We're here in Ephesians chapter five and we're continuing our series on church problems.
And next week we'll start to get into envy and strife and divisions and kind of go through
those things.
But this is kind of more of an introductory sermon again, and it was something I decided
to kind of add to this series to kind of help out.
And so when it comes to church problems, one thing that will help us avoid major church
problems is if we can understand how church structure works.
And you have to understand churches can be a little bit different.
The structure of our church is a little bit different than Verity Baptist Church Sacramento
for the simple fact that we are a church plant of Verity Baptist Church Sacramento.
So you have to understand the church structure here is going to be a little bit different
than our sending church.
And it's going to be a little bit different than it will be in a few years when I'm ordained
as the pastor of the church.
It's going to be a little bit different.
So when it comes to church structure, number one, what is the leadership of our church
here, Verity Baptist Church Manila?
Okay, well, number one, when it comes to the head of this church, it is the Lord Jesus
Christ.
The leadership starts with Jesus Christ at the head of this local church.
Notice what it says in Ephesians 5 verse 22, wives, submit yourselves onto your own husbands
as unto the Lord.
For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church, and he
is the savior of the body, okay?
As a side point, if you want to help yourself out with marriage problems, realize in this
same verse here, it says the husband's the head of the wife, just as Christ is the head
of the church, okay?
But it says Christ is the head of the church, realize this is written to the church of Ephesus,
a local church.
He's not saying Christ is the head of this universal church.
What Paul's saying is, hey, church of Ephesus, Christ is the head of this church.
Now that certainly applies to the church of Galatia, and the church of Thessalonica,
and the church, Verity Baptist Church, Manila, but what it's saying is this, every bona fide
local church, the head of that church is the Lord Jesus Christ, okay?
Turn to Exodus 25, Exodus 25, you say, what exactly does that mean, brother Stuckey?
Because obviously the Lord Jesus Christ is not coming here to preach a sermon, he's not
coming here to tell us, okay, I want you to do this and this and change this, but he
left us with principles in the Bible of how to run a church.
So there are certain things that we do not do in this church because they're simply against
what the Bible says.
Now some things are neither for or against what the Bible says, but we use wisdom.
For example, we live stream the services.
That's not against the things of the Bible, but it's also not something where I could
say, thus saith the Lord, according to the Bible.
It's something we use wisdom, okay?
But there's certain things that are just not biblical and we don't do them.
An example of that would be the fact that we do not have an altar call at this church.
You say, why don't you have an altar call?
Well, it's not in the Bible.
That ought to be a good enough reason, but realize this, it would not be hard to have
an altar call in the Bible.
I mean, all you have is basically at the end of the sermon say, hey, everybody come up
here and pray at the altar.
Look, if Jesus wanted to do that, he would have done that.
There was nothing stopping them from doing that, but you know what?
They didn't do it.
You say, why?
Because he doesn't want his church to run like that, okay?
We preach before that, okay?
We preach on that topic.
That's not something you find in the Bible.
Notice what it says in Exodus 25, verse eight, and let them make me a sanctuary that I may
dwell among them, okay?
Now in the Old Testament, when they gave rules for a sanctuary, they said the specific color,
the specific size, the materials, very detailed information.
Now when it comes to us in New Testament days, look, we don't have to, the walls must be
white or the walls must be brown.
He doesn't tell us that, okay?
But it is a picture of the New Testament church where if Christ was going to dwell with them,
he said, I want you to do things exactly how I said.
If we want Christ to dwell with us at this church, you know what?
We must do things the way that the Bible says.
We don't have a right to change what the Bible says.
Why?
There's specific instructions.
Verse nine, according to all that I show thee after the pattern of the tabernacle and the
pattern of all the instruments thereof, even so shall ye make it.
Now turn to Matthew 16, Matthew 16, Matthew 16.
A big example of something that most Baptist churches do, but we do not do it because I
believe it is against the things of the Bible, is having a children's ministry where basically
you have the church service and then all of a sudden in the other room over there, instead
of a mother baby room, we're just going to make it junior church.
And we have somebody from our church preach the sermon to all these kids and everything
whose parents are not with them.
They're just kind of on their own and everything like that.
We don't do that at this church.
And you say, why?
Show me a verse that would say we should do that.
Now look, the Bible said, suffer the little children and forbid them not to come unto
me.
Okay.
We understand that children, you know, we want them to hear the gospel and things like
that and we want these kids to hear the word of God, but they must come with their parents.
You say, why?
Because every Baptist church that runs children's ministry, inevitably they are forced to have
the children in another room.
Why?
If the parents aren't there, they act up and if they keep the children in the service,
that means members of the church have to not listen to the service and babysit them.
Okay.
That's why we don't have a children's ministry.
Now our church would double in size overnight if we had a children's ministry, but we don't
do that because the Bible does not give us that principle.
Now whenever we run into these kids on Wednesday and we go soul winning, I always tell them,
and you can ask the people that come soul winning on Wednesday.
I always say, Hey, you know, where are your parents?
Bring your parents and then they can come.
If they bring their parents or an adult to chaperone them, then they can come to church.
But if they don't, then you know what?
It's not something we do.
And look, we honestly, we kind of tried it for a little while.
It didn't work.
And guess what?
It doesn't work anywhere.
I thought, Hey, maybe a new country, maybe on a small, no, it doesn't work anywhere.
Okay.
Especially in today's world where kids are not trained in basic, just morals and how
to say please and thank you.
Those things are not being taught to kids at a young age.
So guess what?
We cannot interrupt our church service to always have to deal with children while in
the middle of a sermon.
Okay.
And so look, we want children to come.
They must come with their parents.
And the reason why we follow this model is because in the Bible you always see that the
children are with their parents and they're hearing the word of God preached.
Everybody hears the word of God.
So we would not separate the kids from this room and over here we're singing loyalty to
Christ and then in another room they're singing, you know, somewhere in outer space, God has
reserved a place, blah, blah, blah.
Okay.
That's two different churches.
And look, I've been to churches that had junior church and look, if you're at a church like
that, you know, one day, by all means you can serve at that ministry and be a blessing.
I used to be the preacher at junior church, but I never believed in it.
I never thought it was right because it's not something found in the Bible.
Matthew chapter 16.
So when it comes to our church, the head of this church is the Lord Jesus Christ, which
means we must operate things based on what the Bible tells us.
Okay.
Matthew chapter 16 verse 13.
When Jesus came into the coast of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples saying, Whom
do men say that I, the son of man am?
Okay.
And so he's asking all of his disciples, who do people say that I am?
Who do they think I am?
And they said, some say that thou art John the Baptist, some Elias and others, Jeremiah
or one of the prophets.
So it mentions three people, John the Baptist, Elijah and Jeremiah.
All of these people came before the Lord Jesus Christ.
Even John the Baptist, you could look at as an Old Testament prophet, so to speak,
because he came before the resurrection of Jesus Christ.
So you're still under those Old Testament laws, like the Passover changes to the Lord's
Supper.
We see that.
And John the Baptist is kind of a transition, but these are some of the great people that
ever lived.
John the Baptist, Elijah, Jeremiah, and they all came before the Lord Jesus Christ.
And people tried to compliment Jesus by saying, man, it's like John the Baptist, but that's
an insult because he's better than John the Baptist.
They mentioned these people, man, he's just like all these great preachers from the past.
No he's not.
He's not like John the Baptist.
He's not like Elijah.
He's not like Jeremiah.
And they wanted to compare him.
And what Jesus is trying to explain and show his disciples is this, no man compares to
me.
And isn't that obvious?
That's what he says.
Nobody compares to me.
Then he says in verse 15, he saith unto them, but whom say ye that I am?
So in verse 15, he's talking to all of them.
Whom say ye that I am?
He is plural.
Okay.
Then Simon Peter responds verse 16 and Simon Peter answered and said, thou art the Christ,
the son of the living God.
And so Peter tells the Lord Jesus Christ, you know what?
You're the Christ, the son of the living God.
You're the Messiah.
You're the savior.
You're the way to heaven.
You're the real deal.
You're not like John the Baptist.
You're not like Elijah.
You're not like Jeremiah.
There's no comparison is what Peter's saying.
Okay.
And isn't that true?
There is no comparison.
This is what Jesus is trying to drive home to them, that there's no comparison between
me and another man.
I am the Lord Jesus Christ.
I am the savior.
Okay.
Now in the Bible, you'll often see this term referred to with the Lord as the rock.
Isn't that true?
You read your Old Testament and the Lord's our rock.
That's why we sung on Christ the solid rock I stand, right?
That's why we sung rock of ages, right?
That's why we sing these songs at church.
Why?
Because of the fact the Lord is the rock.
No man's the rock.
The Lord's the rock.
And he says this before he explains this in verse 18.
What he says is this.
He shows all these other people and shows they do not compare to me because I'm the
Lord.
This is the context of what's being said when he talks to Peter.
Then in verse 17, and Jesus answered and said unto him, blessed art thou Simon Bar-Jonah,
for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto me, unto thee, but my father which is in heaven.
Verse 18, and I say also unto thee that thou art Peter and upon this rock I will build
my church and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
Now what's funniest here in the Philippines, you got these Catholic churches.
They like to tell you, well, Peter's the rock.
The church was founded on Peter.
He is the rock.
Jesus said, you know what?
You're the rock.
The church is founded on you.
But didn't he just get done showing that nobody compares to him, right?
The rock is a term for the Lord throughout the entire Bible.
And he uses a comparison with John the Baptist, who was better than Peter, according to the
Bible.
John the Baptist, Elijah, Jeremiah, and he's showing, hey, they do not compare to me.
That's what he's illustrating.
And then Catholics take this one statement in verse 18, and I say also unto thee that
thou art Peter, and they say he's saying and upon this rock.
Now first off, grammatically, that doesn't really make a lot of sense because in verses
18 and 19, it starts off by saying unto thee.
And you see kind of a shift where he says upon this rock.
What he is telling Peter is this.
He's saying upon this rock, I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail
against it.
You say why?
Because throughout the Bible, who's the rock?
The Lord.
Nobody else is the rock.
And realize this, if he's saying, you know what?
You're the rock, Peter, and the gates of hell will not prevail against you because it's
built upon you, Peter, then how come when Peter denied Jesus three times?
I mean, if the church was built on Peter and he's the rock, then how come a little maid
basically makes him afraid?
Does that sound like a rock to you?
No, he backs down under pressure.
And look, the church is not built on Peter.
The church is built on the Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.
And look, if the Bible says the gates of hell shall not prevail against it, boy, it really
prevailed against Peter, didn't it, at the end of the gospels when he backs down.
And look, Peter makes a lot of mistakes.
The gates of hell will be prevailing over Peter all the time, just like with any man.
Why?
Because we're just men.
We make mistakes.
We are not the rock, okay?
The only rock is the Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.
The Lord is our rock, the Bible says.
So look, in the context of here, what he's telling him with this, with the church, with
the local church, who's the head of this church?
I mean, is it Peter or is it the Lord Jesus Christ?
It's the Lord Jesus Christ.
He's saying the Lord is the head of the church and with our local church, it's the same way.
I'm not the rock.
The Lord Jesus Christ is the rock.
Notice verse 19, and I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven.
See this is where people get confused because the Lord shows in this whole passage that
he's not John the Baptist, Elijah, or Jeremiah because he's the rock and that's what he states
in verse 18.
But then he says, I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven.
He does say, I will give you the keys, Peter, and he says thee, which is singular, specifically
referring to Peter, not any of the other apostles.
He's saying, Peter, I am giving you authority, not with this universal church, but with this
one local church that was started.
But what he's trying to remind Peter is this, hey, I'm still the rock though.
I'm giving you the keys.
You get to open the building, my friend, but I'm still the rock.
And that's something that everybody who runs a church needs to remember that the Lord's
the head of the church.
You're basically being put in charge.
When somebody gives you keys, basically it's saying, I trust you with this.
It doesn't mean that Peter's the rock though.
It just means he's being trusted by the Lord and Jesus Christ with the keys of the kingdom
of heaven for that local church.
That is what the Bible is saying.
And so then all of a sudden verse 19, I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of
heaven and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven and whatsoever
thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
So when it comes to basically situations at a church or church problems, the Lord has
given us the keys.
The person who runs the church, okay, they have the keys for that local church to basically
make those decisions and whatsoever's bound on earth is going to be bound in heaven.
You say, why?
Because the Lord Jesus Christ is not going to come down and help with church problems.
He leaves authority on earth.
He leaves a structure on earth.
So when it comes to our church, the Lord Jesus Christ is the head of this church.
You say, Brother Stuckey, are you second in command?
No I'm not.
Second in command would be Pastor Roger Jimenez from Verity Baptist Church in Sacramento.
Now turn to First Timothy three, First Timothy three, First Timothy three.
Now with the early church, Peter was an apostle, okay, he had all the apostles and everything
like that and he was given basically the authority there at the very beginning for that local
church.
Okay.
But what I want you to understand is this, in our modern day, we do not have apostles.
What we have are pastors, okay?
In the Bible, you'll see this term pastor and bishop and elder, and elder can mean different
things in the Bible.
It can refer to someone being older, but it also can be specifically referring to this
role of running a church, okay?
But pastor, bishop, and elder, they're three different terms to represent the same position,
but different aspects, different roles within that position, okay?
An elder obviously refers to someone with experience.
Basically someone who is more aged or at least has experience running ministries and
being at a church a while.
Basically they didn't get saved last week.
They've got experience, okay?
They can be trusted.
They're an elder.
They have experience.
So not like these Mormons, you got these little 18 year old Mormons that have this elder tag
on them.
It's like you might want to either read your King James Bible you say you believe in or
just read a dictionary to figure out what elder means, okay?
They literally pick the people that are basically at the very beginning, you're going on your
two year Mormon mission, we're going to call you an elder, okay?
That's just like the Bible Baptist do here calling people pastors, right?
And so basically they say, well, you know, we'll call them elder.
They're not elders.
They don't have experience.
They're 18 years old.
They're 19 years old.
They're not married.
They don't have kids.
And yet the Mormons call them elder.
Elder is referencing the experience of that role.
A pastor is used interchangeably with the term shepherd in the Bible.
A literal shepherd is taking care of the sheep.
And so what a pastor is referring to is basically caring about the flock, caring about the sheep.
That's where it's basically you pray for the members.
You care about the members, okay?
So that's the role of pastor within this position.
That's the role we often call people as pastor.
And the reason why is because that's probably the thing you want most out of your leader,
out of your pastor, is that he just cares about you, okay?
And so you have elder, you have pastor, then you have this term bishop.
And bishop is basically like an overseer, basically providing organization and structure
just like a boss would at a company, okay?
In 1 Timothy 3 verse 1, it's going to use this term bishop and then it's going to describe
requirements to be a bishop or a pastor or an elder.
1 Timothy 3 verse 1, this is a true saying, if a man desire the office of a bishop, he
desireth a good work, okay?
So the Bible says here, if you desire the office of a bishop, not the title of a bishop,
but if you desire the office of a bishop, you desire a good work.
What it's saying is if you desire to fulfill this role of being a pastor or being a bishop
or elder, hey, that's a good work that you're signing up for.
We need good churches, right?
So it's not desiring to be the title of pastor, but the work involved, okay?
Now it does say if a man desire the office of a bishop, okay?
So I don't want to break your heart, ladies, but you must be a man, okay, to be a pastor,
okay?
Verse 2, a bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober of
good behavior, given to hospitality, apt to teach.
So it says you must be the husband of one wife, once again, a guy who is married to
a woman, okay?
A guy who is married to a woman, the husband of one wife, so not multiple wives, but one
wife.
Now sometimes you'll hear churches that try to change what the Bible says here by going
back to the Old Testament and bringing up people like David or something like that who
had multiple wives.
David was a king.
He wasn't a pastor.
And yeah, he wouldn't have been qualified if he was around today, not that he wasn't
a godly person, but you know what, he says the husband of one wife, okay?
So look, if you find somebody in the Old Testament who had multiple wives, yeah, you're right,
they weren't a pastor.
They were a king or a leader or whatever they were, but they were not a pastor and they
wouldn't have been qualified, okay?
Because you're the husband of one wife.
That doesn't mean that you're more godly than other people.
Look, the day I got married, I didn't just magically become more godly the moment I said
I do, right?
It's just a requirement for the job.
Look, I mean, if you want to work as a mechanical engineer, they're probably going to require
you to have a degree.
It's just part of the requirements for that position, okay?
Just like you would have in jobs in this world, okay?
So you must be the husband of one wife.
So if somebody is not married, regardless of who calls them a pastor, they're not a
pastor and they don't have the authority to run a church or to be called a pastor.
It says the husband of one wife, verse 3, not given to wine, no striker, not greedy
a filthy lucre, but patient, not a brawler, not covetous.
Verse 4, one that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all
gravity.
So here it says that if you're going to be a pastor, you must rule your own house well,
okay?
Now I've heard some people say, well, you know, I don't think it means that you have
to have multiple children, but just that the children that you have are found faithful
or you're ruling them well, which could mean one or more.
Now I understand where they're coming from, but I don't get that interpretation.
And the reason why I disagree is both here and in Titus, it hones in on one specific
person.
If a man, it doesn't just say pastors in general, it says a bishop.
And so the application you draw from this is this.
He ruleth his own house.
That's singular, having his children plural, that would indicate he has multiple children.
Okay?
I do understand where people are coming from, but I would disagree because I believe you
see multiple children here.
So look, you cannot be a pastor unless you have multiple children.
So look, when I moved here to the Philippines, we had one child.
We had one son, Zephaniah, okay?
I would not be qualified to be a pastor because of the fact you need multiple children, right?
Now here's what it says in verse five, for if a man know not how to rule his own house,
how shall he take care of the church of God?
So the Bible says the reason why you need multiple children to be a pastor is you must
learn to rule your own house well, and it's the training ground to basically run a church.
Okay?
I've heard this before from churches where they say this, the first church you ever pastor
is your home.
I think it's a good phrase.
I think it's a good expression because there's a lot of truth to that.
You learn how to run your own house well, and that's your proving ground.
Hey, are you going to be able to run a church?
I mean, doesn't it make sense that if you can't run your own home, how can you be trusted
with a lot of people?
Right?
I mean, this used to be basic qualifications for being like a president.
Okay?
I don't know about here in the Philippines, but in the United States, many of the presidents
now are divorced.
It's like you're going to run the United States of America and you failed at like three marriages.
It's like, why would you be trusted with this entire country of 300 million people when
you couldn't be trusted with three people?
It's like, does it make any sense?
I mean, that used to be basic requirements just to be a politician, but look, the standard
of being a politician, at least in the U.S. has gone down dramatically, very, very, it's
hard to find a politician that hasn't been divorced in the U.S., right?
But doesn't it make sense?
If you're going to be trusted with something big, you have to be able to handle something
small first.
Makes perfect sense, right?
So you must have multiple children.
Now here's the thing.
In another place in the Bible, it says having faithful children.
Now you say, how old do those children need to be?
That is a very gray area topic.
One thing that's not gray area is it must be a man who is married to a woman.
And I also think it's pretty clear you must have multiple children, at least two, okay?
I think that's pretty clear in the Bible.
But how old do those children need to be?
That's a very gray area situation.
My personal opinion about this is that if a person gets ordained as a pastor, both the
person ordaining them must feel comfortable with how old those children are and the person
being ordained must feel comfortable.
For example, if Pastor Menes wanted to ordain me but I did not think my children were old
enough, then it would be dishonest for me to be willing to be ordained and say I'm a
pastor if I don't think I even feel that position yet, right?
Now this area, this age, there's a different opinion amongst people.
My opinion is I would not be qualified now.
My daughter's not even one year old.
I think in a few years, you know, maybe.
But it's a different opinion from various different people.
What I would say is this, both the person doing the ordaining and the person being ordained
should agree to it, okay?
For example, you know, there's churches where you don't have any children and you're not
married and your pastor's willing to ordain you.
The pastor says, hey, you know what, I think you're ready.
But if you're honest with yourself and you look at the Bible, are you ready?
So you must feel like you're actually ready, biblically qualified to meet that.
How old is that?
You know what?
It's a very gray area situation.
What I will say is this from talking to various different people, that once your kids start
to be a little bit older, you can start to tell whether or not they're going to follow
you or not.
And my daughter's very young right now.
So you know, we're not at the point where we're spanking her or anything like that.
But she's going to reach the point where she knows no, and we're going to see whether or
not she listens, okay?
You can start to see whether your kids are going down that road of being godly children
or not.
So I don't believe they have to be teenagers.
But I will say this, let's say, for example, someone says, you know what?
I want to be a pastor, but I think my children need to be like 10 years old or something.
Hey, if they want to wait because they don't think they're qualified, then there's no problem
with that.
Okay?
You must think that you're actually biblically qualified.
So probably in a few years here is when I would be ordained as the pastor.
But right now, I'm not the pastor of this church.
Pastor Roger Jimenez is a pastor.
Turn to Ephesians four, Ephesians four, Ephesians four.
So basically, Pastor Jimenez is like a representative of the Lord Jesus Christ here on earth.
That the Lord can trust him running a church because he was at a church.
He was ordained, biblically ordained, and then he was running that church.
He's basically a representative of the Lord Jesus Christ.
So what am I?
I am basically meant to be a representative of Pastor Roger Jimenez.
You say why?
Because he's appointed me the person to run this church.
He sent me out here because there's people ready.
And I wasn't qualified to be a pastor.
We were in agreement on that.
But he said, you know what?
I think you're ready to run a church.
There's people waiting.
And he asked me if I wanted to come out here and start the church.
With the understanding that I'm not the head of this church.
Not only is the Lord Jesus Christ the head, but then above me is Pastor Jimenez.
Okay?
So I'm basically running it on behalf of Pastor Jimenez.
Now you say, Brother Stuckey, is this biblical?
Well notice what it says in Ephesians four, verse 11.
And he gave some apostles and some prophets and some evangelists and some pastors and
teachers for the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying
of the body of Christ.
For an individual body of Christ, a local church, there's various authority structures
that you could use.
And one method is to have an evangelist run that church that either does not want to become
a pastor or is not yet qualified or for whatever reason.
But he's running it on behalf of the pastor.
Okay?
That is what we have here.
You say, well, what exactly does that mean in the real world?
What it means is I don't make the final decisions here.
Pastor Jimenez makes the final decisions.
Now when it comes to something small, like me deciding, hey, you know what, do we want
to bring those?
What is that?
I call them Bowser balls, Rombu, whatever the name of the fruit is.
Are we allowed to bring those?
I don't call up Pastor Jimenez and say, Pastor Jimenez, there's this spiky red fruit
that we don't have in the US and I was thinking about bringing it to church today.
Is it okay if we do that?
I don't ask things like that.
But when it comes to big decisions, of course I run things by him.
There's not a single big decision that's ever been made here that I made it without talking
to Pastor Jimenez about it first.
And you say, why?
Because of the fact I'm not the final authority.
Even buying these air con units, that was something that was approved first by Pastor
Jimenez.
This is how much money we have, this is about how much they cost, here's the reason why
I want, you know, think we should get them and things such as that.
It was approved first.
You say, why do you do it like that?
It's the same thing as if you worked at a company and you're basically the manager to
run it for the CEO.
They're going to give you some sort of authority, but at the end of the day, you still have
to report back to that CEO.
You better make sure you make the decisions that he agrees with, which means you're probably
going to have regular meetings to discuss things.
And every single week I give a detailed report to Pastor Jimenez, this is how many people
were in church for the, this is how many people were in church in Manila, how many in Pampanga,
this was the offerings here in Manila, in Pampanga, these were the amount of soul winners.
Detailed reports every single week.
It just makes common sense if you have a company to keep things organized and structured.
It will prevent major problems, okay?
Now before I became the evangelist here, what I was was a church worker, okay?
Now let me say this, other churches have different systems and some are unbiblical and then some
just wouldn't apply to us.
Some churches have deacons, we're not the size of a church that needs a deacon.
We don't even have a pastor that's local here yet, okay?
It's like we can worry about that, you know, five or 10 years down the road if we've gotten
a lot bigger, but there's no need for a deacon when you look at what a deacon is in the Bible,
unless the church is pretty big, right?
And so we do not have that, but at Verity Baptist Church, before I was an evangelist
here, before I was ordained, I was a church worker in Sacramento.
I was the first full-time worker of Verity Baptist Church.
You say, what exactly does that mean?
Well, I was reporting to Pastor Jimenez, we had weekly meetings in person to go over all
my to-do lists and things like that, but I was directly reporting to Pastor Jimenez,
okay?
Now the first day of working for Verity Baptist Church is probably very similar to the first
day you had at any company.
It's orientation.
What does that mean?
It means you have a long list of things you're gonna read and you're gonna agree to and everything
such as that.
It's all paperwork, right?
Here are some of the things that I agreed to when I started to work for Verity Baptist
Church.
I would not watch any movies or worldly television.
Now look, you as a member of this church, you're welcome to do whatever you want.
There's no requirements of your lifestyle to be a member of this church.
You can do whatever you want.
Obviously, you know what I preach, but it doesn't mean you have to follow it.
You're welcome to do whatever you want.
But doesn't it make sense that if you're gonna basically work for a church, there's strict
requirements of what you have to do, right?
I agreed I'm not gonna watch movies, I'm not gonna watch worldly television.
With the understanding, he assumed I wasn't doing that to begin with anyway, because otherwise
he wouldn't have hired me, right?
So he said, I will not watch movies, worldly TV, things such as that.
I will not gossip about any church members.
I will avoid getting in any fights.
And if I get in any fights, I have to be willing to say, you know what, I'm sorry, and just
be the higher person.
Why?
Because I'm representing that church.
I'm working for that church.
If any fight took place, I would have to make sure that you know what, I would be the one
who was wronged and say, I'm sorry, even if I was not the one who was wrong.
Just basic things like that.
There are even requirements for dress standards for both me and my wife, okay?
I had certain requirements I had to dress in, you know, at all church functions and
even things outside of church, okay?
I had to dress in a certain way.
For my wife, my wife had to wear dresses and long skirts, not just in church for functions
but even outside of church, at the grocery store.
You say, that seems pretty strict.
Does it seem strict?
Because if you worked for Coca-Cola, would you be able to wear a Pepsi shirt?
If you work for McDonald's, would you be able to wear a Jollibee shirt into work, right?
There's certain dress standards at a job, and it should be treated like it's a job.
And so there are requirements, because here's the thing, even though I'm the one working
for the church, at the same time, people would naturally look at my wife and they would hold
her to a very strict standard.
And she needed to look very good and be a very good representation, so she even had
standards of things that she was allowed to wear, okay?
And look, it makes sense if you're going to work for a church that you should be held
to a high standard, okay?
Now turn in your Bible to Acts 5, Acts 5, Acts 5, Acts 5.
Now let me say this, that I'll talk a little bit about the situation from six months ago,
but I do not want to dwell in the past.
I want to learn from the past, not dwell in it.
So this is probably the last sermon I'm ever even going to kind of make any reference to
because I don't want to just dwell in the past.
But this sermon series, I believe, will help us.
We can learn lessons from this, okay?
But let me say this, that when we hired somebody at this church, the same exact thing on day
one.
An orientation where basically they agreed to all of these things and they signed off
and they will not gossip about any church members.
They will not be involved in any fights.
They will not be watching television or movies or anything.
They agreed to all of that stuff.
Every single bit of it.
You say, why?
If you're going to work for a church, you get held to a high standard, a strict standard.
Now I will explain later on in the sermon briefly what I believe were my mistakes, things
I could have done differently, okay?
But let me just say this, this person was held to a very strict standard of things they
had to do, okay?
Now I want you to understand something, that when people are doing things that are wrong,
that would get them in big trouble, they're not going to do it in front of the people
where they would get in trouble.
They acted very differently in front of me than you.
I promise you that.
You say, Brother Stuckey, they didn't act that way in front of me.
I had no idea about it.
Don't you often hear Pastor Menes say the pastor is the last one to know?
Right?
Obviously I'm not the pastor, but what I'm saying is the church leader.
Yeah, you know what?
Because they acted very differently in front of me.
It's like, yes sir, thank you ma'am tan, everything's just very respectfully in front of me.
Why?
They were acting fake around us.
They weren't acting like they did when they weren't around us.
So a lot of stuff that was going on, look, I had no idea about it.
Why?
Because they acted differently in front of me.
But let me say this, they agreed on day one.
He agreed on day one, I will not do this, this, and this.
So look, there was no question, well, you can no longer work for this church because
you've broken just about everything on this list.
It's just a matter of how the overall situation was going to be dealt with.
You might say, Brother Stuckey, why did it take a while to deal with it?
Because of the fact I don't make the final decisions around here.
Because when a big situation comes up, I have to talk to Pastor Jimenez about the situation.
And with some things he might say, you know what, I want you to gather more information
about this.
So a big decision might take several weeks to deal with.
Because you're figuring out, how are we going to deal with this situation?
I don't have the authority to make final decisions like that.
You say why?
Because when it comes to big decisions, even buying these air con units, I had to ask Pastor
Jimenez about it.
That's just how you would logically run a church plan.
If we ever run a church plan in the future, we would run it the exact same way.
Now let me say this, it was a mistake on my part not to be a little bit more transparent
about it.
You know, with the person we hired, they must abide to certain standards.
If we ever hire anyone in the future to realize this, they will be held to a strict standard.
And if they break any of those things, then they can't work for the church.
It doesn't mean they'll get kicked out of the church if they're caught doing something.
I mean if somebody gets caught smoking a cigarette that works for the church, they won't get
kicked out of the church for that.
They would be fired though.
You say why?
Because there's strict standards to work for a church and you are representing the church.
And when you don't make a good representation, it makes me look bad, it makes Pastor Jimenez
look bad, it makes the Lord Jesus Christ look bad, it makes our church look bad.
So in the future, if we ever hire someone to realize this, hey if they're caught doing
things that maybe other church members do, but look, they're not allowed to work for
the church like that.
And so that is stuff that, you know what, you should let me know about.
You say why?
Because of the fact they're making it an embarrassment to our church when they're not having a good
standard at our church, okay?
Acts chapter 5, Acts 5.
Acts 5.
Look, when it comes to operating a church, I understand a lot of Baptist churches, it's
like free for all Baptist church.
That's not how Baptist churches ought to operate.
It ought to operate where basically there's a person in charge that's basically running
the show and you know, there ought to be a bit of a healthy fear of doing things that
are wrong, just like at your company.
If you have a boss at your company, you know what, you should be afraid to do wrong in
front of them.
Just like, oh, I'm just gonna, you know, just be texting for 20 minutes in front of my boss,
you know, you wouldn't do that at work, right?
So when it comes to working at a church, you know, church ought to operate like a business.
I must be about my Father's business.
That's what the Lord Jesus Christ said.
It must be operated professionally and held to a high standard, okay?
So number one, leadership.
What is the leadership?
It starts with the Lord Jesus Christ, then it's the pastor, which for us would be Pastor
Roger Jimenez, then it comes to me running this church and if we ever hire somebody in
the future, then it would be like a church worker.
Now we have people that volunteer for various different things and you know, when it comes
to people volunteering, I'm not gonna be super strict with people that volunteer because
of the fact they're just volunteering.
They're not getting paid, right?
But you know, honestly, just in general, the people that volunteer, they have enough of
a high moral standard and character just to be very respectful anyway, right?
Which is what I used to do when I was at a church before I worked for a church.
You know, it's just kind of natural that you want to be respectful and things such as that,
okay?
I don't hold volunteers to a strict standard, but even when it comes to picking the music
on Sunday morning, you say, Brother Succy, who picks the music on Sunday morning?
Well, I let the people pick the music that lead the music and I basically approve it.
And sometimes, like today, I said, you know what?
I want you to sing Rock of Ages, the solid rock and Loyalty to Christ.
You say, why?
Because it ties into the sermon.
So look, when it comes to even picking the music, you know what?
It's operated professionally.
And you say, why do you do it like that?
Because when I led the music of Verity Baptist Church, guess how we did it?
I reported to Pastor Jimenez, hey, these are the songs that we're gonna sing.
And sometimes he would say, you know what?
That first song is a little bit too slow.
I want you to switch that to a faster paced song.
Okay?
Now look, other churches operate things differently.
But I will say this, the more organization and structure, the less likely to have major
problems happen.
It's just common sense, right?
So number one is leadership.
Number two is loyalty.
Leadership, loyalty.
So where should your loyalty be?
Okay?
Well, number one, it's to God first.
Loyalty to Christ, right?
No question about it.
Your loyalty ought to be to God, number one, above anybody else.
Acts 5, verse 28, saying, did not we straightly command you that you should not teach in this
name?
And behold, you have filled Jerusalem with your doctrine and intend to bring this man's
blood upon us.
Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, we ought to obey God rather than
men.
Now there's this kind of attitude, you know, being loyal to the pastor no matter what.
An example would be if your pastor commits adultery and they expect you to stay at that
church and be loyal because I was the one ordained, I'm the pastor of this church.
But wait a minute.
That goes against what the Bible says.
You're no longer qualified to be a pastor, so your loyalty ought to be to Christ above
the pastor of the church.
It means you ought to leave that church, right?
And so look, your loyalty, number one, is always to Christ.
I've been at churches where they have an altar call at the end and they try to force you
to come up where it's optional technically, but not really.
It's like, let's just sing one more stanza.
I mean, I've even heard at churches before where I've heard them say, there are two people
in the crowd that have not come down to the altar.
And it's just like, you know, talk about rude, right?
Talk about bastos, right?
It's like, what in the world?
And they try to force you to come down to the altar.
Now look, I would not come down to the altar no matter what the pastor said.
And you say, why?
Because of the fact you're not supposed to pray to be seen of men.
And if I come down to pray to be seen of men, that goes against the Sermon on the Mount.
Okay?
Now confessing my faults, one time I went down to the altar, okay?
But I did not realize that it was against the things of the Bible.
I just felt, man, I thought it was weird, but I was like, man, I should go down, okay?
My good friend, Pastor Jason Robinson, was right beside me, and that is the only time
he went down.
Okay?
Loaded your friends, right?
Well, sorry, Jason.
I'll apologize later to him, okay?
But you know, we went down and, you know, we felt pressure to go down.
You've been at churches like that.
They try to pressure you to go down to the altar, okay?
Look, I wouldn't do it because of the fact, you know, the Bible says not to pray to be
seen of men.
So I believe that would be breaking the rules of the Bible.
Fear God and keep his commandments, for this is the whole duty of man.
That's what the Bible says.
You're not commanded to obey your pastor if he tells you to do wrong.
But I will say this.
Now turn to Psalm 92, Psalm 92.
When it comes to loyalty, it should always be to God first.
But when it comes to loyalty to church versus friends, loyalty ought to be to church above
friends.
Your loyalty should be to church above your friends, okay?
Now let me say this.
I've been at churches before where you don't even know if the pastor's saved and he's unclear
about the gospel, and you have kind of two churches within one church.
You guys know what I'm talking about?
Your old Baptist churches, it's like there's two groups.
There's the soul winners that read the Bible that say it's by faith alone, and it's the
people that say, well, you guys are arrogant and you got to repent of your sin.
It's like two churches within one church.
And I've been in those situations.
And when you're in those situations, you know, it's pretty frustrating because you want to
be loyal to the pastor.
You want to be loyal to the church, but it's kind of like, you know what, your loyalty
really is to your close friends.
We don't have that problem at our church.
You know how other churches would deal with, I mean, we're not in that situation because
I'm very clear about the gospel.
It's by faith alone.
There's no question about it.
We don't have that problem here.
I always look at a good church like this.
My friends are the people that are part of this church.
This is my church family.
These are the people that I'm closest to.
So your loyalty ought to be to your church above your friends.
You say, why?
Because friends come and go.
Friends come and go.
It's reality.
Matthew 22 verse 12, the righteous shall flourish like the palm tree.
He shall grow like a cedar in Lebanon.
Those that be planted in the house of the Lord shall flourish in the courts of our God.
Those that are planted in God's house are going to flourish.
They shall still bring forth fruit in old age.
They shall be fat and flourishing.
What's that saying?
They're going to be soul winners until the day they die.
If they do what?
If they stay planted in a good church.
Friends come and go.
Friends will be here and then they're going to leave.
We've had people at a church that were here and then they left.
If your loyalty remains with your friends and then you leave with them, what's it going
to do to your life?
Your loyalty ought to be to church above your friends.
Look, I understand.
I've joked before about loyalty to pastor, that song and everything, but I want you to
understand that yeah, your loyalty ought to be to church above your friends if you're
at a good bonafide church.
Loyalty ought to be to church above your friends.
Now obviously loyalty is to Christ above the church, but after that, this is your church
family and the way I look at it is if somebody is part of our church, you know, I care about
those people.
I pray for those people.
Those are the people I care about.
You say, Brother Stuckey, that's easy for you to say because you're the one running
this church.
Look, my wife and I, you know, we had good friends that left Verity.
The best man at my wedding was a member of Verity Baptist Church.
He doesn't go to Verity Baptist Church anymore.
See Brother Stuckey, did you and your wife leave when they left?
No.
Why would I destroy my life?
Right?
It wouldn't make sense to destroy.
I've seen a lot of people leave from West Virginia and other places, other churches
I've been to.
You see good people and sometimes they go for various different reasons.
I'm not going to leave because my friend leaves though.
My loyalty, I mean, unless the pastor committed adultery or something like that, then yeah,
you know, you need to leave that church too.
But look, if they didn't do anything wicked like that, loyalty ought to remain to the
church above your friends.
You say why?
Because of the fact, you know what, you have great friends at this church, but you already
have great friends here.
Why would you want to be friends with someone who would basically leave a church and cause
problems at a church?
Okay.
Now turn in your Bible to Proverbs 20, Proverbs 20, Proverbs 20.
You say, Brother Stuckey, what exactly does this mean?
Here's what it means.
If your friends start committing wicked sins and you cover it up and don't tell the church,
where's your loyalty?
Look, I want to learn from the past.
I'm not mad at anyone because the people that needed to go are gone and I love everybody
in this room.
But I just want to say when you have a bunch of friends that are meeting together to discuss
the situation and I have no idea about it, where's your loyalty?
It's to your friends over the church, right?
And what does that do?
Well, it spreads a wildfire.
It doesn't fix the situation.
Now, I'm really not mad about what happened because you know what, what happened caused
what needed to happen to happen, right?
So I'm not really upset because you know what, we have great unity now.
We're united as a church.
But here's what I'm saying.
Where in the Bible do you get this thing?
Well, you know, outside of the church, we're going to have like a meeting between friends
to decide how to handle this situation.
Is that what you find in the Bible?
That's not what you find in the Bible.
You need to run things properly with organization.
Okay.
Now you say, Brother Stuckey, I mean, didn't you know about all this?
I had no clue about a lot of this stuff.
It's like good night.
I had no idea.
No, I mean, we were at a missions trip.
At a missions trip.
Look, I'm busy at a missions trip, excited, having a great time.
Of course, my wife and I, we go home to relax because we have a family now.
Okay.
Our kids are young.
Having kids, young kids out for a long time, they can start acting, you know, very makulit.
Right.
So we didn't hang out at the restaurant where everything happened.
And it's just like, you know, am I magically going to know these things happen if nobody
tells me?
I mean, am I omniscient?
Do I know everything?
No, I don't.
You have to actually tell me.
Now, here's the thing.
I admitted that, you know what?
It was my fault not to be more transparent.
The fact that if somebody works for a church, they have a specific things where there's
no question they broke those things.
They would be fired.
That was never a question.
Let me reiterate that.
That was never a question.
But you still talk to the head of the church outside of the Lord Jesus Christ, the pastor
of the church, to discuss the situation and figure out how are we going to go forward
with this situation?
That's why it takes a few weeks.
If there's ever a big situation at a church, look, don't be surprised if it takes a few
weeks to deal with it.
Okay.
And look, there's many reasons and there's many ways to handle things.
Look, it gets complicated.
Look, it's not fun to make decisions.
It's really not.
I'm really thinking about telling Pastor Mendez, hey, 25 years from now, I want to get ordained.
That way I can still just, you're the one who makes the ultimate decisions, right?
Less stress on my life.
Pastor Mendez is still the pastor of this church.
Sounds great to me, right?
It's just like, you know, it's not really fun to make all these decisions and have to
make big things.
Look, it's hard.
And you have to realize when you make big decisions, usually they're a permanent decision.
You need to be careful with making permanent decisions where there's the point of no return.
You must make sure I'm making the right decision.
It'll be like if you made a decision like I'm going to move somewhere.
You better make sure you're making the right decision.
You say, why?
It's the point of no return.
It's kind of too late to go back or you really, you know, lost a lot of money.
Right?
I mean, I always tell you, and you can ask, you can ask Brother Matthias this, whenever
people talk about moving from another country, I try to get them like, I almost try to tell
them not to move.
It's like, you better make sure you know what you're doing.
You have money saved up.
You have a job plan lined up and everything like that.
I mean, in the email, I apologize if I'm bringing you up, in the email, he's like,
don't try to convince me not to come.
I'm coming and everything like that.
And it's like, because I don't encourage people to move from other countries because, hey,
that's a decision where there's almost no return from it.
It's a big decision you're making.
I mean, you quit your job.
It's too late after that point.
Big decisions.
You got to be patient with making big, with easy decisions.
Hey, you know what?
Make the decision.
But if you're going to, let's say, propose to your girlfriend, that's a big decision.
That's not something where, hey, I woke up and man, I've really been thinking about her.
I just met her two days.
I'm going to do it.
I'm just going to propose.
Make sure you know what you're doing, right?
Big decisions.
You got to be patient.
And with a church plant, these things are run by Pastor Jimenez.
And look, I've seen this in action from other church plants, Verity has done it with the
big decisions.
Guess what?
Pastor Jimenez is involved always when people are kicked out of church.
He's always involved.
And I say, why?
Because at the end of the day, if I make a bad choice, he would look bad.
So he wants to make sure things are being done the proper way.
Okay.
You know, when I was in my mid to late 20s, you know, probably my late 20s, I tore my
ACL, my meniscus, and my knee.
I was playing soccer and, you know, I was fighting for the ball and then the ball went
over my head.
I turned and my leg just popped.
My knee popped.
And so it popped and everything.
I tore my ACL, my anterior crucial ligament, and my meniscus.
You say, Brother Stuckey, that had to hurt a lot, right?
It did not hurt at all.
Didn't hurt at all.
I knew something was wrong.
I heard a loud pop and it felt weird.
It did not hurt, though.
I assumed if you tear your ACL, it's a pretty major injury, you're going to be in a lot
of pain, right?
I wasn't in any pain.
And so, you know, I went off the field and everything.
I was like, man, I started to stretch.
I was kind of moving around.
Like, I want to make sure everything's okay.
And a couple minutes later, guess what I did?
I went back into the game.
Say why?
Because I knew I had a torn ACL.
And then I kind of went off after a couple minutes.
I realized, man, something's not right and everything.
But you know, look, I don't like going to the doctors, okay?
They that behold need not physician, but they that are sick.
So I wait till I'm really sick.
I wait till I'm at the point where I really need to go, right?
So I woke up the next day and my knee was like this big, right?
It was really swollen, but I figured I've been injured 100 times before.
Just rest it.
Give it some ice.
I'll be playing in two weeks, right?
And so basically I rested and everything like that.
And you know, the swelling went down and everything.
And what did I do?
I went out and played soccer a couple weeks.
And you know, I did that for a while, actually.
And to be honest, I was running 20 miles a week with a torn ACL.
I had no idea I had a torn ACL, because when you tear your ACL, you can still run forward.
The problem is when it turns.
So I would play soccer and I was doing fine.
I was running just as fast as I always was.
And then all of a sudden I would just fall and hit the ground because my knee would kind
of turn.
So if I was trying to like move a little bit to one side, I would just immediately hit
the deck.
And so I did this for a while because I figured it's just minor and I was like, okay, I'll
just go to the doctors eventually.
I went to the doctors and I figured they're going to say that I, you know, maybe tore
my MCL, which is not anywhere near as bad, or there's minor cartilage damage.
They had to clean it up.
I figured in a couple weeks I'll be back out there.
Just minor surgery.
And then they told me I had a torn ACL and a torn meniscus.
I'm thinking my knee doesn't even hurt.
How is that even possible?
I mean, I knew something was wrong with this body part, but I didn't think it was that
bad.
I perceived something was wrong with this body part.
And eventually I realized, you know what, okay, I really need to go into the doctors.
You say, brother sucky, did you not realize anything was wrong?
No, I perceived something was wrong for a while.
I did not have hard evidence about it though.
I went into the doctors once I had hard evidence, my body part is really messed up.
I perceived for a while there was something going wrong.
My wife and I talked about it and I was just like, but you know, it's just like without
hard evidence, I'm not going to make that decision.
I mean, if somebody is on trial for murder, they can't be convicted as guilty unless you
got evidence, right?
It's the same thing with a big situation at church.
Did I perceive something was wrong?
Absolutely.
I perceived it for a while.
You know, just things didn't seem right.
Different things that were said, but it's very circumstantial evidence.
And look, this same situation happens in every great church in the world where pastors, I
mean, literally, because look, I know pastor men is very well.
Okay.
I worked for him.
We had meetings every week.
Obviously he's my friend.
I know him.
And look, sometimes there's people where you're just like someone at church.
Something's not right, but I don't have any evidence.
Well, I can't just make this a free for all and start kicking people out when I sense
something's wrong.
Like, like, you know, I'm, I'm some guru or something.
I don't know.
And it's like, I need evidence.
Right?
I mean, doesn't that make sense?
Because if I started kicking people out and they say, well, why did they get kicked out?
And it's like, well, I just sensed that they're bad or something.
You know what?
Everyone, I'm going to lose all my credibility.
I mean, isn't that true?
And so it's like, there has to be real evidence.
And like I said, you know, it's my fault for not being more transparent with somebody's
hired.
Look, if they're breaking any of those things, they're, they're immediately have to be fired.
It's just a matter of how to fully handle that situation.
So I'm admitting, you know, I'm learning lessons from the past.
But what I'm saying is this.
You know what?
My biggest mistake, actually look at Proverbs 20 verse six, Proverbs 20 verse six.
Most men will proclaim everyone his own goodness, but a faithful man who can find.
Proverbs 20 verse six, a faithful man who can find, and the Bible says, it's not hard
to find people that will brag about how great they are.
What's hard to find is a faithful man, someone you can just count on to do what's right.
And a pastor man has told me this, you know, before he started this church and he said,
Whenever you pick people for positions in church, pick them not based on their ability,
pick them based on how faithful they are.
And you know what?
That's a good statement.
And he said that was a lesson that he learned from the past.
Okay.
And look, I'm sure it's something that probably every pastor has learned before.
You learn, you know, you need to pick people that are just faithful.
You can just count on them, right?
Not based on, you know, who's the most talented necessarily, but who can you just trust to
get the job done where if you ask them to do something, you can guarantee it's going
to happen.
You say, brother, what are you saying is a big mistake?
My biggest mistake was hiring someone that I knew had character issues.
And the reason why is because of the fact, you know, we had a new church plant we were
doing and I was at the time not preaching the same sermons on Saturday as Sunday, which
I am now.
So it's not different sermons.
So I was preaching five different sermons a week.
And look, I still do all the accounting for Verity Baptist Church.
I still do the soul winning maps.
I still transcribe sermons.
I stay busy in my secular job.
I mean, it's for church, but I stay busy throughout the week.
On Monday, I work for Verity Baptist Church on Tuesday, Wednesday, I mean, I have a lot
of work to do for Verity Baptist Church.
And I'm glad because, you know what, I would prefer to do that because, you know, it helps
not taking a paycheck from this church.
But I also realized, man, I'm going to be running two churches, preaching five different
sermons during the week.
And look, when you preach sermons, if you want to make them good, you got to put in
the time.
Now I can just get up here and yell and just, man, man, man, Genesis 19, right?
But that's not my goal.
I want to actually preach sermons that are helpful.
So, you know, I was like, you know, we're really busy.
We have the money.
I just want to be able to count on someone who can just pick up the church supplies and
do the very basic stuff so I don't have to worry about it.
Now, look, it did not work out how I intended it to at all.
And you know, I realized, but my big mistake was this, you know, if someone's already proven
to have character problems before, which there was no question about, then anyway,
it's a mistake to put them in a position to trust them for something because it ends up
being a disaster far before they ever get kicked out of church.
It's just like, you know, why do I find myself more busy than, you know, I was like months
ago?
You know, beforehand, it's like, you know, just basic stuff, right?
So my biggest mistake, in my opinion, is not really how I handled the last couple months.
Now you could disagree with me, and that's fine.
But my biggest mistake, in my opinion, was just hiring someone to begin with.
And look, in the future, you know, that's something I've learned, I will not make the
mistake.
If we ever hire someone, it's going to be someone that I trust, that's found faithful,
that's godly, that doesn't get into fights and things such as that.
Not someone that's already broken some of those things in the past.
That was my biggest mistake, okay?
But honestly, handling the situation, you have to have evidence to kick somebody out
of church.
And I get it, sometimes you have someone you don't like at church.
I had people at Verity Baptist Church where I was just like, I don't trust this person,
I'm not a big fan of this person, and I still have to smile and be nice to them and everything
like that.
And it's just like, you know, that's just part of life.
Sometimes people come into church and sometimes they cause problems and sometimes they have
to go, okay?
But you must have evidence to do this.
So those are my lessons from the situation.
But in terms, because point one was leadership, point two, loyalty.
Point three is lessons, okay?
Now how about for all of us, okay?
What lessons can we learn from this situation, okay?
Now turn in your Bible to Proverbs 18, Proverbs 18, Proverbs 18.
There are a lot of verses you can find about being loyal to friends, and I understand that.
But everything in the Bible, you must take it in its proper context and realize all possibilities
here.
You can't just take a verse and say, well, I'm gonna be loyal to my friend no matter
what.
Well, what if they commit murder?
What if they commit adultery?
I mean, how far are you gonna take that loyalty?
Look, I agree with being loyal to friends.
I say, yes, we ought to be loyal to friends, but you can only take that so far.
I believe in being loyal to church.
You can only take that so far, right?
I believe in loyalty, but you have to take it.
I mean, a false balance is an abomination to the Lord.
If you're all the way over here or all the way over here, they're both wrong.
The truth sometimes in the middle.
So yes, loyalty, that's something we're missing in our world today.
But, you know, you can take that loyalty too far with friends.
Okay, Proverbs 18, verse 24, a man that hath friends must show himself friendly.
And there is a friend that sticketh closer than a brother.
And the Bible says there's a friend that sticketh closer than a brother.
And let me say, I understand why people wanted to cover for them and everything and not,
you know, let me know about it and stuff like that.
I understand he that cover the transgressions seeketh love and a friend loveth at all times
and things such as that.
But I want you to understand, that's not how you operate a biblically based church though, okay?
When you're operating a biblically based church, it must be organized and structured.
And the person running the church needs to be aware of things that are going on.
You say, why?
Otherwise, big problems can happen.
That's just reality.
I understand being loyal to your friends.
And by all means, I've said this before.
Hey, if you catch someone at our church smoking a cigarette, you know,
you don't have to tell me about that, okay?
Now that's different if somebody were to work for our church.
But let me say this, if you're not sure whether or not you should tell me about something,
just tell me about it.
If you're like, I'm 50-50, tell me about it.
You're not gonna get in trouble.
Many men at this church have told me about situations.
I didn't yell at a single one of them.
I appreciated them letting me know.
If you're not sure about it, then that means you probably should tell me, okay?
If you're not sure, just tell me about it so I can be aware of it.
What could happen is maybe I'll preach a sermon and cover that
so I don't have to just be a jerk to someone's face or something.
And I've done that before.
I preach sermons and I kind of put it in there.
And I'm paying attention in my eye.
Is this person getting what I'm saying?
It's like, okay, they got it.
I don't have to just, you know, really talk to them.
Because look, I don't want to have to talk to someone's face one-on-one
and just say, man, I hate you if you don't.
That's not really my personality.
But in sermons, sometimes I do mix something in
that I'm just like, this is something that needs to be said.
Anyway, I believe that's in general a better way
because I don't have to really offend them and stuff like that.
It obviously depends on the situation.
But I want you to understand, if you're not sure about a situation,
please tell me about it.
You catch somebody at church that's teaching something
that we just totally disagree with.
And they're just secretly teaching something against the church
and everything like that.
And they're just getting together with their friends.
And then you don't tell me about it.
And then all of a sudden everybody in the church
knows about this heresy but me.
And look, that happens in churches.
You see that at churches.
I've even heard of a good independent fundamental Baptist church, old IFB.
But there's good old IFB churches in the US
where the pastor showed up to church and there was a church split.
Half the church was gone.
He's like, what happened?
And it's like, well, so-and-so took half the church with him.
It was like an old-fashioned chorus situation.
And Moses had no idea.
Why?
Because leadership's never told about it.
Everyone's embarrassed to tell leadership about it, right?
It's like you're not gonna get in trouble
if you tell me about a situation.
It's something that, you know what,
I probably need to know about if you're not sure about it.
Now I will say this, from my experience,
there are certain men in this room
that don't seem to have a problem with telling me stuff.
And obviously, if you tell me something,
you do it respectfully, do it quietly.
Don't tell all your friends, tell me about it, okay?
Now you might say, Brother Stuckey,
I've told you about stuff in the past
and it didn't seem like you dealt with it immediately.
I cannot deal with big decisions immediately.
You say why, I'm not the pastor of this church.
I have to take in the information
and sometimes it's best just to sleep on it,
think about it, pray about it,
think about what does the Bible say about it.
Sometimes it's best not to rush into the decisions.
But just because I'm being patient of handling a situation
doesn't mean I'm ignoring the situation.
Whenever we've had church problems, I've dealt with them.
Right, when there's people that had to go from our church,
they were kicked out of church.
I have no problem dealing with it
if I have to, but maybe I will be more patient
than you would want me to do.
But if you're not sure, please tell me.
You say why, because you always will hear
a pastor a minute say what?
The pastor is the last to know.
And you know what, I did not understand that
until I get it now.
The leader is the last to know.
I mean, it makes sense to me now.
Okay, now turn to Proverbs 22, Proverbs 22, Proverbs 22.
I want you to understand a couple things.
If you have to cover for your friends
doing really bad things, I want you to realize
if somebody has such low character to do really bad things,
you know what, those same people are gonna have
low character in terms of the fact that
when they get in trouble, they'll try to throw you
all under the bus.
Let me tell you something, they try to throw
every single one of their close friends under the bus.
They're getting kicked out, they try to get
other people kicked out.
They try to get other people in trouble.
I mean, even long time afterwards, months after,
trying to call me, it's like,
I don't wanna talk to them.
Say why, I don't wanna hear their lies.
I don't believe it.
I've heard them criticize a lot of people at this church,
especially when they found out they were getting kicked out.
And that's how they try to say,
does that sound like a true friend?
It's like you cover for these people,
and then when they're getting kicked out,
they throw every single one of you under the bus.
Well, you know, brother and sister so and so did this.
It's like, they're not on trial.
It's like, why are you telling me that?
Because they're trying to justify themselves
by tearing down their closest friends
or the people they claim were their closest friends.
Talk about being a true friend.
Right now, have I discussed all this stuff?
Look, as I said, this is the last sermon.
I plan to even make reference to this.
And look, I just don't wanna just discuss everything
and make it some big thing, okay?
What had to happen happened, and as time went by,
and most people are back at church now,
we're having a church series,
and look, this is the last sermon.
You have to worry about me making reference to it.
But we should learn from the past, okay?
You are loyal to people that weren't very loyal to you.
That's the reality, okay?
Proverbs 22, verse 24.
Make no friendship with an angry man,
and with a furious man, thou shalt not go,
lest thou learn his ways and get a snare to thy soul.
The Bible says do not become friends with an angry man, okay?
And look, if somebody's an angry person,
just fight after fight after fight.
According to the Bible, that's not the person
that you really wanna be best friends with.
So look, if you consider those people friends,
well, you didn't really lose much, right?
It's like very, very angry, furious,
and look, you know what happens?
It changes the culture of a good church.
It really does.
I mean, even the person running the church,
part of it, because there's this thing inside of us
like that being more bold is more godly or something.
And look, have I not preached in that several times
to try to calm down the situation?
And it causes other people to be more bold
than they oughta be.
And it's like people learn their ways.
Why?
Because when you're around people that do anything wrong,
if you're around people that are covetous,
you'll become covetous.
If you're around people that are prideful,
you'll become prideful.
If you're around people that are envious
or bitter or angry, you will learn their ways.
That's what the Bible says.
That is why church discipline sometimes is necessary
because you know what?
It becomes an infection that's spread.
It's like, man, we gotta get control of this thing.
Okay?
Now turn in your Bible to Proverbs 27.
Proverbs 27.
I want you to realize also that
if your friend's going down a dark road,
the worst thing you could do is to cover it up.
It's the worst thing you could do for them.
For them.
I'm not saying for the church.
For them, that's the worst thing you could do.
I mean, think about if you have a child.
You have a child that's two years old
and he does something wrong or whatever
and then the parents make excuses.
And then he's three years old and the parents make excuses.
He's four years old.
They make excuses year after year.
And what's gonna happen?
A kid's gonna grow up and be a bad kid.
As parents, sometimes you just have to admit,
you know what?
Some things just isn't being done right.
You gotta make some sort of change.
Look, my wife and I, you know, having kids,
sometimes we look at things like, you know,
we gotta make some sort of change
because obviously something's being done wrong.
You can't just basically put on blinders
and pretend like nothing's wrong.
It's just by chance.
They're just always tired, right?
No, maybe you need to make a change, right?
It's the same way if you have a friend,
if they're doing something wrong
and you're covering for that friend,
let me tell you something.
They're gonna just go on a darker and darker road.
It's gonna get worse and worse and worse for them.
That's what's gonna happen.
The best thing they could do
is basically get a wake up call.
You say, what do you do as a friend?
Well, what does the Bible say in Proverbs 27 verse five?
Open rebuke is better than secret love.
Faithful are the wounds of a friend,
but the kisses of an enemy are deceitful.
You know what?
When I talk about people that were good friends of mine
that left church, I'm not just saying
someone who was a member of church.
I'm saying the best man at my wedding.
I'm saying close friends of mine.
And when it comes to someone who is your close friend,
not just a church member,
because look, at a church, there's lots of people here,
you're not best friends with everybody.
Some people, you're polite to them, you like them,
you love to see them at church,
but they're not necessarily gonna be the person
that you hang out with all the time.
But let me say, if there's someone
who is your close, close friend,
not just a normal church member, your close, close friend,
you know what, the best thing you can do
is rebuke them when they're going down a wrong road.
And look, when somebody's gossiping
about other church members,
that's something I need to know about.
They're just criticizing other church members
or being bitter and mad about all these things.
The best thing you could do is rebuke them.
And you know what, if they don't take the rebuke,
then yeah, the best thing you do
is come to me and talk to me about it.
Because maybe you can shake them into reality
before it's too late.
Now, from my experience,
because look, rebuking your friends is not fun.
It's not a fun thing to do.
From my experience, they usually do not take heed to it.
Unfortunately, what I've seen is usually
people don't take heed to it.
It's interesting to me because when I preach sermons,
I preach sermons and I preach hard on various things,
and people that need to make a change in a life,
oftentimes I see them make that change
through the preaching of God's word.
But when you're at the point
where you're talking to your friend
that's already doing things that are wrong and everything,
they're usually backslidden to the point
where they don't wanna listen to anybody.
I've told close friends of mine that they were bitter,
they were mad at the pastor, they were envious,
and you know what, they didn't take heed.
Unfortunately, that's the way it goes sometimes.
But you know, a friend loveth at all times,
and what you're called to do as a friend
is to rebuke your friend if they go down a dark road.
I'm not just talking about they make a minor mistake.
I'm saying when they're making major mistakes,
they're gonna end up out of church,
end up with all kinds of problems.
They need an open rebuke from someone who's a close friend.
And you know what, if they're too late for that,
then the church needs to know about it
because you know what, if they can't fix it, then...
And sometimes people just need a wake-up call
where it's like, hey, if you don't do this,
then such and such will happen.
You know, sometimes that can be the wake-up call, okay?
So what are some things we can learn from this?
As I said, you know what, I'm not trying to reopen wounds
from this sermon and everything like that.
And as I said, you know, I'm not mad
at anybody in this room.
For one, over six months have gone by
and I don't keep anger that long, right?
It's like if I would've been anger,
maybe if I preached this a couple weeks,
but you know, here's the thing,
if you're mad about certain things, you know what,
that's why you don't handle it immediately, right?
You take some time.
I'm honestly not mad at anybody in this room.
I'm glad every single person's here.
I do want us to learn lessons from the past though.
I want us to realize, you know, that when people
are going down a dark road and stuff like that,
you know what, we shouldn't cover up for those people.
You say, why?
Because if you do, your loyalty is your friends
over the church and it can lead to big problems, okay?
Now, starting next week, we're gonna start talking
about envy and then after that, strife and division.
So we're not gonna be talking specifically
about the situation, but just lessons we can learn.
Because as a church, the most important thing
is that we're united as a church,
that we love one another, that we care about one another,
that there's not divisions within the church
that we actually care about one another.
And look, this will help you with your marriage.
This will help you with raising your kids.
This is gonna help you with any problems
you keep coming to in your life.
It's gonna help you with those things, okay?
This is not just about church,
although we are specifically applying it to that.
Let's close in order of prayer.
Dear Heavenly Father, thank you for allowing us
to be here today and just getting to see
what your Bible says about this and help us
to understand church structure and how we operate here
that I'm not the ultimate head of this church,
not even just below the Lord Jesus Christ,
but below Pastor Jimenez and with big decisions,
this is his church and so we need to make sure
we're a good representation of that church, God.
And I ask you to help all of us in this room, God,
to apply your message and your words
and we're filled full of room, full of people
that love you and care about you.
Help us all to grow and learn from maybe past mistakes
we made and things maybe we could do better.
Help us to make this the best church
you could possibly find, God, in Metro Manila.
We pray this in Jesus' name, amen.