their mother.
A direct reflection of her.
Now look at Titus chapter 1. Let's read here first.
The Bible says in verse number 6,
If any be blameless, this is talking about a pastor, the husband of one wife, having faithful children, not accused of riot or unruly.
So according to the Bible, the pastor is also supposed to have well-disciplined children that are not accused of riot or unruly.
Go backwards to 1 Timothy chapter number 3.
So when you say there's discipline in Pastor Shelley, who needs to do it? Mom and Dad.
I'm not saying, you know, when we look at one verse, it's not like, oh, the guys are off the hook.
And then we look at another verse about the guys, it's like the moms are off the hook. No, no, no.
No one's off the hook. Everyone's on the hook.
In order for a man to even be a pastor, his family has to be in check. His family has to be properly disciplined.
Look what the Bible says in verse number 4, 1 Timothy 3 verse 4,
One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity.
Gravity is meaning seriousness. That they take life seriously.
And they're not just unreasonable. They can be disciplined.
Verse 5, For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?
So it's saying, why would you want a pastor that can't even discipline his children or his own wife?
Why would you want him to have to lead grown men?
That doesn't even make any sense.
And so this person needs to be able to rule his family appropriately as well.
So what does that look like? Well, as a man, you need to instill into your wife confidence, empowerment, and instruction on how to discipline the children.
So as a man, if you feel like I'm displeased with how my children's behavior is,
well, then you need to empower your wife, encourage her, and give her the wisdom and the practicality, give her the knowledge of how to properly discipline those children.
And of course, you also need to discipline them as well.
You know, you need to be the one also dishing out discipline.
And you know, in my household growing up, this is how it worked.
Anytime my mom spanked me, my dad spanked me again when he got home.
So it was just like, and you know, here's another thing.
I went to public school, but I also went to private school for a little bit, and it was a Christian private school, and they allowed the teachers and the principal to spank.
And I remember my mom talking to me about it.
She's like, I have the parental sign form here, and she's like, I'm giving them permission to spank you.
And if you get spanked by the principal or the teacher, I'm going to spank you when you get home, and then dad's going to spank you when he gets home.
It was just like, any opportunity to get spanked, it was just like, here, you know.
And I remember as a little kid thinking like, this is mean, you know.
What is this about?
You know, later I ended up realizing, wow, what a loving parent who says, hey, I'm not going to just let you do whatever you want.
We're not going to spare the rod in this household.
You're going to get disciplined.
And you know, I remember one time, this only happened once.
One time, my mom spanked me, and I looked at her and said, that didn't hurt.
Children, let me help you.
Never make my mistake, okay.
Never make my mistake.
Okay.
And I'll tell you again, I only did that one time, okay.
So, you've got to realize, though, as the man, hey, you need to discipline your children, you need your wife to discipline the children.
I want everybody to be active and involved in this particular process.
And you know what, children need a lot of love.
Of course, when you do it right and you're consistent, they're going to need less in many cases.
And here's another thing.
You're going to be disciplining them less vocally.
I've noticed that the parents that are just constantly getting on their kids' case verbally, it's because they're just not spanking.
Don't do that. Don't go over there.
Everybody's just like, spank the kids, spank the kids, come on.
You know, it's so annoying.
It's so annoying when you look at the kids just throwing a fit and you're just like, it's obvious what you need to do.
Just spank them.
Do it.
Spank them.
Johnny, I'm going to count again.
You're like, no!
What are you doing?
And you drive everyone else insane.
You know what, I've never been offended by someone saying, all right, you're getting a spanking, and they take and spank their child.
I've never personally been offended.
You think about it.
When is the last time you saw another kid, someone else's child, disobey, be a brat, punch your kid in the face, and you were disappointed that they spanked them?
You're like, never.
Then you don't do that mistake, okay?
When it's your child, you discipline them appropriately.
Because I guarantee everybody else is thinking like, please do it already.
What's going on?
And it's so annoying when a child needs to be disciplined and you hear the parent goes to discipline them and they come back and they're like happier than ever.
And then they just do it again, whatever the infraction was.
And it's just like, you're thinking like, this is the worst decision you can make.
The worst thing you can do is discipline your child to where then they're more emboldened to do it.
Because if they realize there's no consequence or they're going to be rewarded for their bad behavior, you're actually doing yourself a disservice.
When the kid screams for the ice cream or for the candy or for the Coke and throws a fit and you say no and then they cry and scream and then you give it to them, you know what you just taught them?
Scream and cry because that's how I get what I want.
And then pretty soon they'll be out here screaming and crying until they get what they want.
Here's the problem though. I always say no to them.
They haven't learned.
They haven't met a real parent.
They haven't met a real man yet that just says no!
And let me tell you something, my kid screaming and crying is never going to work for me.
It doesn't work. You know what they get? Hey, if you scream and cry, you get spanked.
That's your reward.
It's not the ice cream and the candy and the Coke and whatever.
You're going to get physically disciplined.
That is the appropriate way to respond to the child.
Now, go if you would to Proverbs 26. I want to go back for a moment.
I want to get a little more practical.
Now, I gave a little bit of my personal opinion here and personal interpretation and I want to get a little bit more even specific on this.
And again, this is just my personal application of some of the verses we've looked at.
But the Bible's been really clear and I've been trying to stay, you know, in lockstep with what the Bible's telling you.
Just making it really practical so people understand.
And people sometimes don't understand.
But, you know, this IBLP, they kind of take what I'm saying to an extreme.
And I'm not necessarily advocating what they do.
And some of it's kind of this question of, like, when do you discipline your children? Like, how young?
Now, in this documentary and in this group, they do what's called blanket training.
Who's heard of this thing? I was curious. Blanket training.
Several people have already actually heard about this.
Now, I don't know. There could be other, like, definitions or meanings.
But specifically what they mean by this in many cases is they put little babies.
And we're talking like three months, six months, eight months on a blanket.
And they'll put a toy out of reach.
And then essentially if the child reaches for the toy, they'll just physically discipline it.
Just to teach them no.
And, as they call it, break their will.
Something like, you don't need to break their will, okay?
Yeah, do we need to try to get the foolishness out of their heart? Yes.
But that's from them doing something wrong.
There's nothing wrong with a baby wanting a toy.
And I'll even say this. You know, we have a lot of kids.
If our baby or little toddler just takes a toy out of the hand of one of their siblings,
we don't punish them because they don't know.
It's three months old. It's six months old. That's ridiculous.
Okay, obviously when they get a little bit older, we'll say, hey, don't steal or don't take.
But, you know, what we're actually doing is we're trying to teach the older children to be okay with sharing, right?
And with someone just taking things and being okay with it.
Because sometimes people just take stuff from you and you just have to be okay with it.
You know, it's just life, okay?
Life isn't fair always, right?
And you notice the most selfish kids are ones that have no siblings, typically.
Because they never had to share, ever.
And, you know, that's a disservice to children that are raised by themselves as they never had to share toys.
You know, I would encourage you, if you are a parent that only has one or two children,
that any time they're around other children, to force them to learn how to share and to be nice.
And if another kid takes their toy to not throw a fit about it, you know, because they need some of that learning.
They need some of that practice.
But, I strongly disagree with this.
If you're doing this, I don't endorse it, recommend it, support it.
I'm totally against that 100%, okay?
Also, in this documentary, they had an example where they had, they brought like a 5 or 6 year old kid up,
maybe he was a little older, I don't know, somewhere in that age range,
up to sit on the pastor's lap and for him to spank him in front of the congregation as an example.
That's weird, okay?
I'm not going to do that to you all, okay?
It would be Ben. No, I'm just kidding.
I'm just kidding.
That's weird.
Why in the world do you need to discipline random children in front of everybody, you know, to show?
I think you guys get it, okay?
I don't think you need that kind of help in that kind of situation.
You know, I'm not necessarily against or going to say that it's wrong for pastors or teachers or other people in the past
of having disciplined children, you know, in their private Christian school and stuff like that.
I'm not going to get mad at them for that.
But like in today's age, I just personally am against people other than their parents disciplining their children.
You know, my exceptions would be, you know, grandparents or maybe the babysitter in a specific scenario.
But outside of that very small window, I probably would just say no and that's my recommendation.
Even in the babysitter situation, what I would recommend is just that whoever is doing that just say,
you're going to be spanked by your parents when you get home and I'm going to tell them.
And I would just tell my children, hey, if you disobey the babysitter and they tell me, you're getting spanked on the spot, okay?
So that way they still don't even have to do the disciplining, okay?
I'm not even recommending babysitters.
I just know some of you all do that, okay?
And I'm just giving you advice.
And I'm just making it clear that, you know, in today's day and age, there's a lot of weirdos and freaks and perverts and psychos and whatever.
And, you know, I don't want them disciplining my children, okay?
I'll do it. My wife can do it.
And on super rare occasions, maybe our grandparents would do something like that.
Obviously, if you're going on vacation for a week, you might not want your grandparents to have to wait a whole week to discipline the children appropriately.
They might be empowered to fulfill that role.
And that makes sense.
But specifically, I do believe that you need to start pretty young in disciplining your children, okay?
I'm not saying blanket training, though, okay?
So I'll give you my personal, this is kind of my personal guideline of how to discipline children.
Around the six to eight month mark, I believe that the babies could potentially start being told no and receiving some kind of light physical discipline.
That would be something like a tap.
And basically what you're doing is you're alerting the child to the part of the area where they did something wrong, right?
Like let's say they did something wrong with their hand.
You're saying no on their hand to alert to the child, hey, don't do that with your hand, right?
Like put something into a light socket or grab something that's dangerous.
Or maybe even a mother who's the baby likes to grab on the earrings and yank, right?
You know, a mother could then kind of tap on the child and say no, don't pull on that, right?
So you're just kind of getting them used to.
And let me be honest, if you tell a six month or eight month old baby no and kind of lightly tap them, they'll cry.
It didn't hurt them.
And I'm not saying hurt them.
I'm just saying you're basically alerting them to the fact that hey, no, and you're already teaching them that discipline.
Now as the child gets older and older and older, you can graduate that physical discipline to its, you know, intensity of pain, right?
And you say, well, how do I know?
If they cry.
That's basic, I mean, because what was the point of the physical discipline?
That they would cry, right?
When they start getting to an age where your physical discipline isn't working, escalate the physical discipline, okay?
And of course, that's a really well built in system.
God basically is going to give you that perfect discretion of how you can know when it's appropriate, how much force is appropriate and everything like that.
And you can just start off with zero pain and it's already going to work, okay?
Now by about 12 months, and again, I'm just giving general ideas here.
Obviously there's exceptions and everything like that.
Generally around 12 months, you might actually start using an instrument, using like a rod or something.
Again, at 12 months, you probably don't even need to inflict very much pain if any at all.
And in some cases, you don't even necessarily have to inflict a lot of pain.
I would say it varies greatly though.
Sometimes you might have a daughter like a little girl, she doesn't need any.
And then you could have a stubborn boy and he actually needs a little bit of pain, okay?
So it's just kind of, you know, use some discretion there.
By 18 months, you should be using the rod and it should hurt.
I mean, if you're not, then you're just, you're really doing yourself a disservice.
And I would say it's like this.
12 months, using the rod lightly.
18 months, it's kind of like moderately.
And by two years old, you should be using the rod.
And it should, you know, inflict some pain and be teaching them.
Now, of course, every single time I do this, I'm instructing the child.
Don't touch that. Don't do this.
Don't go here. This is wrong.
Don't, you know, throw your food.
Don't hit your brother.
Don't, you know, whatever the thing is because you're trying to teach them to do something different.
And I'll tell you what, even one year olds can understand a lot.
Even though they may not be able to verbally communicate very well yet, they understand so much.
I mean, I've seen little babies like that are one to, you know, 14 months.
You'll tell them like, hey, go get your shoe.
And they'll just walk over there and get the shoe.
And you'll be like, hey, bring it to so and so.
And they'll bring it.
I mean, it's like they understand a lot.
So don't underestimate your child by saying like, don't throw food on the floor, you know.
And you don't have to be like, don't throw food on the floor.
It's like, come on.
Okay, you can, you can every once in a while be stern with them and say no.
Even sometimes just that is enough to elicit the right response.
But we need to be disciplining our children.
Now, I looked it up just for sake of being curious, but I was like, well, what do other people think?
Because I don't even know what's out there anymore.
And I found an article by Dr. James Dobson.
And he didn't give an age of when to start.
But he basically said by the first grade you need to be finished with physical discipline.
And I was, let me tell you something.
No.
Wrong.
False.
Fiction.
Didn't happen, you know.
This is bad, this is bad advice.
He's like, definitely by 10 or 12 you should never have to do this.
You know, this is bad advice, okay, folks.
And I'll prove this.
Look at Proverbs chapter 26.
I had you turn there.
What's the age limit when you can stop using physical discipline?
Well, let's see what God says.
Proverbs 26, look at verse 3.
A whip for the horse, a bridle for the ass, and a rod for the fool's back.
You know what God's age limit is for people to stop getting physically punished?
Never.
So why would I then say, you know what, by the time you're six, you know, no more physical punishment.
That's dumb.
That's not biblical either.
Go to chapter 10, go to chapter 10 and look at verse 13.
You say, hey Pastor Shelley, when will your children stop being physically punished by you?
When they don't live with me.
It's the reward for not living with me.
I've heard, and I don't know if this is true, but I've heard that some cultures, even Asian cultures,
if the wife is not being very obedient to her husband, he can send her back home and she'll get physically disciplined by dad.
I'm not saying I would do that, but I'm not against it, alright.
So honey, you better obey. No, I'm just kidding.
She's not Asian, so I can't do that.
Proverbs chapter 10, look at verse 13.
In the lips of him that hath understanding wisdom is found, but a rod is for the back of him that is void of understanding.
You know, the Bible has in it instructions about proper discipline and proper punishments in a society,
and one of those is physical punishment.
Go to Deuteronomy chapter 25, and in Proverbs it mentions this.
You know, in our culture today, what do we do?
Do we give people a physical beating when they commit a crime, or do we lock them in a cage?
Time out. Let's put them in time out.
How well has that been working in our society?
Doesn't seem to be working too much, does it?
And honestly, the beating would be just fine for the offenses that the Bible gives a prescription for beating,
a lot of people say, well, it's not working, they're not being reformed.
That's because their punishment should have been death.
There was no reformation for that person.
It's like, oh, the murderers aren't being reformed by time out.
Duh.
The rapist didn't get reformed by time out.
The sodomite's still a faggot.
Yeah, of course. Time out doesn't fix that, okay?
He's still going to be a sodomite in hell, alright?
And the proper punishments, I believe, are always biblical.
You know, when it comes to a society that's actually godly and righteous, punishments are usually a couple things.
There's really only a few things.
It's basically you're going to get a physical beating, you're going to have to pay the money back, you're going to die, okay?
Or you're going to be exiled.
Now, there's a few other things that we could point to, but that's basically the punishments in society.
You know what? It doesn't have 25 years in prison.
That's just stupid.
It's stupid because it's like you're ruining their life, and you're ruining the lives of all the people around them,
and it doesn't benefit anybody.
You know what benefits? The person that sells prison equipment,
and the person that owns the prison,
and gets a government contract with unlimited money to spend on all of these prisons and everything like that.
Prison's a dumb idea, okay?
It's a foolish idea, it doesn't help, it ruins people.
You know, instead of people being in this horrible situation,
I mean, think about a woman whose husband commits a crime worthy of death,
and then he gets 50 years in prison or something.
What is she supposed to do?
If he'd just been killed, then she could just marry another guy.
But then they usually have to get divorced, and then have to go divorce and remarriage,
is it even biblical?
And I'm not recommending divorce, I'm just saying what people typically do.
And then the guy finally gets out of prison, because of COVID or whatever,
and then it's really dicey, okay?
Because men just can't handle the fact that their wife was given another man.
You know, David was like, hey, give me my call back, okay?
And Falte had to cry or whatever about it.
But it's just like, you know, it's just these weird scenarios that our society builds.
And they'll tell you like, oh, I can't believe you spanked your children, you should put them in timeout.
Oh, do you like prison too?
You know, the world's philosophy is always wrong.
Look at Deuteronomy chapter 25 verse 1.
If there be a controversy between men, and they come unto judgment, that the judges may judge them,
then they shall justify the righteous and condemn the wicked.
And it shall be if the wicked man be worthy to be beaten,
that the judge shall cause him to lie down and be beaten before his face,
according to his fault, by a certain number.
Forty stripes he may give him and not exceed.
So, according to the Bible, physical beating and is determined on the crime, max punishment, 40 lashes.
And of course, that's a big deterrent.
You steal something from somebody or you hurt somebody and they beat you,
and you're sore for like six months or a year or whatever.
I mean, you're going to think twice before you do that action again.
Whereas prison oftentimes people, you know, just aren't really as motivated to follow the law
when prison is their punishment.
In fact, some people want to go to prison just because they're homeless or degenerate or whatever.
You know, the homeless population, they like going to prison
because then they get a roof over their head, they get meals and whatever.
Whereas, you know what, I guarantee the homeless person wouldn't like getting beaten.
He wouldn't be like, well, I just want to keep stealing stuff to get beaten.
You know, he'd be like, I better get a job.
You know, his mom didn't give him discipline.
So and no one will enter society.
So he just stays a homeless derelict loser.
OK.
And if you're if you're not going to work, you're a loser.
Go to the first name of Chapter three, go to first name of three.
So let's be a little more specific.
I looked at another website.
It said ChildrensMD.org and they said that you should never physically spank your children ever.
And honestly, if you type anything about spanking or whatever, it's like almost every article is like,
don't spank, spanking doesn't work.
Research shows spanking is ineffective.
How? When did you do this research?
That's stupid.
But they said less than 18 months old.
The children just don't understand.
How do you know?
You know that.
How do they know that under 18 months, they the children didn't understand?
Because my children that are disciplined under 18 months do understand.
I've seen it.
They actually their behavior has been changed.
So how are they to tell me that my children don't understand things?
They also say this.
By disciplining your children, it models aggressive behavior.
Yeah, all the aggression we have in this world is from the people that were spanked.
I believe that.
Yeah, all those gang members.
Man, you must have been really spanked a lot by the dad that never was in your life.
Oh, and isn't it a coincidence that all the serial killers just seem to happen to have like no father present?
It's stupid.
Oh, I wonder which group of people seem to be the most violent in our society.
Oh, the ones that don't have fathers in the household either, huh?
I wonder if that's the real statistic.
Ah, it's because they're being spanked by mom.
Liar.
That's so stupid.
They said this.
Discipline makes it harder in the future.
If you do physical discipline, it makes it harder in the future to discipline them later in life.
Like, because you used spanking, now later in life, when you try to tell them no, they won't respond because they're not being physically disciplined.
Well, you know what? I'm not listening to James Dobson. The physical discipline is still on the table.
Number one.
And number two, that doesn't even make sense.
I've never seen this in my life where an adult or young adult or teenager is like, well, I'm not going to obey unless you spank me, you know.
Like, it doesn't exist, folks.
They say, dude, time out and positive reinforcement.
Positive, this, I see this and it makes me want to vomit.
Positive reinforcement.
No, no, honey.
No, no, let's do good today.
They'll take a little 18-month-old that's throwing a fit and screaming and be like, no, no, honey, let's be nice.
It's like, that kid's, and the kid's just like, meh.
He like hits his mom, you know, it's like, be nice.
You know, we went to like some playground the other day and it's like this little kid like hit one of mine or something.
And it was, they didn't even know what they're doing. They're like little babies, you know, whatever.
And my kid wasn't even upset.
And so this mom like takes it over into a corner and is like, now you need to go apologize.
And it's like, meh.
No, no, we're going to be sweet. We're going to go apologize.
20 minutes later, she comes and apologizes.
It was like, look, either just deal with it or just let it go.
We weren't even asking for it. We didn't want it.
It was just so awkward to watch a grown adult try to reason with a 12-month-old kid for 20 minutes.
It was like, they don't, like that's silly.
Positive reinforcement.
You know, this is just not a biblical concept, okay, folks?
And honestly, they just didn't read the Bible because God's giving us a lot of harsh commandments.
He's not giving us a lot of positive reinforcement.
Okay, thou shalt not.
I wasn't like being positively and reinforced when he said for me to just not do things.
Now there's a parent that's like this who refuses to give instruction unto his children and his name is Eli.
Now look at verse number 12.
In that day I will perform against Eli all things which I have spoken concerning his house when I began.
I will also make an end for I have told him that I will judge his house forever for the iniquity which he knoweth
because his sons made themselves vile and he restrained them not.
Notice whose fault it was that his sons were wicked? His fault.
His sons did wicked and he would not restrain them.
You are stronger than your children.
Restrain them. Tell them no.
Don't allow them to behave improperly.
Now go to Ephesians 6, the last place I'll have you turn.
You know, in church we need to behave.
Now I'll say this. The people in this room and the children in this room are just way better than the children in this world just already.
Even if you guys just like stopped disciplining your children appropriately, they'd still probably be way better.
But our standard isn't the world standard.
So don't just stop because you're slightly better than the world.
We can all improve in this area.
Myself included. Everybody can improve in this area.
And we need to make sure that we're having the best behaved children that we can possibly have.
Now in church you should watch them while they're in church.
You know, and sometimes you have bad people come creep into church.
You don't want some bad person to get alone with your child or talk to them or whatever.
You never know what happened.
We've had bad people in our church since I've been the pastor.
And I think a lot of them have been weeded out, but that doesn't mean all of them are weeded out yet.
And they'll probably keep coming.
And you know, there's sometimes people in the church, I'm thinking like, let's not be around this person, you know, that much.
Or let's be careful around this person.
Okay? Because it's like, I don't know.
Stop being weird. Okay?
Also when the kids are in church, you know, this is not an MMA ring.
Okay? They shouldn't be doing throw downs and jujitsu and rough housing.
This is church.
Now if you want them to go to the playground and roll around, go for it.
Look, I'm all for guys and boys wrestling and rough housing at someone else's house.
At, you know, the playground.
You know, wherever you want to go that's not here.
You know, this is church.
And we should not facilitate or encourage our children to be rough housing in church.
Because this is not the place to rough house.
This is a place to learn about God and have fellowship and have friends and have fun.
But, you know, I'm not saying that they can't talk and hang out.
But this should not be the place to be touching.
You know, and I encourage my children and I think all of us and even ushers.
You know, the children should just not be touching.
Not putting hands on each other.
We're not Pentecostal here. Okay?
We're not casting out any demons.
We're not getting anybody married.
Okay? There's no reason to have to.
You know, when me, when I hang out with Dylan, we don't have to touch each other.
Okay?
We're not just constantly putting hands on each other and touching each other's face and whatever.
You know, teach your children how to be friendly without touching each other.
And I get it.
I'm not saying that they don't like to give each other hugs and whatever.
Hey, it's cute, it's fun.
But at the same time, there's some kids that are just a little rougher than others.
And it'd just be better if they all learned, hey, let's just keep our hands to ourselves.
Okay?
And not be rough.
Also, they should learn how to sit in church, you know, by dad.
Sit on their own.
Be quiet during the service.
You know, they shouldn't be running around and screaming.
And I'll say this, if your child is doing these things, which probably every child's done,
my children have disobeyed too,
is if my children can't behave after a service, I'll make them sit in the row by themselves.
Because if you can't obey, then you don't get to play.
Right?
They'll get physically disciplined, and they can, you know, sit quietly and do their own thing.
But I don't want to just encourage their bad behavior.
Right?
Here's another thing, and we all need to do this too,
is pay attention to your kids playing every once in a while.
Because kids are mean.
Kids are rude.
Kids do bad things.
And don't be the person that's just so offended that your kid's a mean kid.
That's so annoying.
When it's like, everybody knows that your kid's the mean kid, and you just won't deal with it.
Because, frankly speaking, I'm not mad at you if you're a kid being mean,
because foolishness is bound on the heart of a child.
But quit making excuses for him.
Like, oh, it didn't hurt that bad, did it?
I know he punched him in the face for no reason, but like, is it a big deal?
You know, I know he pushed him down and called him a name, but get over it.
It's like, no, why don't you just teach your kid to not be mean?
You know, and stop being so offended that, you know, someone called you out,
or your kids for being mean, you know, be a little thicker skinned.
Because they're actually trying to help you.
Yeah, sometimes does it seem like a parent's just being kind of like over the top? Sure.
But you know what? It's better to just, it's better to just take correction.
It's better to just take correction if someone's willing to offer you,
because it usually takes a little bit of courage to even tell somebody.
Usually you're like wanting to say something for a long time,
and by the time you actually say something, there was a lot of infractions,
a lot of issues, a lot of problems.
So, and if every single person is telling you about your kid, you're the problem.
Oh, why does everybody pick on my kid?
Because your kid's mean.
Because your kid's not behaving well.
Okay? Get over it.
Why don't you want everybody, why don't you want the help anyways?
If your kid's just not behaving well, fix it. Right?
Don't get mad at everybody else.
You know, it's not their fault that your kid's not behaving well.
And you know, in the mother-baby room areas, you know, obviously,
I encourage people, and women should take a Bible in there.
And you should still try to train your kids by making them sit as much as they can.
Even if they're not ready, just sit for five minutes, or three minutes, or ten minutes at a time.
Give them opportunities to start getting more accustomed to the church service.
You know, don't be talking and fellowshipping during the service. That's rude.
You know, and I'll be honest, I don't think that our church necessarily does it that bad.
I think that sometimes it does happen.
But there's other churches where I've heard women saying,
man, I go into this mother-baby room and everybody's just talking the whole time.
And you know, that's rude.
And it's inconsiderate. It's annoying. It's a bad representation.
You know, the last thing I would want is for people to visit our church from another
and say, oh man, everybody's just talking and gossiping and doing this in the mother-baby rooms.
The women at steadfast, they're just like, they can't even handle themselves.
And that's embarrassing.
That would be embarrassing for people, for us to have that reputation.
I'd rather have the reputation that we're like over the top and strict and just like too many rules.
You know, you'll never offend me by being like, oh, steadfast, they have a bunch of rules.
I'll be like, great.
Like, oh, they're all strict and steadfast.
Great.
You know, I'm like, I'm not going to be offended by someone being like, oh, they're really uptight.
And you know what? If you're in one of these areas, in the sanctuary, in the mother-baby room, wherever,
and people are talking or being inconsiderate in the service, just tell them to shut up.
You know, you won't offend me.
Oh, pastor, someone told me to shut up.
Were you talking?
Yeah. Then shut up.
It's kind of like the mom-dad thing, right? Where mom spanked and dad spanked.
It's like, they told you to shut up. I'm going to tell you the same thing.
OK, don't come crying to me about that.
You know, tell other people to behave.
You know, we need more people to tell us to behave and not less.
And our children need more discipline, not less.
And, you know, let us not be offended by the word of God or instruction because, you know,
I'm not preaching this sermon because I'm mad at anybody.
I'm preaching it because I love you guys.
And like I said, I believe that this church already is better behaved than the world.
It's not even close.
And probably better than almost every church.
And you have some of the greatest kids in here and I love them.
But you know what? Let us not be complacent.
Let us continue to instruct our children and get even better.
Let's close in prayer.
Thank Heavenly Father for giving us these children.
I pray that you would help us to train them in the way that they should go.
I pray that you would give us just all courage and strength from the word of God to discipline our children appropriately.
I pray that the children's hearts would be turned to their parents.
That they would understand the reason for discipline.
That they would be as best behaved as they can possibly be.
And I pray that you would help our church to be a good example unto you.
And in Jesus' name we pray. Amen.
All right. For our final song, we're going to be singing song 89, Does Jesus Care?
Song number 89, Does Jesus Care?
Song 89, Sing It Out Together, Does Jesus Care?
Does Jesus care when my heart is pained too deeply for birth and song?
As the burdens press and the cares distress and the way goes weary and long.
Oh yes He cares, I know He cares, His heart is touched with my grief.
Where the days are weary, the long nights dreary, I know my Savior cares.
Does Jesus care when my way is dark with the nameless dreary?
As the daylight fades into deep night's shades, does He care enough to be near?
Oh yes He cares, I know He cares, His heart is touched with my grief.
Where the days are weary, the long nights dreary, I know my Savior cares.
Does Jesus care when I've tied and failed to resist some temptation strong?
When for my deep grief I find no relief, though my tears blow all the night long.
Oh yes He cares, I know He cares, His heart is touched with my grief.
Where the days are weary, the long nights dreary, I know my Savior cares.
Does Jesus care when I've said goodbye to the dearest on earth to Thee?
And my sad heart aches till it nearly breaks, is it on to Him thus we see?
Oh yes He cares, I know He cares, His heart is touched with my grief.
Where the days are weary, the long nights dreary, I know my Savior cares.
Thank you all for coming this morning. I hope you join us this evening at 530 for our evening service. God bless, you are dismissed.