Yet he talks with me, and he tells me I am his goal.
And the joy we share as we tarry there,
none other has ever known.
He speaks, and the sound of his voice is so sweet.
The birds hush their singing, and the melody
that he gave to me within my heart is ringing.
And he walks with me, and he talks with me,
and he tells me I am his home.
And the joy we share as we tarry there,
none other has ever known.
I stay in the garden with him.
The night around me be falling, but he bids me go
through the voice of hope.
His voice to me is calling.
And he walks with me, and he talks with me,
and he tells me I am his home.
And the joy we share as we tarry there,
none other has ever known.
Amen.
We'll open with a word of prayer.
Heavenly Father, we just thank you for this day.
We thank you for the salvations and seeds that
were planted this afternoon.
Lord, I just pray that you would fill Pastor Shelley
with your spirit for this evening sermon,
that you would just embolden him to preach the message that
you've laid on his heart.
I also pray that you would just open our ears to the message
so that we would not be just forgetful hearers,
but actually doers of the word.
Lord, I just pray that you'd continue
to be with us in service that everything's done decently
and in order.
These things we pray in Jesus' name.
Amen.
All right, we're going to write this down
so that I can keep track here.
We'll move to our middle section for the second hymn.
Miss Rhea, what do you got?
319.
Hymn number 319.
Just a Closer Walk With Thee.
Yeah.
Da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da.
OK.
Let it be on the first.
I am weak, but thou are strong.
Jesus, keep me from all wrong.
I'll be satisfied as long as I walk.
Let me walk close to thee, just a closer walk with thee.
Rant in Jesus is my plea, daily walking close to thee.
Let it be, dear Lord, let it be.
Through this world of toil and stares, if I falter,
Lord, who cares who with me my blood shatters?
None but thee, dear Lord, none but thee.
Just a closer walk with thee, rant in Jesus is my plea,
daily walking close to thee.
Let it be, dear Lord, let it be.
When my feeble life is o'er, time for me will be the war.
Guide me gently, safely o'er to thy kingdom's shore,
to thy shore, just a closer walk with thee.
Rant in Jesus is my plea, daily walking close to thee.
Let it be, dear Lord, let it be.
Amen.
We've got your way here.
If you didn't get a bulletin this morning,
Brother Fur's got some.
And on the front, September 17, we
have the Bible memory chapter, Exodus 20, verse 6.
And on the inside, service, soul winning times,
stats, did we get all the soul winning count
from this afternoon?
No.
OK, who, did anybody have any salvations?
Is that one for, and one for your group?
I think we had one, OK, anything else?
So I guess three for the afternoon?
That's great.
And then also, we're praying for expecting families
to the war family.
Congratulations to them.
And the fifth Sunday fellowship, you made it.
So we arrived, you got here.
And so I was confused.
I thought it was lunch today.
So I apologize if I got you all excited.
And then afterwards, you were thinking,
like, man, he preached way too long.
But we get to have some fellowship tonight.
And then also, there's a homeschool class there Mondays.
We have the marathon results, thanks to everybody
who participated.
Also, there's a ladies event October 7, that Saturday.
And then there's the fellowship conference
that we're having at steadfast October 12 through the 15th.
If you're able to visit with us, that would be great.
It's great to be here again with all of you.
And the church is going really well up here.
So I'm really pleased to be with you guys
and have some fellowship and for my family
to be able to join me and be with you guys.
We definitely still think of you and praying for you guys.
And so it's great to be here.
I don't know exactly how often I'm still going to be coming.
I think the next time I'll probably
just come on like a Thursday.
But still trying to make it here somewhat regularly
and visit with you guys.
And things are going really well.
So with that, I guess, Cameron, we're
going to have to pick our third option.
Right.
I don't want to steal your thunder, so.
You could have.
You've got a lot of eager people over here.
You had the chance.
All right, this side, I will make one exception
because I know birthday boys here on the front row.
And I have not forgotten.
So do you have a pick?
I'm putting you on the spot.
You didn't know you were signing up for this
sitting on the front row.
I got one.
OK.
Can I hear it?
Try to find the number.
Jesus, you know, Greek Atlas.
What's the name?
OK, I was going to say it's the same story.
29.
Him number 29 at the cross.
Another great hymn.
Him number 29 at the cross.
On the first.
At the cross, where I saw the light and the burden of my heart
rolled away, and it was there by faith I received my sight.
And now I am happy all the day.
Was it for crimes that I have done.
He roamed up on the tree.
Amazing grace unknown and love beyond degree.
At the cross, at the cross, where I first saw the light
and the burden of my heart rolled away, and it was there
by faith I received my sight.
And now I am happy all the day.
Well, might the sun in darkness hide and shut his glories in.
When Christ the mighty Maker died for men,
the creatures sinned.
At the cross, at the cross, where I first saw the light
and the burden of my heart rolled away, and it was there
by faith I received my sight.
And now I am happy all the day.
On the last.
The drops of green can never repay the debt of love I owe.
Here, Lord, I give myself away.
Tis all that I can do.
At the cross, at the cross, where I first saw the light
and the burden of my heart rolled away, and it was there
by faith I received my sight.
And now I am happy all the day.
Amen.
Great singing this evening.
As the offering plates are being passed around,
please turn, if you would, to Revelation chapter number 5.
Revelation chapter number 5.
We'll begin reading in verse 1.
Revelation chapter number 5, the Bible reads,
and I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne
a book written within and on the backside sealed
with seven seals.
And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice,
who is worthy to open the book and to loose the seals thereof?
And no man in heaven nor in earth,
neither under the earth, was able to open the book,
neither to look thereon.
And I wept much because no man was
found worthy to open and to read the book,
neither to look thereon.
And one of the elders saith unto me,
Weep not, behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah,
the root of David, hath prevailed to open the book
and to loose the seven seals thereof.
And I beheld, and lo, in the midst of the throne
and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders,
stood a lamb as it had been slain,
having seven horns and seven eyes, which
are the seven spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.
And he came and took the book out
of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.
And when he had taken the book to four beasts and four
and twenty elders, fell down before the lamb,
having every one of them harps and golden vials
full of odors, which are the prayers of saints.
And they sung a new song, saying,
Thou art worthy to take the book and to open the seals thereof,
for thou was slain and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood
out of every kindred and tongue and people and nation,
and hast made us unto our God kings and priests,
and we shall reign on the earth.
And I beheld and heard the voice of many angels round
about the throne and the beasts and the elders,
and the number of them was 10,000 times 10,000
and thousands of thousands, saying with a loud voice,
Worthy is the land thou was slain
to receive power and riches and wisdom and strength and honor
and glory and blessing.
And every creature which is in heaven and on the earth
and under the earth, and such as are in the sea and all that
are in them, heard I saying, blessing and honor and glory
and power be given unto him that sitteth upon the throne
and unto the lamb forever and ever.
And the four beasts said, Amen.
And the four and 20 elders fell down and worshiped him
that liveth forever and ever.
Let's bow our heads for a word of prayer.
Father in heaven, we thank you for the three souls
that were saved this afternoon.
And we just ask that you'd help them be a part of the harvest,
that you'd help them come soul winning with us
and get plugged in.
And we ask that you fill our paths with your Holy Spirit
and help us to have a good fellowship.
In Jesus' name we pray, Amen.
Amen.
So we're here in Revelation chapter 5.
And it's definitely a very interesting chapter
of the Bible.
It's talking about the end times.
And I want to use some verses in here
to talk about a few different points I'm going to make.
But the sermon really is not necessarily
about Revelation chapter 5.
I kind of want to address really
some ideas about the Trinity.
And kind of the title of my sermon
is I want to talk about the different wills
within the Trinity or the different wills of God
in the Trinity.
And I've already preached a lot of sermons on the Trinity.
You could even recently I've preached a few sermons
at DFW area about the Trinity.
But I've talked about a lot of different things.
And most of the other sermons I kind of focused on.
Identifying the three persons within the Trinity.
Even specifically in talking about how
I believe that there is different bodies of the Trinity.
That the Father has a spirit body.
And that you can actually see these distinctions.
And I'm not going to really prove all those points again
this evening.
But I am going to kind of bring up a few questions
that I have to kind of start the sermon.
And then we're going to talk a little bit
about the wills of God.
But there is a lot of people out there
who would say they think that God himself
is kind of an immaterial essence.
That there's not really a body.
There's nothing to see.
There's nothing that God could be seen as.
And that the only way to see God is only the incarnation.
It's only Jesus Christ putting on flesh.
That's the only thing that could be seen.
And there's people that will say, if you went to heaven,
that the only thing you'll see is Jesus.
That there's only one person on a throne and it's just Jesus.
And that you'll never see the Father.
You'll never see the Holy Spirit.
They can't really be seen.
They're just this immaterial essence.
That to me sounds like a oneness Pentecostal theology.
But honestly, a lot of people who
say they believe in the Trinity also kind of
subscribe to this idea that essentially there's not
these distinct persons in heaven that you're
going to be able to see or experience or relate to.
But rather, there's just Jesus.
So I think that Revelation chapter 5
is a good starting point to kind of address some of these claims
or some of these ideas.
And admittedly, some of the things
in the book of Revelation are certainly symbolic.
They're metaphors of different things.
And so you have to be careful how you interpret everything
in this passage and in the book itself.
But I think it starts becoming weird
if you make all of Revelation just metaphoric.
Because everything is just only a metaphor
or it's only symbolic.
And in chapter 4, when we start here in verse 1, it says,
after this I looked and behold, a door was opened in heaven.
And the first voice which I heard
was as it were of a trumpet talking to me which said,
come up hither, and I will show thee
things which must be hereafter.
So John is getting a vision.
He's taken into heaven.
It says in verse 2, and immediately I
was in the spirit.
So somehow, he's in the spirit in heaven,
and he's able to see things in heaven.
What I think would be strange is if everything
that John saw in heaven is not real and you can't see it,
it's just somehow a metaphor for everything.
That starts getting weird, especially when you start
thinking about what he saw, right?
He sees a throne.
He sees one person seated on the throne.
In verse 4, he says there's 24 seats,
so there's 24 elders sitting around.
I don't think this is a metaphor for something.
I think there's really 24 elders seated in heaven,
and there's really a throne in heaven.
It starts getting weird if you start just making
all this metaphor, OK?
Now, as we get into chapter 5, it
talks about the one that was seated on the throne, right?
Verse 1, and I saw on the right hand of him
that sat on the throne a book written within
and on the backside sealed with seven seals.
So he's saying he sees someone on a throne with a book,
but it's sealed.
It has some kind of a sealing on it.
I believe this is representation of something
that's really in heaven, a real person in heaven
on a throne with a real book or scroll that's sealed here, OK?
And basically, everyone's upset that no one
can look at this seal, or it says in verse 3,
and no man in heaven nor on earth,
neither under the earth was able to open the book,
neither to look thereon.
Wouldn't it be impressive if, in today's culture,
the children were upset they couldn't read a book?
Today, it's like, hey, here's a book that no one can read.
They're like, whatever.
But actually, in heaven, they're disappointed.
They don't get to find out what's in this book, OK?
And so everybody's kind of upset,
but it says in verse 5, one of the elders say,
then I mean, weep not.
Behold, the lion of the tribe of Judah, the root of David,
hath prevailed to open the book,
and to loose the seven seals there.
Now, this is where I say that, obviously, there
gets a point where there's some metaphors, right?
Because it's saying that the lion is able to open.
But then when we read in verse number 6, it says,
and I beheld, and lo, in the midst of the throne
and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the other
stood a lamb.
So here's the question.
Is it a lion, or is it a lamb?
Well, I think it's really obvious that the lion was
for sure a metaphor, OK?
The lion, without question, is a metaphor.
Now, when we talk about the lamb, is it a literal lamb,
or is it a metaphorical lamb?
It is a vision.
So I think one thing that's clear is it's Jesus, OK?
We know that this is a representation of Jesus Christ.
When John the Baptist saw Jesus Christ,
he said, behold, the lamb of God.
So of course, that was metaphoric.
John the Baptist wasn't beholding a literal lamb
in that particular scenario.
And in some cases, it's kind of hard
to tell what's going on here because notice in verse number
6, when it's talking about the lamb
in the latter portion of this, it says, having seven horns.
Well, OK, you know, so is this a kind
of a symbol of like a lamb that literally has seven horns?
Is that symbolic?
Is it, you know?
And again, I'm not, the point of this sermon
is not to tell you every single one of these things,
whether they're metaphoric or not.
What I want you to notice is that there
is a distinction between a person sitting on the throne
and this lamb, OK?
Albeit, is this just Jesus and all of the descriptors
are metaphoric?
Or is it kind of looking like a lamb and symbolic of Jesus
actually standing there?
I can't tell which one it is necessarily.
It doesn't matter for the point that I want to make.
But look at verse 7.
And he came and took the book out
of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.
Now is this, how did the lamb do that?
If it was Jesus, it makes sense.
He just reaches and grabs and takes it.
Is the lamb getting it with his mouth?
I don't know.
We don't know exactly what's being described here, OK?
But for sure, what is being described
is at least two bodies, right?
I mean, we at least have someone sitting on the throne.
And we literally have someone taking the book out
of the hand of him sitting on the throne.
So whether you want to believe that this is just
Jesus Christ with metaphoric language, which I think
is a very valid interpretation, or you
want to think that it was somehow just a vision of what
Jesus, kind of representing Jesus,
even though there's not probably a literal lamb doing this.
I don't really subscribe to that.
But even if it was, you still at least
have two bodies, representations here.
And of course, the lamb is a picture of Jesus Christ.
When we get a little bit further into this passage,
they're worshipping the lamb.
So I believe that the right way to interpret this
is it's just Jesus.
And a lot of the metaphoric language
is just talking about things he's seeing somehow.
But they're not going to be worshipping animals in heaven.
So obviously, it makes sense that this is just
a representation of Jesus or is literally Jesus.
But at the end of the day, we see
the distinction between someone sitting on the throne
and Jesus Christ, right?
So I basically just have 10 questions.
That was just kind of a build up.
I'm not going to go to all of these verses and explain them.
But if you don't believe that you're
going to see the Father and the Son, then here's my question.
Here's the first question I have.
Who takes the book out of whose hand, right?
Who's taking the book out of whose hand?
Interpret that for me then, OK?
Let's just go really fast.
I'm going to go to a lot more.
Go to Revelation chapter 3.
We're going to look at a lot of Revelation for a moment.
If you just don't think that God the Father has a body
or the Holy Spirit has a body, that you can only ever see
Jesus, then who is taking the book out of whose hand?
Well, it's metaphor, OK?
We're going to have to have a lot more metaphors here
in a second.
Look at chapter 3, verse 21.
To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me
in my throne, even as I also overcame and sat down
with my Father in his throne.
So here's my second question.
Who is Jesus sitting with?
Who is Jesus sitting with, OK?
Now, let's go to chapter 22 for a moment.
Go to chapter 22, Revelation 22.
And this verse is a pretty unique verse in the scripture.
And a lot of people get some different interpretations here.
But I just want to point it out.
Look at verse 3.
And there shall be no more curse but the throne of God
and of the Lamb shall be in it.
And his servant shall serve him and they shall see his face
and his name shall be in their foreheads.
So here would be a question.
Whose face are we seeing in Revelation chapter 22,
verse number 4?
Now, some people would say it's Jesus.
But I want to point out something else.
Keep your finger here and go to Revelation 14 for a moment.
Notice that it said that the name was
going to be in the foreheads of the servants, right?
Well, there's another parallel to that description
in Revelation chapter 14, verse 1.
It says, and I looked and though a lamb stood on Mount Sion
and with them 144,000 having his father's name
written in their foreheads.
So now, this is talking about the 144,000.
The timeline here, I'm not, you look at the chart later
if you don't understand what I'm saying.
The 144,000 come at the timing of the rapture approximately.
So after the great multitude has been brought up into heaven,
Jesus is returning and they were at least reaping
his saints out of the earth.
Bible talks about 144,000 coming down from heaven
into the earth.
That 144,000 have the father's name.
It doesn't say the lamb's name.
It doesn't say Jesus's name.
It says the lamb's father.
So how could you interpret that as anybody other than God
the father?
Right.
Now, if they have God the father's name written
in their forehead, it kind of makes
me feel like then when we're reading in Revelation 22
about having a name in our forehead,
it's probably the same name.
It leads to the idea that we're talking
about God the father's name, which
would then mean we saw what?
God the father's face in Revelation chapter 22.
So again, I would just say, whose face
is it that we really have?
OK.
Now, let's go to chapter 6, Revelation chapter 6.
We're dancing around Revelation a little bit,
but I think these are just some questions I have for the people
out there that deny the idea that maybe God the father could
have a body, or you could see him spiritually in heaven.
Revelation chapter 6, look at verse 16.
Now, it says, and said to the mountains and rocks,
fall on us.
So this is all these people that didn't believe in Jesus.
This is the Jews, OK?
Hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne
and from the wrath of the Lamb.
For the great day of his wrath has come,
and who shall be able to stand?
Here's another question I have.
Who's sitting on the throne?
And whose face is that?
And here's the thing.
When it talks about the Lamb, we never left the context
that we were in in chapter 5 where the Lamb was never
on the throne.
The Lamb was the one that came and took the seal,
took the book out of the hand, opened the seals,
and now we've just gotten to the point where we've opened
the sixth seal.
And at the point that they've opened the sixth seal,
these people on earth are saying, hey, hide us
from the face of him that sitteth on the throne
and the Lamb.
But at no point did the Lamb ever sit down on the throne.
So then here's another question, who's seated on the throne?
And it kind of makes sense that you can't really see
that face because it's going to destroy you.
They wanted to literally hide in rocks and hide
in all these different places because it's just going
to destroy you, that particular face.
Look at chapter 5 and look at verse 13.
It says, in every creature which is in heaven
and on the earth and under the earth and such as are
in the sea and all that are in them, heard I sing,
blessing and honor and glory and power be unto him
that sitteth upon the throne and unto the Lamb
forever and ever.
Doesn't it again seem to contrast?
There's someone sitting on the throne and then there's
this Lamb, right?
And to me, it's talking about two different persons
every single time.
So again, here's my question, who's sitting on the throne
and who is the Lamb, okay?
Go over to relation 19.
So we're just asking some questions, all right?
Here's a question I have.
If the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit
cannot be seen, like they're just this invisible essence,
okay, and the only way to see Jesus was the incarnation,
then who was sitting on the throne in the Old Testament?
Like was there a throne in heaven through the Old Testament?
Was there anybody sitting on the throne?
Who was sitting on the throne?
Well, Jesus is on earth who was sitting on the throne.
While Jesus is doing all these activities,
who's sitting on the throne?
Like I'm just asking questions, okay?
Revelation chapter 19, look at verse number 11.
Revelation chapter 19, look at verse 11.
And I saw heaven open and behold, a white horse
and he that sat upon him was called faithful and true
and in righteousness, he does judge and make war.
So who's sitting on the throne
while this person's sitting on a horse?
Just ask me questions, okay?
Go into Matthew chapter number three,
go to Matthew chapter number three.
I also believe it's a little bit disingenuous to say,
well, we're gonna finally see Jesus' face
in Revelation 22 verse four.
When, let's think about this, in the Old Testament,
many people actually saw a pre-incarnate Christ,
didn't they?
We have Melchizedek, we have Abraham saw Melchizedek,
Jacob wrestled with the guy.
We have Manoah saw what he said, God face to face, okay?
And his life was preserved.
We have, then we have kind of this distinction
where Moses doesn't get to see someone's face
and this person's constantly clouded and covered
and he only gets to ever see his backside
and when he saw his backside,
his face literally shone so bright
they had to cover Moses' face.
Now here's the thing, every person that saw Melchizedek,
the person that wrestled, the person that Joshua's sitting
and talking to the guy, none of their faces shone,
not a single time.
All the disciples that literally saw Jesus,
Mary, the mother of Jesus, none of their faces shone.
Peter, James and John saw Jesus Christ transfigured
before their eyes, their faces never shone, okay?
So it seems like there's a difference
between this person that Moses encountered
and the person that everybody else encountered, right?
Plus if we, when we go to heaven,
I do believe we'll see Jesus without a question.
I think everybody that's a Christian believes that, okay?
So we're all gonna see him and then we're gonna come down
and we're gonna be on earth for a thousand years
ruling and reigning with Christ
and hanging out with and seeing him,
then what's the significance of then just seeing him now
after all of that in Revelation 22 four?
Like it seems like we've already kind of been hanging out
and seeing him for so long,
but you know how we haven't been hanging out
and seeing according to the scripture as the father, okay?
So then it almost seems like, hey,
now there's a unique event in Revelation 22 four
where we have the new heaven, the new earth,
we've already gone through the great white throne judgment,
now we finally get to see God the father's face.
And every other time we see some kind of glimpse or vision,
they never see the face, do they?
Stephen looks up and he sees Jesus and Jesus is standing,
he's not on the throne,
but there's, he's at the right hand of it, isn't he?
Okay, and it seems like Jesus is always
the one interacting, right?
He's coming up and on the throne, doing different stuff,
waiting on the horse,
taking the books out of the hand of him,
doing all these different activities,
but there's just one always sitting on the throne.
That kind of makes sense that God the father
is just always on his throne.
He's always just sitting on his throne.
He doesn't have to get off of his throne,
everything's happening.
But without having the father on the throne,
you kind of don't have anybody on the throne
when Jesus is doing all these different interactions, do you?
Okay, now it seems again, also disingenuous
that if there's only ever one view
that we can ever have of God, and that's only Jesus Christ,
then why at his baptism do we seem to have
three different persons, right?
With three different bodies.
Look at Matthew chapter three, verse 16.
And Jesus, when he was baptized,
went up straightway out of the water,
and lo, the heavens were open unto him,
and he saw the Spirit of God.
Did you notice that it says
that he literally saw the Spirit of God?
But then people say you can't see it.
It's a metaphor, right?
He saw the Spirit of God,
descending like a dove and lighting upon him,
and lo, a voice from heaven saying,
this is my beloved son in whom I am well pleased.
I don't know how you couldn't get from the idea
that there's someone in the water, Jesus,
there's the Spirit of God descending,
and then there was also a voice.
It sounds like there's three persons with three bodies
that are interacting,
and they're all in unison and unity together.
But again, it just seems disingenuous
that you have all these pictures of literal bodies,
and they'll say, well, that was a dove.
Okay, let's just say for argument's sake
it was a literal bird that they saw.
That's what they saw as they saw the bird.
Well, then again, why is God giving us multiple bodies,
but he himself can't be multiple bodies, right?
Like why is, and then if it was a dove,
how do I know that when I see a dove,
it's not the Holy Spirit?
Or how do I know?
If God's just shape-shifting into anything and everything,
then what stops him from shape-shifting into the camera?
How do I know he's not the camera right now?
Or how do I not know he's just one of you
sitting here right now?
Then it starts to lose its power
of who even God even is,
because God's just the random homeless guy
sitting on the corner now,
or God's just a rock, or God's just a tree,
or God's just a bird, or God's just whatever object.
Now it starts losing value of who God is,
whereas according to the Bible,
it's like if God showed up, we'd all just die.
We'd all just fall on our face and die,
and it would just be like an incredible event.
I don't think that he's just showing up
as random objects, or birds, or whatever.
I think that he literally saw the Spirit of God,
and that was a special vision,
and then you couldn't really see God the Father.
You couldn't hear his voice, though, right?
So my question is this.
Jesus, the Spirit of God, and the voice
portrayed as three distinct locations,
but they're not?
Were they in three different locations or not?
Okay, that was the base of my question.
Let's go to Daniel seven.
I have one more question
before I kind of get into the wills here for a moment,
but if Jesus Christ can only be seen
because of the incarnation, okay,
which the word incarnation's kind of a fancy word.
What that just means is the moment when he became flesh,
right, when he was in Mary's womb,
he was conceived, and he became a man.
That's what the incarnation is referring to.
So before this, when we talked about the Melchizedek,
when we talked about Jacob wrestling with people, okay,
here's my question.
Whose body did the pre-incarnate Christ use?
Again, was it just a random,
like he's just a loner?
Like he just shape-shifted into Cameron,
and just, you know, was it out there,
he's Melchizedek now or whatever?
Or he shape-shifted into another guy
that is sitting on a horse?
Or just, he's just, again, this is just a random person,
just a random body that we've never seen before,
and he just shape-shifted into it.
Well, to me, that almost undermines
the entire premise of the incarnation, right?
Like, what's special about him being in that body
as opposed to the random loner Melchizedek body,
or the random loner wrestling body,
or the random body that he used all the other times
that we apparently had him in the Old Testament?
How about the random body he has in the fire
with Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, okay?
Well, it starts losing its significance
unless it's just him, like that was just him
every single time, and in a mortal state,
which makes sense since he wasn't catching on fire,
and then what made it special
is that he took on mortal flesh.
He took on our nature, where he could actually suffer,
and hurt, and be killed, and die, and blood could be shed.
Okay, that makes a lot more sense, but I don't know.
Whose body did the pre-incarnate Christ use?
Just ask some questions.
Here's the last one I wanna ask,
kind of related to another verse here.
Daniel, chapter number seven.
And of course, Daniel, again, is a book of prophecy,
and some visions, and everything like that,
but look at Daniel, chapter seven, and verse number 13.
And I saw in the night visions, and behold,
one like the Son of Man came with the clouds of heaven,
and came to the Ancient of Days,
and they brought him near before him,
and there was given him dominion and glory,
and a kingdom, and all people, nations, and languages,
should serve him.
His dominion is an everlasting dominion,
which shall not pass away, and his kingdom,
that which shall not be destroyed.
So here would be my question.
Who is the Son of Man, and who is the Ancient of Days?
Who is the Son of Man that came to the Ancient of Days,
and who's the Ancient of Days that received the Son of Man,
and who's the Ancient of Days that gave, you know,
power and dominion unto the Son of Man?
Well, you know, you can't see the Father, you can't see,
it just starts falling apart pretty quickly, doesn't it?
Okay.
Obviously, what is this picture of?
Well, it sounds like when Jesus Christ came,
and had offered himself,
and was presenting himself to the Father with our blood,
and that was that blood atonement
that's referenced in the book of Hebrews,
and how he went in the presence of God one time,
with the sacrifice of himself,
and that's what gives us our full atonement.
But, you know, they kind of ruined the idea
that God the Father can have a presence,
or be in a specific location, or have this body.
So, those are just a few questions I wanted to bring up.
So, if, and I think this is the thing,
if you really could go to heaven,
and you really see the Father sitting next to the Son,
then it starts to make everything else
a little bit easier to understand.
And I believe that not only do they have their distinctions
in the sense that you could see them both,
but they have distinct wills
that are referenced in scripture.
Now, go if you want to,
let's go to Luke 12 first, okay?
I wanna show you one more thing
before we kind of get into this.
Now, when I talk about distinction and will,
first of all, the Bible just plainly states this.
There's no way to get around the fact
there's a distinction and will
between the Father and the Son.
But what some people will say is that the only distinction
is because Jesus had a body and, you know,
so that human nature had kind of a separate will
from his divine will.
And they kind of make this incarnation will as it were.
But I wanna submit to you that I believe it goes beyond that
to where Jesus Christ had a separate will from the Father,
even before his incarnation, okay?
But I wanna show you another example
where we have a distinction in the persons.
Look at Luke 12, verse number 10.
And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of Man,
it shall be forgiven him.
But unto him that blasphemeth against the Holy Ghost,
it shall not be forgiven.
If we don't really have a distinction in persons
in the Trinity, how does this verse even make sense?
If the Son of Man or Jesus Christ is the Holy Ghost,
then how could you say, well, you can blaspheme Jesus
and it could technically be forgiven.
But if you blaspheme the Holy Ghost, it's not forgiven.
But they're really just the same person.
Well, that sounds like there has to be a distinction
in persons for that to even be possible, okay?
So and again, I think that Jesus is just letting himself
take a really humble state and he came in a way
that was not necessarily in a lot of power and glory.
So he allows for the forgiveness of sins for blasphemy.
Whereas the power of the Holy Ghost, you know,
witnessing miracles and stuff, they're not gonna let you
get off the hook when you're blaspheming that, right?
Okay, so there's kind of an explanation why that's true.
Go to John chapter six now, go to John chapter six.
Let's talk about the wills that the Bible brings up.
And I could point you so many places where there's
a distinction in the wills.
But every time I do, they'll just wiggle out and say,
well, that was just his flesh or something.
Like the famous quote where he's in the Garden of Gethsemane
says, not my will, but thy will be done.
If you're gonna say he doesn't have any separation of will,
then you're just denying clear scripture, okay?
But then they wiggle out and say,
well, that's just, you gotta understand,
that's like his human nature, not his divine nature.
Okay, even if that was true,
which I don't really subscribe to that.
Let's look at a couple other verses though.
Look at John chapter six, verse 38.
And this is talking about Jesus Christ
coming down from heaven, this is him talking about himself.
But it says in verse 38, for I came down from heaven,
not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
And this is the father's will, which hath sent me,
that of all which he hath given me, I should lose nothing,
but should raise it up again at the last day.
Now if you pay attention to what he's actually saying,
he's saying, I came down from heaven.
So what that first phrase is doing
is it's giving us a timeline.
Right.
So he's saying the moment that I came down from heaven,
where is he when he says this?
In heaven, right?
For I came down from heaven, right?
He's coming down from heaven.
So we're talking about the point when he was in heaven,
not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
That sounds like in heaven, there's two wills.
There was a will that's telling him to come down,
and he's saying it wasn't my will,
but he's doing what?
The father's will, and he's coming down.
And it makes it clear in verse 39.
And this is the father's will, notice this,
which hath sent me.
When was it he sent?
Well, what does it say in verse 38?
When he came down from heaven.
Because I've also heard them say this,
well, he was sent when he went from the wilderness
into his mission on earth.
But is that in view of verse 38 and 39?
He didn't say when I was sent from the wilderness
into the tribes of Israel.
He's saying, no, when I came down from heaven,
that's when he was sent.
Notice that he's saying, and this is the father's will
that sent me, when did he send him?
When he was in heaven.
That sounds like there's two different wills
that were in heaven.
Now people get mad and they'll say,
what about all the verses in the Bible
talking about the will of the Lord,
or the will of God, or whatever?
That's fine.
There's nothing wrong with the son having a will,
the father having a will,
and then just generically talking about the will of God.
First of all, many times that could just simply
be in reference to the father.
And of course there's no competition
between the father and son when it comes to wills,
because the son always does that
which is pleasing unto the father.
Additionally, it could just be sometimes the Bible
is using as a colloquialism a singular will
when talking about multiple people.
This happens all the time in the Bible.
Talk about the group of Israel,
and it'll just say their will, or the will of Israel.
It's not talking about that person,
it's talking about them as a collective.
You could even look at this as bad people.
When the 10 kings in the book of Revelation
are gonna give their power and authority
unto the Antichrist, it says they had one mind.
Doesn't mean they literally had one mind.
It said that they all agreed, right?
So if you said, hey, the mind of the 10 kings,
we're talking about their singular agreed upon mind.
So this could be the same when it talks about God.
And a lot of these people that disagree with me,
they always say, you know,
well, every church father believed what we're saying,
you know, and every church father disagrees with you,
and every church father has always believed
in just one will.
They'll bring up one body, all these different things, okay?
And I'm sure there's plenty that did.
So I'm not trying to say that there wasn't.
I am saying that there's, I disagree with them all
having this unified oneness view, though.
And just as a reference point, and I pulled this up,
I have the Matthew Henry commentary on these two verses
that I just wanna read for you.
Now here's the thing, I don't think Matthew Henry is saved.
You know, if you read his commentary on verses
about the gospel or grace,
seems like he believed in work salvation.
So he's probably, in my opinion, not saved.
He's definitely wrong about a lot of things.
But this guy's from the 1600s.
He only has a King James Bible that he uses commentary on.
And he's using the exact same verses we are.
This is what he said about verses 38 and 39, okay?
He assures us in general that he came from heaven
upon his father's business, verse 38.
Not to do his own will, but the will of him that sent him.
He came from heaven, which bespeaks him
an intelligent, active being who voluntarily
descended to this lower world,
a long journey and a great step downward,
considering the glories of the world he came from
and the calamities of the world he came to.
We may well ask with wonder,
what moved him to such an expedition?
Here he tells that he came to do not his own will,
but the will of his father.
Not that he had any will that stood in competition
with the will of his father.
This is Matthew Henry's commentary about what we just read.
It sounds like Matthew Henry very clearly articulates
that in heaven, Jesus had his own will,
the father had his own will,
and he decided to align his will with the father,
and he says that he didn't have a will
that stood in competition with the will of his father.
I agree with that, that there is no competition
between the will of the father and the son.
The son just always does whatever the father says.
But if you didn't even believe that the son had his own will
and the father has his own will,
why would you even write this?
You would just write, the son doesn't even have a will.
The son and the father have the exact same will,
there would be no point to bring up the competition word,
because there is not a competition of one.
The whole fact that he's even bringing up
the differences of wills and the competition
clearly seems to indicate that he believed,
at least in this exegesis in multiple wills.
Now somebody will just find some other verse
where he said there's one will or something.
At best, he's contradicting himself.
But to say these people didn't believe in multiple wills,
really, I just think is not true.
Let's test it with another verse.
Let's go to 1 John 4, go to 1 John 4.
Now I have no problem with this doctrine,
because it really just, everything in the Bible,
when we learn about authority or obeying,
God will often use himself as an example.
When he talks about the husband being the head of the wife
in 1 Corinthians 11, he also says,
well, you know who's the head of the husband?
Christ.
And then he says, you know who's the head of Christ?
God.
But wouldn't that be so bizarre if somehow the son wasn't
subject unto the father in any capacity or in any way?
Like saying, well, you know what?
Pastor Shelley is under husband Shelley, you know what I mean?
Like, the husband Shelley that tells the pastor
Shelley what to do.
It's like, that's bizarre, folks.
And if anything, the pastor Shelley
telling the husband Shelley what to do, right?
But I'm just saying, that doesn't even make sense.
But if there was literally another person
that was my boss or the authority or over me
or whatever, then that would actually make sense, OK?
And he's using those relationships
to illustrate how our relationship should be, right?
Just as the son submits to the father perfectly, us as men,
we should submit to this perfectly.
And just as men are supposed to submit to this perfectly,
women are supposed to submit to their husband perfectly.
And that is the model of our life.
Of course, Christ is way better at submitting
than all of us are, right, OK?
We struggle with this.
But let's look at another example of the separation
of wills here.
Look at 1 John chapter 4, verse 14.
And we have seen and do testify that the father sent the son
to be the savior of the world.
So we see that the father is the one sending.
We see the will of the father is the sending.
And the son is the one coming in the obedience of the father.
What did Matthew Henry say about this?
Because again, my view is not historical or something.
Well, let's just see what Matthew Henry
said about this verse.
He proclaims the fundamental article
of the Christian religion, which is so representative
of the love of God.
I love that sentence.
You know, what is the just core principle?
What is the most foundational doctrine of the Bible?
The father sent the son.
I mean, what is the most famous verse in the Bible?
For God so loved the world that he
gave his only begotten son.
I mean, that is the most core of core tenets
of the Christian faith is the father sending his son,
giving his son, but he doesn't really have one.
No, I'm just kidding.
That just ruins the little Bible, right?
He says that this is, he proclaims the fundamental article
of the Christian religion, which is so representative
of the love of God.
And we have seen and do testify that the father sent the son
to be the savior of the world.
Verse 14, we see, we hear seed.
Number one, the Lord Jesus' relation to God.
He is son to the father, such a son as no one else is.
And so as to be God with the father.
Number two, his relation in office towards us,
the savior of the world.
He saves us by his death, example, intercession,
spirit and power against the enemies of our salvation.
Number three, the ground on which he became so
by the mission of him.
The father sent the son, he decreed and willed
his coming hither in and with the consent of the son.
Now, how in the world is the son giving consent
if he himself doesn't even have a will, right?
Hey, Pastor Shelley, will you do this?
Well, I don't know, I guess I agree.
You know, it's like, this is weird when we're not talking
about the father and the son having wills
and it becomes meaningless when the son doesn't even
have a will to consent in the first place.
Why are we talking about obedience?
Why are we talking about all these different concepts
if there is no obedience?
It sounds like the son is consenting, I agree with him.
And again, how could I then read that and then suggest
that he doesn't believe in the idea of the separation
of will, the father and the son.
And this is not in the timeline of him being on earth.
This is the timeline of him being in heaven already, okay?
So go to John chapter 16.
This point's a little bit different,
but it's kind of the same context.
I believe that not only we have distinct bodies
within the Trinity, the father, the son, and the Holy Spirit
and distinct wills, I believe they all have
their own distinct consciousness,
their own distinct consciousness.
And that, to some degree, would give them
different experiences, different experiences
in the sense that the way that the father and the son
experienced the gospel was different.
That the father experienced it as the sacrifice of his son
and the son experienced it as him being sacrificed, okay?
And that the Holy Spirit also has his own frame
and form of consciousness.
And I wanna prove this from scripture, okay?
Look at John chapter 16 and look at verse 12.
I have yet many things to say unto you,
but ye cannot bear them now,
howbeit when he, the spirit of truth, is come,
he will guide you into all truth.
For he shall not speak of himself,
but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak,
and he will show you things to come.
He shall glorify me, for he shall receive of mine
and shall show it unto you.
Notice a few words here.
He shall not speak of himself.
How is that possible if he does not have his own self?
And here's another thing.
If you were speaking and it wasn't coming from you
and you could recognize that it was coming from you,
how could you recognize that without consciousness?
In order to recognize that you're communicating something
that's not what you're originating,
it's not you're the source of,
you would have to have a form of consciousness
to even make that recognition.
How about this?
What shall he shall hear?
How do you hear something without consciousness?
Have you ever noticed when someone's on the ground
and they're not moving and they're not responding
and you say, are they unconscious?
What is it that people do to check
if they're conscious or not?
Hey, can you hear me?
Right, raise your hand if you can hear me.
And if they hear you say, oh, they're not unconscious, right?
But if they're not moving or not responding,
they say, hey, they're unconscious.
They're not responsive, right?
And so usually hearing is a great indication
whether or not someone's conscious.
How can the Holy Ghost hear
without his own form of consciousness?
And notice that he shall speak
and he will show you things to come.
So the Holy Ghost is consciously aware
of hearing information in verse 14, receiving information,
and then speaking information
and recognizing it's not even him
that's the originating source of that text
or of that information.
And this is a really important chapter and verse
because there's so much taught about the Holy Ghost
that's wrong and just these few verses
debunk so many false doctrines.
Like many people say, hey, God told me this.
And I'm like, show me it in the Bible.
The Holy Ghost, it told me this.
Well, you know what?
The Holy Ghost doesn't speak of himself.
This is the only thing he can tell you.
He can remind you.
He can bring you into all truth.
But if you say, hey, the Holy Ghost told me
to get a red Ferrari.
I'm like, that wasn't the Holy Ghost, buddy.
Because he doesn't speak of himself.
He's not just originating a bunch of brand new content.
There's not like this new book of the Bible.
The Holy Ghost is like, hey, my rap.
You know, I added a ditty to the scripture.
No, no, no.
He brings things into remembrance.
He brings to us verses when we're sad
and when we're angry or when we're upset
or we're distressed or we're out soul winning
or when we're preaching
or when we're just interacting in daily life,
the Holy Ghost will remind us of verses
and he'll bring them to our remembrance,
flood our minds with them.
And that's the great power of the Holy Ghost.
Because we as fallible man and being weak,
we're not gonna always remember all this.
So it's nice to have someone whisper in your ear,
hey, this is what God said.
Don't you wanna remember that?
And it's important to be filled with the Holy Spirit
so that you can remember lots of verses
when you yourself aren't physically capable
or maybe you're just being weak.
He can give you that comfort.
And again, what is he called?
He's called the comforter, right?
You're sad and then he just whispers that verse
of scripture to comfort you.
You know, I'll never leave thee nor forsake thee.
You're just like, wow, I really needed that verse
to flood my mind right now
because I'm going through a hard time
or whatever the situation is
and that's what he's described as.
Also just a comforter in the sense that
when you don't know what to do in a situation
or you're lost, just knowing the truth
or getting the answer to something is a comfort.
And so the Holy Ghost, when you read the Bible
or you're struggling in life what to do
and then the Holy Ghost can speak to you
through the scripture and really connect dots for you
in the Bible, that's a comfort.
You know, this is the power of the Holy Spirit
but he's not speaking of himself.
He is giving us the words of the Father and of the Son, okay?
Look at chapter 14, go back to chapter 14.
I think this is just super clear
that he has his own state of consciousness.
And I remember when I went to Faith Award Baptist Church,
we had some people that were teaching oneness theology
and it was really weird.
And Pastor Anderson didn't know who all believed this junk
but I was someone that he wanted to question
just because I had been preaching a lot
and I remember him questioning about it
and he says, do you believe in this oneness stuff?
And I was like, I don't even know what that means.
He's like, do you believe in modalism?
I was like, I don't even know what that is.
And he's like, basically, you know,
Jesus is the Father and the Father's Holy Ghost
and all this and I said, well, you know,
the verse that I thought of initially,
the first verse I thought of was what I just showed you
and I said, well, the Holy Ghost can't speak of himself.
How is that possible?
The only way that's possible,
he's distinct from the Father and the Son, okay?
And to me, that's just a super clear text
of the idea that they can't be the exact same.
There's a distinction of what?
Will, consciousness, and I believe person.
Verse 14, I'm sorry, verse 23, John 14, verse 23.
Jesus answered and said unto him,
if a man love me, he will keep my words
and my Father will love him and we will come unto him
and make our abode with him.
He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings
and the word which he hear is not mine,
but the Father's which sent me.
How can Jesus genuinely say that the words he's giving
are not his and not even have any consciousness?
Obviously, the Son has his own separate consciousness
from the Father and we can see this distinction.
Go if you went to Philippians, chapter number two.
Go to Philippians, chapter number two.
I wanna keep showing you.
I don't, for sake of time,
I'm not gonna go to this other verse,
but I'll just give it to you.
Galatians 4 says this.
And because of your sons, God has sent forth
the spirit of his Son into your hearts crying, Abba, Father.
Now that's really impactful to me
because we're not getting a perspective
of the Father to the Son.
We're getting a perspective of the Son to the Father.
How can you have that perspective
if Jesus doesn't even have his own sense of consciousness?
He's looking at the Father, looking at him like Abba, Father
and that's the spirit of the Son.
Whereas we too have that same spirit
because God's our Father.
So he wants us to have that same viewpoint,
idea, mentality, as it were, of hey, Abba, Father.
God's our Father and we're yearning for our Father
and we love our Father and we get that same spirit
from his own Son, okay?
That's another proof text of the whole state
of consciousness that the Son has.
Now here's another thing that I wanna show you
and I think this is really impactful
if you can pay attention to this point,
but in Philippians 2, it's wanting us
to have a mind of Christ and it says in verse five,
let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus,
who being in the form of God,
thought it not robbery to be equal with God.
Now this is a verse that we've thought about a lot
but I wanna kind of take my context
to understand this verse for a second.
He's saying that we need to have a mindset, okay?
Now what was the mindset that Jesus Christ had?
His mindset was he didn't think it was robbery
to be equal with God, okay?
Is it saying that he's saying he is God?
No, it's saying he's equal with God.
That means that he, his mindset,
is equal to another person's mindset
because if you just are yourself,
you don't have to worry about it, right?
But he's saying I'm equal, I have the mindset
that I'm equal to God, therefore there has to be
at least two mindsets for that verse to even make sense.
If I said, hey, I didn't think it was robbery
to be equal with myself.
Like that doesn't really have any value, okay?
What the point is is that he's trying to say
he wasn't thinking it's robbery to be equal with God.
Why, because he is God, right?
Is he the father?
No, but they're both on an equal playing level.
Just like when it comes to the authority
of like something in our household.
You know, my children are supposed to obey my wife
and me equally, right?
Obviously, if there was a conflict, we get that contrast.
But just in general, my wife has the same level
of authority over my children I do
in the sense that my children are supposed to obey them.
So you could argue that my wife has the same mindset
that she's equal to me and enforcing rules on our children.
Why?
Because we're different persons.
It would not make sense if she's making a,
you don't contrast yourself to yourself.
An equation, you're contrasting two different things
and making them equal.
Otherwise, there's no point of it being an equal.
In math, you would just say it is.
A is A. But it's not A equals B. A equals B
is because there's two different things here
that we're talking about, right?
And so that's where you kind of see
another version of how we have two different minds.
And people will say, well, what about the mind of the Lord?
Well, sure.
There's places in the Bible where
it talks about the mind of the Lord.
And the Bible talks about the mind of Christ
and uses these interchangeably.
But if they have the same mindset,
it doesn't matter who we're talking about, does it?
What if sometimes, and this happens in the household,
they'll ask mom, can I have a cookie before dinner?
And mom's just like, no.
So then let's ask dad, all right?
But here's the thing.
A lot of times, parents are on the same page.
And so dad says no.
It doesn't matter if you ask mom or dad.
You're going to get the same answer, aren't you?
And so I believe in the same way.
I ask God the Father for something
or ask the Son for something.
Hey, I'm going to get the same answer.
Why?
Because they have the same mind.
They have the same vision.
They have the same will.
They have the same desires.
They're both God.
They're the truth.
They're fully God.
There's not something about the Son that's
lesser God than the Father.
But I believe that He truly does submit unto His Father.
Let's go to one more place, 1 Corinthians 15.
We'll kind of finish.
And that this is just a model for us.
Now, 1 Corinthians chapter 15 talks about the Son
and talks about the Father.
And from a timeline perspective, this
is kind of talking about the millennial reign,
where Christ is going to really rule on this earth
for about 1,000 years.
All these verses that talk about how
I've set my king up on his holy hill, and he's the king,
and he's going to rule, and we're
going to have a return to David and all this.
That has to happen.
There's going to be a literal kingdom, physical kingdom,
with Christ ruling and reigning on this earth
to fulfill a lot of prophecy.
A lot of prophecy has to be filled in that.
Now, look what it says in verse number 24.
Then cometh the end, when He shall have delivered up
the kingdom to God, even the Father,
when He shall have put down all rule and all authority
and power.
So it's talking about Christ.
It's saying at the very, very end of what we know
as kind of the earth as it is.
He's going to deliver the kingdom to God.
And it's like, the word even means specifically.
So specifically, He's giving it to the Father, right?
When He has put down all rule and authority and power.
For He must reign till He hath put all enemies under His feet.
The last enemy that should be destroyed is death.
For He hath put all things under His feet.
But when He saith all things are put under Him,
it is manifest that He is accepted,
which did put all things under Him.
And when all things shall be subdued unto Him,
then shall the Son also Himself be subject
unto Him that put all things under Him
that God may be on all.
Now, what was the timeline again?
The timeline is we're talking, this
doesn't even come close to happening yet.
We haven't even gotten to the return of Christ.
Then we have a whole 1,000 years after that.
So this is not talking about the incarnation, OK, folks?
We're like at least 3,000 years away from the incarnation
at this point in time.
And the Son has subdued everything.
Every single thing has been conquered, defeated, destroyed.
The Son is completely in power and control.
And then what does the Bible say?
That the Son also is going to be subject unto God.
And you say, well, for how long?
Well, this is when we enter into eternity.
This is when the Bible basically says
there's going to be time no more.
When death is going to be destroyed.
I mean, the Bible says death and hell were cast into the lake
of fire.
This is the second death, OK?
So every single person stands before God
at the great white throne judgment.
And they that are not found in the Lamb's Book of Life
are cast into the lake of fire.
And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire, OK?
And death is destroyed.
That's the timeline that we have, OK?
And there's going to be time no more, as the Bible describes
it.
So if there's time no more, that sounds like what?
Forever, OK?
Eternity.
So you say, well, how long is the Son
going to subject himself unto the Father?
Forever.
Right.
Oh, well, that's just talking about his incarnation.
No, it's not.
And this is almost where you get the male chauvinism viewpoint,
is that they'll say, well, if you think that the Son is
subjected to the Father, then you
think that the Son is lesser than the Father,
like he's a lesser God or something like that.
Well, you know what?
That's a foolish attitude, because you can submit yourself
unto someone and not be lesser than them in value.
And I believe the Son is equal in value to God the Father,
but him choosing to be obedient and subservient to his father
doesn't make him any lesser.
There's nothing that makes him lesser,
just like in the same way.
A wife who submits to her husband
does not make her lesser, just because she obeys her husband.
But the world today, because of feminism,
they want you to believe that a wife submitting
unto the husband, she's lesser now or something like that.
No, no, no.
Equal.
Equal, and in fact, in some areas of life,
the wife is more important.
In some areas, the husband's more important.
But in general, they're equal.
And there isn't either male or female in Christ.
And when it comes to God, it's not
a competition of who gets to be in charge or not.
It doesn't matter.
If you really have a team mentality,
it doesn't really matter who's in charge.
You just want to be who's in charge who's
going to be the best.
And so if you, as a husband and wife, say, you know what?
Let's just do whatever God designed us for
and what's going to be the most successful and the best,
God's like, hey, the man's supposed to be the one 100%
in charge.
That's how he's ordained it.
That's how he built men.
That's how he built women.
That's what makes sense.
That's what works.
So you just say, you know what?
I'm just going to submit myself unto my husband as a wife.
And you know what happens?
You know what?
You're blessed for that.
You're like how Christ is with his own father.
And how could that ever be a bad example?
Like, if Christ is willing to submit himself
unto his father for all of eternity,
how can you not then say, well, I
can submit him to my husband?
That's his example.
That's what he did.
And of course, Christ is the perfect example for all of us
and his level of submission and his level of obedience
and his level of sacrifice.
And it's often pictured as him, his love for the church
in a marriage, right?
Christ sacrificed himself.
He loved the church.
He gave himself to the church.
And so this is how husbands are supposed to relate
to their wives in the sense that, hey, we're
supposed to be sacrificial, loving, caring, nurturing,
providing for.
And this is how you have great relationships.
And some people say, oh, it sounds like you
believe in the social trinity.
Well, first of all, I don't like these labels
because there's a lot of who knows what that even means.
I don't even know what that means.
But if what you mean by that, that there's actually
three persons interacting and loving each other,
then I'm like, yeah, I believe that.
And that that's a model for us, yes, I believe that.
I think that God wants us to interact with him.
But for our church, when people say,
what do you believe about the trinity?
It's like, I just believe the trinity.
And of course, when we talk about the trinity,
it's kind of broken into three basic statements.
Number one, we believe there's one God.
You have to believe there's one God.
Number two, you have to believe there's three persons.
There's the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost.
And then the third is that all three persons are equally God
in the sense that the Son's 100% God,
the Holy Ghost is 100% God, the Father is 100% God.
And you say, well, how does all that make sense?
No one knows, OK?
And I've tried to articulate a lot of my fine tuning.
If someone disagreed with me, let's say someone says,
hey, I believe that God is, you know,
there's one God, three persons, and all three persons
are 100% God, I don't care how much you really disagree
with me on all the other stuff.
If you say, I think when we go to heaven,
we're only to Jesus on the throne.
I think that's silly, and I think
you're kind of like ruining a lot of the,
a lot of passages in the scripture.
Say, well, I think there's only one will.
I think you're denying a lot of verses, but you know,
I mean, obviously it's kind of somewhat
a little bit more advanced.
But of course, when someone gets really far into modalism
and they start saying Jesus is the Father,
now all of a sudden you destroy three persons, right?
So you didn't, you have to agree with all three.
There's one God, there's three distinct persons,
all three persons are 100% God.
When you start denying any one of those three,
now it's not legitimate.
Now you have a problem doctrinally, right?
Well, I think all three persons, you know, are three gods.
Well, that would be, no one believes this,
but like that would be heresy, right?
Some people believe there's not three persons, just one.
Heresy, wouldn't want anything to do with that person.
Or if they said there's lesser gods,
like somehow Jesus is lesser or created God,
that's like Mormon theology or something like that,
then at that point, that would be heresy.
But everything within that, you know what?
I mean, obviously there's gonna be some disagreement,
but I think it's still important to teach
some of the finer points of the Trinity
so we can get a better view of who God is
and we can appreciate the love he really has.
You know, I think the distinction of persons
is important to God, otherwise he wouldn't have given us
verses like John 3.16, the most famous verse in the Bible.
And that distinction between the persons
helps us relate to how a father sacrificed
and how a son was obedient unto his father
and how we too in our lives are supposed to be sacrificial
and be obedient in all the relationships that we have.
So let's go ahead and close with prayer on that.
Thank you Heavenly Father so much for giving us your son
and the free gift of eternal life.
Thank you so much for the obedience of your son
to be willing to die on the cross for all of our sins.
Thank you for giving us the Bible
so we could understand you as best as possible.
And I pray that in areas where it's difficult
that you would help us to get as much knowledge
as we can on this side of heaven.
And I pray that we wouldn't be led astray
by divers and strange doctrines,
that we would embrace the Trinity,
we would embrace the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost,
that we would love each person of the Godhead.
And I pray that as we study our Bibles,
you'd give us even greater appreciation
of all the different sacrifices and loves that we see
in scripture that you've modeled for us.
And I pray that you would help us to live better lives,
and in Jesus' name we pray, amen.
All right, we're gonna go ahead
and have our last crowdsourced hymn for the evening.
Because I call on Brother Adair,
I know there were some hands up already,
but Tatum, you're already ready to go.
What do you got, ma'am?
434.
Oh, Little Town of Bethlehem, we got some Christmas songs.
It's about that time, y'all better buckle up.
434, Oh Little Town of Bethlehem.
On the first.
Oh, little town of Bethlehem,
Bethlehem, how still we see thee lie.
Above thy deep and dreamless sleep
the silent stars go by.
Yet in thy dark streets shine
at the everlasting light.
The hopes and fears of all the years
are met in thee.